Flashback Friday: Which Vegetable Binds Bile Best?

Flashback Friday: Which Vegetable Binds Bile Best?
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Which foods are best at removing carcinogenic bile acids from the body: asparagus, beets, broccoli, cabbage, carrots, cauliflower, collards, eggplant, green beans, kale, mustard greens, okra, or peppers? And do they work better raw or cooked?

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To lower the risk of diet and lifestyle-related premature degenerative diseases and to advance human nutrition research, relative bile acid–binding potential of foods and fractions need to be evaluated. Since the bile acids are absorbed back in to the system they may increase cancer risk.

Some vegetables bind bile acids better than others. We know that those eating more plant-based diets are at a lower risk of heart disease and cancer, which could in part be because of phytonutrients in plants that act as antioxidants and potent stimulators of natural detoxifying enzymes in our bodies. They can also lower cholesterol and detoxify harmful metabolites, functions that can be predicted by their ability to bind bile acids so as to remove them from the body.

This group of researchers discovered three important things. First, an over five-fold variability in bile acid binding among various vegetables that had similar fiber content, indicating that the bile acid binding is not related to the total dietary fiber content, but instead some combination of unique phytonutrients yet to be determined.

Second, they found that steaming significantly improves the bile acid binding of collards, kale, mustard greens, broccoli, peppers, cabbage, as well as beets, eggplant, asparagus, carrots, green beans, and cauliflower, suggesting steaming vegetables may be more healthful than those consumed raw.

And finally, which vegetables kicked the most bile binding butt? Turnips turn-up last. Then comes cabbage, cauliflower, bell peppers, spinach, asparagus and green beans. Mustard greens and broccoli are better. Then eggplant, carrots and Brussels sprouts basically tie for the #5 slot. Then collards at #4. We have beets, kale, and okra left in the running. Any guesses as to #1? Kale gets the bronze, and beets get the gold. Kale, surprisingly, got beat.

Both these papers ended the same way: inclusion of all these vegetables in our daily diets should be encouraged. Our two leading killers are to a large extent preventable by appropriate diet and lifestyle modifications, such as eating these vegetables, which when consumed regularly, may lower the risk of premature degenerative diseases and improve public health.

To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video. This is just an approximation of the audio contributed by Katie Schloer.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

To lower the risk of diet and lifestyle-related premature degenerative diseases and to advance human nutrition research, relative bile acid–binding potential of foods and fractions need to be evaluated. Since the bile acids are absorbed back in to the system they may increase cancer risk.

Some vegetables bind bile acids better than others. We know that those eating more plant-based diets are at a lower risk of heart disease and cancer, which could in part be because of phytonutrients in plants that act as antioxidants and potent stimulators of natural detoxifying enzymes in our bodies. They can also lower cholesterol and detoxify harmful metabolites, functions that can be predicted by their ability to bind bile acids so as to remove them from the body.

This group of researchers discovered three important things. First, an over five-fold variability in bile acid binding among various vegetables that had similar fiber content, indicating that the bile acid binding is not related to the total dietary fiber content, but instead some combination of unique phytonutrients yet to be determined.

Second, they found that steaming significantly improves the bile acid binding of collards, kale, mustard greens, broccoli, peppers, cabbage, as well as beets, eggplant, asparagus, carrots, green beans, and cauliflower, suggesting steaming vegetables may be more healthful than those consumed raw.

And finally, which vegetables kicked the most bile binding butt? Turnips turn-up last. Then comes cabbage, cauliflower, bell peppers, spinach, asparagus and green beans. Mustard greens and broccoli are better. Then eggplant, carrots and Brussels sprouts basically tie for the #5 slot. Then collards at #4. We have beets, kale, and okra left in the running. Any guesses as to #1? Kale gets the bronze, and beets get the gold. Kale, surprisingly, got beat.

Both these papers ended the same way: inclusion of all these vegetables in our daily diets should be encouraged. Our two leading killers are to a large extent preventable by appropriate diet and lifestyle modifications, such as eating these vegetables, which when consumed regularly, may lower the risk of premature degenerative diseases and improve public health.

To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video. This is just an approximation of the audio contributed by Katie Schloer.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Doctor's Note

Why would we want to bind bile in the first place? Make sure you see the “prequel” to this video, Breast Cancer and Constipation.

More raw versus cooked comparisons in:

Beets also have a number of other remarkable properties. Check out my video series on Doping with Beet Juice, including Hearts Shouldn’t Skip a Beet.

Since this video originally came out, I’ve added more videos on the benefits of beets:

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

157 responses to “Flashback Friday: Which Vegetable Binds Bile Best?

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  1. Bile is made from cholesterol, so eating fiber that binds it and is eliminated in stools is a great way to lower cholesterol. This is why oat fiber is popular and wheat bran is not promoted for heart health.

  2. Watching this while eating my daily snack of broccoli, carrots, celery and peppers. Looks like I should do a bit more steaming too! Great video. Thanks all for the info!

  3. I went grocery shopping to a store, which I hadn’t been to last night and they had 5 or 6 organic vegetables in their salad bar, so I ended up doing a great big kale, spinach, red cabbage, green cabbage, carrots, broccoli, corn salad and brought it home and added in my organic mushrooms, tomatoes, cauliflower, broccoli sprouts, crunchy sprouts, pomegranate seeds. Plus red kidney beans, black beans, and chickpeas.

    I dressed it with nutritional yeast, apple cider vinegar, and amino acids and threw in some garlic hummus and guacamole.

    Yes, no wrap at all. The vegetables wouldn’t fit.

    Boy, I wanted so much to add in some of the nonorganic vegetables and I did end up adding in nonorganic artichoke hearts.

    Yes, I like vegetables.

      1. “blow it”, not likely :) You probably get more nutrients in one meal than someone following the SAD does in a 5 day workweek. Do you mean Bragg Liquid Aminos, love that on my veggies.

        Great video!

      2. Not to make a big deal out of Bragg’s, but there are a few things I don’t like about it.

        1) People tend to think it’s low-salt, but because the label uses a small serving size, it’s deceptive. I think it’s pretty much the same as tamari.
        2) What’s with the “amino acid” thing? I think it’s pretty clear there is no need to supplement a healthy diet (or pretty much any diet) with amino acids.
        3) It’s unclear how this product is processed. If I recall they are pretty secretive about it.

        If I were to look for a salty sauce, I’d go with an aged tamari over this dubious product.

          1. ps: Braggs liquid amino’s contain 160 mg of sodium per 1/2 teaspoon; tamari sauce contains 157 mg of sodium per 1/2 teaspoon.

          2. Thanks, Dr. J. It’s unclear how a soy sauce processed in this manner remains so popular with the health conscious community. I could be wrong, but I suspect the product is a relic of a time when most people believed we couldn’t get enough protein, especially on a plant based diet. Would love to see a video on this.

