Flashback Friday: Saving Lives by Treating Acne with Diet

Flashback Friday: Saving Lives by Treating Acne with Diet
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Over-activated TOR signaling may help explain the link between acne and subsequent risk for prostate and breast cancer.

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

“Acne is an epidemic skin disease of industrialized countries, reaching prevalence rates of over 85% of teenagers. In the [U.S.], acne nowadays persists [even] after adolescence into the third decade of life in nearly half of men and women.” But it’s considered “a disease of Western civilization”—meaning, in some places, like Okinawa, it was rare or even nonexistent.

“In this regard most common acne…is not [some] ‘physiological’ phenomenon of puberty, but [may represent] a visible risk indicator…pointing to aberrant nutrient signalling promoting chronic epidemic diseases of civilisation.” This is what they mean: the dairy, junk foods, meat, and egg proteins in Western diets all conspire to raise the activity of the enzyme TOR, contributing to acne and obesity. So, using diet to suppress TOR may not only improve acne, but may prevent the march to more serious chronic TOR-driven diseases of civilization. So, the excessive TOR stimulation induced by the Standard American Diet may first just manifest as premature puberty and acne, but then may contribute to obesity and diabetes, cancer, and Alzheimer’s.

A lot of this is relatively new. “[U]ntil recently [for example] only a weak association has been accepted for the role of milk and dairy products in acne [formation].” But there is now “substantial …evidence supporting the effects of milk and dairy products as enhancers of…acne aggravation.”

“Milk is not just food but appears to represent a most sophisticated [hormone-] signaling system activating” TOR, which is of critical concern, given that TOR recognized as a “fundamental driving force” for a number of diseases.

But if milk is naturally supposed to stimulate TOR, why the problem? Because we’re drinking milk from the wrong species. Cow’s milk is designed for calves. Cow infants grow nearly 40 times faster than human infants. Cow’s milk has three times more leucine, the primary activator of TOR, so it may lead to human TOR overstimulation. It’s like where they do experiments giving donkey milk to rats to see what happens. Makes no sense.

And, of course, milk is for babies. “[C]ontinued consumption of any kind of milk [after childhood,] during adolescence and adulthood” is something that never really happened naturally, and “may have long-term adverse effects on human health.”

“In this regard, [it’s kind of] frightening to realize that more than 85% of [teens in] Western countries exhibit acne.” “This implies that the majority of our…population is living with over-activated [TOR] signaling,” a major disease-causing factor, “which probably may pave the way for the development of other [more] serious diseases…” A history of acne has been associated with breast cancer risk in women, for example, and prostate cancer in men.

So, “[E]arly dietary counseling of teenage acne patients is thus a great opportunity for dermatology, which will not only help to improve acne but may reduce the long-term adverse effects of Western diet on more serious [TOR]-driven diseases…”

So, just like urologists use erectile dysfunction as an opportunity to save lives, by putting people on heart-healthy diets, dermatologists can use acne as a way to save lives, by putting people on a cancer-prevention diet.

So, how do you turn acne on and off via dietary manipulation of TOR? A “comprehensive dietary strategy” to treat acne “can only be achieved by higher consumption of vegetables and fruit[s,]” given “preliminary evidence for the effectiveness of natural plant-derived [TOR] inhibitors in the treatment of acne,” “and [the] reduction of animal-derived food.”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

boyloso / Adobe Stock. This image has been modified.

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

“Acne is an epidemic skin disease of industrialized countries, reaching prevalence rates of over 85% of teenagers. In the [U.S.], acne nowadays persists [even] after adolescence into the third decade of life in nearly half of men and women.” But it’s considered “a disease of Western civilization”—meaning, in some places, like Okinawa, it was rare or even nonexistent.

“In this regard most common acne…is not [some] ‘physiological’ phenomenon of puberty, but [may represent] a visible risk indicator…pointing to aberrant nutrient signalling promoting chronic epidemic diseases of civilisation.” This is what they mean: the dairy, junk foods, meat, and egg proteins in Western diets all conspire to raise the activity of the enzyme TOR, contributing to acne and obesity. So, using diet to suppress TOR may not only improve acne, but may prevent the march to more serious chronic TOR-driven diseases of civilization. So, the excessive TOR stimulation induced by the Standard American Diet may first just manifest as premature puberty and acne, but then may contribute to obesity and diabetes, cancer, and Alzheimer’s.

A lot of this is relatively new. “[U]ntil recently [for example] only a weak association has been accepted for the role of milk and dairy products in acne [formation].” But there is now “substantial …evidence supporting the effects of milk and dairy products as enhancers of…acne aggravation.”

“Milk is not just food but appears to represent a most sophisticated [hormone-] signaling system activating” TOR, which is of critical concern, given that TOR recognized as a “fundamental driving force” for a number of diseases.

But if milk is naturally supposed to stimulate TOR, why the problem? Because we’re drinking milk from the wrong species. Cow’s milk is designed for calves. Cow infants grow nearly 40 times faster than human infants. Cow’s milk has three times more leucine, the primary activator of TOR, so it may lead to human TOR overstimulation. It’s like where they do experiments giving donkey milk to rats to see what happens. Makes no sense.

And, of course, milk is for babies. “[C]ontinued consumption of any kind of milk [after childhood,] during adolescence and adulthood” is something that never really happened naturally, and “may have long-term adverse effects on human health.”

“In this regard, [it’s kind of] frightening to realize that more than 85% of [teens in] Western countries exhibit acne.” “This implies that the majority of our…population is living with over-activated [TOR] signaling,” a major disease-causing factor, “which probably may pave the way for the development of other [more] serious diseases…” A history of acne has been associated with breast cancer risk in women, for example, and prostate cancer in men.

So, “[E]arly dietary counseling of teenage acne patients is thus a great opportunity for dermatology, which will not only help to improve acne but may reduce the long-term adverse effects of Western diet on more serious [TOR]-driven diseases…”

So, just like urologists use erectile dysfunction as an opportunity to save lives, by putting people on heart-healthy diets, dermatologists can use acne as a way to save lives, by putting people on a cancer-prevention diet.

So, how do you turn acne on and off via dietary manipulation of TOR? A “comprehensive dietary strategy” to treat acne “can only be achieved by higher consumption of vegetables and fruit[s,]” given “preliminary evidence for the effectiveness of natural plant-derived [TOR] inhibitors in the treatment of acne,” “and [the] reduction of animal-derived food.”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

boyloso / Adobe Stock. This image has been modified.

Doctor's Note

TOR is considered the engine-of-aging enzyme detailed in Why Do We Age? and Caloric Restriction vs. Animal Protein Restriction, as well as in my previous video: Prevent Cancer from Going on TOR.

I’ve touched on this topic before in Acne & Cancer Connection, and I covered acne and dairy in:

Urologists saving the lives of men is detailed in Survival of the Firmest: Erectile Dysfunction & Death and 50 Shades of Greens

I recently released a few new videos on acne. Check out Does Chocolate Cause Acne? and Does Cocoa Powder Cause Acne?. There’s also Natural Treatment for Acne & Fungal Infections and Benzoyl Peroxide vs. Tea Tree Oil for Acne.

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

129 responses to “Flashback Friday: Saving Lives by Treating Acne with Diet

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  1. Milk is but a factor not the cause. There are countless vegans from birth that have acne just like everybody else. To even think going vegan would cure acne has me wondering exactly how many vegans this doctor actually knows.

    1. Reality, you might be aiming for sardonic, but if often comes off as impertinent. It’s not so much what you say, but “how” you say it.

      I wonder if you understand the difference.

      1. My 16 year old son has been 100% plant based since February 2017, usually consuming a rainbow of 7 or more plant variety foods with each meal BUT he has acne… WHY???

        1. Jacinda,

          Two thoughts.

          Both related to Vitamin B12.

          Too high levels of B-12 from over-supplementing can cause acne by disrupting the microbiome of the skin.

          Particularly Methyl B-12 is what one source said.

          Sometimes vegans eat a lot of nutritional yeast or drink a lot of fortified plant milk or fortified cereals and they supplement every single day on top of those.

          BUT

          High Homocysteine from having TOO LOW B-12 ALSO can cause it.

          If he isn’t supplementing B12 or is taking Methyl which isn’t as shelf-stable and which is more prone to cause acne (maybe because of it doesn’t always work)

          Cyano B12 might help in two ways. It tends to be more effective and your son would only need to take it once a week.

