Image Credit: Pixabay. This image has been modified.

How the Egg Industry Tried to Bury the TMAO Risk

“Metabolomics is a term used to describe the measurement of multiple small-molecule metabolites in biological specimens, including bodily fluids,” with the goal of “[i]dentifying the molecular signatures.” For example, if we compared the metabolic profile of those with severe heart disease to those with clean arteries, we might be able to come up with a cheap, simple, and noninvasive way to screen people. If heart patients happened to have something in their blood that healthy people didn’t, we could test for that. What’s more, perhaps it would even help us understand the mechanisms of disease. “To refer to metabolomics as a new field is injustice to ancient doctors who used ants to diagnose the patients of diabetes” (because the ants could detect the sugar in the diabetics’ urine).

The first modern foray discovered hundreds of substances in a single breath, thanks to the development of computer technology that made it possible to handle large amounts of information—and that was in 1971, when a computer took up nearly an entire room. “[N]ew metabolomics technologies [have] allowed researchers to measure hundreds or even thousands of metabolites at a time,” which is good since more than 25,000 compounds may be entering our body through our diet alone.

Researchers can use computers to turn metabolic data into maps that allow them to try to piece together connections. You can see sample data and a map at 1:28 in my video Egg Industry Response to Choline and TMAO. Metabolomics is where the story of TMAO started. “Everyone knows that a ‘bad diet’ can lead to heart disease. But which dietary components are the most harmful?” Researchers at the Cleveland Clinic “screened blood from patients who had experienced a heart attack or stroke and compared the results with those from blood of people who had not.”

Using an array of different technology, the researchers identified a compound called TMAO, which stands for trimethylamine N-oxide. The more TMAO people had in their blood, the greater the odds they had heart disease and the worse their heart disease was.

Where does TMAO come from? At 2:19 in my video, you can see a graphic showing that our liver turns TMA into TMAO—but where does TMA come from? Certain bacteria in our gut turn the choline in our diet into TMA. Where is the highest concentration of choline found? Eggs, milk, and meats, including poultry and fish. So, when we eat these foods, our gut bacteria may make TMA, which is absorbed into our system and oxidized by our liver into TMAO, which may then increase our risk of heart attack, stroke, and death.

However, simply because people with heart disease tend to have higher TMAO levels at a snapshot in time doesn’t mean having high TMAO levels necessarily leads to bad outcomes. We’d really want to follow people over time, which is what researchers did next. Four thousand people were followed for three years, and, as you can see in the graph at 3:10 in my video, those with the highest TMAO levels went on to have significantly more heart attacks, strokes, or death.

Let’s back up for a moment. If high TMAO levels come from eating lots of meat, dairy, and eggs, then maybe the only reason people with high TMAO levels have lots of heart attacks is that they’re eating lots of meat, dairy, and eggs. Perhaps having high TMAO levels is just a marker of a diet high in “red meat, eggs, milk, and chicken”—a diet that’s killing people by raising cholesterol levels, for example, and has nothing to do with TMAO at all. Conversely, the reason a low TMAO level seems so protective may just be that it’s indicative of a more plant-based diet.

One reason we think TMAO is directly responsible is that TMAO levels predict the risk of heart attacks, strokes, or death “independently of traditional cardiovascular risk factors.” Put another way, regardless of whether or not you had high cholesterol or low cholesterol, or high blood pressure or low blood pressure, having high TMAO levels appeared to be bad news. This has since been replicated in other studies. Participants were found to have up to nine times the odds of heart disease at high TMAO blood levels even after “controll[ing] for meat, fish, and cholesterol (surrogate for egg) intake.”

What about the rest of the sequence, though? How can we be certain that our gut bacteria can take the choline we eat and turn it into trimethylamine in the first place? It’s easy. Just administer a simple dietary choline challenge by giving participants some eggs.

Within about an hour of eating two hard-boiled eggs, there is a bump of TMAO in the blood, as you can see at 4:51 in my video. What if the subjects are then given antibiotics to wipe out their gut flora? After the antibiotics, nothing happens after they eat more eggs. In fact, their TMAO levels are down at zero. This shows that our gut bacteria play a critical role. But, if we wait a month and give their guts some time to recover from the antibiotics, TMAO levels creep back up.

