Image Credit: Micheal F. Weinberg / Flickr. This image has been modified.

What a Single Fatty Meal Can Do to Our Arteries

The phenomenon of postprandial angina was described more than 200 years ago: chest pain that occurs after a meal, even if you’re just sitting down and resting. This could be intuitively attributed to redistribution of blood flow away from the heart to the gut during digestion. However, such a mechanism could not be demonstrated experimentally.

The problem appears to be within the coronary arteries themselves. The clue came in 1955 when researchers found they could induce angina in people with heart disease just by having them drink fat. My video Fatty Meals May Impair Artery Function includes a fascinating graph of so-called lactescence, or milkiness, over time. It shows how their blood became increasingly milky with fat over the next five hours, and each of the ten attacks of angina was found to occur about four-and-a-half to five hours after the fatty meal, right when blood milkiness was at or near its peak. After a nonfat meal with the same bulk and calories, but made out of starch, sugar, and protein, no anginal pain was elicited in any of the patients.

To understand how the mere presence of fat in the blood can affect blood flow to the heart, we need to understand the endothelium, the inner lining of all of our blood vessels. Our arteries are not just rigid pipes; they are living, breathing organs that actively dilate or constrict, thinning or thickening the blood and releasing hormones, depending on what’s needed. This is all controlled by the single inner layer, the endothelium, which makes it the body’s largest endocrine (hormone-secreting) organ. When it’s all gathered up, the endothelium weighs a total of three pounds and has a combined surface area of 700 square yards.

We used to think the endothelium was just an inert layer lining our vascular tree, but now we know better.

Researchers found that low-fat meals tend to improve endothelial function, whereas high-fat meals tend to worsen it. This goes for animal fat, as well as isolated plant fats, such as sunflower oil. But, maybe it’s just the digestion of fat rather than the fat itself? Our body can detect the presence of fat in the digestive tract and release a special group of hormones and enzymes. Researchers tried feeding people fake fat and found that the real fat deprived the heart of blood while the fake fat didn’t. Is our body really smart enough to tell the difference?

A follow-up study settled the issue. Researchers tried infusing fat directly into people’s bloodstream through an IV to sneak it past your mouth and brain. Within hours, their arteries stiffened, significantly crippling their ability to relax and dilate normally. So, it was the fat after all! This decrease in the ability to vasodilate coronary arteries after a fatty meal, just when you need it, could explain the phenomenon of after-meal angina in patients with known coronary artery disease.


This effect could certainly help explain the findings in Low Carb Diets and Coronary Blood Flow. My video Olive Oil and Artery Function addresses less refined fats like extra virgin olive oil.

For more on angina, see the beginning of my 2014 annual talk—From Table to Able: Combating Disabling Diseases with Food—and How Not to Die from Heart Disease.

Another consequence of endothelial dysfunction is lack of blood flow to other organs. Check out Survival of the Firmest: Erectile Dysfunction and Death and Atkins Diet: Trouble Keeping It Up.

Fat in the bloodstream can also impair our ability to control blood sugar levels. Learn more with What Causes Insulin Resistance?The Spillover Effect Links Obesity to Diabetes, and Lipotoxicity: How Saturated Fat Raises Blood Sugar.

Finally, for more on how diet affects our arteries, check out Tea and Artery Function, Vinegar and Artery Function, and Plant-Based Diets and Artery Function.

In health,

Michael Greger, M.D.

PS: If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my free videos here and watch my live, year-in-review presentations:

 

Discuss

Michael Greger M.D., FACLM

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM, is a physician, New York Times bestselling author, and internationally recognized professional speaker on a number of important public health issues. Dr. Greger has lectured at the Conference on World Affairs, the National Institutes of Health, and the International Bird Flu Summit, testified before Congress, appeared on The Dr. Oz Show and The Colbert Report, and was invited as an expert witness in defense of Oprah Winfrey at the infamous "meat defamation" trial.


301 responses to “What a Single Fatty Meal Can Do to Our Arteries

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  1. Nuts too .are high in fat , maybe they should be very limited ? I guess I’m really thinking about the peanut butter the grand kids consume .




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      1. The good doctor has covered nuts in other videos. You can search for them. Nuts are also included in his ‘Daily Dozen’ phone app. So you’re supposed to eat some nuts every day.




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    1. All of the major nut studies have been funded by the nut industry. There have been no large-scale, independent studies performed on nuts.

      In my opinion, nuts have not been proven to be safe. If you are going to eat nuts, it is probably best to eat as few as possible, definitely no more than 1 oz (28g) per day at the absolute most. Personally I think it’s safest to eat none until independent science can verify their safety.

      There are plenty of plant-based doctors who advise against nuts, like Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr. MD, Neal Barnard MD, and John McDougall MD. In a recent interview, Dr. Esselstyn discussed a newer analysis of the PREDIMED study that showed nut consumers had cardiovascular disease (CVD) rates on par with oil consumers. This is compared to those with no nut or oil consumption who had less CVD.

      Here is a link to the video. The quote is toward the end of the interview. The whole thing is worth watching:

      Caldwell Esselstyn interviewed by Niko Rittenau

      Dr. Neal Barnard also claims in his new book The Cheese Trap and recent interviews that nuts may make type 2 diabetes worse and may in fact be involved in causing it. Read the book or search YouTube for “Neal Barnard Cheese Trap.” A lot of videos will come up, and they’re all worth watching.

      Regardless of their effect on your health, nuts will make you fat. If you’re eating a whole food, plant-based diet and can’t lose those last 20 pounds, quit nuts and watch the weight disappear. Even an ounce a day can make you fat.

      Bottom line is that the nut industry is a powerful, multinational force that wants you to eat nuts. For now there is no unbiased science. I would be cautious, because nothing is more important than your health.




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      1. I used to be 100 pounds heavier than I am now. I now eat about 4 or 5 ounces a day of nuts and they have NOT caused me to gain any weight, nor have they caused my LDL cholesterol or triglycerides to rise, either. I actually lost a bit more weight while eating this many nuts. I DO bicycle everyday. I did find that cutting out chocolate candies did cause me to lose a bit more weight however. I also count calories and do not let the nuts put me into a calorie surplus. I don’t agree with that “fruit makes you fat’ OR “nuts make you fat.”




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        1. I also eat 3 bananas everyday, so obviously fruit doesn’t make me fat, either. I could see possibly OILS could make a person fat, since it is pure calories with no nutritional value. Refined sugar could also be similarly fattening, but they contain no nutritional value. Nuts and seeds have a LOT of nutritional value.




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            1. This study is worthless for a variety of reasons.

              First, it was funded by the California Walnut Commission.

              Second, the people in this study were obese at the beginning of the study and obese at the end of the study. They also had metabolic syndrome at the beginning of the study and at the end of the study. There were no gross improvements in health.

              Third, endothelium function barely improved. In some walnut subjects, there was no change at all. In some control subjects, there was an improvement.

              Why do people not believe studies funded by Dairy Management Inc. but swallow any industry-funded plant study hook, line, and sinker?




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              1. Do you know of studies NOT funded by the nut industry which shows that nuts and seeds impair endothelial function as well as inexorably lead to weight gain? It is true that many studies NOT funded by the dairy and/or egg industry DO find harm in eggs and at least full fat dairy, whereas industry funded research tends to exonerate eggs and dairy. Is the same true for nuts and seeds?




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              2. Also, it was intended that subjects remained obese throughout this study. David Katz, who was on the principal investigator for this study, is someone I would trust. After reading many of his columns in the Huffington Post, I am convinced of his objectivity. He doesn’t always agree with the Vegan view but he doesn’t always agree with Paleo either.




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      2. I eat plenty of nuts, seeds and avocado and have a BMI of 19. But I also exercise a lot. Dr. Fuhrman states in his The End of Heart Disease that among the 7th Day Adventists, the only ones who outlived the omnivores were those who ate nuts. He is very much in favor of eating plenty of nuts and seeds consistent with a healthy/optimal body weight.

        Thanks for the pointers to Esselstyn and Barnard. At this point, I think the jury is still out on this issue.




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        1. My takeaway from Dr. Fuhrman is nuts are healthy but they should be eaten as condiments and not as snacks. So I would fine tune your statement that he thinks people should eat lots of nuts.




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          1. Here, https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/39/nuts-and-seeds-essential-for-good-health-and-weight-loss, Joel Fuhrman states that perhaps persons trying to lose weight should limit nuts and seeds to an ounce each day, but a slim, active person, like myself, could eat more. If I am advising someone on weight loss, I usually advise no more than 1/4 cup or an ounce a day. But it would be good to eat that one ounce, for instance on a salad, to absorb the fat soluble nutrients. It would be healthier than a salad dressing. He also quoted the Nurses Health Study which established some health benefits for nuts and seeds. This study probably wasn’t funded by the nut industry, since it didn’t just study nuts.




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          2. Hi Denise,
            I think the information below justifies my use of the term “plenty” and argues against characterizing Dr. Fuhrman’s position as nuts/seeds “should be eaten as condiments”. He does state they should always be eaten with meals as the fat is needed to facilitate nutrient absorption, and perhaps for other reasons e.g. to prevent overindulgence. So we agree on that.

            In The End of Heart Disease, his most recent book, he says: “The Nutritarian diet-style is vegetable-based but also includes whole grains, fruits, beans, nuts, and seeds. It allows significant leeway in the proportional amounts of healthy, whole plant foods, deriving about 15– 25 percent of calories from fat (mostly from nuts and seeds).” … “I recommend 1– 2 tablespoons of flaxseeds and/ or chia seeds daily, plus 1– 3 ounces of raw seeds and nuts (depending on caloric needs), plus about 200– 300 milligrams of DHA-EPA, preferably not fish oil.”

            On average, an ounce of nuts is ~180 calories and a TBL of ground flaxseed is ~50 calories.. So on the lowest end, his recommendation is to eat ~230 calories from nuts/seeds. On a 2000 cal/day diet, the low end would provide ~12% of calories, excluding the fat obtained from other whole food sources or a DHA supplement, which would presumably bring the total up to at least ~15% total, his recommended minimum. . On the very high end, his diet would provide ~850 calories from nuts/seeds, which on a 2000 cal/day day diet, amounts to ~42% of calories from fat. And the average of the low and high ends would result in ~28% cals from fat on 2000 cals/day.

            Also of interest on this topic is his recent interview at the Plant-Based Diet Symposium
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJC0iXF4BMA

            where around the 36 minute mark, he describes his views on nuts/seeds and fat intake (high fat, lower carb vs low fat higher carb).




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      3. Concerned Citizen,
        The Esselstyn interview is excellent. Note that he says that for heart disease patients, he allows 1 or 2 TBL flaxseed or chia seed, but has some restraint on nuts and avocado. For those without heart disease, he has “no restraint” on nuts (~ 11 min into the interview).

        With respect to the PREDIMED study, which I have not read, although he does say that the different groups had equivalent incidences of heart disease, he does not discuss the possibility that some other factor dominates the outcomes e.g. animal protein (which Campbell singles out as worse than saturated fat). Because of that, I was not sure what to conclude. Perhaps others know more specifically what can be concluded from that study,




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    1. I suffered from restless leg syndrome. It was horrible. 3 weeks ago I completely eliminated oil from my diet (I am a vegan since last 6 years but used VERY small quantity of oil for cooking)
      Trust me, the rls has completely disappeared!




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      1. Hey, that is interesting!
        I’ve been vegan for years, and had RLS, but about four months ago drastically cut back on oils, and salt, in my cooking. I have noticed an improvement in the RLS, with just occasional symptoms. I had been taking magnesium glycinate and taurine which seems to help. Maybe I’ll put it to the test and stop the supplements and see how the RLS goes.




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    2. Does magnesium help restless legs, the way it does leg cramps in bed? Of course, you get plenty of magnesium from eating lots of leafy greens, but how many people out there do that?




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      1. Rebecca,

        yes, magnesium if helpful for restless legs syndrome. Magnesium-l-threonate may in theory be even better.

        And Marilyn is right, it depends on the soil.

        Have a nice day,

        Moderator Adam P.




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      2. Rebecca,

        You many indeed benefit from a chelated magnesium supplement regarding your RLS. That’s not to say eat less greens but rather that your needs may exceed your food intake. In our practice we have seen this approach be effective for many patients.

        In the literature you will find a number of references: EWG

        link-between-magnesium-and-rls

        To name two. Keep in mind that there are a number of different forms of magnesium, some of which will cause loose bowels (mag citrate primarily) and that the key is the dose. A little can go a long way…..

        Dr. Alan Kadish moderator for Dr. Greger http://www.Centerofhealth.com




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    3. I suffered debilitating intermittent claudication in my left lower leg for years. !00% improvement following a WFPB diet for just four weeks. I’ve been pain free for years now.




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    1. In an anectodal experiment done by lab scientists, the amount of fat in a single cheeseburger was sufficient to cause milkiness or lipemia in a blood sample taken a couple of hours later. Such lipemia in a blood specimen may interfere in some lab tests, not only for lipids. Hence a 12 hr fast before blood draw is commonly recommended. These scientists also found that concurrently taking 400 U natural Vitamin E as d-alpha-tocopherol prevented milkiness for unknown reasons. Taking the daily Vitamin E supplement along with a fatty meal may be advisable even without knowing if it helps in all persons.