          He could get lab-tested for Homocysteine and B-12 if you want to test either of those concepts.

          1. Third thought.

            Too much soy. At a certain dose, soy raises IGF-1. Dr. Greger has a video on what dose. Raising IGF-1 is related to acne. Lots of vegan processed food and vegan protein powders and soy milk, tofu, tempeh, and other soy products make it easy to get too many servings of soy.

            Fourth, is related to what Tom said about vegan junk food. Mostly, that would be the too high fructose from junk food can cause insulin resistance from the liver free fatty acids process (saturated fats also cause it) and insulin resistance can cause acne.

            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4565837/#:~:text=Conclusions,treatment%20of%20severe%20acne%20vulgaris.

            1. Fifth thought

              Vegetable oils raising Omega 6 levels. Excessive fat intake

              https://www.drfuhrman.com/elearning/eat-to-live-blog/41/preventing-acne-with-diet#:~:text=The%20Influence%20of%20Oil%20on,with%20the%20development%20of%20acne.

              Here is a chart of fats contributing to the wrong Omega 3/6 ratio.

              https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/optimize-omega-6-omega-3-ratio#section4

              Is he using coconut oil (high saturated fat) or eating processed vegan foods that have Palm oil (See Mic the Vegan’s video on free fatty acids and Palm oil was one of the biggest contributors.) or cooking with vegetable oils (There are lots of oil-free cooking videos on YouTube)

            2. 1/2 cup of soy (0%) fat everyday, tofu (3 x’s weekly), processed veggie burger (2 x’s weekly), soy cheese (1 x’s weekly).
              Is this too much soy?

              1. Joan that’s not too much soy. Apart from the B12 which I think was my daughter’s main problem ( too much), any high GI foods drive insulin release leading to acne, eg bread white rice sugar tropical fruit, fruit juice. The other thing Dr Greger has done a video on is cocoa /chocolate, even with no sugar, it directly drives acne :-(

              2. Joan,

                There’s really know why to know except to perhaps….test for your hormone levels with different intakes.
                I don’t think that your intake is excessive from your current intake, assuming you’re feeling well, your cycles are appropriate, etc..

                Dr. Alan Kadish moderator for Dr. Greger http://www.Centerofhealth.com

      2. The Former and Etc.,

        If you’d like a two-line username (it’s almost that already!), you could tag on “Never Complain, Never Explain”

        1. Or you could just buy a ‘doctorate’ from an on-line diploma mill like so many health gurus do and then go back to calling yourself Dr Cobalt.

    2. Greger never used the term ‘vegan’ in this video. Why do people continually confuse so-called ‘vegans’ with people who eat whole food plant based diets? There may be an overlap in some cases but the two groups are far from being identical.

      In this video, Greger notes

      ‘This is what they mean: the dairy, junk foods, meat, and egg proteins in Western diets all conspire to raise the activity of the enzyme TOR, contributing to acne and obesity.’

      From what I understand, self-styled ‘vegans’ in general appear to eat plenty of junk foods.

      Greger also concludes

      ‘So, how do you turn acne on and off via dietary manipulation of TOR? A “comprehensive dietary strategy” to treat acne “can only be achieved by higher consumption of vegetables and fruit[s,]”’

      Junk foods, ‘vegan’ included, are apart of the problem. A ‘vegan’ SAD is no better and no healthier than an omnivore SAD it appears …. whether the outcome of concern is mortality or acne. Eating mostly minimally processed plants as in traditional Asian, African etc diets seems tom be associated with low or no rates of acne.(and chronic diseases for that matter).

      Here is McDougall’s take on it

      https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2003nl/nov/acne.htm

      1. Tom,

        Is there a study for any topic comparing Vegan SAD to Omnivore SAD?

        That would already interest me.

        I haven’t been eating almost any vegan junk food since I started this but I did gain weight over this COVID-19 time by adding in some of the vegan processed meals. I really enjoyed eating them. I ate several Amy’s vegan pizza’s and some vegan fish sticks and other foods which reminded me of my youth. Yes, I gained maybe 8 or 10 pounds quickly and, yes, I stopped eating them and have been losing just as quickly.

        Still not sure I will succeed at real weight loss but I am very happy that I am succeeding at not eating processed food and not eating vegan junk food and not gaining weight.

          1. Tom,

            You have made me laugh.

            YES, suddenly the first video I ever saw from Dr. Greger – the shocking vegan study video leaped into my mind.

            Very helpful.

      2. If eating “a whole food plant based diet” cures acne (or anything else) wouldn’t a extreme “whole food plant based diet” (being a vegan) logically be a panacea? (it never is…)…

            1. DDDDDuane,

              Whole Food Plant-Based IS better for a whole lot of things, but better doesn’t mean panacea for everything.

              Tom’s math logic is not very polite.

              If we used the pandemic – and said that 6 foot of separation is good but not a panacea because there can be factors like loud talking and air conditioners and length of time in a place and coughing and sneezing and singing causing particles to fly farther can all undo the benefits of the 6 feet, even though 6 feet is usually sufficient. There was a choir, where they did the physical separation, but because they were there for a long time and were singing, suddenly it didn’t look like 6 feet had any benefit at all. Same thing for a call center where the air conditioning spread the virus.

              I guess what I am trying to say is that if I were teaching Whole Food Plant-Based to a child, you start with the benefits. Similar to having children learn spelling rules. Then, suddenly they have to learn Magic E and When Two Vowels Go Walking because the general rule isn’t the only rule. Kids, from my experience, hate this because you spend years teaching them the small vowel sounds and now you are going to confuse them on purpose. But you have to teach it in steps and the secondary rules don’t get rid of the primary rules. But you don’t figure that out until the next grade.

              Whole Food Plant-Based accomplishes so much but you need to eventually start to learn the secondary rules.

              1. My comment may not have been polite but then neither was D’s comment. What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

                (S)he still doesn’t (or pretends not to) understand that the argument is that the evidence shows that WFPB diets reduce risk, they don’t eliminate it. Nor are WFPB diets necessarily ‘vegan’ – just look at traditional Okinawan, Japanese, Chinese, rural African etc diets – all WFPB but none of them were ‘vegan’.

                Making scathing attacks on strawman arguments like that is fine but people who do so pretty much invite equally scathing responses.

            2. DDDDDuane,

              I can use spinach as an example. It is a vegetable. It is good for you. That is what you would learn in Whole Food Plant-Based beginning classes.

              Then, suddenly, you get up to oxalates, and “Spinach can kill you.” is what you may learn or may never learn.

              How much spinach you can eat is a secondary rule – and a very important one – and most people never learn it – which doesn’t affect things much in America because people don’t eat enough of it to ever need the secondary rule.

              However, on the internet, people use that secondary rule and instead of saying, “Don’t eat too many cups of spinach every day” they post a paper on why not to go vegan Whole Food Plant-Based and point to oxalates and people get scared and don’t eat any of it.

              Also, I have seen people who hated things like kale, who saw green smoothies and wanted greens to prevent cancer and they started eating a lot of spinach and went off of Whole Food Plant-Based saying, “Don’t believe them when they tell you that leafy greens are safe. My organs started shutting down and I almost died.”

              The thing is, we teach things as if we are on opposing sides of a battlefield rather than doing a process that integrates information.

              That integration takes a long time.

              1. I guess the thing is that we have a complex system and we have taught people to communicate in ways that are either too complicated, meaning, “Not plain language” as in science and we have also taught people to debate and to present information in a power struggle way.

                There are very, very, very few people integrating information.

                The Press likes presenting one side today and then the opposite tomorrow in the most dramatic way possible.

                The public likes to just hear one-liners sound bytes.

                We don’t even time to become experts in almost anything. We want the Cliffs Note version of information and very few people write a balanced Cliffs Notes version.

                We get: Spinach is good for you. Followed by Spinach will kill you.

                Very few people stand in the middle and help the confused people.

      3. I consider myself a whole foods plant based person. But I use the term vegan to describe myself, because it’s more accurate than “vegetarian,” which could mean many things.

        So what’s a good term we can use to describe ourselves when a friend invites us to a bratwurst BBQ over the weekend? Saying “No thanks, I’m a Whole Foods Plant Based Person.” is too awkward.

