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The Effect of Animal Protein on the Kidneys

Between 1990 and 2010, some of our leading causes of death and disability remained the same. Heart disease was the leading cause of loss of life and health then and remains the leading cause today. Some things got better, like HIV/AIDS, but others got worse, like chronic kidney disease. We saw a doubling in the tens of thousands of deaths and the hundreds of thousands of patients whose kidneys failed completely, requiring kidney transplants or lifelong dialysis.

About one in eight of us now has chronic kidney disease—and most don’t even know it: About three-quarters of the millions of people affected are unaware that their kidneys are starting to fail. This is “particularly worrisome given that early identification provides an opportunity to slow the progression and alter the course of disease.” So, what can we do about it?

In my video Which Type of Protein Is Better for Our Kidneys?, I discuss how the Western-style diet is a major risk factor for impaired kidney function and chronic kidney disease. Also known as “the meat-sweet diet or standard American diet,” it causes an impairment of kidney blood flow, inflammation, subsequent leakage of protein in the urine, and a rapid decrease in kidney function. Table sugar and high-fructose corn syrup are associated with increased blood pressure and uric acid levels, both of which can damage the kidney. The saturated fat, trans fat, and cholesterol found in animal fat and junk food negatively impact kidney function, as well.

The consumption of animal fat can actually alter the structure of the kidney, and animal protein can deliver an acid load to the kidneys, increase ammonia production, and damage the sensitive kidney cells. This is why restricting protein intake is recommended for preventing kidney function decline—though it may be animal protein in particular that may need restricting, not just protein in general. So, the source of the protein, plant versus animal, may be more important than the amount regarding adverse health consequences.

Animal protein intake profoundly affects normal human kidney function, inducing what’s called hyperfiltration, which increases the workload of the kidney. This may help explain why our kidneys fail so often. “Unlimited intake of protein-rich foods, now generally regarded as ‘normal,’ may be responsible for dramatic differences in renal function between modern human beings and their remote predecessors who hunted and scavenged for meat.” Indeed, our kidney reserves are continuously called upon by our sustained, rather than intermittent, excesses of protein. This causes a kind of unrelenting stress on our kidneys that can predispose even healthy people to progressive kidney scarring and deterioration of kidney function. It’s as if we’re always revving our engine into the red. Conversely, intake of an equal quantity of protein from plants doesn’t appear to have the same effects.

We saw in a study that eating meat increases the workload on the kidneys within hours of consumption, but, apparently, processing plant protein is a cinch. That particular study was done with beef, but any animal protein will do. If you eat a meal of tuna fish, pressure on the kidneys goes up within just hours of consumption. Then the researchers switched it up and found that if instead of having a tuna salad sandwich, you have a tofu salad sandwich (with the same amount of protein): no adverse effect.

The same thing happens with eggs and dairy protein—both in people with normal kidneys and people with diseased kidneys.

Short-term studies have indicated that “substituting soy protein for animal protein is associated with less hyperfiltration and [protein leakage]…therefore slowing deterioration of renal function.” However, the long-term effect had not been adequately studied, until 2014. A six-month double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial compared the effects of soy and dairy protein on renal function and determined that “the consumption of whole soy tended to preserve renal function compared with milk placebo in individual with lowered renal function.” Similar results were reported in diabetics. Even just giving isolated soy protein appeared to make things better, compared to dairy protein which made things worse.

Once one’s kidneys have deteriorated to the point that they’re actively losing protein in the urine, a plant-based diet may help come to the rescue. Protein leakage on a standard low-sodium diet was compared to a special supplemented vegan diet. The researchers showed through diet alone, kidney dysfunction could be switched on and off like a light switch depending on what was going into their mouth. See the extraordinary graph in my video.

What is going on? Why does animal protein cause that overload reaction, but plant protein doesn’t? The renal reaction appears to be an inflammatory response triggered by the animal protein. We know this because administration of a powerful anti-inflammatory drug abolished the hyperfiltration,  protein leakage response to meat ingestion. Kidney stress has been shown to escalate in response to a meat meal, but that stress level remains low during the meal when supplemented with an anti-inflammatory drug. This confirms the role of inflammation in the impact of animal protein on our kidneys.


This is part of a new, extended series of videos on kidney health, which includes:

I’ve compared plant and animal protein in a variety of ways. See, for example,

Methionine Restriction as a Life Extension Strategy, Prostate Cancer Survival: The A/V Ratio, and Caloric Restriction vs. Animal Protein Restriction.

Perhaps the most dramatic demonstration was the study I featured in my 2015 annual presentation, Food as Medicine: Preventing and Treating the Most Dreaded Diseases with Diet.  

In health,

Michael Greger, M.D.

PS: If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my free videos here and watch my live, year-in-review presentations:

Discuss

Michael Greger M.D., FACLM

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM, is a physician, New York Times bestselling author, and internationally recognized professional speaker on a number of important public health issues. Dr. Greger has lectured at the Conference on World Affairs, the National Institutes of Health, and the International Bird Flu Summit, testified before Congress, appeared on The Dr. Oz Show and The Colbert Report, and was invited as an expert witness in defense of Oprah Winfrey at the infamous "meat defamation" trial.


203 responses to “The Effect of Animal Protein on the Kidneys

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  1. Dear Dr. Greger and others at nutritionfacts.org
    For some time I have considered contacting you again. (I did once before regarding a speaking event near me. Thank you for your response.)
    I am a kidney transplant recipient of now 18 years. Since probably Nov. of 2011 after seeing forks over knives the documentary, I have been trying to eat a whole foods plant based diet, but I am far from perfect at it. (I have polycyctic kidney disease, as do other family members.)
    I have seen great benefits to this way of eating.
    My question regards a diet for those on dialysis. I have such a poor memory of my dialysis years. I think it was < ~ 5 years of peritoneal dialysis. Dialysis is a pathetic substitute for the exquisite finesse of real kidney function. Most health is a balancing act, for dialysis, it is a balancing act while juggling to manage out of control blood levels of what kidneys manage so well. That may be why nephrologists advise more meat in the dialysis patient diet. Plants are so full of pesky nutrients.
    Has anyone tried to tweek, a WFPB diet for dialysis patients? (Your blog mentioned a special supplemented vegan diet). These patients still have bones and cardiovascular systems etc. at risk. If there is guidance (from you noble individuals and groups advocating WFPB) please mention is a video or blog. I also enjoy the pcrm.org and nutritionstudies.org Either of them are also welcome to address this question of WFPB diet for dialysis patients.
    I can’t thank you enough for your service to mankind. Thank you Kathy Christensen




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        1. I would like to know why you push s o much soy? We all (oh, well, most) know that soy is genetically modified =full of pesticides that destroy our gut, also it’s a hormone disruptor , causes hypothyroidism, male feminization, problems in female hormones, cancer etc.
          There’s an old book called “The Whole Soy Story: The Dark Side of America’s Favorite Health Food” A groundbreaking expose that tells the truth about soy that scientists know but that the soy industry has tried to suppress. Soy is not a health food, does not prevent disease and has not even been proven safe. Epidemiological, clinical and laboratory studies link soy to malnutrition, digestive problems, thyroid dysfunction, cognitive decline, reproductive disorders, even heart disease and cancer. Also vegetable proteins are “recognized” by the body as carbohydrates, because when eaten there’s a peak of insulin. So what to eat to get the protein we need?




          2
          1. Sorry Paz but any huckster or crackpot can write a book or operate a website or upload a video to YouTube. We shouldn’t trust their highly sensational claims without rigorous fact checking.

            I am not aware that the scientific literature supports any of these claims, no matter what people making money selling books may write.

            Try looking at these videos if you don’t want to delve into the scientific literature yourself
            https://nutritionfacts.org/?fwp_search=soy&fwp_content_type=video




            7
            1. If you aren’t aware, it doesn’t make a scientific evidence from your lack of knowledge in that respect. And it’s not a video in you tube. It has a lot of studies from several scientists behind it. But of course you and all the rest have the freedom to eat whatever you want to your hearts content, either is healthy or not. I am a long time student and researcher in health and i am always reading new stuff, and old also, but not from the paid universities that get money from the Soy, milk, meat,GMOs, etc industries, but from free studies.
              Peace and cheers!




              2
          2. and besides the “highly” recommended soy full of lectins, there’s lectin in many vegetables, legumes, etc
            What is Lectin? This is a highly toxic, plant-based protein.
            What foods have lectins?
            Beans are among the main sources of lectins. Soy, kidney, navy, pinto, lima, fava, wax, castor, jack, string and field beans all contain lectins. Sweet peas, green peas, cow peas and horse grams are other sources of these proteins, as are lentil, mung bean or soybean sprouts. Fully cook your beans before eating them. Cooking and digestion destroy some, but not all, lectins.
            For example, the lectins in navy beans aren’t fully destroyed during digestion.

            Barley, corn, rice and wheat, especially wheat germ, also contain lectins, as do cereals and other baked goods made with these grains. Wheat germ contains one of the types of lectin that isn’t destroyed during digestion.
            Tomatoes contain lectin, and so do potatoes, sweet potatoes, zucchini, carrots, rhubarb, beets, mushrooms, asparagus, turnips, cucumbers, pumpkin, sweet peppers and radishes. Citrus fruits, such as oranges, lemons and grapefruit, provide lectin. So do berries, including blackberries, raspberries and strawberries.
            Other fruit sources of lectin include pomegranate, grapes, cherries, quinces, apples, watermelon, banana, papaya, plums and currants.

            Other Foods

            Nuts and seeds, even those that have been dry roasted. Walnuts, hazelnuts, peanuts, sunflower seeds, sesame seeds and coconut all contain lectins.

            Chocolate, coffee and some spices, including caraway, nutmeg, peppermint, marjoram and garlic, are also sources of lectins.
            When lectins affect the gut wall, it may also cause a broader immune system response as the body’s defenses move in to attack the invaders.
            Grain, cereal, dairy, and legume (especially peanut and soybean) lectins are most commonly associated with reports of digestive complaints. Legumes and seafood are the most abundant sources of lectins in most diets.

            Symptoms can include skin rashes, joint pain, and general inflammation. Other chronic disorders may be correlated with leaky gut — for example, researchers have even noted that children with autism have very high rates of leaky gut and similar inflammatory GI tract diseases.




