The Effects of Radiation Leaking from Microwave Ovens

The Effects of Radiation Leaking from Microwave Ovens
4.47 (89.46%) 74 votes

Simple kitchen experiments can confirm that microwaves leak from microwave ovens during operation, but do they pose a health risk?

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

About 20 people a day end up in American emergency rooms from “microwave oven-related injuries.” A few from microwave popcorn steam, overheated “hair removal wax,” nearly one-a-day from exploding eggs; but most are from overheated water. See, when you boil water on the stove, “bubbles rise from the bottom, and as they burst…, the excess heat is dissipated. Water heated [in] a microwave oven [though may] not bubble,” and so, can get even hotter than normal boiling temperature. Then if you sprinkle in some powder, “tiny air bubbles are carried into the [liquid],” and can expand into steam bubbles, and erupt onto your hand. The FDA warns to be careful when trying to boil water in a microwave—particularly in a “shiny container [or] more than once,” or for too long, or when not letting it cool down a bit first, or when dumping something into it.

Most “microwave-related burns in young children occur” when the child reaches in to grab something hot. Toddlers “as young as 18 months can open a microwave.” So, some public health advocates have recommended that instead of just warning people to let stuff cool first for a few minutes, there should be some kind of door lock that doesn’t let you even open the thing for two minutes after it stops—which kind of undermines the whole point of quick microwave convenience. A better idea may be to just kind of childproof the door, so you have to like turn a knob while pressing a button to pop the door open.

When people express concerns over microwave oven safety, though, they are probably not thinking about exploding eggs or hair wax injuries. They’re concerned about the microwave radiation itself. Microwave oven manufacturers caution people not “to operate [the] oven with the door open.” But, there are interlocking safety switches that should turn it off automatically when you open the door, unless, you’re stuck inside one. God, I couldn’t even read that article.

There is some leakage of microwave radiation, though, during operation. There’s this famous radio telescope scanning the cosmos for extraterrestrial civilizations. “Fast radio bursts” were detected. A sign of “extragalactic” intelligence? Nope, turns out ET was a microwave in the staff cafeteria that the telescope caught when it was just at the right angle, right when someone yanked the door open.

You don’t need a radio telescope to see it, though. A “cheap way of detecting microwave oven leakage is to [just] place a computer monitor next to the oven,” and you can see “disturbances on the screen.” Or, just use the microwave detector you have in your pocket or purse right now: cell phones. Look, if microwaves can leak out, then they should also be able to leak in. The wavelengths are actually quite similar in size, though obviously different intensity between microwave ovens and cell phones. So, stick your phone in the microwave—DO NOT TURN THE MICROWAVE ON, but close the door, and see if you can call it. When you hear it ringing, that’s confirmation that microwave-type radiation can leak in and out.

And indeed, you can just directly measure the leakage during operation—though nearly all within prescribed safety limits. And, once you move the detectors like a foot away from the door, the levels fall nearly to zero, even if there’s like some food particle or something caught in the door seal. Now, the industry will tell you that “there has never been any verified case of [human] injury due to exposure from [radiation] leakage from microwave ovens.” This is from a guy at Raytheon, though, where the microwave oven was invented, after an engineer in a radar lab noticed the chocolate bar in his pocket had melted.

There has been the rare case report of a malfunctioning machine that didn’t turn off when the door was open, and someone burned themselves, but this was after her hand was in there for like a full minute. Raytheon engineers talk about how they “inadvertently” exposed themselves lots of times to open, active microwaves. They get a warm tummy; they feel a little “transient warmth” when they pass their arm in and out of the oven. But, no big deal, they say.

In fact, the same microwaves used in microwave ovens are “the same…used [for] medical microwave diathermy,” which physical therapists use like a hot pack to treat like rotator cuff injuries. Now, making the claim that, “Well, if the medical profession uses it, it must be safe” isn’t exactly the strongest argument, but does help put things in perspective. “When the heating of people is not deliberate,…it [may be] desirable to limit exposure.”

Is that “minor leakage” during operation anything to worry about, though? In other words, are there non-thermal effects of microwaves? If it doesn’t burn you, can it still hurt you? The Soviets thought so, irradiating everyone in the U.S. Embassy in Moscow for decades.

In terms of microwave ovens, though, the only report I could find was from over 40 years ago: a case report of a woman who developed cataracts after using a leaky microwave oven. But, that’s all there was, just this kind of circumstantial evidence correlation. Lots of people get cataracts; lots of people use microwaves; there has to be more that. The only follow-up study I could find was this Turkish study published a few decades later—but, it was on rats.

Now, they did end up finding some superficial eye abnormalities on the rats placed next to the microwave, but they were like right up against the door, and people don’t tend to stick their faces right up to the glass while things are cooking. So, even if the same thing happened to human eyes, this study might be of limited relevance. But, it can’t hurt to stand back from the microwave while it’s on. Otherwise, microwaves should be safe, unless…you drop it on your foot.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Icons created by Ben Davis, Musmellow, Mr. Balind, Milky-Digital Innovation and Aya Sofya from The Noun Project.

Image credit: Jeff Eaton via flickr. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

About 20 people a day end up in American emergency rooms from “microwave oven-related injuries.” A few from microwave popcorn steam, overheated “hair removal wax,” nearly one-a-day from exploding eggs; but most are from overheated water. See, when you boil water on the stove, “bubbles rise from the bottom, and as they burst…, the excess heat is dissipated. Water heated [in] a microwave oven [though may] not bubble,” and so, can get even hotter than normal boiling temperature. Then if you sprinkle in some powder, “tiny air bubbles are carried into the [liquid],” and can expand into steam bubbles, and erupt onto your hand. The FDA warns to be careful when trying to boil water in a microwave—particularly in a “shiny container [or] more than once,” or for too long, or when not letting it cool down a bit first, or when dumping something into it.

Most “microwave-related burns in young children occur” when the child reaches in to grab something hot. Toddlers “as young as 18 months can open a microwave.” So, some public health advocates have recommended that instead of just warning people to let stuff cool first for a few minutes, there should be some kind of door lock that doesn’t let you even open the thing for two minutes after it stops—which kind of undermines the whole point of quick microwave convenience. A better idea may be to just kind of childproof the door, so you have to like turn a knob while pressing a button to pop the door open.

When people express concerns over microwave oven safety, though, they are probably not thinking about exploding eggs or hair wax injuries. They’re concerned about the microwave radiation itself. Microwave oven manufacturers caution people not “to operate [the] oven with the door open.” But, there are interlocking safety switches that should turn it off automatically when you open the door, unless, you’re stuck inside one. God, I couldn’t even read that article.

There is some leakage of microwave radiation, though, during operation. There’s this famous radio telescope scanning the cosmos for extraterrestrial civilizations. “Fast radio bursts” were detected. A sign of “extragalactic” intelligence? Nope, turns out ET was a microwave in the staff cafeteria that the telescope caught when it was just at the right angle, right when someone yanked the door open.

You don’t need a radio telescope to see it, though. A “cheap way of detecting microwave oven leakage is to [just] place a computer monitor next to the oven,” and you can see “disturbances on the screen.” Or, just use the microwave detector you have in your pocket or purse right now: cell phones. Look, if microwaves can leak out, then they should also be able to leak in. The wavelengths are actually quite similar in size, though obviously different intensity between microwave ovens and cell phones. So, stick your phone in the microwave—DO NOT TURN THE MICROWAVE ON, but close the door, and see if you can call it. When you hear it ringing, that’s confirmation that microwave-type radiation can leak in and out.

And indeed, you can just directly measure the leakage during operation—though nearly all within prescribed safety limits. And, once you move the detectors like a foot away from the door, the levels fall nearly to zero, even if there’s like some food particle or something caught in the door seal. Now, the industry will tell you that “there has never been any verified case of [human] injury due to exposure from [radiation] leakage from microwave ovens.” This is from a guy at Raytheon, though, where the microwave oven was invented, after an engineer in a radar lab noticed the chocolate bar in his pocket had melted.

There has been the rare case report of a malfunctioning machine that didn’t turn off when the door was open, and someone burned themselves, but this was after her hand was in there for like a full minute. Raytheon engineers talk about how they “inadvertently” exposed themselves lots of times to open, active microwaves. They get a warm tummy; they feel a little “transient warmth” when they pass their arm in and out of the oven. But, no big deal, they say.

In fact, the same microwaves used in microwave ovens are “the same…used [for] medical microwave diathermy,” which physical therapists use like a hot pack to treat like rotator cuff injuries. Now, making the claim that, “Well, if the medical profession uses it, it must be safe” isn’t exactly the strongest argument, but does help put things in perspective. “When the heating of people is not deliberate,…it [may be] desirable to limit exposure.”

Is that “minor leakage” during operation anything to worry about, though? In other words, are there non-thermal effects of microwaves? If it doesn’t burn you, can it still hurt you? The Soviets thought so, irradiating everyone in the U.S. Embassy in Moscow for decades.

In terms of microwave ovens, though, the only report I could find was from over 40 years ago: a case report of a woman who developed cataracts after using a leaky microwave oven. But, that’s all there was, just this kind of circumstantial evidence correlation. Lots of people get cataracts; lots of people use microwaves; there has to be more that. The only follow-up study I could find was this Turkish study published a few decades later—but, it was on rats.

Now, they did end up finding some superficial eye abnormalities on the rats placed next to the microwave, but they were like right up against the door, and people don’t tend to stick their faces right up to the glass while things are cooking. So, even if the same thing happened to human eyes, this study might be of limited relevance. But, it can’t hurt to stand back from the microwave while it’s on. Otherwise, microwaves should be safe, unless…you drop it on your foot.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Icons created by Ben Davis, Musmellow, Mr. Balind, Milky-Digital Innovation and Aya Sofya from The Noun Project.

Image credit: Jeff Eaton via flickr. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Doctor's Note

My last video, Are Microwaves Safe? talks about some of the other indirect hazards, in case you missed it.

What about cell phone radiation? Check out my videos Does Cell Phone Radiation Cause Cancer? and Cell Phone Brain Tumor Risk?

The greatest radiation exposure may be from diagnostic medical radiation, though. See Cancer Risk from CT Scan Radiation and Do Dental X-Rays Cause Brain Tumors?

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

181 responses to “The Effects of Radiation Leaking from Microwave Ovens

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  1. I don’t normally put my face up against the door but I’ve done that on occasion so this shouldn’t be an issue for me. Its been my understanding that microwaves use non-ionizing radiation which is nowhere near as harmful as ionizing radiation so I don’t think the leakage from microwaves would be very dangerous.

    This will give a lot of people peace of mind though, because even those who are still a little concerned can just stand a foot away and completely avoid the leakage.




    12
    1. This does not give me any piece of mind at all – in this video Dr. Greger simply ignored research on microwaves, such as the NTP study, showing the damaging effects of long-term exposure to microwaves at non-thermal levels. While I occasionally have some differences with Dr. Greger on nutritional research, I generally seem a big fan of what he does, but in this video he simply trivializes and makes fun of an important issue, his attitude summed up by a Lego in a radiation suit, and while failing to mention, or refute, research indicating more subtle and damaging long term effects than dropping a microwave on your foot.

      I DO have a problem with microwave LEAKAGE from microwave ovens, from lot farther away then having my face pressed against the door. As yet I have not measured any, including new ones with presumably intact seals, that did not emit levels high enough that even 10 feet away exposes the whole body of the user to greater microwaves exposure than an iPhone does in a bad reception area held next to your head. And if you stand next to the oven, looking in the window, your exposure goes up by several magnitudes. If Dr. Greger does not accept this, I suggest that he get a good microwave detector – I use the Extech 480836 EMF Strength Meter 3.5GHz RF – and “put it to the test.”

