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How to Treat Infant Colic

Colic, characterized by prolonged periods of inconsolable crying, affects up to 40 percent of young infants. The condition is often dismissed as trivial by the medical profession, but should be treated seriously, as I discuss in my video, Treating Infant Colic by Changing Mom’s Diet. It can contribute to postpartum depression, interfere with breastfeeding, and even lead to the death of the infant at the hands of a parent from shaken baby syndrome.

They’re not just crybabies. Colic is pain.

The medical profession has a scandalous history, not just denying pain relief to infants, but routinely performing surgery on infants with minimal or no anesthesia into the 1980s. One famous case in 1985 was little Jeffrey Lawson, who underwent open heart surgery fully awake and conscious. He had been given a drug to paralyze him so he wouldn’t squirm, but, like in a horror movie, the baby couldn’t move yet could feel everything. This wasn’t some rogue surgeon. Torturing babies was standard operating procedure in the 80s. Not the 1880s, mind you, but the 1980s.

“The liaison between the [American Academy of Pediatrics] AAP and the Society of Anesthesiologists commented that the use of paralyzing agents was a standard and time-honored technique…” The profession has a history of infant pain denial. They didn’t even think babies could feel pain. Even today, most physicians don’t use painkillers or even local anesthesia for circumcisions, a procedure so traumatic the babies show stronger pain responses to vaccinations even months later.

The pain of colic is thought to be caused by gastrointestinal discomfort, like intestinal cramping. In my Peppermint Oil for Irritable Bowel Syndrome and What to Take Before a Colonoscopy videos, I explored the role of peppermint oil in reducing intestinal spasms. Might it help with colic? A few drops of a peppermint leaf solution appeared to cut in half the number of colicky episodes and reduced daily crying from three hours to two hours, working just as well as simethicone, a leading over-the-counter drug for colic. The problem is that simethicone has been shown to have no benefit for colic. So, saying peppermint is as good as something shown to be useless isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement. And the American Academy of Pediatrics warns about the use of peppermint oil in infants.

One study found an herbal tea preparation to be helpful, but parents have been cautioned not to use it. Not only might tea interfere with breastfeeding continuity, but there is a lack of adequate industry regulation. For example, star anise tea is commonly used for colic. Chinese star anise is regarded as safe and nontoxic, but Japanese star anise is poisonous. They look identical, but Japanese star anise contains a potent neurotoxin, and it has been found contaminating star anise tea in the United States. So, we shouldn’t give it to kids.

There is even a report of toxicity from a supposed homeopathic dose of belladonna, also known as deadly nightshade, that evidently wasn’t homeopathic enough. Another report found the same. Just because it’s homeopathic doesn’t necessarily mean it’s safe.

It’s no better when doctors prescribe it, though. The drugs used for colic are made from belladonna, too. The drugs may work, but they should not be used because of their serious side effects.

What about just good old fashioned burping? After all, “[b]urping after feeding is commonly advised by paediatricians, nurses and parenting websites to promote expulsion of gases that accumulate during feeding with aim of decreasing discomfort and crying episodes.” Scientific evidence for the efficacy of burping was lacking until a 2014 randomized controlled trial for the prevention of colic and regurgitation (also known as spitting up) in healthy infants. What did they find? Burping is useless for colic and made the regurgitation worse. Burped babies spit up twice as many times as unburped babies!

So, what’s an effective treatment? The elimination of cow’s milk protein, since colic appears be some sort of allergic response. Decades ago, it was shown that infants fed cow’s milk developed antibody responses to the bovine proteins, which may explain why colic can improve after changing from a cow’s milk formula to either a hypoallergenic hydrolyzed protein formula or a soy-based formula.

Breast-fed infants have similar rates of colic as formula-fed infants, but that might be because breast milk from cow’s-milk-drinking mothers contains cow’s milk proteins. We know cow’s milk proteins can pass through breast milk and cause certain serious allergic reactions, but what about colic? Based on studies of formula-fed infants, colic was already a well-known symptom of intolerance to cow’s-milk protein back in the 1970s. So, thinking colic in breast-fed infants may be caused by cow’s-milk proteins transmitted from mother to infant via breast milk, researchers tried a dairy-free diet for breast-feeding mothers whose infants had colic. Of 19 infants, the colic disappeared promptly from 13 babies, and they were able to show they could bring back the colic in 12 of those 13 by challenging the mothers with a little dairy. For example, a baby boy develops colic that almost completely disappears within a day of his mom eliminating cow’s milk, and then the colic promptly comes back when mom goes back on dairy. The researchers conclude that the treatment for infantile colic in breast-fed infants is a diet free of cows’ milk for the mother—a recommendation that continues to this day.

Isn’t that horrifying about little Jeffrey Lawson’s open heart surgery? I’ve grown more and more cynical over the years, but it still shocks me how terribly wrong the medical profession can be in the face of overwhelming evidence and basic common sense. Now that more women are becoming physicians and graduating medical school classes are approximately 50:50 women and men, hopefully things will change for the better.

More on dairy in infancy and childhood:

More on healthy pregnancies:

In health,
Michael Greger, M.D.

PS: If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my free videos here and watch my live, year-in-review presentations:


Michael Greger M.D., FACLM

Michael Greger, M.D. FACLM, is a physician, New York Times bestselling author, and internationally recognized professional speaker on a number of important public health issues. Dr. Greger has lectured at the Conference on World Affairs, the National Institutes of Health, and the International Bird Flu Summit, testified before Congress, appeared on The Dr. Oz Show and The Colbert Report, and was invited as an expert witness in defense of Oprah Winfrey at the infamous "meat defamation" trial.

109 responses to “How to Treat Infant Colic

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  1. I do have a question about the use of herbal tea for colic. When I checked the source given in the article, it said that the use of the tea had a 57 % success rate in 33 colicky infants vs 23 % placebo. It does not state what herb preparation was used in the abstract. Does anyone know ?

    I have heard that carom (ajwain, caraway) can give pain relief for colic/indigestion in any age group. Boiling 2 tsp seeds in 500 ml water for 5 min. then strain. Put in very clean container and refridgerate. Give a couple of spoonfuls of the liquid to the infant.

    As a side note, I have a hard time believing that a person bright enough to get through medical school can be stuck on stupid regarding infant pain. I also find it hard to believe that doctors, nursing staff etc stood by or worse, participated in the heart surgery of that child… or that the parents consented. I will read up on it.

    Thank you Dr Greger for yet another very interesting article !

      1. Wow, Steve, that is an excellent article!

        I come from such an anti-authoritative family and from an anti-authoritative generation that I never understood why doctors and psychiatrists are what I perceived as cold-hearted, mean-spirited, controlling, always right, never admitting that they did something wrong, and not at all flexible or open to naturalistic or holistic concepts to the point of mocking patients. Control was always the obvious answer, but this article really verified what I have seen over and over again firsthand.

        Going back to Dr. Greger saying 50:50 males to females and that doesn’t even interest me as a woman, because I stood in a hospital room with 10 angry doctors who wanted me to kill my grandmother faster, because she would eventually get pneumonia again, so they wanted me to pre-put her out of her misery and that whole room was made up of authoritative women. There was one male and he was the first one to use the word “kill” but the women were bossier and said sentences like, “I am not going to listen to your grandmother or to you because she has dementia and doesn’t know what she wants….” If the Visiting Nurses hadn’t intervened in an equally authoritative way, they would have killed my grandmother without my permission, because I am not authoritative enough. Instead, I got to bring her home and have 3 and a half months of a nonstop glorious Christmas celebration.

        Authoritative know-it-alls are the opposite of what I want and it will have to be people get into the medical schools who fight against that and that could be a woman or a man.

        I say it because I used to think that I could find a female doctor and that would make me more comfortable, but the men I went to when I was young were sweethearts and the women were high-powered aggressive people and I am not comfortable with that culture.

        1. Deb 10 weeks — I’m glad that you read the article, especially with your experience with your grandmother. The fact that both items were published on-line (and I read them within minutes of each other) was so serendipitous that I had to mention it to the NutritionFacts community.

