Image Credit: Pxhere. This image has been modified.

The Best Diet for the Inflammation of Aging

One of the most recognized consequences of aging is a decline in immune function, illustrated by vulnerability to dying from the flu and poor response to vaccinations. But, about 20 years ago, a paper was published showing that the immune cells of 80-year-olds produced significantly more pro-inflammatory signals. As I discuss in my video, How to Counter the Inflammation of Aging, this suggests the worst of both worlds—a decline in the part of the immune system that fights specific infections and an aggravation of nonspecific overreactions that can lead to inflammation. This has since been formalized in a concept referred to as a chronic low-grade inflammation that we now know is typical of aging, which may be responsible for the decline and onset of disease in the elderly.

So, what can we do about it? Inflamm-aging appears to be a major consequence of growing old. Can it be prevented or cured? “The key to successful aging and longevity is to decrease chronic inflammation without compromising an acute response when exposed to pathogens.” How do we do that? Nutrition. What we eat is “probably the most powerful and pliable tool that we have to attain a chronic and systemic modulation of aging process…”

In the first systematic review ever published of the associations between dietary patterns and biomarkers of inflammation, the dietary patterns associated with inflammation were almost all meat-based or so-called Western diet patterns. In contrast, vegetable- and fruit-based, or “healthy,” patterns tended to be inversely associated with inflammation. In general, the more plant-based, the less inflammation.

The reason meat is associated with inflammation may be because of both the animal protein and the animal fat. In the first interventional study that separately evaluated the effects of vegetable and animal protein on inflammatory status, researchers found that “a higher intake of animal origin protein—specifically meat—is associated with higher plasma levels of inflammatory markers in obese adults…”

The reason obesity is associated with increased risk of many cancers may be because of obesity-associated inflammation. Obesity-driven inflammation may stimulate prostaglandin-mediated estrogen biosynthesis in breast tissues. What does that mean? The inflammation may activate the enzyme that allows breast tumors to make their own estrogen via an inflammatory compound called prostaglandin. If you measure the level of prostaglandins in women’s urine, it correlates with breast cancer risk. And what can cause high levels of this inflammatory compound? Smoking, a high-saturated fat diet, and obesity. Why does eating saturated fat lead to prostaglandin production? Because prostaglandins are made from arachidonic acid, and arachidonic acid is a major ingredient in animal fats. To put it another way, animal fats contain arachidonic acid, and our body produces inflammatory compounds, like prostaglandins, with arachidonic acid. Inflammatory compounds can then go on to stimulate breast cancer growth and may also play a role in colon cancer, lung cancer, and head and neck cancer.

In contrast, whole plant foods have anti-inflammatory effects, though some plants are better than others. Folks made to eat five-a-day of high-antioxidant fruits and vegetables, like berries and greens, had a significantly better impact on reducing systemic inflammation and liver dysfunction compared those eating five-a-day of the more common low-antioxidant fruits and veggies, like bananas and lettuce.


You can learn more about arachidonic acid in Chicken, Eggs, and Inflammation and Plant-Based Diets for Improved Mood and Productivity.

More on battling inflammation in:

And more on healthy aging in:

In health,
Michael Greger, M.D.

PS: If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my free videos here and watch my live, year-in-review presentations:

Discuss

Michael Greger M.D., FACLM

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM, is a physician, New York Times bestselling author, and internationally recognized professional speaker on a number of important public health issues. Dr. Greger has lectured at the Conference on World Affairs, the National Institutes of Health, and the International Bird Flu Summit, testified before Congress, appeared on The Dr. Oz Show and The Colbert Report, and was invited as an expert witness in defense of Oprah Winfrey at the infamous "meat defamation" trial.


131 responses to “The Best Diet for the Inflammation of Aging

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          1. Our perception of the world MAY be a cognitive illusion but “Mercury retrograde” IS an optical illusion.

            To be honest, I can never really undertand why people decide to believe this stuff. People have been doing it for uncountable millennia it seems. Perhaps it is nice to be able to blame outside forces for our own errors. There is no real credible evidence for such beliefs though.

            Noweher near as crazy of course but, to my mind, it is a little bit like all those ‘dietary saturated fat and cholesterol are harmless/beneficial’ types, who explain away the mountains of scientific evidence that their opinions are simpy looney by postulating various conspiracies Then there are the ‘suppressed cancer cure’ crackpots who do the same thing.

            These beliefs must appeal to some basic part of the human psyche I suppose. And yet we refer to ourselves as homo sapiens.

            1. My friends and I try to keep a sense of humor about it. Yes, we have noticed more than the usual number of traffic delays, missed phone calls, miscommunications (“What did he/she mean by that strange remark?”), goof-ups of all kind. Just have to go with the flow……

              A couple of days ago the driver of the bus I was taking to the supermarket suddenly stopped and radioed for a backup. He smelled a strange odor coming from the engine….so could some of the rest of us. So we had to vacate the bus and wait 15 minutes for the substitute to pick us up. Annoying events like that, usually. True, other planets go retro too, but I’ve noticed that most people pay more attention to the Mercury retro. (which, of course, does not literally move backward). I refuse to fly on a plane during those transits, but that’s just moi. Only if it’s truly necessary.

              However, and we’ve noticed this too, people from your past can come into your life. You may get a call from somebody you haven’t heard from in a long time. Hopefully, it’s somebody you like. :-)

              True, nothing should be taken so seriously; it’s said we individually and collectively create our “illusive” reality, after all!

              1. Yeah, OK, but if all that is true, why does everybody die?

                If we create our own reality, why would we make ourselves sick, poor, ugly and ultimately dead?

                And doesn’t that belief contradict our other belief that we are all strongly affected/controlled by the stars (Mercury retrograde and all that).

                  1. AND, when you look within for answers, you may be guided to the right person….book….website….etc. who will help you find your answers. “Seek and ye shall find.” :-)

            2. I thank you so much about the recent posting of comparative nutritional value of top beans-I lost my biodome due to antibiotics for one year of use in my 2os and have tried to restore this as well as bring better mental health back into my life. Beans that cause burning and digestion to slow down can really help with stronger digestion. Lentils and Chickpeas are the ones I was thinking would get the best value on meals because of the high quality of nutrition and fiber. I am pretty sure that there is unidentified nutritional benefits for these foods that will come out some time later. I like the fiber in humus that can give you all the fiber you need in one day and nutrition isn’t half bad.

    1. Hey, David. The flu vaccines usually suck, I completely agree. But that’s because there are actually a multitude of flu viruses and the vaccine makers are making an educated guess on which ones will be the worst. On the other hand, some vaccines have been a huge success and have been very effective. Have you met anyone recently sick with smallpox? Rinderpest? Polio? Vaccines have saved hundreds of thousands or even millions of people from being killed or disabled from these infectious diseases.

    2. Yes, polio and smallpox were just ‘fakes’ invented by Big Pharma to get people to buy their injections and drugs I suppose. Probably cervical cancer too?

      ‘Australia is on track to become the first country to practically eradicate cervical cancer.
      A national school-based vaccination programme has seen a sharp decline in human papillomavirus (HPV) infections, which cause over 99 per cent of cervical cancer cases.
      Since 2007, all girls aged 12 or 13 in Australia have been offered a free HPV vaccination. A decade later, the proportion of 18- to 24-year-old women with HPV has fallen from 22.7 to 1.5 per cent.’

      https://www.newscientist.com/article/2162906-australias-cervical-cancer-vaccine-might-eradicate-the-disease/

    3. This article came out 10 years ago. Since then, I’ve heard that many other medical professionals refuse to get vaccinated. What do they know that the average population does not? (I’ve heard the ingredients in the vaccines today have changed hugely since the 1950s. Will try to find some links.) Anyway:

      https://abcnews.go.com/Health/ColdandFluNews/story?id=6418974&page=1

      https://thepeopleschemist.com/reasons-dont-vaccinate-children-vaccine-supporters-shouldnt-give/

      I’d be curious to know if TG or Dr. G. have the “requisite” annual flu and pneumonia vaccines. (Personally, I’ve never had either. I’m afraid I’ll jinx my on-going good health if I ever do succumb.)

