There are rare birth defects in which the inability to produce certain compounds requires an exogenous source. Presented here is a case report of a boy with a mutation in his carnitine transport system.
When Meat Can Be a Lifesaver
Doctor's Note
The arachidonic acid story I refer to in the video can be viewed here: Chickens, Eggs, and Inflammation. Vitamin B12 is a nutrient not made by plants or animals, and is critical for those eating plant-based diets. See Safest Source of B12 for an introduction, and also check out my blog post Vegan B12 Deficiency: Putting It Into Perspective.
Note that both of the sources listed in Sources Cited (above) are open access, so you can download them by clicking on the links.
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The “arachidonic acid story” I refer to in the video can be viewed here: Chickens, Eggs, and Inflamation. Vitamin B12 is a nutrient not made by plants or animals and is critical for those eating plant-based diets. See Safest Source of B12 for an introduction, and my blog post Vitamin B12 Deficiency: Putting It Into Perspective. And there are hundreds of other videos on more than a thousand subjects. Note that all of the sources listed above in “Sources Cited” are open access, so you can download them by clicking on the links.
Dear dr. Greger.
I am a vegan with MVP and regurgitation.
Is it essential for me to take taurine?
Could this be the reason why a number of people, regardless of truth or not, fanatically claim to need meat in their diet?
Thanks for sharing this fascinating story! This is a great example of what I love about Dr. Gregor: he reports the facts rather than only giving examples that bolster veganism. Granted, 99%+ of the data do show good results for veganism, but some other groups promote the idea that it is impossible for any vegan diet (no matter how badly planned) can have any deficiencies for any people. It’s great having someone I can trust for nutrition advice!
The boy was given carnitine supplements and stayed vegetarian. I wonder how carnitine supplements are made.
No need to wonder when we’ve got google :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnitine_biosynthesis – just like with B12 it’s biosynthesised in bacteria.
in the lab
What is also interesting to me is that the boy chose not to eat meat, but simply to take the supplements.
great decision I think as food is a packaged deal, simply supplementing what you need is the best idea
I suffer from Gilberts Syndrome and find that my body is unable to synthesize Taurine well, I substitute with supplement tablets when required but find my bodies health breaks down without red meat consumption. I don’t feel that the understanding medically around the affect of Gilberts allows for a true meat-free diet yet as most doctors still believe GS is asymptomatic. Instead I seek to obtain grass fed/free range animal products which have healthier fat and nutrition profiles.
I am very interested in some of the statistics you show when comparing diets as having seen the vast difference in nutrient profiles put forth from farms like Polyface when comparing their eggs to others. I can’t help but see the need for another classification. One which would represent the consumption of locally, freshly and sustainably harvested animal product grown in a way that respects the historical living conditions and diets of the animals without pesticides, hormones, chemicals and production based breeding specialisation. The comparison between these animal products and the mass-produced animal products is a question that I’ve not found answered clearly yet. Thanks for your videos, very informative.
I have Gilbert’s, too and I have been eating a vegan diet for over 10 years and I’m doing quite well. What do you mean your body “breaks down” without red meat? I tried taurine and I didn’t feel anything different with it.
you use a lot of words trying to justify eating animals.
I see you want to have the least negative impact possible, dr greger has many more videos describing how your gut bacteria can thrive on a meat free, all vegan diet.
I’d recommend talking to your doctor of trust and switching to a whole foods plant based diet testing your blood regularly and supplementing what you actually miss… so you have the best of both worlds as always recommended here, get the best out of every world.
good luck for you and your part regardless how you decide
Very interesting.
Carnitine supplements from what source? How can you say he stayed vegetarian if the source was from meat?
It’s biosynthesised using bacteria (just as B12 is). Google is your friend :)
Here is an interesting study: http://www.jbiomedsci.com/content/17/S1/S6
Thoughts?…
“Oops! The embed code for this page is not valid”
Thanks for pointing this out so we can figure out what the problem is.
Well I just watched the whole video with no problems, so I guess you must have fixed it :)
So should vegans supplement with Carnitine, Taurine or Carnosine? How would you know if you have this genetic deficiency?