These findings did not thrill the egg industry. Imagine working for the American Egg Board and being tasked with designing a study to show there is no effect of eating nearly an egg a day. How could a study be rigged to show no difference? If we look at the effect of an egg meal (see 5:32 in my video), we see it gives a bump in TMAO levels. However, our kidneys are so good at getting rid of TMAO, by hours four, six, and eight, we’re back to baseline. So, the way to rig the study is just make sure the subjects hadn’t eaten those eggs in the last 12 hours. Then, you can show “no effect,” get your study published in the Journal of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, and collect your paycheck.


Unfortunately, this appears to be par for the course for the egg industry. For more on their suspect activities, see:

For more on the TMAO story, see:

In health,
Michael Greger, M.D.

PS: If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my free videos here and watch my live presentations:

 

Discuss

Michael Greger M.D., FACLM

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM, is a physician, New York Times bestselling author, and internationally recognized professional speaker on a number of important public health issues. Dr. Greger has lectured at the Conference on World Affairs, the National Institutes of Health, and the International Bird Flu Summit, testified before Congress, appeared on The Dr. Oz Show and The Colbert Report, and was invited as an expert witness in defense of Oprah Winfrey at the infamous "meat defamation" trial.


108 responses to “How the Egg Industry Tried to Bury the TMAO Risk

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        1. If you’re referring to the benefits of fish, keep in mind that the “holy grail” of research is longevity and avoiding disease. Fish may be beneficial in this study with the parameter they evaluated, but there are so many other issues with fish such as POPs (pollutants), cholesterol and mercury. I used to eat fish every day until I read the studies showing the health risks. I don’t eat fish anymore.

    1. “All things are poison, and nothing is without poison, the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison.” Paracelsus (1493-1541)

      In other words, “The dose makes the poison.”

      1. Corpsman- I think you meant to say, “Any dose is poisonous” not “the dose makes the poison” in response to Thomas’ question about eggs.

        The multiple studies and trials referenced in the blog all conclusively showed that even just one egg a day “increases our risk of heart attack, stroke, and death.”

          1. Corpsman- “The more TMAO people had in their blood, the greater the odds they had heart disease and the worse their heart disease was” Any amount of eggs raises your TMAO unless you nuke your digestive tract with antibiotics so yeah, halves and quarters and eighths and sixteenths of eggs are all poisonous. It’s sad because eggs are yummy and are a great binder in recipes.

            1. Eggs have choline and choline is essential for muscles and liver function, apparently. Choline is also in vegetables, so we don’t need to eat eggs to keep our liver and muscles healthy. Our bowels convert all choline to TMAO, apparently, so I agree= the dose of choline is potentially the cause of increased TMAO.

  1. It would be interesting to measure TMAO in animals like cats and dogs to see if they can handle it better (or if it even matters to them). Esp. since eggs are often considered as a ‘safe’ and the cleanest proteins for pets with kidney disease…. and of course most dogs and cats eat lots of meat as well. Did anybody come across this already? I haven’t searched yet beyond the superficial internet info. Thank you.

    1. Heidi,

      I wonder if that is true or if it is that they haven’t done the double-blind placebo studies.

      I am not really talking about cats, but the grain-free movement is still causing heart problems and the Purdue University study, it was giving dog’s vegetables that lowered the cancer rate risk in dogs by 90% and one of the Guinness World Book of Records longest living dogs was a dog fed vegan.

      I am not saying it to argue. I am saying it because dogs are dying so young. The vegan dog lived to 27 on lentils and vegetables.

      My dog’s vet expected him to die around 11 or 12, by 13 at the latest. I looked up how long dog’s live and Google says, 10 to 13 years, so his thoughts are in line with what people are thinking.

      1. Going back to the TMAO, if we look at dogs, 50% of them get cancer.

        I look at Diabetes rates in dogs and there was a 79.7 percent increase in incidences of Diabetes from 2005 to 2016, so when did the whole raw and keto movement happen in dogs?

        75% of dogs get heart disease.

        Those states are by WebMD pet and the Drake Center.

        1. To me, dogs would probably do the best WFPB.

          Cats are more confusing because of their nutritional needs, but I will tell you that my friends and relatives who do have cats have had a lot of cats with Diabetes and Cancer and Heart Disease, too.

          Some year, if my sister-in-law and coworker keep working on me to foster a cat, I will have to pay for a session with Dr. Lisle to ask if his cat is thriving vegan with supplements.

          I would suspect the cat would be thriving but would be somewhat miserable transitioning from meat to vegan.

          I don’t say it because I would want a miserable cat. I won’t get a cat because all of the disease mechanisms now go in front of my face and I can’t imagine they have forms of Diabetes or Cancer or Heart Disease that work differently.

