Flashback Friday: The Problem with the Paleo Diet Argument

Flashback Friday: The Problem with the Paleo Diet Argument
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The Paleolithic period represents just the last two million years of human evolution. What did our bodies evolve to eat during the first 90% of our time on Earth?

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Our epidemics of dietary disease have prompted a great deal of research into what humans are meant to eat for optimal health. In 1985, an influential article was published proposing that our chronic diseases stem from a disconnect between what our bodies evolved eating during the Stone Age during the last two million years, and what we’re stuffing our face with today, advocating for a return towards a hunter-gatherer type diet of lean meat, fruits, vegetables, and nuts.

Though it may be reasonable to assume our nutritional requirements were established in the prehistoric past, the question of which prehistoric past remains. Why just the last two million? We’ve been evolving for 25 million years since our common great ape ancestor, during which time our nutrient requirements and digestive physiology were set down, and therefore probably little affected by our hunter-gatherer days at the tail end. So what were we eating for the first 90% of our evolution? What the rest of the great apes ended up eating: over 95% plants.

This may explain why we’re so susceptible to heart disease. For most of human evolution, cholesterol may have been virtually absent from the diet. No bacon, butter, trans fats, and massive amounts of fiber, which pulls cholesterol from the body. Now this could have been a problem, since our body needs a certain amount of cholesterol, so our bodies didn’t just evolve to make cholesterol, but to preserve it, recycle it. Our bodies evolved to hold onto cholesterol. And so if you think of the human body as a cholesterol-conserving machine, and plop it into the modern world of bacon/eggs/cheese/chicken/pork/pastry, well then, no wonder artery-clogging heart disease is our #1 cause of death. What used to be so adaptive for 90% of our evolution–holding on to cholesterol at all costs since we aren’t getting much in our diet–is today maladaptive, a liability leading to the clogging of our arteries. Our bodies just can’t handle it.

As the editor-in-chief of the American Journal of Cardiology noted 25 years ago, no matter how much fat and cholesterol carnivores eat, they do not develop atherosclerosis. You can feed a dog 500 eggs worth of cholesterol and a stick of butter and they just wag their tail; their bodies evolved from wolves, and are used to eating and getting rid of excess cholesterol, whereas within months, a fraction of that cholesterol can start clogging the arteries of animals adapted to eating a more plant-based diet.

Even if our bodies were designed by natural selection to eat mostly fruit, greens and seeds for 90% of our evolution, why didn’t we better adapt to meat-eating in the last 10%, during the Paleolithic? We’ve had nearly two million years to get used to all that extra saturated fat and cholesterol. If a lifetime of eating like that clogs up nearly everyone’s arteries, why didn’t the genes of those who got heart attacks die off and get replaced by those who could live to a ripe old age with clean arteries, regardless what they ate?

Because most didn’t survive into old age; they didn’t live long enough to get heart attacks. When the average life expectancy is 25, then the genes that get passed along are those that can just get us to reproductive age by any means necessary, and that means not dying of starvation. So the higher the calorie foods, the better. So eating lots of bone marrow and brains, human and otherwise, would have a selective advantage, as would discovering a time machine stash of Twinkies, for that matter. If we just have to live long enough to get our kids to puberty to pass along our genes, then we don’t have to evolve any protections against the ravages of chronic disease.

To find a population nearly free of chronic disease in old age, we don’t have to go back a million years. In the 20th century, networks of missionary hospitals in rural Africa found coronary artery disease virtually absent–and not just heart disease, but high blood pressure, stroke, diabetes, common cancers, and on down the list.

In a sense, these populations in rural China and Africa were eating the type of diet we’ve been eating for 90% of our last 20 or so million years–a diet almost exclusively of plant foods. How do we know it was their diet that protected them, and not something else?

In the 25-year update to their original Paleo paper, the authors tried to clarify that they did not then, and do not now, propose that people adopt a particular diet just based on what our ancient ancestors ate. Dietary recommendations must be put to the test. That’s why the pioneering research of Pritikin, Ornish, and Esselstyn is so important, showing that plant-based diets can not only stop heart disease, but have been proven to reverse it in the majority of patients. Indeed, it’s the only diet that ever has–perhaps because that’s what we ate through the vast majority of our evolution.

To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video. This is just an approximation of the audio contributed by Katie Schloer.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image thanks to ToM via Flickr.

Our epidemics of dietary disease have prompted a great deal of research into what humans are meant to eat for optimal health. In 1985, an influential article was published proposing that our chronic diseases stem from a disconnect between what our bodies evolved eating during the Stone Age during the last two million years, and what we’re stuffing our face with today, advocating for a return towards a hunter-gatherer type diet of lean meat, fruits, vegetables, and nuts.

Though it may be reasonable to assume our nutritional requirements were established in the prehistoric past, the question of which prehistoric past remains. Why just the last two million? We’ve been evolving for 25 million years since our common great ape ancestor, during which time our nutrient requirements and digestive physiology were set down, and therefore probably little affected by our hunter-gatherer days at the tail end. So what were we eating for the first 90% of our evolution? What the rest of the great apes ended up eating: over 95% plants.

This may explain why we’re so susceptible to heart disease. For most of human evolution, cholesterol may have been virtually absent from the diet. No bacon, butter, trans fats, and massive amounts of fiber, which pulls cholesterol from the body. Now this could have been a problem, since our body needs a certain amount of cholesterol, so our bodies didn’t just evolve to make cholesterol, but to preserve it, recycle it. Our bodies evolved to hold onto cholesterol. And so if you think of the human body as a cholesterol-conserving machine, and plop it into the modern world of bacon/eggs/cheese/chicken/pork/pastry, well then, no wonder artery-clogging heart disease is our #1 cause of death. What used to be so adaptive for 90% of our evolution–holding on to cholesterol at all costs since we aren’t getting much in our diet–is today maladaptive, a liability leading to the clogging of our arteries. Our bodies just can’t handle it.

As the editor-in-chief of the American Journal of Cardiology noted 25 years ago, no matter how much fat and cholesterol carnivores eat, they do not develop atherosclerosis. You can feed a dog 500 eggs worth of cholesterol and a stick of butter and they just wag their tail; their bodies evolved from wolves, and are used to eating and getting rid of excess cholesterol, whereas within months, a fraction of that cholesterol can start clogging the arteries of animals adapted to eating a more plant-based diet.

Even if our bodies were designed by natural selection to eat mostly fruit, greens and seeds for 90% of our evolution, why didn’t we better adapt to meat-eating in the last 10%, during the Paleolithic? We’ve had nearly two million years to get used to all that extra saturated fat and cholesterol. If a lifetime of eating like that clogs up nearly everyone’s arteries, why didn’t the genes of those who got heart attacks die off and get replaced by those who could live to a ripe old age with clean arteries, regardless what they ate?

Because most didn’t survive into old age; they didn’t live long enough to get heart attacks. When the average life expectancy is 25, then the genes that get passed along are those that can just get us to reproductive age by any means necessary, and that means not dying of starvation. So the higher the calorie foods, the better. So eating lots of bone marrow and brains, human and otherwise, would have a selective advantage, as would discovering a time machine stash of Twinkies, for that matter. If we just have to live long enough to get our kids to puberty to pass along our genes, then we don’t have to evolve any protections against the ravages of chronic disease.

To find a population nearly free of chronic disease in old age, we don’t have to go back a million years. In the 20th century, networks of missionary hospitals in rural Africa found coronary artery disease virtually absent–and not just heart disease, but high blood pressure, stroke, diabetes, common cancers, and on down the list.

In a sense, these populations in rural China and Africa were eating the type of diet we’ve been eating for 90% of our last 20 or so million years–a diet almost exclusively of plant foods. How do we know it was their diet that protected them, and not something else?

In the 25-year update to their original Paleo paper, the authors tried to clarify that they did not then, and do not now, propose that people adopt a particular diet just based on what our ancient ancestors ate. Dietary recommendations must be put to the test. That’s why the pioneering research of Pritikin, Ornish, and Esselstyn is so important, showing that plant-based diets can not only stop heart disease, but have been proven to reverse it in the majority of patients. Indeed, it’s the only diet that ever has–perhaps because that’s what we ate through the vast majority of our evolution.

To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video. This is just an approximation of the audio contributed by Katie Schloer.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image thanks to ToM via Flickr.

Doctor's Note

For more on the absence of Western diseases in plant-based rural populations, see for example:

For more on “paleo” and low carb diets, see:

What about the keto diet? I recently did a 7-video series on that. Check it out here.

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

198 responses to “Flashback Friday: The Problem with the Paleo Diet Argument

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  1. “For most of human evolution, cholesterol may have been virtually absent from the diet. No bacon, butter, trans fats, and massive amounts of fiber, which pulls cholesterol from the body.” (transcript).

    I was unaware fiber pulls cholesterol from the body. Now that I am, I am wondering whether the massive quantities of fiber I am consuming (~50 g)., in conjunction with my advanced age (78), could be responsible for my chronic “brown outs.” Am thinking I will keep the fiber intake and increase the cholesterol intake (egg a day) and hope for the best.

    1. I think I know what a brown out is. Look into soluble and insoluble fiber. If your stool is too loose you need something like Metamucil which I believe is soluble fiber. It’s a natural treatment, not a drug, and made of psyllium husk; it absorbs the excess fluid to firm things up. Retired RN.

    2. According to Dr. Greger, estimated fiber intake for our prehistoric cousins was well over 100g daily. At 50g daily, you are breaking no laws of Nature.

  2. “We’ve been evolving for 25 million years since our common great ape ancestor, during which time our nutrient requirements and digestive physiology were set down, and therefore probably little affected by our hunter-gatherer days at the tail end.”

    I am NOT advocating for a meaty diet but the above statement doesn’t make sense to me considering that there is good evidence of permanent genetic change in the time span of a single generation or two.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091120091959.htm
    Brain disease ‘resistance gene’ evolves in Papua New Guinea community; could offer insights into CJD
    Date: November 21, 2009
    Source: Medical Research Council (UK)
    Summary: A community in Papua New Guinea that suffered a major epidemic of a CJD-like fatal brain disease called kuru has developed strong genetic resistance to the disease, according to new research by scientists in the UK.

    1. Your example refers to an adaptation to a viral pathogen in a small isolated breeding population. Disease resistance is one thing but complete dietary adaptation is another. It doesn’t mean that the Papua New Guinea community is fully adapted to eating human brains and flesh for example, merely that it can tolerate.a specific pathogen.

  3. The short life spans mentioned by Dr. Greger don’t allow for menopause. If our ancestors had lived the short life spans he and other scientists like to tout, menopause would not have developed. When you eat a diet with enough collagen in it from natural sources, you don’t age much. If you dramatically increase your collagen intake after a life of not consuming it at all, what happens is your body begins to grow younger and repair itself. This cannot happen on a strictly plant based diet.

    In the wild, no animal is exclusively a vegetarian because they cannot avoid eating insects. Deer and other herbivores are known to eat meat when such a meal presents itself.

    Then there is the other elephant in the room and that is this: every animal except man eats its own shit. Every non domestic animal but man leads a much healthier life than does man, currently the sickest species ever to breath air on planet earth. All animals but man look young well into old age. But with the addition of massive amounts of collagen our aging slows down too. The best and most powerful collagen sources are animal based. Nothing promotes healing better and faster than a vegetarian diet with a lot of collagen.

    Dr. Greger completely overlooked the Inuit, many of whom still exist on a 100% carnivorous diet and live as long as anyone else.

    The idea of early man only living short lives is a myth that Dr. Greger has yet to get his head around. Most of the skeletal remains found in caves were those of people who were sick or murdered. They are not representative of the general population. Caves in most cases were likely used as hospitals. Where else would they care for injured or sick people that could be so well protected?

    Most of the population was nomadic. Caves don’t travel well. Our ancestors were for the most part, not cavemen.

    1. The Inuits absolutely don’t live as long as everyone else. I’ll let others debunk the rest, as I’m tired of hearing about meat and collagen.

      1. When white people have to live as the Inuit do, life spans decrease. That is weather related, not diet. The western diet has essentially ruined the health of Canada’s First Nations.

        As for collagen, before takin it I needed crutches to get around and without them, I hopped on one leg because I needed a hip replacement due to necrosis of the hip.

        Since taking collagen, the pain has disappeared, I was able to give up my crutches altogether. My last MRI in August showed my hip was healing. Previous to that, one doctor was stunned that I could still walk with my hip in the condition it was in and it was her that booked me for the hip replacement. I’ve needed it since 2013 and was in constant pain until I started taking the collagen.

        Still I had the replacement scheduled for October. But by October I was walking 3-4 miles a day pain free. So I postponed the surgery. In the meantime my eyesight improved to the point where I no longer need glasses for anything but reading street signs when I’m driving. Yesterday I was at the gym and without thinking, started doing 70 lb leg presses. I didn’t realize what I’d done until I was finished and on my way home. It’s been years since I could do that.

        My fingernails which used to split lengthways are perfect for the first time since I was 10 years old. I heal much faster than I ever have.

        There were no other changes too but in all that time the only dietary change was the addition of collagen. I’ve since read articles describing how collagen is being used for healing wounds after surgery. By all accounts it works pretty well, so I don’t know what your beefs are with collagen.

        The collagen I take is in pill form, in powder form from Costco. It’s called Organika. I also enhanced it by making bone broth and I add that to every soup I make. I have soup every day. Vegetable soup that is with bone broth. Tastes great. I add moose to it now and then.

        1. @John Newell, there’s so many possible reasons for your good fortune I would get bored trying to list them all! I took a good quality collagen for many months and it did nothing at all except lighten my wallet and raise my IGF-1 into the danger/increased cancer risk zone.

          1. Taking collagen does not have to lighten anyone’s wallet. Make bone broth soup the same as I do.

            I won’t be bored if you list the reasons why collagen is not the reason for my improvement. I should add that at first, when I skipped a day of collagen, I was either on crutches, limping and in serious pain by the next day.

            Just because you felt nothing does not mean it was not working. Your body starts using food elements where it knows they are needed first, not necessarily where you think they are needed. So you are wrong if you think your money was wasted.

            Collagen is food and is in every cell in your body. At age 25 our bodies slow down collagen production. As that happens our mitochondria slowly deflate like a balloon that’s losing air. The only way to re-inflate them is to consume collagen.

            I don’t take maintenance doses of bone broth, I ingest a lot of it. Our ancestors would have done the same thing. They ate the entire carcasses not just the meat as we do. They got a far more nutrition from an animal than anyone who isn’t an uncontacted aboriginal does today. We can measure the impact of our modern diet by studying the aboriginals in Australia, South America and the Inuit who still eat traditional foods, then compare them with their brethren who consume western diets. The difference could be called genocide against those First Nations.

            We humans today, even people who are on perfect plant based diets get nowhere near the nutrition our ancestors got. A look at their skeletons shows how physically superior they were to the best of us sickly moderns. A completely vegetarian diet will never be the be all and end all of the modern diet. If it were, our colons would be completely different than they are.

            I have read studies about collagen and the potential dangers.

            Those studies never reveal the sort of shape their test subjects were in. It’s the same thing as when they use mice, rats or pigs for studies involving excretion and so on. Their systems are nowhere near a match for our systems. Consequently the work being done on human digestive tracts is rudimentary at best and generally full of errors. You cannot expect accurate results from scientists who themselves are chronically constipated and don’t know enough to understand that.

            What you don’t mention about your issues is how much of what you eat in the way of vegetables, grain or dairy. Those things all matter.

            1. It was my boredom not yours I was concerned with. People with strong ideas about their diets (most people including me) almost never change not matter what anyone says or what they read. Sometimes they will change if they feel their life may be in danger….that’s what got me to change (pre-diabetes and gnarly family history).

