How to Avoid COVID-19

How to Avoid COVID-19
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How long can the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus survive on surfaces like paper?

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

The best way to survive COVID-19 is not to get it in the first place. Governments can only do so much. Preliminary evidence from Japan suggests the cancellation of events, gatherings, and meetings may slow the spread of COVID-19 by as much as 35 percent, but that has not been enough to contain the outbreak. During the unbridled phase of a pandemic, the best thing we can do is shelter in place, staying home to reduce contact with those outside our households as much as possible. It’s something nonessential workers can all do. Put simply, in the American Journal of Emergency Medicine: “Staying home saves lives.” This is how social distancing works. Instead of a scenario like this…you start breaking some of these exponential chains of transmission. So, one person have staying home can have a huge effect.

And you can’t just wait until you hear it’s in your area. I grew up in Wyoming, which months in only had a few hundred confirmed cases in the whole state. But by the time a single death occurs in your community, hundreds or even thousands of cases are likely present. We just haven’t done the testing; so, unless you’re on some remote desert island somewhere—a remote desert island with good internet if you’re watching this—then you should just assume the virus is in your neighborhood, wherever you live.

Those of us who need to leave our homes to provide essential services, from direct care to food delivery, should strive to keep a safe distance from others, and sufficiently sanitize our hands every time we touch a public surface before we touch our mucous membranes––meaning our eyes, or the inside of our nose or mouth. This is good social distancing. This? Not so much. Once the pandemic is more under control, ample testing is in place, and the healthcare system is no longer overrun, these social distancing precautions may start to be relaxed, at least for less vulnerable individuals.

The good news is you can’t infect others if you’re not infected yourself, and you can’t get the virus unless the virus can get to you. The COVID-19 coronavirus is thought to be transmitted from one person to the next via respiratory droplets coughed out by the infected, propelled through the air, and then landing up the nose, in the mouth, or perhaps even on the eyes of a person nearby. As a sign in 1918 put it, “SPIT SPREADS DEATH.” Indirect avenues of spread involve infecting yourself by touching your eyes, nose, or mouth with hands contaminated by a virus-laden object or surface, such as rubbing your eyes, or picking your nose after shaking someone’s hand, or touching a public surface like an elevator button, handrail, gas pump, or toilet handle. The levels of virus swarming in the snot of COVID-19 sufferers can reach close to a million per drop, which explains how easy it is for them to so thoroughly contaminate their surrounding environment.

The presence of the COVID-19 coronavirus in stool samples for up to weeks after infection— in fact, sometimes you can have a negative throat swab, but a positive anal swab––suggests…another way toilets may potentially transmit infection. As you may remember from my why-you-need-to-disinfect-your-toothbrush-with-white-vinegar video, modern flush toilets aerosolize a plume of up to 145,000 droplets of toilet water into the air, which can remain floating around for at least thirty minutes. This may be one of the ways poliovirus is transmitted…. So, “Put a lid on it.” Close the lid before you flush and then, of course, thoroughly wash your hands.

The presence of the coronavirus in feces is also why the Oregon State health authority recommended people press pause on their peach emoji, and why the New York Post asked if coronavirus could be spread through farts, suggesting flatulence may be an aerosol-generating procedure, something I was surprised to see was actually put to the test. “It all started with an enquiry from a nurse.” She wanted to know if she was contaminating the sterile environment of the operating room. Investigators were determined to find out. A colleague was asked to toot onto two petri dishes, either fully clothed or with trousers down. And…only the bare-bottom fart sprouted bacteria, suggesting that clothing acts as a filter. Pants are like a mask for your butt; both for the gut bacteria and the splatter ring they found of skin bacteria thought to be blown from the cheeks by the sheer velocity of it all. Their final conclusion? “Don’t fart naked near food,” or at least within two inches of food. Similar advice was given in the New York Post piece, advising people to throw caution to the…wind. A whole ’nother meaning to silent but deadly.

Coughed virus… may make it more than 2 inches, though, which is why it’s safer to get groceries delivered than to go shopping yourself…. During the SARS outbreak, traces of the virus were not only found on items handled directly by patients (like TV remote controls), and surfaces touched by those who interacted with the patients (like a refrigerator door at a nurses’ station), but also floating in air samples taken from an infected patient’s hospital room, suggesting the possibility of more robust airborne transmission than just coughed droplets. A similar study performed in a COVID-19 patient’s hospital room found the virus on the majority of sampled surfaces, but all of the air samples were negative. Since then, though, we’ve learned differently. Studies performed at the Nebraska Biocontainment Unit and the National Quarantine Unit found the majority of air samples tested positive for traces of the virus—even in the hallways outside of patients’ rooms. However, the researchers were unable to verify if the airborne virus was infectious, given the extremely low concentration: less than a hundred copies per cubic foot of air. Nevertheless, because we know the virus can remain viable for hours when experimentally misted into the air, special care should certainly be taken by healthcare workers during aerosol-generating medical procedures.

How long does the virus last on contaminated surfaces? You may have heard that coronaviruses, like flu viruses, are “enveloped” viruses. Enveloped in what? As coronaviruses, shown here in yellow, bud out of infected cells, shown here in blue, they cloak themselves in the outer layer of our cells. They’re wrapped in a stolen swath of our own cell membranes. That oily coating helps them hide from immune surveillance because it looks like us, but it also makes them susceptible to disinfection and environmental inactivation. Non-enveloped viruses, like polio, can last for weeks outside of the body, whereas enveloped viruses tend to only be able to survive for days. As enveloped viruses go, though, coronaviruses tend to be relatively resistant.

There’s a coronavirus that infects pigs, for example, that can last for a month on nonporous surfaces like metal, plastic, or glass, but, at most, human coronaviruses only make it about a week. On copper and brass, coronaviruses may not be able to survive more than a few minutes at low levels of contamination, and a few hours at higher doses. But different coronaviruses have different environmental stability. The SARS coronavirus lasted more than six days dried on plastic, whereas one of the common cold coronaviruses didn’t even make it three days. The SARS virus… lasts up to four days in water or soil, but survived for just minutes after drying on paper when lightly soiled, or up to a day when heavily contaminated, and less than an hour on cotton cloth. But what about SARS 2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19?

The COVID-19 virus appears to be more stable on paper than the SARS virus, with infectivity extinguished only after twenty-four hours at the same viral load that led to SARS to become inactive after eight hours. The half-life of the COVID-19 virus on steel or plastic is about six hours; so, about 99 percent is gone by forty-eight hours, but it may take as long as 96 hours for all infectivity to disappear.

On cloth, the COVID-19 virus may only last for one day, but on the outer layer of surgical masks it can survive for at least a full week. On printing paper, though, the COVID-19 virus appears to survive for less than three hours.

The virus can only infect you, however, if it can get inside you. Having the virus on your fingers is only a problem if you then inoculate yourself by transferring that virus to your eyes, nose, or mouth. It’s funny when they do experiments for like the common cold to see if transmission is more through the air or through touch; they put people in these crazy arm braces where they can’t bend their elbow, ensuring that they never touch their face.

Having the virus on your fingers is only a problem if you then inoculate yourself by transferring that virus to your eyes, nose, or mouth. It’s not your face in general—touching your forehead, cheek, or chin is presumably no more dangerous than touching your elbow. The virus can’t pass through your skin. The virus can only replicate in live cells, and the outer layer of your skin is covered by protective strata of dead skin cells. To get into your lungs, the virus has to find its way to your mucous membranes, the moist lining of your eyes, nostrils, or mouth. (The reason your nose starts to run when you cry is that tears drain though tiny channels that tunnel through the nasal bone and spill into your nostrils, and viruses in your eye can travel the same route to get to your lungs).

As long as you don’t touch your face, why does it matter if surfaces are contaminated? Because you do touch your face. The oft-repeated twenty-three-times-an-hour statistic is an overestimate, since, of the touches recorded in the cited study on university students, most were just to the skin on the face, but ten touches an hour were to the eyes, nose, or mouth. Adults videotaped in an office-type setting did worse, each touching their nostrils, eyes, or lips an average of nearly sixteen times an hour.

What about doctors? Medical professionals were covertly observed during a grand rounds lecture at a hospital. And… about one out of every three subjects picked their nose at least once.

In family medicine offices, clinicians and staff touched their eyes, nose, or mouth an average of nineteen times in two hours (with a range from 0 to over 100 touches). More concerning in terms of patient safety, however, was the finding that doctors only wash their hands about 30 percent of the times they should—even in intensive care units. And, even when they did manage to wash their hands, it was for an average of less than nine seconds.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Motion graphics by AvoMedia

Image credit: Staff Sgt. Corey Hook via U.S. Air Force photo. Image has been modified.

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

The best way to survive COVID-19 is not to get it in the first place. Governments can only do so much. Preliminary evidence from Japan suggests the cancellation of events, gatherings, and meetings may slow the spread of COVID-19 by as much as 35 percent, but that has not been enough to contain the outbreak. During the unbridled phase of a pandemic, the best thing we can do is shelter in place, staying home to reduce contact with those outside our households as much as possible. It’s something nonessential workers can all do. Put simply, in the American Journal of Emergency Medicine: “Staying home saves lives.” This is how social distancing works. Instead of a scenario like this…you start breaking some of these exponential chains of transmission. So, one person have staying home can have a huge effect.

And you can’t just wait until you hear it’s in your area. I grew up in Wyoming, which months in only had a few hundred confirmed cases in the whole state. But by the time a single death occurs in your community, hundreds or even thousands of cases are likely present. We just haven’t done the testing; so, unless you’re on some remote desert island somewhere—a remote desert island with good internet if you’re watching this—then you should just assume the virus is in your neighborhood, wherever you live.

Those of us who need to leave our homes to provide essential services, from direct care to food delivery, should strive to keep a safe distance from others, and sufficiently sanitize our hands every time we touch a public surface before we touch our mucous membranes––meaning our eyes, or the inside of our nose or mouth. This is good social distancing. This? Not so much. Once the pandemic is more under control, ample testing is in place, and the healthcare system is no longer overrun, these social distancing precautions may start to be relaxed, at least for less vulnerable individuals.

The good news is you can’t infect others if you’re not infected yourself, and you can’t get the virus unless the virus can get to you. The COVID-19 coronavirus is thought to be transmitted from one person to the next via respiratory droplets coughed out by the infected, propelled through the air, and then landing up the nose, in the mouth, or perhaps even on the eyes of a person nearby. As a sign in 1918 put it, “SPIT SPREADS DEATH.” Indirect avenues of spread involve infecting yourself by touching your eyes, nose, or mouth with hands contaminated by a virus-laden object or surface, such as rubbing your eyes, or picking your nose after shaking someone’s hand, or touching a public surface like an elevator button, handrail, gas pump, or toilet handle. The levels of virus swarming in the snot of COVID-19 sufferers can reach close to a million per drop, which explains how easy it is for them to so thoroughly contaminate their surrounding environment.

