Flashback Friday: Paleopoo – What We Can Learn from Fossilized Feces

Flashback Friday: Paleopoo – What We Can Learn from Fossilized Feces
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Ancient dietary practices based on analyzing the fiber content of fossilized human waste can give us insights for combating the modern obesity epidemic.

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In the U.S., we tend to get less than 20 grams of fiber a day, only about half the minimum recommended intake. But in populations where many of our deadliest diseases are practically unknown, such as rural China and rural Africa, they’re eating huge amounts of whole plant foods, up to a 100 grams of fiber a day or more, which is what it’s estimated our Paleolithic ancestors were getting based on dietary analyses of modern-day primitive hunter-gatherer tribes and by analyzing coprolites, human fossilized feces. In other words, paleopoop.

 These most intimate of ancient human artifacts were often ignored or discarded during many previous archaeological excavations, but careful study of materials painstakingly recovered from human paleofeces says a lot about what ancient human dietary practices were like, given their incredibly high content of fiber, undigested plant remains. Such study strongly suggests that for over 99% of our existence as a distinct species, our gastrointestinal tract has been exposed to the selective pressures exerted by a fiber-filled diet of whole plant foods. So, for millions of years before the first stone tools and evidence of butchering, our ancestors were eating plants. But what kind of plants?

 One way you can tell if animals are natural folivores or frugivores is to map the area of absorptive mucosa in their gut versus their functional body size.  Folivores are those meant to eat mostly foliage—leaves, while frugivores are better designed to eat fruit. The faunivores, another name for carnivores, eat the fauna.

If you chart animals this way, they fall along distinctive lines. So, where do humans land? Here’s our functional body size, and here’s our absorptive area.  So, while eating our greens is important, it appears the natural dietary status of the human species is primarily that of a fruit-eater.

Why does it matter how much fiber we used to eat?  Well, one theory for the rising levels of obesity in Western populations is that the body’s mechanisms for controlling appetite evolved to match how many plants we used to eat. Our ancestors ate so many plant foods we were getting like 100 grams of fiber a day; so, for millions of years, food equaled fiber.  So, no surprise one of the physiological mechanisms our body evolved to suppress our appetite involved this fiber.

 For example, fiber is metabolized by our gut flora into short-chain fatty acids, which bind to and activate receptors on the surface of our cells that alter our metabolism, for example, activating receptors on fat cells to increase the expression of the weight-reducing hormone, leptin. Other hormones are affected as well.  Since until recently, food meant fiber, an increase in food intake meant an increase in fiber intake, which made our gut bacteria so happy they made lots of short chain fatty acids, which activated the cell-surface receptors that released a bunch of hormones that made us lose our appetite and down regulated hunger. So, we ate less. But if we ate less, there’s less fiber in our gut; so, less of those hormones were released,  boosting our appetite; we got hungry and wanted to eat. But what if food doesn’t equal fiber, like on the standard American diet? Then, we just keep getting these signals to eat, eat, and eat. We’re always hungry. If we haven’t eaten our 100 grams of fiber for the day, our body may be like, “What? Are we starving here?”

 Discovering this mechanism makes the food and pharmaceutical industries very excited. They figure they can now come up with new drugs in the fight against the current obesity onslaught. Or, we could just eat as nature intended.

To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video. This is just an approximation of the audio contributed by Katie Schloer.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Images thanks to James St. John and Linda Spashett via Flickr, Eleifert via Wikimedia Commons, and Pixel-mixer and cegoh via Pixabay.

In the U.S., we tend to get less than 20 grams of fiber a day, only about half the minimum recommended intake. But in populations where many of our deadliest diseases are practically unknown, such as rural China and rural Africa, they’re eating huge amounts of whole plant foods, up to a 100 grams of fiber a day or more, which is what it’s estimated our Paleolithic ancestors were getting based on dietary analyses of modern-day primitive hunter-gatherer tribes and by analyzing coprolites, human fossilized feces. In other words, paleopoop.

 These most intimate of ancient human artifacts were often ignored or discarded during many previous archaeological excavations, but careful study of materials painstakingly recovered from human paleofeces says a lot about what ancient human dietary practices were like, given their incredibly high content of fiber, undigested plant remains. Such study strongly suggests that for over 99% of our existence as a distinct species, our gastrointestinal tract has been exposed to the selective pressures exerted by a fiber-filled diet of whole plant foods. So, for millions of years before the first stone tools and evidence of butchering, our ancestors were eating plants. But what kind of plants?

 One way you can tell if animals are natural folivores or frugivores is to map the area of absorptive mucosa in their gut versus their functional body size.  Folivores are those meant to eat mostly foliage—leaves, while frugivores are better designed to eat fruit. The faunivores, another name for carnivores, eat the fauna.

If you chart animals this way, they fall along distinctive lines. So, where do humans land? Here’s our functional body size, and here’s our absorptive area.  So, while eating our greens is important, it appears the natural dietary status of the human species is primarily that of a fruit-eater.

Why does it matter how much fiber we used to eat?  Well, one theory for the rising levels of obesity in Western populations is that the body’s mechanisms for controlling appetite evolved to match how many plants we used to eat. Our ancestors ate so many plant foods we were getting like 100 grams of fiber a day; so, for millions of years, food equaled fiber.  So, no surprise one of the physiological mechanisms our body evolved to suppress our appetite involved this fiber.

 For example, fiber is metabolized by our gut flora into short-chain fatty acids, which bind to and activate receptors on the surface of our cells that alter our metabolism, for example, activating receptors on fat cells to increase the expression of the weight-reducing hormone, leptin. Other hormones are affected as well.  Since until recently, food meant fiber, an increase in food intake meant an increase in fiber intake, which made our gut bacteria so happy they made lots of short chain fatty acids, which activated the cell-surface receptors that released a bunch of hormones that made us lose our appetite and down regulated hunger. So, we ate less. But if we ate less, there’s less fiber in our gut; so, less of those hormones were released,  boosting our appetite; we got hungry and wanted to eat. But what if food doesn’t equal fiber, like on the standard American diet? Then, we just keep getting these signals to eat, eat, and eat. We’re always hungry. If we haven’t eaten our 100 grams of fiber for the day, our body may be like, “What? Are we starving here?”

 Discovering this mechanism makes the food and pharmaceutical industries very excited. They figure they can now come up with new drugs in the fight against the current obesity onslaught. Or, we could just eat as nature intended.

To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video. This is just an approximation of the audio contributed by Katie Schloer.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Images thanks to James St. John and Linda Spashett via Flickr, Eleifert via Wikimedia Commons, and Pixel-mixer and cegoh via Pixabay.

Doctor's Note

Isn’t that a really fascinating mechanism? All along I was thinking of fiber more from just an energy density perspective (as in my video Eating More to Weigh Less), but the appetite-suppressing hormones are a whole new frontier. That underscores the urgency of the fact that 96% of Americans don’t even reach the recommended minimum intake of fiber (see my video Do Vegetarians Get Enough Protein?)

Other paleo videos include:

For bowel function in the modern age, see, for example, How Many Bowel Movements Should You Have Every Day? and Should You Sit, Squat, or Lean During a Bowel Movement?

My latest on fiber:

And my latest on what your gut bacteria can do for you:

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

134 responses to “Flashback Friday: Paleopoo – What We Can Learn from Fossilized Feces

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  1. I think this is one of the most important videos that Dr G has produced. This, along with all the other physiologic features of the human body, carries more weight in convincing me that the optimal diet for humans is whole plant foods. The meat, egg, and dairy proponents can easily produce reductionist research studies showing that their foods are great for humans. But when one looks at the big picture, their arguments just don’t fit in!

  2. Yes, fiber is super important…

    But, I really wish that Doctors would look more at the chemical exposures and epigenetic issues that cause obesity… It isn’t all about what we eat, but our exposures to the thousands of man made chemicals in our enviroments.
    My family has always eaten a lot of fiber… lots! Had gardens, live near farms… eat lots of vegtables.
    BUT, we’re all fat! Even with exercise and lots of moving, watching our food intake, and just over all eating in a healthy manner… We’re still all FAT! AND, we have auto immune issues, like Type 1 diabetes! And Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis! And Barret’s Esophagus and stomach cancer and uterine cancer! And several other cancers!