              Your body does not know or care where you got the protein. By the time it hits your blood stream it has been broken down into its constituent amino acids. https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/42713/how-does-protein-enter-bloodstream. You just need minimum amounts of each amino for the specific task at hand. You could get those from meat, whey protein powder, pea protein powder, or beans or whatever, so long as you get enough

              Excess protein tends to increase IGF-1. If that hormone is too low, you get immune dysfunction, bone loss, risk of diabetes, and lots of other nasty, degenerative things can happen. If too high, you run increased risk of many different cancers. People need different amounts of protein at different times and perhaps you were just a bit too low and the collagen bumped it up. Maybe you had a chronic, low grade infection that was eroding joints and causing systemic inflammation and the protein bump boosted your immune system enough to clear the infection so you could start to heal. Or something else boosted your immunity. Or suppressed it for awhile and then whatever was suppressing it “went away” and allowed your immunity to come back to full function.

              Plenty more but you can noodle around with a search engine and come up with it, some plausible, some pretty far out.

                1. Interesting! Have you tried substituting, making sure that the substitute contains enough of the aminos that are highest in the collagen? That would be an “fun” N=1 experiment to try. Then again, collagen doesn’t cost much compared to some other protein sources so what the heck, carrying on as you are is a grand option

                  1. I do a lot of other things besides think about health. I do what works for me in a hurry. I’m no scientist. Most of you on this site know more about the nuts and bolts of the ingredients than I do but seem to understand a lot less about how it all works in the end.

                    For instance I see a lot of blabbering about rice. Why would anyone in their right mind eat that crap with all the other choices their are? That’s like eating concrete. Even if it’s brown rice. Canadian wild rice is a much better and safer alternative. That is what I eat. American wild rice also has the arsenic problem because it’s sprayed. So eating arsenic voluntarily makes me wonder why any of you are even on this site. It’s like you are all learning absolutely nothing and are busy educating, then analyzing how to kill yourselves one ingredient at a time.

                    The other thing I’m seeing is me telling you how I’ve cured myself of various things (and a lot more I haven’t gotten to yet) but I don’t see any of you geniuses tell me how you did anything but suffer and moan.

                    Before I started my health restoration research I was dying. That was back in 1979. I was 29. Now I’m 70 and in better shape than I was then. I must be doing something right. The people who I’ve helped along the way are all alive. Those of my friends who ignored me are all dead. The dead ones were all healthier and stronger than me to begin with.

                    If you try what I just suggested to Laurence, you will all have the same results.

                    As for trying the different things, I’ve tried everything over the years and absolutely nothing worked well in terms of rapid healing until I tried using the Organika collagen. Then the bone broth accelerated it. Now it’s exciting to wake up in the morning to find out what else has gotten better.

                    One other thing that happened was that I dropped a sheet of masonite on my toe. It was like a guillotine and nearly cut my big toe off just behind the nail. I soon lost the nail but my toe stayed on. I met a guy at Home Depot who had done the same thing. I asked him how long it took for his toenail to grow back. He said a year. He was also an Olympic athlete. My toe nail also grew back but it took five years. One side only grew half back and did not adhere to the nail bed. When I started taking collagen, it finished the healing process. Now you can hardly tell where it happened, and then only if I pointed it out. Every step I took from 2012 until 2019 was painful until I started taking collagen. Then it healed.

                    My eyesight improved two weeks ago. Now I don’t need glasses around the house any more except for TV. I can drive without glasses but still need them to read street signs at a distance.

                    I have still not managed to completely overcome my food addictions but they are much reduced. Having chocolate for instance slows healing. Same with grain. I did totally eliminate dairy from my diet.

                    Now I’ve started weight training to put back the muscle mass I’ve lost while being stuck at my computer writing my health books.

                    What do I eat?

                    Salads and soup.

                    Here is a typical ingredient list:

                    Salads are: cabbage sliced and diced, zucchini, cucumber, watercress, radishes including greens, carrots, blueberries or raspberries, black currents, pomegranate, sprouts, avocado, celery, tahini sauce, pepper sauce now and then, ginger, turmeric, collagen, hemp hearts, chia, lemon. All of it is cut small to get more in the bowl and to make it easier to toss. Not all the berries are there at once.

                    Soups are: water, bone broth, any and many of the above vegetables, spices and seeds, squash of various sorts, wild rice but cucumber is not in my soup, moose meat or venison when available. Right now I have lots. Turkey and chicken fill in when game is unavailable.

                    These meals take a little more than half an hour to make and clean up including thawing out the frozen meat which I dump in the pot to thaw a bit so I can chop it up. Game is very chewy compared to domestic meat and has no fat. Domestic meat is saturated with fat you can’t see. Even the heart of a cow is like a sponge full of fat. If you eat this stuff and don’t exercise, your heart is much worse. Do I have evidence to support that? Yes I do. As a former tropical fish food manufacturer, I have dissected and chopped up and liquified more hearts than any surgeon on earth. I know intimately what hearts are composed of and why they fail. There are some things doctors cannot know about hearts because they don’t get to liquify them in bulk like I did.

                    SInce I kept and bred virtually every type of tropical fish known to the hobby and some that still aren’t, I know fish nutrition like no one else on the planet. Tropical fish and people have almost identical nutritional needs. What differs is how we get that nutrition. So it doesn’t matter whether you are a guppy, a pirhana, a lion or an elephant, we all need the same stuff in the end. That also means we have to excrete the waste in a timely fashion. If you don’t your health declines.

                    Humans are the sickest species there has ever been on earth and that has happened since we started consuming grain and dairy.

                    1. Funny, my eyesight improved on a vegan diet, to the point where my driver’s license now says I do not need glasses (I have needed them since 4th grade, 1959 or 1960 when I first got them).

                      The arsenic in rice is a world wide problem not just the US though Lundberg’s is almost certainly the lowest and publishes independent lab test data on their site. Rice is not like concrete. All those billions of Asians and can’t be wrong. Their disease increase has come about due to increased frying and meat and sugar consumption, in short, a drift towards the typical modern Western diet

                    2. Why do you think Asians more than any other people on earth needed to develop all of those cures?

                      Can you think of any other constant in the Asian diet that would develop constipation like rice does. You can kill people and animals with rice. I killed by own dog by mistake by giving him too much rice.

                      Rice soup is widely known for curing constipation. It doesn’t need to be in soup to have that effect.

                      Rice is well known for causing constipation. From constipation comes a load of degenerative diseases. Don’t think for a minute that the Chinese aren’t well acquainted with constipation.

                    3. For most people, brown rice is fine. But not for everyone and besides that, there is still gluten in brown rice. You know what the English word is for the Latin word gluten right? GLUE.

                      Among other things, gluten changes the viscosity of our secreted mucus. That leads to constipation. Even if you don’t suffer full blown constipation, partial blockage of your tight junctions are still blockages and every single one of them makes a difference.

                    4. John N, You’ve been pushing this wild theory of ours about grains and gluten / glue for a long time. I am a counterexample. I eat 6-8 servings of whole grains every day including on different days, mostly brown rice, black rice, kasha, oat groats, some whole wheat, etc. and I have no problems whatsoever with my GI tract. In fact, it’s never been better, my previous decades long problems a memory.

                      But I also get 2-4 servings of beans each day including tempeh and soymilk, lots of nuts/seeds, several servings of starchy vegetables (in particular sweet or purple potatoes) as well as lots of non-starchy vegetables and a fair amount of fruit.

                      My only minor issue had been that certain brands of whole wheat bread seemed to bother me. So I limit bread and only eat Ezekiel’s when I do eat it. I do believe some people, perhaps quite a few, have wheat sensitivity. But gluten is not a problem for most, wheat is fine for many/most and grains in general are very healthful.

                    5. Wheat and other grains are not fine if you can still catch a cold. If you can catch a cold you have more mucus in you than your body secretes. Excess mucus is a problem at some point because it’s cumulative.

                      Grain changes the viscosity of our mucus. That is fact. That is simply chemistry anyone can understand.

                      It becomes excess non-secreted mucus that becomes a debilitating body burden over time. Most elderly people are monuments to excess mucus.

                      As soon as grain mixes with your saliva, it becomes glutinous. Gluten is Latin for GLUE. Most people understand that if you bathe I your teeth and gums in sugary GLUE, there will be money spent on dental care. When a dental hygienist is scraping away at your teeth, that is grain residues after bacteria has chowed down on it. Left alone it soon develops into gingivitis.

                      What that means is fermentation. A witches brew in your mouth that is impossible without grain and/or dairy residues being present and festering.

                      Our Paleo ancestors had no grain, no dairy, no sugar, no dental issues because they had no fermentation going on in their mouths.

                      That in turn means they had no heart disease and none of the 55 degenerative diseases caused by or linked to dairy, grain and sugar consumption.

                      Why are you even arguing about this? Anyone can look this stuff up on Wikipedia.

                      Look at the food timeline.

                      One thing that has to be understood that is not obvious. Not every culture had grain at the same time. The Orient had grain 120,000 years ago. South Africa 105,000 years ago. Not rice though, hemp and something else I forget just now in Asia and millet and fonio in Africa. So no gluten/glue.

                      With rice came glue.

                      The Middle East and Europe had grain 14,500 years ago. But again not glue bearing grains. They came later.

                      The Egyptians ate grain. Their teeth were horrific.

                      But when you’re talking about who got grain when, you can’t go into all the anomalies or you’d forget your topic by the end of it. So you have to generalize. Mr. Fumblefingers has a lot of trouble with that but too bad.

                      I’m not here to write a book. I’m merely trying to pass on what has worked for me and many others I’ve helped.

                      I really don’t care about all the studies that promote grain consumption. I look at who paid for the studies, who is doing the studies and what they understand about what they were doing. Not much.

                      You don’t have to be scientist or a gastroenterologist to figure out that most if not all of the people doing the research eat grain and dairy. As such, they are all irretrievably biased and systematically constipated as a result.

                      They do experiments on animals that may be comparable but are not human. So the conclusions can never be accurate because the animals are never constipated. That makes a huge difference when you are studying transition times, mucosal interactions, neural communications, absorption factors and on and on.

                      My work had been to figure out what conditions had to have been, what foods we ate and how humans 250,000 years ago processed their food and how they took a dump.

                      Taking a dump is the key to understanding. Constipation would have been fatal then. Foods were green mostly with a little meat. NO grain; so pasty shit 100% of the time. So no hemorrhoids. THAT is natural. A dump per meal is also natural.

                      If you are eating properly, anything else is impossible.

                      Don’t forget, water was what they drank, nothing else.

                      You don’t have a single organ our ancestors didn’t have 315,000 years ago. Yes we have changed a bit since then but not enough to consume pseudo-foods – grain and dairy that no other animal on earth can do safely without evolutionary modifications we don’t have.

                      So ALL of science is against us eating those things with impunity.

                      That is not to say I don’t recognize the benefits. But so far, the benefits on a personal level aren’t worth the consequences.

                      The trouble is, most people including you lot, don’t seem to have any knowledge about exactly what those consequences are.

                      That is due to centuries of misunderstanding and smart marketing.

                      The difference between me and you is that I’m mostly deaf as a direct result of this disinformation.

                      Being deaf, and injured I tend not to believe what the authorities say.

                      So I went my own way and learned with no preconceived beliefs.

                      What I learned about grain is completely different than what science says. My experience does not indicate that science is in any way truthful about grain and the threat it represents.

                      Keep in mind that I’m addicted to grain as much as anyone. My research has taken as long as it has and my health was seriously impacted because of it.

                      As such I see grain marketing as a criminal enterprise in some respects. I’m right too.

                    6. John N,

                      >>>Wheat and other grains are not fine if you can still catch a cold. If you can catch a cold you have more mucus in you than your body secretes.
                      Excess mucus is a problem at some point because it’s cumulative.

                      I have not caught a cold since 2013.

                      Dental/gum problems: have also not had a cavity since my teen years and have never had periodontal disease. Sugar is bad for teeth, that I grant.
                      Improper hygiene and poor diet lead to dental and gum disease. If you do not get rid of the sugar in your mouth, then of course you will suffer the consequences from feeding destructive oral bacteria. Everyone knows that.

                      There are simply too many unsupported or half-baked assumptions in your long note to bother addressing them all, and besides several people like Tom and I have debated this with you in the past. Your arguments have not changed and have not gotten any better. . Your mucus theory is not new and has been debunked many times. Your theory about grains and constipation is no better.

                      By the way, in another note, you talked about the fantastical idea of “re-inflating mitochondria” with collagen. Where on earth did you get that idea? Mitochondria have a gell-like matrix with lots of protein (more than 500 types) but they do not deflate or get reinflated by ingesting collagen. Mitochondria get damaged with age from ROS or DNA mutations, leading to dysfunction and is a major cause of aging and sarcopenia. The best approach to keeping them happy is to eat an anti-inflammatory diet and to exercise, especially aerobic exercise. Exercise can not only help prevent dysfunction but also can increase the number of mitochondria in skeletal muscle (especially high intensity interval training, it seems).
                      Interestingly, in the skin, dysfunctional mitochondria upregulates interstitial collagenase, which **degrades collagen**. Injecting collagen can have a cosmetic effect but it does not deal with any underlying mitochondrial dysfunction.

                      Good luck with your diet. I hope it works well for you, but it certainly is not a diet I would follow.

                    7. Most people catch colds in North America. People who do not catch colds are rare.

                      You probably don’t eat excessive amounts of flour products. Most people do. All grocery stores in North America have big bakery sections and big pharmacies nearby. I wonder why that is?

                      Most people from the 50s and 60s have bad teeth missing teeth or no teeth. Or they are dead. Most of them are dead of heart attacks due to heart disease initiated by gum disease initiated by consuming grain. There are lots of fake smiles out there. I wonder where all those teeth went.

                      Proper hygiene is impossible if you consume too much grain. What’s worse is if you work a job where dental hygiene is not possible, and you eat bread, guess what happens? Your damned teeth rot out fall out or get yanked out.

                      My half-baked mucus theories evolved as a result of talking to microbiologists.

                      You might be surprised at how primitive that field still is. If you have access to something more modern than I do, please share. Don’t cast aspersions without backing them up. If you can’t then with draw your comments.

                      I don’t care how harsh your comments are, I care more about learning what works. Sometimes the only way to get the truth out of people is to make incorrect statements they can’t tolerate and the truth comes out. Your remarks about collagen might be in that direction. I’ll check it out.

                      You have a high regard for science. I do too, but only when I’m satisfied it’s correct.

                      I’ve seen lots of science about grain that makes no sense to me and fails to follow the rules of physics and chemistry. I have yet to see any rebuttals to any of that.

                      Here’s the recipe for Wheatpaste:

                      https://www.instructables.com/id/Wheatpaste/

                      Find me something that will convince me that eating that muck will cure constipation.

                      Then tell me how your colon deals with it. I’d like to know.

                    8. So that clears that eyesight thing up somewhat. But I was on a vegetarian diet long before I started taking collagen.

                  1. Pain. Collagen is a nutrient that has to be constantly replenished or you lose it. I’ve been taking it for a while now so I can go days without pain but if I stop for too long the pain and the crutches are back.

            2. Wow! I have never eaten meat of any kind in my life, nor used collagen in my life nor bone meal. I am completely vegan, no oil, almost no salt, very little sugar, usually in the form of honey. I am two months from 73 years old. I walk a couple of very hilly miles every day, I garden and cut and split my own firewood to heat my home, about 4 or more cords a year. I raise a large percentage of my own food in my own garden. I have some 25 fruit trees that I prune and care for. I take no medicines and I have perfect bone health with no joint pain at all. And you say I need collagen?? What for? I noticed a real problem when I went on Dr. Furman’s diet with no grains. Within two months I was not able to split wood and had pain in all of my joints. I went back on oatmeal and other whole grains and within two months my joints were cured. I also have never had a cavity and have all of my own teeth. I see my dentist very regularly, once every decade. My experience certainly does not support your claims. Nor, I believe, does the science. I am an optometrist and have never seen a collagen deficiency disease that affected eyesight.

