The Rise in Blood Lead Levels at Pregnancy & Menopause

The Rise in Blood Lead Levels at Pregnancy & Menopause
4.77 (95.43%) 35 votes

The lead trapped in our skeleton can leach back into our bloodstream when we temporarily or permanently lose bone due to pregnancy, weight loss, menopause, or osteoporosis.

Discuss
Republish

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

The half-life of lead in the bloodstream is only about a month. That means if you feed people lead for about a hundred days, their blood levels go up and up. But then, if you stop, the lead levels in the blood start to drop, such that within about 30 days, their lead levels are cut in half, and in another month, cut in half again, such that by three or so months, your body is able to remove about 90% from your bloodstream.

Now, if you’re chronically exposed to lead, you can have chronically high lead levels in your blood. More than half a million kids in the U.S. have concerningly high lead levels, and “poor people in…politically disempowered communities of color” are at higher risk, regardless of age. But, if you don’t live in those communities, aren’t constantly exposed to lead, why should you care about dietary strategies to lower the lead level in your own blood, if your body is already so good at it? Even if you get exposed to lead here and there, three or four months, and 90% of the lead in your blood is gone.

Ah, but the question is: gone where? More than 90% of “lead [in our body] is stored in [our] bone,” and instead of a few months to get rid of it, how about a few decades? So, even if we moved to some like other planet, and had zero further exposure to external sources of lead, we still have an internal source of lead leaching the toxic heavy metal into our system throughout our life.

But, if it’s mostly just socked away in our skeleton, what’s the big deal? Well, if you were to lose bone, all the trapped lead could come flooding back into your system. For example, when we lose weight, we lose bone, which makes a lot of sense. I mean, heavier people have a heavier skeleton—greater bone mineral density. Their body has to maintain stronger bones to carry around all that extra weight. So, if we lose weight, do the levels of lead in our bloodstream go up as our skeleton downsizes? Unfortunately, yes; but only if we lose a lot of weight. Lose 10 pounds or so, and not much happens; but lose more like 80 pounds, and the lead levels in your blood can rise 250%.

When else can you experience bone loss? Well, osteoporosis, obviously. Women with osteoporosis can lose an average of 3% of their bone mass a year, but even healthy, postmenopausal women without osteoporosis may lose a percentage of their skeleton annually.

So, do the lead levels in women go up when they lose their periods? Apparently so. A study of nearly 3,000 women found “a…significant increase” in lead levels after menopause, “provid[ing] evidence that bone lead is in fact…mobilized into [the] blood. A major implication…is that even low level lead exposure, over a relatively long time, may result in increased body burdens of lead which would be releasable in toxicologically significant amounts during…physiological states [where your bone is in flux].” Not just osteoporosis, but, most seriously, during pregnancy and lactation.

Now, most of the calcium the baby gets comes from “increased maternal…absorption” of dietary calcium. The mother’s gut starts absorbing 60 or 70% more calcium in the second or third trimester to build the baby’s skeleton. That’s why “[w]omen’s dietary calcium requirements are not increased by pregnancy or [breastfeeding].” Your body’s not stupid; when it realizes it needs more calcium, it just absorbs more calcium. Now, when that isn’t enough, you do end up dipping into the calcium stored in your bones—but not a problem. After it’s all over, your body puts the calcium back into your skeleton, such that six months after delivery, your bone mineral density is right back where you started.

That’s why even women who breastfeed for a long time, well past those six months, in pregnancy, after pregnancy, after pregnancy, after pregnancy, end up with no compromise to their bone mineral density later in life—whether measured in their wrists, spine, or hips.

So what if your body makes a withdrawal from the bone bank during pregnancy and lactation, if it ends up just depositing it all back? Because of the lead. When your body dissolves some of your bone to borrow that extra calcium, it releases the lead that’s locked in there at the worst possible moment—right when your baby is most vulnerable. That’s part of “[l]ead’s toxic legacy.”

What can we do about it? We’ll find out, next.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Icons created by Alrigel from The Noun Project

Image credit: Dustin Kirkpatrick. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

The half-life of lead in the bloodstream is only about a month. That means if you feed people lead for about a hundred days, their blood levels go up and up. But then, if you stop, the lead levels in the blood start to drop, such that within about 30 days, their lead levels are cut in half, and in another month, cut in half again, such that by three or so months, your body is able to remove about 90% from your bloodstream.

Now, if you’re chronically exposed to lead, you can have chronically high lead levels in your blood. More than half a million kids in the U.S. have concerningly high lead levels, and “poor people in…politically disempowered communities of color” are at higher risk, regardless of age. But, if you don’t live in those communities, aren’t constantly exposed to lead, why should you care about dietary strategies to lower the lead level in your own blood, if your body is already so good at it? Even if you get exposed to lead here and there, three or four months, and 90% of the lead in your blood is gone.

Ah, but the question is: gone where? More than 90% of “lead [in our body] is stored in [our] bone,” and instead of a few months to get rid of it, how about a few decades? So, even if we moved to some like other planet, and had zero further exposure to external sources of lead, we still have an internal source of lead leaching the toxic heavy metal into our system throughout our life.

But, if it’s mostly just socked away in our skeleton, what’s the big deal? Well, if you were to lose bone, all the trapped lead could come flooding back into your system. For example, when we lose weight, we lose bone, which makes a lot of sense. I mean, heavier people have a heavier skeleton—greater bone mineral density. Their body has to maintain stronger bones to carry around all that extra weight. So, if we lose weight, do the levels of lead in our bloodstream go up as our skeleton downsizes? Unfortunately, yes; but only if we lose a lot of weight. Lose 10 pounds or so, and not much happens; but lose more like 80 pounds, and the lead levels in your blood can rise 250%.

When else can you experience bone loss? Well, osteoporosis, obviously. Women with osteoporosis can lose an average of 3% of their bone mass a year, but even healthy, postmenopausal women without osteoporosis may lose a percentage of their skeleton annually.

So, do the lead levels in women go up when they lose their periods? Apparently so. A study of nearly 3,000 women found “a…significant increase” in lead levels after menopause, “provid[ing] evidence that bone lead is in fact…mobilized into [the] blood. A major implication…is that even low level lead exposure, over a relatively long time, may result in increased body burdens of lead which would be releasable in toxicologically significant amounts during…physiological states [where your bone is in flux].” Not just osteoporosis, but, most seriously, during pregnancy and lactation.

Now, most of the calcium the baby gets comes from “increased maternal…absorption” of dietary calcium. The mother’s gut starts absorbing 60 or 70% more calcium in the second or third trimester to build the baby’s skeleton. That’s why “[w]omen’s dietary calcium requirements are not increased by pregnancy or [breastfeeding].” Your body’s not stupid; when it realizes it needs more calcium, it just absorbs more calcium. Now, when that isn’t enough, you do end up dipping into the calcium stored in your bones—but not a problem. After it’s all over, your body puts the calcium back into your skeleton, such that six months after delivery, your bone mineral density is right back where you started.

That’s why even women who breastfeed for a long time, well past those six months, in pregnancy, after pregnancy, after pregnancy, after pregnancy, end up with no compromise to their bone mineral density later in life—whether measured in their wrists, spine, or hips.

So what if your body makes a withdrawal from the bone bank during pregnancy and lactation, if it ends up just depositing it all back? Because of the lead. When your body dissolves some of your bone to borrow that extra calcium, it releases the lead that’s locked in there at the worst possible moment—right when your baby is most vulnerable. That’s part of “[l]ead’s toxic legacy.”

What can we do about it? We’ll find out, next.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Icons created by Alrigel from The Noun Project

Image credit: Dustin Kirkpatrick. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

113 responses to “The Rise in Blood Lead Levels at Pregnancy & Menopause

On NutritionFacts.org, you'll find a vibrant community of nutrition enthusiasts, health professionals, and many knowledgeable users seeking to discover the healthiest diet to eat for themselves and their families. As always, our goal is to foster conversations that are insightful, engaging, and most of all, helpful – from the nutrition beginners to the experts in our community.

To do this we need your help, so here are some basic guidelines to get you started.

The Short List

To help maintain and foster a welcoming atmosphere in our comments, please refrain from rude comments, name-calling, and responding to posts that break the rules (see our full Community Guidelines for more details). We will remove any posts in violation of our rules when we see it, which will, unfortunately, include any nicer comments that may have been made in response.

Be respectful and help out our staff and volunteer moderators by actively not replying to comments that are breaking the rules. Instead, please flag or report them by submitting a ticket to our help desk. NutritionFacts.org is made up of an incredible staff and many dedicated volunteers that work hard to ensure that the comments section runs smoothly and we spend a great deal of time reading comments from our community members.

Have a correction or suggestion for video or blog? Please contact us to let us know. Submitting a correction this way will result in a quicker fix than commenting on a thread with a suggestion or correction.

View the Full Community Guidelines

  1. Very interesting subject, but I also have an unrelated question for all you Health Geniuses. How bad is Benadryl/how concerned would you be based on the link between anticholinergic drugs and dementia risk? My doctor told me to take Benadryl for sleep so I took 25-50 mg of it on about two thirds of nights for two years. :( I am in my mid-thirties. Do you think this will cause cognitive decline down the road?

    I’m mostly worried about the Benadryl I already took, but also concerned for the future because I have other issues with Robitussin-type of cough medicines and can’t take them, so Benadryl is the only thing I know of that will help with a bad cough with all-night coughing, which happens to me about twice a year (despite a healthy WFPB diet). And I have a dust allergy. Right now I have a bad cold AND we just moved and stirred up a bunch of dust, but I’m afraid to take Benadryl and this whole thing is just driving me crazy. Thanks!




    0
    1. Andrea, I was interested in your question since I too rely on benedryl for allergy relief (newer meds are expensive and ineffective for me) and for sleep at times. So, I looked it up. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/common-anticholinergic-drugs-like-benadryl-linked-increased-dementia-risk-201501287667 If you scroll down, under the heading ‘What should you do?’ is a hyperlink in red for a downloadable 2 page drug list sorted into three categories. Benedryl is in list 3 (not good), but other meds are mentioned in list 1.
      For me, allergies can trigger angina heart pain so this is a worry. I won’t hesitate to take it when absolutely necessary.




      3
    2. Andrea: I have allergies and sinus problems, so I take Benadryl, but only if I absolutely have to. I have read reports that Benadryl increases one’s cataract risk. For nighttime cough I take a product that has wild-cherry bark and it is very effective for me.




      4
      1. As we see from the first three comments today , people attempting a whole food strictly plant based diet have horrendous health problems . Most evidence suggest a vegetarian lifestyle to be superior .