      1. I don’t do the flu or pneumonia vaccines either, but I work in a place where I don’t get exposed to a lot of things.

        That will be changing this year when the 7-year-old is around.

        Probably still won’t get either because I haven’t gotten sick in quite a few years.

        I am testing out the Nutritional Yeast Beta Glucans.

      2. Medical profesionals are just as human and fallible as the rest of us. In my experience many nurses and other health care workers smoked. Many doctors and nurses are drug addicts. Doctors also have the highest suicde rate of any profession. You might just as well ask of them “What do they know that the average population does not?”

        As for flu and pneumonia vaccines, I never bothered. They were often ineffective, usually cost you money and time and so what if you got a flu? If you re young nf healthy, you shrug it off in a week or two if you get it all. This wasn’t just an opinion, I based my decision on the Cochrane Reviw of flu vaccines in healthy adults. Here’s the latest 2018 version.. Some of the previous ones found no real benefits.
        https://www.cochrane.org/CD001269/ARI_vaccines-prevent-influenza-healthy-adults

        However, now I am over 65, I look at the Cochrane Review of influenza vaccines for the elderly. This is also less than fully enthusuastic about vaccines but estimates that there is a small benefit. Given that influenza is potentially more serious in older people, I have begun getting an annual flu vaccine but it’s a pretty lineball decision.
        https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD004876.pub4/abstract

        I made the same decision regarding the pneumonia vaccine. While I don’t to my knowledge have COPD, I did smoke for most of my life and pneumonia is still a leading cause of death, especially in older people.
        https://www.cochrane.org/CD001390/AIRWAYS_do-injectable-pneumococcal-vaccines-prevent-pneumonia-people-copd
        https://www.cochrane.org/CD000422/ARI_vaccination-for-preventing-pneumococcal-infection-in-adults

        And if yu want reliable information on vaccination issues, I’s start with the CDC and Cochrane rather than first checking out crank websites.
        https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/index.html
        https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm
        https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/common-faqs.htm

        1. Aw come on, TG. Crank websites? I too am over 65, but I still will not get a vaccine. (Unlike you, however, I’ve never smoked)

          As I’m always crowing (knock on wood), I haven’t had a bad cold/flu since the winter of 2000 when I probably partied too long into the night of a New Year’s/Century’s party.

          Seems to me, as you smoked much of your life, you might be concerned about getting lung cancer. I know a few people who, even though they gave up smoking thirty years earlier, they did die from lung cancer nevertheless.

          1. Smoking is estimated to kill way more people via cardiovascular disease than via lung cancer. Just like cardiovascular disease kills many more people than breast cancer. But, true, we always seem far omre worried about cancer risk.

            However, I didn’t smoke cigarettes but cigars and pipes where the smoke is not actvely inhaled.

            But since I ate a more or less standard Western diet and drank alcohol regularly for a long time, I have more to worry about than just the risk from long term tobacco consumption. But, thank my lucky stars (as you might say), I am still here and not needing any prescription meds other than daily eye drops.

        2. The Wall Street Journal and a couple of others did some stories a few years back on the present ability of pharm to develop flu vaccines that will protect from most all flu viruses.
          It is seemingly now technologically possible when in the past it was not.
          It is simply a matter of cost, forgetting the actual number now but it was quite high. To research develop test and market the vaccine.
          Quite below however the amount the companies spend in advertising each year. I do remember that nugget.

          And me thinks as the vaccine would compete with many of the treatments present vaccine every year and treatment for symptoms the industry offers there is simply no motive to provide one.
          Until or unless we have another early 20th century pandemic and people governments start to demand one be created.

          The old adage there are to many to protect from is seemingly no longer true.

      3. I don’t like getting flu shots as much as anyone likes getting shots. BUT, in my decades long life, I’ve personally known TWO people who died of the flu–one in her 40’s and one in his 50’s. Neither was otherwise sick or had compromised health. This motivates me every year to line up and get my shot. And you’re right, Tom, I’m old enough to remember people being afraid of getting polio. I got my polio “shots” and smallpox vaccination as a kid, as well. One’s personal experiences do affect one’s behavior….

  1. I don’t understand. The last sentence states:

    “Folks made to eat five-a-day of high-antioxidant fruits and vegetables, like berries and greens, had a significantly better impact on reducing systemic inflammation and liver dysfunction compared those eating five-a-day of the more common low-antioxidant fruits and veggies, like bananas and lettuce.”

    Are lettuces not greens?

    1. A comment I recently heard in a podcast by Dr. Lisle had me wondering about the passage you’ve mentioned. In it he indicated that improved health is not achieved by eating more colorful fruits and vegetables as opposed to the more bland ones (presumably because they contain more antioxidants) but that all unprocessed fruits and vegetables promote health as opposed to processed and too much animal based foods which detract from health. The key is to remove all foods that detract from health rather than look for the optimal food which promotes health. He made the interesting observation that water fasting where all food is removed (good and more importantly bad) often results in the best improvements of lasting conditions.

      Based on this line of thinking it would have been interesting to have performed the study mentioned above on life long unprocessed plant eaters to see if they would have achieved the same results in terms of reducing systemic inflammation when comparing high versus low antioxidant unprocessed plant foods.

      1. Pondering that.

        I will let you know what I think after my dog gets healed of cancer.

        I have been pondering it because my relatives wouldn’t eat high antioxidant vegetables, so it has caused me to wonder about whether intermittent fasting or low-antioxidant vegetables would be better.

        I think I just got my brother to add in some of the vegetables, which only killed Cancer by less than 50%. Yes, the “SAD fallback vegetables” from when people actually are doing well, but they aren’t all the way over to Kale or Cabbage or Cruciferous yet.

        What finally worked was telling him the Purdue dog study, just adding raw vegetables to a dog’s food 3 times per week lowered the risk of Cancer by 90%.

        I also told him that I read about a holistic vet telling dog owners to give their dogs Wobenzyme N to heal Cancer and how it worked for one woman with two different types of dog cancers.

        I gave him the choice of enzyme pills or raw fruit and vegetables and he chose the SAD fallback vegetables.

        I want him off the Colchicine.

        I don’t know that the things he will be eating will help all that much, but I still consider it progress.

  2. There is a website “inflammationfactors.com” where for $20 you can download the pro-inflammation/anti-inflammation factors for 2,500 foods and counting. Some of the most anti-inflammatory foods on the list are fish and shellfish. The healthiest diet, IMO, is pesca-vegetarian. I am 78 YO. I have been doing a hs-CRP test since 2011. All my results are between <0.2 and <0.3.

    My diet guidelines are as follows: 1. eat a diet that provides the most nutrition for the least calories, 2.) only consume plant foods where the "total carbohydrate" to "total fiber" ratio is 5 to 1 or less. 3.) Eat a diet rich in omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids, such that a blood test reveals an omega-6 to omega-3 ratio no greater than 3 to 1. This should include foods that contain omega-3s DHA and EPA, which is where fish and shellfish come in. 4.) Eat foods that are fermented and provide probiotics like natto, which is Japanese fermented soybeans that have the highest level of vitamin K-2, a vitamin that may improve bone and heart health. Miso, yogurt, kefir and some aged cheeses also contain vitamin K-2 and should be eaten in modest amount with a piece of fruit, not bread (bread has a TC to TF ratio much higher than 5 to 1). Pears go great with cheese.

    To your good health. I thank Dr Greger for all his great advice.

    1. Ronald, thanks for sharing your approach. Wondering if your CRP was ever high? Mine is and I wonder how long it will take to go down to an acceptable range with a WFPB diet or the pescavegetarian you are following.

