Where Did the COVID-19 Coronavirus Come From?

Where Did the COVID-19 Coronavirus Come From?
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The role wet markets, wildlife trafficking, and pangolins have played in the emergence of SARS-CoV-2.

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

A review published in the December 2019 issue of the journal Infectious Disease Clinics of North America concluded: “The SARS epidemic demonstrated that novel highly pathogenic viruses crossing the animal-human barrier remain a major threat to global health security.” Little did the authors know that by the date of publication, just such a virus was brewing. “[I]t will not be surprising if new coronaviruses emerge in the near future,” read another review a few months before. “[I]t is highly likely that future SARS- or MERS-like coronavirus outbreaks will originate from bats, and there is an increased probability that this will occur in China.” These warnings are not new, dating back more than a decade. “The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-like coronaviruses in… bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb.” A time bomb that just went off.

Now I hope you can understand how Dr. Li’s “7 SARS cases confirmed …” forewarning was so ominous. That’s why I did the last video about SARS, because it gives some context. It wasn’t the SARS coronavirus he found, though (the cause of SARS, severe acute respiratory syndrome), but instead a virus that would come to be known as SARS coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), the cause of COVID-19, short for coronavirus disease 2019. Before it became known as SARS-CoV-2, though, it was just the “Wuhan seafood market pneumonia virus.”

According to the director of the Chinese CDC, ground zero for the COVID-19 pandemic was the Hua’nan Market in Wuhan, China, where most of the first human cases could be traced back. Described as the largest wholesale seafood market in Central China, the Hua’nan Market reportedly also sold 75 species of wild animals. If you want to see what that part of the market looked like, you can go to bit.ly/HuananMarket, but I’m not going to show the photos because some may find them disturbing.

Although there are fish coronaviruses, 90 percent of the samples that turned up positive for the virus were found in the section of the half-million square-foot seafood market where those photos were taken—the part that trafficked in exotic animals sold for food.

The fact that the genetic sequences of the viruses obtained from some of the early human victims were 99.9 percent identical, despite the rapid mutation rate of coronaviruses, suggests the current pandemic originated within a very short period from a single source. Although there have been documented reports of the original SARS coronavirus escaping from laboratories, the fact that the COVID-19 coronavirus was optimized for binding to human cells in a novel way suggests that the new pandemic we now face was not made in some laboratory but rather natural means, though to lock in the necessary mutations the “animal host would probably have to have a high population density.”

The new coronavirus appears to share a common ancestor with the original SARS virus, for which it is about 80 percent identical, but it’s more than 95 percent identical with a coronavirus found in a bat in 2013. The current thinking is that the COVID-19 virus originated in bats, but then jumped to humans only after passing through an intermediate host. The pandemic emerged in winter, after all, when most bat species in Wuhan are hibernating, and no bats were reportedly found at the Hua’nan Market. There were labs in the proximity of the market where bat viruses might have escaped, but the virus was found in environmental samples taken directly from the market. Unfortunately, the market was closed and cleared before the animals themselves were tested, complicating the forensic search for the source. In the case of SARS, the intermediate host between bats and human-to-human transmission was the civet; in MERS it was camels. What was the intermediate host for COVID-19? The leading candidate for the stepping-stone civet of the current outbreak is the pangolin.

Also known as scaly anteaters, pangolins look like a cross between a sloth and a pinecone. But between the demand for their meat as a delicacy and their scales for use in traditional Chinese medicine, pangolins are the most trafficked mammal in the world.

Coronaviruses from two separate batches of diseased pangolins being smuggled into China were found to be about 90 percent identical with the COVID-19 virus. Not only is the pangolin the only other mammal found to be infected with SARS-CoV-2-like viruses, but the critical receptor-binding region of the pangolin coronavirus spike protein is virtually identical to the human strain. Work is still underway, but whichever the animal was, that one meal, that one medicine, may have ended costing humanity a few trillion dollars and a few million lives.

Given the role exotic animal trafficking appears to have played in the current global health crisis, some in the international scientific community have called for a ban on the sale of wild animals and a closure of live animal markets. Even infectious disease experts within Wuhan started calling for “completely eradicating wildlife trading.”

On January 26, 2020, the Chinese government responded, announcing a total ban on the trade and sale of wild animal meat, reportedly shutting down or quarantining almost twenty thousand wildlife farms across seven Chinese provinces, though the ban is only set to be temporary. After the SARS outbreak in 2003, Chinese officials enacted a similar ban on the trade of civet cats, but within months the ban was lifted, and the animals were back on the menu.

Much of the wildlife trade was already illegal in China in the first place, with flaunted bans dating back more than a decade. The Chinese pangolin, for example, is officially considered a critically endangered species.

That’s part of the draw, though, as a serving of “extra rare” meat may project prestige and wealth. A thriving black market already exists, and it could potentially be driven further underground by government action. “The ultimate solution,” wrote a group of Chinese scientists, “lies in changing people’s minds about what is delicious, trendy, prestigious, or healthy to eat.” Having spent the bulk of my professional life trying to get people to eat more healthfully to prevent chronic disease, I can certainly relate.

Even in the unlikely event the current ban was to be made permanent and was enforced effectively, there remains a glaring loophole: The ban exempts the use of wild animals for traditional Chinese medicine. So, while it’s currently illegal to eat pangolin meat, it’s not illegal to eat other pangolin parts. How ironic that the pandemic appears to have arisen in a market selling remedies purported to promote immunity and longevity. Pangolin blood is said to “promote…circulation.”

For only about $30 a pound, anyone can go online and buy Chinese bat feces to treat their eye disorders. While the drying of excrement would presumably inactivate coronavirus, the trade and handling of live and recently killed bats for use in traditional remedies could infect people directly, or certainly introduce opportunities for cross-infection with susceptible hosts.

Now it is easy for xenophobic Westerners to condemn cultures consuming rhino horns, tiger bones, and pangolin scales, or 21st century manifestations such as mukbangs (livestreaming broadcasts of people eating bat soup and the like). But, as I discuss in my new book How to Survive a Pandemic (all proceeds I receive for which are donated to charity), the last pandemic, the 2009 H1N1 swine flu virus, arose not from some backwater wet market in Asia, but rather was largely made-in-the-USA from industrial pig operations in the United States. So, for the emergence of SARS-CoV-3, we may need look no further than our own plates.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Motion graphics by AvoMedia

Image credit: Stephen Dickson via Wikimedia. Image has been modified.