            1. I think you are absolutely right about Braggs. It’s a highly processed food, which means it is definitely not “whole food.” And today we also know that too much protein is associated with diabetes, heart disease and cancer. The amino acid methionine is particularly implicated in cancer. It’s fine to get the trace amounts that you need from an all-whole-plant diet, but concentrating the amino acids like that? Not a good idea. And while we’re at it, I note that Braggs nutritional yeast product contains added B vitamins, including folic acid–not a “health food” at all. All in all, this company is behind the times.

              1. Braggs is a good company, at least I know I can get authentic extra virgin olive oil from them. This is good because some of us have no interest in going 100% oil free, so choosing better oils is important in that case and the authenticity of those oils is extremely important. I used to get their nutritional yeast and it’s good in that there was zero lead found in the study Dr. Greger did on nutritional yeast brands. But I no longer get fortified nutritional yeast because of the folic acid, plus Sari nutritional yeast seems to have a lot more nutrition than the less naturally grown, fortified ones and it tastes amazing.

                I think Braggs liquid aminos is a better option than soy sauce for a few reasons, but I like to use Coconut Secret liquid aminos for my soy sauce alternative because it has so much less salt and I don’t like the over salty taste of Braggs or soy sauce.

            2. It’s more likely *because* it’s high in salt and people want to delude themselves into believing it’s a low sodium product. I can’t imagine using soy sauce or these other weird concoctions like “aminos,” they would be way too salty. Just use garlic, ginger, and green onions on your rice, you’ll be fine.

      3. Deb that sounds so good! I agree with Michael, you definitely didn’t blow it! Modest amounts of salt added to the diet likely isn’t harmful and may be helpful to some (I do not do well on no salt for long periods of time). Don’t forget about the miso study–which Dr. Greger has referenced–where traditional miso (soy miso) was not shown to have any ill-effects like regular table salt might, despite being extremely high in sodium, giving miso the green light. This is likely due to all the antioxidants in the soy. So one could speculate that antioxidants (in high enough amounts) negate harmful effects of sodium–which the vitamin c study also helped to demonstrate. And our kidneys are really good at regulating sodium and potassium when functioning properly and when we’re not being saturated with a SAD.

        1. And if you wanted a liquid aminos that is lower in sodium, Coconut Secret coconut aminos are dramatically lower and still tastes really good although not as salting. But that’s what I use for dipping my vegan sushi rolls and in stir fries.

    1. Hi Deb, Sounds like a fantastic salad! Any particular reason you added the amino acids? It would seem to me you would get a complete variety from all those vegetables and beans.

      1. Hal,

        Well, it was a salad bar and at the end, they had things like apple cider vinegar and oil and two types of amino acids and other things and I crossed oil off of the list, and I didn’t know the ingredients in their salad dressings, so I was worried that they would have dairy or oil, then, I got to the two types of amino acids and that the thought that I had never tried amino acids.

        Kind’ve like soy sauce.

        1. I ended up eating every bite of the salad, which often doesn’t happen. The amino acids added something.

          I haven’t solved for salad dressings yet, so sometimes my salads have been boring.

          The wraps are never boring because I use things like the hummus and guacamole.

          1. The beets were not organic and I didn’t take any, because my naked beet chips are organic.

            Do the rest of you skip the vegetables which are not organic all of the time?

            For instance, the artichoke hearts near me are always not organic.

            Would you never eat them?

            Or eat a little of them?

            I know it seems picayune and I seriously enjoyed the artichoke hearts but my ridiculous after-thought was, “Was there enough Roundup in that one food that it killed all of the good bacteria from my salad?”

            1. Hey, Deb, where I live there’s a great grocery store that has all kinds of vegetables under the sun at their salad bar. I love to go there, but nothing’s organic. I can’t get an organic salad bar where I live, so that grocery store is my preferred “eating out” location–just saying, while at home, everything’s organic (or else!)

              1. Thank you for your comment and service to this website!

                I always appreciate you!

                And, yes, I am getting there. Slowly, but surely.

              2. I took a course on the Gerson Therapy which recommends coffee enemas to increase bile flow and thus release toxins from the liver. Is there any validity to this? After watching Dr. Gerger’s video and learning that bile acids are carcinogenic, I would assume one would not want to stimulate the flow of bile into the intestine. Can you ask Dr. Greger about this – thanks

                  1. Gerson therapy has been around since the 1930’s or so (and someone please speak up if you know of better dates). That is plenty of time for Gerson to have a deep and wide data base to show us that their therapy works. But, they offer none. None! You cannot find out if their therapy works BEFORE you go to their clinic.
                    That’s what my boyfriend did when he was diagnosed with his pancreatic cancer. He met a number of lovely people during his time there with whom he stayed in contact after he left their treatment of him. Friends with breast cancer, brain cancer and others, all of whom were looking to live as much as P wanted to.
                    Let me just say that P is just as dead as all of the people he met at the Gerson center.
                    I, personally, would be glad to support Gerson clinics if we could see some hard data and if we could see that people are still alive. But so far I’ve seen neither.

              3. Spring,

                I gained 2 pounds this week. I didn’t have my oatmeal and flax and nuts this week.

                My food for a day has been a Sweet Earth vegan lentil and something burrito, which I loved a bag of Kale chips. A bag of beet chips. About 5 or 6 Mary’s Gone Crackers black seaweed version. A Brazil nut. A very large salad with apple cider vinegar, no oil hummus and guacamole. A venti soy green tea latte and a cup and a half of oat milk in coffee.

                I feel like I am not going to focus on losing weight. I am going to stick with nutrition and changing my taste buds.

                Next year, maybe I can try out How Not To Diet.

                1. I am wondering if my salad is 2000 calories without oil or seeds or nuts.

                  My brain is improving so much that I want to stick with eating avocado.

                  I decided to move the salad to lunch today and maybe I will be so nutritionally satisfied that I will just eat beans and rice for dinner.

                  I mentally can’t really figure it out and I don’t want to discourage myself.

                2. Deb, I find it helpful to have 1 to 3 good bottled dressing choices in the fridge for those times when you’re busy, or you just dont have the right ingredients on hand https://www.litehousefoods.com/products/organic-raspberry-vinaigrette-dressing This is one kind I like. You can see the nutritional label there. I found many no-oil dressing recipes are combos of other condiments, or, some veggies blended with nuts. There are a couple of no oil or minimal fat dressings in italian/mediterranean flavours too, on store shelves. (I don’t mind throwing a walnut or a few pumpkin seeds on a salad, but I don’t want to waste fat calories on a dressing)

            2. In my opinion, better to eat the non-organic vegetables than no vegetables. And though I am critical of Braggs Amino’s, better to use it if that will encourage you to eat more of the good stuff. (Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.)