            1
          3. To add to TG’s excellent comment
            .We all (oh, well, most) know that soy is genetically modified =full of pesticides that destroy our gut, a

            Soy for animal consumption is almost always genetically modified. For human consumption often probably by majority now non GMO is the available option. It is a greenish sticker usually on the labeling.

            That you do not know that or are for some reason not stating that raises some questions.




            5
        2. Thanks for the links. Unfortunately, I am being urged to enter dialysis for end stage renal failure although I have been eating whole food, plant based diet for 10 years. It may have well slowed progression but not stopped it. Does Dr G or others have any further advice. I take a few herbs, but so many fake cures of the Web. Not sure if dialysis is worth it at this point. Hard enough to manage type 1 Diabetes. thank you.




          2
          1. You could view these and perhaps ask Dr McDougall if he has any views on end stage renal disease and diet. You could also possibly consider whether a lower phosphorous WFPB diet is an option.

            https://nutritionfacts.org/video/treating-kidney-failure-through-diet/
            https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/jul/kidney.htm
            https://www.renalandurologynews.com/nutrition/plant-based-diets-may-need-to-be-reconsidered/article/207179/

            You my also want to request a free consultation the the True North heHlth Centre
            http://www.healthpromoting.com/free-consultation




            3
            1. Thanks for the response. I did write Dr McDougall, but he send a link to his prior posts that I’ve seen for years. And True North said that they didn’t want to see me, didn’t think they could help.




              1
              1. Can I ask if you are walking through with a nutritionist?

                I say that, because I am learning that whole food plant based has a lot of variety of meanings to people. Are you sincerely doing low fat enough that you know that you are one of the ones whose beta cells aren’t functioning? Have you tried different variations like Barnard and Furhman, etc. They might help you on their sites.

                Also I am wondering if you have tried any of the gadgets? PEMF, Cold Laser, Micropulse ICES of other things?

                If I were up to the point of needing a transplant, I would be having conversations with Wake Forest Institute anout their 3D laser printers.




                1
              2. I am trying to do this process on my phone and I am not sure it is posting.

                My heart goes out to you.

                I know that Type1 Diabetes is harder.

                If I were you I would be talking with the various doctors who have reversed Tyoe 1 Diabetes to see if they have any extra suggestions.

                Dr Cousens I think is one who talked about reversing Type 1.

                I will say a prayer for you, because I know that it is hard.




                1
                1. Thanks for your reply. Dr Cousens is certainly interesting, although I believe his success is in treating type 2 Diabetes (as are many). Also, I believe the tree of Life restaurant in Patagonia is closed (I actually live about 75 miles away. Yes I am on a low-fat, whole food. plant based diet. There is research going on about bio-artificial kidney, printing blood vessels for transplants, etc. (see KidneyBuzz.org) , but everything is several years away from clinical trials. Trump administration’s position of stem cell and genetic research, and funding for NIH certainly doesn’t help.

                  Like many of us, I hate to believe that there is anything that can’t be cured, prevented with a WFPB diet, but that is probably denial on my part. I believe Jeff Novick commented once on the fact that some disease processes will still exist even with a perfect diet. But I’m still looking to do what I can.




                  2
                  1. Wake Forest is using the patients own cells and growing them and then using the 3D printer to print a functional kidney in 7 hours and then they put it in a room the same environment as the human body, then, they make sure it passes urine.

                    They said it is about a six week process.

                    I know it isn’t available yet, but they might have a transplant list somewhere. Plus, they are doing tons of research on lots of things, like washing the cells off discarded organs and putting the patients own cells in it after.

                    The body doesn’t reject the organs, because it is the patients own cells.

                    Harvard is one of the places working on a type of stem cell, but I was under the impression that there are a few locations in the US, which are already doing some type of stem cell therapy for kidneys.

                    I was thinking some stem cell therapies were already available in Chicago and California. I read that on web-sites.

                    Have you checked into it?

                    I know it would be expensive.




                    1
                  2. I looked up the cost of stem cell therapy and it ran a whole range from $1500 for a knee to $13,000. With lot of the answers in the $3000 to $5000 range.

                    Not sure how it works, but I probably will be researching it for my cousin.

                    I am pondering all of this for him.

                    There are people who say they improved kidney function after PEMF and some from Cold Laser.

                    I have used MicroPulse ICES on my ankle and it decreased inflammation and pain after one session and increased circulation. My cousin will be trying that on his feet. Not sure if he will try it on his kidneys, but one of his meds destroyed his legs, and Diabetes already caused feet problems, so he wants the circulation. There is a static magnet belt, which claims to improve the numbers and they have before and after labs from some people, but only a few. They say that they are doing research and want people’s before and after labs, but I chose the MicroPulse device, because I needed it for my ankle.

                    Acupuncture is another thing, which has been studied with some results.

                    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28422526

                    Also Infrared

                    “Kidney failure is the third leading cause of death. These are old folks who are dying from kidney failure. You can’t really give them transplants because they’re elderly. You put a near-infrared LED array where their kidneys are and it seems to work like a dream. [But] it’s hardly been studied at all,” photodynamic therapy researcher Michael Hamblin, Ph.D. researcher and associate professor of dermatology at Harvard Medical School. He’s also a principal investigator at The Wellman Center for Photomedicine at Massachusetts General Hospital, and a member of the Harvard-MIT Division of Health Sciences and Technology.

                    I got a cheap infrared bulb on-line and that helped wonderfully for a few things years ago. I was seriously pleased. I have also used Cold Laser for my dog and had him stop being in pain. There was a big difference.

                    I say it, mostly, there are a lot of things, which might work. The infrared, you can get seriously cheap. They sell $7 heat Infrared bulbs on Amazon and you just need an appropriate wattage lamp. They also sell LED Infrared set ups.

                    I had the standard heat lamp bulb. The LED might be easier to use, but the heat felt good the Winter I bought it.

                    I know someone who used cold laser and had really amazing results on lots of things. There is a Dr. Burke or something like that on YouTube with a slide show. He didn’t have kidney patients, but he had gangrene reversing from black feet to feet starting to get color back. Circulation alone helps a lot of things.




                    0
                  3. Pretty sure that Dr Cousens said that twenty percent of His Type 1 Diabetics were able to get off meds. He said it turned out their Beta Cells still functioned.

                    I watched his documentary and his TED Talk. I think the TED Talk is where he said it.




                    0
          2. Can I ask if you are walking through with a nutritionist?

            I say that, because I am learning that whole food plant based has a lot of variety of meanings to people. Are you sincerely doing low fat enough that you know that you are one of the ones whose beta cells aren’t functioning? Have you tried different variations like Barnard and Furhman, etc.

            Also I am wondering if you have tried any of the gadgets? PEMF, Cold Laser, Micropulse ICES of other things?

            If I were up to the point of needing a transplant, I would be having conversations with Wake Forest Institute anout their 3D laser printers.




            0
    1. not necessarily disputing this, but this latest study from the University of Copenhagen suggests milk proteins are not a contributing factor:

      ‘Chronic kidney disease (CKD) has a prevalence of approximately 13% and is most frequently caused by diabetes and hypertension. In population studies, CKD etiology is often uncertain. Some experimental and observational human studies have suggested that high-protein intake may increase CKD progression and even cause CKD in healthy people. The protein source may be important. Daily red meat consumption over years may increase CKD risk, whereas white meat and dairy proteins appear to have no such effect, and fruit and vegetable proteins may be renal protective’

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28637384




      0
      1. OK this is what I get when I quary the study..
        “Long-Term Effects of High-Protein Diets on Renal Function …
        http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-nutr-071714-034426

        short-term (<6 months) effect of high-protein diet on renal function In rats, intrauterine growth restriction was induced with an isocaloric low-protein diet. The newborn rats were given 12 weeks of a HP diet, which worsened hypertension and proteinuria as compared with a standard-protein diet ."

        Rats???? Are you kidding me?




        2
        1. And this is the rest of the abstract…
          Few randomized trials exist with an observation time greater than 6 months, and most of these were conducted in patients with preexisting diseases that dispose to CKD. Results conflict and do not allow any conclusion about kidney-damaging effects of long-term, high-protein intake. Until additional data become available, present knowledge seems to substantiate a concern. Screening for CKD should be considered before and during long-term, high-protein intake.”




          1
          1. WE must simply have the study to examine it to determine validity. No study is presented in the link only the abstract. The abstract is not sufficient enough to draw conclusions from and is contradictory.




            1
      2. Pete, just an observation from working with people, whey protein seems to cause many to have a greater urinary protein spill than other foods.




        3
      3. Yes, that is interesting. You are still defending dairy I see.

        However, there is always a question about the search criteria used to identify the evidence that is considered in such reviews and about the measures used to assess kidney function.

        Perhaps, on the latter point, it is a bit like inflammation – depending on the test/marker used, a food can appear either inflammatory or non-inflammatory.

        As Dr Greger’s blog indicates, there is at least one study that demonstrates that dairy protein (casein) produces worse outcomes than soy protein.
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15284369

        In any case I am always cautious about dairy studies coming out of the University of Copenhagen. Just like I am about dairy studies coming out of McMaster University in Canada. The former has strong links to the Danish dairy industry and the latter to the Canadian dairy industry. Just Google “university of copenhagen dairy” for example.

        Consequently, I’d still consider caution would argue against consuming substantial amounts of dairy protein.




        6
      4. If I remember me right – the main dates about the worse effect of animal protein for people in the China Study are collected at casein, the protein from milk… why are there still any discussions about dairy? Milk is a good food for calves, not less – not more, end of any discussion.

        Beside – if I would have any known kidney problems, the important words of this “abstract” from this study would be: …and fruit and vegetable proteins may be renal protective’

        Why should a patient be a guinea pig by the attempt to find out if dairy and/or white meat would be for him/her personal be good or bad – if he/she has already a save option? ;-)




        3
          1. Buster

            There are also many downsides eg

            “When dairy fat was replaced with the same number of calories from vegetable fat or polyunsaturated fat, the risk of cardiovascular disease dropped by 10% and 24%, respectively. Furthermore, replacing the same number of calories from dairy fat with healthful carbohydrates from whole grains was associated with a 28% lower risk of cardiovascular disease.”

            https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2016/10/25/dairy-fat-cardiovascular-disease-risk/




            3
  2. This speaks directly to my personal conclusion..Humans were not the great hunters consumers of meat that some claim our anthropological history attests.

