Flashback Friday: Do Natural and DIY Tea Tree Oil Cleaning Products Disinfect as Well as Bleach?

Flashback Friday: Do Natural and DIY Tea Tree Oil Cleaning Products Disinfect as Well as Bleach?
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What’s the best household cleaning product to use?

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

Household cleaning products can be hazardous, landing hundreds of thousands of children in U.S. emergency rooms. And, “[t]he product most-commonly associated with injury [is] bleach,” which can be toxic even if used as directed.

We’ve known that those with asthma who work with cleaning products day in and day out can suffer adverse respiratory effects, a worsening of symptoms, “decline in…lung function,” inflamed airways. But, even cleaning workers without asthma can be affected. Even below so-called acceptable exposure levels, cleaners with or without reactive airways can suffer a substantial decrease in lung function.

Okay, but that’s people who clean for a living. “Although [we’ve known] that occupational use of bleach may have adverse respiratory health effects, it [was] unknown whether common domestic use of bleach” in the household may put lungs at risk—until now.

“Bleach use was significantly associated with [nearly five times the odds of] non-allergic adult-onset asthma,” as well as ongoing lower respiratory symptoms, such as chronic cough. The way bleach works is as such a strong pro-oxidant that – the thought is that it can lead to leaky lungs, and allow allergens to penetrate.

This phenomenon of cleaning product-induced asthma has been known for decades. More than three-quarters of the dozens of population studies looking into it have found “increased risk of asthma” or nasal inflammation. Ideally,…safer [cleaning products] should be available.” Unfortunately, this body of evidence has been largely ignored by the manufacturers and commercial cleaning companies. And, most of the workers put at risk are women. In fact, that may help explain some of the “gender differences in asthma.” “The relatively high frequency of bleach use for home-cleaning by women…around the world, together with the strong association between bleach use and non-allergic asthma…, emphasize the need for (re)-considering the use of bleach for cleaning…”

There are natural, environmentally friendly cleaning products that may offer a safer alternative. Safer, perhaps, but are they as effective? We didn’t know—until now. “The effectiveness of three home products in cleaning and disinfection of Staphylococcus aureus [the bacteria that causes staph infections] and [E. coli ] on home environmental surfaces.” “The first report [ever] of [the] performance of purportedly safer alternatives.”

“In the home setting, some individuals will select conventional products, such as bleach, due to familiarity;” it’s a smell “some…associate with cleanliness.” “Others are seeking less hazardous and environmentally preferable…‘green,’ ‘organic,’ or ‘natural’” disinfectants, which you can buy or make yourself—so-called DIY (do-it-yourself) recipes, that typically involve ingredients like vinegar, club soda, and plant essential oils, such as tea tree oil, prized for its antimicrobial qualities.

So, researchers pitted head-to-head Clorox bleach versus a natural disinfectant based on thymol, which is from thyme essential oil, versus a DIY recipe of half club soda, half white vinegar, with a few drops of tea tree oil. You could probably buy the bleach for around $3, the natural stuff for more like $7, but the DIY mix for less than a dollar. Yeah, but does it work?

On the bottle, it says bleach can kill 99.9% of germs, which is the EPA standard for the disinfection of surfaces that don’t come into contact with food, like the bathroom sink or something. They claim 99.9% of germs, but when put to the test, the bleach actually killed 99.9999% of germs, completely wiping out the E. coli and staph germs, which even exceeds the EPA standard for food contact surfaces, like the kitchen counter. And, so did the expensive natural stuff—worked just as well as bleach. But, the club soda/vinegar/tea tree oil concoction… flopped, allowing as many as a few percent of the staph bugs to thrive.

Now, maybe they didn’t use enough of the tea tree oil, only adding about a drop per cup. But, from a performance perspective, “the [environmentally preferable] product is an effective alternative to…conventional bleach”—and, I would say, even better, since bleach is “well known as a respiratory irritant.” And, it’s “corrosive” too, and may end up damaging surfaces. What I would find interesting is to test how effective a cheap DIY thyme-oil solution would be.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Shari Weinsheimer via Public Domain Pictures. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video.

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

Household cleaning products can be hazardous, landing hundreds of thousands of children in U.S. emergency rooms. And, “[t]he product most-commonly associated with injury [is] bleach,” which can be toxic even if used as directed.

We’ve known that those with asthma who work with cleaning products day in and day out can suffer adverse respiratory effects, a worsening of symptoms, “decline in…lung function,” inflamed airways. But, even cleaning workers without asthma can be affected. Even below so-called acceptable exposure levels, cleaners with or without reactive airways can suffer a substantial decrease in lung function.

Okay, but that’s people who clean for a living. “Although [we’ve known] that occupational use of bleach may have adverse respiratory health effects, it [was] unknown whether common domestic use of bleach” in the household may put lungs at risk—until now.

“Bleach use was significantly associated with [nearly five times the odds of] non-allergic adult-onset asthma,” as well as ongoing lower respiratory symptoms, such as chronic cough. The way bleach works is as such a strong pro-oxidant that – the thought is that it can lead to leaky lungs, and allow allergens to penetrate.

This phenomenon of cleaning product-induced asthma has been known for decades. More than three-quarters of the dozens of population studies looking into it have found “increased risk of asthma” or nasal inflammation. Ideally,…safer [cleaning products] should be available.” Unfortunately, this body of evidence has been largely ignored by the manufacturers and commercial cleaning companies. And, most of the workers put at risk are women. In fact, that may help explain some of the “gender differences in asthma.” “The relatively high frequency of bleach use for home-cleaning by women…around the world, together with the strong association between bleach use and non-allergic asthma…, emphasize the need for (re)-considering the use of bleach for cleaning…”

There are natural, environmentally friendly cleaning products that may offer a safer alternative. Safer, perhaps, but are they as effective? We didn’t know—until now. “The effectiveness of three home products in cleaning and disinfection of Staphylococcus aureus [the bacteria that causes staph infections] and [E. coli ] on home environmental surfaces.” “The first report [ever] of [the] performance of purportedly safer alternatives.”

“In the home setting, some individuals will select conventional products, such as bleach, due to familiarity;” it’s a smell “some…associate with cleanliness.” “Others are seeking less hazardous and environmentally preferable…‘green,’ ‘organic,’ or ‘natural’” disinfectants, which you can buy or make yourself—so-called DIY (do-it-yourself) recipes, that typically involve ingredients like vinegar, club soda, and plant essential oils, such as tea tree oil, prized for its antimicrobial qualities.

So, researchers pitted head-to-head Clorox bleach versus a natural disinfectant based on thymol, which is from thyme essential oil, versus a DIY recipe of half club soda, half white vinegar, with a few drops of tea tree oil. You could probably buy the bleach for around $3, the natural stuff for more like $7, but the DIY mix for less than a dollar. Yeah, but does it work?

On the bottle, it says bleach can kill 99.9% of germs, which is the EPA standard for the disinfection of surfaces that don’t come into contact with food, like the bathroom sink or something. They claim 99.9% of germs, but when put to the test, the bleach actually killed 99.9999% of germs, completely wiping out the E. coli and staph germs, which even exceeds the EPA standard for food contact surfaces, like the kitchen counter. And, so did the expensive natural stuff—worked just as well as bleach. But, the club soda/vinegar/tea tree oil concoction… flopped, allowing as many as a few percent of the staph bugs to thrive.

