To post comments or questions into our discussion board, first log into Disqus with your NutritionFacts.org account or with one of the accepted social media logins. Click on Login to choose a login method. Click here for help.

  • BB

    This is an excellent presentation of the cause of diabetes. But, if I showed it to my relatives who have advanced diabetes, they would not want to believe it. They would say it is the CARBS that cause their blood sugar to raise and must be avoided. Do they avoid carbs? No, in between eating their high-protein (and fat) diets, they treat themselves with “small” portions of cake, ice cream at parties, fatty potato salad at picnics, etc. All their present doctors seem to care about is the blood sugar reports and prescribing insulin and other drugs. This works with my diabetic relatives desire to keep eating their favorite foods. They would need a complete re-education on what they think they know about diabetes. They think what they are doing is the right thing (low blood sugar reports) but, they are getting worse, the disease is progressing. They are in danger of losing their feet, but they just don’t get it. I have come to realize that it is easier for them to give in to the disease then face their fears about changing their diets and lifestyles.

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Ugh. That must be super frustrating, BB! I am sure others have experienced this. I know I have. Perhaps the best we can do as family members who love our family is to be supportive. I know that’s hard to do, but if we encourage them in their goals and let them know we’re here to help it can go a long way. The more we listen and try to understand their struggle may allow them to open up and perhaps try new ideas. Don’t give up! Maybe others can share their thoughts, too?

      Best wishes,
      Joseph

      • Gary Giovino

        I think it’s important for the person to be respected and affirmed. We need to present facts, of course, but indicate that the ultimate decision is really up to them. We express support and care, all the while allowing them to make the decision. Tom Campbell provides more details in his new book, The Campbell Plan. And of course on a public health level we need to change government subsidies and strive to make marketing messages less seductive – like we did with tobacco.

      • Ann

        How do you be “supportive” of people that are food junkies? That’s what’s wrong with you doctors. You can’t just say “don’t eat that”. People are addicted to the foods they are addicted to and until one shows them how to transition, but putting good in, they will eventually crowd out the bad. You can’t just take their drug away and expect them to comply. They don’t make the food connection until you show they how to start to feel healthy. People don’t even know the feeling. Encourage their goals? What goals? To die the fastest?

        • Gary Giovino

          “Eat more” messages resonate better than “don’t eat” messages (per Barbara Rolls’ research. Obviously we need to tell them to eat more of the good (i.e., healthy) stuff. I agree that we are dealing with an addiction. Cigarettes are also addicting and we’ve changed the culture and motivated a lot of people to quit smoking. We did this in part by pointing out the lies of the industry in its public statements and its marketing campaigns. Food is more difficult, because there are so many messages to counter. But doable. Connecting with people, no matter where they are, matters. Let’s not blame the victim. Also, it’s a marathon, not a sprint. Enjoy the journey. Don’t let the problem consume you, or the companies win.

        • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

          Great thoughts. I don’t have all the answers. Everyone is different and respond to change differently. As I cancer dietitian in a clinical setting we used motivational interviewing to help understand where the client was in their “stage of change.” The power of listening and empowering is very useful. I like the idea of crowding out the heath “depleting” foods with health “supporting” foods. And yes, spot on, we must educate and help clients make the connections to diet without coming off as “Thee expert” or the “food police.”

          • HereHere

            I recommend that people read the book:Instant Influence: How to Get Anyone to Do Anything–Fast. The title is a bit of an exaggeration, but it is a real eye opener into human psychology. The first thing you have to to do is affirm the person’s autonomy – it is their decision whether you (quit smoking, go vegan/vegetarian, etc.). Then, you ask them a series of questions about their motivations for change, etc. It really is worth reading the book. It’s been a while since I read it, but there are about 7 stages to the process.
            I also think, if they are willing to watch the documentary: Simply Raw: Reversing Diabetes in 30 Days, they will find that to be a paradigm changer. They will see there are options to drugs, and most people don’t want to be on drugs, but they don’t believe that a vegan diet will do it, or that they could be healthy (let alone healthier) eating ‘sticks and twigs’. I would love to a documentary that shows reversal of diabetes on a transitional plant-based diet (i.e. incorporating some mock meats, as Dr. Barnard’s work), as I think a raw vegan diet is out of most people’s willingness and perhaps even ability (depending on climate zone, income, work circumstances, etc) to implement.
            Good luck to you all, as I know you really do want what is best for your family and friends!

          • Thea

            HereHere: I read the book Instant Influence just a few weeks ago! I think it is a great book, though I agree with you that the title and cover waaaay over-promise. Still, the book has some great insight into the human psyche.

        • Alan

          I cannot even direct most of my relatives in the right direction. They only have one direction that they are interested in and that is to eat their unhealthy foods.

          • Ray Tajoma

            Me too. They are “Know it All”.

          • The first step is to expose others to the idea that food has an enormous impact on chronic disease. Although previous video’s have provided more details this one brings it all together. Unfortunately for people who wait sometimes the “horse is out of the barn” and the process isn’t as amenable to reversal. That said if you have impaired glucose metabolism there is no need to not work on slowing the death of your pancreatic, liver and most likely other cells plus preventing other chronic conditions and their consequences. There are several keys for me as a clinician and advocate. First briefly expose patients to the best current scientific thinking in a way that values their autonomy… always encourage others to sign up for NutritionFacts.org as the science keeps changing and exposure to the effects of other conditions is important. Second use the patients goals as the basis for further influencing them. This can be tricky unless they ask. When patients come to me they are requesting my opinion. Finally lead by example and don’t get frustrated. There is a huge amount of misinformation out there. As most of us who have made the transition have found it is a journey. You never know when someone who doesn’t seem interested or open to change will suddenly start asking questions and be open to new recipes or acquiring new shopping skills.

      • MikeOnRaw

        On January 1st of 2015 I switched from a standard american diet to a whole foods plant based vegan diet. At that time I decided that I would share my journey so that others could see what I’m doing and why I am doing it. The hope being that family and friends might be motivated to become healthier themselves, and to provide another view of a person who can change after 46 years of eating the way everyone else does. To provide one more example of the wide variety of ways you can eat healthy.

        My wife stopped drinking diet pop 3 months ago. when I make cooked vegan dinners she shares with me now and she has gone from maybe 1 serving a day of fruits and vegetables to more than 5.

        My brother in law and Sister in law have both started exercising regularly and eat more plants and vegetables.

        My daughter in law and my youngest son have asked to go with me to the local Sams club to get bulk fruits and vegetables with me as they want to start eating healthy.

        I act as an advocate for healthy change, I share the information I find and I present the facts so they can make their choices. I’d be shocked if any of them give up animal products entirely. But if I can get all of my family and friends to increase their whole food plant intake by only 10%, well, then my effort is well worth it because that is 10% less of the bad stuff they are eating.

        • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

          Love it! Thanks for sharing Mike. Just an example of how being patient and helpful can make a difference. Leading by example is huge so long as you are not “preaching” about what is wrong and right. Just my 2 cents.

          • SeedyCharacter

            One reason I love NF.org is that I can forward a relevant video/article to a receptive friend/family member with a “thought you’d be interested” note. They can read it or not. But I like that I can give them a solid resource without any overbearing preachiness.

        • SeedyCharacter

          Thanks for sharing your story, Mike. I have witnessed the ripple effect in my extended family, too. One niece and both of my sons are now vegetarian (after I raised them mostly veg, they went on a meat eating spree for a few years). My sister is reducing meat a lot and is slowly giving up her addiction to buttery-sugary desserts. My 87 year old mother lives with my veg son and since she no longer enjoys cooking, she’s happily eating the veg meals my son makes for her. I have been a little too preachy over the years (not in the blatant form of “You should . . .” but just sharing unsolicited nutrition advice a tad too enthusiastically).

        • Jay

          I have also found that my going vegan has had a positive effect on family and friends. They haven’t gone all the way vegan, but they are certainly eating far less animal products and far more fruit and vegetables. My mother, who is nearly 80 and has heart disease and diabetes, has got a lot better in the last year or so.

      • Alan

        I cannot encourage most of my relatives in their goals. Their only goal is to keep eating the way they have been and i refuse to encourage them in that direction. But i do know what you meant !!

      • cotangente

        Dr Jozeph or Greger. How long does it take for the beta cells to be completely dead after having type 2 diabetes ? How many years of undiagnosed diabetes will cause that to happen ?

        • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

          It may depend on how severe the disease is? I’ll confirm…

    • John

      Well, carbs like sugar and flour do cause diabetes, as well as saturated fat. Both can be harmful. When we eat spaghetti, for example, better to eat smaller portions of noodles, more vegies and more tomato sauce, plus no meat and no meat fat especially. Olives and mushrooms are a good substitute for the meat/fat.
      John S

      • Brux

        >> When we eat spaghetti, for example, better to eat smaller portions of noodles

        What facts indicate that?

        • John

          Large amounts of carb tax our blood sugar and insulin, leading to Alzheimer’s disease, diabetes, inflation, and obesity. I don’t want any of those things. Moderate amounts of healthy carb, mixed in with vegies, olives, mushrooms, avocadoes, tomatoes, etc, lead to less blood sugar stress, and a lot more nutrients. Wheat has a lot of anti-nutrients in it.
          John

          • Brux

            >> Large amounts of carb tax our blood sugar and insulin

            A lot of space in there for qualification … i.e. what is a “large” amount, and what does “tax” mean, as well as is there a distinction between refined and unrefined carbs.

            I was never a big fan of Dr. John McDougal, especially in his talk about how Steve Jobs did himself in. But I think he has a point about unrefined carbs, i.e. potatoes, corn, rice, wheat, etc … that they must be the cornerstone of a WHPB diet.

            I don’t think pasta is that bad, and there is whole grain pasta as well. I guess what caught me about your comment was an unwarranted attack on spaghetti … which in my opinion is the least of anyone’s worries.

            What gets me about these discussions … that take place thousands of times per day all over the Internet is that while people learn general rules that they would do well to respect, like the idea of WFPB diets, even if you decide you can or want to eat meat now and then, or spaghetti, they go off on their own personal tangents about coconut oil, or pickles, or fish, or eggs, or whatever, as if everyone in the world begins from the same place and we all should eat a pefectly uniform diet.

            I have some health issues, and I am trying to figure out what I, personally, need to change, for me, but I know that may not apply to other people. For example there are many people who eat meat all their lives in moderation that never got themselves into an unhealthy situation. We see them in the population of the most long lived people of the world, that we get a new one every year or two. There are a lot of factors here, so what one makes of all this information about diet is great, but people should not try to get everyone else to follow them or lecture others. After all the best scientists in the world do not know the real answer to these questions and it is likely going to be a long time before they have it figured out, and then at some point it might all have to be revisited too with some new discovery.

          • janet

            Did you clarify what is WHPB diet?

          • janet

            I saw below what the WHPB stands for. Here we go again with the plant based. Yes – i agree it is hard to change ones’ diet. It is a struggle. However,does anyone consider when eating merely ‘plant based’ (instead of choosing to become vegan) it is not ending animal suffering and is not ending THEIR 24 hour a day struggle? Plant based is not considering the animals and their agonized life of suffering and the holocaust that is their world from their first breath.’ (Please don’t mention the organic, and hormone free ‘meats’ as being less suffering for animals.There is a whole other argument that says they suffer even more – for instance – when infected cows are milked with bleeding udders and can’t be given any medication so as not to spoil the ‘chemical-free’ labelling, and so puss and blood and infection is allowed to be painfully (for the cow only) machine-milked into the milk supply.) When a person is first choosing a vegan diet and then consciously moving with intention towards that way of eating- it is an moral and ethical decision to bring no harm to living beings and ‘ahimsa’ to cause no suffering. When i hear the term ‘plant based’ to me it is a me, me, me statement. My health, my preferences, my well being and (without veganism) none of it is giving a fleeting thought for the beings still consumed. Even though the ‘beings’ may inadvertently be consumed somewhat less in numbers with the ‘new and trendy’ plant based diet – this is still on the same continuum of the SAD (standard american diet) – complete cruelty with no consideration for the being that once was and is now a corpse on the plate. No consideration of or for the living, loving, intelligent creature that was once a living being, and is now a corpse on the plate – continuing the saga of ‘bodies as cemetaries’ without a conscious thought about this very fact. Plant based is not taking into account kindness, consideration, ethics and morality and the rights of helpless creatures slaughtered by the billions upon billions every single year.
            Just an aside – on another part of the equation – has anyone noticed radical climate change? This disruption to our environment is brought about by (OVER 51% of destruction to the enviornment) people eating meat and dairy.