        Mr F. You’re pretty sharp. Make up a good term for us. ; )

        1. If one really feels a need to label oneself, how ’bout “I’m a TryingMyBestPerson? TMBP :-)
          Maybe you could add HDY at the end. “Haven’tDiedYet”

          TMBPHDY

        2. whole food plant-based eater,

          There is a movement trying to keep “dietary vegans” from using the term vegan and I do understand that except that physicians use the term vegan when they are talking about diet, the Press uses the term vegan to describe diet, book stores, and libraries, even online, use the term vegan to talk about diet, and the general public use the term to talk about diet, and the grocery stores have always used the term vegan to talk about vegan diet.

          What has changed because of that movement is that Plant-based is now used even when it is “vegan junk food” and the “vegan junk food” was made not for health reasons, it was made because of “animal rights” motivations.

          But Whole Food Plant-Based is taking storm so all of the vegan sections are now referring to themselves as Plant-Based and now people think they have done Whole Food Plant-Based by eating what used to be called vegan meatless products and vegan junk food.

          The thing is, more people will get confused and think they have tried “Plant-Based” even though they never eat a fruit or a vegetable or a legume or a grain.

          Yes, I would have rather the diet still be called vegan, too, with Whole Food Plant Based versus vegan processed foods subtitles.

          That proves that I am health-oriented.

          I do care about the animal rights movement but I hate seeing signs every two feet saying, “Plant-Based” and none of it being healthy.

          My relatives were already confused enough.

          I would rather have all of the legumes, grains, and all of the vegetables and fruits moved into the same section and call that section Plant-Based and then have an “animal-free” section next to it.

          1. Politically, the vegan community insisting that the diet part isn’t vegan has removed the word vegan from most of the grocery store, except for the packaging of things like processed food and junk food – where vegan stands out better than other options and “Plant-Based” over on the “Whole Food Plant-Based” side doesn’t necessarily mean vegan. Most of the diets have a small amount of animal product options.

            So, what has happened is that the word “vegan” will not be as visible because “Plant-Based” is more popular and less controversial and doesn’t necessarily mean vegan, so vegan can be erased from that format.

            Plus, Plant-Based can now officially be exploited by every food version of snake oil salesman.

            I feel like vegan stepped out of the limelight by insisting that they weren’t about diet.

            I am the only one arguing from this direction and the person at Dr. Barnard’s comments said, “No, they use Plant-Based so that people don’t think about the vegan cause” and I don’t know how to softly say, “Well, the fact that you don’t think of vegan as a diet in the first place may have contributed” Plus the fact that vegan has been adversarial with society and the masses wanting “health benefits” embraces “Plant-Based” as a concept, even if now they just buy the same package of Morning Star Farms Chickn and an almond milk that has lots of oil and almost no nuts.

            1. The fact that many of the diets, like Ornish and Fuhrman have not been vegan, even though they would fall under the category of “plant-based” even within these communities, if the processed foods people take the word “vegan” off of the packages since the food is not “vegan” and people who eat it aren’t “vegan” suddenly life could become 100% more interesting in the grocery store.

              1. Prediction, Vegan loses its press moments as the dietary word is replaced by “Plant-Based” and “Plant-Based” to the press is the Impossible Burger and Beyond Burger and every money-making scheme that the vegans maybe were trying to throw off. But next, “Plant-Based” loses some of its health claims as studies switch the words without understanding the WHOLE point.

                1. Okay, I was walking through the Whole Foods and saw Just egg and it skipped over vegan and has tiny letters saying plant-based and doesn’t identify vegan at all.

                  What occurred to me is that plant-based will trounce both vegan and Whole Food Plant-Based and corporations and marketing will be the ones who define it.

                  It will erase vegan and get rid of the baggage of. Vegan but will help the animals and planet maybe more than vegan ever could have.

                  1. Just print out copies of the Daily Dozen and tape one to the fridge at home and the other at work. Doesn’t matter what you call yourself, it matters what you eat. Eat from the list only and you will be a new person in 90 days. (and setting a great example for the relatives).

        3. The original term before ‘vegetarian’ was coined, was ‘vegetable diet’. This was based on the old Linnaean classification system dividing all matter into animal, vegetable and mineral. ‘Vegetables’ therefore referred to all plants, fungi and the like. That vegetable diet would perhaps today be called a vegan diet (even though most people who eat a so-called vegan diet aren’t actually vegans).
          https://ivu.org/history/vegetarian.html

          These days though people seem to think that vegetables only refers to leafy vegetables or root vegetables when in fact in its original sense it includes fruits, nuts, seeds, whole grains etc.

          So perhaps you could say that you are on a mainly vegetable diet …. or that you eat mainly plants. But if you say ‘mainly’ people will often press you to make an exception just this one time. That’s what happens with me. So these days, I just say that I am a strict vegetarian although sometimes I say that I am on the classic vegetable diet.

          1. Tom,

            That is fascinating!

            Yes, “strict” is threatening.

            I have people sending me recipes with meat and saying that I can leave it out.

            Psychologically, it helps them. Collagen is what they would like me to demonstrate that I am not a vegan and though I don’t identify as a strict vegan even to myself, collagen isn’t where I cross over. If you walk through my house, my sneakers and some furniture will tell you that I am not a vegan. Though I bought the furniture before WFPB but still, I think my New Balance sneakers probably don’t make the cut.

            JUST egg fascinates me in their package marketing. For the first several times I saw them, I thought they were just egg versus JUST egg. Brilliantly it will be lazy egg eaters who will be buying them the most.

            1. Yes , I am not a vegan either. I am a vegetarian in the true meaning of the word. How people can convince themselves that ‘vegetarian’ actually means someone who doesn’t eat meat leaves me open-mouthed with astonishment.

    3. Reality bites,

      Dr. Greger never said that milk was the “cause” of acne. As Mr. Fumblefingers pointed out, milk (along with other dairy products, junk foods, meat, and eggs) all tend to increase “the activity of the enzyme TOR, contributing to acne and obesity.’“ So they are contributing factors, but not the cause.

      Thus, these foods may increase the risk of acne. But even eating a better diet (more fruits and vegetables, less animal products) is highly unlikely to make the risk go to zero.

      And, as Mr. Fumblefingers also pointed out, there can be a vast difference between eating a vegan diet and eating whole plant foods. A whole plant foods diet which avoids animal products and processed foods can be considered vegan, but a vegan diet may completely avoid whole plant foods and consist entirely of junk and processed and prepared foods.

  2. I had acne bad as a teenager. I didn’t go to a dermatologist. I used makeup touchup to cover it up. Of course, this made it worse. A low point was in football practice when the nose guard asked me if I was wearing makeup (don’t recall what I said here). The QB I snaped the ball to had acne much worse than I did. Baking soda may have helped more than anything else. Glad those days are over.

    1. Dan,

      Thanks for sharing.

      I did go to a dermatologist as a young person. Boy, I wonder how many young people are being saved from that experience by the demise of the milk industry.

  3. In my clinical experience milk is a major factor. Oils have been shown to be a component as well. Since 15% of western populations don’t experience the condition it just goes to show there is population variability or in other words “everyone is an experiment of one”. Maybe it is time for the Pediatricians to stop recommending dairy at age 2. Besides there might be unanticipated consequences like decrease in incidence of type 1 diabetes and later onset of puberty. Folks interested in more science on acne. Be well.

    1. Darwin,

      Thanks for sharing the Nelsons’ testimonial.

      The fact that they had that much of an improvement after just 6 weeks is pretty amazing.

  4. You will notice the complete absence of the fat content of bread or other grain products. Hilarious. This is such a two-faced approach to health care.

    Go and have a look at how much 1 gram of fat is. A slice of white bread has one gram of fat in it. Whole wheat bread has more than one gram.

    That is a lot of fat, especially when you consider that most people eat more than one slice at a time. A typical lunch is two sandwiches. So that’s at least 2 grams of fat, not counting what is put on the bread such as butter and processed meat and/or cheese or mayonaise.

    Then consider that at room temperature fat is a solid, insoluble therefore indigestible.

    Fat is unique in the digestive system. You don’t digest it, you diffuse it. Fat in the gut slowly breaks apart until it’s small enough to pass through the tight junctions. On the other side of the colon wall it diffuses into the blood stream and lymph canals where it re-congeals into a larger blob of fat that then sticks to arterial walls, narrowing them, or piles up in your lymph nodes making them swell.