The presence of the COVID-19 coronavirus in stool samples for up to weeks after infection— in fact, sometimes you can have a negative throat swab, but a positive anal swab––suggests…another way toilets may potentially transmit infection. As you may remember from my why-you-need-to-disinfect-your-toothbrush-with-white-vinegar video, modern flush toilets aerosolize a plume of up to 145,000 droplets of toilet water into the air, which can remain floating around for at least thirty minutes. This may be one of the ways poliovirus is transmitted…. So, “Put a lid on it.” Close the lid before you flush and then, of course, thoroughly wash your hands.

The presence of the coronavirus in feces is also why the Oregon State health authority recommended people press pause on their peach emoji, and why the New York Post asked if coronavirus could be spread through farts, suggesting flatulence may be an aerosol-generating procedure, something I was surprised to see was actually put to the test. “It all started with an enquiry from a nurse.” She wanted to know if she was contaminating the sterile environment of the operating room. Investigators were determined to find out. A colleague was asked to toot onto two petri dishes, either fully clothed or with trousers down. And…only the bare-bottom fart sprouted bacteria, suggesting that clothing acts as a filter. Pants are like a mask for your butt; both for the gut bacteria and the splatter ring they found of skin bacteria thought to be blown from the cheeks by the sheer velocity of it all. Their final conclusion? “Don’t fart naked near food,” or at least within two inches of food. Similar advice was given in the New York Post piece, advising people to throw caution to the…wind. A whole ’nother meaning to silent but deadly.

Coughed virus… may make it more than 2 inches, though, which is why it’s safer to get groceries delivered than to go shopping yourself…. During the SARS outbreak, traces of the virus were not only found on items handled directly by patients (like TV remote controls), and surfaces touched by those who interacted with the patients (like a refrigerator door at a nurses’ station), but also floating in air samples taken from an infected patient’s hospital room, suggesting the possibility of more robust airborne transmission than just coughed droplets. A similar study performed in a COVID-19 patient’s hospital room found the virus on the majority of sampled surfaces, but all of the air samples were negative. Since then, though, we’ve learned differently. Studies performed at the Nebraska Biocontainment Unit and the National Quarantine Unit found the majority of air samples tested positive for traces of the virus—even in the hallways outside of patients’ rooms. However, the researchers were unable to verify if the airborne virus was infectious, given the extremely low concentration: less than a hundred copies per cubic foot of air. Nevertheless, because we know the virus can remain viable for hours when experimentally misted into the air, special care should certainly be taken by healthcare workers during aerosol-generating medical procedures.

How long does the virus last on contaminated surfaces? You may have heard that coronaviruses, like flu viruses, are “enveloped” viruses. Enveloped in what? As coronaviruses, shown here in yellow, bud out of infected cells, shown here in blue, they cloak themselves in the outer layer of our cells. They’re wrapped in a stolen swath of our own cell membranes. That oily coating helps them hide from immune surveillance because it looks like us, but it also makes them susceptible to disinfection and environmental inactivation. Non-enveloped viruses, like polio, can last for weeks outside of the body, whereas enveloped viruses tend to only be able to survive for days. As enveloped viruses go, though, coronaviruses tend to be relatively resistant.

There’s a coronavirus that infects pigs, for example, that can last for a month on nonporous surfaces like metal, plastic, or glass, but, at most, human coronaviruses only make it about a week. On copper and brass, coronaviruses may not be able to survive more than a few minutes at low levels of contamination, and a few hours at higher doses. But different coronaviruses have different environmental stability. The SARS coronavirus lasted more than six days dried on plastic, whereas one of the common cold coronaviruses didn’t even make it three days. The SARS virus… lasts up to four days in water or soil, but survived for just minutes after drying on paper when lightly soiled, or up to a day when heavily contaminated, and less than an hour on cotton cloth. But what about SARS 2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19?

The COVID-19 virus appears to be more stable on paper than the SARS virus, with infectivity extinguished only after twenty-four hours at the same viral load that led to SARS to become inactive after eight hours. The half-life of the COVID-19 virus on steel or plastic is about six hours; so, about 99 percent is gone by forty-eight hours, but it may take as long as 96 hours for all infectivity to disappear.

On cloth, the COVID-19 virus may only last for one day, but on the outer layer of surgical masks it can survive for at least a full week. On printing paper, though, the COVID-19 virus appears to survive for less than three hours.

The virus can only infect you, however, if it can get inside you. Having the virus on your fingers is only a problem if you then inoculate yourself by transferring that virus to your eyes, nose, or mouth. It’s funny when they do experiments for like the common cold to see if transmission is more through the air or through touch; they put people in these crazy arm braces where they can’t bend their elbow, ensuring that they never touch their face.

Having the virus on your fingers is only a problem if you then inoculate yourself by transferring that virus to your eyes, nose, or mouth. It’s not your face in general—touching your forehead, cheek, or chin is presumably no more dangerous than touching your elbow. The virus can’t pass through your skin. The virus can only replicate in live cells, and the outer layer of your skin is covered by protective strata of dead skin cells. To get into your lungs, the virus has to find its way to your mucous membranes, the moist lining of your eyes, nostrils, or mouth. (The reason your nose starts to run when you cry is that tears drain though tiny channels that tunnel through the nasal bone and spill into your nostrils, and viruses in your eye can travel the same route to get to your lungs).

As long as you don’t touch your face, why does it matter if surfaces are contaminated? Because you do touch your face. The oft-repeated twenty-three-times-an-hour statistic is an overestimate, since, of the touches recorded in the cited study on university students, most were just to the skin on the face, but ten touches an hour were to the eyes, nose, or mouth. Adults videotaped in an office-type setting did worse, each touching their nostrils, eyes, or lips an average of nearly sixteen times an hour.

What about doctors? Medical professionals were covertly observed during a grand rounds lecture at a hospital. And… about one out of every three subjects picked their nose at least once.

In family medicine offices, clinicians and staff touched their eyes, nose, or mouth an average of nineteen times in two hours (with a range from 0 to over 100 touches). More concerning in terms of patient safety, however, was the finding that doctors only wash their hands about 30 percent of the times they should—even in intensive care units. And, even when they did manage to wash their hands, it was for an average of less than nine seconds.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Motion graphics by AvoMedia

Image credit: Staff Sgt. Corey Hook via U.S. Air Force photo. Image has been modified.

177 responses to “How to Avoid COVID-19

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  1. Wow, there is a lot of information in here.

    I thought (KNOW) I was participating in the Webinar and watched this and remember some parts but somehow I missed things like it lasting a full week on surgical masks.

    In the beginning of the pandemic, a lot of medical people were wearing surgical masks and were being asked to keep them in a bag. It would have been contaminated the whole time. Probably just getting worse and worse every day.

    I wondered what was different so I looked up the materials used to make them and they listed polypropylene, polystyrene, polycarbonate, polyethylene, or polyester. The main point is that they use a non-woven fabric and make it with what they call meltblown technology so that it has better bacteria filtration.

    The tests they put it through were interesting.

    In one they shoot an aerosol with staphylococcus aureus bacteria at the mask at 28.3 liters per minute. Then, they do something called the latex particle challenge, where they spray an aerosol of polystyrene microspheres at it. Then, they splash it with simulated blood. And they test breathability by measuring the air pressure on both sides of the mask. Then, they set it on fire.

    I know a lot of people who would like to have those testing jobs.

    Anyway, I don’t think using the same surgical mask for a week sounds very safe.

  2. Maybe I am misunderstanding the info, but it seems to me it isn’t lining up. My concern is with the food supply, particularly fresh food which would appear to me to be a real gamble at the very least. You are saying the virus can remain in tact through the intestinal tract and float in the air for another few hours but isn’t a hazard sitting on that pile of broccoli at the store? Something is amiss.

    1. Barb,

      I agree with you, though whenever I look it up, they say it is unlikely to spread through food.

      I did see a quote by David Hamer, a professor at Boston University School of Public Health who said that although there is no evidence that Covid-19 can be transmitted through food, that it couldn’t be ruled out and more research is needed.

      But the FDA and most experts say that it is unlikely.

      But not impossible.

      1. The Food and Agriculture Organisation of the UN and the World Health Organisation has said that it is highly unlikely that people can contract Covid-19 from food or food packaging.

        But everybody acknowledges that there haven’t been any real studies on it.

        China did try to blame imported foods for their recent outbreak but it wasn’t clear whether it was the food or the person who was preparing the food.

        1. One of the tricky parts is that they do believe that people can get it if an animal was infected with COVID-19 and is slaughtered, but if a meat-packing plant worker with COVID-19 sneezes on the meat, it becomes unchartered territory.

          I would think the fact it might have been 1000 meat-packing plant workers sneezing and not blowing their noses and then the meat was put in refrigeration and that causes COVID-19 to last longer.

          I haven’t watched Dr. Barnard’s answer about it yet, he is on my “watch later” list but once we determine that it is possible to get it from meat, then it becomes is it also possible to get it from the fruit packing plant workers. Because if I remember right, there were fruit-packing plant workers who were infected. If the fruit goes from refrigerator to refrigerator with 100% chance that it was exposed, does that introduce a different logic?

          1. UnCHARTED territory.
            Not unchartered.
            Unexplored, unknown territory would not have charts drawn yet.

        2. Quoting the WHO as an informed organisation, is by default dubious at the very least. The WHO praised China, was ridiculously late in declaring what was already so, ie a Pandemic and tries to cover its tracks and takes shed loads of money from Bill Gates. If you want to be taken seriously, don’t quote a group run by an ex terrorist.

          1. Please don’t post idiotic comments like that here. There are plenty of other sites that pander to that sort of thing.

            China may well have been slow off the mark in recognising and addressing the problem but they got the job done. Whether the WHO was slow in recognising the outbreak as a pandemic is highly debatable. The US on the other hand only has one-third the population of China but it has experienced far more deaths and still doesn’t have its problem under control. Blaming its self-inflicted problems on the WHO’s and Chinese Government’s responses makes no sense.

            1. Fumbles, I find YOUR own post an idiotic comment, and prefer you yourself don’t post it here.

              But neither you nor I own it this site.