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    2. Available evidence suggests that added isolated fats, like oils, are unhealthy. In addition, if you eat a WFPB diet, you’ll get about 10% of calories from fat, which is what you evolved to handle. Nuts are high in fat but the fat is not likely absorbed very much. Stick to these guidelines and you’ll be good.

      Dr. Ben




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  2. Is the fat worse than the cholesterol in this regard? I notice that if I eat cooked cholesterol products there seems to be labored breathing but when raw, such as in sushi, no issues.




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  3. Let’s say a 30 year old who eats “conventionally” reads the headline for this article, “What a Single Fatty Meal Can Do to Our Arteries”. Perhaps they think to themselves, “What’s the problem?! I’ve eaten thousands of fatty meals in my life, no problem.” Note: I, the writer of this comment, eat about 98% of my meals as vegan/whole foods, and am probably in the 10th percentile of United Stateseans when it comes to how little extracted oils I eat, so I’m not dissing the facts, just the headline. Why? Because someone near and dear to me is that 30 year old. Consider that major-enough newspapers (video media too?) hire an “Headlines Editor” to come up with headlines for stories. That’s how important a headline (or in nutritionfacts case, a Subject Heading) is. Thank you immensely for your work, Dr. G., and everyone else involved in this “venture”.




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    1. I would think the video “Atkins Diet, Trouble keeping it up” listed above below the article would settle the matter.

      I did fall into the Protein Power trap when that book came out. What was most remarkable was that my hands and wrists became swollen and painful with acute arthritis, my breath smelled awful, I was constipated and my urine was ammonia smelling.

      And then I had forgotten that experience and did the Bernstein Diet and could not hold a pot without pain.

      I stopped the meat overdosing and right away (one week or less) the symptoms resolved in both scenarios. That was me, others may have no issues at all, but it was a dramatic lesson to me about the power of food to heal me or poison me.

      Incidentally, I have since smelled the bad breath and the protein crowd and totally understand why. Dr. Greger has great videos explaining why all those symptoms happen.

      A proud monthly supporter of Nutritionfacts.org




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      1. Dr. Mercola doesn’t recommend the Atkins diet. He does not recommend a lot of protein for one thing, I agree that it would be interesting and informative for Doctors Gregor and Mercola to ‘have it out’.




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      2. Dr Adkins died after a fall and injury on an icy NYC sidewalk. Autopsy findings, suppressed by his family and his organization, showed that his arteries and heart had massive fatty deposits or congestion possibly contributing to his fall suggesting that his carnivore high-fat high-protein diet may have short term benefits, at best, but should be avoided long term.




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    2. In stead of getting influenced by different theories, we should apply logic. We humans can’t extract a single drop of oil without using machinery (in olden times, the help of a bull and huge stone wheel). We must assume that oil does not exist for eating.




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        1. Extraction via digestion would seem to be very different than consuming oil that’s been extracted mechanically and separated from the plant matter.




          15
        2. The body is designed to extract fat from whole foods. Consumption of extracted oil is a situation no human being would ever encounter in natural settings.




          15
          1. And no human would ever have their genes edited in natural settings.

            “Natural” is an evolving conglomeration of mutations and epigenetic change.




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    3. I’d really love more discussion on Keto because so many embrace it for its “healthy effects,” but I can’t wrap my head around such high fat consumption. Or is there something about the specifics of Keto that make it safe to consume a higher percentage of daily fat? This article makes clear sense to me – excess fat clogs the arteries. Please give us the pros and cons of a Keto diet and whether or not long term, it can pose harm.




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      1. Yes Lauren! I am eagerly anticipating his upcoming fasting series, where the good doctor will be discussing (amongst other topics) the ketogenic diet. I’ve been hearing much lately about the positive effects of switching to using fats as a mitochondria energy source, instead of glucose (from carbs). Very curious on his research on this, before I decide to dive into the purported benefits of keto.




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        1. Would love to see this – so much conflicting info.

          I also would love to see research on grass fed animal meat compared to what’s sold in the stores – have never seen ANY research on the differences (if any).




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          1. Paul Trudeau: Below is information when people ask about grass fed/organic/etc animal products. In addition to putting the issue into perspective, there is some research included below.
            ——————
            b00mer, a well respected poster on this site, once wrote the following words which helps put the issue into perspective: “……A grass fed cow will consume even more food than a grain fed cow due to the lower caloric density. Their food may not be genetically modified, but they are still part of the food chain, their food still contains environmental pollutants, and they are still concentrating them in their tissues.
            ……How people can think that the nutritional profile of an animal completely changes with its diet is beyond me. If I eat mostly kale, or mostly corn, sure an analysis of my tissues may lead to some detectable differences, but it’s still going to be human flesh. I still produce hormones, I still have dioxin, pcbs, flame retardants in my tissues, I still have saturated fat in my tissues, arachidonic acid, etc.”
            .
            The summary answer is that while these products may be *marginally* healthier, they are not significantly healthier? How do we know that? Because many of the reasons why these products are unhealthy would apply to the product regardless of its source. While an organic or wild or grass fed product may have less say saturated fat, they still have plenty of saturated fat–enough to matter. All of these animal products are still going to have saturated fat, cholesterol, animal protein, TMAO, contaminants, etc. All of these products are going to be lacking in fiber and vital phytonutrients, including precious few anitoxidants. http://nutritionfacts.org/videos/antioxidant-power-of-plant-foods-versus-animal-foods/
            .
            The following NutritionFacts overviews gets you started on this topic and you will see that most if not all of these mechanisms apply to the product regardless of it’s source: http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/meat/ and http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/igf-1/ and http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/endotoxemia/ Here’s a quote from moderator Rami: “Looking at meat and dairy, they still contain trans fats which the recommended daily allowance is at 0 http://nutritionfacts.org/videos/good-great-bad-killer-fats/ Dairy blocks the phytonutrients of plant foods, http://nutritionfacts.org/videos/nutrient-blocking-effects-of-dairy/ Looking at chicken, its fat to protein ratio is abominable http://nutritionfacts.org/videos/does-eating-obesity-cause-obesity/ Fish protein itself shortens lifespan by 6 years by cutting down our telomeres http://nutritionfacts.org/videos/research-into-reversing-aging/ . … What do animal products have in common? They promote cancer due to raised IGF-1 levels, promote heart disease, autoimmune disease, dementia, etc. What can stop the progression and in most cases reverse these diseases? Plants, not meat. It seems clear based on all of the evidence that plant food, all around, is much healthier than meat, organic or not.”
            .
            NutritionFacts does have some videos that directly address your question. For example, here is a video on organic salmon: http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-problem-with-organic-salmon/ Note that while organic was better, it’s still got plenty of contaminants. “The differences were really marginal…” Here is a video showing arsenic in organic chicken: http://nutritionfacts.org/videos/arsenic-in-chicken/
            .
            Looking outside of NutritionFacts for a minute, lets look at “wild” game, something paleo proponents make a big deal of. Participant donmatez once wrote, “Wild game also carry campylobacter, pathogenic E. coli, salmonella, etc. All the data available on pubmed. Example: Assessment of Shiga Toxin-Producing Escherichia coli Isolates from Wildlife Meat as Potential Pathogens for humans http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2765146/ AND Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza Virus among Wild Birds in Mongolia http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3439473/
            .
            For a smidgen of science on the issue of say grass fed beef, check out the following:
            >>> Tom Goff notes that In Uruguay for example where all beef comes from grass fed animals, the more beef eaten, the higher the rates of cancer. http://nutritionfacts.org/2016/09/08/eat-protect-kidney-cancer/#comment-2884319823
            >>> The difference in palmitic acid concentrations between grass fed and grain fed beef is not significant Table (SFA): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2846864/table/T1/
            >>> Healthy Longevity pointed out some information from Plant Postive who noted that the nomadic Sinkiang in northern China who consumed diets rich in organic grass-fed animal foods experienced a 7 fold greater incidence of coronary artery disease than the Chinese living in Zhoushan Archipelago who consumed a diet much richer in plant based foods. These findings resemble even earlier observations from the 1920’s of the nomadic plainsmen in Dzungaria in northwest China and across the border in Kyrgyzstan who consumed enormous amounts of organic grass-fed animal foods and experienced severe vascular disease at young ages. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioadYLEho8M
            >>>Darryl once wrote: “any of the constituents of animal foods of most concern are also present in organic, grass-fed, free-range, lovingly stroked animals too. Organic dairy milk will have high levels of leucine and microRNA-21 (http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1475-2891-12-103.pdf ), for example. Its intrinsic to milk’s biological purpose.
            .
            What it comes down to is that “grass fed”/natural/fresh/organic/wild might be marginally (and I mean marginally) better, but that doesn’t make it healthy! It’s marginally better in the sense that a Snickers candy bar with peanuts is marginally better than a Milky Way candy bar that doesn’t have peanuts. Neither is really healthy for you.




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            1. Thea, I’m am elated that you sent this to me! Thank you so very much! Plenty reading, but that’s okay b/c I’m trying to get at the truth.

              Take care and God bless.




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                1. Greg, thanks for sending, b/c even though these contradictory articles are confusing, I want to hear both sides of the story. Almost makes me want to eat all foods, but just in moderation.

                  Take care.




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                2. I really don’t think that low carbers, MDs or not, can be relied upon to present all the relevant evidence. In the this case though, all she has done is present a chain of speculative and probably specious reasoning attempting to justify meat eating and condemn plant-based diets. People can come up with long plausible justificationds for almost anything. But the $64,000 question is: What does the science show?
                  “”higher intakes of saturated fatty acids (SFA) have also been associated with cognitive impairment. Cross-sectional and longitudinal correlational studies indicate that higher intakes of SFA in young adulthood, mid and later life are associated with worse global cognitive function, impairments in prospective memory, memory speed and flexibility and an increased vulnerability to age related deficits and neurological diseases including dementia and Alzheimer’s disease [34,35,36,37]. ”
                  Saturated fatty acids are the problem with brain health not plant foods. SFA is found in high amounts in meat and other animal foods. Ede’s comments do not address – perhaps deliberately – what the actual evidence shows, perhapsbecause the evidence does not support low carb ideology,




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                  1. TG: I wanted to make you aware of a conversation that took place recently on another page. I probably didn’t do a very good job of responding to “Windy T” and thought you could do better than me. (Or maybe you will think she/he is correct. I’m not trying to dictate your opinion.)

                    In case you are interested, the original post is from a “Cristina”: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/vegan-protein-status/#comment-383155 You can see Windy T and my conversation from there. Just saying. ;-)

                    (I’d suggest to just ignore the back and forth between Windy and Ben… That’s not worth getting in the middle of.)




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                    1. TG: To clarify: The parts of the conversation with Windy T which I think you might be interested in are showing up quite a bit further down from Cristina’s post. My conversation with Windy T continues after the long exchange between Ben and Windy.




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                    2. Thanks Thea. I had a bash at addressing the claims made in his posts although I didn’t have the time to go through all of them.

                      The problem is that all the saturated fat/cholesterol/meat eating alternative health advocates out there present their opinions as facts with total certainty, and come up with all sorts of plausible reasons why they must be right (just ignore the evidence, listen to what I say). Where they address the total science at all, they simply dismiss the evidence they don’t like as “bogus” or the result of some dastardly conspiracy by Big Pharma, Big Agriculture or, even worse, vegans. it is not surprising I suppose that some people fail to do their due diligence fact-checking and actually fall for that stuff. Conspiracy theories have always been attractive.

                      And anybody who disagrees with them, exposes the claims as pseudoscience and troubles to cite the actual evidence, has to be a “paid shill” (thanks for that one, Jerry – I wish I was paid for this!). I am not sure who I am supposed to be a paid shill for but why worry about trivial details like that? I suppose it is as good (bad) a reason for ignoring evidence you don’t like, as any other the self-styled sceptics have come up with..

                      By the way, I am not receiving email alerts about new replies so I am only aware of new posts if I have the time to do a manual check.




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                    3. Thanks for your reply TG!

                      I hope you get this reply. :-) Like you, others have reported problems with not getting forum replies. As you know, that’s just the tip of the iceberg with the forum… I fully understand the frustration.

                      Thanks again for your reply. Have a great day.




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                    4. TG: I just noticed that your reply to Windy T got caught in the Pending folder. I released it. (I had been a little confused when you said you had a bash addressing Windy T. I thought you meant in your head. ;-) Afterwards I saw the pending post. Too funny.)




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                    5. Thea .. Windy T responded to my post so I have done a second response.

                      With luck, this will be the end of it because she wrote that she will be going elsewhere. It becomes a bit tedious trying to spell out just how all of these many weird assertions she has managed to find, are incorrect




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                    6. TG: You have made heroic efforts. If nothing else, I enjoyed reading your posts. I also think anyone else reading that thread will benefit greatly even if Windy T doesn’t get it. Also, I was personally able to copy parts of you answers that I can use it the future. ;-) (With full credit to you of course.)