          And your experience, with your grandmother, is not dissimilar to those of many other readers, I’m certain. There is a good reason for humor such as “What’s the difference between God and a doctor? God doesn’t think that s/he’s a doctor.”

      2. Thank you for the link Steve – interesting article. Just to clarify my comment above.. I believe what Dr Greger wrote in his article.. I just found it unfathomable. I am just so shocked (and sickened) that human beings who are in positions of trust can act in such a callous inhumane way whether it concerns a hamster in the lab, a newborn, or elderly person dependent on their care.
        I was hospitalized for surgery as a child in a reknowned children’s hospital decades ago. The abuses I suffered , and witnessed,there has stayed vividly in my memory since. Perhaps that is why I am so grateful to Dr Greger for giving us real tools and encouragement to take responsibility for our own health.

        1. Barb said, “I was hospitalized for surgery as a child in a reknowned children’s hospital decades ago. The abuses I suffered , and witnessed,there has stayed vividly in my memory since.”

          Even the mainstream media is starting to report on pedophilia, child abuse, and human trafficking. But that’s another pathetic subject……

    1. A quarter teaspoon of cool or warm chamomile tea works for babies to alleviate colic pain. Gas comes out through farting and belching.

      How to Make Chamomile tea:
      Boil water
      Put 1 teabag in a cup, pour boiling water and wait until lukewarm.
      Give baby a quarter teaspoon.

    2. Dr. G,

      Just so you know, there is also a neurological component to colic when the T5 vertebrae is subluxated and compresses on the T5 nerve that innervates the stomach. I have adjusted babies with colic, felt the subtle little “click” of an adjustment and watched as the baby relaxes and the symptoms of colic disappear.

      1. As I’m sure you’re aware, this effect could only be determined to be a fact if proven in a double blind clinical trial which is actually doable considering that the patient would not necessarily know the nature of your “adjustment” and neither would an independent clinician doing the evaluation post-treatment. If there is any actual evidence of what you speak of, besides your anecdotal experience, we’d like to read about it in a peer-reviewed, published, article. There are endless examples of clinicians “judgment” and “experience” that turned out to be very wrong which is why this site focuses on real high quality evidence.

        Dr. Ben

        1. Preach it, Volunteer Ben! Too bad these forums have so many regular commenters that, whether directly or by strong implication, endorse what lacks good quality, scientific evidence. I am fortunately getting to know what I consider regular s**tposters here and can simply choose to skip over them. I am also slowly learning that it may be futile to try to engage them. After all, if they aren’t grounded in science to begin with, they probably aren’t going to be moved by any rational argument. My bigger concern actually is that readers might be harmed by their unsubstantiated beliefs. Perhaps there is no good answer for that. Maybe calling them out helps, but that is quite a tedious undertaking with the volume of quackery that gets espoused around here. The really astounding part of this is that so many of these tin foil hat jobs act as if their thinking is aligned with Dr. Greger’s and his with theirs. Is that because nutrition is wrongly considered fringe in mainstream medical science? Is it because plant-based diets are wrongly considered fringe in mainstream nutritional science? Is it because nutritional science is so young? In some defense of this apparent chiropractor, I don’t think he went there. Some of the regulars here, though—WOW! They go on as if they are right at home here and I find that incredible.

      2. Thirty five years ago I struggled (for four long months) with a screaming, colicky breast fed baby whose symptoms definitely worsened towards evening. We rocked her nightly and I massaged her belly with some success. Her pediatrician suggested we buy a baby swing but had few other recommendations. Then, thankfully, a friend told me her friend recently went off dairy products and her baby’s colic disappeared. I tried it. It worked! Within a few days our baby girl was smiling and out of pain. I lost weight, she lost her colic. What a blessing!

    1. Yes, read my comment posted below. I started soy formula on a Saturday morning & that evening was the first night my son did not have colic (he was six weeks old at the time). I didn’t kearn until he was in his teen years that Cow milk is not meant for human consumption.

  2. OMG! My son had colic. I did not breastfeed but discovered that it was the cows milk formula that caused his colic when I switched to a soy milk formula on a Saturday morning & that evening his colic was gone. He was six weeks old. He ate dairy when he got older. In his teenage years he devolped acne. On his own, he eliminated dairy & his acne completely disappeared. I’m became a believer that dairy does not belong in the human diet.

  3. My baby had colic and it was a 100-day nightmare. For three months he seemed to do nothing but cry in pain. The only remedy that relieved him was when we lay him on top of the warm rumbling dryer. I’m vegan so wasn’t drinking milk. I tried eliminating all cruciferous veggies but don’t recall that working very well. All the books told me it would subside at three months, which felt like an eternity, but it really did go away eventually. Suddenly I had a smiling happy baby instead of one I sometimes wanted to throw out the window (not that I’d actually do that obviously). But I was so sleep-deprived and such a sad wreck by that time that I decided never to have another baby. He’s now 15, has no siblings, and never cries (not in front of me anyway). I’m an author and actually wrote a memoir that delves into this topic.

  4. Equal representation of women graduating from medical school (and all other fields) certainly is nothing but good. However, for those who don’t go into business for themselves, I have serious doubts about equal pay. Gender discrimination is sadly alive and well. The pace of progress is too often excruciatingly slow. Thank you for being part of the solution, Dr. Greger.

  5. Missed a great opportunity to discuss the role of chiropractic care in the management of colic. Please review. The evidence has good support and it is safe.

      1. Not sure why this would be thought of as a hoax. I am a chiropractic nutritionist and we treat babies daily for colic. We eliminate dairy from mom’s diet, encourage people to continue breastfeeding, and provide chiropractic manipulative therapy. It absolutely affects the nervous tissue and babies respond wonderfully. We have parents that come in that second visit and are so thankful and as a mom I understand what a relief it is to know your child isn’t having as much discomfort. Babies are obviously in various positions in utero that can affect the nerves as well as the traumatic experience that birth can be. My son broke his clavicle during birth. Chiropractic care along with the elimination of dairy works for most of our patients.

  6. I am absolutely stunned and horrified about the open heart surgery case. That’s an image I’m not going to get out of my head or my heart anytime soon. So sad.

  7. I am horrified to learn about the infant having open heart surgery with no anesthesia. Who is crazy enough to think that infants do not feel pain? This is torture! And circumcisions performed the same way? How can this practice be allowed by any civilized society? This needs to be publicized widely and people need to be aware. As a therapist who understands that all early experiences leave an imprint, subconsciously, on the psyche and affects one’s ability to tolerate stress, manage emotions, and have reasonably good mental health, creating such stresses early in life can only have detrimental effects.
    For more info about the effect of stress on fetuses, see the film, In Utero.

        1. I put it there because part of the footage is of Koko’s friend being asked about his mother and he talked with emotion about his mother being cut during the poaching, which had led to his captivity.

          He remembered his early childhood. That would be the ad I would have if I was doing animal rights. Him still being emotionally affected by his mother being killed shows how deeply animals feel.

          My dog is an empath.

          When my grandmother was alive, he would leave the room when she was changing, because she felt uncomfortable, then he would come back in when she was done.

    1. Circumcisions are always torture even with pain meds if they do did that.
      Maiming a child and who knows the possible psychological imprint of that…your most trusted ones your family butchering your private parts. Only our society says it is acceptable it is heinous child abuse always now outlawed in one EU state.

      What debased corrupted evil things are people at times.

      1. Sorry not outlawed.considered for being deemed such. Sweden does require a pain remediation with the procedure. Considered antisemetic by some that requirement.

        Want to look for evidence of humans as being barbaric idiots…there it is…. male or female circumcision. And they we wonder why so many of us have mental problems later in life, as if this was just not at all a thing in some aspect remembered though not in words.