      1. I am a retired finance professional, which means I keep meticulous records, including blood test results. My first hs CRP test was Sept 2013. I’ve had nine since then, the last being in December 2017. None were above <0.3 and all of the recent ones have been <0.2. I read a great deal about two subjects, human health and the health of the planet. There is a parrallel of sorts: cholesterol has been demonized when it comes to human health and carbon dioxide has been demonized when it comes to the planet's health.

        I am much more keenly concerned about inflammation levels than cholesterol levels. Consequently, I lead a lifestyle that is anti-inflammatory, which means eschewing stressful situations, getting plenty of exercise (in the gym 5 days a week, lifting weights and doing interval training), get plenty sunshine (work in the garden most days a week whenever it's below 100 degrees), and consume a very anti-inflammatory diet, which, IMO, must include cold water fish high in omega-3 PUFA. I am aware of the toxin risk, but sardines are very low in the food chain and high in omega-3s, and Alaskan wild salmon, according to tests done by the government, are very low in mercury and are also high in omega-3. As I indicated in my comment above, I am pretty disciplined about consuming foods from plants where the TC to TF ratio is 5 to 1 or less. I eat a lot of leafy greens like dandelions, chard, broccoli, leaf lettuce, beet greens and others. I always steam and dress with EVOO and lemon juice. I also always drink what's left of the steaming liquid.

        I purchased the inflammation factors for the 2,500 foods that I mentioned previously. It comes on an Excel in an Excel spreadsheet format. I extracted from the 2,500 foods those that I consume on a separate worksheet. The average of all the inflammation factors for the foods I consume came out to positive 83 (i.e., very anti-inflammatory diet when one considers that the goal is zero, according to those doctors whose advice I've read on the internet) and the TC to TF ratio 3 to 1. I suspect that the number is even higher anti-inflammation, because many of the foods on my list I eat only occasionally, while my day-in-and-day-out diet tends to be even more anti-inflammatory. In addition, because I am single and hate to waste food, I generally finish the entire bunch of whatever green leafy vegetable I have prepared. Last night it was dandelions. Tomorrow night chard. Tonight is wild Alaska sockeye salmon night. I eat natto Mon., Wed, Fri. miso on Tues and Thurs. I eat to live, not live to eat. Food is medicine for me. Natto is awful tasting for me but it is very high in vitamin K-2. You can do your own research on the internet about K-2.

        That's a very long answer to your question. Sorry about that, but writing is exercise for the brain so whenever I have an opportunity to write I take it.

        1. Your lifestyle is fascinating. I, too, eat to live rather than the other way around, although I don’t do/eat some of the things you do…. You didn’t write too much in my opinion. 99.9% of folks would not eat what I do.

        1. Hello Crzaycat,
          Quick reply: C-RP stands for C-reactive protein, which is a marker of inflammation. hs-CRP stands for high-sensitivity C-RP, and enables a measure of chronic inflammation. People with high hs-CRP levels (above 2.0 mg/L) have increased risk for developing cardiovascular disease. The standard C-RP test is not helpful for measuring cardiovascular risk, because it is increased by ANY type of inflammation.

          Yes, the hs-CRP test is usually covered by insurance. It is not recommended (by the USPSTF nor by the Amer. Acad. of Family Physicians) as a screening test at any age, because it is not specific enough — i.e. there are other reasons it could be elevated besides high cardiac risk. [USPSTF means US Preventive Services Task Force].

          Hope this helps.
          Dr.Jon
          PhysicianAssistedWellness.com
          Health Support Volunteer for NutritionFacts.org

    2. So you are relying on a secret proprietary formula/algorithm developed and distributed by a person or persons unknown to provide an accurate and comprehensive assessment of the inflammatory and anti-inflammatory qualities of food. And you paid for the privilege of doing so.

      Some people would call that buying a pig in a poke. And you are a retired finance professional?

      1. I think I can easily afford $20.

        A lot of the numbers make perfect sense to me. Those foods that are anti-inflammatory and that I have done research on have high amounts of omega-3 PUFA or a low TC to TF ratio. That makes perfect sense. Those foods that are inflammatory have high levels of omega-6 PUFA or a high TC to TF ratio. Again, that makes sense. There are other foods that are highly anti-inflammatory where the omega-6 to omega-3 ratio is inconsequential as is the TC to TF ratio; foods like ginger, turmeric, garlic and serrano green chili peppers. Since those foods with which I am familiar appear directionally correct, I will take it on faith that those food with which I am not so familiar are also directionally correct. Until something better comes along, I will give some credence to their value system.

        I suspect that they may weight the anti-inflammatory/inflammatory components of foods by a factor that may relate to the amount of research done regarding the components. There is a lot of research on the anti-inflammatory benefit of omega-3 PUFA, so I think they put a lot of anti-inflammatory weight food high in this food component.

        Yes, I am a retired finance professional that is rather well off. Absolutely, no stress there and I get to manage a rather large investment portfolio, which is excellent for brain health. I think I am doing quite well physically too. I recently had a 256 slice CT scan of my heart arteries and aorta and doppler scan of my carotid arteries. All are clear and exhibit good blood flow.

        During interval training, I can get my heart rate to the maximum for my age. I do this 5 days a week. When I am finished with my cardio workout, I have to change my shirt as it is soaked with sweat. I can leg press over 500 lbs and bench press (10 reps) my body weight — 160 lbs. My waist circumference is 33 inches and body fat content 10.65 percent, based upon a GE DEXA Scanner. I must be doing something right.

        Based upon your short note, you appear to me a rather grumpy, out-of-shape old man.

          1. Yes, because I put a lot of effort into maintaining a healthy lifestyle. There are rewards beyond just being healthy. Participating in sports, for example. Hiking mountain trails that are often off limits to folks my age. Not having to ask younger people to assist with a slightly difficult task. This provides one with a sense of pride and independence. I’m sure there are health benefits to that as well.

          1. Thank you M.

            Humour is always welcome even if it is sarcasm.

            However, I was under the impression that it was someone else who had all the answers or is that you?

            Personally, I think that Ronald’s dietary and exercise regime is excellent. However, the decision to buy a black box system from anonymous developers/distributors seemed odd for a seasoned financial professional. Most financial preofessionals – in my admittedly limited exerience – simpy laugh at the idea of buying blak box systems.

              1. I am sure you did.

                Perhaps you would care to enlighten the rest of us on your undoubtedly superior approach to understanding matters of health and nutrition?

      1. Is that a good thing? I eat warmed-up Ezekiel sprouted tortillas with a smear of my everloving nothing-added peanut butter.

        (Although, lately I’ve been buying the salted PB. My recent blood test showed my sodium level just under what’s considered “normal.”)

        1. YR, I was replying to Ronald P Abate who expressed concern that bread has TC to TF ratio greater than 5:1. I use those tortillas to make endless variations of wraps. By the time I load them with all kinds of veggies the TC to TF ratio shrinks even more.

          1. I was surprised to hear that people had a hard time finding bread with lower than 5:1 TC/TF. The bread I sometimes eat that I think is too fluffy is Dave’s Killer Bread-21 Whole Grains, which has a 4.4:1 ratio. My favorite is a German-style whole rye bread from Aldi that has a 3.1 ratio.

  3. Is there a place, or does anyone have info on Hydrolyzed collagen ? Another Dr. (chiropratic) throws roses at it,(he sells it) many testimonials, but I can’t find any reputable studies on it. Dr Axe has quite a write up, (he also sells it) but when I asked how many Daltons–they said they didn’t know–hmnn.
    According to the Dr his has about 3,000 so very absorbable. Helps nails, skin, prostate, hair, muscle, etc.

    Yet, can’t find anything –help !
    Thanks

        1. Months ago, Dr. Greger mentioned that he could do two or three nutritional websites.

          Researching PubMed only and one topic of Cancer, I found out he is more than right.

          I have found too many products, which were tested against Cancer.

          It has to be a tough job for these men to choose topics.

          If he hasn’t done it, most likely the studies on it are not high enough yet.