          • Jocelyn

            Janet, I totally feel where you are coming from. I think there are many ways we people will avoid looking at the morality of our choices. And I agree, talk of a WFPB diet is only another mask we wear to keep us in the dark. I mean I don’t think there is a strong fool-proof argument that a person eating *some* animal products can’t maintain relatively good health. I mean if you eat WFPB diet, but then have a chicken salad once a month, or turkey only on Thanksgiving, you’ll still be pretty darn healthy. However, there is no way a person can eat any animal products, and not be participating in the exploitation of animals – and that even something like “eggs only Sundays” still violates the fundamental rights of a living being to not be used a resource.
            Please everyone, go vegan. You will never regret it! Your heart will open with joy once you open it to those beings who are the most vulnerable. Health and wellness of our bodies and the planet are just glorious ancillary benefits!

          • Linda N

            “complete cruelty with no consideration for the being that once was and is now a corpse on the plate.” Want to tell that to the lion that hunts and eats his “meat” prey, many times while it is still alive, but most of the time the lion does do a quick kill by snapping the neck of its meal first. Nature is cruel. Man is trying to be less cruel as we have more intelligence. However, everything on this plane of existence eats and is eaten, and the microscopic life will eat us when we die. Most of the traditional religions of the world have rules about how an animal is to be killed before consumption. A totally vegan diet is also about selfishness in a way. Most totally vegan diets are consumed by people in rich countries who have a choice about what they eat and enough money to implement that choice; including the means to supplement with B12 supplements, and “vegan EPA and DHA”. Most of the third world has to try and maintain health with what food is available to them, including insects, snails, snakes, bird eggs etc. to obtain their B12. Even most poor vegans in India get insects and worms in their grains that serve as additional protein supplementation.

            And don’t anyone tell me insects don’t feel pain. I have seen insects struggle to survive my cat’s hunt. I myself try most of the time to trap bugs in a glass and slide a piece of paper underneath to catch them and throw them outside because I am not in danger and have no need to needlessly kill a poor bug just because it crosses my path. Having said that I have no problem eating chicken eggs that have not been fertilized to obtain the myriad of nutrients in them. And because I have severe Diamine oxidase regulatory disorder (AKA genetic histamine intolerance), I have also developed tons of very severe food sensitivities as a result. My diet is no extremely limited and most vegan sources of protein are off limits to me (e.g. soy, legumes, miso, tempeh, peas, mushrooms and much more). Meat is also off the menu due to the aging of it in modern food production. I am severely sensitive to all grains although I do so hope to regain a tolerance to at least a couple of them at some point.

            Posters here are talking about people who won’t listen to anything you say, but from where I sit, many of you are acting like the food police every single day and turn a totally deaf ear to any other point of view or way of eating healthy other than your touted total veganism!

          • ron

            wheat also adds fiber that is good for reducing sugar. That’s good.

          • MikeOnRaw

            not really John. If you are insulin resistant, then yes, you may see some problems. But if you aren’t, you’ll be fine. My breakfast typically consists of 260g of carbs. Where 678g of wheat pasta gives me around 179.7g of carb. (cronometer.com stats). And I did check my glucose recently when eating breakfast because I had some car guys I know say I was killing myself by eating what I do. you can see that here:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWKA8rEWOpc

          • Thea

            MikeOnRaw: Great video! I especially liked that you did the experiment around a smoothie – as even some people who eat WFPB (whole food plant based) have a lot confusion/concern around the topic of smoothies. The concern is that a high speed blender may modify the food so much (either by separating out the fiber or cutting the fiber too small) that there is some harm in consuming the smoothie. But your experiment shows this is not true – at least for you and your situation. I also like how you bring it back to “the research” at the end. So, you put your individual experience in the context of the bigger picture. Nicely done and thanks for sharing.

          • Susan

            Especially now, wheat has a lot of anti-nutrients in it. Conventional wheat is treated with the herbicide, Glyphosate (Roundup), which is an acid herbicide and studies are now showing it is also a BIOCIDE –killing all life sources. Monsanto patented glyphosate as a mineral chelator –it sticks to or binds minerals in the soil and does not allow plants and animals (including humans) take up the nutrients. Monsanto also patented glyphosate as a desiccate. Farmers are told to spray glyphosate just before harvesting wheat and cereal crops, which makes it easier for harvesting.
            And, in 2010, Monsanto patented glyphosate as an antiobiotic.

            There is a very interesting interview on you tube with (Dr.) Anthony Samsel on the glyphosate safety tests.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13yO9VpjwLQ

          • John

            Yes, I think that the original wheat, before they changed it to have preposterous amounts of gluten, was actually good for you, especially when eaten mixed with green vegies. However, the profit motive is huge.
            Using glyphosate to desiccate? Effect on human gut microbiome? Horrible. Govt’s efforts to hide information? Disgusting.
            John S
            PDX OR

          • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

            Again, I think it depends on the “carbs”. Many studies have allowed unlimited amount and found great results short and long-term. I talk about them, here, if interested. I will agree that in some rare cases, like Marshallese populations, diabetic control is easier managed by controlling carbohydrate and focusing on more “beans and greens” so to speak.

      • Michael Gaines
        • John

          Thanks for posting that Michael. Brux has a point in that there is preference and some variability, but we have to make a decision, several times a day and we can’t wait: what should I eat? It seems clear from Dr Greger and Michael’s post that if you eat high carb and high saturated fat, you are inviting disaster. Such natural antagonists as Dr. Atkins and Dr. Neal Barnard would agree on that. John S

          • Alan

            John i eat a VERY high carb diet. Lots of fruit, grains veggies and beans. Also several white potatoes and lots of times sweet potatoes practically every day. And i am doing fine. I have Dr Neal Bernards book “Dr Neal Bernards Program for Reversing Diabetes. On page 46 He suggests 8 servings of whole grains per day.Three servings of Legumes, Four or more servings of veggies ,and 3 or more servings of Fruit per day. On page 56 he says Pasta is a low GI food. He also points out on page 14 that in Japan, China and Thailand and other parts of Asia and in parts of Africa where Diabetes is rare that they all eat a diet high in Carbohydrates.

          • Brux

            I can only imagine by high-carbs, high-fats John must be talking about potato chips or something. The idea that carbs are bad for you I don’t see any grounds for, in doctors’ advice or in this video either. You have to eat something, and that means the basis of that something is going to be some “macronutrient” … fats, proteins or carbs. Fats are at the rock bottom of the nutrient / calorie density chart of Dr. Joel Fuhrman, they have no nutrients but calories. Proteins are great, but we do not need nearly the proteins we thought or have been told we do, and evidence seems to indicate that too much protein, especially dairy or animal protein can cause loss of bone density. That leaves carbs, and carbs includes grains, fruits and veggies … all the fresh stuff full of nutrients, vitamins and anti-oxidants you can imagine. Even oats, wheat, rice, etc have nutrients. The idea that carbs are bad for you I don’t see any backup for??

          • Alan

            I agree whole heartedly with you Brux. Maybe he is just beieving what the mainstream sickness system is teaching.

          • Linda N

            The right fats contain essential fatty acids. Where did Dr. Fuhrman get the idea that fats contain no nutrients? The cell membrane is composed of various fats, and yes, composed also of cholesterol, that much touted horrible entity that is the parent molecule of all the steroid hormones. I do so wish physicians got nutrition training in medical school. Alas sadly they do not, and many who go on to become interested in nutrition somehow get stuck in self-interpreting badly designed studies, that in the long run don’t related to the big nutritional biochemical picture nor to biochemical individuality.

          • cotangente

            Exactly … It’s not CARBS causing diabetes, it’s FAT. People are still very ignorant regarding the cause of type 2.

        • MikeOnRaw

          Did you look at that study? Did you see who it was funded by? I’m not saying the results should be ignored, but I would like to see a qualified person review that study to see if the conclusions are really that valid. There is a lot of competing research that points to dietary cholesterol having a negative health result.
          Competing interests: Professional associations (Dairy Research Institute, The Beef Checkoff and the Egg Nutrition Center) were sponsors of this research

          • Michael Gaines

            The study is a real true clincal study by experienced professionals. You’re attempting to distract by claiming due to sponsor money that would make people of high integrity skew their results or commit fraud.

            The university has no reason to do that. They clearly have knocked the ball out of the park with their research.

            We can’t ignore data just because of its sponsors. We can’t do that to the agricultural groups that fund vegetarian ideas either. The money to research always comes from business…

            Now thst Research 50 year ago claiming low fat diets and food pyramid was and remains a disaster. It was based on incomplete and omitted data.

            This is complete:https://news.osu.edu/news/2014/11/21/study-doubling-saturated-fat-in-the-diet-does-not-increase-saturated-fat-in-blood/

          • MikeOnRaw

            Looking further at the study, I think we can agree that excessive dietary intake of Protein, Carbohydrates, or Fats will result in storage of fat. The governments push for lower fat, lower protein and more carbs created a marketplace where people only looked at the macro nutrient ratio and not the quality of those foods. And since everything they eat is skewed towards carbs, it is easy for someone eating a diet high in processed foods to get excessive carbohydrates. Whole Plant based foods of course make over eating much more difficult.
            This study looked at people that already had metabolic syndrome.There have been sufficient studies that show blood cholesterol increases with dietary cholesterol. Perhaps this new study is indicating there is a point in our body at which dietary cholesterol no longer raises blood cholesterol? But more research would need to be done.
            While this video doesn’t apply directly to the study you mentioned, it does point out those studies that indicate cholesterol changes with dietary intake. http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-saturated-fat-studies-set-up-to-fail/

          • Michael Gaines

            Actually studies show increased dietary fats don’t increase choledterol. I proved it on Atkins years ago and my blood tests amazed my doctor. He said he had been treating me for 20 years and that he had never seen my cholesterol and other blood work look so fablous. He told my wife to stop complaining about my diet because it was showing unbelievable clinical improvement…

            There are tons of stories and scientific tests thst have proven this repeatedly…

          • The Vegetarian Site

            Michael, you’re claiming that increasing dietary saturated fat does not increase blood cholesterol. That statement of yours is false, according to mountains of studies and virtually every RD and cardiologist. Perhaps you are able to cherry-pick a couple studies that indicate no change in LDL, but you honestly need to look at the balance of the science.

          • Michael Gaines

            No you are now misleading.

            There are and have been clinical evidences for over 50 years that clearly show dietary saturated fats don’t cause cardiovascular disease. It’s clear there is no argument in science regarding this fact.

            It is true that they believe if a person has a high level of saturated fats proven within their circulatory system this is potentially harmful. But nobody with half a brain in science will claim the consumption of dietary fats causes this problem. In fact it’s just the opposite.

            Now they have indeed discover that excess carbohydrate is creating a bad fatty acid, but it only does so with excessive sugars and carbohydrates present. Conclusive clinical test prove this with extreme accuracy.

          • Michael Gaines

            Not all ldl is bad for us. In fact without it we would be dead. It’s only small particulate ldl that is bad and even more so with low hdl.

            High fat may raise ldl, but it lowers small particulate ldl and raises large ldl slightly in some cases. Hdl always greatly improves with high fat low carb diets. There is tons of testing repeatedly confirming all of this out here…

          • The Vegetarian Site

            Virtually every recognized nutritional organization asserts that saturated fat consumption is associated with a rise in LDL, as they have taken the full breadth of scientific research into account. I suggest that you do your research there rather than via internet blogs or statements from alternative (non-RD) “nutritionists” or fringe docs. Please read what Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics states, or perhaps check the Harvard School of Public Health, or the American Heart Association, or the American College of Cardiology, etc., etc.