          And I do get that people would literally kill me for even thinking of feeding animals vegan.

          Dr. Lisle is especially not in the 65% of people who just follow the rules.

          1. Hasn’t anyone here read about canine diet-mediated cardiomyopathy? Please don’t kill your dogs with diets filled with lentils, peas and potatoes or sweet potatoes. Research is still in progress to fully understand why, but the link to murmurs, heart failure, and deaths are real. Experience has at least shown you cannot just supplement taurine – despite taurine in the diet, dogs (of nearly all breeds) have died of cardiomyopathy with what appears to be an inability to utilize taurine. Grain free diets are the most common reason, but vegan can also cause it. It’s a dice role with your dog’s health. Please consult with your veterinarian.

        2. Dogs immune system’s are being screwed with by giving them a annual rabies vaccine along with any other vaccine they can come up with. An increase in vaccines in this country for animals and humans has made us sicker and sicker. Sudden infant death, autoimmune disorders, cancer.. when I was a child there were 7vaccines we were required. Now we are up to over 50!!! The true marker for cardiovascular health is homocysteine levels. A freind of mine had perfect BP and perfect LDL, HDL triglycerides were all well within the guidelines as perfect but still had a cardiovascular event. But his homocysteine levels were not good

            1. Thanks Deb. Science matters. More vets are checking timers before considering vaccine boosters. Super. But fresh food toppers Are proven to matter.

                1. Yes, I’m sure that’s what she meant or typed before auto un-correct. Blood titres to measure immunity levels is a trend I love for both pets and humans. Regular dental care for our pets is another issue getting attention for long term health. Not too surprising considering what we know about humans and dental health. Not too easy when you have cats.

          1. Anyone who has seen what polio, measles, whooping cough, or rubella can do to kids and infants though would never question the necessity of certain vaccines.

            1. Americans are so brainwashed by the pharmaceutical industry regarding certain vaccines, which the industry is making billions from every year. I am 69 years old; everyone my age or within 15 years of it had measles. We did not die or were ever hospitalized. Parents had “measles parties” to spread the disease through the neighborhood and get it over with. It was a few days of feeling quite wretched with a fever and another week of feeling sick, after which we were not only fine, our immune systems had become stronger. Our generation is much healthier than later ones. Autism and other neurological disorders that are epidemic now were extremely rare. If you research the data that is not produced or influenced by the pharm industry, you will see that deaths from measles were practically nonexistent in the United States in modern times – this is something that happens in desperately poor, malnourished, and chronically ill populations in the third world or in other centuries. Please keep an open mind about this.

        3. many yrs ago, i met a dog breeder who said that her dogs did best when fed oatmeal & yogurt. i seem to remember that that was their only food, but can’t b absolutely sure. i don’t remember if she said whether her dogs lived longer or not.

      1. Christine,

        Are there studies on it?

        I ask because if 75% of dogs get heart disease and 50% get cancer and if Diabetes really rose by almost 80% is that better or worse than human beings rates?

          1. I am not trying to be a rabble-rouser.

            I honestly contemplate the very short life spans and the ridiculously high levels of diseases and that all of the arguments are just like Keto or Paleo, except there aren’t any WFPB people giving a different argument.

            Diabetes rates jumped almost 80%. Heart disease 75%.

            Dogs dying at 10 years old.

            It seems like we should dump all of the theories in the sea and start over and we can’t do much worse.

            1. I had just gotten another Google alert that Grain-free is still causing heart problems in dogs.

              I guess I feel like they are giving the same arguments as the human doctors.

              I think about Keto Pet Sanctuary and they cured a dog of Hemangiosarcoma with Keto. One dog.

              The dog went through surgery, chemo, Keto, Hyperbaric Oxygen with exercise, intermittent fasting, Turkey Tail mushrooms and who knows what else.

              They have had 2 successes with cancer since 2013 using what I would call Keto Plus.

              I am happy for the dogs and the owners, but the mushrooms alone have a study where it prolonged life for up to a year.

              I guess I just feel like something is majorly wrong and grain-free did the same not good results in dogs that it did in people?

              That may just be my perception, but it seems like if it were out there it would be easier to find.

              1. On a side note, keto pet sanctuary changed their testimonial on their famous dog that was healed of hemangiosarcoma.

                They took away the details about what was used to heal her.

                For instance, The testimonial switched from golf ball sized tumors surgically removed to a massive tumor was removed.

