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Soymilk Suppression?

Does soymilk have the same tea phytonutrient blocking effects as cow’s milk?

April 16, 2011 |
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Supplementary Info

Sources Cited

Lorenz, M., Jochmann, N., von Krosigk, A., Martus, P., Baumann, G., Stangl, K., et al. (2007). Addition of milk prevents vascular protective effects of tea. European Heart Journal, 28: 219–223.

M. Lorenz, K. Stangl, and V. Stangl. Vascular effects of tea are suppressed by soy milk. Atherosclerosis, 206(1):31-32, 2009.

Acknowledgements

Image thanks to Sarah Gilbert.

Transcript

In 2007 we learned that milk blocks the absorption of the phytonutrients in chocolate. In 2008 we learned that milk may completly block the beneficial effects of the phytonutrients in tea. Might as well just be drinking water. In 2009, soy milk was tested.
The reason cow milk blocks the benefits of tea is because the milk protein casein binds up the phytonutrients in tea. Since soy milk doesn’t have casein, though, one would assume that adding soy milk to tea is fine, but you never know until you run the experiment.
What do you think? Soy milk blocks the benefits of tea: fact or fiction? Let’s look at the data: This is measuring the beneficial effects on arterial cells in a petri dish. Here’s the control, plain water. Then comes, the plain black tea, no creamer, and you can see the spike in beneficial effects that appear completely blocked by milk. Then they tried three types of soymilk: sweetened, calcium-enriched, and unsweetened. All of which, had the same effect as milk! Fact, vascular effects of tea are suppressed by soy milk.
Now this was in vitro, in a petri dish. We don’t know if this translates into actual people, but until we do know more I encourage folks to drink their tea straight. And, as I’ve noted in previous volumes, green tea is healthier than black.

To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring watch the above video. This is just an approximation of the audio contributed by veganmontreal.

To help out on the site please email volunteer@nutritionfacts.org

Dr. Michael Greger

Doctor's Note

Please feel free to post any ask-the-doctor type questions here in the comments section and I’d be happy to try to answer them. Also, there are 1,449 other subjects covered in the rest of my videos--please feel free to explore them as well!

  • JJ

    As posted on other pages, I’ve seen all these videos. I’m trying to synthesize all the information in my head into a coherent picture on how to eat. Here’s the problem:

    This video along with some others seems to say that eating any kind of protein, not just animal protein, blocks absorption of the wonderful nutrients from plants like cocoa, berries and *green tea*.

    There is also a video that says that our bodies will not absorb the good nutrients from greens (and my understanding is that green tea is like eating greens) unless we have some fat with the meal.

    In this video, you recommend using whole foods with fats (such as nuts) instead of fat-laden dressing in order to get the nutrients from greens into our bodies.

    But isn’t one of the things notable about nuts is that they have protein? And wouldn’t the protein block the absorption of the nutrients in greens? Do we really know the effects of nuts on absorption of nutrients in greens? And how much fat does one need to get the ideal absorption?

    It’s an honest question because eating greens is not easy for me. So, when I do it, I want to get the maximum impact. I’m working hard, with some minor successes, to build up a liking for kale. One recipe that I do like, probably because the sauce drowns out the kale, is a recipe that includes: kale, onion, and a yummy “creamy” dressing that is really a cashew base.

    So, I figure the cashews are giving me some fat in which to absorb the kale nutrients. But how much fat/cashews do I need per X amount of kale? And is it possible that the protein in the cashews turns around and simply blocks the nutrient absorption?

    Hope this gives you an idea of where my confusion is. I’m sure I’m making this more complicated than it needs to be. Any clarification you can provide would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    - JJ

    • http://nutritionfacts.org/members/mgreger/ Michael Greger M.D.

      JJ, only dairy appears to have the ability to block the phytonutrient benefits of cocoa and berries (Nutrient Blocking Effects of Dairy). So it’s not all protein by any stretch (in fact it may not even be the dairy protein–we don’t know what’s in dairy that does that). So no need to worry about eating protein with your greens. And in terms of the carotenoid absorption (Forgo Fat-Free Dressings?) just a few cashews is all you need, especially if you release all their fat by blending them up. I’m sorry you got confused and I hope this helps clear things up!

      • JJ

        Dr Greger: Yes, your explanation helps a lot.

        My confusion is that I’m familiar with the concepts of things like “fat”, “protein” and “carbohydrate”. I do not have an understanding of what phytonutrient is. Or carotenoid. So, when I hear those words, I translate them into my head as “other stuff good for you”. Looks like I was getting confused because I was equating phytonutrient and carotnenoid. You definitely helped clarify!

        I clearly need to up my education level on for nutrition information so that I can process your videos better.

        Thanks again!!!

