The Orthorexia Nervosa Test

The Orthorexia Nervosa Test
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See how you score on the orthorexia “diagnostic” test.

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

“Orthorexia…is defined as an unhealthy obsession with eating healthy food.” Want to know if you’re orthorexic? “The ORTO-15 is the most widely accepted assessment tool used to screen for orthorexic tendencies.” A score of 40 or lower was considered the best threshold for an orthorexia diagnosis. There are 15 questions, each scored from 1 to 4, so you can end up with a score of 15 to 60, with a score under 40 denoting orthorexia. So getting 1s and 2s and even an occasional 3 on your answers would mean you may have it, so lower scores are worse. Okay, let’s check it out. The first question: “When eating, do you pay attention to the calories of the food?” Always, Often, Sometimes, or Never. According to the test, the healthiest answer is Often, with the orthorexic answers being Always—or Never. I can see how always obsessively worrying about calories could hint at a problem, but if you’re eating healthy enough, a diet centered around whole plant foods, you don’t need to worry about calorie counts or portion control. And the healthiest foods—fruits and vegetables—don’t even have a nutrition label. But, apparently, if you’re never Googling the calories of every apple you eat, you may have a problem.

“When you go [to the grocery store] do you feel confused?” Supposedly, the healthiest answer is Always. You should always be confused, and if you’re not at least often confused, we may end up having to drug you.

Question 3: “In the last 3 months, did the thought of food worry you?” The supposed healthiest answer? Never. The thought of what you’re putting into your body didn’t worry you once. According to the test, it would be healthier if your eating choices were “conditioned” worries about your health, and of course taste should always be “more important than the quality” of your food. I mean, if you think the quality of food is even “sometimes” more important, you may have a mental illness. And if you’re often “willing to spend more money to have healthier food?” Crazy! Are you so delusional that “you think that consuming healthy food might improve your appearance?” My favorite, though, has to be question 14. Do you think that supermarkets also sell “unhealthy food?” You’ve got to be kidding. And then, they like penalize people who live alone.  

If you scored under 40, you are not alone. Using this test, about 50 percent of registered dietitians in the United States are supposedly suffering from a mental illness. “The…prevalence of [orthorexia nervosa] presents as being impossibly high.” I mean, “anorexia and bulimia…are estimated to be no higher than about 2 percent.” And so, it’s kind of “counterintuitive to believe that” there’s some eating disorder out there that has rates as high as nearly 90 percent. No wonder the DSM, the psychiatry profession’s official diagnostic manual, does not include orthorexia “as a psychiatric diagnosis”—and they love turning things into mental illnesses. The latest edition can turn kindergarten temper tantrums into a disorder, too much coffee… or even bad PMS into a mental illness, but they’re still not going to go there with orthorexia. For example: “Researchers had a tendency to pick and choose which questions of the ORTO-15 they used and [come up with] their own cut off scores for diagnosis,” resulting in “[a]n alarmingly erratic use of the ORTO-15 tool [that was] designed to measure [orthorexia].” The bottom line is that the ORTO-15 test “is likely unable to distinguish between healthy eating and pathologically healtful eating,” whatever that is.

Now, more recently, new criteria have been introduced. Given “the impossibly high prevalence rates,” new emphasis is placed on health problems because of diet, such as malnutrition, or medical complications that would, by definition, make it an unhealthy diet. Like this tragic case in which someone had tried to live off a few spoonfuls of rice and vegetables, and ended up bedridden. If that is what you want to call orthorexia, fine, but one wonders if it might have been clouded by some actual psychiatric diagnosis, like OCD, obsessive-compulsive disorder.

If you add in those adverse health criteria, then the prevalence drops to “less than one half of 1%,” which seems a little more reasonable. Interestingly, those eating “vegan” diets had the least pathological scores in the sample—though this may reflect them just being less serious about healthy eating, reaching for the vegan doughnut rather than the lentil soup.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: ulleo via pixnio. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

“Orthorexia…is defined as an unhealthy obsession with eating healthy food.” Want to know if you’re orthorexic? “The ORTO-15 is the most widely accepted assessment tool used to screen for orthorexic tendencies.” A score of 40 or lower was considered the best threshold for an orthorexia diagnosis. There are 15 questions, each scored from 1 to 4, so you can end up with a score of 15 to 60, with a score under 40 denoting orthorexia. So getting 1s and 2s and even an occasional 3 on your answers would mean you may have it, so lower scores are worse. Okay, let’s check it out. The first question: “When eating, do you pay attention to the calories of the food?” Always, Often, Sometimes, or Never. According to the test, the healthiest answer is Often, with the orthorexic answers being Always—or Never. I can see how always obsessively worrying about calories could hint at a problem, but if you’re eating healthy enough, a diet centered around whole plant foods, you don’t need to worry about calorie counts or portion control. And the healthiest foods—fruits and vegetables—don’t even have a nutrition label. But, apparently, if you’re never Googling the calories of every apple you eat, you may have a problem.

“When you go [to the grocery store] do you feel confused?” Supposedly, the healthiest answer is Always. You should always be confused, and if you’re not at least often confused, we may end up having to drug you.

Question 3: “In the last 3 months, did the thought of food worry you?” The supposed healthiest answer? Never. The thought of what you’re putting into your body didn’t worry you once. According to the test, it would be healthier if your eating choices were “conditioned” worries about your health, and of course taste should always be “more important than the quality” of your food. I mean, if you think the quality of food is even “sometimes” more important, you may have a mental illness. And if you’re often “willing to spend more money to have healthier food?” Crazy! Are you so delusional that “you think that consuming healthy food might improve your appearance?” My favorite, though, has to be question 14. Do you think that supermarkets also sell “unhealthy food?” You’ve got to be kidding. And then, they like penalize people who live alone.  

If you scored under 40, you are not alone. Using this test, about 50 percent of registered dietitians in the United States are supposedly suffering from a mental illness. “The…prevalence of [orthorexia nervosa] presents as being impossibly high.” I mean, “anorexia and bulimia…are estimated to be no higher than about 2 percent.” And so, it’s kind of “counterintuitive to believe that” there’s some eating disorder out there that has rates as high as nearly 90 percent. No wonder the DSM, the psychiatry profession’s official diagnostic manual, does not include orthorexia “as a psychiatric diagnosis”—and they love turning things into mental illnesses. The latest edition can turn kindergarten temper tantrums into a disorder, too much coffee… or even bad PMS into a mental illness, but they’re still not going to go there with orthorexia. For example: “Researchers had a tendency to pick and choose which questions of the ORTO-15 they used and [come up with] their own cut off scores for diagnosis,” resulting in “[a]n alarmingly erratic use of the ORTO-15 tool [that was] designed to measure [orthorexia].” The bottom line is that the ORTO-15 test “is likely unable to distinguish between healthy eating and pathologically healtful eating,” whatever that is.

