A Political Lesson on the Power of the Food Industry

A Political Lesson on the Power of the Food Industry
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The amazing story about what lobbying millions can do to shut down efforts to protect children.

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

There have been calls to ban the advertising of sugary cereals to children for nearly a half century, a product that Harvard nutrition professor Jean Mayer referred to as “sugar-coated nothings.” In a Senate hearing on nutrition education, he said, “Properly speaking, they ought to be called cereal-flavored candy, rather than sugar-covered cereals.”

The Senate committee “invited the major manufacturers of children’s cereals” to testify. And they initially said yes—until they heard what kinds of questions were going to be asked. “One cereal industry representative candidly admitted” why they decided to boycott the hearing: they simply didn’t “have persuasive answers” for why they’re trying to sell kids breakfast candy.

In the Mad Men age, before the consumer movement was in bloom, ad “company executives were more willing to talk frankly about the purpose of their ads and how they felt about aiming the ads at the ‘child market.’” A quote from an executive director of Kellogg’s ad firm: “Our primary goal is to sell products to children, not educate them. When you sell a woman a product and she goes into the store and finds your brand isn’t in stock, she will probably forget about it. But when you sell a kid on your product, if he can’t get it, he will throw himself in the floor, stamp his feet, and cry. You can’t get a reaction like that out of an adult.”

Sugary cereals are the #1 food advertised to kids. But not to worry, the industry will just self-regulate. The Children’s Food and Beverage Advertising Initiative was launched, in which all the big cereal companies pledged they would only market “healthier dietary choices” to kids. The candy industry signed on, too. How did that go? They pledge not to advertise to kids, yet after the initiative went into effect, kids actually saw more candy ads. Take Hershey, for example—they doubled their advertising to children, while at the same time pledging not to.

The cereal companies got to decide for themselves “their own definitions of ‘healthier dietary choices.'” So, that should give us a sense of how serious they are at protecting children. They chose “Froot Loops or Reese’s Peanut Butter Puffs, consisting of up to 44 percent sugar by weight”—those are what they classified as “healthier dietary choices.” What are their unhealthy choices? Turns out what they did is basically just set the limit based more on what they were already selling, than what might be “best for children.”

Now they’ve since revised that down to allow only cereals that are 38 percent sugar by weight. But, even if they were only a third sugar, that means kids are effectively eating “one spoonful of sugar in every three spoons of cereal”—not exactly a healthier dietary choice.

The Federal Trade Commission tried stepping in back in 1978, but the industry poured in so many millions of lobbying might that Congress basically threatened to yank the entire agency’s funding should they mess with Big Cereal, demonstrating just “how powerful market forces are compared to those that can be mobilized on behalf of children.” The political “post-traumatic stress induced by the aggressive attacks on the FTC led to a 25-year hiatus in federal efforts to rein in food marketing aimed at children.” But, finally, enter the Interagency Working Group, “voluntary principles…designed to encourage stronger and more meaningful self-regulation,” proposed by the Federal Trade Commission, CDC, FDA, and USDA, with the radical suggestion of not marketing children cereals that are over 26 percent pure sugar.

Not a single one of the top ten breakfast cereals marketed to children would meet that standard. General Mills shot back that such proposed nutrition standards were “arbitrary, capricious, and fundamentally flawed.” No surprise, since literally every single cereal they market wouldn’t make the cut. To suggest voluntary standards would “unconstitutionally” violate their right to free speech under the First Amendment—to which the FTC basically said: uh, let me get you a dictionary. Voluntary. How could suggesting voluntary guidelines violate the constitution? That’s how freaked out the industry is, though, at even the notion of meaningful guidelines. One grocer’s association called the proposed nutrition principles the “most bizarre and unconscionable” they had ever seen.

So, what happened? Again, agency funding was jeopardized; and so, the FTC called the interagency proposal off.

“At every level of government, the food and beverage industries won fight after fight,” never losing “a significant political battle” in the United States. “We just got beat,” one of the child advocacy organizations said. “Money wins.” And it took lots of money—$175 million of Big Food lobbying—but apparently, enough to buy the White House’s silence as the interagency proposal got killed off. As one Obama advisor put it, “You can tell someone to eat less fat, consume more fiber, more fruits and vegetables, and less sugar. But if you start naming foods, you cross the line.”

“I’m upset with the White House,” the chair of the Senate Health Committee said. “They went wobbly in the knees. When it comes to kids’ health, they shouldn’t go wobbly in the knees.”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Pictures of Money via flickr. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

There have been calls to ban the advertising of sugary cereals to children for nearly a half century, a product that Harvard nutrition professor Jean Mayer referred to as “sugar-coated nothings.” In a Senate hearing on nutrition education, he said, “Properly speaking, they ought to be called cereal-flavored candy, rather than sugar-covered cereals.”

The Senate committee “invited the major manufacturers of children’s cereals” to testify. And they initially said yes—until they heard what kinds of questions were going to be asked. “One cereal industry representative candidly admitted” why they decided to boycott the hearing: they simply didn’t “have persuasive answers” for why they’re trying to sell kids breakfast candy.

In the Mad Men age, before the consumer movement was in bloom, ad “company executives were more willing to talk frankly about the purpose of their ads and how they felt about aiming the ads at the ‘child market.’” A quote from an executive director of Kellogg’s ad firm: “Our primary goal is to sell products to children, not educate them. When you sell a woman a product and she goes into the store and finds your brand isn’t in stock, she will probably forget about it. But when you sell a kid on your product, if he can’t get it, he will throw himself in the floor, stamp his feet, and cry. You can’t get a reaction like that out of an adult.”

Sugary cereals are the #1 food advertised to kids. But not to worry, the industry will just self-regulate. The Children’s Food and Beverage Advertising Initiative was launched, in which all the big cereal companies pledged they would only market “healthier dietary choices” to kids. The candy industry signed on, too. How did that go? They pledge not to advertise to kids, yet after the initiative went into effect, kids actually saw more candy ads. Take Hershey, for example—they doubled their advertising to children, while at the same time pledging not to.

The cereal companies got to decide for themselves “their own definitions of ‘healthier dietary choices.'” So, that should give us a sense of how serious they are at protecting children. They chose “Froot Loops or Reese’s Peanut Butter Puffs, consisting of up to 44 percent sugar by weight”—those are what they classified as “healthier dietary choices.” What are their unhealthy choices? Turns out what they did is basically just set the limit based more on what they were already selling, than what might be “best for children.”

Now they’ve since revised that down to allow only cereals that are 38 percent sugar by weight. But, even if they were only a third sugar, that means kids are effectively eating “one spoonful of sugar in every three spoons of cereal”—not exactly a healthier dietary choice.

The Federal Trade Commission tried stepping in back in 1978, but the industry poured in so many millions of lobbying might that Congress basically threatened to yank the entire agency’s funding should they mess with Big Cereal, demonstrating just “how powerful market forces are compared to those that can be mobilized on behalf of children.” The political “post-traumatic stress induced by the aggressive attacks on the FTC led to a 25-year hiatus in federal efforts to rein in food marketing aimed at children.” But, finally, enter the Interagency Working Group, “voluntary principles…designed to encourage stronger and more meaningful self-regulation,” proposed by the Federal Trade Commission, CDC, FDA, and USDA, with the radical suggestion of not marketing children cereals that are over 26 percent pure sugar.

Not a single one of the top ten breakfast cereals marketed to children would meet that standard. General Mills shot back that such proposed nutrition standards were “arbitrary, capricious, and fundamentally flawed.” No surprise, since literally every single cereal they market wouldn’t make the cut. To suggest voluntary standards would “unconstitutionally” violate their right to free speech under the First Amendment—to which the FTC basically said: uh, let me get you a dictionary. Voluntary. How could suggesting voluntary guidelines violate the constitution? That’s how freaked out the industry is, though, at even the notion of meaningful guidelines. One grocer’s association called the proposed nutrition principles the “most bizarre and unconscionable” they had ever seen.

So, what happened? Again, agency funding was jeopardized; and so, the FTC called the interagency proposal off.

“At every level of government, the food and beverage industries won fight after fight,” never losing “a significant political battle” in the United States. “We just got beat,” one of the child advocacy organizations said. “Money wins.” And it took lots of money—$175 million of Big Food lobbying—but apparently, enough to buy the White House’s silence as the interagency proposal got killed off. As one Obama advisor put it, “You can tell someone to eat less fat, consume more fiber, more fruits and vegetables, and less sugar. But if you start naming foods, you cross the line.”

“I’m upset with the White House,” the chair of the Senate Health Committee said. “They went wobbly in the knees. When it comes to kids’ health, they shouldn’t go wobbly in the knees.”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Pictures of Money via flickr. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Doctor's Note

I’m all in favor of Taking Personal Responsibility for Your Health, but the strong-arm tobacco-style tactics of the multi-trillion dollar food industry are contributing to the deaths of an estimated 14 million people every year.

I’ve talked about this before in videos such as:

And specifically about sugar in Sugar Industry Attempts to Manipulate the Science.

This is part of an ongoing series I’m creating about breakfast cereals, and is a follow-up to The Worst Food for Tooth Decay. Are there any healthy cereals? A few make the cut. See The Five-to-One Fiber Rule.

Keep your eyes out for the next sugar video, coming out in a few weeks: How to Stop Tooth Decay.

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

193 responses to “A Political Lesson on the Power of the Food Industry

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  1. Be careful about giving government the right to dictate what food you can, or can’t buy. That’s a very dangerous path to take (assuming you believe in liberty, free choice, and that sort of thing.) It’s up to the adults in the room to get a little education and pick the right foods for their family. I can just hear the whiny adults now crying about how hard it is to get this simple education and how can they possibly control what their equally-whiny kids eat ?!!

    1. Any food education is complained about by parents because more often than not it tells their kids that the awful diet their family eats is unhealthy. And most American diets are unhealthy. Yet rather than addressing the issue, family after family goes into flinging themselves to the ground blaming the schools and the government for ANY telling their children to eat healthier. They are ENTITLED to Little Debbie and Mountain Dew as a meal.

      1. Commercial speech may be protected to some degree, but as far as I know you are not allowed to lie in advertising, and we have precedent with tobacco and alcohol with regulating when and where it can occur. I have no problem with strong government watchdog agencies fighting for the consumer. Right now we have the opposite, they fight for corporations and against consumers.

        1. “I have no problem with strong government watchdog agencies fighting for the consumer. Right now we have the opposite, they fight for corporations and against consumers.”

          EXACTLY.

    2. Be careful about giving government the right to dictate what food you can, or can’t buy.
      —————————————————————————————————————–
      Agreed, but this is about what foods you can market via advertising… to children. Expecting parents who grew up seeing the sugar bomb ads to suddenly “get religion” against those type ads against their own children is a bridge too far in my thinking.