Correction: “When carnitine supplements can be a lifesaver” :P
I recently read Dr. Michael Lam’s article on “Adrenal Fatigue and Estrogen Dominance.” He states “Women who are on estrogen replacement, birth control pill, or those suffering from excessive estrogen (this is a widespread condition commonly called estrogen dominance) may need more taurine. ” I was on birth control for 20 years due to PCOS, and just came to the realization that it was not good for me. I know better late than never. Dr. Lam does emphasize dangers of commercially grown, hormone ridden, pesticide filled animal protein and plants though. What is your opinion on this study/opinion? BTW BIG FAN!!!!!
I just stumpled over a word taurine – it was one of the ingredients of a food supplement. This lead me to a article in the internet and I read that taurine is important for the human brain (keyword mitochondria function). The writer siggested, that vegans are pure in taurin and this could lead to a strong reduction in brain function in the age, like dementia and alzheimer.
I could’t find any information about taurin in plants.
Just in case a patient will speak about taurin with me – can anybody give me safe information about this topic? Is there any study available Mr. Greger and Team?
I’m over 65 and have read that production of taurine decreases with age. Any truth in this? Any down side of supplementing with taurine? Just looking to keep brain function protected but I don’t “buy in” until Dr. Greger and Team look in to this and provide more info. Most studies I could find were on rats. I eat vegan, follow Dr. G’s Daily Dozen, supplement with B12 and algae based DHA.
Hi Andrew
Taurine is not an essential amino acids. What that means is that, providing the body has all of the essential amino acids it needs from protein in food, it can make it own taurine (and other non-essential amino acids that the body uses.) Generally protein intake can decline as people age, mainly because often taste/smell declines and that’s a big driver for eating. If all of the essential acids are present in the amount needs, there should not be a problem with taurine production. But if they are missing, there may be. This doesn’t mean you need to supplement with taurine unless there is a proven deficiency. But it does suggest that one needs to make sure to ensure adequate protein intake. This doesn’t necessarily mean through supplements, but just through healthy whole foods—beans, whole grains, nuts and seeds, along with the leafy greens and other veggies.
Hope that helps!
– nutrition professor and volunteer moderator, Martica Heaner, PhD
My daughter has low level of CREATININE (mg/dL) 0.45
She is 12 y.o. She was on plant based diet for almost a year.
Does she need to take any supplements?
Hello Alyona,
Thank you for your question. I am a family doctor with a private practice in lifestyle medicine. Your daughter’s creatinine level is actually not low at all. The normal range for children up to age 12 is 0.0-0.7 mg/dL, and for adult females is is 0.4-1.1 mg/dL. Creatinine levels that are low are fairly rare, and almost always reflect low muscle mass. I have never worried about a patient with a low-normal or slightly low creatinine — I don’t know of anything bad caused by that. High creatinine levels are what we worry about, because that usually means decreased kidney function.
I hope this helps.
Dr. Jon
PhysicianAssistedWellness.com
Could you please make a video on Glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency (G6PD deficiency)?
How can people with this enzyme deficiency be vegans? Is it not better for them not to eat legumes at all, since hemolysis (in some degree) occurs after eating foods from the list to avoid? I know that some may be more sensitive than others, but is it true that hemolysis happens (even when there aren’t any physical symptoms) every time they eat beans or lentils?
thank you
Doris,
the diet is usually not that “drastic.” Usually avoiding red wine, beans/legumes, blueberries, soya products and tonic water should be enough.
Hope this helps,
Moderator Adam P.
Thank you for your reply, Following this course of diet, eliminates many sources of protein.
In that case, how can he get protein in his diet?
Hi Doris- Vegan protein sources other than beans/legumes include: whole grains like oats and brown rice, pseudo grains like quinoa, nuts like cashews and almonds (not peanuts, which are legumes), plus all fruits and vegetables have protein. If one eats sufficient calories to maintain a healthy weight, even with avoiding hemolysis-inducing foods, one will get enough protein to thrive on a plant based diet. -Best, Dr Anderson, volunteer
Thank you very much for your reply!