Now, maybe they didn’t use enough of the tea tree oil, only adding about a drop per cup. But, from a performance perspective, “the [environmentally preferable] product is an effective alternative to…conventional bleach”—and, I would say, even better, since bleach is “well known as a respiratory irritant.” And, it’s “corrosive” too, and may end up damaging surfaces. What I would find interesting is to test how effective a cheap DIY thyme-oil solution would be.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Shari Weinsheimer via Public Domain Pictures. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video.

128 responses to “Flashback Friday: Do Natural and DIY Tea Tree Oil Cleaning Products Disinfect as Well as Bleach?

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  1. So many of us grew up with bleach as what everybody used and in our old houses with high-quality materials I never have heard anyone complain about it damaging their surfaces.

    I love steam cleaning versus anything.

    But I still use bleach in my toilet.

    I don’t reach in and grab things out like they do in the commercials.

    The smell of clean made me think about the YouTube video where the NASA guy decided to see if he could figure out how much pee was in a swimming pool and what he said was that it is pee that causes the pools to smell like public pools.

    He did a test with just the chlorine and water in one bucket and there was no smell at all.

    Then, he tested chlorine and water with pee added in and said, “Wow, that smells just like the public pools.”

    1. Pool smell is due, not to chlorine, but to chloramines, chemical compounds that build up in pool water when it is improperly treated. Chloramines result from the combination of two ingredients: (a) chlorine disinfectants and (b) perspiration, oils and urine that enter pools on the bodies of swimmers. Even polls with ZERO PEE smell like chlorine.

        1. The biggest thing was that it what I always thought of as chlorine smell is not chlorine smell.

          It is the pee, oils, and sweat affecting the chlorine that creates the smell.

    2. I say your “NASA guy” has a terrible sense of smell then. I’ve been around private pools that reeked of chlorine and no one had been in the water but the owner for a month. Owners tend to not urinate in their own pools, and that pool rarely has visitors. My favorite pool system is saline.

      Another time I was using municipal water from the hose to wash down something (forgot what) and Mom says “What’s that smell?” to which my immediate reply was “The chlorine in that city water”. Another time on that project I ran out of my home-bottled well water and tried to drink the tap water–no no no way. Funky chemical city-smell and taste. Mom and myself get our water from wells. I’d rather dehydrate for a few hours than to taste that stuff again. I can always tank back up later.

      You put any amount of sodium hyperchlorate in a bucket of otherwise pure water and I assure you I can detect it. If you pee it it I’m sure I’ll smell that too! Happy Independence Day!

      1. I don’t think nutritionfacts.org are backed by any companies, only their subscribers. That’s the whole basis of Dr.Greger’s work, unbiased science! Great video! I just can’t find the product with .05 thymol in it, the bottle looks different and it’s not listed in the active ingredients.

        1. Michelle,

          Your correct, NF is not funded by any companies. It’s one of the reasons that Dr. G and crew can remain as objective as possible.

          As to the Thymol…. it takes a bit of looking about however, you will find some products in the more “healthy” oriented stores……

          Dr. Alan Kadish moderator for Dr. Greger http://www.Centerofhealth.com

          1. The video said that the tea-tree oil solution flopped, but it did kill over 99% of germs on ceramic and nearly that much on stainless steal. That doesn’t sound like a flop to me. May be it would have done better if it had less vinegar and more tea-tree. It didn’t seem like a tea-tree test to me, but a vinegar test. people have been using vinegar for years as a disinfectant, but when you mix it wit club soda it becomes much less effective, since vinegar is highly acid and club soda is alkaline. They cancel each other out. I could never understand why people use vinegar and baking soda together in the same cleaner, as they work against each other instead of against the microbes.

            1. 100% agree with this comment! FLOP???? Are you serious. It kills 99% of germs and that’s somehow a failure? For myself, even if it was less, like 96%, the couple percent I lose are worth the benefits of using a natural, safe product like tea tree. And truthfully, this is much, much too low of a tea tree dilution–it should have had a greater percentage of tea tree in the solution. Also, I’m very curious to know why they didn’t test Thyme essential oil, which contains on average 48% thymol, the main ingredient in 7th generation cleaner. It would have been more interesting to find out if the DIY thyme cleanser could stand up to the professional natural cleanser.

  2. I have been doing the infrared for nitric oxide and, last night, I realized that I could add in my vie light knock off.

    I am thinking that irradiating the nasal passages might be more direct somehow.

    I also have seen an infrared device for cold sores which is closer to a wavelength that is genuinely being tested for COVID-19.

    It costs close to $300 and I couldn’t justify it, but if the deaths start jumping again, I might find a way to justify it and I will have lights up my nostrils and one in my mouth a few times a day.

    Yes, I know I am ridiculous sometimes, but mostly I am just curious about proof of concept. I just like to find lots of ways to do things.

    Those things would increase NO and that is helpful.

    I don’t know if there is an upper limit to how much NO you should get.

    1. Deb, regarding your math question from yesterday when you were describing your Nasal Saline Irrigation, I answered it yesterday’s comment section, but I’ll repeat it below in case you didn’t see it there.

      Original Question:
      “There was less viral shedding. It quickly became math and I would like to ask any math person if they could tell me in plain language what ≥0.5 log10 per day means. It means almost nothing to me but I still liked reading the word reduction with regards to viral shedding.”

      Answer:
      Deb, regarding your math question, >= means “equal to or greater than”.

      The percentage reduction of a 0.5 Log 10 reduction is given by the formula :

      P= [1 – 10 exp(-L) ] x 100 where L is the log reduction,

      so 0.5 Log 10 = 68.377 % reduction

      See:

      https://microchemlab.com/information/log-and-percent-reductions-microbiology-and-antimicrobial-testing

      1. Darwin,

        My hero!

        And they gave a cool easy chart! Hooray!

        1 log reduction = 90% reduction
        2 log reduction = 99% reduction
        3 log reduction = 99.9% reduction
        4 log reduction = 99.99% reduction
        5 log reduction = 99.999% reduction
        6 log reduction = 99.9999% reduction

        1. Darwin,

          That is already exciting to me.

          If I use nasal saline irrigation, even if I get the virus, I can have a 68.377 % reduction in viral shedding and can decrease the chance that the people in close proximity to me will get it by 35% and I can decrease how severe my own case is by 22%.

    2. ‘I don’t know if there is an upper limit to how much NO you should get.’

      ‘Bacterial endotoxin and certain proinflammatory cytokines can lead to profound vasodilatation and decreased vasopressor responsiveness—the main clinical features of septic shock. These cardiovascular effects result from excessive nitric oxide production….’
      https://heart.bmj.com/content/85/3/342

      Eating healthy whole plant foods and engaging in regular physical exercise are probably the best and safest ways of optimising NO production. Self-medicating with pills, potions and various devices may be risky especially without regular medical supervision. I recall that Lonie was a great proponent of this type of behaviour. However, I don’t think that he derived much benefit from it. Frankly, it sounds a lot riskier than the tried and tested solution of healthy diet and exercise.