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

A review published in the December 2019 issue of the journal Infectious Disease Clinics of North America concluded: “The SARS epidemic demonstrated that novel highly pathogenic viruses crossing the animal-human barrier remain a major threat to global health security.” Little did the authors know that by the date of publication, just such a virus was brewing. “[I]t will not be surprising if new coronaviruses emerge in the near future,” read another review a few months before. “[I]t is highly likely that future SARS- or MERS-like coronavirus outbreaks will originate from bats, and there is an increased probability that this will occur in China.” These warnings are not new, dating back more than a decade. “The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-like coronaviruses in… bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb.” A time bomb that just went off.

Now I hope you can understand how Dr. Li’s “7 SARS cases confirmed …” forewarning was so ominous. That’s why I did the last video about SARS, because it gives some context. It wasn’t the SARS coronavirus he found, though (the cause of SARS, severe acute respiratory syndrome), but instead a virus that would come to be known as SARS coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), the cause of COVID-19, short for coronavirus disease 2019. Before it became known as SARS-CoV-2, though, it was just the “Wuhan seafood market pneumonia virus.”

According to the director of the Chinese CDC, ground zero for the COVID-19 pandemic was the Hua’nan Market in Wuhan, China, where most of the first human cases could be traced back. Described as the largest wholesale seafood market in Central China, the Hua’nan Market reportedly also sold 75 species of wild animals. If you want to see what that part of the market looked like, you can go to bit.ly/HuananMarket, but I’m not going to show the photos because some may find them disturbing.

Although there are fish coronaviruses, 90 percent of the samples that turned up positive for the virus were found in the section of the half-million square-foot seafood market where those photos were taken—the part that trafficked in exotic animals sold for food.

The fact that the genetic sequences of the viruses obtained from some of the early human victims were 99.9 percent identical, despite the rapid mutation rate of coronaviruses, suggests the current pandemic originated within a very short period from a single source. Although there have been documented reports of the original SARS coronavirus escaping from laboratories, the fact that the COVID-19 coronavirus was optimized for binding to human cells in a novel way suggests that the new pandemic we now face was not made in some laboratory but rather natural means, though to lock in the necessary mutations the “animal host would probably have to have a high population density.”

The new coronavirus appears to share a common ancestor with the original SARS virus, for which it is about 80 percent identical, but it’s more than 95 percent identical with a coronavirus found in a bat in 2013. The current thinking is that the COVID-19 virus originated in bats, but then jumped to humans only after passing through an intermediate host. The pandemic emerged in winter, after all, when most bat species in Wuhan are hibernating, and no bats were reportedly found at the Hua’nan Market. There were labs in the proximity of the market where bat viruses might have escaped, but the virus was found in environmental samples taken directly from the market. Unfortunately, the market was closed and cleared before the animals themselves were tested, complicating the forensic search for the source. In the case of SARS, the intermediate host between bats and human-to-human transmission was the civet; in MERS it was camels. What was the intermediate host for COVID-19? The leading candidate for the stepping-stone civet of the current outbreak is the pangolin.

Also known as scaly anteaters, pangolins look like a cross between a sloth and a pinecone. But between the demand for their meat as a delicacy and their scales for use in traditional Chinese medicine, pangolins are the most trafficked mammal in the world.

Coronaviruses from two separate batches of diseased pangolins being smuggled into China were found to be about 90 percent identical with the COVID-19 virus. Not only is the pangolin the only other mammal found to be infected with SARS-CoV-2-like viruses, but the critical receptor-binding region of the pangolin coronavirus spike protein is virtually identical to the human strain. Work is still underway, but whichever the animal was, that one meal, that one medicine, may have ended costing humanity a few trillion dollars and a few million lives.

Given the role exotic animal trafficking appears to have played in the current global health crisis, some in the international scientific community have called for a ban on the sale of wild animals and a closure of live animal markets. Even infectious disease experts within Wuhan started calling for “completely eradicating wildlife trading.”

On January 26, 2020, the Chinese government responded, announcing a total ban on the trade and sale of wild animal meat, reportedly shutting down or quarantining almost twenty thousand wildlife farms across seven Chinese provinces, though the ban is only set to be temporary. After the SARS outbreak in 2003, Chinese officials enacted a similar ban on the trade of civet cats, but within months the ban was lifted, and the animals were back on the menu.

Much of the wildlife trade was already illegal in China in the first place, with flaunted bans dating back more than a decade. The Chinese pangolin, for example, is officially considered a critically endangered species.

That’s part of the draw, though, as a serving of “extra rare” meat may project prestige and wealth. A thriving black market already exists, and it could potentially be driven further underground by government action. “The ultimate solution,” wrote a group of Chinese scientists, “lies in changing people’s minds about what is delicious, trendy, prestigious, or healthy to eat.” Having spent the bulk of my professional life trying to get people to eat more healthfully to prevent chronic disease, I can certainly relate.

Even in the unlikely event the current ban was to be made permanent and was enforced effectively, there remains a glaring loophole: The ban exempts the use of wild animals for traditional Chinese medicine. So, while it’s currently illegal to eat pangolin meat, it’s not illegal to eat other pangolin parts. How ironic that the pandemic appears to have arisen in a market selling remedies purported to promote immunity and longevity. Pangolin blood is said to “promote…circulation.”

For only about $30 a pound, anyone can go online and buy Chinese bat feces to treat their eye disorders. While the drying of excrement would presumably inactivate coronavirus, the trade and handling of live and recently killed bats for use in traditional remedies could infect people directly, or certainly introduce opportunities for cross-infection with susceptible hosts.

Now it is easy for xenophobic Westerners to condemn cultures consuming rhino horns, tiger bones, and pangolin scales, or 21st century manifestations such as mukbangs (livestreaming broadcasts of people eating bat soup and the like). But, as I discuss in my new book How to Survive a Pandemic (all proceeds I receive for which are donated to charity), the last pandemic, the 2009 H1N1 swine flu virus, arose not from some backwater wet market in Asia, but rather was largely made-in-the-USA from industrial pig operations in the United States. So, for the emergence of SARS-CoV-3, we may need look no further than our own plates.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Motion graphics by AvoMedia

Image credit: Stephen Dickson via Wikimedia. Image has been modified.

Doctor's Note

If you’ve missed the first two videos in this series, check out Where Do Deadly Coronaviruses Like MERS-CoV Come From? and The SARS Coronavirus and Wet Markets.