Now, more recently, new criteria have been introduced. Given “the impossibly high prevalence rates,” new emphasis is placed on health problems because of diet, such as malnutrition, or medical complications that would, by definition, make it an unhealthy diet. Like this tragic case in which someone had tried to live off a few spoonfuls of rice and vegetables, and ended up bedridden. If that is what you want to call orthorexia, fine, but one wonders if it might have been clouded by some actual psychiatric diagnosis, like OCD, obsessive-compulsive disorder.

If you add in those adverse health criteria, then the prevalence drops to “less than one half of 1%,” which seems a little more reasonable. Interestingly, those eating “vegan” diets had the least pathological scores in the sample—though this may reflect them just being less serious about healthy eating, reaching for the vegan doughnut rather than the lentil soup.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: ulleo via pixnio. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Doctor's Note

Was that crazy or what?! This is the last in a three-video series. In case you missed the first two, they are Is Orthorexia a Real Eating Disorder? and Orthorexia Nervosa Symptoms.

While, as I think you’ll clearly see after watching the entire three-part series, orthorexia cannot be considered a legitimate eating disorder, there are very real and very serious eating disorders (such as anorexia and bulimia) that should not be taken lightly. If you or a loved one suffers from one of these diagnoses, please seek immediate help from a professional.

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

142 responses to “The Orthorexia Nervosa Test

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  1. I agree that the criteria for diagnosing orthorexia are ridiculous, but please educate yourself on PMDD. It is a serious issue which can cause tremendous suffering. The best explanation currently available is that the brains of women with PMDD may be hypersensitive to (normal) hormonal fluctuations during the cycle. The research is still in its infancy, but you can check out this article from 2017: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/sex-hormone-sensitive-gene-complex-linked-premenstrual-mood-disorder

          1. “They love turning things into mental illnesses. The latest edition can turn kindergarten temper tantrums into a disorder, too much coffee… or even bad PMS into a mental illness… [article shown: Is PMDD really a disorder?]”
            My point is that PMDD *is* a disorder and it is not the same as normal PMS, nor is it something to make fun of as a doctor. The suicide rate among sufferers is too high for that. Not to mention the number of patients who are begging their gynecologists to surgically remove their uterus and ovaries just to make it stop.

            1. I don’t think he made fun of it, personally. Maybe Dr. Greger WILL make a video on PMDD in the future, it would make sense because certain whole plant foods help with hormonal function and antioxidants from whole plant foods are shown to improve brain chemistry.

    1. I call the market domination of unhealthy food ‘the invasion of Little Debbie”. . We are what we eat yet most people eat completely nutrition-lacking artificial ‘food’ and then try to blame genetics when they eat themselves into poor health. Then they walk into a doctors office expecting a once a day small pill to cure them so they can continue……..as if THEY are the ones with the actual mental disorder.

    2. They are indeed, as we all know. Dr. Lustig even calls our epidemic “processed food disease”. All the best doctors in nutrition agree. Now where could you go find some highly processed food?

  2. I clock in at 31, so I definitely need some drugs. Should I see my physician, a dietitian, or should I just go straight to Pfizer?

    1. at the rate we are going, Pfizer and/or their ilk will own all the doctors, insurance companies, dispensaries, and medical facilities before long.

  3. Barb et al:

    DOES
    100% grass fed cooked on low heat beef/lamb
    LOWER CHOLESTEROL?

    Okay, this is definitely anecdotal, however it IS my experience:

    At one time I was eating 2 – 2 1/2 lbs of standard roast beef each day and my Total Cholesterol was 240. Then I switched to eating a mixture of oats, olive oil and ground turkey breast snd my TC dropped to 170. Then I switched to 100% grass fed beef and my TC dropped further to 140!

    My own advice to those vegetarians who have not been able to get their LDL low enough:

    First make sure you have cut out all forms of sugar: Honey, Maple Syrup, Molasses, Malt, fruit juices, etc.

    Then try eating about two to four oz of 100% grass fed cooked on low heat beef/lamb each day for one month. Have yourself tested before resuming your current diet. (Do NOT eat any other types of animal food.)

    Notes:

    – 100% grass fed beef/lamb fat is different from standard beef/lamb fat: It is 3x higher in Conjugated Linoleic Acid, higher in Omega 3, etc. The fat from 100% grass fed cows looks different, tastes different and cooks different than standard beef fat.

    – Those studies that show higher cancer rates in areas of the world that consume higher amounts of beef are all INVALID because none of them take into account cooking methods. Remember: the WHO did NOT say beef causes cancer. The WHO DID say beef cooked on HIGH HEAT causes cancer.

    – There are no studies that show whether 100% grass fed beef raises or lowers cholesterol.

    – Make sure the 100% grass fed beef/lamb you eat is not too low in fat. Remember CLA is a fatty acid.

    1. The best way to lower LDL cholesterol is to eat no meat or animal products and follow a vegan, plant based diet. I’m over 50 and my LDL cholesterol is 70.

      1. Bell:

        I am addressing those vegetarians who have not been able to get their LDL down to the level here advocated.

        There is no question that eating standard beef with its high sat fat will raise cholesterol, but the fact is that there have NOT been studies to show if 100% grass fed cooked on low heat beef/lsmb is beneficial. My own experience is my cholesterol dropped when I started eating 100% grass fed beef.

    2. Not interested Sydney! Back away from the animal products and check out Dr Greger’s videos on the topics of animal proteins and cancer, how not to die of cancer, best vegetable against cancer, etc. We have given you links repeatedly on the same question.

      1. Barb:

        I read some about Methionine which is higher in some plant foods than in animal foods so I wouldn’t be to fast to paint animal foods with such a wide brush.

        1. Sydney,
          You must be talking about Brazil nuts (methionine 1124mg/100g) vs. lean beef/lamb (981mg/100g) vs fish (835mg/100g) vs. roasted soybeans (534mg/100g). But who gobbles down 100g of Brazil nuts? That’s a lot of calories, and the amount of selenium would be through the roof, which could be deadly. The fact that there is one, or if you count soybeans, two outliers among hundreds of different plant foods typically eaten cannot be used to justify your unsupported assertions about grass fed meat eating. Some plants are toxic. Does that mean the health benefits of plant eating are on par with meat eating? That’s illogical.

      2. Health Support Volunteer Ben,

        You were wondering about why we bother writing “SOS free” if we are eating wfpb so just to clarify, It is because some of the plant based docs espouse slightly different allowances on their programs. One will allow salt on the table, or a tsp of sugar, another will allow olive oil, etc. To avoid repetitive comments in response it is simpler to just say salt, oil, sugar free at the outset.