            3. Stop buying into the peudoscience that glyphosate is not safe. If you can open your mind another few millimeters, check out the Genetic Literacy Project, which is evidence based and can help you understand that organic is a marketing gimmick and glyphosate is safe. And organic produce pesticide use is often higher than that used in conventional produce, for obvious reasons. Organic food = western privilege. There is also an FB page and a website called We Love GMOs & Vaccines, and they have scientists checking in and setting people straight all the time. What’s next? You going to tell us you’re anti-vax?

          2. “I ended up eating every bite of the salad, which often doesn’t happen. The amino acids added something.”

            There you go… it helped you get a bunch of awesomely nutritious food in you AND enjoy every bit! Enjoyment in and of itself is healthy for us on a cellular level e.g our telomeres. It makes us happier, calmer, more focused on being in the moment, etc. And by Dr. Greger’s standards, all you did was add a yellow light food to a feast of green light foods. You did good. In my opinion, the healthiest thing would be to be happy about how healthy you eat and allow yourself to enjoy those foods as well.

          1. Thanks, Hal!

            Yes, that was what was in the back of my mind.

            I need to do some of the lessons at the culinary gym site and see if I can get inspired for salad dressings.

            I like that site because it is templates rather than recipes. I feel like it may help me think better about how to pair these foods.

            Recipes sort of burnt me out.

            Cooking every day for my brother burnt me out.

            These months of wraps and now, salads, has been like a palate refresher.

            I haven’t had any spices and that is the drawback, but I have really upped my vegetable intake again.

            Getting my mental palate cleansed for the How Not To Diet Cookbook.

    2. Organic is a marketing gimmick. I only eat conventional and GMO produce. Plus organic uses more land with fewer outputs. Kinda something you want to avoid if you care about land use and, well, feeding as many people as possible. I’d actually be embarrassed to buy organic food. I’d feel like an idiot.

      1. I seldom buy organic myself. But that’s mainly because I am a cheapskate. Also because very little is available where I live.

        However, I am not sure that your opinions are correct.because of multiple studies like this which have emerged over the years

        ” Conclusions: Our results clearly show that the organic food products have an higher totalantioxidant activity and bioactivity than the conventional foods.”
        https://www.europeanreview.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/441.pdf

        And then there are studies like this

        “CONCLUSIONS: The consumption of an organic diet for one week significantly reduced OP pesticide exposure in adults.
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24769399

    1. Interesting folk wisdom.

      For those who do not know, bile is made in the liver and stored in the gallbladder. Gallstones are hardened bile.

      Aside: fasting can increase the risk of gallstone formation, which is why Dr. Longo recommends daily time-restricted eating be limited to 12-14 hours max, since longer than 14 hours significantly increases the risk of gallstone formation.

      1. “….fasting can increase the risk of gallstone formation, which is why Dr. Longo recommends daily time-restricted eating be limited to 12-14 hours max, since longer than 14 hours significantly increases the risk of gallstone formation.”
        – – – – – –

        Interesting aside, Gengo. It seems there are many at this site who are anxiously awaiting Dr. G’s take (“research”) on intermittent fasting. I’m not one of them.

        I have no problem with the 12-14 hours bit. My evening meal is usually scarfed down by 6:30 PM, and I don’t have breakfast until around 8 a.m. I haven’t eaten between meals — nor ever had the desire to — since I was in my early twenties (a long time ago).

        1. YR, My kids used to have a poster over their beds of a bunch of hippopotami falling into a small boat, overturning it. and underneath the message: “More is not necessarily better!!”. (I think I learned more from that poster than they did.)

        2. I naturally gravitated to the same kind of eating schedule. I don’t worry about the 16 hour thing, though. I’m doing fine maintaining my low BMI with how I eat now. Different strokes, but intermittent fasting does not trump the quality of the diet. You can intermittent fast on a plate of chicken, beef, and butter, but who cares.

      2. Can you direct me to where Dr. Longo discusses this? His book perhaps? I’ve heard several interviews with him, but I don’t recall him specifying much information on IF. I’d love to hear his thoughts and rational. Thanks.

        1. Sure. He discusses fasting in some depth in his new book The Longevity Diet.

          “ Time-restricted eating: Restrict your eating to eleven to twelve hours or less per day. For example, if you eat breakfast after 8 a.m., finish dinner before 8 p.m. Shorter periods of feeding (ten hours or less) have been shown to be even more effective in promoting health, but they are much more difficult to comply with and may increase the risk of side effects, such as the formation of gallstones.”

            1. YR

              Sorry to tell you this but, since a diet is basically the foods that a person habitually eats, you’ve been on a diet all your life.

              By the way, did you know that Roman Catholics have historically long been fond of the Diet of Worms?

              1. Fumbles:

                Yes, yes, we know. We all follow a diet of some sort, because we inject food into our mouths, whether occasionally or way too much. And we like our labels, i.e. flexitarian diet.

                Ah yes, the Roman Catholics. I was a member of that outfit back in the day. They (and all organized religions) seemed to think theirs was the “only true faith.” But I’m not about to bring up that particular can of worms.

                https://theholygermanempire.weebly.com/the-diet-of-worms.html

                1. YR,

                  Really? You inject food into your mouth? Do you eject it’s digested products out your other end?

                  I put food into my mouth, with a spoon, a fork, or even my fingers. But I’ve never injected it into my mouth. What is your technique? And why do you prefer it over the more traditional methods of ingesting food? Thanks!

                  1. Dr. J.

                    OOPs, wrong word! *blush blush* Yes, I ingest it of course. I suppose it would be possible to inject it somehow, but I’d need a special instrument. :-)

                    1. No need to blush, not every word has to be astute and literal. Expressions are perfectly fine. But this was an amusing conversation to read in any case, good job everyone.

                2. YR, I should HOPE that a religion believes they’re the “true faith” …what is the point of having it as a faith if you don’t think it’s the truth?? Lol. Nothing wrong with that, so long as you respect others, too. I have my own faith personal maybe only to me (maybe we all do to some degree), I think that it’s true, that’s why I believe it.

                  1. Shaylen, I don’t understand that. As Krishnamurti said “Truth is a pathless land”.
                    Why is it necessary to claim exclusivity? That’s what leads to religious wars, religion-inspired terrorism, etc. It’s what I call the ‘evil seed’ in most religions. Once planted, it grows and causes no end of trouble.

                    1. gengoakusha, I don’t understand your reasoning. That is to say that no one can have a belief in anything or else there will be war. It’s easy to say that religion inspired wars and terrorism but then you can say that about almost anything… We shouldn’t use natural resources because they too, inspired war. Water sources inspired wars, for crying out loud. Humans create war and terrorism, the excuses they use to do so are just that, but the source of the terror or war is something deeper e.g. greed for money, resources, or power, pride, extremism, hate, etc. And really it’s disrespectful to decent religious people to credit terrorists for acting out of religion–they’re terrorist because they’re extremists and they’re violent and they’re hateful, these people don’t represent religion, they represent psychopaths.
                      The key to peace in this world (not that I ever see it happening), is respecting one another and the real key, is respecting all life–not wiping our minds free of in depending thinking and whatever faith we might have.