                They also took away all the other things they used other than the keto diet.

                They have 2 dogs healed from cancer since 2013.

          1. No, Ricardo. It started long before GMOs. As a vet, my dad felt it corresponded more closely with growth of use of home lawn chemicals (proven connection to lymphoma now) and full-time flea/tick preventatives. Either way, it wasn’t GMOs.

            1. One may also wish to consider obesity in pets. Obesity is a proven driver in some cancers, diabetes, and reduced pet longevity. Every pet owner can stop obesity in their fur pals. Every pet owner can add a little fresh topper. These are near free tools to add years and reduce vet bills.
              I’m not sure that dog/cat health should be discussed here, but given the date love our pets share, weak information needs balance. Thanks Nutrition Facts for your work to guide our human choices!

    2. Well, as Christine mentions, dogs and cats have different digestive systems.
      Cats are obligate carnivores, they require meat to be healthy, they have NOT evolved (from domestication) to be able to properly digest and utilize carbohydrates or plant proteins because they have not developed the enzyme amylase. Dogs, however, have changed via domestication to have amylase and do well with plant proteins and carbohydrates.

      I’ve found it strange, and sad, that the push in most pet foods is this grain-free for dogs, whilst giving cats carb and plant protein heavy foods.

    3. Heidi,

      Dogs can not only survive but also thrive on a vegan diet. I was surprised to learn this, but I now feed my ancient (16-17 yo) little rescue mutt vegan dog kibble (as does my daughter her younger and much bigger 2 rescue dogs). I”ve also made vegan dog food in my Instant Pot; the dogs loved it served atop their kibble.

      And in fact, when I called the kibble company (V-dog) to ask if they had a senior kibble, they replied that it wasn’t necessary, that the diet was low protein and that the protein was plant protein, both of which are much more protective of kidney function than is an animal product diet. Well, that is certainly true for people; there are several videos on this site describing the benefits of a whole plant food diet for kidney function.

        1. I used to use Natural Balance till they got sold to Del Monte. All I knew was we all of a sudden had lose bowls & worse in all three dogs (two were sisters). When we changed over to Halo, problems left and never returned. I’ve read similar experiences on the Internets as well. Natural Balance got sold again, this time to J.M. Smucker. I haven’t seen anything to indicate things returned to normal under JMS.

          I have no experience with V-dog because it’s so expensive though I’d imagine from the ingredient listing it’s a decent chow

      1. Dr J,

        Ditto on thriving vegan dogs… my rescue pack runs on Halo vegan chow augmented with canned pumpkin/fresh yam and fresh frozen collards which they *love*. I’ve had to educate my vet clinic, but they’ve become more respectful if not supportive as they can’t argue with the results.

        My sister is an emergency-vet and she says the vet-schools leave the nutrition education to the petfood rep “brown bag” presentations where they bring in unhealthy lunches for the students and leave animal by-product chow for the pets.

        Except for the dog-chow leave-behinds, sounds like med school. Had to go to the ophthalmologist Xmas-eve… it felt like a chummed shark tank as I watched the staph swarm to get their orders in. The way to a doctor’s Rx-pad is through their refined palate and their staph’s bellies

        1. we are also feeding our 2 dogs with halo because they have both wet and dry foods. Also top up with our leftover veggies.
          They just had their check ups and Vet says they are soooo healthy.
          Have not told her my dogs are vegan…. not a popular diet in Vermont!
          Cat has vegan too and some added fish. He is doing very well too.

        2. Ralph Rineau and Rosalind,

          Thanks for the info about Halo vegan dog chow.

          I only use V-Dog because I stumbled upon it, and I liked what they had to say. I didn’t do much further research. And price is not much of an object, because my dog is very small (9 lbs) and rather old. He’s also toothless, but is able to lap up the V-Dog small kibble. Anything else I feed him has to be first puréed. He does love puréed pumpkin and sweet potato, though, and I’ve learned to give him just a little scoop.

          But I will pass on your information to my daughter, whose 2 rescue dogs are younger and much bigger than mine. With a longer lifespan left. So price could be an object. However, one of her dogs seems to have allergy and GI problems, and does better on the V-dog than any other dog food my daughter has tried, including the very expensive vet prescribed food.

        3. Ralph Rhineau,
          Thank you for mentioning Halo dog food. I have been ‘home cooking’ for my smaller dogs at supper as well as leaving a well known dry food for them in the mornings. I have had health challenges too myself, and wanted to find a good emergency food to have on hand for when I wasn’t up to making something. Well, I gave them a test spoonful and they inhaled it in microseconds!