Up next: The Last Coronavirus Pandemic May Have Been Caused by Livestock and R0 and Incubation Periods: How Other Coronavirus Outbreaks Were Stopped.

You can download the whole series (for free) right now here and take an even deeper dive in my new book How to Survive a Pandemic (note: all my proceeds from this book are donated to pandemic prevention charities).

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

103 responses to “Where Did the COVID-19 Coronavirus Come From?

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  1. I thought I would come and find the war of the alternate theories by now.

    The parts of this theory that I mentally make note of are

    That 90 percent of the samples that turned up positive for the virus were found in the section of the half-million square-foot seafood market where exotic animals were sold for food.

    That the genetic sequences of the viruses obtained were 99.9 percent identical, despite the rapid mutation rate of coronaviruses, meaning that it had sprung up within a very short period from a single source.

    That Coronaviruses from two separate batches of diseased pangolins being smuggled into China were found to be about 90 percent identical with the COVID-19 virus.

    The problem with having a culture of a crisis of trust is that it seems wiser to collect theories and keep track of them and see how they pan out over time.

      1. Fumbles, It looks like every “authority” is starting to use the “Conspiracy Theory” tactic to deflect criticism of their story line. Why not drop that derogatory term altogether and let each individual state his/her own opinions and theories and let the readers decide for themselves who to trust.

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/20/people-have-been-awakened-seeking-covid-19-answers-in-wuhan

        https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-launches-new-twitter-accounts-90-000-tweets-covid-19-n1207991

        1. Darwin

          Well, if people propose conspiracy explanations tor covid 19 what else do we call them except conspiracy theories?

          To my knowledge, there is no government, health authority or professional medical or scientific body anywhere in the world that thinks that these speculations are the most likely explanation for covid-19.

          And let’s be honest, it’s the usual conspiracy nuts who see all sorts of other conspiracies everywhere, who are keenest on these claims..

          Sure they may be a possibility and let’s keep an open mind. But pretending that these speculations are facts is indicative of a certain mindset. I can understand why you are uncomfortable with the term but let’s call a spade a spade and not sugar-coat the facts

          1. But authorities like these experts told us we would be in an ice age now, I choose to learn and monitor but not trust either thought right now. Experts screw up all the time they are human. If they own it then the conspiracy loses all credibility

        2. Where I am going to stand up for Darwin is that there have been questions by real scientists plural from a few different countries.

          Those questions require answers.

          Before we go to the concept of everybody being delusional.

          Look over to the blog section and KNOW that science and medicine and government and business ALL do ridiculous things for money and power.

          Are they beyond messing with viruses? Not likely.

          I think about some of the studies that were done on real live human beings in America and China and Germany and other places around the world, there have been enough abuses of these processes that the lab question remains one that needs to be dissected by top experts in the field, if anybody can agree who they are.

          If China totally fabricated the bat genome and the pangolin information, then we need to know that and start over with our perceptions.

          I think about things like the tuskegee syphilis study and China forcing people into donating organs against their will and I do KNOW that our current leaders ARE capable of stupid things like the ones they are being accused of.

          That doesn’t mean that they did it though and I come from the USA and we have a fondness for innocent until proven guilty.

          But, no, I don’t consider people delusional for not understanding who to believe.

          The exception is the George Floyd thing that Pete posted. I know that there are people who are so mentally ill that they could watch the video and really, genuinely get totally confused when people teach them information from that broad of a conspiracy theory. Even if they saw it with their own eyes, it already wouldn’t have made sense and I know that for a fact because I watched the whole thing and it genuinely didn’t make sense at all.

          Part of my brain has a “Nope, it doesn’t have to make sense because the man who was a cop is using a different logic” and what I have found out since seeing it that helped was that 2 of the police officers were rookies who were only 4 days into training under someone whose logic was totally messed up. They said on the radio today that when the rookies questioned if they should turn him over, he said, “No, it might kill him” with a complicated explanation of why moving him would kill him. Some of those men really being only 4 days on the street makes sense and one person not being smart enough to do the job and being arrogant enough to kill someone are tragedies but he is showing off in front of rookies or some idiotic thing like that is what human experience with certain males maybe tells me. No, it isn’t an excuse and I am not giving him an excuse. But having anything at all about it make sense takes away some of the trauma. Just a little bit. But some.

      2. ….delusion is in near pandemic proportions in certain parts of the world. I expect it has something to do with human fear response. People resorting to unscientific ‘belief systems’ because of an inability to come to terms with harsh, very complex and frightening scientific reality. Especially when it conflicts with religious belief systems which have prevailed for thousands of years. To deal with the uncertainty some seem to unwittingly resort to an unscientific, simplified and erroneous certainty. It may resolve the problem at one level, but creates a lot other problems at different levels. I am pleased Dr Greger is not in this camp, unlike some …

        ‘It was all staged: Obama tweeted about George Floyd a week before his death’

        https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-06-08-false-flag-obama-foundation-tweeted-george-floyd.html

        ‘Delusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness — called a “psychosis”— in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue’.
        In reality, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated.
        People with delusional disorder often can continue to socialize and function normally, apart from the subject of their delusion, and generally do not behave in an obviously odd or bizarre manner’.

        https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/delusional-disorder#1

        1. Pete,

          I guess what I will add is that sometimes delusional disorders are not delusional disorders.

          People believing the French Nobel prize winner or the Oncologist from England or the man making vaccines in Sweden don’t know who to believe and they do not know who to trust and we live in a culture where people are exploiting that left and right.

          Some of the least delusional people that I know have faith and some of the most delusional people that I have known in my life didn’t believe in anything.

          The fact that the flow of disinformation is faster and more insistent and sweeps experts into it, I think we can give the masses a break and not label them quite so quickly for not knowing what to believe.

          1. The fact that one scientist in 1,000 believes that it was an artificially manufactured virus, or for that matter that we should all be eating high saturated fat diets, or carnivore diets, or that all the evidence about high cholesterol and mortality is a Big Pharma scam, doesn’t ,mean that these beliefs are true or are supported by any kind of solid evidence.

            Speculation and alternative hypotheses are fine and need to be considered but when people start claiming that these speculations/hypotheses are incontrovertible facts is when things get worrying.