        3
        1. buster, I don’t see where you got the idea that Andrea, George and I suffer ‘horrendous’ health problems. To me that is very presumptious on your part. Speaking only for myself, I enjoy swimming two miles per week during winter months, (daily in summer), and hiking hills every day in all seasons. I am the doctor’s office poster child for good health, which I might add, took a noticable turn for the good once I eliminated dairy products from my diet and went totally wfpb nearly 3 years ago. I wouldnt touch dairy products today if you paid me.. or any animal products. I have not enjoyed such a good feeling of well-being in my life as I do now. Heartfelt thanks to Dr Greger, NF volunteers, and all the gracious contributors to this forum that have shared their wisdom and experience. Thank you all




          32
          1. Oh ok so your diet is simple whole foods . When that is not adequate ………….drugs .

            Your diet is not to different than mine , most studies like the China study was done on people eating a minimal amounts of animal products , but not necessarily whole foods . It is unclear if the small amounts of animal protein was a benefit or not .




            1
            1. I doubt if the people observed in the China study or the Okinawans and Japanese eating traditional diets in 1949 and 1950 were eating many supermarket or other highly processed foods. Probably the boiled or steamed white rice and noodles eaten in many parts of China and Japan were the most processed. They are (minimally) processed but I suspect that overall their diets would have likely been far closer to WFPB diets than the diets eaten today in those countries, or the Western diets eaten at that time..

              Campbell says he assumes of the China study that, since health benefits were observed to increase as animal foods decreased, this increase would have been sustained if animal foods declined to zero. However, like you, I think that is still unclear.




              2
        2. Hahaha :) I can’t say I ever thought of my *dust allergy* as a “horrendous health problem.” I stand corrected :)

          I guess I did also mention getting two bad colds a year … I have little kids at home, most mothers of little kids get a few colds. Actually, before I started eating so many plants, I got more like six colds a year. I also don’t need Benadryl for sleep anymore. My residual attachment to taking it occasionally is only because it comes in handy in cases of nighttime coughing and exposure to large amounts of dust.




          14
          1. Andrea – I think Buster is ridiculously funny as well :-). I hardly see a cold and a dust allergy to be a “horrendous health issue”. Members of my family have succumbed to cancer – THAT is horrendous. Both a cold and a dust allergy is the immune system dealing with the offending particle/virus. It’s the body doing what it’s supposed to do and one just simply must move through it.

            As for the benadryl issue, I have clinical professional experience in traumatic brain injury. Our Medical Director would not allow our patients to take Benadryl (which is 25mgs diphenhydramine which you can buy generically) because of its cognitive dampening effects so he prescribed other night time sleep aids for our patients that had sleep difficulties. None of which would be appropriate for your needs. But the cognitive dampening effects are temporary and stop when you stop taking the drug.

            For myself, when I have a bad, lingering cold with cough (which has not happened since I went WFPB, btw) I take Nyquil at night. Nyquil has 25mgs diphenhydramine – Benadryl – in it as a part of its formulary. I take it just long enough to get some good sleep to help me get through the cold. And i don’t worry about it. I have a friend who takes benadryl every night for sleep. That I would not ever do. But it doesn’t seem to bother her. I, personally don’t think benadryl upon occasion is something to worry about. A side note to mention is that it’s important to read labels. Tylenol PM, which people take for sleep, has 25mgs diphenhydramine in it. It’s really important to know and understand what one is taking. :-)

            For general sleep, if I need something, I enjoy Schiff Melatonin Ultra. It has 3 mgs melatonin, L-theonine, GABA, chamomile and valerian, all of which help with sleep. Since I’m a light weight I take 1/2 of the pill. I go off to dreamland and wake in the morning rested and refreshed. I don’t think this will help with coughing and sinus stuffiness of a cold but I thought I’d just share this with you.




            12
            1. One dose of Benadryl is safe and three doses could cause liver damage . What does daily consumption of it do taking it three years straight ? That is totally off the label and no one knows for sure . There are deaths associated with overdoses of cough medicines .
              A glass of milk with a piece of melba toast and 2 teaspoons of honey will help anyone from 5 to 95 find the sleep they need .
              The milk supplies quality easy to digest protein plus it’s proven to relieve asthma symptoms and according to a bee keeper at the farmers market honey has an ideal ratio of fructose and glucose to support the liver . Helps with dry mouth as well .If you can’t digest milk consider making yogurt and just eat yogurt and honey and toast . According to Dr. Greger and I quote ” people eating yogurt live longer than people that don’t “




              2
              1. Yes it is a well known fact peoples who eat yogurt tend to be safer drivers and never ever die in bar fights.So if one wants to live longer it is clear one must eat yogurt :)




                6
              2. Buster You have told us that you are employed to promote a dairy company’s products. You recommend milk to aid sleep. naturally. Do you have any evidence for this? Apparently mother’s nighttime milk helps babies to sleep but it’s not widely available to the rest of us. Mind you, I sleep like a baby anyway.




                5
                1. I doubt that there is any studies on it that you would accept as proof . What surprised me was how 3 people who are knowable about nutrition would go to a doctor or over the counter product so readily without investigating other alternatives .
                  As far as alternatives to cow milk , hemp milk looks promising , either homemade or one without additives might also work .




                  2
        3. Hey Buster, All the people I know that eat saturated fat (including coconut oil), meat, eggs, and dairy products are all sick with various diseases including clogged arteries, type 2 diabetes, overweight, arthritis, and even declining mental issues. When they eliminate the saturated fat, meat, eggs and dairy and any other animal products, they all get better and reverse their disease.




          13
            1. Those people LIED about their low cholesterol and low fat diet. And if they did that not, it not the low cholesterol or low fat it, probably low Vitamin B 12 deficiency. The Farmingham study of 500,000 people followed over 35 year period showed that NO ONE with cholesterol lever under 150mg/dl EVER HAD A HEART ATTACK.
              Presently all research indicate Alzheimer is caused by Beta Amyloid plaque which is linked to
              ApoE transporter;the LDL cholesterol transporter in the brain and dysfunction of the TREM2 receptor in Microglial cells.
              People with the ApoE4 mutation has 3X increased risk for Alzheimer; largest population of people with mutation founded in Nigeria. Yet there is very little Alzheimer in Nigeria due to low cholesterol diet.
              But in the USA, large population of people with Alzheimer, due to high cholesterol diet….Good example Epigenetic “trumps” mutated “bad” gene.!!!




              11
              1. From what I’ve read, autopsies of people with Alzheimer’s ALL show they had very LOW cholesterol!!
                The brain needs cholesterol to function properly!




                0
                1. Well vegans who assumedly eat the least amount of cholesterol and animal fats do not by population sample study like the seventh day Adventists study show any increased level of Alzheimers than any other grouping of peoples.
                  Some disease processes cause a unnaturally low level of cholesterol to exist. Point being the alzheimers may be causing the low cholesterol level reading not the other way around. We just don’t really know. Some other studies show higher consumptive cholesterol levels long term in living patients. More studies show the latter. Probably high cholesterol levels long term are related to Alzheimers development we can safely say..

                  Non meat eaters may show low B-12 levels and have a problem with cognitive function related to that. But with supplemented vegan foods like soy and almond milk and education that is now relatively rare. Meat eaters can and do have these lower levels as well. I think Israel may have a consumptive law in place for B-12 like we do with cows milk and Vit D. Some advocate for such a law in the US due to widespread B-12 deficiency ..




                  3
                  1. Just wanted to make a tiny correction to the phrase “vegans who eat the least amounts of cholesterol and animal fats,” vegans eat no animal products ever, you might have meant vegetarians but veganism isnt just diet.




                    0
                2. Alzheimer’s lowers blood cholesterol levels.

                  “Cholesterol levels in men with dementia and, in particular, those with Alzheimer disease had declined at least 15 years before the diagnosis and remained lower than cholesterol levels in men without dementia throughout that period. The difference in slopes was robust to adjustment for potential confounding factors, including vascular risk factors, weight change, alcohol intake, and use of lipid-lowering agents.”
                  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17210816

                  Trauma also lowers cholesterol levels. Death is pretty traumatic.

                  “Hypocholesterolemia is an important observation following trauma. In a study of critically ill trauma patients, mean cholesterol levels were significantly lower (119 ± 44 mg/dl) than expected values (201 ± 17 mg/dl). In patients who died, final cholesterol levels fell by 33% versus a 28% increase in survivors. Cholesterol levels were also adversely affected by infection or organ system dysfunction.”
                  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC374382/

                  Alzheimer’s and traumatic events like death lower cholesterol. Infections and various diseases also cause cholesterol to decline The cholesterol crackpots attempt to misrepresent the evidence to try and persuade people that low cholesterol increases risk for Alzheimer’s, disease and mortality when the opposite is true.

                  It is not surprising that dead people who had Alzheimer’s had low cholesterol levels. The dead people had low cholesterol because they had Alzheimer’s and suffered a traumatic event. Not the other way around.




                  5
                3. Connie, our bodies create cholesterol, we are not meant to ingest cholesterol and in doing so, it causes heart disease. A WFPB diet contains all the fats anyone would ever need and the proper fats at that.




                  3
            2. I hope everyone notices that Jerry Lewis – who often sites his family who have had this devastation of heart attack, paralysis, and AD – never shares the medical reason why his family member had the heart attack. It could have been an arrhythmia, faulty valve, A-fib or another problem that caused his family’s tragic heart attack. And, often, one has a heart attack and the cause is not ever known unless autopsy is performed. JL mistakes correlation for causation which is a #1 mistake in science. But he’s too ignorant of how science is performed to know this and take it into consideration of his comments.
              As for Alzheimers disease – AD is not differentiated from other dementias until autopsy also. Physicians often diagnose AD as a catch-all umbrella diagnoses when dementia is clearly present. But the plaques and tangles and heavy metal deposits cannot be seen until autopsy after death. Only then is a clinical AD diagnoses made.
              As Science knows, the cause of AD is not clearly known or understood. The correlation of possible low cholesterol is hypothetical and is far from proven. Correlation is not causation and certainly isn’t proof. Interestingly, some of the newer research is correlating systemic inflammation in the elderly with AD. It is also now hypothesized that bacteria that has somehow made its way into the brain is the instigator of the plaques that are forming as a defense by the brain against invading bacteria. A direct passage of bacteria into the brain can be via the nasal passageways as well as from the mouth. Making sure one cleans their teeth and mouth is becoming more and more recognized as very important in preventative health. We already know that health of the mouth can contribute to whether or not one develops cardiovascular disease. Brushing and flossing and care of the mouth is becoming a huge area of research as to its role in these two horrible disease events: AD and cardiovascular disease. And I apologize for being a little crass here, . .but wash your hands before cleaning your nose. (probably a good idea to wash your hands often throughout the day).
              If anyone is interested one can read this 2017 science correlating the role of the immune system with AD (and please note that I mentioned correlation – not causation, like JL likes to do. He really is bereft of scientific training and background; a real idiot).
              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29275160




              10
              1. RGB, Thanks for an excellent post. A lot of good information. And a good reminder about the importance of dental cleanliness! I had heard about the impact on CVD, but hadn’t heard much on the AD aspect,.but it does sound like a reasonable hypothesis.




