Flashback Friday: The Okinawa Diet – Living to 100

Flashback Friday: The Okinawa Diet – Living to 100
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What would happen if you centered your diet around vegetables, the most nutrient-dense food group?

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The dietary guidelines recommend that we try to choose meals or snacks that are high in nutrients but lower in calories to reduce the risk of chronic disease. By this measure, the healthiest foods on the planet, the most nutrient dense, are vegetables, containing the most nutrient bang for our caloric buck. So, what would happen if a population centered their entire diet around vegetables? They might end up having among the longest lives in the world.

Of course, any time you hear about long-living populations, you have to make sure it’s validated, as it may be hard to find birth certificates from the 1890s. But validation studies suggest that, indeed, they really do live that long.

The traditional diet in Okinawa is based on vegetables, beans, and other plants. I’m used to seeing the Okinawan diet represented like this—the base being vegetables, beans, and grains, but a substantial contribution from fish and other meat.  But a more accurate representation would be this, if you look at their actual dietary intake. We know what they were eating from the U.S. National Archives, because the U.S. military ran Okinawa until it was given back to Japan in 1972. And if you look at the traditional diets of more than 2,000 Okinawans, this is how it breaks down.

Less than 1% of their diet was fish; less than 1% of their diet was meat, and same with dairy and eggs, so it was more than 96% plant-based, and more than 90% whole food plant based—very few processed foods either. And, not just whole food plant-based, but most of their diet was vegetables, and one vegetable in particular—sweet potatoes. The Okinawan diet was centered around purple and orange sweet potatoes—how delicious is that? Could have been bitter gourd, or soursop—but no, sweet potatoes, yum.

So, 90 plus percent whole food plant-based makes it a highly anti-inflammatory diet, makes it a highly antioxidant diet. If you measure the level of oxidized fat within their system, there is compelling evidence of less free radical damage. Maybe they just genetically have better antioxidant enzymes or something? No, their antioxidant enzyme activity is the same; it’s all the extra antioxidants that they’re getting from their diet that may be making the difference—most of their diet is vegetables!

So, six to twelve times fewer heart disease deaths than the U.S.—you can see they ran out of room for the graph for our death rate; two to three times fewer colon cancer deaths; seven times fewer prostate cancer deaths; and five and a half times lower risk of dying from breast cancer.

Some of this protection may have been because they were eating only about 1,800 calories a day. They were actually eating a greater mass of food, but the whole plant foods are just calorically dilute. There’s also a cultural norm not to stuff oneself.

The plant-based nature of the diet may trump the caloric restriction, though, since the one population that lives even longer than the Okinawa Japanese don’t just eat a 98% meat-free diet, they eat 100% meat-free. The Adventist vegetarians in California, with perhaps the highest life expectancy of any formally described population.

Adventist vegetarian men and women live to be about 83 and 86, comparable to Okinawan women, but better than Okinawan men. The best of the best were Adventist vegetarians who had healthy lifestyles too, like being exercising nonsmokers, 87 and nearly 90, on average. That’s like 10 to 14 years longer than the general population. Ten to 14 extra years on this Earth from simple lifestyle choices. And, this is happening now, in modern times, whereas Okinawan longevity is now a thing of the past. Okinawa now hosts more than a dozen KFCs.

Their saturated fat tripled. They went from eating essentially no cholesterol to a few Big Macs’ worth, tripled their sodium, and are now just as potassium deficient as Americans, getting less than half of the recommended minimum daily intake of 4,700 mg a day. In two generations, Okinawans have gone from the leanest Japanese to the fattest. As a consequence, there has been a resurgence of interest from public health professionals in getting Okinawans to eat the Okinawan diet, too.

To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video. This is just an approximation of the audio contributed by Katie Schloer.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

The dietary guidelines recommend that we try to choose meals or snacks that are high in nutrients but lower in calories to reduce the risk of chronic disease. By this measure, the healthiest foods on the planet, the most nutrient dense, are vegetables, containing the most nutrient bang for our caloric buck. So, what would happen if a population centered their entire diet around vegetables? They might end up having among the longest lives in the world.

Of course, any time you hear about long-living populations, you have to make sure it’s validated, as it may be hard to find birth certificates from the 1890s. But validation studies suggest that, indeed, they really do live that long.

The traditional diet in Okinawa is based on vegetables, beans, and other plants. I’m used to seeing the Okinawan diet represented like this—the base being vegetables, beans, and grains, but a substantial contribution from fish and other meat.  But a more accurate representation would be this, if you look at their actual dietary intake. We know what they were eating from the U.S. National Archives, because the U.S. military ran Okinawa until it was given back to Japan in 1972. And if you look at the traditional diets of more than 2,000 Okinawans, this is how it breaks down.

Less than 1% of their diet was fish; less than 1% of their diet was meat, and same with dairy and eggs, so it was more than 96% plant-based, and more than 90% whole food plant based—very few processed foods either. And, not just whole food plant-based, but most of their diet was vegetables, and one vegetable in particular—sweet potatoes. The Okinawan diet was centered around purple and orange sweet potatoes—how delicious is that? Could have been bitter gourd, or soursop—but no, sweet potatoes, yum.

So, 90 plus percent whole food plant-based makes it a highly anti-inflammatory diet, makes it a highly antioxidant diet. If you measure the level of oxidized fat within their system, there is compelling evidence of less free radical damage. Maybe they just genetically have better antioxidant enzymes or something? No, their antioxidant enzyme activity is the same; it’s all the extra antioxidants that they’re getting from their diet that may be making the difference—most of their diet is vegetables!

So, six to twelve times fewer heart disease deaths than the U.S.—you can see they ran out of room for the graph for our death rate; two to three times fewer colon cancer deaths; seven times fewer prostate cancer deaths; and five and a half times lower risk of dying from breast cancer.

Some of this protection may have been because they were eating only about 1,800 calories a day. They were actually eating a greater mass of food, but the whole plant foods are just calorically dilute. There’s also a cultural norm not to stuff oneself.

The plant-based nature of the diet may trump the caloric restriction, though, since the one population that lives even longer than the Okinawa Japanese don’t just eat a 98% meat-free diet, they eat 100% meat-free. The Adventist vegetarians in California, with perhaps the highest life expectancy of any formally described population.

Adventist vegetarian men and women live to be about 83 and 86, comparable to Okinawan women, but better than Okinawan men. The best of the best were Adventist vegetarians who had healthy lifestyles too, like being exercising nonsmokers, 87 and nearly 90, on average. That’s like 10 to 14 years longer than the general population. Ten to 14 extra years on this Earth from simple lifestyle choices. And, this is happening now, in modern times, whereas Okinawan longevity is now a thing of the past. Okinawa now hosts more than a dozen KFCs.

Their saturated fat tripled. They went from eating essentially no cholesterol to a few Big Macs’ worth, tripled their sodium, and are now just as potassium deficient as Americans, getting less than half of the recommended minimum daily intake of 4,700 mg a day. In two generations, Okinawans have gone from the leanest Japanese to the fattest. As a consequence, there has been a resurgence of interest from public health professionals in getting Okinawans to eat the Okinawan diet, too.

To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video. This is just an approximation of the audio contributed by Katie Schloer.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

147 responses to “Flashback Friday: The Okinawa Diet – Living to 100

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  1. I’m surprised that Okinawans eat so little nuts and seeds. Less than 1 percent. What do the Californian Adventists eat in composition? I ask because I adopted the 100% plant based whole foods diet as well.

    1. Adventists do eat nuts.

      There is a study where the Adventists who ate a handful of nuts at least 5 times per week have about half the risk of heart disease and live about two years longer than those who don’t eat nuts. And that statistic includes their vegan population.

      1. Deb

        Where are you getting this stuff from?

        I haven’t seen anything about nut eaters living two years longer. Or any mention of ‘vegans’.

        And I thought it was 4 times a week not 5.

              1. It’s only an abstract unfortunately. The full article is behind a paywall,

                However, I did a;so find a copy of the full paper elsewhere ……
                https://www.researchgate.net/publication/21528754_A_possible_protective_effect_of_nut_consumption_on_risk_of_coronary_heart_disease_The_Adventist_Health_Study

                Note that the ‘vegetarian’ population in this old study is described as comprising lacto-ovo vegetarians and no mention is made of real vegetarians ie people who eat a completely vegetarian diet (usually and incorrectly called vegans). No mention of total mortality either.

                Mirkin also commented in the succeeding issue of JAMA

                ‘Fraser et al1 have not shown that eating nuts protects vegetarians from heart attacks.
                Vegetarians are not supposed to eat meat, so they meet their needs for protein by eating dairy products, eggs, nuts, and beans. Whole-milk dairy products and eggs contain lots of saturated fat and cholesterol, the two dietary components that increase the blood cholesterol level and susceptibility to heart attacks more than any other food components. Therefore, vegetarians who restrict dairy products and eggs have to get their protein from nuts and beans, both of which are very low in saturated fat and devoid of cholesterol. So, it seems to me that the article by Fraser et al showed that restricting whole-milk dairy products and eggs prevents heart attacks.’
                https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/616917

                I think that Deb is letting her enthusiasm run away with her on this point. As I understand it, that 1992 7DA study simply doesn’t show what she says it does

                1. Thanks very much, Fumbles. Researchgate is a great source!

                  I pay careful attention to Mirkin and appreciate knowing his assessment.
                  The issue of replacement foods is the bane of all these associational studies. Makes it tough to draw secure conclusions.

      1. Gengo

        Do you have a link for that? I have seen Deb write it on multiple occasions but have never seen any such 7DA study.

        Other non-7DA studies show a mortality benefit for nut eating (but that could be a marker for health conscious individuals or the substitution effect – ie calories from nuts displacing calories from junk food, meat etc)

        1. Fumbles, I have been trying to find the video where Dr Kim Williams discusses that very question. He is neutral on nuts I guess you could say…He said the Adventist studies did not make it clear (that he could determine) if any benefit was only because the nuts were a substitution for meat for example. High calorie, high fat, high AGE’s in some cases, and not of benefit to arteries… he says ‘neutral’ .

          I buy walnuts occasionally for the omega 3, and think they probably can add variety to wfpb thats worthwhile in of itself. Nut and seed butters are a different issue.

          1. Thanks Barb. See my subsequent remarks to Gengo above, including Dr Mirkin’s comments back in 1992 on that Seventh Day Adventist study.

            1. Thank you Fumbles! I like how Mirkin cuts to the chase.
              Thing is, I quite like walnuts and other ‘featured at NF foods’, but rarely have I found a single item that gives me the result that studies claim.
              I don’t see that as a bad thing at all… I see it as that we are doing a great job in eating the Daily Dozen, and that improvements on it may be small or infrequent.