    This video looks at what people used to eat WAY before the issue of environmental toxins were a problem. It might not just be the fiber they ate, but the fact that they weren’t exposed to all this crap in the first place…

    1. Laurie,

      I am interested in what your family was eating.

      It would help me greatly to understand.

      You had gardens, were you using pesticides?

      Were you eating meats and dairy or closer to Whole Food Plant-Based? Junk food? Sounds like you weren’t doing as much processed food. Refined carbs? Baked goods? White pasta? White breads? Not smoothies and juices.

      I am going to agree with you that RoundUp is obesogenic.

      It just would help me to understand it better having the bigger picture.

      I grew up SAD – fast food, restaurant food, junk food, Italian and French bread, lots of cheese, lots of milk, lots of ice cream.

      Switching to organic didn’t cause weight loss for me.

      Switching to WFPB – no oil, low salt, low sugar only resulted in a little bit of weight loss for me.

      I am still working on things.

      I am interested in what you are saying, but there are so many variables in weight gain that it is hard to mentally process anecdotal, when there isn’t enough information.

      1. I for some reason have just the opposite effect. I’m 5’10” male and went from 178 down to now 141.6 in 19 months and am not trying to lose any more yet it keeps slowly dropping on WFPB. I am not interested in eating critters or their bodily secretions any longer but my medical doctor is very concerned and trying to get me to drink Ensure with dairy. I can drop clear down to 130 before my BMI hits the ‘underweight’ classification’ so am not as concerned as the doc. I had been 130 before up to my 30’s and have a small frame.

        Watching portion size and not eating until I am stuffed is a big part. Getting daily exercise, 60 minutes mild stationary bike cardio followed by 20 minutes of yoga also has been a part of my daily life. Weight loss is simple math, calories – physical activity = what you weigh. One can eat all the right things and not lose weight if they are too sedentary. One can also exercise until exhaustion and not lose weight if they are not watching their portion sizes and quality of food eaten. Both must be given equal merit for success.

        1. Jimbo,

          Yes, and being a post-menopausal woman, who has had a fairly sedentary life for the past decade, it just is not going to work the same as people who have more active lives.

          I have lowered my salad to a 5 ounce box of kale and I still don’t eat all of it at one time. I looked at the no-oil salad dressing and that is probably my biggest calories. Pretty close to 210 calories per day. Maybe even closer to 300 calories some days. Yes, I don’t just use 2 tablespoons for the whole box of kale and that might be what is pushing me over the edge to where I can’t lose.

          I am not doing salad every single day now, so I guess I will see if I do better on things like chili and lentil loaf. Someone told me that I eat too much protein with all of the beans and lentils that I eat.

          I think I probably use too much salad dressing and too much plant milk in my coffee, but who knows, they could be right.

          1. Deb, I don’t know about eating 5 oz. of kale, but when I eat a mixed salad of a great variety of ingredients, (here are SOME…. chick peas, kidney beans, green peas, spinach, red onion, red cabbage, sliced cooked beets, edamame, broccoli, cauliflower, shredded carrot…) I really like plain balsamic vinegar as a “dressing.” I get this salad from a salad bar and the plain balsamic vinegar tastes far superior to any of the myriad dressings they also offer–some with oil and some without….

            This is my favorite “eat out” meal.

            When I eat at home and my choices are not so wide, I like a dressing in the PlantPure Nation cookbook by Kim Campbell–balsamic vinaigrette.

        2. A few years ago I did a nutritional comparison between Ensure and a carrot. Ensure is mostly sugar and water with synthetic Vitamins added. Carrots are far more nutritious. it’s what doctors feed patients to help them on their way to the Pearly Gates. They use that and similar products to starve patients to death. People (possibly including doctors themselves) don’t understand that those products are very far from being the complete meal claimed. So I’d say that’s what you’re doing to yourself – your starving yourself to death.

          Why don’t you eat Canadian Wild Rice? I say Canadian because yours are sprayed and ours are clean. You can make muffins with almond flour you make yourself.

        3. Jimbo,

          “Weight loss is simple math”

          Totally agree, perhaps the devil is in the details.
          A ‘real WFPB diet’ and daily vigorous exercise.

        4. I’d like to gain weight and it seems no matter how much vegan food calories I eat, I struggle to put weight on. I think we all have individual gut microbiomes and that maybe I seem to need dairy and some eggs in a balanced plant based diet to put weight on, and muscle. And I eat lots of beans grains veggies nuts fruit, lots of vegan calories. . I’d rather be all vegan but need to gain. Any suggestions or insight? Thanks.

          1. Bev, some of my vegan patients have the same problem. Especially those who have a lot of muscle because they need more calories. Muscle uses 2&1/2 times calories of body fat.
            Make sure you are getting adequate protein (45-55grams) daily by eating beans, legumes, especially soy products like tempeh, edamame, tofu, black soybeans etc.
            You may also need to add more healthy fats. Can add ground flaxseed, nuts, seeds, avocados, nut butter. Add some whole grains, potatoes, sweet potatoes for good starches. Unless you have heart disease, nuts and avocados aren’t a problem.Try to have at least 9 servings of fruit and veggies a day to make sure you get enough nutrients.
            You just may not be eating enough calories.
            And, of course, best way to add muscle is exercise, both aerobic and resistance. More exercise may also give you a healthier appetite. Try to do at least 30 minutes a day 5 days a week minimum.
            One other thing, if you are young, you may not be getting enough iron. At your annual check-up get a ferritin level and CBC.
            If you need more, you can take a vegan non-heme iron like Raw Iron.

            1. What brand of raw iron?

              Also, intolerant to soy, all forms. Darn. And other beans do nothin for me. Can eat large amounts and see no positive effects.

              But, interested in finding out the iron supplement you might suggest. Thanks.

              1. The best source of iron on the planet is hemp hearts. Nothing but nothing beats hemp hearts as THE perfect food for humanity as long as you are not of Celtic descent. If you are, use with caution under the supervision of a doctor. No joke.

                Google the Irish Disease.

              2. jj, here is a link describing iron sources, and some cautions regarding supplements. https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/iron/ Please don’t take an iron supplement without a blood test and your doctor’s approval. I test anemic fairly often, but food sources are preferable to supplements in my doc’s opinion, though your doctor may believe otherwise.

          2. Bev

            Processing aids calorie absorption.

            You will absorb fewer calories from eating whole nuts than from eating the same amount of nuts crushed and ground into nut butter for example. If you eat your fruits and vegetables as smoothies, you will also extract more calories from them than you would eatng them as raw whole foods. Virtually any form of processing from steaming to blending will increase calorie absorption from foods.

          3. I found an earlier answer of Dr Greger to another viewer with the same question which you will find helpful:

            “As explained in my video Eating More to Weigh Less, the key to healthy longterm weight loss is understanding calorie density and eating low calorie-dense foods. When applied in reverse, the concept of calorie density can be used to gain weight. In other words, you would want to eat more foods that are more calorie dense. The idea is to not just add a single one of these foods, but to add several foods into your diet until the amount of calories you take in exceed your energy needs. Examples of higher calorie dense foods appropriate for a whole food plant-based diet include: nuts, nut butters, dried fruits, tofu, avocados, and whole grain breads/crackers/dry goods. Eating more cooked food than raw also helps with calorie intake.

            You can incorporate several of these relatively healthy foods into each meal and snack, and eat primarily cooked foods. For example, a person wanting to lose weight will want to use vegetable-based sauces, but you would use nut-based sauces. While a person wanting to lose or maintain weight would include a lot of raw food, say big salads with some lemon juice as the dressing, you might eat smaller amounts of raw food and far more cooked veggies, beans, and grains.

            While that’s the answer to your actual question, I would step back and ask, “Why do you want to gain weight?” Are you hoping to gain more fat? Gaining fat isn’t generally healthy unless you are severely fat deficient, which is fairly rare. On the other hand, if you want to gain more weight without gaining fat, then what you are talking about is gaining muscle, and that involves more than just changing your diet … it includes incorporating weight-bearing exercises into your workout regimen.”

            As far as gaining muscle and the possible need to add dairy and eggs, check out the new movie “Game Changers” about elite vegan athletes and I think you’ll find it pretty convincing that muscle can indeed be built very well on a whole food plant based diet.