Do you have any information on the treatment of Gaucher’s Disease or Fabri’s using diet?
Thanks for all the wonderful work.
Thank you for your interesting question. As you know, both these diseases are genetic leading to an enzyme deficiency. I don’t believe there have been any dietary intervention studies in these patients. It is known that patients may require a higher calorie intake due to increased basal energy expenditure. However, given that these diseases affect many organs of the body and Gaucher in particular has a high incidence of certain cancers, including myeloma, I would suggest that eating the most healthy diet for general health (whole food plant based; scientifically proven) would also be a good idea in these diseases (although I have not seen any studies that say this).
Neurofibromatosis is another genetic condition that may need carnitine supplementation. My daughter, with NF, craves meat, eggs and diary. They recently discovered a “myopathy” in NF that makes it difficult to digest long-chain fats, the ones found in healthy foods. Carnitine helps with this. The deficiency of carnitine could lead to the lessened muscle strength, energy, bone weakness etc. found in NF. I started my daughter on carnitine supplementation six months ago and have been pleased with her increased height growth rate and more energy. She says she feels stronger. https://nfwithkerry.wordpress.com/2018/01/29/taller-and-stronger/
If one supplements such nutrients that the body can produce (but may not produce enough for health reasons or unusual demand), such as carnitine, carnosine, creatine, taurine, DHA, ribose, will the supplementation inhibit the natural processes that produce any of these (i.e. use it or lose it)? Some of these nutrients are shown to improve conditions like chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, or enhance athletic performance and body building (e.g. aiding ATP production). But could that enhancement come at a cost of losing natural production? Also, are there natural ways (nutritional, behavioral, mind management) to improve production of any of these?
You’re getting at the metabolism of various substances in the body. In general, the body closely regulates blood concentrations of substances. In the case of carnitine, the main mechanism is increasing or decreasing elimination of carnitine via the kidneys. If the body detects a lower level, carnitine excretion is slowed. If the level is high, the body excretes more.The liver makes sufficient amounts in the vast majority of people. Without deficiency, a daily supplement doesn’t really affect the levels of carnitine, because the body maintains the optimal level. I couldn’t find evidence that production is affected in a substantial way in the setting of supplementation. For high dose carnitine supplementation, though, there are harms. Here’s a video on that topic: https://nutritionfacts.org/2013/11/14/avoid-carnitine-and-lethicin-supplements/ -Dr Anderson, Health Support Volunteer
Since starting to follow a vegan diet in 2019 my energy levels which were always low (this was the original reason for going vegan) have dropped further and I am now unable to work. I continued to press on with vegan food, given the many good arguments for it, but something seems very wrong. I have been following the daily dozen and cut out white sugar,white flour etc. This video makes me wonder. What are the metabolism ilnesses which can get worse on a vegan diet, and what kind of tests exist to find them? Many thanks for your help!
Sorry. I started eating vegan in 2014, not 2019.
I also supplement with B12, vit D, algae DHA/EPA and, because I developed anemia since going vegan, iron.
Hi, Asja! Many people experience an increase in energy after going whole food, plant-based. If you have persistent energy issues, to the point that you cannot work, there may be an underlying medical reason for it, such as chronic fatigue syndrome, and you should see your doctor for a diagnosis. One possibility is thyroid dysfunction, which can worsen if you do not consume enough iodine and selenium. Please do see your doctor to find out what is going on. Don’t just start supplementing, because too much can be as bad as too little. If you are diagnosed with thyroid dysfunction, these may be of interest.
https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/thyroid-health/
https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/thyroid-disease/
https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/iodine/
https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/selenium/
Hi Christine! Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my postings. I have indeed been checked through by an endocrinologist, and according to the results, my thyroid function is normal. I have also been checked through by an internist and a haematologist, and none of the tests which have been done and none of the blood results have shown any other clue as to why I am so fatigued. So yes, I have been diagnosed as having chronic fatigue syndrome. What is surprising for me is that the fatigue has considerably worsened since I started eating vegan. Now this may not be related to my diet. But what if it is? That´s why I was so intrigued to find this video, which for the first time gave me the information that there are some very rare conditions where going vegan can cause serious problems. Hence my question: What are the metabolism illnesses which can get worse on a vegan diet, and what kind of tests exist to find / exclude them?