      And just because microwaves do not have enough energy to cause ionization directly does NOT make them harmless. In 2016 the U.S. National Toxicology Program (NTP), a federal interagency group under the National Institutes of Health compellingly demonstrated that microwaves at low non-thermal levels and at cell phone frequencies can cause both DNA breaks and cancer:

      http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2016/05/26/055699.full.pdf

      Even this 2016 article in the WSJ agrees that times have changed: “Belt Clip? How the U.S. Tests Cellphones for Safety: Study results support push for tougher standards to protect humans from potential health effects” http://www.wsj.com/articles/debate-renews-over-health-risks-from-cellphone-use-1467829289

      “It’s a paradigm shift in my mind because this is the first study where tremendous care was taken to use nonionizing radiation, and not heat up tissue, and then find that nonionizing radiation caused tumors,” said Otis Brawley, chief medical officer at the American Cancer Society.”

      I realize that as far as the potential dangers of microwaves goes, that despite the increasing evidence I find myself in a similar position to someone warning about the dangers of tobacco smoke in the 1950’s. Many people smoked several packs a day, and even though research had begun to come out about the dangers – after decades of effective suppression by the tobacco industry, but just about no one wants to hear about it, let alone take it seriously. Routinely exposing children to what we now recognize as toxic levels of second-hand smoke just seemed an accepted part of life.

      Decades from now, will we realize that the negative health effects from our continually increasing exposure to microwave sources proved just as damaging to health, though in different ways, than tobacco has? Hard to say, as research like the recent U.S government National Toxicology Program study has just begun to appear past the industry’s blockade. The industry argued that any microwave exposure that does not cause cooking – according to the theory they promoted – can literally NOT have any biological effects – and therefore any exposure below that level seems safe and does not need any testing for safety.

      Many research studies have invalidated this theory, demonstrating effects at microwaves well below the level needed for heating. (See https://www.researchgate.net/publication/242331926_Electromagnetic_fields_act_via_activation_of_voltage-gated_calcium_channels_to_produce_beneficial_or_adverse_effects for an overview). However for obvious reasons the microwave industry has stuck to this position and their lobbyists have made sure that our government policy makers have as well. This despite the U.S governments own NTP study demonstrating that microwaves at cell phone frequencies at very low exposure levels DO cause cancer and DNA breaks. ( https://www.wsj.com/articles/cellphone-cancer-link-found-in-government-study-1464324146 ) While with respect to cancer, I do not believe that the effect of microwave exposures will seem at all comparable in magnitude to that of smoking or of eating the Standard American Diet, this DOES open the proverbial can of worms, with respect to all of the safety studies the microwave industry has NOT done for having an effect on other diseases, while exponentially increasing human exposure to microwaves at a wide variety of new and untested frequencies year after year.

      Sorry Dr. Greger – I give you two thumbs down for this one. You looked for evidence that supported your prejudice, and found it, while not even discussing, paying attention to, or perhaps simply ignoring research, that contradicts an out-of-date point of view.




      62
      1. The WHO and the state of California both recognize potential health risks with cell phones.
        Both do not with microwave ovens. And microwaves have been commonly used since 1971.

        How much more is present from the cell phone industry than the microwave oven industry in influence on governmental operations……

        Apple is the biggest by economy corporation on earth. Exceeding Exon Mobile about ten years or so ago. Can you even name the biggest microwave oven manufacturer?

        And where is the statistical evidence for microwave oven damage to humans? WE seem to have none. Peoples are getting fatter since microwaves have been present. Something in them is making them fatter……it is not the radiation it is the food.




        16
        1. Admittedly, these days, as far as personal exposure goes, microwave ovens have become just one part of the overall microwave exposure that humans get exposed to. Although I expect that our bodies and brains get the vast majority of exposure from our cell phones, routers, cordless phones, and laptops. that does not make the leakage from microwave ovens inconsequential – especially if someone uses one routinely and has the habit of standing anywhere near one when it operates.

          You asked: “And where is the statistical evidence for microwave oven damage to humans? WE seem to have none. ”

          Although few people know the difference, “absence of evidence,” (no studies funded or published) and “evidence of absence” published studies demonstrating the absence of an effect) do not seem at all the same thing.

          For decades the industry position, endorsed by our government, has successfully promoted the assumption that non-thermal levels of microwaves can not cause any biological effects, let alone cause harm. And as a result our government has funded very few research studies – after all, why look for possible effects when the theory you endorse predicts that any such studies will simply waste time and resources? As a result, independent researchers go begging for money, and should they happen to scrape up enough money to at least fund a small study, find their work discounted or ignored specifically because they did small studies. However, in my judgement 40 years of peer reviewed, well controlled research studies, capped by the recent U.S. NTP study, have established beyond any reasonable doubt that low level microwaves can and do cause harm.

          How harmful? That seems the point – nobody really knows BECAUSE the necessary research studies – looking not just as whether microwaves can cause cancer, but at a whole multitude of potentially harmful effects – have never taken place. And as I posted above, “absence of evidence,” (no studies funded or published) and “evidence of absence” (published studies demonstrating the absence of an effect) do not seem at all the same thing.

          I personally would like to see research into seeing if some sort of link exists between different types of cognitive dysfunction (like autism and Alzheimers) and microwave exposure levels, but these days finding a matched non-exposed control group has become almost impossible.

          Why cognitive dysfunction? Because far as “the potential for more subtle, but potentially much more damaging health effects” goes I’d look to Salford’s replicated results, showing leakage in the blood-brain barrier of rats two weeks after only ONE 2 hour exposure to 915 MHz:

          “In the background section of this report, we present a thorough review of the literature on the demonstrated effects (or lack of effects) of microwave exposure upon the BBB. Furthermore, we have continued our own studies by investigating the effects of GSM mobile phone radiation upon the blood–brain barrier permeability of rats 7 days after one occasion of 2 h of exposure. Forty-eight rats were exposed in TEM-cells for 2 h at non-thermal specific absorption rates (SARs) of 0 mW/kg, 0.12 mW/kg, 1.2 mW/kg, 12 mW/kg and 120 mW/kg. Albumin extravasation over the BBB, neuronal albumin uptake and neuronal damage were assessed. Albumin extravasation was enhanced in the mobile phone exposed rats as compared to sham controls after this 7-day recovery period (Fisher’s exact probability test, p = 0.04 and Kruskal–Wallis, p = 0.012), at the SAR-value of 12 mW/kg (Mann–Whitney, p = 0.007) and with a trend of increased albumin extravasation also at the SAR-values of 0.12 mW/kg and 120 mW/kg. There was a low, but significant correlation between the exposure level (SAR-value) and occurrence of focal albumin extravasation (rs = 0.33; p = 0.04).”

          From: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19345073

          Incidentally, I calculated that an SAR of 0.12 mW/kg corresponds to about 15,000 microwatts/meter squared, easily within the range of the level of exposure one would get in close proximity to most cell phones. And I just measured the output of a small microwave I have in my lab with my Extech, and it leaks ~100,000 microwatts/meter squared a foot from the window, which drops down to ~15,000 at 6 feet from the window, and ~4000 at 12 feet. And I own a small microwave, that has seen very little use. And when I do use it, I leave the room.

          I believe this has important implications with respect to the increases seen in Alzheimer’s today, especially of early onset Alzheimer’s as an article published online in Radiology using special MRI software demonstrated the presence of leaky BBB and its association with early Alzheimer’s Disease. (Link to full text and images:http://pubs.rsna.org/doi/abs/10.1148/radiol.2016152244 ) But this of course just seems speculation, until someone gets the funding to do the necessary research and put it to the test.




          20
          1. The causation of alzheimers is not firmly identified.
            Scientific study is leaning towards arterial plaque disease formative process as being a causative associated factor.
            Little is present in viable published medical peer published scientific study to infer microwaves are the cause.

            Plainly speaking no.




            3
            1. “Little is present in viable published medical peer published scientific study to infer microwaves are the cause.”

              Agreed. But “absence of evidence,” (no studies funded or published) and “evidence of absence” (published studies demonstrating the absence of an effect) do not seem at all the same thing.




              7
              1. Certainly they are not the same.
                Really I guess you must have made some very good valid points…what is it 26 likes. And Dr Greger at least as of this writing has only but a poor 2.
                So I guess you win. My opinion is not changed but by likes it appears all others do agree.
                So kudos to you.

                Microwaves cause cancer I guess is your opinion.. Perhaps not so much but at least as much as cellphones do…
                No point in my really responding. Clearly you have blown me completely out of the water in this.

                I say nonsense… but the public I guess proves out not me. You win in that..
                WHO State of Calif throw that all in the trash does not matter. paid off by big microwave they are…surely.




                4
                1. Facts are often not popular. I could not convince a single person to believe the UN weapons inspector Hans Blitz there were not weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq or that he stated he just needed more time…. , it was very unpopular to say that….
                  From WHO
                  “Electromagnetic fields & public health:
                  Microwave ovens

                  Information sheet
                  February 2005

                  WHAT ARE MICROWAVES?
                  Microwaves are high frequency radio waves (radiofrequency fields) and, like visible radiation (light), are part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Microwaves are used primarily for TV broadcasting, radar for air and sea navigational aids, and telecommunications including mobile phones. They are also used in industry for processing materials, in medicine for diathermy treatment and in kitchens for cooking food.

                  Microwaves are reflected, transmitted or absorbed by materials in their path, in a similar manner to light. Metallic materials totally reflect microwaves while non-metallic materials such as glass and some plastics are mostly transparent to microwaves.

                  Materials containing water, for example foods, fluids or tissues, readily absorb microwave energy, which is then converted into heat. This Information Sheet discusses the operation and safety aspects of microwave ovens used in the home. More details about the nature of electromagnetic fields and health effects of radiofrequency and microwave fields are available in WHO Fact Sheets 182 and 183.

                  ARE MICROWAVE OVENS SAFE?
                  When used according to manufacturers’ instructions, microwave ovens are safe and convenient for heating and cooking a variety of foods. However, several precautions need to be taken, specifically with regards to potential exposure to microwaves, thermal burns and food handling.

                  Microwave safety: The design of microwave ovens ensures that the microwaves are contained within the oven and can only be present when the oven is switched on and the door is shut. Leakage around and through the glass door is limited by design to a level well below that recommended by international standards. However, microwave leakage could still occur around damaged, dirty or modified microwave ovens. It is therefore important that the oven is maintained in good condition. Users should check that the door closes properly and that the safety interlock devices, fitted to the door to prevent microwaves from being generated while it is open, work correctly. The door seals should be kept clean and there should be no visible signs of damage to the seals or the outer casing of the oven. If any faults are found or parts of the oven are damaged, it should not be used until it has been repaired by an appropriately qualified service engineer.




                  5
                  1. Just a note to point out that the fact that the U. S. National Toxicology study I cited, as well as others, that demonstrated damaging NON-THERMAL effects from microwaves, at exposures well within the range of what leaks from microwave ovens with INTACT seals, came out AFTER this public service “information piece” appeared in 2005.

                    Even with the best will in the world, even the most qualified group of scientific experts can not take into account research that hasn’t happened yet! And the standards for safe microwave exposures all depended on the now invalidated theory, that only levels of microwaves high enough to cause heating can have biological effects.