        2. Well, it is not a whole food and, of course, it is an animal product since collagen is the connective tissue fround in all animals.

          I can see why it wouldn’t figure highly on the to-do lists of those individuals.

  4. The oregabiotic, olive leaf extract, berberine, D-Mannose and CBD oil have made a huge difference in the symptoms of my dog’s infection.

    I thought it was much better after the first night of D-Mannose, but some of the symptoms came back, but ramping it up a notch really seems to be working.

    Unfortunately, my dog is sick of pills.

    I am so happy that he waited 9 weeks to start giving me a hard time.

    This morning, he took the first one in his mouth, then, looked at me and dropped it on the floor.

    I got him to take his steroids, but I am going to be slowly weaning him off of them.

    I have been pondering at what point to stop this process and he is going to be the one to tell me.

    He still looks good, but I know that he is saying, “Enough is enough.”

    He is still eating well, but also will not eat food with meds in it either.

    I feel like we have entered a “Green Eggs and Ham” scenario.

    1. I laugh though, because he loves, loves, loves CBD oil, so I can get a tiny pill pocket, put a steroid pill at the bottom and put a few drops CBD oil and he doesn’t know that it helps with Cancer and antibiotic resistance, so I still win.

      1. Though I think introducing CBD Oil might have made him want that and not all the other stinking pills. I didn’t try it, but there might be a pleasure center type of thing going on. Looks like it anyway.

    2. Deb, I’m watching your posts with interest to see how this will all turn out with regard to your dog. You never know if some of what you are doing will spark an interest in something for people, as well.

      1. Thanks Liisa!

        He is still my tail-wagging, smiley dog!

        Feed your dog raw vegetables!

        A ninety percent decreased risk of Cancer is a terrible thing to waste!

        I ordered a new infrared camera, because my vet doesn’t want me to have him scanned and some of us know that he is the vet I will want when it genuinely is end of life, but he doesn’t understand the food as medicine part.

        He got annoyed with me for trying to overcome imaginary untested antibiotic resistance when the WBC could also be elevated from inflammation or a growing tumor,

        Some of us are going to find out.

        1. I am so interested to see what will happen myself.

          I have read the enzyme theories and various bad guy critter theories and acid system theories of Cancer and T. Colin Campbell’s theories animal products and the vegetable oil theory and I am getting to see what happens.

          This is genuinely a gift to me. Precious time learning about the disease, which has killed so many of my relatives.

          And it makes me love this site even more for introducing me to all of the research and researchers.

          The first Dr Greger video that I saw was the one where vegans were dying and I laugh, because if he hadn’t been funny and if he hadn’t used studies, I would not be here right now.

          I honestly still didn’t know his name after that video and had to Google search funny vegan doctor with glasses.

          1. I had someone contact me yesterday asking if I still had the Hill-Rom fancy fancy hospital bed, which I bought when my grandmother was dying.
            That persons friend has Pancreatic Cancer.

            People everywhere around me have Cancer now.

            I have reached that age.

    1. I think he does it because everybody asks him about it.

      He gets asked about Keto and Fish and Fat-based diets all the time.

      1. If you are trying to say that he is biased…

        I think it is a: which came first the Dr. Greger not eating chicken or the studies about eggs type of a thing?

        I highly suspect that it is the results of the studies, which have biased him.

        His grandmother was part of Pritikin, and yet I saw a video of him when he was younger and heavier and had much more hair and I suspect it was when he was still eating hamburgers back before the Ornish study.

        Not sure of that, but I suspect it. I didn’t contact the phone number on the video to ask, but I found it charming that a phone number was given.

        1. I feel he is biased regardless of any study. A long healthy life depends on many factors. Where you live, your gender, your mental health, your family background, proper exercise your entire life, proper rest, and diet.

            1. If he is biased, it’s toward a model I am on board with. I suspect that 20 years from now, his model will be so accepted that almost nobody would consider it bias. Are those who omit discussing studies that show smoking causes no harm to the lungs biased? There is massive preexisting bias against plant-based eating because of powerful and unethical campaigns carried out by the meat, dairy and egg industries.

                1. Scott,

                  I agree with you that I don’t mind him being biased toward a belief system based on studies.

                  I do want him to be fair toward other ways of eating, if the data ever changes, but only then.

                  People accuse him of cherry-picking and I will say that every time I go to the grocery store and look at the fruit, I cherry pick, and when I look at the fruit in my refrigerator, I also cherry pick.

                  When I go to PubMed, every single time, I cherry pick because I don’t want to get thrown off by the bad cherries in the bunch.

                  I am trying to heal my dog of Cancer and when I go to PubMed I find that every single fruit and vegetable and herb and spice and mushroom after mushroom after mushroom has been tested against Cancer and somehow I have to figure out which ones are the real deal.

                  Part of the bias does come from the reality that there is so much information and misinformation out there.

                  Two more of my friends went Keto this week. One went Keto with a company, which sells her foods and a scale, which tells them if she loses weight and they will be contacting her every day. I still don’t understand the difference between Atkins and Keto, except marketing is better for Keto, because they don’t have an unhealthy looking fat man at the helm.

                  I am worried about how many of these people will end up having heart attacks or getting MS or having strokes.

                  Does anybody know what the difference between Atkins and Keto is?

                  The good part of the night was coming home to my dog and I gave him dog food, thinking I should pull back because he didn’t want pills.

                  He ate the dog food in ten seconds and then he went over to the refrigerator and started begging me for raw fruits and vegetables.

                  He ate broccoli, tri-colored peppers, a little bit of artichoke, one ring of pineapple, one sweet potato and as much watermelon as I would let him have.

                  He loves fruits and vegetables.

                  He is still alive after 9 weeks and is still hungry and still wanting to go outside and still loves having his tummy rubbed.

                  Thanking God for every single moment and for allowing me to see how vegan raw fruits and veggies and enzymes stack up against Cancer and for seeing how the natural products stack up against an infection.

                  1. If they called it Atkins, they would probably have to pay royalties to the Atkins Diet empire.

                    However, they are both low carb and high fat diets. Atkins though has been around for much longer and has a number of phases. It is also a proprietary approach so no on else can sell it except the Atkins organisation and its licensees.

                    1. Around here, Keto is more popular than Atkins ever was.

                      I feel like they shook off the Atkins shackles and now the studies are separated from the risks of Atkins.

                      It feels like everybody around me is doing it.

                      I do have one elderly friend who is doing moderation and that makes me happy.

  5. Emma
    Aug 9, 3:54 AM EDT

    Hi. My grandma has fibromyalgia, diabetes and arthritis. She eats a quite standard american diet, healthier at times. Im wondering if you have any recomendations on how to reduce her pain? She is loaded on meds and shots, all with following side effects…

    1. Emma,

      Going low-fat Whole Food Plant Based might be enough to get rid of her pain.

      Dr. Greger has videos on neuropathy going away in a few days.

      He has videos on how the clogged arteries affect the nerves causing pain.

      If you look at his grandmother story, she went from wheelchair bound to walking 10 miles a day in a short period of time.

      Dr. Barnard talked about doing his study and people didn’t just get over the Diabetes, some of them got over arthritis and other pain issues. Inflammation is one of the contributors to pain.

      Dr. McDougall and Dr. Furhman also have those types of testimonies.

      In my mind, it would be figuring out which plant based foods she would eat and then look at the programs from:

      Dr. Greger
      Dr. McDougall
      Dr. Barnard
      Dr. Furhman
      Dr. Esselstyn
      C. Colin Campbell
      Forks Over Knives

      There are other programs, but that is already probably too many.

      Dr. Barnard is the one who uses transition foods.
      The rest of the doctors aim toward specific things.

      Dr. Greger would be adding in foods from his Daily Dozen and for some people “adding in” is easier than giving up foods.

      Dr. McDougall is the Starch Solution – and if she loves potatoes, that would be a good one for her, but would probably terrify her, because Diabetics don’t know how to figure out if their blood work will get worse.