          I am so grateful to you for your suggestion.

      2. 15-17 is not ancient in small dogs. It’s typical. That’s as silly a point as mine, that we’ve raised many large dogs to that age on Purina and Science Diet grain/meat with fresh toppers. (Which we have. Genetic longevity matters). Anecdotes prove nothing.

    4. I know that both my cat and dog so much better on vegan food doubles the life expectancy for a Great Dane. Up to 16 years instead of 6-8years.

      My Savannah cat started on a high meat diet like the guides said, she didn’t stop getting sick until I switched her to vegan. The stuff where ppl say vegan kills cats was based on an opinion article about a cat that was already very ill. My kitty is 5years in on vegan food and still more energetic and healthy then my roommates cats and kitten that eat a more traditional meaty cat food.

      1. ML, I’m really curious about how you feed your cat vegan. I’m currently home-cooking my cat food (chicken, liver, eggs plus supplements including taurine). I have two elderlies whose food I’ve begun to mix with some pumpkin and rice to control the diarrhea that afflicts most elderly cats. Until that, I haven’t questioned the obligate carnivore rule, but they are doing much better with the addition of grain and vegetable to their diet. So I’m wondering if I should actually be feeding more vegetables while carefully supplementing.

    1. Vicky Tiberi,

      I stopped eating eggs altogether several years ago, and I don’t miss them. I watched the videos about eggs on this site, and decided that I should stop eating them, as they appear unhealthy for me, and they are certainly not healthy for the planet. (ie, Eating eggs is not sustainable, not environmentally friendly, and cruel to the chickens and the workers in the egg industry. Chickens are also fed all kinds of things I wouldn’t want to eat, including arsenic and antibiotics.)

      I now eat beans instead of eggs at breakfast (I also eat steel cut oats, cooked in my Instant Pot; I vary what I eat for breakfast), and I use ground flaxseed in water when baking. And since I try to avoid processed food, I wouldn’t consume egg whites because they are a processed food.

  2. “To refer to metabolomics as a new field is injustice to ancient doctors who used ants to diagnose the patients of diabetes”

    Sniffer ants would be a lot cheaper.

    How did they train the ants? Or was it more put the person in a room and watch the ants swarm toward them?

    With the dogs, they do a certain behavior to alert their owners.

    Wondering what the ants did?

    1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_diabetes

      https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Principles_of_Biochemistry/Glucose,_Glycogen_and_Diabetes

      Doctors in ancient India first noticed the sweet taste in diabetics urine. (Some believed drinking urine was beneficial, and some still practice this today), They then devised a test for diabetes, seeing if ants were attracted to the urine. This was simple in a time without plumbing. Ants love sweet things. Leave some honey or sugar water outside and within a short time there will be a swarm of ants. Any ants will do this, no training needed. :)

  3. Re: “Unfortunately, this appears to be part [sic] for the course for the egg industry.”

    I think you meant to say “*par* for the course”… meaning ostensibly typical. I say ostensibly since back when I was golfing, shooting par was the exception, not the rule, thanks to Coach Shackelford’s weight lifting program for linemen

        1. This link appears to denigrate Weston Price, not the article I linked, which was written by Chris Masterjohn, who has nothing to do Weston Price. They just happened to repost it. It’s unfortunate that that is where I found the link as I also am not a fan of Weston Price. However, the article, in my opinion, is still worth reading.

  4. As a recent new mom, it has been recommended that I add choline to my diet, as it is supposedly great for my baby’s developing brain. I found a prenatal pill that has choline and took it during pregnancy, and still take it now, since I am breastfeeding. Is there any difference between choline found in a pill vs. choline found in eggs, meat, dairy? Thank you to Dr. Greger and the nutrition facts team. You all are doing such important work.

  5. OK, so when it comes down to who lives the longest where are the studies comparing carnivores to vegans or vegetarians? Of course I want to make it complicated by comparing Organic food to SAD.

    1. Wayne,

      They can’t force people to not eat organic for long enough to have a gold standard study.

      We do have examples from around the globe dubbed the Blue Zones. The Adventists, the Okinawans, and other groups.

      We also have disease reversal studies.

      Dr. Ornish has several.
      Dr. Barnard, Dr. Esselstyn.