                      As for it being the end: I wouldn’t count on it. She does not seem capable of letting anyone else get the last word–no matter how indefensible her arguments are. If it were me, I’d just give up at this point. But I can see how hard that is to do. Her posts are so illogical. I think I just saw her latest posts showing that because her cardiologist thinks X it must be a trend and all cardiologists think that. I almost jumped in again with a long list of cardiologists who would take issue… I don’t think it’s worth it any more. Not for me anyway.

                      Thanks again for your efforts. Since we linked to the discussion on this page, others will be seeing the thread. IE: it’s a worth-while effort.




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                    7. Thea .. Just one more thing about this episode: Windy T mentioned the 7th Day Adventist mortality data. I don’t think it’s at all sensible basing an entire dietary philiosophy on the results of an observational study. However, re the relative merits of “vegan”, “pescatarian”, “omnivore” etc diets, if it comes up again, you may find this Belgian study below useful.

                      I didn’t use it in my response because I think we should be arguing for WFPB diets rather than “vegan and vegetarian” diets as such. However, it is very interesting …

                      “The use of indexing systems, estimating the overall diet quality based on different aspects of healthful dietary models (be it the US Dietary Guidelines for Americans or the compliance to the Mediterranean Diet) indicated consistently the vegan diet as the most healthy one”
                      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/




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                    8. Thanks TG! I’m on vacation and only checking my email sporadically. But I will definitely be looking at that study and (trying to) keeping that thought in mind when this issue comes up again. (As we both know, it *will* come up again.) I agree with you about stressing a whole plant food based diet over “vegan”. (Though vegan is sometimes an easier shorthand word I find and use it as a shortcut.) I tried to talk about the difference between vegan and whole plant food based diets with Windy T in my own way, but it didn’t get across.

                      You find the most interesting, on-target studies. I’m excited to look into this one.




                      0
                    9. Thea. You were right, She has come back.

                      Since I am stuck in the house all day today, I have penned another lengthy response but it is apparently “awaiting moderation”




                      0
            2. Thea, one more question, please. What about milk kefir or yogurt – does the fermentation change it enough to be good for the body?

              BTW, I am loving this blog – so much new information!




              1
              1. @Paul Trudeau

                1) I consume raw goat milk and goat milk kefir.

                2) Remember that EVERYONE on the internet cherry picks studies to prove their point.




                1
              2. Paul Trudeau: So happy I could help. As for your question about kefir/yogurt. The fermentation does change the milk to the point that the galactose is gone. The galactose is one of the substances in dairy which is so harmful. So, in that respect, eating the yogurt over other dairy would sound like a good thing. However, that yogurt process only removes one of the harmful substances in dairy. That yogurt is still going to have the problem with all the hormones natural to any breast milk, animal protein (which prompts your body to produce excess growth hormone called IGF-1), saturated fat and cholesterol, contaminants, etc. (If you want to verify these statements, it’s all here on NutritionFacts.) NutritionFacts recommends avoiding all dairy products and that recommendation makes sense to me.

                If you crave yogurt, you might consider trying a soy or almond based yogurt. Or maybe you would enjoy making your own? You can find plenty of recipes for making vegan yogurts.

                Good luck to you on your learning journey. :-)




                3
          1. Lauren, here’s my story (and I’m stickin’ to it. ‘-)

            I first learned about ketone bodies after reading how during fasting, after about 3 days or so the body uses up ones glucose stores and converts to being fueled by fat. The brain, we’ve all heard, is fueled by glucose. However, the brain does very well on fuel created from fats. As a matter of fact, the fat is quickly turned into fuel by the liver whereas glucose has to go through a gut process to create fuel.

            For me personally, I do not subscribe to butter and other such fats. For me, the primary fat in my diet is the medium chain triglycerides, or MCT oils, that I consume. Some others get in but I at least add some MCT oil to my fat free or low fat ice cream or yoghurt to compete with them in my body.

            The warning I hear when I tell a Dr. I’m loosely following a ketogenic diet is that I might die from ketoacidosis. That is, if you are diabetic your body may not produce enough insulin to break down glucose since your body is using fat for fuel. This could lead to over-acidification of the blood and could lead to death. It’s best to go ketogenic in partnership with a doctor.

            If not with your doctor, then with a doctor. And I’m hoping our doctor, Dr Gregor will address that particular item and perhaps even suggest something that will neutralize any such worry for those of us who appear to thrive on ketone body fuel. I’m interested in this as my pH dropped from 7 down to 6 between my previous two blood tests, six months apart. I eat and drink a lot of things that are bitter or sour, and as such are acidic.

            I’ve often wondered if taking baking soda regularly would raise my pH. May try it as it certainly can’t hurt.




            0
            1. Thank you Lonnie. I’ve been toying with whether or not to try this. Personally it’s easy for me to avoid carbs all together but not sure how much fat I need personally to achieve this keto state and whether or not it will make difference in my overall health as so thrive on a plant-based diet mostly.




              1
              1. As a lay person, I think it will take some blood tests to confirm when and how much you are in ketosis. I don’t have a link at hand but do a search for Valter Longo. He has been a proponent of fasting and by reading his research you can get an idea of when ketogenisis takes hold.




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                1. Thank you Lonnie. Lauren O’Connor, MS, RDN, RYT Registered Dietitian / Nutritionist / Yoga Instructor Nutri Savvy Health

                  Like Nutri Savvy Health on Facebook Follow @NutriSavvyGal on TwitterConnect with me: Lauren O’Connor, MS, RD on LinkedIN Subscribe to my blog: http://nutrisavvyhealth.com




                  1
                    1. thank you very much. ;) Lauren O’Connor, MS, RDN, RYT Registered Dietitian / Nutritionist / Yoga Instructor Nutri Savvy Health

                      Like Nutri Savvy Health on Facebook Follow @NutriSavvyGal on TwitterConnect with me: Lauren O’Connor, MS, RD on LinkedIN Subscribe to my blog: http://nutrisavvyhealth.com




                      0
                    2. Thank you very much. :) Lauren O’Connor, MS, RDN, RYT Registered Dietitian / Nutritionist / Yoga Instructor Nutri Savvy Health

                      Like Nutri Savvy Health on Facebook Follow @NutriSavvyGal on TwitterConnect with me: Lauren O’Connor, MS, RD on LinkedIN Subscribe to my blog: http://nutrisavvyhealth.com




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            2. Ohhhh! Just tried the baking soda stirred in water. A few minutes later I belched through my nose… you know, like happened when you were a kid and drank a coke too fast?

              Still, that’s telling me I am getting a reaction with my stomach acid, but I doubt that carries over into the blood.




              1
            3. Lonie, I know that you always like to learn new things, like me :)

              There is a lady who talks about juicing for ketogenic. This is not an endorsement of anything but I am always open to learn new things and I take everything with a grain of salt. For fasting without depriving you of any nutrients, I read that you can drink vegetables juice. Because you are vegan, I think, I don’t want to push for bone broth, but that’s even better.

              https://www.juiceladycherie.com/Juice/juice-therapy-for-cancer/




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              1. Hey Jerry, thanks for the link.

                The first thing I noticed was the reference to Pomegranate juice… and this reminded me that I have some Pomegranate powder that I have been forgetting to add to my cocoa+++++ drink.

                My experience with fasting was to eat nothing for 3 to 4 days, maybe drink a morning cup of tea, but very little to no water.

                I built my will power up to where I could do that after about the third fasting session. I also did very little movement. That is, I would find something on YouTube that would hold my attention (Old WWII footage of battles, aircraft, things like that) and would while away the hours until bed time. And even though Longo has produced (in partnership with his University employer, I think) a prepared meal kit to help one get through the fasting period, initially he seemed to promote toughing it out.

                I believe his thinking was to allow the body to tear itself down, that is, recycle damaged parts and rebuild during refeed. Refeed being more ketogenic since the body had converted to getting energy from fats.

                Maybe it was Placebo thinking but I felt more was accomplished by my doing the Spartan approach. It was hard at first until I came to know that I would hit a wall after about 2 days and once I burst through that wall, I could make it to the end… and yes, at the end I would count the hours. But sometimes when reaching the hour, I would push on another few hours just to show off to myself. And while I adopted a regimen of fasting when others feast, I became so comfortable with the process that I could go to relatives houses during those times and would take my cameras to video the gathering while not sitting down to eat with them. Often I left with a plate of food to eat once my fast was done.

                You may have noticed I am using the past tense a lot. Reason is, I’m thinking that I have to do a constant feed after doing the 7 units of a young person’s plasma treatment. That is, getting young proteins from the plasma to instruct one’s resident stem cells how to repair and protect one’s own organs. I’m thinking I need to provide constantly available nutrition so the repair process is not interrupted. Still don’t know if the young proteins are one and done, or are maintained in the blood stream until they are no longer viable… which in a normal situation of a person they become practically inviable around age 35.

                One more thing about fasting is Longo felt it helped (even when using chemo or radiation, it helped to reduce side effects) to defeat cancer. Reason is, cancer cells live off of glucose. Cut off the glucose and the cancer cells die.




                1
                1. Water is extremely important for a successful fast. It also helps to flush (wash) out any toxic buildup. 3+ liters a day is recommended.

                  Water, deep breathing/oxygenation, and light exercise.




                  2
                  1. Just as an added note:

                    I have done many 3-5 day fasts over the years. I have also experienced a successful 11 day and 14 day water fast.

                    Fasting is ‘the miracle cure’ for me. My latest experiment is now one meal a day (WFPB – dinner), as I spend the mornings and afternoons training, and food in my stomach greatly interferes with my performance and causes discomfort.

                    For what it’s worth.




                    1
                    1. The above comment is in reply to the comment by LG King as shown below.

                      Water is extremely important for a successful fast. It also helps to flush (wash) out any toxic buildup. 3+ liters a day is recommended.

                      Water, deep breathing/oxygenation, and light exercise.




                      0
                2. Lonie, I am a person with a lot of will when it comes to health, I will do anything. If I have to eat dirt, I will :)

                  My reluctance to do fasting has more to do with my concern of depriving my body of nutrients during that time. I understand that you can always eat plenty of nutritious foods after the fasting and the fasting will trigger the body’s immune system as well as repairing DNA damage. So what I do is using several methods to “cheat” and accomplish the same goal by:

                  – Do intermittent fasting during the weekend. Unless I have to go somewhere, I eat dinner early on Friday and Saturday evening and don’t eat again until at least 12 hours later the next day. I read that intermittent fasting will also fool your body into thinking that you fast for several days.

                  – Take mushroom and CoQ10 supplements to repair my DNA.

                  – Eat bone broth every day. Bone broth is rich in amino acids, especially glycine, and glycine has the property to fool your body into thinking that you have fasted. The following article explains better what I am talking about:

                  https://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2017/02/06/glycine-and-mitochondria/

                  “For some of us, methionine restriction holds up the tantalizing prospect of gaining benefits of dietary restriction while allowing us to eat to satiety. But the idea remains untested in humans. Protein deficiency can lead to loss of strength and endurance and the ability to concentrate–even as it increases life expectancy. Depression is another risk. Rats that have tried methionine restriction are not recommending it for humans; in fact, they quickly come to crave methionine; they recognize methionine-deficient foods and shun them.”

                  Now you can do “fake” fasting by eating no solid foods but drink only either bone broth, or vegetables juice. Bone broth because of the glycine as explained above. Vegetables juice because when you don’t eat solid foods but only drink a liquid ,no matter how nutritious it is, you still feel very hungry. So my theory is that your body will be fooled to think that you fast.

                  This is by no mean to encourage anyone to consume bone broth – I am just presenting the facts – but if you are a vegan, you can always drink vegetables juice and skip solid foods to do fake fasting.




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                  1. Jerry, I don’t disagree with anything you said. (I actually have some bones in my freezer that I once bought with the intention of making some bone broth ‘-)

                    What I do see is that we have different goals we hope to achieve with fasting. And your methionine restriction is something that has given me pause as well since it is an essential (not made in the body) amino acid. I’m just thinking it is a matter of striking the right balance.

                    I’ve done the 12 hour fasting for a time but was unable to maintain the practice. You bring up a good point about life getting in the way of continuing a regimen… no matter what it is. In some cases a family or a mate can be helpful. In others, it can be a deterrent.

                    As for goals, I subscribe to the aim of when doing a long fast, allowing the body to eat itself. That is, I want to deprive my body of any nutrient so the body has to recycle old and useless molecules to survive. It just seems that providing any nutrition during that time may somehow defeat that purpose. The method you describe of keeping nutrition available is a useful tactic and will get a benefit, although probably a different outcome than the one I’m looking for.

                    I find it interesting to read of the death of a holocaust survivor dying at a very old age. Of course they underwent forced fasting to an extreme. And there is the case of Audrey Hepburn who went through WWII in Holland or Belgium, not sure in what country, often in a starvation state. She on the other hand died too young, but contrary to some who contribute her early death to starvation during the war, I think it was more to her very public pursuit of helping the deprived. That is, I think she took too much of the burden of the helpless on herself and by caring too much, took too much out of her own life. Just my theory. Anyway, I believe hard times can build up an immunity against life’s struggles that may work in a way that we can mimic by fasting.