                    See for example:

                    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2016/05/26/055699.full.pdf (Published may 26, 2016)

                    For many more research papers published after 2005, check out the references in this 2013 paper:

                    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/242331926_Electromagnetic_fields_act_via_activation_of_voltage-gated_calcium_channels_to_produce_beneficial_or_adverse_effects




                    7
            2. There is also evidence that brain lipid changes are associated with Alzheimer’s Disease
              https://www.intechopen.com/books/update-on-dementia/brain-lipids-in-the-pathophysiology-and-treatment-of-alzheimer-s-disease

              Animal studies also suggest that high saturated fat diets alter certain types of brain lipids.
              http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0166964

              Given that dementia rates in eg the US are estimated to be declining
              https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/02/160211082311.htm

              and US dietary saturated fat availability appeared to peak about 2003 and 2004 and has been declining slowly since then, but I am not aware of any reduction in microwave oven use.it could be argued that dietary changes are more plausible explanations of changes in dementia prevalence than microwave ovens.




              10
              1. First of all, fat stored in the body has nothing to do with eating fat, you can eat lots of carb and sugar and are fat. Secondly, the rate or heart disease and Alzheimer’s in the U.S. had skyrocketed after people consumed “low fat” vegetable oil.




                1
                1. 2 things happening at the same time do not mean they necessarily correlate or are related.
                  We are all increasingly on you Tube, does that mean you tube causes these maladies?
                  .




                  4
                2. Sorry Jerry but this is more idiotic nonsense promoted by the sellers of Atkins type diet plans and the poor deluded souls who believe them.

                  The idea that eating lots of fat doesn’t make you fat is either a lie told by cynical charlatans out to make money from the ignorant and naive, or a counter-factual article of faith by cranks who ignore or dismiss the great bulk of evidence on this matter. Epidemiological evidence in humans and experimental evidence from animal models both show that high fat diets promote obesity. The nuts can shout and stamp their little feet all they want, but the facts are clear. This is why the World Health Organization and other bodies which rely upon expert scientific assessments note that

                  “What causes obesity and overweight?
                  The fundamental cause of obesity and overweight is an energy imbalance between calories consumed and calories expended. Globally, there has been:

                  . an increased intake of energy-dense foods that are high in fat; and
                  . an increase in physical inactivity due to the increasingly sedentary nature of many forms of work, changing modes of transportation, and
                  increasing urbanization.”
                  http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs311/en/

                  And,sure, if you eat energy dense foods that are high in sugar and refined carbs you will get fat also. However,the fact that you can get fat on energy dense foods that are high in sugars and other refined carbohydrates does not prove that you cannot get fat eating energy dense foods high in fat. That reasoning is clearly false and/or designed to deceive.

                  And there is no such thing as low fat vegetable oil. Vegetable oil is liquid fat it contains the same number of calories per gram as any other type of fat. It is such blatantly false claims as these that charlatans and nuts use to persuade people to follow them down the graden path to obesity and ill health.




                  14
                  1. Sadly TG is still doing calorie counting these days. He just goes from one 70 year old theory to another. Sigh.

                    You have a long way to go TG. I hope that you wake up before you are seriously sick and there is no cure.




                    0
                    1. LIke Atkins himself…267 pounds I think it was at his death, and with a heart disease history he had been concealing.

                      The biggest fraud ever, but he sold a lot of books
                      Can’t believe they are still buying this nonsense, Paleo, Atkins spelled backwards with a veggie or two thrown in.




                      5
                    2. I wish you well too Jerry. the point is that I think that you have been enthralled by the half truths and downright falsehoods peddled by people like Atkins, Taubes and the like, which cause you to dismiss all evidence that is contrary to these beliefs.

                      The idea you can eat unlimited amounts of fat and still stay slim is obviously nonsense. Sure, calories contained in say raw or unprocessed foods are less easily absorbed than calories in processed foods. And genetics and our microbiome also affect how many calories we absorb from food. Also obese people process foods differently from lean people. All these things are known. However, the calories we absorb from food do affect weight. The saturated fat promoters just try to twist these facts to try to persuade people that there is some magical metabolic advantage to eating fat. But eat too much fat, as many people do, and you get fat – as many people do. And researchers investigating obesity using animal models traditionally feed animals high fat diets because they are more effective than high carb diets in inducucing obesity. The type of fat also seems to make a difference:

                      “There is significant variation in the results appearing in either experimental rodents that were fed with high fat diets made up from different ingredients and from purified ingredient. Moreover, the sources of fat were diverse from butter, beef tallow, and lard, to vegetable and fish oils.[19] The weight gaining effects on mice when feeding those with high beef fat diet is 1.38 times more remarkable than feeding them with canola oil.[19]”
                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet-induced_obesity_model

                      These types of finding suggest that the claims by the saturatef fat promoters that the problem is not animal fats but vegetable fats, is the exact opposite of the truth.

                      Things are complicated but there is no magical get out of jail card for fat whatever the snake oil merchants and internet sellers of pills potions and diet books/plans claim

                      “A systematic review of low-carbohydrate diets found that the weight loss achieved is associated with the duration of the diet and restriction of energy intake, but not with restriction of carbohydrates.”(Astrup et al., 2004)

                      “This review covers evidence from carefully controlled laboratory studies, clinical trials, studies in populations at high risk of developing obesity, and epidemiologic studies on the role of sugars, particularly sucrose, in the development of obesity. Although many environmental factors promote a positive energy balance, it is clear that the consumption of a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet increases the likelihood of weight gain.” (Saris, 2003)
                      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2714161/




                      4
                    3. Re: The idea you can eat unlimited amounts of fat and still stay slim is obviously nonsense.

                      Nobody ever said that you eat an unlimited amount of fat. You are simply twisting everything to fit your agenda.

                      You can get fat by eating too much of anything, sweet potato, nut, bean, etc.




                      0
                    4. Re: LIke Atkins himself…267 pounds I think it was at his death, and with a heart disease history he had been concealing.

                      I don’t follow Atkins, nor any health conscious meat eaters. Don’t confuse the issue just like I don’t mix up read WFPB vegan with vegans who eat potato chip.

                      If you have any intelligent argument to make then speak up or otherwise shut up.




                      1
            1. Well aside from speed and ease which is more energy efficient a sweet potato in a microwave for 6 minutes or in a stove for 40?
              Global warming is real and we need to do what we can to stop it.
              A vegan, which not admitted all here are….has to be concerned as global warming is extinguishing species as not seen since the great meteor.
              So we do what we can this can be done without great risk.

              WE cannot just think of our selves always in things.




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        1. Dear Dr. Greger –

          Thanks for the response, but no I didn’t miss these videos, which dealt mainly with the possible links of cell phones to cancer, and where I recall you did come to a more balanced and tentative conclusion with respect to the potential danger of microwave exposures. In fact I posted quite a few responses, with links to relevant research studies on both of those threads. Neither cited the recent NTP study, and both only focused on whether cell phones might significantly promote cancer, while not even touching on the possibility that microwaves might promote other diseases that at this point no one has looked at, which to me seems far more likely.

          Just because something does not significantly increase cancer risk (though the jury still deliberates on that one for cell phones and brain cancer in humans, though not apparently in rats) does not make it safe with respect to whether it may promote OTHER unrelated diseases. And as the NTP study confirmed that microwaves can have non-thermal toxicological effects, this DOES open the proverbial can of worms, with respect to all of the safety studies the microwave industry has NOT done, while exponentially increasing human exposure to microwaves at a wide variety of new and untested frequencies year after year.

          Do microwaves leaked from a microwave oven have the same damaging effects as microwaves emitted from cell phones? They do use different frequencies after all, and different frequencies, even at the same level of exposure, may have different effects, for stronger or weaker effects. However, for now as a practical matter I assume that they do, and to limit my exposure to both, on the “rather safe than sorry” principle.

          Thanks very much for the work you do here with respect to providing easy access and well-presented summaries of solid nutritional information to the public at large. However, in the case of the potential danger posed by microwaves, at present it looks you and I will just have to agree to disagree!.




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          1. From that same document Electromagnetic fields and health World Health Organization microwave ovens 2005..
            “INTERNATIONAL STANDARDS
            Several countries, as well as the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC), the International Committee on Electromagnetic Safety (ICES) of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) and the European Committee for Electrotechnical Standardization (CENELEC), have set a product emission limit of 50 watts per square metre (W/m2) at any point 5 cm away from the external surfaces of the oven. In practice, emissions from modern domestic microwave ovens are substantially below this international limit, and have interlocks that prevent people being exposed to microwaves while the oven is on. Moreover, exposure decreases rapidly with distance; e.g. a person 50 cm from the oven receives about one one-hundredth of the microwave exposure of a person 5 cm away.

            These product emission limits are defined for the purpose of compliance testing, not specifically exposure protection. The International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP) has published guidelines on exposure limits for the whole EMF part of the spectrum. Exposure guidelines in the microwave range are set at a level that prevents any known adverse health effect. Exposure limits for workers and for the general public are set well below levels where any hazardous heating occurs from microwave exposure. The emission limit for microwave ovens mentioned above is consistent with the exposure limits recommended by ICNIRP.”

            That I suspect will not be popular.




            3
      2. Dear Alef1, thank you so much for your persistent humanitarian kindness, educating all of us and, particularlly, our dear Dr. Greger – of whom I am also a big fan of his work and, therefore, would love to see him adding to his chemistry, nutrition and molecular biology knowledge, just the basic notions on Biophysics, Biophothonicsand Bioressonance, So, let me, also, thank you on behalf of dr. Greger for your scientific as humble attitude..




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      3. why has no one gone to the basis of this “cooking” method? How does thermal effect happen with the food targeted. I will research and find the article I read prob. three or 4 yrs ago–perhaps Dt. Mercola on how the micro waves speed up and agitate molecules inside food to a point where heat builds up . The molecules are bouncing all over the place wildly. As the micro waves end the molecules then settle down (cool off) however —the arrangement of the molecules in the targeted food after extreme agitation —may not or do not settle into the initial natural arrangement to each other before the micro burst. Ergo, a so called Frankenfude . It is a chicken breast but is also not completely recognized by body as normal chicken . It looks different to enzymes and organs now. Hummm one can predict that outcome on the body eventually, Is the food recognized as not a familiar constituent at all but similar only—what the heck does the body do with this alien food parading as normal food with normal molecular offering when it is not entirely that? zombie food yes— yet said to be uncontaminated by ionizing radiation is safe? don’t think so . a micro drop of arsenic once a week wont hurt but after 20 years you will be dying a long slow painful death–a little at a time.




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      4. Sorry Aleph1 but having now had a look at your references, I have to say that I do not think that they substantiate either your concerns or your criticisms of this video. The US FDA’s assessment of the safety of microwave ovens seems in accordance with the current evidence. Yours isn’t.
        https://www.fda.gov/Radiation-EmittingProducts/ResourcesforYouRadiationEmittingProducts/ucm252762.htm

        Frankly, the prejudice here appears to be all yours. Sorry to be blunt but your frank criticism deserves an equally frank respeonse.




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      5. Funny that people here have all kind of conspiracy theories about paleo people coming here to “like” a post that disagrees with Dr G.

        When there were the thumb down feature months ago, I routinely received 50 thumb down. Do I think it is the aliens from Mars who gave me thumb down or is the vegans with multiple IDs who gave me thumb down? Several were already caught with multiple IDs, the most famous one is the librarian who now disappears but I am sure that she is lurking here with yet another name.

