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How to Lower Phthalate Exposure Through Diet

Phthalates are hormone-disrupting plastics chemicals linked to a number of adverse health effects, such as disturbing infant and child development, and, in adults, may affect reproductive health in men and endometriosis in women, and is associated with increased abdominal fat in both. “Given the increasing scientific evidence base linking phthalate exposure with harmful health outcomes, it is important to understand major sources of exposure,” which I discuss in my video What Diet Best Lowers Phthalate Exposure?.

What is the most major exposure source? Diet. If you have people stop eating for a few days, you get a significant drop in the amount of phthalates spilling out in their urine. One can only fast for so long, though. Thankfully, we can see similar drops just from eating a plant-based diet for a few days, which gives us a clue as to where most phthalates are found.

The highest levels are found in meats, fats, and dairy. Poultry consistently comes out as being the most contaminated across the board with some of the highest levels ever reported, though there are geographic exceptions. In the United Kingdom, for example, fish came out worse than poultry, and, in Belgium, nothing appears to beat out reindeer meat in terms of contamination. In the United States, though, it is poultry, and the finding that egg consumption is also significantly associated with phthalate levels “suggests that chickens themselves may be contaminated” and not just arise from the plastic they’re wrapped in at the store.

The same might not be true with dairy, however. Realizing that these chemicals may be harmful, researchers in Seattle took ten families and randomized them into a five-day complete dietary replacement with fresh organic foods without any packaging. Nothing touched plastic. Organic milk was delivered in glass, and even the crates used to carry the food were wooden instead of plastic. This was like a fasting study to see what role eliminating processed foods would have on lowering phthalate levels because not everyone wants to switch to a plant-based diet—or stop eating completely. In my video, I show a chart depicting where the families started at baseline before changing their diet and where they were a week after the experiment, once again back on their baseline diet. What happened in the middle? When eating fresh and organic food, their phthalate levels went up, “a dramatic and unexpected increase in one of the most toxic phthalates—and not just by a little: It was like a 2000 percent increase. So the researchers tested all the foods. One of the spices was off the chart, and so was the dairy. Most of the phthalates apparently don’t come from the cow, however; they come from the tubing. If you milk cows by hand (which even the Amish don’t do anymore) the levels of phthalates in the milk are low, but if the same cows are milked by machine, the milk picks up phthalates from the tubing. As such, the final levels may depend more on the tubing than on what the cows are fed.

We’re not sure where the chickens are getting contaminated with phthalates, though. While that study was done on adults, we learned more recently where our kids may be getting it. Researchers found pretty much the same thing: mostly meat, including poultry and fish. Again, poultry appeared to be the worst, while soy consumption was associated with significantly lower levels. But what kind of exposure are we talking about? Researchers calculated what may be typical exposures for infants, teens, and women. How do these data compare with current guidelines? The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s reference dose, which is like the maximum acceptable threshold, is 20 µg/kg-day, based on liver risk. Europe places their maximum daily intake for testicular toxicity at 50 µg/kg-day. So a typical infant diet exceeds the EPA’s safety level, “while a diet high in meat and dairy was over this threshold by approximately four times. For adolescents, a diet high in meat and dairy also exceeded the EPA’s reference dose.” Indeed, diets high in meat and dairy consumption resulted in a two-fold increase in exposure. And “[a]ll diets for all groups exceeded the allowable daily intakes (ADI) derived by the US Consumer Product Safety Commission” for problems with sperm production, while diets high in meat and dairy consumption may exceed the allowable intake for risk of reproductive birth defects as well.


For more information on dietary sources of phthalates, I encourage you to watch both Chicken Consumption and the Feminization of Male Genitalia and Lowering Dietary Antibiotic Intake. Diet isn’t the only way one can be exposed internally, though. See my video Avoiding Adult Exposure to Phthalates, which discusses the risk in both children’s and adult toys.

In health,
Michael Greger, M.D.

PS: If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my free videos here and watch my live, year-in-review presentations:

Discuss

Michael Greger M.D., FACLM

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM, is a physician, New York Times bestselling author, and internationally recognized professional speaker on a number of important public health issues. Dr. Greger has lectured at the Conference on World Affairs, the National Institutes of Health, and the International Bird Flu Summit, testified before Congress, appeared on The Dr. Oz Show and The Colbert Report, and was invited as an expert witness in defense of Oprah Winfrey at the infamous "meat defamation" trial.