        Our processed foods are soy milk, and organic veggie broth. No condiments (not even vinegar or mustard), pickles, olives, relish, and no pasta or noodles, nothing, though there are people eating wfpb that enjoy them. We do not eat out – ever! If I found something in a restaurant I could eat, I probably wouldn’t want to pay the price they wanted for it!

        1. Barb:

          I believe I recall that you said that you do not eat nuts because they are so high in fat. But Dr. Greger said a few months ago that eating nuts can reverse arterial plaque.

          If nuts can reverse arterial plaque, then maybe they can have some effect on cholesterol.

    3. I had cancer in 2001. At that time and in the years following my surgery and radiation, I had high cholesterol and abnormal HDL and LDL. My HDL and LDL normalized after eliminating all meat and animal products. The latest LDL that I could find in my records was 59. The latest total cholesterol I could find was 157. When I was eating meat and other animal products, it was almost 200. My personal experience matches Diane and Rebecca, albeit for a different type of cancer. Sydney, it would be better if you did not exhort people to eat in an unhealthy fashion. Lives depend on this!

      1. Liisa,

        Thanks for sharing.

        You are a powerful witness and your passion is palpable even when you only write a few sentences.

        There is a purity of focus about you.

        Lives depend on it is your motivation and it shows.

        Blessed that you share about your cancer and cholesterol.

    4. Sydney – you posted the above on yesterday’s “Cholesterol” discussion as well. What’s your point on over-posting the same opinion?
      This site allows everyone to have their opinion. But please don’t abuse it – badgering and nagging your point is rude and disrespectful.

    5. OMG Sydney, wrong video to post your evidenceless statements as facts. Mr fumblefingers gave an appropriate response to this under the last video. I know I’m gonna sound like a bitch but I’m pretty sure no one wants to be followed on a website video to video based on other discussions. Sorry but this kind of aggressive harmful misinformation presented as facts brings out the bitch in me I guess. Now this topic is gonna become something that was already discussed in the last video because you want to spread your idealism… smh.

      1. Laughing.

        I need a coexist bumper sticker.

        Sydney saw people struggling with cholesterol and didn’t see the reality of how many people reach normal levels on WFPB and was trying to help us.

        Benefit of the doubt.

        I look around and don’t see anyone confused by it and that makes me happy.

        I am like Liisa and care deeply that lives depend upon it and also care deeply about the animals.

        There is a man who was vegan who has left it and who wants to experience killing an animal with his own hands and I went to his site today and he looked so miserable. No joy in his soul. Just misery.

        It was the saddest thing I have seen in a while and know that if he does it his mental health may get worse.

        1. Deb, you’re so kind hearted!

          As for the blood luster you mention, I don’t even have words right now and the one’s I do, I’m trying not to use in the spirit of your kindheartedness, but what’s the “man’s” name you’re referring to? Not even going to begin, but any psycho who wants to murder for the sake of murder doesn’t deserve anything but misery.

    6. Sydney, Does your cool cooked grass-fed meat have any carnitine or choline in it? If so, you might want to watch the video at the link below.

      Excerpts:

      ” … what these researchers found was that within 24 hours of carnitine consumption—eating a sirloin steak, taking a carnitine supplement—certain gut bacteria metabolize the carnitine to a toxic substance called trimethylamine, which then gets oxidized in our liver to TMAO (trimethylamine-n-oxide), which then circulates throughout our bloodstream. What’s so bad about this TMAO stuff? Well, it may increase the risk of buildup of cholesterol in the inflammatory cells in the atherosclerotic plaques in our arteries, increasing our risk of heart attack, stroke, death—and, if that isn’t enough, cardiac surgery, as well. … Where is carnitine found? … carnitine is concentrated in red meat.”

      “Given the similarity in structure between carnitine and choline, they figured that the same kind of transformation would occur into TMAO. And, that’s exactly what they found. Where is choline found? … Eggs, milk, liver, red meat, poultry, shell fish, and fish,…[all] believed to be major dietary sources of choline, and, hence TMAO production.”

      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/carnitine-choline-cancer-and-cholesterol-the-tmao-connection/

    7. Sydney,

      “It takes a lot of grassland to raise a grassfed steer. Western rangelands are vast, but not nearly vast enough to sustain America’s 100 million head of cattle. There is no way that grassfed beef can begin to feed the current meat appetites of people in the United States, much less play a role in addressing world hunger.

      Grassfed meat production might be viable in a country like New Zealand with its geographic isolation, unique climate and topography, and exceedingly small human population. But in a world of 7 billion people, I am afraid that grassfed beef is a food that only the wealthy elites will be able to consume in any significant quantities.

      What would happen if we sought to raise great quantities of grassfed beef?

      It’s been tried, in Brazil, and the result has been an environmental nightmare of epic proportions. In 2009, Greenpeace released a report titled “Slaughtering the Amazon,” which presented detailed satellite photos showing that Amazon cattle are now the biggest single cause of global deforestation, which is in turn responsible for 20% of the world’s greenhouse gases….”

      https://foodrevolution.org/blog/the-truth-about-grassfed-beef/

      1. Thanks for this important information, Dr. J. People don’t realize that “free range” is actually incredibly unsustainable and harmful to the environment and wildlife.

    8. I wonder if there is a term for an unhealthy obsession with eating 100% grass fed beef and lamb?

      Once again you are posting factually incorrect statements Sydney. The WHO did NOT say that beef cooked on high heat causes cancer It said that red meat is probably carcinogenic It also said that ‘there were not enough data for the IARC Working Group to reach a conclusion about whether the way meatis cooked affects the risk of cancer.’
      https://www.iarc.fr/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Monographs-QA_Vol114.pdf

    9. There are genetic mutations in the genes in the ADME (Absorption, distribution, metabolism and excretion) routes of cholesterol that can make some people’s lipid profiles look unhealthy even if eating a great WFPB diet. Familial hypercholesteremia is one, lipoprotein (a) defect another. So, although you can maximize the hand your are dealt genetically through diet and lifestyle, sometimes the cards you are dealt are crap, and you should not beat yourself up because your diet is not helping as much as you think it might.

  4. Two years of eating grass fed beef, carefully cooked, netted me a large triple negative breast cancer. I realize that isn’t a scientific study, but I’ve only known four other women who have had that type of aggressive cancer. All were younger than me, and all died within about 18 months of diagnosis. I feel like my whole food plant only diet has been a big part of what has kept me healthy for the last nine years since my diagnosis.