                5
            3. Jerry

              Eating a low fat diet that is high in junk foods and sugar is unhealthy. Nobody disputes that. However, the idea that healthy low fat diets like the traditional Okinawan and Japanese diets promote heart disease, Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s has no credible evidence to support it. As far as I can tell, that is just wishful thinking by the saturated fat cranks whose web sites clog the internet.

              As for low cholesterol, both heart attacks and Alzheimer’s disease appear to lower cholesterol.

              “Both total cholesterol and low density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) levels decreased significantly (by 9%) in the 24 hours after admission and by 13% and 17% respectively on day 4.”
              https://www.ima.org.il/MedicineIMAJ/viewarticle.aspx?year=2015&month=06&page=370

              “Cholesterol levels in men with dementia and, in particular, those with Alzheimer disease had declined at least 15 years before the diagnosis and remained lower than cholesterol levels in men without dementia throughout that period. The difference in slopes was robust to adjustment for potential confounding factors, including vascular risk factors, weight change, alcohol intake, and use of lipid-lowering agents.”
              https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/793179

              That said, even in older people. higher cholesterol appears to be associated with greater risk for Alzheimer’s, especially in APOE4 carriers
              “In a large population-based sample of older community-dwelling persons with up to 13 y of follow-up, we observed that higher LDL-C and TC concentrations were associated with an increased risk of AD. This result was independent of vascular risk factors and was attenuated after adjustment for APOEε4 carrier status.”
              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28350817




              8
        4. And for more insanity, dogs are now going vegan in California.

          “Limiting them to vegan diets is, of course, is a form of animal cruelty. Thus, in the name of “compassion” and veganism, California libtards are now going to subject innocent animals to cruel forms of dietary deficiencies that promote disease and suffering. It’s all being done, of course, in the name of “peace” and “compassion.” This genius idea was dreamed up — try not to laugh — by a Hollywood screenwriter named Roger Wolfson.”




          3
            1. That is absolutely true Chessie. However in this day and age I have to remind myself at times this is not my grandfathers internet anymore.
              When once there are simple trolls who did such a thing to feed some baser instinct there now exist a veritable army of pros who are paid to do certain things and take certain tacicts on discussion blogs to further their sponsoring parties agenda. There is actually a science of the psychological that they apply to their interactions to produce result. Strategies are employeed. And what appears to be several peoples may indeed be just one who adapts guises to employ means of psychological manipulation. Developing false concensus and such.

              Government does this all the big ones and industry does as well. Dr Greger is establishing quite a name for himself. I am certain he has attracted attention in the industry and there in all likelihood is at least one blogger assigned the task of inputting on his site.




              6
              1. To elaborate a bit. A internet troll drops a comment generate to incite and runs. Rarely ever following up. That is as trolls were are and always will be. They are looking for the excitement not caring a bit about subject matter.

                A person normally engaging in dialogues like on this site.We may discuss basically nuance. Is supplementing to a WFPBD good what is a WFPBD what are best treatments for health problems what are associated benefits of WFPBD and on and on. We discuss the basic nuance of things with a basic premisis accepted.WFPBD is best.

                Now if someone is here versing against the basic premesis and continues on to engage the topic at length, one has to ask why are they here and perhaps not on a keto discussion board.
                They are here as they are a paid corporate sponsor in the discussion. They are paid to do so.
                It is very hard for sites to weed out such peoples. IP addresses can and are made to appear what they are not.

                On the issue of internet neutrality corporate sponsorship allowed for some are say perhaps a million false comments. If not a million at least a few hundred thousand.to voice that eliminating it is a good idea. All made up and found out about. AS those who were voicing against were tech savey and willing to investigate.
                Companies exist that manipulate twitter for a fee to provide false view amount. If you want to appear popular you pay a small fee to accompany to manufacture false views subscriptions and such as it applies on twitter youtube and facebook..
                Be assured that companies exist who are paid to manipulate discussion boards and in house peoples may be employed as well

                So how do we handle such a person. Keep in mind that this person is not a troll but on a payroll. So they have time and resource which we do not.
                I say ignoring them may not suffice.They will not simply go away they are paid to be here and will remain.WE must unfortunately refute what they say continually regularly and consistently.
                WEather channels on their discussion boards……global warming and such they are fighting a continual and on going battle from oil companies sponsored inputters against global warming. they fight it by providing a continual ongoing proof scientificially based against their statements. I can only assume in that specific some of the environmental groups are fighting back by sponsoring their own peoples.
                A industry person appears on their boards they are immediately shot down..

                It seems to work.
                Dr Greger is becoming known of in the meat diary refined foods industry. A counter must be provided or if not the site will become not useable for normal discussion by those of us who believe in this thing of WFPBD.
                That is end goal for them. .
                So we must unfortunately as few of us have the time nor energy refute their unscientific assertations.Even if it seems others may be listening most probably they are not.
                If we want to continue to discuss that is. Dr Gregers videos seem to suffice.to get the word out.




                5
                1. Ron

                  I think the problem is not paid “trolls” – they tend to be relatively rational anyway. It is the army of conspiracy nuts and other crackpots who seem to live only to post as many crazy claims and irrational arguments as they can. There are far more of them and they do it for free. It must be something to do with all those brain health damaging diets they consume.




                  5
                  1. Well it could be. But few realize how thing are on conversational mediums nowadays. I remember years ago having a conversation with someone on line way before Snowden telling him there are red flag words which will incite a actual check of content when written. I was a conspiracy nut..but this is what Snowden in part revealed. We are monitored all of us in this fashion on this medium..
                    Not directly related but to show what appears fiction in this area is often not. Corporations and such do inspire such activity on sites like this. Go to Reader supported news, and read their explanatory notes on posting. It mentions this directly. Political sites are the worst. On that site the majority of the posts back during the election were from paid sponsors.It states that as to why they have a new log in procedure. Feel free Reader Supported News. I have no association with them.

                    Dr Greger is attracting attention. What is one paid person service to a meat or dairy industry corporation…nothing. The weather underground was virtually inundated by what I saw clearly as paid sponsors at one time though they made no specific public reference to it like reader supported news has.
                    The tact is as you present refute refute refute with science science science. So kudos to you.
                    But do not imagine it is not happening.

                    If I ran a site and wanted to check a person I would simply have someone check the posting houirs. As I read it that is a pretty sure tell. Few real posters post only from work or just from home hours as media is everywhere nowadays. But peoples are not paid for all hours service. A paid person is on the clock for so many hours. Or the service pays for so many hours not all day and night.
                    A tip off if it is but one person assigned….checking to see if the hours posting are relatively the same. Typically a operative will be assigned several sites but they must visit each site each working day. So the hours are a bit limited since they are on payroll. They do not do this on their off time just when working. I think most for accountability purposes do maintain a single identity. Perhaps multiple single identities to show concensus but one operative does not take anothers name.
                    So a tell will be usually consistant hours of operation by name recognition. That could vary if the target site is considered of great importance such as a political site. There may be multiple operatives and sophisticated means of infiltration and domination of the site.

                    One site out of russia. a media site was inundated by antisemetic rants of multiple operatives. Of course by my read that was a governmental operation and thus sophisticated and coordinated by multiples. Their US counterpart in Russia was likely suffering some similar sort of attack. So it can vary. The choice of anti-Semitism was probably a result of psychological consult.

                    I am certain Dr Greger is not the subject of any governmental operation. But dairy or meat…why would they not.
                    Do you know the meat industry now has their own you tube channel? Overt not covert. Total propaganda on it, good for a laugh.
                    .
                    I wish it were just unbalanced peoples. Sports sites and such tend to get a lot of those.Or the fringe sites. I would not expect they would come here with regularity. Why would they?
                    Many sites exist where loons can howl away. And loons howl away at all hours of the day and night Do they not..is that not a characteristic of the unbalanced. They have not friends they have not holidays.. Paid operatives do not appear when they are not on the clock..

                    But as mentioned the tact is as you are doing. The weather underground is a very successful example of fighting this thing. How they manage it I do not know..Do they pay those who refute or are they volunteers I don’t know. They cannot be allowed to go unchallenged with their nonsense. I know that.
                    .
                    Things have changed. Corporations sponsored probably at least a million false comments just a little while ago to the FCC supporting removing of net neutrality. They were real comments computer generated but someone wrote them. With real names and addresses attached to them. For a fee one can buy hits to a web site to make it appear popular and or subscriptions. This is openly known now.

                    So perhaps you are right. RSN was pretty much devolved from it. They are a shadow of what they once were, I also have no association with them nor am I selling a thing.But never say never you may be right.
                    It matters not you are doing the right thing to deconstruct it or them.

                    Personal opinion all of course and not meant to refer to any particular person on this board at the present time. I have been doing this conversation thing for a while and have done it internationally as well. Not being particularly stupid I tend to pick up on things I do with regularity over a few years or so.




                    3
            2. Chessie,
              The problem is that trolls frequently dispense incorrect information that could actually damage the health of unsuspecting people who are reading Dr. Greger’s forum. Is that acceptable to you? It is not to me. It perpetuates things like supposed controversy on fish or coconut oil, for example.




              6
              1. If one wants to find actual loons who no one really pays attention to I suggest going to You tubes comment section on any one of doctor Gregers videos.
                You tubers browse and those who do that all the time some of them are just trolling or are unbalanced.But really no one goes to you tube to read the comments.
                People interested in things will go to the home site and read things to find out what this new thing is all about. So you get a different audience on a actual internet site than a comment section on you tube. Some will watch the videos and then read the comments to find out more.

                I often will go to sites to find out more. I just came from reading a comment here on this board in one of the dated videos that linked to a study showing soy not fighting prostate cancer but actually causing it. Seemed very odd that. In discussion of the topic on that site board(a cancer discussion board) one finds the study referenced was faulted and a fractional amount way below normal consumptive rates of soy was used. The study was obviously faulted and probably sponsored by someone with agenda. I then save having to spend hours going through the study itself. No one is hacking that cancer sites discussion board. A quick look at the comments shows me that.

                So I serve as example peoples do read discussion for elaborations on subjects. They do not go to youtube discussion boards on particular videos for elaboration. That would be silly they are obviously filled with trolls.
                Keep in mind those offering contrary opinion are not necessarily trolls. And such activity as a paid sponsor is not displaying trolling. Trolling is what we find on you tube comment section boards if one wants a good example.

                We do not understand the range and scope of dairy and meat. New Mexico is not a big big cattle state. Some but not much of their GDP is related to that. Yet one will find a political arm of the meat industry that employees ten or so full time employees in Albuquerque which is not even the legislative site, Santa Fe is. So it is obvious they are not just doing lobbying. Big Tobacco in its hayday in America did not come close to matching Big meat and dairy. Think phrases like you hit like a vegetarian spoken by Arnold S to Sylvester Stallone in one recent movie just was part of some writers dialogue…think again. ARnold S is now pretty much vegan and Sylvester S is friends with him and likely has much input on the script writing as that is what he does. So how did it get there this slam…the industry pays for it the same way they pay to have a chevy used on a movie scene as opposed to a audi. All your major talk shows receive similar sponsorship for what amounts to product display and many of your TV shows Netflix shows and all else. Big meat and dairy are everywhere. The production companies agents will make arrangements for pay to include these things. If you want to sell a thing that causes harm suffering and eventual death you have to take means to protect it and sell it.