        2. Robert, just as an aside, I recall seeing a video where Dr Longo is being interviewed by a former student. During that discussion, the topic of IF of course came up, and he did say that people with heart disease should not fast longer than 12 hrs. If I find it (on youtube) I will post it here. He himself eats twice a day except when he goes home to italy lol

          1. Barb, As I’ve mentioned in other posts, Longo also says that **daily intermittent fasting**, meaning no calorie intake, should not be longer than 14 hours to reduce the risk of gallstone formation (which goes up substantially after 14 hours) and that 12-13 hrs is sufficient. I’ve always been skeptical of water fasts. Gallstones are to be avoided. There are various risk factors (female, older, overweight, …). If they become symptomatic, the standard treatment is to remove the gallbladder! I have always been skeptical of long water fasts.

            https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gallstones/symptoms-causes/syc-20354214

            1. “…. meaning no calorie intake, should not be longer than 14 hours.”

              – – – – —

              And this 14 hours fast can take place during the sleeping hours rather than the up-and-about hours, yes?

            2. Thanks gengogakusha! I narrowly escaped having my gallbladder taken out a while back .. I would prefer to keep it. I have Buscopan pills here in case of emergencies, but since I started leaving dairy off the menu, we have not suffered any gallbladder problems.

              One question I did have was about the 4 or 5 day fasts.. doing one of those once every few months would be alright then? ie it’s the ongoing daily IF that presents the gallbladder hazard?

              1. Barb, That’s a good question, but I don’t know the answer. Since you’ve had problems in the past, if it were me, I’d be especially cautious and would only do fasting-mimicking diets every so often as Longo prescribes. I don’t do anything more than 12-13 hr fasts but then fasting is contraindicated for me (too thin, over 70).

                1. I don’t do anything more than 12-13 hr fasts but then fasting is contraindicated for me (too thin, over 70).”
                  – – – – –

                  Ditto to that.

      3. Thanks for this info, gengo-gakusha! You never hear that little factoid among all the fasting hype! Can’t wait for Dr. Greger’s series of fasting…

    2. I have always wondered how my great-grandmother and grandmother knew so much and am consistently amazed at how much they got right.

      Back then, they didn’t even graduate high school and yet they were so smart.

  4. How does this compare to the bile acid binding ability of beans (dried beans)? Because of their high soluble fiber content, I heard they were the best thing you could eat for binding bile acid.

  5. Hi Randy Sandberg, thanks for your question. Your liver is the organ that produces bile. Your gallbladder usually stores it. In your case the extra bile can enter digestive system. Limiting or avoiding high-fat, oily, greasy, and processed foods, which are harder for your body to digest will help. These are basically a good habits for us all. Fiber is good for all of us. The cooked vegetables referred in this video of Dr Greger is fine. Everyone has to find their own body tolerance level and the amount and the type that agrees with them.

  6. This video gave me a chuckle. My maternal grandmother (babushka) was forever telling us kids to eat borscht and the beet greens she prepared. Am now in my 70’s and still make a pot of borscht at least one a month. One of my better habits.

    1. Deb, Good interview with Gianna … Dr McD really looks spiffy in that coat and tie. Guess he decided to dress up a little for this interview. Thanks for sharing the link.

      1. Hal,

        I thought so, too.

        I thought both interviews were excellent.

        I went back to Jeff’s site and he is still trying to destroy Dr. Fuhrman and what I noticed is that I felt healthier and happier listening to the conversation between Dr. McDougall and Dr. Fuhrman and I felt agitated again at VegSource. It would not be healthy for me to keep going back there. He adds stress to these topic debates and stress probably undoes the benefits of this process more than anything.

        I don’t mind people debating topics, but trying to destroy people grieves me so deeply.

        I don’t mind that the topic came up, but not this way.

        The way Dr. McDougall handled it of bringing it up and giving Colin his say and giving Dr. Fuhrman his say and being willing to give grace because of the fact that Dr. Fuhrman has so many genuine success stories and those are closer to 50-pound weight loss on his plan.

        That is the ONLY part I would care about now. I would not want the old study used and he isn’t using it, but if he is telling the truth about the rest of it, then, unless all of his studies have the same problems, then it is time to drop it, especially if it was just a mistake.

        The fact that he would have been under scrutiny since then, if the newer studies don’t have the statistical errors, then drop it.

        The fact that 90% of doctors don’t know how to do statistics makes it plausible that neither do all researchers.

        The fact that the researcher was working with a statistician and that Dr. Fuhrman is saying that they used the wrong data set or something, then it is time to just not crucify someone for not being perfect.

        If Dr. Fuhrman is not telling the whole truth, there is nobody saying that and without proof of intentional wrongdoing, with the researcher saying that it was her fault, those are times to give the benefit of the doubt.

        Now it has crossed the line in a way that is so upsetting to me.

        1. That vegsource guy is a lowlife. Don’t forget he has also attacked Dr.
          Greger. In one video he had the gall to say he’s a colleague of Dr.
          Fuhrman’s, even though he has zero training in any relevant field and no clinical or research experience. He’s made a number of particularly inflammatory videos that do not stand up to scrutiny. No one should pay attention to him.

          1. 100% agree with gengogakusha… vegsource is a joke! He has zero credentials or even informal qualifications… he’s an ex tv movie producer or something posting serious medical advice and using cheap gimmicks to draw in an audience like using an angry picture of Dr. Greger, etc. The guy is worse than an idiot because he’s giving out harmful, misleading advice. People like him are gross and shameless. We really should pay them no attention, it doesn’t help the world when we do.

        2. Deb, I agree with you that it is time for this Jeff guy to stop trying to destroy Dr Fuhrman. It seems there are a lot “ankle-biters” trying to destroy successful people these days any way they can. Glad to see that Dr Fuhrman is fighting back rather than rolling over to these mediocre do-nothings.

          1. Hal,

            Somebody needed to ask the questions, but Dr. McDougall just did the right process. This slander and destroy people and not listen to their side is for the birds.

            1. The concept that his statistician used the wrong data set and now we need to destroy him for the rest of his life is crazy.

          2. I wouldn’t call Jeff Novick a mediocre do-nothing. LOL. He has many contributions to WFPB eating. I don’t follow all the “diet wars,” my biggest concern is that Fuhrman’s diet is based in privilege (and exhausting to follow LOL). . Starches are cheap, plentiful, can be purchased year-round, and are more satiating than 90 pounds of greens. LOL. And a high starch diet is what the Blue Zones people base their diets around, not bunches of kale. My primary sources of calories are rice and potatoes.

