Doctor's Note

If you missed the first two videos in this series, for the complete saga, see Intravenous Vitamin C for Terminal Cancer Patients and Vitamin C Supplements for Terminal Cancer Patients.

I discuss the conundrum of what do to about funding research of non-patentable natural treatments in Plants as Intellectual Property – Patently Wrong? On one hand, we want therapies to be accessible, but if no one profits off of it, who’s going to fund the necessary research?

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  • Tom Goff

    Thank you for this warts and all review. It is a helpful if sobering summary of the science.

    In terms of non-toxic and inexpensive treatments of cancer, perhaps we ought also to be looking at fasting. This not a panacea – I vaguely recall some reports that, with certain cancers, it exacerbates problems, although lab mice are less capable of enduring lengthy fasting than humans. Nonetheless, there are reports that in humans fasting makes chemotherapy more tolerable and increases the vulnerable of cancer cells to treatment eg
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4595051/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21516129

    • mbglife
    • mbglife

      Tom, just curious what your background or training is in. Were/are you a researcher and do you have any training in the life sciences? You always seem to have great references and a good technical understanding. Thanks for your contributions.

      • Tom Goff

        Thanks. I worked in a national department of health for over 20 years but mainly in programme management (aged care, respite care and palliative care primarily). However, I have no technical training (my qualifications are in the social sciences and arts). That said, what I learnt there was to have a strong commitment to evidence-based health policy and programmes. Plus I had access to many articles/research that are normally hidden behind paywalls.
        Also. writing papers for Government Ministers means that you’d better know the subject matter and where to check out the relevant professional literature. While I had access to and used professional advisers, anybody who is genuinely committed to the job takes the trouble to educate him/herself about health matters generally and how to go about finding the relevant evidence.

        • mbglife

          Thanks, Tom, for that short bio. It’s great to have you in community board!

          Mark G.

          • Matthew Smith

            Congratulations, Tom, for your life of service to the Federal Government and the American people. I am also very interested in working with the aging. Did you know that two grams of Niacin is the prefect statin? It idealizes blood lipids, and is nearly free. To publish a paper that statins are better, Merck had to discount the increase in HDL, saying HDL is not important. There still was a reduction in death in the Niacin group. Perhaps three grams was too much in this study. I majored in botany, but am a Virgo rooster so I am of course obsessed with medicine. I knew a few premeds in college. After organic chemistry, I knew medicine was not for me, not when I could be with plants. I love plants. Here I can read about plants and medicine. It is heaven. I can even see, somewhat, how doctors still use plants as medicine. Did you know that one quarter of our drugs come from plants, and an additional quarter did at one point? Most statins come from mold, apparently. Perhaps this mold is a source of Nitrogen. Nitrogen seems to be a fuel for mitochondria. They like to take its inherit ability to bond and turn it into an amino acid. Ribosomes like to do the same, with Carbon, so D3 is very good for your ribosomes. I love hearing that plants can be medicine. I am so sorry to hear that their is no nutrition in medical school when nutrition seems to be medicine itself. What is the perfect food? Is it an unprocessed food? Is a food grown on a nutrient rich soil? Genetic engineering is wrong to me, if the point is to get it to have more nutrition. Plants grown with more elements and less processing would probably be a cure for many ailments. Almost every disease has a D3 deficit at its roots.

  • Noe Marcial

    this series of vitamin C it was worst than the trilogy Millennium of Stieg Larsson!! haha thank you!

    • Joe Caner

      I didn’t see or read the last segment of the series. Let me guess: It doesn’t end well.

  • Noe Marcial

    Just wanted to share, we did a diy tredmill desk for my father following the example of michael greger.
    and we have began the year with the goal of lost 30 kilograms in a year with a strict whole food plant based diet.
    https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/photo/116214361485791217675/6238519887569112914?authkey=CNrI-bmk-4jIcA

    thank you for the last year of learning to all the NF team.

    • galaxio

      Thank you, dear

  • Joe Caner

    2.1% effectiveness; bleeding gums, hair loss and likely accelerated death; all for the low low price of $100,000+?
    Pass the snake oil please.

    • Alan

      Right on Joe !!!

      • Joe Caner

        Thank you Alan.

    • Fred J Pollack

      The 2.1% comes from the 2004 paper that Dr. Greger used in this video. Here is the link:
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15630849 – which I got from the “Sources cited” link.

      Note that the database that they used in this study was from 1998.

      Since then, there have been a plethora of new chemo drugs. I have not done the research to determine the effectiveness of the new drugs over the old drugs. However, if I was put in the situation that myself or a loved-one had cancer, and the doctor was advocating chemo, I first do the research on the specific cancer, and the various chemo drugs used to combat it. And use that info to balance the pros and cons.

      In the mean time, prevention is the best course, and the best prevention is to eat a LF-WFPB diet (which my wife and I do), with specific emphasis on the foods advocated on this website and Dr. Greger’s “How Not to Die” book.

      • Joe Caner

        The 2.1% 5 year survival rate for chemotherapy patients does sounds shockingly low. If those numbers are correct, it would be morally and ethically indefensible for anyone to prescribe the treatment by those familiar with that prognosis.

        As far as a LF-WFPB diet is concerned, I whole heartedly agree that it is an excellent prescription for prevention, and per Dr. Greger’s “Cancer Reversal Through Diet?” ( http://nutritionfacts.org/video/cancer-reversal-through-diet/ ), an effective treatment option.

        • Crock-a-dial

          You may want to look at my analysis of that study below, if you haven’t already. That 2.1% stat is a favorite of many alternative medicine proponents – you find it cited all over the internet, but few will actually dig in and see how they arrived at that figure.

          • Joe Caner

            Thank you for posting a link to that particular study. The NIH link only lead to the abstract. From the study, it is clear to see that there are cancers such as Hodgkin’s disease and testicular cancer that seem to respond to chemotherapy. There are other cancers, such as pancreatic cancer which took my grandmother nine months after diagnosis, that are cancers that are clearly not a good candidates for chemo.

            Your point is well take. Responsible medicine would be the use of chemotherapy to treat cancers that respond well to it, OR improve the quality of a patients life. Responsible medical reporting would be to give information that would arm those who need the information so that they can make informed treatment decisions. I agree with that.

            Unfortunately, in my grandmother’s case, I don’t believe that chemotherapy was responsibly employed. It served to neither appreciably extender her life, nor to improve the quality of what remained of it. The loss of my grandmother was a tragedy, but what was more tragic was the needless suffering she endured from the treatment that she received. We can’t go back and those replay events to find out if she would suffered more or less by not receiving those treatments, and you are correct in saying that there are nasty side effects from cancer, but my take away from my grandmother’s experience was that I do not want to die like that.

            I wish I can say that this was an isolated experience, but it was not. I have seen it repeated several times by other relatives, friends and friend’s family. I have to imagine that I am not alone in this. Neither chemo nor this video frightens me. It is needless suffering inflicted regardless of the motivation, and all the loss of human dignity that implies.

            I wish you and your mother the best possible outcomes during these challenges.
            Best Regards, Joe

          • Crock-a-dial

            Thanks for your comments and well wishes for my mom.

            Yeah, I don’t doubt that chemo often gets used at times or in ways it shouldn’t be. (I commented on palliative chemotherapy elsewhere in this discussion and pointed out that it is widely used, but remains an ongoing area of study.) When you tell about your grandmother and say, “I do not want to die like that” – that’s a perfectly legitimate decision, but I trust that if you’re ever in that situation that you’ll make your decisions with all the best and most up-to-date information at the time instead of being scared off by a previous bad experience with chemo. In my mom’s case, her mother died horribly from breast cancer when she was just a girl, and Mom has been scared off of chemo and radiation ever since. I don’t want to overplay their benefits, but I don’t want her to dismiss them out of hand or to think that we haven’t made any progress with this since the 1960s.

            We all have to die sometime, of course, so our ultimate hope is not in medicine. (Mine is in my Lord Jesus.) Nevertheless, it’s actually quite encouraging if you go to: http://progressreport.cancer.gov/after/survival
            You can see charts of the survival rates of the top kinds (sites) of cancer and the 5-yr survival rates from 1975 to 2007.
            Colon and rectum: up from ~49% to ~66.5%.
            Lung and bronchus: up from ~11.4% to ~18.2%.
            Breast cancer (female): from ~75% to over ~91%.
            Prostate cancer: from ~66% to 99.7%! [no doubt some of this is due to modern over-diagnosis]
            All cancer sites: from ~49% to ~69%.

          • Joe Caner

            I’m doing those things that I believe will position my health to where I will not be faced with that choice by engaging in behaviors that are health promoting and disease preventative. These behavior patterns are supported research based evidenced. I received a quite a bit of that information from this website, and although, it is not my only source of information, it is an an excellent and important one. I use the word “belief” because I am of the opinion we really don’t know anything, not for sure. I am operating based upon those beliefs and faith which is why I have adopted a WFPB diet.

            For instance, I believe that in general modern western medicine is a good option for acute conditions, and not so much for chronic conditions. I believe in the old maxim, “let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food,” and that life style interventions can have powerful, profound and beneficial effects. If I were to unquestioningly accepted my doctors treatment option, I would weight considerably more, I would be less healthy and be on a life long course of statin drugs.

            Now my belief system is one that can cut both way, but it is currently serving me well.

          • Thea

            Crock-a-dial: You have gotten a lot of push-back for your ideas. Strong arguments are fully embraced at NutritionFacts, but they are often hard to do civilly. Given that you are holding up one end of the conversation mostly on your own, I wanted to thank you for keeping it civil.

            And I wanted to respond to the 5 year survival rate figures. It’s my understanding that those figures are very misleading. a) False positives occur for more cancers than just prostate cancer. b) Also, with the types of screenings we are doing now, we are catching and treating masses that would never have grown to cancer. c) And we are catching masses earlier. The 5 year statistics start at diagnoses. Diagnose earlier and sure enough, it looks like people are living longer. If I remember correctly, the second half of the following talk addresses these points:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcHQElKhWFc

            I’m honestly not taking a position on this discussion in general. I don’t know enough to do so. But I did know something about the 5 year statistics and wanted to put my 2 cents in on that.