Hi, Asja! Other than the one presented in the video here, which would be discovered through genetic testing, I am not aware of any metabolic illnesses that are worsened by a balanced, whole food, plant-based diet. Chronic fatigue syndrome is caused by a virus, and can take a long time to resolve. Green tea has antiviral properties, and might benefit a person with chronic fatigue syndrome. More on that here: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/benefits-of-green-tea-for-boosting-antiviral-immune-function/ There are also some herbs that have antiviral properties, such as oregano, garlic, and elderberry. I hope that helps!
Please keep in mind that Dr. G does not recommend a vegan diet. Veganism includes many things that can make you very sick and fatigued, like Oreos, french fries and soda. Whole Food Plant Based is a small subset of veganism, but not the same.
Dr. Ben
Dear Dr. Ben, many thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. Maybe I was not clear enough when I described my diet. I do indeed follow a whole food plant based diet. The oreos, French fries and sodas which you mention do not play into my fatigue, because I don´t eat them, nor any other foods which fall into these categories. Hence my hunt for other reasons which could be at the root of the fatigue.
I would like Dr. Gregor to do a video on the carnivore diet and reversing chronic diseases like autoimmune disease. I am not sure if any studies at all have been done or if it is entirely testimonial. This is of particular interest to me because I used to be vegan but then my ‘illness’ still not diagnosed but from tests results I seem to have secondary or tertiary hypothyroidism. I tried lots of supplements, herbs and different diets including long terms fasts (which were the only effective thing but not very practical). Finally I am healing and feeling good for the first time in years eating one meal a day and being a strict carnivore. Every time I try to re-introduce a plant food my previous symptoms come back and it can take me days to recover. It’s all very interesting! Has anyone else heard of anyone like this?
I used to eat like you before I started eating unprocessed plants exclusively. I felt ok, but missed things like fruit. What you may be experiencing is that you’ve colonized your gut with meat friendly bacteria, but the fact is that we don’t know for sure. What we do know from well founded clinical research, is that populations that eat meat like you do have a 30% increased risk for premature death.
Hi Ben, I think that we are opposites that way. You see, I was eating an unprocessed, mostly vegan, gluten and sugar free diet for years and becoming more and more ill. My symptoms all began at 16 (I’m now 30). Then a few years ago everything got worse, much worse. I would do water fasting and every time I started to eat again I felt like I was being poisoned by food and my symptoms would all come back again. When I started on the carnivore diet (after years of not having touched meat) the feeling of being poisoned and symptoms started to go away. I must have become sensitive to the phytochemicals in all the plants and fungi (leptins, betacarotene, flavonoids..,etc.). As I am now healing from this illness and my symptoms are going away I find it hard to believe that I have a 30% higher chance of dying. I felt like I was dying before but now I am coming back to life. I try nearly every month to reintroduce a plant food but each time I do my old symptoms come back again and it takes me a few days to recover, so I know my body can’t handle them yet. It really is miraculous and it would interest me a great deal to understand the mechanisms behind all of this. Do you have any nutritional / biomedicine background & understanding that could shed light on this? I have tried to find studies but have been unsuccessful so far. Thank you!
Gina
Someone showed me the study below recently. It talks about how taurine is essential for women and how vegetarians and vegans become deficient. I’m just wondering what the experts think about this study and whether it is flawed or biased.
Thanks
https://ndnr.com/womens-health/taurine-the-essential-non-essential-amino-acid-for-women/
Your reference is not a “study”, it’s more of a news article. The article does reference some interesting papers, but also cites articles that are uncontrolled and are basically non-evidence. These types of references and other wording in the article such as “wonder molecule” really compromise the author’s credibility and indicates that she is not very objective. This article is, at best, low quality evidence, and worst case, misleading non-evidence. The one thing that really stuck with me is where she basically says that the only people that get taurine deficient are people that are very sick to start with…often with diseases that we don’t see frequently in those that eat a WFPB diet.