            People like Greger, the WHO, national health authorities simply say that the balance of evidence suggests a natural zoonotic disease. That sound like a reasonable assessment of the evidence. People who come here claiming that it ‘now known’ that it was eg a bio-weapon engineered in a Wuhan lab by some Chinese/US/WHO/Bill Gates cabal don’t give the same impression of presenting a balanced assessment of the evidence and I’m not sure that it is helpful to present them as equally legitimate and equally credible explanations. Where is their evidence?

            Having an open mind doesn’t mean clearing out rationality, critical thinking skills or common sense to make room for each and every alternative explanation no matter how unsubstantiated or improbable.

          2. Deb, it appears to be a somewhat irrational attraction to any belief which is not ‘mainstream’. In effect, an unjustifiable preference for the least probable rather than the most probable scientific explanation.
            This fear-based mistrust of the mainstream is healthy in small measure, but unhealthy in large measure. If the latter, it badly affects the ability to discern. Rendering one effectively dysfunctional.

      3. Tom,

        That is interesting.

        At some level it seems like TM(e)I

        Psychologically, maybe we are flooded with too much information from too many authoritative people.

        I took a class on persuasion in college and they talked about elections and the “undecided” non-experts who are confused standing in the middle are the ones everybody aims information at because they are the only ones who tend to move.

        There is a song by John Cougar Mellencamp “If you don’t stand for something you’re going to fall for anything.”

        Pretty sure it was him.

        The thing is everybody gets some things wrong and a lot of people get a lot of things wrong and there are people who get paid a lot of money to make sure of that.

        We need closure is what another professor said and they drew a circle where the ends didn’t meet perfectly but your mind closes the loop even though it isn’t there.

        There is a book on understanding comics that showed how two circles and a curve immediately becomes a smiling face.

        It just feels satisfying seeing a face in it.

        1. We like not being confused and will choose something to get rid of the sense of confusion.

          Coming from someone with brain problems, trust me, my brain hates this culture so much that it has devised a time-consuming plan to try to not be confused all the time by it.

          Get on my knees and pray we won’t get fooled again….

            1. I think Brain Games would say:

              We have TMI about ESS.

              We also have TL(E)I about this subject.

              We also have TME giving TMEE about ESS, particularly this subject.

              And TME giving TMI when there is really TLI probably increases confusion.

              Confucious might have said something like that.

              Maybe not.

              1. It was probably the well-known fake news guru Confusius rather than the ancient Chinese sage Confucius who said that. It’s very easy to confuse those two.

    1. Theories are a waste of time. Even if they turn out to be correct there is nothing that can be done until it is proven as scientific fact and therapies/medications also made from scientific fact are realized. Better to collect what has been made scientific fact as most theories never make it past the slightest scrutiny and many are little more than uneducated people creating conspiracy theories not based on even basic scientific reality facts.

      1. Reality bites,

        I somewhat agree with you.

        That is what I collected from Dr. Greger. It is enough for me to have that much information.

        There is a crisis of trust about experts – that they maybe are pressured by governments and the press into talking before they have dotted every “i” and crossed every “t” (An analogy which doesn’t work as well since so many young people don’t ever really write at all. Nor do they use a clock with a face.)

        Somehow though the not really having to dot every “i” or cross every “t” is part of the point. It never feels like the answers are complete.

        They didn’t test the animals. The lab was working with bats doing a virus study. Maybe.

        There are so many Snopes type stories that it becomes harder and harder to not get fooled from both directions.

        Fool me a hundred times, I stop listening and then I get fooled 10,000 times thinking that all of the answers are fake.

  2. [That 90 percent of the samples that turned up positive for the virus were found in the section of the half-million square-foot seafood market where exotic animals were sold for food.]

    I made a mental note of that too. With such a large commercial space and some 20,000 “farms” that sell wildlife (t=7:00), I’m guessing that the industry has the same lobbying influence on China’s regulators that Monsanto has here. It will probably take a lot of pressure from outside “grassroots” sources to change this.

    That’s why we all need to disseminate this message as widely as possible.

    1. The whole concept of a half-million square-foot – someone on the site had said that they were more like a farmer’s market or something like a swap meet. I can’t remember what the comparison was but a half-million square foot space is bigger than what went through my mind when they said it. About 10.5 football fields. That was the description someone used. Minus the end zones.

  3. I wish I understood better how the intermediary host species (the pangolin) transformed the bat corona virus into one that could infect humans. What I understand so far from browsing the abstracts of the source articles: The virus needed to “recombine” to make some sort of a protein spike that could fit, key-to-lock, into human lung cells (is that the ACE2 binding site?). I would like to understand that process better.

    Does anyone have a “Dummies” version of an explanation? I’m not the brightest candle on the birthday cake, so please keep it simple.

    1. If you can not understand it then why are you trying to get people to think you are a doctor with that screen name?

        1. This one I found particularly helpful, Deb (except for the gratuitous references to Lord D). Very interesting. I understand mutation and natural selection; I’ve been studying that for years. All that is scientifically valid, observable, reproducible, etc.

          So, it would appear that there was some sort of “recombination” event between the bat virus species and the Pangolin virus species causing a modification of the RBM… so that the new species could bind with the ACE2 receptors of human lung tissue. Is that summary in the ball park? =]

          Yikes. And fascinating at the same time.

          Thanks for sharing.

  4. My “gut” is a manufactured virus from the WuHan germ warfare military lab, that got accidentally released by some workers acting in a cavalier fashion. I am not alone in this thinking.

    1. Robert Knepper,

      Your “gut” may be listening to all kinds of rumors, but do you have any evidence that the virus was manufactured — by the WuHan germ warfare military lab, no less? (Does such a facility even exist?)

      And how does your “gut” explain all past pandemics? Were they all manufactured, too — by a germ warfare military lab, no less? Or is this the only one?

      Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You have provided absolutely none.

    2. One of the biggest motivators of people spreading these conspiracy theories is the idea of them having ‘special’ knowlege. So it does not matter if you are an expert in that field, they know more than you because ‘you are part of the conspiracy’ or you’re just an idiot to them. That is called illusory superiority or illusory knowledge and it is very very alluring to certain people.
      Narcissism is a factor behind this. When people spread conspiracy theories, they get a sense of satisfaction out of it. They feel like they are special. So sometimes the people perpetuating this are doing it for their own gratification but at a long term cost to public understanding of science and medicine and ultimately sometimes to public health.