      Dr. Fuhrman is good if she likes green and yellow vegetables and doesn’t like potatoes.

      Each of them has cookbooks and plans.

    2. Hi I’m a health support volunteer. Thanks for your great question.
      We would absolutely recommend getting off the standard American diet. This can improve all of her conditions. A low fat, plant based diet has been shown to reverse diabetes. It can also reduce inflammation and help hugely with arthritis:
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/preventing-arthritis-2/
      https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/arthritis/

      Diabetes:
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-not-to-die-from-diabetes/

      Fibromyalgia:
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/fibromyalgia-vs-vegetarian-raw-vegan-diets/

      A whole food plant based diet is good for everyone.
      All the best to you and your grandmother.
      NurseKelly

  6. I am vegan but I have a very difficult time sticking to a whole food diet. I was a strict meat and potatoes type before I became vegan. I have never cared for bread, pasta, vegetables or ethnic fare. I find myself trying to imitate the texture and flavor of meat even after 8 years without it. This means that I eat seitan, chewy tofurky and even the new Impossible burger whenever I can. Of course, I was very thin until I switched to a vegan diet. Now I am much heavier. Very discouraging.
    Does anyone have any advise for me? If it weren’t for the ethical issues involved in meat consumption, I would probably go back to having meat as I felt better and looked a LOT better.

    1. Taxi the impossible burger due to nutritional make up is about the worst thing a person could eat.
      The amount of sat fat and fat and the questionable ingredients to include GMO make about any other fake meat burger a better bet.

      On not getting or staying fat…my simple recommendation is to up veggie protein. I find it is not fat nor carbs that leaves me feeling full but invariably protein content. So every meal should include some beans or other type of protein in sufficient quantity to provide a full feeling.

      I think the bad face put on protein is mostly a bad animal protein face with the possible exception of soy in large amounts five or more servings per day..

      So I strongly recommend that. And if you are not exercising you need to. Dr Greger does all of his Q and A’s on a treadmill for a point…it is a necessary part of a healthy lifestyle. If you cannot exercise with intensity you must exercise with long duration.

      1. Personally if I don’t have the protein in a meal I will always make up with some other content to far exceed the caloric content if I had consumed the protein.
        I really think this is the unrecognized component people are missing and what they really are craving. Beans in every meal is not such a bad thing, or some other thing with protein.

        You have to be willing to screw the idea that all protein is bad and plant protein is not separate in that distinction. I find little to recommend plant protein except perhaps in gross excess is bad for us. Which is why populations which consume beans in some form are usually the healthiest of eaters living longer than most.

        1. Yes…..If not for ethical or moral concerns abstracted.
          It is like a ribeye with a gmo component added…. a special ingredient which is lab created and GMO in origin. Which is why Bill Gates is a major funder he is a big supporter of GMO’s
          Sat fat fat it just sucks all the way around.

          A person who seemed like a sales person was on this site promoting the stuff a bit ago.Which is why I bothered to look into it. Heme Iron was a initial big concern for me. It is normally found only in meat but this stuff produces heme by GMO yeast. How they make it juicy.
          Nothing recommends it.

          1. From womans health..”Rather than grow bushels of soybeans, the scientists at Impossible Foods have genetically-engineered yeast to produce heme, which has raised some red flags for people wary of GMOs. While the company has performed tests, and the product is generally recognized as safe, the FDA told the New York Times in 2017 that, “FDA believes that the arguments presented, individually and collectively, do not establish the safety of SLH (soy leghemoglobin) for consumption”

            How about a nice serving of soy leghemoglobin in your burger? What a joke.

        2. Scott,

          I don’t believe any human being knows the answer to your question.

          They are doing a brand new science with a food ingredient, which has never been used before.

          It hasn’t been tested yet.

          1. Don’t eat them often, but I’ll stick to my homemade veggie burgers made from zucchini, black-eyed peas and polenta…among other things.

            1. Ok keep in mind other than GMO’s this is for only a 3 oz burger. WH again.
              .”Here’s the full nutritional breakdown of one three-ounce Impossible Burger patty:
              220 calories
              13 g fat (10 g saturated)
              430 mg sodium
              20 g protein
              5 g carbohydrates
              0 g fiber
              Less than 1 g sugar

              While the total calories and fat look reasonable, a serving is only three ounces. “

              And check out the sodium. No one should eat that.

              1. Slightly smaller than a McDonald’s hamburger.

                About the size of a Boca Burger

                BOCA Original Vegan Burgers (per 3.5-oz. burger): 120 Calories (5 Calories from Fat); 1g Total Fat (2% DV), 0g Sat Fat (0% DV), 0g Trans Fat; 0mg Cholesterol (0% DV); 380mg Sodium (16% DV); 9g Total Carb (3% DV), 6g Fiber (24% DV), 0g Sugars; 19g Protein; 0% Vitamin A; 0% Vitamin C; 8% Calcium; 15% Iron.

              1. Sure. The base recipe is linked below, but I don’t think it’s from a plant-based site. I’ve honestly never really checked out this site to know for sure. Be warned: it’s not WFPB. There’s added oil. I’m not an accomplished cook or foodie by any means, but this is by far the best veggie burger recipe that I’ve tried among several. I could add more goodies to boost the nutrition, but I’m not sure how it would affect the end product, so I haven’t ever. I substitute black-eyed peas for cannellini beans. I tend to think they are better suited. I just drain the grated zucchini on paper towels and don’t salt it. That undoubtedly gets rid of some nutrition I realize, but I suspect it’s important. I use about a quarter less oil and salt than called for. Probably troubling to many here, but I don’t eat these often at all. I use a tiny bit of sriracha sauce instead of the chilis. I use a bit less garlic and more chopped parsley.
                Baking it awhile and then letting it cool in the fridge probably makes all the difference. At that point, if the consistency is still too moist, I’ll mix in a bit of cooled oatmeal (cooked down to almost a paste). As an American, I’m not exactly sure what 100 grams of polenta is! From there, I make patties and freeze them between sheets of waxed paper. Best to let them thaw before cooking. Yeah, a bit more oil to pan fry and I do use the cast iron to do so. These don’t taste like meat by any means, but unlike many veggie burgers, they have a suitable consistency; and they are quite good as far as I’m concerned. I think the verbiage on the recipe page has good advice about making veggie burgers in general.

                https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/how-to-make-a-the-best-veggie-burger

                1. Hey thanks, Scott. Yummies for the tummy! I too will do a little tweaking of the recipe. Will cut waaaay back on the oil and salt, for instance. Should be an interesting undertaking (gotta get some waxed paper, for starters).

                  Not sure, but am thinking 100g of polenta equals one cup (?).

                    1. Barb, thanks for the conversion link. I have yet to buy some of the ingredients (might do so today) like polenta & beans, etc. I also plan to make just half the recipe.

                      Ah, the excitement of blazing a new trail!

                    2. Scott, this is a relatively “old” thread, but just in case you’re reading:

                      I made the burgers today. Yesterday I cooked and refrigerated the polenta a day or two ahead, as is suggested. We’re also told to refrigerate the combined glob (as I lovingly call it), after we bake it in the oven.

                      Well, I certainly did do some tweaking — as I said I would do — but by the time it was ready to come out of the oven, I decided to just chow down on some of it for tonight’s dinner. Especially ’cause it had smelled so delicious while it was baking away.

                      Excellent, very tasty! I pretty much threw the main ingredients together, although I would have used the black beans like you did. I spotted the cannellini beans right off the bat at Stop&Shop, and as I’d never eaten them before, I was curious.

                      So, as I halved the recipe, there are now two burgers taking up residence in my refrigerator freezer. (The zucchini grating is the only “work” involved in making these.) It was fun…and challenging. :-)

                    3. I’m glad these came out okay, YR. I would have hated for them to flop on you because they’re not exactly the easiest things to make.