              Hey Fumbles: Stop bullying people. Its not your place to say whats here, whats not here. Leave them bro bro. 90%of what he said was actually true, though Im not sure what was meant by ex-terrorist unless its Gates?

              “Please don’t post idiotic comments like that here. [because Ive been coming here a long time and I don’t approve] There are plenty of other sites that pander to that sort of thing.[thing like ways of thinking I don’t comprehend or agree with]”

              Just listen to yourself man.

              1. JB

                This is a science based site. It’s inappropriate to post unsubstantiated assertions, conspiracy theories and other bad tempered nonsense. That’s my opinion and, as I understand it, I am allowed to post my opinions just as you are allowed to post yours. And Andrew is permitted to post his.

                Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence …. and they can be dismissed in the same combative way that they were made.

                I presume that when Andrew was referring to an ex-terrorist, he was referring to the current head of the WHO. A bloke incidentally who has previously praised President Trump’s leadership.
                https://www.foxnews.com/world/world-health-organization-praises-trump-leadership-coronavirus-pandemic
                That he is a terrorist or ex-terrorist is a claim that is widespread among right-wing conspiracy theorists. It appears to be another piece of unsubstantiated character assassination. One that you seem happy to overlook. Also, how you ‘know’ that 90% of what Andrew wrote is true, beats me. As far as I know, it was mostly incorrect.

                Quite how you justify Andrew posting his choleric claims but damn someone for posting a choleric response also eludes me. I suspect you have some affinity for the tinfoil hat persuasion yourself.given how much time you spend defending them.

                But thanks for the sermon anyway. I continue to admire the way in which you manage to affect an air of smug superiority in all your posts defending the indefensible. It’s something I’ve never been able to achieve (and it’s not for lack of trying).

      2. Think about it Deb. What “they” are saying is BS imo. If virus particles can linger in the air for hours, or on surfaces for days, there is nothing that says they don’t land on lettuce, peppers, tomatoes, or fruit etc. Washing food in bleach solution or soapy water might work for a few sturdier items, but by and large looks like cans and containers are the safest, and leave fresh items for another year.

        1. Do we have one single known case of one person getting covid from food or packaging yet?
          (I know its not scientific to draw a conclusion from this, but it is a valid question.)

          Does this group generally fear that Covid will wipe out humanity?

          There is a lot of guessing here, so i am just going to ask it:

          When this thing is brought under control to a point where we “know” how many will die per year, and it is a number we are all comfortable with (like the flu), what then is the number you guess we will have for 2020 deaths, with all things included and with current bad or good global actions occurring to fight it.

          Global number?

          USA number?

          1. Reminds me of when we were told as children that we could get diseases from toilet seats. I don’t think that ever happened…

            1. How would you know? Do you have extensive knowledge on the matter? I know a girl who got a skin infection from a toilet seat. The redness and blistering across her buttocks and thighs were actually the shape of a toilet seat. But since you’ve never known of it happening, it never happened?

    2. WASH YOUR PRODUCE. Seriously even without covid wash all of it even if it says pre-washed. It all has bacteria colonizing.

      1. sound advice, mitigates 99% risk?. Why even discuss covid flying on to veggies if we simply wash hands and wash produce?

        1. JazzBass, are you scrubbing broccoli crowns with sudsing disinfectant soap for 20 seconds (or more, since its going straight into your mouth)? How about leaves of lettuce, kale or other veg we consume raw? Or frozen berries? Yes I have always washed produce under running tap, but apparently this is not good enough for our hands, so is it good enough for something we eat?

    3. Many of the comments here seem to lack common sense. COVID-19 can’t replicate on food — it needs a human host. Dr Greger is not the only professional saying you are unlikely to get it from broccoli — the CDC and all other reputable medical outlets are also saying that there is no evidence of transmission through food and food packaging and food prepared using good hygiene practices presents no known risk (and little to no hypothetical risk). Even if there were enough virus on your produce to make you sick, it would not survive the processes of washing and cooking.

      The primary way this virus spreads is through respiratory droplets and person to person contact (which generally involves respiratory droplets). Wash your hands regularly for 30-60 seconds (especially every time you leave home and return). Wash your produce. Cook your food. Avoid touching your face. Wear a mask. Avoid all contact with people outside of your household. Listen to science.

      1. Allison, I guess you are not following along here. We were not debating about how the virus replicates etc, or the need to wash our hands, wear masks, maintain social distance, or cooking our food. The thing is, that we are told to disinfect surfaces daily, (the stores close early to devote extra hours to this chore) but fresh food is exposed daily to people breathing on it and then we take it home to eat it. Two thoughts come to mind here. One is that authorities say rinsing our hands in water is not good enough. The other is that as Dr Greger has been saying, the virus remains viable even after going the distance through our digestive tract. Currently there are no studies that prove eating raw greens/fruit is safe.

        1. Exactly! Why is it safe to eat, (e.g., put in your mouth,) a doughnut upon which someone with the virus has possibly breathed/coughed, but your hand to your lips is not safe? That doesn’t make sense.

          Likewise, why must I wash my hands for 20 seconds with soap and water, but for produce, all I have to do is rinse/scrub it under water?

          And I’m not saying people reading these posts eat doughnuts; it’s just an example.

  3. The clear benefit of “sheltering in place” is that it breaks one branch of (exponential) transmission for each person who complies. So if all “Non Essential” persons sheltered in place, there would presumably be a huge flattening of the infection rate curve.

    But what about the flip side of this solution? I think one of the reasons state governments decided to re-open businesses before the 2nd wave hit was because they could see the economic impact – that it was causing people to lose their livelihoods (even their homes) to save the lives of the 5-10% who might die from exposure to SARS2. Even now I am not sure the majority of U.S. citizens would comply with another mandatory business lock-down.

    So, is it worth trading your economic livelihood (and possibly your home) for the sake of the few percent who would not survive the disease? I’m not taking a side here; I just wanted to see what others think.

    1. We are still in the first wave. It only plateaued then started rising again.

      People who see property more important than life are going to feel very silly dead not able to own property anymore. Without health possessions are worthless.

      1. See the charts here?

        https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

        Open a new tab for the US…then open a new tab for Italy.

        Look at the charts for Daily New Cases for both countries…

        Italy is showing competence and sanity (even though it was hit very hard)…the US is showing ineptitude and stupid…very good showing for a “world leader”?

        About the only “good” chart for the US is that for daily deaths…which is trending down…probably due to younger people now getting corona.

        My basic uninformed advice…it ain’t over yet….there are the overall stats and then there is your own situation….protect it.

        Don’t emulate the dummy…

    2. Εὔτυχος

      In the United States, right now, 40 states have an R Naught above 1 and 5 or 6 more may also have an R Naught above 1 (They give a range and 40 states are clearly above 1 and 5 or 6 are close to 1.)

      Some states have been having 10,000 new cases per day and some states already have their hospitals filling up and their ICU’s filling up and some are not seeing patients.

      This would have happened earlier if we had opened earlier.

      The good news is that now we have some medications that improve mortality and people who get it now, may be lucky enough to get plasma from people who have recovered. Plus, Italy has said that where the virus used to kill people over age 80 in days, now there are people over 90 living through it.

      But people are getting medical bills for over 1 million dollars and people are dying and people are becoming sterile, and are coming away with longterm damage to their lungs, hearts, kidneys, liver, and brains, so their medical costs in America will be so high that the whole concept of “livelihood” gets erased here if the person goes to a hospital, unless they are old enough to have Medicare, plus secondary insurance.

      People with high deductibles already will balk at the $3000-ish med that might help them to recover a few days faster, but it is $10,000 per day staying overnight in the hospital and the insurance companies are trying to get businesses to accept a high deductible, plus a high co-pay.

      The two plans we were offered, people would have had a $12,000 deductible, plus a 30% co-pay after the deductible is met.

      Okay, so lets go to the Newsweek article, the first bill the person got was for 1.1 million dollars. The 30% after the $12,000 already makes me want to stay home.

      1. My understanding is that all healthcare bills, if directly linked and formally associated with Covid 19 are paid by the government. You will get a million dollar bill, but the gov will pay it. Like any other doctor bill you get, that then gets paid by the insurance co.

        Insurers like Cigna are paying for all post covid complications, provided the doc states “This is a result of Covid 19”.

        This is happening because insurance companies love to have guaranteed pay – from the gov who regulates the flow of capital towards the big corps, in the corps favor.

        This is a screwed up system and puts the judgement still in the hands of the insurance conglomerates – so think about this when voting.

        Repubs will stay largely silent on healthcare except to can the old plan, and Dems will use code words like “access to affordable healthcare”, which means if its still not a right as far as they are concerned, and is still linked to a job, and still is all in the hands of the profit driven insurance companies who are still to form “judgement” and charge your a** off.

        1. jazzBand,

          Do you have any support for your statement, that “all healthcare bills, if directly linked and formally associated with Covid 19 are paid by the government?”

          Because everything I’ve read indicates that care is paid for by insurance companies, or out-of-pocket for the uninsured, of which there are no many more, because so many workers have lost their jobs. EG: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-health-care-costs-medical-treatment/; https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-patients-medical-bills-hospitals-doctors-insurance-2020-5, etc.

            1. I have read that the average stay for COVID-19 is $76,000 and people who don’t have insurance are responsible for all of it.

              That is average. If you go on a ventilator, the cost goes up wildly.

              Even with Medicare, if people don’t have co-insurance they could really be in trouble because the pills alone could put them in the emergency donut hole. They could have up to 20% copays and if they are hospitalized starting at 60 days, they have to pay over $300 per day and at 90 days, it goes up over $700 per day that they are responsible. Plus, seniors can be charged a deductible per hospital stay, meaning more than once per year.

              At the beginning of this pandemic, they were talking on the news how people are getting sued by hospitals.

              And, if you are a poor person in some states, they can put you in a work labor situation where you are strip-searched every night and they force you to work and take every penny until your debt and court costs are paid for and they won’t tell you how long you have to do that type of labor.

              1. FAIR found uninsured Americans with COVID-19 could pay an estimated average of $73,300 for a 6-day hospital stay, while insured patients could expect to pay a portion of the $38,221 average cost billed to insurers.

                That is for a 6-day stay, but that is only the average stay.

                $38,221 if you do have insurance paying the rest is still pretty steep.

                1. Let’s go back to the economic reality of America.

                  People without insurance, if they go to the hospital for 6 days will pay $73,300 or more if they go to the ICU.

                  Half of Americans make less than $33,000 per year.

                  A quarter of Americans make less than $22,000 per year.

                  Six million Americans make HALF the poverty level – amounting to $9000 per year for a family of 3.

                  Six million Americans made ZERO dollars last year.