  8. Back in 1959, I was the colicky baby – and while I don’t remember it personally, the level of colic became the stuff of family legend. I was breastfed, but by a mother who loved dairy foods. As an adult, I learned that I was lactose-intolerant and then eventually that I am allergic to casein. I’ve had gut issues all my life – IBS, then Crohn’s. I learned to control them starting in my 30’s through diet (first pesco and egg plus vegetarian, eventually vegan). Through uploading my 23andMe file to another service, I discovered that I am genetically inclined toward lactose-intolerance and that I am a non-secretor (gut biome). I have a nice handful of genes that predispose me to Crohn’s, IBD, and IBS. I don’t know if those markers are significant for colic, but it makes me wonder if we could identify babies who are likely to colic ahead of time and save everyone a lot of pain and stress. If someone had taken my gut issues seriously as a baby, maybe I wouldn’t have had to spend 40 years figuring out how to peacefully co-exist with my gut.

    1. I am hoping that many families will have peaceful night’s rest by the revelation that milk causes it.

      I still haven’t done the 23andme test. I have pondered it.

      I think I am afraid that I will get an opposite of the placebo effect.

      WebMD symptom checker is enough to cause that.

      I think if I had started looking at genes, I wouldn’t have found nutritional solutions, I just would have had a sense of “destiny” about it all. I say that because the people around me who have diagnoses don’t end up in a nutritional direction. It is as if they get in a mental cable car, which takes them in a direction away from learning about dietary solutions.

      1. I can use gluten or nightshades as examples of “mass hysteria anti-placebo effect” (Hysteria might be too strong a word, but I can’t think of another one.

        The people around me all became allergic to gluten and nightshades and now one by one some of them aren’t allergic anymore. It is things like the blood type diet and the plant paradox and other on-line teachings which caused them to become allergic versus starting with symptoms and trying to figure it out.

        I am glad that diet trumps genetics most of the time.

        1. My birth family is getting irate because I continue to avoid gluten. The fact that my psoriatic arthritis went away within a month of GF and my psoriasis after a year is apparently not as valuable as being able to feed me cake and bread. I struggled with near disability for decades before a PA at the rheumatogist’s office suggested that I try GF for a month. I thought it was silly and trendy, but I did it 100%. Darned if it didn’t work on this skeptic. I am not a genetic celiac. Careful with the judgment. Some people are indeed being greatly harmed by gluten.

      2. Interesting, I came to the opposite conclusion and response to my genetic testing. It inspired me to strictly follow a healthy plant only diet and made me drop all the exceptions I was making. It gave me good guidance for individualizing my diet. To me, genetic testing was information, not destiny. In fact, the opposite of a sense of destiny. I have some troublesome genes if I allow them to be triggered. I feel completely empowered by knowing what I know and following the lifestyle that will keep me healthy. Granted, I did need to wade through all the crazy high fat low lectin stuff out there, but I am accustomed to reading scientific papers critically (and following the footnotes), so it wasn’t hard to conclude that whole foods all plants was where to stay. It’s been a stress reliever. I know what I’m dealing with, and that I’m dealing with it, so I can set all of it aside and live.

  9. I was a neonatal intensive care nurse in the mid 80s. One day I followed a patient of mine into surgery to watch the surgeon remove some diseased colon. I watched in horror as the surgeon, who I knew well, cut into the abdomen and remove the colon section without an anesthesia. I questioned him afterward. He told me (as they said often in those days) they don’t remember. I said…”who cares if they don’t remember, they feel it now. That is wrong. Truly wrong.” We also rarely gave them pain medication because as one older nurses told me “we had a problem one when a baby stopped breathing.” I replied, “But this baby is on a ventilator.” She just shrugged. I left that hospital after a year and went to a different NICU. In that place, all neonates received anesthesia and pain meds when needed.

    1. Cynthia,

      I even challenge the concept of them not remembering.

      I clearly remember things from my first year and my brother injured his hand at that age and he remembers the hospital visits.

    2. Just me I am certain. Consider pain as a necessary part of life not to be avoided. Refuse pain meds topical whatever whenever possible if docs allow it and always with dentists. They must allow my preference no monopoly of care do they hold.

      Why this american obsession with pain avoidance I simply cannot understand. A chronic pain I suppose perhaps but a procedure…it is done for good purpose why the aversion to the pain?
      Pain to a child a infant for no good reason or religious reason…circumcision….I can see firmly not working for a place that did that, child abuse always.

      But now we have in America the most amount of drug overdose deaths ever and now exceeding in the young even that of car accidents for the first time ever…..
      Pain it is but a sensation telling us to avoid. Why the obsession with that? It is usefull has purpose.

      1. Drug overdose deaths exceeding car accidents is tragic.

        Yes, we are addicted to The Pleasure Trap and also to the Avoid Pain Trap.

        And some people to the feel powerful when they cause pain trap.

        1. The fact that they have to do “rationalizing” sentences such as saying “The children don’t feel pain” or “They don’t remember pain” as the logic for doing those processes means the system has to re-examine starting at the true data.

          They do feel pain. They do sometimes remember.

          My mother was in a coma for 7 days and when she came out of it, she said that the nurses in the hospital weren’t nice people. That was her first sentence.

            1. Well for three we stop supporting religions that include circumcision as a part and parcel of the way they do business. We stop buying things that animal test and of course become mostly vegan in diet.


              1. Laughing, yeah, well I am a Christian and between that and growing up learning about the Holocaust, I ended up loving the Jewish community. I have a lifelong friend who is Jewish and I have a cousin who converted to Judaism for his wife and they both had sons, but one didn’t have their son until they moved to Israel and one had their son when I was living in California, so I missed those events and didn’t have sons myself, so it probably won’t ever be an issue for me and I don’t have a “ban” anyone personality, but I did become a vegetarian as a young person and now I am a vegan and I do have the personality to forward videos on topics.

                1. There is nothing I state nor believe to say a people are bad or worse than any others.
                  In fact to my opinion Jewry has the most fascinating of peoples with by far the most representative of accomplishment. Trotsky was one as well as Einstein and there are thousands of others.

                  The religion..which is the foundation for all three of the Abraham religions …is a total failure and product of a madman or the product of a evil demon who inspired it.

                  Think to the mention….. as mandatory the scarring of ones most precious obligation..your child to be maimed and disfigured for belief in this evil demon……?

                  What else could it be but demon this thing?

                  Reading through that thing years ago found the description of David I think it was, conquering a enemy and then going to the dead of the enemy and circumcising them……what would one say if one arbitrarily came upon that…this person or peoples are quite mad, assuredly and finally completely mad. They may do this or that great things good things but they are in the end still mad.

                  Come join the human race I say to those devote followers. It is not you are different or worse than us but taught things in a different way…things can be relearnt. When you abuse children it is time to do that.

                  1. I do not believe in abusing children.

                    I do believe in God and do consider the Torah and the Bible books from a supernatural origin, where the symbolic, numerical and greater mathematical structure are greater than can be duplicated with millions of our strongest supercomputers and where many lines of text were written before events happened. There may even be many levels of symbolism encoded in it. There are places in the Torah where every tree in the Bible is encoded in equidistant letter format around the one verse. There are macro codes and so many layers of codes and the pure math and symbolism are so beautiful. Removing even one letter of passages would destroy the structure. Removing a whole word would remove the symbolism of how many times something is used in the whole text. I do not claim to understand even the written text. People argue it, just as fervently as they argue science and nutrition.

                    That being said, I am confident of this: that people misuse writings from those books more than any other book and I am against misusing scripture but probably have done it.

                    1. Well I do believe in God as well. But my opinion is this god the one you all worship is in fact a demon.
                      Who else would order such things?
                      Who ordered the Passover which reinforced slavery not abolished it.
                      Why the south so fervently religious back in that day as they are today….as it was found there slavery so allowed.

                      So a demon started this. Want to stop child abuse which is the cause of so many or our psychological ills start with stopping the abuse of children most conspicuously present by mutilating their sexual organ.

                      What god could require that? Till we look at that all manners of evil will descend upon us. We have no words at that age but that does not mean it is not known of and remembered. Our most precious ones our parents mutilated us caused us the most extreme pain ever felt…..of course it has consequence. All bad. This overreaction to pain response in our society it may be as well a response to that lack of trust, that lost, not the pain.
                      Of course you then attempt use of insulation from the reality of things..drugs.

                      So I will have no part of it nor avoid pain. It is part of living.

                    2. Why this trend towards isolation, gated communities bigger walls stronger borders stronger nations to protect citizens…..well it is all about trust.