      There once was a ban on liquor ads in certain media but even that has apparently been lobbied out of existence.

    3. Chuck, “the adults in the room” have little say in what they eat. It’s already decreed by the government, led by big business. Without a functioning knowledge of nutrition, the adults in the room eat the feed processed for them without much question. They believe mass quantities of animal flesh is needed to get enough “high-quality protein.” Our government allows, even supports, big business in blurring any positive nutritional news. Instead, we have Rachael Ray declaring, “My husband loves bacon with his sausage gravy & biscuits.” Our population is doomed to eat unhealthily until the government stops valuing jobs over health.

      1. All very well said, Larry. But also it should be mentioned that the government goes further in actually subsidizing meat and dairy.

      2. Adults choose convenience, and often cost, over health. They also don’t want to hear their kids whine. It’s easier to be ignorant than to be healthy, there is less effort involved.

    4. Chuck, It’s ultimately the marketplace, consumers choices, that regulate industry. Locally, at least, there are lots of good organic products available. Even the local supermarket and Costco have great organic produce. Eating well has never been easier, and prices are also coming down on healthier choices. My local markets have, for example, an array of types of lentils, quinoa, etc.
      Grocery stores will stock what we buy, it’s really that simple.
      The place for government can be education, but Not regulation!

      1. I would amend my last sentence to say that I’m referring to processed, packaged foods. I do believe we need regulation of pesticides, factory farms etc.

    5. Yes, those at the receiving end of the lobbying dollars that are the real danger. giant “bad” corporations generally fall under their own weight in a free economy, but their cronies in government use regulatory muscle to keep them artificially standing long after their “use by” date. The relationship between the lobbying industries and the lobbied politicians is one of mutual corruption. Freedom is always the best way to solve any social problem.

      1. Sorry but this is ideological wishful thinking.

        History shows us that left to the free market, entire industries become captive to monopolies or cartels and the public suffers. And even before that, citizens’ health will take a very distant second place to the pursuit of profit. Government regulation has saved the lives and health of countless Americans. The pursuit of profit is the reason why Big Business (and Little Business) so vehemently opposes regulation and assiduously promotes the myth of the perfection of the free market…… and yet strangely never ever refers to the history of what actually occurred when markets were much freer than today and government regulation was less or non-existent

        https://www.history.com/news/food-fraud-a-brief-history-of-the-adulteration-of-food
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_antitrust_law

    6. Thanks for this most enlightening video about sugar in cereals. I look forward to your future videos on Childhood tooth decay. I am in complete agreement that this candy for breakfast is one of the most important causes of childhood tooth decay.

      Although I am wary of government censorship and over- reach, I am also aware that one of the legitimate duties of government is protection of its’ citizens from harm. The people that are harming the public bought off the government so they could continue to harm for profit.

      This breakfast candy is undoubtedly one of the most prominent causes of childhood tooth decay resulting in a lifetime of future dental problems for many. Thank you Dr. Greger for supplying the information and helping protect our kids from harm. I look forward to your future videos exposing the harm caused by the breakfast candies to children.

      I’m amazed that anyone can try to criticize this excellent work – truly amazed. Perhaps someone can enlighten me concerning the genesis of criticism of a video such as this.
      Larry

    7. Well perhaps it appears you have languished, month after month listening to whiny terrible 2 and 3 yr olds, as I languished, and now I unequivocally the cause of their long, daily whininess and hyperactivity. My children were born in 1980 and 1983.

    8. Chuck R. this has literally nothing to do with government dictating what we can or can’t buy, you should watch it again. It’s quite the opposite of what you’re describing–the video is demonstrating how corruption in big business and politics is, in fact, presently dictating what we can and can’t REPORT publicly. The public and organizations are the ones who are being dictated here and are unable to report or suggest the truth when it interferes with big business and lobbying.

      So, if you’re arguing free choice and that sort of thing, you should be incredibly offended by this kind of oppression.

      Meanwhile, DIDN’T the government during the Obama administration put certain bans or talk about putting certain bans on selling large sizes of soda or something? I think I remember something like that. Seems a lot more restrictive than simply giving people accurate information about these things which is not a restrictive act at all.

      1. “If banning the advertising of unhealthy foods to children is ‘giving government the right to dictate what food you can, or can’t buy’”

        And you would also have to be able to apply that thinking to other things, such as banning tobacco ads

    1. There is a big difference between persuading and dictating. The food companies attempt to persuade us what to buy. The government seeks to dictate what we buy.

      1. How do you call it persuasion when all the breakfast cereals are loaded with sugar and aimed at children on TV. The only way to beat that is to ban Saturday morning TV. Good luck with that if you live in an apartment. You’d soon be pitching your 4 year old over the balcony to get some peace in a jail cell.

      2. Yeah stopping people buying dangerous foods and drugs is such a terribel thing. it reduces profits for heaven’s sake!

        1. “Yeah stopping people buying dangerous foods and drugs is such a terribel thing. it reduces profits for heaven’s sake!”

          That is exactly the it; those are the types who would argue this.

      3. And the scientists and other qualified persons are the ones being oppressed as they’re threatened for reporting the facts. It’s really simple stuff. Anyone who wants to argue it is either confused or has some kind of investment in the current set up either a literal investment in some way or invested with their own ideology which would be the ideology very similar to the present libertarian, from my current understanding.

  2. We’re finally finding out how Deep the Deep State really is. I think it was President Eisenhower back in the 1950’s who gave us the first modern warning of how close the Globalist multi-national corporations were working with the politicians of both political partys to “shape” the way people think. And the mainstream media and TV were the perfect tool to carry out their agenda. Then the Internet came along and disrupted their grand plans … people could finally get access to real news and easily share information amongst themselves! I dread the day when free speech is squelched on the Internet.

    1. Darwin Galt, the problem isn’t the deep state, the problem are the deep idiots. Most people on the internet believe fruits are poison and nutritionfacts is full of state-sponsored vegan propganda. Don’t be an idiot yourself and stop spreading bullshit here.

      1. ZetaBeta, It sounds like you’re one of those people who would like to censor opposing view!

        I have no idea why you seem to think most visitors who visit this site believe it is “state-sponsored propaganda”. I can only speak for myself, but I have been a fan of this site for many years because it’s one of the few sites based on evidence rather than “sales” pitches. And I think it’s the big corporations who would like to see this NF website cease to exist.

      2. ZetaBeta,

        When you say sentences like, “Most people on the internet” you are doing a process perhaps just as inaccurate and inexact as what you are accusing Darwin of doing and even if your sentence is true, who is behind the propaganda on the internet, which is often strongly coming against things like fruit or Vegan, as examples. There is money at stake is why people are trying to confuse people and brainwash them even on the internet. To think that all of the “idiots” just came up with those thoughts on their own may be a flaw in logic.

        1. Zeta,

          Also, even if “most people on the internet are idiots” was true, certainly, you can give Darwin the point that there might ALSO be people making billions of dollars using influence in inappropriate ways who are trying to control everybody the can manage to figure out how to control.

  3. It’s getting harder and harder to find (adult) processed cereals that aren’t… “adulterated” might be a good word… with refined sugar or laced with “natural flavors.” Products you once trusted as wholesome eventually get bought out by the mega conglomerates, at which point you just aren’t sure if you can trust them anymore.

    Kashi and Naked Bear are Kellogg’s products now. Cascadian Farms went to General Mills back in 2000. Even Annie’s Homegrown organic products will be swept under the General Mills umbrella shortly, if not a done deal already. Never really cared for the taste of Weetabix biscuits. Nature’s Path cereals literally have more air than product in the packaging. Uncle Sam’s is okay, but it has whole flax seeds in it. Hmmm… maybe if they’d just grind them up I might give it a try again. Barbara’s Bakery is a subsidiary of The Weetabix Food Co., headquartered in Burton Latimer, United Kingdom. I like the UK – they’re all so civilized on that side of the pond, you know. And at least according to the nutrition data on the boxes, some Barbara’s cereals (like shredded wheat) seem to be a pretty good deal. Does anyone else have a preference? I’d like to hear.

    Very challenging. My current breakfast regimen is O-Organics Old Fashioned Rolled Oats, walnuts, a big pile of berries, spices, and almond milk – substantial and non-toxic. It would be nice if I could get a low sugar, non-flavored product at the farmers market grocers… like some of those grassroots brands that grew out of the post-hippie culture back in the last century. We all trust organic hippies, don’t we?

    1. Dr Cobalt,

      I can’t help you. My breakfast tends to be a Soy Green Tea Latte. When I tried to eat breakfast, it was steel cut oatmeal with walnuts, flaxseed and a few spices, sometimes cacao. I never threw blueberries in.

      I bought all the ingredients for Dr. Greger’s breakfast bowl, but I never made it. Maybe someday.

      My circadian rhythms are so far off that I am even off seasonally in food cravings. I am trying to keep eating the fresh produce through the Summer this year to see if that helps me get seasonally back in alignment. It is July, so I only have a few months to go and then I will go back to things like chili and rice and beans.

      I actually don’t lose any weight on vegetables. I might even gain a tiny bit and I am not sure why. Someday, I might need to really look carefully at that. Right now, I am just wanting to keep the taste buds toward the vegetables and berries and I am trying to get as many of the phytonutrients and as much food synergy as possible.

      It is a little discouraging that I am eating the biggest bowl of kale and arugula and spinach and cruciferous veggies and the only fruit I am really eating right now are berries and pomegranate seeds and I tried lowering my guacamole and I am looking at if I eat too much hummus. Either way, I saw this couple who lost hundreds of pounds and they are eating vegan queso, which I am not. They are eating nut butter, which I am not. I am not eating oils. I am not doing smoothies and only rarely do juices.

      Technically, I am doing intermittent fasting, by skipping breakfast, which might be making things worse, but I am back to not sleeping as much so it is harder to get up and eat.

      I know that not getting sleep and eating the wrong time of day is going to be a big deal.

      Anyway, that doesn’t matter. I am still happy with Whole Food Plant-Based. I just happened to watch them and both of them lost more than 100 pounds in a year and I didn’t lose all that much in a year and a half, even adjusting more and more in the direction.

      Eventually, I will either have to talk to someone like Dr. Lisle who will tell me to get off the nuts and avocado or I will pretend to talk to Dr. Fuhrman and he will say, “You need to do more calorie restriction of some sort.” Or I will read Dr. Greger’s book and something will help me.

      Or it will be that I have to up my exercise, which is probably true.

      1. On the Diet Wars end, none of my Keto friends or family members are losing weight either and that at least helps there not to be any peer pressure. I did lose some, but closer to 17 pounds over the course of a year and I periodically gain some of those back.

        They haven’t lost that much, but many of them have Diabetes and are on a lot of meds.