                  1. Most essential workers don’t have insurance.

                    Most essential workers don’t have a full-time job.

                    In some places, 95% of the cases were essential workers.

                    1. Also, if you think you can just not pay your medical bills.

                      More and more and more hospitals are having people’s pay docked.

                      In Virginia, 36% of hospitals sued patients and garnished their wages in 2017, according to JAMA.

                      That is going up.

                    2. The 1.1 million dollar “first bill” covered in Newsweek was for a person who had died.

                      But if you think, well they can’t take money from a dead person,

                      There are also cases like Yale-New Haven Hospital in Connecticut from years ago where they pursued a patient’s widow to pay off his late wife’s 20-year-old medical bills.

          1. Dr J, and Deb.

            Yes I do have supporting evidence and so do you, its called the CARES act.

            Here’s a starter for you guys, specifically:
            https://www.hrsa.gov/coviduninsuredclaim

            The president is low hanging fruit, the village idiot, and we hate him because he’s an asshole. We cant deny that, but that has nothing to do with any of the political/social issues. However it has everything to do with what we read and watch.

            We really have to be more selective about what we take away from what we watch and read, by watching and reading more and alternative material. In fact, if the gov or mass media rejects out of hand a foreign leaders actions, or a journalists report, then we better damn well look DEEP and see whats going on there. Far too many NYT and WAPO and television celebs have been caught lying or toe-lining by now, for us to simply nod along approvingly, with “drinking bird” syndrome” lol
            https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-15-2017/uyIE3o.gif

            In this case,though its hard to believe if one is status quo, water carrier for the DNC, Trump has totally out-lefted Pelosi, Schumer, AOC, even BERNIE! And of course the ridiculous puppet cop-a-feel Biden who is on film at Brookings instittute creepily saying Paul Ryan is right and we DO have to go after social security and medicare. Its not a good time here, and we will have to have a third party that is viable before I will participate again. Personally I’m resolved to voting FOR someone, rather than against another.

            Yes, Biden has rejected medicare for all in favor of the insurance profit code phrase: “access to affordable health care”.

            …..And ironically Trumpo has given medicare for all now – for Covid patients at least.

            Unfortunately this happens even here at NF. Ive spent the last 6 months telling everyone I know about Dr.G and his good work. I believed he looked deeply into the research debunking those with conflicts of interest…..”so that you don’t have too”.

            But yesterday I went to an older vid here about tooth decay and was truly shocked to see him post a pic of a sick Iraqi child, debunking sanctions based iraqi infant mortality in the early ’90’s through purported government propaganda using a study by the British Royal Military!! It stated that a decades long war and crippling sanctions have little to do with Iraqs troubles! It hurt me deeply, its false, and the report is not a UN report, it is a British Military Medical report. We do know that the Brits and the US were the ones who attacked a country for purposes of continued regime change policy, and for oil, under false pretenses, concocted between US and UK etc… The same UK military who put out the report Greger used in his off topic inclusion.

            I really want him to pull that part of the video out, really I do, and its got ZERO to do with tooth decay issues.

            I still like the guy, but am terribly disappointed now…I’m now thinking that if this research wasn’t checked for interest conflict, then what about all the rest of the studies on this site? I prefer to believe hes been apolitical largely, and therefore a bit less thorough in his research when it comes to both history and politics. But too, lead down a path of concensus that is quite dangerous and untrue, as have so many of us in the US.

            1. Would love to see Dr. Greger do a book called. “How not to Fund Scientific Research”. This is a huge problem for life on this planet. Such concentrated wealth eventually will crush the freedom of scientific inquiry. Seeing the lights really flicker these last few months. So come on Dr. Greger, do a book detailing the money trails behind all the science you bring to us.

    3. While its true that the infection fatality rate is only about 1%, that understates the problem, given that there’s growing evidence of persistent, perhaps permanent lung and kidney damage in a substantial minority of survivors. Some on dialysis, Young people that 3 months after recovery still cannot walk a flight of stairs before winded, Cases of viral encephalitis with who knows what long-term neurological effects.

      We know that Covid-19 lockdowns can work to at least bring the scale down to that which might be manageable by easier distancing measures (masks, physical distancing, no mass indoor events) and public health surveillance. But they only worked well when there was enough public acceptance and in some cases government enforcement to get Rt (how many each infected is expected to infect) well below 1 for a couple of months. One can estimate Rt from the time series of daily new cases, but in almost no US states did Rt fall below 0.8 for long. Connecticut has been doing best, but even they only managed to hover at 0.75.

      I find the US early response to Covid-19 a series of wasted opportunities and counterproductive messaging. A “short sharp shocked” lockdown could have worked as well as elsewhere, but once masks and even vital statistics became politicised, a whole lot of us reverted to our stone age tribal brains…

      1. Darryl,

        Your thoughts are worth reading.

        You are right that everything in America has become politicized and it has caused so many problems.

        In reality though, America is not a nation that has enough self-discipline and compliance and respect for authority to ever use the models from the countries that used discipline to lower their rates.

        It would have been nice if we could have contained it but we can’t even agree if contact tracing is a violation of rights or if wearing masks are a violation of rights.

        My relative said that she was in a store, I think she said Target and none of the young people were wearing masks and she went to the manager and they said that we cannot do anything about it.

        We cannot have them arrested or removed.

        We regret that people are not demonstrating care for other people’s health but we cannot stop them.

        1. Hate to bring this up again, but aren’t the masks generally for us, not others? It means I don’t care much if others are generally not wearing a mask, though I do realize it could get in my eyes as I walk by some wafting, but just wearing reading glasses or protective goggles from home depot at $3.99 would do much.

          To All:

          If I wear a mask properly, and wash my hands well (20 seconds) immediately after each and every public interaction, while at the same time having sanitized my living environment, and wipe down purchases and reasonable care with fresh foods, what is the likelihood I will get Covid -19?

          1 in 100,000,000?
          1 in 10,000,000?
          1 in 1,000,000?
          1 in 100,000?
          1 in 10,000?
          1 in 1000?
          1 in 100?
          1 in 10?
          0?

      2. Darryl, great to see a post from you again. We have been missing your thoughtful commentary. Your contributions to these boards are highly valued.

  4. I love the webinars.

    I can’t say that highly enough.

    Rewatching the whole webinar with the questions and answers and having the questions all be on the main topic adds so much to the experience.

  5. This video just repeats what has been said for months by public health departments. Only took 4 months to catch up. I would not rely on this source for timely covid information.

    What public health is currently discussing: Scientists Plan To Urge WHO To Take Airborne Spread Of Coronavirus More Seriously
    Airborne transmission could dramatically shift safety guidelines, requiring more mask usage and better air circulation indoors.

    1. RB I’m thinking the good Doc G might have actually made these 4 months ago too, (hence the underwhelming response) and is just releasing them in drabs to conclude his series and to have ongoing content while he does his own research.

      I’m sure a new arrival will learn something from this vid, or even a veteran here who hasn’t spent all his/her time looking into the backroom of “everything Covid 19” on a 24 hour basis.

      I’m simply saying that were here because we love this guy and his info, and we have likely come to be accustomed to each video being an earth shattering ground breaker since he has so many gems!

      1. Yes JB you get the facts of now NF.O is operated. It’s not a “current events” station. Only a carefully researched and produced series of videos that may or may not be timely.

        And ALSO RB should notice that Michael Greger foretold this event 14 years ago.

        No one thought that to be “timely” either. I’ll take solid info over “breaking news” mayhem and malarkey any day of the week. Most common sources of information have far to many conflicts to present fully believable information. Quality of information is the problem we have in this information overload of Today.

        A husband of a local hospital worker told me last Wednesday that they are not using masks or gloves inside that hospital, except for surgery–as usual. They are being extra dutiful to wash hands.

      2. jazzBass,

        Dr. Greger had 2 webinars where this information was shared.

        Plus, he released an audiobook.

        So, yes, it was a long time ago that this information was first available on the site. It took longer for the videos to be made.

  6. ONLY OLD PEOPLE DIE FROM COVID , IT HAS FEWER DEATHS THAN THE SWINE FLEW . PEOPLE WHO ARE HEALTHY DO NOT DIE OF COVID , PERIOD .
    MEANWHILE , WORLD ECONOMIE CRASHED I SEE NOBODY FALLING DEATH ON STREET AND NOBODY KNOWS A PEROSN WHO WAS HEALTHY WHO DIED .
    GET YOUR IMUUUN SYSTEM HEALTY IS NOT AN ADVICE ?!
    SCAM THATS WHAT IT IS .

    1. You are so right – Dr. Greger is swimming on the wave of “huuuuu Corona is so bad” and he is fishing for “Klicks”. This site is no longer a good site for information, because he is traped in the same Prpaganda Trap like the most… and I thought if you on a wfpblf diet the brain is function better. It’s so pitty….

    2. Tens of thousands of people under the age 65 and thousands 45 years old and younger have died from COVID-19.

      Those were the numbers before re-opening.

      I live in the Northeast and one friend had an 18-year-old die and my brother had a friend who was a 46-year-old athlete die and my co-worker’s wife lost her aunt who was older, but who had no overt health problems and who was a dynamic, happy person, and could have lasted decades longer.

      We don’t know yet what is going to happen next.

      But young people are going psychotic and are being made sterile and it is affecting brains, lungs, heart, kidney, liver and big toes of people even when they don’t die.

      We can talk about it a few months from now because we are still in the first wave and the USA is open and the hospitals everywhere are filling up.

      If they had filled up all at the same time in the beginning of this, we would have had so many extra deaths.

      This already has more counted deaths than Swine Flu. You are being inaccurate there. You probably watched something that was made a long time ago.

      It is already passing Swine Flu’s counted deaths and they believe that there are about 30% more deaths, which they are trying to figure out right now because in the beginning there weren’t enough tests and people were sent home from hospitals and the numbers are always adjusted at the end and they think it will be about 30% higher than our current counted numbers.

      The worst regular flu season only had less than 8,000 counted deaths, but once they do the extra death process, it went up to 60,000 and COVID-19 has already doubled the worst flu season in the USA and that is without the adjustment that will be coming.

      Right now, hospitals and ICU’s are filling up, but because we took the time to flatten the curve, a lot of these people in the hospital now came after we got masks for the doctors and after we got meds and plasma and many of those won’t die.

      We would have had a serious disaster if our whole country had gotten results like NY.