    • http://nutritionfacts.org/members/mlbinsf/ mlbinsf

      I drink about 1 cup of milk a day with my two coffees in the morning. I’m drinking the milk then I usually eat my breakfast about 10 min after drinking the coffee with milk, my breakfast is always oatmeal with blueberries and no milk. My question is how long between drinking the milk and eating the blueberries does the milk effect the nutrients in the blueberries. I don’t want to lose the nutrition of the blueberries but I really cant drink coffee without milk, so should I wait longer than 10 minutes between drinking milk and eating berries? I could just not eat berries with breakfast and maybe eat them later in the day but I really enjoy them in my oatmeal.

  • JJ

    I also want to point out that that kale dish that I like also has a can of garbanzo beans – more protein.

    One of the reasons I like that dish is that it seems to have it all: healthy protein, high-quality calcium-rich greens and good taste! But am I getting any good out of it?

    • http://nutritionfacts.org/members/mgreger/ Michael Greger M.D.

      The kale and cashews sounds yummy–you should post the recipe!

      • JJ

        Sure! I got the original recipe from:
        http://blog.fatfreevegan.com/2011/05/cosmic-cashew-kale-and-chickpeas-with-confetti-quinoa.html

        She has LOTS of really good “fat-free” (I think she means free of added processed fats) vegan recipes. I have modified her recipe to fit my tastes. For example, I omit the hot sauce, and I add mushrooms. I also changed up the process so that I can use the microwave instead of the stove top.

        The recipe is yummy. I highly recommend it to people who are trying to develop a taste for kale. While the author recommends putting it on quinoa (which would be very good), I think it works just great as a dish by itself.

    • http://nutritionfacts.org/members/toxins/ Toxins

      All plants have complete proteins..no need to compliment for the 8 essential amino acids.

  • http://nutritionfacts.org/members/ChrisGrant/ Chris Grant

    I was thinking about this article recently, Does any non-daiy beverage have this effect? Has any more information been done to determine if it’s the protein, the fat, or some other compound that impedes the phytonutrient absorption?

    • http://nutritionfacts.org/members/toxins/ Toxins

      Hello Chris!

      To quote Dr. Greger above, “only dairy appears to have the ability to block the phytonutrient benefits of cocoa and berries http://nutritionfacts.org/videos/nutrient-blocking-effects-of-dairy/ . So it’s not all protein by any stretch (in fact it may not even be the dairy protein–we don’t know what’s in dairy that does that). So no need to worry about eating protein with your greens.” Almond milk would be a safe non dairy substitute for tea, or with eating another nutrient dense meal. For right now the jury is out regarding what exactly blocks the nutrients.

  • http://nutritionfacts.org/members/vallis/ Vallis

    Who does the voice on the videos? The guy cracks me up and does an amazing job of keeping me listening and engaged.

    SOY. I heard too much soy is not good for men because of the supposed estrogen in it. I heard that allot of men started to grow breasts in the 90′s who were drinking tons of soy. Is there any science supporting this? It completely put me off soy products when I heard/read this.

    I am not sure if this was the right video to post this question. But there it is.

  • http://nutritionfacts.org/members/TomZdrojewski/ Tom Zdrojewski

    I know you said it’s best to drink it straight, but is there any data yet about coconut milk-based creamer or other non-dairy non-soy creamers?

    • http://nutritionfacts.org/members/toxins/ Toxins

      Tom, we should do our best to stay away from coconut products in general. Its a very high saturated fat food.
      http://nutritionfacts.org/videos/is-coconut-milk-good-for-you/

      • http://nutritionfacts.org/members/TomZdrojewski/ Tom Zdrojewski

        That is disappointing. Thank you.

        • http://nutritionfacts.org/members/toxins/ Toxins

          Sorry! Coconut water is fine though. Perhaps you can add coconut water to your soymilk?

          • http://nutritionfacts.org/members/TomZdrojewski/ Tom Zdrojewski

            I do like coconut water. But with creamer it’s mostly about the texture for me. Same thing with coffee. I was looking to replace dairy-based creamer. Soy milk, almond milk, creamers based on those, etc just don’t add the right texture. I imagine coconut water wouldn’t either.

          • http://nutritionfacts.org/members/TomZdrojewski/ Tom Zdrojewski

            I do like coconut water. But with creamer it’s mostly about the texture for me. Same thing with coffee. I was looking to replace dairy-based creamer. Soy milk, almond milk, creamers based on those, etc just don’t add the right texture. I imagine coconut water wouldn’t either. Thank you for the suggestion, though.