                    I agree that protein is very important to provide the amino acids a body must have. And I understand your approach (by eating bone broth for instance) is probably the more natural way of achieving proper levels of the aminoes. My shortcut is to buy them in supplement form… either as individual essentials or by a product such as goat whey protein supplement.

                    In summation, the most important health tool we have is to keep up with what is coming. Don’t wait for your doctor to tell you it is here… they will be the last to know. Just do the research and you will realize that a healthy longevity is fast coming up on us. I alluded to the young Plasma trial I participated in. The research is showing that a protein called TMPT (I think) is believed to be involved in emulating the plasma treatment. If that is the case, what cost me thousands could one day be available for hundreds, or even tens.

                    I’m just sayin’ that no matter your approach… WFPB, Jerry’s modified approach, various others here on NF… don’t make that your settle. Be open to what is coming to take you even further in good health.




                    1
          2. Yes Lauren, I am suspecting that he will be providing a much more balanced approach than some of the Keto proponents, who have tried hard to show science that support their beliefs.




            1
      2. Lauren,

        I think the issues at hand is simple….. higher fat levels do have an impact on endothelial function…. in a negative way.

        Let’s try on this pubmed study this study on those younger folks and kids……who presurmably have the best endothelial function….. But there’s more….. how about we discount the arterial impact and instead focus on the same population …….The Short-Term Effect of Ketogenic Diet on Carotid Intima-Media Thickness and Elastic Properties of the Carotid Artery and the Aorta in Epileptic Children.. The conclusion…..”The body weight, height, body mass index, serum levels of triglyceride, total cholesterol, and low-density lipoprotein increased significantly at month 6…. “. Now they did not find a difference in the aorta or carotid function, HOWEVER what about the smaller vessels ? I’d suspect they would have been affected and I trust we can all agree that this finding will lead to “clogged” arteries ?

        Pros’……. I’ll leave this to someone else..

        Dr. Alan Kadish moderator for Dr. Greger http://www.Centerofhealth.com




        0
        1. Thank you – this is alongside my beliefs. And always great to have studies, research to review. Lauren O’Connor, MS, RDN, RYT Registered Dietitian / Nutritionist / Yoga Instructor Nutri Savvy Health

          Like Nutri Savvy Health on Facebook Follow @NutriSavvyGal on TwitterConnect with me: Lauren O’Connor, MS, RD on LinkedIN Subscribe to my blog: http://nutrisavvyhealth.com




          0
    4. Thomas Hanson,

      Somewhere on Youtube I saw a discussion between Dr Greger and Dr Mercola. It’s out there in cyber-land. You can find it!

      Dr T Colin Campbell’s book, Whole, talks about the myth of such diets, with lots of valid scientific references. Valid, as in not paid for by the meat-egg-dairy industries.

      A few years back I had an aggressive triple negative breast cancer, meaning there was no female hormone involvement. I’ve only known two or three other women with that diagnosis. At least two of the three ate either ketogenic or Paleo and both lived about 18 months past diagnosis. Maybe I’m just lucky, but I have been eating mostly plants since that time (2010), now totally WFPB, and not only am I still alive, I’ve been thriving all that time, down to a BMI of 21, feeling good.




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      1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIUjFXoV3iE
        Natural health expert and Mercola.com founder Dr. Joseph Mercola interviews Dr. Michael Greger MD, a nutrition expert, physician, founder of NutritionFacts.org, and author of an excellent new book, “How Not to Die: Discover the Foods Scientifically Proven to Prevent and Reverse Disease.”

        https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/12/13/how-not-to-die.aspx?x_cid=youtube
        Eat Real Food for Health and Longevity




        1
    5. I too have same question as you Thomes. There are many people out there who do follow Ketogenic Diet, and yet we do not hear that these people are having massive number of heart attacks… Or are they?

      Here is a link where Dr. Eric Berg explains that it is not true that high fat diet will clog our arteries. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmJSw0x3Rl0.

      I wish these, so called, exports would get together and come to an agreement regarding healthy diets. Most of us, if not all, wish to eat and feed our families the healthiest possible diet. Unfortunately, with all these extreme highly recommended approaches (and yes they all have some studies supporting their claims) just makes us confused…

      Sad thing is that these exports do spend great deal of their time and energy in their research in order to support their position, and yes, they somehow come up with totally opposite teachings and “evidence”…




      2
      1. All of the “experts” who support the ketogenic diet make money selling books, supplements, and some are even given money by the dairy industry, egg industry, and the meat industry. So, many of them are highly motivated to support a high fat diet because they are making money by doing so. Dr. Mercola who advocates and advertises the ketogenic diet makes millions of dollars selling his books, supplements, exercise equipment, saunas, and sun tanning equipment. Dr. Greger does not sell supplements.




        6
        1. In all fairness, Dr. Greger also makes money selling his message.

          Part of his income comes from the donations used to support this site. I’m a huge fan of Dr. Greger, but he also has friends linked directly to this site who do in fact sell supplements. The most prominent supplement sellers here are Drs. Fuhrman and Klaper, the latter of whom sells his supplements through True North’s website. Dr. Greger also refers patients directly to Dr. Klaper. Typically the referrer receives a commission when sending a paying patient to another doctor.

          To say Dr. Greger is more correct because he doesn’t profit isn’t true. He’s making money. His salary depends on people clicking on this site. He may receive less money than the keto docs, but he still gets paid for everything he says.

          Again, I’m a fan of Dr. G, but it’s not like he’s giving anything away for free.




          11
          1. Again, I’m a fan of Dr. G, but it’s not like he’s giving anything away for free.

            Not to mention he is a paid speaker with a long list of engagements. And well deserved, if you ask me.




            1
          2. Dr. Greger’s income is mostly donations. Yes, he wrote a book

            and probably makes well deserved money from the sale of his hard

            worked effort of writing this book. His motivation for the book is

            to spread the truth about nutrition. He is not taking in millions of

            dollars from the meat industry, the egg industry and the dairy industry

            like the purveyors of the high fat diet are. Everyone knows that

            Dr. Greger’s work is not biased by the greed of money. But, many of

            us suspect that the purveyors of a high fat diet are biased by the

            monetary gains that they et from the meat, egg, and dairy industry.




            2
          3. Reggie – last I checked everyone has bills to pay – rent or mortgage, food, car, insurance, etc.
            EVEN YOU!!! Omgosh!!!

            Dr. Gregers fees and profits go into the non-profit organization which he runs and from which he takes a salary. And which he also pays his staff.

            He doesn’t sell supplements, bidets, water systems, etc like another well known internet salesmen we all know about.




            3
            1. I don’t think that’s the point Regie was making. People act like plant-based docs do this out of the goodness of their heart and work for free. But they’re selling something to us the same way Mercola or Weil or Hyman does.

              John made it sound like you can’t trust keto docs because they profit off their message. Plant docs profit off their message too.

              I happen to think the plant docs are right but I also think the money involved makes it tough to trust them.




              5
          4. https://paddockpost.com/2016/09/18/where-does-1-to-nutritionfacts-org-go/
            Where does $1 to NutritionFacts.org go?

            By charity dollar standards, Nutrition Facts is small although they have a big message: pursue a healthy diet. They raised just over a half million dollars ($571 thousand) in 2014, according to their IRS Form 990, most of which came from two sources: contributions ($424 thousand) and a book advance ($102 thousand). They spent nearly a half million dollars ($452 thousand) on expenses (primarily staff, advertising, electronic mailings, office expenses, and recruiting). The organization’s balance sheet indicates total assets of $556 thousand and no liabilities.

            So, how is a $1 donation to Nutrition Facts spent? The short answer: primarily on office, staff, and advertising to support their website and get this vital information to the public:

            $1.00: Donation

            -$0.36: Office Expenses (supplies, telephone, printing, postage, mailings, etc)

            -$0.23: Salaries and Wages (4 employees)

            -$0.08: Advertising and Promotion

            -$0.05: IT

            -$0.03: Accounting, Legal, and Other

            -$0.02: Conferences and Meetings

            -$0.02: Grants

            -$0.79: Total Expenses

            $0.21: Added to the Fund Balance

            It is important to point out that Dr. Greger does not receive a salary and that the compensation expenses of the organization ($131 thousand) are for four staff in 2014. All proceeds from his books, DVD’s, and speaking engagements go to charity.




            0
            1. It is important to point out that Dr. Greger does not receive a salary and that the compensation expenses of the organization ($131 thousand) are for four staff in 2014.

              That was true in 2014, but he does in fact now draw a salary from donations.

              He quit his post at the Humane Society last year and specifically ran a fund raiser telling people he would run Nutrition Facts full time if he could raise enough financial support. I remember because I donated then and continue to do so monthly.

              However, I do agree though with a few people above that the money involved complicates his message now.




              6
      2. Mary, perhaps part of the problem is that we are not all the same genetically? Years ago I realized that when I eat lots of carrots my skin turned orange. People would comment on it. Doing research, I found some genetic groups, Irish, Scandinavians, Inuits, for example, lost any ability to convert beta-carotene to Vitamin A. Also, one of my sons threw up constantly as a young child till an old Swedish women told me to give him cod liver oil.
        I think we have only begun to figure all this stuff out. And people groups used in studies may make a great difference.
        For myself, I love animals, so I am vegetarian. But I do take fish oil because I need it.




        1
          1. Anna, I said I was a vegetarian, Not a vegan. The fish oil I take comes from sardines. I have to get real vitamin A somewhere in my diet. Retinols, the kind in most multi-vitamins, are synthetics, and harmful in my opinion.
            Also, my point was that we are all genetically different. So, another factor is that the Omega 3’s in plants, are not the same as those in fish. Those in plants have to be converted to EPA, and then to DHA. In fact, most people do not make this conversion very efficiently, some not at all.
            If a totally vegan diet is for you, that’s great. Again, my point was that we are all different.




            1
      3. i doubt if Eric Berg qualifies as an “expert”. He is a chiropractor for one thing and is not a noted reseracher or scientist. He has also had his approval to practice questioned because of his use of pseudoscientiofoc methods
        https://www.casewatch.org/board/chiro/berg.shtml

        If you want expert advice on fat rely on the World Health Organization, the expert scientific advisory committe for the US dietary guidelines, the American Heart Association or Harvard instead of alternative health practitioners or dubious YouTube videos and sensational books eg
        http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/early/2017/06/15/CIR.0000000000000510
        https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-about-fats-bad-and-good

        Personally, i don’t necessarily agree with Harvard’s view of good fats since I see no need for oils in the diet. Olives, nuts and other whole plant foods provide plenty of fatsHowever, Harvard summarises the mainstream view well. And for people eating an exclusively plant diet, Dr Greger suggests DHA/EPA omega 3 oil supplements may be helpful.
        https://nutritionfacts.org/2011/09/12/dr-gregers-2011-optimum-nutrition-recommendations/




        0
        1. “If you want expert advice on fat rely on the World Health Organization”

          Bwahahahahahaha are you friggin kidding me….back in the days of Hitler I can just see you goosestepping to the nazi regime…..




          0
      4. You only “hear” what the media wants you to hear or what you want to hear. The only time these things can be determined is when peer-reviewed published studies are performed. Guess, what? Its been done. Animal based keto diets increase death rates. Plant based keto diets: not so much. Its’ been covered by Dr. G in these vids:

        https://nutritionfacts.org/video/atkins-diet-trouble-keeping-it-up/
        https://nutritionfacts.org/video/low-carb-diets-and-coronary-blood-flow/
        https://nutritionfacts.org/video/plant-based-atkins-diet/




        0
    6. Ketogenic diet is a complex diet and you have to do it right. If you study Dr Mercola writing on ketogenic diet, it’s composed of cycling with eating carb some days and eating keto diet on some days. In general, ketogenic diet is not healthy in the long term but for short term to take care of certain diseases such as cancer, Alzheimer’s, epilepsy, etc. then researches said that it works.

      I generally follow the ketogenic diet philosophy by eating more fats and reducing my carb although I still eat plenty of beneficial carb to be considered to be in ketome.




      2
    1. Do you eat much fruit, fresh fruit? Wonder if too much fruit sugar in the blood,
      and eating even healthy fats on same day, could create this issue. And vice versa.




      2
    2. Greg – Would you please clarify what you mean by “carbs” that you say you’ve cut? Do you mean bread, tortillas, croissants? or do you mean corn, rice and beans? Do you mean refined processed carbs like bread? or do you mean whole carbs like squash? The term “cutting carbs” means one thing to one person and a different thing to another. I’d like to understand more clearly what carbs exactly you cut.
      Thanks!




      2
      1. I mean most carbs including corn & rice. I eat a lot of non starchy veggies & I do consume about a half cup-1 cup of berries each day. My total carb count is no more than 50 grams per day.