81 responses to “How to Lower Phthalate Exposure Through Diet

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  1. Interesting.

    What about all those people consuming distilled/RO/filtered water? Don’t they get high levels of phthalates in their drinking and cooking water from the plastic tubing and containers that those systems usually employ?

    Does anybody know?

    1. Good question Mr.Fumblefingers! I would also like to know as I have RO filtration at home for our water source. However, I wonder if it has to do with fats? I believe certain chemicals are found in fat, perhaps the fat in the milk and animal bodies is the part absorbing the phthalates?

    2. Of course they do. Touching plastic = phthalate leeching.

      The study apparently overlooks phthalate contamination from the inner lining of cans.
      What about “BPA-free”? Meaningless marketing gimmick. Industry simply substitutes another phthalate compound for BPA, something like DEHP, DINP, MEHP and a dozen others at their disposal, without saying. They have to use something.

      Phthalate exposure may be associated with diabetes and insulin resistance, breast cancer, obesity, metabolic disorders and immune function.

    3. What about all those people consuming distilled/RO/filtered water? Don’t they get high levels of phthalates in their drinking and cooking water from the plastic tubing and containers that those systems usually employ?
      —————————————————————
      Good question, especially since there was a connection with milking machines. Being an ardent distiller I go through a gallon distiller about once every three years or so before something goes wrong and I have to buy another. I remember some of my first ones had plastic domes and that concerned me because I had a vehement dislike for plastic.

      But the manufacturers took our complaints to heart and started making the dome out of stainless steel and the spouts coming from the copper tubing also out of stainless steel. They still sent a plastic container for capturing the distilled drips of water, but I throw those things away and use a gallon glass
      jar to capture my water in. Then I pour it into gallon glass jugs using a glass funnel before pouring into a glass container for drinking and a glass or ceramic cup when making cold-brewed tea.

      I don’t know… maybe the copper tubing imparts something to the water, although this has been the metal of choice for distilling even since the moonshine days. But generally speaking, I think this procedure has at least lowered any exposure to phthalates in what I drink, at least.

      Obviously the units I’m describing aren’t those counter-top distilling units that on the outside appear to have more plastic than anything else in their composition.
      I’m not talking abo

      1. For this reason we ditched our automatic coffee maker with its plastic well and plastic tubing and learned the pour-over method.

          1. You can buy a porcelain filter holder that fits over a coffee mug or carafe for about $20. You use a paper or gold mesh filter that fits inside and slowly pour hot water over the coffee grounds. Makes great coffee!

            1. That’s what I do too. BOiling water in plastic coffee makers means you’re drinking a lot of plastic every day. I put the coffee grounds into a pyrex measuring cup for awhile, then pour it through a filter into a ceramic cup. The filter holder has no plastic in between the holding area and where the coffee flows out.
              John S

          2. Like the others say, Regina.
            My particular way is this:
            Freshly ground organic coffee beans placed into an unbleached paper coffee filter sitting in a glass funnel resting over a glass beaker. Slowly pour the boiling water over the coffee in stages as it drips into the beaker. Takes about 5 minutes total. Use as much or little coffee as you wish.

            1. Dommy,

              I recently purchased an electric tea kettle (I think it has induction heating) with temperature control, and I love it! Stainless steel, with a “gooseneck” pour spot, which makes pouring from it feel so elegant!

      1. I have a regular enema with rubber bottle, but the tube and the insert are plastic. So, what to do?
        Any ideas?

      2. As fas I know there is no scientifically demonstrated benefit from coffee enemas. In fact they can cause life threatening electrlyte imbalances and other problems

        Case reports of adverse events associated with coffee enemas raise concern about their use. Three deaths that seem related to coffee enemas have been reported in the literature. Salmonella enteridis group D and Campylobacter fetus intestinalis were cultured from stool and blood of one patient who died shortly after treatment at the Gerson Institute clinic. This death could not be directly linked to the practice of coffee enemas because more tests could not be performed.[1]

        Case reports of two more deaths following treatment at the Gerson Institute were both attributed to electrolyte imbalance after autopsies were performed showing no active inflammation of the colon.[2]

        A third case report of electrolyte imbalance that did not result in death describes a patient who developed hyperkalemia while undergoing Gerson therapy.[3] No other reports of adverse effects have been identified.”
        https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/hp/gerson-pdq#section/_1

    4. I also would like to know. As I posted earlier I have distiller Reverse Osmosis unit on my counter top.
      It has most of its make in plastic.