    1. Stephen,

      Spreading the unsubstantiated rumor that SARS-CoV2 is an “engineered bioweapon” conveniently lets meat eaters off the hook — because their penchant for meat could not therefore be responsible for these horrific pandemics. Whereas all the evidence suggests to the contrary, that it does. Especially due to the way we raise and treat our food animals.

      Did you watch the video? Can you point to specific parts that you disagree with — based on credible evidence? And can you provide links to your evidence?

    1. According to Montagnier entire argument, the “presence of elements of HIV and germ of malaria in the genome of coronavirus is highly suspect and the characteristics of the virus could not have arisen naturally. However this was described as “a conspiracy vision that does not relate to the real science” by Jean-Francois Delfraissy, an immunologist and head of the scientific council that advises the French government on the COVID-19 pandemic. An article in the magazine The Wire explained how scientists refuted his claim.

      A Nobel Laureate Said the New Coronavirus Was Made in a Lab. He’s Wrong.
      https://science.thewire.in/the-sciences/luc-montagnier-coronavirus-wuhan-lab-pseudoscience/

      1. What Montagnier called the “elements” of HIV were short cis-acting elements that scientists had discovered in the genome of coronaviruses in 2005. They are required for genome replication and are shared by many coronaviruses. So if what Montagnier said is true, the whole family of coronaviruses – which originated over 10,000 years ago – would have to be lab-made, and this is obviously nonsensical.

        It is surprising to have a scientist of Montagnier’s stature utter such questionable statements – although Montagnier himself is a controversial figure. Among other causes, he has supported anti-vaxxers, homeopathy and a silly claim that DNA emits “electromagnetic waves”.

        1. He has lost all of his funding and nobody will work with him. That might be why he is going to the press.

          His analysis is superficial.

          Some of the other people gave it a better try.

        2. ‘Nobel disease is a phenomenon where a notable Nobel Prize-winning scientists endorses or performs “research” in pseudoscientific areas in their later years, generally (though not always) after having won the esteemed prize for some legitimate scientific achievement.

          What makes the term special is the fact that you’d think Nobel laureates (of all people) would be the most resistant to crankery. On the contrary however, the Nobel “disease” underscores the fact that human beings simply aren’t “immune” to falling for crank ideas — accomplished scientists included.

          The Nobel disease also serves to demonstrate how being universally hailed as “right” would appear to bolster the individual laureate’s confirmation bias more than it does his or her skepticism.’
          https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nobel_disease

      1. Mr. Fumblefingers,

        My brother posted a link to a Forbes article with the headline that a Norwegian scientist claims report proves that coronavirus was lab made…but this article has already been removed (“no longer active.”). I think Forbes has egg on it’s face, and some ‘splainin’ to do.

        1. A number of published papers along these lines have been retracted after other scientists pointed out egregious flaws in them. Perhaps the Norwegian paper was one of them?

      2. Mr. Fumblefingers,

        From the article you linked to in your comment:

        “ Publishing scientific articles as pre-prints without any peer review beforehand is controversial and complex, with one valid question being whether media outlets should cover pre-print work and risk potentially misinforming the public if the original results are not quite up to scratch, as happened with the recent HIV/coronavirus paper.”

        Sensationalism sells; so media will continue to cover dubious results, especially the more outlandish ones. And they almost never print corrections — sadly, that does not sell.

    1. Reluctant Vegan,
      You may be on to something; the last few pandemics are linked to pigs, camels, and bats, all are unclean animals according to Leviticus.

  5. Sir, I have the greatest respect for your work, but your perspective on this matter is misguided. It is already documented that this is a man made Pandemic virus that was funded by the WHO in the Univ of North Carolina with Mr. Fauci facilitating it under funding grants from the Carnegie and Rockafeller and many more globalists like them and managed by the Bill Gates foundation.When it reached the state of having “Gain of Function” to be a bio-weapon, the program was shut down and the WHO folks sent it to the Chinese Class 4 BioLab that these same globalist foundations under Gates had built, where Gain of Function made into bio-weapon that had at least four SARS protein “Crowns” sewn onto it to make it a massively infective virus, as documented by a type 4 biolab in India, Germany and now others..After Trump was elected, Fauci publically stated that Trump in the next year would face a pandemic episode. Trump would not have cut of all ties with the WHO and fired Fauci if he had not been given all the details on this manufactured bio-weapon. And it was a Chinese plan to release it in the fall of 2019 because five “foreign” athletes or other personnel visiting Wuhan for the World Military Games (October 18-27, 2019) were hospitalised in Wuhan for an undetermined infection. Many of our University Chinese students attended that and then returned to the college in Eastern Washington, where I do my work and in November of 2019, I was infected and on my back for seven days, with the most heavily congested lungs in my life. I had to develop a heaving technique using the Heimlich Maneuver in order to clear my lungs to be able to breath and get sleep at night. My friend, you do wonderful work, but you have missed the boat on this one. Mainstream media lies about it and facebook, Google and twitter all ban those that publish the truth. ANd the medical pubs do also since they do not want to loose funding. But for you,I recommend you admit that you will do more research and I would recommend the web site “Banned.video” and open your eyes because Mr. Gates has already said their will be another one coming and that one will have no cure because it will involve the modulation of DNA in the blood in human bodies by 5G. And yes that is being done, because look at the DNA and then look at a Satellite Dish antenna….see the similarities? Mankind communicates via these DNA antennas… I know, because, as a Senior Graduate Electrical Power Generation and Electronics Computer and Environmental Science Engineer, and Legal Professional with Medical training in immunological health conditions and remedies….I have done my research…and the best advise I would give you is visit the web site and parse through its older reports, with an open mind, not judging the reporters, because they are fighting the Globalists agenda to take down America, and are under heavy censorship…And I would recommend that before you look into it, pray and ask God for his revelation to be given to you in a manner that your DNA antenna can be reached. Brother, I love you for the sacrifice you made to do what you do because of your grandmother…but the real truth about the COVID-19 (Certification of Vaccination I. D.) is not found in bats in China…because it is a Bio-weapon in truth being used to fulfill the Book of Revelations in the Bible…in these end times..

    1. Mr. B.,

      …and if that’s not enough, psychics and astrologers say that this year of 2020 — with the wildness of many planets to continue for the rest of the year — many truths will be revealed to Naive Humans that will knock their socks off.

  6. Just a thought… I wonder if the vegetarians / vegans are having more immunity to fight against the Covid-19, once we (I am a vegetarian) don’t have the “animal match” in our bodies.