          1. That sounds like paleo/low carb quackery to me since saturated fat is clearly much more of a health problem than PUFAs but there is really no need for any cooking fats/oils in our diet.

            Oddly though I see that paleo diet researchers actually add PUFAs to their experimental low paleo diet eg

            ‘The (paleo) diet was based on lean meat, fish, eggs, vegetables, fruits, berries and nuts. Additional fat sources were avocado and oils (rapeseed and olive oil) used in food preparation and dressing.’
            https://www.nature.com/articles/ejcn2013290

            What do professional scientists/researchers who promote paleo diets know about PUFAs that paleo ‘experts’ on the internet don’t? What sort of results would they get if they didn’t include PUFA and MUFA oils in their supposedly paleo diets?

            1. Further rubbish is your assertion that our paleo ancestors didn’t eat grains. This may be an article of faith in the paleo diet religion but it is completely untrue. I’ve lost track of the number of times and the number of studies I’ve posted over the last year or so, in response to your repeated assertions, showing that our ancestors ate grains. You didn’t even know that grains are just grass seeds but you apparently ‘know’ that our ancestors didn’t eat them

              Yet here you are once again trying to pass off an egregious falsehood as a fact. You are clearly not someone who lets facts get in the way of his opinions.

                1. John

                  The definition of a grain is any small hard seed…………….. which in a dietary context is mainly grass seeds. Also, some grains do not contain gluten eg rice, sorghum, maize and millet. Some so-called pseudograins like quinoa and buckwheat also do not contain gluten.

                  The fact that you have your own peculiar personal definition is irrelevant to the rest of us. We pretty naturally assume that everybody here is communicating in English and words mean more or less what dictionaries say they mean. It gets immensely confusing when you post here in some secret language of your own devising.

              1. Okay then. Explain the perfect teeth before grain and the dental wreckage afterwards.

                Tell us why rodents are the only animals that can eat grain and not suffer the consequences.

                If we evolved to eat grain with impunity, why does grain consumption destroy teeth now but not before grain consumption?

                1. John

                  Your ‘facts’ aren’t actually facts. People were eating grains in the paleolithic long before farming was invented. So the simple fact of grain consumption can’t explain the alleged difference in dental health

                  Paleolithic dental health was by-and-large superior to that of farming populations but both ate grains. The by-and-large is interesting though. Old studies certainly found that paleolithic people had better dental health. More recent studies though have found no difference in the dental health of a number of farming populations in Europe and Asia and previous hunter gatherer populations in the same areas. In fact, I understand that one study even found that a rice farming population in Asia actually had better health than its predecessor hunter gatherer population.

                  Some researchers have speculated that the difference could be processing/cooking methods eg orridge type foods can be sticky, lodge in the teeth and result in bacterial fermentation this leading to dental caries.

                  https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274374037_Dental_Health_and_the_Transition_to_Agriculture_in_Prehistoric_Ukraine_A_Study_of_Dental_Caries/link/5aa892fbaca2726f41b1737a/download

                  Your other statement that ‘rodents are the only animals that can eat grain and not suffer the consequences.’ is also not a fact You might just as well have written ‘tell us why the sky is green with day-glo orange stripes’.

                  Plenty of animals eat grains – from birds to baboons – with no known adverse consequences. Huge numbers of grazing animals from bison to the (woolly) rhinoceros do and would have consumed grains (in season) both now and throughout prehistory.

                  if your argument was that very high consumption of cooked grains is cariogenic (unless strict dental hygiene is practised). i might be inclined to agree with you but simply arguing that grain consumption in and of itself causes caries is simply not in accordance with the known facts.

            2. Food intolerance and the irritable bowel syndrome. FREE R Nanda, R James, H Smith, C R Dudley, D P Jewell Author affiliations Abstract Two hundred patients (156 women) with the irritable bowel syndrome were treated with dietary exclusion for three weeks. Of the 189 who completed this study, 91 (48.2%) showed symptomatic improvement. Subsequent challenge with individual foods showed that 73 of these 91 responders were able to identify one or more food intolerances and 72 remained well on a modified diet during the follow up period (mean (SD), 14.7 (7.98) months). Of the 98 patients who showed no symptomatic improvement after three weeks of strict exclusion only three were symptomatically well at follow up (mean (SD), 12.48 (8.09 months). There was no close correlation between response and symptom complex. There was a wide range of food intolerance. The majority (50%) identified two to five foods which upset them (range 1-14). The foods most commonly incriminated were dairy products (40.7%) and grains (39.4%).

              http://dx.doi.org/10.1136/gut.30.8.1099

          2. It is important to distinguish PUFAs from extracted oils, which many but not all acknowledge as problematic, from very healthful PUFAs (and MUFAs) in whole foods like nuts, seeds. It’s also important to consider the omega 6 : omega 3 ratio. Many get too much omega 6 relative to omega 3 (omega 6 FAs have been unfairly maligned as inherently unhealthful).

      2. Here’s an overview for those interested in facts.

        https://www.forksoverknives.com/extreme-nutrition-the-diet-of-eskimos/#gs.skc6fd

        “Claims that Eskimos were free of heart (artery) disease are untrue. A thorough review of the evidence concludes that “Eskimos have a similar prevalence of CAD (coronary artery disease) as non-Eskimo populations, they have excessive mortality due to cerebrovascular strokes, their overall mortality is twice as high as that of non-Eskimo populations, and their life expectancy is approximately 10 years shorter than the Danish population.”

        1. That’s true. But what is also true is that they now are eating a Westernized diet. Those results were obtained in Australia too with their Aboriginals. They also figured out how long it took to wreck those people. Not long. The Aboriginals were doing fine for 60,000 years until Europeans arrived and in 200 years, those Aboriginals who adapted to European foods were ruined in every way imaginable.

          The Inuit were doing fine for 13,000 years until the 1930s in Canada. Their health has been in free fall ever since. They have rebounded due to modern medicine that does them no favours for many other reasons.

          The normal life spans for those people when the harsh environment can be deducted and their traditional food available, live as long as anyone else.

          1. >>> But what is also true is that they now are eating a Westernized diet.
            Quite right. And living in overall poor conditions and all the ills that begets. As I vaguely recall, the types of disease they were prone to shifted with the diet and living conditions shift, e.g, type of cancer, stroke, etc. But my memory is vague on the details.

            1. The list the same one for every one who eats a Western Diet more than occasionally: tooth decay, gum disease, periodontitis, respiratory infections, sinus problems, constipation, diabetes Type 2, heart disease, cardiovascular problems. Then of course they have massive drug and alcohol problems because in the wilderness, if you aren’t hunting, fishing, repairing your gear you have nothing at all to do and you are bored out of your skull. So lots of mental issues that lead to jail time.

              None of this is their fault. We Canadians put them on Reservations that are virtually uninhabitable. Most of Canada is uninhabitable. We accept immigrants at the cost of giving up farmland we will someday need for food. Less than 5% of Canada can be farmed and the First Nations people have practically none of it. You cannot imagine how hostile the land really is until you walk it and try and imagine what the hell you would do if you had to live on it, starting with nothing as they had to have done thousands of years ago. It’s either sheets of solid granite or muskeg. That is floating land that looks solid but is not. If you fall through, that could be the end of you because as you pass through the hole seals up behind you. It’s loaded with black flies and mosquitoes.

              1. Yes, I did – what part of a clear contradiction s’doing fine’ and clear signs of heart disease in young Eskimos from 500 hundred years ago, don’t you understand?

                The fact that the authors SPECULATED that smoke from heating/cooking fires could have caused heart disease is neither here nor there.

                They clearly weren’t doing fine before the arrival of the Western diet were they?

        2. Interesting. But while I have found that the McDougall diet works for many, it can be harmful to some.
          As the Science Daily article stated the Inuit have genetically lower fasting insulin. This is most likely also true in many groups that historically eat low carb diets. Putting these people on a high grain, carb, diet just causes them to develop type 2 diabetes. They just cannot make enough insulin to cover these types of carbs.

      3. Life span of Inuit.

        There is nothing unusual about the woman’s age in the following article, just that she is the last of a group of Inuit that gathered bones to be rendered to make ammunition with. She is far from the only person of that age among her people.

        The bone collector: The untold story of one Inuk elder’s WW II efforts

        At age 99, Attagutsiak, who now lives in Arctic Bay, can still vividly recall how she and other Inuit felt when they heard from the local Catholic priest about the Second World War.

        Olivia Stefanovich; CBC News; January 26, 2020

    2. John Newell,

      >>> When you eat a diet with enough collagen in it from natural sources, you don’t age much. If you dramatically increase your collagen intake after a life of not consuming it at all, what happens is your body begins to grow younger and repair itself.

      How about presenting some established evidence for this claim?

      Inuit also have generic adaptions, helping to compensate for their high fat diets.

      https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/09/150917160034.htm

      “Researchers have found unique genetic mutations in the Inuit genome that make them more adapted to cold as well as a diet high in omega-3 fatty acids, with the side effect of shorter height. This is the first evidence human populations have adapted to particular diets and differ in their physiological response. While a fish oil diet may be healthful for Inuit, this may not be true for other populations.”.

      “Those genetic mutations, found in nearly 100 percent of the Inuit, are found in a mere 2 percent of Europeans and 15 percent of Han Chinese, which means they would synthesize omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids differently from the Inuit.”

      “The mutations seem to be at least 20,000 years old, and may have helped many groups of humans adapt to high-meat, high-fat, hunter-gatherer diets from large land and marine mammals high in certain types of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acid”

      As a general comment, I wish Dr. Greger would pay more attention to genetic adaptions of various populations to diet and environment. It might help clear up various confusions that come up often in these discussions.

      1. 言語学者 (Gengo-Gakusha) Great answer!

        As to my collagen claims, I can only use myself as the basis for my claims. So they are entirely anecdotal and potentially subject to the genetic variations you cited.

        However as you may know, every cell in our body contains mitochondria. All mitochondria are like microscopic balloons full of – guess what? Collagen! Mitochondria and collagen are exactly the same for all animals on earth. So you know we are not a species from another planet.

        Any amount of reading about collagen soon reveals that our bodies, including yours, slows collagen production at age 25 and it tapers off until we are making none. The direct result of that is that we start to shrink just like a balloon. Nature repeats itself in endless ways. No need to be a rocket scientist so far right?

        So it doesn’t take a genius to figure that if you put collagen, any collagen back in those shrinking mitochondria, we re-inflate right? There is lots of science out there that states that does happen.

        The re-inflation process when it occurs on you face makes you look more youthful.

        When it happens in your eyes, you see better as I am doing right now and have been for about a month.

        It is well known that collagen is good for joints. How it gets there I can’t say but my hip tells me I have gone from painful hops and three sets of crutches less than a year ago to no crutches, no hopping and no pain with no other changes to my diet or my lifestyle.

        As I mentioned in a different post, yesterday I leg-pressed 70 pounds without even a warm up. No damage evident today. I returned a few minutes ago from a one mile walk. I would have done at least 3 miles but it’s so cold out I didn’t want my face to get frostbitten. It hurts to be outside right now.

        Also as I mentioned, wild animals don’t appear to age until almost the very end of their lives. Once an animal slows down, it is prey. They do not succumb to old age. So most do not live out their potential and natural span of years. In a protected environment, everything lives longer. Same with people. As we became better able to protect ourselves, the longer we lived. In zoos, wolves live to be 15 to 20 years old. That is their life spans. In the wild they last about four years or so. So most of them die prematurely. That’s the same way with any animal and us too.

        That was right up until we started consuming grain and dairy. You know what that means? We had introduced a new population limiter from which we not only no protection, we also had no idea what it was.

        We did not know what it was until I said what it was: grain and dairy back in the 1980s. On the other hand, Professor Arnold Ehret was saying that in 1922 and earlier. He was world famous in his day and achieved many feats of endurance and cures that then modern medicine wanted no part of. They couldn’t accept what he said, couldn’t prove it wasn’t true and were very happy when he died after a fall. He was bad for business and was making them all look like charlatans.

        I know you all disagree with the grain but that’s only because you have so far not thought it through as I have over a period of years. What grain does once in the body is both wonderful and a disaster at the same time.

        What grain and dairy both do in the body is ferment. Not only do they ferment; they also slow down natural food-eaten transition times from normal and natural 12 to 18 hours to non-normal and unnatural 24 hours to anywhere up to a number of weeks. No other animal or plant or even combustion engine on the planet does this.

        The slow down directly affects meat consumption because meat is fibreless. Any slow-down of meat digestion is dangerous. Guess where colorectal cancer comes from? I’ve as good as given you a recipe.

        Our ancestors before grain consumption came along and wrecked us, lived long healthy lives if we reached adulthood. Menstruation proves the lifespan, predation proves the health because without fitness, you cannot survive predation or accidents in a wild environment. Without the lifespan, menstruation would be irrelevant.

        Here in Canada we used to have a TV show called Mantracker. That was a reality show where very fit athletes from various walks of life including professional sports and even the police and armed forces. They were the prey. They had 36 hours to travel 40 kilometers through rough country to a destination without being caught. The prey had a map to follow to get to the destination. Mantracker (Terry Grant) had nothing but his wits and his horse. The prey were on foot. Mantracker usually caught the prey. By the time he did, the prey were flat out exhausted. They didn’t even have to stop and hunt for food. Most of the time Grant didn’t bother chasing his prey on foot through dense bush as he would have done if it were real. Very few to none would have escaped had he done that.

        The point is, this show clearly showed the type of damage a person could sustain in very short order in rough country when fleeing a predator. None of the contestants were fit enough to make a living from the land with what they had or what they were capable of. These were athletes and not one could live for three days as our ancestors lived their lives.

        For them to do that they had to be doing things we no longer do.

        One of those things is collagen consumption.

        The other is consumption of their own fecal matter.

        We are the only species (other than Koreans and Chinese that I’m aware of) that does not do that.

        Human fecal matter before grain and dairy consumption was edible and a powerful source of predigested pure, non-toxic nutrients available in no other way and easy to come by. After grain and dairy consumption started it became too foul to contemplate. I’ve done some research on this and it makes a lot of sense.

        The difference in the chemical make-up of our stools is very easy for anyone to ascertain. All you have to do is get grain and dairy out of your diet for a while and reduce your meat intake to not more than 3 ounces a week and your feces lose their odour.

        Not only that, you have no more snot, so no picking your nose. No sinus infections because there is no extra mucus. No farts because there is no fermentation. And lots more.

        Having done all that is how I can make claims that are unsubstantiated by science.

        It’s also how I can say this: Prove me wrong.

        The bottom line is that you can’t. Because if I wasn’t right, none of our ancestors would have survived long enough to ruin us, their descendants.

        You can’t run fast enough with a sinus infection. There were no colds and no degenerative diseases that weren’t caused by insect invasions or from noxious plants and so on. To survive, Homo Sapiens had to be as fit as any other wild animal. We are not accidental event. But as we are now, we’re a joke.

        1. The other is consumption of their own fecal matter.

          We are the only species (other than Koreans and Chinese that I’m aware of) that does not do that.
          —————————————————————————————–
          Pretty sure eating shit is a common practice here in the U.S. They even sell it in stores I think. The product is called Turd-ucken.