    5. I think we can have the water that we run through those units tested for phthalate levels. I’m about to put one in my kitchen and will likely see that the testing includes phthalates. It will probably be awhile still but I’ll post about it afterward.

    1. I’m wondering which spice was “off the chart”?
      ————————————————————–
      Me too.

      1. Ground coriander, but it makes me wonder if all of the spices have been tested.

        It might mean “grind your own” is better.

        Boy, spices being a source could be a problem.

        1. Ground cinnamon and cayenne pepper had concentrations above 700 ng/g, and ground coriander had concentrations of 21,400 ng/g.

        2. Don’t some of those cheap pepper/salt/coffee/spice hand grinders or mills have plastic teeth? They could be a source of contamination.

  2. Fascinating. So, it seems from the information Dr. Gregor compiled, that huge and widespread cause of phthalates found in cow’s milk comes directly from the widespread use of plastic tubing across the milking industry. No matter if the milk is organic or not. It logically follows that the solution is to use a different plastic tubing material as the industry standard.

    How can we go about pushing for that change and an industry wide standard of tubing that doesn’t contain toxic phthalates? Does all flexible plastic contain some amount of phthalates? Is there another product or material already out there that can be a viable substitute?

    Where do we start? What agencies should we appeal to? The EPA, under the current administration is likely not to care. Might be push back from the milk industry itself. Getting the word out to the media would certainly help with awareness and support.
    Is there a good summary source one can include when writing to their legislators?

    Just how serious is the phthalate exposure to humans who consume cows milk or milk products? Do more studies need to be conducted to prove the direct link?

    Lots of questions! Answers?

    1. Does all flexible plastic contain some amount of phthalates?
      ————————————————————————————
      This is a very important question and should be answered here. If Greger’s researchers can uncover all the instances of phthalate exposure, they can surely come up with degrees of risk from products.

      I’ve always thought if I mainly stayed away from cans lined with white plastic I avoided the greatest risk to my health from plastics. And while I would occasionally drink water from a plastic bottle in a pinch, I felt the risk was miniscule.

      But while it seems the BPA risk severity may be somewhat contained, I had no idea that plastic wrap used on meats imparted phthalate risk.

      I get it that NF.o is a food based website, but instead of just concentrating on the intermediary risk (foods touching the risk provider) it would be very helpful to inform us of the sources of the risk and their varying levels of danger.

      1. It has just occurred to me… “they” are killing us… AND WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!

        This is very disconcerting to me.

        1. Lonie,

          Well, we genuinely are all going to die.

          That was true before anybody did anything to make it happen faster.

          From my experience, I, myself am the one who did the most things to potentially shorten my life and when I look at the very aged people, it still does come down to your mother’s voice saying, “Eat your fruit and vegetables.” Organic, yes. But the very elderly people around me never even learned that part. They just did eat more healthy foods.

          1. Well, we genuinely are all going to die.

            That was true before anybody did anything to make it happen faster.
            ———————————————————————————————–
            Heh, Deb,

            I guess you are not a fan of, or believer of, The Singularity?… (A point in the not so distant future when man and machine become one)… when life can be extended indefinitely.

            Honestly, I’m not too much of a fan of that myself. Not because of the longevity but because I don’t want to lose who I am. I think if we become fused into hardware/biologicals we become more or less worker bees… existing for the purpose of doing work. Memories that aren’t work related become irrelevant and non-essential.

            On the other hand, I like the idea of CRISPR cas/9, cas/12 etc. correcting mutations or improperly sequenced code in my genes to cure or prevent a debilitating or death causing disease.

            This is just one of the many things coming that will affect our health sooner than we think.

            I wouldn’t want to give anyone the idea that they can eat or drink anything they please with the expectation of science rescuing them… at least not in the short term.

            I think the opposite is true that we should do all we can to insure we minimize our damage so we will still be around when these miraculous interventions become available.

            1. Lonie,

              There ain’t no way that CRISPR cas/9 is gonna be used for things in our lifetime.

              I was interacting with Bob Dennis at the ICES site and we were talking because someone had posted https://newatlas.com/electricity-wound-dressing-bacterial-biofilms/59754/ and he was talking about how people have been trying to get things like that to be used in medicine since he was in grad school and it still hasn’t happened.