      1. Thanks, Tom.

        I agree that diet and exercise are the most important.

        I am interested in the infrared because it increases NO, lowers cortisol, improves insulin resistance, improves cardiac function increases blood flow, and decreases pain.

        I liked Dr Burke’s YouTube video. He seduced me with gory before and healthy after videos.

        He is a pHD, too. Lots of those out there.

        My cousins foot is slowly improving.

        I am using infrared myself, right now, as a test before giving infrared to both of my brothers and my father who will not necessarily ever correct their eating so any improvement in cardiac function and insulin resistance could keep them alive longer.

        I am giving the one I am using to one brother tomorrow.

        Part of the reason I like it is that Dr Burke had ridiculously good results with 3 sessions per week. And the maximum usage is 30 minutes twice a day.

        Results get worse if you treat an area for longer than 30 minutes and I wish I knew the researcher so I could ask, “Do you think the NO went up too high, or something?”

        If it decreases cortisol, that already is a blessing.

        If it improves insulin resistance, it could maybe help the brain to see the leptin and they could maybe eat less junk food or something.

          1. Tom,

            Lonie ate pretty well and genetics-wise, his mother ate well.

            His liked the keto teachings and things like fasting…..

            I hope he isn’t on the floor somewhere.

            1. Yes but he did take a lot of pills I understand. He also gave the impression that he liked to use gadgets.

              One of the risks is that, even if the individual pills or whatever were relatively safe on their own, we wouldn’t necessarily know if they interacted with each other.

              Keto can be pretty risky too. In the classic ketogenic diet (KD) used to treat children with intractable epilepsy, this study from 15 years ago found that ’22 (17.1%) patients ceased the KD because of various kinds of serious complications, and 4 (3.1%) patients died during the KD, two of sepsis, one of cardiomyopathy, and one of lipoid pneumonia.’
              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1198735/

              it’s therefore possible that he had more risk factors than he (or we) appreciated. Anyway, let’s just hope that he is taking it easy somewhere and recovering from whatever it was that ailed him.

          2. Deb, I use infrared and near-infrared with visible red spectrum. It works faster, melting pain away in seconds. I never use it no more than 10 minutes at a time as longer could fatigue the mitochondria that are stimulated and energized by it. I used to use it up to twice a day, but only use it occasionally now that it healed me so well.

    3. Due to the autopsy studies coming out, I think a natural blood thinner would be the way to go as COVID appears to make mini clots by the hoarded. On another note, I have the 7th generation with Thymol. The smell is somewhat off putting to me which is why I make my own concoction but it’s nice to know it can clean my office nicely and then some diffusing afterwards for a more pleasant smell.

      1. Lori, the best natural clot prevention that I know of is sweet red peppers/paprika. Not only does it dissolve clots tn the wrong places in your body, it also prevents/stops internal bleeding, even nosebleeds and female hemorrhages. I prescribe paprika by the heaping tablespoon for those who are injured while taking prescription blood thinners.It usually takes only one dose [one heaping tablespoon] mixed with water or juice, to staunch bleeding in short order. It also regulates blood pressure, like when someone is going into shock.

  3. I have been using Oxiclean for years, since I have a history of severe allergic rhinitis and chlorine bleach has always been a corrosive irritant to my nasal passages. Oxiclean is basically hydrogen peroxide, famous in my youth as a DYI hair bleach. Does anyone know how it stacks up against chlorine or the natural product?

    1. Barbie, I’m not sure how good of an antimicrobial Oxycline is, I use a cheap Vodka in a spray bottle. The smell doesn’t bother me like bleach.

    2. Chemistry teacher told my son that it is better than bleach for household disinfecting, although that does not seem possible according to the study Dr.
      G mentions.

    3. Barbie, for decades we have used a home mix of a bottle of hydrogen peroxide (the 3% sold in stores) with two teaspoons of dish detergent (to break the surface tension). For sinks and counters, I follow directions I read somewhere on a government site long ago and do a two-step process: spray and wipe off debris, then spray and let sit for five minutes before wiping. I use the powdered Oxiclean in my laundry. When coronavirus hit, I was pleased to see that hydrogen peroxide was one of the recommendations for cleaning hard surfaces. I prefer not to use chlorine bleach because it isn’t good for the septic system. Hydrogen peroxide breaks down into oxygen and water.

      I tried that thymol product once and could not stand the lingering strong smell. It didn’t rinse off, even in the sink. Gack!

    4. Barbie, you can check if the product you use is on ‘the list’ of recommended products that the government is continually updating. It’s a pdf download and you should e able to goggle for it.
      This is the product (one of them) that I use https://projectclean.com/products-din It’s Oxygenic, and very effective.

  4. How about electrolyzed water, hypochlorous acid it’s fda epa approved as no rinse food cleaners (they spray it on fruits and vegetables at Whole Foods) at 60ppm and at 200 ppm it is a safe disinfectant

    1. Brett,

      That is a cool idea for disinfecting fruit and veggies.

      Most other things I use steam, but I love raw fruits and veggies.

  5. Alright, your vid talks about bleach solution being ok re sanitizing in relation to Ecoli and Staph contamination (but asthma causing could be a problem). However, since Covid19 raised its ugly head about three or so months ago, I have been sanitizing all groceries (except bare cardboard wrapped ones [egg cartons, for example] which would only absorb) and other things coming into this house with a 1:200 solution of bleach and water (as recommended, I seem to recall by MG, and I test the solution with Hydrion strips to confirm 1:200 level, first). However, at this time in history, what about the anti Covid19 effectiveness of DIY sanitizers (with tea tree oil as an ingredient) that most people are concerned about? I will continue with 1:200 bleach until I learn of a more friendly DIY sanitizing solution because I don’t detect any asthma problems for myself wrt bleach.

    I’m happy to report that on Vancouver Island (the island as big as England off the west coast of BC) where we live, is very, very low (single digit deaths and double digit cases) for Covid19 largely, I think, a result of the ferries from the mainland having been shut down to all except essential traffic for several months. We’re very happy we don’t live in Florida, Texas, Arizona, Washington, California or other US states which have been opened up for economic reasons with apparently no regard for the risk to the people there.

    1. Maybe I’m not logical enough, but I fail to see the logic in two different situations with regard to COVID-19:
      (1) They say not to put your fingers in your mouth without being sure your hands are clean first. On the other hand, they say food is low risk. What about a doughnut, freshly baked, say, (although I know no one reading this is buying doughnuts,) upon which a baker has breathed or coughed COVID-19 virus particles? Why is my hand more dangerous to me than a freshly baked doughnut? (Consequently, I am viewing produce with a very wary eye.)
      (2) They say to wash one’s hands with soap and water. That’s fine, but why is it acceptable to wash produce, then, with just water? Why is produce safe to eat when just washed with water, but my hands are not clean until I’ve used soap?
      These two situations are not logical to me. I wish someone would explain this!
      Addendum: Is well water less safe with which to wash things since it is not chlorinated?

      1. Good questions. Sometimes y’gotta wonder if a few of these articles (like washing produce with just tap water) are merely space fillers.