          • livewire

            Add to that the fact that there are a few labs where you can send samples of the cancer and they will be tested to see which chemo drugs work on a specific cancer and which don’t. Some actually feed cancers in certain people! Yet few doctors use these. There is one lab in LA, one in Germany and one in Greece, though that may have changed since I last heard about it a few years ago. Of course, this type of testing isn’t covered by Medicare and possibly not by other insurance, though it could save insurance companies money that would be wasted on drugs that don’t work.

        • livewire

          In 2010 I was diagnosed with an aggressive triple negative breast cancer. My son, who lives in London, has a medical oncologist friend who lives in Rome. He set up a Skype call for the three of us. The oncologist was a very kind hearted, feeling woman and we talked for an hour and a half. She admitted that chemo only nets a 2% chance of living five years! Yikes! Isn’t the placebo effect better than that? I’ve even read of studies where doing nothing netted a longer life than chemo, though that likely depends on the type of cancer.

          I do believe that using IV vitamin C has to be part of a much more comprehensive program involving diet, stress handling, support of family or friends, rest, exercise, spiritual connection, and other supplements. An excellent book that talks about how spontaneous remissions ALWAYS involve such changes is Radical Remissions. They really aren’t so spontaneous after all. It’s just that all these other therapies cancer patients do aren’t considered important, yet they are crucial!

          • Joe Caner

            It is wonderful that you are here nearly six years later to write about your experiences. Since hearing about it, I have always been fascinated by the reputed success of the Budwig Protocol which involves daily consumption of a porridge made from quark (similar to cottage cheese), honey, fruit, ground flax and flax oil. I’ve been a long time consumer of flaxseed due to its omega-3 content which is why I found Budwig’s treatment interesting. What if it is the high levels of flaxseed consumption is the cause factor which makes the Budwig Protocol is efficacious?

            According to the research sited in Dr. Greger’s video, Can Flax Seeds Help Prevent Breast Cancer? ( http://nutritionfacts.org/video/can-flax-seeds-help-prevent-breast-cancer/ ), found “that flax appears to have the potential to reduce human breast tumor growth in just a matter of weeks.” He posits a mechanism for “why flaxseeds may play a role in preventing and treating breast cancer, there’s an inflammatory molecule called interleukin-1, which may help tumors feed, grow.” And that flax is very effective at binding the interleukin-1 receptors. In fact, “[o]ne month of flax was able to increase the anti-inflammatory inhibitor levels by over 50%, better than even the drug” tamoxifen.

          • livewire

            Joe, thanks for the reminder about flax seed. I need to get back on those.

            I wish it were simple to tell you all the things I’ve done. When one thing didn’t work well (on testing, usually) I started another. Probably the things that have been most effective have been the vegan diet, most of the time, some supplements, though those have changed over time. I brought my vitamin D3 levels up. I usually walk 30-60 minutes daily. I use a rebounder, especially if I’ve been sitting too long, to help move lymph.

            In the beginning I used the Gerson therapy, which is fresh veggie juices 13 times a day along with coffee enemas, specific foods at meals, Lugol’s solution for iodine, and a few other things. This has worked well for some melanoma patients and others, but my tumor doubled in two months! Yikes!

            By that point I was getting heavy pressure from EVERYBODY to DO SOMETHING. They didn’t see the things I was doing as doing anything. So I went to An Oasis of Healing in Arizona and had Insulin Potentiation Therapy, which is low dose chemo given after insulin had lowered blood sugar sufficiently to open insulin receptors on the tumor. I also had 100 grams of IV vitamin C twice weekly, raw vegan diet, sauna, colon hydrotherapy and a few others. This shrunk the cancer considerably, but it quickly regrew after only a few months at home.

            But it didn’t show on a PET scan, proving to me that not all cancers require sugar to grow, since it’s the sugar in the cancer that lights up the PET scan. I wasn’t eating any sugar and only a few low glycemic berries. So, I didn’t really believe it was cancer (don’t we love to fool ourselves?) Eventually, after another year or so it did show in one lymph node. At that point I couldn’t afford to make any more expensive trips for therapy so I chose an oncologist in Seattle who gave lower dose chemo weekly instead of heavy doses every three weeks. He had had some success with my type of cancer and was quite open to using alternatives along with his therapies. I really like Dr Chue, who I see as a real humanitarian.

            By then three years had passed and I agreed to a mastectomy. I convinced the surgeon to take minimal lymph nodes because I didn’t want to have lymphedema. He still took a bunch, but left a bunch, and there was a cell or micrometastasis in seven lymph nodes. The chemo had shrunk the cancer but there was still live cancer in the main tumor, despite all that chemo that I didn’t want to take in the first place, and despite it not showing on scans. At some point you end up going with what insurance will pay for and doing the best you can for yourself at home.

            I should say here that surgery causes cancer to metastasize, though sometimes it is crucial to have surgery. I did several things to help prevent that, including having a paravertebral block, which is anesthesia given in the spinal region that numbs the breast. That way they give far less general anesthesia and I never needed any narcotic pain meds, which also stimulate cancer growth and metastases.

            I’ve since done a drug called Tetrathiomolybdate, which chelates copper, since copper is required for cancer to metastasize. It was tough because whenever my copper got down to therapeutic levels my immune cells and platelets would plummet. I eventually stopped it.

            I also used medical cannabis, and I could write an article about that! I’ll just say folks, if you want to seriously use cannabis as a medicine you need to live in California. Nobody in this state (at least at the time) was truly treating it as medicine, so that each dose was measured. On a trip to California, where my cousin was using medical cannabis, also for breast cancer, I used hers for a few days. It was a tincture and each dose was a measured amount and I didn’t feel any psychoactive effects from it. Back home I couldn’t find anything like that in Washington. I was half stoned all the time and one day I woke up so out of it I had to sit in the recliner for three days! End of cannabis treatment. I must say, I am homozygous for MTHFR, which makes clearing toxins through the liver pretty slow and ineffective, so others might not have that problem. I should also say that I could have taken cannabis with mostly CBDs, which don’t cause psychoactive effects, but the doctor I was working with, who had a lot of experience with cannabis, said the latest research showed using both THC and CBDs worked best.

            Now I’m just trying to eat well, exercise, take a few supplements like vitamin D3, since sunshine is a rare commodity up here much of the year, avoid stress, enjoy life, and tend my spirit.

            Should the cancer come back I would consider doing the NORI Protocol, which strictly limits methionine.

            I’m sure I’ve rambled too long, but it has been a rambling journey. If my experience can help anyone else I’m happy to have shared it.

          • Joe Caner

            It is a privilege. Thank you so very much for sharing your experiences. The NORI Protocol sounds intriguing ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3ZLRYMXkm8 ), and there does seem to be a lot of good research to support it from a theoretical perspective. Dr. Greger has posted more than a few videos on this very site that go into methionine restriction as a means of combating cancer: ( http://nutritionfacts.org/?s=methionine )

            Is there any reason that you’ve elected not to follow a NORI Protocol diet now?

          • vegnurse

            Just another food for killing off breast cancer thought. Dr G’s video on broccoli sprouts showed to me that along with flax and the broccoli sprouts and the plant based diet I have a much better chance to beat breast cancer than Vit C or chemo.

  • mitch96

    Seems with the relative “inexpensive” cost of IV Vit C, some insurance company or countries would fund this study to save money… Unless, of course they are being controlled by Big Pharma…

    • Wilma Laura Wiggins

      It seems the last thing insurance companies want is to save money. Don’t ask me why just look at what they do. Controlled by Big Pharma ….hhmmmm

  • HemoDynamic, MD – NF Volunteer

    Back to square one. . .Eat more plants!

    I would say Eat ONLY Plants! Especially since this engenders the lowest risk of getting cancers in the first place.

    • Karl Young

      I’ll raise a piece of broccoli to that !

      That reminds me of all the excitement surrounding the new potential Alzheimer’s drug that will presumably treat inflammation (ironic that an MD I knew used to push the idea that neurodegeneration in general was a white matter disease, and he’d get laughed out of the room… hope he’s around now to gloat). What about trying to prevent inflammation in the first place ? To paraphrase Dr. Greger there’s no money in that (on either end, i.e. big food or big pharma).

      • Matthew Smith

        Melatonin and Lupron (for women) might be effective treatments for Alzheimer’s. Is there a link between balding and Alzheimer’s? Both might have an Iron deficit at its roots. Perhaps Iron supplementation would be appropriate for Alzheimer’s, given the link between anemia and dementia. The ultimate cause of death in Alzheimer’s, and maybe everybody, is a B12 deficit.

  • MartinNovotny

    Great series, Dr. Greger!!! No surprise for me (I do my own liposomal C for me, my family and recommend it for my clients as well – not that there would not be even stronger antioxidants, but getting enough chaga mushroom is a way more difficult and pricey than to get i.e. high-quality extract from acerola…), but getting this message spread over channels like yours (will thousands of subscribers) calls for both, Nobel price for Bravery and Nobel price for Medicine, regardless that you just interpreted the data of previous clinical trials…

  • philosurfer

    I didn’t hear a reference to liposomal vitamin C; are there any studies, yet, relating to that?

    • Fred

      They had to pass a law in New Zealand to allow people to take lipoC in terminal cases.

      There is/was a group on Yahoo that involves making one’s own lipoC…using lecithin…vitC…and an ultrasonic cleaner.

      The real stuff (commercial) is supposed to result in high blood levels.

  • Charma1ne

    Thank you very much for the review. Like you say perhaps not all is lost yet.

  • albert

    Here is a good presentation on how to fight cancer nutritionally if somebody missed it http://youtu.be/B9bDZ5-zPtY. Sometimes when I think what I would do if I was diagnosed I think I would likely go intense intermittent fasting, low fat low protein plant-based, lots of garlic, cruciferous, green tea and such (see the video), meditation and exercise too – also remembering Dr. Ornish study of prostate cancer treatment. Would be cool to see some results for the strategies like this.