      2. Gengo, thank you for posting the Science Daily article on Inuit polymorphisms. I think that strengthens Dr, Longo’s advice to eat ancestral foods. Patients are always surprised when I ask about their ancestry. But I have found in many cases it allows me to pinpoint the source of their health issues, It allows me to better choose what lab testing needs to get done.

        1. Ceb, Yes, I’ve read that too.
          For those interested, here’s an overview: https://nutritionstudies.org/is-the-ketogenic-diet-natural-for-humans/

          “Here’s the real kicker: the reason why the Inuit don’t go into ketosis as readily as other ethnic groups is the high prevalence of a deleterious mutation in the CPT1A gene.[14] This mutation permitted adaptation to a high fat, low carbohydrate diet in the sense that those carrying the gene could survive to reproductive age while eating a diet entirely at odds with our evolutionary history. “

          1. “Here’s the real kicker: the reason why the Inuit don’t go into ketosis as readily as other ethnic groups is the high prevalence of a deleterious mutation in the CPT1A gene.[14] This mutation permitted adaptation to a high fat, low carbohydrate diet in the sense that those carrying the gene could survive to reproductive age while eating a diet entirely at odds with our evolutionary history. “

            What does that say about the safety of fashionable modern diets that induce ketosis? If Inuit evolved to avoid ketosis on their high fat diet, doesn’t that suggest that ketosis impairs survival?

      3. Gengo

        He probably doesn’t do it for the same reasons that US dietary guidelines and eg AHA, ADA etc don’t. Even the WHO doesn’t go into much detail on these points

        Plus, when you have a policy of producing videos/blogs of very limited length – since we all have the attention span of pigeons these days – it’s difficult enough fitting in the key facts relevant to the mainstream US population let alone covering every ethnic group, every age group and every medical condition imaginable.

        It would be fascinating though, I agree.

    3. John

      You continue to make absurd statements without offering evidence that they have any factual basis whatsoever..

      Your collagen fantasy is a good example. My understanding is that dietary collagen as such isn’t employed by the human body. If we do eat collagen, our bodies simply break it down into amino acids. We can and do get the same amino acids from other sources including plant foods.

      You also wrote ‘the Inuit, many of whom still exist on a 100% carnivorous diet and live as long as anyone else’. The Inuit are notorious for having a low life expectancy.

      This is a site about nutrition facts not nutrition fantasies.

        1. Then why did you write ‘Dr. Greger completely overlooked the Inuit, many of whom still exist on a 100% carnivorous diet and live as long as anyone else.’?

          A claim that is blatantly false – now you change your tune merely to try scoring a point off me when all I was doing was echoing your own claim. You appear to be just making this stuff up as you go along, in tandem with repeating the bogus claims about collagen, bone broth, grains, and what our ancestors ate, that are found all over the internet.

          No wonder you can’t cite any evidence for your beliefs (which seem to to conveniently morph into something else whenever you want to score a debating point)..

          1. No, I just don’t feel like writing a book here. To answer to your satisfaction, that’s what it would take. That would then provoke another answer from you that would require another book. No money in it.

            1. Most of your posts here are already novella length and notable only for totally omitting scientific evidence in favour of lengthy expositions of your own opinions.

              1. Most of your posts are notable for your having achieve nothing at all that we know of for all of your knowledge. I’m a person who has done something with what I’ve learned. What have you done with your knowledge beside taking potshots?

                1. John N, The problem with your “gluten = glue, so bad for you” view is that ignores the biochemistry of digestion. Gluten is made of long strands of amino acids that form networks. In digestion, gluten protein is broken down into peptides (shorter chains of amino acids). There is no evidence I have ever come across that gluten peptides form a glue and gunk up the GI tract, which seems to be your model. It certainly has not happened to me as I know from very clear color pictures from my colonoscopies. Mixing wheat and water shows nothing of relevance. Biochemistry is generally not as simple as you seem to think it is.

                  Einstein once famously said the “everything should be made a simple as possible but no simpler”. Something to think about.

                    1. >>> Well you have not seen the photos and the real thing as I have. You are an infant by comparison.
                      Don’t quite understand. What specifically are you referring to? Btw: I am 73, not quite an infant.

                    2. I’m referring to the real life consequences of eating grain. What you see when you look in the toilet bowl.

                      The research I’ve done was inspired and based on previous work by Professor Arnold Erhet and Dr. Bernard Jensen.

                      Those two were the real grandfathers of Health Restoration. I’ve built upon what they did. That does not put me in their league by any means but regardless, Jensen’s work in particular is irrefutable and backed up by many, many photographs and descriptions. Cause and effects. I’ve duplicated much of their work on myself.

                      I’ve talked to many doctors about my work including gastroenterologists and have yet to have a single one dispute my claims about grain and dairy.

                      Here’s the thing: the health restoration process does not start if you are consuming grain and it stops if you start eating grain and were restoring your health properly without it. I’ve done this over and over during my 40 years. It works like clockwork and I’m no alien.

                      I do know and understand that people have different sensitivities, but the basic mechanics of how our bodies are supposed to function never varies unless there’s been an injury or deformation of some sort.

                      The same processes work for every plant, animal and internal combustion engine on the planet whether you are microbe or a blue whale.

                      You might not believe what I say about mucus but you would understand it completely if you were an auto mechanic because then you would understand fully about how much viscosity matters. Viscosity makes all the difference.

                      Just because you take a dump once a day does not at all mean you are not constipated. If you eat three meals and eliminate once, you are constipated whether you know it or not. You can even be as regular as a dump per meal and still be systemically constipated.

                      From what little I’ve read or inferred of what you eat, you don’t seem to eat the way most North Americans eat. If you’ve never done that, what Americans face due to their diets is almost incomprehensible. But I’ve lived it and watched my friends die while I lived. I’ve got friends who are alive because they listened me.

                      I eliminated grain (again) from my diet two years ago and feel so much better. I can breathe. I grew up on grain and dairy and spent all of that time with colds, getting over colds, catching colds or waiting for the next one. Virtually every other respiratory infection you can think of as well multiple times. My ear infection nearly killed me. Getting dairy and grain out of my life is the only reason I’m alive.

                      I’ve intentionally repeated the processes time after time to see how it worked and to see how to defeat it all without drugs. Defeating a respiratory infection can never be done with grain and/or dairy in you if you have a damaged immune system.

                      But the other factor is of course constipation. None of the science ever allows for that. So consequently the studies are conducted by constipated scientists using constipated test subjects. But guess what? The animals used for the trials are never constipated!

                      How do you arrive at conclusions that make any sense when the foundation of your experiments are always that far wrong?

                      You can’t. It’s impossible.

                      In many ways we’re talking about the same thing. We both understand the value of vegetables and probably meat as well even if you don’t eat meat.

                      Right now I’m researching the ingredients in commercially made bread. Whole wheat.

                      This not about looking up how to make bread. This is looking at each and every ingredient in a typical loaf. Side effect by side effect.

                      There are so many hidden, nasty ingredients that I cannot list them all. I can generalize but Mr Fumblefingers would foam at the mouth over that.

                      The list of FDA approved food additives would take a thick book to list.

                      There is no way you can walk into a store and buy any baked grain product and avoid the glue effect. If you cannot avoid that, you cannot avoid the ill health that eventually accumulates in your tissues.

                      Eating as I do, I’m 70 and have an athletic body. Today I shovelled several tons of snow. Can you do that?

                      I’ve researched the diets of the people who live to be over 100. Grain is never a big portion of their diet and often not in it at all.

                      Next time I’ll talk about life spans.

                    3. >>> Eating as I do, I’m 70 and have an athletic body. Today I shovelled several tons of snow. Can you do that?
                      Maybe but I am not sure how much that amounts to. Not as much snow to shovel where I live (we have had almost none this year). I do do a lot of exercise including high intensity interval training, kettlebell and weight lifting, trail running and hiking/walking with my energetic dog. My V02 max is quite high for my age (73), I jack my heart rate up to 165 routinely doing Norwegian 4 by 4 intervals (can you do that?) and it recovers quite quickly, a key indicator of heart health. My resting heart rate is 43-45. However I am on the slim side, which I have been since childhood, and this limits the amount of weight I can lift at one time.
                      But then I am after functional fitness these days. I also take no meds, my A1c is 5.1, my total chol is 124, my LDL is 74, hs-crp low, BP normal, low BMI (no fat around the waist), etc, i.e. typical biomarkers look good. I have my issues but they are not about functional fitness. But i will admit that putting on muscle mass has become more challenging over the last few years, quite common when one is over 70.

        1. That is not the worst of beef. Don’t forget Bovine Leukemia. Virtually all US cows carry the virus so it’s in all of the meat and dairy products too. Dr. Gertrude Buehring did the research. You can google her.
          Keep in mind that Mad Cow Disease could not possibly jump from cow to human.

          BLV already has.

    4. What is your source of collagen? What is your before and after report? (When I hear “Man is meant to eat vegan, look at the apes” etc., I think is BS. Man is omnivore. Closest digestive system is pig, clearly an omnivore. Man can eat almost anything, opportunistically. Whether his choices are optimum health wise-who knows for sure. I think optimism healthy eating varies tremendously from individual to individual based on varied circumstances. To generalize is stupidity. Especially considering science is heading towards understanding the dynamics of individual cells-each one of which has its own individual requirements in a given moment.

      I am now 100% with deteriorating health: osteoporosis, scoliosis, hypo thyroid, sinus stuff, asthma, worsening emphysema weight loss, muscle loss. I have been vegan for 40 years with some lapses and now don’t wish to support the holocaust against animals.

      However, I’m willing to entertain other possibilities. I’m not interested in theories, or pulling isolated “nutrition facts” that support a priori beliefs. If you have practical suggestions, please respond. Thanks

      1. Greger doesn’t promote so-called vegan diets. He has been pointing out for years that most ‘vegan’ and ‘vegetarian’ diets are unhealthy. The fact is that a ‘vegan’ standard American diet (SAD) is no healthier than an omnivore SAD. It may even be worse because of a lack of eg B!2
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ibPqDPEF4U

        He advocates whole food plant based diets. The video points out that for most of our evolution, we have been eating 95%+ plants. Search the site for further info. He’s hardly alone in this advocacy. Pretty much every health authority on the planet from the World Health Organization downwards says we should eating a diet based on whole, grains fruits and vegetables. Why? Because that’s what the evidence shows is healthiest for most people. “Based’ on doesn’t mean ‘exclusively’ but it’s pretty clear that we should be getting most of our calories from whole plant foods.

      2. Hi Laurence,

        I had everything you do except for emphysema. Despite my then 35 years of research into various ways of healing myself, I wasn’t doing well because of my various food addictions. The number of times I’ve made terrific advances were followed by binges that would erase many of the gains. Eventually I was diagnosed with diabetes. That eventually led me to the Freestyle Libre which is a great device for measuring blood sugar by the second or minute or hour. You can tell exactly what happens to your blood sugar food by food if you put yourself on a mono diet while you experiment. That was an eye-opener for me. Whether you have diabetes or not, this is a great tool to help you manage your food intake.

        Another problem I have that you likely don’t is that I do not get full. The satiety switch is long gone. I can eat indefinitely. I get terrible gas mileage. I don’t gain weight though because I exercise a lot and because my brain requires massive amounts of energy to keep going. That’s because I also have a terrible form of Tinnitus. That’s head noise that is way beyond ringing in the ears. In my case it’s many unrelated sounds, all discordant and highly irritating and frustrating. To keep the noise at bay I have to keep my brain constantly occupied with novel things that cause me to focus enough to block the noise which is 24/7. This nutrition stuff is just one small area of interest for me because I need variety to keep me from getting bored.

        So going first to the monkeys, they are not vegetarian. They eat meat when they can get it the same as many other vegetarians and herbivores. They also eat insects. So did we. Pigs are similar but there are big differences. Also the studies medical scientists have done so far aren’t all they are cracked up to be. Intestinal health research is still in its infancy and still relies mostly on mice, rats and pigs who do not suffer from constipation. The scientists themselves probably all suffer from constipation. So how inspired is research going to be when a constipated scientist who has no idea he or she is constipated going to be when interpreting their results?

        Then there is their work on our mucosal system. That is vestigial at best. They are almost clueless on that subject and that subject is what I’ve been studying a lot lately.

        As for the Paleo Diet, I am another who does not believe what has been written is all it’s cracked up to be because there is so much left out and as has been mentioned on here by others, there are so many human ethnicities that no one menu fits all.

        When I’m talking about diet and menu items and their effects, I’m mainly talking about my ethic background which is Irish-English with ancestors who must have been Roman invaders as well as the Vikings, Normans and so on.

        You have osteoporosis and I was heading that way. When I reached 69, I realized I was shrinking fast and had lost half an inch of height. You don’t get that back no matter what. But collagen does help reverse bone density loss in my opinion based on my las MRI that showed clearly that my necrosis of the hip was healing. I’ve never heard of anyone doing that before.

        My collage comes from Costco and the brand is Organika. It’s tasteless and comes in powder form. I sprinkle that on salads and in soups. Or I did until I switched to bone broth in soups. My next experiment will be with moose, elk and deer bones.

        Nothing cures scoliosis. I have a spine like a corkscrew with the vertebrae turned sideways in the middle of my back. No pain but I did suffer a lot through my 50s and 60s. I tried everything to ease the pain. Nothing worked until I started with the collagen.

        I did try different brands and types of collagen and got no results at all until I tried Organika. So I’m not surprised by the number of people who say it doesn’t work. I’ve only recommended it to one friend who was injured. He uses prosthetics to get around but even so, a lot of his weight is carried by his shoulders. He was having issues with his shoulders and was becoming increasingly helpless to the point of not being able to get out of his house or get around in his house. He recovered the day after taking Organika. Fluke? Maybe but he’s still taking it.

        When you consume anything, your body uses the nutritional elements as a mechanic uses his tools to fix a car. That’s why you need a lot of variety in your diet. You don’t tear down a motor and put it back together with a couple of wrenches. It takes a massive amount of specialized tools and heavy machinery.

        Our bodies and those of every other species require certain nutrients for growth and maintenance and if you are not supplying those tools, the repair jobs wait until you finally get around to supplying them. If that takes too long, you start to deteriorate in multiple ways. The knee bone is connected to the thigh bone, the thigh bone is connected to the hip bone is connected to the… you get the message.

        Depriving your body of meat, while sustainable, means there are certain nutrients your body expect that you are not supplying. On the other hand, in my experience with tissue restoration, that process cannot start while you are eating meat, grain or dairy.

        That’s because of the fermentation factor.

        But going back to meat for a minute, science says the only nutrient we don’t get readily from plants is B12. Well my various investigations of the scientific process has shown me over and over again that our ability to detect trace elements in food is still primitive and crude despite electron microscopes. You’ve likely heard of phytonutrients. There are 490 in a carrot and science has no idea what they all do. Or even most of them. So a lot of what you read about nutrition, a good as it is now compared to even five years ago is still not up to much. Carrots are possibly the most studied vegetable and they’re a long way from being anywhere close to being done discovering all there is to know about them. So to have someone tell me that by not eating meat, I’m only going to miss B12 and that I can get a synthetic replacement that will do the same job is a swing and a miss for me.

        I have yet to see any type of wild animal taking supplements.

        I did do a comparison between both Ensure and Boost and a carrot. I set it all out in a couple of charts that will be in my book PITCHIN’ A LOAF AN’ MAKIN’ IT WORK. It doesn’t take a nutritionist to see that a carrot contains far more useful food elements than you could ever get from a can of Ensure or Boost. Yet patients who are incapable of chewing are put on these drinks exclusively as their maintenance diets. Well guess what? Soon afterwards those people have their organs shut down and they die. It’s legalized murder.