      2. Liisa,

        I did pose that question to the guy who did the studies saying that it would be really difficult to get COVID-19 from food. But I do think the answer was, “But not impossible” and the “But not impossible” was a good enough answer for me.

        I think produce is the food that I am more careful with. Mostly, everything else I touch I can wait a day and feel safe, but Dr. Barnard said that COVID can last longer in a refrigerator and there have been multiple stories of people who intentionally coughed on produce. One person licked their hands and touched everything, from what I remember.

    2. Granville: I wish I were living in Vancouver Island, pandemic or not, because I hear Vancouver Island is the only place in Canada that has a mild climate all year.

  6. I have met people (customers in my market) who occasionally ingest a few drops of TTO with water, claiming it’s a good antiviral. But some of my Search queries have revealed the oil may be toxic. So be careful to research this before trying it out internally.

    I think that’s why I’ve never found a tincture of TTO. The bottles always have a regular screw-on cap.

    1. I have met people who got a friend of mine to do that with bleach.

      The people swore by it.

      I had a very long talk with her because it was the fifth or sixth crazy thing she was trying without Googling it next to the word, “scam” to find out who fled to Mexico trying to avoid jail time after making a killing recommending it.

      Google has a flaw that it will try to recommend counter advice to every Whole Food Plant-Based thing, but it will just give people scam thing after scam thing without also offering a site with a warning at the same time to them.

      She got better eventually. She started buying things and then calling me before she used them.

      And I applauded and said, “Yes, that is better. You will get sick of returning it and eventually you will do the Google process yourself, but call me every single time.’

      Then, she started calling from her cell phone inside the health food store and I would Google with her on the phone.

      Then, she stopped doing that and went Keto because Dr. Axe is cute and pleasant and Dr. Berg is such a nice guy.

      And I can’t do anything about it.

  7. Wow, does do the instances of asthma subside when terminating bleach use? Does a whole foods plant based diet help reverse the effects of the toxic interactions?

    I like the thyme oil idea! great smell too!

    Maybe we find patchouli is going to do the trick after all? :)

  8. The fruit and veg problem is easy enough. CV19 doesn’t survive well under warmer and more humid conditions. It only remains viable for 24 hours on cardboard (absorbant) or up 2-3 days on metal and plastic surfaces in lab conditions. . I guess most fruit and veg would be like cardboard but buy farm fresh, wash it in water and leave it wet or just leave it as is at room temperature for 3 days, preferably in warm higher humidity conditions. If food has to go in refrigerator sooner, remember the virus will live longer, steam food or dunk in hot water before eating it. Separate ‘raw’ & ‘heat treated” foods and preparation surfaces and wash hands inbetween like you would of you cooked meat. Don’t ingest soaps, bleach or other disinfectants,

  9. An old friend said she hasn’t been to our local library since it reopened a couple of weeks ago. The second floor (periodicals) now has only one chair at a reading table whereas before the tables housed four. And of course every patron is now required to wear a mask. (I’d like to find one saying “Stick ’em up.”)

    The reason she hasn’t gone back yet is she thinks the tiny little virus is going to fly all the way over from wherever it was, lurk near Page 3 of, say, the Wall Street Journal, and lie in wait until Virginia starts reading said newspaper. Then, with its hungry little eyes, take aim, and fly (or whatever it does) into/on her body somewhere, and yikes, Virginia becomes C19 Positive! Whether or not she ends up in the hospital, we can only imagine in this not so likely scenario. But then who knows! Maybe her fate is to die this way. It’s not for us to say.

    She could don some blue gloves to protect her hands. Unless…the virus flies into her left eye. Unless….

  10. Bleach:
    –I mix a bit of bleach in a big jug of water and pour a bit of this in my toilet to keep it fresh. I was using vinegar. Bleach is cheeper.
    –In the house painting trade, bleach is used to kill mold on surfaces. There is trade talk that bleach does not kill all of the mold, and that there are better things to use, like maybe peroxide. It is my experience though that bleach knocks down mold well. If it doesn’t work the first time, keep applying it for better results. Mold is not something one gets rid of anyway. It is everywhere. I think I’ve heard there can be two hundred thousand mold particles in a cubic yard of air.
    –There are cleaning no-no’s. Never mix amonia with beach in a closed area. This can kill you. When useing bleach, dilute it with water. A little bit goes a long ways. Use ventilation. Try a powered oxidizer, like Ajax or Comet.
    –It is my guess that oxidizers, when used properly, like in drinking water, swimming pools and diluted cleaning applications, do far more good than harm.

  11. Happy to hear that Tea Tree Oil holds its own with bleach. Dr. Gregor recommends bleach in a few places in the new book for chicken and COVID-19. How Tea Tree Oil be effective here as well?

    1. There is some confusion. It was thyme THYMOL as in the natural store bought cleaner featured in the video that worked. He said the Tea Tree actually failed the test. Just concerned for your health!

  12. Off subject, interesting article on tea polyphenols. I read several, and basically, the hotter the water used, and the longer it is brewed the more nutrients you get. The reason it’s advised to use lower temp water, and short brewing time for green is because it gets bitter.
    But that bitter you are tasting is the good stuff.
    I’ve gone to using boiling water and steeping at least 10 minutes with the pot covered. Then stir leaves for a bit before pouring. Results in more egcg and other catechins.

    https://www.teaguardian.com/tea-health/polyphenols-not-all-teas-are-created-equal/

    I did check with NIH articles and this info is correct.

    1. Marilyn,

      That is interesting.

      Is the tea strong that way?

      When I was in college, I drank a lot of herbal teas and I would leave the teabag in the cup and add more water, but that is different.

      1. I switched to loose leaf but those I would often end up with a weak cup of tea.

        I could do well for some reason with some English Breakfast teas, but I probably started drinking too quickly for some of them.

  13. I meant to give Dr. Greger a round of applause for his B-12 webinar.

    It helped me understand the acne, lung cancer, bone issues, the whole algae issues and it gave me a brand of toothpaste to try.

    I didn’t ask questions this time but AFTER it was too late, my questions have percolated up.

    Mentally, I blipped over why did the smaller dosage suddenly work?. And I blipped over, so all of these pills I have swallowed for the past two years may all have done nothing at all? Is that what that graph said?

    I was very happy with the nutritional yeast and toothpaste versions of things. But don’t know how to translate that for older people.

    Two teaspoons of nutritional yeast and brush my teeth twice?

    Can I leave my mushrooms out in the sun and have those absorb some UV or do they have to be still growing?

    Honestly, I was busy and couldn’t ask questions and I usually ask 4 or 5 in a webinar and you answer all of them. (I HOPE that means I ask ones that everybody else asks versus me not getting things as well as they do.)

    1. I genuinely didn’t understand why we don’t need as much now.

      But I did chew my B-12 as a test to see if I could stand it as a chewable and it was not bad.

      (It says prolonged-release but I am hoping that chewing it gets rid of the time delay properties.)

  14. Okay, going back to the older people, they stay at 1000, even if they switch to chewing their B-12?

    It doesn’t suddenly super-size the pill somehow?