        1. I will say that I haven’t been eating any potatoes, sweet potatoes, pasta, grains, in so long. Not even oatmeal, so maybe I need something from those categories. Not sure.

          So, if I try Starch Solution, it will be such a different diet.

          My mind is thinking someday I might end up something like Starch Solution – with more things like potatoes in the fall. Move toward beans and lentils in the Winter. With high nutrition in the Spring and Summer.

          Not sure.

          1. I haven’t had rice since March. I have only had Ezekiel bread once since then and it was a Boca Burger at a Memorial Day cookout.

      2. Deb, on circadian rhythm, read Dr. Matthew Walker’s book, ‘Why We Sleep’. He’s also on a podcast with Dr, Rhonda Patrick.
        His research shows that a certain percent of people have a different inborn circadian rhythm. (I read that German scientists can even know what type from looking at skin cells.)
        Even in the past ‘shift workers’, on guard at night, were necessary to protect the group. I found his research interesting as both my husband and I, and 3 of our 4 children are ‘night people’ by nature. Many of my colleagues are also.
        We all tend to skip breakfast, and get hungry only later in the day.
        Dr. David Sinclair says eating only late in the day is his pattern also.

        1. and get hungry only later in the day.
          Dr. David Sinclair says eating only late in the day is his pattern also.
          ——————————————————————————————-
          Saw that as well. I took note that he says we need to be hungry sometime during a day. This has gone against my snacking during a day. But I find if I am busy to the point of being engrossed, like him, I forget to eat.

          1. My husband used to say, “She never misses a meal.” Too true! The three squares a day are more than enough for me.

        2. Marilyn,

          Yes, my brother and sister-in-law and I are night people by nature and, yes, when I was going to church, there was always an all-night prayer meeting to go to. When I was caretaking, I didn’t even struggle with it. Not once.

          It was never a problem staying up to 4 or 4:30 in the morning. Getting up for work the next day, that was sometimes the problem.

    2. Just take a quarter cup of raw buckwheat groats, a quarter cup of goji berries, and a 1/8 cup of cocao nibs and soak them overnight. Add some stevia if desired and some fruit like blueberries. Presto! A healthy breakfast.

    3. dr cobalt: I looked through all of the many packaged breakfast cereals at WalMart and only two didn’t have added sugar. Grape Nuts and Shredded Wheat. I don’t remember any others having sugar as the third ingredient. All others had sugar as the first or second ingredient IIRC. That was a number of years ago.

      My breakfast: 1/2 cup organic rolled oats, 1/2 cup cooked black beans, 1/2 cup canned pumpkin, in the microwave for 3 minutes. 1 tbsp raw buckwheat grouts, 1 tsp cacao nibs, 1 tbsp ground flax, fresh (when in season in my backyard) or dried mint leaves, 1/2 cup raisins, 1/2 cup unsweetened organic soymilk.

      Finish off with 1 orange, 1/4 lemon, 1/4 lime and 1/2 cup cranberries blended with water. 3 cups coffee.

      1. Wow, great ideas. Who’d-a-thought you could put oats, black beans, and pumpkin together? I see the similarity with Brent’s buckwheat version. I’ll write them both down.

      2. In my pre- NF.org days I used to eat Post Shredded Wheat. There was a time when they preserved them with Vit E. But later they switched to BHT.

        That’s a deal breaker for me.

        1. I ate both Grape Nuts and shredded Wheat pre NF. That was after I decided to eliminate sugar. Before that I ate raisin bran IIRC. Was fed the worst of all in the video as a kid. Can’t imagine what my mother was thinking.

          AFAIK, BHA and BHT are molecules that stop free radical chain reactions. Fed to rats in massive quantities, their lives are extended several fold.

          1. I can’t remember if Grape Nuts made the bad list, too.

            I actually did like them.

            They were part of some of my “dieting youth” days and that was the only cereal where I actually felt full after eating it.

            Probably because it took forever and a day to chew it.

        2. There was a time when they preserved them with Vit E. But later they switched to BHT.
          ——————————————————————————————————————
          DrC, your comment led to remembering something similar I read…

          WARNING! Though the link below is a short read, the subject is one that inquiring minds might be interested in and even though it is about Vitamin C, it has absolutely nothing directly related to food. ‘-)

          https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-07/tau-vci070919.php

    4. No we absolutely do not. Long hair and a yen for sunflowers seeds a and grass did not a nutritionist make.
      If you want a great breakfast, add your ingredients to a salad and eat that. It didn’t hurt our Paleo ancestors 200,000 years ago. You know that or you would not be here today.

      1. John, meat & dairy has always hurt our ancestors. Their remains give up much information about the diseases they had during pre-recorded history. They had the same meat & dairy diseases we have today.

        1. Sider, you aren’t looking far enough back in history. You are talking Neolithic. I’m talking real Paleolithic, not what Cordain mistakenly called Paleolithic. Before grain, Homo Sapiens were bigger, much stronger with perfect teeth. That is more than 14,000 years ago. You are talking less than 14,000 years ago after we started eating whole grain and getting sick, then drinking milk and eating cheese and getting even sicker. Even women in the Paleolithic were stronger than the strongest men alive today. That’s what the bones tell us. The advent of grain was the advent of gum disease and the introduction of most degenerative diseases.

          Paleo man mostly ate a plant based diet though the farther northern populations were more meat to totally meat. But then that meat included organ meats and intestinal jam. The fossil record we have from that time is mostly of sick people, injured people and murdered people found in caves (hospitals of the day). Most of those people would not have lived in caves. There weren’t enough caves to go around.

          Think about this: Homo Sapiens lived for 300,000 years formed as we are now. Don’t you think after 300,000 years our ancestors knew what and how to eat without getting sick? The only sick people were parasitic, injured or bitten or rubbed noxious plants. Today Homo Sapiens are the sickest species that has ever lived. We are a parody of Paleo man thanks mostly to dairy and grain.

          If Paleo man was as sickly as you seem to think we would have become extinct long before we learned to farm grain or invent cows.

          14,000 years have passed since we domesticated wheat. 9,000 years have passed since we invented our first real GMO – the cow. In those 14,000 years the brilliant modern man has managed to create more food borne diseases than ever existed (most of that has only taken about 30 years), we are on the brink of ceding our dominance to cancer as the dominant life form with ourselves as the hosts. Obesity, diabetes and heart disease are all post grain introduction. Paleo man could teach us a lot about eating and staying healthy in a much harsher world that we have today. In skins too.

          Those short life spans you read about are based on averages in times where child predation and fatal injuries were very high and they stayed that way right into the 20th century. That does not mean the adults were short lived or sick. The bone records we have are the patients and the murder victims. If you had ever lived in the wilderness or known any aboriginals they’d soon tell you it takes a lot of knowledge to stay alive without cities and doctors. It takes a lot longer than 25 years to amass that knowledge and it takes a number of elderly people to keep the records. All the knowledge was retained mentally. One elder can’t do it. It takes the whole tribe living a long time to last 300,000 years. That is a formidable time span our version of Homo Sapiens has no hope of equalling. For one thing, we are using up our natural resources too quickly. Paleo man was much smarter than that. We are abject morons by comparison.

          Discovering how to farm was an amazing event, the single most important event in human history. But it was also our biggest disaster and dairy was our next disaster. We have not even begun to think about how to recover from those disasters yet. You know a that because Dr. Greger is still preaching the benefits of whole grains. If whole grains were so great, Paleo man instead of showing no evidence of having eaten them would show that in abundance. But that’s not what happened. Neolithic man, the post grain man embarked on grain legumes too. Didn’t help. He still got shorter, weaker and sicker.

          None of this is rocket science but it is pretty easy to understand. Especially when you take the time to consider that the plants we didn’t domesticate that we did eat still exist and grow all over the place. We call them weeds. We don’t eat them, we spray them and kill them to so we can eat stuff we didn’t evolve to eat. Nobody evolved to eat grain. We are not rodents. We cannot fully metabolize grain or dairy products. No animal on earth can eat grain and fully metabolize it and walk away. Not even rodents. Rodents cannot metabolize grain without eating it twice. They eat it, shit it out then eat it again. Without eating it again, they literally starve to death or become very sickly. We are very sickly. Do you get the connection? We don’t eat our own shit. We are convinced we don’t like the taste.

          Why do you suppose we don’t like the taste of our own shit if we were really grain eaters? We don’t like the taste of shit because we as a species didn’t evolve eating our own shit. We eat too much meat to be able to do that safely. Entry level grain eating requires that you either eat shit or chew cud. Horses don’t eat oats in the wild. They are fed oats by humans who enjoy paying vet bills. Cows don’t eat grain either but we feed them grain. When we buy dairy and beef we are paying not only for the meat and ice cream, we are also paying the vet bills. Cows can only eat grass safely, Corn was never on their menu. Mind you, cow guts isn’t cow feed either but we did that too. The results were more spectacular than boring old corn.

          Pigs are omnivorous. Like us. They eat everything. They are full of parasites. Some religious groups refuse to eat pigs saying they are dirty animals. We are also dirty animals.

          We are the only species that makes itself constipated. We are the only species that makes other species constipated. Constipation means you are not eating what you evolved to eat.

          Grain makes people constipated, fibre or no fibre.

          The benefit of eating whole grain over refined grain is between 17 and 23%. Big hairy deal. The other approximately 80% receive no benefit at all and suffer constipation and 55 other degenerative diseases as well. Are you good with that? If you are you are in that 20% +/- who benefits. Lucky you. I think people eating grain are delusional.

          Wild meat doesn’t hurt anyone. We don’t eat wild meat. We eat sick meat from sick domestic animals. As a former taxidermist and food processor who has dissected way more than his share of beef hearts I can tell you I know a lot more about some aspects of meat in general and hearts particularly than doctors do because they cannot legally do to hearts what I did to them to make my products. Wild meat has zero fat. The organs are exceptionally high in all the necessary nutrients and have no toxins or endotoxins resident as body burdens that all domestic animals do. Domestic animals are polluted by comparison as well as being unfit.

          1. ” If whole grains were so great, Paleo man instead of showing no evidence of having eaten them would show that in abundance. But that’s not what happened.”

            Your claims are fantasy John. Or ‘delusional’ in your terms. Why did Neolithic humans begin growing grains? Because Paleolithic humans had long been eating them and they were known to be an important (Paleolithic) food source, thty’s why.