                      We lost our trust as infants and thus serve to replicate a place where trust cannot be violated, a safe place. We equate great pain with loss of trust.
                      How better to form a lack of trust, cut off a piece of ones privates.
                      So we over focus on the pain and removing ourselves of any occurance of that becomes our obsession.

                      So in the end we also become drug abusers and inclined to replicate this abuse which extends to infants children and or anyone who is considered inferior by strength to us….it being not just coincidence where we find most this thing of abuse if often in religious circles.

                      And why isolation becomes always the thing..with money it is our thing always, to disengage remove. And to take then as well the drugs to remove the inner pain which is not pain really but loss of trust.
                      Very ingenious is this demon I agree with you very complex and well thought his plan. We are slaves to him which is his desire.

                      Love unconditional love involves not cutting off a piece of your sons privates. Not a bit. We know these things internally but cannot make this admitted to ourselves. So we suffer the consequence. Which extend far beyond the act itself

    1. Lactose and Casein are two of the things which cause problems.

      Goat’s milk still does have lactose and casein but it has less than Cow’s milk.

    2. Just antidotal and way way back in the day before I became mostly vegan….goats milk was recommended by our doc and it seemed to work quite well.
      Most all native americans are lactose intolerant my children were and are as most of color.
      Don’t know if any science supports it however it appears in a anthropological sense natives are exposed to goats milk as they had goats and not cattle in the Americas way back in that day for thousands of years.
      Cattle were introduced by the Spanish and goats were native to the Americas.

      1. It is my understanding that goats are not native to the Americas.

        The Rocky Muntain Goat is but, despite the name, it isn’t actually a goat.

        1. Yes TG that is correct. To explain it a bit, goats and sheep are in the same family. while goats did not exist, sheep certainly did, were common and were as well a part of the diet certainly.

          Just venturing a perhaps as I don’t know, nor think there is science on it. Did natives adapt to the eating of sheep and sheep milk(and then as a result goat exposure as they are in the same family) so they were not intolerant of their milk?
          Seems the thing of lactose intolerance with dairy follows a bit who did or did not have exposure anthropologically to their milk over time. Though it is often hard to identify exactly the when and lineage as to genetic tendency. Some peoples ate cattle as hunted things and some domesticated them. Natives in America for instance had plenty of cattle after the Spanish invasion, they were able to thrive live in the place, but never thought to domesticate them. Europeans did for thousands of years.

          Goats and sheep can breed. It seems to be like the relationship of mule to horse, different but much the same in many ways and able to breed with unfertile offspring.

          I do not personally know if natives domesticated sheep but the Navajo for one seem to have that pretty engrained in their culture at the present time. Did they once have them anthropologically in context……I just don’t know. Seems so engrained they appear to have things which would appear to predate the Spanish. Sheep are sort of like family to them.

          But Navajo are a recent native addition to the Americas being the last to migrate perhaps a 600 or a thousand or so years ago so perhaps it is a carryover from their Manchurian heritage….

          1. Thanks Ron but the Spanish were also famous for raising sheep (for example Merinos). I thought that the first sheep were brought to the Americas by Columbus

            The Plains tribes picked up horse riding and keeping from the Spanish very quickly. It wouldn’t surprise me if other tribes picked the practice of sheepherding from the Spanish too.

            1. The first domesticated sheep were brought by the Spanish.
              Sheep in America as native, were the bighorn and thin horn sheep. The thin horn are divided into two subspecies.

              Bighorn used to be very common and one tribe was known to basically live off of them. They had a name that indicated that. A tribe around Yellowstone no longer in existence.
              So close was the relationship that they actually were named for them may suggest some form of domestication, but that is conjecture.

              Big horn are still in New Mexico though they are allowed only the high country.
              The Navajo did adopt the charro a Spanish domestic.
              I have been around big horns in the high country where there are no people and I am certain they would be able to be domesticated. I had a herd of about 30 I met on a trail. I gave them a wide berth but in a little while when I returned to camp, they visited and mimicked my actions. I sat down they sat down. I pretended to sleep they went to sleep.
              Certainly with very little effort they could be.
              There used to be millions they say. Most eliminated by loss of range and disease brought by the colonialists.
              I found what seems to be a marker tree on a trail in the forest I jog on. Those are only thought to be present in the north central, yet it seems to be here. A very old dead for a 100 years tree, probably 500 or more years old. The trees were bent by natives by a special process, making it grow in a certain way to mark a trail. I mention this as there is much not known about native life in the Americas. The only reason we really know of the marker trees at all is because one tribe who used to do that, the elders still retain that knowledge and are still living .

              Point being I would not rule out domestication of sheep at some point in a distant past by natives.
              So much is unknown. Keep in mind natives have been here for probably 20 or 30 thousand years. In that time I would guess someone would have replicated my experience.

              1. In my specific area, what is called the Sandia man cave, has evidence of habitation 9,000 to 11,000 years ago. But the actual date of initial habitation by human is a bit up in the air. A abandoned pueblo I visit almost daily, is at least 700 years old habituated far earlier than that and abandoned about 1400 or so, and they really do not know much about them.

                So who knows?.

              2. Thanks Ron.

                I had never heard of them being domesticated which is why I assumed sheepherding might have been picked up from the Spanish …. but, as you say, who knows for sure?

  10. My daughter has just recently given birth, 5 weeks ago and breast feeding our grandson. She doesn’t have cows milk at all but almond or rice milk but still baby gets quite a lot of colic. So I personally couldnt agree with your article on treating colic.

    1. Yes, there were a few people who were exceptions even in the study.

      Does she get any hidden dairy? Cheeses anywhere?

      I ask the question because I have had a few times when I was accidentally getting real cheese and didn’t know it.

    2. To add I have no authority in this at all but back in the day…they said that a mother who consumed large amounts of gas producing beans would pass that on to their children through the breast milk at times.

      Seems impossible but I know with a child with that thing most any thing would be tried.

  11. Just remembered that this is a dairy post.

    I was contacted tonight by a dear friend who sent me a Chris Beat Cancer link, because she wanted to help me with my dog who has Cancer and he is into raw milk and he was doing raw fruit and vegetables last time I went through his footage and my friend’s friend is the one with Cancer and I am saying, “Don’t eat dairy” and found one woman healed of breast cancer just from that and he is saying, “Drink raw milk” and I looked it up on PubMed and found them studying the number of people who got sick from raw milk in Serbia. I honestly have found a lot of his resources inspiring, but I didn’t see studies on raw milk curing Cancer and he is so popular. I don’t understand the whole Weston Price thing or whoever he is. Tom, if you ever read this comment, I could use some help understanding that so I can figure out how to explain things to the people around me who have cancer.

    1. Deb

      All I can say is that there is a big market of people who want to be told that there is a quick, easy and cheap way to beat cancer. There is no shortage of snake-oil merchants and opinionated bloggers who are happy to cater to that market by selling books, DVDs, supplements and other services to it.

      Also, being human, we all love exciting stories where the evil villain (cancer, Big Pharma etc) is soundly defeated by the valiant hero with his/her magic sword. This is why Chris beats cancer is so popular – lots of inspiring stories about people beating cancer through determinedly adopting some magical alternative health approach. It is all testimonials and very shakey reasoning.

      Testimnials can’t be trusted. Much of the time thepersons making them also have conventional treatment but choose to ascribe their surival to the alternative treatment they also followed. Then there is survivorship bias ……….

      Also, as I have said before, if you get 1,000 people trying a particular alternative health ‘cure’ and 5 of them survive, you can be sure of two things
      1. testimonials for the alternative treatment from the 5 survivors will be plastered all over the internet and YouTube
      2. nothing will ever be heard of the other 995

      I think the best thing you can do is print off summaries of the studies showing that people who refuse conventional cancer treatment (CCT) and opt for alternative medicine (AM) ‘cures’ have much higher death rates than those who don’t eg

      ‘Cancer patients who initially chose alternative medicine therapies as the sole treatment for their cancers were more than twice as likely to die compared with patients who chose to undergo conventional cancer treatment, a US study has found.1 The study was published by JNCI: Journal of the National Cancer Institute.’