      2. Deb,
        We would have to sit down with tea for several hours and talk…

        Yup, lots of pesticides, including the now banned DDT. And lots of exposures to all kinds of chemicals my Dad brought home from work.

        How about oiling your gravel driveway with used motor and machine oils… then swimming in the run off in the pond next to the driveway, or drinking the well water.

        How about being exposed to sewage sludge my Dad got from the local treatment plant to use on our yard! Scientists are just finding out how bad that stuff is!

        Or, living just down the road from a super fund site… Neighbor was using his property to make some money on the side by allowing local companies to dump toxic waste on his property (local officials had to have known). We played in a creek… that flowed down to a local lake, that ran through his property. AND, ate fish from that lake! Swam in it too.

        All this in a beautiful, rural setting…

        What gets me is, people were aware of how bad all this was right from the beginning… but for some weird reason, humans seem to be able to deny that it will ever affect THEM, or their kids!

        And, even though we ate a lot of plant based meals (Mom canned a lot, though not organic!), my Mother was one to buy the newest pre-packaged crap the food companies were putting out in the 1950s and 60s…

        No wonder so many of us are sick, hey?

    2. Laurie, fiber alone isn’t just what’s important. There are lots of fiber mixes people can buy. It’s also about our diet. A whole foods plant based diet is the diet Dr. Greger recommends. Check out his free, super easy daily dozen app, it will make it really clear how we’re supposed to be eating. No matter what other issues there are from genetics to chemical exposures, a WFPB diet will ensure you’re taking the best care of yourself.

      As for chemicals and being overweight, I would imagine that hormone disrupting chemicals such as BPA could attribute to that. Oxybenzone and chemicals similar to it, which are found in commercial sunscreens and even hidden in some so-called natural sunscreens via chemicals similar to it but by other names (sorry I can’t remember them) is a major one–so disruptive to hormones that they’re depleting ocean populations of various species and destroying the coral reefs. I would love if Dr. Greger did a video showing the harm of chemical sunscreen as it’s one of the biggest threats to the ocean and planet.

  3. I have a doctor who insists that we have to be hungry to lose weight. This video puts the kibosh on that idea, doesn’t it? I wish I could convince him to watch it but….

    1. Laughing.

      Once people are set in their minds, it is harder to get them to watch something which isn’t in line with what they believe.

      My close friend invited me to a weekly weight loss meeting where everybody else would be Keto.

      Laughing.

      I am the stone in the shoe of the Keto people.

      1. They aren’t losing weight on it, but they think it is because they aren’t doing it perfectly enough and this would be an accountability, support group.

    2. Barbie, in a way I agree with your doctor. I have maintained this idea for decades that people basically want to feel comfortable and lose weight at the same time ie eat their cake and have it too…. and this is part of the problem. But, for me, even if I stuff myself with veg, if I am down 200 calories in a day, I feel it. If I am down 500, I feel it acutely even if I filled myself with kale all day. It isn’t about volume (for
      everyone).

      If my muscles are a little sore, I feel pleasantly tired, I need to put a sweater on at night, and I could eat the third apple in the day, I am probably on the losing weight side of the equation.

      1. Barbie, I agree with your doctor. As long as you are eating constantly, you are raising insulin levels. While insulin is high, you cannot burn fat. Insulin is a storing hormone.
        For most of human history people went thru periods of low food intake, either deliberately thru fasting, or because of scarcity.
        So our bodies are better adapted to storing fat than losing it. To lose weight eat lower calorie food, eat less, less often.
        Feeling hungry is not unnatural.

    1. Lots of cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, none of which existed back then plus seeds (tahini sauce) and pretty well ever other vegetable in the grocery store and many more that aren’t.

      You have to become a forager to learn about the plants we used to eat that we don’t eat any more.

    2. linda, you could work out an appetizing meal plan for yourself with foods you like from the Daily Dozen with these links I am posting. The first is Dr Greger’s recommended Daily Dozen, and the second is the nutritional database for fiber. You can set the database for any category of foods mentioned there like vegetables or fruit, but beware the settings for quantity.

      Basically I choose foods from the Daily Dozen categories that have 4 or 5 gm of fiber per 100 calories or more. This way I am getting 75 gm of fiber /day eating 1500 calories total. If I was running or bicycling more and ate 2000 calories I would be getting more fiber.
      Anyway, check it out and see how you are doing with your wfpb meals.

      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dr-gregers-daily-dozen-checklist/
      https://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000006000000000000000-w.html

  4. No mention of grains in this, whole or otherwise Fumblefingers. Have I reached genius level yet?

    Claiming grain was a natural dietary staple after that video seems far-fetched to me. That is not to say that no grain was eaten. But since we started out in trees where there are lots of leaves, fruit and meat including insects means grain and tubers were late comers to the table as far as our evolving intestinal tracts are concerned.

    A key question my my mind is this: how did our ancestors avoid ingesting too much Vitamin K? That thickens blood, causing high blood pressure and ultimately heart attacks. Of course our ancient ancestors lived far more active lifestyles than we can in most case today so much stronger hearts capable of pumping thicker blood. By comparison, our blood must be very watery and easy to pump. That translates into less oxygen and fewer nutrients delivered to cells throughout our body.

    Dairy of course is a complete non-event in this scenario as was excessive amounts of sugar and salt. But seeds must have been part of their diet.

    It all boils down to accessibility. What could you eat as a tree dweller that was on the ground that you could grab fast enough to be able to make it back to the tree with it in your hand or mouth without being picked off by a predator? Grain that grows far away from trees would not be on the menu. Why would grain be a food option if having stuffed into your mouth, you couldn’t eat it? And if you did, most of it would go right through you providing little or no food value. Why would you waste precious ground time on grain when you could be picking berries and other plant foods that were abundant (and still are abundant everywhere; we call them weeds today)?

    I’m going out on a limb here because for sure there will be careful analysis of all that ancient shit and at some point grain is bound to be found. Regardless, I’m going with what seems to be common sense. No one was eating cereal with milk, bacon and eggs, pancakes or any other foods our culture considers food now.

    Eggs are a good case in point: not available every day for breakfast and in fact, only available when you could find them during breeding season (spring) so not part of a real, regular Paleolithic diet and certainly not breakfast.

    Goodbye whole grains.

      1. I guess I used the term loosely. Vitamin K enhances and predisposes the blood to form clots. I wish someone had mentioned this mental error before. Thank you.

        At its worst I could cut myself and not bleed. I’m flowing nicely now.

          1. I have a salad at noon that has a lot of Tahini sauce in it as well as shaved cabbage, zucchini, radishes, water cress, broccoli, cauliflower, green beans, avocado, salmon, or octopus or sardines, blue berries, black currants, raspberries, nut sometimes.

            For supper I have wild rice, the other half of the avocado, celery, parsley, whipped cauliflower turkey wings, turkey thighs, occasionally breasts. Recently I’ve been eating elk too so as to cut back on saturated fat.

            When I switched to this diet I lost 20 pounds then levelled off. My stomach is slowly flattening.

            I feel great and when I get upon the morning I feel as good about it as I did when I was six.

            I haven’t felt this good since then.

            Do I go off the rails? Yes occasionally and I lose a night’s sleep.

            Things come and go depending on what’s in season and cheap.

            I take Magnesium too but I have no idea whether that is doing anything. Maybe not

            I take collagen from Costco because I have necrosis of the hip. Without it I’m on crutches. With it my last MRI said my hip was healing. People have said that’s impossible but it’s been months since I’ve needed crutches. I was a pretty bad case too.

            1. “I have a salad at noon that has a lot of Tahini sauce in it as well as shaved cabbage, zucchini, radishes, water cress, broccoli, cauliflower, green beans, avocado, salmon, or octopus or sardines, blue berries, black currants, raspberries, nut sometimes.”
              – – – – – –

              All that stuff mixed together? Sounds like a lot of work for one meal.

              I assume you cook the broccoli, cauliflower and green beans first.(?) Personally, I’d never eat the fruit with the veggies and fish. Elk? Octopus? Nothing I’d ever want to try….same goes for oysters. Yucko. :-( But,. different strokes for different folks.