    • mbglife

      Albert, thanks for the link. I especially like his chart on the percentages for causes of cancers, found at 11:30 minutes into the talk. But I’m a bit confused bcuz he says that 5-10% of cancers are genetic and 90-95 are environmental, and of the 90-95%, 30-35% are caused by diet. But, I thought genes can be up or down related by food and the environment. Plus, he’s only factoring in adding protective foods; he doesn’t discuss removing dangerous foods.

      I saw Dr Li’s TED Talks and his website “eat to defeat cancer” years ago before I found NF. But I lost interest in it because the site wasn’t well maintained, it has info gaps, and wasn’t well designed. And he himself didn’t seem to ‘fully’ follow his own advice (otherwise I don’t think he’d look so pudgy and out of shape). I hope he’s since then evolved and come to understand what a LF-WFPB diet can do, especially with a focus on nutrient dense foods.

  • bobday

    Years ago I heard that linus pauling, while he may have been a great chemist, never actually did research on vitamin c, but was sort of the face of the research in the public eye, and because he had generated so much press they named the institute after him, he didn’t actually start it. I also heard that mouse studies from the LP institute showing cancer remission were only effective at a dosage where 50 % of the mice died. The conclusion of that was that his own wife died of some sort of stomach cancer after taking several grams of the stuff daily for several years (to be fair, they were both on a similar regimen, and he did believe in the stuff,) We were always taught that without the normally accompanying bioflavinoids as moderators, synthetically concentrated vit c was a mutagenic agent. I guess I would ask is any of this true, or was it just a disgruntled researcher spouting sour grapes.

    • Matthew Smith

      Those people lived well into their 90s and were geniuses. You are working with a spin doctor. There is no profit in knocking vitamins. Vitamins are made by the same companies that make drugs. They truly make more money selling vitamins, given the cost of producing drugs. For whom do you work? What do you want? Dr. Pauling was a great man, whom many people say, was right. One day his treatment for heart disease, three grams of Vitamin C and three grams of Lysine (and/or) Proline, will be standard. I am sure, even, his DNA model of a triple helix was right. One of the helixes was RNA. He left us too soon. I could use him to ease my pain. He was truly great. He literally was so ahead of his time he had the world in his pocket. I could be like him. I truly could, because he is a very great man.

      • Matthew Smith

        We don’t know about transmutation yet. That Vitamin C could possibly transmutate into Iron. That Pantothenic Acid could transmutate into Sulfur. That some anti cancer compounds from plants can transmutate into Phosphorus. We don’t know this yet, nor has it even really been proposed. Some people think its possible. The pressure in your heart is astronomical. If Dr. Pauling knew about transmutations, he would surely know that Vitamin C not only acts as Iron, it could be Iron.

  • Joshua Pritikin

    “On one hand, we want therapies to be accessible, but if no one profits off of it, who’s going to fund the necessary research?” — This kind of research is a common good and should be funded by the government. We just need a government that is a bit more sympathetic to the needs of the people that it governs.

    • Wilma Laura Wiggins

      The largest non-profit charity in the world is the American Cancer Society (of the famous pink ribbon, gag me). This is the sort of thing people give them money for, and yet, what have they done in the past 70 years? Before giving them any more money, I suggest you ask what they have done with it so far.

      • Matthew Smith

        They do not work with the NIH Cancer institute, which has a budget of over seven billion dollars. The NIH Cancer institutes sponsors cancer research. I would suggest that they have never told a cancer patient to drink a 12 pack of dark sugar soda, like Pepsi or Coke. Do cancer patents feel prosecuted every half hour on the :15 and :45s? I did. I thought I was a paranoid schizophrenic, which in fact I have. I did indeed have a Phosphorus deficit. The Army had to pay for a bunch of high dose D3 cancer studies. It seems to have a very positive effect on cancer. Perhaps the very positive results with Iron were also surprising. Thank you, Ms. Wiggins.

  • EtienneJ

    Excellent reviews. Thank you!

  • Rhombopterix

    So we have this sorta new paradigm … Dr. Campbell’s “Symphony”. But we are still plugged into the reductionist type trial designs where we isolate one component and see if we’ve found a magic bullet. OK, we don’t need to continue to re-prove WFPB is best. There will always be deniers. How about a following a cohort of WFPB eaters. Half of them get the Symphony. The other half get the Symphony plus … mainline VC.

    Is it fair to ask a vitamin to be the strings, percussion and brass all in one? No it isn’t

  • apprin

    Great review. Dr. Pauling, so-called godfather of vitamin C, obviously performed a degree of due diligence; however, as is often the case, his focus may have been skewed by the tiniest of factors. No doubt, he presumably had reason to believe that vitamin C had great potential. We may learn one day that he missed the mark only slightly, because of a heretofore unseen element, simple combination or obstacle. The human body’s acceptance of vitamin C, combined with the known biological benefits, implies that the immune system is certainly strengthened by it’s use. That being said, increased quantity may not be the missing link to it’s more stellar performance. Calling to mind the use and understanding of curcumin. We had no idea how to increase availability of some nutrients until scientific advances allowed us to peer into the application of piperine in the 1800s. Vitamin C research may have a hit and miss factor and to date, we have been missing. As we hear so often … More research is needed.

    • Matthew Smith

      Vitamin C and Iron make me laugh. The spy vitamins. They are great for life!

  • alef1

    “ Alas, they were left with the inevitable conclusion that the apparent positive results in the original study were the product of bias rather than treatment effectiveness.”

    The inevitable conclusion? Not at all, even if one assumes that Vitamin C has no effect on cancer (which I don’t), given what we know about psychophysiology, one would expect the placebo effect to come into play in a big way, and the placebo effect seems anything but trivial, as thousands of double-blind controlled studies have demonstrated.

    The Vitamin C group of terminal cancer patients participated in a study of a therapy instigated and overseen by an extremely well-respected and well known scientist and a two time Nobel prize winner, who clearly and publicly had made his views about the value of the Vitamin C therapy. These patients had both hope, and a justifiably positive expectation of success.

    The control groups of terminal cancer patients selected from the literature presumably had no such cause for hope. Their doctors had told them they would die by diagnosing them as terminal, giving them no hope. The patients expected to die – and they did die. Just as the placebo effect can heal, the nocebo effect can and does cause harm

    To my find the idea that “the apparent positive results in the original study were the product of bias” seems to me not only overly simplistic, but unjustifiable and a kind of slander, and one last way to discount the remarkable survival improvements achieved by the Cameron and Pauling in the original studies, by bringing into question their competence as researchers.

    To my mind, mind-body effects seems like a much more likely explanation. In many ways modern medicine remains stubbornly mechanistic, with doctors focusing on the physical body only. A car mechanic can get away with this, fixing or replacing broken parts without needing to concern themselves with the vehicles driver, or what the driver thinks or feels. The same does not hold true for medical doctors, who have, as Dr. Greger has pointed out, in combination with the medical industry as a whole, have already become the third leading cause of death in the United States, right
    behind heart disease and cancer.

    Human beings differ greatly from machines, and what we think and how we feel play critical roles in whether we heal and recover from life-threatening illnesses, or wither and die.

    • alef1

      P.S. Those interested in other factors that play a part in cancer survival might want to check out Dr.
      Kelly Turner’s 2014 book Radical Remissions. Building on previous research into “spontaneous remissions” (like Brendan O’Regan’s 1993 700 page compilation of accounts published in the medical literature, Spontaneous Remissions: An Annotated Bibliography) and going a few steps farther,

      Dr. Turner collected validated accounts of extraordinary healings from cancer, and then analyzed these accounts by actually asking the individuals involved what they had done. In her work she makes no apologies for focusing on individuals with extraordinary healing outcomes, and on the strategies they used to achieve such outcomes. These stories do not just seem anecdotal, which to doctors sometimes seems a synonym for unreliable or possibly invented accounts, but factual reports of extraordinary outcomes supported by full medical documentation.

      Regardless of whether these cancer survivors chose conventional or alternative modalities, Dr. Turner found that almost all patients who experienced extraordinary outcomes shared these common denominators:

      1. They radically changed their diets; 2. Took control of their health; 3. Followed their intuition; 4. Used herbs and supplements; 5. Released suppressed emotions; 6. Increased positive emotions; 7. Embraced social support; 8. Deepened their spiritual connection, and 9. Had strong reasons for living.

      • Matthew Smith

        That’s a great way to live. May I live on? I would love to see the purpose of my life. Deeply I wish for it. So courageous.

    • Charzie

      Almost exactly what I was thinking too. People respond to the placebo effect as if it had a negative connotation, and I think the exact opposite…it can be a potent weapon if utilized properly. Our minds and our bodies are not separate, what affects one affects both. Finding out how to tap into this potentially healing force could be a huge bonus for health!

      • Matthew Smith

        I love courage, honor, selflessness, and innocence. I wish to connect to them in life. They are truly abundant in my life!

      • alef1

        As far as finding out how to tap into this potentially healing force, I think the book The Lost Art of Healing: Practicing Compassion in Medicine by Dr. Bernard Lown, (a cardiologist who like Linus Pauling, also won the Nobel Peace Prize) makes real headway in showing how to tap into the placebo – and avoid the nocebo – effect. In my opinion this book has two chapters that every doctor and healer should read and get tested on before getting licensed: “Words that Maim” and “Words that Heal.” And of course every patient, simply as a matter of self-defense, should read them too!

        • Charzie

          Awesome thanks, great to know and I will have to read this…adding it to my library log of musts! It strikes me as so sad that the best healing options, even the ones that have been around for millennia, get buried or suppressed instead of celebrated! I’ve been criticized and accused of sounding like a conspiracy theorist for saying this, but…there is no profit is wellness. Thank goodness there are still people like our beloved Dr G who actually give a damn about the welfare of others, and not just their own bottom line!!!

      • Rebecca Cody

        The placebo effect appears to be much stronger than the 2.1% of healing attributed to chemotherapy.