    1. Got you on that one! June 11th marks 20 years since the removal of a stage 3 triple negative breast cancer tumor. I went strict macrobiotic afterwards (there was no nutrition facts at the time). Other than perhaps too much salt and a healthy dose of superstition, I ate only whole food plant based emphasizing whole grains, greens, root veg, and beans. No oils, nuts, meat, or processed foods of any kind. Yes, limited fruit but overall can’t complain. I’ve made a full recovery where others have not.

      1. Dianne J and Rebecca Cody – Wow. Good for you!
        This sort-of-recent video post is of William Li, M.D. whose “Eat to Starve Cancer” video has over 11 million views is well known. This one was posted December 2018. It builds on his previous video and is a little more comprehensive. Thought I’d share with you and anyone else that’s interested.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlJEGJvI1UA
        It’s about an hour but well worth watching.

        1. I have been following Dr. Li for awhile and while he advocates eating fresh vegetables he also promotes the Mediterranean diet and eating olive oil as well as fish and oysters.

    2. Rebecca Cody:

      I get the impression that your diet changed quite significantly after your cancer diagnosis. If so, how can you be sure that it was the beef that caused the cancer and not some of the other foods that you were eating before your diagnosis?

      1. Oh I don’t know Sydney, there’s just a plethora of evidence one could use to a draw a link, but hey… it’s just the best available collective evidence. What’s that compared to a single anecdote or opinion.

  5. I’ve definitely had to deal with caffeine w/ sugar addiction in the past (leaving my house at 2am to get an energy drink I didn’t want but felt compelled to get and other instances) do I can kinda see where they are going with the coffee consumption as a mental health out in servere cases.

    1. Ryan, do you have other compulsions? Might have even been something else in the energy drink that caused you to feel so addicted to it, actually.

    2. Ryan,

      I could point to Dr Barnard’s The Cheese Trap and agree that some foods are addictive.

      I have had sugar addiction, soda addiction, chocolate addiction, cheese addiction, for sure and all of those are gone now and once I went off artificial flavorings and refined flours and empty calories and dairy products food issues disappeared.

      I still eat some processed food like Mary’s Gone Crackers, but I know that I am not addicted because there is a box in the cabinet and I still haven’t opened it and I have bars of dark chocolate and eat them one square at a time.

      Milk chocolate never lasted very long.

      It really was the food. Not me.

  6. It doesn’t surprise me that orthorexia has been considered a ‘disease.’ I was just at a two-day education conference with other Nutritionists, most of whom seem to agree with the American Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that obesity itself is a ‘disease’ rather than a CONDITION that CAUSES diseases. To me, this is an effort to ‘medicalize’ another condition (in the scientific literature this is called “disease mongering’) in order to bill for it, as well as develop medications and market surgical procedures. I would love for Dr. G to address this. I can’t think of another ‘disease’ that could be cured by plant-based eating and taking up jogging (come to think of it, many diseases WOULD be!) The AAND presented info detailing the molecular biology and hormonal controls on weight, but avoided any discussion of how food choices and animal food-based diets contribute to obesity. Guess I shouldn’t be surprised – they have always followed the lead of other scientific organizations rather than stating a different perspective. And they wonder why so many of us don’t want to become members!

    1. Rick,

      I understand that position, but I can use Diabetes as an example.

      I watched a documentary and when very heavy people went a version of WFPB, they got off their meds without losing weight at all.

      I watched that and almost think that obesity is a symptom of a diseased diet and the diet itself is a disease.

      1. Dr Lisle said that people who get obese generally only eat a 100 more calories per day than other people or something like that and it is generally the food.

        Take them off the food and the disease disappears so is it that the people have a disease or is the food a disease?

        1. People who dieted all their lives and couldn’t lose weight and who would accept that they have a devastating disease called obesity switch food and drop to half their size without trying.

          Again is it them who has a disease or is the food a disease?

          1. Did the disease disappear?

            What happened to the food cravings and compulsions etc?

            Were the people’s brains were diseased and appetites diseased or was it the food?

            1. If they have a disease, that means that the people have something wrong with them which caused obesity.

              Is it that? Or is it the food which had something wrong with it?

              1. That is an important distinction.

                Do you medicate the people or do surgery on them? Psychoanalysis? Delve into their family history? Most of my friends spent worthless decades going to counselors trying to get to the root cause of their moral and emotional behavior which led them to overeat.

                Or is it the food is addictive because it was designed to be that way?

                1. Decades.

                  Waste of time.

                  Waste of money.

                  Waste of self-esteem.

                  Decades.

                  Was I insulating myself to feel safer so that people wouldn’t abuse me?

                  Or is junk food poison?

                  Dr Lisle said a sentence, “Lucky nobody in China was abused. Lucky, none of them went through trauma.”

                  So it is us who was diseased.

                  No will power.

                  Morally bankrupt in gluttony as a sin.

                  Or was it the food?

                  1. The thing is…

                    There might be people where obesity is a disease.

                    But what I know is that people are walking around being injured by wondering what is wrong with them and they develop an endless list.

                    No, I self-soothe. I self-sabatoge. I must not love myself. I eat my emotions. The list becomes endless because it is always a pursuit of an explanation and how many people accepted disease diagnoses and medicines and had surgeries because they didn’t know that there are industries making billions by hooking their brains and they change what they eat and stop having food cravings at all.

                    I have not had food cravings in so long. Nope, I feel like before we allow them to label it a disease, they need to separate out whether the person is just eating the wrong food or not or you treat the wrong thing.

                    1. If they are going to have people believe that they have a disease, could we call it, “I eat the wrong types of foods disease?” So the people won’t get injured by those thought processes?

                    2. Some of you who were just always slender don’t feel threatened by that.

                      Logistically, think of drugs for kids with ADHD and Autism, which widened to spectrums.

                      Okay, so is 5 pounds s spectrum disease?

                    3. So, at what age would you tell children about their disease?

                      And is that really better than a WFPB process?

                      Doesn’t it just add a false front?

                      Wizard of Oz the man behind this complicated false explanation we call a curtain.

                      Can we make television watching a disease so we can give the diagnoses makers something else to make a nifty list about?

        2. “Dr Lisle said that people who get obese generally only eat a 100 more calories per day than other people ”

          I find that way too hard to believe. Although I’m sure there are many cases where that’s true, I just doubt that it’s the majority, it would take irrefutable evidence to convince me of that. But I agree it’s the food, not just how it functions in our bodies but all the addictive qualities that make many over eat and the fact that they’re so stripped of nutrition that I believe the body is still starved for nutrition even after eating a day’s worth of calories on some of these refined foods, so they still feel hungry.

    2. It is inforative to look at their sponsors over the years – dairy council, coca- cola and pharmaceutucal groups if I remember correctly

      1. Powerful thought Tom.

        They are in cahoots with the food pushers!