        0
    3. Greg – your post is an excellent example of why it is important to tease out the details and see clearly what’s what when sharing information via a link. You linked to an article – not research – interpreted by Medical News Today. I follow that site as well for research information. However, they send interpretations of research written by someone else. I looked at the article you linked to and it discusses “high sugar diets vs low sugar diets”. Not high whole carbohydrate diets vs low whole carbohydrate diets. In this article – which does not tell us how the sugar was consumed (although it looks like it was given via sugar water if one reads between the lines and makes an assumption) – gives us perilously little clear information about how the research was conducted. I looked for a link to the actual research and could not find one.
      This is a very vague and unclearly written article that does not allow one to tease into the research itself. Very misleading and one should not use a poorly written article to use as fact evidence – especially on a site that makes concerted attempts to tease fact from fiction which is what we try to do here.




      6
    4. All available evidence demonstrates that the source of the sugar is critical. Processed carbs like table sugar and candy increase death and disease while unprocessed sugar like fruit does the opposite. Don’t forget that calorie density is critical; bread has 80 calories/ounce of pure sugar (starch that is transformed into sugar since you can’t absorb starch) while watermelon, that may taste like pure sugar, only has 9 calories per ounce. Yes, you read that correctly. This makes for a very small glycemic-load which is critical in determining the impact of the carbs. As Dr. Lustig says : sugar wrapped in fiber is healthy.

      Dr. Ben




      0
  4. As a young registered nurse working in an ER in the 80s, I had quite a shock when I was taking a blood sample from a patient- the blood was pink and strawberry milkshake-like in the test tube when agitated and then settled out to a light cream/pink color with serum on the top when left alone. I daresay that poor person may not have had a long life. Interestingly, if I recall accurately, he was not in ER for a cardiac issue, but blood like that more than likely affected other organs.

    As I was completely floored with confusion, I went to show it to the doctor on duty. He confirmed that it was lipids. I have never seen that again in my career but it was unforgettable.

    So I am eating my steel cut oats with blackberries and smiling with relief. ;)

    A proud monthly supporter of Nutritionfacts.org




    15
    1. Oats contain gluten (unlike rice, wheat buck ,maize).Daily consumption of oats can bring in some detrimental health effects – I have read about that on the Internet. But eating oats twice a week is okey. And of course, blackberries are superfoods!




      0
      1. Gluten is bad for a very few people, but most people can eat foods with gluten in them without any issue. I eat oatmeal every day. It’s my prefered breakfast (with sliced bananas, flaxseed, a little chia, and lots of dark berries.




        11
      2. Elena – this is a science, research, and fact-based site. The WHOLE POINT here is to separate fact from urban myth and fiction. So if you are going to make a statement about what is safe and not safe because of x, y, or z, then please provide research – not links to internet trash-talk – to allow the science-minded folks on this site to look at it. Repeating myth and unsubstantiated facts is not what this site is about.




        5
          1. @Greg

            From the study

            “Exclusion criteria included plasma triglycerides (TG) > 500 mg/dL, total cholesterol (TC) > 240 mg/dL or glucose (GLU) > 126 mg/dL. Current or previous history of liver disease, renal disease, diabetes, cancer, endocrine disorders, metabolic disorders, stroke or heart disease, taking glucose lowering drugs or supplements, current pregnancy or lactation, BMI ≥ 30 kg/m2, blood pressure > 140/90, egg or gluten allergy/sensitivity or celiac disease.”

            “Dietary Intervention
            Enrolled participants were randomly allocated to consume either two eggs per day (EGGS) or one packet of oatmeal per day (OATS) for four weeks (Big Y Foods, Inc., Springfield, MA, USA). Following a three-week washout, participants crossed over to the alternate intervention food for four weeks. Each daily serving of two eggs contained 370 mg cholesterol, 0 g carbohydrate, 12 g protein, 10 g fat, 0 g fiber and 140 calories. Each daily serving of one packet of oatmeal had 0 mg cholesterol, 0–14 g carbohydrate, 3–4 g protein, 1.5–2 g fat, 3 g fiber and 100–160 calories depending on the flavor choice, of which there were five. Participants were instructed to consume the intervention foods as the first meal of the day, and were allowed to add vegetables, meat, cheese, syrup, yogurt, etc. to their breakfast intervention food, if desired. Participant compliance was monitored daily by self-report and bi-weekly visits to our laboratory for product pickup. During the intervention and washout periods, participants were asked to avoid consuming whole eggs or foods containing predominately eggs or oats. Aside from treatment, habitual dietary intake, exercise, medication usage, and supplement intake was maintained throughout the study.”

            Not a very good study – IMHO.




            1
    1. Eric,

      The short answer … no… there is a distinct difference in the composition of those foods vs refined and saturated oils and the endothelium.

      This was part of a questions posed at the NW Health and Nutrition Conference, just yesterday and some documentation showing the endothelial difference between these issues was presented.

      Dr. Alan Kadish moderator for Dr. Greger http://www.Centerofhealth.com




      0
  5. And yet the high fat “facts” continue to be shared as confidently as these… Dr Hyman, etc, feel that it’s indisputable that sugar/grains are the clear dietary losers, and that fat is a heart hero. I’m on your side, Dr. G, as a earnest personal follower, but oh boy is it in doubt out there! I’d love to hear a conversation head to head with you and one of the top high fat proponents out there right now. Like Neil Degrasse Tyson says, everything aside from science is merely your opinion. So how are we still debating the science in such opposing directions??? Can’t we settle this? Thank you for your work.




    12
        1. WFPB Nancy,
          Why would such an illustrious place like the Cleveland Clinic hire Dr. Hyman? Just wondering.
          Isn’t it a tacit approval of his ideas for them to do so?




          1
          1. High profile celebrity doctors with best sellers bring in the patients – and the grants from third parties.

            I doubt whether clinics, hospitals or universities are more concerned with the science than they are with the ability to boost cash flow.




            2
    1. Dr Hyman did a good service to humanity by debunking the notion of eating fat will get you fat or causing any disease. Of course he never said to eat huge amount of fat, but in sufficient quantity to maintain your metabolism. And you need to eat healthy fat and vegetable oil and transfat are not healthy fats or large amount of nut/seed fat. He also said to eat plenty of whole plant foods. He is against milk and advice to eat meat moderately. If you don’t follow his advises and you become unhealthy then you are to be blamed for.




      1
      1. can hear his message leaning… now he’s hedging on dairy too – and all the high protein people selling bars and freaking out about a bit of a strawberry… It’s just awful, but they sound 100% clear that the science supports this.




        0
      2. http://www.businessinsider.com/what-mark-hyman-author-of-eat-fat-get-thin-eats-every-day-2016-3
        What the author of ‘Eat Fat, Get Thin’ eats — and avoids — every day

        “Hyman describes his current diet as “a cross between paleo and vegan diets.” He doesn’t eat much — if any — meat or dairy, and he avoids foods that are high in sugar or refined carbs. Or, in the words of famous journalist and food writer Michael Pollan, “Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.”

        Indeed, Hyman says, “About 70 to 80% of your diet should be plant foods,” like vegetables, whole grains, beans, and fruits.

        “It should basically include whole, fresh food that’s unprocessed and high in fiber and phytonutrients,” says Hyman, the latter of which are plant-derived compounds associated with positive health effects.”

        “Add to your bag: Nuts and seeds
        Hyman says he carries packets of almond and cashew butter and nut bars like Kind when he travels to help him avoid making “bad choices” that can result from last-minute cravings.

        “I basically have fat and protein as my snacks, and I have enough food in my bag to last an entire day,” he said.

        Since they’re high in protein, nuts can help stabilize blood-sugar levels — which, if they plummet, can make healthy people feel hangry and is especially dangerous for people with diabetes. Nuts are also a good source of fiber, a key nutrient that helps aid digestion and keeps us feeling full.”

        “Swap for butter and margarine: Olive oil
        Most of the fat in olive oil comes from a special type of “healthy” or monounsaturated fat. Along with another form of unsaturated fat, polyunsaturated, this type of fat has been linked with several health benefits, from helping to reduce the risk of heart disease to keeping blood-sugar levels steady. Several studies have also found that fats like the type found in olive oil may actually help lower total cholesterol levels.

        Still, like any oil, olive oil is rich in calories, so researchers suggest using it in place of other fats, like butter and margarine, rather than simply adding it to your daily diet.”

        “Instead of steak or ribs: Fatty fish
        Oily fish like salmon, mackerel, and trout is rich in another group of fats called omega-3 fatty acids. Unlike most fats, which, for the most part, the human body has no trouble making on its own, omega-3 fats are “essential” fats because the body can’t make them without a little help from our diet.

        Part of the reason omega-3 fats got that label is because of the critical role they play in keeping our cells running smoothly. They’re a key part of our cell membranes — the structure protecting the inner components from their outside environment — and they’re also necessary building blocks of the hormones that regulate blood clotting and inflammation. Studies suggest that omega-3s may even help prevent heart disease and stroke.”

        “Add to your diet: Avocados
        Besides being delicious in guacamole and sushi, creamy avocados are rich in many key nutrients, from potassium (a mineral that helps circulate nutrients and waste in and out of cells) and folate (a key nutrient especially important to women who are or are hoping to get pregnant) to vitamins B, C, and E.

        Like many of the other foods Hyman recommends, avocados are high in fat and calories — just half of one packs roughly 120 calories, about the equivalent of a slice of bread or a container of yogurt.

        But the bright-green fruit is also low in sugar and rich in fiber, two key components of any food that’s going to keep you feeling full without causing blood-sugar levels to spike.”

        “Cut back on: Refined carbs, like white bread or white rice
        When it’s used to refer to foods like rice, pasta, and bread, the word “refined” isn’t typically a good thing.

        Essentially, it means processors remove the whole-grain portion of the food, which cuts out the major source of its fiber and B vitamins and allows it to be digested faster and more easily. Diets that are high in refined carbs and low in whole grains have been linked with health problems, while diets that are high in whole grains and low in refined carbs tend to be linked with more positive outcomes.”

        “Avoid or skip: Sweet fats, like full-fat fruit-flavored yogurt
        “The real danger is sweet fat,” says Hyman. “If you eat fat with sweets — so sugar and fat, or refined carbohydrates and fat — then insulin will rise and it’ll make you fat.”

        This isn’t always true — an occasional rise in blood-sugar levels doesn’t mean you’ll suddenly gain 10 or 20 pounds.

        Still, Hyman highlights a point that’s been echoed by several nutritionists and public-health experts: Sugar, when combined with fat or carbohydrates and eaten consistently in high amounts, has been linked with weight gain. Several studies of low-fat diets that are still high in carbs and sugar have also shown that they are no better than high-fat diets for weight loss.”




        2
      3. Re Hyman, all I know is what I have seen him claim on a YouTube video
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIOnLeriabA

        He makes a lot of false claims there and cites no evidence. For example he claims or at least implies that the evidence that (saturated) fat promotes heart disease is solely epidemiological/observational. Just associations, as he puts it, and it is all down to Ancel Keys’ 7 Countries Study. It isn’t. That is a blatantly indeed ludicrously false claim.
        http://www.nel.gov/evidence.cfm?evidence_summary_id=250189

        He also claims that the warnings against added sugar in the latest US dietary guidelines are a big “turn-around” from all previous guidelines since they first began in 1980. They aren’t. Guideline 5 in 1980 was “Avoid Too Much Sugar”. Ditto 1985. In 1990, they said “Use Sugars Only in Moderation”, in 1995 “Choose a Diet Moderate in Sugars”, in 2000 “Choose beverages and foods to moderate your intake of sugars.”, in 2005 “Less refined grains, total fats (especially cholesterol, and saturated and trans fats), added sugars, and calories.” and in 2010 “Reduce the intake of calories from solid fats and added sugars”
        http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/history.htm#5
        http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/dga2010/dietaryguidelines2010.pdf

        And he is still claiming that that small dense cholesterol particles are dangerous but large fluffy cholesterol particles are protective. This is false and has been known to be false for years………….
        “Previous studies showing that smaller low-density lipoprotein (LDL) size is associated with greater atherosclerotic risk did not adequately control for small and large LDL particle correlation. …….. Both LDL subclasses were significantly associated with subclinical atherosclerosis, with small LDL confounding the association of large LDL with atherosclerosis.”
        http://www.atherosclerosis-journal.com/article/S0021-9150(06)00259-0/fulltext

        This subject has been extensively studied over the years. A major review in 2008 found “In summary, only LDL particle concentration, as measured by NMR, was consistently found to be associated with incident CVD after adjustment for lipids (and other risk factors). Other specific measures have been found to be associated with incidence or progression of CVD by only a minority of studies.”
        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK254170/

        and “Limited evidence suggested that LDL subfraction analysis is not a consistently strong predictor of CVD compared to other known risk factors”
        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu

        More recently, Dr Greger has produced a good video on the topic also which refers to relevant research since 2008:
        http://nutritionfacts.org/video/does-cholesterol-size-matter/

        This video is also worth watching:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wmidN8rYkU

        The best one can say about Hyman is that he tells a lot of half truths as well as simply making false claims. In short, don’t believe guys on YouTube videos selling fad diet books. It’s far better to look at reports on nutrition and health from genuine world class experts who have looked at all the evidence and aren’t just trying to sell some sensational diet book claiming to unveil stunning revelations about what to eat eg
        http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/nutrient/en/
        http://www.dietandcancerreport.org/expert_report/index.php
        http://www.health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015-scientific-report/
        http://www.nel.gov/evidence.cfm?evidence_summary_id=250189
        http://foris.fao.org/preview/25553-0ece4cb94ac52f9a25af77ca5cfba7a8c.pdf




        1
  6. I love Dr. Greger’s work and I have learned so much from it. I must say, however, that I don’t agree with everything he says. One major issue I have with what he says is that he tends to group fats together. In the chapter in his book on cholesterol and heart disease, he says “fat” is bad for cardiovascular functioning, but then a few pages later, he says that vegetable fats such as avocado have the opposite effect. He also groups saturated animal fats with saturated vegetable fats, whereas he would never group animal protein with plant protein.