          • Michael Gaines

            I suggest you learn that you would be dead without ldl cholesterol.

            It’s small particulate ldl that is dangerous. As high fat eaters ldl levels go up its been proven it’s large particulate ldl. High fat reduces small particulate ldl and may raise large particulate and always raises hdl…these are good and beneficial changes with respect to cholesterol.

          • Thule

            ANY weight loss (no matter the cause) will lower your cholesterol.

            Dr. Greger: “Weight loss by any means can drop your cholesterol. You could go on an all-Twinkie diet and lower your cholesterol if you were unable to eat the dozen daily Twinkies necessary to maintain your weight. That’s why a good cocaine habit could end up lowering your cholesterol.

            Chemotherapy, can drop your cholesterol like a rock. Tuberculosis can work wonders on your waistline. Anything that drops your weight can drop your cholesterol, but the goal isn’t to fit into a skinnier casket, the reason we care about cardiovascular risk factors like cholesterol is because we care about cardiovascular risk, the health of our arteries.”

            “There has only been one study ever done measuring actual blood flow to the heart muscles of people eating low carb diets and this is it. Dr.Richard Fleming, an accomplished nuclear cardiologist, enrolled 26 people into a comprehensive study of the effects of diet on cardiac function using the latest in nuclear imaging technology–so-called SPECT scans, enabling him to actually directly measure the blood flow within the coronary arteries.

            He then put them all on a healthy vegetarian diet, and a year later the scans were repeated. By that time,
            however, 10 of the patients had jumped ship onto the low carb bandwagon. At first I bet he was pissed, but surely soon realized he had an unparalleled research opportunity dropped into his lap. Here he had extensive imaging of 10 people following a low carb diet and 16 following a high carb diet. What would their hearts look like at the endof the year? We can talk about risk factors all we want, but compared to the veg group, did the coronary heart disease of the patients
            following the Atkins-like diets improve, worsen, or stay the same?

            Those sticking to the vegetarian diet showed a reversal of their heart disease as expected. Their partially clogged arteries literally got cleaned out. They had 20% less atherosclerotic plaque in their arteries at the end of the year than at the beginning. What happened to those who abandoned the treatment diet, and switched over to the low carb diet?

            Their condition significantly worsened. 40 to 50% more artery clogging at the end of the year. Thanks to the kind generosity of Dr. Fleming we see the changes in blood flow for ourselves.”

            Is just an extract, for complete info http://nutritionfacts.org/video/low-carb-diets-and-coronary-blood-flow/

          • Michael Gaines

            Since his subjects dropped out of the study they were not controlled. This makes the test invalid in a scientific sense. How do you test people that drop out of your study? How do you confirm their diets were high fat , protein or carbohydrates since they aren’t participsting.

            Sorry but that’s not science.

            My Cardiologist has looked at the science and he clearly doesn’t want his patients eating high carbohydrate…

          • Thule

            The only changed diet, “10 of the patients had jumped ship onto the low carb bandwagon”

            Not in a random, uncontrolled diet.

            Looks like you didn’t watch the video. That’s a tiny extract.

          • Thule

            When your cardiologist is able to REVERSE arteriosclerosis plaque without any drugs, just with the diet you sponsor, present proof.

            Until then, the ONLY diet able to reverse and cure heart disease all by itself, is a low fat whole plat based food, exclusively.

            Dr. Esselstyn does that every day for at least 2 decades. Saving patients that were dropped by their doctors in many cases. No longer even operable.

          • Michael Gaines

            Per a prominent cardiac surgeon
            Let me repeat that: The injury and inflammation in our blood vessels is caused by the low fat diet recommended for years by mainstream medicine.

            What are the biggest culprits of chronic inflammation? Quite simply, they are the overload of simple, highly processed carbohydrates (sugar, flour and all the products made from them) and the excess consumption of omega-6 vegetable oils like soybean, corn and sunflower that are found in many processed foods.

            Now you go argue with the brilliant surgeon…
            http://www.sott.net/article/242516-Heart-surgeon-speaks-out-on-what-really-causes-heart-disease

          • Thule

            Is he reversing heart disease, extremely advanced heart disease as Dr. Esselstyn? No drugs, no bypass.

            No he doesn’t.

            “OK, so how are you going to do it? Imagine you work for Big Butter. You’ve got quite the challenge ahead of you. If you look at
            recommendations from around the globe, there is a global scientific consensus to limit saturated fat intake with most authoritative bodies recommending getting saturated fat at least under 10% of calories, with the prestigious U.S. Institute of Medicine and the European Food Safety Authority recommending to push saturated fat consumption down as low as
            possible.

            The latest guidelines from the American Heart Association and the American College of Cardiology recommend reducing
            trans fat intake, giving it their strongest A grade level of evidence. And the same with reducing saturated fat intake, and since saturated and trans fats are found in the same place, meat and dairy, cutting down on foods with saturated fat will have the additional benefit of lowering trans fat intake. They recommend pushing saturated fat intake down to like 5 or 6%. So that’s what you see when you go to the American Heart Association website, no more than 5 or 6% of calories.”

            http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-saturated-fat-studies-buttering-up-the-public/

            It is you who swallowed a lot of pseudoscience, promoted by very powerful lobbies.

            “Study doubts saturated fats link to heart disease,” reported The New York Timesin March. (“Butter is Back,” exulted Times columnist Mark Bittman.)

            Yet just last November, the American Heart Association and the American College of Cardiology issued

            their long-awaited advice on diet and exercise. Their bottom line: cut saturated fat to half the earlier target levels. What gives? Shaky science…and a mission by the global dairy industry to boost sales.

            For decades, experts have advised us to replace saturated fats (in foods like meat, dairy, and butter) with unsaturated fats (in foods like oils, nuts, and fish). Now some controversial studies are challenging that advice. Here are the facts behind the headlines.”

            https://www.cspinet.org/nah/pdfs/covermay2014.pdf

            You never bothered to see the videos. See the studies mentioned in each video (you should).

            If you refuse to see the studies and data presented by thousands in this site, what is your purpose here? The only possibility is trolling.

          • Mike Quinoa

            >>What are the biggest culprits of chronic inflammation? Quite simply, they are the overload of simple, highly processed carbohydrates (sugar, flour and all the products made from them) and the excess consumption of omega-6 vegetable oils like soybean, corn and sunflower that are found in many processed foods.

            Nobody following a low-fat, whole-foods, plant-based diet is going to eat that stuff anyway.

          • Michael Gaines

            My guess is that not many wfpb people actually ever stick to a strict diet of whole food then. Even you admit you eat whole wheat products such as pasta and bread… whole wheat has as many inflammatory carbohydrates as wonder bread, only it doesn’t spike to high to fast, it spikes long and slow… Anything that convert into sugar in the body causes inflammation especially in the excess.

            I bet it’s rare to find anyone on wfpb diets not eating potato. Not eating rice, not eating pasta and noodles and all convert to sugar in our bodies.

            My guess is if you’re already skinny you still metabolize sugars well and eat a lower caloric diet and this combination helps inhibit insulin resistance because you likely aren’t spiking sugar and insulin via snacking between meals and bedtime…

            Most diabetics aren’t blessed with such habits or discipline. BAD SUGAR METABOLISM, attacks them with hunger all the time unless they can get insulin under control.

          • MikeOnRaw

            Remember though, our goal is not simply to make the cholesterol numbers look good, but to actually be healthy, and however long we live do so in a highly functional way. As Dr. Greger has said before, you can go on a diet of cocaine and end up with great cholesterol numbers, but the goal isn’t just the numbers. Have you seen this video? http://nutritionfacts.org/video/low-carb-diets-and-coronary-blood-flow/
            It’s sources show studies that explain your chance of good test markers but still be at risk while on Atkins.

          • Michael Gaines
          • MikeOnRaw

            I would counter with this study from Feb of 2012 from the British Journal of Nutrition. It has more participates yet the conclusions do include the statement: This relationship needs confirmation
            with larger cohorts in randomised clinical trials.
            http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8877972&fileId=S0007114512003091

          • John

            The point I was making is that both high carb and high saturated fat can be damaging. There are innumerable studies supporting both of these conclusions and I think they are both true. Dr. Barnard has tried to show that limiting fat can help diabetes, and I believe that’s true. However as the Weston Price people have shown, it decreases the bioavailability of B vitamins and A and D. Dr. Atkins and Perlmutter (Grain Brain) showed that decreasing carb can help blood sugar and cholesterol in the short term. I think the problem with Atkins and high protein/high meat diets is that in the long run, you are much more likely to develop cancer. With high carb, you are more likely to get Alzheimer’s, diabetes, etc. That’s why I am advocating high veg, high carefully chosen fruit, especially berries, moderate carb (such as green leafies per Dr. Fuhrman over bread and potatoes), and moderate high quality fat (such as verified extra virgin olive oil, avocados, olives, seeds and nuts per Dr. Joel Fuhrman). I think it makes the most sense of all the recent nutrition research I’ve read. Also lots of mushrooms and spices. Make it taste good and you’ll be healthy and happy.
            John S

          • Michael Gaines

            John, let’s be truthful here.

            Fats are essential, without fats to consume we would die. Fat is an essential nutrient and all our hormones are built from fats. Can you live without fats? NOPE.

            Protein maintains and build muscle. It’s an essential nutrient as well.Can you live without protein?NOPE.

            Carbohydrate… hmmm does it build or maintain any part of the human body? NOPE… Can you live with dietary carbohydrates? YEP… & be healthy? YEP…

            As our bodies grow we deposit fats from our diets if over consumption and just the body preparing for future rainy days. By the time we’re adults with normal BMI levels we carry enough fat to nurse us for 3 to 6 months without eating. If your obese you carry enough to possibly allow you to go a tear or more without food.

            I really laugh at the vegans claiming they never eat fat or meat. BUT let’s be truthful, if you’re not eating e ought calories of even highly nutrient rich veggies, you will burn body fat. They burn their own fat as their own bodies eat their fat stores too for energy. It’s pure human animal fat that they burn… so toss this vegan idea right out the window. Their bodies consume animal fight right off t h eir own butts.

            My point is dietary carbohydrares are simply a preferred fuel for the body in the presence of dietary sugars & carbohydrates. In the absence of dietary carbohydrates your body loves to create ketones for fuel by burning it’s own previously stored body fats… The brain, muscles etc prefer ketones over sugars in fact.

            Now I do know we have an issue with meats and how they are raised and farmed. I agree antibiotics and hormones are ruining our animal stocks and possibly impact our own health. Likewise so are genetically grown crops and pesticides to improve their yields.

            Unfortunately organic foods are costly so we ate stuck oten with poor choices. But we must eat or we perish. Toxins are in both plant and animal foods… We should ban growth hormone in creatures, we should ban more pesticides especially in plants that don’t filter these out of their systems.

          • Ed

            There’s a difference between “essential” and “the more the better.” Yes, fats (omega-3 and omega-6 anyway), and proteins are essential macronutrients. Yes, carbohydrates are not technically essential macronutrients. But, that does NOT mean that the human body runs best on only protein and fat. The preponderance of evidence suggests that the human body runs best on a diet composed of 90% or greater whole plant foods. It makes sense, considering our anatomy and phylogeny as a species. To focus on individual macronutrients, vitamins, minerals, or phytochemicals is like not seeing the forest for the trees.

            Time and time again, people get so hung up on specific nutrients, without viewing food as a package deal. Remember when beta carotene was all the rage, or vitamin E? So, what did lazy humans do? Did they eat more sweet potatoes, carrots, and nuts? No, they asked for pure beta carotene and vitamin E in the form of a pill, which did nothing except slightly increase their cancer risk.

            All this overanalysis and this tendency to view nutrients in isolation from one another just doesn’t seem to be the right way to “do” nutrition. I’m not going to “avoid carbs.” I’m going to eat plenty of carbs in my oatmeal, brown rice, fruits, vegetables, and beans. So far, I’ve lost 60 pounds by doing that, and I’m at the bottom end of the normal BMI range. My diet is very low in fat, and has a moderate amount of protein, but I’m getting the essential fatty acids. More importantly, I’m getting untold quantities of wonderful phytochemicals that work in amazing ways to prevent cancer and other diseases. Not just the ones we know about, but the ones yet to be discovered.