        That is why it will have to be the people who have the disease of obesity and they can have it as an identity and it won’t be the food industries fault.

  7. I feel reborn since I am plant-based. My daughter moved me to do that. And in the course of dealing with the many questions about nutrition, I came across NutritionFacts.org. That is a great feeling of happiness. And I’m so confident and equipped with a great inner peace that it does not bother me when someone calls me Orthorexia.
    Greetings from Europe, Germany
    Sandra

          1. Laughing.

            It is set up so that any psychiatrist can use it against any patient at any time.

            It reminds me of when the Amazing Randy gave everybody the same generalization horoscopes and everybody thought that it was right on for their lives.

      1. Laughing, yes, either taking it or not taking it would be. Look at how they set up the questions. Always and never often pair together.

        1. Dr. Greger did say this was going to be a funny series and he was right! He said in an interview that when first looking into “Orthorexia” he had a very open mind.

  8. Drug companies are so desperate to increase their profits that they are now trying to turn normal things into diseases so that they can sell a pill. “Do you yawn when you are tired? Then you need a pill”.” “Do you have to urinate more now that you are getting older? Then you need a pill”.

  9. Ironically, since I have been on a WFPBD, I take far less medications for psychological and physiological(not that they are really separate) health. Without worrying about calories, I have lost over 30 pounds and am near my healthy highschool weight. Friends often just do not get my lifestyle and, although I do not preach or prosetylize excessively, they are aware. Recently a couple took us out for a surprise meal and there was not a single choice on the menu that did not contain meat, a milk product, and was fried. Each choice had all those components. When we get together with friends, we always bring food adequate for us and to share so as not to limit other people’s choices. Ironically these WFPBD meals are often favourites and get devoured. My wife is an exceptional cook and I do some cooking and most of the cleanup to support her. She does love cooking and is an artist treating our food as a work of art. We will skip the antidepressants and antipsychotics despite our very low scores.

    1. “…..since I have been on a WFPBD, I take far less medications for psychological and physiological(not that they are really separate) health.”
      – – – – –

      Far less? Good lord, how many were you taking before? Even “far less” sounds to me like you’re popping a lot of pills. I do allow a small amount of animal foods in my diet, but I don’t take any meds at all.

      1. S,

        That is fabulous!

        I am not on anxiety meds, and never was, but I did have anxiety, particularly at night.

        In the past year, I have had a definite improvement in anxiety, which I do think was linked to homocysteine and blood sugar and aluminum, etc.

        I still get night terrors occasionally, but not nearly like it was before WFPB.

  10. Not sure why this particular topic deserved so much attention, but it was entertaining. There IS however a topic that I am impatiently awaiting Dr. Greger’s analysis. So-called Ketogenic diets and the advantages of the Keto lifestyle are saturating (no pun intended) the airwaves. Some of my family and friends will comment on whether or not they are in “ketosis” (as if they can tell), and Dr. Mercola mentions the topic and plugs his new book on the subject at every possible opportunity. Is it truly protective and healing, particularly against cancers? Dr. Greger’s WFPB lifestyle research and recommendations make perfect sense to me! Can or should Keto and WFPB be combined? Can we expect some videos on this topic in the near future? Thanks.

    1. Alex W – Until Dr Greger talks about Keto, you may enjoy this video uploaded by Mark Hyman, M.D. He is sort of a keto-paleo mix and is of the eat-lots-of-veggies-no-dairy-high-fat-some-meat perspective. HIs guest is Dr. Valter Longo, who has spent his entire career studying diet and longevity and going wherever the science leads him (a la Dr. Campbell). He wrote his first book rather recently. His perspective for a long healthy life is basically WFPB, mostly veggies and legumes with a little fish once or twice a week, no meat of any variety, no dairy. He also made huge discoveries re: fasting and disease. Dr. Longo is truly the expert here and you can see his bio on the link. Anyway, their discussion is truly interesting and Dr. Longo addresses the keto issue. It’s just over an hour long but worth the viewing I think. Hope you enjoy it.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz4ZzNik1Y4

      1. I am interested in the vegan keto diet for cancer also. Even if for only a short time to “treat” the cancer. Is there any evidence? Numerous cancer clinics in Ty Bollinger’s recent tour of Asia “Quest for Cancer Cure” recommended the keto diet or vegan keto diet for cancer. Some other testimonials in Bollinger’s program suggested water fasting as an anti cancer treatment. So far juicing carrots and going vegan have not worked for colon cancer.

        1. I’d be cautious about experimenting with a keto diet for colon cancer if only because of this report

          ‘In the July 6 issue of Stem Cell Reports, the team showed in pre-clinical models that cancer stem cell growth in the colon was enhanced by a high-fat, Western diet. Cancer stem cells are a subset of resilient, aggressive malignant cells that are believed to be partially responsible for spread and recurrence of cancer.’
          https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170706121221.htm

          A keto diet is, if nothing else, a high fat diet.

      2. Ruth, Thanks for posting Longo video. Haven’t had time to view this one yet, but have been following Dr. Longo’s work for a while. Recent studies show that only two things raise BDNF, fasting and exercise. I’ve been waiting to see if any docs are going to try these strategies for neurological disease.

    2. Alex, I think that all too sadly, this topic did need such attention because people throw this nonesense around left and right and don’t even realize where it came from and so on. It’s not real and needed to be explained as to why. Plus, laughter is good for the immune system! :)

      Dr. Greger is coming out with stuff on the Keto diet and it will be in his book “How Not To Diet” … I imagine it will be a groundbreaking book. He also addressed it in one of his live Q&A’s that I saw and he did say that it was not a safe diet and pointed out at least one of the flaws in its reasoning. I can’t remember which Q&A it was in, unfortunately. It was a short but helpful answer to the Keto question and more to come!

    3. Alex, also look at the skeptic sites about Keto.

      I say that because Keto doesn’t work by itself against cancer. The Keto used, which did help cancer was a very strict form, which most people didn’t succeed at. Most of the people dropped out of the study because they couldn’t do a strict enough version.

      Plus, when they are having people do Keto, they are combining it with water fasting and intermittent fasting and calorie restriction and hyperbaric oxygen (which makes keto 30% more effective than without it) plus, Dr. Seyfried combined it with something to inhibit glutamate, which you wouldn’t have access to.

      Plus, not everybody can get into Ketosis in the first place. They talked about the Eskimos having a genetic anomaly where they couldn’t get into Ketosis.