  7. I watched those interviews and a Dr Lisle interview.

    I think for me the answer of which diet is better depends upon the person.

    Dr Fuhrman relies on people getting over their food addictions and he uses calorie restriction.

    Dr Barnard and Dr McDougall practice fat restriction for people who can’t do calorie restriction because their stretch receptors don’t register fat.

    My question for Dr Fuhrman would be, if people can’t lose weight eating nuts are those people better off being overweight nut eaters eating lots of nutrition or not.

    1. I think Dr Fuhrman and Dr Lisle would debate whether the people with stretch receptor problems or metabolism problems from previous dieting, where the metabolism of the Biggest Losers for instance was still messed up 6 years later where they can only eat 1000 calories or something like that.

      Thyroid being sluggish. Just being older.

      I have been trying to do this process for a year and a third or so and I have lost some weight but not nearly down to ideal weight and I like having the fats because my brain feels better, but I am not losing weight.

      1. Those of us who have done low calorie diets in the past know that if I go in Dr Fuhrman’s direction, it has to be permanently lower calorie or you gain back, plus some. I feel like my brain is doing better with fats, but that I won’t lose weight until I go lower fat.

        1. My brain is getting healthier.

          So I will wait until next year to try to move toward something else.

          Dr Greger and if that doesn’t work, I will end up trying The Starch Solution.

          Right now, I am just going to make sure that I don’t gain again.

          1. I listen to Dr Fuhrman talk fasting, which I did a lot of as a Christian and he talks about juicing, which I liked because it helped with my mood and might help with my eyesight but I did not lose weight with either of those and I could never stick with low calories.

            Anyway, that is my processing of why I think all of the doctors are probably right for some people and they all may be wrong for other people.

            1. No matter what, you don’t destroy people because of hearsay or suspicion.

              You do ask your questions and investigate things and there is data now, not just then.

        2. Hi, Deb, I think some of us are struggling with the nuts/seeds/weight issue and are in the middle of confusing recommendations. We have Fuhrman recommending nuts and seeds and some of his recipes have a quite high percentage of fat (30-45%.) We have Campbell saying lower fat (8-10% or so?), and McDougall saying “The fat you eat is the fat you wear.” There are people saying to eat all you want–and for some of us that doesn’t really work. Maybe, to use one of Campbell’s words in a different setting, it takes a “symphony” of many different things: eating when calm and “mindful,” eating the right things, moderating Fuhrman’s recipes to lower fat, being active/exercising, not eating right before sleeping, and others. I am thankful to Jeff Nelson for bringing up the topic because it’s been a confusing thing for me, (and I’ve had wars about this in my mind,) as well, and I’m glad someone brought it front and center. It’s too bad feathers were ruffled. I’ve stopped my DHA supplements and plan to have my doctor check my DHA. I am trying to moderate recipes. I have many Dr. Fuhrman recipes in his books and they are delicious, but I find they are still tasteful with less fat–say, half as much sometimes. I think I will try to tend in the direction of Campbell’s recommendations for fat levels. At the moment, I see some chia for salad dressings and flax for health as my main sources of fat unless I am using a Fuhrman recipe that suggests nuts/seeds in which case I will chop the amount of nuts/seeds that I add to a more reasonable level. I had cooked a large amount of food last night for supper and after eating a big bowl of it, I still had an appetite, but it was 8 o’clock and I just decided eating after 8 was unnecessary/unwise, so I stopped eating and was reading. A half hour later I realized I wasn’t hungry really so it must take my system a little while to register that I’m full. So… that’s where I’m at….

          1. Great points Liisa. I left this link in a note to Deb , above https://www.litehousefoods.com/products/organic-raspberry-vinaigrette-dressing for her to have a look at. I know she works and it might simplify things to have dressings available at home that she doesn’t have to worry about.
            The flax in my oatbran plus a walnut every couple of days is my fat allowance. There may be some men that can eat like crazy and not gain weight, but not me. I have to watch it… I can’t eat ‘normal-looking meals except rarely on holidays. 1400 calories or therabouts .. oatmeal for breakfast, soup or salad for lunch and dinner, fruit for dessert after both, and thats it. I can feel hungry often even with a full stomach. To get into losing weight mode, beans and greens (not rice!) does the trick.

            1. At first, dressings were such a problem for me, but I like Kim Campbell’s balsamic vinaigrette and it’s my “go to” dressing. It’s so easy–throw everything into a high speed blender and you have some left over for the rest of the week. It has chia AND dates the latter of which might not be great for weight loss, but they’re a whole food and it’s the only time I eat them–and they’re spread out over multiple salads during the week and occasionally I don’t even finish one recipe before I make a new one.
              Sometimes I just put an orange in the blender with other things (including seasonings….) but the vinaigrette is my favorite. Fresh dressings are so delicious!

              As to calories, I no longer count them since I learned that not eating animal products caused my weight to drop a pound a week with no effort. I figure that we shouldn’t have to do that if we’re doing things right. (?) My “splurges” are eating out which happens extremely infrequently, and going to my PlantPure Nations pod potluck once a month at which people have whole grain bread products and use maple syrup and the like in their recipes. I love my pod group; they’re a great support group! Have you been to such a group?

              1. Thanks Liisa, I like balsamic vinegar on a few things as well, but I dislike condiments like ketcup, mustard, soy sauce etc. I mention that I remain conscious of calories and how much I eat because I am not the only one … I don’t want newcomers to think (as a couple of plant docs unabashedly say) that they can eat all they want of plants. It might be true, and it might not. Vegetator’ has also remarked she remains diligent and conscious. I am very strict about what comes into this house. And I don’t eat out. I exercise a lot. With a bmi of 19, I am ok, but I watch it.

                Your group sounds wonderful. I enjoy watching the videos produced by the Vegetarian Society of Hawaii. They too have once per month dinners and guest speakers. Dr G has been featured speaker at least once. It’a great idea giving people a chance to exchange recipes, encourage one another, and learn something new.

                1. I agree with you, Barb. I eat between 800 and 1,000 calories a day to maintain an 18.6 BMI. I’m no longer interested in working out five hours a day, and running marathons and doing ultras in my 20s and 30s contributed to the arthritis I now have in my knees, so all I do is walk for exercise and occasionally will pick up a few dumbbells to do arm curls or whatever, but weight work bores the shit out of me. I live in a metro area so walking is my main mode of transportation.

                  I wish the plant based gurus would stop telling everybody to eat “as much as they want.” First off, they were never obese, so they don’t have the emotional or physiological baggage that comes with being overweight/obese. Also, a lot of old people turn to WFPB diets as a last resort because of T2, T3, HTN, CAD, vascular disease, whatever. They have a lifetime of bad eating to overcome and telling them they can “eat as much as they want” doesn’t help them regulate eating behavior even if it’s all WFPB food. I just got back from Lyon, France, and we saw very few fat people. The ones we did meet were from Amerika and the U.K. There’s a reason the French have the lowest BMIs in Europe, they don’t “eat as much as they want” and self-regulate their food intake. Yeah, they eat butter, bread, duck, beef, and yogurt, but their lifelong habits and cultural approach to food help them self-regulate.