  2. Taste vs nutrition… good luck with getting the young to follow the Okinawa diet. Same with the general public here, with NF.o mavens being the exception.

    Scientists deconstructing our genes, proteins, and other things may be our best hope for saving the hoi poloi.

    Either that or electric shock behavior modification.

    1. Lonie,

      In the USA right now, we have so many young people in the hospitals for COVID-19.

      That will be because of co-morbidities.

      Disease hitting young people may change young people faster than anything.

      1. Disease hitting young people may change young people faster than anything.
        ——————————————————————————————–
        Good point, Deb.

        1. Lonie,

          There is a great big question mark on societies, plural, right now.

          Whole nations might go bankrupt, for instance.

          My worker’s wife just lost her job today and they have college loans for their child, which now they will be short by just about the exact amount the government might give to people in the plan which might pass eventually.

          I don’t have rent or mortgage or any loans and haven’t lost my job, but just about everybody around me has.

          It made me look at concepts such as whether I could live on 60% of my paycheck. I can, for sure, unless taxes and insurance and utilities go up.
          Those are out of my control, but I was taught to not worry about things that are out of my control. That is what faith is for. Right now, I have been shoring up my food supply, but people really will be in trouble if there is another round of panic buying because the emergency food, long-term food sellers online are mostly sold-out with a minimum of 2 months shipping no longer taking orders because everybody is prepping.

          Trying to be flexible enough with logic to negotiate this journey and trying to understand what is going to happen in culture is fascinatingly complicated.

          Young people are home with no place to go and nothing to do may well cause the vast majority of them to gain weight as they eat all of the junk food their parents hoarded. But parents seeing young people having diseases will lead a whole lot of families to WFPB just in time when there are no potatoes or rice or beans in so many stores and not nearly as many greens. It would be so hard to start this walk right now, but people have so much time on their hands that they could binge-watch WFPB videos for the next month and a portion of people are afraid enough health-wise that many people will find WFPB AND many people will eat their hoarded cupcakes in a week and gain 20 pounds.

          1. Deb, I see things to come very differently than you. Experienced problems give way to problem solving.

            Remembering back on 9-11, it seems the country became more serious-minded. Part of that was the fear that another attack of the 9-11 magnitude might happen in country. But even a determined enemy didn’t bring our wildest fears to pass.

            There was a time I hardly kept up with current events. Now I’m reading about this crisis or that crisis, all in my lifetime, that I was just unaware of.

            Admittedly, being ignorant is a burden… but at times, achieving ignorance can be looked back on as blissful. ‘-)

            1. Lonie,

              I have thought a lot about 9-11.

              There were a few weeks when everybody was friendlier and more cooperative and when volunteerism was up.

              Followed by crime waves and cynicism and mental health and physical health issues of the volunteers and PTSD for everyone involved at all levels.

              Mostly, I think I am fairly flexible for most things, except if the economy totally collapses.

              The Starbucks and Bed Bath & Beyond and Kohls and the malls and any retail places are closed, but I was able to get an oil change in my car today. They said that they have been literally swamped with people trying to get oil changes in case they have to close.

              1. Deb, I do not remember at all the deteriorization of society after 9-11 you speak of.

                Maybe you need to broaden your sources of information to get a bigger picture. To that end, I am posting an invitation for you (or anyone interested) to receive Covid-19 up-to-the-minute information from one of the worlds most respected people with their finger on the pulse of discovery, Peter Diamandis MD.
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                My hope is this service will deliver you “data-driven optimism” to help combat the viral growth of fear.

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      2. No, Deb. Young people are hospitalized with COVID-19 without co-morbidities.

        Hospital staff in this country are working without sufficient, or any, PPE — Personal Protective Equipment. The CDC has actually recommended that nurses use scarves or bandanas — which are about 11% effective, compared to an N95 mask, which is about 95% effective — as a last resort. And that is what they are doing. And they are becoming infected. Due to exposure. The numbers in the papers don’t reflect the reality. Hospital executives are lying about conditions in their hospitals. And staff are afraid to speak out, for fear of losing their jobs. But they go to work every day.

        I am simply devastated by this situation. I have family members who are hospital staff. And I worry every day. About them, and all hospital employees. And everyone else who has to go to work every day. To serve the rest of us. To save the rest of us.

        And yet, people in this country still refuse to take this pandemic seriously, and act accordingly. As a country, we are woefully unprepared. Despite ample warning. And even time to prepare. And yet, we still twiddle our thumbs as people sicken and die. This makes me furious.

        1. Hospital staff in this country are working without sufficient, or any, PPE — Personal Protective Equipment. The CDC has actually recommended that nurses use scarves or bandanas — which are about 11% effective, compared to an N95 mask, which is about 95% effective — as a last resort.

          As a country, we are woefully unprepared. Despite ample warning. And even time to prepare. And yet, we still twiddle our thumbs as people sicken and die. This makes me furious.
          ————————————————————
          You have every right to be furious! But mainly at the hospitals themselves. They of all institutions should have been prepared for something others have been warning about (pandemic) for years.

          If these hospitals had hired a good prepper they would have known there would have been shortages.

          And said preppers (McGyver types) would be creating work-arounds if things got out of hand… like the silver-thing cloth Deb talked about (colloidal silver has been shown to be anti-biotic.) Having such a spray available to spray onto scarves etc. for covering the nose and mouth would likely immobilize any virus that came in contact with the scarf (can’t prove this but in an emergency, intuition is king.)

          Seriously, these are times when standing around waiting for an overwhelmed in-the-box system to fix everything is not a good option. The news cycle comes on and lays the blame on some organization or dept or another. This gives the public the right to condemn that org or dept and figure the complainer has done his or her part.

          Not talking about you Dr J… you have friends and family to be concerned about and as such, a right to fret since you are probably no longer in a position to affect a change or work-around.

          Preppers think ahead… I suspect they will have more attentive audiences when they speak, in the future.

  3. Oh, this is one of my favorite comments made in response to mine (quoted second), posted on a NYT article about losing weight:

    “ Dr. J : you lost weight on a vegan diet, because the food is repulsive, tasteless and disgusting.

    You might as well say “go on a diet of only rotten, putrified garbage that you dug out of the city dump and you will lose weight”.

    NOTE: losing weight when you do not need to lose weight is not a good sign. In fact, if my husband lost 20 lbs of healthy normal weight — I’d have at the doctor’s, ASAP, to be checked for cancer.”

    And my original comment:

    “ A “diet” is a recipe for failure.

    Losing weight and maintaining that loss requires a change in eating habits — for life.

    And what to change to is well known. I first practiced portion control and making healthier choices to lose weight and keep it off. But when I switched to eating whole plant foods (avoiding processed and prepared foods and animal products), I lost another 10 lbs without meaning to, and my husband lost 20 — though we were both at what we considered healthy weights. And we’ve maintained those weights for several years.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/well/eat/how-to-lose-weight-and-keep-it-off.html#commentsContainer&permid=105840349:105840349

    LOL!! Why is that person so harsh and negative?

    1. dr j

      You take the NY Times electronically or the paper edition? If the paper edition, hang on to those… you could use them for toilet paper. ‘-)

        1. Speaking of mail… I wear gloves when I go to the mailbox to pick-up my mail. It is probably automated until the last mile where human hands become involved.

          I wonder if licking the envelope to seal it can transmit Covid-19?

          Beware of letters out of the blue from frenEMIES. ‘-(

        2. Reality bites

          Almost 50% of the people infected get diarrhea from Covid-19.

          This virus spreads by fecal matter.

          Toilet paper could save lives.

      1. This was in was fruit flies but, as you wrote, it didn’t lead to early death if the said fruit flies were given adequate amounts of water.
        —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
        Yeah, I have been drinking an adequate amount of liquids according to both our links but after reading the connection between inadequate water and death I’ve decided to drink less changed water (made into teas for instance) than before.

        My purified water tastes great when drank by itself… I just made it into various teas to get the benefits of the added tea. I’ll still do that but will also enjoy the un-adulterated water more often.

        But if I only had tap water (from a city source) I would at least draw the water and let it rest for a bit before drinking it. If from a water well (like my household source) I would at the very least pass it through a pitcher-filter before drinking it.

        And even though things like beer were invented to make water more palatable and safer to drink, I would not go that route. Dehydration from these water conversions is like a step forward and two steps back.

        Of course even a pure water like distilled should be treated carefully. That is, I would never store my distilled water in ordinary plastic containers. Some distillers come with capture jugs made of special plastics but to be on the safe side, I only store and capture in glass.

        Water from the tap is so easy, but to me, the extra time and care spent on having the purest of water is like health insurance.

        1. I’ve mentioned this before but those on an ultra low salt, very high veg/fruit diet can get hyponatremia. Vegetables and fruit have a lot of water, reducing the need for drinking it.

          This happened to me recently. It was discovered by my sports physician when I saw him to rule out rhabdomyolysis (muscle breakdown from lots of intense exercise) or at least overtraining. I was not recovering from my exercise routine and was quite fatigued all the time. When I described my ultra low salt, WF vegan diet with plenty but I thought not excessive extra water, he pointed out low sodium (~ 500 mg/d) can have those effects. He was right, a blood test showed low sodium. Since then I have upped my sodium to about 800-1000 mg/d and have completely recovered.

          1. I’ve mentioned this before but those on an ultra low salt, very high veg/fruit diet can get hyponatremia. Vegetables and fruit have a lot of water, reducing the need for drinking it.
            ——————————————————————
            Gengo, that’s interesting.

            I wonder how a sports drink geared to replacing electrolytes would affect this?

            1. No doubt they would help as there’s sodium in them. Improbably doubked my sodium intake from ~400mg to ~800mg. Ornish says you need 500 mg but I don’t think that takes individual differences (e.g. heavy exercisers vs not) into account.

              Actually I also had low sodium early, before a recent fasting blood test, when I drank a lot of H2O right before to make sure I was not dehydrated.
              Big mistake. The doctor’s office called me as it was so low it was just above being serious enough to require professional intervention (adding a lot of sodium too quickly is risky as it can cause brain swelling).

              Kidneys can process something like a cup of water every 30 minutes, if I recall that right, so sipping is recommended.

              My neighbor experienced the same problem, so I have concluded the problem is not that rare. By the way, I read that the brain has mechanisms to can cope with long term, mild hyponatremia but that does not mean it is a desirable state.