        • Charzie

          Yeah, pretty pathetic numbers considering it is standard practice. I don’t need randomized controls to know how much suffering it caused…not cured, and in most cases, shortened life, not extended it. I’m sure there are applications where it can work, and I don’t have controlled trials to test the idea, but I’d be willing to bet that things like diet, the placebo effect, biofeedback, massage, nurturing and physical contact, even calling in the shaman… any gentle kind of positive therapy would probably work as well, make life a whole lot nicer and eminently more livable for whatever time one has remaining. What really got my goat was after putting them through all that, getting narcotics to at least dull the pain and suffering was another enormous challenge. Thank goodness for Hospice and the angels there.

          • Wilma Laura Wiggins

            I kind of feel like you do but recently was confronted with St. Jude Hospital’s ad on TV that basically says they cure 3/4 of the kids there. Now that is a huge number I never would have expected, considering they use chemo, radiation, etc. I wonder if those numbers are accurate and if so, what is making the difference. That’s a lot better than 2%

          • Matthew Smith

            Wow. That is a really big difference. They say 90 percent of children with terminal cancer live now to be adults. Does that mean Saint Jude is less effective than the research standard? There were two doctors, Dr. Gerson and Dr. Budwig who has no trouble curing cancer. Gerson used raw calf liver juice and Budgwig used a goat cheese. Those are both rich sources of Phosphorus. Perhaps pumpkin seeds, Coca-Cola, bone broth, or Phosphorus pills would have a similar effect, even for ADHD. 12,000 IU of D3 where also effective at Cancer in Department of Defense studies. I think the idea of Poisoning the body is wrong in cancer, given how effective high dose sugar was. Perhaps the idea of cancer is to nurture, cure, indulge, tickle, and please. Radiation and Chemo, at three percent effective, is exactly wrong. Three percent effective is 100 percent wrong. Thank you for liking my post.

          • Wilma Laura Wiggins

            Matthew, I spent a great deal of time studying the Budwig method, reading material that she personally wrote. A mainstay of her method was cottage cheese mixed with flax seed oil with lots of whole vegetables and fruit. It didn’t need to be goat cheese. I believe the secret to its success was what her patients were no longer eating, as well as the flax seed oil. The Gerson protocol is plant based and entirely organic. I never heard that 90% of children with terminal cancer live to be adults. If so, perhaps they should remove the word terminal. I doubt St. Jude is less effective than the research standard (but admit I never heard of a research standard in this regard either). I believe you are right that radiation and chemo are not the best way to cure cancer, but in light of the results being obtained by St. Jude’s and the research standard, my mind is open that I may be wrong about that.

          • Thea

            Wilma: I can’t say anything specific about St Jude’s claims. But the following talk has helped me to have a lot of skepticism about such claims in general. For example, this speaker does the math and shows how virtually *all* of the claimed advanced in prostate cancer are due to over diagnosis. Meaning that no one is living any longer now than before. I think this is an awesome talk. There are two parts. The second part covers the situation I was discussing here about “over diagnosis”. The talk is a lot more fun and engaging than I’m making it sound.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcHQElKhWFc

  • Fred J Pollack

    December 15, 2015 issue of Science Magazine had a promising article on use of high-dose (IV) dose of Vitamin C on some types colorectal cancer cells. Initial experiments were done with mice. Here is a link to the overview article:

    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/350/6266/1317.full

    And here are the last few sentences of this article:

    “the study by Yun et al. provides a mechanistic rationale for how vitamin C selectively kills KRAS and BRAF mutant colorectal cancer cells. These findings warrant high-dose vitamin C clinical trials with selectivity for patients with a high GLUT1 expression combined with KRAS or BRAF oncogene–induced metabolic reprogramming. After all these years, it seems that Pauling may have been correct on the use of high doses of vitamin C for cancer therapy but for the wrong reasons—not as an antioxidant, but as a pro-oxidant anticancer agent.”

    And, here is the link to the research article (by Yun et al.):

    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/350/6266/1391.abstract

    • Thea

      Fred: very interesting! Thanks for sharing this. I’m guessing this came out after Dr. Greger had done the video. And Dr. Greger usually sticks to the human studies. But this does give a lot more food for thought!

  • James Peters
  • Crock-a-dial

    Dr. G: You’ve said on your FAQ page that if your listeners find an error or something you missed, you want to hear about it. I think in this case, it was completely irresponsible to proliferate the favorite pet statistic of “alternative medicine” proponents. (The one about chemotherapy’s 2.1% contribution to 5-yr survival.) This study uses data from the 1990s to promote a certain conclusion that isn’t fairly derived. I had to recently address this study with my mom, who is scared of chemo and radiation (even though the Dr. hasn’t even called for either in her case) – scared, thanks in part by the huge number of quacks out there with a vested interest in undermining patients’ confidence in evidence-based medicine.

    But you’ll notice that the alternative medicine people don’t cherry-pick sentences from that study like:

    “There is no doubt that chemotherapy and radiotherapy provide good symptom control and improve quality of life.”

    or

    “Surgery is the only established curative treatment for colon cancer…”

    The full study is posted here, for those who’d like to look at it:
    http://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/contribution-of-chemotherapy-to-5-year-survival.pdf

    There’s a major problem with the way the conclusions are stated, in that it’s not really helpful to be told what percentage of ALL cancer patients benefit in ultimate 5-yr survival from chemotherapy. What we need to know is how effective it is in the cases that it’s actually prescribed and used, and does it achieve what we hoped it might, whether or not the patient ultimately survives. Let me see if I can make that clearer in the next 3 paragraphs:

    Chemotherapy isn’t prescribed for all cancer cases, obviously. If, like early stage colon cancer it can be cured via surgery, there’s no reason to use chemo. Or for example prostate cancer: most progresses so slowly that only a few require any type of radical treatment, and that’s generally not with chemo, but rather surgery, radiation, etc. But even if chemo were used much, since most of the people who are diagnosed with prostate cancer are going to end up still being alive 5 years later OR will have died of something else, the attempts to treat the cancer have little bearing on the survival statistic. On the flip side, you have cancers that tend to be highly aggressive, like esophageal cancer. The overall 5-yr survival rate they cite (from a 2000 study) is less than 10%. (It’s somewhat higher these days, but only still maybe 13-18%.) Of those diagnosed, about a third had metastasized, and survival was unlikely regardless of treatment. According to the study, only about 46% were “suitable for treatment by radiotherapy or a combination of chemotherapy and radiotherapy”. So when they cite chemotherapy as adding “only” about 4.9% to the absolute survival benefit, what they’re really saying is that it played a role in the survival of half the people that actually survived. That’s not insignificant!

    Another factor that makes the case for chemo look more dismal than it is is the way they sum up the results. For example, they have 23242 cases of prostate cancer listed, for which chemo is irrelevant, totaled up with, for example, only 330 cases of advanced Hodgkin’s disease, which has a 5-yr absolute survival rate attributable to chemotherapy of 80%, which translates to a relative survival benefit of ~100%, because if you survive it, you had chemo. So the success stories for chemo get drowned out by all the irrelevant cases for which chemo would never have even been considered in the first place.

    So, all that dealt with survival rates, but it doesn’t address the many cases where chemo is used and is helpful, even if the patient ultimately dies. Even if a tumor only partially responds to 1st or 2nd line chemo, that is SOME benefit in terms of longer life and lesser symptoms. (Yeah, lots of chemo has nasty side effects, but SO DOES CANCER!) Even in cases where the cancer is “hopeless”, chemo is often used as palliative care because it reduces symptoms and slows the tumors’ growth, even though it doesn’t end up curing them.

    So please do not cherry-pick statistics from a study without taking the time to fully understand the data behind it.

    • John

      Out of all the types of cancer, there are only three for which chemotherapy works. Chemotherapy kills way more people than the cancer it is used for. Improves the quality of life-are you kidding? Have you ever seen a chemotherapy victim? Most oncologists insist on chemo no matter what the cancer is, and say you have to start within __ days or you will die. DOn’t sugarcoat chemotherapy abuse by doctors for profit. It’s rampant.
      John

      • Crock-a-dial

        So I should just take your word for it, or do you have studies to back up your claims? — Specifically, that “there are only three [cancer types] for which chemotherapy works” and “Chemotherapy kills way more people than the cancer it is used for.” and that “Most oncologists insist on chemo no matter what the cancer is”. That’s ludicrous, and any doctor that did that should be brought up before a medical board to answer for themselves. Sure, doctors, like plumbers, work for profit, but I’m not in the conspiracy theory camp that says most of them are just out to get you. I think most of their faults result from incompetence rather than malice or greed. I’m not trying to sugarcoat the potential side effects of any drug, but neither am I willing to dismiss them out of hand simply because of the side effects.

        • apprin

          I do not subscribe to the theory that conspiracy resides only in “theory.” Conspiracy does indeed exist in reality. We cannot dismiss the 200 billion dollar-per-year cancer industry in the USA when talking conspiracy “theory.” I also believe in facts as we come to know them and I put quite a bit of stock in The China Study.

          I have known of people who left the U.S. with hopelessly terminal, final stage cancer, only to be treated by “quacks” with vegetable juice and spices in Mexico and return healthy with all cancer verified to be gone by the very doctors who had initially diagnosed them. I have known of one who was sent home with a feeding tube and an abdomen full of aggressive tumors. He was told that he was to live a final existence surrounded by hospice workers and and the local priest, but elected to seek “alternative” options. Liquefied nutrients were actually poured into a feeding tube directly into his abdomen. He recovered and lived an additional eleven active, strong, enjoyable years after returning to the same, large, well known cancer specialty hospital in Houston that had diagnosed him in the first place. He was verified cancer free at the amazement of his doctors. The man died from heart failure at 91 years of age.

          Do we recall the pharmaceutical company who’s representative, approximately four years ago, admitted that pharma is well aware that chemotherapy drugs seem to work in the short run, only to destroy the immune system, setting up the patient for a fatal, aggressive recurrence later?