                  A WFPB doctor telling an obese and/or old person to “eat as much as you want” isn’t sound advice.

                  1. I think that counsel comes from various studies, including Dr. Barnard and Dr. Lisle’s work.

                    But it is a very low-fat diet.

                    The concept is teaching people to use their stretch receptors. In studies, it has worked, but again, that is with a very low-fat diet.

                  2. Context is important.

                    Eating all the boiled/microwaved potatoes, cabbage and other root and leafy vegetables you want is perfectly sound advice.

                    I don’t think that they are saying “eat all the nuts, avocadoes, wholegrain bread, white rice and processed ‘vegan’ foods you want”, which I agree would be unsound.

                    1. I eat all the nuts and avocados I want and do great, but they’re pretty filling foods, it’s not like you’re gonna sit there and finish off a bag of almonds or 12 avocados.

              2. Balsamic became too sweet for me after a while. I keep it around to splash on fresh fruit when people come over and I serve dessert. I do like a good sherry vinegar with a minced shallot and a dollop of French mustard whisked in, though! Bon appetit!

                1. Thank you NoWarOnIran, sounds delicious.. I like sherry vinegar the best actually, but it’s difficult to find sometimes. And I agree with your comments that the ‘eat as much as you want’ is poor advice for all the reasons you have stated.

                  1. I agree sherry vinegar can be hard to find. I get mine at Dean & DeLuca and I also use white wine vinegar as well.

                2. It’s interesting that it became too sweet for you.
                  Thanks for the little dressing recipe, but I’m a little curious by what you mean by “French mustard.” Would you mind supplying a sample brand name?

          2. Liisa,

            Thanks for sharing.

            Listening to Dr. Fuhrman, he said that he recommends the higher fats to athletes who are struggling to get enough calories and he is more moderate in his recommendation for less active people. The 30 to 40% is supposed to be for the athlete is what he said. Dr. Fuhrman said that he never tells anyone to snack on nuts. He is closer to an ounce per day based on studies like the Adventist.

            Anyway, Dr. McDougall is the one who I felt brought it up in an appropriate manner and he conveyed proper respect and allowed Dr. Fuhrman to share from his side. I found his interview the most useful out of everybody. In contrast, I feel like Jeff is trying to destroy Dr. Fuhrman’s reputation for a mistake made years ago by a statistician and a researcher.

            I find him lacking any mercy or grace at all.

            1. Liisa,

              Is it that you don’t believe Dr. Fuhrman’s side that he really didn’t know about any of it because he was working 60 hours a week on the clinical end and it was a researcher and statistician who made errors and he said that he believed what he was told and never double-checked it because he didn’t even understand how to do the statistician’s part back then. Plus, he admitted that he talked off the top of his head saying it was 100 people in the study because he had given 100 charts, which were weaned down to the ones which qualified? That part seems fairly innocuous to me, but the fact that he made the claims as a public figure is why people get to throw stones at him.

              I don’t want to say that I don’t trust Colin, but I don’t trust the process which he is doing right now. Unless something else came up since back then, some evidence that the old thing wasn’t a mistake, then why destroy Dr. Fuhrman now? Why go on McDougall to air that he doesn’t trust Fuhrman rather than some other process?

              I don’t understand that there aren’t other processes?

              1. Deb, For me, it is not a question of “destroying” someone. For me, it’s a question of what’s right with regard to amount of fat intake from nuts, seeds, and avocados. In my mind, I have to look past or ignore the method of presentation. I’m not interested in the personalities; I want to know what the best science says. In my mind, I see some reason to distrust the studies saying nut consumption extends lives. In this regard, I look at Campbell’s recommendations because of his lifelong studies on food intake and his relatively low recommendation on percentage of fat intake. I see Esselstyn mirroring Campbell’s recommendations and even going more severe; yes, his patients were heart patients, but since most Americans die of some kind of cardiovascular disease, I think it’s wise to check his recommendations also. McDougall is also in this camp. Jeff, in looking at the nut studies, sees nut industry influence in a lot of them which makes me distrust them at the present. Fuhrman trusts them. I don’t.

                Now, on Fuhrman: Fuhrman has delicious recipes, but to my current thinking, they are very high in fat. He lists the amounts of fats in one of his later cookbooks, which I have. To my way of thinking, using fat calories is sort of like using sugar calories or oil calories–just minimally better because there’s some fiber and other nutrients in the nuts and seeds. But do all those calorie expenditures balance out what nutrients you might have gotten from a food with a lot of nutrients that has fewer calories?

                I am not in the medical or nutrition field so I have to look at what’s presented and see what seems most likely to me. As I’m writing this, I’m thinking of Chef AJ’s experience, too, anecdotal, of course, but rather interesting.

                1. Liisa >>> For me, it is not a question of “destroying” someone.
                  There is no getting around the fact that vegsouce guy dredged up an old controversy and went out of his way to attack Dr. Fuhrman personally and in an odious manner. I think there are much better places to get information from than from some attention-seeking, untrained person who calls himself a colleague of Dr. Fuhrman’s.

    2. Deb
      >>>My question for Dr Fuhrman would be, if people can’t lose weight eating nuts are those people better off being overweight nut eaters eating lots of nutrition or not.

      I think Dr. Fuhrman’s position was made quite clear in the video – he said he wants people to have a slim profile and not be overweight,and went into the reason – extra fat is inflammatory and stimulates estrogen. One tool is mild calorie restriction. The other is focusing on nutrient dense but calorie light foods, lots of nonstarchy vegetables (contrasting with Dr. McDougall), but he is not against starchy vegetables per se as long as they fit within an appropriate calorie intake total. The other tool to reach and maintain a slim profile is exercise (not addressed in the video).

      In terms of fat, he recommends a minimum of 15% of calories but as he said that does not take a lot of nuts/seeds, and said his diet recommendations in general fall into the 15-25% of calories, significantly higher ranges sometimes quoted are for athletes who burn the calories. Assuming one gets 15% of calories from a small amount of nuts/seeds, whether one can or should eat more depends completely on their specific situation (body weight, activity level, etc.). He is adamant that heart disease can be reversed with higher fat from nuts and seeds based on his clinical experience (i.e. ultra-low fat diets are sufficient for reversal but not necessary), and he wants to be conservative in his approach (higher fat content is the conservative approach). Incidentally, my wife who is a slim prediabetic eats lots of nuts and seeds as even intact starchy carbs like whole grains and sweet potatoes send her blood sugar through the roof. His diet works for her. I eat a more McDougall-style starchy diet with lots of nuts/seeds too because the carbs do not spike my blood sugar and I need the calories since I am slim and exercise a lot. Dr. Fuhrman is really quite flexible in his approach and seeks to tailor it to individual needs.