        Anyway, nobody is allowed to post anything against Dr G. Viva the King.




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      6. I’m in agreement with alef1. I have a Gigahertz Solutions HF 35C radio frequency meter. With our GE microwave oven running at 50% power and standing 10 feet away from it, the RF meter measures over 1999 uW/square meter pulses coming from the microwave. The acceptable norm is <10 uW/square meter. I get similar readings for my Samsung Galaxy S7 when within 10 feet of it and it is communicating with the tower. And for having wi-fi and/or bluetooth turned on in the house. Please "put it to the test", Dr. Greger.




        1
  2. Hi Action Jackson, thanks for your comment. I am happy that Dr Greger is covering the topic of Microwave oven and its safety. In the below article it does point out that microwave is non ionizing radiation as you commented. I understand that guidelines for the safe exposure of workers and the general public is issued by the International Commission on Non Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP).

    Estimation of Radiofrequency Power Leakage from Microwave Ovens for Dosimetric Assessment at Nonionizing Radiation Exposure Levels




    1
    1. Food cooked in a microwave oven is perfectly safe. The microwaves excite the food’s water mollecules, and they move and produce heat. That’s all.

      Seems the phrase “nuking my food” is at fault. It’s cute, but has also created a lot of unmerited worry.




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      1. What are microwaves are they just another form of radiation that has not been fully tested? Too my understanding heating and cooking foods in microwave diminishes its nutritional value, could this be true?

        Rudolph Singh




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        1. With most foods but not all the nutritional value may be slightly lessened with cooking. In general this is a effect of heat not anything specific to microwaves.
          Cabbage some select foods cooking enhances certain nutritive properties.
          Antioxidative effect..a study Dr Greger commented upon had a 90 plus percent retention. Exceeding other forms of cooking.
          Quary what cooking method is best in the search section.That video should pop up.




          3
        2. Very little attention is given to the electromagnetic energy of cells and this is an oversight that needs to be addressed. Microwave radiation does have an effect on the electromagnetic energy in the substances being exposed to it and our cells also would be affected by the electromagnetic energy when they are exposed to it.

          What about the second-hand effects? Microwaved foods may indeed have an altered electromagnetic energy that isn’t as beneficial to our bodies as foods that haven’t been microwaved. But again, we aren’t being shown studies about this. They may exist – I haven’t seen them yet.

          I’m more in agreement with the comments posted by alef1 on this. Don’t trivialize what you don’t know. Keep posting about nutrition Dr. Greger – your efforts and those of your researchers are needed and appreciated, but this topic is outside of your expertise.

          Thank you.




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          1. Dr Greger has done a video on microwaves and nutritional content called Best cooking methods

            Put it in the search quary here and it will show up.
            Microwave was best by study of three hundred types of food and multiple cooking methods for antioxidant retention..




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          2. Dr G even trivializes nutrition like if you eat WFPB and your cholesterol is below 80, blah blah blah then you must be healthy or you will never die because you have no disease like Ron in New Mexico has said.

            Dr G better talks only about veganism.




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            1. You seemed to be doing pretty good there Jerry for a little while.
              Now all of a sudden this.

              Do you take something or are these just sudden mood shifts?




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              1. “Relatives of people with diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease or schizophrenia have noticed that people with neurological disorders can be clear one day and foggy the next, or calm one minute and then explode with rage.

                Preliminary research suggests that such extremes may result from damage to the frontal lobes, home to such executive functions as impulse control, multitasking, judgment and attention, according to a literature review by University of Victoria psychology professor Stuart MacDonald, PhD, published in Trends in Neurosciences (Vol. 29, No. 8). That damage includes frontal lobe lesions and reduced gray-matter density.

                Because the frontal lobes regulate attention, mood and concentration through their connections with other brain regions, any damage to them can throw the whole brain off, says Barry Jacobs, PsyD, director of behavioral sciences at Crozer-Keystone Family Medicine Residency Program in Springfield, Pa.”
                http://www.apa.org/monitor/2008/11/lucidity.aspx




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                1. Thanks TG makes sense.
                  I have experience with dementia but not classical alzheimers. I think the two are combined often but suspect the first is confused with the other quite often. LIke CTE is confused with alzheimers as well.




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                    1. Jerry you mean to say… I think you may have Alzheimer’s because dementia is to mild.
                      I am not one to call out mistakes in wording as I am certainly the pot calling the kettle black but….what you wrote does not make sense.




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          3. Also out of the area of expertise of WHO every regulatory body of every nation in the world and the FDA, then…..as none disallow them seemingly.

            All waiting presumably for studies that may or may not exist?

            Because it is clear they all are in the pocket of big microwave…..the purveyors of all evil…big microwave…(shudder shudder)

            Be forwarned this comment willl not be popular.




            2
            1. I can just see it now…as in the War of the Worlds…giant microwave ovens invade the earth….walking around hitting citizens with MICROWAVES!

              Sponsored by BIG MICROWAVE. Backed by congress that has been lobbied by BIG MICROWAVE.

              BIG MICROWAVE has taken it’s methodologies from BIG TOBACCO and BIG PHARMA.

              They are ganging up and INVADING the EARTH!!! Run!!!

              Warning….this is not a drill.




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            2. I did see someone else offer helpful advice to the people who dismiss the reports of expert scientific bodies and assessments of regulatory safety bodies and insist that there is a very substantial danger from the radiation emitted by microwave ovens ……… just double the thickness of the tinfoil in your hat.

              His comment wasn’t popular either.




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              1. Talking about tinfoil hats, apparently some people line their whole house with tinfoil to reduce risk from these types of radiation. The article below is from the UK’s Guardian newspaper. It is – IMHO – informative and amusing. While I am not normally a fan of the Guardian – it promotes left-wing liberal political correctness ad nauseam – it does occasionally have some intelligent and useful articles.

                https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2012/sep/27/wi-fi-health-risks




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                1. A show out of Albuquerque New mexico… Better Call Saul has one of the main characters with that problem. Initially he has his entire house in tinfoil. And refuses anyone to use or even carry cell phones.




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          4. Sorry Melinda but assessing and reorting what the evidence actually shows is not “trivialising” anything. Neither is ignoring speculative claims , with no evidence to support them, “trivialising” anything.

            Taking wild speculations as established facts is neither sensible nor scientific




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  3. Thanks. The Russians questioned the effect of microwaves on the nutrition of food itself, not external effects. If you stick a metallic loop in a microwave it creates a high current or arcing. Eddy currents. This is different than the effect of vibrating water molecules. To the extent eddy currents might occur in food it would be equivalent to passing electricity through food which would result in bad, unpredictable or toxic effects to the food.

    That was the theory. I just have not seen much research relating to these ideas. But I tend to only use microwaves for reheating or quickly heating up veggies or tea anyway, not longer cooking.




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      1. Someone should test various microwaved foods for acrylamide or some other byproduct which could be a good indicator of unhealthy super heating or electrical current.




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  4. How are people putting their hands/arms in a working microwave? Maybe at Raytheon they have special microwaves but it seems the commercial ones stop when the door is opened. Am I mistaken? If I open the door to check on something while there is still time on the timer, are microwaves still being emitted even though the sound stops and the turntable stops?




    3
    1. Should be impossible unless the interlock is bypassed. At Raytheon the microwave sources were various radar systems including standing in front of the nose of running military aircraft.




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    2. The doors are not absolutely fail safe mechanisms. Think of it..you may now by a microwave in Walmart for 29.99 likely made in who knows what country. And hundreds of thousands of the things are sold annually. Once it was a high ticket operation manufactured to consistant scientific standard. Tehj things were expensive comparably back in the day inflation considered.
      The FDA has had reports of malfunctioning units which continue to operate when the door is open…it happens.

      High end ones you pay hundreds for more safe than the 29.99 ones. No science may tell us that but rationality may.
      You have a cheap one like I do….stay away from it when operating and keep the kids away…it is common sense not scientific or study sense.




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      1. You would do the same with your stove or any other appliance really. Keep yourself and the kids away if reasonably possible. A cheap one does not work as well as a good one. Common sense tell us that not scientific study.




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      2. Not sure if the FDA, or some other agency actually has the responsibility for this inspecting microwaves to make sure they pass the safety standards, but if they do, even with the best will in the world, how many inspections can the FDA – an agency with a very limited budget and personnel size for the magnitude of the tasks they have responsibility for — actually do?

        With respect to food safety, I pretty much gave up on the FDA years ago as doing pretty much much effective with respect to actually protecting the consumer years ago, except perhaps for contaminated foods that send people to the emergency room. In part because of the strong connection to the food and pharmaceutical industries (many staffers eventually leave the FDA to have positions there), but primarily because of how very few employees they have – for example, only about 1000 to police the entire Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition section for the entire United States :

        https://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutFDA/ReportsManualsForms/Reports/BudgetReports/UCM301553.pdf

        And that thousand includes secretaries, technicians, janitors, managers etc. I wonder how many food inspectors they actually have? Despite searching, I have yet to find a number. I expect the situation for microwave oven safety inspectors seems even worse.




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        1. Your point that the FDA is understaffed is well taken. As in so many cases, it is up to us to address safety concerns by at the minimum following these guidelines pur out by the FDA Tips on Safe Microwave Oven Operation https://www.fda.gov/Radiation-EmittingProducts/ucm252762.htm
          Follow the manufacturer’s instruction manual for recommended operating procedures and safety precautions for your oven model.
          Use microwave safe cookware specially manufactured for use in the microwave oven.
          Don’t operate a microwave oven if the door does not close firmly or is bent, warped, or otherwise damaged.
          Stop using a microwave oven if it continues to operate with the door open.
          As an added safety precaution, don’t stand directly against an oven (and don’t allow children to do this) for long periods of time while it is operating.
          Do not heat water or liquids in the microwave oven longer than recommended in the manufacturer’s instructions.
          Some ovens should not be operated when empty. Refer to the instruction manual for your oven.
          Regularly clean the oven cavity, the outer edge of the cavity, and the door with water and a mild detergent. A special microwave oven cleaner is not necessary. Be sure to not use scouring pads, steel wool, or other abrasives..




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  5. I too use my microwave daily and have always wondered if leftover micro emissions have an effect on the body. I was a teenager when my parents got their first microwave and have used one ever since, but what about food irradiation, how is that effecting our food, so now its getting zapped twice before it reaches our gullet. How safe is this practice? Has science caught up to the effect? Thank you so much for all the wonderful education!!




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  6. Food cooked in a microwave as per antioxidant retention is actually best compared to other methods of cooking.
    Dr Greger addresses that in a study of 300 various food types with many different methods of cooking. Microwaves come out on top.
    Best methods of cooking I think is the name of the video.
    Maybe a moderator will link it if not put it in the search at the top.




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  7. I recall reading some time ago that microwave cooking disrupts the structure of proteins in food, resulting in aberrant forms that are (1) non-nutritive and (2) possibly harmful. Was this a one-time idle claim or is there research to support or debunk it?




    5
    1. There is likely something called research or scientific study to support that claim.
      Is it good research a scientific study with a control and other things to include publishing in a peer reviewed journal …..I think not.

      Junk science exists. WE must examine all research or have others we trust do it for us. Examine for fault to see if sometimes intentional In nature fault is present in a study, usually in the method of study.




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    2. It is probably true but it needs to be considered in context. All cooking processes disrupt protein structures in food. Heat treatment especially but even soaking food and storage time can affect eg protein digestibility. Simply talking about the effects of microwave cooking and ignoring similar or even greater greater effects arising from other cooking methods is misleading.