            ‘The consumption of wild cereals among prehistoric hunters and gatherers appears to be far more ancient than previously thought, according to an archaeologist who has found the oldest example of extensive reliance on cereal and root staples in the diet of early Homo sapiens more than 100,000 years ago.’
            https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091217141312.htm

            ‘Three grinding stones from Shizitan Locality 14 (ca. 23,000–19,500 calendar years before present) in the middle Yellow River region were subjected to usewear and residue analyses to investigate human adaptation during the last glacial maximum (LGM) period, when resources were generally scarce and plant foods may have become increasingly important in the human diet. The results show that these tools were used to process various plants, including Triticeae and Paniceae grasses, Vigna beans, Dioscorea opposita yam, and Trichosanthes kirilowii snakegourd roots. Tubers were important food resources for Paleolithic hunter–gatherers, and Paniceae grasses were exploited about 12,000 y before their domestication. The long tradition of intensive exploitation of certain types of flora helped Paleolithic people understand the properties of these plants, including their medicinal uses, and eventually led to the plants’ domestication. ‘
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3619325/

            1. Nice try Tom. I agree that use of grains must have predated domestication of wheat possibly by hundreds of thousands of years. But so far the fossilized dental record does not show that. In the absence of dental care, regular abuse of your mouth with grain leaves dental wreckage that is unmistakable. The earliest record I know about is in The Pigeon Cave in Morocco. Dating at between 12 and 15,000 years ago 54 fossilized humans were found in that cave. All but three of them apparently died of their dental issues related directly not to grain consumption but to acorn consumption. Acorns and grain have something in common. Once mixed with saliva, they become that form of paste you mentioned in a past post when you objected to my translation of gluten from the Latin. The other three may have suffered snake bites. Pretty common in Africa at any time in history.

              Since Morocco even then was a dry place, the people there probably didn’t rinse their mouths as often as they should have. Even so, their state of excessive decay could not have been that common since we’re only talking 54 people over a span of 2,500 years. Most of them were probably there with any family or friends who could stand to be near them since they were probably pretty vocal near the end. In that state, eating would have been excruciating and water the only thing keeping them alive for an extended period.Those who suffered most for this inattention to detail died in this cave which was probably being used a combination hospital/sanatorium/nut house. Caves were the best place to put people suffering some sort of disability that would otherwise endanger the entire community due to the moaning, groaning and eventual screams.

              Consuming grain without a way to cook it since there were no pots, carrying it around in sufficient quantities without baskets would have been equally tough and harvesting it with your fingers would have been a monumental waste of time unless there was absolutely nothing else to eat. Yes they could have carried finger picked grain in skin bags. But filling those skin bags would have taken hours and hours before you’d have enough to feed a community a mouthful.

              I actually tried that as a kid several times when out for the day in the woods and fields and swamps near my house when I’d neglected to bring anything with me. Hypoglycemia makes you eat whatever is available. So I chowed down on grass and grass seeds. The net result of that was that while it satisfied me from the point of view I was fooling myself into thinking I was eating something useful, the reality was that it did nothing to change the fact that I was hungry. I didn’t chew the seed much because they weren’t big enough for my teeth to make much of an impressing and they were hard to swallow without water. Wheat in those days before genetic manipulation couldn’t have been much better. Uncooked wheat no matter how crushed up would not have amounted to much as a dietary supplement. Too much work, too little return.

              After that my friends and I took potatoes with us and cooked them in a cave. Yes we had an actual rock cave big enough for four of us to sit around a fire. It even had a natural chimney. It’s no longer accessible. Local authorities blocked it up.

            2. The studies you referred to did show that grain processing was a practice in certain areas. But no dental records so far. That would be interesting. Also a comparison between the height of these people versus people not using grain. In China, and throughout Oriental Asia, people were short. Maybe grain consumption with a minimum of meat explains it. These people appeared to exist in a state of near famine for extended periods of time. I would say that for these people, despite not having intentionally planted grain, they were nonetheless living a Neolithic lifestyle that we know shortened their stature compared with Europeans. Then when you look at the Inuit who eventually descended from these people, they went from grain/plant based to totally meat based. What did not change was their height. So a balanced diet of plant and meat must be key to optimum height.

              The human migration over the land bridge split two ways, one group stayed north and the other headed south. Of those who headed south, meat was part of their diet and their height increased. What didn’t change much was their facial features. So Orientals, Inuit and Aboriginals of continental North America are all related. Once into the jungles of Central and South America, height was reduced once more but the oriental features remained. Diet constraints had to have been a factor since the same thing happened in Africa with the pygmies. In other words, some forms of grain might have been essential to height, but only if the quantities were low enough not to cause debilitating dental issues.

      2. “It didn’t hurt our Paleo ancestors 200,000 years ago. You know that or you would not be here today.”

        John, you are incorrect. Our Paleo ancestors did not live long lives at all. They died very young which is why they reproduced very young to ensure survival of the species—THAT is why we are here. While calories vs. famine will always win out in the short term—making twinkies arguably count as food—that says nothing about the detrimental things these things do to our human bodies. Certainly the animal products did harm our Paleo ancestors in the ways we now understand what meat consumption does to our bodies, but I doubt they lived long enough to suffer any consequences.

    5. dr cobalt, why even try to find packaged cereal? There are so many choices in whole foods! Why pass up the opportunity to fit something really nourishing in your body to start the day?

      1. I don’t know what these other choices are, Marilyn. When one thinks of breakfast one usually thinks of cereal, fruit, or animal products. Please give me some ideas of whole food breakfast choices. I am lazy and don’t want to spend 30 minutes making breakfast burritos or sweet potato hash. I like French toast, but not for busy weekdays – takes too long. That leaves a grain-type cereal bowl. I have 2 or 3 recipes that I use from Dr. G’s cookbook. But, as sue laments below about overindulgence in oatmeal, it gets a bit tedious after a while, and one begins looking for a packaged product.

        1. dr cobalt, you can eat the same things you might eat for lunch or supper.
          Leftovers work, a salad made the night before with no dressing, (add dressing just before eating), hummus and veggies, nuts or beans with fruit. An already made black bean burger on toast is quick and easy. Can do any sandwich on good bread with a piece of fruit.
          I like almond or peanut butter on Dave’s killer bread with a grapefruit or orange. Might have a green salad with walnuts or beans and tortillas warmed in the toaster. Just some ideas.
          Hope you find something easy and enjoyable. :)

          1. Marilyn

            I doubt the dressing is necessary. There is plenty of fat in nuts, beans, oatmeal and hummus (hummus is hardly a whole food though) for example to aid nutrient absorption. Not to mention tje fact that the body makes most of the fat it needs anyway.

            1. Tom, I realize some people need to seriously limit all fats in their diet due to heart disease. But this isn’t necessary, or beneficial for many others. Fat in a meal slows down absorption of carbohydrates leading to better blood glucose control. Active people need to get calories somewhere and we now know that too much protein is harmful. The brain needs healthy fats. Also many nutrients in vegetables are not absorbed without fat. Yes, nuts have fat. Soybeans do also. But other beans have minimal amounts ( typically 1gram per serving) or none. Even Dr. Greger has salad dressing recipes. You can make your own hummus. No different than putting anything else in a food processor.

              The human body is not capable of making fat. It is essential to get some fat in the diet.

              https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/important-nutrients-know-proteins-carbohydrates-and-fats
              Just one article of many.

                  1. That’s not what you said. And you don’t need essential fatty acids to absorb the nutients from salad. Do you have some evidence to the contrary?

                    1. But you do need fat to absorb many of the nutrients in salads as we need to have some fat with our meals in order to absorb the fat soluble nutrients, there’s multiple videos on this site highlighting that so I’m not really sure what you’re saying, are you just saying any fat would do and they don’t need to be EFA’s?

          2. Thanks, Marilyn. I’ll keep thinking about alternatives. We’re all creatures of habit; I’ve been eating raw rolled oats and granola since I was a teenager. My brothers used to call it “horse food.” So it’s not easy for me to think outside the box when it comes to breakfast fare. But variety would be healthier too.

            Maybe one of Dr. G’s smoothie recipes in the back of his cookbook? That would be a good way to get a mess of berries and even some greens, but I don’t think walnuts would work in a smoothie (more of a roughie), and I love my walnuts in the morning.

            Oh, life is so fraught with hard choices… the pain of it all. =]

        2. I get lazy too, that’s where smoothies come in. But oats are pretty easy as well for me, I don’t do anything fancy to them, I just mix them with fruit and usually hemp seeds.

          If people really want boxed cereal, I recently heard of Engine12 and the Esselstyn who makes it was in a youtube video where he shared a go-to recipe with this cereal and lightly microwaves some frozen mango to get it thawed and all soft them smashed it on top of his cereal and said it was kind of like a pie which sounded appealing to me.

  4. Dr. McDougall claims he educated Barack Obama on his starch diet while the future President was still in High School. I explained Obama is a politician, not an advocate for healthy eating. Michelle’s gardening efforts were just a public relations ploy McDougall’s a dreamer (when he’s sober.).

    1. All our nutrition doctors of today stand on the shoulders of the great Dr. John McDougall. If you want to get healthy, the first book to read is “The Starch Solution”.

      1. No it isn’t. The first book to read is Tissue Cleansing Through Bowel Management by Dr. Bernard Jensen. Ph.D. N.D. That is the closest you will come right now to getting properly informed and healthy at the same time.

        1. I think the first book to read in getting and staying healthy is …. “How Not to Die” by Dr. Michael Greger!

              1. Lonie, love the humor!
                ————————————
                Thanks… it’s genetic… or maybe epigenetic. Anyway, I can’t just turn it off. ‘-)

            1. Beat me to it, Lonie! See Dick run! And then there was the little dog with the original name of “Spot,” if I remember correctly.

        2. Jensen appears to heve promoted every quack therapy imaginable although he is probaly best known for his enthusiatic support of iridology.

          1. YR,

            You might like some of his interview with Dr. Fuhrman.

            Over the past few weeks, I have had Google giving me people who have succeeded wildly with Eat to Live and people who have succeeded wildly with The Starch Solution. Both diets have had multiple people lose well over 100 pounds and both had people reverse diseases.

            I went to TrueNorth today to read the follow up on the woman who fasted for her cancer and they had a couple who lost a ton of weight on Eat To Live and I thought, “YES, Why can’t we all just get along?” Quoting Rodney King perhaps, but it was a sincere sentiment.

            Here is one from Eat To Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_tRjf7SsEA&t=7s

            Here is one from The Starch Solution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6LGzD9Mhqc

        1. Larry, that video was a particular day.

          Dr. McDougall has done so many interviews since that video and all of them have been really pretty good.

          1. What I notice about Dr. McDougall is that he tends to be much more respectful when he interviews people. It isn’t hard for him to not argue with people when they disagree with him when he is the interviewer.

            I think he gets upset that they ask to interview him and then intentionally are trying to rope him into topics they already know he disagrees with. I think he feels disrespected when that happens and lashes out.

            When he runs an interview with someone with an opposing viewpoint, he lets them share their viewpoint and doesn’t interrupt them and he doesn’t trick people into interviews and mislead them about what they will be talking about.