          • Michael Gaines

            The preponderance of evidence us based on scientists building a food pyramid that has lead to greater illness. Low fat recommendations for the last 50 years have made us obese and sick as a nation. That’s what the evidence tells us…

            I’ve seen the data and our world clearly grew fatter on faulty data and recommendations to eat less fat.

            The body prefers to eat it’s own fat. That’s why it tries to get to that fat when we sleep at night no matter what kind of diet you practice. The brain and muscles love ketones. Just ask the ketogenic 100 mile marathon runner who bested the track record and beat his competition by 36 minutes… The man ran 100 miles in 14+ hours on nothing but water.

          • Ed

            Michael, I can’t say I agree with your narrative, because it’s based on a few assumptions that aren’t true.

            Firstly, the scientists did recommend a lower fat diet starting in the 1980s. However, since the 1980s, American per-capita consumption of fat did not decrease at all. Therefore, government recommendations can hardly be the cause of our worsening condition as a nation.

            Secondly, if the scientists recommend a low-fat diet, people have a few choices of how to go about eating “low-fat.” Did you know that an ounce of gummy bears has the same number of calories, and the same carb/fat/protein ratio as an entire pineapple? Did you know that 3 fig Newtons have the same macronutrients as an entire small canteloupe? Do you think eating those two types of food have the same effect on your body? Do you think they have the same effect on your satiety, or your weight? Focusing on individual nutrients is completely worthless when looking at the cause of obesity and other chronic diseases. It’s all about the entire package.

            Thirdly, when scientists put together the food pyramid later on, they based it mostly on science, but also partially upon the influence of various lobbyists from the meat and dairy industries, (which explains the larger-than-justified role meat and dairy have in the original food pyramid from the 1990s). In any case, when you look at food consumption statistics, Americans did not adhere to the food pyramid in any way, shape, or form. Therefore, the food pyramid is not the cause of our problems, either.

            You have to separate government recommendations from what people actually ate. Believe it or not, most people don’t hawkishly adhere to government recommendations about what they should eat.

            Michael, when you look at macronutrient consumption in the countries of the world, the thinnest countries get most of their calories from carbohydrates, by far. Usually, the ratio is 60-80% calories from carbohydrates in those countries. Easting lots of carbohydrates, especially in the form of whole grains and beans, just do not cause obesity, no matter how much the low-carbers try to argue that case.

            I am interested in the ketogenic marathoner you mention. What is his name?

          • Michael Gaines
          • Michael Gaines

            There are no meaningful clincal studies to prove high protein causes a higher rate of cancer. That’s assumed and speculated on survey data and isn’t clinically material…

          • John

            There are innumerable. Try reading some of Joel Fuhrman’s work or check out THIS SITE!
            John S

          • Michael Gaines

            I like Joel furman, even tried his diet but it didn’t fix my diabetes or hunger.

            Here try this John Hopkins study funded by the diabetes association and kidney foundation.
            http://m.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/low_carb_higher_fat_diets_add_no_arterial_health_risks_to_obese_people_seeking_to_lose_weight

          • sottolaw

            What studies link potatoes (in their whole food form, prepared without oil and served without butter or dairy products) to diabetes and dementia??

          • John

            They are equal in glycemic index to table sugar. Do you really want to eat that? Diabetes is how you get dementia.
            John S

          • sottolaw

            Neither table sugar nor potatoes cause diabetes or dementia.

          • Brux

            >> Neither table sugar nor potatoes cause diabetes or dementia.

            First, there is a difference between how much sugar something has in it, I believe that is the glycemic index, and the speed with which it enters the system and must be dealt with – which I believe is the glycemic load. I hope I have that right, or at least not backwards.

            Fruit has sugar, and even fructose, that evil sugar Robert Lustig lectures and writes books about.

            Too much sugar released into the blood too fast can overwhelm the system. As some doctors say if you eat fiber along with that fruit or sugar you will do better with it. True or false? It is my understanding that this is why complex carbs and fruits are not bad for people with borderline metabolic syndrome, and things like sugar, honey, or even fruit “juice” can be.

            The problem is that neither potatoes, nor fruit are bad for people. South Americans have been eating potatoes for thousands of years and they do not have diabetes or Alzheimer’s.

            I don’t know why this is so hard to understand, or why it is not well understood and well explained. Diabetes is sugar in the urine, meaning it clearly has something to do with sugar. But does that mean it is caused by sugar, or even farther removed, starches that are converted to sugar? I am sure not convinced of these arguments, and I really wish people who make definitive statements like potatoes give you diabetes or table sugar gives you diabetes, without really understanding and being able to drive what they are saying would be warned and eventually kicked out of the boards.

            People, please if you cannot explain something, prove it or back it up, do not express it as a categorical, because you simply do not know.

            There is enough commentary to go through that frankly I can’t go through it If I make a comment in one of these videos I get an email every time someone comments on the video, whatever I do. It is overwhelming, and almost maddening when I see categorical statements from people I know do not know what they are talking about … and I am far from expert on this.

            At least qualify your thoughts, like – say you “think”, or in your opinion, or your understanding that such and such causes so and so – at least that provokes some communication.

          • sottolaw

            I agree. John is trying to make the claim that potatoes cause diabetes, and by extension, dementia. That’s a pretty fantastic claim.

          • John

            Read “Grain Brain”, or look at the overwhelming preponderance of evidence. Tell me where on Joel Fuhrman or Nutrition Facts they will tell you that table sugar doesn’t cause diabetes. Potatoes or fruit we can talk about. Talk about a fantastic claim! When you are going to claim that, I feel it’s not even worth having a discussion, hence the sarcasm. Are you really going to try to convince people that table sugar isn’t bad for you? Go for it!
            John S

          • sottolaw
          • John

            SO I could just say McDougall is simply wrong. Not worth my time. John

          • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

            Maybe it depends on the type of potato? Sweet potatoes have a low GI. Here is a video about the best way to cook sweet potatoes. It’s really the french fries (deep frying) that is problematic, as they are laden with acrylamide. Red, gold, and/or blue potatoes may be a better choice than the large white ones.

          • Brux

            >> Grain Brain is simply wrong. https://www.drmcdougall.com/mi

            That article makes a convincing case with strong backup studies. Processed carbs are completely different from potatoes, grains, corn, etc and even pasta. There is no evidence that grains are bad for people unless they are allergic to them or have a specific problem with them, and then they can switch from one to another one. It might make sense to try to eat fruits and veggies all day every day, but you have to eat and prepare an awful lot. Carbs fill us up and give us energy, and not too much energy if they are not heavily processed with their fiber removed.

          • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

            I don’t think John was saying potatoes and fruit cause diabetes, at least I didn’t read that, but maybe it depends on the type of potato? Sweet potatoes have a low GI. Here is a video about the best way to cook sweet potatoes. Red, gold, and/or blue potatoes are likely a much better choice than the large white ones!

          • One medium (5 inch) baked sweet potato has a GL of 10, according to nutritiondata. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2667/2

          • Thea

            John: re: “Tell me where on .. Nutrition Facts they will tell you that table sugar doesn’t cause diabetes.” Check out the video on this very page. I think this video does a very good job of explaining in lay-person’s terms what causes diabetes. It is the saturated fat, not sugar or any type of carbs. From the transcript: “So what causes diabetes? The consumption of too many calories rich in saturated fats. Now just like everyone who smokes doesn’t develop lung cancer; everyone that eats a lot of saturated fat doesn’t develop diabetes—there’s a genetic component. But just like smoking can be said to cause lung cancer, high-calorie diets rich in saturated fats are currently considered the cause of type 2 diabetes.”

            *No one* is saying that table sugar is good for you. We are just explaining that table sugar does not cause diabetes. Those are two different issues. Make sense?

            Re: Grain Brain. If you looked at that article from Dr. McDouggal that you were given, you will see that McDougall gives some great references to back up his position. Similarly, if you do some research here on Nutrition Facts, you will see what whole, intact grains are simply healthy. There is nothing to back up the over-riding claims made in the Grain Brain book. But if those sources do not appeal to you, I think you should check out the following page, which is an article from a site for celiacs and gluten-sensitive people. This review is a critique of the “science” in the book Wheat Belly, but the same idea applies. Even these people say that Wheat Belly is not backed up by the science:
            http://noglutennoproblem.blogspot.com/2012/03/wheat-belly-busted.html
            They have another article that touches on Grain Brain, but not in as much detail. So, I referred you to the above link instead.

            Here’s an article from a website called “New York Mag”, in a section called “Science of Us” with an eye opening look into the author of Grain Brain. Since Grain Brain sounded plausible to you, I think you really need to learn the information on this page:
            http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/06/problem-with-the-grain-brain-doctor.html

            I truly think it is great that you are here to learn. I hope you will be open to doing so.

          • John

            I am interested in learning. I am not interested in sitting in a foxhole with my “team”, throwing missiles at the other “team” and saying that’s what learning is. I think that is a waste of time. Some people on Nutrition facts. org are into “we’re right they’re wrong”, and saying it 100 times. I don’t think that’s very interesting. I am trying to figure out in what ways Dr. Greger is going to say the more important piece, and in what ways other people are. I am trying to take all of the data and making a synthesis of what is going on. I am sorry that being open minded gets you punished by some people on this site. Have a nice day.
            John

          • John Grains

            ” Some people on Nutrition facts. org are into “we’re right they’re wrong”, and saying it 100 times”

            yes, and some people on Nutritionfacts like to make multiple profiles and think they are fooling people to bolster a perceived argument, don’t they Mr. Gains.

          • Brux

            So, you read a book. You invested your money and time in one book, and you found something you liked, or that appealed to you. Why is it you think you know everything about diabetes now when it is far from understood – and why do you think you can dictate to other people what they should believe based on your judgement. Your judgement about how to think and interact is not good, so why would anyone want to trust you on anything else you say?

            There is no way potatoes cause diabetes. Groups that have eaten potatoes for centuries do not have diabetes or Alzheimer’s. Same with other starches such as rice, wheat, corn, etc.

          • John

            and vegetables are terrible for you and we should all eat processed GMO’s.

          • Brux

            >> and vegetables are terrible for you and we should all eat processed GMO’s.

            Is that supposed to be participating in a discussion, or just being sarcastic like a 6 year old? I mean, do you really think it is remotely productive of contributive on a website that is almost totally devoted to vegetarian eating to claim, I assume sarcastically, meaning that you want to cast someone else’s argument as absurd, when you know virtually everyone here is on the side of vegan, vegetarian or at least much reduced animal products?

            What is the point of making statements like that … just trolling to get a rise or what?

          • John

            Yes, I am a troll for the vegetable industry. I make millions by telling people that they should eat weeds in their yards.

            I don’t like being insulted. I think claiming that table sugar doesn’t cause diabetes is so far from the truth that you couldn’t even back it up, and you love conflict and arguments. I don’t enjoy your anger. I am not going to take the bait anymore. Argue with someone else. I am looking for information.
            John S

          • John Grains

            “such as green leafies”

            Your tell tale writing style gives you away Mr Gains. We know this is you.

          • Jason Harrison

            The OSU study recruirecrparticipants with metabolic syndrome. I suspect that we should restrict our interpretations to that domain.

      • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

        I think pasta is actually pretty low in the glycemic index. For diabetics I’d encourage more pasta then breads. Love the idea about olives, mushrooms and veggies in tomato sauce! Some folks I know blend in cooked lentils to make a thick “meaty” type sauce.

        • vegank

          Blending in mashed chickpeas works quite well too, together with garlic, chili & herbs in homemade vegetable stock with mushrooms etc as a sauce to go on wholemeal pasta .

        • Michael Gaines

          But how can you say thst Dr. If both are wheat products how is one better than the other?

          If I have 50g of whole wheat pasta how is that different from two slices of whole wheat bread at a total of 50g?

          Just curious… what am I missing here?

          • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

            Pasta is dense and bread tends to be very “fluffy” and full of air. I was just referring to the glycemic index. Here is a great list of foods with their glycemic index scores, if interested. Thanks, Michael.

          • Michael Gaines

            Thanks I will check that out. I was just thinking if you have the same weight by a given product…i.e., whole wheat bread at 50g or whole wheat pasta at 50g the glycemic weighting would be identical.

          • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

            You’re welcome! Well, it may seem that way, but the glycemic index deals more with the rise of blood sugar after ingesting a certain food. For example, white rice varies from brown rice. White potatoes are super high, but yams and sweet potatoes very low even if their weight is similar.

          • Ed

            Michael, there’s a huge difference between bread and pasta. First of all, bread is very dry, so it has a much higher caloric density than pasta. Pasta, (when cooked), is actually mostly water, and therefore has a much lower caloric density. Eating pasta and eating bread have two very different effects on the body, which a lot of people fail to appreciate.

          • Brux

            I cannot tell if this is going to be legible or not, but this is a list of the glycemic index and load of pastas and breads. NOTE the serving size and then multiply the numbers. Hope this helps.

            =======================================================================

            ______________________________________Glycemic_______Serving___Glycemic

            ______________________________________Index__________Size______Load_per

            Food__________________________________(glucose=100)__(grams)___Serving

            ===================PASTA_and_NOODLES====================================

            Fettucini,_avg._________________________32_____________180_____15

            Macaroni,_avg.__________________________47_____________180_____23

            Macaroni_and_Cheese_(Kraft)_____________64_____________180_____32

            Spaghetti,_white,_boiled,_avg.__________46_____________180_____22

            Spaghetti,_white,_boiled_20_min,_avg.___58_____________180_____26

            Spaghetti,_wholemeal,_boiled,_average___42_____________180_____17

            ===================BAKERY_PRODUCTS_AND_BREADS===========================

            Banana_cake,_made_with_sugar____________47_____________60______14

            Banana_cake,_made_without_sugar_________55_____________60______12

            Sponge_cake,_plain______________________46_____________63______17

            Apple,_made_with_sugar__________________44_____________60______13

            Apple,_made_without_sugar_______________48_____________60_______9

            Waffles,_Aunt_Jemima_(Quaker_Oats)______76_____________35______10

            Bagel,_white,_frozen____________________72_____________70______25

            Baguette,_white,_plain__________________95_____________30______15

            Coarse_barley_bread,_avg._______________34_____________30_______7

            Hamburger_bun___________________________61_____________30_______9

            Kaiser_roll_____________________________73_____________30______12

            Pumpernickel_bread______________________56_____________30_______7

            50%_cracked_wheat_kernel_bread__________58_____________30______12

            White_wheat_flour_bread_________________71_____________30______10

            Wonder_bread,_avg.______________________73_____________30______10

            Whole_wheat_bread,_avg._________________71_____________30_______9

            100%_Whole_Grain_bread_(Natural_Ovens)__51_____________30_______7

            Pita_bread,_white_______________________68_____________30______10

            Corn_tortilla___________________________52_____________50______12

            Wheat_tortilla__________________________30_____________50_______8

            =======================================================================

          • Brux

            Going to try that again …

            ===================================================

            ____________________Glycemic______Serving__Glycemic

            ____________________Index_________Size_____Load_per

            Food________________glucose=100)__(grams)__Serving

            ===================_PASTA_and_NOODLES

            Fettucini,_avg.__________32_______180_____15

            Macaroni,_avg.___________47_______180_____23

            Macaroni_and_Cheese______64_______180_____32

            Spaghetti,_white,________46_______180_____22

            Spaghetti,_white,________58_______180_____26

            Spaghetti,_wholemeal_____42_______180_____17

            ===================_BAKERY_PRODUCTS_AND_BREADS

            Banana_cake,_w/_sugar____47_______60______14

            Banana_cake,_w/o_sugar___55_______60______12

            Sponge_cake,_plain_______46_______63______17

            Apple,_made_w/_sugar_____44_______60______13

            Apple,_made_w/o_sugar____48_______60_______9

            Waffles,_Aunt_Jemima_____76_______35______10

            Bagel,_white,_frozen_____72_______70______25

            Baguette,_white,_plain___95_______30______15

            Barley_bread,_avg._______34_______30_______7

            Hamburger_bun____________61_______30_______9

            Kaiser_roll______________73_______30______12

            Pumpernickel_bread_______56_______30_______7

            50%_cracked_wheat_bread__58_______30______12

            White_wheat_flour_bread__71_______30______10

            Wonder_bread,_avg._______73_______30______10

            Whole_wheat_bread,_avg.__71_______30_______9

            100%_Whole_Grain_bread___51_______30_______7

            Pita_bread,_white________68_______30______10

            Corn_tortilla____________52_______50______12

            Wheat_tortilla___________30_______50_______8

            ===================================================

        • Mike Quinoa

          I add red kidney beans, lemon juice and oregano to ground tomato sauce, and then use that to top my whole-grain rotini. To go under the rotini, I first cut raw green pepper and tomatoes. Looks great and tastes marvellous.

          • Michael Gaines

            That does sound good. But I’d need 40 units of insulin for the beans and 55 for the pasta…

            If I eat avocado on a butter and bacon grease pan fried burger with grilled asparagus brushed with herbs and seasoning and a side of turnip greens, and a sugar free chocolate moose I wouldn’t need any insulin at all…

            It really depends on who you are…

      • Michael Gaines

        True. I don’t tolerate refined foods like flours, grains, starches etc. I do tolerate the highly nutritious green vegetables quite well as they are low in carbohydrates Yet high in nutrition.

        I have my diabetes in remission via a ketogenic + highly nutrient rich diet that is very low in carbohydrates like 30g or less per day. It took all of 3 days for me to see huge benefits to my sugar levels. I’m insulin free 7+ weeks now and losing 2+ lbs a week as well (started in week 4 as I keto-adapted to the diet)

        I’m intending on also implementing an intermittent fasting program in the near future as I’ve been studying and learning of the great health benefits of fasting.

        You should have your family members suffering of diabetes to learn more. I’m proof you can reverse this disease or its symptoms without drugs. It’s indeed reversable with diet.

        In my case ketogenic +high nutrient green vegetables seems to be my solution. It’s kept me from injecting 250+ times in these last 7 weeks alone.

        Also I know fasting works, as do low caloric low starch veggie diets. There are solutions out here for everyone…. people honestly need to pick something they can make a lifestyle change versus a temporary diet…

        Proud of myself right now. Yesterday the wife stopped for Java Chip Custard; she ate it in the car beside me… I didn’t desire a single lick… it’s full of sugar and I’ve come to see food in terms of how much sugar it holds. Besides I make my own fatty chocolate desert coffee at home without sugar & it’s just as wonderful and won’t send my blood sugar to the moon…

        • John

          Yes, there has been tons of documentation by Drs. Masley, Hyman, Perlmutter, Myers, Mercola, Finkelstein, Amen etc. about the damage to your diabetes from sugar and white flour. There has also been documentation by Greger and Barnard about saturated fat. As I said before, avoid the double whammy, or even a single whammy. Too much refined carb or too much saturated fat are disastrous for diabetes. Nice job on getting your diabetes in check.
          John S

          • Michael Gaines

            I’ve got to stick with lchf + nutrient rich greens. It’s the only solution thst has truly worked for me to get me off insulin 100%.

            Insulin makes diabetes worse. I’ve seen it increase more and more over the last few years. LCHF approach lowere my blood sugars to normal quickly and thus equally lowered my insulin.

            I’m sticking with this approach until a minimum of 40 to 50lbs is shed. I’ll then retest my carbohydrate limits to determine if my body has improved it’s insulin sensitivity with less organ fat interfering with my blood sugar. I’m fairly certain I’M a victim of nonalcoholic fatty liver problems…

          • John

            Yes, Dr. Greger and others have documented that insulin is a great business model but a poor health solution. You keep paying them and you never get better. I have tons of green leafies including weeds in the yard and I put them in my meals every day. He has also documented as have others that berries especially and fruit don’t negatively affect diabetes, especially when eaten in moderation.
            John S
            PDX OR

          • Michael Gaines

            Correct. I will eat small portions of black berry, blue berry, and strawberry. I eat collards, turnip greens, spinach, kale, sea weed in fair amounts & I supplement soluble and insoluble fibers.

            I use the fat like insuLin only I eat it. If sugars are creeping I’ll eat a fatty protein or avocodo and both seem to push sugar back down.

            Short term first 4 weeks I was taking in a lot of caloric fat 75% of 3k calories. Now I can barely eat 1.5k calories at 65 to 70% fat. weight coming down quicker now since I’m not desiring to eat as much, and sugar still greatly controlled.

            I know I’m not cured though, because I still see abnormally high sugars if I accidentally eat something with hidden carbohydrates. But the good news is if I don’t worry about it, my sugars do come back down to normal on their own since starting this diet.

            E.g., wife made chili it had a small can of beans added to it, & she thickened it with corn starch. My glucose within an hour was at 170 (yikes. I was upset with her) but 2 hours later I was 110. So I was slowly normalizing despite picking up refined & complex carbs in my pot of chili… I never would do this before with my typical omnivore diet where I was eating 250 400g of carbs a day…

            So it’s working for now & I must stay the course… I think everyone’s different though too. What works for me may not work for others…

          • Michael Grains

            The entire theoretical framework of low carb
            diets, like Atkins and The Zone, hang upon the notion that insulin is
            the root of all evil and so to limit insulin release one needs to limit
            carbohydrate intake. Dr. Atkins, for example, has a chapter entitled
            “Insulin–The Hormone That Makes You Fat,”[71] Protein Power
            calls it the “monster hormone,”[487] and the author of the Zone Diet
            calls insulin “the single most significant determinant of your
            weight.”[72]

            What they overlook is that “protein- and fat-rich
            foods may induce substantial insulin secretion” as well.[73] Research in
            which study subjects served as their own controls, for example, has
            shown that under fasting conditions a quarter pound of beef raises
            insulin levels in diabetics as much as a quarter pound of straight
            sugar.[74]

            Atkins’ featured foods like cheese and beef elevated
            insulin levels higher than “dreaded” high-carbohydrate foods like
            pasta. A single burger’s worth of beef, or three slices of cheddar,
            boosts insulin levels more than almost 2 cups of cooked pasta.[75] In
            fact a study in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that
            meat, compared to the amount of blood sugar it releases, seems to cause
            the most insulin secretion of any food tested.[76]

            Low carb
            advocates like Atkins seem to completely ignore these facts. Recent
            medical reviews have called Atkins’ feel-good theories “factually
            flawed”[77] and “at best half-truths.”[78] “In the scientific world,
            books like the Zone Diet are generally regarded as fiction,” one
            reviewer wrote in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition. “The
            scientific literature is in opposition…”[79] In a medical journal
            article entitled “Food Fads and Fallacies,” the Atkins Diet is referred
            to as a “‘New wives’ tale” with a “sprinkling of fallacies.”[80]

            According
            to a 2003 article in the Journal of the American Medical Association,
            “Dr. Atkins and his colleagues selectively recite the literature” to
            support their claims.[81] When researchers take the time to actually
            measure insulin levels, for instance, instead of just talking about them
            like Atkins does, they often find the opposite of what Atkins asserted.