        I had a thyroid problem for a while and it expanded into a heart problem as well connected to a revived heart murmur. This was in 2013. To make a long story short I had to see a heart specialist who insisted I take alls sorts of powerful drugs. I tried one of each and that was it. Just from taking one I had serious detectable side effects.

        What I did was put myself on an elimination diet to figure out why I was all of a sudden having these issues. They all turned out to be responses to foods I was eating.

        The thyroid issue was due to sunflower seeds, then later, nuts in general. They were also responsible for my heart palpitations. Solution? Stop eating them. That was hard because I really enjoy them. Not as food but as smokers find, it’s something to have your mouth doing to pass the time. No nutritional intent at all.

        So that was the thyroid issue gone and the heart palpitations.

        My high blood pressure turned out to be be the massive kale salads I was eating a couple of times a day. My salads are big enough for a family of four or more. I stopped eating dark green leafy vegetables and my blood pressure returned to normal almost immediately.

        If I had believed my doctors, I’d be drugged up the yin yang by now.

        For asthma, I discovered by accident while I was dealing with a unique dental issue that my version of asthma was curable. I started taking The Dental Herb Company’s Under the Gums Irrigant. I gargled with it. That seemed to help a lot. So I put some in a vaporizer and inhaled the hot fumes. That was the end of my asthma. I’ve used it ever since whenever I seem to be getting a sore throat. I have not had a sore throat in two decades.

        The ingredients in the mouthwash seem to kill the streptococcus virus. That is the same virus involved in gum disease as well. So when you use this stuff, it takes care of all of your bacterial and viral hygiene. You can get it on Amazon or from the company itself.

        Sinus infections can only be ended by doing exactly what I’ve been telling people on this site since I first started. You have to get grain and dairy completely out of your diet. Every form of it, no cheating. Once you start doing that you can then begin irrigating your sinuses with a hypodermic needle (without the actual needle). Put the saline solution in the barrel of the needle and squirt that up your nose. The needle works far better than a netipot or the new squirt bottles. Hang your head over the sink and inhale the solution into your sinuses. It will take quite a few sessions to get all the dried snot out of your sinuses but you will get it all out. Once you do, when you breath you’ll learn how oxygen starved you’ve been for decades.

        This one thing, once you’ve done it, makes you realize how foreign to our bodies grain and dairy really is. More than anything else this will make you feel alive and happy. Since you will finally be getting the right amount of oxygen for effort expended, this should help relieve the emphysema somewhat.

        The next thing is to walk. When you are on the phone, you walk. While cooking, you walk, watching tv, pace back and forth in front of it. Be walking all day every day. Of course at first you won’t be able to. But if you do what I just said, before long you will be like me, walking and healing.

        This does not help upper body strength, for that lift light weights as you walk. Use weights that are comfortable for you to lift and lower for as long as you walk.

        The weight training will build muscle and stop the weight and muscle loss. As you age the phrase use it or lose it takes on a whole new meaning because if you aren’t using it, it disappears pretty fast.

        There is no way to avoid the holocaust for domestic animals. They exist only because we eat them. If everyone stops eating them, they are gone pretty well immediately for the simple reason that herds of domestic animals come with huge vet bills. If there is no pay back for their food and upkeep, No farmer can afford to keep them around.

        I hope this helps.

        1. There is no way to avoid the holocaust for domestic animals. They exist only because we eat them. If everyone stops eating them, they are gone pretty well immediately for the simple reason that herds of domestic animals come with huge vet bills. If there is no pay back for their food and upkeep, No farmer can afford to keep them around.
          —————————————————————————
          Interesting concept… and one in an article I just read that could be somewhat in agreement with you, although the author somewhat argues that it may not be as complete as some would suggest.

          https://singularityhub.com/2020/01/19/precision-fermentation-what-it-is-and-how-it-could-make-farming-obsolete/

          1. Lonie, I find this argument disingenuous. For one thing, the world is increasing its animal eating and so it is completely academic for the foreseeable future. For another, almost all of these animals are kept in inhumane conditions and suffer in many ways up to and including their all too painful deaths. The idea that there is some kind of equitable or justified trade off is ludicrous (there is no happy life in exchange for premature death for almost all of these animals). If the world ever reverses course, then the most likely scenario would be that the numbers of animals would be gradually reduced by simply not replacing them. Sure some would no doubt be prematurely killed if some factory farm goes out of business but no one has ever made the argument that a switch to no meat eating would be easy. Almost all of them are destined to die prematurely under any scenario. But unborn animals do not suffer. To me that’s the main point.
            Existing animals are pretty much screwed either way. So the trade off is, arguable, a good one.

            1. Lonie, I find this argument disingenuous. For one thing, the world is increasing its animal eating and so it is completely academic for the foreseeable future.
              ——————————————————–
              Hmmm… not the response I was expecting as I thought you were one of those aware of the changes taking place around us today… like the faux meat industry exploding on the scene to the point where cattlemen (generic term) are trying to stop them from even calling it beef.

              But I see now that you are caught up in a closed loop where everyday is Groundhog Day and you only see what is taking place yesterday. ‘-)

              Let’s revisit this conversation during the next decade, hmmm?

              1. Well, yes, that’s me – always expect the unexpected.
                Despite the whining of cattlemen, it is forecasted that

                From OECD‑FAO Agricultural Outlook 2018‑2027:
                “Global meat production is projected to be 15% higher in 2027 relative to the base period.
                Developing countries are projected to account for the vast majority of the total increase,
                with greater use of a grain-intensive feeding system in the production process, resulting in
                increased carcass weight. Poultry meat remains the primary driver of the growth in total
                meat production, but in the coming decade this growth will slow significantly compared
                to that of the previous one. Growth in global demand for animal protein in the next
                decade is projected to slow down for poultry and pigmeat, but increase for beef and sheep
                meat.”

                A slow down in growth does not mean no growth. This strikes me like alternative fuels – the fastest growing segment of the energy production sector (around 3-4% per year projected to 2030, as I recall) with an annual decrease in coal production (like 2% or something), yet in 2030 more than half of the energy produced will still be from fossil fuels, fueled by increases in Asia and any other underdeveloped, poverty stricken countries that need cheap energy, no matter what the Europe or the US does. (I happen to be very much in favor of getting off fossil fuels but think being realistic is also important).

                . Getting rid of the animal meat industry will, I’d guess, be just as slow.

                I have to admit that I did not read the article you linked to. No matter, my argument was with the argument given, which I consider defective and essentially a dodge.

                Keep going with the Force, Oh, Sage Forward Looking One :-) Me, I’m back to my hidey-hole.

                1. Ok, Lonie, got out of my hidey-hole long enough to read that article. Very interesting. Hope Monbiot is successful and what I said is dead wrong. Still these things always take much longer than the glowing predictions. Remember stem cell research and how that’s going to transform medicine? Seems to be taking a long time.

                  1. Ok, Lonie, got out of my hidey-hole long enough to read that article.
                    ——————————————————————————————–
                    AAARRRRGGGGG! I wish I had seen this post before I reacted to your previous one. Please disregard my last reply to you. ‘-)

                  2. Remember stem cell research and how that’s going to transform medicine? Seems to be taking a long time.
                    ———————————————————————————————-
                    Just a quick note on your observation… I think one of the things slowing down stem cell research has been govt. oversight. But that has changed in the past few years.

                    Are you aware that one can currently be injected with cord blood stem cells? (I had that procedure done 2years ago this March. ‘-)

                  3. Let me tell you about a long time for medical information to become known shall I?

                    Time is nearly meaningless in medical science because there are always long spell of mental blackouts very similar to nuclear meltdowns accidents and failure to understand the obvious.

                    Failure to understand the obvious is a huge deal in medical research. There is plenty of that on this site.

                    The Chinese learned of some medicinal traits of the mighty lemon in the 1300s but that information stayed in the east for centuries.

                    1497 Vasco Da Gama discovered that fruit cured scurvy but this did not become generally known internationally;

                    1507 Pedro Cabral and his crew confirmed what Vasco Da Gamma had done.

                    1593 Richard Hawkins did the same thing;

                    1614 John Woodhall surgeon’s mate, recorded in his journal – The Surgeon’s Mate that lemons, limes, oranges and tamarinds were recommended for scurvy;

                    1747 James Lind, Ship’s Surgeon aboard the HMS Salisbury, a 50 gun ship patrolling the English Channel did the clinical trial that determined that lemons and oranges cured scurvy.

                    1753 he recorded it in his book A Treatise of the Scurvy. He still had no clue what he had accomplished, but he had used a control group that established the value of the treatment.

                    1795 only 42 years after James Lind’s work was published did the British Admiralty make citrus fruit a compulsory part of the diet on British ships.

                    1771 James Cook returned to England after a voyage around the world without losing a single man to scurvy.

                    1795 HMS Suffolk sailed to India again without losing anyone to scurvy

                    1800 fresh fruit were understood to cure scurvy

                    1932 Glen King, University of Pittsburgh discovered that a lack of Vitamin C was the cause of scurvy.

                    1960s it was finally realized that scurvy could be prevented by adding Vitamin C to the diet.

                    Other medical uses of lemons and limes were documented in 1922 by Professor Arnold Erhet and again by Dr. Bernard Jensen. D.C.Nutritionist

                    I’ve been using those techniques to perfect effect for over 40 years but they are all still unknown to science.

                2. I have to admit that I did not read the article you linked to. No matter, my argument was with the argument given, which I consider defective and essentially a dodge.
                  ——————————————————————————————-
                  O.K., that explains a lot and you get a free pass as your sources seem to be locked in on linear change rather than exponential.

                  I guess I should just go back to quietly being the “Fool on the Hill”… aware of what is coming but understanding the hoi polloi will not recognize the wonderful changes that are coming until the changes are old news. ‘-)

                  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz… Apoligies for poking you with a stick. ‘-)

          2. Of course it won’t be complete. Lots of people will release animals to make it on their own. A large number of those animals might be pigs and that would be pretty scary for everyone who has seen the Texas tv shows about the problems wild hogs cause.

            Imagine coming across a prize bull on your way home from the pub. That could be just as fatal.

            Most likely wild horses would be a thing again.

            It takes a lot of effort to kill animals and if you are not set up for not only killing them, but disposing of their carcasses, that can be a problem few farmers would care to follow through on.

            1. Lots of people will release animals to make it on their own … It takes a lot of effort to kill animals and if you are not set up for not only killing them, but disposing of their carcasses, that can be a problem few farmers would care to follow through on.
              ——————————————————————————————————————————————-
              O.K. John… I gave you more credit than is justified I think.

              Maybe Canadian farmers would react as renegades as you suggest, but I grew up a member of the farming community and where I’m from less than 1% would just walk away from their operation and free Elsie the cow or Porky the pig.

              Not only that, there are laws here that will not allow that type of behaviour.

              1. The financial reality of paying for vets to treat herds of animals would soon catch up to nearly every farmer Lonie. No one on earth with any brains would fork out money to pay vet bills for animals that will not return a dime. They would be shovelling money out the window.

                Since those animals would no longer be paying their way, Joe farmer would have to get a job somewhere to pay his bills. You probably are acquainted with how far most farms are from anywhere, so guess what? Joe and family would have to move to town. Now there is NO ONE one the farm to feed the animals. WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT GET?

                1. The financial reality of paying for vets to treat herds of animals would soon catch up to nearly every farmer Lonie. No one on earth with any brains would fork out money to pay vet bills for animals that will not return a dime. They would be shovelling money out the window.

                  Since those animals would no longer be paying their way, Joe farmer would have to get a job somewhere to pay his bills. You probably are acquainted with how far most farms are from anywhere, so guess what? Joe and family would have to move to town. Now there is NO ONE one the farm to feed the animals.
                  ———————————————————————————————-
                  John, the OP in the link says this is going to happen in as soon as a decade. There is no drop dead date.

                  That means that the decrease will be a downward move on a graph. Farmers are quite intelligent people who can do the math. If they are losing money they will get it and switch to another use for their land.

                  One such use could be growing industrial hemp. That can be used to make fiber, plastic, wood, paper… just about anything you can think of. It will be that thing in the future that becomes a national (worldwide?) treasure.

                  Cattle farms are not locked in to being that one thing. Humans are great at adapting.

                  If I may quote you…WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT GET? ‘-)

                  1. Farmers are quite intelligent people who can do the math. If they are losing money they will get it and switch to another use for their land.
                    —————————————————————————
                    O.K., if the story I’m about to relate is true, then not all farmers are intelligent people.

                    There was this cotton farmer at the bank trying to borrow money for next years crop. The banker says, “Look farmer, you haven’t made a profit for the last three years… I can’t loan you money to continue planting cotton. However, if you are willing to switch to peanuts I’ll loan you money for that.”

                    The farmer being left with no other choice agreed.

                    After the next year’s harvest the farmer was at the kitchen table doing books and told his wife “Looks like we made enough on the peanuts to pay off all our loans at the bank with enough left over to put in next year’s crop without borrowing.”

                    “So, you are going to keep planting peanuts?” the wife asks.

                    “Hell no.” says the farmer. “Ain’t no banker gonna tell me what to plant this year. I’m goin’ back to cotton.”

                    1. Of course they will. The lucky ones will transform their farms into housing developments. Others will start growing hemp. There will be big money in that soon.

                      In the meantime, dairy is in decline and it won’t be coming back any time soon. So we’ll see how those farmers do and what they do.

                  2. The thing is I get all of it. That’s not what we were talking about.

                    We were talking about what would happen to the cows primarily if people stopped drinking milk and eating beef or pork.

                    So, you are the farmer. You have a $10,000 vet bill and no milk sales and no beef sales because your cattle all have BLV.

                    Your feed bill is currently at 100 grand and plenty of other expenses.

                    The cows all have to be destroyed to eradicate the virus. You have 3,000 head worth at least 4 grand each that are now worthless. You have to pay to dispose of them. Those that aren’t infected might be. What do you do?

                    Your neighbours are all in the same boat or worse.

                    1. The cows all have to be destroyed to eradicate the virus. You have 3,000 head worth at least 4 grand each that are now worthless. You have to pay to dispose of them. Those that aren’t infected might be. What do you do?
                      ———————————————————————————————————————-
                      John, you are thinking too small.

                      Assuming your scenario is relevant, the multi-trillion dollar U.S. govt. takes some money out of petty cash and takes care of the problem… or maybe the military sends a drone to the farm or pasture and vaporizes the animals (yes, the military is on the verge of using lasers as weapons) … or maybe they put the animals on an old Space Shuttle and send them into space.

                      And the farmer collects on his insurance policy on the cattle, sells his land, and buys a mansion in LA.

                      See? I can get just as fanciful as you. ‘-)

        2. Streptococcus virus? That is a bacteria, not a virus. My father was a vegetarian physician and in all the years I knew him he never had a cold or flu, was never sick, never under the weather until he had prostate cancer and died at age 71. I do get a virus or cold about once every two years, but it rarely lasts over 3 days. My immune system is quite healthy on a pure whole food plant-based no-oil, very low salt and sugar vegan diet, just like Dr. Gregor’s research recommends. He is dependable!

          1. A slip due to tiredness on the strep. My bad. But you just confirmed what I said about diet and colds. Possibly your dad drank milk though and we have all seen here about BLV.

    5. John N,
      You might want to check this recent study. Collagen does not seem very promising.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31990581
      Effectiveness of collagen supplementation on pain scores in healthy individuals with self-reported knee pain; A randomized controlled trial.

      The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of 12 weeks collagen peptide (CP) supplementation on knee pain and function in individuals with self-reported knee pain. N=167 Healthy physically active individuals (63[IQR=56-68] years) with self-reported knee pain received 10 g/day of CP or placebo for 12 weeks.