    I had a blood test done a few weeks ago one hour after a meal at which I had eaten two whole cucumbers, a full bottle of unflavored kombucha tea, a whole avocado, some fresh ginger, and a spoonful of virgin coconut oil. My triglycerides came in at 40, even lower than my previous low of 56. My blood glucose was 73. HDL was 118. No cardiologist would worry about my blood results. I also noticed that my tubes of blood are nice and dark. If you can see fat floating around in somebody’s blood, the blood should be pink-like in color, as the nurse above has noted.

    I am really hoping that Dr. Greger’s wonderful work can be enhanced with more careful research on specific fats vs. others. The problem is that the medical profession doesn’t do that kind of research. It’s the researchers who lump all these facts together. This study, cited above, used a milkshake to get its results! You can’t equal influence heavy cream with sunflower oil with coconut oil with avocado. They are entirely different foods.




    3
    1. Dr. G just needs to be more precise in what he is talking about. What he means and how he says it can be very confusing. This has been mentioned before but the situation has not changed unfortunately.




      2
    2. Diana, Dr. G makes distinctions between animal fats, processed plant-based fats (extracted oils), & whole food fats (avocados & other fruits & veggies, nuts & seeds). The only ones he recommends are fats from whole, plant foods. As long as you stick to the ‘whole foods’ concept, there’s no confusion.




      5
      1. Yes, thanks for the clarification, Nancy! A shame that so many others are rising with animal fats as healthy and fruit as an evil sugar…




        4
    3. HDL was 118. No cardiologist would worry about my blood results.

      A good cardiologist would be very worried about your numbers. An HDL of 118 is very high. The myth that HDL is good for you is just that: a myth. Coconut oil is a potent toxin and probably explains your high levels.

      Harvard – ‘High HDL may not protect the heart’:
      Harvard Health

      HDL can oxidize:
      Journal of Biological Chemistry

      Oxidized HDL can accelerate atherosclerosis:
      PubMed

      When HDL doesn’t protect against heart disease:
      NIH

      High HDL Genes don’t lower heart attack risk: Lancet

      High HDL medication increased heart attacks and death:
      New England Journal of Medicine

      Dr. Greger also did a video on the HDL myth:
      Coconut Oil & the Boost in HDL “Good” Cholesterol




      6
      1. Marty, thank you for sending these links, they have been very helpful. My takeaway as I read them is that a high HDL probably does not have a causative effect on improving the cardiovascular risk, but it is a biomarker for it. Thousands of studies have confirmed HDL as a biomarker and predictor of heart health. So many, in fact, that most doctors focus more on cholesterol ratios (with HDL in the denominator) than on total cholesterol. Ratios they look at closely: TotalChol/HDL, LDL/HDL, and more recently, triglycerides/HDL, which has been found to be one of the strongest predictors of heart disease. The higher the value, the higher the risk. My ratios are tiny compared to the norms and the risky ones, FWIW.

        One of the links you have sent here said that certain types of HDL can oxidize, and there was a lot of focus on hereditary HDL and medication attempts to raise HDL. Regarding the medications, for the most part, they have been unable to find medications that work to raise HDL, but when they have, it has not improved cardiovascular risk. That’s important, and it probably does indicate that HDL is a biomarker rather than a causative agent. Regarding hereditary HDL, that probably does nothing for people who are eating junk all day.

        The most important caveat for these links you have sent, for me, is that there are different types of HDL. I’d like to look into that more. But I did get my particles analyzed, and my results were very positive for the LDL – below the range for VLDL, and above range for the larger particles. What I have read is that the VLDL is the main source for oxidative LDL, and it is the one that is primarily responsible for transporting triglycerides.

        I know Dr. Greger doesn’t agree with a lot of this, and that’s fine. But I have read it so often, and with all due respect to his wonderful work, he does tend to cherry pick his evidence sometimes.




        1
        1. Marty, this may help:

          http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1050173801000950

          The authors explain that HDL does not oxidize under normal circumstances, but where there is a high level of inflammation in the body, it can. HDL may exercise its protective effect by being an anti-inflammatory and destroying oxidized lipids, which are normally LDL and triglycerides. Then, under conditions of acute inflammation, it can flip around and go the other way. They say: “This “chameleon-like” nature of HDL is considered to be due to the complex composition of HDL.”




          1
          1. Here’s another follow-up to my previous post. By coincidence, I talked to a researcher this morning who described a very similar phenomenon – an antioxidant flipping around and becoming a pro-oxidant under conditions of acute inflammation. She was discussing the Finland study you may have heard of – they looked at people who smoked and drank heavily, and gave them beta carotene supplements. The people got worse. The researchers were ready to throw beta-carotene under the bus, but when they kept on looking at it, they found two factors: (a) people were taking supplements, not whole foods, so a lot of factors in the remedy were missing (no kidding!), and (b) the doses in the pills were way too high. Beyond that, though, they found that antioxidants flipped into pro-oxidants in people who were in really bad shape, smoking, drinking, and so forth.

            This is the same phenomenon that may be operating with HDL. HDL may function as an antioxidant to protect from oxidizing LDL, which is why the LDL/HDL ratio is so important. But under conditions of extreme stress, HDL may make things worse. Extreme stress, as in the Finland study, will probably mean your average overweight American junk food eater, maybe with a little smoking and drinking thrown in. Those are the people to whom they give HDL medication. And guess what, it doesn’t work.

            So, being a researcher myself, I looked up the phenomenon on the Internet. I found that they have discovered the same mechanism with vitamin C. Under certain circumstances, vitamin C can change from an antioxidant to a pro-oxidant. Again, they concluded that the “natural food matrices” were missing in pills and the doses were too high. This is from the article:

            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2952083/

            “…Considering epidemiological studies and trials on humans taking antioxidant compounds, it is evident that the health benefits of phytochemicals and nutrients were observed predominantly when being consumed within their natural food matrices (fruits, vegetables, grain, etc.). Compounds within plant foods may therefore be considered as being more safe and healthy compared to isolated, high doses, such as present in supplements. Two main factors seem to be predisposing for the beneficial activities of plant foods: (1) the general low concentration of nutrients and non-nutrients in these natural food matrices and (2) the additive or synergistic actions of complex mixture profiles of phytochemicals and nutrients. Supplementation approaches do generally not take into account both aspects, which could explain the controversial results observed in supplementation studies.”




            0
  7. p.s. Dr. Greger also says that we cannot absorb a lot of the nutrients from vegetables, including cruciferous vegetables, except when fat is in the stomach at the same time. So I think it is not helpful to keep on discouraging people from eating fat.




    5
    1. Absolutely true. To throw all fat under the bus is so harmful to people.

      Fat is needed not only for nutrient absorption but also for your brain health as well as your metabolism. Without good metabolism, you have no energy and you will gain weight, a non intuitive concept to a lot of people.

      I just saw on TV some advertisement for diet. All weight loss diet that concentrates on not eating and calorie counting, will fail. Not only people will gain weight despite starving but they will be sick -because of non absorption of nutrients plus not eating enough nutrients, will cause a double whammy.




      4
      1. If one eats a WFPB diet, one reputedly gets all the fat one needs without adding any ADDITIONAL fat. Even lettuce has fat in it. I lost 30 lbs by going on a WFPB diet and then 5 more on a WFPBNO diet.




        5
          1. It means ‘Whole Food Plant-Based” diet. Whole food as in as close to the original state as possible (not necessarily raw, although sometimes that is better) No added fats, (such as oil pressed out of the olives) no animal protein or dairy. Minimal refined sugars




            6
            1. Sorry, but just one more question. I’ve started air frying potatoes (Irish and yams) with a teaspoon of oil. Is that still too much oil?

              Thanks.




              1
              1. Paul, some of the harm in oils are the carcinogenic compounds they form when heated. The more unsaturated the oil, the faster it becomes toxic. Most are already bad for you when you open the bottle because they have been processed.




                1
                1. Marilyn Kay – Fat is not a whole food. It is a refined food. The overall message in this site is to eat a Whole Food Plant Based Diet.
                  Whole Food, as it is grown in the earth.




                  5
                  1. Rudy, yes, I do understand what Whole Food is, Lol!
                    But as a biochemist who managed a lab testing fats and oils, I don’t think many people understand that not all oils are equally bad. And some of us in the real world have to eat in restaurants from time to time.
                    Also, many vegans eat a lot of salads and use store dressings. Not everyone reading on this site is a purist and I care about those people too.




                    0
              2. Depends on the kind of oil. Just today I had for lunch an onion sauteed in peanut oil, with a can of beans added in. Some herbs mixed in… very good.




                0
              3. Paul Trudeau:

                If you stop eating oil, it will stop tasting good to you. I accidentally had a spoonful of tabouleh made with olive oil a few years ago and thought I was going to throw up.

                Once you quit eating oil, you’ll notice it leaves this disgusting film in your mouth that won’t go away. It also tastes rancid.




                5
          1. Of course, you do. An avocado is very fatty if you need fat. And coconuts are fatty. And olives are fatty. Where’s the problem?!? The difference is that these are whole foods, which is what everyone’s point is who follow this site.




            3
        1. @WFPB- Liisa

          If you call this fat – You’ll get between 0.12 and 0.26 gram of fat from your 3-ounce serving of lettuce. Because fat has 9 calories per gram, this amounts to a mere 1 to 2.3 calories from fat.




          1
          1. LG King, I read “The China Study” by Campbell, which was the beginning of my journey years ago. After that, I studied what Joel Fuhrman wrote in a little book called “Nutritarian Handbook” which is still my “go to” book as a guideline for eating right. In particular, it pointed out to me how very important green consumption is. Specifically, Fuhrman recommends between 1 and 3 servings of cooked greens per day, and a serving is 1-1/2 cups! Raw greens are also recommended. If you are interested in the relative proportions of foods to aim for, I really recommend this little book. I don’t follow this book to the letter, but it is my goal. I have a CSA which helps ensure a variety of vegetables. : )




            0
    2. Nina Moliver – Fat is in cruciferous vegetables all by itself. No need to add any. Broccoli is 10% fat as are most other vegetables.
      Look it up here and you can also look up all sort of other vegetables:
      http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2816/2

      You’ll also see that broccoli is 26% complete protein. One needs approximately 8-10% protein in their diet. Vegetables yield plenty of protein. And fat.
      Human beings are the only animal I can see that obsessively worries about consuming added fats, getting enough protein, carbs, . . .worry, worry, worry. Some of the largest animals on this earth graze on vegetables and don’t worry about adding olive oil or coconut oil to their food – they just eat the plants around them. Elephants, giraffes, elk and deer, antelope, rhinoceros, rabbits, water buffalo, American buffalo. Mother Nature has given us the nutrition we need in plants – Whole Plants. Eat them whole, as is, and stop this silly worrying.




      9
      1. @Nina Moliver – This is a really invalid statement “Some of the largest animals on this earth graze on vegetables and don’t worry about adding olive oil or coconut oil to their food – they just eat the plants around them. Elephants, giraffes, elk and deer, antelope, rhinoceros, rabbits, water buffalo, American buffalo. ”

        Humans are NOT animals – we are omnivores – deal with it.




        2
          1. TG- but isn’t it true that different species have different nutrient requirements? So the point of diet research is to show what is the healthiest diet for our species. And, perhaps that will even vary from one person to another because of genetic type.




            1
    3. Marilyn Kay – Fat is not a whole food. It is a refined food. The overall message in this site is to eat a Whole Food Plant Based Diet.
      Whole Food, as it is grown in the earth.

      How on earth do you think all plant-eating animals on earth get their nutrition without pouring olive oil all over their food? Added fat just isn’t necessary – IT IS IN THE FOOD ALREADY. Mother Nature put it there!
      Broccoli – 9% fat Check it out here and check out all vegg and plants to eat:
      http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2356/2
      Educate yourself.




      5
      1. Actually Rudy, I am quite educated. Learning more is why I am here. But given my profession, I thought it might be helpful to bring up carcinogens.To help people see that there may be even more reasons to avoid vegetable oils.




        2
    4. Nina, cruciferous vegetables have enough oil in them to be absorbed into the body. No need to add extra oil. Oil is not a whole food.




      2
    1. Why on earth do you believe this tripe Jerry?

      There is lots of scientific information on fats. Why do you ignore that and instead believe cultists and people associated with the Atkins Diet empire or the meat and dairy industries? Or journalists selling sensational books that misrepresent the facts for that matter?




      4
    1. Any nut fat is good except peanut which is not a nut to begin with. Peanut is a good food but unfortunately it is heavily sprayed with pesticides and insecticides.