            He makes a small comment like, “You know that I have a different opinion about that.”

            It genuinely isn’t difficult for him when he is the one running things and I do think he must have some sort of wound where he struggled to be respected when he was a younger person and maybe feels like people want his name, but don’t demonstrate respect.

            I don’t think he is aware that when the other person is interviewing, it is them wanting their perspective taught. When he interviews, it is to introduce his audience to things from the perspective of the person being interviewed. I think that is interesting. Rarely do they do the respect process which Dr. McDougall definitely does deserve, but it is because they are doing their own program, not bringing him in to talk about The Starch Solution. When he in on a panel, he is polite and excellent and funny and doesn’t interrupt people. It is only when he is put in the hot seat by an interviewer and he feels like they know better.

            1. After a year of watching Dr. McDougall interviews, he brings people in and genuinely honors them for what they are doing, but because of fear of things like white potatoes and corn, people within the Whole Food Plant-Based community don’t always give Dr. McDougall credit for all of the lives he really has saved with his diet. They consider those foods inferior and it hurts him and frustrates him. No matter how many people he saves and no matter how many people lose weight and no matter how many people he interviews and promotes what they are doing, it is harder for him to get respected and he is so respect-oriented that it makes it harder for him. I know that people focus on the sentences he says, but if you listen to him those ways of lashing out are because they are coming against things he believes in so deeply. I respect that he brings them in and gives them a platform and what I will say is that if he was the one interviewing that man it would have gone graceful and gracious and there would not have even been a problem.

              1. I will say the same thing about Dr. Fuhrman. It doesn’t take very much YouTube searching to find people who have lost over a hundred pounds in a year for Dr. Fuhrman either and they aren’t people he is actively promoting. They are people who read his book and it changed their lives.

                We live in a framework where if he made mistakes in his life, we would throw out that man’s mind. I say that about both Dr. McDougall and Dr. Fuhrman.

                Sometimes, we throw the babies all out with the bathwater and do a stupid, very dumb overly-opinionated, competitive process and miss something important.

                1. And Colin.

                  Dear Colin.

                  I wonder if this process, which he was the one who needed everybody to know that Dr. Fuhrman is tainted. Will it be enough to permanently destroy Dr. Fuhrman’s reputation? Will it be enough to cast doubt on Eat to Live and the man behind it permanently in this court of public opinion?

                  Will it be enough?

                  Javert is such a complicated character. The world obviously needs him.

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urxk4mveLCw

                  1. Is the ounce of nuts between them so large that it is so threatening that all of the people who are losing 100 pounds who are on the internet just aren’t ever going to be enough?

                    1. Again, if Colin felt like Dr. Fuhrman’s diet is really dangerous and like he has faked every single study, then, having him even removed as a doctor or speaking to journals and having him barred from studies or doing some legal process of some sort makes sense.

                      Trying to destroy him on the internet years later, when there is so little difference between their diets and even between their research and when there are so many testimonials on the internet. Court of public opinion did not make sense.

                      When I watch the documentaries where all of these men are highlighted, what struck me was that when the topic of cancer came up, Dr. Fuhrman moved people into his house and fed them and they lived.

                      I know that Colin felt the need for the world to know that he might not be trustworthy but…. well…. it just has added fuel against Whole Food Plant-Based on the internet and I would like to know that at the very least he had another example because that diet and that man is saving so many lives and I would agree, watch him like a hawk about his science, but I highly suspect that is already happening.

                    2. Given that Campbell is on the public record as praising Fuhrman’s work

                      “T. Barnard, N. Barnard, Corso, Fuhrman, Lederman, Montgomery, Popper, Pulde, Schulz, Shewman). I cannot overemphasize the remarkable accomplishments of these physicians.”
                      https://nutritionstudies.org/minger-critique/

                      I can’t help thinking that this whole incident has either been magnified by Nelson or even incited by him.

    2. Larry

      “Barack Obama was introduced to the McDougall Program as a teenager during his years at Punahou High School (1975 to 1979). At the invitation of Brad Yates, the school’s health education teacher, I spoke annually at this top private school in Honolulu, Hawaii. After one of my lectures, a group of four young men sitting in the front row of the auditorium approached me. One of the students was introduced to me as Barry Obama. As a young black man he stood out from the rest of the white and Asian student body. Hopefully, I made a lasting impression on his thinking.”
      https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2012nl/nov/obama.htm

      I am no great fan of him but you offer no sunstantive criticisms of McDougall’s dietary guidance just sneers and unsubtantiated personal abuse. That seems typical of paleo/keto/low carb types who realise they can’t sensibly criticise the science so they go for character assassination instead.

  5. The food industry’s stance is essentially a well disguised war on children. Kill them as slowly and profitably as possible. That process benefits a wide a variety of seemingly unrelated industries. For instance: the triple whammy of dairy, refined flour and sugar which causes constipation, acidification, inflammation, fermentation and ear infections in relatively short order. By the age of 8 80%of US children have had at least 3 ear infections and over 500,000 tonsillectomies performed on children annually. That all requires an army of medical staff, billions of $$$ of sophisticated equipment sold to hospitals, gas spent to get everyone back and forth to the hospital, drugs for the child, personal loans for the operations that most can’t afford and that’s not counting all the billions that have to be spent to dig up the iron ore to make the equipment, refine it, deliver it, market it and on and on.

    Shutting down the children’s food sector would put a huge dent in America’s economy.

    On top of that, most people don’t think about what happens to the victim. The child who suffers multiple events can be injured for life with hearing losses (now needs hearing aids and audio testing) and tinnitus which is becoming another huge mostly fake industry.

    Then there’s autistic and food sensitive children. Those ultimately lethal breakfasts cause all sort of side effects doctors don’t ask about or have no tools or time to properly investigate. The US will soon be asked to babysit a huge sector of mentally and emotionally incompetent adults who have trouble changing their own diapers or otherwise looking after themselves.

    It has to be asked: What has changed since World War 2 that has brought about these changes. It’s not that hard to find the causes. What is hard is to admit the real causes and then obliterate them. Big Money is not about to let that happen. That more than anything is why I think at some point, China will have to invade the US. US food policies are contaminating the health of the entire planet. It’s a bloodless invasion but one whose consequences are clearly visible as the US regresses on nearly all fronts. President Trump is a shining physical example of exactly what is wrong with the FDA and every related agency.

      1. Have you ever worked in marketing? I have. Yes producers sell what people buy. But that is less than 10% of the real story. It doesn’t matter what the product is, if it’s marketed properly huge profits can be made. Pet rocks were such products. A friend of mine still sells his version out on Cape Breton Island at Captain Capers.

        Industrial giants spend millions to make billions. They engineer products to sell. Nutrition is never part of the mix. Not even for strawberries. Marketing people are true predators. They identify the target, qualify it the same way a lion or a leopard does and then single mindedly go after it. Just like with the lions and leopards, they have about the same success rate. But unlike the lion and hte leopard, marketers only have to “kill” the prey once. After it’s hooked it (the child) comes back for more and more. Huge money changes hands.

        Have you not noticed that almost all brand of bacon are now saturated with sugar? Ever try to buy a packaged hame that wasn’t also saturated in sugar? Do you know those hams aren’t real hams? They are shreds of ham glued together with meat glue. Most of what you eat is not ham. But it tastes great.

        When you walk into a grocery store you are on camera. They are not just looking for shop lifters. They are looking at buying patterns. Your every move is tracked. Air miles are the same thing. They don’t like people like me. I don’t play their game. But even so, they know my habits as a non-buyer and still they try to hook me.

        Right now many types of snacks are being reformulated to include Hemp Hearts so health benefits can be claimed. What they don’t tell you is that you’d have to eat a boat load of their snacks to consume enough Hemp Hearts to receive any benefits.

        Enjoy your fantasy Marilyn Kay but keep in mind not company remains solvent for long if they wait for a consumer to like what they sell. The consumer has to be ruthlessly hunted down and made or induced to pay and keep paying. That is how capitalism works.

        1. John Newell,

          I never noticed that all brands of bacon are saturated with sugar. But then, I haven’t bought or eaten bacon for decades. Or ham. I’ve been a vegetarian for close to 50 years. So I don’t notice these things. In fact, the meat section of the store smells terrible to me.

          And now I try to avoid processed foods. When I do buy them, I read the ingredient labels and nutrition tables.

          But, if you do eat a fish, a word to the wise: if your fish smells “fishy,” it’s gone bad. Most folks in this country eat bad fish. My first husband was a commercial salmon fisherman (and high school biology teacher and science department head) and he told me this. (I studied lipids as a biochemist, and I concurred with his conclusion.) If you buy fish, buy it frozen on board, and thaw it just before cooking it. Even fish sold as “fresh” is often frozen, then thawed before being placed on ice in the store. Oh, and his salmon was the best salmon I ever ate. (I made an exception to my vegetarian diet to try an occasional small serving, and I can attest that most people also eat bad salmon in restaurants, even expensive ones.)

  6. Does it come out of a box with pretty pictures on the outside?

    Yes – No thanks.
    No – Look closer. You might have a winner.

  7. dr cobalt, my breakfast is basically the same as yours but I am starting to feel like daniel day lewis in ‘ My Left Foot’ re the oatmeal. The kashi wheat squares are high fiber and low sugar. https://www.amazon.ca/Kashi-Organic-Cinnamon-Harvest-Non-GMO/dp/B00DTG9SVE?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duc12-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00DTG9SVE

    If I had to eat processed cereal it would be that. Granola is too high fat.

    1. sue,

      I keep a box of “archived” Kashi cinnamon squares on my shelf. The two thorns that fester and keep it out of my cereal bowl are the Kellogg’s parent company reality and the addition of the “natural flavors.” What exactly are these natural flavors? I called them one day and inquired. The representative read the screen in predictable fashion, obfuscating while explaining to me that all natural flavorings used in Kashi products are from plant sources. Well… okay.

      If you happened to see it, one of Dr. G’s videos about artificial colors showed a slide listing the exact substances that make up Yellow #5 food color. It’s… frightening. It reads like the contents of Junior’s chemistry set. And the manufacturers don’t have to list that entire paragraph of chemical compounds on the cereal box. I’m guessing that “natural flavors” might be in the same class of stuff you probably don’t want in your tummy.

      Flavors and colors: good for business, bad for consumers.

      1. Thanks dr cobalt for the reminder! I looked up natural flavoring before when you mentioned it, and I was horrified.. the page I read included beaver secretions to mock vanilla flavor. God in heaven, it’s amazing we have survived (so far) the food supply. Porridge it is, or maybe a piece or two of fruit.

        1. sue, that is sickening on at least two levels… Could you imagine if the media weren’t totally controlled by the advertisers? This would have stopped being an issue a long time ago.