              1. When you’re as sick as I was, taste is not high on your list of priorities. But I did draw the line for years on sauerkraut. And I continued to eat bananas. The bananas are history.

                And no, not everything goes into the bowel at once but I do eat a huge bowl with as many ingredients as possible. I also cut everything up small to fit more in. I left out ginger and turmeric.

                You’ll notice no onions. I have gall stones. If you eat onions and have gall stones they will put you on the floor pretty fast. I’m hoping they dissolve over time. Haven’t had a flare up for years.

                No, I don’t cook anything. All raw. I don’t like cooked broccoli. Or cauliflower. I do cook brussels sprouts and carrots.

                I like my food chewy. So Octopus and squid are favourites. Elk is pretty good. Better than beef by a mile. I eat all fish, mussels, clams, lobster, crab and winkles but not oysters.

                Niacinamide I have if my memory seems to be slipping. Haven’t needed it for a while. That works very well.

                Where supplements are concerned it’s almost impossible to take what you need without having bloodwork and/or a hair analysis to find out what you’re deficient in. Sort of like being blindfolded, spun around and then trying to hit the bullseye with each dart.

                It takes about an hour to prepare, eat and wash the dishes. I’m retired so that eliminates some of the time stress. But I still work 7 days a week morning to night on my own projects.

                You only have so much time. Eating the wrong foods deducts time because they slow you down. I eat to speed up.

                  1. Yes. I was a victim of the medical corruption, modern diet, medical incompetence in that order over and over again. I spent most of my life sick, getting sick, getting over being sick with brief spells of tenuous health. So my book is written from the point of view of what it took to recover from the litany of wrongs perpetrated by my doctors. I’ve had something of just about everything and a lot of it unbelievable.

                    Necrosis of the hip is the disintegration of the hip. The bone dies. In my case, the collagen is somehow bringing it back. It’s doing it so well I’m actually considering postponing the hip replacement. The crippling pain is completely gone and the MRI showed new growth. It’s been months since the last MRI so the next one will tell the tale.

                    1. Not point in complaining about the cards I was dealt. Statistically everyone’s life has been shit one way or another. I’m a survivor. I’m the lucky one who managed to figure out what was being done to me before they “got” me. Now I get to tell the world how to survive government, corporate and medical greed. When I do, I may rock the global economy. In the process I’ll give people the opportunity to make life-saving choices.

                      I hope to change the way health care is taught and delivered. Especially in the US where people really have a need to know how to look after themselves so they can avoid hospitals and parasitic medical expenses. My book will teach people in great detail how to eat, drink, digest and excrete in terms everyone can understand. Plenty of medical myths and abuses will be exploded.

                      That will make me happy. Even so, there will be plenty of people who will try to shoot me down since I’m no doctor; I’m a retired interior designer. For most of the 40 years I’ve spent doing the research I was unemployable due to my handicaps. But those handicaps gave me the time to do the research and the design career taught me how to do most of the rest that you need to run a business and survive on sporadic income. Falling through the cracks is no fun.

              1. I do eat beans occasionally. Not miso yet. It hasn’t entered my sphere of experience except as soup when I’m having sashimi and thus wasabi as well.

          2. Probiotics are a scam. I took probiotics for years trying to defeat Candidiasis. It didn’t work. I detested the idea of eating sauerkraut but finally came to the conclusion that there was nothing left to try. So I bit the bullet and tried it.

            I’m not going to lie to you and tell you I like eating sauerkraut. I don’t. I detest it. But it works. Or it has for me. Very quickly too. Within three weeks my symptoms were gone.

            I have taken all sorts of supplements over the course my 40 years of research devoted to saving my own life. So worked a bit. Nothing worked better than simply cutting dairy, grain, processed food and sugar completely out of my diet. That and the sauerkraut.

            In Japan, in a study, elderly men were confronted with the reality that after 70 we start losing muscle and bone mass. Unlike other places in the world, they responded by doing weight training for four hours a day. They maintained muscle and bone mass and are still doing it as far as I know. They proved that staying fit extends your quality of life by years even when you’re old.

            I stay active by working on cars. Restoring an old car is a terrific work out and you get all of your stretching in at the same time. I build stuff around the house too. Eating as I do means I get more done, work harder and sleep better.

            Since I have the worst case of tinnitus I’ve ever heard of, I don’t fall asleep. I have to be tired enough to pass out. But on this diet, the din of my tinnitus is greatly reduced.

            One of the things you see in old people is that their hands shake. Often from drugs. More often because of the foods and drinks they have. My hands are as steady as a rock and I’m 70.

            I have a long way to go because I can’t exercise as much as I’d like. I have to complete my book and it consumes a lot of time.

            Everything you need to know is in it: A PORTRAIT OF A REALLY, REALLY GOOD SHIT.

            I’m assembling the chapters for proofing this week. Round 2. Round 1 didn’t go so well. My readers were overwhelmed. So this time I’m going to start a Health Restoration Club and have the members pay to read it as they learn.

            One thing to look forward to jj is that once you’ve cleaned up your diet, your sense of taste will come back. You’ll find yourself salivating over cutting up brussels sprouts. When that day comes you’ll be pretty happy.

            The other achievement will be that you’ll most likely resolve your constipation if you ever were as long it isn’t being caused by something else. Lots of people tell me “Oh, I’m not constipated, I go every day.” Big hairy deal is my response to that if they’re eating more than once a day.

            Good luck!

              1. Raw. With food. When I think of it. Remember, I don’t like it. But pasteurized when I can’t get it locally.

                Yes, the book will be a block buster. It will rock the global economy for reasons that will blow people away. Our governments are way, way more dishonest than you think. If I were American, my book would never see the light of day; they’d stop it in the copyright process.

                My stress comes from not being able to write the book fast enough to save people’s lives. Every day that goes by hurts in that respect.

                Back to the book…

    1. John

      “No mention of grains in this, whole or otherwise Fumblefingers. Have I reached genius level yet?
      Claiming grain was a natural dietary staple after that video seems far-fetched to me. That is not to say that no grain was eaten. But since we started out in trees where there are lots of leaves, fruit and meat including insects means grain and tubers were late comers to the table as far as our evolving intestinal tracts are concerned.”

      You do know that wild rice is a grain?

      There are millions of years of evolution. At some stage, yes, our ancestors would not have eaten grains, tubers or legumes.

      But since chimps eat legumes
      http://pages.ucsd.edu/~jmoore/publications/SchoeningerEtAlChimpDietAJP99.pdf

      and tubers
      https://www.pnas.org/content/104/49/19167.full

      and baboons eat grass seeds (grains)
      https://www.academia.edu/6833359/Adaptation_to_grass-eating_in_gelada_baboons

      Consequently, it is highly improbable that these foods have not been part of the human diet since even before our ancestots became fully human/

      There must be a reason why grains, tubers and legumes were features of the first farming efforts by humans – logically, they were grown because their wild ancestors were already long-standing and important parts of the human diet.

      Claims by paleo diet ideologists to the contrary simply ignore such inconvenient evidence.

        1. John Newell,

          Mr. Fumblefingers beat me to it: All grains are seeds. So are legumes. Wild or otherwise. That’s why they can sprout, when provided adequate moisture and temperature. If planted, they could germinate (sprout) and grow into plants.

          1. Yes but not all seeds contain gluten. For me the gluten is what makes grain be grain. It’s the difference between being dangerous and not being dangerous.

            Tom knows what I mean, he’s just baiting me and pushing me to be more definitive or eat my words. Well no reason to eat my words.

            Chia is another example of a plant based mucus but I haven’t seen any research on its adhesive properties. I don’t eat it because as I’ve said, our bodies secrete all the mucus we need and we make it from non-mucus forming foods.

            So if we consider seeds such as poppy, sunflower, sesame, quinoa, raspberry, blackberry, pomegranate, pumpkin, squash we notice they are all small, capable of passing straight through us and remaining viable. So the plant loses little or nothing for having been eaten. It’s a dispersion strategy.

            Nuts make animals work hard to eat them so not all get eaten.

            Avocados and mango seeds are big enough to make a meal of but contain toxins.

            The bottom line is that plants have numerous strategies to ensure future generations.

            Being difficult to metabolize with out harm is how grains (my definition of grains) keep from being eaten by most animals and birds and us.