    Articles on bread always tell you that whole grain is better for you. What they don’t tell you is that what they mean by better doesn’t really amount to a hill of baked beans. They give meaningless percentages that are useless outside of a lab.

    Grain, any grain has fat in it. But processed foods almost always have animal fat added as well as a variety of other fats.

    Milk is a cause, as well as a factor.

    Both gluten and casein substantially change the viscosity of our body fluids which in turn changes mobility and flow. Thickened mucus does not flow, it oozes if it moves at all. That has profound implications throughout the body.

    Machinery is designed for specific fluid weights and other dynamic factors and living bodies are no different with respect to flow, mobility, chemistry, formulation and countless other factors. When our fluids are thickened with glue from grain and dairy, then populated with fats, bacteria, viruses, sugars and lots of other muck, it all ends up accumulating somewhere. Most is excreted but in for people who are constipated, it’s a completely different story.

    Remember the saying, you are what you eat. Well Dr. Greger and pals might want to remember that. Nothing ingests glue with impunity.

      1. That’s right Tom. They’d all be a lot healthier if they did. Most of them are probably constipated as well and I’m sure you know what broad assortment of issues that comes with.

        Doesn’t it bother you that nearly all of the science on grains starts with the assumption that grain is the staff of life?

        Doesn’t it bother you that only rodents can consume grain constantly with seeming impunity? Ever wonder why they live such short lives?

        1. John

          Most human beings throughout recorded history have lived on grains.

          Rice based cultures in the East, cereals in the Middle East and Europe, maize in Meso America, and millet, teff, sorghum and even wheat in many parts of Africa. All grains People eating those traditional diets have often been noted for healthy longevity and freedom from chronic disease. From what I understand, it has been moving away from those traditional grain-based diets that has been associated with explosive increases in chronic disease rates.

          I am not aware of any evidence that obtaining a substantial proportion or even a majority of calories from whole grains is unhealthful. Can you cite any?

          1. As I’ve said before, I use foods as medical tools to achieve medical results.

            With grain, dairy, sugar and fat (therefore all fat saturated domestic meat) in your diet, you cannot initiate the healing process well if at all.

            No animal on earth beyond the African oxpecker consumes the raw, live milk of another species for a prolonged period of time with impunity.

            There are human exceptions, the Masai and the Mongolians. Both cultures modify their milk before they drink it.

            Farmers that have direct access to their own cows may escape immediate consequences.

            There aren’t studies that I’m aware of to track consequences of drinking raw milk chemistry to identify drawbacks that I’m aware of.

            The rest of us get dead pasteurized milk whose proteins are casein, a natural glue.

            Grains have varying amounts of gluten which we all know is Latin for GLUE.

            Wheat is the worst offender followed by rice though for different reasons.

            Glue has a thickening effect on our saliva/mucus. That effect is:

            1. It slows down the rate of flow from watery to oozing;

            2. It transforms our mucus from an agent that steers pathogens from the body into an agent that instead becomes habitat for pathogens;

            3. Slowed rate of flow, means more time for pathogens to establish themselves – think Covid-19;

            4. With grain and dairy residuals as permanent in our mucus, fermentation is an on-going permanent chemical process in our respiratory/digestive tracts that is completely and utterly unnatural.

            5. Our bodies did not evolve to counter fermentation.

            6. Our dentition is the usual first evidence of chemical distress. Since the introduction of fermentation to our bodies thanks to grain ingestion, humans have become the only species plagued by species wide dental problems.

            7. Dental problems progress to gum diseases and gum diseases breach our immune systems when gums begin to bleed. Once that happens, pathogens, including Covid-19, have direct guided missile accuracy to access every cell in the human body. Who has gum disease? People who consume grain.

            8. Grains, unlike other plant based foods are dry foods that contribute to dehydration. As they pass through us they clump and attract moisture. The sticky factor promotes constipation even when “whole” grains are used. Oats are an exception because they have so much water added to cook. Even so they cause other problems for many people. They are not safe in a health restoration setting unless you know the pitfalls and how to avoid them.

            9. Grain and dairy both cause blockages throughout the body as does fat on a cumulative basis. This has perpetuated the belief that these foods cause little harm for most people due to the time delay between cause and effect.

            10. I have charted the diseases caused by or linked to grain and dairy consumption. There are 55 of them, most are ultimately fatal without medical intervention or, by just stopping their consumption which is less invasive. Too bad I can’t post the chart here.

            11. Between grain and dairy, they are the root of many allergies/sensitivities.

            12. The only class of animal that eats grain intentionally as a food basic is rodents. In order to do so, they eat it, partially digest it, then excrete it. Once dried and having lost its adhesive properties the grain-loaded feces are re-consumed. Without re-consumption, the rodent suffers acute malnutrition.

            13. To consume grain, rodents have evolved structure that non-grain esters have not. The first are teeth that never stop growing. For that reason, they never develop gum disease because the plaque that forms when seed content mixes with saliva does not caulk their dental arches with microscopic residue that in human mouths crystallizes into sharp spikes that eventually pierce the gums causing them to bleed. The residues are carried away from the gum line as the tooth grows.

            14. Grain consumption has caused more pain and misery for the grain eating human race than any other activity or substance.

            15. Add dairy, fat/meat and sugar to the human diet and you have the recipe for tissue destruction in slow motion thanks to resulting fermentation and constipation.

            We have deluded ourselves for centuries where processed food is concerned and persist in intentionally learning nothing despite modern science.

            The bottom line is that few people really want to know the truth.

            Out of all of you, Dr. Greger is probably the only one who understands what I’ve just said. The rest of you let it wash over you.

            Keep in mind that this is just a glimpse of the much broader picture of my work.

            Don’t waste your time asking me for citations because I am the original theorist.

            I know you are unaccustomed to encountering someone who does his own thinking and expresses his own opinions, but changes can never happen unless someone actually does something different.

            1. ‘Don’t waste your time asking me for citations because I am the original theorist.
              I know you are unaccustomed to encountering someone who does his own thinking and expresses his own opinions, but changes can never happen unless someone actually does something different’

              Inventing your own ‘facts’ may constitute doing your own thinking, John, but many people prefer to have their medical and nutritional advice grounded in reality instead.

              What you do is make assertions, a number of which appear to contradict known science. The gaps in your knowledge have appeared substantial on occasion too. You didn’t even know that grains are grass seeds until it was pointed out to you, for example, but that didn’t stop you claiming that all the advice regarding whole grains from the World Health Organization downwards is wrong.

              There’s nothing wrong with expressing your own opinions John. We all do it. But if we want others to take our opinions seriously, it’s usually considered helpful to provide supporting evidence or at least some kind of credible logic.

              1. I did know the grass is grain. As I said at the time, I make distinction based on the impact of gluten/glue which is what we are talking about.

                The glue factor is easy to look up.

                This is a casual conversation forum. I’m not writing a book here.

                Everything I say can be verified without a citation in your own kitchen. You don’t need a citation to tell you what watercress is going to do for you, just eat the damned stuff and leave the bread at the grocery store. That will not kill you, I promise.

    1. John Newell,

      It looks like it’s time for a reposting of the famous research paper entitled:
      “Food groups and risk of all-cause mortality: a systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective studies”

      This study is a compilation of data from other studies which involved thousands of people all over the world.

      Here’s the link:

      https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/105/6/1462/4569801

      The food group with the highest Risk Reduction was Whole Grains! The more you eat, the less likely you will succumb to a chronic disease and die early. Legumes/Beans were next on the list.

      Figure 2 on page 5 of the research paper shows an excellent graph of the risk ratios of each food group.

      ABSTRACT
      Background: Suboptimal diet is one of the most important factors
      in preventing early death and disability worldwide.

      Objective: The aim of this meta-analysis was to synthesize the
      knowledge about the relation between intake of 12 major food
      groups, including whole grains, refined grains, vegetables, fruits,
      nuts, legumes, eggs, dairy, fish, red meat, processed meat, and
      sugar-sweetened beverages, with risk of all-cause mortality.

      Conclusion: Selecting specific optimal intakes of the investigated
      food groups can lead to a considerable change in the risk of premature
      death. Am J Clin Nutr 2017;105:1462–73.