    We are simply not well suited to other than occasional use of meat in diet. Cholesterol, kidney function hem iron…..all speak of a inability to assimilate meat products eaten with frequency.

    Basically in excess of 90 percent of our evolutionary history a time before the introduction of most hunting tools we could not have eaten meat with such frequency and amount as our bodies were simply not suited to hunting. With tool use came hunting probably…but are we in that smaller time frame in comparison able to benefit from it…seems not.

    The potential harm equal the benefit if not exceeds the benefit by times over as I read it.
    Probably we were somewhat like chimps as well. When starving they do form hunting packs and eat other monkeys. But it never is a preferential act. It is only when other things are not possible. With chimps it is a month or two per year and also supplemented with other foods.

    . But now every day at every meal…of course one in eight has kidney problems. And heart disease and many of the diseases present in American society.




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    1. As a aside I have noticed quite often vegans(I am one) will throw the problems with animal protein over onto protein in general. Which is certainly not exhibited here in this study.
      Animal protein is the problem chearly not plant protein..




      10
      1. Tool use in a evolutionary considered manner was only in the tail end of our history. Traps are tools.
        Musculature teeth digestive tract lack of strength all these speak of us not being hunters. Put any similar sized carnivore in the same cage with us and see who comes out alive…it will not be us.
        We suck as predators.




        12
        1. He Ron, there is on thought to be considered if the discussion comes to hunting. Here in old Germany (for example) the winter time can be long and strong and in the history there has been not a world trade for fruits and vegetables ;-) Therefor people had to think about new ways to survive at this hard time. They started hunting with weapons and traps. So, to eat meat instead nothing was a good idea. BUT there has been not always lucky times on hunting, so starving for a couple of days has been normal – in this time the body has an rest. Have you ever thought about the sense of fasting time, what is a habit of christians? Why in February? cold it be that the church have made a goodness from a bad situation – to give the people more hope, to hold back people from to be to upset about starving? Because now, the starve to honor the Lord? (only a thought from a not christian)
          Also, the people at this time had no cars, no warm houses, warm showers, they worked harder by muscles – not finger muscles to print some words at a computer. :-)
          Conclusion: Today there is no need to eat animal products anymore, because the better food is always, at any time, available. ;-)




          3
          1. All rue Hell. And the catholics had meat free Fridays and Saturdays and I think Wednesdays before that and all lent a 30 day period was meat free.

            Hunting and fishing trapping were certainly part of our anthropological heritage. However in evolutionary terms our bodies came from earlier times in the vast majority. We evolved largly without tools.
            Chimps eat meat when basically they are starving. I suspect humans may do the same as a necessity not a preference.
            Sp I agree




            0
        2. To expound a bit…our general specie existence occurred around 7 million years ago. Our identification as a separate specie hominoid occurred 2 million or so years ago. Our first use of tools occurred probably around 500,000 years ago.

          Trapping I can find no evidence it occurred earlier than 100.000 years ago.

          I would suppose our first tools to hunt were really of the service for protective means. If not tool creation would coincide with trap use. It does not appear that is the case. Surely the ability to make a tool to protect oneself with would require about the same congnitive ability to make a simple trap.

          So in any event most of our evolution occurred with a body which was little suited to hunt, a human type body of weak muscles and no teeth nor other means of forceful internal weaponry.




          0
    2. The whole business of the most natural (sic) diet for human beings who are capable of making moral choices about what they consume and how they treat the planet, is a crock of ….., isn’t it, Ron?

      Why the paleofreaks want to think themselves into an animal mentality when we should all be seeking to nurture what sets us apart from animals and uniquely able to reflect upon the consequences of our actions, defeats me. We alone are capable of managing our environment and our appetites for a greater good. So the most natural (sic) diet for human beings is one that takes that element of our make up on board.

      I am not that bothered about what diet yields the greatest number of years. No one who runs up against the reality of the slow dwindling of so many of our elders would seriously hold that out as the grail.

      A better question is what diet yields the best quality of life both for the individual and all life forms on the planet for whatever number of years he/she happens to be around.




      13
      1. Yes those approximate my thought almost exactly.
        I think we almost all dislike the killing of other things Of course there are those with psychotic behaviors amongst us but normal humans decidedly do not like to kill.
        This is why most native cultures have ceremonies tied to the hunting of animals. To thank them for their kindness in giving up their bodies for us. India it also has this same approximation in common forms of Hindu.ideology.

        But to my opinion that is a tell. It shows our normal behavior. Our likes and dislikes predict generally what we are naturally.
        We draw our heritage from Europe. In Europe the first real inquisition was not against jews or this or tha but against the cathers who were vegan with the exception of fish.
        WE dislike to kill but when those amongst us rise up in a group and say we will not do such a thing then there is in many forms usually hell to pay.

        Quite unfortunate this thing of human.
        I am thinking now the real first necessity for tools to kill animals was indeed not to kill to eat the meat but to kill to protect our insignificant bodies and our childrens from those more adept at killing.
        WE have been separate on our evolutionary path for about 7 million years. WE have been recognizable as human probably for around 2 million years.
        We have many tools to kill early on. Trapping to kill animals with certainity and intention seems to occur at a much later date. Why not existent at the same time?. Tools and trapping.. I do believe this thing at first of tool was to protect. . .

        Yes quality of life is the thing. I have been taught karma. But if it be karma or not to help more than hurt is humans aim about always. To deny that cannot do any other than to erode our quality of life. We work then against what we are our true nature. That can produce long term only pain. .Weather the harm be to individual animals or to animals as a grouping…. by environmental destruction…we harm with this thing of meat and dairy..always.

        I don’t atl agree with those that do this thing only for diet. And I also can not agree with those involved in environmental concern who do not this thing…..both make no sense.
        If one did live forever but all was dying around one…what life would that be..better dead to my view.




        0
            1. Yes cathars.

              It has to be mentioned however the history of this event of inquisiton varies considerably between what the church claims was fact(generally found in Wikipedia and similar source) and what the descendents of the cathars in southern France who are still present until this day,,,,say about this genocide.

              For instance the church claims 30.000 or so murdered. The cathars claim 1 million. The second number would make it one of the largest genocides every in human history.
              Basically the inferal would be we have so few vegetarians in western societies as basically we killed them all..AS opposed to other places such as INdia and China where they were not killed in mass numbers.




              1
    3. Is it possible that humans started off as plant eaters and then as the human population grew, they had to move further and further away to find food? As humans then started to live in climates where it was cold and snow covered the ground, they then had no choice but to start hunting and eating meat to survive. Over time human teeth changed to adapt to chewing meat and that is our present state. I would say that humans only fed on milk as babies until their teeth developed for chewing plant food. I don’t think it is healthy for humans to continue drinking milk beyond the infant stage. What other animal does that?
      Just my opinion.




      0
      1. Our teeth are shaped the same as the other apes, that are all 98% vegans naturally, so our teeth are those of a plant eater. In addition, unless you’re a hunter that only eats wild game, you won’t be able to obtain the meat that our ancestors may have eaten. The most compelling evidence against eating animals is the astronomical rates of heart disease in the western world among meat eaters. And I totally agree with you about the milk. No other animal drinks another animal’s milk like we do. It makes no sense.

        Dr. Ben




        1
  3. This is yet another misleading blog. Billions of people in the world have been eating animal meat for thousand of years without any problem including the Okinawans and Chinese and Mediterranean people. Just take a look at the photos to see what the Spaniard eat – I have been there and can attest what they eat which is exactly like in the pics.

    http://guardianlv.com/2013/11/spain-lives-longest-in-europe-spanish-style-mediterranean-diet-explored/




    10
    1. Jerry, these are all cherry-picked studies from 25 years ago! There is plenty of new literature on protein and kidney function now showing its fine! Just not in massive excess like a bodybuilder!




      11
      1. Mac, travel the world and see from your own eyes what people are eating today. Just think about 100,000 people older than 100 year old in Spain, TODAY, not 25 years or a century ago but TODAY.




        3
        1. Jerry

          Where do you get this stuff from? To my knowledge the number of centenarians in Spain is 17,000+ not 100,000+.
          https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-new-york-picasso-lawsuit/new-yorks-met-can-keep-picasso-sold-during-nazi-flight-judge-idUSKBN1FR2VH

          Perhaps there are that many centenarians in Spain today because they ate the traditional Spanish diet

          “The Spanish Mediterranean diet consists of fruits, vegetables, cereal grains, olive oil, seafood, nuts and wine, which are Spain’s traditional agricultural products.”
          http://guardianlv.com/2013/11/spain-lives-longest-in-europe-spanish-style-mediterranean-diet-explored/

          Your posts are just wishful thinking. No wonder you appear to hate scientific evidence. It just doesn’t dleiver the answeresr you want does it?




          7
        2. I think stress and diet go hand in hand. Most Europeans work a 32 hour work week including a 2 hour break between their 6 hour shifts to eat and take a siesta. They also average 8 weeks vacation a year. Most Europeans are much more relaxed and take life in stride compared to Americans. They also don’t have the TV on with FOX, CNN, MSNBC, and CNBC screaming at them that their country is coming apart every minute of the day. Europeans are more social people that get out of the house and talk to each other face to face. We, as Americans cause our own stress. Everything in our lives revolves around money. Europeans don’t worry as much about health care and medical bills and education. They are also more immersed in the Arts which tends to nourish their minds in a spiritual sense. They don’t have to invest a lot of money into their military as they know that the stupid “rich” Americans will always bail them out. I am not a socialist, but maybe we need to spend more time drinking wine and just chilling…




          0
      2. There is plenty of new literature on protein and kidney function now showing its fine! Just not in massive excess like a bodybuilder!

        Produce them..lets see the studies. Can’t tell if they are valid without a look see can we?




        2
        1. on this…
          “these are all cherry-picked studies from 25 years ago! these are all cherry-picked studies from 25 years ago!

          I did not bother on the others as this is so clear. Reference for the first video …
          This study was produced in 2010. The references for each video are below the videos..Click on them and you get the study that substantiates or serves as source for the video. .