            As with most things we’ve found a work-around. But grain is having the last laugh because eating grain made us the sickest species on earth. Dominant for now but too sick for most people to enjoy a healthy life for long.

      1. One more thing Tom,

        Have you ever seen a baboon pick its nose and and extract a big slimy blob of snot? I haven’t and I suspect, neither have you.

        Anyone consuming excess mucus from any source, dairy or plant based, ends up with that extra mucus stuck in various places throughout their bodies.

        Not a big deal for us in terms of threat to life. But a huge threat to a baboon since that extra mucus impedes oxygen intake. That impedance is not something a baboon can afford while living with leopards as neighbours. A slow baboon due to respiratory difficulties ends up prematurely as leopard lunch.

        That same trait would have affected our ancestors the same way. We would not be here if we were consuming gluten to any significant extent. You can argue all you want for dietary inclusion of grains but you can’t argue with physics or physiology that has not changed and cannot change. Grain consumption equals metabolic deterioration in humans and all other animals but rodents and some birds. There is lots of evidence to support this and none to tell us that gluten is harmless.

        1. Great story John but the fact is baboons eat wild grass seeds ie grains.

          Yes wild rice is considered a seed because that’s what grains are. Grass seeds.

  5. Are we actually saying that our human ancestors didn’t eat meat?? Why does my common sense tell me that’s not correct?

    A study in Nature makes clear, not only did processing and eating meat come naturally to humans, it’s entirely possible that without an early diet that included generous amounts of animal protein, we wouldn’t even have become human—at least not the modern, verbal, intelligent humans we are

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nature16990

    Our ancestors were carnivorous super-predators –

    http://theconversation.com/our-ancestors-were-carnivorous-super-predators-so-do-we-really-have-a-choice-about-eating-meat-62272

    Meat and Nicotinamide: A Causal Role in Human Evolution, History, and Demographics –

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5417583/

    1. Of course we ate meat. Once the copra is properly analyzed that will be shown. Be patient.

      Meat digests completely so all that would show in the feces would be the undigestible stuff. Grain would be evident if it were there.

      Fresh feces would show chemical signatures revealing that meat was digested. Fossilized fecal evidence will take time to work out.

      This is pretty exciting stuff.

    2. Greg

      ‘Are we actually saying that our human ancestors didn’t eat meat??’

      Greger doesn’t say any such thing. In fact, he explicitly states “So, for millions of years before the first stone tools and evidence of butchering, our ancestors were eating plants.” thus acknowledging that meat has been part of the human diet at least since the invention of stone tools.

      What he is saying is that meat appears to be an evoltionarily late addition to the human diet.

  6. one of my criticisms is that so many appeal to ‘evolution’, the crazy particle to people outlandish godless theory; well for us who believe in the creator God and God of the bible, it goes like this: God appointed man to eat only plants until Noah left the ark at the end of the flood. So the original diet for man was plants, and wow the lifespan of humans was up to 969 years for Methuselah. We see gradual decline in lifespan after the flood when animal products were allowed in man’s diet, often for necessity since food storage was very limited. Also animal sacrifices were needed to show us that we are sinners, needing blood atonement, which ultimately came through our Lord Jesus Christ. So the original design for man’s diet was plants, because God made plants for man’s benefit and health, containing all the beautiful nutrients for optimum function. Neal Barnard should have included this argument in his other appeals like his dentition argument.

    1. An analysis of actual human poo from long ago has zero to do with evolution or its theories. It is analyzing historical fact from actual physical evidence.

      1. Jimbo,

        I agree. This one is about what did people eat during the Paleo period and they found a lot of fiber and it is in response to other theories of what people ate back then. There is a heated debate about the topic and the Paleo poop was examined, in part, to see who was right.

        I would say though, it is hard to know the full value of it. If different cultures are as diverse as they are now, it is hard to extrapolate – unless they have poop from all around the world. Then, we could have a kid’s book. Oh wait, we already have one. Plus, the kids nowadays ask for pooping unicorns and have little poop icons. I refused to get one for my 9-year old. She will not understand it, but when she is 16 and mortified by wanting all of these poop toys, my image will not be passing in front of her eyes.

        Yes, I am glad that they are not inhibited about poop, but the fact that toy manufacturers are seeing it as something to celebrate tells me that we are a little too good at potty training nowadays. Maybe because of all of the meat and dairy intake.

        If you are going to spend 1/2 hour in the bathroom every single day, you might as well have pooping toys.

        1. LOL literally. Pooping toys. Not on my Xmas list.

          I personally think the idea of thinking that during Paleo times people were healthier. Sure they had fewer age related health problems because common infections had the average age span less than 35 years old. If we all had the bodies of people under 35 our entire lives of course our remains would not show age related disorders.

          1. Sorry that doesn’t fly Jimbo.

            The ages cited by archeologists were averages. In a family of 14 children only one or two would have survived until adulthood. But the ages of whole family and every other family were averaged. When you do that you get a really low average life span.

            Then if you do a little thinking of how damned tough it is to live in the wild with zero modern conveniences and nothing at first but sticks and stones for weapons, it doesn’t take long for your native intelligence to step up to the plate and realize that our ancestors could not have survived if the adults only lived until they were 30 years old. They lived until their 70s and were bigger, stronger healthier with perfect teeth and no dentists. Degenerative disease didn’t start until after grain made it to the menu. We were wild animals at that time. If you are a hunter, woodsman, naturalist you know that sick animals don’t last long. There is no such thing as a rule as a sick animal persisting. Or at least that didn’t happen until we humans contaminated the landscape in ways you probably have no clue about.

            Most people make the mistake that living wild means not having to learn much. Sorry to pop that bubble. It takes years and years to learn woodscraft. Only the smartest and luckiest survived. Despite the knuckle draggers you see around you every day, stupidity doesn’t last long in the wild. Stupidity translates into lunch for something else. That’s why the Darwin Award is called the Darwin Award. Those people didn’t live long enough to procreate.

            By contrast, living now with our safety net means that knuckle draggers are proliferating.

            Another reason people think our ancestors collectively died young is because most skeletons are found in caves. In my opinion, caves were often used as hospitals. So sick people died in caves. Everyone else was killed making a living. Their bones didn’t survive because they were eaten.

            I’ve had arthritis since the age of 7 so don’t be thinking you have to be old to have it.

            Age related disorders mostly come from ingesting grain, whole or refined, dairy in all of its forms, sugar other than in trace amounts, salt, alcohol and smoke.

            Don’t be blabbering at me about grain. Grain was not on the menu at all for most of our history. We didn’t evolve to eat grain. Apart from fungus, microbes and some insects, only rodents and birds have the necessary bodily modifications to consume grain with impunity. We don’t have them. That tells you something despite Dr. Greger’s assertions to the contrary. So we were much bigger, much stronger and much healthier than we are now without grain.

              1. Evolution. We’ll have to wait and see what the copra analysis says. I don’t disagree with tubers. Tubers don’t have a glue component. There is nothing to say a food cannot have been added late to the menu that doesn’t cause harm. Grains that contain a glue component do cause harm. The evidence of that is in the dentition. No mention of seafood in the fecal analysis either but we did begin eating it at some point and no harm caused. Same with shellfish.

                Gluten causes all sorts of damage right through the human body, not just the teeth and the colon. Significant intake of gluten shows up clearly in the fossil record. So maybe we’re splitting hairs. Maybe we’re arguing about an element as opposed to a category. There isn’t enough science done or at least not enough that I’ve been able to access that talks about the interface between human secreted insoluble mucus, plant based insoluble mucus and bovine insoluble secreted mucus. Those are three sources of mucus, two of which our bodies don’ t need or want that are difficult to eliminate and that cause blockages.

                With those foreign sources of mucus in us in any quantity, many people have constipation and other symptoms. Without it, they don’t. The science on this if you really look at it is like reading a whodunnit after they did it. So well known consequences no one wants to be the first to tell the public about. Even me as it turns out. Or at least I’m hesitating for the moment. In fact it’s like having stepped on the plunger of a land mine and being rooted to the spot. There is way more to this than we’re talking about.

                1. John Newell,

                  What is this “glue component” in grains that you mention? And what is the “harm” that it causes on dentition, as you claim? And what is the evidence of this harm?