      Brenda Davis has one with a population that was sickly in the Marshall Islands.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1a_e5cK9MQ

    2. Hi Wayne,

      I am a volunteer for Dr. Greger. Thank you so much for your question.

      There are no studies, to my knowledge, looking at longevity differences between carnivores and vegetarians or vegans. This is because there are very very few people that eat a carnivore diet. However, there are studies showing that people eating vegetarian or vegan live longer than those that eat meat. Here is a post (https://nutritionfacts.org/2018/01/11/what-do-the-longest-living-people-eat/) by Dr. Greger where he finds that Adventist vegetarians who also had healthy lifestyles lived to age 87 for men and age 90 for women. The study that somebody posted above also shows that vegetarians from this population live longer than non-vegetarians. This is an interesting population to study, because even the non-vegetarians ate significantly less meat than most non-vegetarians do. They also make other healthier lifestyle choices regarding smoking and physical activity.

      I hope this helps answer your question!

  6. In the Blue Zone study (if there’s any value to that) most of the people ate eggs and yet they had some of the longest life spans. They also ate almost no meat and no cow dairy.

    1. I’m glad you are aware of the Blue Zones research. While it’s true some of the populations in the Blue Zones at eggs, it does not appear MOST did nor were they a major part of their diet, as is found more in the Standard American diet. Certainly the fact that Blue Zone seniors at almost no meat or diary may be giving them the longevity boost overshadowing the potential negatives from the small amount of eggs they included in their diet. Just additional thoughts to consider.

  7. Does this mean that taking a Sunflowr Lecithin supplement is risky for cardiovascular health? A 1200 mg softgel has 180 mg of Phospatidyl Choline.

    I take a high dose of these to prevent plugged ducts.

    Thanks!

    1. It appears taking lecithin supplement may be risky not only for cardiovascular health but cancer risk as well. Unless your doctor specifically recommended taking the supplement and you’ve reviewed your concerns carefully with him, you may want to use other approaches to minimize C/V risk. Consider these resources:
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/carnitine-choline-cancer-and-cholesterol-the-tmao-connection/ (Go to transcript paragraph 11)
      Relations between dietary choline or lecithin intake, serum choline levels, and various metabolic indices https://www.metabolismjournal.com/article/0026-0495(78)90139-7/pdf
      “After the consumption of a single meal containing 3 g choline chloride, serum choline rose by 86% (p < 0.01), attaining peak values after 30 min. When the same subjects ate a meal containing an equivalent amount of choline in the form of lecithin, serum choline levels rose by 33% after 30 min, and continued to rise for at least 12 hr, to 265% over control values (p < 0.001)… Lecithin consumption increased serum triglyceride levels and lowered serum cholesterol concentration”.
      https://examine.com/supplements/soy-lecithin/#scientific-research
      “May have cholesterol reducing properties, but limited human evidence and the mechanism does not appear to be unique (being common to soluble fiber in general)”
      I hope this is helpful

    2. Unless your doctor specifically recommended lecithin I’d be cautious about your lecithin supplements. If so, you my want to review concerns with your doctor. Here are resources explaining why:
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/carnitine-choline-cancer-and-cholesterol-the-tmao-connection/ (Go to transcript paragraph 11)
      Relations between dietary choline or lecithin intake, serum choline levels, and various metabolic indices https://www.metabolismjournal.com/article/0026-0495(78)90139-7/pdf
      “After the consumption of a single meal containing 3 g choline chloride, serum choline rose by 86% (p < 0.01), attaining peak values after 30 min. When the same subjects ate a meal containing an equivalent amount of choline in the form of lecithin, serum choline levels rose by 33% after 30 min, and continued to rise for at least 12 hr, to 265% over control values (p < 0.001)… Lecithin consumption increased serum triglyceride levels and lowered serum cholesterol concentration”.
      https://examine.com/supplements/soy-lecithin/#scientific-research
      “May have cholesterol reducing properties, but limited human evidence and the mechanism does not appear to be unique (being common to soluble fiber in general)”

  8. I am a WFPBV. Except that I occasionally eat RAW pigeon eggs from my rescued flock. I used to give the raw eggs to my rescued cats, however, the cats I have now, do not like eggs, so I end up eating them. I lived in Japan for a decade, before the SAD diet arrived there. The people ate eggs from their flocks, or from neighbors’ flocks, sporadically, as they were a luxury. But they ate them RAW. They rarely ate cooked eggs. Is there something about eating eggs RAW as opposed to cooked, that may change the data? And what about eating eggs (cooked) from a family flock fed organic human grade scraps and wildly foraging as opposed to eating eggs from an (organic) industrial production?