          2. I think the things I would look at would be:

            Heme
            IGF-1
            Fats
            Cholesterol
            acid
            toxic chemicals

            Dr. Greger did a Heme video. You can watch that.

            But nobody knows what the soy root will do and soy is such a complicated food that I really can’t even guess. It is a “heal you” or “kill you faster” type of food and GMO is generally in the kill you faster category.

            Not losing weight, makes me wonder about fat content.

            Soy can stimulate IGF-1, similar to meat in high quantity, so that would be something to think about before you have seconds.

            I suspect it wouldn’t have meat viruses, which would make it better than meat.

            I am not sure if they have tested the bacteria for good versus bad bacteria yet, but someone probably will. GMO tends to have bad bacteria, so that would be a factor.

            They say that it is nutritionally essentially equal to meat from a cow, but I think they just said, “No cholesterol” and that would be better than meat.

            It is probably less acidic than meat, but that is my guess.

            They are using languages like “compounds” and that doesn’t give me a good sense of whether it would have anything toxic in it or not. Pesticides would be obesigenic would be an example.

            1. Okay, so Ron added Sodium content.

              I will also add “Pleasure Trap” because if you are eating those and gained weight, something is off.

              Watching the scientists, they used every flavor and sight and smell enhancement possible to make it be so close to meat. These people are paid millions of dollars to look at how the things they add stimulate the brain. It is something so well studied in that respect that I know it will be designed to be addictive. Dr. Barnard would be the one I would look at for information on that.

              I will tell you this much, I am looking at it for my brothers, because they love meat so much and if it doesn’t have cholesterol or isn’t acidic… or doesn’t have the same amount of saturated fat, I would love for them to switch…..

              But it just is still an unknown equation.

              Hopefully, there will be studies on it soon.

                1. Beyond Burger according to Consumer Reports

                  “As for nutrition, a 4-ounce patty has 290 calories, 22 grams of fat, 5 grams saturated fat, 20 grams of protein, and 450 milligrams of sodium. That’s about 14 percent fewer calories than you’d get in the same serving of a regular ground-beef patty and about half the saturated fat. However, the Beyond patty comes with just over five times more sodium and 23 percent less protein.”

                  Sodium is one of those things, which Dr. Greger has given powerful videos on.

                  I can’t remember the whole point he made right this second, but I do remember that he made the point the week after Dr. McDougall caused me to eat some and Dr. Greger got me to be concerned again.

                  The Food Revolution Summit used a statistic from 2012 possibly 2012. Whenever the study was, they looked for the highest correlation with every death in America in that year and high sodium was the single highest factor.

                  Dr. McDougall thinks it is the things you put salt on, which caused that.

                  Dr. Greger did a video, which swayed me back to his side.

                  Again, not sure what the point he made was, but it was something as clear as the paralyzing the endothelial by even good oils.

                  Laughing, it is one thirty in the morning here and I am not going to remember.

                  If you eat these high sodium things, something bad might happen to you.

                  Not sure what.

                2. Way less, I like beyond meat to add to various things.3gms fat to a serving 13 gm’s protein.

                  But my favorite burger now is amy’s quarter pounder..19gm’s protein 4 gm’s fat .5 saturated. A little high on sugar 6 gms but balanced a bit by 6 gms of fiber. Not dry cooks up well.I don’t mind a little sat fat, but would not go beyond 5gms daily at most from all sources.
                  Certainly not 10 Gm’s from one source,

                  1. Basically, what happened is this- I was a meat eater for many years. I ate ribeyes, ground beef, pork chops, etc. I only ate bread on Thanksgiving and that was a roll with butter. I never really ate veggies either except as side dishes to go withe main dish. I am 5’6” and I weighed 110-120 pounds. I gained a lot of weight with each pregnancy and promptly lost it within a year postpartum and nursing. I never ate sugar or desserts but I had an occasional ice cream cone in summer. I felt fine and was sick with colds or flu on occasion but nothing serious.
                    I went vegan after learning of the treatment of farm animals. Since then I have never felt energetic or happy eating. I loved the taste of meat and things like scalloped potatoes or english peas and peaches. I believe that trading meat for soy based proteins is healthy and a proper diet for human beings. And, in fact, I am never sick with those pesky colds. However- I have gained weight and a lot of it!! Vegetables are forced down. I gag on vinegars so I use lemon juice on salads. I will never go back to eating meat but I wish that someone ( you, Dr. Greger! ) would address people like me who are unhealthy vegans as opposed to people on the SAD. And offer help and support for vegans who don’t feel as though they are thriving. I know that I probably have avoided serious illnesses in middle age like cancer but I also notice many many people who are eating meat every day and are thriving into their elder years. Not everyone who eats a plant based diet is happy doing it. I am happy not to be contributing to the meat industry but frankly, the Impossible burger has made me enjoy lunch again. The saturated fat in it is coconut oil so I feel that is better than animal saturated fat. At any rate, it’s pretty delicious!

              1. Stomach Cancer would be the thing I will look for.

                Salted soy caused stomach cancer is in one Dr. Greger interview and is on PubMed.

                1. The amount of salt in one of any of these burgers is probably going to be around 25% of the US RDA of salt,

                  Now if you eat one of these burgers for breakfast lunch and dinner you are obviously going to have a problem especially if you idea of exercise does not involve sweating in any appreciable amount.

                  The Japanese with soy sauce and all are some of the largest consumers of salt per capita in the world. And largly the stomach cancer things are reflective of that.
                  And the Japanese as a general are not doing exercises which would result in any metabolic use of salt.

                  Now if one uses a all cause mortality usually salt corresponds to highly processed or fast foods with often chicken as main componant…so is it the salt or the fast foods?
                  I think I know the answer to that.

                  Salt is bad in excess but one or any of these burgers is probably not going to throw one into the excess consumption category unless one is sedentary in lifestyle with no exercise of a continual aerobic kind which produces copious sweat.
                  McDougall many of these docs are focusing not on normal healthy adults very active peoples but those with medical problems which require remediation.

                  But with the miracle burger it is not just the salt, the whole way around little recommends it other than for environmental or moral reasons as a vegan thing.
                  No fiber high sat fat high fat gmo processed high salt….all bad.
                  One may find any one of the others in most of the burgers but all of them..no

                  1. Here for comparative purposes are the largest salt containers in fast foods..
                    “1. McDONALD’S, Spicy Buffalo Sauce 2140mg (134%RDA)
                    2. McDONALD’S, NEWMAN’S OWN Low Fat Balsamic Vinaigrette 1562mg (98%RDA)
                    3. Fast foods, biscuit, with ham 1268mg (79%RDA)
                    4. Fast foods, shrimp, breaded and fried 1143mg (71%RDA)
                    5. KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN, Popcorn Chicken 1140mg (71%RDA)
                    6. Fast foods, hush puppies 1085mg (68%RDA)
                    7. KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN, Biscuit, analyzed prior to January 2007 1053mg (66%RDA)
                    8. POPEYES, Spicy Chicken Strips, analyzed 2006 997mg (62%RDA)
                    9. McDONALD’S, Biscuit, large size 974mg (61%RDA)
                    10. McDONALD’S, Biscuit, regular size 974mg (61%RDA)
                    11. PIZZA HUT 14 Pepperoni Pizza, THIN ‘N CRISPY Crust 967mg (60%RDA)
                    12. McDONALD’S, NEWMAN’S OWN Ranch Dressing 954mg (60%RDA)
                    13. KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN, Crispy Chicken Strips 948mg (59%RDA)
                    14. Sandwiches and burgers, roast beef sandwich with cheese 928mg (58%RDA)
                    15. POPEYES, Mild Chicken Strips, analyzed 2006 922mg (58%RDA)
                    16. McDONALD’S, Barbeque Sauce 910mg (57%RDA)
                    17. McDONALD’S, Hot Mustard Sauce 902mg (56%RDA)
                    18. McDONALD’S, Sausage Biscuit 875mg (55%RDA)
                    19. Fast Food, Pizza Chain, 14 pizza, pepperoni topping, thin crust 875mg (55%RDA)
                    20. McDONALD’S, Bacon Egg & Cheese Biscuit 863mg (54%RDA)
                    Read more at http://www.dietandfitnesstoday.com/fast-foods-high-in-sodium.php#ThUG8UoO1Z3D3BBs.99

                    So basically eat fast foods with any on meal and you are likely consuming at least half to 100% your RDa of salt..One meal. And the list is only considering single items when how many add ketchup to chicken or this or that, many of these are condiments to be put on other salt containing things.