                  And what is “plant based insoluble mucus?” I’ve never heard of such a thing in plants. In animals: “Mucus (/ˈmjuːkəs/ MEW-kəs) is a polymer. It is a slippery aqueous secretion produced by, and covering, mucous membranes. It is typically produced from cells found in mucous glands, although it may also originate from mixed glands, which contain both serous and mucous cells. It is a viscous colloid containing inorganic salts, antimicrobial enzymes (such as lysozymes), immunoglobulins, and glycoproteins such as lactoferrin[1] and mucins, which are produced by goblet cells in the mucous membranes and submucosal glands. Mucus serves to protect epithelial cells in the linings of the respiratory, digestive, and urogenital systems, and structures in the visual, and auditory systems from pathogenic fungi, bacteria[2] and viruses. Most of the mucus in the body is produced in the gastrointestinal tract.” (Wikipedia) So, mucus is a collection of compounds, actually fairly complex.

                  1. The mucus in grain is gluten. It is activated when mixed with water.

                    If you’re old enough you will remover that the original wallpaper paste was made with flour and water.

                    Gluten translates from the Latin to paste in English and that for me equates with glue.

                    That form of paste/glue causes havoc in the small intestine.

                    Our secreted mucus does not mix well with grain based mucus. And yes it does get past stomach acid when consumed in sufficient amounts.

                    Until it was processed it was anecdotal in our diets. As Tom noted, baboons eat seeds. But there is nothing to say they are eating anything with gluten in it. At least not yet. Studies on baboon diets are superficial to say the least. If you can even call them studies. More observations than anything.

                    Anyway, gluten is what sticks to the gum line when you eat grain. No avoiding it. Possibly ancient wheat did not have much if any gluten. The bottom line is that consuming grain causes gum disease 100% of the time if you don’t have a dental hygienist to scrape the plaque off periodically.

                    The plaque becomes crystalline and eventually cuts the gums. When that happens you have gingivitis. That progresses to periodontitis – your gums recede and your teeth fall out.

                    The fossil record shows this conclusively.

                    Before grain teeth are perfect. After grain consumption starts it’s a dental disaster right up until today.

                    Dairy consumption makes it much worse.

                    But Gus’s what? If you are not a dairy consumer but are a grain consumer but do have gum disease today, if you eliminate grain gum disease stops in its tracks.

                    This assumes you are eating real Paleo, my version without grain, sugar, caffeine, alcohol, smoke or anything else Paleo people could not have eaten.

                    When you eat like this your fat disappears pretty fast and your excess mucus goes too.

                    No picking your nose. There is nothing to pick. No farts because nothing in you is fermenting.

                    So no sleep apnea either. Or colds. Inflammation recedes because you’ve stopped feeding the inflammation. At gritstone the inflammation becomes more acute because it only has you as a food source. But shortly your tissues shrug it off.

                    How far this goes I can’t say yet because I’m still doing it. You don’t eliminate a lifetime of gastronomic stupidity in s few months. I expect the transition to take another six years if I can resist temptation.

                    The other issue with gluten is that due to its stickiness, it invites constipation which abbeys inflammation which causes or is linked to at least 55 serious degenerative diseases. Only 55 because lots of diseases exist that I don’t know about yet. Besides 55 ought to be enough to convince anyone to stop eating grain.

                  2. Another thing that has to be taken into consideration is that what we call grains now are not at all what was growing wild 300,000 years ago. Or even 20,000 years ago.

                    1. John

                      You wrote
                      ‘Another thing that has to be taken into consideration is that what we call grains now are not at all what was growing wild 300,000 years ago. Or even 20,000 years ago.’

                      So what? Neither are meat animals, eggs, farmed fish or pretty much anything else we eat nowadays.

                      In any case, this whole argument is based on a fallacy – the appeal to antiquity fallacy.

                      Just because our ancestors ate certain foods does not mean that those foods promote healthy longevity It just means that they provided enough calories to help our ancestors stay alive.

                    2. No. Our ancestors stayed alive, were much healthier and stronger than us. Didn’t have the Dental issues grain consumers did and all of that adds up to them doing something we are not doing and have not done for centuries.

                      One of those things is not eating grain with gluten in it.

                      Another is not much fat. Beef and pork meat is loaded with fat throughout. The difference between wild game and domestic meat of any kind is vast. That’s why hunting is still popular.

                      Not much sugar. Honey was rare and seasonal. Other forms of sugar were too. Fruits were much smaller than today.

                      No processed food.

                      No tooth brushes. Pretty hard to claim gluten doesn’t cause gum disease and periodontitis. It damned well does.

                      It also is directly causal for respiratory diseases that primitive man could not have survived. And ear infections. Snoring, sleep apnea, constipation.

                      Apparently you have never been constipated Tom. Good for you. There are 55 degenerative diseases caused by or linked to grain consumption. Constipation was first described in writing 600 years ago and doctors have yet to deal with it successfully and correctly. It cannot be done if grain is on your menu.

                      Most Americans are constipated. Constipation and Diabetes Type 2 are partnered most of the time, heart disease and arthritis too.

                      No booze or polluted air for The ancients.

                      Clean water to drink and that’s it.

                      As far as I’m concerned Paleo man stopped being Paleo man once grain was on the menu and degenerative dentition was evident. Whether that was 14,000 years ago or 105,000 years ago, makes no difference.

                      Glue consumption changed everything. Fire was an added benefit.

                      Again I have no issues with tubers. They are not adhesive.

                      Potatoes, tomatoes, eggplants, peppers and citrus fruits are inflammatory though lemons and limes are not. They are astringents though and essential if you have to have grain dairy or animal fat in your meals.

                      Lemons and limes break up mucus.

            1. John

              You are still invested in this ridiculous ‘no grain’ fantasy I see.

              This old-fashioned belief was debunked years ago
              https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/humans-feasting-on-grains-for-at-least-100000-years/

              But 105,000 years is the merest blink of an eyelid.

              If savannah dwelling baboons consume grains, why would not our mst ancient ancestors have been consuming them? Well, they were

              ‘An analysis of the vanilla and cinnamon carbon in A. afarensis from the middle Pliocene (3.0 to 3.7 million years ago) shows that this hominin had already shifted to a C4-based diet. Jonathan Wynn, a geologist at the University of South Florida, and colleagues analyzed 20 fossilized teeth of A. afarensis from the Hadar region of Ethiopia. Although there was significant variability in the proportion of C4 plants consumed, on average, A. afarensis consumed significantly more C4 plants than its recent ancestor Australopithecus anamensis. These hominins were thus already eating grain in an adaptation for life on the savannah, Cerling said.’
              http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2013/06/03/even-our-ancestors-never-really-ate-the-paleo-diet/#.XYdsRygzbIU

              Of course, this has all been pointed out to you before. You just ignore it and keep making these silly counter-factual assertions over and over again.

              The evidence doesn’t go away just because you ignore it. Even if it contradicts Paleo Diet ideology.

              1. I know about that. What I’m not seeing is impact evidence. Dental records. There is just no way anyone can consume gluten in any quantity and not sustain dental destruction without a dentist to stop it. I have yet to see how baboons can get away with consuming seeds containing gluten. Oh, wait, there is a record of captive baboons flossing. Unfortunately flossing does not save anyone or any thing from the unmistakable damage caused by ingesting plant based glue.

                I have not been able to find a single study that goes beyond the genetics of baboon dentition. Their dentition is unsuited for consuming processed flour products as their fangs would be early casualties. There is no proof that the seeds that baboons eat have a gluten component. Wild rice does not. Baboon research available is mostly about a baboon who had a pig heart transplanted into it. So mostly useless science from our perspective. And so far all of the writing about baboons eating grains equates to the same thing. It’s one thing to say baboons eat seeds, another to say there is no health impact from seeds that contain a glue component. So no evidence to say that baboons have ever eaten grain as opposed to seeds.

                So telling me baboons eat seeds is about as meaningful as telling me humans eat the tops off of bic pens.

                1. ‘baboons have ever eaten grain as opposed to seeds’

                  John … if you knew what you were talking about, you would know that grains are the seeds of grasses.

      1. Laughing.

        I do take a supplement.

        But I also do know that Christians do believe the original design for mankind was eating plant food.