              He is allowing people like me to use his device, but he said that there are only 2 PEMF devices which are official medical devices and those are based on 1976 version of the technology is what I think he said and those require prescriptions and insurance won’t pay for it and I found a researcher who wants the masses to be able to afford things and who has enough of a conscience that he has helped many of the brands, which sell their products for $20,000 and then, he turns around and sells his for as low as $450 to $650 with a few for $1500 depending on which model. He helps the other companies so that they won’t injure people or scam them or wreck the PEMF industry with fake products. If only there were people in power who thought like that.

              1. There ain’t no way that CRISPR cas/9 is gonna be used for things in our lifetime.
                ————————————————————————————————————
                Deb, unless you are dead, then that is not a true and correct statement… because they are using it NOW. We are proceeding more cautiously in the U.S. but even here there is a lady in an escape-free confinement that is unleashing an insect (mosquitos IIRC, that has been altered to not be a carrier of a disease (malaria?) to see how long it takes for the population to be totally made up of CRISPR cas/9-ed mosquitos. It’s called a gene drive.

                In Italy they are using it on humans already.

                In China, it has been used for a couple of years. Remember the birth of a child that had been CRISPR-ed to be genetically protected against AIDS? In fact, this is so close there are teams working on an anti-CRISPR.https://singularityhub.com/2019/05/15/the-hunt-for-a-crispr-antidote-just-heated-up/

                1. I know that there is one child in China and that the government responded by denouncing using it.

                  I also know that they are studying mosquitoes and that they are trying to figure out the potential repercussions of that, but that doesn’t mean they are ready to use it.

                  I had not heard that Italy was using it.

                  The brain plasticity devices which were used in studies 30 years ago still aren’t approved even in the clinical setting.

                  1. When you interact with people in the medical device research end of the process, that is where you will hear that it is not likely to happen.

                    My cousin was in that exciting field his whole career and made a lot of money at it, but did not produce a device, which made it all the way to patients.

                    1. Deb, you are making the mistake of equating your cousin’s experience with a life-on-earth-as-we-know-it technology that can re-arrange the letters of our DNA, the A,G,C,T, of life in our bodies so that they cause our DNA to work in a different way. This will (and is) changing Health Care into Health Repair.

                      And it is world wide so one country slow-marching it through the process will not be able to stop it. Primary decision of who owns the patent has already been decided (although there will likely be a further challenge.)

                      Monsanto has been granted a license some months ago (and may come up with a way to make some of their products less dangerous to the rest of us.)

                      Denial will not stop this from changing everyone’s lives.

      2. All flexible plastic needs “plasticizers” added to it, like phthalates, so that is is not brittle. Green chemistry innovations for cheap, useful, non-endocrine disrupting plasticizers would be welcome.

    2. Answer: Just stop eating dairy. Better yet just eat a WFPB diet like Dr. Greger recommends and avoid cardio, type 2 and cancer. And a whole host of other illnesses.

      1. I’m thinking the knowledge of what containers are riskier is important to WFPB eaters as well. Not everyone can grow all their food under the drip line of their plastic siding house. ‘-)

        1. Lonie,

          I agree.

          I have been thinking about this quite a bit.

          For instance, when the contractors and builders needed to replace copper tubing in my house, they said that everybody is doing plastic now because it doesn’t burst as easily and because people don’t break into your house to steal them and they were cheaper to install, etc. I argued, but every plumber and contractor and professional agreed with them and I have plastic pipes now.

          So, how do I drink water? That becomes such a big question.

          I haven’t solved it.

          Can I boil it and put it in glass containers after?

          Maybe.

          1. Deb, I can only speak from my own beliefs, but to me the more important thing for food and drink safety is distilled water. You can get an affordable distiller model off ebay for ~ $50. The cost of the model I bought just a few months ago (down from a hundred bucks a few years ago.)

            Just boiling the water is not enough, IMO. Sure it kills germs but the impurities are still there.

              1. One person’s ‘impurities’ might be somebody else’s mineral micronutrients. The balance of benefit/harm might depend on your local water supply I suppose

                I have an electric water distiller but never use it because of reports like this:
                —————————————————————————————————
                Tom, I opened your link but it appeared to long and detailed for my attention span… if I could have found the Cliff’s Notes I would know what it was saying.