      1. Once again missing the point entirely.
        I come at the nutrition medicine issue from the point of view of using food as medicine for degenerative diseases.

        I am not suggesting you live without grains for the rest of your life.

        The research you posted was entirely useless in that context.

        I use food like an auto mechanic uses the tools in his tool box with exactly the same sort of expectation of success.

        To me, you people come across as mentally handicapped where the medical application of food is concerned.

        How do you all read so much of this stuff and get so little out of it. No wonder it took so long to invent the wheel.

        1. John

          I hope you understand that some of us here feel the same way about you. Your refusal to accept the facts staring you in the face is positively heroic at times. Not to mention your belief that you know more about these matters (and are a whole lot cleverer) than the global scientific, medical and nutritionist communities

          1. Of course I do Tom. The difference is that I have tried everything talked about here and found no useful results from a health restoration perspective. You, on the other hand are unwilling or unable to test what I’ve said despite knowing there are no harmful side effects from restricting your diet to vegetables.

            Do you understand how little sense you make given your contributions to fasting and intermittent fasting?

            How do you expect to be taken seriously in that context?

            1. ‘Do you understand how little sense you make given your contributions to fasting and intermittent fasting?’

              What contributions to fasting and intermittent fasting?

              As for vegetables, I am a vegetarian and therefore restrict my diet to vegetables. Grains are vegetables.by the way.

              The definition of a vegetable is

              ‘1 A plant or part of a plant used as food, such as a cabbage, potato, turnip, or bean.’
              https://www.lexico.com/definition/vegetable

              Just to spell it out (apologies but no harm in making things crystal clear), a grain is a grass seed. In other words it is a part of a plant used as food.

  5. I’m in my early 30s and I’ve been still struggling with acne. I can somewhat reduce severity but never enjoy total freedom.
    As my face reacts very fast to foods that trigger acne i know that milk products are the worst for me. Vegetable Oils and even very tiny amounts of nuts which contain fats will in just 30 min after consumption trigger acne.
    Also long rigorous excesize will affect me also. Sometimes cold showers will trigger major acne.
    I came to accept that i have weak immune system. Regular fasting reduces severity. Usually i eat once a day in the evening. But the regime where i fast 40hours and eat twice during next 8 hours and repeat the cycle indefinetely lessens acne severity much better.

    1. Your reaction to fat has nothing to do with your immune system.

      Think of yourself as a bottle of congealed lard. Full right to the top. No more fat will fit into the bottle.

      The moment you ad more, you are pushing it like you are a tube of toothpaste.

      There are elements to your diet you have not described. In those things will be the easy to discern answer to your acne problem.

    2. Hi Tarvuz, thanks for your question. Acne can happen when too much oil is produced by your follicles dead skin cells accumulate in your pores
      bacteria build up in your pores. Also as you mentioned exercising can also create the perfect conditions for acne-causing bacteria and yeast to thrive, causing more frequent breakouts. The reason for having acne could be, environmental factors, hormonal , certain medications, such as certain corticosteroids, or related to diet to name a few. So what can one do ? Access your home environment if there is any trigger factor of harsh chemical, avoidance of the food that trigger it. Keeping the skin clean with natural ingredients. Dr Greger has a blog that explains so many areas related to skin and diet. As for after exercise making sure you clean your face immediately and showering quickly after work out and avoiding touching face during work out are some idea that might be useful to you.

      https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/skin-health/

      1. I don’t understand how you can claim that. It appears to be a factor in his case.

        Acne in adults has often been called a chronic inflammatory condition (and is therefore an aspect of the immune response).

        ‘There are compelling data showing that high-fat meals promote endotoxin [e.g., lipopolysaccharide (LPS)] translocation into the bloodstream, stimulating innate immune cells and leading to a transient postprandial inflammatory response. The nature of this effect is influenced by the amount and type of fat consumed. The role of various dietary constituents, including fats, on gut microflora and subsequent health outcomes in the host is another exciting and novel area of inquiry.’
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4424767/

            1. So, let me get this straight Tom.

              You know so little about mammals that you need me to actually cite the fact that no animals drink the milk of another species as part of their basic diet?

              You need me to find a citation for the fact that rodents are the only mammals tat eat grain? Are telling me that you did not know that rodents’ teeth grow continuously? Really?

              Oh, what about the fact that in all this time you never bothered to look up the word gluten to find out what it means in English?

              Surely you’ve had the odd Beer in your time and picked away at the label on the bottle. A curious guy like you didn’t check out what the glue was made of that makes them so hard to peel off? Then so guess I should not be surprised that you don’t know that buttons and knitting needles used to be made out of milk too.

              Did you forget that flour and water was the original wallpaper paste?

              Do you have a driver’s licence? I bet you do. So, that would mean you also own a car and are responsible for oil changes right? If so, then I should feel confident that you know the significance of summer weight oil and winter weight oil shouldn’t I? Yes I should. That means you understand how important viscosity is don’t you?

              So, I didn’t need to explain to you about what happens when mucus is thickened into gooey sludge when dairy and/or crushed grain are mixed with saliva right? Or when pathogens and white blood cells are added? Right again? Of course I am. You could not possibly be that dumb.

              Do you need me to go on Tom?

              This is just a small example of how damned stupid your comment is and how collectively stupid the world’s scientists are. And the doctors. None of this stuff is rocket science buddy boy. This is all extremely basic common sense a louse could figure out if a louse was interested.

              You know why the louse is not interested? Because lice eat what lice evolved to eat. What they have the body organs to metabolize.

              We don’t. We think that at some point the human race arrived from an alternate dimension where the laws of physics and chemistry are entirely different.

              So humans, unlike every plant, microbe, insect, amphibian, reptile, bird, fish and animal on planet earth can consume 9 meals without taking a dump and call that normal.

              Have you never stopped to wonder why humans are the sickest species that has ever lived? Could it be that we are the only species that puts fermentables in bodies that only have ONE stomach?

              I swear to God Tom, I thought you were smarter than that!

              Covid-19 is is another amazing global collapse of common sense.

              How could a virus that has been around longer than hominids suddenly be a threat?

              How come the world’s medical geniuses can‘t figure that one out? What has changed.

              Us? The virus? Or maybe, just maybe, the fact that our body chemistry has changed so substantially in the last 6,000 years or so, that we’ve become the perfect hosts?

              Come on Tom. I’ve given you all the clues to figure out out how to kill any corona viruses.

              Let’s see if you can solve it as fast as I did.

              1. John

                Your beliefs include a number of invented facts eg

                ‘You need me to find a citation for the fact that rodents are the only mammals tat eat grain?’

                That one’s particularly bizarre. There are hundreds if not thousands of mammals including humans that eat grain. Pretty much all mammalian herbivores eat grass (including the seeds ie grain) and not a few omnivores for that matter. Some smaller mammals like rats and mice, hamsters, gerbils etc may even specialise in eating grains. One of the omnivores that consume grains is man.

                The evidence I’ve seen suggests that eating whole grains has a positive effect on human health. Despite repeated requests, you’ve never been able to cite any evidence that consuming whole grains is unhealthful. That doesn’t stop you asserting over and over again that they are.

                1. Not as the main dietary constituent. Only as an unavoidable consequence of eating something else and not all year long every day to exclusion of real food as people do.

                  On top of that, wild grain does not have the elevated glue content that domestic grain does.

                  Some species of birds eat grain. They have gizzards. Some insects eat grain. I have never dissected an insect to find out how they metabolize glue but they must secrete the chemical equivalent of Murphy’s Oil.

                  Glue is not a menu item for anything.

                  Why don’t you separate some gluten from wheat and try living on that and see how long you last. Or casein.

                  Can you think of another “vegetable” that causes constipation the way grain can?

                  Of course whole grain bread is supposed to be 23% better right? Being better does not mean no constipation. It means 23% less for some people. Bread is no longer recommended for birds or squirrels. It kills them. Duh!!???

                  The end result of grain consumption is very often reduced transit time. You don’t need a citation for that. You can do the same experiments I have with different foods to find out what works and what slows your system down.

                  With a little effort, you can identify exactly which foods do what to your intestinal efficiency. You don’t need a citation for something that fundamental you should have done for yourself by now.

                  It’s irresponsible to leave the study of food constituents to professional scientists who are paid via grants from big food interests. People who have a huge vested interest in keeping fake information at eye level in grocery stores.