        There is that whole fall of man where the world becomes cursed and people even start eating each other, but that is what we believe was not God’s design and that is part of the part which we believe is getting reconciled.

        If bible teachers are right and we are somewhere in the end times, then, 1/3 of the fish in the sea will be poisoned, so maybe it won’t be me needing to adapt my behavior.

        1. To the people who are offended by Christianity. There are an estimated 2.18 billion Christians worldwide, and we just are what we are and process how we process.

          Surely, it is better if we all learn to get along.

          1. And to the Christians, when Dr Greger says that mankind was designed to be Whole Food Plant-Based and that is also what the Bible says, that is the time to high five him.

            When I was watching Game Changers, I was thinking about Daniel in the Bible who was taken captive and was supposed to eat sweets and meats and he asked to be permitted to go Whole Food Plant-Based and there was a test set up to see whether he would waste away but he got stronger.

            That it what I think about when I here people’s stories. They all match what I already believe, including that Mankind is going to mess up the earth and we are supposed to be good stewards who use wisdom and compassion in everything we do.

            Yes, people with brain problems don’t always get everything right, but Dr Greger is such a good host and I want to honor him for all he does.

            1. Sorry Deb, man was not designed. To be designed as per the bible denies evolution.

              There is nothing in the bible about evolution that I’ve ever seen. Yet we all know that there were at least 16 different hominid species before homo sapiens. We also know that the different species of hominids intermixed. There is nothing in the Bible about the Neanderthals mixing with Europeans but we know they did. We know that Genesis is a fabrication and Noah’s Ark could not have held two of every animal on earth and on and on.

              We also know that man even 10,000 years ago did not look like us. We evolved. Our faces are now a completely different shape due our mushy diets.

              Americans think Jesus looked like a red headed Irishman who looked like my friend Dave. That’s how far fetched it all is.

            2. In 1 Timothy 4:3–4, Paul said that in the last days deceiving spirits will command people to abstain from certain foods—foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving. This verse is one reason why I don’t prohibit any food that God created for food, including healthy meat and dairy. Also, In Romans 14:1–2, the apostle Paul talks about not judging a person who eats meat. In Acts 10, we find that Peter had a vision in which God instructed him to kill and eat meat. In Genesis 3:21: “The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. Covering human private parts with fig leaves for modesty and then keeping them in place is not practical. Animal skins work much better. God slaughtered one of His precious animals to cover mans’ sin. By the way, God used this as a picture symbol of Jesus one day giving His life on the cross.

              Man has eaten meat ever since. The Apostle Paul was in the process of settling a dispute between those Christians that he identified as “weaker brothers” who were refraining from eating meat that had earlier been offered to an idol, and those who had no pangs of conscience about eating idol-offered meat. Paul counseled both groups to eat the meat and not worry about it: “Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, for, ‘The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.’” (1 Corinthians 10:25-26).

          2. Yes, well, the other two thirds of the planet’s population think that christianity is just another cockamamie religion like a thousand others. For that matter, many christians would argue that roman catholicism isn’t a christian religion at all, which would actually bring the total number of supposed adherents down considerably.

            The point though is that hindus, buddhists, daoists, jews, moslems, atheists etc don’t go around gratuitously pushing their beliefs in the middele of discussions about nutrition science. And evolution is science, so is the fact that the earth is round – whatever science-denying individuals claim.

            I kniw that the site’s comment etiquette requests us to ignore such nonsense but nobody wants to see partisan twaddle appearing to win an argument by default.

        2. All of the fish will be poisoned. The 1/3 point was passed years ago. There is not a single fresh body of water in America other than possibly some ponds that do not have cancerous fish in them. Contamination does not pick and choose.

    2. “Also animal sacrifices were needed to show us that we are sinners, needing blood atonement, which ultimately came through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

      “and wow the lifespan of humans was up to 969 years” – peter droubay

      YIKES…!

        1. If you take your blinders off while reading you would also find the shortest book in the New Testament is a letter from Paul to a Christian slave owner about owning his Christian slave. And Paul does not say “Christians don’t own people” Paul talks about HOW Christians own people. Most ignore what the bible says about slavery because the bible got slavery WRONG, the easiest moral question that humanity has ever faced. If it got that so wrong you can believe it got a lot else wrong too.

          The King James version of bible was completed in 1611 by 8 members of the Church of England. FACT

          Why else do you think the biblical Jesus only managed to find friends in the middle east with the common names of Brits? Peter, James, Matthew, John, Luke, etc…

          They were (and still are) no original texts to translate. The oldest manuscripts we have were written down hundreds of years after the last alleged ‘apostle’ would have died. There are over 8000 of these old manuscripts, with no two alike.

          The King James translators used none of these, anyway. Instead, they edited previous translations to create a version their king and parliament would approve.

          So, 21st century Christians believe the ‘word of god’ is a book edited in the 17th century from 16th century translations of 8000 contradictory copies of 4th century scrolls that claim to be copies of lost letters written in the 1st century.

    1. It’s also about getting more people to eat a healthy diet. So pointing out to people of faith that a WFPB diet is defined as the original diet in the Bible is not a bad thing. I don’t agree with all of Peters’ comments, but I feel he has a right to comment. I understand your hostility even more since reading “The Oracle.”

      1. Joe Vegan,

        I have said the same thing to many Christians. It is the original and final diet in the Bible and it is there in the middle, too. It’s all good.

        I am a Christian and I just thank you for writing your sentences in a balanced, reflective way.

  7. There is less and less land per person. The farms can not feed everybody on plant based diet
    To get max calories from sq foot we have to grow soybeans/corn and feed them to the aminals in cages.
    The health problems can be solved by science and medicine

    1. Well, right now most of the farmlands are for feeding the animals which people are eating, so probably that would have to shift toward feeding the people.

      If the farms doing dairy and meat switch to plants, plus if all those processed foods plants switched to WFPB, it it might be a few generations before those sentences would come back, but I know that the churches I used to go to used to have people talk about people growing their own gardens. Yes, I was part of a few different types of churches, but the ones which considered themselves prophetic did talk about food supply in the future and did talk about gardening and the more mainstream churches also did have people into gardening because they feed people at soup kitchens and there was always poor people who needed food. One of the churches adopted a low income housing project and planted organic fruits and vegetables and flowers. Others did similar things with the inner city.

      1. My coworker who isn’t a Christian still volunteers at a church in his town which feeds the poor people of the town once per week.

        My old church did the same thing. They switched pastors and I don’t believe they do anymore, but a lot of them do.

        1. Many of the churches still give bags of food to people and I will tell you that people made fun of it because it was potatoes, beans, rice, tomatoes and other of the bulk foods, but now I am thinking they just need a cookbook.

          1. They even still have their own food distribution. I can’t remember the name. Angel something. I think it is a way to buy in bulk together to lower prices, because they are feeding people.

            I don’t know if that is still in place. Passionate people do things like that.

            The Salvation Army has their own and they do help poor people. A lot of churches give bags of food to the poor, but The Salvation Army is organized for it.

          1. YR,

            I know that I am probably verging on being preachy and I am not meaning to.

            True Christianity cares about all people and values each and every person.

            We are commanded to love our enemies.

            I am just trying to bring it back into this community, what our place is.

            Every church I have been a part of – every single one – feeds the poor, stocks the food pantries, works at soup kitchens, sends money and food and school supplies and medical supplies to third world churches and sends people to work there. We have soup kitchens and homeless shelters in just about every city. We plant gardens and give bags of groceries to the poor and make food for widows and take in orphans and gather drug addicts off the street and get them clean without charging them a penny. We bring them blankets and water and winter clothing. We have missionaries all over the world whose calling is to love the people who were thrown out by societies. They literally are gathering children out of garbage dumps and have teams of people holding them and just breathing life into them until they want to live again. We reach out to prostitutes and are persecuted around the world for our belief systems, and, yes, people like Hitler quoted the Bible when he did atrocities, but mostly Christians die, rather than being killed. Voice of the Martyrs tells their stories where Christians have had people try to cut their heads off with machetes and they go back and minister to them after. People like Heidi Baker are out on the streets having stones thrown at them and they open their arms wide and take the stones and speak love to the people throwing them. I say it because we are part of feeding particularly the entire world’s poor population and we send out doctors to do free surgeries and build hospitals and we serve a function in the world and there aren’t a lot of groups volunteering to go into war zones when everybody else is running away or to go into natural disaster areas and pick up dead bodies or figure out how to get clean water and the Christians have always been doing that function in the world. Not saying that there aren’t other charities and governments doing it. There are, but still if Christians suddenly get raptured up (laughing) the job of feeding the poor worldwide is already such a big one.