      ‘Patients who initially chose AM for treatment of curable cancer in lieu of CCT were rare and had statistically significantly worse survival. After controlling for sociodemographic and clinical factors, the magnitude of difference was largest for breast cancer because women who used AM as initial treatment without CCT had more than a fivefold increased risk of death. Patients with colorectal and lung cancer had a more than fourfold and twofold increase in risk of death, respectively. ‘

      What does help actually help?
      Our meta-analysis supports that current physical activity recommendations from WHO reduce cancer mortality in both the general population and cancer survivors. We infer that physical activity after a cancer diagnosis may result in significant protection among cancer survivors.’

      ‘ Healthy weight control with an emphasis on exercise to preserve or increase lean muscle mass and a diet that includes nutrient-rich vegetables can be recommended. Diets that have adequate vegetables, fruit, whole grains, and low-fat dairy foods and that are low in saturated fat may help to lower overall disease risk in this population.’

      1. Tom,

        These people are doing medical cancer treatments, but they are trying to also utilize nutritional concepts to try to optimize their healing.

        They have conditions, which very few people survive either with medical or without.

        If you look up Pancreatic Cancer on PubMed, you will only find a few examples of people being healed from any of the treatments. I have a relative who is still alive, and it has been a while since they went through the Whipple surgery and other treatments.

        But when you look at who heals, they will often also have added in either dietary changes or supplements or certain combinations of chemo. Still, it is three people got healed with this combination of chemo. A few people got healed adding in a certain supplement. Some hospitals had better results reversing the order and starting with chemo, then radiation, then the Whipple.

        Chris has some people who survived and honestly when you are dealing with a proverbial “Hail Mary” one shot at it, it feels more like hiking Mt. Everest and like you are looking at the pile of bodies over there and studying how people succeeded over here because that is the only shot you have.

        I just pondered that Weston Price or whatever his name is. You spoke about him and wondered what you know about him.

        1. Deb

          Yes, an old school friend of mine died of pancreatic cancer last year, However, there are different types of pancreatic cancer and some are swifter acting than others. If you catch it early, it can be cured though I understand

          The problem is that people do heal. However, simply because they also did this or ate that, doesn’t mean that what they did or ate was responsible for the healing. It may have been the conventional treatment, it may have been the placebo effect, it may have been a spontaneous remission or it may indeed have been what they did or ate. But nobody knows for sure.

          That doesn’t stop people cofidently asserting that it was the eg B17/amygdlin/laetrile in the apricot kerenels they ate that cured them. Even though there is virtually no B17/amygdlin/laetrile in the sweet apricot kernels they ate. And what about all the other people who tried the same things but didn’t make it?

          What does the evidence show? That’s what I would wantt o know.

          For combinations of chemo, adding cisplatin to standard drug treatment appears to help significantly

          I am not sure about other things but high doses of vitamin C, fasting and extreme cholesterol lowering (via eg statins) might help

          As for Weston Price, he was an American dentist who travelled widely nd published a biook which basically argued that eating natural whole foods is associated with better dental and overall health while eating processed foods is associate with worse health. No probems there.

          However, a couple ladies appropriated his name after his death to set up a business called the Weston Price Foundation. It promotes a meat heavy diet with lots of butter and raw milk – if it’s a traditional food it must be healthy seems to be the basic reasoning.

          John Robbins wrote a peice on this almost 10 years ago now

          1. Just thought I may add TG…I had a friend from back in the day that suffered from pancreatic cancer at a young age, late 50’s. His brother died of the same malady at about the same age with no overt risk factors. It is assumed by some there is a genetic component to its presence in some circumstances.
            They established within his will a grouping to study the issue to my dim recollection, though I am not current on it.
            There seems to be some substance to it. He preceeded in death his mother, so he was not from a short lived peoples. I guessed his father died of the same but am not certain.

            1. Ron,

              My mother died of Cancer about the same age her father had died of Cancer.

              My father’s mother died of Cancer about the same age her father had died of Cancer.
              Her case though, was that she stopped eating the minute she found out about it and died that way, rather than go through what she saw her father go through.

          2. Thanks Tom!

            Sorry to hear about your friend. I suspected that your life was touched by the disease.
            Mine has been touched by it, too. More than three times, but a few of them were biggies.

            Yes, it is the foundation, which is confusing to me.

            The whole raw milk and butter and meat. I have a friend who seems to be doing it.

            And another friend sent me Chris Beat Cancer link with the raw milk. I didn’t understand it and don’t believe that raw milk was in his testimony of what he did while trying to get over cancer. Not what I saw anyway.

            It just confused the issue, because, in my life, there are two people who have Pancreatic Cancer and one who has Lung Cancer and one who has Leukemia, plus Prostate Cancer, which metastasized to his bones, plus another person who has a slow-growing Cancer and both my Step-Mother and Sister-in-Law had the Stage 0 Breast Cancer thing. I had a friend from church die of Pancreatic Cancer last year and another friend from that same community died of Cancer.

            I do believe that diet can at least slow it down and may reverse it, and I say that from the people who did programs like Gerson who went into remission. I know it is anecdotal, but I do have a list of people in that category and it can’t hurt.

            The woman who wrote a book on spontaneous remissions said that what she found is that people worked very hard before those remissions happened and radically changing their diets and adding in spices and herbs were two things, which they had in common.

            Seems like a good idea to me, no matter what the studies say. I know I have made my position clear, but scientists have to worry about whether something is Placebo Effect. People with Cancer could use a little Placebo Effect every day as long as it is not something toxic and preferably if it is something, which has nutritional value.

            I am trying to give them wisdom and resources, and there is so much “spin” out there that I am trying to help minimize that for them. Chris is the site, which Googles. So does “The Truth About Cancer” and “Cancer Tutor” and I have looked at those three sites for the past two years and have gone back and forth to PubMed. I don’t hang out on their sites. I use them for jumping off sites. I use this site for a jumping off site, too, but this is pointing me to studies and those are pointing me to what people with Cancer are doing aside from medical.

            How horrible it would be to try to do this whole quagmire of a mental process when people have such serious health problems! That grieves me terribly.

            I am going to say that I left my vet out of the list above and he has liver cancer and I tried to get the people to look at How Not To Die, but they are so Keto and Glucose oriented that it is hard to get their brains to change focus.

            I can easily get them to try Modified Citrus Pectin, because it makes it harder for Cancer to utilize glucose and they “get” that as a good thing, but it is seriously challenging to get them to see eating Vegan as possibly useful. I am not pushing anyone because they need to make up their own minds and talk to their doctors or go outside the medical model themselves. That is personal responsibility and they have such big decisions.

            I am making those decisions for my dog and he looks so amazing.

            I am waiting to see if I got rid of his infection with natural products. It sure looks like it.
            It will be another month before I can verify whether I have shrunk his tumor.

            It was a lot easier for me than it is for everybody else. I couldn’t afford the $10,000 for surgery and he wasn’t a good candidate and the vet expected him to die on the table if I chose that and he recommended against chemo, because he said that, in his experience, it doesn’t increase the lifespan of dogs with the type of Cancer he has.

            Diet has increased his lifespan by a little so far. John McDougall said that.

            He said something like: Even if you already have a Stage 4 Cancer diagnosis, changing the diet even that late can extend the lifespan and improve the quality of life.

            Not an exact quote.

            Anyway, I am trying it with my dog and people are coming to me and asking questions.

            1. Thanks Deb

              Yes, I am sure that a healthy diet and lifetsyle will improve a person’s quality of life and even extend it in many cases.

              However, as you say some cancers appear to be related to our genes and others to viruses.
              ‘As much as 20% of the world’s cancers have been linked to infections. In addition to the connection between HPVs and cervical cancer, chronic infections by hepatitis-B and -C viruses contribute to liver cancer, and the bacterium Helicobacter pylori has been associated with stomach cancer.’

              A healthy diet and lifestyle may not always be effective in halting/curing such cancers.

              1. Yes, I have been pondering the infection angle.

                H Pylori has some nutritional things, which kill it and some which slow it down.