    1. And with the toothpaste, is that something you have to use a consistent amount and brush for 2 minutes or you won’t get it?

      1. I’ve mentioned this a few times around here since I did miss the webinar, but Ill try again. Cyano or Mehthyl cobalomine and why? IS my under tongue spray wrong to get and use?

        I mentioned it to my GP and he said re; cyano vs. Methyl that one or the other (I cant remember which) is animal derivitive, the other is “synthetic”.

        Any mention about this on the webinar?

        1. jazzBass,

          Methyl is less shelf stable and in a study of vegans, it didn’t always work.

          I have had it fail twice and other people on here have had the same issue.

        2. Cyano is synthetic but in tests it is the one that worked best.

          The exception is if you have serious kidney problems. Then you should do Methyl but it is light and heat sensitive so watch out. That is because it is harder to break down the Cyano into the Methyl with bad kidneys.

    1. Thanks YR but, clearly, that is an opinion by somebody who doesn’t understand what the evidence actually is or what it means.

      Observational studies don’t prove anything. For one thing, observational studies are notoriously subject to confounding by uncontrolled variables.. Note that at least one other observational hydroxychloroquine (HC) study has found

      “Rates of death in the HC, HC+AZ, and no HC groups were 27.8%, 22.1%, 11.4%, respectively,” Jayakrishna Ambati, MD, and colleagues wrote. “Rates of ventilation in the HC, HC+AZ, and no HC groups were 13.3%, 6.9%, 14.1%, respectively.”
      https://www.physiciansweekly.com/covid-19-va-study-points-to-increased-mortality-with-hydroxychloroquine/

      Nor do observational studies ‘trump’ the results of well-designed and well-conducted randomised controlled trials (RCTs). At least one indicates that hydroxychloroquine is useless as a prophylactic
      https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638

      and we still await the results of good quality RCTs regarding HC’s use as a treatment option. The jury is still out at this stage

      Whatever else Pres Trump may be good at, I’d be very wary of taking medical advice from him. I’m even more wary of taking advice from partisan websites run by people who have little or no understanding of the issues they make confident assertions about. Ditto for YouTube videos by assorted nitwits.

      I’d stick with the advice from the WHO, CDC and FDA, other credible health authorities and major universities. Since I have no desire to put myself forward for a posthumous Darwin award and life is short enough as it is, I personally also avoid listening to politically-motivated, opinionated know-it-alls with websites and YouTube videos expressing strong ‘alternative’ views about about covid-19 treatments and prevention protocols.

        1. Thank you YR.

          Being from the UK originally, I will offer you the venerable two-finger salute in return for your kind gesture.

      1. Fumbles, regarding your comment “I personally also avoid listening to politically-motivated, opinionated know-it-alls …” and your affinity for government organizations like the WHO, CDC, and FDA.

        Has it ever occurred to you that those organizations could also have political biases and members whose careers depend on saying the “right” things?

        If you lived in Stalinist Russia in the early 1900’s and later in the Soviet Union, would you put a lot of faith in the truthfulness of information found in the government news source “Pravda”? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravda

        As individuals, shouldn’t we all be looking at a variety of sources and trying to piece together the big picture … follow the money and power, so they say.

        Something to think about.

            1. Happy 4th of July to all of you, too.

              I am going to see if the infrared is helping my brain.

              I bought ingredients to make a 5-page casserole.

              Tomorrow, my family is doing an outdoor picnic.

              I haven’t had to make anything to take anywhere since Christmas and cooking for family gatherings is when my brain damage shows up the most. So this will be a test for me.

              I always have a back up simple thing to throw in the microwave for when I fail and that happens when I have more than 3 appliances to use and this is a 4 appliance dish.

              As always, I will start tonight and I may fail by noon tomorrow, but I will try to continue to have a good attitude about it.

        1. My understanding is that the WHO, European health authorities, UK health authorities, US health authorities, other national health authorities, leading universities worldwide, professional medical associations and scientific bodies etc etc have all come up with pretty much the same assessments and guidance because that is what the available scientific evidence points to.

          However, if you guys prefer to believe that they have all deliberately got it wrong for completely unfathomable reasons and a bunch of highly opinionated people who understand little about either science or medicine, have got it right, then that’s your privilege. Personally, I think you’d either have to be away with the fairies or off your meds to believe such things. But perhaps I just lack imagination. It’s still worth briefly pointing out some of the obvious flaws in such claims though. It might help.some people.

          1. If “Big Science” stands to back it up, you never question anything, Fumbles? If any of your revered organizations contain an alphabet, they are to be bowed to, and the opinions of all others are to be eschewed? Do you donate to The Red Cross? ( Why do I ask, you wonder.)

            https://www.globalresearch.ca/world-health-organization-deserves-distrust/5712347

            https://listverse.com/2018/08/02/10-dark-conspiracy-theories-that-actually-turned-out-to-be-true/

            (I’ll bet you also feel Planet Earth is the only one in the universe with any life on it. :-)

            1. YR

              The point about science is that it questions everything including itself.

              However, being open-minded doesn’t mean the same thing as being credulous. Scientific evidence that the Earth is not flat is so overwhelming that I don’t take claims that it is flat, seriously. People making such claims would have to present extraordinary evidence for their ideas to be taken seriously.

              The FDA was open-minded enough about hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to authorise their emergency use to treat covid-19. They only revoked that approval once serious safety concerns about those drugs emerged. Note that the FDA and other US authorities are still supporting clinical trials of these drugs in covid-19. There is or at least was a US national stockpile of the drug. That seems pretty open minded to me.
              https://www.fda.gov/media/138946/download

              That website that you linked which asserted that a single observational study ‘proved’ Pres Trump’s statement that hydroxychloroquine was an effective treatment for covid 19, contained no ‘ifs’, ‘ands’ or ‘buts’. As for your list of alleged conspiracy theories that proved true, it’s an obvious example of using a sledgehammer to bang a square peg into a round hole. These were actual secret defence projects about which there were no conspiracy theories at the time. Not that I recall anyway. It’s just that the information about these secret military projects came out later. does that make them, the Manhattan Project and secret US aircraft projects like the SR-71 and F117. conspiracy theories?

              In any case, there are conspiracy theories and conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories for which no evidence is cited and which require the active collaboration of the US, China, the WHO, academic institutions worldwide and (oooh) Bill Gates, but which appear to have no logical purpose, don’t deserve to be taken seriously. And accepting pronouncements on medical and scientific issues by strongly partisan political commentators, which are not supported by or are contradicted by the available scientific evidence isn’t being open-minded. I can think of a number of terms to describe such an attitude but ‘open-minded’ wouldn’t be one of them.

              Also, the fact that you seriously cite ‘Global Research’ to support your arguments speaks volumes

              ‘Globalresearch is an “anti-Western” website that can’t distinguish between serious analysis and discreditable junk — and so publishes both. It’s basically the moonbat equivalent to Infowars or WND.’
              https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch

              1. Fumbs, as you say, we believe that an industry like science or medicine questions everything, and itself, and I presume you are throwing in WHO, CDC etc in that camp.