          1
    2. aloha, your statement is erroneous and misleading although I do not know from arrogance or ignorance. Your statement has veracity but you failed to understand the topic. The facts are in; the longest living people and those with the least chronic illnesses are vegans. This cannot be rebutted from the scientific studies. that some of the ancient cultures added a little bit of meat, and just a wee portion of meat, to the primarily fruit and veggie diet. Stop being an ideologue or a prima donna. Understand you are not omnipresent but have the ability to learn as a normal human being.




      14
    3. i think I have to agree with Jerry Lewis on this. When you talk about the studies done, can you confirm how exactly each subject was monitored for their meat intake? how long was the study? Do we even know how fit these subjects were? what were their lifestyle like?

      My thought is that a persons lifestyle as a whole determines their health and not one small aspect, should be contributed to their being ill, but their lifestyle as a whole. I do not believe that eating red meat or any meat is bad for anyone. Unless of course you have kidney problems, then yes obviously a high protein diet is not good, but that’s a whole new conversation for a different day.

      You say that eating meat puts a higher stress on the kidneys than plant based proteins, but do we know if this stress is a bad stress? Doing squats as apposed to leg extensions, puts more stress on our bodies, but is a good stress. I think this needs to all be put into context.

      When studies involving the american public eating meat and trans fats, it never tells us how the meats are eaten. Now we all know Americans love to eat a load of crap, so how do we know if the meat eaten ins’t in the form of a Mc donalds burger, then washed down with a big coke, Compared to a person eating a flame grilled, grass fed organic steak of beef with some boiled broccoli on the side? I think these two ways of eating meat are completely different and cannot be classed as both being bad.

      The problem I think is that too many vegans love to cherry pick a few shit examples of some bullshit studies to push their biased opinions about vegetarianism. Truth be told, that for every study you’ll find that says eating vegan is better than meats, there will always be another study to prove the opposite.

      health has always and will continue to always be down to the persons lifestyle as a whole. If you choose to be vegan, then good, but that doesn’t instantly make you healthier than someone that eats meat. Although it might make you a pretentious prick. Exercise on a daily basis, eat plenty of good whole foods, meats, vegies and fruit, and get plenty of good quality sleep.

      It ain’t rocket science, in it?




      8
      1. The fact remains that the longest lived people ate/eat a diet made up of primarily (90+%) whole plant foods and only a minimal amount of animal products.

        How often does this crucial fact have to be reiterated? As is often said, it’s the dose that makes the poison.




        18
      2. The day of associating meat eaters with processed food eaters is very old news. Even the so called Paleo people have evolved. The new group is called Paleo Hacks. All healthy meat eaters now eat an enormous amount of plant foods on top of a small amount of animal foods for additional nutrition. Look at the “meat eater” docotrs, Dr Mercola, Axe, Hyman, Sears, Krisser, etc. they talked everyday about plant foods more than even Dr Greger.

        In the world, when people eat animal foods, even when they are not very health conscious, they eat differently and they don’t have the problems we have in this country. Just watch the following 2 videos to see what normal Japanese eat.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr4MmmWQtZM

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1rQUIMBzJw




        0
        1. Keep on eating that meat Jerry and your leucine protein level will go up, which will increase TOR. In other words, it will shorten your life span.




          4
      3. Please show one published scientific study which has one reversing coronary arterial heart disease other than one produced which shows that derived from a whole foods plant based diet?.




        2
      4. “Truth be told, that for every study you’ll find that says eating vegan is better than meats, there will always be another study to prove the opposite.”

        Lets see them Produce them so we may take a look see and make a judgement on the viability of the material.
        I just saw one study cited above on this and that….turns out it was about rats not humans……so cite them so we can examine them.




        1
      5. When you talk about the studies done, can you confirm how exactly each subject was monitored for their meat intake? how long was the study? Do we even know how fit these subjects were? what were their lifestyle like?”

        Which study are you referencing. The studies which support the video materials are located below the videos. Click on that and the reference source comes up.

        So which video and which source material are you talking about?




        1
      6. Greg

        It ain’t science at all. That’s the problem.

        You are just dreaming up reasons to justify your own dietary beliefs and to ignore the evidence that contradicts them.




        2
      1. You do not need animal protein to get all the essential amino acids you need, right? You also do not eat just animal protein (supplements aside), which means you also get lots of saturated fat and heme iron, both implicated in chronic disease from colon cancer to heart disease, and other non-health-promoting ingredients.. Sure you can eat only a little animal meat but what’s the evidence that would be health-promoting? It surely cannot be for the protein. Perhaps it’s for B12 or zinc or something. Great but then you need to make that argument! At constant calories, if you eat meat, cheese, dairy, eggs you eat e.g. less fiber, which has been shown to be the number one diet ingredient inversely related to type 2 diabetes. You also get less phytonutrients, etc. I don’t think Dr. Greger disputes that eating a small amount of animal products would necessarily translate to a measurable decrease in health/longevity, but at the same time no one really knows what that lower limit is, most would not keep to it, and eating animal products is unnecessary, harmful to the environment, and given factory farming, especially cruel.

        Why eat unnecessary, harmful and cruelly produced food?




        18
        1. correction:
          that eating a small amount of animal products would necessarily translate to a measurable decrease in health/longevity ===>

          that eating a small amount of animal products would not necessarily translate to a measurable decrease in health/longevity

          Still need an edit button.




          5
      2. He is reporting findings of a study. What do you expect? Exactly the point of the study and video… There’s not much good in animal protein..unless one is starving and definitely nothing good for the unfortunate beast one is consuming.




        7
      3. Seems some of us are addicted to meat. Meat is not needed and is horrible for the body and the planet.
        I gave up the addiction 45 years ago. Today I’m over 80 and look and work like someone much younger.
        Jeanette




        12
      4. What do you expect? He is a vegan. He is not going to write anything good about animal protein, even if taken in moderation.

        I am vegan, and I am now going to say something good about animal protein.
        My cat is best fed animal protein to keep it healthy and well.




        2
    4. Since becoming a vegan my kidney function has improved so much that I no longer need to do 6 monthly 24 hour urine collections, and my C-reactive protein has fallen to less than 1mg/L. My filtration rate has improved to that of over 10 years ago, the proof is in the pudding.

      I no longer hunt or fish, I believe taking the life of another creature is a serious matter, and everyone eating meat should be responsible for the coup de grace.

      I have seen how many of these creatures are treated and it is inhumane and disgusting, for instance, pens they can’t turn around in, concrete under foot never feeling grass between their hoofs, never feeling the warm sunshine on their back, or cooling shower to wash the caked on excrement off their backs. I live in a farming country, I could go on, suffice it to say these poor souls (nephesh) know of their vulnerability and can smell death kilometres away from the freezing works.

      The world would be a better place if people ate plants and lived and let live.




      25
      1. I admire you, Kevin. Good to know there are enlightened folks such as you. I actually worked summers in a slaughter house doing the actual task of shooting cattle. I did it only for three years but the overwhelming regret, sadness and horror I live with will continue to the end of my days. Today, I live with regret for all the murders I committed of beings who wanted to live just the same as us humans. Turning vegetarian a few years ago is my small way of trying to atone for the evil. In the process, I have never ever felt better! I do not even crave for meat anymore when those around me indulge in this sad practice.




        14
        1. Good on you Harry. If all carnivores spent a day at the coal face and looked into the eyes of these industrialized products before dismemberment and distribution, they would likely not gorge themselves on it to degree they do now.




          7
      2. How I wish everyone thought the same as you. The world would be a better place for A-L-L creatures, not just for humans. More eloquent words have rarely been spoken! Thank you.




        8
      3. It’s good that the vegan diet works for you. But don’t blame on animal food for causing it. Without knowing you, I suspect that your diet fixes your problem because:

        1) you now eat more plant foods which fights diseases. But nobody ever said that you don’t eat plant foods while eating also animal foods. In fact, I eat an enormous amount of plant foods everyday on top of a small amount of animal foods. I probably eat more plant foods than 99% of you guys.

        2) you used to eat the wrong kind of animal foods. For instance, eating processed food is not a healthy way to eat no matter what it is.

        Lastly about not killing animals or mistreat them, we all thrive to do. But out of necessity, working but health conscious people like me have to eat some because most of you don’t know what you are missing and I am tired of telling over and over what is missing in your diet.




        0
        1. Jerry

          And we are tired of listening to your dietary fantasies, invented “facts” and surreal claims that all the evidence that you do not like is “faked”, “bogus”, “mystical” or “bad research”.

          Can’t you give it a rest?




          5
    5. For anyone who is confused about what the human body is equipped to eat, here are some links to NutritionFacts videos and a research paper that go a long way in explaining the diet that humans have evolved to eat. There are some really convincing graphs in the research paper that support the conclusions of the videos.

      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-problem-with-the-paleo-diet-argument/

      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/lose-two-pounds-one-sitting-taking-mioscenic-route/

      https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00545795/document




      8
      1. Just so that you know, unlike other species, human is an intelligent animal who can choose whatever he/she wants to eat, either by chewing, cooking, blending, juicing. And human can choose to eat even a food that he/she does not like but the human does anyway for nutritional purpose. For instance I can eat bitter melon or moringa although I don’t like its bitter taste.

        One more thing, I can warranty that the parents of all posters on this board are meat eaters. Veganism just came to the scene in the U.S. since a few decades and you guys make it look like our ancestors have been eating like this forever.

        And the guy/gal who picks your kale is also a meat eater.




        0
        1. “human is an intelligent animal who can choose whatever he/she wants to eat”

          In modern society, immediate gratification is the factor used to chose. Therefore, it is not an intelligent choice. But in some poor countries, like those studied in the original Mediterranean diet, they did not have a choice. Yet they did better.




          1
      2. Can I put a question in here as I cannot find an answer anywhere else. I have been on WFPB for over two years eating a lot of high oxalate foods. Because my husband has macular degeneration we started having a handful of kale each in a smoothie each day. I started to develop what I think from researching is Vulvodynia. The symptoms where discomfort at the top of my inside thigh spreading through to my vulva. I stopped the kale and this symptom decreased but I am still left with some soreness around my vulva. Has anyone else reported this problem.