                In one Cancer, 2/3 of the people had E-Coli. Not saying it is causal. Just saying it was correlated and it is something, which we can get rid of.

                Yes, I am working on getting rid of imaginary infections in my dog. The real symptoms are gone, but I am also working “cancer theories” and getting rid of the bad gut bacteria and imaginary viruses will be part of my process.

                I looked at a little bit of Weston Price’s work and I am going to say that the case from him that I just read wasn’t impressive to me. It was two brothers one ate “primitive food” like oatmeal and the other ate candy and sweetened coffee and got teeth problems. If that is when they learned that sugar causes teeth problems, then I take my “not impressed” back. It just seems like it could just have been sugar causes teeth problems, but he is taking all of his concepts and putting it in a primitive diet theory and oatmeal is still a pretty popular breakfast. Paleo does the same, “primitive” thing and it is like there is an extra layer of belief system put into the data.

                Mainly, he is looking at teeth of high sugar eating people and comparing them to non- sugar eaters would be one simpler theory.

                I am not against him coming against processed foods, but he is observational and I am just not sure he can carry the brush strokes that wide when he is looking at teeth.

                I would have to examine the breadth of his work, but it is being used in a way that is promoting adding fats to fruit and vegetables and things like that. Yes, that is the foundation, but it seems like it is because he stepped past simple analysis of what things affect the teeth. I don’t know if it was valid for him to do that or if he was qualified to analyze the data the way he did.

                I am not saying it properly.

                Okay, Dr. Greger pointed to sugar as being linked to heart attacks and strokes. It is also linked to tooth decay. Can a dentist look at his tooth decay patients and say, “Wow, look at how many of them had strokes. It must be they aren’t on a primitive enough diet.”

                Did he do a process like T. Colin Campbell where he analyzed a particular people and logged all sorts of data? Or is he just noticing nicer teeth and having anecdotal conversations?

                I will have to read more.

                Not nice of me to say it like this, because he could have done an extensive process. I just started and him saying one ate candy and one ate “primitive food like oatmeal” didn’t make me a follower.

                1. Already, he hears “oatmeal” and says, “primitive food” and then, he hears “raw milk” and says, “primitive food” and that one I might agree because not many people in America drink raw milk.

                  Does Serbia have lower Cancer rates and better teeth?

                  They have outbreaks of people getting sick from raw milk, so the only way to justify it would be if the number of people getting Cancer or other diseases is so much lower than people not drinking raw milk that getting sick on the pathogens, which are found in about 1/3 of the raw milk would become worth it.

                  1. So primitive man could not brush his teeth and had no plaque?


                    I ask why do Fruititarians get teeth problems if it is all about processed foods?

                    I am wondering if WFPB have been able to stop brushing their teeth and not get plaque?

                    I do know that some enzymes clean the teeth, but apparently not enough to protect against the sugar from just eating fruits all day.

                    Did primitive man drink water with more minerals perhaps? Or just raw milk?

                    1. To me, what primitive people ate has at least three or four guesses, which have been marketed to people and people who romanticize cave men choose one and people who morally oppose eating meat choose another and Weston Price’s group adds in raw and eating fat in one direction and there are other theories and it is like people cling to models in food like they do in fashion.

                      I find it muddies the waters.

                      Processed foods being worse is a simplifying concept, but primitive is a concept which complicates things.

                      Processed food could include juicing or smoothies to some people and to other people it is food with a label or to others it is good with ingredients which are questionable like salt or sugar or preservatives, but it is still fairly straight forward.

  12. As a therapist working with developmental trauma, I’ve had several cases of children who had colic and could not be consoled. It sets up a nervous system that is anxious, fearful, and does not trust, with attachment issues that will impact the ability to have secure relationships.

  13. I have been using Babies magic tea for my super colicky newborn and it worked like a charm by soothing him completely from horrid colic episodes. In this tea fennel and cumin are used which are best for digestive issues and colic in babies.

  14. Two comments:

    1. It’s common knowledge that changing the babies formula (milk to soy or to corn based) will often solve colic. Old problem, old treatment. Nothing new here. Clearly FOOD ALLERGY, IgG is the problem here. Not a vegan thing because there are many allergic to Soy also.

    2. The comment “Now that more women are becoming physicians and graduating medical school classes are approximately 50:50 women and men, hopefully things will change for the better.” is a very sad and sexist comment and very anti-male. As a male physician and plant based I can assure you that gender doesn’t dictate competence. Lot’s of keto/atkin’s female physician advocates. Let’s be gender/color blind and not group people into categories.

      1. Laughing, yes, equal representation is a good thing.

        But, I feel like the being blind to race and gender is a really cool thing, if you can manage it.

        The country gets in these race and gender wars and my family has three mixed marriages, where there was no racial discomfort at all and that was such a nice thing. The nicest thing ever. Better than being PC is when there is a genuine relationship and caring about each other without having race or gender get in the way.

        I watch the news and watch PBS documentaries and parts of the country are so far away from that, but where I live, if you go to my local hospital, it is more women then men and, honestly, they still missed the mark, but there isn’t any obvious glass ceiling for gender.

        When I look at my brothers and I going through school during the women’s movement, during that time, girls were being built up and boys were being looked down on. I remember teachers talking “anti-male” because of the politics of the times. I know it was hard to be a woman wanting rights, but it was also exceedingly hard to be a male and to have mixed messages all the time. Mostly, it was the males falling out of school, not the females, from what I saw. Looking at the young people, it still is the young males who seem lost. The female young people around me went to college. The young men float from job to job, not sure who to be. I have had 4 of them at my place of work and they are “good kids” with sweethearts, but just had nobody at all as a role model or a parent, because their fathers dropped out of the picture entirely and their mothers worked, but somehow the schools are worried about the young women and I appreciate that, but from what I see, the girls are becoming professionals and the young men are becoming nothing at all.

        In my family, there have been 4 homeless males.

        In my friends, many of the males are seriously under-educated and under-employed and struggled with school.

        I don’t know the answer, but I think there are real issues both males and females face and it is about caring about both groups.

        1. For the most part, the people who I know who have been arrested have been males. The people I have known who have successfully killed themselves are males. The people who I have known who were murdered were mostly males and the ones who committed murder were males.

          For the women I am friends with, it was being abused as children and having spouses abuse them or cheat on them, which caused more problems than anything. When it came to jobs, sexual harassment is what they talk about, rather than job glass ceilings. I do know that some of them ended up under-employed because they wanted time to raise children, but the women who pursued careers got the jobs they wanted and the ones who pursued family are underpaid, but they are in jobs which society doesn’t value like elder care or child care or retail and raised their families on multiple minimum wage jobs.

          If you talk to the retail store people, you will get the real scoop. Most of them need two or three jobs and two or three roommates to survive.

        2. I can definitely buy it in theory, Deb, but blindness to gender, race, etc.
          isn’t really a very practical concept. That’s in good part because there are unique characteristics of specific genders and races, many of which are quite worthy of celebration. As you have pointed out, there many times are unique unmet needs as well. Governments and others will often try to make amends for past wrongs with measures meant to be protective. I won’t get into a debate about the efficacy of these, but I will agree that reverse discrimination is sometimes the result. We can hope but don’t always know for sure that it was inadvertent. Sometimes it is argued that this is a necessary evil. That seemingly is eternally debatable. There absolutely is validity to the special challenges of growing up male from say, the latter half of the previous century to today. Having been a male myself, I experienced some of them firsthand. I agree that those needs deserve attention. Too, I must say that male bashing is definitely a thing. There in fact is a frequent commenter in these forums who seemingly does it out of habit. I often wonder to what extent she is even aware of it. The celebration of women is important, but it should never take away from the equally important celebration of men. The sad reality is that sometimes it does. The vice versa holds true as well. I agree wholeheartedly with your final statement, which is actually contrary to gender/color blindness. In fact, other than your statement advocating for it, most of what you wrote seems contrary to it. However, your empathy does seem to be one sided.
          Empathy for one gender doesn’t have to exclude that for another. I would argue that if shouldn’t.

          1. I don’t know that my empathy is one-sided.

            I think my empathy is both-sided.