      NOVELTY • CP supplementation over a 12-week period does NOT reduce knee pain in healthy active middle-aged to elderly individuals. • CP supplementation over a 12-week period does NOT impact on inflammatory-, cartilage- and bone (bio)markers in healthy active middle-aged to elderly individuals.”

      1. Yeah, I know all of that but in my case and those of others I know about, collagen was the only difference.

        Keep in mind that in each case no – grain and no dairy.

        In my case, it worked very quickly and in another it made a huge difference the very next day.

          1. All of my work is anecdotal, but most new science starts that way. Scientists are rarely gifted with creative minds. They are plodders. If they weren’t science would be even more unreliable than it is.

            Creative thinkers are the people who are the ones who kill the sacred cows, not people who obey rules.

            My own doctor witnessed me achieving things with my methods that could not be done with traditional medicine. He recorded my progress and still refused to believe the evidence of his own eyes and his notes.

            We talked a lot about grain and dairy. That was long before the science done on Gluten was even thought of.

            My views on dairy and caffeine stunned him at first, but not until he had put me on prednisone for my arthritis. Eventually I figured out that I was being crippled by drinking tea. When I stopped drinking tea my arthritis cleared up. That was in 1992.

            Until I did, I could not roll over in bed without breaking into a sweat so bad due to the pain you’d think I’d used a garden hose to water the lawn. Walking was like walking on golf balls in bare feet. At 40 my movements were so painful I couldn’t cross a street before the light turned red again.

            All of the things I’ve researched, I researched because modern medicine had no effect. So it was do the research and be right or not do the research and die. The common cold was always life and death issue for me.

            Each time I caught a cold I tried new things. Nothing was ever obvious because, just like everyone here, I was addicted to grain.

            Even when I knew for sure that grain was the deciding factor in most of my illnesses, I just could not get my head around how much damage it causes. That’s why the research took 40 years and why it hasn’t stopped. I find new ways to temp fate and then bring myself back from death’s door.

            If my brain was a plodder’s brain, I could have done the science properly in 1990 and be famous by now. Everything I’ve said here, I’ve known since the 80s. None of it is new.

            What is new is Dr. Greger dragging “new” science into the spotlight that lobbyists were formerly able to use government connections and legislation to block.

            The battle to expose dairy hazards has been waged since the 1850s. Grain is more recent, only going back to Professor Arnold Erhet in 1922. His premature, accidental death is the biggest reason processed food has become so popular. In fact his death was fate ambushing the entire field of health restoration in an instant.

            The medical community lost no time in obliterating his work from public view. Fortunately. lay people saw the value in what he was doing and kept his philosophies going as though it was the occult practices of witches and wizards.

            As you might expect the details changed in minor ways over the years but his concepts have been proven over and over. He gets no credit though.

            One of those concepts is fasting. Without him, fasting would not be what it is today. But he was the master and modern science has yet to catch up to him.

            He was not a doctor either. But he regularly performed feats of health restoration that would be considered miraculous to this day.

            There were others in different medical fields like him whose work was concealed because the practitioner was not an accredited doctor or was otherwise deemed a medical heretic. They become pariahs in their own field even quicker today than they used to.

            I’ve personally know two such individuals and seen them both be eviscerated in public for daring to be different.

            No doctor could possibly last as long as I have saying the things I do.

            That’s why constipation is still not taken seriously and why no one until me has written a definitive book about how to resolve it properly. Doctors can’t do it even after 600 years of trying and billions spent curatives. In fact constipation is a growth industry and so prevalent in Asia they even talk about it in their movies.

            Here, constipation is still taboo.

            The working title for my book was A PORTRAIT OF A REALLY, REALLY GOOD SHIT. But American TV moguls won’t let me say shit on TV so I changed it to: PITCHIN’ A LOAF AN’ MAKIN’ IT WORK.

            A fun book over 330 pages long.

            If I was rich, I’d do like Dr. Greger and give it away for free, but since I’m not I’m hoping it sells well enough to pay me back for thousands upon thousands of hours I’ve spent on it.

            The next one is THE CURE FOR THE COMMON COLD. It’s not a pill, it’s a process.

  4. Hang on! The prestigious Harvard Medical school did a meta analysis and did not find a link between dietary cholesterol and atherosclerosis (heart disease) but their recommendation [in the same paper] was to “limit the consumption of cholesterol”. My doctor said the same thing (the first part). Im confused. Can someone please explain?

    1. Tom,

      “Limit consumption of cholesterol” is code for limiting MEAT consumption. Because cholesterol is mostly found in meat (though apparently very low levels appear in plants). But it is not the cholesterol that is a problem for most people, but rather the saturated fatty acids that are also found in meat. And these cause an increase in blood cholesterol levels, as well as other adverse effects.

      Most plant oils are liquid at room temperature, because they have high amounts of unsaturated fatty acids and low amounts of saturated fatty acids. But a few, such as coconut oil, and palm and palm kernel, have high amounts of saturated fatty acids, so these should definitely be avoided as well. Actually, Nutrition Facts recommends against added oils to our diets; if you type “oil” in the search bar in this site, you can watch the videos (or read the transcripts) to see why. (One reason is that they “stiffen” the arteries.)

      Finally, dietary meats have a host of other adverse health effects. Not to mention adverse planetary effects. Good luck, and good health!

    2. Tonym,

      There is a “diet war” about cholesterol, but even they do recommend limiting it.

      Part of the confusion is, for instance, poor starving uneducated people with no access to medical care and elderly people who are also slowly starving themselves and dieting Keto people who are in the middle of losing weight all are losing cholesterol and Dr. Greger added in crack addicts, I think. Cholesterol isn’t the entire issue, but the deniers are in denial.

    3. From my perspective, not backed by any kind of science, is that my diet is about 70%+ plant based. No grain whatsoever. That’s been for the past 8 months. I initially lost 20 pounds then stabilized. I got lucky and was given a lot of moose meat and Venison. So that’s all I eat for meat. Moose and venison has NO fat in it. It’s very dense so I only eat 3 ounces at a time. Being dense it is also rubbery. Some might call it tough. I like rubbery meat. It has the same texture as octopus and squid, so it’s chewy and you can chew it for a long, long time and enjoy it. I boil it in my soup. It takes about half an hour. On a diet like that, I don’t expect cholesterol issues. I eat a wide variety of vegetables. Watercress is no commonly available so I eat that every day.

      Green leafy vegetables have saponins in them. Saponins is the vegetable way to say soap. The soap in vegetables is what washes the excess cholesterol out of your veins. You do have to have your blood checked now an then to make sure you aren’t taking in too much Vitamin K. That will make you blood coagulate too quickly. Works for me.

      1. John,

        Oh deer.

        Or should I say, “Oh dear, Oh deer”

        My grandmother used to say, “Oh dear” I am pretty sure it was “Oh dear” and not “Oh deer.”

        She would say it after laughing until she cried. There would be a pause where she would calm herself down and dry the laughter tears from her eyes and say, “Oh dear.”

        But my 9-year-old pal and my close friends’ pregnant daughter say, “Oh deer” and that “Oh deer” was all over the decorations at the shower and on some baby clothes and on my 9-year old pal’s winter top.

        I ate venison when my uncle was a hunter. We had to eat what he shot. That was before I became allergic to meat.

        But deer are so beautiful that I prefer to view mine through a camera lens rather than a gun site.

        Deer are dear to me.

        1. Well I only eat wild meat that someone else shot. I gave up hunting and taxidermy many years ago. If I hadn’t, my friends would have killed all the local wildlife and have expected me to make wall mounts out of each of them. Besides that, my killing shots never killed. They were always perfectly placed, as near as I could tell, based on the holes i found through the organs later. I have a lot of respect for those people who can drop an animal with one shot. Anyway, after tracking each animal, I had to kill it while looking it in the eye. That was too much for me. So now I get meat when someone else can’t finish it themselves. Another compelling reason for a mostly plant based diet.

          There is no question, wild meat is infinitely better than domestic meat quite apart from the BLV issue. If I never have to eat domestic meat again it will be too soon. Reality will of course catch up to me. But I did find a great place to get moose and deer bones for my bone broth soup.

          1. John.

            Yes, I would agree with you.

            Including the reality that most people don’t have the skill to kill an animal in one shot.

            A while back, I thought about how many animals would have died if I had kept eating animals 2 or 3 meals per day, like I did when I was young.

            They say that the average person lives about 27,375 days. Even one meal a day was too much to think about.

            But I do respect my uncle’s generation where they mostly shot or fished what the animals they ate.

            When I was too young to understand, I went fishing once and caught a lot of fish when I was with my friend’s family and the thing is, in my elderly relatives’ view, that meant you cleaned them and ate them and respected that it was a living thing that you just killed. I never made that mistake again. My uncle liked fishing, but he threw them back. My mother slowly became allergic to fish the same way I became allergic to meat and my father hated fish.

            Either way, I could no longer just eat animals without it affecting me.

            1. I was in the tropical fish industry in various ways for 20 years from the age of 12. You don’t associate with fish for that long, where you are caring for their nutrition, health and breeding requirements without feeling like a cannibal when you eat one. Every fish has a personality. Not at all like ours but even so, after hours of looking at them you get better and better at knowing them personally. I always thought the notion that fish feel no pain to be completely ludicrous. I’ve held fish in my hands and dug fish lice out of them. There is no way anyone can do that and then claim the fish felt no pain. Then there is the claptrap about instinct. What a misleading word that is!

              Even so, I have eaten a lot of beef, pork, duck, turkey, chicken and fish. Domestic animals rightly or wrongly could not exist if we didn’t want to eat them. The fact that we do eat most of them is the price they pay for life itself. If we all ceased to eat meat overnight, there would be an instant slaughter take place all over the world. There’d be not much left but dogs, cats, horses and other pets. Animals are too expensive to keep alive unless there is a financial pay-back.

              On the other hand, with the fake cows out of the way, there would be no reason to bring back the real bovines – the bison. Then the restoration of North America could begin properly.

              1. John,

                Thanks for sharing that. I like stories like that.

                I agree totally.

                I watched some footage from the deep sea and you see fear.

                Technically, there are people who have defects where they can’t feel much pain and they are reckless and aren’t afraid even when they should be.

                The genetic defects existing tells me that it is possible that some other animals don’t have as much pain but looking at mistreated animals they all show so much emotion.

                1. Yes, fish are sentient creatures and there’s increasing scientific evidence for those who remain skeptical.

                  https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/fish-have-feelings-too/

                  “In fact, science is increasingly revealing that fishes are intelligent, emotional beings—but the inflated value we tend to assign to all things human often prevents us from accepting such findings, says biologist Jonathan Balcombe, author of What a Fish Knows .
                  Because fishes lack faces like ours, we assume that their mask-like features mean they do not experience feelings. And because fish cannot cry out, we interpret their silence as meaning they do not perceive pain—even as their gasping mouths and flopping fins on a ship’s deck indicate otherwise.”

                  https://www.zmescience.com/ecology/animals-ecology/fish-emotional-states-01112017/

                  According to some work, they even have cultural traditions.
                  https://www.zmescience.com/ecology/animals-ecology/fish-ethics-animal-cruelty-20062014/

                  “His research focused especially on bony fish, and showed that fish are, in fact, far more intelligent than previously believed; contrary to the cliche, they have quite good memory, live in complex social communities where they keep track of individuals, and can learn from one another. They even develop cultural traditions, use tools, and in many ways behave similar to primates – except for the fact that they don’t imitate.”

                  Killing and eating animals for food while acknowledging they are sentient is one thing, denying they are is quite another. Speciesism serves to insulate people from reality, making them feel better, and is tough to defeat.

      2. John you might want to investigate chronic wasting disease in deer… it’s a prion based disease and hunters are advised to have their venison tested before consuming. Cruzfeldt Jakob disease (CJD) is the human version of Mad Cow disease… all prion based and deadly. I wouldn’t touch deer any longer!
        I live in a large city that has continually encroached on the deer habitat and they wander into our yards daily… they are small, some visibility I’ll and many with CWD. SAD! Be careful!

    4. Hi Tonym, thanks for your question. I saw that Deb has kindly referred you to a number of Dr Greger videos regarding Cholesterol. Please note that body produces Cholesterol and body adjusts it cholesterol production based on diet as well. Cholesterol serves three main purposes:
      It aids in the production of sex hormones.
      It’s a building block for human tissues.
      It assists in bile production in the liver.
      However, lipoproteins, which are compounds made of fat and protein that are responsible for carrying cholesterol throughout the body in the blood are the issue to consider and the size of the particles are important factor to consider. It is noted that LDL (low density lipoprotein)leads to plaque accumulation on the walls of your arteries. HDL (high density lipoprotein) helps keep your cardiovascular system healthy. It actually aids in the removal of LDL from the arteries. Having said that each individual has to look into their diet and life style and note what agrees with them based on blood tests and individual detailed medical history. Whole food Plant based helps the body to regulate the cholesterol level. Also, many foods can help lower cholesterol. These include avocados, legumes, nuts, soy foods, fruits, and vegetables. I hope this is useful to you.
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/Does-Cholesterol-Size-Matter/
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/optimal-cholesterol-level/

  5. we who believe the biblical account of creation, know that the original diet for man from Adam to Noah was plants only; no animal flesh was given for food; after the flood God added animal products to man’s diet. Noah offered animal sacrifices after leaving the ark, and some of this offering was for food, but needed to be an important witness that man as a sinner, needed an atoning sacrifice, here an animal substitute, for foreshadowing the once for all atoning sacrifice of the body ad blood of Messiah Jesus.

    1. If that was real, why did Noah allow so many poisonous snakes on board? What about the mosquitoes? Where were the Inuit people? The polar bears. We still don’t need black flies or deer ticks by the way. Who shovelled all the shit? I don’t remember that part. I don’t remember anything about kangaroos either.

  6. Really enjoyed this one– a masterfully succinct version of Dr. Greger’s many previous videos on “paleo” diet issues. This is the one I’ll bookmark for future reference.

    1. When I hear people proudly proclaiming that they are eating a ‘Paleo Diet’, I have to ask them -whose- Paleo Diet?
      Surely people around the globe ate whatever was available. And this would have varied with the area.

      All of this discussion begs the question anyway. We are not living in prehistoric times. And, in most places, people can choose what to eat. So the real question should be, what should you, as an individual, eat for optimum health?
      I do think that WFPB is best for all. But the exact foods and ratios may need to be tweaked for certain genetic polymorphisms and energy needs.
      As genetic testing becomes better this will hopefully get easier.
      For now, people need to notice how various foods affect them. Certain foods may be very healthy for some, but not for you.

      1. Marylin,

        Those are good points.

        For me, these ancient people’s may have had some brilliant people who understood how to eat better than us even with all our science but they would have had their share of food confused people, too.

        I can look back at historical books and books like the Bible.

        People were doing stupid things back then, so what does looking back really tell us?

        1. Oops, sorry I spelled your name wrong.

          I often have dyslexia with the name, Marilyn and I am not sure why. I think it is because of the name, Mary.

  7. Today, I have made my final decision on multi-cookers and grains.

    My $20 rice cooker, which America’s Test Kitchen ended up having win their contest 2 years in a row, besting even the fuzzy logic rice cookers, makes grains and doesn’t hold onto the food for 20 minutes after it is done cooking.

    It doesn’t shut off immediately and say, “burn” when I use dried beans or if there is too much starch in the pan and doesn’t spray all over my cabinets (saving me 20 more minutes of clean up at the end)

    It doesn’t get pressurized, which means I can eat immediately when it is finished.

    Honestly, it cooks rice fast without pressure and because I had to wait so long for the Instapot to get to pressure and release pressure and because it required so much cleaning up from spraying all over the kitchen, I think I am finished with dinner and clean-up a half-hour faster than when I tried to use a pressure cooker and since my Instapot shut off every time I cooked starches, and I had to start over, I am actually saving well over an hour.