        0
        1. Hi thanks for your question. It may be worthwhile to see a physician and get a diagnosis if you have not already. If we know for sure what we are dealing with, it may be easier to find some information to help you.
          I am not aware of Kale having any negative effects on women’s health. I have not heard anyone else report this issue.
          Vulvodynia is one of those things that we don’t have a clear cause for. It is often treated with anti-inflammatory medication. You might want to look at some of Dr. Greger’s videos about inflammation. Some of that information might help.
          https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/inflammation/
          https://nutritionfacts.org/video/anti-inflammatory-life-is-a-bowl-of-cherries/

          All the best to you.
          NurseKelly
          Health Support Volunteer




          0
    6. Jerry

      Yes, people have been eating these things for long time. However, to say that they have not caused any problems is a ridiculous assertion.

      The scientific literature from around the world demonstrates the health problems arising from meat consumption. For example (and you have been informed of this before), Uruguayans eating grass fed organic meat experience higher rates of cancer, the more meat they eat.
      http://journal.waocp.org/?sid=Entrez:PubMed&id=pmid:19640186&key=2009.10.3.429

      The World Health Association has identified red meat as a group 2A carcinogen.
      https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/general-info/known-and-probable-human-carcinogens.html

      Then there’ s heartt disease, kidney disease etc.

      Your claim is absurd.




      3
    7. Jerry, I love your words, because they make me laughing all the time. ;-)
      Yes of course, all Spainiard have such meals every day… and today they make also always a photo before eating, to post it by instagram.
      Have you ask your self whether the autor of this article or the owner of this paper are omnivores or vegans?
      Jerry, do you think that the people of Spain are totally different from the rest of the world – do you really think they are not affected by the meat, dairy and pharma industry?
      Maybe you have been in Spain and may be you have seen people eating such things but also may be you don’t know anything about the european subventions for the meat industry? Meat from the discounter is much, much cheaper then vegtables for example. I can buy some pork meat for about 3 – 4 €/kg but have to pay at the moment 5 – 6 €/kg for broccoli, 12 €/kg for walnuts. Spain has an unemployment rate of nearly 25 % during young people – what would you eat if you have no or less money?




      4
    8. Jerry is back! Recommending diets and foods shown to kill you of heart disease since January 2016. Stay tuned until next time folks!




      5
  4. Dietary protein and renal strain
    Concerns about the level of dietary protein and renal function are often presented in public health guidelines [59]. In addition to the claims that high protein intake causes renal disease, some studies have suggested that renal function may be negatively affected by routine consumption of high protein diets [72-75]. Although high protein diets cause changes in renal function (i.e., increased GFR) and several related endocrine factors [1,76,77] that may be harmful to individuals with renal disease [52,53], here is not sufficient research to extend these findings to healthy individuals with normal renal function at this time.

    The lay public is often told that high protein diets “overwork” the kidney and may negatively impact renal function over time [78]. In addition, a number of highly regarded organizations appear to support this line of reasoning [79] given the physiological processes required for excretion of protein-related metabolic waste products to maintain homeostasis following consumption of protein at levels in excess of recommended amounts. Increased consumption of dietary protein is linearly related to the production of urea [80] and urea excretion is controlled by the kidney. These processes are of significant energetic cost to the kidney and represent the physiological “strain” associated with increased protein intake [81].

    The word “strain” is misleading given its negative connotation. In a press release [82], one group asserted that increased dietary protein “strains” the kidney via increased urea production, and causes dehydration and accumulation of blood urea nitrogen. This press release also suggested that these events synergistically overwork the kidney and predispose humans to CKD. Scientific research is often misrepresented in this context. Research from our laboratory [83] which is cited in the press release, does not support these contentions. Rather, we found that habitual consumption of a high protein diet minimally affected hydration indices. Changes in total body water and renal function were not measured.

    The concept that increased dietary protein leads to dehydration may have originated from an unsubstantiated extension of a 1954 review of the nitrogen balance literature [84]. This review focused on the design of survival rations for military operations in the desert or at sea, when water supply and energy intake are limited. Since the excretion of 1 gram of urea nitrogen requires 40 – 60 mL of additional water, increased protein intakes in the study translated into an increased water requirement (i.e., +250 mL water per 6 grams of dietary nitrogen in a 500 Kcal diet) for excretion of urea nitrogen. This increased fluid requirement is situation specific and is not necessarily applicable to individuals whose calorie and water intakes are adequate. Presently, we know of no studies executed in healthy individuals with normal renal function which demonstrate a clear relation between increased dietary protein intake and dehydration or a detrimental “strain” on the kidney. Therefore, claims that a high protein diet promotes dehydration or adversely “strains” the kidney remain speculative.




    4
      1. I cite another paper (link), sports medicine, 2014:

        Higher Protein Diets and Renal Health

        An often-cited potential problem with higher protein diets is the potential risk such diets may pose for renal health. It is likely that these comments are made in light of the knowledge that people in renal failure benefit from protein-restricted diets [40]. Notwithstanding this evidence [40], a circular argument regarding higher protein and renal health in people with normal renal function cannot be made; that is, because people with poor renal function benefit from a lower protein intake does not mean that athletes with normal renal function who consume high protein will have problems with their renal health [41, 42]. In fact, an examination of the statements made by both the Institute of Medicine in setting the protein RDA in North America [1], as well as the World Health Organization’s (WHO) report on protein intakes [2], indicates there is no evidence linking a higher protein diet to renal disease. As the WHO report [2] states, “… the suggestion that the decline of glomerular filtration rate that occurs … in healthy subjects … can be attenuated by reducing the protein in the diet appears to have no foundation”.

        In agreement with the WHO’s conclusion, the panel setting the Australian and New Zealand Nutrient Reference Values [43] concluded “There is no published evidence that a diet containing up to 2.8 g protein/kg/day produces adverse effects on kidney metabolism in athletes. In addition, no known association of protein intake with progressive renal insufficiency has been determined [44]”.




        0
        1. Yes, this is another (2007) paper from McMaster University. By a kinesiologist of all things.
          Read it and you will see that

          “funding came from the US Dairy Research Institute, and Dairy Farmers of Canada. Stuart M. Phillips has previously received travel expenses and has served on the speaker’s bureau for the US National Dairy Council and the Dairy Farmers of Canada.”

          In any case, this is an article about protein in general. It is not about animal protein consumption.




          0
  5. the one study you cite done in UK and Italy on renal function in healthy individuals on animal vs plant protein, controlled for same amounts of both, actually showed improved renal function. GFR mean glom filtrn rate, and higher the better. So that article actually seems to have shown that animal diet would be better for renal function in the 20-40 year old healthy group!




    3
    1. Tomasch Bayes what study are you referencing?

      Here are the results obtained from the first study on the first video on the list…
      .Results:Comparedwiththelowestquartile,thehighestquartileofanimalfat(oddsratio(OR):1.72;95%confidenceinterval (CI): 1.12 to 2.64) and two or more servings of red meat per week (OR: 1.51; 95% CI: 1.01 to 2.26) were directly associated with microalbuminuria. After adjustment for other nutrients individually associated with eGFR decline >30%, only the highest quartile of sodium intake remained directly associated (OR: 1.52; 95% CI: 1.10 to 2.09), whereas -carotene appeared protective (OR: 0.62, 95% CI: 0.43 to 0.89). Results did not vary by diabetes status for microalbuminuria and eGFR outcomes or in those without hypertension at baseline for eGFR decline. No significant associations were seen for other types of protein, fat, vitamins, folate, fructose, or potassium. Conclusions: Higher dietary intake of animal fat and two or more servings per week of red meat may increase risk for microalbuminuria. Lower sodium and higher -carotene intake may reduce risk for eGFR decline. Clin J Am Soc Nephrol 5: 836–843, 2010. doi: 10.2215/CJN.08001109




      2
    2. Sorry, Tomasch, but that isn’t my understanding

      For example, you claim ‘the higher the better” I am not aware of any scientific evidence for this statement. “Normal” or high is said to be equal to or greater than 90. Other than that, I’m not aware of any health or medical authority stating ‘the higher the better” when it comes to GFR numbers. I think you just made that up.

      MedlinePlus notes that “According to the National Kidney Foundation, normal results range from 90 to 120 mL/min/1.73 m2”
      https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/007305.htm

      In this study, the animal protein group was slightly above this ‘normal range’ whereas the vegetable protein group was solidly within the normal range.

      Surely, a higher rate simply means that the kidneys are clearing more waste/toxins from the body? I understand that higher GFR rates are found in people consuming high levels of (animal) protein and in people consuming high levels of alcohol (which presumably both generate more waste/toxins requiring clearance).

      Perhaps this is one reason why the authors of that study did not appear to think that the high animal protein diet improved renal function and instead concluded
      “Vegetable proteins seem to induce renal changes comparable to those obtained by reducing the total amount of protein in the diet and prevent the vasodilatory and proteinuric effects of meat. These effects appear to be mediated by hormonal changes involving glucagon secretion and renal prostaglandin production. Protein modified, rather than protein restricted, diets may prove advantageous in the long-term treatment of chronic renal failure.”
      http://www.kidney-international.theisn.org/article/S0085-2538(15)34940-1/pdf




      0
  6. The Paleo fairytale:

    We will drive to a store to purchase, or have sick, domesticated and cruelly raised animal protein prepared for us in oversized portions, bathed in more saturated fat, sugar, salt, processing chemicals and added hormones, 3 OR MORE TIMES A DAY.

    We will then spend 75% of waking hours, sitting or sleeping – just like our healthy hunter gatherer ancestors did.

    And then by some miracle, we will reap the same assumed health benefits they had.

    Really?

    A healthy proud monthly supporter of Nutritionfacts.org




    21
    1. Diabetes is caused by consumption of animal fat. When the pancreas is exposed to it its “beta” cells die. By the time one has symptoms of diabetes, over half of the pancreas is already dead.

      Fructose and refined grains cause heart disease though, because they cause its precursor – inflammation.




      9
      1. Re: Diabetes is caused by consumption of animal fat.

        Wrong. Look at the statistics of countries that consume dairy for instance. Do you see a pattern?

        In fact the fake low fat theory caused people to consume sugar instead of fat, and that causes diabetes.