    1. Good for you eating primarily WFPB, Elise. Although you do not want to waste those pigeon eggs, I’d be cautious about eating them. Check out this information:

      https://www.cdc.gov/features/salmonellaeggs/index.html Salmonella and Eggs “The inside of eggs that appear normal can contain a germ called Salmonella that can make you sick, especially if you eat raw or lightly cooked eggs…Poultry may carry bacteria such as Salmonella, which can contaminate the inside of eggs before the shells are formed. Egg shells may become contaminated with Salmonella from poultry droppings (poop) or the area where they are laid…Do not keep eggs or foods made with eggs warm or at room temperature for more than 2 hours, or 1 hour if the temperature is 90°F or hotter.”
      From other studies comparing organic meat to non-organic, research indicates food products are not much healthier. Here is one study you can look at comparing organic eggs v tradition eggs: https://www.ecowatch.com/organic-vs-conventional-find-out-which-eggs-are-healthiest-to-eat-1881971654.html Remember this study is not reviewing pigeon eggs.

      Another study comparing raw v cooked eggs although it was not recent. Results did not favor raw eggs for nutrient availability. “The availability of egg protein is 91% with cooked eggs and only 50% with raw eggs.”
      Evenopoel P et al. Digestibility of cooked and raw egg protein in humans as assessed by stable isotope techniques. J Nutr. 1998.

  9. Let’s be fair, there’s lots of choline in broccoli, cauliflower, soybeans, quinoa, and mushrooms, to name a few vegan foods; and it is considered an “essential” nutrient by many (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782876/). There are many reasons to avoid eating eggs, but this looks like a case of vegan/animal rights confirmation bias that makes me question other “facts” on this website.

        1. Though I believe Dr Greger recommends against the supplements with choline in.

          I take PS100 sometimes and there is a similar version with choline which Dr Greger didn’t recommend because of the choline, I am pretty sure.

      1. Not so Jennae. The only bias that Dr. G has is in what supports human health. If fish or eggs or meat actually did decrease health risks, then he would recommend it. The fact is: unbiased clinical data overwhelmingly demonstrates that an unprocessed vegan diet is the optimal human diet. There is not a single well founded, peer-reviewed UNBIASED clinical study that shows that ingesting processed or animal derived foods decreases the risk for disease or premature death in otherwise healthy individuals as compared to an unprocessed vegan diet.

    1. And fruits contain sugar and sugar can be bad right ?
      Just to say that the presence of the nutrient itself in some food won’t necesseraly mean it will act badly on the body.
      The danger or checking each nutrient is that, we only see the effect of this one forgetting the effect when it is combined with the other nutrients from the same food.
      So the effects should be measured when eating the complete food, not one nutrient only…at the end it’s always chemical reactions, and there molecules do combine or not, having different effects than the original molecule itself.
      And lastly, the effects should be compared with the food eaten raw or cooked, as cooking is changing the food too.

  10. Rick, The video you referred to agrees that choline is an essential nutrient but too much can be harmful and I think you’ll recognize the truth in the following:
    https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Choline-HealthProfessional/ Choline: Fact Sheet for Health Professionals “The main dietary sources of choline in the United States consist primarily of animal-based products that are particularly rich in choline—meat, poultry, fish, dairy products, and eggs [4,5,8-10].”I find it hard to understand why you would question reputable studies calling them “facts”
    NutritionFacts strives to provide research that does not include bias so I hope you will not “throw out the baby” because you do not perceive the research studies as others do. Even if you continue to not see the value of eliminating eggs due to choline, I’m sure there are many other important research findings you can agree with. Hope you’ll continue to find and benefit from them.

    1. I don’t eat eggs. Not because I’m afraid of choline, I don’t need the extra cholesterol and I don’t want to contribute to the slaughter of baby roosters and the torture of egg laying hens. If you don’t find this article to be misleading, I don’t know what to say other than you should take a step back and practice some critical thinking. The presence of choline in food is not an egg industry conspiracy. Like I said above; articles like this make me question the validity anything I read here. That being said, I’ve been following Dr Gregor’s reports for several years and will continue to do so, but I don’t except everything I read here as gospel and you shouldn’t either.

  11. i found this paragraph very interesting “Using an array of different technology, the researchers identified a compound called TMAO, which stands for trimethylamine N-oxide. The more TMAO people had in their blood, the greater the odds they had heart disease and the worse their heart disease was”.