                However, it is unfortunate that not all scientists and experts and doctors question everything – or even themselves. Money, interest and career get in the way, as does the need to be validated through publishing and quite frankly,but indeed not always, a bit of a savior complex as well. At that point the sometimes unwitting scientist or “expert” or medical doctor defensively assumes the position of confidence and knowledge, since they are being looked at by blindly unquestioning conferences and patients as the “expert”.

                Lets not forget personality itself. For instance one person’s achievement of fame or money or notoriety, even on a small scale, may not be handled well, or even at all. Many an “expert” has let things go to his or her head – with a fall from grace through plagiarism, betrayal, theft, espionage, sex, or stupidity.

                These are scientists, and doctors we’re talking about. Are you a scientist or doctor, Fumbles?

                With these attendant forces in play, need one (remember, scientists question everything) work hard to understand how easy it is to break the facade of integrity?

                Better not to call others nuts for opposing views maybe?

                I figured I would also chime in on this that you mentioned:
                “Nobody doubts that the tobacco industry withheld evidence, destroyed evidence, misrepresented evidence and paid doctors to promote their products. …Is that a conspiracy? ”

                Well yes of course it is.

                Finally since you are a Brit apparently, and to those well wishers of Happy 4th of July, I had to mention here that on July 4th 1776 the day we recognize as independence day, having wrested independence from British tyranny, we were also silently marking on our white calendars, our first 250 years of slavery.

                British tyranny constituted several types, but one of which was the tyranny against free speech and alternative thought, which would usually be met with an arrogant, self-assured discrediting scoff and a flogging, or worse…

                1. JazzBass

                  You must be pretty desperate for credible arguments for your campaign to legitimise any and all conspiracy theories if you are stooping to having a dig at me for being British.

                  That said, your account of events sounds like the Mickey Mouse version of history. Calling the behaviour of the British Crown in its North American colonies tyrannical is certainly a good way of legitimising the insurrection. If I recall correctly though, pretty much all colonies had their own legislatures. Compared to the French, Spanish and Portuguese colonies of that era, describing the British North American colonies as tyrannies seems a bit of a stretch. Also, British people in North America conspiring with Britain’s traditional enemies – the Spanish and French empires – to fight a war of secession can be described in a number of ways. I suspect that you wouldn’t find all of them comforting..

                  When I see vitriolic comments like yours online, they strike me more as self-serfving propaganda than real nuanced history. Come to that, I’m also always reminded of an amusing quip from an English writer made some 400 years ago

                  “Treason doth never prosper: what ’s the reason?
                  Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”

                  That said, re-fighting old battles is pretty pointless.

          2. Fumbles, No one is advocating believing fake science or random people on the Internet trying to make a fast buck. But as a counterexample to your unwavering faith in the truthfulness of the “Heath Authorities”, we need go no further than this NutritionFacts.org website!

            Dr Greger has repeated pointed out how the government and medical authorities pushed the idea that smoking cigarettes was perfectly healthy until recently in the 1970’s when brave independent doctors kept showing the evidence that smoking causes lung diseases. (Back then these independent doctors were called “conspiracy theorists” ;-)

            Even more recently, we have Dr Greger pointing out how the government in coordination with the dairy industry has been telling us how great dairy is for our health. Many honest doctors like Dr Greger, Dr T. Colin Campbell, Dr McDougall, Dr Klaper, Dr Fuhrman, etc. are the brave souls countering the “Health Authorities” with real evidence that dairy is much less healthy than plant foods and can even lead to cancer growth!

            https://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/05/11/how-the-government-dairy-industry-tricked-us-into-thinking-we-need-milk-video/

                1. Darwin, there’s NOTHING that makes Fumbles feel guilty. He came up with some flimsy excuse the last time I teased him about it.

                  1. YR

                    It’s called being honest, I have never claimed to be perfect. Nor do I intend to blow my brains out because I eat ice cream 3 or 4 times a year. For that matter, attacking people for being less than perfect isn’t always helpful. ‘Fat shaming’ is politically incorrect but ‘diet shaming’ is OK then? Not that it bothers me, I’m just curious about your justification/motives.

                    While I don’t claim to be perfect, i do claim to strive for rationality. That’s something you might try to do sometime instead of posting links to sites that appear mostly to be run by loonies (not all of whom are Canadians).

                    1. ‘Fat shaming’ is politically incorrect but ‘diet shaming’ is OK then? Not that it bothers me, I’m just curious about your justification/motives.”
                      – – – – – –

                      You’re curious, are you? Well, try this for size: When the rare brave soul dares to offer (admit) that he eats, for instance, 100% grass-fed beef once or twice a week, you sally forth with at least a dozen reasons why such dreck will kill not only the cow, the environment, but also himself. The poster, humiliated, then slinks off into the sunset and never comments here again. And of course if he also gave an anecdote or two, off with his head! It must be “scientific-evidenced” only. Talk about “diet shaming!

                      https://theconversation.com/theres-a-conspiracy-theory-that-the-cia-invented-the-term-conspiracy-theory-heres-why-132117

                    2. YR

                      Thanks for responding. Your comment is a prime example of why it is so important to take off the tinfoil hat occasionally and replace it with the thinking cap.

                      If you are truly unable to understand the difference between someone advocating eating red meat and claiming that it is healthy, and someone admitting that he eats ice cream occasionally even though he knows it is unhealthy, then that may explain why you hold the beliefs you do.

            1. That’s chalk and cheese.

              The funding of ‘research’ by the tobacco and food industries is on the public record. So are their registered lobbyists, campaign donations and the like. Not to mention all the legislation which benefits the meat, dairy etc industries. There are also huge employment and economic consequences arising from potential changes to food production arrangements. All of that constitutes serious evidence …. what they used to call Method, Motivation and Opportunity in old-time detective shows. It shouldn’t be lumped together with imaginative speculation made without any supporting evidence.

              Despite my long-running disagreements with Pete Granger on the issue, I acknowledge that the evidence that dairy is less healthful than plant foods is heavily context dependent and is influenced by the absolute and relative amounts of dairy eaten. Is low fat dairy more unhealthy than refined carbs? I don’t think we know. Are small amounts in the context of an unsupplemented WFPB diet unhealthful? After all, it would provide some B12 etc. Again, I don’t think we know.

              I’m aware that Campbell pointed to rat experiments that dairy casein fed to rats fed carcinogenic toxins could turn cancer on and off. But there’s no evidence I am aware of that casein consumption in humans causes cancer. Some years ago. i spent quite some time checking out the casein cancer connection in humans. All I found was an association with advanced prostate cancer. Earlier, this year though, a study was published showing an association between breast cancer risk and milk consumption.

              The point I am trying to make is that evidence for the superiority of 100% vegetarian diets to diets including some dairy is weak or non-existent. Even that for whole food plant diets is weak or non-existent. There is a lot of evidence pointing in that direction but it is not absolute. Alleging that this is the result of some vast global conspiracy that involves the WHO, US, Russia, China, Iran, North Korea. industry and academia is an implausible explanation of the situation though. it’s more likely the result of history, culture, powerful financial vested interests and a lack of extensive relevant good quality research.

              And, of course, there is my personal favourite ………. ‘never ascribe to malice, that which can adequately be explained by stupidity’.