        0
        1. Not the “low fat theory” causes cancer and diabetes – the fact, that the industry pick it up to sell more stupid things. Like skim milk – if you remove the fat, the protein will goes up percentage.

          I’m really woundering, what is your purpose here to post such simplify words?

          Do you like to rescue us all for the false Guru Dr. Greger or do you simply act like a little boy, who is refusing to eat his oats although he already knows it’s good for him?

          Come on boy, don’t wast your energy you have no chance, we voluntary like to follow the WFPBLFD for our health.

          He buddy, you are already here, you have already read all this articles, one part of your brain said: Jerry, try it it’s better for you. But there is still one part that says: No, you need this meat, you need this cheese, milk, eggs…
          Believe me – most of us have had, more or less, the same inner fight. I have eat 3 time a day, 7 day a week and 53 week a year animal products for nearly 45 years – before I stopped it from one day to the other (also my wife and our dog, now she is 15 on a good health too)
          Take your time, on day you will not know why you have been waiting for so long to change you diet… believe me




          6
        2. If you are going to talk about statistics, Jerry, then please provide some! More “Jerry built facts”, as Tom said a while back.

          Here’s an article by a researcher on nutritional genomics (relationship of nutrition to gene expression) discussing the role of animal fat in T2D risk. Yes, I know, Jerry, this has to be more fake news, but then when you say that it really means “I don’t like it and so reject it.

          http://ucdintegrativemedicine.com/2016/09/diet-diabetes-saturated-fats-real-enemy/#gs.9OAopfY

          But then one might ask “Why take articles (with references) like this by actual researchers seriously, when there’s Jerry around to set us straight?”. If you wonder, you should get a cognitive check up.




          5
    2. The #1 cause of diabetes is FAT and consumption branched-chain amino acids (animal protein). In America, 70% of meat eaters are overweight or obese. Vegans almost never get type II diabetes.




      9
      1. Allen, let’s be balanced here, vegans do get diabetes. Some of my diabetic clients are vegans. Excess carbs also make for high glucose levels which then damage the pancreas. Is fat in the diet a factor, yes, but it’s Not the only one.
        Some people just don’t make enough insulin.
        This kind of thinking isn’t fair to people who have eaten a great diet and still have illness. Stop the blame game, it helps no one.




        1
          1. Thanks for this link.

            I look at the numbers and it is exciting that there is that much hope for people, but I know that there isn’t 100% improvement. There is a gap of people who are struggling in spite of all their efforts.

            I am going to post the percentages from Barnard’s 3 week study here, because I am not good at remembering percentages and I have so many people around me who are on insulin.

            After 3 weeks very low fat vegan

            39% of those treated with insulin could stop insulin
            71% of those on oral medicines could stop taking them.
            For those on diet alone, fasting blood glucose fell by 24%.

            Are there any studies from less low fat vegan? Dr. Barnard limits nuts and avocado. I am pondering those things, because when I tell people that vegan might help their Diabetes, that is what people ask next. Nuts, Avocados and oil. Oil, he is against, if I remember right.

            I am learning every vegan doctors’ plans all at once, plus some vegan non-doctors, so I get confused about which way of eating to choose, even after a year of researching all of this.

            Is it, you shouldn’t eat many nuts or avocado’s until your pancreas is functioning? Or you should always be careful with them, if you have issues with your pancreas?

            I am also wondering about the concept of the dirty genes, because today I interacted with a woman who was vegetarian, but who had her genes analyzed and she had the one where she couldn’t process folic acid, and was taken off all grains by her naturopath. I am currently not eating almost any grains, but I was about to start on them and she said that I should do one of the DNA tests to see whether I can process folic acid.

            I had read the web-site of the doctor who wrote Dirty Genes a long time ago, but already had cut back on grains, without doing the test. Does anyone have any information about that issue?

            I guess I can try to find the topic on this site, but I don’t know what to search by. Folic Acid?




            0
            1. Deb

              Only a relatively small proportion of the population would have this particular gene mutation. It is unlikely that you would be one of them. Also I understand that the genetic test can be quite expensive. I’d suggest that you talk to your (medical) doctor about this rather than a naturopath, if you are concerned.

              A real doctor would know that not being able to process folic acid does not mean that you must avoid all grains. It means that you must avoid all grains and other foods fortified/enriched/supplemented with folic acid.

              Organic grains are typically not fortified with folic acid so would be safe to eat for someone with this genetic mutation. But it is important always to check the ingredient list to ensure that that folic acid is not included.

              https://nutritionfacts.org/video/can-folic-acid-be-harmful/
              http://mthfr.net/absolutely-no-folic-acid-question/2011/10/04/
              https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Folate-HealthProfessional/




              0
              1. Thanks.

                Organic grains aren’t fortified is the exact answer I needed.

                Yes, I was told that the cheapest genetic testing would be $98.

                I ask, because several of the people around me have tested positive for it and the woman I spoke with yesterday said that she was told 60% of people test positive.

                I haven’t taken the test, but more than one person that I know has taken it and their whole family ended up testing positive.

                It is easier for me to eat organic than take the test.




                1
    3. The number one cause of kidney failure ? Diabetes. The number one cause of diabetes ? Fructose and refined products

      Reference source please so we may check to see if the claimed statement is true? .




      2
    4. Buster

      Yes, we know that you are employed to promote dairy products online and distract attention away from possible adverse effects. But this is a bit much. This claim of yours is regarded as a myth
      “With Type 2 diabetes, though we know sugar doesn’t directly causes Type 2 diabetes, you are more likely to get it if you are overweight. You gain weight when you take in more calories than your body needs, and sugary foods and drinks contain a lot of calories.”
      https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/eating-with-diabetes/diabetes-food-myths/myth-sugar-causes-diabetes

      Presumably, you are doing this to distract attention away from other possible risk factors for diabetes such as (saturated) fat since dairy foods are high in (saturated) fat
      http://ucdintegrativemedicine.com/2016/09/diet-diabetes-saturated-fats-real-enemy/#gs.153oKps




      4
  7. Wow, aren’t you the expert! Seriously, unsupportable oversimplification. The link between sugars and type 2 diabetes (omitting the effects of fructose) appears to be excess calories, which leads to fat storage and hence to insulin resistance when muscle and liver cells get excessive fat deposits dysregulating insulin receptors. And the primary fat culprit is, in fact, saturated fat.

    A review of recent evidence relating to sugars, insulin resistance and diabetes

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5174139/

    In particular, the most marked effects are observed when a high sugars intake is accompanied by an excess energy intake. This does not mean that a high intake of free sugars does not have any detrimental impact on health, but rather that such an effect seems more likely to be a result of the high sugars intake increasing the chances of an excessive energy intake rather than it leading to a direct detrimental effect on metabolism.

    No one is advocating diets high in fructose of refined sugars. But get your facts straight. Oh, well, that is, is you care about facts…




    9
  8. Only mal-nourished people have a protein deficiency; the body is capable of making its own. Most people in western society are deficient in fiber.




    8
    1. Corpman, what? The body can only make protein out of other protein. Protein is essential. But totally true we need very far less than most doctors recommend, and way, way, less than most people eat.




      0
      1. we need very far less than most doctors recommend, and way, way, less than most people eat.
        Reference source please. Please qualify most. Most americans most people globally or most in some other qualification? Which or what doctors?




        0
        1. Ron

          I think Marilyn is correct on this.

          What most adults need is the Estimated Average Requirement (EAR) for protein as determined by the US Institute Of Medicine (it has a new name now but I can’t remember it).

          However, most doctors etc seem to recommend diets that conform to the US dietary guidelines Average Macronutrient Distribution Range (AMDR) and the MyPlate guide. This approach apparently delivers about twice or more the protein required as determined by the EAR

          It is all quite complicated but this article describes the situation. The authors however make a case for higher protein levels being advantageous (but do not mention those studies showing an association between high protein low carb diets and increased mortality)
          https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/8/2/266/4558082




          2
          1. She is probably correct in that Tom but is using to broad a term.Docs depend on advise to patients depending in part on what dietary recommendations the standard of care where they practice is. Point being it varies from place to place.
            If America is considered it must be stated.
            And consumption of protein varies amongst people greatly as well.
            Americans yes it is high. Others Vietnamese Nigerians perhaps not.
            So it requires qualification. Many of the statements being made on this thread also require qualification. Gross generalities and such are being stated to much to draw conclusion from.




            1
          2. Tom, thanks for answering Ron.
            My comment was meant to cause people to question how much protein they really do need. And there’s no hard and fast answers, depends on health status, age etc. Dr. Valter Longo has some research on the question.
            Frequently I have read a paper, but finding the reference takes time.
            Since I don’t have a lot of time, still work, I need to rethink posting here if I’m just aggravating people.




            1
              1. Thank you Tom, that means a lot coming from you.
                I think we mostly agree, just that you see the forest (the big studies), I am seeing the sick trees. They mostly get sent to me when the usual treatments, tthe ones that work for most of the trees, aren’t working for them.
                We sure agree that plant based is the answer, just how to manage the finer points.




                1
            1. Bo offense Marilyn and I am not aggravated but we have as of this read by my count 5 I think participants from other countries than the US.And that is just on this thread.

              General statements may a bit too general considering who is participating here.

              Protein consumption and recommendation vary considerably. AS per example the WHO has significantly lower protein recommendations than those found in the US.by governmental agency.




              1
              1. Ron, absolutely no offense taken. Just do not want to add to the annoyance level here.
                Actually, the USDA, nutritionists like Marion Nestle, and the WHO/FAO guidelines are basically the same. That is 0.8 grams protein per 2 lbs., (USDA), WHO per kilogram.

                It’s the doctors in many places, who are telling people 80-120 grams per day. Maybe because there is so much obesity, and the doctors don’t realize that these guidelines are for people of normal weight.
                Also they are exchanging protein for both carbs and fats in the diet, being afraid of recommending either of those.

                Actually have read the WHO/FAO report, way too many pages of it, and it mentions that there is too much protein consumption in developed countries.




                1
  9. I’m writing this comment with tears of joy. The man in my life is undergoing an operation next week on his kidney. The tests showed a nodule. He’s facing either a partial or complete removal of his left kidney.