      1. It is not a pandemic with a death rate of 3.4 % of population given by World Health Orgenisation what is Rockenfeller Organisation .
        By coincidence Bill Gates the salesman who biggest sponsor and is not a Doktor he tells, only cure is vaccinations.
        Numbers show it is by far a pandemic.
        We have been lied to and they do not reverse anything, see no evil with my own eyes only scary people.
        Hear evil in lies and manipulation of world leaders who have no facts, just scare tactics and assumptions.

      2. Deb these points are circular I know, and it seems people keep talking past one another.

        One person says how devastating a global financial crash is and compares it to the number of deaths from Covid and makes their conclusion and judgment that if 90% or greater of covid deaths is based on being a fat unhealthy person who made selfish decisions, then its practically Darwinian.

        The financial and social impact of these choices even without Covid are devastating, and the corps and government are part of this vicious fat club through cronyism and payoff and legislation and general immorality, while going to church every sunday and stating “god bless america”.

        Yes a few young people are dying. Yes, it is true. Ok, It is true. Keep saying it as if the point isn’t known. we know Deb.

        We do care, but we care more for the whole. Life isn’t as precious as comfortable white rich insulated people feel it is. That preciousness was empirically stolen on the backs of the suffering.

        I understand that you likely feel the posts here which seem to be comparing other suffering to Covid suffering seems cold to you, but if one could wear the other shoe one would see that people from other lands understand life better than we do here in our comfortable little cocoon.

        Deb, im sorry an 18 year old died, or a teacher died.

        Peope die. Covid, flu, run over by bus, etc… how many died from a gun here in this wonderful place? etc..
        https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/charts-and-maps

        We could do this again, and again, you pointing out specific cases of a healthy peron pasing and iven thousands (compared to 300 million), and us, naming all the other ways in which people die, in the hopes you and others would finally understand the point of view that we ALL agree, that life is precious – but not guaranteed.

        People who seem to believe in god cant also want to control fate. Its not possible to have it both ways.

        The choices these unfortunate people have made to get obese, unhealthy etc.., even if unwittingly guided by “experts”, corps, our govs, and advertising, is the TRUE reason MOST of them are dying from this disease. If you feel you have info up till now that supports less than 90-95%+++ comorbidity in covid deaths, I am certainly willing to listen, as my positions area always able to withstand new info to help in finding the truth, above opinion.

        Yes, you will see further complications for SOME healthy people, but again, and I am sorry, but this is life. When we can feel so bad for Palestinians, Yemenis, Rwandan, and Sudanese, as we do for the horror that was just one of many holocausts, we will know what real danger and suffering is.

        Until then we are just talking past each other.

        If we truly look honestly and thoroughly into otherwise “healthies” who died, or have long lasting complications we will likely show the evidence pointing to previously unknown prior health conditions, in nearly all of them.

        If one searches we can find countless deaths associated with the onset of a flu or other condition in a healthy person and for some reason…”they just died”??? There is data to support these anecdotal yet sad occurrences as well.

        Its a horrible disease. That is a truth we can all agree on for sure.

        1. jazzBass,

          You are doing some sort of philosophical, moral process.

          The USA is open and there are just about 45 states with an R Naught above 1.
          There are over 12 states where hospitalizations are dramatically increased.

          And, we have a few states that have already started having an increase in deaths, more than they had during this whole time.

          And that is true even though the median age of people getting it in most of the states is 35 instead of 65.

          We don’t know yet how many people will die this summer and we are expected to have a second wave in the fall and winter.

          Swine flu, most of the deaths happened that second wave. Same for the pandemic of 1918.

          People acting like it is like the flu and having people put their lives at risk because of it is tragic to me.

        1. Swine flu and regular flu deaths were manipulated in the exact same way.

          People die at home. People die in nursing homes which didn’t have to report deaths before May 1st.

          Most recently, when they looked at “excess deaths” there were a lot of cases where they put the deaths in the heart category and because COVID-19 affects the heart, the doctors don’t know how to categorize things.

          The heart category has such a big jump from every previous years that they do think that COVID was under-reported by calling the cause of death heart.

          The same situation has happened with diabetes and other things that are comorbidities for COVID.

          They are doing a complex process right now, but it is the one I trust more because it is case by case.

      3. “But young people are going psychotic and are being made sterile and it is affecting brains, lungs, heart, kidney, liver and big toes of people even when they don’t die.”
        – – – – – –

        Debbie the Downer is now making me depressed. :-(

        1. YR,

          Would you rather me lie and say none of that is happening at all?

          Reality is what is making you depressed.

          It doesn’t depress me. It arms me with information to empower me.

          1. Actually, Deb, I was just kidding. I think your over-active brain….relating to the world everything that comes into your mind from second to second….is what really “depresses” me. :-) And where are your links showing the all-important “scientific evidence” that what you say is true? About big toes, for instance.

            I’m glad this information (but is it all true?) “empowers” you, though. Sounds like it keeps you from sleeping most nights. I would call that “controlling.”

    3. Generally true….. but SEVEN OUT OF TEN AMERICANS are overweight or obese (i.e. NOT HEALTHY) and the same number takes at least one prescription medication per day (i.e. NOT HEALTHY).

      They are not falling dead in the streets– they’re doing it in the ICU hooked up to a ventilator. You know– the same ICUs that are reaching maximum capacity in the handful of (mostly red) states that opened up way too early.

    4. Brian,

      You are so wrong:

      “ Nick Cordero, a Canadian actor who earned a Tony nomination for the 2014 musical “Bullets Over Broadway” and seemed on the cusp of an even more prominent career before being hospitalized with the coronavirus, died July 5 at a hospital in Los Angeles. He was 41.” He had no known underlying health conditions, and in fact, his symptoms were initially mild — before they took a turn for the worse. He even had a leg amputated, and doctors were considering a lung transplant. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/nick-cordero-tony-nominated-broadway-star-dies-at-41-of-coronavirus/2020/07/05/3d194b62-a42f-11ea-bb20-ebf0921f3bbd_story.html

      Another victim, a 28 year old woman, had a double lung transplant, because her lungs were destroyed. In fact, the doctors had a hard time removing them, they were in such bad shape and adhering to whatever surfaces surround the lungs; the photo was amazingly horrible.

      There are many, many other cases. And those who come down with serious symptoms but survive may have long and difficult recoveries.

      Please, Brian, are you a troll? Because if you aren’t, educate yourself.

      1. Hes not a troll, he thinks. And differently than you.

        Hope you don’t mind, and we are all sorry for those particular losses I am sure.

        1. jazzBand,

          Brian typed: “ONLY OLD PEOPLE DIE FROM COVID , IT HAS FEWER DEATHS THAN THE SWINE FLEW.”

          So, pigs are flying now? Are you familiar with the adage: “When pigs fly?” That’s the universe in which his comments might be correct.

          And his comments are the result of thinking? I think not. And I do mind. His comments are wrong. And thoughtless.

          1. Point taken and you are right there, here is my issue and why Ive taken to bolstering posters of alternative thought here: he also said other things you did mention.

            One of the results of this horror has been a global financial downfall, if not collapse, as Brian did say, and it may be that is where he has personal reasons for being more than upset at blanket moves by governments, some way more progressive and thoughtful than others.

            When I saw it, I noticed all caps. Brian is pissed. Really pissed. Im sure its not just couch sitting and being against all authority etc, but I suppose it could be.

            His first assertion is the greater point and it is true, in summary of percentage, but of course others have unfortunately perished. I just keep seeing so many posts going back to the same response of “Oh yeah? Well i heard of 45 year old who died and he was completely fine!”, and so for response to that see my other post.

            We live in a world of mutually exclusive beliefs, so lets try to help others see a different point of view.

            I can say that I do understand, and have knowledge of rising R values across the states for example, and in relation to renewed public gatherings both social and political, it makes sense to make the connection.

            That matters to Brian.

            I am also in knowledge of the fact that this has devastated so many lives without a cough or sneeze. They’ve been CRUSHED financially.

            This still does not preclude me from the knowledge that most of the deaths in the high 90% are still in fact, old fat unhealthy people. At least for now, that info does hold water. Mutually exclusive truthful, and sometimes opposing points of view exist.

            I’m familiar with “when pigs fly” and I am not associating long term research with Brians assertion, but actually, yes, it is what he thinks – even if you mind it. And yes he is thinking, just not perhaps similarly to you.

            I understand where you are coming from, and every day I’m smacking my forehead about matters where its so clear that people just dont get it. Its hard to allow voice to things we are so convinced are untrue, but allow we must. And really is he terribly far off? Do pigs need to fly to understand so many “shams” taking place today?

            It would be different if we were anything like what we’ve propped ourselves up to be.

            Brian I’m sorry you are upset, and I hope you will get some solace that we are all just trying to figure all this out. One way to do that is for us all to become informed in ways other people see these times.

            Numbers are only part of this. ah hmmm.

            1. JB

              This site allows people to voice all kinds of opinions, make unsubstantiated accusations and state false ‘facts’..

              That doesn’t mean that others can’t criticise those posts, especially when they make claims that are factually incorrect. You mean well but the right to post fake news shouldn’t be misinterpreted to be the right to post fake news without correction or disagreement.

              1. Tom,

                Thank you for saying that.

                I watched the Stanford guy and he succeeded at getting people to not feel threatened and not feel in danger and I hate that people will die because they believe those things.

                Dr. Greger’s life is dedicated to giving information to help people not to die and discrediting him based on spurious information when lives are at risk is not something I understand the motivation of at all. I know that people wanted their stores open and they have got them open now and it is increasing cases and hospitalizations through the roof in the USA.

                This time it is younger people and perhaps tens of thousands more of them will die.

                The argument isn’t about shutting down anymore, but shutting down did save lives and buy time and Dr. Greger saying it is wisdom.

              2. “This site allows people to voice all kinds of opinions, make unsubstantiated accusations and state false ‘facts’.. ” Honestly, you seem to not be at ease with this.

                That’s the beauty of this. You can take your typical stance of “That’s ridiculous”. “That’s chalk and cheese” etc… but honestly you’d be better off reading up on it to make sure what you think is fake isn’t just suppressed.

                From most of your posts its clear to me you are done learning.

                I’m not sure of the value of a post that says,’That’s ridiculous! You haven’t provided any proof!”, as if one cant do their own research.

                I mean you’ve just pointed out people post fake things, or misrepresented things here, which can include both of us really, so simply discrediting things out of hand isn’t of value.

                Especially since often, you simply disagree.

                You are condescending, and saying that I mean well is anther arrogant british trope of presumed superiority and falls short of truth or any real reason.

                But right you are, I do mean well, but it isn’t in spite of myself.