            A study done at Tufts, for example, presented at the 2003
            American Heart Association convention, compared four popular diets for a
            year. They compared Weight Watchers, The Zone Diet, the Atkins Diet
            (almost no carbs), and the Ornish Diet (almost all carbs) for a year.
            The insulin levels of those instructed to go on the Ornish diet dropped
            27%. Out of the four diets that were compared that year, Ornish’s
            vegetarian diet was the only one to significantly lower the “Monster”
            “Hormone That Makes You Fat,” even though that’s supposedly what Atkins
            and The Zone diets were designed to do.[82]

            In another study researchers took over a hundred pairs of identical twins and found that the more fat they ate, the higher
            their resting insulin levels were. Even with the same genes, the study
            “showed a consistent pattern of higher fasting insulin levels with
            intake of high-fat, low carbohydrate diets.”[83]

            Other studies
            show that a high (70-85%) carbohydrate diet (combined with walking an
            average of 15-30 minutes a day) not only can result in significant
            reductions in body weight, blood pressure, cholesterol and
            triglycerides, but significant drops in baseline insulin levels as well,
            exactly the opposite of what low carb pushers would predict. In just
            three weeks on a high (unrefined) carb vegetarian diet and a few minutes
            of daily walking, diabetics reduced the amount of insulin they needed
            and most of the pre-diabetics seemed cured of their insulin
            resistance.[84] In general vegetarians may have half the insulin levels
            of nonvegetarians even at the same weight.[85]

            In an article
            entitled “Americans Love Hogwash,” Edward H. Rynearson, Emeritus
            Professor of Medicine at the Mayo Clinic, singled out Dr. Atkins for
            dispensing hogwash he defines as “worthless, false or ridiculous speech
            or writings” and praised the AMA for “condemning this diet for its
            dangers.”[86] The “evidence” cited by Atkins has been called “nearly all
            anecdotal and misleading.”[87] “Carbophobia is a form of nutritional
            misinformation,” a 2003 review in the Journal of the American College of
            Medicine noted, “infused into the American psyche through…
            advertising… infomercials… and best-selling diet books.”[88]

            “When
            unproven science becomes a sales pitch,” declared a spokesperson for
            the American Institute for Cancer Research about low carb diets, “some
            people get rich and the rest of us get ripped off.”[498]

            We know
            that the Atkins Diet is successful–at making money. What about for
            weight loss? We know that cutting down on carbs will help people lose
            variety and nutrition in their diet,[89] and if they buy his
            supplements, their wallet may get slimmer, but what about their
            waistline?

            Who cares if the American Medical Association
            calls Atkins’s theory “naive,” “biochemically incorrect,” “inaccurate,”
            and “without scientific merit?” Who cares if it “doesn’t make
            physiological sense?”[90] The question is, does it work?

          • Linda N

            I think the Atkins diet is highly unbalanced and a bad deal, but I also do not trust anything the American Medical Association has to say about Nutrition, considering that medical students get zero, repeat, zero training in nutrition. The average 25 hour nutrition course, that is purely optional by the way, is a tiny pamphlet. A relative who is a physician showed it to the family member. And frankly that is who is designing these fad diets: physicians. I am also severely suspicious of Dean Ornish who is also a physician.

            This is not to say that some physicians do tend to self educate themselves about Nutrition and nutritional biochemistry, but frankly most do a bad job of it. Including but not limited to Joseph Mercola and, sadly, Dr. Greger as well. They mean well, but the they are all like the bind men and the elephant, each seeing only his own biased view, and thinking it is the whole.

            Also they all seem to caught up in what I call “The Battle of the Macronutrients.”.

          • Brux

            I think that is a very sensible way to look at things.
            I watched Michael Pollan’s “In Defense Of Food” and I like his take
            on things … not a scientist of a doctor. Pollan looks at what has happened
            before, expounding on how for example the cereal industry began in
            Battle Creek, Michigan, around Dr. kellogg, and his hate for protein and
            love for things like yogurt enemas.

            That was not so long ago, and look where it led to. This is all, even the
            boutique doctors come out of the need for money and marketing and
            differentiating one’s POV and finding an audience who pays for that
            point of view. Pollan said, and I’m inclined to agree with him, that in
            100 years we will look back on what have done and thing we are barbaric
            idiots.

            One thing that really struck me in the early 1900’s was how “science”
            thought they could duplicate mother’s milk, and of course, sell formula.
            Well, they did not have the tools at the time to find out half of what was
            really in mother’s milk and probably would not have cared if they did.
            The raised several generations, and still do, of children, that were not
            given the nutrients they needed to thrive … but they sure made lots of
            money.

            He talked about how a major component of mothers milk is indigestible
            to babies, and the wondered what was going on with that. It turns out
            that it is digestible to a species of bacteria that can line the gut and
            protect infants from disease and germs passing into the body through
            the gut. These are things science did not understand back 100 years,
            and did they care of do any testing on what they suggested people to
            guy an eat? Not as long as someone made money they didn’t.

            And to me, this is really political. When we make everything about money
            that is all we can see and we ignore things that are very important because
            no one wants to give up that money stream. That is why for me I support
            Bernie Sanders for President. Bernie is the only candidate I have seen
            in decades that has a point of view remotely compatible with life for the
            common people and is not all about the billionaires and corporations.

          • guest

            ” I have tons of green leafies ”

            We can tell by your writing style that you (John) and Mr Gains are the same person. ” you are creating accounts to reply to yourself.

          • John Grains

            This whole conversation that you’re having with both your accounts is hilarious. Just as long as you realize that we know what you are doing here and replying to yourself to bolster the illusion of a conversation is awesome. Way to go Mr. Gains. I would expect nothing less.

          • Michael Grains

            An analysis of a bunch of randomized drug trials suggests that taking a
            blood pressure lowering medication for high blood pressure may reduce
            the risk of getting a heart attack by 15% and the risk of getting a
            stroke by about 25%. What a coincidence, a recent study found that we
            may achieve similar benefits eating just 3 portions of whole grains a
            day. “The observed decrease in systolic blood pressure could decrease
            the incidence of coronary artery disease and stroke by 15% and 25%,
            respectively. While whole grains are good, refined grains may not just
            be neutral. Out of Harvard: White rice, brown rice, and risk of type 2
            diabetes: In these 3 prospective cohort studies of US men and women, we
            found that regular consumption of white rice was associated with higher
            risk of T2D, whereas brown rice intake was associated with lower risk.
            An interesting wrinkle is that they found other whole grains may be even
            better than brown rice. Eating white rice was associated with a 17%
            greater risk of diabetes; replace with brown and instead apparently get a
            16% drop in risk, and replace white rice with other whole grains, such
            as oats and barley? A 36% lower diabetes risk. Just a single serving a
            day of oats or barley may lower our cholesterol. Whole grains are more
            than just refined grains with a fiber coat. With white flour you get
            this, . But all the rest is stripped away…. which includes most of the
            compounds responsible for whole grain contributions to the health of our
            bowels, weight, blood sugar, cancer prevention, bones brain and heart.
            The powerful effects of whole grains aren’t lost on food industry
            marketing teams who now offer a whole grain guarantee, on foods like
            this…

          • Michael Gaines

            Whole grains are toxic to people with T2D. In my case a single 1 cup serving elevates blood glucose by 100+ points for over 3 hours.

            It’s fine in a non diabetic body, but not do good for one sensitive to carbohydrates.

            Ask yourself why nobody has done a study on T2D and an all grain diet? Because without insulin injections it would be a toxic diet to the metabolically impaired persons…

          • Michael Grains

            In 2007, whole grains were linked to a healthier body weight in
            people both young and old. Whole grains are the very staples of human
            civilization. The Aztec empire had amaranth, the Incas had quinoa, Asian
            empires were built on rice and buckwheat, African empires had millet
            and teff, and wheat, oats, rye and barley kept Europe going. You should
            be able to find any of these whole grains in bulk at your local natural
            food store. When whole wheat flour is milled into white flour, at least
            25 nutrients are removed and five are chemically replaced to “enrich”
            it. It is the Great Grain Robbery! And that’s just the vitamins and
            minerals. There is also 2 to 300 fold loss in phytonutrient content. So,
            if we have a choice, never again white bread, white pasta or white
            rice. Instead eat the grain, the whole grain and nothing but.

            A
            healthy body weight is important but more important than the
            circumference of our waist is the circumference of our carotid arteries
            that supply the blood to our brain. Researchers at Wake Forest
            University followed a thousand people for five years and measured the
            amount of plaque in their carotid arteries. This is what our blood flow
            should look like. This is what our blood flow should not look like.
            Those eating whole grains had a slower progression of their
            atherosclerotic disease. These were all omnivores who ate meat so the
            plaque in their arteries continued to grow but those eating whole grains
            had slower growth, slower closing off of their arteries than those just
            eating refined grains. To use diet actually to stop the plaque from
            growing, to reverse the disease and actually start opening up our
            arteries, they’d have to have gone on a nearly completely plant-based
            diet and eliminate cholesterol and saturated animal fat.

          • Michael Gaines

            Well I agree with some of that. Even our wheat today has been engineered to be less nutrient rich and weaker in fiber and refinement and processing ruin their nutrition values. The grown what’s of today font compare to the what’s we ate 1000 years ago…

            Likely if we hadn’t over refined and engineered these foods we wouldn’t have the level of diabetes we see today. Yet we will never know because we can’t get thst wheat or grains from 1000’s of years ago in our grocery stores.

            Instead we get processed and refined and fortified flours with all the fiber and endosperms removed. If just the fiber were intact alone we would eat less of it because fiber is filling and nature had intended fiber to keep us from over eating the food. But man has made the sugar power incredibly more potent and dense through his refining process to a point each spoonful of flour is equivalent to several spoonfuls of raw sugar.

          • Brux

            >> Out of Harvard: White rice, brown rice, and risk of type 2
            >> diabetes: In these 3 prospective cohort studies of US men
            >> and women, we found that regular consumption of white
            >> rice was associated with higher risk of T2D, whereas
            >> brown rice intake was associated with lower risk.

            This does not really reconcile with the findings mentioned
            by Dr. Greger of the Kempner rice diet.

          • guest

            We know that you are creating multiple accounts to reply to yourself Mr Gains. You are not fooling anyone.

        • Michael Grains

          The dietary factor most strongly associated with the rise in
          Alzheimer’s disease in Japan was the increased consumption of animal
          fat.

          A similar analysis in China arrived at the same conclusion.
          On the basis of these findings, the rate of Alzheimer’s disease and
          dementia will continue to rise unless dietary patterns change to those
          with less reliance on animal products.

          This is consistent with
          data showing those who eat vegetarian appear two to three times less
          likely to become demented, and the longer one eats meat-free, the lower
          the associated risk of dementia.

          Globally, the lowest validated
          rates of Alzheimer’s in the world are rural India, where they eat low
          meat, high grain, high bean, high carb diets. Now it’s possible that the
          apparent protective association between rice and Alzheimer’s is more
          likely due to the fact that the drop of rice consumption was accompanied
          by a rise in meat consumption, but other population studies have found
          that dietary grains appear strongly protective in relation to
          Alzheimer’s disease. In other words, perhaps, don’t pass on the grain…
          pass the grain, to spare the brain.

          • Michael Gaines

            High fat saturated diets are known within the neuroscience fields as highly beneficial to this disease as well as epilepsy.

          • Michael Grains

            No. Saturated fat diets for epilpsy have long been debunked as quackery. You are grasping at straws.

        • Michael Grains

          Almost a thousand medicinal plants were described as antidiabetic
          agents, most of which have been used in traditional medicine, and these
          included beans. Of course, just because something has been used for
          centuries doesn’t mean it’s safe. Other treatments for diabetes have
          included arsenic and uranium. Thankfully many of these other remedies
          fell by the wayside, but scientific interest in the antidiabetic
          potential of beans never vanished completely and even was raised in the
          past decade.

          Health authorities from all over the world
          universally recommend increasing consumption of whole grains and legumes
          for health promoting diets. And one of the reasons is that they may
          decrease insulin resistance, the defining trait of type 2 diabetes.

          Diabetes
          is a global public health epidemic. Although, oral hypoglycemic
          medications and injected insulin are the mainstay of treatment of
          diabetes and are effective in controlling high blood sugars, they have
          prominent side effects and fail to significantly alter the course of
          diabetic complications. Common side effects include, weight gain,
          swelling, and liver disease. But I want to emphasize that second part.
          The mainstay of diabetic treatment fails to significantly alter the
          course of diabetic complications. Shouldn’t that be the whole point of
          treatment? Thankfully, lifestyle modifications have proven to
          be greatly effective in the management of this disease, and if there is
          one thing diabetics should eat, it’s legumes, beans, chickpeas, split
          peas, and lentils.