      BBQing, grilling, roasting and frying may be significantly worse than microwaving in their affects on food safety, for example..
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/best-cooking-method/

      On the other hand, cooking generally improves food digestibility, reduces the risk of food poisoning and increases the odds of killing parasites and other infections lurking in foods. Everything in life appears to be a tradeoff. If you are near a public librfary Richard Wrangham’s book “Catching fire: how cooking made us human” is worth borrowing and is an interesting and entertaining read.

      There are a number of videos on this site about cooking methods and microwaves that you might find relevant. Just go to the Search box at the top of the page and enter the topic name.




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    3. Ellen, you are correct . Keep up your own research and you will find into on how the cooking changes food structure which the body does not recognize as wholly natural. Now, what will the body do with that morphed food ?? No one has studied that as no one wants to submit a human to a diet of only microwaved food as it is to cruel to practice that not knowing the end result or perhaps KNOWING the end tragic result.




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      1. I’m interested to learn more Linda. Do you have any research or sources you would like to recommend? I’m very curious about the sorts of compounds the food structures form after microwave cooking.




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    1. The sun gives off radiation every day. Excess causes cancer but normal amounts are quite good for us. Nuclear radiation is bad for us. Pilots and such are exposed to excess radiation levels most of us do not assume and may have some slight but more potentially harming effects from that.
      In a similar fashion excess forms of radiation found in a microwave are bad for us. Putting ones hand in a operating one we would quickly regret it.
      But in normal operation they pose no special risk.
      You want to worry worry about a cell phone itself. There may be some basis in that. WHO states that.




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      1. I think it’s good to ask questions. Where does the radiation go after the microwave is used? The sun rays come to the earth and are caught in matter. So obviously some of that radiation will be in the food, where does the rest go? Second with phones just use loudspeaker, but yea phones also cause high levels of radiation, however phones are not designed to cook food. So it’s little different. But yea don’t overly use a mobile phone.




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        1. Where does the light energy go when one shuts off a light switch.
          It is absorbed or it dissipates to us instantly.

          Some energy forms emitted from the sun do indeed go through matter but that is another subject. They go through us but have no negative effect.
          Light goes through us as well as we see at night in tents with a flashlight. Some is absorbed.




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          1. From the 2005 WHO report on microwaves…
            “Misconceptions:
            To dispel some misconceptions, it is important to realize that food cooked in a microwave oven does not become “radioactive”. Nor does any microwave energy remain in the cavity or the food after the microwave oven is switched off. In this respect, microwaves act just like light; when the light bulb is turned off, no light remains.”




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            1. So microwaves do not create free radicals? Second I still wonder how well the body deals with food broken down this way? As nothing in nature breaks food down like this, we have been using fire a long time so our bodies are use to food broken down in this way, but will our body absorb food broken down in a microwave as well as eating it raw, or cooking it in a pan or oven?




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        2. “Where does the radiation go after the microwave is used?”

          That is another concern of mine. And what might environmental impacts be? I’m no expert on this stuff, but that is one of the first thoughts that come to mind on this subject.

          ron brings up light, but I think that is a lot less concerning than extra radiation in the environment. Again, I am no expert on this!




          1
    2. This is not entirely true. We need heat and light radiation for giood health.for example.

      Even with other types of radiation (the types you are talking about presumably), there is some evidence that low doses may even be beneficial
      http://www.birpublications.org/doi/abs/10.1259/bjr/63353075?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori%3Arid%3Acrossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%3Dpubmed&amp;

      However, you do appear to be expressing the conventional position on this point
      https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-05/documents/low-dose-284-291.pdf
      http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935116309343?via%3Dihub




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    1. Best Cooking Methods
      Put that in search here and quary that. A video by Dr Greger on the science.
      Microwaves as per antioxidant retention are the best form of cooking.




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    2. It seems that microwaves can actually preserve certain nutrients in foods better than other methods of cooking, however, others bring up the molecular structure being drastically changed to the point where our bodies don’t recognize the food. Now, I have absolutely no idea if there is any truth to this at all, but I would like to see what Dr. Greger has to say about it for some perspective. Someone else here said that this hypothesis has not been studied. I don’t know if that’s true either. But if it hasn’t been studies, how do they know? Just a theory?




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      1. Has there ever been any studies on a group of people eating microwaved foods for a period of time vs. a group eating oven/stove cooked foods? That could be interesting.




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  8. I tried the experiment you suggested.
    I put my cell phone in the microwave, ran it for 1 minute and yeah, my cell phone no longer receives calls.
    Weird.




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  9. There probably is no problem with microwaves short term, maybe even long term. But instinctively food has never really been broken down like this before, same with some fruit in a blender if you blend apples it’s broken down in a different way to nature and the body doesn’t like it. Well with radiation I would wonder how that breaks the food down when it’s cooked, how much radiation is kept in the food it’s self and absorbed in to the body creating free radicals. To me since there is no way in which to cook food like in a microwave in nature, I would wonder if our human bodies have evolved to deal with how the proteins and nutrients have been broken down, the only place in which this could happen is possible in really sunny locations but then the heat would also break the nutrients down. So I just wonder how well our bodies can deal with the food that is cooked in a microwave. However I don’t like the idea of a microwave leaking radiation if you don’t notice that could cause some serious issues. Microwaves have Faraday Cage inside though so nothing should escape out of the microwave, but radiation has already been put in to the food. So I would like to know how much radiation is kept in the food. Additionally I would like to know where the radiation goes after using a microwave? Since the microwave is using radiation? Where does it go after, is it realised out of the door when opened? Where does it go? The suns radiation hits earth, where does the radiation created by the microwave go?




    1
    1. Radiation is a form of energy it absorbs or dissipates normalizes. Like heat energy it cools.
      Nuclear energy is selective in that in that it keeps on producing energy and is really never off. Radiation from a nuclear particle like plutonium is always on producing.

      Microwaves no off they are off.
      Like a light off off immediately there is no residual light energy around..
      Heat may be around and continue till normalized.




      3
      1. Funny thing I have noticed personally peoples who worry about microwaves are usually ones who do not worry about their cell phones. When WHO and the state of california have both stated there is a possibility of cell phones, not microwaves causing cancer.

        Is it a self hatred of food type thing displaying in this fashion concurrent with a liking of communication with others, translating into opinion?
        Some mixed up thing we occasionally do as human? Looking at the internet seems there is more concern for this thing than things like eating healthy or known causes of harm to people like alcohol..Concern for the earth being flat as well. Strange these present times.




        2
        1. The radiation is still active then when the food is warm after using the microwave? Isn’t it dangerous to eat that food? Additionally I wonder how food broken down in this way will be absorbed by the body?

          Yes I worry about my mobile phone, I usually have it off, unless I go out, and if I use it I use hands free. It’s different with a phone, as I’m not using my phone to break food down and then eating it, which puts it directly in to my blood stream. But I do also worry about the effects of mobile phones, and wifi, however, this isn’t about mobile phones or wifi. The topic is microwaves.




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  10. I’m a big fan but English speaking , not American. Please Dr. Greger enough with the ‘ likes’ it’s like too much, like really irritating, like major off- putting. Otherwise you rock




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    1. Agree 100%
      Perhaps once the like button feature was not compromised.
      Now it evidently is.

      Thanks for the sideways way of mentioning it. I am assuming a operative…. always like to see someone like you participating when the site is not the target of your intention.
      Generally you are very informed peoples with a lot of intelligent things to say.
      So thanks for me, I speak not for the site.




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      1. Yes dear readers for a small sum of bitcoins on the dark web one may buy things such as software which affect the like readings on all sorts of sites.Subscription numbers all sorts of things.

        Notice anything unusual about the like readings on this site perhaps?
        That person is not necessarily doing the manipulation however. They may just be expressing the opinion of another not connected who is expressing their view. They may be totally innocent. But 40 likes really on a fairly obscure topic? And the person who most know and run the site gets 6…???
        It is however covert manipulation of a site and is common.

        Again no offense to the person who is receiving the likes.
        Yes dear reader this is todays internet..these things happen.




        1
        1. Which is why I have spent so much time on this subject personally. I hate to see manipulation. I really don’t care much if people think the earth is flat or microwaves are evil…..people tend to believe what they want as we see with dietary information at times.

          Back in the day when smoking first was declared cancer causing by the surgeon general..I clearly remember one fellow, a smoker, saying it was the sulfur in the matches causing all the problems..
          So we have great gross health problems in America obviously…so some blame them on microwaves….some blame them on this or that….when really it is what we.put in the microwaves and then our bodies that is the problem.




          1
        2. I don’t think it is manipulation, Ron.

          I think the title draws in large numbers of casual visitors from the internet and youtube who have an interest in this particular topic. The same thing happens when there is “paleo” in the title – all the paleo nuts drop in. Or milk – the dairy people come and comment or vote. Then there are the religious nuts who object to any mention of “evolution”. They always seem to appear when there is mention of ancient eras or evolution itself.

          There are many more people i suspect who have concerns about microwave oven radiation than there are paleo believers erc. Plus I think that Nutritionfacts itself has a fair number of alternative health/woo believers as part of its regular audience despite its focus on scientific evidence. So the large number of “likes” for Aleph1’s posts is not really surprising. He writes well and is plausible.after all, and he is writing things that many people want to hear.




          2
          1. Seriously doubt that TG

            Peleo is a very common popular dietary style. I would of course agree if he refutes it there will be significant blow back.
            And diet is way more personal to peoples than any other thing. We do it every day multiple times and our mothers taught us to do it this or that way generally.

            Microwave ovens???
            Yes we can find some people interested in this. But really a comment on a nutritional site and the nuttritional sites primary author makes a comment as well as providing a video 6 likes (last I checked) and 40 plus holding adverse opinion…..I seriously doubt that.

            How many peoples are doing Paleo and how many are complaining about microwave oven safety……do we even have a survey on microwave oven safety…..yes it was concerning about in 1980.
            Cell phone are now concerning. The WHo statement came out in 2011, California’s statement just a month or so ago.
            Is corporate interest not favored if we combine the two? A safe thing with a potentially unsafe thing…sure it is. And so they will.

            No offense but perhaps you are as current with the thing of manipulation as I am but perhaps not. Do you suppose even one year ago or two years ago when the FTC received comments on internet neutrality they received 1 million or so false comments….no they did not.
            They did a month ago. Corporation versed them and applied false names to them. Our local media here published a list so we could check to see if our names were on them.
            Did that happen when several years back this was under consideration by the prior administration, complete falsehoods….not at all.

            Things have changed I will not belabor the point. You want to believe not believe not.
            I referenced on this subject Readers supported news several times…..I expect none have checked their site to see their statement on this in relation to this issue. And that is but one site. They admitted to it.
            Which is quite exceptional.. WE want to assume things are as they appear here on the internet in communication mediums of all sorts…they are not.




            1
          2. Re: Then there are the religious nuts who object to any mention of “evolution”. They always seem to appear when there is mention of ancient eras or evolution itself.

            Speaking of religious nuts, although the vegans account for less than 5% of the population, they are the most noisy minority, most fanatic, most uptight, and they are everywhere on every blog no matter if it is paleo, ketogenic, or vegan forums.

            P.S. I don’t say that all vegans are like this but a lot are.