                1. JB

                  You are entitled to your opinions of course. The problem is that this is a site about nutrition facts and scientific evidence. People like you think that their opinions are just as valid as scientific evidence and should be treated with equal or greater respect , Frankly that is ridiculous.

                  When you and others post such foolish comments, this needs to be highlighted. I don’t apologise for attacking quackery, absurd conspiracy theories and ignorant sneers by people who are angry that the evidence doesn’t support their opinions.

                  The fact you have no evidence or logic to support your claims is evidenced by the fact that you again attack me because I am of British origin. What’s that got to do with anything?. All you do is offer your opinions. Over and over again. Along with some cod justification for treating unsubstantiated conspiracy theories seriously. With a bit of racial stereotyping thrown in for good measure.

                  1. Fumbs, name one thing Ive said that you feel I cant back up, but would rather you look into if you feel its untrue?

                    Ive invited you already twice now to point out one thing I’ve said that isn’t factual, only if Ive not spoon-fed you the facts. Ive heard no response there.

                    That’s what bullies do, discrediting things, saying “that’s ridiculous”, with no proof of claim of their own.

                    You are a bully. Discrediting my post about how you call people and ideas ridiculous, by calling it ridiculous illustrates the point. Even if humourous.

                    Racial stereotyping is where in posts?

                    So by all means, yes, lets stick to nutrition since neither you or I want to read each others posts about opinion.

                    1. JB

                      As I wrote before, all you do is post your opinions. Fascinating stuff to be sure.

                      I particularly enjoy the way you attempt to cane me for telling other people what to do and then promptly tell me what to do. And all done without a trace of irony.

  7. dr cobalt (not his real name or occupation. Any similarity to persons living or dead is purely coincidental) dr cobalt (not his real name or occupation. Any similarity to persons living or dead is purely coincidental) says:

    Today’s video helps me understand why I got the flu during the 2018-2019 season. For years during flu season I have assiduously met an outstretched hand with a fist-bump to minimize the possibility of infection. (Most people are sympathetic.) But I got the flu anyway that year. Now I think I get it. If we habitually touch our faces dozens of times an hour and even our eyes, nose, and mouth multiple times… per hour… well, it’s easy to see why I got it.

    Deb shared a nice video last week that helps explain why washing your hands with soap is so effective (t=4:55):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQUCCkHNjN8

    Thanks, Deb.

    1. Dr. Covid,

      I am wondering if this year will officially be the year that handshakes become relegated to history.

      Sports will be opening up without high-fives and fist bumps.

      And, they tried elbow bumps, but they had been teaching children to cough into their elbows for years so greeting people with a germy hello probably didn’t make sense.

      1. Deb,

        I think an elbow bump puts people too close together, less than 3’ apart. A fist bump keeps people almost the 6’ distancing recommended. But I now like jazz hands, which I can use from an even greater distance. Why do I need to touch another person to greet them?

        1. I’ve been doing traditional namaste, Vulcan salute, and the Muslim hand upon heart, depending on the audience. Jazz hands never occurred to me.

        2. The Roman salute is deeply unfashionable these days for obvious reasons but a simple nod should be OK.

          Perhaps one reason why Asian societies may have lower transmission rates than Western societies, is that they often seem to use bowing in place of handshakes or high fives or whatever.

    2. dr cobalt,

      I now treat the flu with much more respect. And I want to avoid it all the more.

      While waiting in the family waiting room of the cardiac ICU in January, I got to chatting with another family also waiting there: their family member was a patient, early 60s, a nurse at the hospital and in very good health (she ran marathons) BEFORE she came down with the flu — and she had been on life-support for 9 days. Very sad. I don’t know if she survived.

  8. I somewhat agree with Brian only because of the research that I have done on the entire subject. The Swiss study which was done in June 2020 is along the same vein as nutionfacts. Make a statement and back it up with the data to support the claim. This is a great independent compendium.
    Read with an open mind. https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

    1. James,

      The USA hospitals are filling up since opening up and we haven’t finished the first wave yet and flu seasons count their numbers at the end and adjust WILDLY upward where 8,000 becomes 60,000.

      COVID-19 will be adjusted wildly upward, too.

      So far, experts believe the numbers will jump by 30%.

      The counted deaths in the USA are close to 133,000 right now.

      That is not including deaths at home or nursing home deaths before May 1st and since elderly people were one of the biggest death groups, that number is going to rise considerably.

      Plus, deaths are not recorded in computers, they are done by hand, individually, verifying social security numbers and other factors, so they said that there is a lag-time in deaths right now so even the numbers we have globally might be weeks and in some places months behind.

      We will know the answers eventually, but the people comparing it to a mild flu while almost 45 of the USA states have an R Naught above 1 and many states are having their ICU’s filling up and hospitals filling up and people are being sent home it just seems premature to think that they are comparing it to a mild flu.

      1. The numbers that some of those people like the Stanford guy are using did a process where they used the lives saved by shutting down (fewer accidents, fewer deaths from air pollution, etc.) to cover up the deaths from COVID-19.

        Staying home saves so many lives that China had way more lives saved than lost. They posted Israel as a negative number because of that.

        Then, they used the benefits of staying home to justify saying that there was no benefit to staying home.

        That man from Stanford went outside of his career expertise, made a simplistic exCel sheet and started talking to people all over YouTube as if he understood things when it is the CDC that does the normal flu adjustments and the CDC is not comparing it to any type of flu.

        1. It’s a lot more deadly, concludes a new study by the University of Washington published May 7 in the journal Health Affairs. The study’s results also project a grim future if the U.S. doesn’t put up a strong fight against the spread of the virus.

          The national rate of death among people infected with the novel coronavirus — SARS-CoV-2 — that causes COVID-19 and who show symptoms is 1.3%, the study found. The comparable rate of death for the seasonal flu is 0.1%.

          “COVID-19 infection is deadlier than flu — we can put that debate to rest,” said study author Anirban Basu, professor of health economics and Stergachis Family Endowed Director of the CHOICE Institute at the UW School of Pharmacy.

        2. I just found a few sentences by Scientific America where they talked about the talkative Stanford guy and they said that his “conclusions have been ferociously criticized by other statisticians and scientists.”

          He did a ridiculously simplistic process and caused such a commotion.

          I did see a more complex process this weekend and I am waiting for that one.

          1. People intentionally used the worst flu season and they used the adjusted numbers – and I think that people genuinely get confused because they don’t understand the adjustment process.

            Plus, the fact that closing down saves so many lives makes it more confusing.

      2. Again, yes we can compare Covid to a deadly thing like the flu, even if you don’t want us too, and even as you state we dont have the information yet on covid.

        The flu, without lockdown and masks, and WITH knowledge, with vaccines, with almost no asymptomatic carriers, infects millions and kills thousands and thousands of children.

        Its not the same molecular setup, its not the same disease, yada yada. but open minded people are in fact capable of comparing disparate data points.

        This point seems to be lost with constant posts about how covid is affecting people, as if we don’t have the same information you do?

        Saying the Flu is comparable ( and potentially a greater threat) is not saying it is the same.

        1. Doctors in the hospitals are saying that it is not comparable.

          It is only comparable when you use the adjusted flu numbers and don’t adjust COVID-19

          1. The doctors in a hospitals just killed my mom and uncle this year, probably yours too. Ill not be taking their advice until they can tell me they prefer prevention over profit from multiple tests and drug administration.

            Only a few like Colin, Campbell, Greger, Ezylsten etc…

            I know you know this, so why present that hospital doctors say:”x”

            (And my process isn’t philosophical, its humane. Religion is philosophical.)

            1. To me, humane is protective over the vulnerable.

              My coworkers pleasantly surprised me last night when they had a tender conversation about, “How did we get to the place in this society of even needing to wonder if we should do everything possible to protect the elderly people?”

              jazzBass, Yes, I have had doctors in hospitals intentionally trying to put my relatives out of their misery while my relatives were saying that they weren’t miserable and weren’t in pain and I would probably match you in distrust of much of what doctors do. Plus, while my relatives were going through things, I was looking for nutritional and alternative ways of doing things and doctors don’t use infrared or PEMF or diet or so many simple things and they don’t acknowledge those things even in a conversation. They mock people for even considering it worthy of a conversation. As a caregiver, I was mocked so many times, and each of the things I tried actually helped. All of the things I tried helped. But they wouldn’t acknowledge it even after.

              But Dr. Greger acknowledges enough of those things about medicine and pharma that he has earned my respect and people trying to destroy his reputation because of the Stanford guy doing a superficial process frustrates me.

    2. SWPRS is a well-known source of dubious claims and conspiracy theories

      ‘Overall, we rate Swiss Policy Research (SPR) a Moderate Conspiracy website based on the promotion of unproven claims. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the use of poor sources and complete lack of transparency.’
      https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/swiss-policy-research/

      We’ve had quite a few conspiracy theorists post links to that site, before.

      1. Thanks, Tom!

        I appreciate your bringing back things like that.

        I smile that they are a Moderate Conspiracy website. Mixed for factual reporting.

        I see pretty much all of the press like that, but it will cause me to look them up.

  9. Greetings all. Thanks to Dr. Greger for all of his splendid videos!
    The most depressing thing about the crisis is that the USA has enormous potential to get grips on the spread on a worldwide basis. But somehow the powers that be are somehow preventing essential implementation.
    Nero had his fire, Caligula might have even appointed his horse to the senate.
    Nowadays we have to combat fake news.
    Stay well all!

          1. Yeah, that’s a failing of mine, I often don’t get other people’s opinions.

            I don’t know the truth of things either. That’s why my preference is to see the evidence and facts of the matter rather than see opinions.

  10. I heard that it is common for dogs to carry corona viruses. Can people clean up their dogs? They are like parasite and germ magnets. I say this as a born dog lover. I know their unmentionable habits. I think Hulda Clark was right about this.

  11. Regarding the last data about doctors and nurses and hand washing, I had 3 major surgeries done in 2012 and 2017 in hospitals that took pride in sanitation. Never once did I see any professional (doctor, nurse, PT, technician, etc) enter or leave my room without first using hand sanitizer.
    These hospitals both have considerably lower than the national average of infection rates. Maybe another silver lining of covid-19 is for the word to spread on this easy to implement procedure.

    1. Richard,

      That is excellent for you. In my state, the hospital with the highest-tech, newest treatments scored highest for giving people infections.

      I have been thinking a lot about that because I know people who have had mistakes in care in so many of the hospitals and everybody decided to move to the hospital that seems to be better at a lot of things but they are horrible for infections.

      I have to not get COVID-19 because I would not know which hospital to go to.

        1. jassBass,

          Yes, I am going to do everything possible to avoid hospitals at all cost.