                And you are correct in referencing my water supply. I have well water and some group or another wanted to check my water and after doing so strongly suggested I not drink that stuff! I explained I hadn’t drank that water in a couple of decades. ‘-)

                The title of your link however had the suggestion that somehow the water from the distiller is not sanitary? I’m sure that was a misconception because distilled water is the most sanitary water on earth.

                But your statement suggests it is all about the micro nutrients. Personally I think those are better consumed via our food and would bet if a WFPB diet were screened for micro nutrients, there would be ample of those found.

                I’ve mentioned here before that I also suspend a magnesium rod into my magnetically charged distilled glass jugs of water. I’ve no proof other than my gut feeling that water changed in this manner is more of a tonic than rehydrator.

                I respect your decision to not use distilled water, especially if you still live in a foreign country (Philippines?) But my sister-in-law was telling recently about a friend who went to Mexico on vacation and drank only bottled water. I interrupted her at that point making the joke “But she still got Montezuma’s Revenge!”… she said “How did you know?” and we had a good laugh over that.

                1. …but it appeared to long…

                  I’m starting to suspect this comment section is changing my posts. I’m careful about making the distinction between to, too, and two. Yet numerous times I see where I’ve (supposedly) written to when it should have been too, in a sentence.

                  Yes I make mistakes but usually not the same one over and over expecting a different result.

                  I’m thinking I’m gonna have to set up a camera recording my screen as I type in order to see if there is an AI in my machine… or in the forum algorithm itself.

                  1. Thanks Lonie.

                    The link was to a WHO report on water. It is quite long but I found it useful.

                    Personally I find that I make plenty of typos and my keyboard, Windows 10 and the NF software regularly alter what I intend to write anyway. On the rare occasions that I edit my comments before posting I find plenty of errors that I wasn’t aware that I had made.

                    No offence intended but you may be like me in that respect.

          2. when the contractors and builders needed to replace copper tubing in my house, they said that everybody is doing plastic now because it doesn’t burst as easily and because people don’t break into your house to steal them and they were cheaper to install, etc.
            ———————————————————————————————————–
            Yeah, they use PolyVinylChloride (PVC) pipe nowadays. That’s all the more reason to distill any water for consumption. I’m on a water well so I buy Reverse Osmosis water from a machine in town and bring it home for distillation.

            But for general household use, I recommend a whole house RO system if one can afford it… otherwise, maybe just a partial system that supplies a shower or bath where the water often comes in contact with one’s skin. Maybe a well maintained city water supply would make even this unnecessary.

            1. when the contractors and builders needed to replace copper tubing in my house,
              ———————————————————–
              forgot to mention this little tidbit that you might find interesting. I had a small pinhole in some copper tubing and the person doing some other repairs asked me if there was a pipeline anywhere close.

              I told him there was an underground pipeline (oil or natural gas… not sure which) about a quarter to half mile from my house. He told me that they use strong magnets on those and that even that far away would cause my copper pipes to erode.

              That was some years ago and I’ve had many copper pipe failures since. But instead of the pipeline, I suspect my problem arises from the many magnets I have scattered throughout the house.

    1. Barb,

      Yes, I did, too, but it wasn’t easy peasy.

      I had to give up coffee and lattes.

      I tried all of the Plant-milks and none of them tasted right.

      It is easy peasy now and now a year after drinking soy milk in my green tea latte, I can finally drink my coffee with oat milk.

      I still can’t do a regular latte, but I am happy that I can drink coffee again.

      1. Deb,

        Years ago, I was complaining to a co-worker that the coffee cream at work was going off, and he asked, Why did I even add it? Then he extolled the taste of plain “black” coffee, freshly brewed, so artfully that I couldn’t wait to try it. And he was right! I’ve been drinking it black ever since.

        I’d already stopped using sugar or any other sweetener in an attempt to lose weight (practicing portion control, making healthier choices, etc and it worked).

        Since I stopped consuming dairy products, I have used soy milk for cappuccinos, both at home and when in a coffee shop. My soy milk is plain — the only ingredients are soybeans and water — but the soy milk in a coffee shop is flavored and sweetened, so it’s an occasional “treat.” Both taste fine to me.