                Point being yes we cannot should not just let what appears like trolls go unanswered. We must vehemently fight them with science.
                That advice sufficed…. ignore the troll they will just go away… when sponsors were not infiltrating sites with intention which started some time after 2000.I would guess in a concerted manner by 2006 or so.

                It is typical that thinking.It is a ingrained way of thinking that pervades the internet as it is its history…do not feed the trolls….but no longer works.
                Entire sites have become unusable due to such influence. I can name some of them.Weather underground the weather channel are still being hit by big oil operatives continually. But they fight them away also continually and as such the sites for discussion continue to be valid sources for information. Both would be useless if they had not engaged this fight several years ago. Oil propaganda would be all it would be.

                Wikipedia per example of their large reach the meat industry….Look to a specific section on animal waste from factory farms….read it…the industry wrote it. This industry is large large large and their tentacles are everywhere far bigger even than big oil. Before being targeted that article probably said a lot of real things. Now it is overt propaganda.
                Did you know pig waste cattle feedlot waste…all that is just fertilizer put to good use….and on and on

                They pay attention to detail and have resources beyond our understanding. Dr Gregers site may have 20 peoples working in association. Every city in the southwest has like numbers employed to the inverse. Think about who you are up against.And conduct youself accordingly.
                They control most legislatures and influence virtually all your media to include entertainment media not just the news.
                As a site becomes more popular and poses a threat there will be responses. And big meat and dairy are large large and powerful opponants.
                There are likely political arms of them in every city of size in the southwest, certainly in cities elsewhere Washington New York and other places like Chicago where the industry works.




                3
          1. Mr Lewis,

            This is a simple strawman’s argument. Subjecting your pets to a vegan diet (especially our carnivorous feline friends!) is of course inhumane (which the vast majority of us would agree) and I too am disturbed, but the fact that the stubborn individuals who did this also happen to be vegans Is tangential to what we are discussing, the benefits of a plant-based diet IN humans. Some meat-eaters are abusive. Do I use this as an argument against being a meat eater? No, let’s talk about the science here!

            Proving a point that is tangential to the main point we are discussing is a distraction. Just look up “strawman’s argument”. Let’s agree that animal cruelty is despicable but why don’t we keep our focus on the main arguments on the table here.




            6
            1. My little dogs favorite food is sweet potatoes. She will do almost anything to get at them.
              I abuse her regularly as I eat them regularly and cannot resist her begging.
              Please do not turn me in to the authorities ;)

              Cats need a certain amino acid found in meat(is it taurine). It may be found in vegetarian manufactured source but is a bit expensive.Dogs have no such requirement. .




              5
              1. Hi Ron, not sure what comment lead to the dog/cat food thing, I didn’t read them all yet, but sweet potatoes are healthy for dogs and cats from my understanding, of course you probably already know that.
                I really just wanted to add onto the veg cat food thing. I believe taurine is added to even meat based cat foods, but from what I’ve read, the concern of putting a cat on a veg diet is over alkalizimg their bodies which can damage their kidneys severely. One vet reccomends if you start one on a veg diet, to regularly get their urine tested weekly for the first year or two and then regularity after that. Very difficult unless someone can afford it and impossible when caring for feral cats.
                Indeed dogs are easy to put on veg diets and it can be dangerous for cats.
                From an animal rights stand point I think the best and most responsible thing to do is to end all breeding, spade/neuter and release ferals, and care for the ones who are here while advocating the above.
                I would also love for there to be more research in veg cat food. Perhaps there is and I just don’t know about it.




                3
                1. yes cats one could find a veg food probably on line, but how healthy it is long term my guess is it is a bit of a unknown. I have not had a cat for five years nor intend to get one. Peoples let them go outside but they kill large numbers of the local birds and such and compete with coyotes for food which are the natural predator for those things in this area. Keeping them just in seems a bit cruel. Better than being killed in a pound so I could see owning one but still makes them suffer I think.

                  My dog is also crazy about goji berries. Which is a bit amusing as they stick to her teeth. Doesn’t seem to bother her in any negative manner. Almonds however she cannot digest and will throw up. I dropped one once and there it was intact a hour later a bit slimier.. I guess to some extend it is that each animal is a experiment of one. Chocolate of course caffeine macademia nuts and some others niacin the vitamin I think is another they never should eat

                  I would only get discarded dogs, that is one from a pound or shelter. I agree we should not reinforce breeding of any animals. Far to many are abused and then discarded. .They drop cats out here where I live as it is rural but near a city. The coyotes make quick work of them.
                  Occasionally dogs as well.Wild ones can be incredibly vicious.

                  Luckily here in America the cheaper dog foods may be the ones with little to no meat in them Meat is a selling point and the more expensive invariably have some meat or fish as the first ingredient. Cheap stuff corn or some other meal is the most predominant with little to no meat.Cheap stuff is better for dogs as they age as well as they have problems with excessive protein as they age..




                  1
                  1. Here are my thoughts on cat “ownership”:
                    I have 4 indoor cats, no more cruel keeping them in than it is to do so with dogs, they go outside with me and on a leash if off the property, they’re 4 of the happiest cats you’ll meet. Cats are domesticated like dogs and need our help, letting them roam outdoors unsupervised is ecologically irresponsible and unnecessary if you make sure your cats are stimulated through toys, attention, climbing structures and allowing them out on a leash or trained to not leave an area supervised. Unless of course you house one whose too accustomed to going outdoors, I.e. a feral who you let inside.
                    I also help take care of a large colony of feral cats who through mine and others’ efforts are all spayed/neutered and released (two of my indoor cats are actually kittens from one of my feral cat friends). Some kittens who were born before the spaying/neutering were able to be found homes and some were just not having it. They rarely hunt because they’re regularly fed but once in a while a couple do get mice :( if I see them hunting I do kindly stop them though.
                    I think this is the best we can do as these animals are now our responsibility because it’s through our greed of ownership and profit that they’re domesticated. I do encourage animal lovers to adopt cats even though it sucks to have to buy non-vegan cat food, but turning our backs on the animals now isn’t going to solve anything. Advocating spay/neuter realease and spaying/neutering all “pets” is our best bet. Humans made the bed they’re forced to lie in so we owe them our best efforts to both care for them and end the perpetual cycle humanely and responsibly through the above mentioned methods.
                    That’s sad to hear that people dump them near you. Harmful to the ecosystem and cruel to the cats. People think they’re helping ferals when they spay/neuter and then TRANSPORT them, but in reality, cats are very loyal to their surroundings and their colonies. They form deep bonds with one another and very intricate colonies with their own set of established rules and they each have their place. It’s really facinsting to see. They suffer in so many ways when transported, it’s beyond heartbreaking… as do many wild animals that people think it’s fine to transport (not referring to rehabilitated but the practice of transporting native wildlife those in sububan areas view as “pests”).

                    Hope I didn’t come off as preachy, I just think it’s a subject that needs more attention and I wanted to share my thoughts. I like the way you think.
                    Oh and one of my cats also loves goji berries! Haha. At least their treats can be all plant based.




                    2
                    1. Hi, Shaylen,

                      We have a feral cat that we trapped and brought indoors because it was so cold one winter we thought she would not survive. She has over the years of being indoors with us become not feral and is a wonderful cat.




                      3
                    2. Makes perfect sense to me.I had a indoor cat for many years but had continual respiratory problems which became acute when I had any respiratory infection. I gave the cat back to its original owner and all the respiratory problems stopped five years or so now.. I am so sensitive to that even if I am around peoples who own cats I can feel it. I found it bad no doc figured that out for me nor even considered it. I had to do so myself. Typical in America as I see it. No money to be made in simply removing exposure to a cat. Much to me made from a respiratory problem of unknown etiology It is like a gold mine health care cost wise. My doc sucked Had to have him as few docs were offered in my health plan. Nice guy but doesn’t have a clue.Never even had his assistant do basic things like tell me my BP or HR whenever I had occasion to see him. .

                      My indoor cat developed a relationship with a outdoor cat that was wild. When I gave the cat back the outdoor cat stopped being around. It had adopted our place and would mark our entrance door on occasion. Though they never really were together. Just seeing each other out a window with my cat hissing in the main. He was consistently there and slept often in a open shed..

                      My dog goes jogging with me about every other day.t live and jog in a forest on trails so I just leash when I see a person.
                      She is tiny but can run circles around me which she often does when playing even when I am running. Owls are
                      my greatest fear for her safety. So I keep her close at all times. Coyotes as well. A close call once in the wilderness I had to run towards the coyote to get her safe..Tonight she will have friends. 2 dogs coming over for a sleep over ;) Dog party on new years eve.




                      0
                    3. Liisa that is so cool to hear! I think that if the cat will go for it, then it’s ideal. I took in my two cats’ mom when she was sick and pregnant and actually let me. I was hoping to keep her as an inside cat and I really tried but she made it abundantly clear that she wanted to be outdoors so she’s now spade and cared for with the rest of the feral colony.




                      1
                    4. Shaylen, we used behavior modification on this cat. For example, when we first brought her indoors, she would hide and not come out to eat if we were around, so we fed her only when she came out and we were around. We put her food back in the fridge if she didn’t come out of hiding when we were around. In this way, just for example, she got used to us.




                      1
                    5. Ron, your allergies sound like they’re pretty severe, but some people I know and I do it now too, use a “furminator” which is just a really good grooming brush and even people with relevant allergies can be around my cats when they’re bathed and “furminated.” Thought I’d mention that for the sake of the topics allergies and cats lol.




                      1
                    6. That’s really cool Liisa. I actually had and have a relationship with that cat and the ferals. I developed it by hanging out with them outside and over time they got used to me and are actually really affectionate. A few still don’t like to be pet but like hanging out.
                      But despite that, she in particular is still very wild. When she was pregnant with her two kittens I adopted, she got sick so she let me take her in. I was trying the behavior thing but was not as clever about it as you. She ended up getting out (not until her kittens were well past nursing) and I tried finding her, she did end up coming back thank God, but is extra cautious when it comes to being taken in. Thankfully they all have a heated shed with blankets, hay, etc. and there’s various other shelters.
                      I’ll keep your story in mind for future reference.

                      To ron (thought I’d mention it here rather than making multiple posts), I wanted to mention that the pet food industry can have very shady practices and ingredients so I wouldn’t necessarily trust the cheapest brands or any run of the mill brands. I watched a video on it by Bite Size Vegan on YouTube (Dr. Greger was actually a guest on her show before) and some of the info absolutely terrified me so I’d say no matter the price or brand, it’s important to learn about the product and company.