            1. Yes, I know. I have a Christian (Catholic) background. Definitely good folks, but you have to wonder if they sometimes do all these charitable things out of genuine “love” or are they mainly trying to garner themselves a bunch of brownie points so they get a higher place in “heaven.” :-)

              I don’t label myself as anything anymore days. I do yoga exercises and meditate, if that means anything. Answers are within us.

    1. And that is worldwide. We send things to other countries and most of it is in line with Whole Food Plant-Based.

      There is one disaster story where someone got PopTarts to send Heidi Baker a whole ship of PopTarts and the people in the desperately poor African nation ate it and everybody got sick, but she comes to America regularly and started adding, some of you need to learn what real food is.

    1. Yes, in 1982 the F-PLAN DIET was published. It is the book that jump started the entire field of managing your own health. Yes there were other great books before Audrey Eyton’s but none could compare to the impact this book had.

        1. Fumbles, thank you for the links. I was perusing the comments section of that older Burkitt vid, and came across a comment of yours http://m.nautil.us/issue/30/identity/how-the-western-diet-has-derailed-our-evolution How very interesting!!

          And for mothers-to-be perhaps very important. They took mice, put them on a western horrible diet, and their microbiome suffered horribly. After some weeks, they changed the diet, and saw that the microbiome of these animals did recover, for the most part. BUT! when pregnant females were fed the western diet, the offspring were born, and then were fed good healthy food… their microbiomes did not recover. How scary is that?

          I am convinced that the biggest problem we have in the west is addiction – all kinds, of which bad food is just one.

            1. Thanks Barb

              It is perhaps worth pointing out, for John’s benefit, the discussion in that article about why mucus is vitally important.

              ‘Years ago, while still a post-doc, Sonnenburg discovered that something very odd occurs when those MAC-loving microbes go hungry. They start eating mucus. “This is the stage where you say, ‘Oh my God. They’re eating me.’ ” Sonnenburg said. “You can see it.”
              We need that mucus. It maintains a necessary distance between us and our microbes. And as it erodes with a poor diet, the lining of the gut becomes irritated. Microbial detritus starts leaking through. One of the more striking discoveries in recent years is that you can see this stuff, called endotoxin, increase in the bloodstream immediately after feeding people a sugary, greasy, fast-food meal. The immune system responds as if under threat, leading to the “simmering inflammation” the Sonnenburgs think drives so many Western diseases.

              We need inflammation to combat infections, or aid tissue repair. But chronic inflammation—a danger signal blaring indefinitely—can lead to all manner of cellular dysfunction, contributing to many degenerative diseases.”
              http://nautil.us/issue/30/identity/how-the-western-diet-has-derailed-our-evolution

                1. ‘Tom you are full of crap’

                  That’s because I eat a high fibre plant based diet.

                  I offer evidence to support my statements. All you do is make assertion after assertion and make up just-so stories to support those assertions. Simply put, most of your ‘facts’ don’t pan out when I try to fact-check them..

                  1. That’s because I’m ahead of the curve. The work is mine not someone else’s.

                    A lot of stuff that I was saying in the 80s is now accepted science but I had just as many and ruder detractors back then than I do now. More of the same ever since.

                    But the people who benefit from what I say never complain.

              1. You probably won’t see my last post Tom because in it I described the state of your intestinal tract.

                If what you said about mucus was accurate I would be dead. I am living proof of what I say. I’m not inventing anything.

                Your ideas and that of whoever the crackpot scientists are that you cited are completely delusional.

                And no you can’t look this stuff up because scientists have not gotten there yet. As per usual I’m about 20 years ahead of them.

                1. John

                  I personally.didn’t say anyting about mucus. I merely posted an extract from an article about dietary fibre, that discussed mucus

                  As I’ve observed before, it is possible that you are an unsung genius. But it’s far more likely that you are just another very vocal example of the Dunning Kruger Effect.

        2. I didn’t say it was. I said the F-Plan Diet effectively launched the trend towards self help restoration. That’s ALL I meant no rebuttal required on your part.

  8. Hi everyone.

    At first let me thank you for all your amazing work. You know that it’s been helping so many people in the whole world.

    So, I just saw a video about a prestigious cardiologist that was vegetarian but supposedly discovered the solution for leaky gut, and he has a whole speech about lectins that cause it in whole bread, tomatoes and eggplants. Is that true? He could actually prove it?

    And what about the problems of white bread?
    And the milk that he consumed (or still does, I couldn’t understand)?
    It was so supposedly scientific that I was so confused. Just because I actually have adult skin acne and bloating gut almost everyday, and I am vegan and mostly eating whole foods.

    Do you have some clarification about this, please?

    The link is:

    https://thenewgutfix.com/eu/

    My best regards for all!

    1. I listened to enough to know this guy is in my opinion a scam artist. Leaky Gut is verbal dodge for the illness known as Candidiasis. A condition most often caused by doctors themselves from prescribing antibiotics and their patients following directions and taking them. You don’t get Candidiasis from taking antibiotics occasionally. You get it after years of such abuse combined with a diet very high in sugar. Even then it isn’t easy to get. You have to really abuse yourself to get it.

      In my case I had 30 years of repeated antibiotic use at least four times annually. Even so, I still didn’t have Candidiasis. What put me over the edge was when I bought a juicer and tried to repeat what the Juiceman did. Didn’t work for me. I soon had kidney stones. Mine couldn’t pass. They had to be surgically removed twice. Then I tried a mostly fruit diet along with the juicer. That was terrific until it wasn’t. That gave me Candidiasis. Unfortunately I also started drinking beer around the same time. In a very short time I had all of the symptoms a man can get. I eventually found out from a book what I had and started treating myself with probiotics. What a waste of money that was. Eventually I managed to keep it at bay for years until I finally worked up the nerve to eat sauerkraut. That was the end of the Candidiasis.

      The point of all this is that i takes a lot of abused to get Candidiasis. No doubt lots of people have it because their high sugar diets. I expect it’s at epidemic proportions by now. I predicted it would be in 1995. It’s taken four years longer than the 20 I expected.

      Anyway, for this guy to be saying Leaky Gut starts in the gut tells me he has no clue. It always starts after a bad decision about what you put into your body.

      I’ve said a lot about doctors this doctor says over and over and over and over. No most doctors don’t know much about how degenerative diseases happen. Nothing he said convinced my he’s learned anything beyond fleecing people in a less physically and mentally demanding way.

      I could be wrong. I turned it off by accident a long way into the video and nothing will convince me to turn it back on.

    2. Rui,

      He isn’t a cardiologist, he was a surgeon who did transplants.

      Now, he makes a fortune selling supplements.

      My friend has been following him until recently. She lost weight, but ended up with the worst labs her doctor has ever seen. They are still trying to figure out what she has. Out of control Diabetes is one thing. It didn’t bring health to her.

      1. Rui,

        As far as vegan acne goes, there are sites about that.

        They talk about refined carbs, bot a wide enough variety of plant foods, too many B-12 fortified foods or too high a supplement, food allergies, oily foods, nutritional deficiencies.

    3. It’s really a shame when a cardiologist of all people write a book that so convincingly tricks the public so he can sell supplements. Please review these comments by Dr. Greger and esteemed scientist Dr. Colin Campbell on this sham:
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dr-gundrys-the-plant-paradox-is-wrong/
      https://nutritionstudies.org/the-plant-paradox-by-steven-grundy-md-commentary/
      I’m glad you weren’t hoodwinked as so many have been. Keep viewing here to learn what science really says.

  9. John, Mr Fumblefingers and Deb,
    Thank you so much for your replies and your help.
    I couldn’t believe him, but he claims those studies resulted from high quality science. I don’t know if that’s true, but something tells me that it isn’t.

    I think that the dairy and the white bread (sugar) can cause or worsen those gut problems and consequently systemic problems..

    Once again, thank you!!!

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