      1. Dr. Ornish’s new book “Undo It” says we only need 4% of our calories to be from fat to get the essential fatty acids. I eat about 5 grams of walnuts a day and I guess the fat from my other plant foods spikes that up a bit more. This recommendation to eat 1/4 cup of nuts a day – wow. No wonder people following those WFPB diets are getting fat.

        1. I doubt many people get fat from eating nuts/seeds on a balanced WFPB diet as long as the intake is adjusted for their personal situation. Fuhrman’s nuts/seeds recommendation needs to be understood withing his overall framework – he wants people to be slim and for those overweight slightly calorie restricted. He also wants people to eat a nutrient dense diet (which means getting enough vitamin E, minerals like zinc etc that can be low on a WFPB diet). Eating nuts/seeds helps fill those possible gaps. I have consistently maintain a BMI of 18.5-19 for many years eating tons of nuts/seeds and lots of complex carbs (I’m over 70 but exercise a lot).
          (The only time I put on extra fat was when I used to use a lot of olive oil.) I could not really eat any more intake carbs, so if I dropped the nuts/seeds, I’d become underweight. The point is that there is no one-size suits all.

          Regarding the amount of fat needed in a diet, I happen to side with Fuhrman (15% minimum, none from oils). You side with Ornish. I have no problem with that but I am very skeptical that’s healthy over the long run, and for many unnecessary. Note that both Fuhrman and Ornish (and Dr. Greger) recommend supplementing with DHA, contra McDougall and Campbell. What does this mean? It means you have to use your own best judgement based on the information available to you and your personal situation.

      2. Fuhrman’s plan is too much work for me (and likely for a lot of people). I felt like I was living to eat, rather than “eating to live.” All those salads got boring and insufferable after a while. And it’s so much work to prepare. I do better on lots of frozen veggies. Plus Fuhrman’;s diet really is for the privileged. How many people have access to salads year-round and cheaply? Novick says the studies we have document a “diminishing returns” on the micronutrient content anyway. Atter eating “five a day,” benefit starts to level off. And the healthiest populations in the world aren’t eating tons of salads.

        1. I have no doubt one can be very healthy on a WFPB diet that differs substantially from Fuhrman’s. One of McDougall’s claims is that many cannot keep eating a diet low in starchy foods. I don’t doubt that either, and as I mentioned I eat a lot of e.g. oats, barley, kasha, and sweet potatoes, and feel more energetic when I do. Yes, fresh vegetables can be expensive and frozen ones make an excellent alternative. Organic food is especially expensive and even though I can afford it often by no organic food, and do not worry about it.
          I used to live off frozen vegetables and spaghetti when working (and a salad from the cafeteria at work with lunch) and think there is nothing wrong with that (in fact some frozen foods are said to be more nutritious than some supposedly fresh ones). So you won’t get an argument from me on that. That however is separate from the issues of the benefits of nut eating, how much fat is desirable, DHA supplementation if one eats no fish, what is optimal vs. reasonably healthy, to name a few. In terms of convenience, I don’t find making salads, beans or soups in an Instant pot, or steaming some vegetables particularly onerous. I never fry or bake anything, mostly out of laziness. But I only eat to live (being a natural ascetic), having no interest in fancy recipes or any need to jazz up food to make it more palatable. I simply do not understand that need. To each, each’s own.

          1. I am still waiting to hear why the vegan woman Adventist’s died younger than the dairy and fish category, while the male vegan’s outlived all categories.

            To me, if there are nuts involved, then that would be so illuminating.

            Did the vegan woman not eat nuts because it caused weight gain? Or did they eat nuts and not lose enough weight to be protective?

            Did they eat nuts and maybe nuts doesn’t help women?

            To me, they are the category, which will tell me a lot when I find someone who looked at them.

            1. >>> Did the vegan woman not eat nuts because it caused weight gain?
              Good question, or perhaps because they **thought** it would (but would not have if done in moderation).

          2. Yeah, okay, I get you. I pretty much defer to Novick/McDougall on this, I think nuts in moderation are fine if someone is at a healthy weight, which is I believe what they recommend. Eat all you want? Maybe some people can, but a lot of people coming to these WFPB programs have lifetimes of disordered eating. I lean towards the lower side on nut portions, but that’s just me. I eat avocado a few days a week on tacos. To be honest, nuts were never part of my repertoire much as a plant based person but I added a few in daily in the past 8-10 years. (I started with Ornish when his first book came out in the early 90s.) I seem to be doing fine at least from what my doctor tells me. LOL.

            I don’t own an Instant Pot, I think they’re ugly. LOL. They sure as shit are not “ascetic.” LMAO. I do use a crock pot to make soup.

        2. NoWarOnIran,

          I am not bored, but I do agree with you about the cost. Every time I turn around I am spending $50 to $100 at the grocery stores and it just is so expensive.

          It is helping my brain and you are talking diminishing returns, but when it comes to specific things like healing your brain from Alzheimer’s, Autism, Depression, Asthma, COPD, etc. Those are dose-dependent. One of them the effective dose of vegetables was closer to 10 servings per day. If you don’t have a condition, that might not matter. If you are trying to use broccoli sprouts to reverse Autism, or clean the lungs from air pollution or to reverse blindness. etc., you might need the right doses.

      3. Gengo,

        Yes, and that is the point I am trying to make.

        I am probably eating closer to Dr. Fuhrman’s style right now, but I do not have a slim profile.

        I want to eat this way for now because I am using avocado, broccoli sprouts, beets, kale, etc. to try to help my brain and it really is working right now. I just stopped losing weight a long time ago and I already know that Dr. Lisle would say, “Stop eating nuts and avocado” and so would Dr. Barnard, but those seem to be helping me with my brain.

        In all honesty, I am not sure that I will ever get thinner than I am and it is a choice now between do I try to do lower calories, when I never, ever succeeded using lower calories. It tends to cause me to binge. Do I do lower fats? Or do I go to starches? Or do I just be grateful that I have lost some weight and not worry about weight any more.

        I feel like I am focusing on my brain and that is working so I don’t even want to think about that I wasn’t one of the people who switched to vegan, mostly whole food plant based and didn’t lose weight.

        High Carb Hannah had switched to raw vegan and gained 30 pounds and was still hungry all of the time, so I am grateful that I am not hungry. I do know that Dr. Lisle is right that some people’s stretch receptors don’t notice fat calories and I seriously do respect Dr. Fuhrman’s grasp of the science and what he said that vegans who ate nuts 5 times per week lived longer than those vegans who didn’t.