    Has anyone on this site had their blood tested for TMAO (trimethylamine N-oxide).

    1. Lesley,
      Testing your blood for TMAOs will only reflect what you’ve recently eaten – unless you’re tested frequently, and over time , it’s not going to mean much except that you are one “good” or “bad” meal.

  12. Just found out our very elderly worker who had to retire before he reached 90 per his doctor is dying from prostate cancer. He is already doing the starve to death process. I wish he would keep drinking water and try a
    40 day fast first. Seems like that is where my mind immediately went during the Webinar. I would be fighting with the doctors to do water fasting and then they would be trying to starve me to death against my will and would swab my mouth when I asked for something to drink. Think about it, water fasting is perfect. If it works people get healed and if it doesn’t work doctors get there way and another one bites the dust even if it takes 40 days.

    1. The chemotherapy causing nausea question was mine by the way. I already love webinars. I got to have a question answered and it was my favorite answer ever in a Q&A because Dr Greger did almost the same math I did.

      Doctors will stand against water fasting before chemotherapy even though they will get nauseous vomit out the calories and hate food anyway and may permanently become under-under nourished because they will suddenly hate their favorite foods.

      The only part he didn’t tie in with the mental math is that those same doctors will push for not even having water at the end and will be why it is only 10 days and they will knock them out with Morphine and make sure they lose their will to even take a breath with Ativan was it Ativan, and will dry out every drop of water with scopolamine patches or whatever those patches were and will tell the families, if they ask for water just swab their mouths because they don’t really know what they want no matter how many times they say they aren’t in pain and aren’t trying to die right now.

      So not water fast and have the end maybe take longer than 10 days and maybe get healed?

      What do doctors have against water?

      1. I didn’t ask

        So why is it that my grandmother was sitting up in the hospital bed begging for something to eat and drink, but since she had dementia they get to just say she doesn’t know what she wants and my uncle was talking between morphine shots and was saying he wasn’t in pain and said that he wanted to eat and drink but according to the doctors and nurses he didn’t know what he wanted and my mother cried out, “Please no morphine” and said that she was not in pain and that she was still doing a wanting to live process and they did the exact same’ “No, she doesn’t know what she wants and doesn’t know she is in pain” process.

        1. Sorry that is long.

          My hypothesis is that chemo only adds 10 days because the medical people go straight into the end of life process whether the patient and family wants it or not, so water fasting will either cure them or will help them enter the end of life process.

          Unless, of course, the vomiting is absolutely necessary.

          1. I have a few other friends who went through that exact same end of life fiasco with their relatives.

            I think England ended up with a great big cultural war because of how many people had it happen there.

            Anyway, if you actually want to live, do your water fasting before the chemo because they are going to knock you out with morphine pretty fast after the chemo.

      2. Deb,
        What the doctors have against water is that at the very end of life is that the dying body is unable to sufficiently eliminate it. Kidney function declines as every other system declines. If you’ve every cared for people drowning in their own over saturated bodies, it’s a rather horrid way to go Think of wanting a breath but being physically incapable of taking in sufficient oxygen. The morphine deals with pain, lowers oxygen need. The Ativan reduces anxiety. These are tools used to easy death. By the time this and swabbing are the only treatment, the evil doctors are just trying to allow a less scary and painful death.

  13. Hello everyone,

    Is it the same with raw eggs ?
    It seems that people do forget that cooking is not natural and is changing the food (I was intolerant to some raw fruits and légumes but not when they were cooked), maybe in bad ways some times..

    P.S.: I’m pretty much convinced that we should eat raw, not losing so much nutrients, not eating things badly transformed by cooking.
    Nature does provide things ready to eat, things requiring cooking to be eaten are just not supposed to be eaten by us.

  14. Popular narratives and notions may sound appealing, but the facts often conflict with logic, which is why we have clinical studies that demonstrate the truth. Raw and unprocessed fresh fruits and veggies do promote health. Raw animal products do not and are more hazardous than the cooked variety due to bacteria, viruses and parasites that are destroyed on cooking. Eggs in particular are hazardous eaten raw due to their propensity to harbor Salmonella bacteria which is the #1 cause of food poisoning in the USA as Dr. G has covered several times. Furthermore, cooked or uncooked, the saturated fat and cholesterol in eggs is associated with high risk for disease and premature death, which is seen with as little as 1.5 eggs per week.

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