          The European Association for the study of
          diabetes, the Canadian Diabetes Association and the American Diabetes
          Association all recommend the consumption of dietary pulses as a means
          of optimizing diabetes control. What are pulses? They’re peas and beans
          that come dried, so a subset of legumes, excluding green beans and fresh
          green peas, which are considered more vegetable crops, and also
          excluding the so-called oilseeds—soybeans and peanuts.

          This review
          compiled 41 randomized controlled experimental trials, including more
          than a thousand patients, corroborating the diabetes association
          nutrition guidelines recommending the consumption of pulses as a means
          of optimizing diabetes control. Any pulses better than others? Some of
          the strongest evidence came from the studies that used chickpeas, and in
          terms of beans, pintos and black beans may beat out kidney beans.
          Compared to the blood sugar spike of straight white rice, black beans
          and rice, and pinto beans and rice appeared to beat out kidney beans and
          rice. This may be because dark red kidney beans may have lower levels
          of indigestible starch. One of the reasons beans are so healthy is they
          contain compounds that partially block our starch digesting enzyme,
          which allows some starch to make it down to our colon to feed our good
          gut bacteria.

          And in fact the inhibition of this starch-eating
          enzyme amylase just by eating beans, approximates that of a
          carb-blocking drug, acarbose, sold as Precose, a popular diabetes
          medication. The long-term use of beans may normalize hemoglobin A1C
          levels (which is how you track diabetes) almost as well as the drug,
          without drug side effects with names like acute generalized
          exanthematous pustulosis.

          • Michael Gaines

            May fo this; possibly does this; might help blah blah etc.

            Don’t get me wrong I’m okay with plants and natural.foods to address especially diabetes and obesity.

            I use cinnamon, chromiun, apple cider vinegar and whole food green leafy vegetables along with whole food saturated fats and olive oils and moderate protein to treat my diabetes.

            It’s eliminated over 390 or more shots of insulin in the last 11+ weeks By keeping both blood sugars and insulin levels low.

            I couldn’t be happier right now with my personal progress and I hope of other T2 diabetics out there believe they are hooked to insulins and oral medications for life know that they can indeed get control of this disease by diet.

          • Michael Grains

            Just like with heart disease, the same diet that prevents the disease in
            the first place can reverse the disease once you have it. You put 20
            diabetics, for example, on even a near-vegetarian diet, and in 16 days,
            half don’t need even need their insulin any more, and those who do are
            on half the dose. And that’s after only about 2 weeks.
            A randomized,
            controlled clinical trial put head-to-head the official American
            Diabetes Association diabetic diet versus a vegan diet. The ADA diet
            slowed the progression of disease, such that their diabetes was just a
            tiny bit worse at the end of the study period, but on the vegan diet,
            their diabetes actually got better. Significantly better. Just think how
            many lives a vegan diet could save, how many lives, eyes, kidneys,
            feet, and families.

        • Michael Grains

          It’s generally accepted that carbohydrate fermentation—the fiber and
          resistant starches that reach our colon—results in beneficial effects
          for the host because of the generation of short chain fatty acids like
          butyrate, whereas protein fermentation is considered detrimental for us.
          Protein fermentation mainly occurs in the lower end of colon, when
          carbohydrates get depleted and results in the production of potentially
          toxic metabolites. Perhaps that’s why we see more colorectal cancer and
          ulcerative colitis lower down, because that’s where the protein is
          putrefying. The simplest strategy to reduce the degree of potentially
          harmful compounds by protein fermentation is probably a reduction of
          dietary protein intake.

          But, the accumulation of these harmful
          byproducts of protein metabolism may be attenuated by the fermentation
          of undigested plant matter. This study showed that if you give people
          foods containing resistant starch—starch resistant to small intestine
          digestion so it can feed our good bacteria down in our colon, foods such
          as cooked beans, peas, lentils, raw oatmeal, and cold pasta—you can
          block the accumulation of potentially harmful byproducts of protein
          metabolism. The more starch ended up in the stool, the less ammonia, for
          example.

          But there’s protein in plants too. The difference is
          that animal proteins tend to have more sulfur-containing amino acids
          like methionine and they can be turned into hydrogen sulfide in our
          colon, the rotten egg gas that may play a role in the development of the
          inflammatory bowel disease, ulcerative colitis, as I’ve covered
          previously.

          The toxic effects of hydrogen sulfide appear to be
          mediated through blocking the ability of our colon cells from utilizing
          butyrate, which is what our good bacteria make from the fiber we eat. So
          it’s like this constant battle in our colon between the bad metabolites
          of protein, hydrogen sulfide, and the good metabolites of
          carbohydrates, butyrate. Using human colon samples they were able to
          show that the adverse effects of sulfide could be reversed by butyrate.
          So we can either cut down on meat, eat more plants, or both.

          But
          there’s two ways hydrogen sulfide can be produced. Though it’s mainly
          present in our large intestine as a result of the breakdown of
          sulfur-containing proteins, rotten egg gas can also be generated from
          inorganic sulfur preservatives like sulfites and sulfur dioxide.

          Sulfur
          dioxide is used as a preservative in dried fruit, and sulfites are
          added to wines. We can avoid sulfur additives by reading labels or by
          just choosing organic, since by law they’re forbidden from organic
          fruits and beverages. Cabbage family vegetables naturally have some
          sulfur compounds, but thankfully, after following more than a hundred
          thousand women for over 25 years, cruciferous vegetables were not associated with elevated colitis risk.

          But
          because of the animal protein and processed foods, the standard
          American diet may have five or six times more sulfur than a diet
          centered around unprocessed plant foods, which may help explain the
          rarity of inflammatory bowel disease among those eating traditional
          whole food plant-based diets.

    • Matthew

      Agreed. I know exactly where you are coming from. The most difficult thing is watching your loved one’s proceed with blinders on and their stubbornness to change their behavior.

      • Brux

        Scientists over the centuries have gotten a lot wrong, It might be correct to say someone who doesn’t subscribe to your particular views on diet has blinders on, or it might not. What makes you think we have all the information or know everything we need to know. OR, what makes you think that is the issue. I may know all kinds of great information and yet like many, we have been raised, brainwashed and habituated at a very ingrained deep level to like the foods we like. Over decades most of us have internalized feelings and behaviors around eating that we might even like to change, but that we simply cannot or will not. I was just watching the extended interviews to the Forks Over Knives documentary, where one of the doctors told him father who had had a heart attack and cardiac surgery that he needed to change his diet. His father’s response was, if I have to eat like this, (vegan) I’d rather be dead. All the blaming and emotional talk I hear doesn’t help anyone, except it may help those who like to rant feel better when they get a chance to rant.

        • Aneta Kaproń

          Brux, from this and previous posts (not just today) it seems that you find us all a little annoying? I don’t blame you but for me this website is a club of like-minded people who support each other in following what we believe is best for us. Even if all this science is a lot of tosh and by trying to be vegan or vegetarian we’re only fooling ourselves – well, we all like to hear good things about our bad habits.

          • John

            I don’t think everyone has to change everything overnight. A lot of good has been done by sharing a way to make something healthy taste good. All of the good cooks who eat healthily that I know have been and gradually are collecting a series of recipes and habits, many of them based on traditional recipes, that are good for you and taste good. That’s what I’m trying to do. If it’s horrible, I wont’ eat it. John S

          • Brux

            Aneta, being an optimist, I think most people are trying to genuinely do the right thing, but that ends up including a lot of people, including myself sometimes who get an idea that we know something and then go out to evangelize about it. The scenery changes. It appears now that diabetes is less about sugar and more about fats. I guess I find that annoying in that there is little editing or corrections of people who are sort of out of line, precisely because no one wants to dampen their enthusiasm. To me, selfishly I guess, it means I have to wade through many many posts, end eventually a majority of them as people battle on every video about the most weird things in their diets.

            I don’t think the science is a lot of tosh, and to me, that is what makes any of this reasoning worth following. But science itself is not perfect either, as we know. There are the honest scientists, their are the competent scientists, there are the statistical scientists, or the bought and paid for scientists. I tend to take very seriously any statement made.

            You seem to have a very social aspect to your participation here, you use the term “us” as if it is me against all of you. I hope not, and I would daresay if you read my comments I try to ask something to bring out more data or more illumination, at least I try.

            If I thought by being vegan people were only fooling themselves I would not be here, seriously. I am right on board with a lot of stuff that is said here, but some of it contradicts itself too, so it is not about just accepting everything that someone says.

            Then there are times when someone, who know who or why takes it on themselves to assume what is going on with someone else and prescribes dietary supplements. I think that can be dangerous. So, do I find people here annoying, no, there’s a lot of good comments and questions that enlighten, but I do find people who to me don’t seem to understand either the scientific method or the Socratic method a bit trying and sometimes scary.

            One other thing that I want to mention is that I think social networking is great, but I think it is not real, these are not real “friends” online, they are imaginary. A club made up of imaginary friends is a bit like living in a fantasy, and blind support in hopes of furthering imaginary relationships – to me, just seems kind of sad and ripe with the possiblity of undue influence so to speak. Anyway, I appreciate your opinion. I cannot always predict or help how something I might say with the best of intentions is interpreted.

    • Acreech

      You can lead a horse to water but can’t make him drink. I sent some relatives Dr. Barnard’s book on reversing diabetes and the Kickstart book and no change was seen in their diets. Unfortunately, people are addicted to the foods they love and, in the case of diabetes, are in heavy denial about their disease. This video is the third in a series addressing the cause of diabetes. Is Dr. Greger going to do one more to knock it out of the park while the bases are loaded?

      • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

        I am sure he will! Stay tuned for more videos on diabetes :-)

    • Michael Gaines

      My diabetes in full remission now 6 weeks eating a very satisfying ketogenic diet. I eat fat, tossed my insulin have eliminated over 200+ injections, have more energy and losing weight…

      You can’t eat rabbit food here and find success..

      https://news.osu.edu/news/2014/11/21/study-doubling-saturated-fat-in-the-diet-does-not-increase-saturated-fat-in-blood/

      • Charzie

        Coke can do the same thing, doesn’t mean it’s healthy in the long run though! I hardly eat rabbit food, a WFPB diet isn’t just greens! My diabetes has been in remission for 5 years and I feel better than I ever have and no more issues. I think that’s success.

        • Michael Gaines

          I’m happy for you.

          Research shows and my own results prove high fat works for me. I’m never satisfied eating turnips…

          I’m very satisfied eating fats,proteins and green leafy veggies. I don’t need nor want or desire starchy foods. They got me sick to begin with…

          • Ed

            I’d love to hear how you’re doing on your ketogenic diet 5 or 10 years down the road, seriously. Although, I think you might be a bit biased when you refer to a vegan diet as “rabbit food.” If starchy foods cause diabetes, then I must be a ticking time bomb for type two diabetes. I’ve been eating primarily starches for about 2 years now. I guess we’ll see. I tend to buy the “excess intramyocellular lipid” hypothesis of type two diabetes a bit more than the starchogenic hypothesis.

            By the way, I ate a turnip for the first time in my vegetable soup today (with lots of brown rice, of course). I like them, but I get my satisfaction from the whole-food starches.

          • Michael Gaines

            The OSU study recently released identified a fatty acid made in your liver when eating carbs or sugars that is the unhealthy fat causing inflammatory disease & insulin resistance. It’s created when you liver works to store fat on the body and it only creates this fatty acid when sugar or excess carbohydrates are consumed.
            https://news.osu.edu/news/2014/11/21/study-doubling-saturated-fat-in-the-diet-does-not-increase-saturated-fat-in-blood/

            I’m sure many more studies are forth coming.

            I woke up to a 106 glucose this morning. No more dawn affect…I used to wake up to 150 to 170 after taking insulin before bed…Now I take none- that’s got to be a real perk…

            Finally there are plenty of people that have been on ketogenic diets for over 20 years. In fact children that live long into adulthood that suffered from seizures that are cured by ketogenics live perfectly happy and normal lives…

            You really should do more research yourself…

          • AllVegan

            That is still an elevated glucose, It shows that there is still insulin resistance. Again adolescent seizures and hypothetical carb fatty acid relationships have nothing to do with this discussion. However it should be noted that people on a low fat high carb whole food diet are not at risk for inflammatory disease or insulin resistance. In fact again a low fat whole food plant based diet is the cure for inflammatory disease. http://nutritionfacts.org/2015/02/03/foods-that-fight-osteoarthritis-inflammation/

          • Michael Gaines

            Like I said, it’s a clinical study. There is nothing hypothetical about a fatty acid created only with carbohydrate. It’s a science fact now.