              1. Actually I also had low sodium early, before a recent fasting blood test, when I drank a lot of H2O right before to make sure I was not dehydrated.
                Big mistake. The doctor’s office called me as it was so low it was just above being serious enough to require professional intervention (adding a lot of sodium too quickly is risky as it can cause brain swelling).
                ——————————————————————
                Heh, something similar with me… that is, I drank some beet juice before lab work and they suspected blood in my urine… until I told them about the beet juice.

              2. The very low salt suggestions absolutely do not take heavy exertion into account. That is not to say that the increased salt intake will not ultimately reduce lifespan. But your intake is still well below even the strictest suggestion so your workout is likely not prohibitively strenuous. Some people work in environments where very significant amounts of salt are excreted. They are likely keeping themselves alive in the short term through increased salt intake, but reducing lifespan.

                I worked landscaping for less than a year a few decades ago. My clothes would have salt bloom visible when they were still wet from sweat. After drying when hung, they were stiff as a board and crackled when bent. Obviously I had to consume more than 1.5g salt per day or I would die. But that salt intake and the heavy labor likely reduced my lifespan in and of themselves. Live and learn. Navvies and iron puddlers were remarkable physical specimens who had very short lifespans.

                But 400mg/day is “salt is bad” thinking when in fact salt is absolutely essential. Very low amounts may be ok for very low exertion people in constantly controlled environments, but those who exercise properly will likely need more.

          2. The AHA states

            ‘The body needs only a small amount of sodium (less than 500 milligrams per day) to function properly. That’s a mere smidgen — the amount in less than ¼ teaspoon. Very few people come close to eating less than that amount. Plus, healthy kidneys are great at retaining the sodium that your body needs.
            There’s no reliable evidence that eating less than 1,500 mg per day of sodium is a risk for the general population. There is some evidence that it could be harmful to certain patients with congestive heart failure’

            But it then goes on to state

            ‘The guideline to reduce to 1,500 mg doesn’t apply to people who lose big amounts of sodium in sweat, like competitive athletes, and workers exposed to major heat stress, such as foundry workers and fire fighters, or to those directed otherwise by their healthcare provider. If you have a medical conditions or other special dietary needs or restrictions, you should follow the advice of a qualified healthcare professional’
            .https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/sodium/how-much-sodium-should-i-eat-per-day

            .

  4. A quick note on handwashing:

    The CDC actually recommends that hospitals don’t allow their employees to have long nails or artificial nails, because germs can live underneath them even after hand washing or applying sanitizer.

    1. Thanks, Reality bites.

      It will be a reminder to trim mine tonight.

      My company is open. I do know that we have people separated by way over 20 feet and that we vary the shifts and that people would be in trouble if we closed and that the big companies we supply have already pre-threatened us not to.

      Every little thing to make people safer helps.

  5. Here is an interesting study for a future video, it’s about children capacity to self regulate calories intake.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7936891
    “The best predictor of children’s ability to regulate energy intake was parental control in the feeding situation: mothers who were more controlling of their children’s food intake had children who showed less ability to self-regulate energy intake”

  6. This presents a dilemma for me… that is, while I trim the nails on one hand, I leave the other hand’s nails longer in order to dig into the peel of any citrus fruit I’m peeling.

    Probably doesn’t matter though since I don’t use soap and instead just rinse my hands often with distilled water.

  7. Okinawa diet, according to the chart Dr. Greger presented, does not appear all that healthy to me. To attribute Okinawa’s people longevity to their diet might be bit overstated. There is always a danger to rely on outcomes and conclusions based on correlation.

    For one, they didn’t have variety of foods in their diet – to have almost 70% of the same kind of food is definitely not recommended by any credible nutritionists. Especially if that food is a starchy type – in this case sweet potatoes.

    Furthermore, baked sweet potatoes tend to have notably higher glycemic index as well.

    “In fact, sweet potatoes that have been peeled and baked for 45 minutes have a GI of 94, making them a high-GI food.”

    I am not certain how Okinawa’s prepared their potatoes – boiled or baked. Boiled ones have, I think, around 54 GI.

    In addition to high GI, sweet potato also contain moderate amount of oxalates. This is not an issue if one eats sweet potatoes occasionally – but definitely it might cause problems if one’s diet is 70% sweet potatoes of their daily calory intake.

    1. You make a number of statements about eating all those sweet potatoes and their calories and oxalates.

      Clearly getting all those oxalates and calories from sweet potatoes in the context of a WFPB did not promote an epidemic of obesity, diabetes or kidney stones in those Okinawans eating a traditional diet.

      Perhaps because the glycaemic index is only part of the equation for one thing. The glycaemic load may be more important. Nor are either the whole story
      https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/the-not-so-simple-reasons-for-becoming-vegan/article23123391/

      Also, as far as kidney stones are concerned, a high plant and high oxalate diet is actually associated with a lower risk of kidney stones.
      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19679672/

      Apparent dietary risk factors in the context of a SAD may be different in the context of a healthy low fat, low animal food, low junk food WFPB diet like the traditional Okinawan diet.

    2. East Asian kitchens do not traditionally have ovens and large western style ovens are still rare today.
      The proof of the pudding is in the tasting so no credible nutritionist would ignore the historic Okinawan diet.
      Not knowing things and analytical failures are not synonymous with skepticism.

    3. Sceptic, any diet that promotes a long, healthy life is, by definition, a healthy diet. The human body is an extremely complex system that requires constant maintenance. The materials used in this maintenance must all come from one’s diet. The traditional Okinawa diet apparently measures up. To suggest that their longevity merely correlates to their diet is a bit of a stretch.

  8. These studies do not consider the effect of social support and cultural norms. For instance traditional Okinawans revered their elders- all community events centered around elders- they were respected and revered , not shuttered away in their old age like in North America. The same community responsibilities towards elders is seen in the Adventists. So, while food is important it is not the be all end all-star we have to look at populations entirely ( social, spiritual, cultural norms) and not reduce them to a pile of sweet potatoes.

    1. Sara,

      That is an interesting thought.

      Though, today, an elderly woman who has been self-isolating has just been diagnosed positive for Covid-19 even though she had almost no human contact.

      A lot of my friends just lost their jobs today and some of them don’t have food already.

      We are not having non-family members work, but I still have a job. Mainly, now each of us pretty much has our own rooms in the buildings at work. The businesses we are manufacturing for are still open so I have a little bit of a reprieve.

      A doctor at the place my cousin gets dialysis just tested positive.

      I have so many people who could die.

    2. Social support and context may be important, although you provide no evidence for your claim, but that doesn’t mean that diet is unimportant (which happily you acknowledge)..

      As I see it, your argument is correct in principle but fails to explain why Okinawans had better health/longevity than other Japanese, Koreans or Chinese since in those cultures elders have also been revered for millennia I think that this video not unreasonably suggests that diet may be the defining and meaningful difference here.

  9. Japanese women have a very long life expectancy. There are many 100 year old Japanese women. As Dr. Greger pointed out, Japanese people have an “80% full” culture of eating. I think that goes a long way to explaining their longevity. Having lived with a number of Japanese people, they didn’t eat as much vegetables as I do. But as long as they are on their traditional diet, they eat few sweets, very little sugar or refined carbs. The number one sweet in Japan is rice crackers. You don’t see rice crackers in American supermarkets, because they taste kind of awful, not really sweet to our tastes. This low quantity of sugar consumed is another important factor in their longevity. The high quantity of sugar that we consume is a major factor in our poor health as a people. It’s much more destructive than fat. One third to one half of the population over the age of 30 is estimated to have insulin resistance. These estimates come from UCLA and the CDC. Insulin resistance from a diet high in refined carbs, sugar, is probably, with obesity, the biggest danger to our health, not fat.
    For decades we were told that fat was bad. The result was an explosion in obesity that didn’t exist before and developed simultaneously with people reducing the fat in their diets and loading up on carbs. Cardiovascular inflammation caused by insulin resistance from a diet high in refined carbs is what causes heart disease and damage to the arteries, high glycemic foods. You can be a vegan and still be eating in a way that will lead to heart disease and all of the vegetables in the world won’t prevent it. If you are insulin resistant, you can’t metabolize carbs, so I question if it’s wise to recommend that the public load up on grains, which can spike blood sugar. BTW, Japanese people eat a lot of fish. My friend’s husband in Japan eats salmon for breakfast everyday, with natto. Others eat a very small fish for breakfast whose name I forget. Ever hear of sushi/sashimi? This is the traditional Japanese diet, lots of fish and very likely, as a result, less heart disease.

    1. I am not sure that talking about sugar being more harmful than fat is helpful, We see this sort of thing on loony low carb sites all the time. The statement itself is not unreasonable but on those sites it somehow morphs into statements that fat is either harmless or healthful.

      Equally common on those loony sites is one you repeat here “For decades we were told that fat was bad. The result was an explosion in obesity that didn’t exist before and developed simultaneously with people reducing the fat in their diets and loading up on carbs.”
      https://www.fns.usda.gov/USFoodSupply-1909-2010
      This is at best a half truth and a worst a down-right lie. The fact is Americans are eating fewer carbs now (both in total and especially as a proportion of total calories) and more fat than before World War1) but I think everybody accepts that there’s a darn sight more obesity and diabetes now than there was before WW1.
      https://www.fns.usda.gov/USFoodSupply-1909-2010

      The organisations and people who circulate these claims are those who attacked US dietary guidelines right from the word go. The producers of fatty foods come at it from one angle (yours), the sugar industry from another
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-mcgovern-report/

      Studies show that people eating whole grains live longer than those who don’t. As for ‘all of the vegetables in the world won’t prevent it.’, that appears to be true of eating meat Eating all sorts of fruit and vegetables appears not to save meat eaters from the consequences of their dietary choices

      ‘Conclusion: High intakes of red meat were associated with a higher risk of all-cause and CVD mortality. The increased risks were consistently observed in participants with low, medium, and high FV consumption.’
      https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/104/4/1137/4557128

      Believing the claims of low carb gurus and websites seems a pretty risky business to me

      ‘Compared to participants with the highest carbohydrate consumption, those with the lowest intake had a 32% higher risk of all-cause death over an average 6.4-year follow-up. In addition, risks of death from coronary heart disease, cerebrovascular disease, and cancer were increased by 51%, 50%, and 35%, respectively.

      The results were confirmed in a meta-analysis of seven prospective cohort studies with 447,506 participants and an average follow-up 15.6 years, which found 15%, 13%, and 8% increased risks in total, cardiovascular, and cancer mortality with low (compared to high) carbohydrate diets.