        I respect all of these men, but Dr. Fuhrman now has people counseling his patients and helping them succeed and NOW his weight loss average is close to what he had mistakenly claimed and that to me means that Jeff is dredging up something which should have been forgotten by now.

        1. What objective measures indicate your “brain” has improved? Have you had improved scores in MMSE tests? Have you had brain imaging with changes in your brain? If your BMI isn’t 18-22, I’d work on that before worrying about eating nuts 80 times a day or fluffy green kale 25 times a day. A healthy BMI has objective evidence backing it.

    1. “The person who became ill in December visited East Hawaii “and became infected by purposely eating a slug on a dare””

      Revenge of the slug….

  8. I just eat a variety of veggies, fruits, legumes, and grains and call it a day. A lot of Greger’s videos can be confusing for newbies. “This fights bile, this one won’t, isn’t as good, etc.” Just eat the veggies and other plant foods you can get your hands on based on accessibility and affordability and you’ll be fine.

    Also, there’s a class issue, in that many people don’t have access to huge varieties of produce. I eat a lot of frozen veggies just for convenience. My most frequent meal is a baked potato (often just microwaved) and some steamed frozen veggies. It’s quick, it’s easy, it’s cheap, and the food is readily available even at the bodega down the block.

    If you’re in a position to fine tune your diet this microscopically, I’d say you’re pretty privileged. Let’s make WFPB diets more globally accessible by not getting into the minutiae of it all.

    1. NWOI,
      Yes, there are important class issues involved in food distribution and availability that society needs to address, as well as the many issues involving housing and education. But that provides no excuse for trying to politicize this science-based website. And those social problems do not provide any reason not to learn about the details of the relationships among food, nutrients and health.

      1. Everything is political, including the desire to maintain alignment with the capitalist ruling class, like you’re doing here. I get it – class issues make the booj uncomfortable, no question about it.

        1. No, I don’t think you do get it. I don’t object to strong opinions per se.
          I hold a few myself, some quite politically incorrect, and they sometimes get me into trouble. I’ve been around many people over a long time (although I am not yet one of your apparently despised 90 year olds) who have idealistically ranted about US imperialism, extol communism and socialism utopias but it have no real, practical agenda to improve the world. And they seem to never consider the flip side. In short, you come across as passionate but rather naive. Other than that I suspect we actually agree on a number of fundamental issues.

          1. “…..(although I am not yet one of your apparently despised 90 year olds)”
            – – – – –

            Nor am I, gengo. :-D Am thinking he feels his mommy or granny didn’t love him, and he’s hurtin’. I guess we should feel sorry for him.

  9. NoWarOnIran and NWOI,

    There are so many issues with food, but I believe that NWOI is on the make. Learning and developing the best healthy outcomes for all through leaning is essential. We can only do that by education. NF’s is devoted to that result.

    As to the minutiae, it’s part of learning the science and there is no way to disconnect from the details. The saying “the devils in the details” is so on mark for the dietary and medical industry that I believe we need to dive deeper and keep expanding on our understanding.

    Being able to communicate the newest and most relevant findings is very much a necessity, regardless of the level of your science background. Even if it only brings ones awareness that there is so much more to the story, we have accomplished some of the recognition that most individuals lack.

    By doing wide range specific evaluations, such as NF’s videos, that info is communicated to an expanding group of concerned consumers who can pick and choose selectively or immerse themselves in the science.

    Will everyone have access to the ideal mix of foods, probably never. But making even small efforts toward a better diet have consistently shown themselves as paying large dividends.

    I encourage everyone to find their best ratio of availability, cost and desire. Keep learning, recognizing that literally daily changes in science are moving us forward. This site is an excellent media for keeping abreast of nutritional info, focused on the WFPB approach and its impact.

    Dr. Alan Kadish moderator for Dr. Greger http://www.Centerofhealth.com

    1. I think there’s a mix up. NWOI = No War on Iran. I shortened it in my reply to that person, whether on the make or not.

        1. I debated whether to call myself AbolishCapitalism, StopUSImperialism, or NoWaronIran. Which one do you think would get me the fewest complaints from pro-imperialist commenters?

            1. I too have a “statement to the world”: I recently bought a purple T-shirt with a UFO thingie on the front.

              The (white) words on the T-shirt: END THE COVER-UP. I rawther look forward to wearing it this summer. :-)

    2. Excellent attitude/advice because I frequently descend into woe thinking of all the years I spent eating bad food before I found “The China Study.”

  10. I heard that Walmart will no longer carry bags starting 2 weeks from now.

    It isn’t going to work here. People don’t even bring their own bags to the grocery stores.

    They will order Amazon.

      1. And drones may deliver our packages….
        And books are already on our phones so we don’t have to go to the library….
        And robots will hand out our Impossible Burgers from a drive-through window….(and cook it….) …and drive our car for us….

        How will our society deal with all the people who are out of work?

      2. You need to roll with the tech changes, not be scared of them. The problem isn’t the tech, the problem is the capitalist system under which they are controlled. We want tech that decreases the amount of time workers must actually work. We have the tech to eliminate many jobs. But we need it under a socialist project, not a capitalist imperialist system. Read Lenin and Marx.

        1. Ywa eeading Marx and Lenin is quite enlightening. Buy not in a good way. However, I do agree that unbridaled capitalism is toxic.

          1. There’s a reactionary in every thread.

            “Unbridaled” capitalism? So you prefer your capitalism married?

            I think you mean unbridled. And with capitalism, the definition should probably include unbridled, capitalism requires extreme brutality, violence, oppression, and exploitation just to exist. But go ahead, throw out all your myths about capitalism that you’ve bought into for the past …. looks like 70 years? LOL.

    1. I really doubt that. Nobody is going to stop using brick and mortar because *no bags.* They’ll bring their own.

    2. Costco seems to work. No one gets bags there; they do supply boxes if requested, however, and at the grocery store where I shop, I think about half (?) the people bring their own bags. I try to remember to bring my own bags in; I store them in my car trunk and when I get home, I empty them and put the bags back in my trunk–all part of my shopping experience.

      1. I don’t shop at Costco, I live in NYC. I might check out the one on 117th, though. Are they carrying smaller packages of stuff for us urban dwellers? Every time I’ve ever been in a Costco (CA, WA), you can’t buy anything smaller than the size of a car. I don’t need 20 gallons of ketchup or a 55-gallon drum of spinach. LOL.

        1. That’s pretty funny! I don’t know about the Costco in NYC, but I can tell you that there’s a membership fee to join. Also, there are certain things I buy there that make it worth my time, but yes, things are sold in larger sizes at my Costco. I stock up on things that I can use a bit at a time and not have those things go bad.

  11. This Video made my night. Greger in the Kitchen. What a Riot especially the exercises in between blending. I wondered if we might see a Moose walk past the patio door ? Guess not.

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