                      1
              2. ron, my little dog thoroughly enjoys his baked sweet potatoes and other vegies in a bowl before eating some dog food crunchies. He loves yams, small crunchy cucumbers, bell peppers, peas, chickpeas, watermelon, (rind too), apples, spoonful of overnight oats with ground flax, raw carrots, and much more. He comes running when I prepare vegies for soup. He enjoys terrific health. It would be wise for people to check with their veterinarian to get the ok on a feeding program, and for lists of foods that are NOT safe for dogs to consume.




                1
                1. Vets here at least charge a arm and a leg for about anything. I do check on occasion. I found Sweet potatoes were OK as they are on the package as ingredients of some of the higher end dog foods.
                  Goji berries my vet would likely say…..what exactly is a goji berry. I started small and check to see any effect with that.




                  2
                  1. Our dog likes anything from the broccoli family: broccoli stems, kale stems, the central part of cauliflower, etc. Of course he eats dog food, but these things appear to be of real interest to him–“treats.” As for greens, if it’s not in the brassica family though, forget it–no lettuce, etc. One of our dogs ate half a large butternut squash in cold storage before I found out though. Our current dog also loves watermelon and squash rinds, as well as sweet potato skins.




                    1
                    1. Could be wrong but my guess is things like sweet potatoes goji berries(but not grapes) may be actually good for dogs.

                      Hard for us to say as I see S’s point.Likely who says what is healthy may be who is selling what dog food. We see overt fraud in human food studies I would imagine animal are twice as bad.

                      Had a dog once before I knew grapes were bad. I would include a leftover grape at times. Never more than that.But I found it odd regardless of where I put the grape sometimes in the middle of a big pile of wet greasy globs of dog food mixed with human food, I would find the grape completely licked clean but uneaten in the middle of the otherwise empty bowl.
                      Multiple times I tried that as at the time I did not know grapes were bad. Amazing intuitive knowledge translating to action example.

                      Miss bite size vegan she was a great voice on you tube. Some wanna make a name for himself vegan was slamming her for Patreon and all that. Vegan gains took him to task for that as they were friends but perhaps that had a hand in her going away is my guess..
                      Autistic but many more intelligent people are. I never thought that at all prior to her announcement.
                      Miss her voice, just a tiny shade below Dr Greger by my readin leading people to this thing..




                      1
                    2. Hi, Ron,

                      I wish I could believe that dogs intuit what’s good for them.
                      Unfortunately, our black lab had a grape fest with a whole container of grapes up on our counter one day. He did not have a luxurious time of it, however, as we took him to the vet immediately upon discovery and he went through quite a bit to ensure that he was not affected adversely by that consumption!




                      1
        5. Buster, wow you’re ridiculous. A WFPB dieter says she has allergies (which can actually be a sign of a superior immune system) and you conclude it’s best to be vegetarian? All evidence proves you wrong but since you’ve been so keen on promoting dairy, all you need is a comment about a dust allergy to grossly exaggerate, twist, and use to promote an omnivorous diet.
          I was a vegetarian since the age of 9 and became a vegan later on. I did it for moral reasons and was not yet aware of the health factors so I was astounded at how much better I felt within the first week, and I started off eating a lot of processed foods. I rarely ate eggs as a vegetarian so my main source of animal products was dairy. I was perpetually congested for years and within the first week, it started clearing up and soon I was no longer congested. Digestive issues also corrected themselves and I used to have a lot of those issues like most of America. I also used to regularly get headaches along with most of the population and had even once been hospitalized for severe migraines that weren’t going away. And these are just some of the immediate differences in health I experienced.
          Soon after going vegan I went WFPB (not as strict as some, I use small amounts of oil sometimes, salt in moderation, etc.). I have never been healthier in my life and I literally have not gotten sick since (it’s been years) nor have I had a headache. I almost forgot what it was like to deal with occasional headaches.
          Now you can say this is just based off my experience, but if you’re going to make insane conclusions that a few people taking Benadryl for allergies refutes a plant based diet, then my personal experience could refute your ridiculous claim as well.
          But dust allergies and personal experiences aside, the evidence of a plant based diet being superior and the detrimental effects of eggs and dairy is overwhelming.

          Was it you who disclosed in past colmmenys that you worked for the dairy industry? I gotta say, that is the most typical industry propaganda to ignore all actual evidence and make false claims over something so unrelated and irrelevant as a dust allergy or two. But thank you for demonstrating the way industry “science” works.




          4
          1. Benadryl is a drug and it says on the label if after 5 days no improvement discontinue and see your doctor . So a doctor must have prescribed it if you took it for 3 years . .According to Dr Greger one of the most popular methods for permanent sleep is a doctor’s prescript .
            I also don’t see how my job has anything to do with my comment about Benadryl ?
            As for your comment that you feel so much better not drinking milk . Not all milk is created equal , some farmers use hormone treatments , some use brewery waste products to feed their cows , some use chicken wastes , none of these practices is allowed by our milk producers . When you treat cows in a bio-dynamic or organic way guess what? You can tell the quality difference . Our advertising budget is $0 , we pick up all our sales simply from the quality of our product and repeat customers . I have a binder full of people who have written or emailed us thanking us for the difference we have made for them .
            I am at a total loss to know what industry propaganda I am giving you . There was some discussion a while ago about what foods promote growth in children who are behind in their growth for their age . I might have given you an answer from Dr. Catherine Pound who has researched this extensively , but she is not on any dairy council or a dairy advocate , she is a investigator and researcher for the government .
            You or someone suggested I watch Cowspircy , to get the real low down on the dairy industry . Here is the thing though , Cowspircy is very inaccurate , they took facts from the California dairy industry and applied that to all the industry across North America , cows in a desert like area like that has to use irrigation to grow grass and grain crops , which makes it very misleading . They didn’t go to Wisconsin did they . They also went to the worst farms they could find . If I wanted to do a doc about cats and how harmful they are I wouldn’t start at your place would I , no there are lots of really sorry looking sites I could go to .




            1
              1. No point in asking, Liisa, people in the animal agriculture industry are never honest about practices and have no problem blatantly lying to such extreme points that their claims are literally opposite to the truth.




                1
                1. I am trying to point out the cruelty of even what he says is a “good” milk group. It is not good at all, which I’m sure you already know. I’d just like him to admit that when he eats veal, he’s eating the baby torn away from its pathetic mother just so he can sell the mother’s milk while she mourns the child she does not have any more. Oh, well, it’s too hard for him to admit since he’s in the killing industry–right, Buster? I understand–you have to make your living.




                  1
                  1. Totally agree Liisa. My point was only that he’ll never admit it and likely try to perversely twist it with typical industry propaganda such as “cows need to be milked,” “they don’t suffer,” etc.




                    0
            1. Buster, your comment was NOT about Benadryl! Once more you’re trying to twist things… Your comment was a desperate and irrational argument against a plant based diet because of 3 people who use Benadryl for allergies. And it followed suit to your previous comments of promoting the animal products which you have professional interest in.
              You’re financially invested in a product which you claim does not have an advertising budget, so it makes sense you’d spend your time promoting it on message boards, etc. And despite all evidence to the contrary, you make baseless claims about the “unique” product you’re selling without having any authority on the subject other than bias-producing financial interests. And not only that, but you disregard and even try to undermine the best available evidence to which there are overwhelming amounts.

              Cowspiracy is incrediby accurate and your industry has, since the beginning, tried to debunk it with no success. But one doesn’t need to look to Cowspiracy, it is just a good source of collected info. There is a plethora of published evidence which concludes that animal agriculture is in so many ways, the single most detrimental thing to our planet from methane to land use to water use to crops to environmental hazards in the form of wastes to deforestation and so on.
              Further more, cows require the same amount of water and food no matter which state they’re from!
              No one with a mild sense of wisdom would disregard scientific research off the word of those who depend on the promotion of the product they’re defending. But you have to travel the web with propaganda because you can’t count on science to promote you, in fact, science is an enemy to your buisiness as has clearly been shown and continues to show.

              Cats are not harmful, humans are and it is humans who continue to breed and not spay/neuter and let their cats roam outside unsupervised or (and very commonly) abandon them.
              I promote the end of breeding for pets, spaying/neutering domesticated animals, and spay/neuter release of ferals and that people only let their cats out supervised or on a leash much like dogs. You on the other hand are promoting and fighting to sustain and grow one of the most unsustainable and damaging practices and one of the cruelest industries in history.

              As your intent seems to be solely manipulating for personal gain, I’d suggest going for the lower hanging fruit – you’re wasting your time.




              2
              1. Cats kill 3.7 billion song birds in the United States every year and billions more mammals every year according to USA today , CBC.CA NEWS concurs that is an accurate figure .Your statement that cats are not harmful is silly .
                Your statement that cows require the same amount of water no matter what state they are from , is very misleading . The fodder grown in a desert like California would need to be irrigated , that is how they got all those incredible water numbers from .
                According to NASA cows contribute 15.1 % of global methane afar cry from non peer reviewed claim of Cowspircy of 51% . The movie also did not include any environmental impact from the actual manufacture of the car, truck ,bus ,airplanes or ships . Actually I believe they only included what cars burn , but I could be mistaken there . One other thing , I had said on another forum that there has always been a lot of herbivores in North America almost the same number that we have today , I was corrected as someone had figures that showed before Europeans there were even a lot more than today . So what changed? Clearly it is fossil fuels .
                The movie also claimed that land was being cleared in south America to graze cattle , that is false as land is being cleared to grow more corn and soy , not to make pastures . In those land clearings they included the land that was being cleared in Indonesia . Land is not being cleared there for cattle at all but to grow more palm oil . Cowspircy is a total fake the gullible are lining up to take it all in . Meanwhile this is a huge win for the oil companies , the executives they must be doing cartwheels and high fives , patting each other on the back .




                1
                1. There’s a big difference between comparatively little cats eating to survive and (larger) human beings killing baby boy calves just in order to drink milk from another species when they don’t have to drink that milk to survive. Not only that, milk is associated with a host of health problems.




                  2
                  1. Most bull calves are raised to about 650 lb , never heard of anyone killing a bull calf to get milk , just does not work like that .
                    When calves are taken away from a cow , it does cause a cow stress , but very little stress to the calf . If you leave a calf on a cow the cow will wean her calf at some point which causes a great deal of stress on the calf and not much on the cow . There is no cruelty involved it simply is the way nature is .




                    1
                    1. Farmers kill the bull calves so they can get the milk from the mother instead of the calf getting it. You really don’t understand that?




                      2
                    2. Omg buster, you are such a blatant liar!!!! Cows make milk for the same reason every other animal does, for their babies! In order for any female to produce milk, she must first become pregnant. To do this, the females are sexually violated and essentially raped by either a farmer shoving his arm up her vagina or shoving a device up her vagina to forcefully impregnate her. There is even a term used for the racks often used to restrain them within the industry: “rape rack.”