      2. dr cobalt, I so agree about “natural flavors” it’s irritating beyond belief and I honestly have no idea how it’s even allowed to be placed as a label. Same goes for the terrifying novel that is yellow #5. But “natural flavors” is absolutely shameless, it’s literally like listing “and other stuff” as part of the listed ingredients.

        I once contacted a really good company who had “organic flavors.” I expressed my annoyance but this particular woman who owned this smaller company was extremely sympathetic and helpful. She agreed with my stance on the whole “flavors” listings, but she actually purchased this “organic flavor” to add to her otherwise very pure and straight-forward products and she bothered the company (to which she gave me the contact information to) about it as well and they told her that they can’t give the ingredients to their “organic flavors” so as to avoid others from stealing the recipe. She thought this was as stupid as an excuse as I did but at least their plant based “flavors” in this scenario fell under certified organic guidelines which makes it feel less likely to have quite as terrifying things in it.

  8. First, everyone needs to be fully aware of the Dunedin Study in New Zealand, following over 1,000 children from birth and continuing today with those same people in their mid 40’s. It has set the guidelines for many standards on children’s care. One area is the impact of screen time, including marketing. The American Academy of Pediatrics accepted the guideline of no screen time under the age of 3, and no more than 2 hours per day of any and all screens up to age 7. Behavioural problems and learning deficits parallel the excessive use of screens. Also marketing will have less impact on the children following guidelines. Furthermore, parents must assume their responsibilities and teach children how to eat and live properly and set the right examples. You do not have to be a rocket scientist to figure this out. If you are going to have children, this is your first responsibility. My wife and I lived below the poverty level until our thirties, but we would go to large fruit and vegetable markets and at the end of the day buy enough so cheaply that we could give away excess to friends. Of course nutrition knowledge was not as good in the 40’s-70’s as it is today but even without that people were not eating a pound of steak at one sitting. Busyness is no excuse and, in-fact, it is being used as a bragging point and “badge of honour.” We have to prioritize being parents over friends for our children. Just like reading to a child is a primary success factor in childhood learning, making proper meals and eating together must be a priority. We know junk food is bad. Time to grow up, live in the moment with our children, and care for them.

    1. Robert,

      You are right that parents have to be responsible, but parents do not understand nutrition either.

      I know that part for sure.

      Parents don’t eat vegetables or fruit and are so confused by the “vegan” versus “keto” versus “paleo” wars that they don’t know what to even change in their diets. I have one friend who is about to become a grandmother for the first time and she ends up eating carnivore half the time desperate to bring down her blood sugar levels and not understanding anything at all.

      I don’t remember actual good teaching about nutrition. It was more being exposed to campaigns like “Milk does a body good” and “Eat chicken to lower your saturated fats” and “Butter is better or worse or better or worse than Margarine and all the other fake kinds of butter” all sorts of things like that which were taught on television and those teachings go into the schools and over to the places like churches and social gatherings.

      Nowadays, If I go places, it is mostly that people are talking Keto or anti-gluten, anti-soy, anti-nightshade, lectins are anti-nutritious.

      Information is so much harder to control nowadays. In some ways, once people google “Keto” they start getting all of their information from a Keto direction. If they Google “Vegan” they will get some pro-vegan and some “Why I left Veganism” and if they click on that, they will get 20 more people who left Veganism. I know that for sure because I clicked on it.

      People who are older sometimes don’t realize that when you have 2 generations of parents who didn’t eat fruit or vegetables and who grew up on sugared cereal and candy and McDonalds as almost daily fare, they no longer know the principles which you want them to be responsible for.

      I look at my sister-in-law. Her mother is elderly, but she smokes, drinks alcohol and soda, and eats junkfood and doesn’t eat vegetables and neither does my sister-in-law and neither does her children and if you look at her grandchild, she eats pizza, chicken mcnuggets and fries, taco bell, and candy and sugared cereal and she has eaten almost exclusively those things for almost 9 years of her life and she has zero concept of any of your concepts and neither does her mother or grandmother or great-grandmother, so which one of those people could even possibly take responsibility.

      The fact that the great-grandmother is likely going to live into her 90’s smoking every day and not eating vegetables or fruit causes that conversation to come up with me, but they do not have any of the Whole Food Plant-Based concepts. When my brother and his wife got Diabetes, they started just eating chicken and got rid of every grain and they eat the toppings on the pizza and don’t eat the crust now and that is them taking responsibility.

      1. I was watching some of the ex-vegan videos and one of the ones who went carnivore said, “I got rid of all of that anti-nutrition and all of those inflammatory foods, which I was eating while I was a vegan….”

        Some of us know that those of you who grew up being told to eat your vegetables think that these other people just aren’t taking responsibility, but I have sat at the table with people who are Keto, who were trying to get more nutrition by going meat only and I know that you have no idea that people do not have the alphabet of Whole Food Plant-Based at all. None of the people around me have ever heard of any of these doctors. They are closer to the bigger American culture and I will mentally try to bring you back to the chart where the vast majority – meaning 90-something percent eat less than one leaf of leafy green per day and less than one fruit and the only vegetable which made the list of things Americans actually eat regularly was the white potato. They do not have the logic you are using at all.

    2. “Busyness is no excuse and, in-fact, it is being used as a bragging point and ‘badge of honor.'”

      Good point, I’ve witnessed this as well.

    1. Marcia, ugh, Mercola has totally gone off the rails! I know he pushed keto, but as Dr. Joel Kahn says, keto can be done with no animal products. But a ‘carnivore’ diet? Disgusting, and lethal!

      1. Mercola seems to do all of the diets. I know that he had Dr. Greger on there at least once.

        Carnivore seems to be the way quite a few young people are slingshotting away from vegan.

        Older Diabetics and pre-Diabetics and Cancer patients often end up there, too.

        My friends were having so much trouble keeping their blood sugar under control that they started Keto, but for at least a few seasons ended up closer to carnivore and when I was in high school, I think I did the same thing. Atkins to carnivore. Not out of the animal products. Out of the fact that I was usually hungry all of the time and eating Atkins took away the hunger and suddenly, you have to cook meat all of the time and it is filling and the vegetables like cruciferous which they tell you that you can eat as many as you want weren’t things I was eating before. If they had told me that I could keep potatoes, I would have kept potatoes, but keeping things I didn’t really like to eat back then made carnivore a good leap. People who have dieted and messed up their metabolism and ended up losing a lot then getting ridiculously hungry then gaining the weight back plus 10 pounds like diets which they can eat a lot of food and not be hungry and still lose weight. That is the appeal even of diets with calorie density.

        I will acknowledge that I am quite satisfied a year and a half into this process and that is shocking to me, but I didn’t go low enough calories to really lose all of the weight. I lost some, but not all and I still have fear of doing calorie restriction because THAT is what I always failed at. I was pretty good at carnivore until I became deathly allergic to meat. After that, I was able to genuinely have compassion for the animals and not want them killed and would not likely slingshot over to carnivore even if I didn’t have that compassion because of food allergies, but I do understand that the vegans who shift often really have nutritional deficiencies and have maybe things like anorexia where they aren’t eating enough calories as vegans and are shutting off their periods and they likely have doctors and family members desperately trying to get them to think differently about it. Some are afraid of soy and afraid of beans and afraid of nightshades and afraid of grains and are trying to do a version of vegan which is unsustainable and they feel so much better when they add in some meat that they really do get almost offended by veganism. I saw the same thing with people who went through the kidney stones and kidney failure issues. They see vegan as downright dangerous and suddenly see meat as nutritious and they over-correct by ten zillion miles. The same with the SIBO community. More than that though, there is such a ridiculous peer pressure on the young people. I watched one of the women who said, “I liked being part of the club and wanted to be included in the group…..” They change social situations from Vegan to Keto and suddenly they see the same type of rebellious youth over in the carnivore section. They saw them before over in the drinking their own pee and doing colonics and the different raw movements. I don’t remember the numbers 10 10 80 or something like that. In Christianity, it was the numbers 24/7 which you could see on the t-shirts of the highly attractive radically passionate praying young people who stay up all night in their boiler rooms singing worship songs and praying their hearts out. I emphasize highly attractive charismatic performers. Hard not to follow them if you are wanting to be part of the communities they are a part of. I want to be like the cool kids song can play right now. Laughing.

        1. Honestly, a hot chick in one of the videos is saying, “My breasts grew bigger and I got a more feminine shape and my waist got smaller and I got a new sex drive” and somehow the males and females who have a crush on the cutie-pie have to come down to earth and say, “No, that is the animal hormones already affecting her in a single month.”

          1. I don’t believe people jump from identitying vegan to identifying carnivore unless they are angry at something or someone or have a low self-esteem or no sense of inner True North. If that makes sense.

            Vegan is such a strong, life-oriented belief system.

            I think they choose it because they don’t like vegetables or they would go vegan keto or pescatarian.

            Going carnivore is an aggressive identity change and it is like shaking off the politics or culture of beganism or the social status of some sort.

            1. I think you would only do it out of a combination of a keto mindset and not liking the vegetables on the keto vegetable list

              Plus being offended at veganism.

              It has to be both.

              Or you would just add a little meat.

              1. I ended up going back to the website of the woman who bonded more with the animals because they were sacrificing their lives for her and I shared that if she lives an average lifespan and eats 3 carnivore meals per day that she would have over 80,000 animals die for her.

                Selah

                1. That is probably so conservative.

                  People who eat carnivore tend to eat multiple meat sources and that could easily push the number over 100,000 animals killed for each person.

      2. Mercola knows what the people want to hear. It’s easy to lure an audience when you spoon feed them things like to believe. Mercola is shameless. I read an article that his private practice was shut down and he’s gotten incredibly wealthy from his online endeavors, apparently living in a mansion.

  9. Thank you, Dr. Greger, for your usual enlightening video! How sad and yet typically American today to see that money prevails in so many political decisions. We are evolving more and more into a plutocracy as our elected officials are bought and sold with corporate dollars. Have you seen “The Way We Eat Now” by Bee Wilson, which was reviewed in yesterday’s NY Times Book Review section? Not very encouraging. The author writes mostly about public policy solutions, which seems ridiculous to me. Re actions that individuals can take – she “tries drinking a Soylent-like powdered meal-replacement at lunch for a week…” and not surprisely finds it lacking in variety. NOT ONE WORD ABOUT PLANT-BASED EATING, with its huge potential for variety, as we all know. So we need your work more and more, Dr. Greger. My wife, Honey, and I enjoyed meeting you at the Esselstyn’s Plant Stock last summer and look forward to seeing you again at the Holistic Holiday at Sea this fall.

    1. Jim Goodale,

      I misread your comment as “our elected officials are bought and sold with corporate COLLARS.” Sounds about right to me.

  10. “The amazing story about what lobbying millions can do to shut down efforts to protect children.”