      If you don’t get into Ketosis, you end up fueling the fire because animal products increase IGF-1 and oil makes cancer grow faster. Dr. McDougall has a talk about oil and cancer and so does Gerson. Charlotte Gerson said that her father tested every oil and all of them make cancer grow faster, except flaxseed oil. (I say her sentence, but I saw a video where a woman with breast cancer tried flaxseed oil and quark and it caused her cancer to grow faster.) It can work, but if you do it wrong, you are using oil and it is basically like using gasoline to put out a fire.

      With animals, Keto Pet sanctuary healed one animal of cancer using Keto, but they use surgery, chemo, turkey tail mushrooms, a type of Keto, which is 90% coconut oil and they keep animal products to 5% of calories. They also use exercise and hyperbaric oxygen and they add low glycemic raw vegetables.

      Purdue University dropped the rate of cancer in dogs 90% JUST by adding raw vegetables to their diet 3 days per week. That wasn’t with fancy schmancy food. That was with kibble. 90% just adding in raw vegetables.

      1. Compare those things Dr. Seyfried uses for cancer versus Dr. Goldhamer (Just using water fasting) or versus Dr. Ornish studies reversing cancer just using Whole Food Plant Based.

        If you already have cancer, there might be some tweaks to WFPB which might make sense.

        Increasing things like blueberries and garlic and cruciferous and onions and beans makes sense.

        1. A lot of people get confused watching the videos like Dr. Seyfried.

          I enjoyed watching him, but what I came away with is that it has to be a very rigid form of Keto to help and that lowering glucose is an incomplete method of dealing with cancer.

          Cancer can use glucose, glutamate, animal products and your own muscles for fuel.

          That makes it hard to starve cancer that way.

          WFPB lowers things like IGF-1 and Methionine, plus, vegan low oil WFPB people have lower A1C / blood sugar than Keto in testing.

    4. Alex

      The arguments for keto diets as cancer therapy seem to be largely based on extrapolations from first principles and some human studies where an anti cancer effect may derive from the calorie restriction aspect rather than the actual diet.

      Arguments from first principles might also recognise that cancers steal energy from the host to grow and replicate. They also steal fatty acids and cholesterol to build new cancer cells. This would suggest that fasting and calorie restriction would halt or slow cancers and so would low cholesterol/low fat diets. This might explain why we see fasting and cholesterol lowering drugs like statins having an anti-cancer effect eg

      ‘In this cohort of 2413 patients with early-stage breast cancer, nightly fasting less than 13 hours was associated with a statistically significant 36% increased risk of breast cancer recurrence compared with nightly fasting more than 13 hours but was not associated with a statistically significant increased risk of breast cancer–specific and all-cause mortality.

      Meaning
      Prolonging the length of the nightly fasting interval may be a dietary strategy to reduce risk of breast cancer recurrence in women.’
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4982776/

      and

      ‘Basic science and clinical research suggest that statins are also effective in the management of breast cancer. Specifically, in various breast cancer cell lines, statins increase apoptosis and radiosensitivity, inhibit proliferation and invasion, and decrease the metastatic dissemination of tumors. Clinical trials in breast cancer patients support these laboratory findings by demonstrating improved local control and a mortality benefit for statin users.’
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5716320/

    1. John Adams, I don’t know what Dr. Greger thinks about the “Impossible Burger” — but I’ve eaten it, versions 1 and 2. Both were too salty. The list of ingredients in both were quite long, though for version 2 it seems shorter. It’s a processed food. I try to avoid processed foods. So I rarely eat faux meat or cheese products, except occasionally to try them. I mostly cook at home, from plant based whole foods: veggies and fruits, legumes and whole grains, and nuts and seeds. I LOVE my food! So does my husband.

      But then again, I basically haven’t eaten meat for almost 50 years (and more recently gradually dropped dairy and eggs), and I don’t miss it. For those trying to move to plant based eating (though not whole foods), it might be a good transition step.

    2. Frankly, the ‘impossible burger’ sounds disgusting to me. As a chemist, I don’t want chemicals in my food. Don’t like any of those fake vegan meats either. All this stuff is just more processed food.

  11. LOL I think whoever made the ORTHI-15 has a mental illness… it’s insane!!!!!

    So according to that, even my past taco bell, ho-ho eating self was orthorexia.

    Brilliant series, thank you for making this! It’s very alarming to me that so much hype and credence could come from one silly little unqualified man from one ridiculous little article. What an insane world we live in.

    1. Thank S…as usual. We are so lucky that Dr Greger made his main purpose in life is to debunk this “institutionalized hypocrisy and criminal stupidity”
      Please, check this interview. It’s clear that he’s tired …but usual his comments and responses are brilliant.

      Dr. Greger interview after a lifestyle medicine conference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIwTcVdHLHk&t=16s
      Science and evidence data is so clear.
      I can not wait for the new book to come out.
      Applauds to all of you.

      Argentinean Doc living in CA

  12. Love the orthorexia series! BTW, my score did not even make it out of the 20s. Whoever devised the test is obviously uninformed. It certainly has been entertaining to watch Dr. Greger explore this topic!

  13. My feeling about the food industry and grocery stores is that they can sell us anything that will kill us just as long as it doesn’t kill us in the first 48 hours. Any time after that is fair game. I didn’t take the test but I would venture that I definitely have ON. And perhaps proud of it :-).

  14. You should have posted this on April 1st – what a joke this diagnosis is! Yet another ploy by the food industry & probably also Monsanto & other chemical moguls to make it look like avoiding their toxic foods & chemicals is a mental illness!!! LOL – too much!

  15. Just look at the state of people who never worry about what they put in their mouths. That will tell you all you ever need to know about a healthy lifestyle.

  16. So I was on my phone and couldn’t read the full ORTHO-15, now that I have…

    DEAR GOD…. It reads like shameless propaganda by the junk food industries. It actually SOUNDS like brainwashing and truly you would have to be a complete idiot look at this and not see that it’s completely nonsensical and even insane.

    According to this, we should all be allowing eating transgression ALWAYS and we should feel GUILTY about our transgressions OFTEN… LOL what?! So then we should all eat like crap and feel guilty about it? Yeah, that’s the road to a healthy-minded individual.

    Basically it’s a diagnosis that says if you’re not a mindless idiot, you should be.

    1. And why are parents forcing their kids on the path to orthorexia by making them eat their broccoli at dinner and not letting them have ice cream instead? These poor kids don’t stand a chance against orthorexia.

    2. S,

      I am beginning to see many “cracks’ in the foundation of the artificial structure that the meat, egg, dairy, and processed food industries have built over the years convincing people that the foods they produce are healthy. Doctors like Dr G, Campbell, Fuhrman, McDougall, Ornish, etc., etc. have now shown a bright light on the false premises on which this artificial structure was built. When a flimsy structure like this begins to fall, it usually happens very quickly, like the collapse of a “house of cards”. As long as freedom of speech can be maintained on the Internet and WFPB doctors keep up with their exposure, it will only be a matter of time. Only time will tell … we shall see.