                      The smaller amount of males used for the industry must also be sexually violated to obtain seman.

                      Each time the mother becomes pregnant, she then has her babies ripped away from her and sent to veal concentration camps and soon after that, the slaughter house. Or if she gives birth to a female which the industry later uses in the same way they do her mother, she is sent into isolation, separated from her mother and unallowed to nurse so that she does not consume your profit.
                      The dairy industry IS the veal industry.
                      The mothers and babies cry horrifically over their loss, mother cows have been known to try to hide their babies on the “farmers” and have even tried to escape with them. Babies cry for their mothers while in their tiny veal crates until eventually sent to slaughter houses.

                      Eventually, after major damage to her body from routine enforced pregnancies, constant milking, and a life of horrific abuse and unbearable emotional trauma, the mother stops producing enough milk to turn a profit and is then sent to the slaughter house.

                      There is nothing NATURAL about it, it is PERVERSLEY unnatural and it is not just stress, it is emotional pain, heartbreak, terror, loneliness, etc. Mother and baby cows share intense bonds and you rip them away from one another. The baby is unnallowed to have even the comfort of the presence of his or her mother. And this is just the emotional torture, not even talking about the horrific physical torture that occurs.

                      You speak of mothers and babies as insentient objects and the products you use them for. No different than the way slave owners, etc. did with whatever race they were disregarding and exploiting. There have been numerous Jewish survivors who have compared animal agriculture to the Holocaust.

                      You can count on cows not being able to speak, or at least in a language you’d ever allow yourself to understand, but not those of us with active minds and souls who will always speak for them. Your propaganda is disgusting in every perceivable way… I don’t know how you sleep at night but wouldn’t brag about the fact that you can.

                      This is exactly why I mentioned it was pointless to suggest you comment on any of these facts as I knew whatever you spewed out would be the typical outright perverse lies you in the industry must promote.




                      1
                    3. He understands perfectly, it’s somply his job to lie.

                      I also want to add that anyone who would try to make giant claims based off of 3 people taking allergy meds should not be taken seriously in any regard and should be revealed as desperately trying to advocate their interest… still laughing about that one.




                      0
                2. No buster, what’s silly is your blatant disregard to what I ACTUALLY said. Once more, cats are not harmful… humans breeding cats then abandoning them or letting them roam freely out doors is what is harmful. Dogs too would kill a lot of wildlife if people let them roam freely or routinely abandoned them as they do cats. Ergo, the problem is not the cat, the ACTUAL problem is HUMAN BEHAVIOR which cats are at the mercy of. The methods I previously mentioned is what would resolve the issue and those methods address the cause, human behavior.

                  Cows, no matter where they’re from, require huge amounts of water and food to survive and more crops than any one person could eat. There are various published papers in the scientific community which give the incredible numbers of how much water, crops, and land use it takes for dairy, meat, and the animal agriculture industry as a whole. It’s been published that the U.S alone could feed millions of people with the crops used for the farmed animals in this country alone. I have the papers and exact numbers but am unable to share them as I’m not home or on my computer.
                  In California, their drought problem could be solved with the end of dairy farming, yet due to industry interests such as yours, people are instead told to take shorter showers, etc.
                  And if you don’t think that water usage in one state or place does not effect the entire ecosystem, you’re gravely mistaken and I have various documentaries I’d reccomend to you if I thought you actually cared enough to watch them. To others reading, HOME is one that immediately comes to mind.

                  Back to cowspiracy, you seem to think these facts live and die with that documentary. Again, there are various publications on the subject of cows and methane, water/crops/land use, etc.

                  And your statements about Cowspiracy are purposefully misleading!
                  Land is cleared to grow corn and soy FOR cows!! It takes approximately 16lbs of crops to produce just one 1lb of “beef.” And you failed to point out that THE MAJORITY OF SOY IS GROWN FOR ANIMAL AGRICULTURE. How typical of someone in the industry you’re in to try to sneak a veil of smoke over that…

                  The truth is is that everything you’re saying is what you’re TRAINED to say by the industry. Not only does your industry cause horrific devastation to the planet, world hunger, and a plethora of diseases, but you are also in the buisiness of torture and slavery and murder. You should be deeply ashamed to say the absolute least.

                  And how disgusting how you try with false concern to use another epidemic to mask the one you make your money off of… Yes, palm oil is a huge epidemic and in places like Indonesia, it is the leading cause of mass deforestation among other horrific cruelty including violations of both human and animal rights. We should all be boycotting palm oil (.its unnecessary and very unhealthy as well), but globally the leading cause of deforestation is animal agriculture.

                  One epidemic does NOT cancel out another! For that matter, palm oil derivatives are used in the majority of dairy products.

                  The funny thing is that people don’t even necessarily need the numbers to get how much land and resources are used for “cattle.” Just a tiny bit of common sense. All they’d have to do is take a few seconds to think about how many cow products are sold and then realize how many must be continually bred and stored and used, then think about how much more water a cow needs and how much more food each cow needs compared to ourselves. The clincher is, it’s basic common sense!




                  2
                  1. Looking over your reply to see if there was anyplace we agreed on facts and there were a couple .You wrote in large type “majority of soy is grown for animal agriculture ”
                    This is true , so why did they include it under cattle for when 90% of those beans and corn is used to feed pigs and chickens not cows . In a place like Brazil cows on pasture are the norm . The reason they threw it in there is they had a agenda to make cows look as bad as possible .
                    You admit land clearing in Indonesia has nothing to do with cattle , why did they include that in the video?
                    You claim it takes 16 pounds of feed to make one pound of beef……………..your off by ten pounds , it takes 6 lb to make 1 according to Beef Cattle Research Council .
                    Wisely you did not mention water usage . Cowspircy calculated 5000 gallons of water to make 1 pound of beef…….it takes 8 gallons .
                    A lot of the feed that cows consume is not fit for human consumption , in other words when you grow barley for a premium market like beer a lot of times it will fail to meet their requirements , it may been too wet and sprouted or some other weather spoiled it some way , the same for wheat and oats . In fact a lot of years the majority of grains fall into that category , there is only now the animal market for that product .
                    To Liisa who does not have a reply button under your email said
                    Farmers kill the bull calves so they can get the milk . you don’t understand that?
                    I understand as well as anyone I would guess as I was brought up on a dairy farm and so was my dad and his dad . No bull calves are killed so the farmer can get the milk . Cows easily produce enough milk for marketing and their calf
                    Cows are not raped to get them pregnant as that would not work . Cows must come into heat before they are introduced to the bull or artificial insemination . It sounds perverted otherwise .




                    1
                    1. My husband, who grew up on a dairy farm, says that all bull calves are sent to the butcher shortly after birth to make veal. Because these young calves are engaging and lovable, that is why my husband will not eat nor touch veal.

                      Virus-free.
                      http://www.avast.com




                      0
    3. Thanks for your great question. It is really hard to know what to do. There is so much conflicting information. And Benadryl is an FDA approved, legal medication, so in theory it should be safe, right? Unfortunately, sometimes we find out things about medications too late.

      The effects of most medications are cumulative. You only took Benadryl regularly for 2 years. I would worry much more if you had taken it longer. I know some nightshift nurses that have been doing that for about 20 years. I can’t say what effects the Benadryl will have on you, but you did stop it. And as Dr. Greger says, the best kept secret in medicine is that the body WANTS to heal and given the right circumstances, it usually will. I don’t know if there has been controlled studies on Benadryl and dementia. There could be correlation but not necessarily causation. People who regularly use Benadryl may have other unhealthy lifestyle behaviors such as smoking which could raise their risk of dementia and other issues. A lot of research is coming out showing that dementia is related very much to diet. Atherosclerosis of the brain. You are doing the best thing you can to prevent that with whole food, plant based eating.
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/alzheimers-and-atherosclerosis-of-the-brain/
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-to-slow-brain-aging-by-two-years/
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/reversing-cognitive-decline/
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/improving-memory-through-diet/

      I’d encourage you to look through nutritionfacts.org and view some of the other material about dementia and cognitive decline. These may be able to be prevented with healthy diet.

      I’m inclined to think that Benadryl on occasion to get you through a bad cough is not likely to cause the cumulative effects of chronic Benadryl use. You could also try a different antihistamine (I have not looked to see if they carry the same risks, I apologize). but there is allegra, zyrtec etc. which might help your allergies and cough. And of course try the nonpharmacolgical interventions such as using a cool mist humidifier, salt water gargles, warm water with honey and lemon.

      I don’t know if you’ve looked into any of Dr. Greger’s information about allergies such as:
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/treating-asthma-with-plants-vs-supplements/
      https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/allergies/

      All the best to you.
      NurseKelly
      NutritionFacts Moderator.




      3
      1. That all makes absolute perfect sense. I would add if I was particularly concerned about dementia, even though I doubt two years of use so described of Benadryl could cause such a thing I wound endeavor to see that things that are known to work against dementia are present in my diet.
        A whole foods plant based diet may contain Crushed flax seeds and it may not. So one would care to add that for the EPA DHA conversion source. One may care to add coffee if one reads up on the negatives associated with coffee but thinks the benefits for cognition outweigh the negatives,,,and on and on.

        What doc is recommending two years of continual Benadryl use….seems odd that. Some very severely affected peoples perhaps may need that but it seems to me that was not the situation. I would reconsider the choice of that doc.
        I have been treated by docs that were in one word horrible. I had a cat allergy 5 or so years ago that two docs misconstrued as COPD based on I am guessing my large lungs compared to normal. I live at altitude and one of my hobbies for many many years was mountain running, I have completed the pikes peak half marathon ten or so times running up to 14k feet I also continue to backpack at altitudes of 11k with a 50 pound pack for weeks each year.
        . A pulmonary specific test is necessary for a diagnosis of COPD following a oral history expressing certain associated symptom. No these dolts based their diagnosis solely on a xray series and little to no verbal history, as COPD was common in their area of practice. Ex Mining town and all that.
        But in rural areas this may be what you get…very very poor health care docs.

        I would reconsider that doc if you have not already.WE trust to much docs some really really suck at it.




        2
    4. Dear Andrea,

      “The body’s production of acetylcholine diminishes with age, so blocking its effects can deliver a double whammy to older people.”

      As stated by Harvard:

      https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/common-anticholinergic-drugs-like-benadryl-linked-increased-dementia-risk-201501287667

      Please, don’t stress and don’t worry about the benadryl you already took. Instead talk to your doctor, because there are alternatives to it.

      I’m going to add some of our videos about allergy:

      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/treating-asthma-with-plants-vs-supplements/

      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/alkylphenol-endocrine-disruptors-and-allergies/

      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/preventing-allergies-in-adulthood/

      Good luck!

      Moderator Adam P.