    Maybe there is some statistic about healed Covid-19 people which were vegetarians / vegans…

    1. Hi, Vanessa Kriete! You are not the first to ask that question. While there is the preliminary suggestion that dietary antioxidants may play a role in helping people fight Covid-19 infection, and diet high in saturated fat may increase the risk of complications, that question has not yet been sufficiently “put to the test.” It is known that diabetes mellitus, chronic lung diseases, cardiovascular diseases, and obesity increase the risk of complications from Covid-19 infection, and we know about the power of plant-based diets in these conditions. Until there is more evidence available, I hope that helps!

  7. As several people are discussing “conspiracy theories” around SARS-CoV2 oringinating in a lab in Wuhan, I thought I’d post a link to this paper which, to my mind seems to make a pretty good case for that point of view.

    https://nerdhaspower.weebly.com/

    I’m not an expert in genetics so do feel free to pull it apart if you are, or to explain how these two apparently contradictory theories can coexist, or draw whatever conclusions seem to make sense.

    1. Well, he has said that the bat and pangolin both never existed and that the researcher just totally faked the data on those.

      That being the thesis, would need to be proven and every intelligence agency in the world is looking for things like that.

      Not saying that the person is wrong but one of the links said that the greater the conspiracy theory, the greater the burden of proof required.

      When someone accuses the data To be totally made up experts should be analyzing that rather than posting it on the internet as a downright accusation.

    2. The cluey know that it was the Mysterons what did it All these other ‘explanations’ are just smokescreens to hid the real truth.

  8. It’s not a conspiracy theory when there is a BSL-4 lad a couple miles from the market. This video really hurts Doc Greger’s credibility. Ridiculous. Just as much science says it was lab made. Some of the most eminent virologists in the world say it was lab made.

    1. Robert,

      It does not hurt Dr Greger’s credibility.

      All previous of these viruses have been natural.

      We do not yet have official word of it being lab-generated and if some of the people who wrote about it are right, the people who worked in China would have had to fabricate bat virus data, pangolin data and the tests at the Wuhan wet market.

      To accuse China of doing something Intentionally or USA and China doing something intentionally or a lab faking data to cover up their mistake all requires more evidence.

      There is no consensus yet. On the contrary, there are a handful of people leaning that way and every one else saying that there is no evidence.

      1. How many theories have we read in 2 weeks.

        The French did it was one.

        Glad we have a US and China working together conspiracy theory now.

      2. Deb,

        Oh, I think it does hurt Greger’s credibility. He merely dismisses the “lab connection” without citing much to the contrary. Yet his audience has been able to come up with credible information to the contrary offered by experts in the field of bio-engineering and bio weapons experience. Deb, you really don’t think we’re going to get “official word” out of China on this do you? You won’t find more of a straight shooter than Jonathan Latham. I urge everyone to bookmark his site IndependentScienceNews.org.

        1. He wrote his book and made this video before the information you are giving was even available and most experts still are on the wet market side.

        2. I wonder if all the talk (lab, wet markets) is likely to have a productive outcome?:

          1. If the virus originated in a Chinese lab (highly unlikely) the rest of the world will likely never know for sure. The CCP will suppress the information, and otherwise not cooperate.
          2. If the virus originated in wet markets (highly likely) we may find out about it, but there is no guarantee. [China is not part of the free-world, and will only co-operate if it calculates it is in their interests to do so. That is, forget about it being a good ‘corporate’ citizen].

          3. We might convince China to more comprehensively ban wet markets.
          However, they will likely go underground. As so accurately outlined by Terry, banning things in a political hierarchy the size of China is akin to herding cats.

          4. The world has to come to terms with species-crossing viruses which originate in highly populous countries where there is close contact between human/exotic animals. If governments had acted quicker and smarter, (e.g, Taiwan) or followed the advice of experts a decade ago they would have had a vaccine ready for Covid 19. It would have been a non-event. Instead, 400,000 have died. We have to concede the west is guilty of a lack of vision, despite all the warnings. Including pandemic warnings from the unjustly maligned Bill Gates made years ago.

          5. The west thinks it is entitled to compensation from China based on them creating this in a lab, or ignoring the risks of the disease spreading worldwide. Maybe true, but Trump was also calling it a Democratic conspiracy until it was all too late. So guess what China will be arguing?

          6. The west has to ramp up investment in preventative vaccines for the species hopping viruses (sorry anti-vaxxers, there is no other way to avoid mass casualties), and attempt to have stronger international controls placed on lab experimentation (if they are capable of spreading to the rest of the globe, ideally they should conform to international standards and monitoring).

          7. Lest anyone gets the wrong impression, the right-wing conservatives (definitely not my political preference) are absolutely right about the Chinese Communist Party. Their intention is to destroy western cultural libertarianism, which they despise, and replace it with a global autocracy based in Beijing. If successful, it would make the pandemic look like a walk in the park.

          1. Pete You are one of the few people who fully gets it. In China 1+1=3 if the Party says is does. They can wheel out the gas lighters and sophists who will convince the masses of their own simplistic delusion. (Any idiot can come up with the answer “2”, but….) Unless people understand the CCP and the geopolitical stakes, all the chatter about this is meaningless. Like you, I share very little with the extreme right, but they understand power, if not much else. Terry Newman 特瑞 纽曼 General Manager 总经理

            T +86 (572) 228 3097 +86 (572) 228 3098 F +86 (572) 228 3099 M +86 159 5727 8210 terry.newman@ecquality-timber.com http://www.ecquality-timber.com
            ECQUALITY TIMBER PRODUCTS Co., Ltd Unit 1, Balidian Industrial Zone, Science & Technology Pioneer Park 313008 Huzhou, Zhejiang Province

            湖州环优木业有限公司 吴兴区八里店镇标准厂房1号楼 浙江省湖州市吴兴科技创业园

  9. Corona is man made virus, it has an insert in the genome done by people,

    It may be impossible to get vaccine for it.

    The findings are published by top Swedish and Norwegian scientists

    Chinese are hiding the facts and refusing any information , they poisoned the whole world.

    1. Antoni,

      Post a link to the findings so that people can analyze what has been said.

      There are experts on both sides.

      Post a link of what the ones you trust are saying.

      1. from the web :

        “It’s a risky business if you make a mistake,” Sir Richard told The Telegraph. “Look at the stories … of the attempts by the leadership to lock down any debate about the origins of the pandemic and the way that people have been arrested or silenced.”