      Professor Banach said: “Low carbohydrate diets might be useful in the short term to lose weight, lower blood pressure, and improve blood glucose control, but our study suggests that in the long-term they are linked with an increased risk of death from any cause, and deaths due to cardiovascular disease, cerebrovascular disease, and cancer.”‘
      https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180828085922.htm

      Incidentally, this site doesn’t advocate ‘vegan’ diets. It states that, based on the evidence, .whole food plant based diets appear to be the healthiest,

      1. I have come to expect your knee jerk distortions of what I write and ad hominem attacks, calling people who disagree with you looney. If you don’t see the dangers of sugar and simple carbs, you are very blind and very foolish. I am not advocating for eating meat. High amounts of saturated fat may damage the endothelium. I am mostly a pescaterian who eats more vegetables than most vegans. Insulin resistance and obesity are two of the biggest health issues facing people today. Insulin resistance means pre-diabetes, blood sugar out of control, and millions of people have it, or full-blown diabetes and don’t know that they have it, including people who comment here.

        ou can have a fasting blood sugar of say 83 and still be diabetic. There was no obesity when I was growing up, despite the fact that everyone was a big meat eater. It isn’t meat that is making people fat. Saying that doesn’t mean that I am advocating for eating meat.
        UCLA estimates that 55% of people in Ca. are insulin resistant/pre-diabetic. People who are insulin resistant cannot manage carbohydrates and it’s probably harmful to their health to tell them to eat a diet high in whole grains. These people need to be on a low net carb diet, net carbs meaning carbs minus fiber, in order to control their blood sugar and avoid damaging their hearts. They can eat a whole plant food diet, they can eat animal protein too, but they have to limit their carbs to prevent heart disease. Many prominent physicians recommend a low carb diet to people who are insulin resistant and also to prevent pre-diabetes. One example is Ford Brewer, MD who is the former head of preventive medicine at John Hopkins. We have to solve the obesity/insulin resistance/ diabetes problem. Telling obese people not to eat meat is not the solution to their problem. Putting them on a low net carbs diet is the solution. We cannot have a one-size-fits-all diet because so many people over the age of 30 are sick and don’t know it. There are other benefits of low carb diets. A study that was published this week found that low carb diets stabilize brain networks, while high glucose diets impair them and suggests that low carb diets could prevent Alzheimer’s which starts in the late 40’s. It’s interesting that the explosion in obesity has been paralleled by an explosion in Alzheimer’s. It’s not a fat problem, it’s a carb problem.

        1. alan,

          My brother was diagnosed with T2 diabetes (along with several other conditions), as I’ve mentioned here before. After he suffered a heart attack at age 66, he changed his eating habits to whole plant foods (from vegetarian), and eventually lost 70 lbs, and went off most of his meds, including for T2 diabetes. (He’s still on the lowest dose of a high BP med). But he eats whole grains. As well as veggies and fruits, legumes (beans, chickpeas, lentils, and split peas), and nuts and seeds in moderation. He avoids processed foods, which includes simple carbohydrates such as added sugar and flour. He does exercise, but I think he might have done that before his heart attack.

          And his is not the only case; I’ve read many similar examples. In fact, there are several videos on this site that report nutrition research results that support a whole plant food diet for diabetes; you can find them by searching for “diabetes” in the search bar. I’d be interested to know your comments after you’ve looked at them; you can even check out the sources cited.

          Perhaps you can share some of the studies you mention by providing citations to nutrition science research articles published in peer reviewed journals? Because that is what is reviewed on this site.

          Finally, correlation is not causation. EG: “Who knew that the number of people who drowned by falling into a swimming-pool correlates with the number of films Nicolas Cage appeared in? And who could anticipate that the per capita consumption of cheese correlates with the number of people who died by becoming tangled in their bedsheets?” https://www.fastcompany.com/3030529/hilarious-graphs-prove-that-correlation-isnt-causation (There are a lot more examples; they are hilarious.)

          1. Dr. J,

            I’m glad that your brother is doing well on a WPF diet. However, the fact that he was at least 70 pounds overweight proves my point. You become obese from loading up on bad carbs, refined junk carbs like chips, pretzels, cake, cookies, ice cream, bread, pasta, and sugary drinks of all kinds, grains too. It’s primarily a carb problem and it leads to insulin resistance/ blood sugar problems, which is pre-diabetes and then to diabetes. It’s estimated that half of adults over 30 have high blood sugar problems, even more in certain age groups, but they don’t know it.

            Your brother is getting a significant benefit from not eating simple and processed carbs. A diet low in net carbs, carbs minus fiber can be high in vegetables and include legumes. It wouldn’t include whole grains for a diabetic because grains drive up blood sugar.

            You say that your brother is doing well and if so, that is good. But how do you know that? Do you know what his blood sugar is 1-6 hours after eating? Has he ever had a 6 hour blood glucose tolerance test in which he is challenged with a high glucose input to test his body’s response over several hours? Do you know that blood sugar may not be high 1 hour after eating, but can shoot up to 2-300 in subsequent hours? I know of a diabetic with fasting blood sugar of 83 for whom this is true. Your brother probably doesn’t know what his body’s response is to what he eats, either his blood sugar or his insulin level.

            Does he have periodic checks of his arteries? What kind? Has he ever had a coronary artery calcium score? This is a very good predictor of longevity and heart attack risk. He should have had such a scan years ago to serve as a baseline and then periodic followup scans to make sure that is heart disease is not progressing. A low carb diet has been found to freeze and even lower such scores. ( low carb means low NET carbs, carbs minus fiber and can include lots of vegetables, but limited fruit, mostly berries. the purpose is to prevent sugar spikes, insulin spikes and cardiovascular inflammation)

            Has he ever had a CIMT? Probably no one here even knows what that is, yet it is vitally important. It stands for Carotid Intima Media Thickness test. This is an ultrasound, but different from the ultrasound that most cardiologists give their patients. That kind of ultrasound only measures blood flow through the coronary arteries. It misses substantial blockages.

            CIMT is also an ultrasound, but it takes about 600 measurements of plaque in the artery walls and rates your risk of heart attack. Most heart attacks are not caused by blockage of an artery. As many as 80% are caused by soft, inflamed, liquedy plaque within the layers of the artery walls that breaks through the artery wall, reacts with the blood and forms clots which travel to the brain or heart and cause heart attacks or strokes. The intima and media are layers within the artery walls where plaque builds up.

            Everyone from middle age onward, maybe 40 and older needs to have a CIMT or coronary artery calcium scan, or both, to determine whether they have plaque in their arteries, whether hard, soft, or heterogenous to determine their risk of heart attack and stroke. Without these tests (or an equivalent more invasive test) and a 6 hour glucose tolerance test there is no way to determine how your brother is really doing and whether or not his heart disease is progressing. The same applies to you yourself and everybody else. If these tools were routinely adopted it would lead to a great reduction in heart attacks and strokes, because a lot of people will then lose weight and improve their eating habits.

            1. Yep. Chugging sugary drinks and gorging on sweets is bad. Duh.

              Your insistence upon ignoring the benefit of whole grains and other whole foods is in direct contradiction to the citation supported information on this site.

              Your trying to sound authoritative about testing is completely absurd. Would you suggest to the historic 40 year old Okinawans that they should all be tested for cardiovascular health problems that THEY DID NOT HAVE?

              You would have us eat a proven bad diet that creates poor health. Then you would insist we get tested to verify that…yep…your suggested diet is terrible and WILL cause cardiovascular disease. Insanity.

              Meat consumption in the US has changed from increasing to decreasing consumption. The recent amazing change in eating habits in the US really has the Atkins/keto/paleo shills becoming ever more strident. I wish I could say that advocating a bad diet then insisting we get tested to see known bad health implications from that diet really takes the cake. But we have and will continue to see even more ridiculous suggestions.

              Apparently, putting butter in your coffee frees you from the shackles of reason.

              1. Are you sure you are directing your comment to me Jack? I don’t see any connection to what I have written. Your attack on me is mindless, irrational and intemperate. I wrote several comments today in which I said that I was NOT advocating for eating meat and that too much saturated fat can, or is supposed to, damage the endothelium. I also said that I was mainly a pescaterian. So where do you come off slamming me for advocating a paleo, keto or Atkins diet. You won’t see any of these words in my comments. So you are creating and demolishing a straw man. Nor did I ignore or deny the benefits of whole foods in general. You won’t see that in any of my comments today. Are you sure you are okay? Further, I wrote today that I eat more vegetables than most vegans, which is probably true. Here is a typical lunch or dinner for me: a large bowl of steamed kale, with spinach or collard greens, red or green cabbage or both, broccoli, often with broccoli sprouts, arugula whenever I can get it, fresh string beans, asparagus, carrots or pumpkin, chick peas, red and orange peppers, onions, 1/2 avocado, mushrooms, tomato, pumpkin and sunflower seeds and EVOO. To this I add 2.5-3 oz. of wild, Alaska red salmon. In addition, I eat a lot of cauliflower, especially orange or purple when I can get it, orange colored squash, egg plant and brussel sprouts. Fruits I eat are mostly berries, blueberries, blackberries, strawberries and rasberries. Others I eat very sparingly.

                You obviously don’t understand what I was saying about a large percentage of AMERICAN adults over 30 (thanks for distorting my meaning) not being able to metabolize carbohydrates and thereby having blood sugar that is out of control. And they don’t even know that they have this condition. There is an obesity crisis, a pre-diabetes crisis, an insulin resistance crisis, which is the same thing, and a diabetes crisis. If you want to stick your head in the sand and deny these facts, go right ahead. I’m not addressing you. These individuals cannot handle the blood sugar and insulin spikes that come from eating grains and simple carbs. (Not talking about vegetables) And yes, the path to a solution is for adults over the age of 30 to have a glucose tolerance test and older individuals, especially those who are overweight should also get a CIMT or coronary artery calcium scan as I wrote in my previous comment. People have to understand the risk that they have for heart disease and heart attack, before it happens to them. How will they know this without testing? People are having heart attacks at younger and younger ages, even in their 20’s, because they are consuming huge amounts of sugar. I have laid out the way to reverse this and also to save a lot of older people who don’t know their risk for heart attack.

            2. Alan – Cyrus Khambatta, PhD has his PhD in diabetes. You might consider reading his book: Mastering Diabetes with Robby Barbaro, MPH.

              1. Thanks, but I don’t have diabetes and don’t read books about it. I’m sure there are different approaches to treating diabetes. Carb restriction is probably the most common way and I have read many accounts of people who have reversed their type 2 diabetes with a low carb diet. Dr. Jason Fung is a world-leading expert on diabetes and uses the low carb diet to treat diabetes. Dr. Bernstein is another doctor who comes to mind using the same approach.