    Not an “amazing story” – just a rather disheartening and unfortunately typical account about how lobbying millions shut down efforts to protect children. And not just in the food industry.

    As best I can tell any business has two objectives. FIRST, to make money, and SECOND, to minimize or eliminate liability that could lose money. Unless improving the health of human beings ties into one of these objectives in a significant way, this will play no part in how a business operates. This applies to any business, and any industry, whether the tobacco industry, the sugar industry, the alcohol industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the food industry, and yes the cell phone industry with a new 5G roll-out that will expose the public to new higher energy frequencies without any no safety testing at all, and with plans to roll over any any regulations, programs, or agency barriers to deployment of 5G ( https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/2607 ) . And in the event of a particular problem cropping up with respect to health, each deals with it pretty much in the same way:

    Stage 1 – Denial of any effects. Fund research studies specifically designed to show this. Hire lobbyists. Have them lobby to cut off or reduce government funding of research studies that might show effects, and to legislate “safe” levels of exposure as high as possible to neutralize future liability.
    Stage 2 – Data from independent research accumulates. Limited acceptance of some effects, denial of any harmful effects. Fund research studies specifically designed to show this, and to counter studies showing harm or at least to confuse the issue. Hire more lobbyists.
    Stage 3 – Acceptance of small harmful effects, denial of any significant harmful effects at current levels of exposure. Fund research studies specifically designed to show this, and to counter studies showing harm. Hire even more lobbyists and experts to keep “safe” levels of exposure as high as possible.
    Stage 4 – Acceptance of significant harmful effects at current levels of exposure, minimal revision of “safe” exposure levels by government regulatory agencies.
    Stage 5 – Warning labels and educational materials provided to the public.
    Stage – Safe Exposure levels actually enforced by the government. (This almost never happens)

    Not an “amazing” story – just standard operating procedure for how industries work in the U.S. And none of the care any more about the health of children than the food industry does.

    1. Oh – I wanted to add one new “lobbying” strategy.

      Now it becomes harder and harder for people to find good information online. Most people look for information by doing a Google search – which originally ranked websites mainly by popularity – though businesses could pay to have advertising links placed at the top of the frst page of search results. However, Google’s can and does change how its search algorithms work, and a few weeks ago they made a significant one, that in effect made many popular alternative health sites effectively disappear.

      See for example this story: https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2019/06/24/google-latest-algorithm-update-buries-mercola.aspx

      Dr. Greger’s website still shows up on page 1 if I google “nutrition.” McDougall and Neil Barnard have apparently not fared so well – not even as well as Mercola (he has a link at the bottom of page 4) their websites do not show up on the first 5 pages even when I specifically googled “lifestyle medicine”.

      Nor does this apply only to alternative health websites. Two months ago, when I last googled “5G,” aside from ads by Verizon, the first page displayed an assortment of both positive and negative story links. Just now when I googled the first 3 pages 5G, I found nothing but links to websites that promote 5G as the best thing since sliced bread, beginning with a big paid ad from Verizon on page 1. And even if I google “5G harm” the page starts out with a Verizon ad followed by a featured article – the one most people click on that repeats the industry position disputing any the potential for harm – despite the absence of any safety tests, even on rats – and then goes on to promotes 5G.

      And when someone searches for information, who looks past the first page? Other browsers do better – but as far as keeping the 90% or so of the public that relies on Google away even from objective referenced information written by legitimately credentialed experts that might jeopardize corporate profits – this algorithm does a pretty effective job. And I suspect the next version will do an even better job.

      1984 has arrived. Newspeak anyone?

      1. Alef,

        Yes, I had noticed that so many times.

        I have tried to re-search for things I had looked at many times and suddenly, it can be buried more than 10 pages deep, even though I thought that my behavior of clicking on specific topic links was supposed to be part of that algorithm.

        YouTube is a little easier, but you still have to get one of the keywords right to find people.

        I genuinely hate Google, except their doodles, which can be cute.

        1. Deb, me too, so stay away from 23andme… going on memory, this company is owned by the wife of the google owner and they plan on doing similar things with their collected data as google has done, which is to sell people’s personal information to interested buyers such as insurance companies.

          An excellent alternative to google is Ecosia.org–a search engine that plants a native tree for every search done on their website!

          1. Thanks, S!

            It is interesting because I am a fairly open book in so many ways, but I hate that it wasn’t grown-ups who developed the internet.

      2. Alef1, Agree on your assessment of Google … and Facebook, too. They both have become “International” monopolies with tremendous “unelected” power!

        1. and Facebook, too
          ————————-
          Kind of appropriate the video picture is a big wad of cash… and your mention of Facebook. They will be unveiling a new digital currency in the coming days. Sort of like Bitcoin except backed by a large number of world wide currencies.

          This could be the beginning of the Blockchain world economy or perhaps something we will find sinister. For me, I’m thinking on the bright side of things. But back to being on topic, this could be a means to further buy influence that is not easily traceable.

          If you are a parent, teach your kids skepticism. It will likely serve them well throughout life.

          1. “They will be unveiling a new digital currency in the coming days”

            The more digital everyone gets, the more controlled they are. The lure to plugging into the machine is the illusion of convenience, but not only does it make life a lot more stressful and complicated, it makes you more vulnerable and more owned. It’s like the pied piper. Speaking of the importance of skepticism…

            1. Lonie and S,

              I agree. Facebook particularly is so controlling over the visitors, but they aren’t controlling over the safety and privacy and protecting the visitors’ end of the equation.

              Look at all of the identity theft already and it is so easy for criminals to get good at stealing on the internet and people are not educated enough in every single part of computer language even. My sister-in-law got her six-figure job simply because she knew what HTML code looked like and she is the only one of the people she interacts with in the insurance company she is in who knew it and honestly, we will get worse insurance and worse everything because it will be the computer geeks who they have to hire and they will lose the people who were good at the actual job end of things. My other friend who has decades and decades experience at her job was let go and now to find a new job it is only if she knows Linux and if she knows things like how to do formulas in eXcel and those things are being over-valued by infinity percent. Okay, maybe just by some percent, which I can’t possibly quantify.

              If surgery goes robotic and suddenly the good surgeons are let go for the robotics geeks, something will be lost.

              Nobody at the several insurance companies I have friends working in understands the future of technology and they are running a zillion miles an hour to be the first artificial intelligence insurance company in the universe and they don’t know how to do insurance.

              Keep up with all of the Jones’ in the universe because someone is going to 3 D laser print an insurance company and it will have cool robotic agents rolling up the moving sidewalks. Oh no, we are going to be obsolete. I can tell it already, but I don’t know if it will be a drone or a self-driving car with a little robot or drone and then, they can have spent 10 zillion dollars to have someone send you a text of a bill for the same service which used to only cost 1 zillion dollars.

              Bank of America will be my example. They don’t want people coming to their banks and always had their tellers mention that you can use the ATM, which had the same line as the drive-thru and I didn’t see it as more convenient and I bond with everybody in my town who have jobs and it was just odd that my local bank was so friendly and “Nice to see you” and “How can we help you?” oriented and Bank of America was “Please don’t interact with the tellers oriented. So, they got rid of the drive-thru. They want people to do on-line banking. Then, they announced that they will no longer allow small businesses to use their tax services to submit their taxes to the government and we are small business and they announce “Big businesses may still use the services as usual.”

              Well, then, when we are closing down our tax account, since we can no longer use it, they start emailing us that they want our feedback for the credit cards we all stopped using and they suddenly care about us as individuals as if they actually do and I am putting my feedback on a nutrition site because Bank of America doesn’t care about anything at all except money and they aren’t listening at all and never will unless people start to leave them in high enough numbers.

              1. I can use insurance as examples. The workers Don’t understand either insurance or technology, but they are getting six-figures because people with the wrong values are running things. They aren’t good at either and also don’t care about the public and aren’t good at managing money and aren’t good at customer service and they drop elderly people who paid on time all of their lives for paying a few days late while they were in the hospital. Oh wait, politics might be something they are good at. They try to not have the public even be able to interact with human beings at all.

                1. Deb, I’m pretty sure you just solved a huge part of the mystery for me as to why bank and credit card service has gotten so HORRIBLE and that it seems like the people I’ve had to deal with and others I know have had to deal with seem incapable of their jobs to the point that it feels like some kind of a joke.

              2. All excellent points, Deb! I whole heartedly agree with you. Thanks for posting about Bank of America, they should be called out; all of this stuff needs to start being called out, as a start.

      3. Google and the social media sites are a serious problem these days and need to be dealt with immediately–it should be a top priority. I’ll probably be flagged by google spies after this comment… a joke, but honestly….

        Thanks for reminding us and pointing this out, alef1!

  11. Am watching Dr. How-s-Your-Poop Oz with one eye as I type. One of the main subjects is “Can you get addicted to microwave food?” The answer is a resounding YES. :-( They showed the 50,000 ingredients in one of those breakfast items, and no wonder there are so many obese people. They’re simply too lazy to do their own cooking. (As I’ve posted before, I don’t own a microwave oven.)

    BTW, Deb: Maybe you would be a good candidate for a rebounder. Lida is still mulling it over, but I swear it’s one of the best things I ever invested in. My rebounder and I are good pals. I do a sort of “bouncing meditation” during those 10 minutes, twice a day.

      1. And you never got back up on the horse, huh Deb?

        I posted a while back that I broke my right big toe while not concentrating when bouncing. But that hasn’t stopped me from my 10 minutes 2x a day. There are SO many wonderful benefits from bouncing. We just have to remember to NOT jump or lift our feet from the rebounder, just lightly bounce. (Lida, don’t let her discourage you.)

        1. Oh wait a minute. You didn’t say that you injured your foot/ankle from bouncing on your rebounder. Okay, never mind.

  12. I think we all know that when it comes to nutrition, profit will in every case trump (no pun intended) nutrition. It is up to the parents to teach their children what should be eaten and what should not. This process needs to start when they are very young, or it will not happen at all !

    1. Who do you suppose is going to teach the parents Allen? They are almost as uninformed as their children and from the looks of this thread, nearly everyone here but me almost as uninformed. I’m surprised that you people are eating any of this stuff. It’s like you watch the videos, read the blogs and carry on like nothing happened.

        1. There he goes again, with his lofty “you people.”
          —————————————————————-
          But I have to give him credit, ’cause in my mind at least, it is pretty hard for me to be looked down on. ‘-)

    2. allen, I agree! It is up to parents to decide what their children eat. Government intervention never turns out well.
      None of my children ever had breakfast cereal. We simply don’t have junk food in the house. No junk TV either, so they never lobbied for any of that stuff.
      Most parents do know they shouldn’t eat that stuff, and feed it to their children. It’s just the easy way out. And ‘everyone does it’.
      Personal responsibility will always be a choice.
      One thing government could do, is promote PE in schools, and take out those awful junk food vending machines. Bring back real cooking in the cafeteria.