        • http://nutritionfacts.org/members/toxins/ Toxins

          Well what about this coconut “flavored” creamer. Based from rice milk and soy milk and “natural” flavors.
          http://www.naturesflavors.com/index.php/flavored-coffee-beans-organic-flavored-coffee-beans/organic-non-dairy-coffee-creamers-powder/organic-coconut-non-dairy-coffee-creamer-low-fat-kosher-vegan-gluten-free.html

          I approve of the ingredients (from face value) but id just need a confirmation from the nutrition label.

  • http://nutritionfacts.org/members/nbmaggie/ NBMaggie

    Re: More Texture to Faux Creamer/Coffee: I’ve been making my own soymilk for years now and a post by Bryanna Clark Grogan at http://veganfeastkitchen.blogspot.ca prompted me to add 1/4 cup old-fashioned large flake oats to my basic soymilk recipe. The results were delicious in my morning soy latte – very creamy. I’m not sure how you’d get this effect with commercially prepared soymilk. Mind you, none of this addresses the issue raised by Dr. Greger about soy and its effects.

  • Harel B

    I sometimes use ‘micro’ amounts of soymilk, as in, less than 1oz in a cup that holds 20 ounces of tea

    So….to be most useful, research should show us not one bar for “adding soymilk” but many depending on how much, proportionately.

    If 20oz tea plus 1oz soymilk causes as much “suppression” as a combination of  15oz tea plus 6 oz soymilk, then I’d stop using it entirely…but if it’s a very graduated effect, then those of us who enjoy such small amounts (just enough to just barely ‘cloud’ the drink a tiny bit, would maybe want to continue

    • gary bocan

      I agree, that’s what i do too. I try to drink tea without anything, but sometimes it’s just too bitter and i need to add a little almond/soy milk. I just add the smallest amount necessary to cover up some of the bitterness.

  • Stephen Mayer

    What about almond milk?

    • Toxins

       Almond milk should not be assumed to have the same affect as soy milk. These foods have very different phytonutrients and protein ratios.

  • gary yrag

    The confusion is something i at one time shared with “JJ,” until i did some academic research on tea. The main chemicals in tea that we do *not* want blocked is a group called “catechins” (there are several in tea, eg, EGCG & EGC). Research was done to compare green tea catechin absorption on an empty stomach versus with food. The human subjects were given either some carbs, in the form of bread of muffins, to accompany their tea, or just drank the tea on an empty stomach (in the morning after waking). The researchers found that the catechin absorption into the subjects’ blood stream was much higher when tea was taken on an empty stomach. Another study also found that tea catechin absorption is further enhanced when ingested with something acidic, like lemon juice. (I experienced nausea when i tried to drink green tea on an empty stomach, and especially with lemons. However i experience considerably less nausea when i use white tea leaves instead).This however contrasts with the carotenoid antioxidants found in high levels of many colored and green leafy vegetables. These carotenoids are fat soluble and require some fats to go with the veggies, as i learned from Dr Greger’s video also. 

    JJ, if you happen to see this post and would like links to the 2 research articles on tea, i would be happy to provide them to you.

    • gary bocan

      So, long story short: try to drink tea on an empty stomach. It seems that any kind of food, not just tea, will affect catechin absorption. The exception is acidic foods, eg, lemons. Acidity actually seems to help.

  • Sharon McRae

    Does adding nut/seed milk, like hemp/almond, also interfere with absorption of antioxidants, particularly in green tea?  

    • Toxins

      No, it appears that soymilk and dairy are the only perpetrators that we know of.

      • Debraapples

        Thanks for this answer. How do we know this? Have more studies been done? Would love to know.

        • Toxins

          The protein profile may be at play here, and as soy has a very similar protein profile to that of animal products, including milk, we can assume that almond milk and others would not have the same effect. Of course this is speculation.

  • Brentandliza

    So if I am putting soy milk in my spinach/blackberry smoothie I’m not getting the phytonutrients?  So sad!  I like almond and rice milk but my kids like soy, so that’s what I’ve been using…

  • tel-nir

    If I put soy milk in a fruit shake containing amla powder, will it negate the effect of the antioxidants or any other good value of it?
    If it does, how much time do I need to wait between soy milk intakes before I drink the shake (without soy milk)
    Thanks!

  • My975

    Hello Dr. Greger,

    Would you please present information or effects with carrageenan found in soymilk and alternative dairy products? I am reading that it is harmful and should be avoided. Thank you!!

  • Sky

    Would soy milk also negate positive effects of other foods/drinks, like muesli, porridge, smoothies etc.?

  • Stefanie

    Is there any information out there on whether other milk substitutes such as rice-, hazelnut- or almond milk have the same effects as cows milk and soy milk?
    I don’t actually put any milk in my tea anyways. What I would just like to have is a bowl of oatmeal with some sort of milk and a cup of green tea for breakfast. Surely, there must be some way to do that without losing the tea’s benefits?

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