  3. Dr Greger,
    In the article above about Phthalates you mentioned a study where families were given fresh organic food without any wrapping for some time . You also mentioned that a certain spice measured through the roof for phthalates in the determination of what was causing elevated levels of phthalates in those families. What was that spice?
    Thanks
    Regina

    1. Hello Regina and thank you for your question,

      I am a family doctor and also volunteer for Dr. Greger on this website. Quick answer: ground coriander. You can see the highlighted text showing this at the 2:55 mark of the video he references:
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/what-diet-best-lowers-phthalate-exposure/

      Unfortunately, I don’t know what brand of ground coriander they used. Here is a link to the full text article that he references: https://www.nature.com/articles/jes20139

      — here is a link to Table 4 of that article: https://www.nature.com/articles/jes20139/tables/4
      It shows that the “DEHP” levels (the main phthalate compound studied) were higher (by far) in ground coriander than in any of the other foods tested.

      I hope this helps.
      Dr. Jon
      PhysicianAssistedWellness.com
      Health Support Volunteer for NutritionFacts.org

  4. Seems we have all become lab rats struggling to stay afloat in the man made chemical soup of our industrial/consumer society. Without people like Dr Greger who delve into the myriad of modern heath challenges and issues, most people would remain oblivious and blithely trust the powers that be to work for our benefit and care about our welfare. When profit is the primary driving force, the only agency looking out for our best interests… is us. I hate the paranoid connotation of “trust no one”, but we do need a healthy dose of reality to protect ourselves and loved ones and become the most effective guardians of our own well being. The best healthcare will always be selfcare, and there is a lot to be said for just simplifying our unnatural lives where we can.

  5. Polyester is a type of plastic too. Think how much contact we have with it. It might be wrinkle free but it’s made from chemicals so it is synthetic. We sleep on it, wear it and outgassing occurs when we dry it . Our water comes out of plastic, we bathe in it and drink it , think about Teflon too, some cook in it. .
    I give up! We do the best we can by WFPB, cotton clothes, well water. Oh well! Be well friends.

    1. Polyester is a type of plastic too. Think how much contact we have with it. It might be wrinkle free but it’s made from chemicals so it is synthetic. We sleep on it, wear it and outgassing occurs when we dry it . Our water comes out of plastic, we bathe in it and drink it , think about Teflon too, some cook in it. .
      I give up! We do the best we can by WFPB, cotton clothes, well water. Oh well! Be well friends.
      —————————————————————————
      Ruthie, I completely agree. I was offered a free full house new carpet (by my sister) and turned it down because of the off-gassing of formaldehyde and other Volatile Organic Compounds. The carpet I have here now is probably 30 years old and doesn’t actually show much wear, plus it has surely passed the off-gassing stage. And I quit Teflon or any other utensil coatings years ago. I’ve also converted to cotton clothing long ago but will switch to Hemp clothing when it is more available and affordable. I just think cotton undergoes to many chemical processes (like dying for instance.)

      But here’s the kicker… I live alone and good health is my primary focus. Most people have very busy lives that are focused on work and family, so they don’t have the freedom I have to live eccentrically. Even my friends aren’t like minded, but thankfully, remain friends anyway.

      A side note… I have a neighbor who has the whole family/business thing. And I think he envies me. His wife must have sensed this because anytime he stops by for a visit, she calls him to come home for some reason or another.

      He’s a good man and she doesn’t want him deviating from his role as dutiful husband and father to become some off-the-grid pioneer. ‘-)

      1. “so they don’t have the freedom I have to live eccentrically.”

        Us older ones lived in a world which valued eccentric.

        Young people value it, too, but their eccentric can be purple and blue and fuschia hair and other things, which are not so health-promoting.

        It makes me laugh because when I lived out in California, I remember particularly one homeless man who wanted me to come live with him and he would take care of me and he asked if I was “free” and freedom to him was quite free.

        My thought was something about yeah, you make all of those promises now, but tonight, when you want to make love to me next to the dumpster I already fast forward to me wanting to get free from being quite so free.

        1. Not trying to put your version of eccentric down. You are doing a very nice version of it.

          I watched a show yesterday where a woman designed a perfect house. I looked at it and said, “Yes” we could all have smarter than smart houses without technology at all.

          I can only imagine what this country would have been like if it were people who respected nature and cared about human beings and animals and natural resources and who had common sense had started it.

          1. I watched a show yesterday where a woman designed a perfect house.
            ———————————————————————————————
            My next home will be a geodesic dome… with enough windows oriented to provide ample sunlight to grow lush ground covers as flooring except for a few wood covered spaces for office, food preparation area, entertainment area etc.