        2. Sorry Alan but, as someone once wrote, Atkins (and his ilk) has been responsible for more deaths than World War 2. There is no reason to pull punches here – these people are dangerous. They need to be recognised for what they are.

          As for your claim that there was no obesity when you were growing up, I have to say “really?” According to Wikipedia, US obesity rates had already reached 23% by 1962 Lord knows what the overweight rates were. The obesity epidemic didn’t begin decades ago following The McGovern report and dietary guidelines advising restricting fats (and sugars). The McGovern Report and ddietary guidelines came about because of the explosion in US obesity and heart disease rates.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States

          Their arguments are deceptive. Take another of their statements that you repeat here ‘It’s not a fat problem, it’s a carb problem.’ This is a false dichotomy that shouldn’t fool a bright 10-year old. It’s both (as well as excess calories) and this has been known for a very long time. The US dietary guidelines have been saying from the very beginning that Americans need to limit both fat and sugar, and eat adequate amounts of fibre. The very first set of guidelines stated that complex carbohydrates are better (than simple carbs) and that these should replace fats and sugars. Despite attempts by low carb gurus to rewrite this fact.
          https://www.dietaryguidelines.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/1980%20DGA.pdf

          Yes, low carb diets can mask some symptoms of type 2 diabetes but what are the long term outcomes of removing fibre-containing complex carbs from the diet of type 2 diabetics?

          ‘During a median follow-up of 9.2 y, 791 deaths were recorded, 306 due to CVD. Dietary fiber was inversely associated with all-cause mortality risk (adjusted HR per SD increase, 0.83 [95% CI, 0.75–0.91]) and CVD mortality risk (0.76[0.64–0.89]). No significant associations were observed for glycemic load, glycemic index, carbohydrate, sugar, or starch.’
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3426551/

          The fact is that fibre is a carbohydrate. Pretending it isn’t by invoking some bizarre verbal formula of low net carb is simply confusing. Perhaps that is the intent. The evidence indicates that simple carbs (ie carbs minus fibre) are unhealthful but high fibre diets are healthful. Not just reducing mortality in type 2 diabetics but reducing mortality in chronic diseases virtually across the board

          ‘People who eat higher levels of dietary fibre and whole grains have lower rates of non-communicable diseases compared with people who eat lesser amounts, while links for low glycaemic load and low glycaemic index diets are less clear. Observational studies and clinical trials conducted over nearly 40 years reveal the health benefits of eating at least 25g to 29g or more of dietary fibre a day, according to a series of systematic reviews and meta-analyses published in The Lancet.’
          https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190110184737.htm

          Fibre is found in foods described as complex carbohydrates. Advocating low carb diets is unhealthful even if it is done by some low carb physician or other. And if you really think that the ’eminence’ of physicians and other scientists is important, why don’t you take notice of the major reports on nutrition, diet and health produced by panels of world-class physicians, scientists and other researchers? None of them seem to think that low carb diets are healthful
          https://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/obesity/WHO_TRS_916/en/
          https://health.gov/our-work/food-nutrition/2015-2020-dietary-guidelines/advisory-report
          https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/446188/SACN_Carbohydrates_Press_Release_July_2015.

          This video discusses the traditional Okinawan diet. If low carb dogmma were true, those Okinawans eating that diet should have had poor health, high rates of diabetes and Alzheimer’s and a realtively short lifespan. They had none of those things it appears yet their diet was 85% carbs and only 6% fat. That seems like a pretty effective refutation of low carb claims to me.
          https://www.researchgate.net/publication/5859391_Caloric_Restriction_the_Traditional_Okinawan_Diet_and_Healthy_Aging_The_Diet_of_the_World's_Longest-Lived_People_and_Its_Potential_Impact_on_Morbidity_and_Life_Span

          If you come here and post the false assertions of low carbers, you must expect to be challenged on them. Especially when you present them as indisputable facts. If you don’t like my terms for those people and their websites let me remind you that those diets kill people and that they are not recommended by national or international health authorities anywhere in the world (except in some very specific circumstances such as intractable paediatric epilepsy or morbid obesity where other diets might have failed).
          https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190110184737.htm

          1. I am not advocating for the Atkins diet with its unlimited amounts of meat eating. I have made that crystal clear in my comments, even mentioning in detail the healthy diet that I eat. So, like a few others you are attacking me for something I am not advocating. That is intellectually dishonest. I eat a pretty high fiber diet with lots of vegetables and some legumes. I have no problems with fiber in my diet. No, I don’t remember any obesity problem when I was growing up and I was around in 1962. It was rare to see an obese person.

            You have totally ignored what I have been saying, which again is intellectually dishonest, which is what I have come to expect from you. I never said that everyone needed to give up complex carbohydrates, only people who cannot metabolize them and who get blood sugar spikes where their blood glucose remains at an unhealthy, high level hours after eating them. And that means about half of the adult population in this country. And I am not saying that those people need to give up all complex carbs, because legumes are important to health. Those individuals do need to keep their carbs at a low level, because they have pre-diabetes or diabetes and don’t even know they have these conditions. And there are tens of millions of them. We know that diabetes predisposes to heart disease, heart attacks and shorter life expectancy. The massive numbers of people with insulin resistance and full-blown diabetes is the reason why heart disease is the number one killer. As for fat, I noted that saturated fat is bad for the endothelium, so yes the combination of saturated fat and sugar and simple carbs is destroying the health of a big part of the population.

            1. Alan

              I have addressed a number of very specific statements that you have made which are found endlessly repeated on low carb websites despite being factually incorrect. For example

              ‘It’s not a fat problem, it’s a carb problem.’
              ‘There was no obesity when I was growing up’
              ‘It’s primarily a carb problem and it leads to insulin resistance/ blood sugar problems, which is pre-diabetes and then to diabetes.’
              etc etc

              Also like those low carb websites you come along pushing CIMT and CAC scores and de-emphasise traditional risk factors (because they almost always show that low carb diets are risky). As for CIMT and CAC scores, they can be very useful but

              ‘Although both CIMT and CACS can characterize subclinical atherosclerosis, the correlation between the 2 measures is weak, probably because coronary calcification is a more advanced stage of vascular disease.19,20 Therefore, for young to middle-aged patients with plaque that has not yet calcified, a CACS of zero may be falsely reassuring.’
              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2664607/

              As for the great diabetes expert of low carbers, Fung, well sure, he makes lots of sweeping claims in books and YouTube videos but where is the evidence? He has published precisely one paper on tackling diabetes and that discussed only intermittent fasting. It did not even mention low carb diets. Also, that was about case studies of just three patients, Case studies are easy pickings for alternative health gurus. Consider this. Hypothetically, you have 100 patients – perhaps no benefits are seen in 97 so you write up case studies of the remaining three and suggest/imply that this proves the efficacy of your approach.
              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6194375/

              As for intellectual dishonesty, Alan, you keep telling us you have no problem with complex carbs and fibre but you continue damning all carbohydrates indiscriminately eg
              ‘It’s not a fat problem, it’s a carb problem.’
              ‘It’s primarily a carb problem and it leads to insulin resistance/ blood sugar problems, which is pre-diabetes and then to diabetes.’

              if it was primarily a carb problem as you maintain then all those Okinawans eating an 85% carb diet must have had diabetes. They didn’t. Yes refined carbs are bad. That doesn’t mean that all carbs are bad – except to low carbers it appears. So are grains without exception it seems. Apparently, actual evidence is irrelevant to low carbers if it conflicts with their beliefs.

              Regarding your that many Americans need to avoid carbs, may I remind you that dietary fibre is a carb and low dietary fibre intake appears to be a significant risk factor for mortality in diabetics

              1. It has really become impossible to reply to your comments, because you ignore and distort what I say. And that’s the best that I can say for you. Whether it crosses the line into lying, I don’t know.
                Anyone who has read my comments on this topic will see that I am not recommending a low carb diet for everyone, but only for people who are insulin resistant and can’t digest carbs. I said this over and over. Itjust happens that this is the case for millions of adults according to the CDC and UCLA, a large %of the population.
                And low carb does not mean low in vegetables, it does not mean not eating some legumes, it does not mean low in fiber and it does not mean eating a lot of meat. I said in more than one comment that it’smy understanding that saturated fat can damage the endothelium. I gave an example of what I typicallyeat, which contains plenty of fiber.
                When I grew up in the 1950’s, obesity was not a common health issue. You rarely saw obese people,and people who were really fat suffered ridicule. Obesity exploded much later with the advent of lowfat diets.  You say that I am “pushing” CIMT and CAC scores, while acknowledging that they can be useful. I didnot say that young people should have CAC scans. So don’t misattribute that to me. I did say that adults over the age of 30 should have CIMTs, because they can detect plaque, including soft, uncalcified plaque, the most dangerous kind and young adults need to know whether or not they have it and arealready on the path to heart disease.
                People over 40 should have CAC scores, because we know that men and women in their early 40’s have heart attacks and do not even know that they are at risk. Not everyone will have a 0 score. Manypeople already have high CAC scores in their 40’s.  A CAC score of 0 is just a baseline score. It’s just a snapshot of the condition of their arteries at one point in time. They can then follow that up with another CAC score 5 years later, in the same way that you get a colonoscopy periodically. As I said in one comment, people are having heart attacks now in their 20’s. They already have heart disease atthat young age. So, yes, these tests are extremely important and potentially life saving. It’s impossibleto understand why you would be against them. And these are not the only valuable tests that peopleshould have. Even young people should have at least a 2 hour oral blood glucose and insulin test, which would give their fasting glucose and insulin and the same at 1 and 2 hours. In this way, we wouldcatch at a young age, those who are already on their way to pre-diabetes and diabetes and tryto direct them to a healthier way of eating. And that means excluding from their diets whatever foods spiketheir insulin levels and in particularly bad cases, keep their insulin levels continuously high. 

                Further, I am clearly not “damning all carbohydrates  indiscriminately.” My comments prove that thatis a ridiculous statement, including mentioning my own diet which is high in high fiber carbs,mainly from vegetables. I made it so clear in my comments, (read my comment in reply to Dr. J) thatI am talking about the quantity of sugar and simple carbs that people consume and yes, thisis why so many people become insulin resistant and can’t digest certain carbs like grains and pasta.
                As for the Okinawa diet it is irrelevant to what I am saying. First of all, I have read about a differenttraditional diet that Okinawans used to eat, which by the way, included a lot of pork. As a side note,in Sardinia, which is a Blue Zone, people also eat a lot of pork. The reason I say the Okinawan dietis irrelevant to my point is that I am only talking about people who are insulin resistant. That wasnot true of Okinawans as far as I know. Japanese people on a traditional diet don’t eat much sugar,and don’t have the problems with blood sugar that Americans have.