            1
            1. Reasonable comment really I can a bit agree, though I am one
              . Vegans tend to adopt a holier than thou attitude. Don’t care for their ideology at all but born again Christians are by my read the most friendly of all people to include Jehovah’s witnesses. Just friendly people. Saw that once contrasted in a supermarket. A person I knew from a Buddhist study group I used to attend barely said hello, A fundamentalist who was a neighbor the exact opposite, And that always did replicate for me. Vegans I expect are the same.

              Most of your “common folk” attracted to the title on you tube, are actually commenting on you tube.Not here.
              TG, you do realize that do you….? Your comments here do not show there and the opposite as well.
              The true believers or those who have reason to take this a bit more seriously for one reason or another come here.
              That a given….. likes for Dr Gregers opinions, all things considered should out number.. Perhaps rarely things should be evenly split up.
              Overwhelmiingly one direction 40 plus likes to the inverse should not happen. Naturally

              You tube I expect one could find any number favoring or disfavoring depending on who is watching it at that time of day.




              0
              1. Yes, Ron. I always watch the NF videos on YouTube. The videos here do not play properly on my computers. I have used three laptops, all Windows 10, since the last major NF format change. NF.org videos haven’t played correctly on any of them since that achange lthough full-screen is marginally better than the in-screen format. I also read the comments on YouTube.

                In fact at one stage, I didn’t bother coming to NF.org at all. I used to watch and comment on YouTube. I came back to NF.org because many of the YouTube comment threads are dominated by ignorant and abusive crackpots. I don’t mind “vigorous” discussion but one consequence was that there was very little intelligent comment there. By and large, the NF-org commenters tend to make more sensible and rational comments. Consequently I am well aware of the differences between the NF.org and YouTube audiences for these videos.

                But you do also get the zealots parachuting into NF.org to comment when a particular video title comes on to their radar screen..

                The other point is that I suspect that a large part of Dr G’s audience is people who would regard themselves as “alternative” – after all, vegetarianism and veganism are still not mainstream. People with a genuine interest in nutrition and health science, as opposed to just wanting their opinions validated, may even be a minority. Aleph1’s commments are always thoughtful and he cites serious scientific refernces to support his comments. So the number of likes he received is neither surprising nor suspicious, to my mind In any case, you are not going to find any industry with a financial interest in manipulating the likes for aleph1’s posts. At best, you might find a few NF-org supporters asking like-minded people on other boards to come here and like aleph1’s posts




                1
                1. Well TG we certainly will never know for sure. But I do know the technology is out there are one may buy it for a reasonably low sum of money.
                  Anyone who is pretty technologically savy has access to it. The question may be why would it not be used. I have not examined this site in depth but it seems little designed to prevent overt influence. I even assume there may be multiple identities here, one person using several names.

                  On a motive of corporate interests…I have mentioned before combining a thing considered pretty safe with a thing that is possibly causing of cancer gives protection to the one causing cancer. By diluting the information.
                  Microwaves are that thing considered pretty safe. Why would industry not do that?. Apple is bursting with money. Certainly they have operatives to influence discussion on things. If I was them I certainly would.

                  And Apple as far as morality is considered by my read they are particularly low. The last incident with their batteries shows that.
                  Phones are their bread and butter. So they will protect them. This is one means. Instigate nonsense about microwaves so peoples will think nonsense is also written about cell phones.

                  Cell phones are not overtly cancer causing but normally used they may cause cancer. Microwaves normally used they do not.

                  Just now I read the coconut oil video responses. There are some here and there but pretty evenly balanced. Coconut oil has a very large following far exceeding that of those opposed to microwaves. A lot of people take it and support it use.In the MMA community it has a following for combating arthritis and such combined with tumeric and pepper. People are largely deluded about its capeabilities.
                  So we find a few likes and some adverse opinion but no groundswell of opinion against Dr Gregers opinion.
                  Think about it…..would we not also be seeing that?

                  The results are not fully in but if we find 4o plus likes and 6 or so dislike for a adversarial position to Dr Greger’s I would be very surprised and retract this comment and all others on this subject.
                  But we will see if that happens.
                  So I say think about it as you will see that will not happen. I predict it.




                  0
                  1. TG this thing of like dislikes subscriptions is a very big thing. Corporate interest very firmly must have you believing in that thing as well as governmental interest. Everyone knows IP addresses can be faked and are. Yet we have the CIA determining that we know this thing is from Russia by the IP address..
                    And Beyoncé or anyone has a new single coming out…1 million plus views 1 million more subscribers to her channel..which means more sales of her new single and more money she can get for adds on her channel.(not saying her just using her as a potential example). More trips to Las Vegas and all the rest. And everyone wants to be on a thing they think is growing so more fans are created. must be something here look how many followers she has.
                    Why would they not do that?
                    RT claims more views of its thing than about any other thing….I sortof like some of what the do but really….the most views globally? I have to doubt that.

                    And we are talking several thousand to get the software. Compared to things of influence which are in the multimillions.
                    No it is not you and your like dislike on a facebook page but it may well be a celebrity you follow. And would any youtube or other group facebook twitter crack down on it…..it shows them more popular than perhaps they are…so why would they?

                    YOu probably did not even know such was possible and available on the market before I mentioned it…why is that? Why no stories on that?

                    Corporate interest is against that is why and governmental interest as they are oft now one and the same. So I trust little and if I see a thing abstract I say prove it is not before I say as I once did prove it is.
                    The corruption in our diet we see here by corporate influence is but a tell on a overall corporate corruption of things in general which really do boggle the mind.
                    Now we know we are all surveilled and this and that. This sort of thing is to important to them so a whistleblower will never be allowed.

                    This thing is rotten to the core. Beyond even Snowdens revelatons. Everything is compromised.
                    If you have not research it. You are bright and have that sort of mind, so put it to that.




                    0
                    1. To add in this specific that one individual could be just being used to display this confusion on the issue by another. I have no way of knowing that. Could read through see this and say this guy has a pretty long statement to the adverse most will not even read…use it to our aim.

                      The length being the thing as few read beyond the first line or two of a thing.
                      How long has this been going on potentially…WHO came out with their statement in 2011…..so Apple may have been working on this thing of influencing opinion for quite a while, a battle which they seem to be losing as per Calif 2017..

                      To think they are not working on it is to me absurd.




                      0
  11. My friend always drives me crazy, because she looked at the fake “water from the microwave kills plants” YouTube video years ago. I watched the debunking video, which showed that the shadow didn’t change in their background and I watched a video where another man replicated the study and microwave didn’t kill plants. (I think tea made the plants grow bigger, if I remember right)

    I have also watched videos where people measured the microwave radiation and backed up ten feet or put a barrier and the radiation was gone.

    Learning this is relief to me, because it is easy to take a few steps back and have a sense of it being safer.

    For years, I think I felt “doomed” that I grew up with microwave everything, and felt like it probably killed the benefits in the food, etc.

    Now, I just take a few steps back when it is on and eat healthy food and don’t spend long sessions on my cell phone and find that my stress about all of it decreased and I am not as worried about things like cancer anymore.

    Not having stress is a very good thing.




    5
    1. Just my personal opinion…
      In the intelligence field the way to stop a real story from having effect is not to overtly squash the real story, kill the author or some such burn down the newspaper …but to produce from controlled source ten or more stories of similar content but with nuance to them which are untrue.
      These stories are then shot down and discredited. So the original true story goes with them.

      To my personal opinion there is some problem with cell phones as the WHO statement of 2011 and the California government statement of 2017 suggests.
      If things as benign as microwaves seemingly harmless are thrown in with cell phones both are then considered harmless.

      So this Is a way of doing that. The end product is the perception becomes cell phones are as microwaves harmless. When really they do not equate.

      To my opinion.




      1
      1. Not to overstate the thing. Cell phones are pretty harmless it is just we should take some precautions especially with children around their use.
        Microwaves operating correctly used normally are about completely harmless..




        2
  12. Thank you for this information.
    Since this is the place to request a NutritionFacts topic for research, I’d like to suggest one related to microwaves. I recently saw information regarding the fact that the glaze in dishes and cups may or may not contain lead. And unless the statement on the bottom of the dish states it is lead free and/or lead safe that one should assume it is not. I’ve also read some conflicting information that states that if the bottom of your eating-drinking ware states: Microwave and dishwasher safe, that it is safe to use in heated situations involving food. But is it? and does that mean there is no lead in the glaze on the cup or dish? I read of an incident where a person who uses a sophisticated lead testing device would test various eating-drinking objects and make the results public. She tested a set of dishes and cups. The plates and bowls that came in the set were lead safe (and stated so on the bottoms) but the cups were not (and did not state so on the bottoms) but all were packaged together as a set with the packaging stating “Lead Safe”.
    Supposedly the company IKEA sells only lead safe products in its stores. However many of the cups I looked at that they sold did not state they were lead safe on the bottoms. It could be they are, in fact, lead safe. But if there is no designation can we trust that information?
    I would just love Dr. G.’s team to look into this situation so that we can be better consumers of our eating-drinking ware. Especially for those following this site who have children. Thanks!!




    1
  13. So I put my cell phone in my microwave oven and closed the door. When the phone was called, it did ring. Does this mean the oven is unsafe? Or did I misunderstand ? Please answer because I am quite concerned now. Thanks!




    0
    1. Yep, it’s a concern but I don’t know how valid is this test? It sounds logical but until somebody validates it, then we don’t know it for sure. I hope that Dr G verifies it himself before making the video. I got rid of my microwave oven years ago and so I cannot check it myself.

      Just to double check. Do you hear your cell phone in the microwave oven ringing or does the phone where you call from ring? Because if it is the second case then you hear the ring from the cell tower.




      1
    2. As I understand it no. It is normal to have some leakage from a microwave. And that experiement was to show that. The microwave must meet certain standards of permissible leakage that is referenced above in the WHO statements. If it does not ring I would say you have a unusually well sealed unit.
      AS I interpret the video.

      I have a very cheap one and suspect it would ring. But I always instructed my kids…never ever put your cell phones in a microwave so really can not violate my own rules and test that out ;)
      At the very least they would think I was getting very odd. I can hear it now…yes he put his phone in the microwave and then called it……what is wrong with that man???




      4
      1. Oh yes I re-read the transcript and I think he is suggesting the test as confirmation, not as a test.
        In any case I often do dishes or other things in the kitchen right next to the microwave on a daily basis so I am a bit concerned :-(




        1
        1. Reputable organizations such as the FDA, suggest not leaning or pushing your body on the thing when on.

          You have a piece of junk like I have I use reasonable precautions. Kids I tell them….my microwave is a piece of junk don’t get close to it and look at the food when it is on.

          I try to stay away from it when on. I mean just wait a couple of minutes to wash the dishes if it is right there. Mine is by the fridge. So I wait a bit. Sweet potatoes 3 min on each side…so I wait 3.
          Not in use there is no hazard. It is like a light switch on it is on off it is off. Not a thing if off.

          I do take care to see to it the gasket on the door is not dirty with food. WHO suggests that is dangerous. As the gasket is or may be compromised.
          Other than that it is no big deal.

          Past exposure….cell phone is probably more of a worry as their is a precaution by WHO they may be cancer causing, it is a possible. Nothing for microwaves. So why sweat it?




          2
    3. Microwave ovens are designed to shield the frequency used by microwave ovens, probably about 2.4 ghz, not the frequency used by cell phones, and cell phones can use different frequency bands




      2
      1. While I’m aware that I did not use a possibly more accurate expensive item to test, I DID try the cell phone test and my phone didn’t ring inside my microwave….