          The cost is so high for care now that I would end up owing a few years of my salary if I went and I went WFPB the minute I did the math.

  12. Didn’t the title of this video say something about cardboard? Did I miss the stats on it, or is it the same as “printing paper”? Thanks

    1. E-Life,

      The only blood test for the coronavirus that I know of is to test for the presence of antibodies in the blood — which build up during infection, then slowly taper off afterward. As I understand it, it’s a test for whether an individual has had an infection. And since the antibody numbers decline significantly within a few months after recovering from an infection, it won’t detect infections that occurred more than several months earlier.

    2. According to the powers that be.

      The CDC and WHO believe that there is no evidence that COVID-19 can be passed on through sexual fluids (semen, vaginal fluid, blood, and anal mucus)

      However, the virus is easily spread by coming into close contact with others, and through saliva when kissing. Some initial evidence has found COVID-19 can be spread through poop (faeces), so rimming (oral-anal sex) might increase your risk of getting the virus.

      In case some people didn’t get the peach joke. I didn’t get it. I guessed it close enough, but I have never heard of rimming and do not have any interest to ever hear about it again.

      If it doesn’t spread through blood, we won’t have to worry about mosquitoes. There are viruses that do spread through blood, and I guess I will need to find out why some do and some don’t eventually.

  13. People may want to study how Japan dealt with this. Great articles out there. There were no threats or fearmongering. People were given correct facts and asked to cooperate. And almost everyone did. Japan has a large population of seniors who were encouraged to stay at home. Others not at high risk were encouraged to wear masks when in crowded indoor situations or in densely populated cities. They were encouraged to wash their hands frequently. Schools were closed down early on then reopened. Businesses were not mandated to shut. Some businesses did. The traditional Japanese diet is healthier. There is not a lot of hugging and kissing in public.
    Tests are at the most 30% effective and other viruses and bacteria can affect results. The test creators stated the test should not be used as a diagnostic tool.
    I look at data and logic, not hype. I am a healthy senior, but use reasonable caution, as I do each flu season. I am outdoors in sunshine every day and eat WFPB.
    Too much fear. Knowledge is important. Isolation is not necessary for everyone. Coercion is wrong.

    1. Lora,

      You can’t take one country and treat it like another.

      Way more Americans will die if they use Japan as a model because 7 out of 10 Americans are overweight and so many Americans have diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease and other underlying conditions.

      Americans don’t like wearing masks and nobody had them, not even the medical people when this started and, honestly, the people around me don’t wear them.

      In studies of Americans only 5% wash their hands long enough. Americans do hug and kiss and don’t want to do social distancing.

      Most Americans do not go outside because of safety issues and fear of skin cancer. Even children are not being raised to play outside and most are inside on computers or watching television.

      It is a starkly different culture.

      And that doesn’t even include diet.

      1. Deb, she isn’t “treating” another country like any other. She says we may learn from others.

        Its not a point to throw statistics at.

        Lora is right, unless you believe masks are ineffective.

        Very large percentages of old fat unhealthy diabetes ridden americans can be saved if everyone can just wear a mask or even a piece of cloth in front of their covid projectors.

        This is the prevailing info now, even from our beloved, long time politicians crony, Mr. Fauci.

        Your assertions that we are somehow different, and “americans don’t like to wear masks”, is not really a response to Lora’s assertions in my opinion. Our stupidity doesn’t preclude our being compared even if we are at the bottom of the scale.

        1. jazzBass,

          I agree with her that if Americans would eat a healthy diet and lose weight and get rid of the comorbidities, we would have a lower risk.

          But during a pandemic, I see it as America has to be way more careful than other places.

          She said that she is against isolation, and considers what Dr. Greger said to be about fear, but America is a culture where if you are elderly you have to understand that people aren’t going to protect you at all. And that includes local governments and federal government.

          7 out of 10 Americans should probably have a heightened sense of fear about what will happen if they get it.

    2. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847  

      4 July 2020, Coronavirus: Japan’s mysteriously low virus death rate. 

      Why haven’t more people in Japan died from Covid-19? …Japan also discovered two significant patterns early in the pandemic.Dr Kazuaki Jindai, a medical researcher at Kyoto university and member of the cluster-suppression taskforce, said data showed over a third of infections originated in very similar places.”Our figures… showed many infected people had visited music venues where there is screaming and singing… we knew that those were the places people needed to avoid.”The team identified “heavy breathing in close proximity” including “singing at karaoke parlours, parties, cheering at clubs, conversations in bars and exercising in gyms” as the highest-risk activities.Second, the team found that the infection’s spread was down to a small percentage of those carrying the virus.An early study found around 80% of those with Sars-CoV-2 did not infect others – while 20% were highly infectious.These discoveries led to the government launching a nationwide campaign warning people to avoid the “Three Cs”
      Enclosed spaces with poor ventilation
      Crowded places with many people
      Close contact settings such as face-to-face conversations.

      “I think that probably worked better than just telling people to stay at home,” Dr Jindai says.

      1. I wonder if they will confirm that Asia had a different strain?

        These sentences that Japan didn’t do as well as their Asian neighbors shows that even if they look good when compared to America, they might not be the right model. Vienam had zero deaths.

        And the fact remains that Japan’s response was less than perfect. While the overall population is much smaller, Asian neighbors such as Taiwan had just seven confirmed deaths from the virus, while Vietnam had none.

        “You can’t say the Japan response was amazing,” said Norio Sugaya, a visiting professor at Keio University’s School of Medicine in Tokyo and a member of a World Health Organization panel advising on pandemic influenza. “If you look at the other Asian countries, they all had a death rate that was about 1/100th of Western countries.”

    3. Do you know if ventilators were used for those hospitalized with serious symptoms?
      I have read that ventilators will make the situation much worse and some believe that once on a ventilator you never recover. So I wonder if they use them in Japan as frequently as they are used here in the USA

      1. Evelyn,

        Japan seriously ramped up their ventilators at the beginning of COVID-19.

        They used ECMO and had zero people who had been on it died as of the article I read.

        They said that during Swine Flu, much of the rest of the world had a 90% survival using ECMO, but Japan back then only had a 30% survival using ECMO.

        This time it seemed much higher, but that is months old information.

  14. “Though the document states that employees can “voluntarily” take the vaccine, it is customary of Chinese company culture to use such language to describe mandatory policies.”
    – – – – – – –

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinese-state-run-firm-mandates-some-employees-take-part-in-covid-19-vaccine-trials-leaked-document_3412815.html?ref=brief_News&__sta=vhg.rvpxbsljqolvomlkm%7CIIY&__stm_medium=email&__stm_source=smartech
    .

  15. After watching this I have lost all faith in Dr. Gregor’s ability to know his own limitations. This is not an area of expertise for him, and he is simply supporting a party line that is actually destroying lives, probably many more than it is saving. He is someone who can well afford to stay in his home and his office, probably indefinitely, and so this is very much an elitist point of view on the matter. Everyone will get this virus, and he should have stuck to what he does best which is to advocate for diet choices that best support health.

    1. Actually, Dr. Greger happens to be an infectious disease expert. Most of his scientific publications have been on infectious diseases and his year 2006 bestseller book was also about infectious diseases.

      1. …And I am also not of the knowledge that party lines are discussing how long ER doctors wash their hands or if you can spread covid by farting.

    2. In Texas, the ICU beds are nearly full, but three out of four people who are deathly ill are not there because of COVID-19. They are there because during lockdown they were afraid to leave their homes due to stay at home orders, and many doctors were furloughed due to lack of patient visits, so it was impossible to get medical care. So their cancer, diabetes, heart disease, or whatever else was not treated in time, their condition worsened, and now they are in the ICU. The media does not discuss their plight.

    3. Reed,

      He has written 3 books on pandemics, plus has published in journals, plus did work on mad cow disease.

      There is no way that Dr. Greger of all people is supporting a party line.

      He is a non-profit doctor who has a history of standing up against big pharma, big supplement, big food industry, big medicine.

      The fact that flattening the curve has worked and bought the time for hospitals to prepare so that hospitals were not overwhelmed and so that medicines could be developed is what his video was about and that has happened.

      As it is, if people get COVID-19 and end up in the hospital, it will be the poor people and minorities and elderly who will hurt the most, both in death rate and in medical costs. Now, we know that COVID medical costs in the USA average $38,000 for people with insurance in the USA and over $70,000 for people without insurance.

      People who wanted to rush back to get back to their jobs that didn’t pay them all that well may end up spending 2 or 3 or 7 years worth of their salary just from their hospital stay in the USA. If they haven’t gone bankrupt for something like cancer or a heart attack or other surgery, they might be okay, but they only get to do that once.

  16. Life in NE Oklahoma still seems normal. At least half of people in stores are not wearing masks. I’m going to work in a lakeside community and people are recreating on the lake. The family I’m working for have several people (5 or more) in one house. One came in from another state recently.
    I don’t wash any of my food and I sleep with my dog. I guess you could say I’m dirtier than dirt. I figure I’ve already been exposed to Covid 19. So too have you, most likely. I do not shake hands, touch people intentionally and I try to social distance.

    1. Dan, what do you mean you don’t wash any of your food? I assume you mean raw produce. All that sand, grit, and little insects sure wouldn’t very tasteful to me!

      I’m happy to hear you don’t go up people on the street and give them a big smooch on the exposed part of their cheeks (face cheeks). But to that guy up the hill who (Reed) claimed “everyone will get this virus,” I say, “No sir, I have no intention of picking up this little sumamabitch.””

      1. YR,
        My last customer, in Eucha, Ok, gave me fresh picked lettuce from the garden. I ate most of it with my lunch within a few minutes.
        I’m not smooching anyone on the cheek and I’m not doing any “bare butt farting,” in public, and espcially not near produce stands. I am rather musical around the house though. But, hey, it’s just my dog and me.
        “No intention of picking up this little sumamabitch.” I’ve read that 80% of us will, many unknowingly. We might all assume that most of us will at least be carriers for a period of time. I’m 60 and hoping for a miss.

        1. These people who keep throwing out statistics…..where did “they” get 80%. There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”

        1. YR, Here’s a quote regarding the “group think” that is popular now:

          “Only the mob and the elite can be attracted by the momentum of totalitarianism itself. The masses have to be won by propaganda.”