          I am not in the medical business, but, a professional researcher. The USA has a dismal failure rate in the treatment/recovery from cancer as our medical network slams the door on non-pharmaceutical or “alternative” options that are widely accepted elsewhere. We live in a nation where our USDA embraces genetically modified foods while dozens of other nations ban them completely. Our FDA attacks medical practitioners who dare to explore non-traditional methods that are used successfully elsewhere. Perhaps these facts constitute “theory” in some minds, but I consider this to be something close to conspiracy reality. After considering the simple numbers behind traditional treatment results, dietary evidence and alternative treatment results, I elected to become vegan and to establish lineages to so-called alternative treatment establishments to which I refer interested friends and acquaintances whenever possible.

          • Crock-a-dial

            No doubt there are real conspiracies, but I don’t find most people intelligent enough or getting along with each other well enough to proliferate large scale conspiracies very well without getting caught. Of course there are plenty of things that are caught and exposed but get swept under the rug anyway, but that’s a different story.

            “I have known of people”

            Known, or known of? To me that’s a big difference, especially when it comes to taking the word of some stranger online. Of course there are any number of anecdotes of such things out on the internet, or some friend of a friend, etc. But in the end an anecdote doesn’t provide me with the type of evidence I look for to make my health decisions. Spontaneous unexplained recoveries happen all the time, and they’re interesting, but they shouldn’t give people hope that if they happen to do something that someone else happened to do that they’ll recover. There’s a REASON we have evidence-based medicine and rely on randomized controlled trials as the gold standard of proof for clinical treatments.

            You seem to mock the USA in particular in regards to cancer treatments, and posit an FDA that “attacks” people. I just don’t see that. I don’t have any particular love for the FDA, but the unproven rhetoric I read from so many makes me often feel like I have to defend them. As long as we’re trading anecdotes, I know (not merely know of) a lady, who fairly early in life developed breast cancer and was able to come TO the USA for treatment, and I’m glad she could have that opportunity, because a lot of people in other countries have abysmal health care. (She’s about 10 years cancer free now, and is a happy healthy wife and mother back in her country.) If you have actual evidence of FDA being unreasonable about certain “alternative” treatments, I’d be happy to see it, but I’ve researched certain supposed cases, like the whole Laetrile/amygdalin thing from the 1970s, quite extensively and found that the truth was they really bent over backwards to accommodate these treatments and press for clinical trials that just never gave any fruit. (And you can still get amygdalin in the USA if you really want to, not that there’s evidence it will help. There are technically laws about shipment and such, but it’s not like they’ve got some huge interest in enforcing them.)

            You mentioned some pharmaceutical rep who said something 4 years ago. I’d be curious for a link if you can provide it. But some disgruntled employees will say anything, obviously, and it’s not like these decisions about drugs are made in dark smoke-filled rooms – they take years of research with hundreds of people involved who can all blow whistles at any time. You talk of “pharma” like it’s some giant opaque homogeneous organization that clandestinely knows certain dark secrets about its wares. Do you not see why you come off looking paranoid? If you have a legitimate specific complaint against some specific drug company, that’s helpful, but otherwise you’re just spreading FUD and broad-brushing an entire industry. (Please understand I say that as someone who isn’t on any meds and doesn’t even take over-the-counter stuff. I would be very cautious about taking any drug, but I just can’t swallow the constant unspecific FUD that gets spread around.)

            It’s interesting to me how you seem to link your becoming a vegan with your affinity for “alternative” medicine. Although my start to eating healthier started with a fad diet book called “Fit for Life” back when I was a teenager, I ended up running into some issues that needed addressing. After some blood work and one visit with my doctor, it became very quickly evident that he was going to be no help at all, and I would have to help myself, so I went back to the drawing board and started reading up on nutrition. After a while I developed a plan and my problems were solved. In other words, I fixed my diet through MAINSTREAM recommendations, even if mainstream evidence isn’t what most people want to hear or follow. It was only years later that I came across Dr. Greger’s excellent work, and saw immediately that he was right about all the major points, not because he’s come up with some “alternative”, but because he’s bringing people the same mainstream evidence-based ideas that had already helped me.

          • apprin

            I should have explained more clearly. These are people that I have known; that I shook hands and visited with. People who were family friends that I had relationships with before and after their illness. I do have much faith in modern medicine; however, I also know the hearts of humans and simply have researched cancer infection and recovery rates in other “undeveloped” nations. There’s something going on and it’s not so good. Our cancer healing rate is largely unimproved while other areas of medicine are making enormous strides. I will not pretend to have the answers; however, my faith in mainstream medicine is dwindling fast.

          • Crock-a-dial

            Thanks for clarifying. I’m not saying every use of chemo is always appropriate, I’m just trying to make sure people don’t go to extremes of belief which aren’t justified by the facts. I take your point about “the hearts of humans”, and as a Christian, I accept the indictment of Romans 3:9-23. But there’s a difference between an individual sinning and that sinner being capable of carrying on a vast conspiracy with other sinners. It happens, but not as much.

            I grew up in undeveloped nations, and the healthcare is downright stinky. I question where you get your data from about our cancer healing rate being “largely unimproved”. I posted earlier in this discussion a link to reports that say quite the opposite: http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-role-of-vitamin-c-in-the-treatment-of-terminal-cancer/#comment-2453123192 I’m not saying there aren’t mitigating factors to consider even about that report, but I’d at least like to see the source of your dwindling “faith in mainstream medicine”. There IS much room for improvement, but I don’t see a lack of progress overall. We live in a very blessed generation, in that regard.

          • apprin

            Indeed, we have made great strides in treating childhood blood cancers but generally speaking, my understanding is that actual cure rates across the board remain between 4 and 5 percent while “alternative” treatment does at least as well. However, without government and well funded industry involvement, it is extremely difficult to track.

          • Rebecca Cody

            Statistics tend to be skewed when so many women with DCIS, which is now confirmed NOT to be cancer, are treated and “healed of their cancers,” Thousands of women have been treated with surgery, chemo and radiation when what they had was not even cancer, yet their statistics are lumped in with those who do have cancers. And the irony is that the treatments they needlessly took are cancer causing.

            The same is true for men who have non-aggressive prostate cancers. Many years ago such men were merely watched and almost all of them died of something else, not cancer causing.

          • Thea

            Crock-a-dial: I’m not taking a position on the main discussion, but I did want to comment on your last paragraph. In at least one video, Dr. Greger himself referred to the information on this site as alternative medicine. That gave me some pause. I decided that term was absolutely correct because mainstream doctors do not understand, let alone use, the science behind nutrition to treat diseases. I used to use the term “alternative medicine” to mean any practices that are suggested through anecdotal evidence, but not “proven” in the sense of having the body of scientific evidence to back it up. Now I see how problematic my old definition is.

            My conclusion was: it is helpful to refer to the information on this site as mainstream science and alternative medicine. I think those terms as I defined them can make for clearer communication.

          • Crock-a-dial

            “mainstream science and alternative medicine”

            That’s an interesting and well-thought-out way of phrasing it – thanks. Sad that it is the state of affairs with nutrition.

          • Rebecca Cody

            Apprin, Well said! I agree with you. I’ve been through the cancer mill and seen how people get sucked in, how insurance and the FDA and doctors who could lose their licenses for using natural treatments instead of the approved three limit options. I’ve seen people who were given so much chemo that they died from it.

            And I might add, medical oncologists – the ones who give chemo – are among the few doctors who profit mightily from the medications they give.

    • 2tsaybow

      Hi Crock-a-dial
      I hope that while you are examining studies about chemo, you are also looking at the information provided in the book The China Study, as well as the videos here about animal protein in our diet. If someone you love has cancer, whether they use conventional medicine to cure it or not, they need to know that cancer needs animal protein to grow. The easiest way to stop the growth of any cancer is to eat beans, greens, and nuts. Then if you want an easy way to fight cancer look at fruit. Start with apples, they help cut the blood supply to any tumor; look at strawberries and what the can do for esophageal legions. Look at the hundreds of videos on this site about nutrition!
      If you are talking about someone you love, like your mother, instead of having intellectual arguments about how Dr. Greger reviews data, tell your mom that she can do something about her diagnosis and get her on a whole food plant based diet! Get her on this website and on ForksOverKnives.com and on PCRM.org for dietary information and for information about the cancer and what is in our diet that causes it.

      I am sure it will help, it couldn’t hurt, and it will give her hope! Let’s not look at the trees and miss the forest; your goal is a non-invasive cure at most, or at least a healthy life while it is lived. This is the place to find it.

      • Rhombopterix

        Yes, Crock…what 2tsaybow said.

      • Crock-a-dial

        “Instead of having intellectual arguments about how Dr. Greger reviews data, tell your mom that she can do something about her diagnosis and get her on a whole food plant based diet!”

        It’s not an either-or; it can be a both-and.

        I have not read The China Study book. (Maybe someday, but there is a lot already on my “to read” list.) Regardless of what it says, I do think there’s plenty of other evidence to support a WFPB diet, and I’ve certainly tried to push my mom in that direction and linked her to this site on MANY occasions. (She eats better than the standard American diet, but isn’t a WFPB “convert”.) I mostly am, and was long before I came across Dr. Greger’s work. (A cup of skim milk a day is the only non-vegan thing in my diet.)

        “The easiest way to stop the growth of any cancer is …”

        That’s a ridiculously broad statement – much too broad for you to begin to back up with studies. I’m on your side when it comes to WFPB diet and the benefits of evidence-based nutrition, but one must be careful to look at ALL the evidence fairly. I just do not begin to believe that NO ONE who eats as healthy as the science would tell him/her to ever gets or dies from cancer – it’s just not that simple.

        But everyone has to die sometime, so actually, as someone who eats healthy and gets exercise, sleep, etc., I rather expect to die from cancer or some accident simply because I DON’T expect to die from a lot of the other things like heart disease or diabetes.

        • Johanna Martin

          Dear Crock-a-dial, PLEASE move “The China Study” up on your reading list and, since you drink milk daily, read what Dr. Campbell says about his experiments with casein, a component of milk.