              1. PS

                I am not aware that scientists and doctors back in the ’70s who highlighted the evidence that smoking was harmful, were called ‘conspiracy theorists’ (possibly by the tobacco industry I suppose). Do you have any evidence that they were?

                In any case, even if one conspiracy theory proved correct it wouldn’t prove that all of them were rational beliefs let alone factually correct.

                Nobody doubts that the tobacco industry withheld evidence, destroyed evidence, misrepresented evidence and paid doctors to promote their products. Is that a conspiracy?

                Don’t you need different groups/entities working cooperatively and knowingly to hide the truth, to constitute an actual conspiracy? I seriously doubt whether national health authorities and academic institutions around the world actively conspired with the tobacco industry industry to hide the truth.

                Secret projects don’t necessarily constitute conspiracies either nor do industries aggressively promoting their own interests. I’d suggest that you need at least two separate actors working together to knowingly hide or distort the truth to constitute a conspiracy. And some actual evidence or at least plausible logic to lend credibility to an accusation.

                1. My my, we really got you to use your ol’ noggin now, didn’t we! You put a lot of work into your replies. And you were able to use some of your favorite words….like plausible, credulous, evidence, rational, etc.

                  For that, we did you a service. And it’s okay, Fumbles. You can eat your ice cream. :-)

                  1. I’ve noticed that you have this amazing knack for being able to point out the websites, etc. that contain “disinformation” — that is to say, all of those that people here suggest. Only Fumbles is able to declare which ones are worth believing. Wow.

                    1. and you YR have an unerring knack for providing links to websites run by cranks. They are presumably the only ones that make claims that you find congenial.

                  2. YR, Yes, Fumbles was really busy coming up with an elaborate response! He must really like that big bowl of ice cream ;-)

                    1. Has it ever occurred to you two that the responses I offered to your claims are just so obvious to most people that they don’t require lengthy or deep thought? And that they are why most people don’t fall prey to nutty conspiracy theories?

                    2. Fumbles, may I offer you a quote:

                      ” At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas of which it is assumed that all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to say this, that or the other, but it is called a ‘conspiracy theory’ to say it… Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with surprising effectiveness. A genuinely unfashionable opinion is almost never given a fair hearing, either in the popular press or in the high-brow periodicals.”

                      George Orwell

                    3. Thanks Darwin.

                      I would suggest that there is a difference between fashionable values, political and religious orthodoxies and matters of scientific fact. Or at least, matters that can usefully be informed by evidence and experiment, and which are not just mere matters of opinion.

                      May I offer you a quote in return?. This one is sometimes called Hitchen’s razor

                      ‘”What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”

                      I would add that assertions made with a thimbleful of evidence but which are refuted by a barn-full of evidence can also be dismissed in fairly short order

                2. A secret project is not a conspiracy per se. However if the project harms people for profit, and can only be accomplished through associations of shared partnership and greed, then yes, its a conspiracy, even if it is legal.

                  The government and now corporations have a term for this attendant harm perpetrated through their actions. It is such a real thing that they came up with a word for it, to make it seem innocuous: externalities.

                  Its like the Tobacco companies defending for years their position by calling it a free market and so people are at will to not purchase these things. But the secret project was that it was addictive, and the power of television and advertising to mold our thinking was at play. So hundreds of thousands got sick and died, but those were just externalities.

                  Like teflon coatings, asbestos,lead, yada yada….

                  1. I wouldn’t argue with you about that JazzBass.

                    Where I disagree with you, Darwin and YR is about where we draw the line between accepting and ignoring accusations of conspiracy. I like to see some real evidence and a credible explanation of the supposed ‘method, motivation and opportunity’ instead of just automatically accepting any and all claims as worthy of serious consideration.

                    1. “I like to see some real evidence and a credible explanation”
                      – – – – – – –

                      Fumbles, but your “real evidence is not necessarily that of another. “And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.”

                      https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/06/05/dance-insane/

                      People can’t even agree who originated the saying — as you can see down at the bottom in the comment section.

                      Okay, red meat was a poor choice. I don’t eat it, myself, although I don’t “scold” others for doing so…like some people do. Live and let live, I say. I could have said fish, but there are always reasons not to eat fish too, aren’t there? (And I like cheese too.)

                      As for your your ice cream, why don’t you think of how cruel the cows are being treated and etc. etc. like other non-dairy eaters do? For that, you excuse yourself….you pick and choose. Only for others do you play the role of Big Stern Daddy. :-)

                    2. Good comment, YR. It ultimately comes down to: “Who decides what is credible evidence?” When a society relies on a “Central Authority” to determine which scientific studies are valid and which are not, that’s when the corruption starts to set in.

                      As an example, consider the recent confession of a Climate Change advocate, Michael Shellenberger:

                      Quote from the article:

                      “On behalf of environmentalists everywhere, I would like to formally apologize for the climate scare we created over the last 30 years. Climate change is happening. It’s just not the end of the world. It’s not even our most serious environmental problem.

                      I may seem like a strange person to be saying all of this. I have been a climate activist for 20 years and an environmentalist for 30.

                      But as an energy expert asked by Congress to provide objective expert testimony, and invited by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) to serve as Expert Reviewer of its next Assessment Report, I feel an obligation to apologize for how badly we environmentalists have misled the public.

                      Here are some facts few people know:

                      – Humans are not causing a “sixth mass extinction”

                      – The Amazon is not “the lungs of the world”

                      – Climate change is not making natural disasters worse

                      – Fires have declined 25% around the world since 2003

                      – The amount of land we use for meat — humankind’s biggest use of land — has declined by an area nearly as large as Alaska

                      – The build-up of wood fuel and more houses near forests, not climate change, explain why there are more, and more dangerous, fires in Australia and California

                      – Carbon emissions are declining in most rich nations and have been declining in Britain, Germany, and France since the mid-1970s

                      – Netherlands became rich not poor while adapting to life below sea level

                      – We produce 25% more food than we need and food surpluses will continue to rise as the world gets hotter

                      – Habitat loss and the direct killing of wild animals are bigger threats to species than climate change

                      – Wood fuel is far worse for people and wildlife than fossil fuels

                      – Preventing future pandemics requires more not less “industrial” agriculture

                      I know that the above facts will sound like “climate denialism” to many people. But that just shows the power of climate alarmism.”

                    3. YR

                      You are either being deliberately perverse now or you genuinely don’t understand the difference..

                      I don’t scold people for eating red meat. I challenge those people who post comments that claim that it is healthy, to present evidence that it is. Additionally I post evidence that indicates that it isn’t (at least in the context of a calorifically and nutritionally adequate diet). Since I don’t advocate eating ice cream or claim that it is healthy, your comparison is a strange one.

                      You seem to think that someone’s opinion carries just as much weight as a boxcar of scientific evidence. I don’t.

  15. Very incomplete data. Should include hydrogen peroxide followed by vinegar, Iodophor ( used by brewers, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodophor ), rubbing alcohol, and of course soap and water. As well as hydrogen peroxide & vinegar used separately. These are all readily available. Also the stronger ‘food grade peroxide’ and stronger ‘horticultural vinegar’. Why bother with making a video, when these common alternatives are ignored?