    He calls me a fanatic for the way I eat. He knows me long enough to know my transition from vegetarian to vegan to whole food plant based. We don’t live together and eat only one meal each week together. I see his food choices every Saturday at the take out buffet. He’s 75. It was only a matter of what organ and when it would happen. He’s a cheese addict and has high blood pressure (on medication for 15+ years). A large meal with meat before bed is normal for most Argentines, but he can’t figure out why he doesn’t sleep well.

    This article arrived at the exact moment I needed it. I clicked on Spanish and was thrilled to see the translation appear. That’s why I have tears of joy. I want to share this with him. If he doesn’t change his diet, who knows what’s next. I’ve copied the translation and will print it for him to read. If he doesn’t get it, there is nothing more I can do. This is the time to try. He will be in the hospital for 5-7 days and then at home for recovery for a few weeks. It’s now or never.

    All the senior men we know dancing tango in Buenos Aires are facing some health crisis. They are so attached to eating Argentine beef, etc. that they would rather be sick on animal protein than well on plant protein. It makes no sense to me. I gently suggest eliminating what causes inflamation and clogged arteries. There bodies are time bombs waiting to explode. I know there is a better way.

    Thank you Dr. Greger for the work you do.




    16
    1. Wishing you and the man in your life well as you walk together through this process.

      My cousin is at the edge of Dialysis and what frustrates me is that they wanted him to do Dialysis two years ago, but he cut back on his proteins, after we had talked, but it ended up a war, because his doctors kept telling him, “You need more protein. You need more protein.” every visit, so he increased his animal proteins and, once again, he was just told he needs to go on dialysis.

      I don’t understand why they are pushing the animal proteins on him and my saying to go vegetable proteins has been confusing to him, and he has expressed it.

      He doesn’t plan on going on dialysis. He plans on dying.

      I told him that if he is planning on dying, maybe he could try vegan for a while – to show our family if it reverses kidney disease, since eventually it will probably be more people whom he loves who will be facing it.

      Not sure what he will do. Genuinely hoping he will try plant proteins.

      I watch the people arguing and I know that it is different for those of us who have people who are dying. It will never be an intellectual argument for me again.

      I watch Dr. Greger, because of his grandmother, because I know that it isn’t an intellectual argument for him. It is about saving lives.

      I am not saying that he will get everything perfect. I am not saying that he will never cherry pick. Everybody cherry picks, is my best estimation of things, but he is not cherry picking in a way where he is trying to get us to eat things, which may be harmful, because of money. Lots of people do that. I appreciate that he isn’t doing that.

      I appreciate that he is showing the studies on the screen and that he is showing enough studies that I can follow the logic and make my own decisions. That is why I come here every day.




      7
      1. Deb, I hope your cousin listens to you. One of my relatives had kidney disease and was given 6 months to live. Despite his doctor’s advice, he cut his protein intake to 20 grams a day. He also lost the excess weight he needed to, to reduce body stress.
        He lived 12 more years without dialysis.
        Animal derived protein is much harder on the kidneys because it is acidic and causes the kidneys to work harder. Maybe you can send your cousin this thread?




        4
        1. Thank you Marylin. I appreciate your encouragement. He has bad cataracts and can’t see his computer right now and he is confused as heck about which dietary changes to make.

          I went to see him today to do his laundry and font think he is open to vegan at all.

          I have been suggesting replacing ankmal proteins and his doctors are saying that he needs more animal proteins and that he has to go on dialysis. He has about 20 pounds of extra fluid right now.

          He had gone to a nutritionist who may have recommended something close to McDougall without showing the research and he was horrified.

          I know that the fact that he has been managing his diabetes the other way all these years has made him so afraid of carbs.

          I will try again, but I have to be sensitive or he will just shut down and close me out.




          2
    1. Wow, I can add them to my rotting pile of the American Heart Association, American Diabetes Association and the Arthritis Foundation for promoting meat in the diet!




      10
  10. I agree with the fact that consuming the proper amount of water throughout the day, and too much is no good either, keeps the kidneys clean and flushed. Fruits and vegetables contain a lot of healthy water compared to meats and fish. I eat chicken and/or fish about 3 times a week in small portions. I don’t drink water a half hour before or after a meal because it dilutes the acid in my stomach that I need for digestion and it triggers my IBS-D. I eat plenty of steamed vegetables with my meals.

    I also think that the less you are capable of handling stress, the more likely you are to getting seriously sick with whatever type of diet you are eating.

    Is there a risk to eating soy and tofu products? I have read that soy and even vitamin E in moderate quantities can cause cancer.




    0
    1. Processed soy is rich in trypsin inhibitors which hinders protein digestion .TVP is used to make fake meats and milks are entirely fragmented foods made from soybeans that has been heat treated at very high temperatures and washed with alkaline washes to extract the beans fat content or to neutralize the powerful enzyme inhibitors , these practices completely denature the soy making them very hard to digest . In addition MSG a neurotoxin routinely added to make the product taste like what it is supposed to imitate . Soy contains no Vitamin A or D which are needed to assimilate the high protein found in soy. Quite likely that is why in Asia it is normally consumed with fish or fish broth or other high fat foods that contain the Vitamins necessary .
      Some scientist estimate a child getting a soy formula is getting the hormonal equivalent of 5 birth control pills a day .




      2
      1. A Whole Plant Food diet does not contain any “processed” soy products!

        For anyone who is confused about what the human body is equipped to eat, here are some links to NutritionFacts videos and a research paper that go a long way in explaining the diet that humans have evolved to eat. There are some really convincing graphs in the research paper that support the conclusions of the videos.

        https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-problem-with-the-paleo-diet-argument/

        https://nutritionfacts.org/video/lose-two-pounds-one-sitting-taking-mioscenic-route/

        https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00545795/document




        6
      2. “Some scientist estimate a child getting a soy formula is getting the hormonal equivalent of 5 birth control pills a day “.

        What scientists? Show the reference source.




        4
      3. Buster

        Since you are employed to promote dairy products online, it is no surprise that you would attack dairy’s biggest competitor in the milk, cheese, yoghurt .etc markets – soy.

        As for hormones in soy, what about all those bovine hormones in dairy products? Not to mention the synthetic hormones that are injected into the poor beasts and then find their way into dairy etc For example

        “During the last couple of years, increasing body of evidence are indicating another property of hormones in dairy products as possible impact on human health including the role of some estrogens and insulin-like growth factor-1 in initiation and provoking of breast, prostate and endometrial tumours.”
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524299/




        4
    2. hi Jack, Dr Greger has amassed a great collection of videos and articles on the topic of soy. Here’s a link to get you started
      https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/soy/ Many videos address the topic of the benefits of consuming soy as part of a plant based diet when cancer is a concern https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-role-of-soy-foods-in-prostate-cancer-prevention-and-treatment/ While Dr Greger is enthusiastic about soy milk, soy foods like edemame, or fermented soy like tempeh are preferred over processed fake meats (avoid). There are great recipes out there for bean burgers though so no need to deal with heavily processed foods.




      5
      1. i have watched at least some of the soy videos.

        Is there one that says the soy veggie burgers are bad?

        I like the fake chicken burgers and one of the veggie burgers. I don’t eat them often right now, but they are one of my easiest microwave lunches at work.

        I have been eating way more fruits and veggies right now, but I am grazing on those and srill haven’t added many other foods in, and eventually I will.




        0
    3. Jack

      The short answer is that there is no increased cancer risk from eating soy and in fact, there is evidence that it may be protective. There are .many highly technical reviews in the professional literature but this CNN summary of the science on the subject is very accessible

      https://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/07/health/soy-foods-history-cancer-where-do-we-stand-explainer/index.html

      Of course, if you are on medication eg for thyroid disorders or warfarin, you my want to discuss how much you can safely eat
      https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-975-soy.aspx?activeingredientid=975




      3
    4. Jack,

      thanks for your question. There are 2 types of vitamin E, natural and synthetic. You can get natural vitamin E either from food or even in supplements. Natural form of vitamin E is listed as d-alpha tocopherol, d-alpha tocopheryl acetate, or d-alpha tocopheryl succinate. Synthetic forms of vitamin E are labeled with a dl- prefix.

      “Conclusion Dietary supplementation with vitamin E significantly increased the risk of prostate cancer among healthy men.”

      https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/1104493

      So you should avoid it.

      And what about soy? See for yourself:

      https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/soy/

      I hope this helped,

      Health Support Adam P.




      1
  11. The article refers to eating a “vegan diet.” I do not see how eating a vegan diet of potato chips and soda is beneficial to kidney health. Perhaps you meant a whole food vegan diet?




    2
    1. That is not a “vegan” diet. That is an imbecile, moron diet! Goes without saying. Just simple, common sense! It’s a double whammy! Hypertension and cancer are possibilities with potato chips and soda, respectively.




      2
    2. The article refers to eating a “vegan diet.” I do not see how eating a vegan diet of potato chips and soda is beneficial to kidney health. Perhaps you meant a whole food vegan diet?

      This is the reference I find in the blog on a vegan diet…

      Protein leakage on a standard low-sodium diet was compared to a special supplemented vegan diet.

      Are you then claiming this special supplemented vegan diet is a chips and soda diet…If you are I think that is not so.
      Please clarify your statement and add exactly to what statement you are referencing?.




      1
    1. Hilary google eGFR that test in around about way quantifies how efficiently your kidneys are working. Also if damage is suspected they use a dipstick in a urine sample to check for any protein leakage, this can be static from damage caused from a past systemic infection or progressive as in the case of inappropriate diet.




      2
    2. Hey, Hilary,

      there are 2 basic tests: Albumin to creatinine ratio (ACR) and glomerular filtration rate (GFR).

      ACR measures the amount of albumin (a type of protein that should be presented in your blood) in your urine (there shouldn’t be any), if there is, your may have some kind of a kidney disease (the test should be repeated to confirm the results. Three positive results over three months or more is a sign of kidney disease.).

      Then we have GFR. Your blood will be tested for a waste product called creatinine. Creatinine comes from muscle tissue. When the kidneys are damaged, they can’t filter the creatinine and it builds up in our blood. Yourcreatinine result to calculate your glomerular filtration rate.

      I hope this helped,

      Health Support Adam P.




      1
  12. Well, I have ABSOLUTELY NO sympathy for those who undergo dialysis or die of kidney disease. They brought it upon themselves! Enjoy meat, suffer, and die early. Sorry!!