      3
      1. Wrong. Several studies have been performed on reduction of morbidity and mortality eating nuts including peanuts. Peanuts have shown the same reductions as tree nuts. Peanuts are considered “ground nuts”.

        Dr. Ben




        0
      1. I love this place… because in answering someone else’s query my thought process is triggered and I learn something from myself.

        For instance, the above link. And as I went to the little magnetic cooking plate where my leftover beans from lunch was sitting, it occurred to me to add some peanut powder to my beans instead of eating from my peanut butter jar. The beans have finally cooled from the re-heat and I just took a bite. Tastes great!

        I’ve just discovered an easier way to be healthy and diminish any adverse reaction in my arteries that might arise from eating the fats I need for ketogenesis.




        0
    2. Peer-reviewed published studies have not shown the same reductions in death and disease with peanut butter as compared to peanuts. There was only one study that showed some benefit that I’m aware of. Your best choice is to eat peanuts, not peanut butter.

      Dr. Ben




      0
  8. Isn’t the case that it is not the fat you eat… but the fat you absorb?

    This might help explain why eating refined walnut oil is not so good but eating a whole walnut is not that bad…

    My presumption is that refined oils and animal fats are much more easily absorbed than the fat in whole plants (makes sense to me when thinking of the effort it takes to extract oil from a seed of but in there fat place….)




    3
    1. This might help explain why eating refined walnut oil is not so good but eating a whole walnut is not that bad…

      I take issue with the above statement. I don’t have the link at hand, but after reading that Walnut oil helps suppress IGF-1, I have been taking that in a 2:1 ratio of MCT oil/Walnut oil since I first learned about and began fasting.

      The fasting halts the IGF-1 production and the Walnut oil continues to suppress.




      1
  9. I’m new to this, but if this is accurate, how can the ketogenic diet be so good for humans? Or at least, that’s what I keep hearing.




    2
    1. Paul, it’s not good for humans. The ketogenic diet is just the Atkins diet repackaged in its 4th or 5th incarnation. Doctors keep pushing it out there because there’s a lot of money to be made by selling products, especially supplements.




      9
    2. Hi Paul :-) – if you are new to this, . . welcome aboard. But you may want to read some things so that you can understand where the majority of folks on this site are coming from.

      T. Colin Campbell, PH.D. – The China Study, Whole.
      Caldwell Esselstyne, M. D. – Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease
      John McDougall, M.D., – A Challening Second Opinion and anything else he has written – google his work
      Jeff Novick, R. D. – google his works
      Dean Ornish, M.D. – google his work
      Joel Kahn, M.D. – cardiologist
      Joel Fuhrman, M.D. – Eat For Life and his other works – google him.

      The best thing is for one to do their own homework first and develop their set of information.




      7
      1. @Rudy – Joel Fuhrman allows meat on his diet!

        http://www.chewfo.com/diets/eat-to-live-by-joel-fuhrman-2003-2011-what-to-eat-and-foods-to-avoid-food-list/
        Eat to Live by Joel Fuhrman MD (2003/2011): Food list – what to eat and foods to avoid
        For a nutritarian lifestyle:
        Eat mainly nutrient-dense, natural plant foods: vegetables, fruits, beans, nuts, and seeds. Have a variety. Aim for foods with high nutrient-per-calorie density – this is measured in Dr. Fuhrman’s Aggregate Nutrient Density Index or ANDI
        Eat few, if any, animal products (a few servings per week at most)
        Eat no or almost no foods that are completely empty of nutrients or toxic to the body, such as sugar, sweeteners, white flour, processed foods, and fast foods
        Super foods that you should include in your diet every day: G-BOMBS – greens, beans, onions, mushrooms, berries, and seeds

        http://lanimuelrath.com/mcdougall-vs-fuhrman-notes-for-you-from-the-great-plant-based-doctors-debate/
        The Dr. John McDougall – Dr. Joel Fuhrman Debate
        moderated by John Mackey McDougall Advanced Study Weekend, February 2012
        McDougall vs. Fuhrman: Notes for you from the great plant-based doctors debate

        Mackey:  Do we need to eat some amount of animal foods in order to be healthy?
        McDougall:  Any amount is dangerous because the behaviors are too difficult to change.  Keep the boundaries clear, because it’s too difficult to do things moderately.  Boundaries are important.  We can’t say if a little clean animal food will make you healthier or not.  But other issues as well as taste addictions are involved. It’s a behavioral issue:  you either have it or not.
        Fuhrman:  In our society we have been indoctrinated to block out “vegan” – it’s more useful to engage people in the program without a strict “cut it out”.  1 – 2 servings a week, not more than 6 oz. a week.




        1
    3. Paul,

      First a shout out to Rudy’s book list….good resources. I just responded to another question similar to yours…based on endothelial function, etc.

      I think the issues at hand is simple….. higher fat levels do have an impact on endothelial function…. in a negative way.

      Let’s try on this pubmed study this study on those younger folks and kids……who presurmably have the best endothelial function….. But there’s more….. how about we discount the arterial impact and instead focus on the same population …….The Short-Term Effect of Ketogenic Diet on Carotid Intima-Media Thickness and Elastic Properties of the Carotid Artery and the Aorta in Epileptic Children.. The conclusion…..”The body weight, height, body mass index, serum levels of triglyceride, total cholesterol, and low-density lipoprotein increased significantly at month 6…. “. Now they did not find a difference in the aorta or carotid function, HOWEVER what about the smaller vessels ? I’d suspect they would have been affected and I trust we can all agree that this finding will lead to “clogged” arteries ?

      However, the results of this diet result in micronutrient depletion, and a host of adverse lipid results, along with constipation….. all negative attributes of a good diet.

      Dr. Alan Kadish moderator for Dr. Greger http://www.Centerofhealth.com




      0
  10. After a fatty meal consisting of a double-bacon cheeseburger topped with an egg, french fries (with dipping sauce) and a beer I had an arrhythmia of 227bpm for about 40-minutes. I went to the ER, consequently had an ICD (defibrillator) implanted; not to long after ate an entire cheese pizza and got shocked because of an arrhythmia of 250bpm. Since then I decided to go WFPB 800-days hence no arrhythmia’s.




    14
    1. Wow, what great personal evidence of how food can heal or hurt us. Thanks for this encouraging information.

      A proud monthly supporter of Nutritionfacts.org




      6
    1. “Despite initial encouraging results, in more recent studies, fish and fish oil consumption have not only failed to reduce sudden cardiac death with omega-3s, but actually increased mortality in cardiac patients. For example, men with heart disease, advised to eat more oily fish, or supplied with fish oil capsules, were found to have a higher risk of cardiac death—maybe because of the contaminants in fish, such as mercury?”

      and

      “I covered the fish oil failure for heart disease. What about the increased cancer risk? Men with the highest circulating levels in their blood of the long chain omega-3 fat DHA were found to be at higher risk for prostate cancer. Though, a subsequent compilation of all such studies suggested EPA, the other major long chain omega-3 in fish and fish oil, may be more closely associated with increased cancer risk. ”

      from the transcript here – https://nutritionfacts.org/video/omega-3s-prostate-cancer-and-atrial-fibrillation/




      3
      1. Lisa – you are wrong.

        Omega-3 intake “reduces” cardiac death risk according to comprehensive new study

        PUBLIC RELEASE: 23-AUG-2017

        https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-08/g-oir082217.php

        *Omega-3s reduced the risk of cardiac death by 17 percent in people who had elevated triglycerides or LDL cholesterol. But patients who took more than 1 gram of EPA and DHA every day reduced their risk by almost 30 percent.

        “It’s important to note that these results align with the conclusions in the recent Science Advisory from the American Heart Association, which states that EPA and DHA omega-3 treatment ‘is reasonable’ for secondary prevention of coronary heart disease and sudden cardiac death,” said Dr. Kevin Maki, lead study author and Chief Scientist for Midwest Biomedical Research’s Center for Metabolic and Cardiovascular Health. “One notable feature of EPA and DHA omega-3 supplementation is the low risk associated with its use,” Maki said. “Because of the low risk for adverse effects, even a modest benefit is clinically meaningful.” The American Heart Association recommends eating two servings of fish each week. Two servings supply 250-500 mg of EPA and DHA per day. In addition, the AHA also recommends 1 gram of EPA and DHA per day for those who have been diagnosed with heart disease.




        0
        1. you are the wrong one.

          Disclaimer: AAAS and EurekAlert! are not responsible for the accuracy of news releases posted to EurekAlert! by contributing institutions or for the use of any information through the EurekAlert system.




          3
    1. Speaking of avocados and seeds, just read (somewhere) a few days ago that the avocado seed may be more nutritious than the avocado pulp. Just thought I would throw that in.

      Haven’t tried it yet but probably will the next time I buy avocados. I think they said to chop them up and throw them in a blender, but I’m not sure.




      0
      1. I tried it, it’s disgusting, I don’t think it’s a god thing, we would never eat it in the nature… Avocado flesh is delicious, but the seed is bitter, astringent, tough… I wouldn’t eat it like that. Maybe in some infusion, and we tried it as well it’s very bitter anyway.
        I hope it helps.

        *Karolina et AbelAlchimie d’Eveil*

        06 74 50 91 64 / 02 90 74 97 29

        *Notre nouveau site* http://www.alchimiedeveil.com *Notre Blog *www.alchimie-du-cru.com *Blog ENG *sacredrawfood.blogspot.com




        0
        1. Thanks for sharing that experience.

          we would never eat it in the nature

          In my case my house is the most un-natural place one is likely to find, so I will try it. I eat many things that are bitter… dark bakers chocolate per example, so I think I can find a way around that.

          The tough part might be hard to get around as my teeth aren’t young enough to tackle anything that may be jerky-like.

          Your idea for using it via an infusion does sound interesting though.




          0
      2. Lonie, I read the same thing in Daily Mall News and then through Dr Axe and then I look up the researches and found out that the avocado oil which is mainly contained in the pit, is more beneficial that the flesh, and indeed extremely beneficial. I now eat the pit also by cooking it whenever I cook rice or bean or oatmeal. It’s a little bit bitter but I can eat it. And then the most important thing is that I use avocado oil in my cooking and the oil is not only beneficial but it never goes rancid like olive oil and has a very high burning temperature.




        1
        1. Thanks for sharing Jerry.

          I find I can abide things such as bitterness if it is in a powder especially.

          Somebody is going to get the idea to take all those pits left over from making guacamole and turn them into powder.




          0
  11. Greg, there is fat in all vegetables–even lettuce. Why add more and potentially get heart attacks, diabetes, strokes, and cancer?

    I prefer the safety of the natural fat in my vegetables rather than artificially extracted fats and oils.




    5
        1. Health benefits of olives and olive oil: A Virginia Tech research team discovered that the olive-derived compound oleuropein helps the body secrete more insulin, a central signaling molecule in the body that controls metabolism

          https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170912161025.htm

          As Bin Xu, the lead researcher of the new study stated:

          Our work provides new mechanistic insights into the long-standing question of why olive products can be anti-diabetic… We believe it will not only contribute to the biochemistry of the functions of the olive component oleuropein, but also have an impact on the general public to pay more attention to olive products in light of the current diabetes epidemic.




          1
              1. No–the olives contain fiber and nutrients. The oil contains neither. In that regard, I view oil as being like sugar. It’s an extract that provides none of the benefits of the whole food.




                5
          1. Fish is not what I would use! Here’s a quote from a transcript of Dr. Greger’s:
            “Well, populations that eat more meat do seem to have higher rates of rheumatoid arthritis, and there have been some dramatic case reports of rheumatoid arthritis attacks triggered by the consumption of animal foods. These attacks started six to ten hours after ingestion of animal protein and lasted a few days, but they stopped when the patients stopped ingesting animal products. The researchers suggest that immune complexes formed by the body attacking animal proteins may promote autoimmune reactions in the joints themselves. And indeed, those with rheumatoid arthritis have striking elevations in antibodies to foods like fish, pork, egg whites, dairy proteins, and even some cereals. But it could also possibly be a pro-inflammatory property of meat fats or free radicals from the iron accumulating in the joints, or other mechanisms. But case reports and country-by-country analyses can be used only to raise questions. To prove cause-and-effect, you need an interventional study to put it to the test.

            And here we go: a 13-month-long randomized controlled trial of plant-based diets for rheumatoid arthritis. Patients were put on a vegan diet for three and a half months, and then switched to an egg-free vegetarian diet for the remainder of the study. Compared to the control group, who didn’t change their diet, the plant-based group had a significant improvement in morning stiffness within the first month, cutting the number of hours they suffered from joint stiffness in half. A drop in pain. A drop in disability. They reported subjectively feeling better, significant improvement in their grip strength, fewer tender joints, less tenderness per joint, and less swelling. They also had a drop in inflammatory markers in the blood: sed rate, C-reactive protein, and white count; highly significant and clinically relevant findings.

            What about osteoarthritis? Osteoarthritis is the most frequent cause of physical disability among older adults, affecting more than 20 million Americans, with 20% of us affected in the coming decades, and becoming more and more widespread among younger people.