        He added: ”It raises the issue, if China ever were to admit responsibility, does it pay reparations? I think it will make every country in the world rethink how it treats its relationship with China and how the international community behaves towards the Chinese leadership.”

        No scientists studying Covid-19’s genetic makeup have reported signs it was manipulated, except reportedly those he cites — Professor Angus Dalgleish, of St George’s at the University of London, and Norwegian virologist Birger Sorensen.

        me: try to find news by Birger Sorensen

        1. I looked up Angus Dalgleish.

          He is into things like Vitamin D and vaccines and CBD oil for cancer and Brexit,

          Not saying it with judgement. Just trying to understand who he is.

          1. The article that I saw he said “could have been” which isn’t very conclusive and the government investigators said that have seen no evidence of that.

            I think he is working on the vaccine but I am not positive because he does cancer vaccines.

  10. It was printed in Financial Time Newspaper just few days ago, originally from Daily Telegraph, you can find it, i am sure

  11. I don’t have much to say here. I think Dr. Greger’s video has some good information indicating the virus came from the market. The bio-weapon lab near the market gives some people pause. A Dr. Peter Breggin, in a video on this subject, points out joint (U.S.–China) coronavirus research that was shut down.

    1. Dan,

      Yes, I am collecting pieces of information and looking to see who gave the theories.

      They are investigating each theory.

  12. Many educated people in China take the same view of the consumption of exotic animal parts as do educated people everywhere. This is a primitive practice with no place in the modern world and it is not something we need to be PC about. No amount of pussyfooting around cultural sensitivities will change the facts. I have a rather cynical view of Chinese medicine encapsulated in the riddle: What you you call Chinese medicine that cures disease? Answer: medicine. There are all sorts of bogus claims made by snake-oil merchants. (Remember that is why we use that phrase as a synonym for fraudsters. We had them too.) These snake-oil merchants happen to be Chinese but to excuse their perfidy because they are Chinese is racist. These people are making money from the ignorance of ordinary people and no amount of tradition can make it right. Eating exotic animals because they are rare and exotic should be a crime. There is no way to justify such terrible practices simply because they have been going on for centuries.

    China is not alone in allowing these practices to continue. They also occur throughout Asia, particularly Southeast Asia. I suspect the only reason that more coronavirus pandemics do not spring from Southeast Asia is the climate. Whatever the reason, the font of most of these pandemics is China because that is where most of these exotic animal markets are located. It is true that any animal husbandry can increase the chance of viruses jumping between species, but the chances are lower and until we stop eating animal products there is no chance of farms closing down, so the focus has to be on where the greatest risks are and again that leads back to China.

    That raises bigger and more difficult questions about why the Chinese government is unable to shut down these markets. The answer to those questions can be found in the system itself, a system where only one voice, and its perfect echoes, is allowed to be heard. In essence, the problem is that a single voice that requires all other voices to seek permission to express a (vetted) view is anathemical to good governance. (Remember Dr Li?) So in the end, Beijing is ignored. In China they say that “the mountains are high and the emperor is far away”. When there is a crisis local officials will act quickly to mollify the emperor, but once his attention is diverted by the next crisis, corrupt practices are allowed to resume. In China, it is mostly government-by-campaign and when the campaign is over, things go back to the way they have always been. Anybody tempted to accuse me of racism or not understanding China needs to come and live here and run a business for over a dozen years. I hate racism more than anything else in the world, apart from humbug.

    1. Terry,

      I have been watching fascinating videos on how these markets came to be and it was related to the Great Famine and China not being able to produce enough food to feed its population because of Mao’s decisions when transitioning China to communism.

      So many people died and people were eating dead human bodies and leather and soil and anything they could find but so many people died. People were dying from starvation and from eating poisonous things and from being tortured and murdered. Some murdered for people to sell and eat human flesh.

      To me, when you have experienced that level of desperation in recent history, where people are probably still alive who were surrounded by choices like eating dead humans or dying of starvation, it is hard to get outraged even conceptually no matter how cute the pangolin.

      I don’t mean to say this flippantly. People in disasters often do eat human flesh. But it definitely kills the soul and once you cross that line during a 3-year famine, the PTSD that it ever existed has to be so high – even in the memory of the government leaders.

      We talk about the pandemic of 1918 and how it affected our country. They went through this within the time period that many of the people on this site were alive. We have very elderly people who were alive in 1918 and they will have people who maybe 65 or 70 who know it firsthand.

      I submit this comment with tears because I don’t know how to write it humbly.

      Sometimes knowing the history changes things. Yes, we still want them to close down the wet markets and not sell wild animals.

      But we never want them to lack food ever, ever, ever, ever again.

      1. Deb Your point about famine is correct and once desensitised and dehumanised, people will feel nothing for each other, let alone animals. Even now China is a trust-free zone. However, there are two problems with this excuse, for it is an excuse, the first being that these same markets exist all through China and Southeast Asia and the have done for centuries. These are the traditional food bazaars and although during the famine more exotic animals probably were offered for sale, they have always been a part of life. For most of human history life has been a struggle of course, so it is true that humans have never worried too much about their fellow creatures. That is a modern development and I think that’s the point: we need to move beyond this kind of thinking in Asia too. The second point is that to have experienced the horrors of the “Great Leap Backwards” (oops) and the cultural revolution you would need to be at least 50 (it ended in ’76 and the worst was over well before that) and people spending lots of money on these things are not necessarily old at all. On the contrary they are young and rich. I don’t have hard data about this, but it is just my observation that it is at fancy dinners that all this exotic stuff gets served. For medicine it is a different story, but that is just a part of the problem.

        The root of the problem in China is that civil society is dead, crushed by Xitler and his cronies, because it is a threat to their power. If you were to set up an NPO and go hard after the poachers and try to get stories into the press you would quickly come up against thugs that work officially or unofficially for the state. Those with interests to protect are closely tied in with corrupt officials and so there is no way to tackle these issues in a root-and-branch fashion. Whatever progress was made, it would quickly revert to the status quo ante. Sorry to be so negative, but you cannot un-see what you have seen.
        Regards Terry

        Terry Newman 特瑞 纽曼 General Manager 总经理

        T +86 (572) 228 3097 +86 (572) 228 3098 F +86 (572) 228 3099 M +86 159 5727 8210 terry.newman@ecquality-timber.com http://www.ecquality-timber.com
        ECQUALITY TIMBER PRODUCTS Co., Ltd Unit 1, Balidian Industrial Zone, Science & Technology Pioneer Park 313008 Huzhou, Zhejiang Province

        湖州环优木业有限公司 吴兴区八里店镇标准厂房1号楼 浙江省湖州市吴兴科技创业园

        1. ….’you cannot un-see what you have seen’ ……until it’s time to die.