          Hannah Arendt

  17. Children, with their very low risk of serious disease from this virus, might actually WANT to be exposed, to potentially give them some immunity in the next SARS pandemic China sends our way.  Compared to what China may well have under development in the Wuhan lab, COVID-19 could be relatively harmless in comparison, and this virus is very unusual in that children face little risk.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847 , 4 July 2020, Coronavirus: Japan’s mysteriously low virus death rate.  “Why haven’t more people in Japan died from Covid-19?  … This is particularly striking because Japan has many of the conditions that make it vulnerable to Covid-19, but it never adopted the energetic approach to tackling the virus that some of its neighbours did. …Then there is Japan’s refusal to heed the advice of the World Health Organization (WHO) to “test, test, test”. Even now, total PCR tests stand at just 348,000, or 0.27% of Japan’s population. Nor has Japan had a lockdown on the scale or severity of Europe. In early April, the government ordered a state of emergency. But the stay-at-home request was voluntary. … Tokyo University professor Tatsuhiko Kodama – who studies how Japanese patients react to the virus – believes Japan may have had Covid before. Not Covid-19, but something similar that could have left behind “historical immunity”….He thinks it is possible a Sars-like virus has circulated in the region before, which may account for the low death rate, not just in Japan, but in much of China, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and southeast Asia.”

    1. Caroline,

      The lockdown in Texas ended on April 30th.

      The governor had loosed even the ban on elective surgeries by April 22nd.

      Emergency and Cancer care were always open.

      Elective surgeries had been on hold since March 22.

      Meaning it was ONE month of elective surgeries that were put on hold.

      My brother has cancer and his cancer care never ended during COVID.

      My cousin has diabetes and is on dialysis and his care never ended.

      I am not sure you can blame a month of hold on elective surgeries on why the ICU’s are full in Texas.

      The hospitals only had to keep 25% of the hospital free for COVID-19 and right now they are letting young people die because they are having to choose who to give ECMO to. Yesterday, I watched a doctor and there were 10 young people in such bad condition that he thought they would die from COVID but he only had the ability to give 3 Ecmo, so elective surgeries may be put back on hold again.

      1. Even in NY, cancer care was not delayed unless patients requested it.

        They were still doing radiation but weren’t allowing relatives to come in.

        In NY they did switch from intravenous chemotherapy to smaller doses in pills that can be taken at home, under the supervision of a visiting nurse for taking take their vitals, when possible.

        1. I did read that some of the states did postpone mammograms and Stage 0 breast tumor removal and prostate cancer surgeries for a few months.

          Mostly because they take years to grow.

          But those people wouldn’t be in the ICU right now.

    2. Caroline,

      As far as immunity goes, some people don’t get antibodies at all after having it and they believe immunity only lasts 2 months.

      The concept would be more like saying, “I am trying to get my child to have a cold or the flu so they won’t get it next year.”

      1. Actually, Deb, what I’ve read suggests that the amount of circulating antibodies goes down fairly quickly after an infection, in a few months.

        But that’s not the same as not having any immunity against the coronavirus. There are other cells involved in immunity; this is not my field, so I get them mixed up, but B cells and T cells, etc. These cells may still be capable of mounting a defense, including producing antibodies. Whether a person who has recovered from Covid-19 is immune from the virus, and if so for how long, is still an open question.

  18. At this time I would like request a safe actionable list of procedures for leaving the house, getting into my vehicle to go shopping, shopping, returning to the house, and unloading food and supplies. Please include every single step: body protection, mouth protection, eye protection, hand protection. What to do with fruits and vegetables upon return, how to handle shopping bags, and clothes worn outside, what to do about keys, how to take a shower to get virus off and not get infected by water running over face, how to handle home surfaces, what products and delivery methods are recommended, how to deal with packaged products, should anything be left untouched for a certain number of days, does cooking get rid of the virus-???????? It’s nice to listen to your sonorous voice, BUT …

    1. Laurence,

      They do know that amount of heat and length of time is important if you are trying to kill coronavirus through cooking.

      Freezing and cooling do not kill it. Cooking, it has to be hot.

      https://www.webmd.com/lung/features/coronavirus-microwave-takeout#1

      As far as all of the handling questions, the biggest part is to not touch your face while putting everything away and then wash your hands thoroughly or use hand sanitizer.

      You seem afraid, so I will say, bring hand sanitizer to the store with you and use it before entering and wear a mask while you are there, and don’t spend more than 20 minutes per trip – length of time and amount of viral load matter. Go early because the virus won’t have built up as much and there are usually elderly and vulnerable population hours. Or, listen to Dr. Greger and have your food delivered.

      For things like keys you could get a UV baby bottle sanitizer. I got a Wabi Baby and really like it. I can put my cell phone and keys and remote controls in and not have to worry at all. Just turn off your cell phone and don’t accidentally push the heat button.

      The experts don’t know whether you can get it from food, but they have not studied it yet, so washing your fruits and vegetables sounds like a good concept. If possible, buy the ones in bags rather than loose ones. The stores use Electrolyzed water to spray the vegetables so again, going early might be protective because fewer people would have handled them.

      If you are worried about your face, start with disinfecting your hands and washing your face with a facecloth after.

      Eye protection has been studied to have a small benefit. When everybody is wearing a mask transmission lowers by 75% as shown by when Australia started having everybody wear masks. Gloves are very helpful, but don’t touch your face while they are on and you can do what the hospitals do wash your hands with the gloves on, then take them off, and wash your hands again. You can use a UV cleaner or the sunlight or steam or electrolyzed water or a washing machine (even better if you have one with a sanitizing function) or even just a dryer for long enough to sanitize almost anything.

      There are products where you can spray that say they prevent the viruses from taking hold of surfaces and there are foams you can put on your hands and there are masks with silver and masks with copper that kill viruses that land on them.

      I want to give you a symbolic air hug and say, mostly just washing your hands multiple times per day has been studied as a way to reduce your risk of viruses. Using a nasal saline irrigation can lower your viral load and viral shedding I think it was by 68%. My sister-in-law does that twice a day and gargles with salt water. It takes 48 hours for a virus to take hold, so things like that can make it harder for the virus to replicate and can lessen the severity if you get it.

      (super safe internet air hug)

      1. Oh, I forgot, to disinfect your hair, go outside in the sun when possible – so only do your shopping on sunny days.

        Plus, you can get Vitamin D by being out in the sun and if you are out there, you can disinfect your keys at that time.

        1. Oh yeah, don’t touch the outside of your mask with your hands. Remove your mask by the ear loops and if you have a hook to hang it on, even better.

          If you have surgical masks make sure you have more than one or that you don’t go shopping more than once per week.

          1. If you have a person at home with a health vulnerability, consider getting a good air purifier and a UVC lamp.

            If you have someone with COVID in your home or someone with no immune system, cleaning the air might be important if you are using air conditioning.

            For air purifiers, try to buy one that doesn’t make you buy new filters every six months. I saw one recently that said that theirs can be washed for 20 years. I got an IQ Air which is very expensive and its filters need changing every 4 years, so the other one might be better, but I bought it when my grandmother was in her final months and every single visiting nurse and aide had the flu and she had MRSA and I couldn’t handle worrying about anything. She and I were the only people who didn’t get sick.

            Dr. Annies Experiments is a site that I think you will like so you can see how various cleaning methods help.

  19. Would it be safe to fly cross country in September nonstop East to West coast and return with N95 mask and goggles?
    Thanks.

    1. Ellen,

      Nobody will be able to answer that. Though there are models from a few different things.

      The first is a video about the flu which spread from 1 passenger to 72 passengers on a flight. The flights have since installed better Hepa filters, but the second video will be SARS1 on a plane where 1 person with SARS infected 22 people and that wasn’t as many years ago as the flu episode.

      The Flu
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB4nz_P2vqI

      SARS1

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Em0FSsI_VU&t=203s

      This third video is part of what the CDC says about what the airlines are doing about COVID-19

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhxaNRTaA3g

  20. I saw an ambulance this morning, in Langley, Ok. Two EMT’s, in full body garb, were with a body on a stretcher behind their wagon truck. I stopped my house painting job. Time to take “shelter-in-place” seriously.

    1. Dr. J.,
      People are selfish. It’s too bad it takes a higher order of thinking for some to consider personal responsibility. Perfectly intelligent people smoke, drink a lot, eat poorly, don’t use health precautions and cannot see how this affects others.

  21. Dan C,

    PS: “ One of Ms. Sudduth’s brothers, who lives in Mississippi, believed conspiracy theories about the virus and continued to socialize at cookouts — until last month, she said, when he came down with the virus.” (ditto).

  22. I Googled COVID-19 deaths, as I do twice a day, and tonight, I think the daily change dashboard has make a huge mistake or we just jumped so high that I don’t even want to know.

    It has a nice graph that goes up and down and the highest numbers were 2700 per day and the lower numbers were closer to a few hundred per day, and July 6th says 14,472 deaths.

    Did they just do an adjustment of some sort?

  23. It doesn’t show that way on World O Meter but some sites get information faster than the others so there is usually a few day lag.

    But 14,472 deaths would be extraordinarily high.

    It would be high for a whole week in the USA.

  24. The Rt site now shows 43 states with an Rt above 1 and 5 states close enough to 1.

    Florida is still not going to report its hospitalizations.

    I did buy toilet paper and I will do one more prepping of dried goods.

    And another gallon of hand sanitizer.

  25. Many states have started having a record number of hospitalizations.

    And the people are young.

    A spokesperson from Idaho said that 75% of positive COVID-19 cases were found in individuals under the age of 50 and that they were seriously ill.

  26. In Texas, their hospitalizations have a lot of people in their 20’s and they said that even if they are more likely to survive, they “are going to be stuck with a pretty hefty medical bill at the end of it.”

  27. Now that we are all closing the lid before flushing, doesn’t that mean that much of the fecal bacteria that was landing on our toothbrushes is now landing on the inside of the lid? When we sit on the toilet, if our clothing touches the lid, aren’t we carrying the bacteria with us out of the bathroom?

    Should we be disinfecting the inside of the lid each time before we sit?

  28. Gyms are now opening in my area. The county does not require it, but should I be wearing a mask when I work out? Should I even go to the gym? What about social distance in larger rooms? Is six feet enough when exercising?

    Thanks for these great videos.

  29. Althugh the likelihood of picking up a viable virus from groceries was considered possible early in this pandemic, the studies are showing less likelihood of that and focusing more on direct contact and respiratory spread. I don’t know that any study has confirmed an exact probablility, but these two videos should provide some guidance and reassuance:
    https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety-during-emergencies/shopping-food-during-covid-19-pandemic-information-consumers Shopping for Food During the COVID-19 Pandemic – Information for Consumers
    https://nutritionfacts.org/video/hand-washing-sanitizing-to-inactivate-covid-19-coronavirus/
    Hope this helps.

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