                    What is the spicy buffalo sauce put on…..other mcdonalds stuff which is already way high in salt. That pizza..I am pretty sure that is one slice.

                    Fake bugers are not as healthy as WRPB stuff no doubt about it.
                    But compare them with the exception perhaps of the miracle buger due to a bunch of other things and you are still way better off than your average American fast food consumer…which is your average American.

                    Overall mortality of course those with high salt are always worse off,. In America at least not in small part because those are your fast food consumers like as not. A compounding effect high salt high fat meat products dairy/cheese about covers it all.

                    1. This add some perspective as well..” The CDC estimates that the average person consumes about 3400mg of salt a day, more than double the recommended amount for most people. The recommended daily intake is 2300mg per day, but for people suffering from hypertension it is 1500mg.”

                      Which is a enormous amount of salt.
                      But to once again add with the impossible burger it is only one of many potential negatives.

                    2. Ron,

                      I am just doing the videosDr Greger did.

                      A pinch of salt paralyzes your endothelium and decreases your nitric oxide and creates free radicals to the degree that it can make your antioxidant foods less effective.

                      Ironically, the antioxidant video had stomach Cancer rates changing if you have a high ORAC value, but if you are eating sodium, you need to increase the rate of antioxidants to enable your arteries to open and to protect against Cancer and stroke.

                      The Rice Diet – Kempner chose white rice, becsuse of wanting low sodium levels and it reversed retinopathy and the eyes getting the blood cut off from sodium would be similar to the image John McDougall shows for oil.

                      I don’t know how much sodium is in a pinch of salt, but the point is that one pinch already causes hardening of the arteries and decreases NO.

                    3. Laughing, because I have been vegan for 7 months and have a blood pressure, which was resistant to sodium levels and didn’t think I would come over to this side, but they tested the arteries of people whose blood pressure didn’t go up and the arteries still were paralyzed.

                      You have so much more understanding of all of it than I do, so I know I could change my mind on many subjects by the time I have been almost vegan for almost a year, but the pictures of arterial function win over any doctors logic.

                      Someone on John’s MS Youtube video commented that the endothelium images are fake somehow, but they are calling Swank a liar who forged images and that may happen someday, because of photoshop, but Swank was an old guy and I trust his images.

                    4. Deb salt is a necessary part of the human diet always. A bit of it is always necessary, the question always is how much is harmful.

                      Virtually no one has done a study on a WFPD diet with a bit of salt added to it. Invariably the studies are observational with gross amounts or they are in lab study devoted to animal or related to common American diets which as noted weather it is sodium or salt are way high.

                      Salt is simply not a evil to the body. We would all be quite dead without it as it is required for body processes as well as other minerals are.

                    5. This is from a natural food site but I could get it about anywhere on salt/sodium.

                      ” Some amount of salt is definitely required by the body because of the following functions it serves in the body:
                      i. NaCl is an important constituent of our blood (0.9 gm in every 100 ml). It is important for the maintenance of Red Blood cells and helps proteins to dissolve.
                      ii. Sodium ions help in the conduction of nerve impulses and contraction of muscles.
                      iii. Sodium ions help to retain water in the body and maintain water balance.
                      iv. Sodium ions are important in transport of substances across cell membranes.
                      v. Sodium ions play a part in the electrical activity of the heart. Exchange of sodium and potassium ions in the pacemaker cells of the heart’s sinoatrial node causes the heart to beat.
                      vi. Chloride ions are an important component of blood plasma.
                      vii. Chloride ions help in formation of HC1 (Hydrochloric acid) in stomach for digestion.
                      viii. A saline drip is given to patients suffering from a severe loss of salts from the body as in cholera, dysentery, vomiting etc.
                      ix. Sodium plays an important role in the regulation of acid base balance in the body fluids including blood, lymph, tears and gastrointestinal secretions.

                      However, increased salt intake is warranted during hot summer days and periods of heavy exertion that cause profuse sweating since salt and water are lost when we perspire or sweat. The white spots left on our coloured clothes by the drying sweat during summer are because of sodium chloride deposition. This is because when sweat dries from the clothes, water in it evaporates leaving behind sodium chloride which produces white spots on the clothes.
                      Severe salt loss in the body manifests muscle cramps, irritability and apathy.

                      Americans consume way way to much in general. Japanese men even more, much more.
                      But again it is not a evil and is necessary.
                      Can one get enough from a strictly raw veggie or fruition diet to function in a heat environment with some significant energy expenditure which produces sweat….I say not, despite some sodium being naturally present in things we eat. Which is why wars and revolutions have had salt as a component or impetus..it is that important to us we die over access. Our evolutionary pattern of population may speak a bit to this, we tend to populate places where it is present.

                      Our problem is processed and fast foods introduce us to such a degree of excess any study of normal peoples always has a preincidence of overt overconsumption in study.

                      Yes some primitive like peoples have been found to thrive in a no salt type diet but we are not all primitive peoples nor necessarily adapted as they are.
                      Inuits thrive for a bit on a all animal diet. But under study they die earlier and suffer osteoperoisis as well in endemic fashion. That we can produce populations that survive adequately with no ill effects from virtually no obvious salt consumption does not infer it is a preferred situation of optimal function as per human.

                  2. I use salt often in conversation as it is easily understood and related to but yes there is a difference if one is discussing some scientific aspect of things.

                    ” Sodium vs. Salt: A Shade of Difference
                    Salt is sodium plus chloride. Both are minerals. Salt is made up of 40% sodium and 60% chloride. It’s that 40% that causes so much concern among doctors today. Their findings point to the dangers of people overdoing salt intake in their daily diets. High blood pressure, strokes, and kidney disease have all been associated with excessive salt intake.
                    Salt’s Bad Rap
                    Just as fitness gurus warn against the dangers of salt, understand that salt is important–too little of this good thing may also be harmful. Salt, or sodium chloride, does great things for the body. It’s essential for the health of all the cells. Along with potassium, you need your salt so that your nerves can function properly and your muscles can contract. Salt helps balance out the body. It contributes to fluid balance, electrolyte balance and pH balance.”

                    Sodium would infer actually much more salt intake as it is only 40% of salt. But for conversation we often use the two interchangeably which in a study of the literature is commonplace.But if one wants to nitpick everything I or someone else says it is indeed found a space to nitpick.

                    1. The things I quote are all from published sources which reaffirm my statement it is commonplace in discussion to incude the two as one, sodium and salt for ease of communication. Though it is indeed technically not correct. I do occasionally inadvertently omit a quote mark or two but most are quoted correctly, though I did not bother to annotate source of quote at times considering it unnecessary as these are not technical points being made on my part..
                      Should I write each and every one of them to correct their misuse of verbiage…probably not as they would consider me quite a silly person to do so.

                    2. Thanks for the sodium/salt lesson.

                      I have one relative who is allergic to saline. The hospitals never believe him and give it to him even after he says it and then have to deal with hives.

                      Another friend just had a similar thing with the hives. To make it worse, she seems to be allergic to Lasix and has swelling.

                      Seems like allergies are more and more common.

                      I saw a news spot about a girl who was allergic to her own tears.

            2. Okay I just thought of something else:

              If Cancer is sometimes caused by not having enough available trypsin and chromotrypsin to eat the fibrin off the cell wall of the Cancer, then, assuming these impossible burgers and beyond butgers don’t use up the trypsin and chromotrypsin the way meat does, then it can be directionally a good step away from meat.