    1
    1. Dr.???A.T.Cromwell, (I sure hope you aren’t an MD) not everyone with kidney disease ‘brings it on themselves’!!! Some have genetic disease, even little children.
      Your remark is inexcusable and very sad!




      4
    2. Dr, just so that you know, eating animal food has nothing to do with kidney disease. In fact, a well known vegan on this board destroyed his liver and kidney with statin due to his belief in the 70 year old low fat theory.

      Also you may want to know that diabetes is one of the main cause of kidney disease and the epidemic of diabetes in our country and the world was created by the low fat theory and people eat sugar instead.

      And last, what kind of quack doctor are you? If you are a neurologist, will you treat a vegan who gets Alzheimer’s because of his/her low fat diet?




      0
      1. Jerry

        The evidence clearly shows that animal protein (and fat) appear to adversely affect kidney function. You can shout all you want that it doesn’t but the evidence on this proves you wrong – as it does on almost all your other claims..

        You are also clearly referring to me in these comments. However, as you have been told many times before
        1. I am not a vegan
        2. I went on statins many years ago but they caused liver troubles so I stopped using them
        3. my liver is perfectly fine now and has been for over 10 years
        4. there is not and never has been anything wrong with my kidneys

        As for your demented rants about fat, you must know that high saturated fat consumption is a risk factor for diabetes as it is for Alzheimer’s.
        http://ucdintegrativemedicine.com/2016/09/diet-diabetes-saturated-fats-real-enemy/#gs.6HGT7po

        “In human epidemiological studies, it has been shown that intake of a high-fat diet that includes mostly omega-6 and SFAs is associated with worse performance on a cognitive task.14,40–43 Furthermore, studies have shown that a diet containing mostly SFAs and TFAs is associated with increased risk for Alzheimer’s disease (AD).”
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4074256/

        Given your poor recall/memory, your abusive outbursts and invective (such as here) and your refusal to accept and and all evidence that conflicts with your opinions, your delusions about what people eat and ate in other countries, plus the constant repetition of your angry claims ….. you really should get yourself checked out for cognitive impairment and Alzheimer’s. Right away.

        The symptoms you display here on a daily basis indicate even to a layperson like me that you urgently need to be checked out by a registered medical professional.




        9
    3. On this…”Well, I have ABSOLUTELY NO sympathy for those who undergo dialysis or die of kidney disease. They brought it upon themselves! Enjoy meat, suffer, and die early. Sorry!!”

      Why the supposition that one can enjoy meat?
      I am a vegan and consider it to be all about sympathy for humans and animals. And most of us do not find one can enjoy meat. Generally only meat eaters find that.




      4
      1. I don’t know…. I’m wondering about the idea of parallel blog comments–one serious and one for laughs. Laughter is healthy and I’ve gotten a lot of laughs so far this morning.




        2
  13. Brain function if people don’t supplement may be the main vulnerability of vegan, but I will say that mine has improved radically since going vegan and supplementing B12 and Omega 3’s.

    Dr. Greger didn’t shrink away from that study, just because he believes in vegan is what I am going to say. If he was only trying to promote veganism, rather than looking at the bigger reality, he would have skipped it. I admire that he didn’t skip it. He shouldn’t skip these studies either.

    Doctors did studies where diabetes and heart disease and cancer turn around and where kidney function improved going vegan. All people should hear those results, whether they go vegan or not. It is information, which they can use or ignore, but it is an option for treatment of these conditions and it is so powerful that there is hope for these things and that should be celebrated by everyone who has loved ones they care about.

    Going vegan has stripped away my cravings for sugar and caffeine and I never drink soda or eat potato chips anymore. They just lost their appeal.

    No matter what anybody says, I already know that I am getting healthier and I already know that my family and friends are all meat eaters and junk food eaters and soda drinkers and that it is costing them their health.

    So I do celebrate these studies, because it is information, which I can use. You don’t have to use it, but it doesn’t have to threaten you to see the studies.




    7
  14. Meat eaters get chronic kidney disease. Those who start on a whole plant food diet while still healthy do not get chronic kidney disease. Case Closed.




    4
    1. From the mayo clinic causes of chronic kidney disease..
      “Diseases and conditions that cause chronic kidney disease include:
      Type 1 or type 2 diabetes
      High blood pressure
      Glomerulonephritis (gloe-mer-u-low-nuh-FRY-tis), an inflammation of the kidney’s filtering units (glomeruli)
      Interstitial nephritis (in-tur-STISH-ul nuh-FRY-tis), an inflammation of the kidney’s tubules and surrounding structures
      Polycystic kidney disease
      Prolonged obstruction of the urinary tract, from conditions such as enlarged prostate, kidney stones and some cancers
      Vesicoureteral (ves-ih-koe-yoo-REE-tur-ul) reflux, a condition that causes urine to back up into your kidneys
      Recurrent kidney infection, also called pyelonephritis (pie-uh-low-nuh-FRY-tis)




      1
        1. Not necessarily John.
          Ffor instance to my dim recollection a rare but present consequence of frequent untreated urinary tract infections.




          1
          1. Even sepsis a consequence of untreated strep throat can lead to nephritis and possibly chronic kidney disease as a result. Rare but it happens.
            In very general terms I agree with you. We are better off in most all circumstances avoiding meat and dairy if we want healthy kidneys.




            1
            1. This second specific is found commonly in one place in America…..Navajo indian reservations. Lack of treatment for strep throat and consequences of that is common due to distances traveled language barriers and lack of care as result. Mostly as it just take hours and hours to get to a doc and in times of mud spring…it simply is not possible at all.
              This shows up statistically in chronic kidney numbers in this group..




              0
          2. Ron, the most common bacteria isolated from UTIs is the same exact genotype of E.coli found in poultry. Women who eat chicken on a regular basis have a statistically significant increase in the risk of UTIs. Last I checked, chicken is considered animal based protein.




            1
  15. Veterinary drugs including antibiotics, growth hormones, and antihelminths are used for disease control and growth promotion of livestock animals. The safety of livestock products is an ever increasing concern and the prevalence of antimicrobial resistant microorganisms in animal products are increasing every year. Don’t listen to people like Jerry, Mercola, Hyman, and the rest that want you to eat meat. They are just not happy unless you are eating meat. They are obsessed with you condoning their meat eating habits. If they can convince you to eat meat with them, then they will not feel guilty. That’s why Jerry is always posting on this forum because he needs your approval to continue his meat eating habit. But, down deep inside he knows that eating meat increases his risk for cancer, chronic kidney disease, immune diseases, not to mention mad cow disease.




    4
  16. I ponder the discussion about the Paleo Diet and I am going to say that the fact that Dr Wahl’s reversed her MS is something to be celebrated about that diet.

    I used an interview with her to learn how to heal my mitochondria back about the time I tried taking in coconut oil.

    More useful than putting it down, I would want the vegan way to get the nutrition to heal the mitochondria and the vegan plan for MS.

    I am doing vegan and know I won’t switch from one way of eating to another anymore it’s I get MS or have worsening brain problems, but what I am going to acknowledge is that each of the diets out there are based on theories.

    Dr Wahl found a way to walk again and their diet decreases mortality by 25% over a different diet is what they celebrate.

    Vegan accomplishes more than that, but I have known 4 people who had MS and they would probably go Paleo, and I wouldn’t blame them.

    I looked at what she said and pondered that I am an age where I might not get enough coenzyme Q10 in my diet and my body might not produce enough. (forgive me if I am getting the science wrong, that was a long time ago and it is probably her talk which led me to Vegan)

    I never followed her plan, I just learned about mitochondria and she takes about which nutrients I needed.

    I ended up eating veggies and taking NT Factor and B12 and D3 and Omega 3 and it helped.

    She is the one who first told me what B12 actually does in my body and things like I probably didn’t have a functioning kidney or brain without it.

    Her teaching led directly to Dr Greger.




    1
    1. Deb, This link will interest you. It’s Dr McDougall ‘s introductory page about MS. https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/health-science/hot-topics/medical-topics/multiple-sclerosis/ There are links for articles and videos about the phenomenal success Roy Swank MD had with MS patients in his long-term trial. Also, under success stories at the McDougall website you will find testimonies from people who chose whole food plant based eating through the McDougall program and have experienced remission. Dr McDougall is one of the well-known plant based diet doctors.




      2
      1. Wow, thanks Lisa, that is useful to know. I am already eating kale and arugula every day. Now, I just need to get out in the sunlight more often.

        Bummer that it has been raining two days straight.




        0
    1. Please show by some reference source your claim that Africans and Asians on a high protein diet do not have kidney function issues?

      Where are you getting this from?.




      3
  17. Thank you for talking about kidney disease, Dr Greger.

    With CKD 3 might I be best advised to modify my own Daily
    Dozen, especially as regards the three servings of beans and three
    servings of other fruits? I’ve been using the Daily Dozen app since the cookbook was published and I have lost weight which is a good outcome for me.

    Numa




    1
    1. Buster

      No. It doesn’t

      However, even if it did, both non vegetarians and lacto ovo vegetarians consume dairy so how would this demonstrate dairy is healthy or safe?

      The 7th Day Adventist mortality study showed non milk drinking Adventists had a significantly lower mortality risk than lacto ovo vegetarians




      2
  18. I would like to see Dr. Greger make a video about all of the antibiotics they feed chickens in order to make them fat and how these antibiotics create drug resistant strains of bacteria. These antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria then get into the environment through fecal matter, raw meat handling, and also into the actual food we eat. This is another reason to avoid eating meat. You don’t want these drug resistant bacteria to get into your body. Plus, chickens are fed grains that are saturated with ROUND UP pesticides. So, when you add it all up, consumption of meat gives you pesticides, herbicides, hormones, and antibiotics, not to mention the stress that animal protein puts on your kidneys and other bodily functions.




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  19. As someone who is taking medication to lower his blood pressure, I was interested in this quote from the article: “Table sugar and high-fructose corn syrup are associated with increased blood pressure . . . ” I know salt is associated with blood pressure increase, but I was surprised to see sugar implicated as well. Can you direct me toward research that addresses the table sugar-high blood pressure connection?

    Thanks, Ed




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