    Now if I can just do this.

    I also found a UVC box to sanitize my water-only cleaning cloths now and then.

    Getting there.

    I need to apologize to everyone that I just have been so ridiculous at all of this. Tears. I can’t believe how hard it all has been for me. Genuinely so hard that I feel like I am not sure if I am cognitively so far behind that I can never catch up and somehow I need to start implementing everything.

    1. Deb, many people stay clear of rice because of the arsenic issue. Have you found other ways of getting the nutrients commonly found in rice?

      1. You can buy low arsenic rice e.g. from Lundberg. I remain a bit skeptical of the fear of rice as long as it’s not from the SW US. Type also makes a difference.

        1. gengo, when I downloaded the rice / metals tables a couple of years ago, and then checked the Lundberg site for the tables they published for their rice, I did not think Lundberg was low at all in comparison the some Indian/Pakistani rices for example, or rice that was
          described as being from the himilayan foothills.
          What Lundberg did offer that I liked a lot was 1. transparency and 2. organic. Not many growers out there willing post their lab results for all to see.

          So, I use it maybe once or twice a month, wash it and then boil it in great volumes of water, and drain.
          And, last night (speaking of rice) I made a tex mex casserole that made huge volumes of food (!) … a rare occassion ideed but it was a postponed Christmas dinner. The recipe was from Oh She Glows. awesome !

          1. >>> not think Lundberg was low at all in comparison the some Indian/Pakistani rices for example, or rice that was described as being from the himilayan foothills.

            Yes, as I recall that is true, Barb.

            But I have trouble trusting imported rice, even so-called organic rice from supposedly clean farms in China, as all sorts of contaminants are possible. So I prefer California rice, which is lower in As than SW US rice.

            As I recall short grain brown and basmati rice were the lowest in the Lundberg tests but my memory could be faulty (shudder the thought!). I also eat frozen and dethawed white rice at slightly above room temperature, which is lower in arsenic and if frozen/cooled provides resistant starch for the good good bacteria. But no doubt I eat too much rice…

            1. gengo, I hear ya on the “where is it grown” issue! There are places I won’t buy food from, so I agree with your choices. I probably have to revisit these videos because I am trying to recall if it was garlic or something green that did a great job of detoxing arsenic… either way, I think we’re good.

              I was thinking of getting away from the wheat type grains, and more over to the rice. My allergies calm down a lot with rice, and the resistant starch is a huge plus as well. Boiling on the stove takes just 30 or 35 minutes and I make extra. (I sometimes use potato starch to thicken stir fry veg sauces too for the resistant starch).

              1. It sounds to me like wild rice would do you a lot better. Look up the nutritional comparisons. Plus wild rice is simply way better for nutrition and taste in my opinion as well as having no arsenic at all if you buy Canadian.

    2. Deb,

      I’m sorry to hear about all of your problems with an Instant Pot; I’ve never had those problems, nor has anyone I know of.

      That said, I rarely cook rice in mine — in part out of concern about arsenic. Though I did cook a brown rice and brown basmati rice mixture the other night; it came out perfectly. I follow the cooking charts in one of Jill Nussinow’s pressure cooking books, “The New Fast Food” and “Vegan Under Pressure” (Jill is an RD who has been teaching plant based eating for 30+ years; she’s also a great cook! Her books contain information about pressure cooking, cooking charts for whole grains, rice, beans, and veggies, and lots of delicious recipes). I did have a rice cooker, which took about 2 – 2.5 hours to cook brown rice. The time in the Instant Pot was about 45 minutes; that’s faster than my rice cooker. I never cooked white rice, as I don’t eat it.

      However, I usually cook other grains, such as quinoa, polenta, etc as well as lots of beans, soups, stews, veggie dishes, etc. Even Dr. Greger says he now cooks his beans in an electric pressure cooker (I can’t recall if it is an Instant Pot). Last night, we ate an “easy vegan chili” over the rice mixture, both cooked in the IP (though separately).

      But if your rice cooker works for you, that’s fine. I did use my rice cooker to cook other grains and to cook beans — which had to be pre-soaked first. (I don’t have to pre-soak beans to cook them in my IP, and I rarely do.) There are cookbooks with information about and recipes for cooking different types of rice, whole grains, and beans in rice cookers, and it worked very well, but was very slow.

      1. Dr J.

        Whenever I have tried cooking dry beans in mine, my Instant Pot shuts off immediately when it comes to pressure.

        I had more than one of them and I didn’t understand why it did that with starches but Consumer Reports had the same thing happen when they tested them.

        It shuts off at zero minutes cooking every time.

        I felt like I bought it to cook dried beans without soaking, but I never succeeded.

    3. Deb, We also cook all grains in a rice cooker (a Japanese “neuro fuzzy”
      Zojirishi), including various kinds of rice (Lundberg, so hopefully low arsenic since I eat a lot of rice), oat groats, barley, kasha, quinoa, some wheat. Works well for us. Only use the instant for bean soup.

      1. Thanks, Gengo!

        That is helpful to me!

        Do you have a model # that is made in Japan or China.

        They are pretty tricky nowadays and that brand has both and some Amazon people had the Japanese model bait and switched with a Chinese model that doesn’t work well.

        Most products nowadays seem to do a higher quality product until they get good reviews then switch to junk.

        The rice cooker I have won America’s Test Kitchens test and then they switched to a new and improved version.

        That seems usually to be a euphemism for breaks sooner.

        I think about the Instapot and the recent ones failed with Consumer Reports and Wire Cutter and it can be that they have changed to China or something.

        1. I have been looking for studies to decide which UV cleaner to use.

          Steam and UV seem like good ideas if I am doing water only cleaning.

          The instapot viva has a sterilization function and I laugh that I would put an instapot on my potential water only cleaning rags sanitizing list.

          None of the stupid reviewer people of the wands actually tested to see if the germs went away.

          Dr Annie got me interested in the steripen

          http://www.dranniesexperiments.com/steripen-uv-water-purifier-testing

          Because I prefer my water filtered to get rid of the chlorine taste but don’t want the bacteria.

              1. You haven’t had any fuzzy logic fails?

                America’s Test Kitchen did have them but the made in Japan models seem better but the manufacturers try to sell Chinese models to the Americans.

          1. If you look at the steripen results, scroll down to the water she intentionally made dirtier.

            UV is exciting to me.

            They use it for baby bottles and medical sanitizing and cPAP cleaning so I think it is just about finding a brand that isn’t a scam.

                1. Pub med had one review of UV products where they seemed to say

                  It is probably too good to be true and the LA Times and NYTimes said almost the same thing all without doing any actual test on the devices.

                  Almost like they are afraid people will stop buying cleaning products or something.

                  1. I am thinking I could buy glass baby bottles with travel caps and a sterilizer.

                    Versus

                    A steripen.

                    My travel glass water bottle might not fit in the bottle sanitizer.

                    It seems like Glass baby bottles might be at a baby clothing shop cheap. Maybe a bottle sterilizer, too.

                    1. I think I want one to clean off fruits and vegetables and toothbrushes, too.

                      Discovery Channel tested Phone Soap and it worked 100%.

                      Food safety UV would be groovy.

                      The fabric vacuum UV is another one I have looked at instead of washing my wonderful Eddie Bauer furry on one side down throw.

                      I am thinking about buttoning a small search of coordinating warm fabric at the top of the silky side so it never touches my hands but it is still my favorite winter blanket ever.

                      Now, solving for water, and seeing if my fruit and veggies and toothbrush can be cleaned without vinegar are my current permanent life solutions.

        2. Deb, It’s a several years old Zojirushi NS-ZCC10, which is a small one. Likely there are newer models now. I did not do an in depth review of brands. My wife, who is Japanese, was familiar with the brand as it’s common in Japan, so that’s what we got. Been using this one for about 3 years.

          We cook all grains except white rice on the brown rice setting and amount of water.

  8. A couple of questions.
    1. How long did hominids live (in comparison to the 25-year paleo lifespan)?
    2. My paleo friends say that eating animals is what enabled brains to become as big as they are now and that brains require animal fat. What do you say to that?

    I’m vegan, but the paleo friends think that my memory and cognitive issues can be solved by eating meat/animal fat. I also have insomnia, so I think that’s the likely culprit. But what if it isn’t?

    1. Insomnia, which I have suffered from, can certainly be the culprit.

      Blaming it on lack of meat or animal fat is just wacky.

      But you could well have a B12 deficiency. My meat eating daughter in law had a B12 deficiency and was losing her memory and cognitive sharpness. B12 supplementation cured her. You could also be absorbing too little iron and be anemic. My WFPB wife had that problem but solved it by increasing vitamin C with meals.

      Have you been tested for these or other conditions? That’s what I’d do, and stop listening to those friends, who seem ignorant.

      In general, vegans can have a number of dietary deficiencies including iodine and zinc if they are not careful.

      Please keep in mind that I am not a medical professional and think anyone with possibly serious issues should get diagnosed by one.

      1. >>>solved it by increasing vitamin C with meals.
        Vitamin C greatly increases absorption of non-heme iron (the kind of iron in plant food, as opposed to heme iron, found in animal food).
        Dr. Greger mentions this in some video or other.

        I guess I should add that if you have an iron deficiency, then eating meat, which contains heme iron, could fix that problem, but along with it could come the downsides of meat eating as detailed by Dr. Greger.

        Good luck with whatever you do.

    2. Amy

      You wrote ‘My paleo friends say that eating animals is what enabled brains to become as big as they are now and that brains require animal fat.’

      Your friends are just mindlessly repeating claims that they have found on the internet. No-one knows for sure why human brains became as big as they are. There are various hypotheses including eating starch, cooking food, eating fruit, eating seafood and eating insects/grubs. There are also theories that don’t involve particular foodstuffs

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3189454/The-secret-man-s-intelligence-POTATOES-Humans-evolved-large-brains-ancestors-ate-starchy-carbohydrates.html
      https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/oct/22/cooking-supports-increased-human-brain-power
      https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/fruit-eating-responsible-big-brains
      https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/lives-the-brain/201001/was-seafood-brain-food-in-human-evolution

      People who make this claim about meat are just desperately seizing upon a reason to eat (red) meat because it is now pretty clear that the more meat we eat, the greater our risk of early death. This seems to be true even when like many paleo diet enthusiasts people also eat lots of fruits and vegetables (FV). For example, this study found

      ‘Background: High red meat consumption is associated with a shorter survival and higher risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD), cancer, and all-cause mortality. Fruit and vegetable (FV) consumption is associated with a longer survival and lower mortality risk. Whether high FV consumption can counterbalance the negative impact of high red meat consumption is unknown………….
      Conclusion: High intakes of red meat were associated with a higher risk of all-cause and CVD mortality. The increased risks were consistently observed in participants with low, medium, and high FV consumption.’
      https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/104/4/1137/4557128

      Your paleo friends may be eating themselves into an early grave.

      As for the claim that the human brain needs animal fats, this is more fantasy. The human brain runs on sugars not fats. It can run on fat in an emergency but that is not its preferred fuel. In fact, the most common animal fat in Americans’ diets appears to be saturated fat and

      ‘ Long-term and short-term consumption of high saturated fatty foods during adulthood produces a sensitized inflammatory phenotype, via a glucocorticoid rise, in the hippocampus, leading to learning and memory vulnerabilities. Imbalance of omega-3 and omega-6 PUFA contribute to neurodevelopmental disorders by altering microglial activation resulting in abnormal formation of neuronal networks and activity. Finally, consumption of fruits and vegetables high in polyphenolics can prevent and reverse age-related cognitive deficits by lowering oxidative stress and inflammation. Collectively these data show that attention to dietary composition is important for lasting impact beyond the metabolic and highlight the promising likelihood that we may improve our cognition throughout life and into the aging period with simple dietary interventions.’
      https://www.nature.com/articles/s41538-017-0008-y

      Also,

      ‘Of all the different types of fatty acids, the findings are most consistent for an increased risk of cognitive decline with a higher intake of saturated fatty acids.’
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4107296/

      Your paleo friends have it dead wrong – they are increasing their risk of early death and dementia it seems.

      It’s little surprise then that dietary guidelines around the world say we should be eating more whole grains. fruits and vegetables, None of them recommend paleo/low carb/keto diets. Your friends have been duped.

    3. Amy,

      I am recovering from serious brain problems and I went off of saturated fats to help my brain.

      You might want to break it down into causes of brain problems.

      For me, saturated fats were one of the biggest problems for 2 reasons.

      One is that we need blood flow to the brain and fats also can contribute to Type 2 Diabetes, both problems were ones I had.

      I had to also stop eating refined carbs and sugar.

      Plus, I needed to use silica water for 12 weeks to get the aluminum out of my brain. Fiji water, 1 liter per day for 12 weeks did amazing things.

      Homocysteine is more likely to be causing your problems. Maybe get tested for that and B-12 and make sure you are supplementing B-12 and eating plant foods with Folate.

      Methyl B-12 is not shelf stable and if that is the kind you are taking, either try Cyano or add another type to it. There is a new source of B-12 coming out per Mic the Vegan.

      Don’t just rely on food sources.

      Also, are you menopausal or post-menopausal and if so, estrogen changes can be contributing and adding soy milk or edamame or tempeh or miso might help.

      Also try Vitamin D3 and DHA.

      I know that they aren’t popular topics, but get sun and eat flaxseeds and walnuts and greens to get enough ALA but I believe the DHA helped my brain.

      Foods with Lutein are another thing.

      See Dr Greger’s videos.

      Eat kale, blueberries, turmeric, 90% cacao, broccoli sprouts, beets, dark grapes.

      Soy if you think it might be related to hormones.

      There are gadgets that help blood flow to the brain like vie light knock offs for $25 on Amazon or Infrared LED panels also on Amazon. I was using a $20 heat lamp infrared bulb which worked amazingly well, but I switched to LED.

      Exercise increases brain size.

      Brain exercise also makes sense.

      Someone other than me had problems related to hormones, so drink your soy milk.

      Blood sugar, circulation, toxins, aluminum, homocysteine, alcohol, not enough Omega 3, not enough D3, not enough iodine, not enough Magnesium, not enough plant foods with folate or lutein, not enough sleep, perhaps sleep apnea.

      That is where I would start

      1. Amy,

        Regarding the Methyl B-12,

        I developed deficiency symptoms while I was supplementing with Methyl B-12 and I have interacted with other people who have had the same thing happen.

        That being said, a small portion of society genetically need Methyl donors.

        Just know that Methyl by itself might not be enough.

      2. I think I would go to my family doctor and allow him/her to order the blood tests they feel necessary to find out what’s going on. That’s where I would start.

    4. I think several other commenters have given you wise advice, comments, but I’ll just add, you can always ask your Paleo friends what research they are citing to make their claims. Obviously, you can then cite the well respected sources that Dr. Greger uses to show the shaky status of their claims if you wish.

  9. Wow. A great deal of low quality comments for a good video. I’m so glad that Dr Greger points out that only reproductive success was needed to sustain evolutionary changes. The whole arguing about “paleo” diets is just a lot of nonsense as the premise is faulty. There never was an idyllic perfect Eden where we had a perfect diet that resulted in perfect long lifespans.

    People have trouble understanding the fundamental differences that have happened with modern industrial developments. The best description of earlier human and pre human diets is “anything we could get our hands on.” Before we could convert atmospheric nitrogen into fertilizer through industrial process all gains were limited. After this process was developed there was an inflection point in human population. So now we have choices that earlier humans simply did not have. We don’t choose to live in mud huts. We don’t choose to only travel by walking barefoot. We don’t choose to abandon writing. So what leads us to imagine that prehistoric dietary choices should be preferable? Cognitive failure, that’s what. We should just go with the science and reject the ridiculous “paleo” garbage. It really is just an image in people’s minds that is created by suggestion in order to peddle stuff that isn’t supported by research.