              1. Sure but what benefit to get some minor protection from cancer, and then die of a heart attack due to the sat fat component and other inflammatory aspects found in a normal diet, even if vegan?

                When about 100 other burgers of the same sort are present with no such risk.

                Not to mention all the rest of its negative composition.
                If however someone is looking for a excuse to eat the thing……there it is, a excuse.

                1. Ron,

                  Everybody around me is Keto.

                  They don’t even eat fruits and vegetables, except things like potatoes roasted with oil and herbs.

                  They eat meat.

                  Those burgers might help them, if it cuts their cholesterol and saturated fats in half or if it means they don’t need all their trypsin to digest the meat if the cancer cell wall theory is true.

                  I don’t even know that they would try it, but I am doing the research for when the real health issues come.

                  My Jewish friend is in town. His father had a stroke and just fell and hit his head and died. My step-mother keeps falling after her stroke, but none of them associate stroke with diet. Not even a little bit.

                  It is hard to change a culture.

                  If I could get them to eat a fake heme burger and like it and if it cuts out 3 of the risks, that would be cool. If it adds 5 times more sodium, I am pausing to understand if that is still worth it or if I am waiting for the low sodium versions to come out.

              2. Though if you eat them, you need to up your ORAC value to avoid the damage to your arteries.

                The study used IV Vitamin C, and I will say it might not cute Cancer, but it might undo some of the sodium damage.

                As high an ORAC value as possible.

                So berry it up and add some cloves and Lane tested Triphala or Amla

                or that other one…. Which also begins with the letter A, below Dragons Blood on the list.

                I keep trying to type my guess of how it is spelled, but spell correct keeps changing the word to anthrax and that is not it.

                1. Well sure, there is a balance to things of diet and one item is rarely found to be evil of nonconsumable if there is historical use. Which is why without overt overconsumption salt is rarely a problem. Other things in the diet, a WFPB diet, protect from adverse affect.

                  With such, the contents of a WFPB diet, and not overtly overconsumed, the adverse affect does not exist. Without and overconsumed, it does.
                  So study the thing in a unnatural context and we find overt harm. Is it the substance then or the context? In many situations it is the context. With salt it is overconsumption and likely as a problem compounded by lacking of various nutrients normally found in a WFPB diet which americans do not consume.

                  Salt in any lab study a petrie study with salt and a living cell will find in excess the cell dying entirely and completely if the salt content of the medium is to high.

                  But the context ot that study is above the internal dilution level. Go below the internal dilution level and the cell membrane deconstructs and the cell dies as well.

                  So it is with human to much harms us but to little does as well and with human other factors in diet protect from harm.

                  I would not go as far as cloves or amala though, normally found produce protects in many fashionsas you know.

    2. Taxi, can you cook, or at least follow a recipe? If so, get yourself a copy of Dreena Burton’s Plant-Powered Families — forget the title, as it’s just as useful to a single person or couple as to a family. It’s full of whole-food, oil-free “comfort food” that’s tasty for picky eaters (kid-friendly only because kids tend to like simpler flavor profiles — and that might be right up your alley since you don’t like international cuisine). There are recipes like burgers and sloppy joes that will feel familiar to you. In particular, she’s got an easy veggie burger made from black beans and oats that is probably the easiest veggie burger recipe on the planet, with just a few common pantry ingredients (and it’s good!). Her recipes are a good starting place to wean yourself off the processed junk food. (She also offers some free recipes on her website, DreenaBurton.com.)

      Watch the vegan cheese analogs too — they tend to be fatty and full of crap you don’t want to eat (the last time I looked at a vegan cream “cheese” ingredients list in a store, it was full of TRANS fat).

      1. Thank you, Maggie! It was great seeing your comment since I don’t usually get a lot if advice about this. Most ppl, including my family love vegetables and going out to get Asian food, etc. I will order a copy of that cookbook today. I have been just going to Mad Mex to get the seitan wings with vegan ranch or getting the Impossible Burger with vegan mayo. Im just getting fatter and fatter so I need to make changes now! It just makes me uncomfortable sometimes that doctors or dietitians automatically assume that if you “go vegan” and stop eating animal fat that you will lose a lot of weight. The exact opposite was true for me. I am also going to try intermittent fasting.

  7. That is a hard one.

    Mushroom burgers can be one.
    Jackfruit can be made to taste like lots of things.
    If you did things like chili, sometimes having the same spices and using the beans works.

    You didn’t say “fruit” in your dislikes.

    I would say add in fruit and any veggies you can.
    You liked potatoes and that you can still do, with a vegan gravy or something.

    I would print out a list of fruits and vegetables and look at a calorie density chart.

    See if there is anything at all you like.

    Watch videos on calorie density, because the principle is that people tend to eat the same volume of food, rather than being consistent with calories.

    Adding in high water content foods, like grapes or watermelon or oranges or lentil soup, for instance, would put more of your food in the lower calorie range.

    It has to be the food, not the juice.

    The videos will explain why.

    1. Try to add one fruit or vegetable per week for a month or two.

      Even just one bite.

      I say that because that is what I did.

      I hated fruit. I particularly hated every berry known to man.

      I overcame it by watching blueberry videos and by searching for a “training wheel food” for instance with blueberries, I found out that if I ate a green grape, which I could handle, I could put one green grape and one blueberry in my mouth and the blueberry would taste “green grape-ish.”

      It probably took me buying fresh blueberry packs and giving them away and throwing them out for months, before I would take the bite, but I watched the videos over and over again anyway.

      The green grapes really worked and I have been pre-chewing my dog’s blueberries, because of his cancer. (Finding out that blueberries double the Natural Killer cells of the body was a good motivation for me.)

      What happened last week was that I bought blackberries, too, and I hadn’t overcome my sense of hating blackberries yet and hadn’t gotten up the courage to eat one when I bought them, but this time I did and some of them were sweeter than the blueberries and some weren’t, but my dog is the one getting the actual fruit, but I look at it that I have overcome my fear of blueberries and blackberries.

      There are strawberries in my refrigerator, which I still haven’t tasted.

      They are the fruit, which I got sick on as a young child.

      Yes, I have wasted money, but if I overcome these mental issues, my medical bill savings will make up for it.

  8. Tonight, I talked on the phone for an hour and a half with my friend, who called from Israel. They took his father back there and that is where they sat shiva. It turned out that he died of falling and hitting his head while on blood thinners, just like my other friend’s relative from a few weeks ago.

    Anyway, we started with remembering the man and the history. His relatives escaped from Hungary, during WWII, during a time when only 10% of Jewish people survived. Then, we moved through other topics and finally, we got to WFPB. We got to that topic because he mentioned how he was eating at work often and ended up eating pizza and burgers, fries and soda and had a dietician say, “Apparently, you haven’t learned anything.”

    Culturally, he is breath-taking, even if he has been eating a SAD diet. He was not politicized toward Keto and we had the best conversation I have had with anyone since I became a vegan. I like that he wasn’t at all defensive or angry or superficial. He let me be part of his grieving process, even if it had to be after his week of mourning.

    Anyway, he will just do it. He doesn’t know it, but I admire him. He has inner character and discipline and yet is genuinely himself in every setting. Boy, I want to be more like him, but both of us have to eat our vegetables and fruit and I already know that just hearing the logic, he will be the one who will just do it. He is like the Nike ad and he is going to zoom 1000 miles ahead of me.

  9. Hi I’m a RN health support volunteer. I did some looking and I didn’t find anything specifically on sarcoidosis and plant based diet. It is an autoimmune disease and there is a fair amount about autoimmune disease and plant based diet. I would look into some of that information. Dr. Pam Popper gave a lengthy talk on autoimmune disease you might like:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueEuvDoxLyQ
    From nutritionfacts:
    https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/autoimmune-diseases/

    NurseKelly

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