  17. From the comments, it seems some listeners here may be missing the important point: Dr. Gregor does NOT believe that orthorexia exists. We have to appreciate his sarcastic sense of humor as he points out the flaws in the questionnaire.

  18. Revenge is the life of this world. Everyone wants to appear to be normal, not a criminal. They are terrified because they know how the weirdos are dealt with. But, if any citizen is discomforted in any way, most don’t hesitate to call the police. Many don’t hesitate to press charges, or send the offender to the psych ward for a potential lifetime of chemical restraint. The secret code words, “mentally unwell,” “not taking their meds,” “unstable,” are the most sickening attempt at the most brutal revenge. A lifetime of brain damage, and of pain (please see one of my works on this https://www.facebook.com/mike.fretty/posts/2153820771376327)

    Autobiography of a Vegan –

    Preface

    ‘ “Justice” actually means, ‘I will hurt or kill you if you try to interfere with my violent, murderous revenge. I will use gang mentality (police/courts) to crush my enemies. They will suffer and or die for discomforting me in any way. I will never turn the other cheek.’

    This is based on events that are happening all over the world. Today, revenge is masquerading as medicine. Millions of people are speaking out about the extreme pain that forced chemicals have caused them. Billions more are playing along with this facade.

    “If it were truly a medicine, it would be a choice. I mean, if you have to force a psychiatric chemical into someone, then it isn’t just torture; it’s rape too.”

    Opening Scene – Courtroom

    Judge: “Well you mean to say that this young man won’t eat animal flesh? And, he won’t put a choke chain on the family dog?”

    Mom: “ Well, yes your honor, I mean to say exactly that.”

    Judge: ” “Not abusing lower animals,” the son says… This is a clear case of psychosis. And, since the state psychiatrist has heard of this nonsense, and has recommended treatment, I will make my sentence accordingly. This young man, Michael Fretty, is hereby ordered to receive forcible mediation on an outpatient basis. This sentence is indefinite… Uh, that is, don’t you worry about a thing mom. This one will give you no more trouble from here on out [the judge winks to the mother]. It’s lights out for this one. Hahaha, well, you get the picture.”

    Next scene, Pharmacy in deep south USA

    Store Clerk: “Yeah, I seen that guy. He came in here to get some groceries. Next thing ya know I look over and all the customers are chatting with this guy. He’s telling all my customers about cruelty, and about Karma, and spiritual healing and all that… To me this is just as bad as when a homeless guy comes in rambling about shit. I do the the same thing every time. I call the police and tell them that this guy needs to get taken in to the mental hospital. I don’t give a fuck about what you say, this guy needs to be locked up. This guy needs to be medicated. Why? I was a nurse for several years. The real reason why is because this guy just makes me uncomfortable. I feel this terrible shit deep down whenever he talks. That’s how ya know when they need to be medicated…

    [the clerk attends to a very young customer who asks for cigarettes.. The clerk says, “Let me see some ID,” then he hands the kid a pack of Marlboro reds. “Enjoy, have a nice day”]

    No I told you! I don’t give a fuck what you’re saying! I’m calling the cops to have him put up whenever he comes around! Don’t you fucking question me, I’m a fucking nurse!”

    Dr. Greger, I’m going to ask you now. Please speak out against forced psychiatric drugging. Don’t just dance around this subject. All the victims want to see a video about this. They want to see you weigh in about Love NOT Force! (This isn’t a movement, I just made up this term) But, you can have it. Please use it in a video. It would be cool if it were a nutritionfacts official video. Inside the psych wards, patients are abused for trying to maintain a wfpb diet. They often will not let a person out, and will give them extreme doses of painful drugs, unless the patient agrees to eat meat every day.

    PLEASE! Help these people Dr. G! Get the word out! They generally don’t allow filming in these psych units. They know how cruel they would seem to the public. Well, they ARE cruel.

    Make a stand for them. NO MORE FORCED PSYCHIATRIC DRUGGING! A LOCKED ROOM NEEDS TO BE THE PATIENT’S RIGHT!

    mikefretty@gmail.com

  19. The test is ridiculous but there is a problem. Have you watched any of the thousands of videos on cleansing, weight , extreme frutarianism, % protein, % fat, % carbs, getting ripped…….absolute obsessive body identification and diet insanity.

    1. “The test is ridiculous but there is a problem. Have you watched any of the thousands of videos on cleansing, weight , extreme frutarianism, % protein, % fat, % carbs” david finch

      Some people make decisions according to the best knowledge they have at hand, and when their knowledge is small and/or erroneous and they are unaware of it, they would likely make wrong decisions.
      The question is, would they continue with the same eating habits once the best evidences for the correct diet have been presented to them?
      And I think sometimes presenting them the evidences for the correct diet may not be enough because the diet they practice could have its own foundation of “evidences” that would have to be refuted.

      The paragraph below is not about diet but has ideas related to what I wrote:

      “Truth is eternal, and conflict with error will only make manifest its strength. We should never refuse to examine the Scriptures with those who, we have reason to believe, desire to know what is truth. Suppose a brother held a view that differed from yours, and he should come to you, proposing that you sit down with him and make an investigation of that point in the Scriptures; should you rise up, filled with prejudice, and condemn his ideas, while refusing to give him a candid hearing? The only right way would be to sit down as Christians, and investigate the position presented, in the light of God’s work, which will reveal truth and unmask error. To ridicule his ideas would not weaken his position in the least if it were false, or strengthen your position if it were true. If the pillars of our faith will not stand the test of investigation, it is time that we knew it. There must be no spirit of Phariseeism cherished among us.” Gospel Workers 1892, 127.

    2. david finch, separate issues stemming from various problems depending on the individual. Issues I assume were always around, but enter youtube.

  20. Okay, can I make a very serious joke?

    Since this is a democracy, can we nominate NOT caring about the quality of foods as the next eating disorder?

    I feel like there should be a better nomination process and like we should get to vote about what is a normal diet and what falls under the “Eating the Wrong Foods” eating disorder. Someone else can give it a psychiatric name. I just want to ask, isn’t there anyone who has the power to make this competing psychiatric disorder?

    Okay, I will do one silly joke:

    How about eating breakfast for dinner? Or dessert before dinner?

    Are those eating disorders?

    1. I am not kidding about the competing psych disorder.

      Psychiatrists like having lots of disorders and that one could be useful.

      The questions could be:

      1) Does your food have labels? 1 2 3 4
      2) Aside from artificial coloring, how many of the colors of the rainbow do you eat every day? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

      etc.