            This comment probably doesn’t qualify as food related but for me anyway, would greatly affect my state of mind.

  6. Is it legal to sell ground coriander, for example, with “off the charts” levels. What protects the public from buying that product and reputable Vegan caterers from using it accidentally?

  7. From the Invisalign website: Invisalign aligners and Vivera Retainers do not contain Bisphenol-A or phthalate plasticizers. These aligners and retainers are made with USP Class VI medical grade, high molecular weight, polyurethane resins.

    1. From the Invisalign website: Invisalign aligners and Vivera Retainers do not contain Bisphenol-A or phthalate plasticizers.
      —————————————————-
      At least they seem to be aware… I’m guessing they are complying with the latest science so it sounds to me like you should be good to go.

      I’m curious if anyone reading might be aware of anything, some sort of mouthwash or protective coating one could swish around before installing the retainers, just to be extra safe?

  8. When I was a kid (I’m 55 now) I remember milk was still being sold in glass bottles and cold-cuts (I do not eat) were wrapped in heavy paper. At some point the paper went away and the cold-cuts were wrapped in plastic and put in plastic zip-lock bags. Cookies and crackers were put in a cardboard box with no inner plastic bag. You can still buy stick butter in paper/cardboard packaging.

    At some point we have to do away with all this plastic. Perhaps technology will create a balance by using trucks that are electric powered or at least hybrid, to offset fuel delivery costs, and return to using glass packaging and recycled cardboard with some type of organic “wax” to maintain freshness.

    How was meat, fish, and chicken packaged back in the 1940-1950’s? Did they use plastic back then and is todays plastics more harmful?

    1. At some point we have to do away with all this plastic. Perhaps technology will create a balance by using trucks that are electric powered or at least hybrid, to offset fuel delivery costs, and return to using glass packaging and recycled cardboard with some type of organic “wax” to maintain freshness.

      How was meat, fish, and chicken packaged back in the 1940-1950’s?
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      hi jack,

      like you I prefer glass and even cardboard to petroleum based plastics. I’m hoping that new bio-plastics made from products like Industrial Hemp will be something without chemicals that are harmful.

      As far as how chicken was packaged during the ’40s and ’50s, where I lived they were stored live and processed just before use. Great fun using a straightened clothes hangar to hook the chicken du jour by the feet before plucking, gutting and cooking. The stinking bit of plucking the wet feathers off the chicken and then singeing off of the pin feathers over an open flame wasn’t fun at all… but back then we didn’t normally equate work and fun.

      The meat from the milk pen calf we took to the local meat processor would usually be wrapped in white butcher’s paper for putting in the freezer. Don’t know about fish as we weren’t fishermen.

      Waxed paper was used for left-over meats put in the refrigerator.

        1. Jack, I’m from a rather small town ~ 25,000 population for years, and if I remember correctly we had a Safeway and a few locally owned grocery stores. Not sure about the Safeway but one store I am familiar with had their own butcher.

          We had a meat packing house that would buy animals fit for slaughter from the sale barn next door and butcher them. I suspect they would furnish cuts of meat to grocers and individuals could come in and buy what they wanted as well. You could also bring your own animal to them and they would slaughter and cut it up for you. That’s how we got our meat and put it up in the freezer for years, as we milked our own cows and slaughtered the milk-fed calf after it got to about 600 lbs.

          Not sure about the chicken… probably shipped in. But for my very early years, we would raise and kill our own chickens as needed.

          We were cotton farmers and when harvest season came ’round we had braceros bused in from Mexico to pick the cotton. (Dad drove one of those buses making the 600 mile round trip sometimes in a day and with very little sleep would make another trip… I went with him once as a little kid when taking the workers back to Mexico and we traveled the Comstock highway route. There are dips and turns and Dad would have that large, packed school bus leaning on the turns and when he would hit some of the dips our stomachs would bounce up off our throat. Me and the braceros as well would let out oohs and ahhhs and Dad would just smile.)

          But I digress… sorry for the tangent. Anyway, when the weather would turn cold Dad would buy a hog and bring it home and he, my older brothers, and any farmhands we had at the time would (as a friend of mine used to say) cut a fat hog in the ass. The meat would get shared between our family and the farmhands. I do remember buckets of lard but I think those came from somewhere in town.

          You mentioned fish earlier but me and the brother just older than me would go to a fresh water pond we had for the cows to drink from, and cork fish sometimes. There were no actual fish in the pond but there were turtles. We would catch them and then throw them back in.