            I am someone who cries at half of the PBS documentaries and it doesn’t matter if it is Males or Females or Blacks or Whites or Asians or Native Americans or Homeless People or People in Mental Institutions or Prisoners or Professionals or Single mothers or Addicts. I have tears for them all regularly.

            I am watching young people whose single mothers call the males who impregnated them “Baby Daddies” and those men are jumping onto highways or shooting themselves in the head and those women are raising kids on multiple minimum wage jobs and no child support, even when the men were alive.

            I am watching teenagers have babies and not interact with them at all, because they want to spend their time on Facebook or Twitter or Myspace or whatever other social site and I have watched those children not learn the alphabet by 7 years old and those mothers don’t even understand anything at all.

            I tutored an 8th Grader who didn’t know phonics enough to read a simple sentence and who didn’t know what 7 x 0 equaled, because x was just a symbol and he learned phonics and his multiplication tables in a month or so with me, but he is a symbol himself.

            I am not trying to minimize women with glass ceilings. I just have never had even one woman say that she hit one. Some are not professional enough to hit a ceiling, but several are teachers or work at insurance companies or law firms or are computer processors or work in doctors or dentists offices or home care or child care or retail. I genuinely have never had one female say, “I am not getting paid as much as the men I am working with” or “I didn’t get a job or a scholarship or any other opportunity, because a man got it instead.”

            If I take that back, it is because I lived out in California with people who were trying to make it in Hollywood and the ones who directed movies and produced movies and television shows and who became editors and who were able to run cameras are almost all males. There are a few women who ended up selling writing and one who is still doing camera work, but that is the exception. Over on this coast, outside of the cities, the women all make way more money – almost double their husbands pay and work fewer hours.

            1. My sister-in-law makes triple the salary of my brother, who is a hard worker.

              She just ended up working in jobs where the salaries tripled where he was in industries, which many of the jobs went overseas.

              My close friend’s husband the same scenario and her friend and her husband the same scenario. I could mentally go down the line.

              The single mothers though are minimum wage, but it isn’t because men are keeping them down. It is more they worked two jobs and never got a career all of their lives.

              Then, the economy changed, where employers didn’t want full-time workers so they don’t have to pay them overtime or give benefits and, yes, I have had friends who are single mothers go homeless for a few seasons, but the men who went homeless were less educated and didn’t bounce back up.

            2. Here is evidence that your personal experiences are far outside the norm.


              You might say it’s from the way left WaPo, but I don’t really think findings like this are unusual. It’s not exactly current, but I doubt much progress has been made in 3 years. A misogynist getting elected President certainly hasn’t helped matters. Parts of the East Coast seem to see on average less disparity between women’s and men’s pay than other parts of the US, but it is still alarming. I live on the East Coast too, and this study seems to accurately reflect what I’ve seen. Thankfully, it is a disparity that is narrowing, but very slowly. I believe that mindsets like yours add to the problem.

              1. The thing is…..

                To me, the bottom is what really dropped out of the economy.

                You are talking professionals trying to get more money.

                I am interacting with people trying to get any full-time job or to keep their job for more than a year because insurance companies tend to fire everybody at age 50 and because manufacturing went abroad and people can’t even get full-time jobs and that is both males and females and the cost of medical is too much to even go to a doctor or pay for medications and males and females are living on part-time work and seasonal work and minimum wage and they graduate from college and can’t get jobs at all. That is the conversation, which I am having every day.

                That is different than the person who is making $50,000 wanting to make $60,000 or the person making $80,000 wanting to make six figures.

                I suspect that the gender thing starts becoming an issue after people get a full-time job with halfway decent benefits, but that is harder than it ever has been and that is not related to gender.

                1. I am taking about pay discrimination based upon gender. It is not diminished by the fact that there are many other issues we face as a society.

                2. Where I am the males are the ones who drop out of school more often and they are the ones who get arrested more often and kill themselves more often and get directed into less educational pursuits like trades more often.

                  Maybe that isn’t everywhere, but I thought it was.

                  But the young people can’t get jobs at all when they graduate from college and the places like insurance companies fire everybody when they turn 50 and suddenly people go from $50,000 jobs to $12 an hour with no benefits is what I have even heard on the news. That is probably why Trump won, and I am not saying that as a political thing. I know that the people who were desperate for jobs are the ones who voted for him. I say that as someone who hates so many of the sentences he has said and things he has done. But him being elected makes me think that I am right. That the bottom falling out for small businesses and retail shops, except Amazon, and so many industries is the bigger equation.

                  So many of the people I know lost their “careers” in their 50’s and they are genuinely not making $30,000 nowadays and would love to have a professional job again, but it is harder and harder to get one.

                  1. You speak of real and very disturbing trends, Deb, but as I said before, they don’t take anything away from the issue of pay discrimination.

                    1. Scott,

                      I will agree with you about that.

                      Hollywood and sports would be two were there is inequity for sure, but those are two, which probably couldn’t be cleaned up.

                      It is hard to clean up any area, because women still do tend to be the ones who don’t want to work 80 hours per week because they want time with their children, where men tended to already spend less than 5 quality minutes with their kids decades ago.

                  2. By the way, many men (and women) choose a trade as a first choice of vacational pursuit. It Is very often a viable and honorable career choice.

                    1. Yes, I am from generations of blue collar workers high quality trades folk. Good at their trade.

                      My great grandmother worked in her husbands tool and die and my grandmother worked at Pratt & Whitney during World War II.

                      But it is work 80 hours a week and compete against the whole world and we have watched almost all of the small businesses go out of business.

                      I can say that we pay males and females exactly the same wages, but the home ec teacher in our town gets $100,000 and I am not going to tell you how many years it takes me to get that.

      2. It’s the comment about things getting better with females implies things are always worse with males is what’s sexist.

        Frank Brettschneider DO

        Sent from iPhone.

        Please excuse any grammatical errors as this has been sent from my mobile phone.

        1. An increasing number of female physicians takes nothing from the importance of the male contribtution. You might think it shouldn’t matter either way, but because males and females are different, it does. One perspective is not necessarily better than the other, but there are indeed differences—probably more markedly in some ways than others. I believe it is sexist not to honor that. Females should be represented as medical (and osteopathic) doctors in a percentage equal to that of their representation in the population as a whole. That helps to ensure balance. Dr. Greger was the polar opposite of sexist in his statement.

          1. Scott, when I was in my teens through 30, I would agree with you

            And I thought, “I would feel more comfortable with a female doctor.”

            But now it genuinely doesn’t matter which gender any of my professionals are at all.

            I don’t need an equal number of female doctors or female teachers or female auto mechanics.

            i need the ones who are there to give good information and to do their job properly.

            And I wouldn’t like it if Dr Greger said it might be better, because more men are doing the job and I don’t like it just as much when the implication is in the other direction.

            We will know the answer statisticslly in a few decades. We will know whether women don’t overdiagnose and don’t overprescribe medicibe and whether they understand statistics better or whether they have more surgical skills and manual dexterity. We will know if the medical field gets more nutritional driven or more compassionate or whether more diseases are cured, but we don’t know yet that they are smarter or better at any of it.

            Evidence based is what I expect from you Dr Greger.

            I like that you aren’t putting women down, but I don’t want you to put us up or men down either.

            1. And if it turns out that women really are smarter and better at medicine than all of you are and a study shows it, I will come back here and apologize.

              1. Not words typical of a “gender blind” proponent. I think that’s good, but aren’t women and men most likely equally good but different? Barring any disparities in general physical attributes, that would seem to be the most likely finding. I am so convinced of it that I’m not particularly interested in the studies. If that makes me biased, I’ll wear it with pride. I in fact would suspect bias or confounding variables in any studies that suggested significant differences other than those noted. I don’t really see how the confounding variables could ever be controlled in the first place—at least not until such a day as gender equality becomes the norm in both practice and attitude. And yes, there are confounders in both directions.

        2. Yes, I am a woman, but I would agree.

          Though, I think where that was supposed to make a true difference was that medically, women’s health issues weren’t always handled properly, so there may be some areas, where it is a fair sentence.