                1. There that intellectual honesty issue again Alan. You wrote

                  ‘Further, I am clearly not “damning all carbohydrates indiscriminately.” My comments prove that thatis a ridiculous statement, ‘

                  However you also wrote

                  ‘‘It’s not a fat problem, it’s a carb problem.’
                  ‘It’s primarily a carb problem and it leads to insulin resistance/ blood sugar problems, which is pre-diabetes and then to diabetes.’

                  If those statements don’t damn all carbs indiscriminately, then I’m a Dutchman.

                  Your continued insistence that the healthy longevity of Okinawans on an 85% carb and 6% fat diet is irrelevant to your claim that carbs are the cause of diabetes and related health problems in many Americans is inexplicable. Especially since we know that fibre is a type of carbohydrate and that at least among among European diabetics it is INVERSELY associated with mortality

                  ‘During a median follow-up of 9.2 y, 791 deaths were recorded, 306 due to CVD. Dietary fiber was inversely associated with all-cause mortality risk (adjusted HR per SD increase, 0.83 [95% CI, 0.75–0.91]) and CVD mortality risk (0.76[0.64–0.89]). No significant associations were observed for glycemic load, glycemic index, carbohydrate, sugar, or starch.’
                  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3426551

                  Probably I am just not bright enough to follow low carb logic though. Clearly, the world scientific and medical communities aren’t either. It’s just tragic.

                2. NYG, I happen to agree that **some** prediabetics ( as defined by HbA1c tests) and T2D people cannot tolerate a lot of whole food carbs. My wife happens to be one of them. Her problem started after age 50 with slowly rising A1c results (5.4 up to 6.2). (I have speculated that it might be a hormonal issue related to menopause). She knows from home testing her reaction to dozens of foods over several months exactly what and how much she can tolerate. If she eats more than a certain total amount of whole grains or beans, her blood sugar level will spike over 140, which is the level above which cells get damaged. In her case, whole grains like 1/2 cup cooked oat groats are no different than eg. 1/2 cup split pea soup. She controls spikes effectively by doing high intensity intervals on an exercise bike after eating significant carbs (mornings are much worse). I know two other prediabetic women over 50.

                  But it seems to me you are overstating your case, if I understand your view. My wife is very skinny and athletic. So her problem is not overeating, and excess fat in muscles, liver or pancreas is not making her insulin resistant. Most/many prediabetics, on the other hand, are overweight or obese, and so typically insulin resistant from fat in cells.
                  It is this group, the majority I think, that can reverse their insulin resistance by losing sufficient weight, and they can do this effectively, and arguably preferably, on a high carb, low fat WF diet.

                  You seem to be conflating these two groups as far as I can tell.

                  By the way, no one with a modicum of knowledge and probably no one that listens to Dr.Greger thinks too many calories and being overweight or obese are not the major drivers of T2D and prediabetes, as well as various other chronic health conditions. The cause is not just carbs and sugars; it’s also the vast amount of fat people eat. Over time, people in the US have increased consumption of meat, fats and sugars.

                  Fumbles was 100% right on that. I doubt he would disagree with the view that people who demonstrably cannot tolerate a lot of carbs should reduce consumption of them. Seems obvious.

                  But that seems to be a special case, not the rule. The question is what is the root cause of a person’s diabetes/prediabetes. It’s not a black and white situation.

                  maintain calories, she eats a lot of nuts and seeds (~ 30% of calories per day).

                  1. Yes, apparently there is a group of people with a late onset form of Type 1 diabetes – often called type 1.5 diabetes (or LADA) – who can be misdiagnosed as Type 2 diabetics which confuses this issue’

                    According to Diabetes UK ………….. ” Misdiagnosis as having type 2 diabetes is common. Around 15-20% of people diagnosed with type 2 diabetes may actually have Type 1.5 diabetes”
                    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/type15-diabetes.html

                    Doctors of slim athletic people with adult onset diabetes will need to consider if LADA is a possibilty rather than standard T2D

                    Treatment will not be the same.

                    There’s also something called MODY but that’s a different matter again.

  10. Dr. Greger,
    Can Elderberry fight off CV-19 by boosting our immune system since it is a high level antioxidant. But concern is the interaction as its anti inflammation effects might make the person more prone to getting the CV -19. Something about ace and up regulation.
    Pls advise in a video.
    Thk you for everything u do!

    1. Unfortunately there is no way to know without a clinical study that actually tests this in humans. Even if it were tested, it would likely be years until the study is published in a peer reviewed journal.

    2. Soli, like Ben said, you could only say if it were actually tested, but it’s always a good idea to eat a healthy diet and keep up the immune system. Our diets should in general be high in antioxidants and be an anti-inflammatory diet as a WFPB diet naturally is. I can say in total confidence that you shouldn’t worry about getting sick from eating healthy whole plant foods due to their anti-inflammatory benefits. Now an inflammatory diet on the other hand could be a real disaster for our immune system in the short but especially long term.

  11. Hello everybody

    Once every hundred million years or so, I find out something new and amazing about WFPB.

    So yesterday I was watching a Nutritionfacts video about the glycemic response of grains getting gradually worse when you make the whole wheat kernel smaller and finer. Example; whole oats better compared to oat meal.

    But this effect is not seen in (most) fruits and vegetables, as you might know (blueberries,mango) you can blender these and the GI doesn’t get worse.

    What I did not know was that the GI response for legume flours does not worsen compared to eating the whole legumes! Isn’t that amazing? So can someone confirm here that this equates to “Eating chickpea flour = just as healthy as eating chickpeas?”.

    Greetings.

    1. Netgogate, actually there is a video on here specific to powered beans/legumes! :) Somewhat new. I don’t remember the name so you’ll have to search for it. Maybe someone else remembers.

  12. The only effect that I can think of out of my head is that using legume flours makes the meal more palatable to consume which could result in getting in more calories compared to intact legumes. Thus increased calorie intake. Not necessarily an unhealthy quality. But something to keep in mind. Anything else?

  13. I was watching MedMastery talking about South Korea using zinc and chloroquine and I looked up chloroquine studies and in malaria quinine was really good, way better than chloroquine. But they are talking about zinc uptake and I don’t know if I can take Quinine leg cramp pills with zinc or PQQ or drink quinine water or give all of those, plus zinc to my cousin whose life I feel strongly that I would like to save. Boy, I wish Dr. Greger was having a daily video series. I will wait for the webinar, but I am buying some quinine and I will be taking zinc and really would like to know if I could recommend those to my cousin or not and I don’t understand science well enough, but I do know that I can watch video after video after video and find things to try. If it was me, it would just be to try it, but he is vulnerable. Would quinine water and zinc possibly hurt him?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIymfznD7YA

        1. I am also doing coffee wrong if zinc is important right now.

          Zinc absorption is reduced if coffee is drunk within an hour after a meal

  14. Off topic. Does anyone know if there is any good information out there that might help answer my question on whether wild oregano oil may kill good bacteria? Or the effects of topical use negative or positive? Or even any good information as to why or how so many plants are effective at killing or preventing the growth of harmful bacteria but not negatively impacting good bacteria… One of the videos on here in regards to oral health actually helped explain this and it was fascinating and if memory serves that was with green tea and amla, but I wonder more about gut flora and what concentrated doses even in small amounts may or may not do and also why. Searching pubmed can be so tiresome. There is so much, so many animal studies, and it’s so hard to find answers to the specific questions you’re looking for sometimes.

    1. S, as to whether oil of oregano kills good bacteria, I don’t know that there are formal tests on that. My experience is that patients who use it short term, do not show any ill effects.
      There is evidence that it does kill certain pathogenic bacteria, and some virus strains. Also can remove the biofilm that protect some types of microorganisms.
      I haven’t mentioned any natural anti-virals, because I get tired of the wrangling on here. Also very busy now as many people are sick.
      But, since you asked, these articles may be of interest to you.
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3768712/
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6182053/

      1. Marilyn,

        Thank you for sharing the natural anti-virals.

        It might save one of our lives to try things like those.

        Most of us are going to be touched by this.

        Praying for everybody.

        1. Praying for everybody.
          ———————————–
          I’ve been giving prayer some thought lately and have come to the conclusion it could be related to Einstein’s Spooky Quantum Entanglement (something that happens to a something in one place simultaneously happens to another something in another place, simultaneously.)

          It could also explain voodoo where poking a pin in a doll affects who is represented by the doll.

          So, prayers accepted… but please!… no voodoo! ‘-)

        2. That is sweet, Deb! Praying too. 99.99999% for the health of all (I heard fur babies can get it too, so keep them safe as well!), and a little because I don’t want shopping for toiletries and cleaning products to be like an expedition anymore.

          1. S,

            I agree about the shopping for toiletries and cleaning products.

            Honestly, I ended up doing a little bit of panic shopping today because it was the last day of most of the stores around here and yes, there are still no paper products anywhere. No napkins or paper towels or toilet paper or Kleenex. I don’t even know how parents of babies are handling the no baby wipes thing.

            They assure us that there isn’t a real shortage. It has just been a few weeks with zero paper products anywhere.

            I have enough, but still just seeing the empty aisles with everything did get me to panic shop, not at the grocery store, but I went to the stores that are closing and bought things I have thought about getting before and couldn’t decide.

            I also got in 5 pound bags of things like red lentils and dark red kidney beans.

            I have enough food and I have batteries and I have enough cleaning supplies and I have enough of everything now, except the things like greens that I buy every week.

            I have nothing at all to panic about. The virus is in my town, but it is everywhere.

            But it genuinely is the empty shelves that caused the inner sensation of panic more than the virus itself.

            Today when I went to the stores, I had that strong feeling that many of the stores won’t survive this type of an economic hit.

            I know that is secondary to the pandemic and I agree with the concept that they have to close and I just emotionally felt fear and bought things.

            I am finished with every buying list and my car is topped off with fluids and I have everything.

            It just is emotionally overwhelming.

            1. I do feel like God has walked me through everything ahead of time though.

              I even had looked up how to make non-slimy oat milk and had bought the oats.

              Thing after thing I did that I can look around my house and work and say, “It is as if God said, “Nope, my daughter needs a lot of help and there is a pandemic coming.”