          Jack, thanks for asking the question. I hadn’t thought about this stuff for a long time.

          For anyone who’s here just for facts, mea culpa.

          1. Lonie, what an amazing background you’ve had! And (because of it?), what an about-face life you’ve now made, diet-wise. I’m thinking of the many different concoctions you “brew” for yourself every day, etc.

            People seem to forget, though, that the animal foods we ate — methinks most of the folks at this site grew up eating animal foods — gave us the reasonably healthy bodies we have today. True, the SAD has resulted in many horror stories, but once we realize that our thoughts create our realities, we finally learn not to eat all the garbage stuff.

            Has Dr. G. done any research regarding people who grew to the age of 21 eating nothing but a NAD –“No Animal Diet”? (Other than breast milk.)

            1. A very good question about the early life diet. Apparently IGF-1 is a growth stimulator, thus not needed in later life. But early on, I think the IGF-1 found in milk products and meats are quite necessary for a child to reach their height before they stop growing. After stopping growth, I firmly believe avoiding IGF-1 is an important step to keep from promoting Cancer growth.

              I recall reading some years ago, that since getting more animal products in their diet, the Chinese population was increasing their height across the board.

              Personally I’m not so sure that is a good thing. If I stretch I can measure 5’8″. The more I learn, the less I care to stretch but am comfortable measuring only 5′ 7 1/2″… probably because I read somewhere that shorter people live longer.

              Still, I’m not advocating for or against consumption of animal products. I think this is a good place to get the NAD (as you call it) information.

              But to your question, I think it would be good to know how people fed all their lives without animal products fare later in life. I suppose there are some undiscovered islands that are home to such people for a population study, too.

              1. Lonie, if the undiscovered dwellers live on an island, I’d think they eat fish. It could be human instinct (or their cellular memories) that might cause them to do this.

              2. Lonie, what about the children who get cancer or the increases that are now seen in childhood diabetes and arteriosclerosis? I don’t think the SAD does them any favors.

                As for the island, how about those people in Okinawa, Japan who ate the traditional Okinawan diet?

                https://nutritionfacts.org/2018/01/11/what-do-the-longest-living-people-eat/

                And while, not on an island, as is described in the above blog: “The Adventist vegetarians in California have perhaps the highest life expectancy of any formally described population.”

                1. Lonie, what about the children who get cancer or the increases that are now seen in childhood diabetes and arteriosclerosis? I don’t think the SAD does them any favors.
                  —————————————————————————————————————–
                  Hi J Moseman, I assume your statement is a response to my statement:

                  “A very good question about the early life diet. Apparently IGF-1 is a growth stimulator, thus not needed in later life. But early on, I think the IGF-1 found in milk products and meats are quite necessary for a child to reach their height before they stop growing. After stopping growth, I firmly believe avoiding IGF-1 is an important step to keep from promoting Cancer growth.”

                  To that point, YR and I were referring to a time in the past when food of all kinds were different than they are now, but that in itself doesn’t suffice as an answer to your question.

                  But even using modern day IGF-1 promoting foods that are safely and conscientiously prepared can do a child good… that is, grow to a proper height without having to use growth hormone as the child of a friend of mine had to do.

                  Also, keep in mind that the Cancer cases, childhood diabetes and arteriosclerosis that you referenced need to be controlled for environment, water quality, exposures to poor diet and other contributing factors.

                  There’s no denying that the blue zone people (are the Blue Men blue zone people? ‘-) test out healthier as a population, but the SDAs are probably a genetic-religious population.

                  Except for Southern Bar-b-que Bustin’ Baptists, religion might actually be a healthy longevity factor.

                  And the Okinawans? One should check on how many calories they consume… that may actually be their prime factor in longevity.

  9. In fact, here is the story. I’m feeling worn out today. Here’s my game plan. I don’t have to have to get medieval on your butt. Last decade seems to be when this happened, but I’m glad it did. Fettle Ride You are advised against taking any exceptional risks. You’re not seeing the results that you want. It makes me green with envy.

    I do it year in and year out. It is a lost opportunity. I ought to focus more on Weight Loss Diet. That is big question with Weight Loss Diet. They want to feel outside the box. There are problems with that. It is almost impossible to fail. Though in a sense, this took a little effort. Several dollars are being poured into finding a new fat loss.

    http://www.fettleride.com/

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