  16. Very incomplete data. Should include dtat on effectiveness of: 1) hydrogen peroxide followed by vinegar, 2) Iodophor ( used by brewers, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodophor ), 3) rubbing alcohol, and of course 4) soap and water. As well as 5 & 6) hydrogen peroxide & vinegar used separately. These are all readily available. And also the stronger ‘food grade peroxide’ 7), and stronger ‘horticultural vinegar’ 8). Why bother with making a video, when these common well known alternatives are ignored?

    1. David,

      Dr Greger’s videos are based on studies and the studies obviously didn’t include your options.

      Without a study, he isn’t going to include it.

  17. Also, I would add that way more people just use tea tree oil or just use simple vinegar than use what you think is common.

    I have watched so many vinegar cleaning videos, plus read lots of Alexa answers and studied Dr Annie’s experiment and not one of them mentioned what you are talking about and I was studying cleaning for the first two months of the pandemic, plus a few months last fall.

    I am not saying that you are wrong but I have also never seen yours in any type of store nor has Amazon showed it to me.

    I suppose because I don’t drink and don’t brew anything.

  18. As far as the hydrogen peroxide, Dr Annie has good luck with it if she leaves it on a surface for a while.

    It didn’t work for disinfecting sponges. I think it was sponges.

    But leaving it all night on her kitchen sink, it kicked butt.

    Failed miserably on the sponges and when immediately rinsed off showed that it wasn’t foolproof and she wasn’t testing for more than one or two things.

  19. I realize this is off topic, but I really need some guidance (Thea / Toxins still here?). Here’s my inquiry. Sorry for the length.

    Dear Dr Greger:

    I’m writing today in need of some advice. I know that you are extremely busy, and I appreciate all that you have done for the general public over the years. Having used your site for nearly the past decade as a jumping off point for further research analyses, I owe you a deep level of gratitude and sincere appreciation. Your careful perusal of the scientific journals and subsequent reporting has helped not only myself but literally millions across the globe.

    After a few years of nearly daily nutritionfacts.org browsing and becoming WFPB, I took Dr Caldwell B Esselstyn’s online course in nutrition and have tried to impart this knowledge to as many that would engage in a nuanced and as bias free conversation as possible. In this seemingly unending binary and dogmatic rotation of fad diets that pervades the air waves, this can be a challenge. I admire your stamina and dedication.

    That said, I’m writing on behalf of my mother today. After a decade and a half of attempting to nail down the cause of her issues, the Mayo Clinic has finally come up with an answer: Primary Biliary Cholangitis.

    Last night, I scoured pubmed and your site for some insight. Most of the studies that I looked up have pay walls for full text versions, and I certainly don’t have the resources to purchase them all. I also searched your site to no avail. I realize the Mayo Clinic certainly know what they are doing, however I’d like to know your opinion as to how a WFPB diet could affect the outcome. She has been diagnosed as a stage 2+, is 77 years old, has high blood pressure and hypothyroidism. My understanding is that this condition is an autoimmune response, thus I was hoping you’d have some advice nutritionally as well.

    I will CC Dr Neal Barnard’s clinic as well with hopes for a consult, but my mother’s state of residence is not on his list of accepted states. Thus, if you know of any scientific literature that would support her switching to a whole food plant based diet, I would certainly appreciate the help. She’s taken my advice in the past, as she knows my approach to nutrition is serious and dedicated; however, she has had the same issues many of us do in dropping dairy and other animal-based foods.

    I have resided in Indonesia for the past 22 years, have been WFPB for almost a decade, exercise daily, am 51 years old, no serious illness, can’t remember the last time I had a prescription drug and very healthy and fit. I’m considering moving back to Wisconsin for the purpose of a live liver donor screening for her. She is O-positive and I am O-negative. I’ve read that the Rh factor is not an issue.

    I realize that any specific medical advice should really only be communicated after a proper consult, so I don’t expect that. Just your honest opinion with the weight of your knowledge and possibly some links or pdfs to studies that I could guide her through.

    Thank you so much for your time and effort.

    Best Regards,

    Michael Lederer

  20. I am 1/3 of the way through my recipe but I broke my food processor 5 seconds in.

    Just pushed the button to see if it worked and it destroyed the container.

    My knife works but I seriously destroyed my food processor just turning it on.

    1. Thanks, Barb!

      I have to find easier recipes.

      I am 2/3rds of the way through, but it genuinely takes me a whole weekend to make a side dish.

      I let my sister-in-law do the gatherings all of the time and people might think that I am trying to get out of it or that I am capitalizing on their amazing yard set up and the fact that they have 30 chairs, but by the end of the weekend, I will have six hours of cleaning up and will have spent hundreds of dollars and may not succeed at the dish, though it looks like I am succeeding so far.

      But the dish got more expensive if I have to buy a new food processor container.

      I had so many other things I was supposed to be doing that, even though I am still smiling, I can almost feel tears in the back of my eyes.

      My brain is so disorganized and I clearly don’t know how to fix it.

      I still love my infrared and feel like it might help.

      I really need to start succeeding at these dishes.

  21. To my way of thinking Deb, you need only bring a smile to any event. Don’t sweat it. If you need recipes anytime, we can all help you find simpler ones that are popular at gatherings. Enjoy your family time!

    P.S. I did have infrared treatments once on serious wounds and it was a wonder worker. I have almost no scars.

    1. YR, Oh, don’t worry, they will change it again and again. Otherwise, people will realize they are not needed and they’ll be out of a job!

  22. I looked tonight and there are 40 states with an R Naught above 1 with 5 on the bubble.

    So some states have started deciding to not allow asymptomatic people to be tested.

    We don’t want to know.

    That is too bad because people want to know if they test positive so that they don’t spread it to their loved ones.

    Plus, it helps us understand the virus better.

    When the news gets bad, states try to hide it.

    I finished my dish and went to the cookout and had a very nice time.

    I did leave out a few things, but nobody knew it, except me.

    YR,

    I am a Christian and do try to not speak negativity over my life.

    I am also trying to not be in denial about where I am in this brain process.

    I don’t always know how to balance that.

    1. Deb, being a “Christian” or not being a Christian should have nothing to do with it. But I certainly won’t go into that subject.

  23. I had a victory today.

    My sister-in-law said that she knows that she has to feed my brother vegetables because of his only having one kidney even though she is on a doctor-assisted high animal product version of Keto. Right now, she is just giving him watermelon with his hotdog, but that is a start and it might open the door. If I ever figure out how to cook better, I might be able to give him meals again. It wipes me out so much though.

  24. I think the frustrating part for me is that if I could really cook or if the processed foods weren’t loaded with sodium, oil, and sugar, I could save my whole family.

    My not succeeding at this process might come at the ultimate cost.

  25. YR,

    I still test 5% brain function in more than one part of my brain. I have worked so hard to improve things and have improved things.

    But if I could cook, I could save my relatives lives and my sister-in-law, right now, would accept any vegetable dishes that my brother would eat and I hate that they are the ones who can cook properly, but she doesn’t like vegetables and my brother only likes grilling.

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