        • 2tsaybow

          Right!? So?
          Does that mean that you have done so? It is her best and greatest hope no matter the curative path she chooses.
          This is particularly true if she chooses chemo. Is the person you know and love aware of the fact that animal protein should be removed from her diet at this point in her life?
          Have you shown her this site and the two sites I mentioned in my earlier post? There are other sites and physicians I or many other more informed people on this site can direct her toward.
          Are you on board with the fact that a WFPB diet is a positive dietary change for your loved one? Is she on board with that?

        • Rebecca Cody

          Crock-a-dial, I’m a mother whose son was appalled because I wanted to use alternatives instead of mainstream medicine. I ended up doing some of both, but I focused heavily on improving diet, which wasn’t too bad to begin with but did include pastured beef and raw milk from cows that were treated properly. I went raw (for a time) vegan did juicing, supplements, sauna, even coffee enemas and many other therapies. The result? The last new oncologist I met read at my chart, looked at me and said, “We don’t meet many with your diagnosis three years later.” I replied that I knew, I should be dead. She acknowledged this was true. That was three years ago.

          So please, cut your mom a little slack. It is her body and her decision. She needs your loving support, not arguments. Nobody is doing the kind of research you want to see on the kinds of approaches many people do who are healing their cancers with more natural means. We all know that would be pretty much impossible, since there are too many variables and we do many things, no magic bullet stuff. It takes more than one thing to cure cancer. Period.

    • Charzie

      I agree that there are many confounding factors for coming up with a statistic for success, but I totally disagree with the statement: “There is no doubt that chemotherapy and radiotherapy provide good symptom control and improve quality of life.” I watched my dad, brother, father in law and several other people be devastated and disabled by the “treatment”, NOT the natural course of the disease, where often they were nearly symptom free prior to intervention. Had they even chose to do absolutely NOTHING, they may have still succumbed, but the rapid and debilitating downhill spiral in all cases accelerated both their misery and their demise. The single “survivor” has gone on to battle repeated bouts of breast cancer that were possibly even caused by the known carcinogenic treatments, and has finally opted out of the system of torture. She is using nutrition and other life enhancing tools to boost her own bodily defenses, and increase the quality of whatever time she is given.

      Yes, people need to know the details of their specific case, because the proscribed treatment is doled out en mass by a high pressure industry that uses scare tactics and sweeping pronouncements instead of FACTS to help people make reasonable decisions. People of course want to LIVE, so bow to the authorities who offer what usually amounts to false hope. In every case, if they didn’t automatically opt for surgery, chemo and radiation when offered, they were heavily coerced, even essentially threatened, despite the poor outcomes. Any questions about alternatives were quickly dismissed and even ridiculed, especially diet! I’m sure there are exceptions, but in my experience these have been standard practice and certainly altered my views on accepted treatments!.

      Our immune systems work hard to keep illness at bay, deal with mutated and potentially cancerous cells daily, protect us from all kinds of assaults. It just makes sense we do all we can to strengthen and support it in it’s efforts, rather than systematically destroy it. Now it seems it’s the cancer stem cells that have to die to halt the disease, and neither surgery, chemo or radiation can succeed there either. The whole “wage war and destruction” paradigm seems to be man’s generalized approach to any problematic issue… overpower and conquer, rather than cooperate and assist. Even with our most effective drugs, as antibiotics used to be, they can only help out…until our body and immune system can do battle, with a reduced load. The drug itself could never succeed on it’s own without our innate defenses taking over. When we are ill, HEALING is what we seek, not devastation. How can poisoning, radiating, hacking through our natural barriers, compromising and disabling the immune system and stressing out the entire organism possibly assist a person to overcome cancer…or anything? It is a aggressive paradigm that is contrary to the goal of HEALING.

      • Crock-a-dial

        ‘I totally disagree with the statement: “There is no doubt that chemotherapy and radiotherapy provide good symptom control and improve quality of life.”‘

        To be clear, I was just pointing out the opinion of the researchers in that study and how the alternative practitioners never mention that. I would agree with that statement in many cases, but obviously not all. You should read up on palliative chemotherapy, because it really is a thing people do all the time. But I’m certainly not suggesting that it’s always a good idea. These are personal and individual end-of-life decisions that need to be worked through by the particular patients and their family members and medical teams. I of course want to promote prevention and early detection and intervention as the main focuses of our efforts. But everyone has to die sometime. Many people complain about the side effects of chemo, but I don’t see how they can in their individual cases compare the distress of chemo with how they’d be feeling without it, or how long dead they might already be. It’s only in the aggregate that we can estimate such things, which is what clinical trials are all about, and palliative chemo is an ongoing area of research.

        But for early stage patients, of course, you can’t make the argument that “I feel fine now, so why get painful surgery or unpleasant chemo?” It makes no sense to sit around and wait to treat yourself when you’re finally symptomatic, because by then it’ll probably be too late to intervene.

        I agree that people need to be wary of a “high pressure industry” and “scare tactics”, but these come from alternative practitioners no less than mainstream docs.

        I agree that our immune system and overall health has a huge impact on cancer prevention and even recovery, at times, but I tend to think of it this way: If you have an infection raging through your body, do you take an antibiotic? These antibiotics aren’t technically good for you, but you take them anyway because the evidence for their benefit outweighs the risks and side effects. You sometimes have to fight fire with fire, so to speak, because your immune system will not always be in a position to fight its own battles, no matter how much you cheer it on. These are complex issues, and they can’t be addressed by simplistic philosophies. Sometimes you need to be practical even if you have many good philosophical reasons for avoiding drugs. Chemo very often provides the “reduced load” you talk about, as well as reducing the likelihood that a surgically-removed cancer will crop up elsewhere later on.

  • Tracey Bell

    Great summary – and shocking statistics of the efficacy of chemotherapy in the US, Australia etc! With regards to huge sales of vit C vials…one use of vitamin C that I have heard of is for treatment of snake bite – anecdotal evidence from Australia suggests that it has been used to save dogs and horses bitten by lethally poisonous snakes. I used to keep a vial at my property for intramuscular injection (never had to use it but it I would have done it as animal almost always die from snake bites).

    • Matthew Smith

      You could take Iodine or Silicon for snake bite. Beware of what happens to your heartbeat, such as a weak pulse. I think snake venom might be a kind of overdose of a kind of atom.

      • Rhombopterix

        OD on a kind of atom?? Matt, you sure you are not on some atoms right now? can i get some?

        There are well documented procedures for treating snake bite and they do not include iodine or Silicon. Do you think your advice might cause someone to lose valuable time that would be better spent getting to a hospital?

        • Matthew Smith

          Thank you! You should go to a hospital right away after a snake bite! Many anti-venoms are simply the same venom, somehow reversed. I do not know the process. At it’s core, poison must be some how chemical. Have you seen men after a snake bite? The bromine from their opium leaks out right away and they are covered in bruises. Perhaps snake venom is Iodine. It causes stunning and a weak pulse. Long enough to make the animal faint and give the attacker a chance to attack. Perhaps when people were crucified there body releases their Iodine in a horrific burst and they faint. They say if the legs are not broken some of them wake up after word. In the New Testament, it said Christ’s legs were not broken. He might have awoken afterward to his resurrection.

          “Iodine an Antidote to the Venom of the Rattle-Snake

          JAMES WHITMIRE, M.D.

          Boston Med Surg J 1849;”

          I think, in my opinion, the antivenom to a spider’s bite is Silicon, which I love, because it cured my hemorrhoids.

          • Rhombopterix

            Matthew, are you getting professional care now? I looked at some of your other posts and it sounds like you might be having a tough time at the moment. I want to suggest that you express your thoughts to your doctor or care giver to be sure they are aware of your ideas. Heres my best wishes for your continued improvement.

          • Matthew Smith

            Thank you very much. There is very little doctors do for me. You know the state of mental health care. I am very glad I am going to get continued improvement. Doctors don’t buy me company. I have some of the best care.

          • Rhombopterix

            Hey Matt. When you said “Doctors don’t buy me company” do you mean companionship? If so you might try having a look at the fora that are dedicated to health issues. One you might like is called patientslikeme.com Use a search engine. Duckduckgo doesnt track your searchs.

            I find a lot of good info and good fellowship among some of these places. Worth a shot. Also, keeping a journal just for yourself. I used to do this when I was very ill and it really helped me. It is good to look back so you can measure how far you’ve come.

            Good luck Matthew.

    • Rhombopterix

      snake venom is a mixture of powerful digestive enzymes. Just as we have amylase in our saliva to help predigest starch, the enzymes in snake saliva predigest their prey. Vitamin C is very unlikely to have any effect on the activity of snake enzymes.

      I believe you can keep syringes of anti-venom on your property if you are remote from a hospital. Of course the best thing is to get professional help asap.

  • Rob

    My 16 yr old daughter was diagnosed with metastatic (both local & distant to lungs) bone cancer (osteosarcoma) in Dec 2007 and died 19 months later. The prognosis for this type/stage of cancer was (and still is) very grim with about a 20% 5-yr survival rate. After the usual treatment protocal/surgery and disappointing developments over the first 9 months, I learned from our local hospital where we began out-patient treatments once my daughter was released from the regional childrens’ hospital, that a more progressive children’s oncologist was starting another teenaged girl on IV Vitamin C within the hospital. Having researched Pauling’s findings and Riordan’s clinic we naturally asked to be included in the program. Note that this was being conducted within the setting of fully funded provincial (British Columbia) healthcare.

    Both girls were gradually brought up to 30gm infusions 2/3 times a week and neither had any issues. Unfortunately my daughter’s IVC was paused whenever she had further chemo. There was plenty of evidence to suggest that tumor spread was being slowed especially with the other girl who survived nearly 5 years with metastatic adrenalcortical cancer (very rare), a near death sentence similar to that of my daughter.

    I remember when I read the Mayo Clinic’s conclusions dismissing high dose Vitamin C therapy for cancer after conducting only oral Vitamin C and not IVC treatments. You don’t have to be a scientist to find the study absurd.