          *I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.*

          Roy Batty

          ‘Xitler and his cronies’. How right you are Terry. Overseeing a secular-materialist, Confucian/communist cult of absolute power and soulless money worship. Which it intends to globally propagate

          1. tjn@tjn.com.au

            Terry Newman 特瑞 纽曼 General Manager 总经理

            T +86 (572) 228 3097 +86 (572) 228 3098 F +86 (572) 228 3099 M +86 159 5727 8210 terry.newman@ecquality-timber.com http://www.ecquality-timber.com
            ECQUALITY TIMBER PRODUCTS Co., Ltd Unit 1, Balidian Industrial Zone, Science & Technology Pioneer Park 313008 Huzhou, Zhejiang Province

            湖州环优木业有限公司 吴兴区八里店镇标准厂房1号楼 浙江省湖州市吴兴科技创业园

  13. Birger Sorensen is the scientist who discovered that the corona virus genome has an insert from manipulations by people

    The virus is man made, he concluded

    He published his findings which now are confirmed by others

  14. Hello. I have a question about vitamin b12. I have noticed that the optimum nutrition recommendations page has changed. It says to take cyanocobalamin (CCBL) chewable, sublingual or liquid on an empty stomach. By the way I would like to understand what the terms chewable, sublingual and liquid mean. The two brands (Australia) I have been taking are the Nature’s Own 1000 mcg tablet and the Blackmore’s b-12 Rapi-Melt (mecobalamin) sublingual tablet. The Nature’s Own brand says to take after food. I tried taking it on an empty stomach. I took it an hour before breakfast. It was very uncomfortable. I found this brand named Thomson’s Nutrition Ultra b12 1000mcg (CCBL). The directions for use say ‘Take one tablet daily (with food), or as professionally prescribed. Place tablet under tongue, until dissolved.’ Another one is this sublingual spray called vitaqik from Henry Bloom’s but it’s got ethanol so I’d rather not use that. What should I look for? Probably the Thomson’s one is the one I should change to. If there’s a better one that doesn’t make me release stomach acid that would be great. Perhaps a spray without ethanol would be best. I intended to ask a question initially so i might as well ask one. Should i ignore directions to take the tablet with food?

    1. Arthur, Dr Greger has a webinar on b12 coming up this month to explain the changes in his recommendations for b12 etc. June 26, and the last day to register will be the 19th.

      https://nutritionfacts.org/webinars/

      Sublingual means ‘under the tongue’. So you simply let the liquid (or quick dissolve pill) sit under your tongue to dissolve.
      I take one of the regular 1000 pills and split it into small pieces. I take a small piece every couple of days or so, after meals, (it’s my doctor’s suggestion) but you should follow your own doctor’s recommendations.

    2. Arthur,

      Yes, the recommendations changed based on the newest research but there aren’t very many brands out there that fit within Dr. Greger’s recommendations.

      His Webinar is coming soon.

      He did show a spray brand. I don’t remember whether it had alcohol. Just a concept of a yucky flavor.

      I may look at the Thomson’s one myself.

      I am doing a Cyano version from CVS right now. CVS says that they are lab-testing their supplements and they were the only place at all that had a cyano version that was local. Vitamin Shoppe had stopped carrying it and then they closed down.

  15. OK! but that does not explain why we find HIV sequences in the genes of covid 19.
    Patrick-Louis Vincent
    FRANCE

    1. Patrick-Louis,

      Reality bites already posted a resource arguing that it would mean that every coronavirus would have been lab-made.

      A Nobel Laureate Said the New Coronavirus Was Made in a Lab. He’s Wrong.
      https://science.thewire.in/the-sciences/luc-montagnier-coronavirus-wuhan-lab-pseudoscience/

      “What Montagnier called the “elements” of HIV were short cis-acting elements that scientists had discovered in the genome of coronaviruses in 2005. They are required for genome replication and are shared by many coronaviruses. So if what Montagnier said is true, the whole family of coronaviruses – which originated over 10,000 years ago – would have to be lab-made, and this is obviously nonsensical.

      It is surprising to have a scientist of Montagnier’s stature utter such questionable statements – although Montagnier himself is a controversial figure. Among other causes, he has supported anti-vaxxers, homeopathy and a silly claim that DNA emits “electromagnetic waves”.

    1. That is interesting, YR.

      Glad that they are cleaning up planting.

      Soy being on the list, that is the second news that could impact soy this year.

  16. A bit off-topic………

    An interesting new paper at the preprint stage that finds that people with the A+ blood group may be at greater risk of respiratory failure from Covid 19, while people with the O blood group may have a degree of protection.
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.31.20114991v1

    Well, it is interesting to me at least because I have the A+ blood type. just an associational study though.

  17. Can we please move past the futile debate over conspiracy theories and pay attention to virologists who’ve done real research on the origin?: A group of virologists led by a Prof Bill Gallaher (thread here: https://virological.org/t/tackling-rumors-of-a-suspicious-origin-of-ncov2019/384) suggests that SARS-CoV-2 may have come directly from bats, and even describe the precise vector: “The preponderance of evidence dictates that the PRRA sequence has been conserved in nCoV2019 from a long ago ancestor virus. It is not of suspicious origin…The definitive source of the pandemic is a mixed infection of viruses similar to SARS-CoV-2 and Bat HKU9 – copy choice error resulting in an insert in SARS-CoV-2 …[patient zero], infected in [a bat cave in] Yunnan, does not spread it there, but goes to Wuhan [new high-speed direct train service began in 2017], where he/she either falls ill or spreads it asymptomatically to another person, initiating the pandemic there. The initial outbreak occurs a short distance from the Wuhan train station for good reason – that is where it arrived. This accidental mixed infection in the wild, and infection of a human by some form of bush meat or bat guano, who carries it by high speed train to Wuhan – this is the most likely series of events leading to the pandemic. The only ‘laboratory’ required is the natural laboratory of the bat cave with multiple species of bats and bat coronaviruses.”

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