        1
      2. Yes but I understand that WIFI routers use the same frquency as microwave ovens. Microwave oven emissions are at least a thousand times stronger but most people leave them on 24 hours a day 365 days a year. Given how infrequently i use my microwave, I would be rather more concerned with the cumulative effects of year-in year-out exposure to WIFI router emissions. However, even there I am not really concerned. However, I still wouldn’t carry a pocket wifi in my pocket next to my gonads.




        2
  14. While moving my microwave further away from me on the counter to prevent radiation exposure I accidentally dropped it on my foot! So I went to the doctor and he prescribed diathermy treatment for the injury. You just can’t win! ;-)




    4
    1. Wait a minute…
      Did you use your cell phone to call your doc……or was it in the microwave at the time…
      WE may have multiple organ failure here ;)




      3
  15. This entire document by WHO is a good read and compliment to the video in my opinon. The FDA has a similiar one.
    Yes I am a big big fan of WHO about around the time of their stateing lunchmeat was a known cancer causeing agent….a big big big fan….they looked the beast in the eye(big meat) and did not blink.




    2
  16. Hey alef1
    That also is not very popular…..any more advice for Dr Greger?
    How about me…any advice for me.

    Just askin.
    You know my spelling goes way south if I think my audience is not so bright.
    So lets experiment…hey alef1…Go F%^ yourself….
    Damn happens every time.

    Like rate up to 30 yet?
    Just askin




    0
      1. You mean it does not take much to get you to show your real face.

        No doubt about it I have a temper. Real face no. I tend to be affable and happy mostly.




        2
        1. But really I should not be blaming alef1. It could well be another just using his statement for purpose.
          I am sorry alef1 I apologize. But someone has hacked the like button.




          0
    1. ron, just a brief note here – aleph1 has been a highly respected contributor on the NF forums for a long time. He obviously has a science background, and has consistently helped to answer questions here in an eloquent, but always humble, manner . I for one am grateful for the time and effort he spends at this site.

      There would be no hacking of like buttons. On controversial issues you can see numbers over 50. The person who addressed Dr Greger about his use of “like” was referring to Dr Greger’s habit of using the word “like” repeatedly while speaking. Nothing to do with like buttons.




      5
      1. I apologized for my comment to alef1. It was a premature judgement.
        As to hacking, no you are firmly wrong in that. 40 plus positive comments on a issue that is relatively obscure and the other comments to both sides barely get above the teens, is simply not normal.
        Dr Greger may get large numbers of qualification like that but he runs the site and it is to be expected. Peoples voicing his opinions as well as they reflect him. Adverserial comments to Dr Greger 40 plus likes….not going to happen.
        The software to do this is really very cheap comparatively if you are in the business of this thing of influencing opinion. He may just be being used by someone who wants to represent his side…and I clearly state that above. It may not be him doing this.Some comments here are adversarial to microwaves, I could reasonably see maybe a number in the teens 40 plus…not going to happen unless hacking is the cause. There is no groundswell of opinion against microwaves except in very small circles of people…very small.

        As to you expressing opinion on this…..I saw on the first thread you were quite willing to take the word of someone stating they are a expert as they claim such. They may well be I do not know, but on the specific of cleaning the door gaskets so they will not leak…check the WHO documentation which I have linked and quoted at times and you will find they do exactly recommend that. This fellow may be what he says he is but it goes against published recommendations of the FDA and the WHO.

        So you seem to take the word of any person claiming authority or who appears to speak here in a scientific like fashion.
        My suggestion is to go to you tube or the internet at large and you will find many examples of peoples expressing scientific like qualifications for subjects as diverse as flat earth to denial of climate change …that they may seem to make sense and have authority does not make it fact.

        So you are voicing opinion on a apology I have already offered for really no reason as it is present just above.
        And your position…it is not a tenable one.




        0
        1. I suggest you rein it in there ron. You have made huge assumprions about me and my beliefs. At no time have I expressed an opinion on using microwave safety. I don’t own one. I have no need for one. I couldnt care less what any agency has to say about them.. other than they blinded God knows how many beagles in testing for cataracts.

          I only said that aleph1 is a well respected contributor who has assisted many folks on NF forums to find answers to questions. Just so you know.




          3
          1. On the other thread the one published just before this one,someone named susan versed opinion to confirm the opinion of another person who stated they were a expert possessing a master degree in this field of qualification stating this and that about door function.
            Someone named Susan could be another susan I guess it is possible reaffirmed that opinion which contradicted my comments on keeping door gaskets clean.

            Do I really have to go copy cut and paste that to put it here to prove that?
            It is possible there are two susans so I may suggest a slight change to your log in if there are but just go to the thread read through it and you will find it. I suppose I could cut copy paste but it is easier for you just to go read the thing.

            On me reigning in…you are here making statements on things I have already appologized for to another not you. No comment was made to you or about you. t suggest you reign in.

            Alef1 could rightfully make a comment of objection, or a moderator could you are not him and do not speak for him nor are a moderator.




            0
            1. Enough already ron! There are several susans that post here. One of them uses a capital S , and anothet does not. I told you I offered no opinions on microwaves. Let it go.




              2
              1. Instead of you kindly stating tha…..t you claim I must let it go. Who is intrusive here me or you?. Who is correcting me on a thing I have apologized for me or you?
                Who?
                I suggest you let it go. You are attached to this thing for some reason not clear. That is not my business but is your business.
                Yes let it go stop bothering me about a thing I have appoiogized already for.
                Did you not read the apology? Does it not exist?




                0
                1. Ron you are really out of line with susan, she didn’t say anything disrespectful to you nor did she accuse you of anything. You have a lot posts here and it’s hard to keep up with the order of things. You seemed to be making accusations here over other opinions or continued concerns about microwaves. I think the discussion is good and people will choose their own stance and that’s fine.
                  Normally you don’t come across this way but you seem really frustrated under this video in some of your posts and I think all susan was trying to do was let you know about alef1’s background and history here, then you accused her of something.
                  I’m not saying this to cause trouble or insult you, I like a lot of your posts. I understand topics can get heated but I had to say something because I don’t think you were being fair with susan. She has a right to comment like anyone else.




                  3
                    1. Your concern does you great credit Jerry but the evidence seems to suggest that once again you have firmly grasped the wrong end of the stick

                      “All together, these findings suggest that chronic high-fat feeding promotes negative emotional states and potentiates condition for enhanced sensitivity to stress that leads to continuous repetitive cycles of overeating, weight gain, and depressed mood.”
                      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4150387/




                      2
                  1. Susan is commenting on my behavior not on my substance matter of discussion. I have already apologized on that specific to aldf1. I did not nor will go to any of susans posts and comment on her nor them. I have not done so..
                    So clearly she is intruding on me not me on her.

                    If you read what I commented upon as out of line I say oh well.

                    I think you may have commented on this matter as well to the negative. Could be another s as I admitted above there may be two susans may be another s. So if it is not please tell me.
                    But if it was you. You stated you would never use one if there is any chance of radiation and do not use one.
                    That is counter to my opinion and you may be personalizing this discussion to discredit my point of view.

                    If that is you.
                    In any event your comment is considered on my behavior and found wanting. I have no opinion on your behavior it is not my concern nor the subject matter of this discussion.




                    0
                    1. Lol ron you’re getting too worked up! Actually yes there are two S’s here, but I only ever saw one post a while ago. Anyways, yes, I will not use a microwave, that is me. I’m totally fine with the fact that you think they’re safe, they probably are just as safe as Dr. Greger illustrates in this video, but I have concerns. It’s not a debate really, it’s a matter of information and what each individual decides based on that information. I think both sides (those who think microwaves are fine and those who’d prefer to avoid them) have relevant points and there is no “win,” it’s strictly a matter of personal choice. I have no desire to discredit anyone, that’s ridiculous. My comment to you on this particular matter was because all susan was saying was that alef1 wouldn’t tamper with like buttons and that an above commenter was referring to Dr. Greger’s use of a word (one which I hadn’t noticed) and you took it personally. You’re being overly defensive about this and there’s really no need. This isn’t some huge debate, at least not to me. Truly a matter of personal preference and discussions on the matter can only help people make up their own minds. No winning or losing sides, just choices and civil discussions. I will never use a microwave, this shouldn’t be construed as me challenging someone who does nor should they assume I’m saying they’re putting themselves in danger over it. The video comforts me since I have a lot of loved ones who use them, but once more, I will not due to reasons I explained in my post about it.




                      3
        2. On the hacking one site I know Reader Supported News a political site had a similar like dislike button. You may go to their website and read their new log in procedure to see to what extend peoples have gone to influence opinion. They had to redo the whole thing. During the election they were subject to varying attacks by various operatives of all sorts. The like dislike button was not exempt from that. Typically during off hours early morning 3 AM and such they would receive gross increases in like dislikes depending on topics.

          This is our internet world now I use just that one example as it is the most overt I know of and they openly admitted to compromise when most do not. But it is everywhere and differing sites take differing responses. The Guardian responded by limiting discussionable topics to just a few…so response varies, and they did not state publically cause.

          Dr Greger went main stream media wise Jan 11…he is now known of and bound to be the object of attention when once he was not.
          If I must make up some qualification so you will believe that to be true I could perhaps do that so you would. But no I will not do that…it is true and a study of the releases by Snowden and others currently will show that. All you have to do is read in depth what they have released…this is fact.

          Opereatives of corporate governmental and even fringe group will hack sites and do things to influence perception.Varying means are used to include actual peoples on sites to influence discussion and bots to do things like influence like dislike qualification. The SEC on their recent internet issue received over a million comments against net neutrality continuance by such means…that is a easily verifyable and current check it. Everyone knows it was done and who did it..it was corporate interest.




          0
          1. On microwaves and beagles….

            Microwaves are undisputably more energy efficient than conventional ovens by many times over. If one is concerned for animal welfare, not just pets but animals in general species are being put out of commission rendered extinct almost daily by consequences of global warming.
            It may be argued but I claim a microwave for cooking is the preferred method currently if we want to express concern for animal welfare.
            It helps us reduce our carbon imprint.

            Critical now. We cannot control government we can control our personal actions. Being vegan and vegan in diet can influence this thing of warming. Many are vegan now for strictly that reason to reduce carbon imprint. Microwaves can be part of that.
            So Yes I have agenda is supporting their use.




            0
            1. I fully expect this last part will be ignored. As we try to ignore the intrusive effects of global warming. Till comes the day and it is coming when us or our pets are personally affected by this horrible thing we create. Then we will not ignore it.

              When the floods drought food shortages or immigrants caused by this thing come at our door…then we will pay attention to it. Till then our oven use our gas use our clothes dryer use our whatever use will not matter to us much at all.

              Then suddenly it will.
              Yes microwaves we need to use them if we can right now. It helps….like being vegan it helps.




              0
  17. My understanding is that the Earth, Sun and Moon naturally emit small amounts of microwave radiation. It is a small proportion of the total thermal and light etc radiation but I have not been able to find any figures. Then there is the ubiquitous Cosmic background. microwave radiation.

    Does anybody have any data on this? I imagine that the total amounts are very, very small but I wonder how the average amounts a person is exposed to over a year compare to the amounts recieved from the “normal” use of a microwave oven over a year.