                  A sceptic like you should have seen through this by now.

                  I used to design grocery stores years ago. I drew merchandise plans and I invented the planogram system while I was at Sears.

                  With grocery stores I took it one step further. Instead of just labelling what the food product was on the shelf, I included ingredients and what those ingredients do to you. Only the produce aisle is safe as long as you wash off the herbicides, insecticides and wind borne contaminants.

                  You can imagine how popular I was. No one cared that I was right.

                  Everything not in the vegetable section with few exceptions is LOADED with ingredients that are not food no matter how organic they are claimed to be. It’s all about shelf life. You’ve heard of day old bread right?

                  There are reasons why day old bread is less good for you than fresh.

                  Why do you suppose bread can now last longer than a week? How has butter become the Twinkie of the dairy industry?

                  For a guy who purports to have a finer appreciation of science than most you don’t seem to have the open inquisitive mind expected of real scientists.

                  You probably have a pretty good education that includes science and math but you have not apparently progressed past the plodder stage.

                  I am a high school drop out. I never passed a single physics or chemistry test even after taking both at night school.

                  But on my own time as a kid, I became one of the top tropical fish experts in Canada, developed and manufactured Fish food that sold in stores. I bred nearly all available species.

                  Later I worked at resolving pandemics in the tropical fish trade. Those are remarkably similar to human pandemics and follow the exact same rules.

                  Fish and people have the same dietary requirements broadly speaking and the same dietary restrictions. We have the same ancestors after all if you go back far enough. Those basics have not changed

                  So if you feed grain to a fish, you get the same health problems people get. The same goes for dogs and cats and cattle that we routinely feed with stuff none of them evolved to eat. So now all of them die of cancer if something else doesn’t get them first.

                  With fish you also get the same time lapse between cause and effect and the aquatic equivalent of the same diseases for the same reasons.

                  As a high school drop out, I’ve never stopped learning at my own pace. I still cannot remember valences. Who cares?

                  I do remember seeing what happens to Siamese Fighting Fish (Betta Splendens) when you feed them hamburger. Or flake food instead of daphnia or glass worms.

                  I know what foods have a laxative effect on fish and what constipates them. Fish cannot become constipated on their natural diet any more than any other animal can. Neither can humans.

                  My suggestion for you is that you use that brilliant mind of yours and start thinking for yourself instead of assuming that constipated scientists actually have a clue about what they’re doing. Believing that scientists know what they are doing delusional. Experiments are more often misinterpreted by their authors than not.

                  If your thinking is faulty to begin the research, the end result will be equally faulty. So, if everyone believes grain is wonderful before they even start and without a sound understanding of systemic constipation, how coherent are the conclusions?

                  Do you need a citation for scientists being constipated? If you do, then I further suggest you use your head and figure out why I’m right. Good mental exercise.

                  You don’t need a citation for everything. Good science starts with a good question and goes from there to prove or disprove.

                  Science is burdened with a lot of sacred cows that are long past their best before dates and need to be slaughtered to put them and us out of our collective misery.

                  1. I am far from brilliant John. Knowing that I am not a brilliant unsung genius is one of the advantages i have over you.

                    Some of the assertions you make seem obviously incorrect, particularly your imaginative claims about grains..

                    Sure, eating raw grains is problematic for humans just as eating unprocessed cassava, certain yams, taro etc is. They have to be processed first.to render them non-toxic. That’s one the reasons humans have the ability to benefit nutritionally from grains. They can apply simple technology to do this, Another is the starch digesting enzymes we have compared to other apes.

                    As for all this stuff about gluten, well it’s certainly very fashionable but whether all the fear-mongering has any scientific foundation is dubious.. Gluten is just a protein
                    https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-who-found-evidence-for-gluten-sensitivity-have-now-shown-it-doesn-t-exist

                    I’m also not aware of any epidemic of mortality, morbidity or constipation as a consequence of seitan consumption.

                    You argue these claims by assertion. You give the impression that the actual evidence is irrelevant. I try not to take anybody’s word for it even yours. i want to see the evidence first. That’s another difference between us ….. I’m prepared to let the facts trump my opinions

                    1. There’s another difference between us.

                      If you had suffered the various ailments I have that that modern medicine got wrong, you would be dead, or having to take various drugs.

                      I looked for alternatives and those alternatives are why I’m still living and drug free.

            2. Nice try Tom. The grain they eat is Fonio. Have you ever eaten Fonio? I have. I have some right now. Fonio grains are about the size of sugar grains, or beach sand and nearly as hard as sand. The amount of gluten in Fonio is to slight to be bothered about.

              The amount of work it takes to make it edible is such that when a machine to process it was invented in 2012, the guy who did it won a Nobel Prize for his accomplishment.

              The story is cited in my book PITCHIN’ A LOAF AN’ MAKIN’ IT WORK. You’ll have to wait for it.

              Fat Consumption is a big factor in acne. Those cultures that consume a lot of high fat domesticated animal meat have a lot of acne. Lots of products vegetarians eat and drink are loaded with fat. African beef is not at all similar in fat content to North American beef.

              Beef here is so saturated in fat that is cannot be fed to fish without killing them.

              When I was working out the recipe for my commercially sold frozen fish food in the 70s and 80s, I experimented with different types of meat based on cost and quality, not species.

              What I found was that the fat content of beef muscle was so high that when the meat was liquified, it was impossible to get all of the fat out of the tissues. I’m not talking about fat you can see, I’m talking about fat that is invisible to the naked eye until the meat has been liquified in a food processor.

              When done, the liquid fat is congealed on the processor barrel. It’s lard.

              So when you think you’re eating lean beef, you are really eating chunks of lard.

              The heart is the leanest muscle. That was useable but even so, only half of the heart was actually meat that could be digested by fish.

              So my frozen fish food was actually half meat and half plant material. Piranhas loved it.

              Green plants promote healing because plants contain saponins. Remember them? Grains contain high amounts of saponins which can cause gut permeability.

              Vegetables are just what the doctor ordered.

              Legumes and pseudo grains like quinoa and amaranth, contain lots of saponins too.

              People who eat vegetables rather than grains don’t suffer the gut issues caused by excessive amounts of saponins but still benefit from the detergent effect of the saponins. So no acne.

              That is my theory based on what I know about fat and other elements in food.

              1. John

                I prefer facts to speculations and assertions.

                As for the Dogon, they grow and eat millet, sorghum and (some) rice. Fonio is just a type of millet. Yes, the grains are quite small, about the size of rice grains, but so what? Grains are by definition small and hard. That’s why we talk about grains of salt, gunpowder, sand etc.

                All cereal grains have to be processed to make them edible. Yes, fonio grains have little or no gluten. That’s because millet is gluten-free like oats, rice, maize, sorghum, teff etc. But that isn’t really relevant is it (because you condemn all grains)?.

                Grains by the way are by definition vegetables.

              2. I don’t know what Fonio you are talking about but the Fonio I have is much, much smaller than rice grain, in fact half the size of a plantain seed.

  6. I grew up in America’s Dairyland, and we drank a lot of milk and ate a lot of cheese and butter. Nobody ever had acne in the family. What’s left of us still has clear, pimple-free skin.

    I didn’t like the taste of milk all by itself, so had to have a cookie or “something to drink with my milk,” as I’d put it. I sure did love toasted cheese sandwiches and tomato.

    1. YR, I did have a few pimples when I was a teenager, but I didn’t “go Blind” like I was told I would ;-)

      Ah, the old myths from back in the day!

    2. YR, BTW, In case you didn’t see it, below is my response post to your funny story about going into the men’s room by mistake!

      YR, Wow, that’s a funny story!
      For a minute I thought you were going to say that the stall was out of TP, and you had to ask the person in the next stall for a coupla squares ;-)
      Remember the Seinfeld episode when that happened to Elaine :-)

      1. Yeah, that was a great Elaine/Seinfield sketch, wasn’t it! Where ARE those good TV shows? I don’t watch any of them anymore, had several favs back in the day.