      2
    5. For sleep in general, have you tried valerian root? It increases gamma waves and helps you fall asleep and sleep deeper and is considered a safe herb.
      I use Solaray (veg capsules) as they’re a brand I trust (they test their products for contaminants and are really transparent when you contact them with questions).
      2 capsules work amazing for me for sleep and sometimes I take one capsule which works really well for anxiety.
      I don’t know too much about Benadryl but as a rule it’s best to avoid regular use of drugs like that if you can help it.
      From my understanding, there are certain foods that help decrease allergies, such as mushrooms – I believe I read about that on worldshealthiestfoods. I think cranberries can help with some allergies but I’m just going by memory and it may just be due to antioxidant content. But they did help me with my psillyium husk allergy once whereas I normally get food poisoning-like symptoms from the stuff.




      1
    1. Konrad, don’t expect an answer here.

      Some health conscious vegan still insists that statin is beneficial in the name of lowering “cholesterol”.

      For Omega-3, you need to be more specific, It’s the DHA/EPA parts of Omega-3.




      1
      1. Jerry omg you just never stop spewing out blatantly wrong information do you?! No matter if you harm anyone with it… truly sickening.
        DHA/EPA do not promote heart health but rather brain health, the omega 3s associated with heart health is the SHORT chain omega-3 ALA.




        2
  2. I ATTENDED A LECTURE ABOUT EATING FOODS THAT ARE GOOD FOR YOU! I WAS TOLD THERE ARE A NUMBER OF FOODS THAT ARE BAD FOR YOU!
    CAN YOU PLEASE ELABORATE ON WHAT ARE THE “FOODS THAT ARE BAD FOR YOU”




    1
      1. But let’s not forget healthy foods now contaminated and compromised by toxins, such as rice heavily contaminated with arsenic, ( https://nutritionfacts.org/video/where-does-the-arsenic-in-rice-mushrooms-and-wine-come-from/ , https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-risky-is-the-arsenic-in-rice/ )

        And more to the point, as far as the subject of this video goes, foods and even superfoods not just contaminated, but deliberately adulterated with lead. Turmeric has pretty much made it to the top of my list as a superfood, a food that now has an impressive set of benefits, validated by an ever expanding set of well-controlled research studies that a number of Dr. Greger’s videos have highlighted. (https://nutritionfacts.org/?fwp_search=turmeric&fwp_content_type=video )

        And because of this, many people for the best of reasons have started increasing the amount of turmeric in their diet, or begun taking it as a supplement to improve their health. Unfortunately, some of these people – perhaps even many of these people – may have instead metaphorically shot themselves in the foot because of the deliberate adulteration of this product with lead chromate, a known poison, to improve (believe it or not) its COLOR ( http://www.astaspice.org/the-american-spice-trade-associations-statement-on-lead-in-turmeric/ See also “Ground Turmeric as a Source of Lead Exposure in the United States” http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0033354917700109 )

        And the problem of adulteration or contamination unfortunately holds true for other superfoods, like green tea ( especially from China), and yes even organic green tea. (https://nutritionfacts.org/video/lead-contamination-of-tea/). Chocolate seems another food to look out for ( https://www.asyousow.org/our-work/environmental-health/toxic-enforcement/lead-and-cadmium-in-food/lead-and-cadmium-in-food-faqs/ )

        If one chooses to include such superfoods as staples in one’s diet, organic may not seem good enough – I look for sources that certify that they test their products for lead and optimally, also that their product meets California Prop 65 limits ( http://www.americanbiosciences.com/product/prop-65/ ) of 0.5 mcg / day for lead.

        Aside from its other toxic effects, lead has proven itself a potent inhibitor of telomerase, and if a food seems heavily enough contaminated can transform an extremely beneficial food into a harmful one. To me becoming an informed consumer, and making discriminating choices based on the latest information becomes ever more essential, even for those eating a whole foods plant based diet.




        9
        1. I suppose finding whole turmeric root might be a way to lower your chances of getting an adulterated product. Perhaps once you find a source, it can be grated and frozen and then doled out as you need it. I would like to try this.




          4
          1. Well, it can get a bit spendy, IF your store carries them (a big IF), though the raw root might seem more bioavailable. ( http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1756464615001991 )

            To get the equivalent of 1 tsp of turmeric root powder (2g), assuming 80% water content in the raw root, you’d need to use about 5X as much, or 10 g.

            The turmeric powder I use comes from: https://naturerestore.com/pages/our-story (Inexpensively available through Amazon):

            “Nature Restore also wanted to make sure that every supplement label actually contains the exact amount stated. Each and every product we provide to you yields the lowest amount of heavy metals possible (all soil contains minute amounts of metals), no pesticides, no plant-based fillers, and no synthetic vitamins & minerals.
            All of our ingredients have a specification sheet, and each production batch goes to a third-party for independent verification of metals, pesticides and gluten status.”

            Of course, you have to take their word for it – foods and supplements often have carry labels that misrepresent the contents – but at least this California company claims to have addressed this problem for the products they sell, rather than ignore it.




            5
            1. Hi this is Dr. Daniela Sozanski, PhD Naturopathy in Atlanta GA and Moderator for Nutritionfacts.
              i have used and recommended turmeric extract for years. However, event the standard extract from the more reputable vendors such as let.org is still little bioavailable; at this time, there is an improved version on the market, of increased bioavailability.
              However, since discovering raw turmeric root in the stores, first in Texas, now everywhere in Atlanta GA, I never bought extracts again. I eat on 1 to 2 inch long root daily. If taste really offensive combine it with a couple of slices of apple. I hope this helps, Daniela




              2
    1. Maltese, Dr Greger has published a book called “How Not to Die”, which explains in great detail which foods are healthy and which ones are bad for you. And it’s all based on unbiased scientific research studies. You may want to buy this book. And if you do, all proceeds go to supporting this website, where we all can keep up to date on the latest nutritional research without being bombarded with advertisements and biased research trying to get us to buy supplements!




      8
    2. Maltese, plant foods are good and animal foods are harmful to us. It’s best to eat whole plant foods rather than processed foods. If you choose to include oil or added salt, do so in very small amounts and it’s best not to cook with oil.
      Some of the healthiest plant foods are beans, lentils and other legumes, dark green leafy vegetables, cruciforous vegetables, berries, flax, nuts and seeds, etc. Dr. Greger has a lot more info on this both on his website and in his book “How Not to Die” which I highly reccomend reading. He also has a new recipe book out that you may find helpful. But even just browsing through this site, there are so many videos here that better answer your question and offer more insight.




      1
      1. Jerry Lewis, you not the comedian right??? since you haven’t presented any comment that brought any laughter. Anyway, our body makes COLLAGEN, just like a cow does. We synthesized collagen from amino acids Proline, and Lysine. They are hyrdroxlated to hydroxyproline and hydroxylysine by Vitamin C.
        We don’t need to be like a “Virus” and use the bovine’s bodies to get collagen from bone broth.Our body was given all the ability to synthesized ALL our requirements for survival like a cow!!!…yet we act and live like the LOWEST parasite, a virus…maybe that because we have 8% retrovirus in our genome .




        11
        1. Dr Clown, how much collagen does your body produce when you get old?

          Why old people get wrinkle, and need to pee 4 times a night, and their joints and heart valves all fall apart?




          0
      2. A bit funny Jerry the presumption.
        My one grandmother died of CHF in her mid seventies and was wearing metal leg braces ever since her sixties for arthritis. My other grandmother died 72 from a massive AMI, luckily she did not suffer.
        Yes neither smoked nor drank and both ate bone broth. Coupled by meat dairy and eggs which were considered in my cultural context the most wholesome of foods. All the veggies in bone broth stew were simmered to death and barely recognizable as veggies when eaten.
        But to me it tasted good and still would today as that was what I was taught to feel was a good taste.

        Looking back, about all of it was total crap .And yes the reason for their early demise and suffering. WE can say or think what we will about diet pretty safely till about 60 or so. At that age we start to find out in the real if what we believed was healthy really was.For most of us some die earlier.

        WE can also shout what we will from the rooftops about diet till that age as well. Reminds me of the famous actor James Garner a spokesperson for the meat industry till his untimely demise from a MI. Did they keep his meat its what we eat adds going…dropped them like a rock with his demise they did
        He was paid well. .




        6
        1. So sad this thing of diet. I know this is a bit off topic but seems relevant.
          And it is antidotal ;(

          I have a friend of mine who was and still is sort of a body builder. He has and continues to eat as per diet for one 6 or so raw eggs every morning. He does the rest as well certainly high meat dairy protein and It is just what they eat and many do continue to eat to this day.

          The guy nice guy he is on I think 4 or so meds to control his various cardiac related ailments. His body is severely limited as to flexibility and has what I identify by appearance is the onset of artheritic changes to most of his joints. He can no longer lift heavy at all lifting with work outs that may approximate two hours or so when he is not suffering from major injury which make working out impossible and occur with regularity
          And he is now in his sixties.

          The average American I think by age sixty is on at least two prescribed meds. And physically my personal observation is they cannot do a thing physically. My friend lifts but they are like toy weight amounts. Laughable really for his size and history.

          His doc asked him at his last visit which he visits often does he work out..he needs to work out.
          I can’t tell him never could and can’t now.Wish I could though.Now he is seeing the result.
          60 years of that brought him there.I have always felt death is sort of predetermined. You may eat like a nutritionist for years and choke on a broccoli sprout or get hit by a bus.But my thing is and continues to remain….till that fateful day how do you feel what can you do?
          He is now in his sixties.

          I only see suffering and disability ahead of him physically,
          Could I take him by the shoulders as at a age of 20 or so I probably should have and say no you are wrong….no it would serve no purpose he would not listen and just hate me if I did that.

          I am not bragging as who knows here who I am.But it bears stating, I will when this writing is finished go for a five mile jog up and down trails in what is called the manzanita mountains at a elevation of 7200 feet with speed ups thrown in.After I am done I will punch the heavy bag for a total of 500 or so punches divided into three parts and then kcick the bag for a total of a hundred or so kicks.
          And the day after that I will lift. My max lift from the down position on a partial squat up will be 365 for three.

          I state this as it bears stating…….and I am old. Can any of them do this? Will you who espouse their diet will you be able to do this or a comparable…..don’t bet on it is my advice.
          Vegan since 90 veg since 86 and really only having a healthful whole foods diet for a little while as per Dr Gregers videos.
          So doing this thing only half way and this is the result .Lucky sure good genes not really.
          Doing only this exercise thing not really I have a complete life .Kids profession all the rest.

          So you who would verse against this thing I say do so only at great risk…though likely that risk will not present for quite a while.




          6
          1. That’s sad to hear about your friend. I assume you tried talking to him about diet and he got angry or didn’t want to listen (from what it sounds like). I wonder if he would read “How Not To Die” if given a copy, or watch some of these videos if given the links. You’d think he’d want to change his diet given his circumstances.




            2
            1. No peoples in a lower middle class setting basically all they have is self. So self is strongly protected. Advise and gifts of advise books are not well received. My friend is from such a setting.