    And just recently there was a very negative CBC report about supplements that effectively labelled Pauling as a “quack”. Yes, the publically funded broadcaster here in Canada telling us that Vitamin C supplements are a waste of money and that there is “no scientific evidence” to suggest that Vitamin C has any therapeutic value. Gosh, to hell with fruit and vegetables!

    • Rhombopterix

      Thanks for sharing, very touching. I wish things had been better for her and you.

      Its probably silly, but as I read your story I was thinking how great it would be if we could do a study using ourselves as test critters. I’d bet we’ve got people here with the clinical skills to design a study. Maybe 1 group could keep a daily journal, record what is eaten, exercise…and another does the same but includes VC or turmeric or some other thing of interest. Of course shooting up is a problem but if we could get something off the ground and show some results…Isn’t something we can do without a huge investment of cash? Just wish we could take it to the next level and attract some attention to healthy eating.

    • Matthew Smith

      I am so sorry about the tragic loss of your daughter. She was a dear heart who blessed the world. I am sure the whole world cannot live without her. She was a blessing. I am sure she is an angel now.

  • HaltheVegan

    It seems to me that IV Vitamin C has held the spotlight for an alternative cancer treatment for a long time since it was promoted by a prominent scientist like Dr Pauling. But taking a step back and looking at the big picture, how about other nutrients that may show even greater promise than Vitamin C? For instance, turmeric/curcumin has been shown to fight cancer by several different pathways. I would think that it may be an even better candidate to research for administering in high does by means of IV or Liposome-based drug delivery than Vitamin C. I did a quick search on the Internet and found a few PubMed studies where this research has been started in the form of Liposomal Curcumin, but since I’m not a professional in this field, I don’t know the true extent of the research. Does anyone know how far along this research is? Have there been any human trials?
    Here is a link for the Liposomal Curcumin study:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24023285

  • Jean Hayes

    Fascinating. The current state of cancer treatment is appalling. People are not fully informed to the risk or benefit of chemotherapy. Very sad.

    • Matthew Smith

      Two percent effectiveness is not medicine.

  • Matthew Smith

    Hello, according to Pubmed Health, high dose intravenous Vitamin C eased the suffering of cancer patients and minimized side-effects. That alone makes it worth it. Vitamin C makes me laugh, sometimes. I guess someone has to pay attention. I think if Vitamin C isn’t the magic bullet, Iron would be. Intravenous Iron was effective in the treatment of cancer, more so than modern medicines tried against it. If Iron isn’t the dead on, bouncing accurate weapon against cancer, it might be Phosphorous. Goat Cheese, Pumpkin Seeds, and Calf liver, all of which contain Phosphorus, juice were all effective at treating cancer in some patients. Perhaps even dark cola could do the job. The pharmacies have three times tried to patent 50,000 IU of D2 as a cancer treatment. Perhaps they have evidence of how effective this is. They have the paper sitting on their desk. The research they did is completely available to them. The government has lunched hundreds of trials on D3 and cancer. Some early results show a great reduction in tumor density and tumor metastasis.

  • David

    What can you tell us about artemisinin, cannabis is oil and bitter melon? There’s a lot of alternative healing websites pushing these as natural remedies for cancer..

    Thanks

  • Rhombopterix

    With trillions of cells in our bodies it is a pretty sure bet that some of them are or are about to transform into cancer. This site has taught me to live TODAY as though I already had cancer because I probably do. I’m committed to supplying the full spectrum of whole unprocessed plant foods that support my immune system to work at tip top condition to clean house of these and other threats.

    • Wilma Laura Wiggins

      Exactly. Well I don’t do everything I would do if I knew I had cancer, but certainly the unprocessed plant food (no oil) route.

  • vegank

    Like many of you here I witnessed my loved ones dying from cancer, or heard about grandparents and great grandparents dying from cancer (nearly the whole family on one side).
    what concerns me is the tests too. The type where you drink radio active liquid/substance so that tumors or cancers show up on body scans. Safety is guaranteed but it gives you an uncomfortable feeling.
    I’d rather do what I can do to prevent cancer from developing in the first place , and hope that medicine will move to that direction , rather than being focused on diagnosis and “treatment” after it’s discovered. That is why the research & videos we have access to at Nutritionfacts.org matters so much.

  • dmprisk

    Lipsomal vitamin C is even more powerful then I.V vitamin C. Make it yourself and you take it orally. And you don’t need to beg a doctor or hospital. Plus watch the youtube video “A world without Cancer” it’s about vitamin b-17. And of course. Dr. Burzynski in Texas has been curing cancer for decades, even though both the FDA and the American Cancer Society has tired to shut him up, steal his research, etc.

  • dmprisk

    Oh, you can and should make the Liposomal Vitamin C, fresh yourself. Lots of youtube videos on how to make it. I would tell you do not use Soy Lecitin as those videos tell you, use Sunflower Lecitin. Very easy to make.

  • Charzie

    Despite it’s well deserved hatred, it’s always seemed to me that someday we may actually learn something beneficial from cancer, besides how to destroy it, like utilizing certain characteristics that could be beneficial under different circumstances. I know that sounds kinda weird, but when you consider that it can make itself immortal from a formerly mortal cell, (life extension?) and has a slew of tricks to hijack everything it needs to survive, from sneaking in under the radar and staying camouflaged, (a way to keep transplants from being rejected?) to forcing the growth of an intricate network of blood vessels…(repairing damaged tissue) and so on. It will forever mystify me how things that are barely entities, like viruses, cancer, even plants, can so effectively not just adapt to their environment, but adapt the environment to suit “them”, yet we are so impotent!

    • HaltheVegan

      Charzie, you have some fascinating ideas here … some “out-of-the-box” thinking! Biological systems and the adaptability of organisms have always fascinated me, too. The biologist, Richard Dawkins, has some interesting views on this subject and I’ve enjoyed reading some of his books and watching some of his videos, starting with “The Selfish Gene” many years ago. (Genes really “know” how to survive for eons ;-)

      • Charzie

        Thanks Hal, most of the time I just get weird looks and head shakes! lol Biology has always been a passion and I often wish I had the means to pursue it, I would have loved to get into research.
        I need to get to the library and take out some good books, I’ll definitely keep Dawkins in mind. I used to cart out bags of books, pre-internet! I still do lots of reading but miss all the books! (Old eyes do appreciate the enlarged text option though)

  • @Tom Goff That’s true fasting is also a powerful kind of treatment for al lot of diseases. Chemotherapy is no kind of treatment – chemotherapy comes from the mustard gas of the first world war. It destroyed all kind of living – I know what about I’m talking because I survived a 3.5 year long “treatment” without any nessecary. Chemotherapy is only a big business for the pharma industry. One of my friends died 2 years ago, a mother of 4 sweet children because she was doctored whit chemo-therapy until the end despite the doctors haven’t seen not on breast cancer cell after starting the chemo therapy – it was gone from alone or from the vitamin C IV, nobody knows exactly. But the told her to do this until they say its over. It was so disgusting to see who a beautiful woman turn’s to a shadow of people… and it’s so hard to stay beside, well known it’s the wrong way.

    There are much more natural healing things, which aren’t proof this days despite the are very helping. Until a couple of years now physician in Germany believed that acupuncture is a real thing… today it is proofed! If only the products of pharma helps, so I always ask, how could it be that the people survived until today. How survive animals in the nature? For example, when a people in Germany has a bite of a tick… all cry for treatment, all cry for injection etc. but what about my dog, the deer, rabbits, foxes? Is there only one single animal found whit a death because of a bite of a tick?

    I agree with Mr. Greger for 100 %, the best way to treat any disease is to try to avoid it in the first place. And here plays also a big role the farm industry with there fertilizer manufacturer. They poisen our lakes, rivers and creeks… there is much more to say to this topic, one life is not enough.

    • Crock-a-dial

      There’s much more in your post than I care to get into with you, but I will address a bit:

      “If only the products of pharma helps…”

      No one is saying that; it’s a straw man argument.

      “so I always ask, how could it be that the people survived until today.”

      Uh – they didn’t! Perhaps you need to study history a bit more – look at life expectancies and infant mortality rates even 100-300 years ago. Maybe you need to wonder why, even in our age where abortion and contraception are mainstream why we live in a world with far more people than we had 100-300 years ago, and why the average age of people in developed countries continues rising.

      “How survive animals in the nature?”

      If you’re seriously suggesting that animals in nature don’t regularly die from parasites and infections, you must not get out much.

      • Because you mention the mortality rates of infants… is a good example for my words to underline. Only by improving the standards of clearness (Hygiene) put down a lots of dramatical diseases in the middle age.
        Also the higher standards for living – try houses, warmer clothes and so much more.
        And, yes it is not good for a woman to lose her unborn child but maybe it is naturell, because mother nature realized that the unborn is not really able to life?
        Yes, the medizin is better then 100 – 300 years ago, no doupt, especially the emergency surgery… but they also detroy life there are so much examples that I don’t know how to start.
        Beside, a famous German doctor ans scientist called Petternkofer said about 120 years ago the very good sentens: The bacterials are nothing, the surounding is all.
        And here we are again by Dr. Greger, Dr. Osnish at all they others they say: Eat healthy!

        I Wish you a very good day… By

        • Crock-a-dial

          “a famous German doctor ans scientist called Petternkofer said about 120 years ago the very good sentens: The bacterials are nothing, the surounding is all.”

          I’d never heard of Pettenkofer, but putting together what you said and what’s on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Joseph_von_Pettenkofer I see a lot of similarity between the debate between Koch and Pettenkofer and what is sometimes said of the rivalry between Louis Pasteur and Antoine Béchamp (though how much of it is true, I don’t know). In the end, I’d say that it is neither simply the germ, nor the environment (the health of a person), but that BOTH are important factors.

          But I do not believe in “mother nature” or that the death of children should be treated with passive indifference. (I’m a Christian. I believe in the sanctity of life and that God first made humans immortal, but that we have died since the beginning as a consequence of our rebellion against him.)

          Good day to you as well!