        Now….like is grim, life is scary. 2020 is shaping up to be what the psychics said it would, all right. Nobody said it would be easy, as they say. :-(

        1. YR, yes, I agree … there are no good TV shows left worth watching. Nor movies either … Hollywood has gone down the drain :-(

          1. I haven’t gone to a movie in years. Haven’t heard of the present-day “stars” and “celebrities,” and it’s been years since I stayed up just to watch the Oscars. Who cares! :-) Hollywood has a lot of pedophiles and such, nowadays. Truth will come out on this.

            The only good movies worth watching, IMO, are those on the TCM channel. And for me, they have to be rated with at least 3 stars to bother with, preferably 4. And the more current the better. Even so, most of them are a big yawn.

          2. No good TV shows? Only because you don’t have Netflix.

            Foreign films and TV shows have left Hollywood in the dust.

            Parasite did not win the best film Oscar for no good reason. Even with subtitles, these shows are what Hollywood wishes it can produce and cannot.

            Watch any of these:

            LA NINA

            MEMORIES OF THE ALHAMBRA

            CRASH LANDING ON YOU

            THE SECRET LIFE OF MY SECRETARY

            MR. SUNSHINE

            MY MISTER

            BODYGUARD

            That’s enough to keep you going for weeks.

        2. Funny how none of those psychics, astrologers, fortune tellers etc predicted this particular pandemic.

          Vague generalities of course – can’t go wrong with those can we?

            1. YR, Wow, that prediction IS rather specific! Hmmm, it is said that everything is related and science is just now beginning to delve into how. And the relatedness exists in both the 3 spacial dimensions as well as the time dimension (both past & future)!

              Here’s just one interesting website: https://www.spaceandmotion.com/

              1. Looks like a good one, Darwin….will definitely check it out. :-)

                Speaking of predictions: More than one psychic predicted that a Big Biggie will happen on or around July 4. One was more specific, but I dare not say anything. Because even to me, it sounds pretty outrageous.

                  1. Wow, Darwin….somehow the writers knew what Big Brother would turn into. Nowadays, if we aren’t wearing our little maskie-maskies (probably for the rest of our lives), we’ll be arrested and thrown into jail with no more than a little crust of bread and rusty tap water.

                    But I play a semi-Kramer when I board buses and enter buildings. I put my mask just a bit below my nose so I can at least breathe. What a life. :-(

            2. Oh please – Those in the field of infectious disease have been predicting a/this pandemic for decades. All one has to do is look at the Science. Laurie Garrett, an infectious disease scientist, has predicted this. And anyone with a couple of brain cells could have predicted this pandemic from the SARS and ebola epidemics.
              https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Coming_Plague/v9RY2PVOtOMC?hl=en&gbpv=0
              Garrett is one of many who have predicted this situation and ALSO predicted that we, the USA, would not be prepared. And Garrett published her research/book in 1992. 18 years ago.

  7. I was in a second hand bookstore today and found a book “Heart Failure” written by a “Michael Greger (MD)”. Was it written by Dr Greger, as I have never seen it being touted anywhere or by himself/his profile?

    1. TC,

      I read it back before reading the Bird Flu book back shortly after How Not To Diet.

      I think the “Heart Failure” book is probably so personal of Dr. Greger as a young man and so exposing of the process of becoming a doctor. At times, it felt more like it was random rambling. In some ways, I was almost surprised by that one by how emotional and impulsive and how much of the rebellion and frustration Dr. Greger shared. It almost at points felt guttural. Like a cry of pain or a cry for help. Not putting down Dr. Greger. Just saying, it was him as a young man facing the system. Young man’s search for meaning. Trying to figure out how to keep his soul. Honestly, at times it didn’t feel written at all. Almost like when people do inner child writing.

      In contrast, the Bird Flu book was so well-written that I was almost surprised by the eloquence and depth of the writing. Fabulous writing. It was reviewed as a zinger and I immediately agreed.

  8. This morning, I was reading about how Florida has a mutation of COVID-19 that is much more contagious because it had more spikes (versus the one Arizona had that had lost genetic information and was much less virulent)

    Well, I watched this video by a man who did all the right things social distancing and then had one day he went to pick-up food at a restaurant that had opened their patio and even though he was just doing take-out he ended up having a long wait and people outside didn’t have their masks on and he got COVID-19.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlnD5hAaS3k

    I post it because in the USA we are opening and things are spiking and my father already started eating inside restaurants and not outside.

    Also, it is very hot and humid and we are using air conditioning at work and I just replaced my IQ air purifier filters trying to not have the air conditioning spread COVID-19.

    I feel like summer just made this process more complex – rather than easier.

    I still do have my UVC lamps. I just don’t quite have the right wavelength. Just a tad out of the one I could use while people are working.

    But I can use them during lunch breaks or something like that.

    This man’s testimonial is what I have been afraid of.

    The National Guard getting COVID-19 from the protests means that outside isn’t safe, even if it is safer than inside.

    Having the virus be more contagious means that we have to keep re-evaluating.

    They said that they believe Brazil got the more contagious version.

    That is the thing. We look at some places and use them as models but each place gets their own unique version of COVID-19.

    I have been thinking about Spain and their zero deaths – where they started out with so many. Who knows if they stopped having deaths because they had a less virulent mutation or if they finally figured out how to treat it or whether they are lying about the deaths or whether hydroxychloroquine with zinc maybe works for them because they get to the people early enough.

  9. More Covid-19 news. A slightly different outlook from the mainstream, but from a reputable scientist.

    Bottom line: Up to 80% may not even be susceptible to Covid-19.

    Karl Friston uses advanced mathematical models much more sophisticated than the crude models used by WHO and most world governments.

    How do the models you use differ from the conventional ones epidemiologists rely on to advise governments in this pandemic?
    Conventional models essentially fit curves to historical data and then extrapolate those curves into the future. They look at the surface of the phenomenon – the observable part, or data. Our approach, which borrows from physics and in particular the work of Richard Feynman, goes under the bonnet. It attempts to capture the mathematical structure of the phenomenon – in this case, the pandemic – and to understand the causes of what is observed. Since we don’t know all the causes, we have to infer them. But that inference, and implicit uncertainty, is built into the models. That’s why we call them generative models, because they contain everything you need to know to generate the data. As more data comes in, you adjust your beliefs about the causes, until your model simulates the data as accurately and as simply as possible. Standard models start to fall apart when you think about the underlying causes of the data. You need models that can allow for all possible states, and assess which ones matter for shaping the pandemic’s trajectory over time.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/31/covid-19-expert-karl-friston-germany-may-have-more-immunological-dark-matter

    and, https://unherd.com/2020/06/karl-friston-up-to-80-not-even-susceptible-to-covid-19/

      1. YR, Interesting video and article (Broze-Corbett). I think we’re finding out the Deep State is really really deep and … world-wide! Too many coincidences to be a “conspiracy” theory.

          1. YR, Yes, I did see the Candace video the other day. I haven’t seen any mention of it in the lamestream media, as usual! The LSM seem to oppose diversity of thought ;-( I’ve heard that all the LSM is owned by 6 large multi-national corporations and all the LSM speak in unison. And now the Silicon Valley billionaires who run the social media outlets are censoring any opposing views, also, whenever they can find an excuse :-(

            I admire the courage of those like Candace who speak their minds, while risking the violent retribution of those who oppose her views.

            1. Yup to all of that. And you also probably heard of those who speak or act against the wishes of the Cabal are somehow “suicided.” Many, many unusual deaths over the years. :-(

    1. No one is susceptible to Covid-19 if they eat only the foods we evolved to eat.

      Earlier forms of corona viruses would have wiped us out long ago if that weren’t true

      You can read all about it soon in my new book: KILL THE CORONAVIRUS available soon on Amazon.

        1. Yes. The delay for that book was my inability to produce the index.

          Writing the shorter book and working with professional typesetters in the UK got me over that hump.

          Besides that, Covid-19 is a more pressing issue. So the #2 book that I expect to print using two different titles: A PORTRAIT OF A GOOD SHIT and PITCHIN’ A LOAF AN’ MAKIN’ IT WORK in the USA only, will now be my 3rd book.

          When you read how simple it is to do away with corona viruses you’ll understand why I seem so annoyed about the whole grain issue.

          As much as Tom gripes about my lack of citations, you’ll see clearly why they are unnecessary.

          You’ll also see that the one Really important citation Is there, which was a surprise for me because I did all the work long before science caught up to me.

          Putting that book together was exciting and nerve racking because I knew I had it nailed, but just like here, I ran into people like Tom who needs a citation to blow his nose.