          Honestly, it is just such a complicated issue because it is about people competing for wealth and resources and there are people who have an unfair advantage all the time.

          Nepotism is one.

          Beauty is another. WNPR did a series where attractive people are hired more often and for more money and they get away with doing less work and don’t get called out for their mistakes.

          The list will go on and on and on because life isn’t fair.

          The males in my town often went into jobs like tradesmen and machinists and auto mechanics and carpenters and many of the ones I am thinking of are getting older and their backs have started going out and they didn’t pay into social security and I don’t even know what is going to happen to some of them.

          Life is scary for a lot of people.

          1. I think it is as if the disparity in society has caused people to be like two hands missing a connection and not clapping.

            I listened to an actress who was the star of a movie, who was underpaid and it did surprise me, but she still makes more for one movie than all of the people in my whole company and my friends and other family members put together in a year.

            It doesn’t make it morally right, but I am not hearing stories like Jimi Hendrix level of abuse.

            And I am helping friends keep their power from being shut off and keep their kids having blankets and toilet paper.

            When I was younger i watched baseball until Dave Winfield get paid a million dollars. I didn’t feel sorry for Reggie Jackson. I stopped watching baseball and a few years ago, I got rid of cable and movies cost $16.50 or something like that, so I can’t afford to watch that young woman’s movie at all and never have watched it, so I guess I am not the right person for her to generate sympathy from, but I do have it, I just have the issue as lower on my priority list.

            1. I think wealthy people compare their salaries to other people.

              Poor people compare their salaries to their bills and want everybody in medical and education and government to make less.

              1. I am a poor person. My income is nearly poverty level. I live alone in a subsidized housing project. I tend to be a social isolate, but that’s not because I don’t care about people. I do not partake in my community’s wholesale price for cable TV. Just my internet costs more than I should pay for cable services. I am on food stamps and fuel assistance. Other than one cousin in a neighboring state, my closest family is nearly 2,000 miles away. My greatest personal fear is homelessness. I have been homeless more than once, but the kindness of others has prevented me from being forced into the streets. That may be because someone like me would be more challenged by that than most. I fought as hard as I could to get ahead in life, but it never happened. My stumbling blocks weren’t gender related, but that doesn’t stop me from appreciating the fact that gender discrimination is a real issue, and that it is wrong. After it seemed like every strike against me had already occurred, I got prostate cancer a bit before my 60th birthday. A plant-based diet is part of my approach to try to keep that from recurring (post primary treatment). That’s much more why I am here than to defend the downtrodden. Still, I do tend to take opportunities to support social justice. That’s because I believe in it strongly. I feel it would be selfish to be concerned only with injustices that impact me or my kind. I am glad that’s not an impulse I need to fight off.

                1. Scott,

                  I respect that and I respect that you are not putting down women and that you are acknowledging discrimination.

                  Yes, I am Vegan, because I can’t afford doctors or chiropractors or medicines or dentists or any of it. Just makes sense to be one. I heard the reversal of diseases and knew it was the way to go.

                  My grandmother passed away two years ago and she made $8000 per year on social security. She never made $20,000 in her whole life.

                  Elderly people are losing their houses, even when they don’t have mortgages, because they can’t afford the taxes and utilities or medicines. They are choosing between housing and food and medicine all the time.

                  Near me, there is a 10-year waiting list for low-income housing and they don’t even let people put their names on the list anymore.

                  I have never made $40,000, but I am so much better off than my friends who raised families on the salary from part-time retail jobs or part-time child care or part-time elder care. I have a friend with multiple part-time jobs who raised three children with mental health issues, but her rent kept going up and by the time she was homeless, her rent was $12,000 per year and her take-home pay was $13,000 per year, but I will tell you that even welfare motels are $1000 per month here, so it just is miserable for people.

                  To me, the cry of these parts is more that people can’t find full-time jobs at all anymore because companies don’t want to pay benefits. High school students rarely get jobs anymore, because they are competing with college students and elderly people and I have an elderly man here who is 85 years old and still working because he could never afford to retire.

                  Scott, I respect you and I am not far away from your situation. I no longer go to sporting events or movies or restaurants and don’t do a whole lot of shopping, except for organic produce and I have been spending a fortune on trying to heal my dog and he is still looking good and that is the first thing I thank God about every morning. Still alive is such a good thing.

                  1. I came home and my dog was bleeding again and he hasn’t bled for weeks and I haven’t had him on the Yunnan Baiyao and I have had him on things like Serrapeptase and I gave him the Dragons blood and Myrrh emergency little red pill and he stopped bleeding again and I love Yunnan Baiyao.

                    No systemic enzymes for the next week and he is back on the Yunnan Baiyao.

                  2. Thanks, Deb. Managing day-to-day life is certainly precarious for a lot of us. I am fortunate to have the assistance I get. I live in a state that cares for its poor much better than average. There is an affordable housing problem in my region of the country too and it has long been at crisis level in the resort area I call home. The reason this area became my home is because of the labor shortage experienced here. The problem with that is that the available jobs are summer seasonal and very low paying in relation to the much higher cost of living here. US college students from elsewhere don’t generally want them because of the lack of housing. Many get filled by foreign workers that are housed in what would be considered substandard to most. The usual scenario is too many people sharing a rent house, but a lucky few get dormitory style housing. Of course, few if any of these jobs have health insurance benefits. The economy here is so difficult that the young people tend to graduate high school, leave for college or wherever, and never come back. I waited 5 years to get into a housing project. The one I am in is far from ideal, but I am grateful for it.

                    I think my experiences with poverty have deepened my values. I don’t like seeing the odds stacked up against anyone. It’s plenty challenging enough on a relatively level playing field. As you and I have seen, it is way too challenging for a lot of people, but I think injustices are often causal factors in underemployment and poverty as well.

                    I have been watching from afar as your treat your dog’s cancer. I love dogs. I had one that was a wonderful companion. We persevered through a very challenging decade. Having her with me gave extra meaning to the fight for survival. She lived to 10 which I guess is about average for larger breeds. Losing her was tough. I hope your dog makes a full recovery. He is blessed by your love.

  15. My child had horrific ‘colic’ as an infant. Even in the hospital, post birth, the nurses had to take him and keep him elevated. He could only be upright at all times. One time it was so bad that he cried for over 7 hours. As we were on our way to the hospital, he fell asleep from pure exhaustion. We immediately went to his pediatrician the next morning for an emergency visit. The pedetrician told me to cut all dairy out of my diet – before I gave birth I was dairy free but returned to dairy in the hospital and shortly after. Eliminating dairy worked almost immediately because it takes a tick to fully get the proteins out of your system.

    Thank you for informing people about the effect of dairy on young children. I can’t even discuss the horror of how children and infants are treated in hospital. It’s disgusting.

  16. My kids had colic when they were babies. With my daughter I discovered I had a yeast infection in my breasts. I took diflucan several times and it cleared up her colic. I was so sensitive to sugar I couldn’t eat fruit or high sugar vegetables like carrots or potatoes. That was such a rough time. It’s terrible to feel that your breast milk is causing your child so much pain. I sure don’t remember if I was drinking cows milk but I imagine it would have aggravated the yeast problem.

  17. Activated Charcoal water is also great for infant colic and no side effects. Just stir half a teaspoon of activated charcoal into water, let the charcoal sediment settle then pour the water into the babies bottle for use.

  18. Sometimes it is advantageous to look beyond just the nutrition realm and colic is such a case. Several case studies and at least one large randomized clinical trial showed that chiropractic adjusting can relieve colic which sometimes persists even after dietary changes. The mechanism appears to have to do with alleviating stress in the central nervous system likely caused by spinal misalignment that occurred during the birth process.
    As a chiropractor in the field, I have treated hundreds of these kids with remarkable results. Often times moms will make dietary changes in the days before an appointment and then come in if there is no observable response from diet alone. (As a side note; adjusting babies only involves using a b couple ounces of sustained pressure and no forceful movements. )

  19. We’d very much like to see the unbiased peer reviewed well founded clinical studies you’re talking about. If you post journal citations I, and many others, will read them.

    Dr. Ben

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