  13. At the video’s 4:08 point, note how General Mills has the audacity to claim “The Proposal’s nutrition standard [of less sugar] **would harm public health if actually implemented.**”

    Proving once again “For the love of money is the root of all evil” — First Timothy 6:10.

  14. You think the food industry is bad? What about the pharmaceutical industry? They have made it so that if you even question their studies you are labeled as an anti vaxxer and they can ban you from the internets.

  15. It’s always amazing to me that so many people seem to believe that calling others names and using profanity, while saying nothing substantive, is an actual argument. But I suppose it is a lot easier than thinking. more time for whatever they do with their extra leisure time

  16. Hello everyone! I have been a Nutrition facts.org subscriber and transcript reader for many, many years and Dr. Gregor is my guru and go to person for all my nutrition concerns. I would like to let you all know That I noticed recently that the content of the daily topics have steered away from food related issues. I am not interested in political or Matters that are unrelated to The actual topics of food, herbs or spices That you would discuss in the past. It all seems to be changing to other issues sometimes and related to food itself. To be honest with you, I don’t like it. Please keep on track like you have in the past. I have learned such valuable information to carry forward for the rest of my life because of you.Thank you for letting me share this to you all. My best, Robin Backus 707-933-7019

    1. You’ve been a subscriber for “many, many years” (how long has he had this site, anyway?)…..and yet you still spell his name “Dr. Gregor”?

    2. Hi Robin, What you may see as off topic, I see as veins of gold. The comments section is like a gold mine from the brainstorming… that is, a comment sparks a thought may lead to a life-saving, for some, piece of information.

      If the comments were restricted to the topic of the video or the blog, this would be the most boring site on the Internet. By embracing the variation in the comments, one gets the benefits of a working laboratory of knowledge.

      If I may be so bold as to suggest you open your mind to the extra-curricular information, you may find the acorns that all those blind squirrels fail to stumble upon. ‘-)

      1. Robin,

        You do represent the biggest section of Dr Greger’s followers. His most-watched videos are not about science or health or about trying to protect people from the abuses of the food industry by informing them. His biggest videos are just about food and diet and more people will be in that section of the audience soon because of his new book.

      1. Yes, where else but at NF can we learn juicy details about how many times a day to “do No. 2” (apparently after every bite of food we take) to — next door in the heavy period-ginger blog — one lady’s saturating of an ultra absorbency tampon, and Deb’s orgasms. :-)

  17. Have any of you had the experience of talking on a cell phone with someone and suddenly Google or YouTube starts offering you exactly what you were speaking about?

    It has happened to me a few times in the past few days.

    My coworker and his wife spoke about it because it was them speaking to each other, not using search engines.

    Honestly, I thought it probably was coincidence, but it just happened in such a specific way that it really creeped me out.

  18. I have been watching cholesterol videos and a man who did self-study changed his diet various ways and he chose bread for the high carb diet, which probably isn’t what I would choose, but the high carb did have the lowest cholesterol even when it was something with flour. The mixed diet is where the cholesterol went furthest off and the high, high high fat diet had the. Holesterol drop again though not as low as the bread diet.

    There was a keto study where gout risks went up for 6 weeks and then iris acid dropped to a protective against gout level.

    No, I couldn’t go keto even if I wanted to but I am fascinated by the science.

    1. It’s possible to design studies to deliver particular results.

      For exanple, if you are Jeff Volek and receive oodles of Atkins Foundation research money, you can produce studies like this
      https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11745-008-3274-2

      In this case, carbohydrate restriction was combined with calorie restriction and the test subjects all had damaged metabolic systems. Bear in mind that

      ‘many studies show that excess adiposity attenuates the expected lipid and lipoprotein response to a plasma cholesterol–lowering diet. Diets low in SFA and cholesterol are less effective in improving the lipid profile in obese individuals and in patients with metabolic syndrome. In contrast, lean persons are more responsive to reductions in dietary SFA and cholesterol. Multiple mechanisms likely contribute to the altered plasma lipid responses to dietary changes in individuals with excess adiposity. The greater rate of hepatic cholesterol synthesis in obese individuals suppresses the expression of hepatic LDL receptors (LDLR), thereby reducing hepatic LDL uptake. Insulin resistance develops as a result of adipose-tissue induced inflammation, causing significant changes in enzymes necessary for normal lipid metabolism. In addition, the LDLR-mediated uptake in obesity is attenuated by alterations in neuroendocrine regulation of hormonal secretions (e.g. growth hormone, thyroid hormone, and cortisol) as well as the unique gut microbiota, the latter of which appears to affect lipid absorption. Reducing adipose tissue mass, especially from the abdominal region, is an effective strategy to improve the lipid response to dietary interventions by reducing inflammation, enhancing insulin sensitivity, and improving LDLR binding. Thus, normalizing adipose tissue mass is an important goal for maximizing the diet response to a plasma cholesterol–lowering diet.’
      https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/2/3/261/4591487

      and it is easier to understand how academics like Volek and others can be relied upon to design studies that will deliver results that appear to exonerate high saturated fat/low carb diets

      1. Thanks!

        Yes, I understand the designing studies part.

        I have been watching individuals testing themselves eating different ways.

        A mostly bread diet might be one way of making sure the “carb” was refined enough to bring the results together.

        I suspect he doesn’t eat vegetables and fruit and was looking for what he could eat.

        I am trying to understand the science better. You discussing it that way helps.

        The uric acid suddenly going low after 6 weeks of Keto is something I am so interested in. My brother has had such problems with gout since he went Keto, but it has slowed down. He hasn’t mentioned it since his surgery. I am wondering if the risks to the kidneys also decrease if he stays in Ketosis and the uric acid really does come down and the risk of gout suddenly comes down.

  19. Deb, YR, Marilyn, Lonnie, Dr Cobalt and occasionally Fumbles – Just love the way you all bounce off one another with your stories, experiences and anecdotes. I come here for my daily fix!

    Some would say it’s a bit sad but I feel enlightened!

    You add much colour and depth to the debate that follows each video. Thankyou.

    Greg
    PS – SAD is also the standard Australian diet; arugula is really rocket and ‘cell’ phones are really mobile phones.

      1. You must have me confused with someone else. I haven’t posted before…..except for a brief comment and request for help about high BP and white coat syndrome.

        1. Oh, sorry then.

          There is another Greg who regularly posts comments like “what about this and that study that shows beneficial effects from meat/fish/egg/dairy consumption?”

          You might say that he is the site’s resident Devil’s Advocate. He is very useful in getting us to focus on and analyse studies that apparently contradict the concusions found both here and in most mainstream nutritional advice.

          https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-pressure/expert-answers/white-coat-hypertension/faq-20057792

    1. Greg, I remember your post about struggles with blood pressure because I was going through asimilar situation. In fact, the more the doctors focussed on it, the worse it got. How are you doing?

      I write now simply to share that I brought mine back down to lower levels, even in the doctor’s office, and what I did. First, I stopped taking my blood pressure! I took the focus to meditating instead… just 20 min or so before sleep, or once in a while during the day if I could manage it. I also happed to be eating a lot of fruit… often finishing each meal with a piece, and snacks. Apples, berries, melon, bananas etc. Next doc appt, it was 106/64 and often in that range. Dr Greger has a video somewhere about fruit lowering bp.

      1. I also happed to be eating a lot of fruit… often finishing each meal with a piece, and snacks. Apples, berries, melon, bananas etc. Next doc appt, it was 106/64 and often in that range. Dr Greger has a video somewhere about fruit lowering bp.
        ———————————————————————————————————————
        Barb, very interesting. And while I eat lots of fruit (bananas, cherries, blueberries etc.) at my last appointment to my VA eye doctor the nurse took my blood pressure and it came in at 165/140? (can’t remember the diastolic for sure.)

        It wasn’t the nurse ’cause she wasn’t dressed to kill nor wearing any noticeable pheromones ‘-)

        Anyway, got a good report from the Optometrist, or whatever, that was actually better than my previous report from 6 months ago. I sorta attribute that to taking lutein supplements.

        But the blood pressure thing left me puzzled. I remember taking a sublingual NMN earlier in the morning. I probably ate some dark chocolate and I think drank some beet root juice (nitric oxide promoters and vein enlargers.) I expected the chocolate and beet root juice to open my veins and therefore, give a lower bp reading.

        I recall the NMN is supposed to repair the endothelial cells in the arteries and veins and wondered if being under reconstruction might cause a temporary effect on bp.

        Finally, I remembered that I may have taken a few drops of high potency CBD oil under my tongue.

        A reason I thought this might be causation is because in the past I’ve rubbed hemp oil (little or no CBD) on my arms and hands. After doing this, the veins on my arms which are barely visible stand up well above skin level and the ones on my hands which are always prevalent, stand up even more.

        I have another Drs appt in Oct and that one includes labs. I’ll go into that one having omitted the things mentioned above for a day or two prior. If bp goes down to past numbers, I’ll know where to look to finding what is affecting my bp.

  20. Lonie, I haven’t used cbd or NMN so I couldn’t say if they have an effect. The only things I did differently was meditating consistently, eating a lot of fruit, and, come to think of it, I got 2 nights sleep in a row. I have slept poorly for a long long time, so getting even more than 3 or 4 hours is a treat.

    Do you take bp readings at home Lonie? If you get a high one, take 2 more with a minute or more between.

    1. Do you take bp readings at home Lonie? If you get a high one, take 2 more with a minute or more between
      —————————————————————————————————————————————————
      Actually no to bp readings at home. Used to but after reading so many times how those home versions are inaccurate, I decided I would rather have no information rather than wrong information.

  21. On the topic of Industry influence, I’m interested in finding higher education in nutrition that is credible and untainted by industry interests. I see that many of these “health coach certification” programs espouse “daily dairy intake” and Nutritionist education programs that promote consumption of oils–as if we were machines!

    I’m a huge fan of the NF.org team’s evidence-based approach and I wonder what’s the most fact-supported path to become a well-informed and effective Health Coach / Nutritional Therapist. Can you help provide some clarity on this?

    Thanks,
    John

  22. Money wins…but it gets worse. Imagine if you will, politicians actively promoting consumption of sugary cereals. Imagine a law that makes it impossible to sue these makers if your child is harmed from their products. Imagine that your child is required to eat these cereals in order to attend school. Imagine your doctor reporting you to CPS when he finds out you don’t use these unhealthy products on your kids. Now imagine if the FDA was actually in the cereal business too. Imagine government programs to increase sugary cereal consumption. Imagine cover-ups of the damage being done, and jiggered data on the benefits of sugar. All these things are already true in a different industry. Can you guess which one? YouTube RFK Jr and Guardasil.

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