              0
      3. My what a surprise… I mention an animal product trend and who is the first to respond, why Jerry Lewis of course! And now he doesn’t just know better about nutrition, he knows better about my grandma, apparently. Neither of my grandmothers made bone broth soup to my knowledge and I’m pretty knowledgeable about their old recipes. However that is totally irrelevant. Both of my grandmothers smoked, so is your argument that if people did it in the past, it’s good? Hmm. Bone broth contains significant amounts of lead, it’s unnatural and unhealthy for us due to its being an animal product and our biology, it’s totally unnecessary at best, and a product of horrific cruelty and devastation to the plant.

        Perhaps you need to look at more soup recipes or read the ingredients… most soups don’t as a rule contain bone broth despite its current trending. But again, is that too supposed to be an argument for consuming it? Because many processed soups also contain added MSG, so by that logic…




        4
      4. Jerry

        There is no evidence that consuming bone broth is healthy. As for the fact that people have been eating it for thousands of years, that is a fallacious argument. Literally, it is the appeal to tradition fallacy. People have been consuming alcohol and each other for thousands of years too. That doesn’t prove that any of these dietary practices is healthy.

        You ask where do you get collagen if you don’t eat bone broth. You might just as well ask where do you get hair from if you don’t eat hair.
        ““The idea that because bone broth or stock contains collagen it somehow translates to collagen in the human body is nonsensical,” says Dr. William H. Percy, an associate professor and biomedical scientist at the University of South Dakota who has spent more than three decades studying the ways the human gut breaks down and absorbs the food we eat. “Collagen is actually a pretty poor source of amino acids,” he says.”
        http://time.com/4159156/bone-broth-health-benefits/




        6
  3. “What can we do about it? We’ll find out, next.”

    I know the answer without watching the next video:

    “Don’t eat meat, dairy, seafood, blah blah blah”

    Just for info, Korean and Japanese, Asian in general, Mediterranean people eat a lot seafoods without any problem.

    And I wonder about the theory of lead leaching back to the body from the bones when we have bone loss, is questionable. Or lead going to the bone is also questionable.




    1
    1. Jerry Lewis: It not THEORY. Dr. Greger presented RESEARCH STUDIES from various university and medical school. If you look at the top of the abstract you can see the names of the institution where the “facts” are coming from. So, if you want to be ‘CLOSE MINDED” that your business.




      8
      1. Such as 70 year old “research” theories.

        Remember it’s the WHOLE food that you need to look at, animal or plant food.

        https://chriskresser.com/5-reasons-why-concerns-about-mercury-in-fish-are-misguided/

        #1: Studies of mercury exposure in fish consistently ignore the important role of selenium
        We’ve known about the role of selenium in preventing mercury toxicity for at least 45 years, with the first research report on this topic appearing in 1967. (1) Since then several studies have shown that selenium consistently and predictably counteracts the adverse effects of mercury exposure. (2)

        How does selenium do this? Exposure to mercury is harmful because it deactivates special selenium-dependent enzymes—called selenoenzymes. Since the brain consumes nearly 25% of the oxygen we breathe, it continuously produces oxygen by-products that can damage the fats and proteins that make up the brain. Selenoenzymes are extremely important in the brain because several of them prevent oxidative damage while others actually reverse it.

        In the past, researchers thought selenium was protective because it binds to mercury and prevents mercury from harming other molecules. This led to the mistaken idea that mercury causes harm in the body until selenium binds it. But our current understanding is almost the reverse: it’s not that selenium prevents mercury toxicity by binding to mercury, but that mercury interferes with selenonzyme function by binding to selenium. In fact, mercury cannot cause harm until it occurs in high enough amounts to inhibit a significant percentage of selenoenzyme activities. Mercury is only harmful because it binds to selenium and prevents it from performing its vital roles in the brain.

        As long as you are eating fish that contains more selenium than mercury, the amount of selenium in the body will always be in plentiful excess of mercury. That means that these essential selenoenzymes are never inhibited to a meaningful degree. Fortunately, the vast majority of fish most people consume have more selenium than mercury. The exceptions are pilot whale, shark, tilefish, king mackerel and swordfish.

        Unfortunately, the well-documented protective effect of selenium is consistently ignored in both the medical community and the media when reporting on potential harms from fish consumption. This is almost certainly causing harm, as it has led to advising pregnant women and young children to eat less fish, when we should instead be telling them to eat more.




        1
        1. Better yet, instead of fish, Jerry Lewis, eat a Brazil nut every once in awhile. That way, you are not adding to the decimation of the world’s fish AND getting your selenium–with no worries as to whether the particular fish you are eating might have more mercury than selenium, not to mention other toxins that the world’s population is dumping into our lakes and oceans.

          EASY–and win-win!!!




          9
        2. And if it was only mercury. PCB’s Chlordane DDT and who knows what else is in fish.

          We know there is a lobby of peoples in government and in the food industry which pushes very strongly for the consumption of fish. As many local communities depend upon fishing and corporate interest do as well.
          Now who would be pushing to state that these fears are overstated….does the consumptive fis industry have a counterpart….big fake fish perhaps. ….seems not.
          People can buy something that resembles fish made from soy and such but really no company nor industry solely manufacturers that nor does any particular place depend upon that for jobs and such. Fake fish are invariably just a very small part of a plant based food companies selection.

          So we can guess there is no one overstating the contaminates and or negative health effects as there is no monied interest to do so.

          However on the other side….there is strong compelling economic interests who do benefit if we understate the contaminates in fish and continue to consume them.

          So it is clear to me on which side I lean. And if lies are to be found it is clear to me on which side they will be found.
          Loosing ones job because one can no longer sell fish is a tragedy, a personal tragedy. But as with carriage crafters having to move on when the auto was made it is a bit part of life this moving on at times.
          So do to widespread environmental pollution overfishing and such it is now time to move on from fish. WE may shout against make this make up this or that but in the end like with the reality of global warming we have to at some time or other accept things for what they are and that change has occurred.

          Take a look at any ocean any time…is in not overtly filled with plastic industrial and agricultural waste. Are not the great lakes?
          Seems so. Where does all the run off from hog farms dairy and such go….into the waters it seems. In some countries they do not even treat human waste that goes into oceans. A pipe is the filtration system.

          No times have changed fish are no longer edible. Common sense tells us that. And common sense also tells us many have great financial interest to see to it we do not know that.




          5
        3. Jerry

          Getting nutritional “information” from an acupuncturist may not be the wisest course.

          For some reason, your quote fails to mention that freshwater and inshore fish from low selenium areas like Europe, Brazil and parts of the US etc may also be low in selenium. Deep water fish may have adequate amounts but it’s stretching the truth to say that the vast majority of fish people consume have more selenium than mercury. This may be true in some areas of some populations but not others.




          5
      2. Dr. Georgie, Jerry would argue 2 + 2 equal lying 4 if he preferred a different outcome. There’s no reasoning with him, he’s just an irrational troll. One could sooner educate a house plant.




        6
    2. Omg Jerry, you and your blatantly false blanket statements. WATCH OUT SCIENCE! If it doesn’t appease Jerry’s bias, he’ll deny it based off of his own wishful thinking and pretend to himself and others that he has any kind of authority or even knowledge on the subject.

      You’re such a whining little troll, I hope you’re at least being paid well.




      6
    3. Jerry no offenses intended you are probably a nice person just trying to make ends meet like most of us.

      But why are you here on a whole foods plant based discussion board where virtually no one agrees with you?.You are aware exists plenty of KETO boards and there you may actually influence those who are investigating it. .
      It seems like a waste of time.
      Certainly continue if that is your inclination but I have not seen hardly a one agreeing with yo., A singular like is what you get which I assume is self inspired.
      Just saying…..




      7
    4. Jerry
      Yes. it is so annoying that Dr Greger relies on actual evidence for his analyses. Why can’t he have the decency to invent convenient “facts” like you do?

      Thy do eat a lot of seafood in South Korea. However, it appears that fish consumption may increase blood mercury (Hg) and even cholesterol levels. This Korean study was published a few months ago

      “The results of this study suggest that fish consumption increases the level of Hg exposure, and that as the level of Hg exposure increases, the levels of cholesterol profiles increase.”
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5704572/

      As for Japan, the Mediterranean etc, the World Health Organization examined the issue of seafood consumption and methyl mercury (MeHg) levels

      “Brune et al. reviewed Hg biomarker studies – published from 1976 to 1990 – of general populations exposed through various sources and found the highest values among seafood consumers in Greenland and Japan.197 Sioen et al. estimated contaminant and nutrient intake in general populations based on global seafood availability data and found the estimated MeHg intake to be highest in Japan and the Pacific islands, followed by the Nordic and Mediterranean regions.198 A recent European regional study examining biomarkers showed the highest MeHg exposure to be in Mediterranean countries.199”
      http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/92/4/12-116152/en/




      4
  4. Jerry Lewis’ lack of scientific understanding, education, and knowledge is clearly on display on a regular basis on this site. He clearly does not understand how science works and the basic underlying tenets of scientific hypothesis to theory.

    Re: bone broth and his comment that we need to consume it because “where else would we get it?”. We get the exact same place that a cow, chicken, a fish gets it – from our diet. (You don’t see cows worrying about eating their bone broth so that they can grow big and strong). Here’s an interesting article on collagen should anyone be interested:https://www.news-medical.net/health/What-is-Collagen.aspx But collagen is a protein made up of amino acids. If JL had any scientific background he would know that the body NEVER uses protein directly no matter where it comes from. The body breaks down protein into its amino acid building blocks then “chooses” to use or discard the amino acid parts to build what it needs. The body also recycles about 80% of its amino acids which is why one needs less protein once one is grown. But if you happen to be interested in how to support your collagen body parts that you make, one of the best things you can do is not eat bone broth (which is actually more work for your body to break down the collagen protein and then rebuild it) but is to consume fresh Vitamin C from whole foods and the amino acids that build collagen – which is exactly what cows, chickens, fish, etc. do. One can have a ton of collagen or amino acids in their body but without the presence of Vitamin C the body cannot use the amino acids. From the science that Dr. Greger has shared with us, it appears that about 200mgs/day of Vitamin C is what the body uses. The best vegetable source I have found for naturally occurring Vitamin C is yellow bell peppers with about 315mgs/whole pepper. A portion of a pepper and an orange would give you all the Vit C you need for a day. Here is a link to some natural sources of the amino acids that any and all mammals use to build their own collagen, bone broth not needed (ever see a fish seeking bone broth??):
    https://www.newbeauty.com/slideshow/42-top-collagen-boosting-foods/2/
    Eat your amino acids along with your vitamin C and your body will do the rest. :-)




    7
  5. I fail to understand why there appear to be no adverse unsubstantiated gross misstatements of fact being made at this present time today on this board, all the retorts seem to be going unanswered…….is this a holiday or something…..oh wait…..Seems those representing the factual side of things is however well represented despite this being a holiday.
    :)
    Just kidding
    Perhaps now they will surface




    1

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Pin It on Pinterest

Share This