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  18. Personally I find this is reason enough to continue to avoid microwaves. I knew no matter what it said about leakage that I was going to continue not to use them because any amount of radiation leakage, no matter how minute, is not something I’d regularly want to be around or ever be around if I can help it. My thinking is, when I prepare food, I’m preparing something to nourish my body, something that hopefully both protects my DNA and helps repair it. So using a device that may cause any (no matter how small) damage to my DNA to prepare that food is in contradiction of why I’m feeding myself in the first place. And because in the modern world we have to be around so much of this stuff already, why would I want to add extra exposure when it’s so easy to simply use an oven or stove to do the same thing. I also don’t like the idea of it for the environment. I mean if you think of all the microwaves there are as almost everyone in the western world owns one, and you add up all that daily leakage, what does that do? Convenience isn’t always the most important thing despite our warped perception on the matter, however it hasn’t inconvenienced me at all to use the stove top and oven instead of the microwave. Yes the oven takes longer, so I just put it in earlier.




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    1. I think it is at least arguable that the risk of injury from conventional cooking methods – frying, boiling, steaming, grilling etc etc – is considerably higher than the possible risk of adverse health effects from microwaving food.

      There is also no real evidence that microwaving causes disease in humans whether in absolute terms or relative to other cooking methods. We do on the other hand have some evidence that frying, BBQing and grilling for example appear to increase risk for some diseases..

      Having said that, I confess that I didn’t own a microwave for years and have only started using one again recently. Even so, I only use it infrequently and only for defrosting. I still boil and steam as my primary cooking methods.




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  19. The negative side is perhaps…energy use. I know we can’t fight the thing of global warming by ourselves and we only do what we can but really it seems a whole lot less energy is used for microwaves than running a oven for quite some time. I am no environmental purist we all waste energy but.
    You heat the object not the air above or below the object. Like a space heater as opposed to heating a whole house.

    So it is not just convenience always.. If there was a compelling reason not to use one I could see it.




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    1. As to health hazard I would venture the greatest threat in consideration of background radiation is radon. Specific geologies emit at differing rates. Inhaled consistently to my opinion it is a very high risk element for lung cancer.
      So if I was worried I would check for that if in radon prone areas on a ground level apt or house.




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  20. Sometime between 1978 and 1980 The New Yorker published a series of 2 or 3 articles on microwaves.
    The first was on microwave radiation from Russia, drawing information I believe on cardiovascular disease directly related to concentric circles with increasing intensity of microwave radiation. Another article discussed the incidence of cataracts in a non-typical area of the eye’s lens as a result of exposure to microwave radiation.

    I know this is decades old, but the author(s) must have had references, and The New Yorker should be able to provide you with them. The articles were very interesting, caused me to postpone buying a nicrowave oven for at least a year, and I never stood in front of one when it was operating, or allowed my children to do so, and nobody ever watched anything cooking in the microwave.
    Now microwave ovens are routinely mounted at eye or head level above stove tops – a very dangerous place to put them – for brain and eye exposure.




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    1. Yes, but the amount of radiation needed to cause cataracts is so high that you’d have to spend a fair bit of time with your nose pressed against the microwave ovn door to have any appreciabke risk

      “Additionally, the lens of the eye is particularly sensitive to intense heat, and exposure to high levels of microwaves can cause cataracts. But these types of injuries – burns and cataracts – can only be caused by exposure to large amounts of microwave radiation.”
      https://www.fda.gov/Radiation-EmittingProducts/ResourcesforYouRadiationEmittingProducts/ucm252762.htm

      This has been known for a long time – as you write, decades – but we all love a good scare story
      https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/355713?redirect=true




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    2. Exposure to some forms of radiation to the head and neck area can trigger an irregular heartbeat hours later in people who are sensitive.




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      1. Atrial fib…..is very common in older folks. Anticoagulants should be taken as blood clotting is a likely result if untreated.

        Minor A fib may also exist when one is excessively fatigued or is under some sort of other stressor temporarily.This is not significant.

        Curiously, a book has been written about this A Fib presents in a increased fashion in those who have performed cardio stressing endurance activities such as long distance bike racing marathon running as perhaps a hobby or profession. WE normally think of those things as being cardio protective.Only the serious athletes however.
        It may lead to other cardiac related heart problems even perhaps a heart attack if the clotting presents in a coronary artery, untreated.
        A stroke or pulmonary embolism is also possible.

        Supplements such as DHEA Pregnelone and steroids may precipitate this in healthy individuals who are susceptible to it. Usually it remediates upon discontinuance..
        Certain viruses even a flu may damage the heart in a fashion and cause this condition. It is a conductive disturbance but in the atrium. So it has not the mortal consequence of a conductive disturbance in the ventricles which precipiates as ventricular fib…which is fatal if not intervened with.by medical action such as electroshock.




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  21. Okay so microwaves are safe to use if the door is closed, but what about our food on the inside. Does the food get radiated and get depleted of nutrients?




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    1. No and a bit less than other cooking methods.
      Quary best cooking methods in the search box above and a Dr Greger video on the subject will show up.




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  22. For goodness sake, everyone, “microwaves” and “microwave ovens” are different things. How about we all start writing what we actually mean?




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  23. There are different types of radiation from a microwave oven. Low frequency radiation comes from the cooling fan motor and from the motor that turns the turn-table. Some radiation comes from the 60 cycle power supply for the microwave. These levels are quite low, and are regulated by FCC regulations part 15. Interference with other electronics, including am radios and monitors, most likely comes from these very low levels of radiation. The microwave frequency used for the heating is a much higher frequency, perhaps around 2.4 ghz, which is close to the frequency used by one of the Wi-Fi bands (the other band is 5 ghz, which is not used by microwaves). It is also close to the frequency used by many devices such as wireless land-lines and remotes. It is also close to the frequency used by the highest frequency band for 4g lte cell phones. Cell phones also use much lower frequencies. NutritionFacts.org has cited studies showing that cell phone radiation can change alpha brain patterns, and although the frequency of the phones was not noted, it probably was closer to 900 mhz. I suspect that the microwave radiation at about 2.4 ghz is of the greatest concern. If you want to protect yourself, do not open the door of the microwave to turn it off. Instead, turn it off and then open the door. Do not linger too close to the microwave while it is running. For additional, superfluous protection, cover the front with aluminum foil while it is running, or put it in a metal box, but do not block the cooling vents.




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    1. No offense good comment but I thought this funny…
      One could also perhaps put tin foil in the formation of a hat and wear it around if one was very concerned about this thing of radiation…just sayin….

      Really some do that. Perhaps one or two posting here ;)




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      1. One could perhaps wearing that, the tin foil hat and of course some sunglasses to protect the eyes, and in fact then go to a neighbors house wearing that and ask them to call our cell phone that was sitting in our microwave with the door to it shut, ands perhaps tin foiled as well.

        Would they think us odd you suppose?. AS we carefully explained to them this is necessary for science.
        Would their next call upon our departure be perhaps to the authorities ;).

        I expect it would be.




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      2. You can actually buy a disposable poncho that shields from electromagnetic radiation.  It does not protect the face very well, but it would work best if you wear it and turn your back on the microwave.




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  24. If you trust the science against the safety of microwaves,….. ask yourself why the WHO is quite willing to take on big agriculture, with the biggest lobbying influence over government in the world, by making their statement of lunchmeat being cancer causing, quite willing to take on the cell phone industry with the biggest corporation in the world as a opponent, but for some unknown reason are not willing to say a thing about microwave ovens.

    And microwave ovens have been around since the 1960’s.Not like they have not had a chance to review the studies.

    It just does not make sense to think there is good science they are willfully ignoring.
    You can perhaps not trust our FDA anymore particularly now. Nor some EU extensions of government. But WHO?
    The only peoples stating things against the WHO are basically those who are voicing against One World government, that crowd.Tjey see the WHO as a part of that as they work from the base of the UN.

    WE may choose to voice against that but really it is seperate from the work of the WHO.




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    1. To add I do have agenda in this thing. In this specific I think those of us who are vegan who may be just a select few here or may be many, have in this thing a reason to engage the use of microwaves and choose them as opposed to other forms of cooking for many (but not all) food items.

      Humans are animals also and our pursuit is to bring from harm all animals all things as much as possible.
      If this thing did harm humans I would not use it nor would I suggest my kids may. .
      In this situation we know more harm will come in production of carbon from not using this thing than using. Less energy is used. And more production of carbon is real harm, to humans and animals.

      Real harm will come if we in our decision choose more carbon producing things as opposed to less when they serve probably the same function. We cannot be completely environmentally pure in things but in this cooking microwaves serve the same function as a bunch of others.Some select forms of food may only be cooked this or that way to taste good. I am not denying that as well. We occasionally do have to use regular stoves.

      WE do not know of any proven harm from microwaves when used as one normally does.
      This may vary in the specific of normal use with cellphones, which I would suggest as one is considered possibly cancer causing and the other not.
      Cellphones in normal use are put to the head and used. Microwaves, no we stand away from them at least 6 or so inches.
      That in a nutshell is the problem with microwaves and the lack of a problem with microwaves..normal use

      Can we safely use any thing when a alternative is present which serves the same function but produces less carbon ….I say not .
      Time frame of consideration is the only qualifier. The safety of all my descendents will be affected by global warming.
      We cannot be pure in this thing of carbon or safety, but really if one is claiming to care for one or the other the choice is clear.

      Abstracting a statement of concern in review by WHO or the California body of regulation who studies this and similar items.




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  25. Has anybody read “The Body Electric” by Robert Becker? His findings on how the body works and how microwaves effect the body greatly influence how I look at microwaves. Love Dr. Gregers work, but not comfortable with his findings on microwaves.




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  26. My radio, which is situated right next to my microwave, crackles when the microwave is on. To be expected, really. Great article. Thank you.




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    1. The radio is probably not crackling due to microwave radiation, but rather from the cooling fan motor and/or the turntable motor, which is a much lower frequency than microwave radiation.




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  27. Sounds like the Soviets made the best out of a bad situation, after getting caught with The Thing they managed to squeeze another 23 years of use out of it, even after it was gone. Just aim some microwaves at the embassy and just keep fueling that paranoia. Hahaha. Or were they powering other devices? Is the truth out there? :)

    ” The Thing, also known as the Great Seal bug, was one of the first covert listening devices (or “bugs”) to use passive techniques to transmit an audio signal. It was concealed inside a gift given by the Soviet Union to W. Averell Harriman, the United States Ambassador to the Soviet Union, on August 4, 1945. Because it was passive, needing electromagnetic energy from an outside source to become energized and activate, it is considered a predecessor of Radio-Frequency Identification (RFID) technology.[1] ” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)




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  28. I am looking for some insight on beans and gas…. every time I eat beans I get horrible gas. I am already vegan and have been for almost 2 years but the smell is absolutely no different than when I was not vegan.




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    1. Sydney, Dr. Greger actually mentions this issue some have in one of his many videos about beans. In individuals who have this problem with beans, these symptoms go away after regular consumption of them. Have you ever tried consistently eating them for a while?
      Another thing to consider is the cooking methods you’re using. Are you soaking them at least 6 hours and are you cooking them long enough? It’s also said that kombu (you don’t want to have too much of this stuff due to high iodine levels) helps negate the effect, and some canned beans are packed with a bit of kombu in them for this reason. The ones I get from Eden actually do this, but that’s not why I get them, I get Eden organic beans because the cans have BPA free lining and there’s no added salt.




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  29. It is not about exploding food or radiation, it is about changing the molecular structure of the food heated in microwave oven. It does even change the taste of food when it’s heated in a microwave. It is very noticeable on some of foods.




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  30. If people are concerned about microwaves that’s Good, but with electric vehicles shouldn’t they have a priority of being researched they seem to have the potential go expose you to a lot more radiation one would think? Thanks!




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