          The people who did not require citations were the doctors and scientists I consulted to ensure that the information about the physiological processes would be accurate.

          Those people all urged me to keep going and get it done without exception. I talked to experts in their fields from Canada to California.

          I tried accessing European scientists but none of them ever responded. My best success was to call their labs directly.

          You can easily imagine that if my theories were not plausible, they would have hung up on me. That never happened.

          Where it did happen was with the Canadian government. They were extremely difficult to work with.

          The worst was Dr. Theresa Tam, Chief Public Health Officer who agreed to a conference call, then passed the buck to Dr. Pascal Michel at the last minute.

          Prior to that I had couriered two copies of KILL THE CORONAVIRUS to her. One went into the government mail system and was digested. The other must have reached Tam because she whose office set the date for the conference call to take place within two days of their having received the book.

          When she passed the buck to Dr. Michel, she did not pass the book. So when the call started, Dr. Michel, Health Canada’s Chief Public Health Scientist had no clue who I was, what the call was about or anything to do with the book at all. I had half an hour to make my point.

          Unfortunately the guy did not understand anything I said. I think I lost him with the word viscosity. He had no idea what that meant. How did he get out of Grade 8?

          My plan was to access government scientists and doctors to get them to help proof read the book to shorten the edit process. That was March 10. Only 80 people had died in Canada at that time. But when I first started trying to get help, that was in November. No one had even heard of Covid-19 yet. My members of both Federal and Provincial Parliaments tried to help set up meetings with our federal Minister of Health Patty Hajdu, but those efforts never got past her press secretary who could not speak English.

          By the time my book comes out another 1,000 Canadians will have died and about 125,000 Americans as well as several hundred thousand in other countries.

          I see all these deaths as unnecessary since the information could have been out there by March 15th if anyone was prepared to listen to me and act. Instead Dr. Tam appeared every night on the news spouting mostly useless trivia over and over, day after day.

          Releasing the information on line like here for example was a waste of effort because the non-doctors are all anti bullshit artists.

          That is hardly surprising when you consider how many fraudsters there are on line.

          But I had to try or have people saying I was just trying to make a quick buck while people die. There will still be people like that.

          But I think there will be enough people in the end who take it seriously and apply the process without cheating, then people will have to finally realize I’m right.

          Thing is, it’s a race to prevent this virus from becoming systemic. If it does, we are in big, big trouble. So I’m sitting on the edge of my chair watching this scenario play out like a horror movie.

          You know how popular Walking Dead Movies and TV shows are right now? Well Covid-19 is the viral equivalent to the Walking Dead.

          Are all people susceptible to this virus? Not yet. But this virus is evolving quickly.

          It’s major mutation is that it drains our body cells to replicate. Past Corona viruses were content with the bacterial load in our mucus. It did not want to kill us. To them our deaths were inadvertent accidents.

          Covid-19 is a man-eater.

  10. Fall Off Your Bike Theory of Gettiing Back Into Running:

    This thread is about to end, so I will blabber about my running progress. A few days ago while mountain biking in the cemetery, I fell off my bike twice, and lost some skin the first time. 20 years ago I biked in the same cemetery and had no problem with the hills. I didn’t break anything while falling. Just some soreness. I think the trauma helped my body loosen up though, kind of like, older people falling and benefiting from the stress. Anyway, I practiced hill running for 30 minutes this morning and did quite well. So, I went to the road to see if I can run. With extra effort and persistence and a run, stop, run, stop, run rhythm, I did pretty good. Maybe I should fall off my bike more often. Oh, and I did ten Dr. Greger burpees also with some push-ups thrown in.

    1. Dan, before I head out, I just thought I’d tell about my bike experience. Nobody wore bike helmets or other protective gear back when I was a kid. One day I thought I’d a country bike trip. By myself. Pretty hills and scenery where I lived.

      I peddled too fast down the hill, and over the thing I careened. I landed on my head and the bike landed wherever. Didn’t get a concussion even sans the helmet, but I never told my folks. Maybe, though, I yam what I yam because of it. (Never mind!)

      1. YR,
        That sounds like quite a crash. Do you ever wonder if you died then, but continued on in an alternate universe? Existence is supposed to be infinite like that. I’m just being silly. Actually, I’ve considered that about many of the close calls I’ve had, but that would take up too many alternate universes.

        1. Yes, I’ve heard about all that so-called woo-woo stuff. Have you ever heard that get three “exit points.” Have you ever heard of that? I’ve had several close calls (you wanna hear about them? No, I doubt if you’d want to…) It just wasn’t my time yet.

            1. YR,
              That explains it some. Kinda reminds me of NDE’rs who love the light and euphoria but are reminded their life here is not finished.

          1. YR,
            Is that like, three strikes and you are out? I”ve not heard that before, so it is interesting. I have heard, in this forum (I think), that you have to sign a contract (to be good?) to come to this place. That was the first time I heard that one. I’m sure we have all had close calls. Some so close to leave one wondering why we are still here.

    2. Dan, great to hear you are out there getting some exercise and seeing progress! I was going crazy here with the lock-down (gyms etc still aren’t open) so I bought a bike last week. I get up very early in the morning (rain or shine) to ride when there is no traffic and I can practice doing figure of 8s etc and get in a few laps around the block. It’s been 45 yrs since I’ve ridden a bike but I am doing fine and feel a lot better for the exercise. I take the dogs out, and walk by myself too, but the bike is strengthening other muscles and a welcome change of pace.

      1. Barb, I used to do “figure 8s” ice skating, but never heard of the term in regard to biking.

        I did do a lot of “riding without holding the handlebars for as long as possible,” whatever that’s called. You’re lucky to even have a bike in your life. It’s one of the things I miss…along with ice skating and ping pong (table tennis). And bowling. *sigh* Gotta go with the flow….
        .

      2. Barb,
        Great that you get out early before the traffic is up. I will have to find a big space to do figure 8’s, maybe a parking lot. Turning a tight 180 is a challenge for me. I will make an effort to continue biking. The cemetery I was biking in has good pathways, lots of deceased relatives to visit, facilities and the cars go slow.

  11. This topic deserves the widest possible circulation. The TOR pathway is a prime target of targeted cancer therapy.

  12. After reading some of the comments, an old (April) NY Post came to mind

    ‘Tighten your tinfoil hat.

    Ever since the coronavirus was discovered, misinformation has spread as quickly as the deadly disease.

    Wack-a-doo theories are causing people to destroy cellular towers and risk infection by joining protests. One Ohio man called the pandemic a “political ploy” and railed against stay-at-home orders, only to contract the disease and die. Cooped-up Americans are spending too much time online falling for pseudoscience and conspiratorial speculation when it comes to COVID-19.

    ………………………

    Those who think the country is controlled by a group of “deep-state” agents are chalking the coronavirus up to a government coup.

    Campaigns like #FilmYourHospital has led many to believe that empty waiting rooms and hospital parking lots are proof that the coronavirus is an elaborate hoax. Never mind that visitors have been banned for their own health and those of health-care workers.

    While the pandemic has surely ushered in a new normal, there’s no evidence that a secret cabal has orchestrated the whole mess to gain more leverage.’
    https://nypost.com/2020/04/24/the-top-5-coronavirus-conspiracy-theories-bill-gates-5g-more/

    1. I agree, there’s a lot of misinformation and no information. My work has not been disputed by the doctors or scientists I’ve discussed my theories with.

      My work is sound.

      What new knowledge on the subject have you contributed? There’s plenty of room for improvement over what people are being told so far which is almost nothing.

      1. True, I do not think that I am a genius who knows more, and is far cleverer, than the worldwide scientific and medical communities.

        I don’t go around spreading misinformation either.

    2. And then you have to wonder about the authors of that article. Who do they know? What makes them so 100% sure about this? As in everything, follow the money.

      1. I think that they were just pointing out that there’s no evidence that any of these claims is true.

        What makes you so sure that you right and dullards and sheeple like me are too brainwashed to see the truth?

        1. Never claimed to be right, only open to various possibilities. Yes, there are indeed dullards and sheeple who refuse to believe that maybe we ARE being controlled in some ways.

  13. The quotes at the end of this video are not in that paper… The William Danby paper, read it, it’s not too long, it does not say anything about eating more fruits and veggies… ?

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