              I even had bought the right supplements because Vitamin Shoppe was closing down, so I minorly panic-shopped there, too, but got things like zinc and I don’t usually take it, but it is on the list.

            2. Yeah, well the empty shelves induced by panic shoppers over the virus cause more panic shopping simply because people don’t know if they’re going to be able to get something they need when they need it, now. It’s a vicious cycle.

              The economic blow freaking sucks, at least Trump is giving tax breaks or something to businesses impacted by it. China should have to pay because they handled this so horribly and let it spread to the world. The whole world should be just furious with the Chinese government… for yet ANOTHER reason, that is….

      2. Interesting… I’ve been adding a few drops of watered down oregano oil to my cups of tea for quite some time now, but never considered using it for any skin infection. Filing that away in my memory banks.

        1. Yeah, Lonie, it’s something I’ve wondered about considering it’s my understanding that it has the ability to kill things as strong as MRSA, which is pretty incredible. Natural things like this always peak my curiosity but you’d want to know what kind of effect it would have on things like healthy skin cells and the healing process, etc. I wish they would do more research on potential natural alternatives for so many things–I know we could discover so much more if it weren’t so much about profit and instead useful knowledge.

          1. Natural things like this always peak my curiosity but you’d want to know what kind of effect it would have on things like healthy skin cells and the healing process, etc. I wish they would do more research on potential natural alternatives for so many things…
            ——————————————————————————————————————————————————
            Bam! I have a couple of crusty spots on the back of one of my hands… They are almost gone as I have been treating them with guava leaf tea (not the teabags but actual guava leaves to make the tea.)

            But I just put some oregano essential oil ( cut in strength by adding some distilled water) to see what happens.

            I’m unconcerned about any damage… this is something (oregano flakes) I add to almost every soup-like dish I heat up or cook. Sometimes I leave the pot on the magnetic induction cooker overnight when there is no room in the fridge.

            I believe that keeps the left-overs safe from any bacterial build-up until I re-heat by boiling the next day. I only do this in the cool of winter. Even Oregano might not protect during the heat of summer.

              1. Lonie, let us know how it goes with your hand from the oregano oil.
                ———————————————————————————————-
                Heh, I had forgotten I had rubbed that on last night. ‘-)

                Just now rubbed my finger over eat place I dabbed with the oregano and one or two of the little tiny (pencil point sized) bumps were reduced and softened. The more crusty spot was soft and a little bit oily but not reduced to the eye.

                And while the skin has its own set of (good) biotics, I’m not sure how the oregano affects that naturally occurring biome.

                I’ve got a crusty spot on my right hand. I’ll continue treating that hand and skin with the guava leaf tea and will treat the left hand and skin with the oregano.

                I’ll do that for at least a week and will report back here when done. (If I forget, poke me with a stick to make me remember ‘-)

              2. Lonie, let us know how it goes with your hand from the oregano oil.
                ———————————————————————————————
                S, it has been about a week and I’ve got small things to report. For one, the crusty bump I put the watered-down oregano oil on had a redness around it. This has been the case anytime I noticed the bump. (Not concerned about it so seldom aware of it.)

                Just noticed the bump is a little smaller and not as crusty. And, no redness. In truth the bump is hardly noticeable but by rubbing a finger over it, one knows it is still there, just slightly softer.

                However, the other bump (with the guava leaf tea) is pretty much the same as the other bump in appearance. It did start smaller but when I rub my finer over it, it seems less crusty but slightly harder.

                However #2: I was taking some CBD oil one evening and after reading the link below, instinctively dabbed a drop of CBD oil on both spots. I have no idea what effect that may have had on things. Sorry for spoiling the original experiment.

                However #3, I think I can say with confidence that the oregano oil does no harm to the skin. (I rubbed it up and down my forearm and did the same with guava leaf tea on the other forearm.

                After a week, I can see no difference.

                https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-03/uosd-nsc032420.php

                P.S. notice at the bottom of the page there is mention that “McMaster University in Canada, researchers have found that another cannabis compound, CBG cured mice of MRSA infections as effectively as vancomycin, a drug widely considered to be the last line of defence against drug-resistant microbes. This study is currently under review at the ACS Infectious Diseases journal.”

      3. Thanks for your response and links, Marilyn! I’ve taken oreganol before for about a week at a time or 5 days and never noticed any negative side effects and it seemed to have helped with viruses. I’ve wondered about the good bacteria for a while, but the reason I brought the question back up was because I’ve been debating on taking a couple drops a day preemptively right now but wouldn’t want it to mess with my microbiome which is just a hypothetical but I’ve seen the question brought up before.

    2. There’s no evidence that this stuff discriminates between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ microbes ….. how could it possibly do that?

      I suspect that many of the claims are just marketing hype by manufacturers and retailers. High proof whisky will also kill germs in a test tube. That doesn’t mean we should be drinking whisky to protect against the coronavirus. It might be a good substitute hand sanitiser though.

      This below might be worth a read

      https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/oil-of-oregano/

      1. There’s no evidence that this stuff discriminates between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ microbes ….. how could it possibly do that?
        ——————————————————————————————————————
        Pretty sure I’ve read some research that does state that something or another can either kill or render harmless some invader without harming the host (can’t remember what I was reading when I read that) so don’t discount it out of hand… you know, because you don’t understand how it can happen.

        After all, there are some things that can kill cancer cells without harming normal cells. So why can’t that be something that can happen with microbes… especially microbial micro films where the bio film is broken up?

      2. Fumbles, regarding “There’s no evidence that this stuff discriminates between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ microbes ….. how could it possibly do that?”

        If I recall correctly, Dr G has a video on using green tea as a mouthwash because it kills the bad bacteria but not the good.

        Could this be an example you’re looking for?

      3. Mr Fumbles, that article was pretty persuasive and actually very helpful, thanks for the link!

        “how could it possibly do that?”

        Well plants have been shown to act much more intelligently with our bodies than drugs in a number of ways. Such as those that serve as blood thinners but do not exceed safety in that they don’t cause excessive bleeding. But also, even in regards to discriminating against good and bad bacteria. In Dr. Greger’s video on oral health and green tea and amla, didn’t he explain the unique mechanisms in which green tea did in fact kill bad bacteria and why it didn’t harm good bacteria and how amla prevented the growth of cavity causing bacteria? It was a very fascinating and complex process that did discriminate between good and bad bacteria.

        Plus, doesn’t basic experience serve as evidence in some significant regard? If plants and our bodies were that stupid, considering how many plant compounds are shown to kill bad bacteria among their other killer qualities, people who ate a lot of garlic, herbs and spices for one thing, would be having issues with their microbiota and that just simply isn’t the case but rather on the contrary in people eating these kinds of healthy diets. Also, couldn’t you ask the same question in regards to how plants are able to discriminate between cancerous and healthy cells? And indeed, they are extraordinary at discriminating between them.

        Obviously my concern is concentrated doses, though and maybe that’s what you were referring to.

        The questions are still up in the air for me, but it makes more sense to stick to what we know is beneficial and safe such as eating herbs in our food.

        It’s so frustrating, though, that we don’t have the answers to what are in my opinion, simple questions, in 2020. With all the focus being on gained profits instead of gained knowledge, it’s very difficult to learn what we could and should be learning. Obviously we still learn a lot, but imagine what we could accomplish if the motives were pure or relatively so.

        I have to comment on this part of the article…

        “These questions are usually answered through a series of investigations, starting with preclinical (test-tube) studies, and moving into to animal trials, and then to human clinical trials”

        Time to cut out the middle animal, as maybe Dr. Greger might put it.

        1. My understanding was that it killed influenza viruses but there was no mention that other throat viruses/b n acteria were unharmed as a consequence of gargling.

          One possible mechanism he identified was that green tea boosts killer T cell production.
          https://nutritionfacts.org/video/benefits-of-green-tea-for-boosting-antiviral-immune-function/

          What’s the evidence that oregano oil can do this if taken orally?

          Where’s the evidence that oral ingestion is beneficial? What is the mechanism? What’s the dosage for the matter?

          1. What’s the evidence that oregano oil can do this if taken orally?

            Where’s the evidence that oral ingestion is beneficial? What is the mechanism? What’s the dosage for the matter?
            ——————————————————————————————————————————————————–
            Where’s the evidence that it is not beneficial?

            For that matter, who in the scientific community cares enough to do an unprofitable study on it? Are you saying we shouldn’t even be using it as a seasoning because there is no *evidence* it tastes good?

            I think we can safely go on the evidence it isn’t killing diners world-wide, so perhaps we can take that as *evidence* that consuming oregano does no harm.

            And if after centuries of use we can’t establish harm… and people continue to use it… well, perhaps our bodies recognize a benefit in our gut that is is sayin’ “Take Me!”

            (aside: Tom, this is a pretty small practice to go to war over… gettin’ bored from sheltering in place are we?… hmmmmm?)

            1. All I am saying is that just because people selling the stuff say it works and it’s safe doesn’t mean that it is;

              Yes it kills viruses etc in a test tube. There’s no evidence though that it only kills the bad ones in a test tube though is there?

              You can get the same effect with bleach and hydrogen peroxide too but there’s no way I am drinking those things either whether neat or diluted.

              Also the two phrases ‘essential oils’ and ‘liver toxicity’ are too often associated for me to want to do this sort of thing in the absence of long term safety data. Also, I’ve never thought that basing health practices on the appeal to antiquity fallacy was wise…………… it does sell a lot of crap though. I am happy to stick to the spices themselves.

              PS

              ‘(aside: Tom, this is a pretty small practice to go to war over… gettin’ bored from sheltering in place are we?… hmmmmm?)’

              I thought it was just an exchange of ideas but did it occur to you that this comment might also relate to you too?

              1. You can get the same effect with bleach and hydrogen peroxide too but there’s no way I am drinking those things either whether neat or diluted.
                ————————————————————————————————————-
                Tom, no offense but your arguments are often laughable… well chuckle-able at least… because I often chuckle when I read some of your wild comparisons to paint the point you are arguing against as untenable.

                Like recently comparing something as being the same as Russian Roulette and this one equating taking oregano to drinking bleach or hydrogen peroxide.

                If there are many documented cases of this being unhealthy, where’s the science? And I don’t mean an isolated case or two which could happen if someone has an underlying condition that may have presented whether eating or taking a little oregano or not.

                My guess is there are possibly 99% for (based on the popularity of the spice world wide) and some of the rest with no opinion… leaving a minuscule number of people against the use of oregano.