            Osteoarthritis is characterized by loss of cartilage in the joint. We used to think it was just mechanical wear and tear, but it is now generally accepted as an active joint disease with a prominent inflammatory component. If the loss of cartilage is caused by inflammation, maybe if we put people on an anti-inflammatory diet, it could help; like with rheumatoid arthritis. Using optimal nutrition and exercise as the first-line intervention in the management of chronic osteoarthritis could well constitute the best medical practice.”

            Here’s the URL: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/food-as-medicine/

            I would try turmeric for joints instead and have found that it works.




            3
      1. Animal fats and processed vegetable fats are not required for maintaining optimal health. In fact saturated animal fat has been associated with increased risk of cancer, heart disease and diabetes. There is plenty of evidence supporting the role of a plant based diet for prevention and treatment of depression. Michael Greger has a number of videos on this topic. Here is an example of one, but you can find many more if you put the term ‘depression’ into the search box
        https://nutritionfacts.org/video/plant-based-diets-for-improved-mood-and-productivity/




        0
    1. Maybe. Weight loss does increase serum triglyceride levels, but whether this increases morbidity or mortality is not known. If one is overweight, attaining an optimal body fat percentage is so advantageous healthwise that the temporary increase in triglycerides is likely worth it. Yo-yo dieting with constant the increase and decrease of weight over time is likely not good.

      Dr. Ben




      0
    1. Any oil is not good, but that sounds like a pretty small amount and sure is less oil than the average american consumes in a day. If that’s the worst you’re doing, that doesn’t sound so bad.
      If you are looking to cut back oil even more, sometimes you can use things like broth or water in place of the oil.
      You might like this video about the best ways to cook potatoes:
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-best-way-to-cook-sweet-potatoes/

      Kelly
      Moderator




      1
    1. I know it’s confusing. All of the “advantages” of butter they list, are provided in higher amounts in other foods that have known health benefits like fruits and vegetables. There is no special thing unique about butter, and since even this article admits that butter increases cholesterol, why risk it?? “The researchers opined that although butter raises blood cholesterol in the long term, its short-term effects may actually be advantageous.” I’ll bet the short term benefits of eating broccoli are WAY better than the supposid short term benefits of eating butter. Bet the dairy industry funded every study linked in that article.




      3
        1. Paul Trudeau,

          Because this is all new to you, you probably don’t yet know how much “research” is actually marketing masquerading as research. This is often done in a way that hides the actual organization that is paying for the “research”, such as the dairy industry, meat, chicken and fish producer organizations, and such.

          The reason you can trust Dr Greger’s work is that he looks at who actually paid for the research as well as where it has been published. He isn’t selling anything that profits him personally. Funds from his books, etc. go back into spreading the word. He is not beholden to the beef industry, the egg folks, or Big Pharma. The man is a whole food missionary. You can learn a lot more about this in his introductory videos on his website.




          4
    2. Hi Paul, I’m a volunteer for Dr. Greger. Thank you so much for your question. This is a VERY good question, and one that most people often probably think, but are not honest enough to admit. I have a Bachelor’s and Master’s degree in nutrition, and still sometimes struggle to find out what’s true and what’s not.

      The first thing to think about is where this information is coming from. This individual does not have a degree in nutrition. She has experience in law and in business. That doesn’t mean that anybody without a degree in nutrition or health is always incorrect. It just makes you think about what they’re saying with a big more skepticism.

      The blog even admits that butter, although one study shows that it may improve cholesterol levels for a short time, increases cholesterol levels in the long-run. I’m not sure there is much therapeutic benefit to our cholesterol levels improving for a few hours before getting worse. The science is very clear: butter raises cholesterol levels, which increases our risk of heart disease.

      Also be weary of the industries that can often be behind the health claims. Of course the dairy industry is not going to warn people about the health concerns of eating butter. They want people to buy as much butter as possible, which includes creating studies to make their products look better.

      Check out this video for Dr. Greger’s presentation of the science on butter and the high levels of saturated fat that it contains.

      I hope this helps!




      0
    1. Hi LH, thanks for your comment. I am one of the volunteer on the website and I read the study and they used palm oil and not an animal based saturated fat.In the current study, they were unable to show any benefit on vascular function from replacing SFAs with MUFAs or carbohydrates. In the current study much of the saturated fat in the diet was provided by palm oil and milk fat rather than meat fats, and the MUFA was provided by refined high oleic sunflower oil. In the study it also indicates that it may well be that sources of MUFA or PUFA used to replace animal fats in the diet may contain non–fatty acid components that influence endothelial function and, in the future, closer attention needs to be focused on these components, especially in view of a recent report that showed beneficial effects of a Mediterranean diet rich in virgin olive oil on stroke (29). Or it could be the high level of fruits and vegetables that are antioxidants and are part of Mediterranean diet.




      2
    2. Thank you for your question. This is an interesting paper, but differs from the types of study reported in Michael Greger’s video. There are differences in methodology here. The patients were asked to fast prior to the tests and also avoid a high fat meal the night before the tests. The patients were then given a low fat supplement (the same supplement to all 3 groups) immediately prior to the vascular tests. Thus, the design of the tests was not to test the immediate effects of a high fat diet. It is not surprising that arterial function did not differ between the saturated and monounsaturated fat groups as all fats (unless packaged in a whole plant food) have an adverse effect on arterial function. This statement is backed by the ability of a low fat (no added oil) plant based diet to reverse heart disease and reduction the amount of artheroslerosis in the arteries of the heart (see studies by Dr Dean Ornish and Dr Caldwell Esselstyn). In the carbohydrate rich diet group there is not mention of what type of carbohydrates were encourages and patient may have replacing fat with refined carbohydrates. The authors also admit that the follow up of participants is not long enough to determine the longer term effects of these diets on arterial function. Despite the results of this study, we have to look at what is already known about heart disease. Animal based diets, those eaten in western/developed countries, are associated with a high incidence of heart disease such that it is the most common cause of death. However, those societies that eat a predominately plant based diet have a much lower incidence. If you look at the ‘blue zone’ countries which have the highest number of centenarians, one of the lifestyle factors in common is a predominantly plant based diet, which by definition will be low in saturated fat. Of course there are other factors involved, such a physical activity.




      0
  12. I don’t know anybody who goes to the sugar bowl and eats it by the spoonful. You have to look at all the things sugar is in, especially in large amounts. An example would be sodas. Years ago a bottle of Coke was six ounces. Now they’re bigger and bigger, and people leave the store or fast food joint or movie theater with quart-sized sodas.

    They’re eating a lot of junky foods with sugar added, but along with the sugar they’re eating refined flour, dairy products, and oils. I doubt you could even find jerky at 7-11 without sugar in it.

    So, while refined sugar is no health food, it also keeps a lot of unhealthy company.

    Our bodies thrive on the foods of our ancient ancestors – lots of green leaves, starchy roots, berries, fruits, a few nuts and seeds, whole grains, and beans of all kinds. Yes, they no doubt managed to eat a few insects and small animals they could snare, but those animals weren’t the staples of their diets because they weren’t easy to come by. And few, if any, wild animals are very fat.

    An excellent book, Whole, by T Colin Campbell, is dedicated to the importance of studying how foods affect us, not individual nutrients, the way Big Pharma studies factors within foods so they can mimic one thing for a drug. We don’t eat individual nutrients in isolation when we eat whole foods. When we do eat isolated nutrients they can throw our bodies out of balance. We’re equipped to handle whole foods because their nutrients are synergistic. There are very few exceptions to this, such as vitamin B12.




    7
    1. “Our bodies thrive on the foods of our ancient ancestors – lots of green leaves, starchy roots, berries, fruits, a few nuts and seeds, whole grains, and beans of all kinds.”

      Proof please – how far back in time do you want to go.




      0
  13. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/98/3/677.full#sec-2
    SFAs do not impair endothelial function and arterial stiffness1,2,3
    Thomas AB Sanders, Fiona J Lewis, Louise M Goff, and Philip J Chowienczyk on behalf of the RISCK Study Group

    Author Affiliations
    From the Diabetes and Nutritional Sciences Division (TABS, FJL, and LMG) and British Heart Foundation Centre (PJC), King’s College London, London, United Kingdom.




    1
    1. I’m no expert on the finer points of a study, but it seems this one would qualify as being reasonably well organized.

      But even if it were not well presented, it is still science and contributes to knowledge base. I vaguely remember having seen cases where a study is done in such a way that it moots all the studies before it and completely changes the science.

      Not saying this is one of those, but I’ll keep an open mind.




      1
  14. such incredible bullshit. Which fats you moron???? more vegan propaganda. Time for disciplinary action I think. But then agsin, you are funded by donations….. in a country where the average IQ elected Trump. Keep on spouting fake science.




    1
    1. Ong,

      endothelium can’t be considered organ, endothelium is a type of epithelium that lines the interior surface of blood vessels.

      I believe fat is the largest endocrine organ. If you weight 70 kg and have a 20% of body fat, then that’s a 14 kg of fat. Microbiota (up to 2 kg) is nothing compared to that.

      Hope this helps,

      Moderator Adam P.




      0
  15. Here is something about the Harvard Nurses Study which shows that nuts help prevent premature death. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/eating-nuts-linked-to-healthier-longer-life-201311206893

    One thought I have is that dogmatic low fat advocates try to show the harm in nuts while dogmatic low carb zealots deny the preponderance of evidence for the healthfulness of whole grains. I do agree with “low fat” in being opposed to all animal fat and probably oils. I agree with low carb in being opposed to refined carbohydrates. But whole plant sources of fat as well as carbs are healthy. I eat nuts, seeds AND whole grains everyday. I also eat a lot of carbs in the form of fruit.




    4
  16. I follow the WFPB nutrition no oil. Since six months ago I take Testa omega-3 Algae oil DHA+EPA .Only a few days ago I realised that in the product some sunflower oil is included .Shall I discontinue taking Testa or not ? I would appreciate an answer from you .




    0
    1. I am just speaking on the top of my head and you certainly don’t have to take my word for it. MY guess is that it wouldn’t be harmful if the oil was only less than one tablespoon or even teaspoon it. Just don’t eat any other oil or animal fat the rest of the day. It is just eating a lot of oil which could be harmful. Of course I may be wrong.




      0
      1. Thank you for your answer Daniel .Unfortunately parts of it are omitted rather for “technical” reasons .I am aware of the literature about oils and the ratio that should exist between omega 3 and 6 but I find Testa’s mention of sunflower oil “hidden” in the ingredients at the back of the box they sent me while on the front prominently they write “Algae oil …”
        If the ratio is 1:1-4 I will keep them; otherwise I will put them in the bin. But how can I find out.
        .Perhaps “THEA”
        can HELP us.




        0
      1. Dear NurseKelly thank you for your answer Your email also has many missing words but the link you send me is intact .
        I will choose among Dr Greger’s selection .
        Thank you




        0
  17. I buy grass fed/finished 93/7 ground beef from my local Wegmans – imported from Uraguay

    A 4 ounce serving has 8 grams of fat of whivh 3 grams are SFA and 70 mgs of cholesterol.

    If I have 2 servings per week just how dangerous is it?




    0
    1. All the beef in Uruguay is grass fed. This study from Uruguay shows that the more meat/beef you eat, the greater your cancer risk.
      “… intake of beef and lamb were also associated with increased risk ofseveral cancer sites ….
      Our results confirm earlier findings of increased risk of digestive tract cancers, butsuggest that meat consumption also increases the risk of several other cancers”
      http://journal.waocp.org/?sid=Entrez:PubMed&id=pmid:19640186&key=2009.10.3.429

      All the hype about grass-fed beef being supposedly healthy isn’t confirned by the experiences of countries where the beef is all grass-fed. Great marketing gimmick though.




      3
    2. All meat, regardless of the way the animal is reared, has a similar profile of negative effects including increased risk of heart disease, cancer and diabetes – some of our biggest killers. Yes, there is a dosage effect such that eating only 2x per week is better than eating everyday. However, for optimal health it is best not to eat meat at all as it is not required for health as supported by all the dietetic societies. All meat, regardless of what the animal has eaten, is a source of saturated fat and cholesterol and this will have a negative effect on arterial function. All meat will result in higher levels of blood IGF-1 which is linked with cancer development. Grass fed meat is also just as unsustainable for society/environment as factory meat farming.




      0
      1. I’m NOT a vegan as I eat a small number of eggs per month, I drink raw goat milk/kefir daily and I also eat small amounts of meat and fish with the rest of my diet being plant based.

        I was taking 5 mgs of Crestor per day – the dose was recently reduced to 5 mgs EOD.

        Last blood work on 9/22/17.
        Cholesterol 123 mg/dL
        Triglycerides 52 mg/dL
        HDL 81 mg/dL
        LDL Calculated 32 mg/dL

        The plaque on my LAD is regressing
        CT Scan 2/28/14
        LAD – 3 plaques 
        Volume 34 cubic mm
        Calcium Score – 47

        CT Scan 8/17/17
        Left anterior descending coronary artery
        1 Plaque
        Volume 26.7 cubic mm
        Calcium Score 36.0

        Comments?




        0

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