  10. I think the fact that the Paleo diet has vegan versions and that it is eat a whole lot of veggies and herbs and the diet can be totally plant-based.

    I guess I am thinking that people who go Paleo generally move from SAD and it would benefit them so much.

    Right, Dr Greger.

    Paraphrasing his Kelly and Ryan show interview which he did very well and his personality showed better than last year…

    Even adding one serving of vegetables helps tremendously.

    (Yes I forgot the statistic)

    1. Nope, it was his Fox interview where he mentioned if people eat a single serving of vegetables per day there would be 20,000 fewer cases of cancer every year.

      The thing is…

      Dr. Greger has to answer the people who speak against veganism and WFPB and things he believes, but when he answers questions on television or the internet interviews, he doesn’t become elitist. He encourages any small changes people can make. Same with Dr. Ornish and Dr. Esselstyn.

      Not sure that all of them celebrate every small change people make but Dr. Greger does and I give two thumbs up to that.

      If this world is going to heal, it will be people who are not elitists against the masses.

  11. People go Paleo and give up junk food and add 10 servings of vegetables and a cup of herbs.

    I applaud them for trying to improve their eating.

    Way to go!

      1. And, no, I am not coming against Dr Greger’s video, but before you try to knock your loved ones off of Paleo, many of them end up gang back to SAD or Keto.

        And I have seen that firsthand.

        If they go Keto, I say, “Remember Dr Berg says eat 10 servings of low glycemic index vegetables and keep your animal products at 5%.’

  12. Okay, this weekend, I solved for water and cleaning.

    So I think I may not talk in as many circles around everybody else.

    I am getting a Steripen adventurer.

    The Steripen Adventurers can sterilize 1 liter of water per day for 7 years and they have plenty of tests online with Petri dishes and they work.

    I am tempted to get one to test it in the toilet bowl just to see how powerful it is.

    I am also getting a bigger UV system for fabrics, couches, and bedding.

    I will either be using UV or steam BEFORE using my water-only cleaning cloths so that they won’t get filled with bacteria.

    I am going to get a pack of the silvertize and those will be for my toilet cleaning, but I will use a steam cleaner first.

    The concept that washing machines are so inefficient that they don’t kill germs makes me think that they are only for when things have odors or stains.

    Well, I will see how it all goes, but I have poor people who can’t afford cleaning supplies and I think this will work.

    1. I am getting a Steripen adventurer.

      The Steripen Adventurers can sterilize 1 liter of water per day for 7 years and they have plenty of tests online with Petri dishes and they work.

      I am tempted to get one to test it in the toilet bowl just to see how powerful it is.
      ———————————————————————————————————————–
      Deb, I have a stainless steel water distiller that can sterilize a gallon of water every 3 1/2 hours. Not only is the water sterile, it is pure as well. Oh, and rather than test for sterility in a toilet bowl, use the sink instead… more germs in the sink. ‘-)

    2. Okay, this weekend, I solved for water and cleaning.
      —————————————————————————
      Love your phrasing. ‘-)

  13. Poor people don’t have money for laundry mats or washers and dryers.

    If washing machines don’t kill germs, then maybe just get a UV fabric vacuum or a steamer vacuum with a fabric attachment and just look for stains and rinse crotches and treat for germs and hang it back up in the closet since even a handiwipe self-disinfected somewhat after 24 hours?

    Wait a week and maybe give it another swipe with a UV wand and maybe that would be enough?

    Or spot clean and hang outdoors if you live in a sunny place?

    Seems like the washing machines only killing germs on sanitize has to have someone smart to think through the paradigms.

    Re-hang up your clothes and never do a load of laundry again?

    1. If they have enough clothes, they might be able to just hang it up for 2 weeks and maybe the self-disinfect might kick in?

      Not sure about that one.

      I need some Petri dishes.

      1. I just did the math and when the economy crashes because people figure out that they don’t need any of the stinking products, the poor people will lose their jobs and be worse off than when they just couldn’t afford to do their laundry.

        Meaning, I need to process this with poor people and petri dishes and not start a movement.

  14. I have a problem with paleo dieter’s argument that their diet is better for humans. How would they know if humans back then led better (i.e. healthier) lives when most prehistoric humans I assume would have lived pretty short brutish lives. Are there archaeological or any scientific evidence support the paleo dieter’s assumption?

    1. I agree Dorian.

      Plus, even if they found archaeological evidence, it wouldn’t mean that everybody everywhere ate the same way back then.

      1. Okay, here we go on the health and lifestyles of the ancients.

        First of all some things to be understood.

        1. Not all cultures began eating grain at the same time. The times varied by over a hundred thousand years depending on where they were geographically. So I generalize about the times because I’m illustrating a literary point that doesn’t require a description of every society that ever lived.

        2. I define grain as those seeds bearing gluten which is latin for GLUE. You may define it differently.

        3. Non-gluted grain is seeds. These were the grains being consumed by the earliest cultures. Since they have no gluten, they also caused no tooth decay.

        4. In the absence of dairy, grain and sugar, the oral chemistry of the human mouth was completely different than the human mouth chemistry today.

        5. When the life span of an animal is defined, the life span is determined by the average length of time the adults lived, not the offspring that did not make it to adulthood. For instance, guppies have about 30 live young at a time and the females are always pregnant. So they drop about a load every couple of months or so. They live two years. In captivity. Less in the wild – a year maybe. But 2 years is the life span. Some live 4 years though. In captivity. In the wild, of those offspring, one or two of the 200 or so offspring from that one guppy make it to adulthood. Most don’t last a day. But the life span is still 2 years. Are you understanding how this works? Because the exact same thing happens with Inuit.

        6. The idea that “cavemen” led short lives was due to archeologists averaging out the lifespans of all the bones, children and adults. That led to a misconception that complicates how we think of our ancestors. Their assessments came from skeletal remains found in caves. In my opinion, except in the biggest caves, most caves were used as hospitals. The remains found in caves are always injured, sick or murdered. Healthy people did not hang around in caves waiting to die. So those deaths were all premature. In most cases, The dead people would have stunk to high heavens. Caves with dead people in them would not have been pleasant homesteads.

        7. Our ancestors did not live short, brutish lives. I can tell you from personal experience that it takes a lot of intelligence to live successfully in a wild environment as well as many skills long since lost. Short lives would not have led to a need for menopause. Short lives would not have allowed our ability to exceed 110 years old. Horses can live to be 30 years old but not 100. The oldest gorilla died at age 63 on June 26, 2019.

        8. Parents dying at 30 years old means their offspring were left as orphans and unlikely to survive. If those people had died that early there is not a chance in hell the human race could have survived. If only a few old people survived, they would have had huge crowds of youngsters following them around all hoping to be fed. People need to live a long time to pass on information. The length of time needed to pass enough information on to the next generation to allow it to thrive is probably what dictates length of life for a species. For example, right now those of my generation remember what constituted the health of the planet back into the 40s. People born after 1980 have no memory or way to find out what it was like. Most of them don’t care. If I was able to pass on what I know, I could be busy for another 40 years at least. If I don’t do that, I have no purpose. So why should I continue to live? Not necessary really. So I’m reduced to communicating to people who mostly can’t appreciate it here. You just don’t know enough.

        9. Of course, diets varied all over the place due to geography. There was no shipping of goods by truck before domestic animals and we know that didn’t happen until very recently. It’s hard for people today to contemplate going into the bush and not coming home until you had killed something with either your bare hands or a couple of sticks so they could eat that day. All you would starve first.

        10. Due to point 9, you know honey and eggs were extremely rare due to seasonality and how hard it would be to find them. So neither were a big food source. Sugar was not on the menu.

        11. Grain was not on the menu

        12. Dairy was not on the menu.

        13. Insects were on the menu and were the first vitamin pills and more effective than those we have today because they were foundational species that transformed first stage biomass into nutrients that could advance up the food chain.

        14. How nutrients advanced up the food chain was by predation. Predators’ first choice of a carcass is usually the entrails where the shit is. The pure nutrition in other words. We today don’t eat that stuff. We are too good for that. We are also the sickest species on the planet as a result. But our Paleo ancestors did eat that stuff. That is the part of the Paleo diet that is never mentioned. All animals eat fecal matter one way or another.

        15. Our ancestors were big in every way. Their skeletal structures were massive compared to todays weight lifters.

        16. Paleo women were far stronger than the strongest man today. We know that because of the bones.

        17. Paleo man did not get sick until grain became part of the diet. Until then, Paleo man had no colds, no sinus issues, did not snore, did not fart, but could be constipated if they were stuck eating only meat and no fibre just the same as us. We cannot be carnivores because our colons cannot function properly without fibre. That’s because fibre is needed to keep meat meals liquid enough and soft enough to pass quickly.

        18. Paleo shit was pasty, not hard as a direct result. Constipation slows down defecation. Anyone squatting taking a dump was vulnerable to predation. A natural dump takes 7 – 14 seconds. That was all the time they could afford.

        19. Farting when or if it did happen was odourless. There was no grain or dairy to cause the contents of the stomach to ferment. A smelly fart would draw predators. That would have led to extinction too.

        20. Our ancestors were mostly nomads. They had to be because a group in one location for long would soon over-hunt a location. To remain would mean to starve.

        21. Territories had to have been huge requiring log treks taking only what could be carried. So what they took had to be light, not 50 pound sacks of wheat in an era where there was no wheat or sacks.

        22. Going back to caves. Caves do not travel well. So nomadic people had to move out seasonally. Plus, caves don’t come with chimneys. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to understand that a fire in the open allowed for easier breathing than smokey caves. People fresh out of the trees would not have been all that comfortable squished into a cave when they had lots more room outside. But no doubt, caves were a good place to retreat in an emergency.

        23. Our ancestors living in trees then on the ground would have eaten a diet similar to monkeys. The difference between them and us had to be diet. We could not co-exist eating the exact same diet. It never happens with other species or one crowds out the others. So, the monkeys didn’t disappear but the four other species of hominids did. We must have eaten them out of house and home.

        24. Wars may have been the difference. What was the base difference though was simply aggression fueled by brain power. Our ability to out-think our direct competitors and our ability to bluff and lie made a difference too.

        25. Recently Fumblefingers directed me to an article about a family of Inuit who were discovered in Greenland. They had obviously had a serious sequence of events happen to them: separation from their main group led to no food, then getting caught away from shelter which led to starvation then freezing to death, assuming they weren’t murdered. In addition these people were apparently subsisting on salmon. Most Inuit did not eat salmon because it’s incomplete nutrition. You can’t live on fish alone. They knew that and this aspect of their diet is well documented.

        26. Age for the Inuit was influenced by factors that the rest of humanity did not have to endure. Cold, lack of fresh plant material for food, lack of sunlight for five months a year, nothing to make shelter out of that could be permanent, and the fact that they had to chew hides to make clothing. The significance of chewing hides meant that the women lost their teeth early. Chewing stiff hides instead of tanning them took a huge toll. Men hunted while the women chewed. Now most of them drink and/or do drugs and not much else apparently. Boredom is more of a killer than the weather. Arctic winters are grueling.

        27. None of that shortened their natural life spans though, in civilization, just like with fish or any other animal (and we are animals) their lives extend the same way and they achieve the same lengths of lives we do. Even so, they still face hazards we don’t. The weather is brutal. Their traditional diets are changing faster than they can change. They have the highest suicide rates in Canada.

        28. Our first farmers are now called Neolithic man. Their dental destruction thanks first to grain then dairy shows how horrible that era must have been. We have all been suffering ever since. Those people had no idea what was happening or why it was happening. Now I’m telling you why it was happening but no one wants to believe the physics or the chemistry. So that shows right there that modern man is no smarter than Neolithic or Paleolithic man.

        29.Going back to diet: once grain became a reliable source of food, the human biome became more acidic and open to fermentation in the stomach and intestinal tract. The first colds would have started, snoring and farting as well as constipation. Dental destruction is part of the fossil record and made famous by the Egyptians who apparently invented the Western Diet. They preserved their dental agonies for posterity in their tombs.

        30. Then we arrive at the mucus effect. Too bad none of you believe that. I’ll carry on with it on a different thread sometime soon.

    2. Yes, lots of evidence: https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/the-worst-mistake-in-the-history-of-the-human-race

      That human beings became markedly less healthy immediately following the adoption of agriculture, and did so independently at many different places and times across the globe, is settled fact in anthropology and not up for debate.

      Also, using life expectancy at birth as a proxy for hunter-gatherers’ overall health and chronic disease burden constitutes felony abuse of statistics.

    3. After Dr. Greger’s videos, for a broader and well referenced overview that’s easy reading and seems fair minded, you might take a look at e.g.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet “Adoption of the Paleolithic diet assumes that modern humans can reproduce the hunter-gatherer diet. Molecular biologist Marion Nestle argues that “knowledge of the relative proportions of animal and plant foods in the diets of early humans is circumstantial, incomplete, and debatable and that there are insufficient data to identify the composition of a genetically determined optimal diet. The evidence related to Paleolithic diets is best interpreted as supporting the idea that diets based largely on plant foods promote health and longevity, at least under conditions of food abundance and physical activity.”[38] Ideas about Paleolithic diet and nutrition are at best hypothetical.[39] ”

      It’s well known that diets with lots of processed foods, simple sugars, low in fiber, oils, deep fried foods, etc. along with a sedentary life style are extremely unhealthy. I think that’s the one thing Paleos and non-Paleos can agree on: eat whole foods. The WFPB view is to eat mostly plants (~at least 90-95% of calories), which means little saturated fat and animal protein (ignoring issues limited to smaller groups e.g. gluten intolerance, wheat sensitivity, etc, as common sense dictates).

      In my view, Paleos sometimes seem to confuse unhealthy diets (so-called SAD diets) with healthful WFPB diets that include foods they reject like legumes/beans and whole grains (as do many studies claiming carbs are bad for you). Without this conflation, their arguments have little support and their viewpoint is certainly not accepted by all experts (i.e. it is not established fact). Some of the discussion on this forum seems to make that mistake.

  15. My daughter has nephrotic syndrome. She’s been taking steroids for over a year now. We are following your advice on dieting with minor changes. I was just wondering if there’s any special food that can help her. Many thanks!

    1. Joe, I would like to see your suggestion carried farther… that is, do comparison dangers between many different types of cooking utensils.

      I seem to remember D R Greger mentioning that aluminum foil is a bad actor for cooking. I also remember years ago reading that Teflon is bad for us… and at that time there was a concern for ceramics from China and India as well as stainless steel from those two countries.

      I think the ceramics made now are safe to use, probably even from China and India but certainly from the U.S.

      And while I favor Stainless steel for water distillation (the water going in is neutral to base pH and the water doesn’t reach neutral to acid until it is converted from steam back into liquid) but for stove top cooking I favor the ceramic lined iron pots and pans.

  16. I prefer a plant-based style of eating but I have dealt with inflammatory hair loss for years now and eating in the AIP style assisted with calming said pain and inflammation almost immediately. Thing is, it’s too restrictive and I prefer carbs to meat. Nightshades seem to be something I’m reactive too but I miss oatmeal and soymilk and agave syrup. I’m NOT going to eat Oil-free completely sugar-free vegan because I hate the food! Why does AIP work and yet my old fairly healthy all-inclusive plant-based way of eating didn’t? This isn’t meant to be antagonistic; I really want to be plant-based again but I need to find a way that works. I don’t think meat or paleo is inherently a bad way of eating; I just don’t like it.

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