                Even the science in your link has identified beneficial compounds in your link:

                Oregano (Origanum vulgare) leaves contain a wide variety of chemical compounds, including leanolic acids, ursolic acids, and phenolic glycosides. Phenolic compounds make up to 71% of the oil. Carvacrol, thymol, cymene, and terpinine and are found in oregano leaves and do appear to have biological effects. It’s these chemicals that are proposed to be the parts with beneficial effects.

                That doesn’t sound like bleach to me. ‘-)

                I get it… your bliss is to challenge everything. I’m o.k. with that if done in a scientific way rather than planting images of a smoking gun or a throat grabbing cartoon with a jug of bleach with xxxx across the label.

  15. It hasn’t helped that people have to go to 6 or 7 stores looking for toilet paper.

    People are staying away from each other though.

    The people I know are all just going out for supplies or to work but the shelves being empty has caused the contact.

    I have been social-isolating since the end of December alone in the house and at work, but grocery stores is where there are lines.

    1. It’s so ridiculous, there is NO SHORTAGE of food or whatever else we need, the only thing causing it is stupid people panic-shopping!!!!!!

    2. but grocery stores is where there are lines.
      ———————————————————–
      I think I read where WalMart is setting aside certain hours where only people who are elderly can shop. That should help exclude passing on the virus from younger people who have Covid-19 but exhibit no symptoms.

  16. I love meat especially pork ribs & ham & fatty bacon, eat meat or fish 3-4 times a week. Love vegtables and have them every day. I usually eat too much and am 10 lbs over weight .Hoping to live a long time, will be 89 in august

    Cy

      1. You forgot to mention that the longest surviving group amongst the seven dyt Adventists was the Pesco Vegitrarians, so fish eaters lived the longest

        1. Mark Littlewood, way to exaggerate a finding and ignore the full picture… So Mr. Fumblefingers actually talked about this quite a while back and gave the full or fuller details. So I can only go on memory here, but that was actually only true for the males and not the females (maybe the other way around, but I thinkkkk I got that right) and also this was just an observational thing. It wasn’t controlled for other factors e.g. was the non-fish-eating group supplementing with B12 or perhaps void in some other nutrient in which case a simple lack of B12 deficiency, for example, alone could have been the reason or it could have even been a fluke. Point is, that does not serve as evidence that eating fish along with an otherwise vegetarian diet increases lifespan. We do have lots of sound evidence available to us on the harm consuming fish causes, on the other hand, such as very high levels of heavy metals to name just one.

          1. S, I posted a link of the Adventist studies, above in discussion with Fumbles. Mark Littlewood is mistaken I believe. There was a large benefit for women only in the pescatarian group regarding heart disease vs the vegan group.
            With males, by far the best results were seen with the vegan group, no contest. The info is found in Table 4 of the link.
            I don’t recall a category of overall longevity, but perhaps that is found in another article.

            1. ok, here is the link, and first column in Table 4 is all cause mortality. For men, vegan vs pesco is almost no difference. 0.73 vs 0.72
              In women, there is substantial benefit for pescotarians in ischemic heart disease and cardiovascular disease, though generally speaking diet has less of an impact on women than men. I am hoping Dr Greger talks about that topic one day.

  17. I am curious if there is a correlational between the countries that eat the most cured meat and cheese with the worst cases (spanning all ages) of COVID-19.

    1. I am curious if there is a correlational between the countries that eat the most cured meat and cheese with the worst cases (spanning all ages) of COVID-19.
      ——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
      Similarly, I am curious if big data can tease out which eating habits fare the best against Covid-19.

      This will likely be the most tracked disease ever.

      DR Greger should have lots of new studies to quote in the coming years. ‘-)

  18. I tried to link to the info below but the link didn’t go directly to the article so I am posting the article as quoted by Hemp Inc. in their newsletter. I found it interesting.
    ____________________________________________________________________
    Published March 10, 2020 on http://www.medium.com

    Fresh air, sunlight, and improvised face masks seemed to work a century ago; and they might help us now.

    by Richard Hobday

    When new, virulent diseases emerge, such as SARS and Covid-19, the race begins to find new vaccines and treatments for those affected. As the current crisis unfolds, governments are enforcing quarantine and isolation, and public gatherings are being discouraged. Health officials took the same approach 100 years ago, when influenza was spreading around the world. The results were mixed. But records from the 1918 pandemic suggest one technique for dealing with influenza — little-known today — was effective. Some hard-won experience from the greatest pandemic in recorded history could help us in the weeks and months ahead.

    Put simply, medics found that severely ill flu patients nursed outdoors recovered better than those treated indoors. A combination of fresh air and sunlight seems to have prevented deaths among patients; and infections among medical staff.[1] There is scientific support for this. Research shows that outdoor air is a natural disinfectant. Fresh air can kill the flu virus and other harmful germs. Equally, sunlight is germicidal and there is now evidence it can kill the flu virus.

    `Open-Air’ Treatment in 1918

    During the great pandemic, two of the worst places to be were military barracks and troop-ships. Overcrowding and bad ventilation put soldiers and sailors at high risk of catching influenza and the other infections that often followed it.[2,3] As with the current Covid-19 outbreak, most of the victims of so-called `Spanish flu’ did not die from influenza: they died of pneumonia and other complications.

    When the influenza pandemic reached the East coast of the United States in 1918, the city of Boston was particularly badly hit. So the State Guard set up an emergency hospital. They took in the worst cases among sailors on ships in Boston harbor. The hospital’s medical officer had noticed the most seriously ill sailors had been in badly-ventilated spaces. So he gave them as much fresh air as possible by putting them in tents. And in good weather, they were taken out of their tents and put in the sun. At this time, it was common practice to put sick soldiers outdoors. Open-air therapy, as it was known, was widely used on casualties from the Western Front. And it became the treatment of choice for another common and often deadly respiratory infection of the time; tuberculosis. Patients were put outside in their beds to breathe fresh outdoor air. Or they were nursed in cross-ventilated wards with the windows open day and night. The open-air regimen remained popular until antibiotics replaced it in the 1950s.

    Doctors who had first-hand experience of open-air therapy at the hospital in Boston were convinced the regimen was effective. It was adopted elsewhere. If one report is correct, it reduced deaths among hospital patients from 40 percent to about 13 percent.[4] According to the Surgeon General of the Massachusetts State Guard:

    `The efficacy of open air treatment has been absolutely proven, and one has only to try it to discover its value.’

    Fresh Air is a Disinfectant

    Patients treated outdoors were less likely to be exposed to the infectious germs that are often present in conventional hospital wards. They were breathing clean air in what must have been a largely sterile environment. We know this because, in the 1960s, Ministry of Defence scientists proved that fresh air is a natural disinfectant.[5] Something in it, which they called the Open Air Factor, is far more harmful to airborne bacteria — and the influenza virus — than indoor air. They couldn’t identify exactly what the Open Air Factor is. But they found it was effective both at night and during the daytime.

    Their research also revealed that the Open Air Factor’s disinfecting powers can be preserved in enclosures — if ventilation rates are kept high enough. Significantly, the rates they identified are the same ones that cross-ventilated hospital wards, with high ceilings and big windows, were designed for.[6] But by the time the scientists made their discoveries, antibiotic therapy had replaced open-air treatment. Since then the germicidal effects of fresh air have not featured in infection control, or hospital design. Yet harmful bacteria have become increasingly resistant to antibiotics.

    Sunlight and Influenza Infection

    Putting infected patients out in the sun may have helped because it inactivates the influenza virus.[7] It also kills bacteria that cause lung and other infections in hospitals.[8] During the First World War, military surgeons routinely used sunlight to heal infected wounds.[9] They knew it was a disinfectant. What they didn’t know is that one advantage of placing patients outside in the sun is they can synthesise vitamin D in their skin if sunlight is strong enough. This was not discovered until the 1920s. Low vitamin D levels are now linked to respiratory infections and may increase susceptibility to influenza.[10] Also, our body’s biological rhythms appear to influence how we resist infections.[11] New research suggests they can alter our inflammatory response to the flu virus.[12] As with vitamin D, at the time of the 1918 pandemic, the important part played by sunlight in synchronizing these rhythms was not known.

    Face Masks Coronavirus and Flu

    Surgical masks are currently in short supply in China and elsewhere. They were worn 100 years ago, during the great pandemic, to try and stop the influenza virus spreading. While surgical masks may offer some protection from infection they do not seal around the face. So they don’t filter out small airborne particles. In 1918, anyone at the emergency hospital in Boston who had contact with patients had to wear an improvised face mask. This comprised five layers of gauze fitted to a wire frame which covered the nose and mouth. The frame was shaped to fit the face of the wearer and prevent the gauze filter touching the mouth and nostrils. The masks were replaced every two hours; properly sterilized and with fresh gauze put on. They were a forerunner of the N95 respirators in use in hospitals today to protect medical staff against airborne infection.

    Temporary Hospitals

    Staff at the hospital kept up high standards of personal and environmental hygiene. No doubt this played a big part in the relatively low rates of infection and deaths reported there. The speed with which their hospital and other temporary open-air facilities were erected to cope with the surge in pneumonia patients was another factor. Today, many countries are not prepared for a severe influenza pandemic.[13] Their health services will be overwhelmed if there is one. Vaccines and antiviral drugs might help. Antibiotics may be effective for pneumonia and other complications. But much of the world’s population will not have access to them. If another 1918 comes, or the Covid-19 crisis gets worse, history suggests it might be prudent to have tents and pre-fabricated wards ready to deal with large numbers of seriously ill cases. Plenty of fresh air and a little sunlight might help too.

    Dr. Richard Hobday is an independent researcher working in the fields of infection control, public health and building design. He is the author of `The Healing Sun’.

  19. O.K., Since I’m heavily invested in Industrial HEMP stock I’ve been waiting for evidence that somehow hemp could help fight Covid-19. The study below doesn’t actually promise this, but it does show how in combination with antibiotics it can make the antibiotics act stronger against bacteria.

    I don’t know if they included virus in study but maybe it helps there too. To be clear, they say the cannabidiol increases the efficacy of the antibiotic, and their conclusion is that less antibiotic can be considered in a dose.

    This helper compound appears as something worth following up on with Covid-19 I would think.

    1. I’m taking a leap of faith here, but since the CDB oil acts as a helper compound I’m toying with the idea of including taking it with the supplements I take… in hopes it will increase the efficacy of those. I’ll start out by taking lower doses of my supplements to see if there is any untoward effect.

      I know the CBD oil is o.k. to take as I have taken it on occasion for minor pain. But this will be the first time I will have taken it regularly. (In the past it has made me sleepy.)

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