      1. The advantage of really making it a psychiatric disorder would be that suddenly the education of the psychiatric and health effects of WFPB could be available on a wider level.

        Psych people being able to give nutritional solutions would be advancing the cause.

        Lack of nutrition is related to psych disorders and eating SAD is so dysfunctional that it makes more sense and there could be 50 questions.

          1. I was meditating on it and the inverse really should be one.

            I don’t say that as a way to get back at them for inventing theirs.

            I say it because if they are going to make this one and it is going to stick around and if they are going to make obesity an illness, how much more is eating the foods which cause obesity and illness and which contribute to mental health issues?

      2. I like the number 7 for it.

        7 colors
        7 days a week
        7 servings per day
        7 as an intensity scale

        You can fit junk food
        Processed food
        Soda
        Etc.

        Yes, I believe that A seriously useful diagnosis explaining why people are obese and ill and out of control emotionally could be put together and instead of giving people a vague notion that they aren’t healthy, they could use the test every week and maybe go into remission from their brand new psych disorder.

  21. I’d like some help with essential fatty acids. I type in what i eat on a good day on Cronometer and I get 2.8g of ALA and 7.0g of LA. 8.5g of mono fat, 3.0g of saturated fat. The foods are a tablespoon of ground flaxseed, a tablespoon of ground sesame seeds, 12 almonds, 2 walnut halves and a teaspoon of peanut butter. Plus whatever the other foods give. Should I get more LA to reach 17g? How to do this?

    1. Arthur, I’m sure someone else can give you more insight, but I just wanted to say that I stopped using cronometer a long time ago, it was driving me crazy. I find it much better, personally, to just stick to Dr. Greger’s daily dozen recommendations (which are the minimum, you can have more grains, greens, etc.) rather than worrying about ratios and all that. It seems more natural and I feel better eating this way. Plus, taking into account that he’s one of the most well-reserached M.D’s on nutritional science, it makes sense to trust his recommendations above all else. That is just my two cents in case it might be middy helpful, but hopefully others will weight in to give you the answer you’re looking for.

      1. I haven’t been concerned with this for close to two years. I feel like it may be important. It may be the reason why I can’t sustain this way of eating for long before i have to flex.

    2. Arthur,

      I agree with S. I have no idea what a “cronometer” is, and I’m a former research biochemist. I’m pretty sure that nutrition science isn’t nearly exact as you seem to think it is; plants are variable in what they contain, within ranges, depending on growing conditions, soil conditions, plant cultivar, etc. I try to follow Dr. Greger’s daily dozen, frequently falling short, but I keep trying, a tweak at a time. I love eating, I love my food, and my life, and I realize that it’s too short to spend on worrying about micro amounts of food components.

      Enjoy!

      1. Well said, Dr. J! I would have loved to have read your response back when I used to obsess over this. But I finally did come to the realization.

      2. Cronometer is a web or mobile application that allows you to estimate your energy requirements and estimate your nutrition requirements. You find the foods you eat on the database they have and this gives you an idea of the nutrients in your food. You’re right. Plants are variable. I’d still like some advice on whether it can be a problem or not and if so what I can do.

        I’ve wanted to limit ALA to the minimum requirement because I read in a book (Becoming Vegan) that more ALA is associated with increased risk of cataracts and maybe prostate cancer but not so much. The book says it could be because of bad ALA from animal foods and cooking oils because of cooking, poor storage. Whole plant sources are probably OK. Perhaps except for soy since it’s cooked for so long. Peanuts too. And other roasted nuts and seeds. So the sample menus provided have omega 3 levels between 5 and 10g while the omega 6 levels between 13 and 33g depending on calories. The book isn’t concerned about it.

        My mother, in her 60s, ever since stroke in late 2016, they put her on an antidepressant and blood pressure medications. Her eyesight has deteriorated markedly. It’s probably the antidepressant (cymbalta) or the amlodipine, or the coversyl or the stroke. Short sightedness. Cataracts was mentioned by the eye doctor. We’ve been flexitarian. Limit animal foods to 1-4 serves a week. Obviously limiting hasn’t made a difference for my Mum probably because of drug side effects.

        That’s why I’ve been limiting fats. The recommendations are always no oil since it spoils especially if cooked, and not much nuts and seeds since they come with mono and sat fats and calories as well as anti nutrients. So that’s orthorexia, or perhaps more appropriately dysorthorexia, in a nutshell.

        1. Whole plant sources are definitely ok and highly recommended by Dr. Greger and others. I would be careful to limit yourself of such an important nutrient (from whole plant foods) based on a single book (books so often have misinformation in them, anyone can write a book or reference a poor study or a study that wasn’t replicated or was disproven by contradicting evidence or was based on animal tests, etc.). If the most well-researched M.D’s on nutritional science along with an impressive amount of well-researched commenters on this site have never warned about “too much ALA,” that alone would be enough for me to abandon any worries I might have had over a book. Plus, the evidence seems pretty clear on how beneficial omega-3’s are. Personally, to me that sounds like a dangerous book based on that advice and I would advise anyone going vegan or plant based to not read it.

          I highly recommend you check out Dr. Greger’s video on cataracts and all his videos on eyesight, they’re incredibly helpful!

          Seeds do NOT have anti-nutrients, please check out Dr. Greger’s information on phytates. That is a myth. You can read it in his book and view it throughout this site and even in interviews or speeches. Also, you don’t have to worry about the fat in nuts, studies show that nut consumption only positively impacts health, so the fats in them are not harmful. If you want to limit them for whatever reason, go ahead obviously, but I wouldn’t do it because you’re afraid of their fats. As Dr. Greger has said in something (live Q&A or interview), it doesn’t matter if you’re on a low fat diet, high fat diet, etc. as long as you’re getting fat from whole plant foods. It’s a personal choice. I would check out his videos on nuts and seeds before making up your mind. And I would avoid limiting yourself from any healthy foods that you enjoy without substantial evidence which most fail to provide. That’s why I love Dr. Greger and nutritionfacts!

    3. Hi I’m a RN health support volunteer. You sure are diligently monitoring this. You are likely getting more fatty acids than you realize as there are some in vegetables and legumes and the other things on Dr. Greger’s Daily Dozen- https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dr-gregers-daily-dozen-checklist-2/
      You might like Dr. Greger’s blog post and some of his videos on essential fatty acids:
      https://nutritionfacts.org/2018/09/25/do-flaxseeds-offer-sufficient-omega-3s-for-our-heart/

      Keep in mind, the healthiest cultures in the world did not meticulously add up their fatty acids or calories or anything we tend to do in our reductionist view of nutrition and they had record health. Like in Okinawa.
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-okinawa-diet-living-to-100/

      All the best,
      NurseKelly

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