  • Fred

    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/immunotherapy-advances-as-potential-holy-grail-of-cancer-treatment-011116.html

    Immunotherapy or just say goodbye?

    They can remove the large tumors but they can’t get the metastatic cells…..only your immune system can?

  • largelytrue

    Greger switches the metric from terminal cancer to more general malignancy when quoting that 2.1% increased 5-year survival figure for chemotherapy. Since the survival with other care is estimated at around 60% for these malignancies in the same paper, it seems that their data is focusing a lot on the common slow-growing cancers, and non-metastatic cases — precisely those sorts of conditions for which adjuvant therapy is less likely to confer a significant benefit in this time window compared with just cutting the cancer out. The $100k figure for full chemotherapy is only for new cytotoxic agents, too — older drugs are much cheaper than new.

    A number of people are sneering at all chemotherapy based on this single statistic without much thought, and that isn’t warranted. Precisely because so many survive cancer for 5 years, the benefits of adjuvant chemotherapy would likely be seen further down the road, as micro-metastices require time to bloom into full-borne cancer. This would be especially true if your diet before was cancer-promoting and your diet after was much more in line with cancer prevention guidelines, since part of the benefit of diet in preventing cancer is likely through slowing its development into something fatal.

    Whether chemotherapy is warranted depends at least upon the cancer and upon how long the patient would be expected to live independent of the cancer. I see a lot of sneering about chemotherapy in the comments here about this one statistic which even in itself shows a survival benefit for the treatment along with other implied costs, several of which are temporary side effects. I think that these types of comments are intellectually irresponsible.

  • haripetrov

    Check this video (2 hours lecture for vitamin C): https://youtu.be/y0LLX0sgwAU

    • vmh

      Interesting. Might prove helpful to me. Thanks.

  • Madhava Overgoor

    I know this is not the subject, but Is there any relevant news about Natrium Bicarbonate and Cancer treatment?

    • Tom Goff

      I think it is worth looking at eg the Cancer Research UK webpage below before believing the sensational claims found on dodgy websites or made by individuals with books etc to sell. Note that “natrium bicarbonate” is just a fancy way of saying sodium bicarbonate which in turn is a fancy way of saying baking soda.
      Interestingly, I note that they describe as “myth” Dr G’s report of data showing that only 2-3% of patients benefit from chemotherapy!

      http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2014/03/24/dont-believe-the-hype-10-persistent-cancer-myths-debunked/

  • Tom Goff

    Below are a couple of things I have looked at recently that may be of interest. The EdX free course on applied biostatistics is relevant to many of the discussions we see here on the data around health and disease. The YouTube video includes some interesting observations about cancer risk and exercise although the discussion ranges much more widely than that.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cd0OB-xgoo
    https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-applied-biostatistics-osakaux-med101x?utm

  • DanielFaster

    As a survivor let me tell you: All the cures suck – cutting, burning, poisoning. Cancer is so multifactorial and too complicated to figure out how to treat it with drugs. There is no magic bullet and there never will be, at least not in your lifetime. Wise up and change your lifestyle to maximize the chances of not getting it, especially a plant based unprocessed diet. Start today if you haven’t already. A few years vegan may not be enough to undo 50 years of abusing your body.

  • Lisa

    I have been very interested in Vitamin C as a theraphy and glad some research has been done on this, along with a video.

    I am wondering, if it light of the recent Charlie Sheen appearance on Dr. Oz, Dr. Greger can please comment or do some research and make a video on Doctor Samir Chachoua and his therapies for curing disease. I realize it’s not exactly nutrition, but it is still worthy of consideration due to possibly being something that could work even better than nutrition for curing all disease. I am not sure who else would or could have a team that could research the unbiased work of this doctor to make a determination on it.
    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Doctor+Samir+Chachoua&&view=detail&mid=F99C96D0CE300F3A77AEF99C96D0CE300F3A77AE&FORM=VRDGAR

  • Rodrigo Cardoso
  • Ray Tajoma

    Side effect MAY include kidney failure ? If I was the dying patient, I would take the chance.

    The 5 year success record for chemotherapy is 2.1% ? How come they can figure that one out so accurately but can’t find out about IV vitamin C ? Oh, Oh, I know why ! It’s intentional cover-up.

  • Louis Jans

    I’m scratching my head here. All studies shown in the video use IVC on advanced/end-stage cancer patients, often with no other treatment options left. All of them received prior standard cancer treatment. And then they wonder why vitamin C doesn’t yield results? Is there any treatment that cures those kind patients? No, there isn’t, so why would we expect IV vitamin C to be a miracle cure in these cases? And why then is the conclusion that IVC doesn’t work at all?

  • an argie

    Ascorbic acid is NOT vitamin C. Look at the work of Dr. Royal Lee.

    Ascorbic acid is only the shell of a complete vitamin C complex.

    Dr.Szent Györgyi the discoverer of ascorbic acid never ever could cure scurvy with it, let alone cancer….

  • ALEX P.

    Maybe it’ s a bit off topic, but what’ s your opinion about the intake of high dose of ascorbic acid (the famous Linus Pauling’s theory), in the range of 10 grams per day or even more ?

  • gmhoch

    Has anyone heard of Essiac Herbal supplementation for cancer?

  • Crock-a-dial

    Under “Sources Cited” for this video, the first link is broken. Please update it to: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18544557

  • Dr. FedUP

    Questioning the legitimacy of the claims that “the verdict is still out”…it’s like the powers-that-be prohibiting research on medical cannabis while claiming that we don’t yet have enough evidence-based, randomized control trials proving benefit. It’s all a racket until proven otherwise imo. We simply cannot improve on nature. Period.

  • I know this video mentions there was little to no effect of vitamin C on cancer but I just have to share my incredible experience with it.

    I’ve been suffering from U colitis for the passed 6 years. I’ve had my ups and downs. I’ve also had some flare ups. I’ve been fortunate enough to not have any surgeries for it. I think that is because of the Whole food plant based diet that I follow and that this website reccomends. This website has really saved my butt…literally.

    However, my quality of life was not very good. I’ve had the typical symptoms but without any major complications (tired, mental fog, drained, loose stools, emergency BM, etc). I even have to perform enemas everyday of 1500 cc of purified water just to avoid surgery.

    B/c of this lifestyle, I’m always looking for things to add to my current habits…I’ve tried everything (raw milk, herbs, Chinese herbs, bone broth, grass fed beef) and everytime I failed. In fact, all these things made my symptoms worse, except the herbs of course. They helped but still wasn’t enough.

    Two days ago, I decided to introduce massive doses of pure buffered vitamin C to my diet. It changed my life. In 6 years of having this disease, I’ve never felt normal. I can tell all of you that I feel incredibly normal and I’m feeling better and better everyday. I’m taking anywhere from 15000mg-20000mg of vitamin C per day with a whole lot of water. Now I wouldn’t recommend anyone doing that without doing your own due diligence but, I do feel great. Most of my symptoms are gone. I have mental clarity, energy, strength, don’t have to do enemas, etc. I still have to watch what I eat ie raw foods and nuts are still difficult but a lot more tolerable. For the first 2 days, these results are pretty good.

    In terms of this video, I’m not sure why it didn’t work. I’m not suggesting it was a conspiracy or anything. But possibly, maybe we have to ask what diet these ppl were on. My nephew has the same illness as me and he’s on the see food diet. Whatever food he sees he eats : junk food and everything. He was given VItamin C intervenously and it made no difference. Maybe if the diet isn’t addressed, the vitamin C that is taken is either very poor quality or its being used up to combat the oxidative stress caused by the poor diet–Causing a stalemate effect, so to speak. I’m not sure the doses he was taking but my guess is it was 5000mg minimum.

    Maybe we need to ask the question, when does it work and when doesn’t it work? Are there toxic effects? If so, is it approperiate to use it in extreme cases like mine where the disease itself is more detrimental (and the associated drugs) than the actual supplement? I personally feel it is perfectly safe and the benefits outweigh any risk. I would be more worried about the fillers that are in it. If taking high doses those fillers could be toxic. SO getting a pure form would be highly beneficial when it’s consumed in high amounts and on a regular bases. Just a disclaimer, I’m not a doctor or a nutritionist of any kind. I’m just a dude share his experience.

    Anyways, I thought I’d share my experience and see if anyone else has experience using VItamin C or vitamins in general. In my case I have to admit, it changed my life for the better. I know it is only 2 days but time will tell how things will turn out. I will keep you all posted…

    Rob

  • Austin Coder

    Dr. Michael Gonzales, in “That Vitamin Movie” states that the vitamin C molecule is structurally similar to the glucose molecule. He goes on to say that cancer cells have a relatively larger number of glucose receptors as compared to non-cancerous cells, and that if you restrict glucose and flood the bloodstream with high doses of vitamin C, the starving cancer cells will take up the vitamin C. Once in the cancer cell, the vitamin C molecules form hydrogen peroxide which kills the cancer, while not affecting the healthy normal cells, because healthy cells have enzymes to break down the hydrogen peroxide. I wonder if any of the studies referenced in the videos did anything to restrict glucose? If not, the cancer cells would have all the food/energy they need and the vitamin C wouldn’t be taken up as fast by them. Fasting (as Tom Goff suggested in his earlier post) combined with high-dose vitamin C would seem to be a worthwhile study. Fasting kicks the metabolism into a ketogenic state. Healthy cells switch to ketone metabolism and the cancer cells, which cannot burn ketones start to starve. Once in ketosis, maintain the patient in a ketogenic diet – restricting carbs AND restricting calories, starving the cancer cells, and then punch the cancer with high-dose intravenous vitamin C for the knockout. This would be an interesting study.

  • John Axsom

    I read Dr. Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD cardiologists book “Curing The Incurable With Vitamin C” He has treated a lot of patients with vitamin C using high dosages of 20,000 and even up to 50,000 mg IV. He states that he has never seen any side effects. Also, he has cured a lot of terrible infections with vitamin C IV. Anyone can go to YouTube and watch his lectures. Just type in his name in the search window on YouTube. In his book he quotes hundreds of scientific studies that back up his own treatment plans for his patients.

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