            These facts have everything to do with the topic.

            YOU DONT HAVE AnTI INFLAMMATORY BODy If YOU Eat sugars or carbohydrates to an excess. 300 to 550g of carbs a day is poison.

          • AllVegan

            Wow Michael, so we’re yelling now? So tell me are you a true believer and just evangelizing to seduce people into your way of thinking or is this like your day job for the coconut oil lobby? By the way the topic is your diabetes not some random healthy fatty acid which one of your gurus has tried to twist into a boogy man.

            Got Inflammation? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC296998/

          • Michael Gaines

            Yes you’re clearly perturbed that I’m advocating a high fat diet to reverse diabetes Over your low fat plant approach. I have experience with both and nothing has worked for me as well as high fat.

            So you like gov. Stat from ncbi… I’ve already posted a link that their own study concludes high fat does not cause cardiovascular disease and does very well at controlling blood glucose fir diabetics. So your own preferred sources support high fat diets with diabetics… Go figure a vegan with a double standard state of mind….

            I’m not seducing anyone. I’m simply sharing what’s helping and benefiting me after 2 years of trying everything on the books. You’re rejecting my progress and science that supports this methodology to help reverse diabetes.

            Earlier you claimed this fatty acid palmitoleic, improved insulin sensitivity. Where’s your clinical data that proves that. If it improves sensitivity with a cost of arterial inflammation tell me how that’s beneficial for cardiovascular issues?

          • AllVegan

            Hi Michael, I have to jump in here. First of starchy foods did not get you sick to begin with. Second You are still sick, just because you are able to manipulate your blood sugar by depriving your body of its natural source of energy, glucose, does not mean your diabetes is in remission. You are just masking the symptoms. The cause of Diabetes is Fat or intramyocellular lipids to be exact. You can cut out the carbs and mask the disease but until you get rid of the dietary fat you still have diabetes. Your cells are still not getting the energy they need to function properly and the only thing you have to show from your high fat / protein diet is a higher cancer and heart disease risk. Only a healthy whole foods plant based diet with no added fats or oils has been shown to reverse diabetes. http://nutritionfacts.org/video/what-causes-insulin-resistance/ http://nutritionfacts.org/video/Plant-Based-Diets-and-Diabetes

          • Michael Gaines

            Okay the article below was from 2009, I cut out much of it but you can google it on your own. The reason I choose an older article is because this isn’t new news. The science is repeatedly year after year right up the the OSU study a few weeks ago that proved the same points. I don’t know what’s wrong with you vegans, but science says you’re wrong.
            ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■
            The recent review I’m talking about is a meta-analysis published this week in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. It pooled together data from 21 unique studies that included almost 350,000 people, about 11,000 of whom developed cardiovascular disease (CVD), tracked for an average of 14 years, and concluded that there is no relationship between the intake of saturated fat and the incidence of heart disease or stroke.

            Let me put that in layperson’s terms for you:

            Eating saturated fat doesn’t cause heart disease.
            References:

            1. Fats and Fatty Acids in Human Nutrition. Annals of Nutrition and Metabolism, 2009; 55 (1-3).

            2. Siri-Tarino PW, et al. Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease Am J Clin Nutr 13 January 2010 [epub ahead of print].

            http://www.drbriffa.com/2010/01/15/two-major-studies-conclude-that-saturated-fat-does-not-cause-heart-disease/
            ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■
            Friday, January 15, 2010
            Saturated Fat Is Not Associated With CVD, Evidence of Publication Bias
            by Chris Masterjohn

            A recent meta-analysis in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition pooled together data from 21 unique studies that included almost 350,000 people, about 11,000 of whom developed cardiovascular disease (CVD), tracked for an average of 14 years, and concluded that there is no relationship between the intake of saturated fat and the incidence of heart disease or stroke. In fact, the “risk ratio” for the development of CVD as intake of saturated fat increased was 1.0, meaning that people who ate more saturated fat were no more or less likely to develop CVD.

            The authors also used a funnel plot to show that smaller studies more prone to error were more likely to show an association between saturated fat intake and CVD than were larger studies less prone to error.

            In the picture below, each square or diamond represents a study. If it is to the right of the vertical line down the middle, it reported an increase of CVD risk with increased intake of saturated fat. If it is to the left of the vertical line, it reported a decrease in risk. The studies plotted towards the top were larger and the studies plotted toward the bottom were smaller.

            If there is no publication bias, we would expect the studies to be distributed symmetrically around the average result of the total pooled data (in this case, a risk ratio of 1.0, meaning no effect). Publication bias tends to affect smaller studies — everyone wants to know the results of large, expensive, extensively publicized studies, but small studies will often go unpublished or ignored if they have negative results. In the picture, you can see that the smaller studies were greatly skewed towards finding an increase in CVD risk with increased intake of saturated fat, while the larger studies were more likely to find no effect.

            This does not prove, but suggests, that many small studies went unpublished or otherwise lost down the memory hole if they found no association or a negative association between intake of saturated fat and risk of CVD.

            All in all, however, we must remember that correlation never demonstrates causation. As I will be discussing in the upcoming sequel to my PUFA Report, the controlled intervention trials substituting polyunsaturated fats for saturated fats suggested that replacing foods like butter with foods like vegetable oil would increase the risk of cancer and possibly even hasten the development of atherosclerosis.

            It will be interesting to see how extensively the media publicizes this analysis — or will it be ignored?

            Read more about the author, Chris Masterjohn, PhD, here.

          • AllVegan

            Hi Michael, Although your response to my post is completely irrelevant to the subject “Diabetes” I will take a stab at it. First it appears that the study was looking at people who eat saturated fat vs people who eat more saturated fat. If this is the case I see no relevance to reality since neither is part of a healthy diet. It is like arguing whether twinkies or dingdongs is the healthier snack. However as it turns out Dr Greger has already addressed this issue: http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-saturated-fat-studies-buttering-up-the-public/ http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-saturated-fat-studies-set-up-to-fail/ As you have seen if you watched these videos is that the research you are quoting is nonsense designed by industry to mislead you. However none of this has anything to do with the fact that just because you have found an unhealthy way to control your blood sugar you are still sick and until you adopt a healthy diet you will not get well.

          • Michael Gaines

            I’m sure since the diabetes association and kidney foundations supported this John Hopkins study it too can’t be trusted…. sure… whatever…
            http://m.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/low_carb_higher_fat_diets_add_no_arterial_health_risks_to_obese_people_seeking_to_lose_weight

          • AllVegan

            You really don’t read these things or watch the videos do you. I am trying to help you out here. Read the article you referenced and see if you don’t agree that comparing a 30% fat diet to a 40% fat diet is not a well planned study. Of course there was no significant difference in arterial health between the two groups the were both on high fat diets. A healthy amount of fat in the diet is around 8 to 12% That is the amount which is in a healthy plant based whole foods diet with no added oils. If you want to stay sick that is fine but there are answers here I and others have offered you, you have an opportunity to learn something here why don’t you take advantage of it.

          • Michael Gaines

            Look for every study you have I can find two that disagree. Also I’ve already told you I will watch the videos tomorrow. I HIGHLY DOUBT your video address the new findings that the new OSU publication demonstraes. It’s new science and data that squarely shows a coorelate with carbohydrates causing the liver to create a harmful fatty acid.

            What I’m doing is working well. I’m not going to screw that up eating rice, potato, or popcorn, etc.

            I get dark green nutrients and that’s plenty.

          • Jim Felder

            Michael, I would like to ask you a question. If the research you site is correct that fat and saturated fat in particular are good for you and that carbohydrates are bad for you, especially with respect to diabetes, please explain the billions of people around the world that eat a 60%-80% carbohydrate diet with 10-15% fat and 10-15% protein that have diabetes rates so low that that they are hardly measurable. And also please explain how diabetes rates skyrocket in those populations like Japan in the 1960 and on and China today as those countries adopt a more Western diet lower in carbohydrates and higher in fat and protein. All the studies you site are incomplete at best if they can’t explain this huge body of evidence. Doing real science means that you can’t just ignore evidence that your theory is wrong.

          • Michael Gaines

            It’s because caloric content equally plays a role. I lived in Japan for 3 years and can tell you in the 70’s they ate fewer calories and infrequently between meals.. they weren’t snacks like most westerners are. So in lower caloric diets with starch they spike insulin level 3 times a day max.

            Westerners eat and snack all day long on refined foods and even eat before going to bed on these same refined foods and starches.

            Japanese in the late 70’s to present have adopted our bad habits and they too are struggling with bigger bodies than ever before…

          • Michael Gaines

            http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/

            So it appears when I was banned all my replies were deleted.

            I’m now 11 weeks into diabetes remission eating high fat low carbohydrate. I’ve eliminated about 375+ insulin injections and have an average BS of 115 in the last 60 days. Prior to my diet I was shooting insulin up to 6 times a day and sugars would swing from 55 to 300 with averages of 150 to 170.

            I’d say thus far the fat diet is working very nicely. Energy is high, weight coming down, etc…

            It’s all good. I’ve posted 23 studies alone above that clearly prove for diabetics and weight loss ketogenic eating is hard to beat.

            Even NIH links say so.

          • Linda N

            Boy it would be nice to be able to read the deleted posts to which people are responding.

          • Thule

            Those studies has been completely debunked, aren’t even relevant. Why?

            “As the Chair of Harvard’s nutrition department put it, their conclusions regarding the type of fat being unimportant are seriously
            misleading and should be disregarded, going as far as suggesting the paper be retracted, even after the authors corrected a half dozen different errors.”

            See here:

            http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-saturated-fat-studies-set-up-to-fail/

          • Michael Gaines

            They have not been debunked. I could go on all day with study after study and you would make the same claim without citing a single source that debunks a specific study.

            Try debunking this:
            http://m.circres.ahajournals.org/content/110/5/764.full

          • Thule

            You didn’t see the video do you?

            The study in itself isn’t valid, you would NEVER show a correlation with that method, it is mathematically impossible.

            The last study you present was done with mice, show that in humans.

          • Michael Gaines

            nope they have not been debunked you can’t call one Dr saying that something’s not true as debunking. please provide scientific citations that prove that it’s debunk because everything I’ve read says that is not bad for the human body. very little if any dietary fat gets into our bloodstream. fats that to get through are mostly highly beneficial and anti-inflammatory.

          • Michael Grains

            Cholesterol builds up not only inside the arteries that feed our heart muscle, but inside all
            of our blood vessels. In the heart, atherosclerosis can cause a heart
            attack. In the brain, it can cause a stroke. In our legs, it can cause
            peripheral vascular disease and result in debilitating cramping; in our
            vertebral arteries, it can cause disc degeneration and lower back pain.
            And clogs in our pelvic arteries can lead to sexual dysfunction

          • Michael Gaines

            Cholestetol is essential to your being alive. Without it you’re dead on arrival. We’re more concerned with the science of what is the ideal Qualities needed from Cholesterol?

          • Michael Grains

            Serum cholesterol concentration is clearly increased by adding
            dietary cholesterol. In other words, putting cholesterol in our mouth
            means putting cholesterol in our blood, and it may also potentiate the
            harmful effects of saturated fats, meaning when we eat sausage and eggs,
            the eggs may make the effects of the sausage even worse. If we ate the
            saturated fat and cholesterol found in two sausages and egg mcmuffins
            every day for two weeks, our cholesterol would shoot up nearly 30
            points. If we ate about the same saturated fat without the cholesterol,
            some kind of cholesterol-free sausage mcmuffins without the egg, what
            would happen? Now the egg would have saturated fat too, so to even it
            out we have to add three strips of bacon to this side. Same saturated
            fat, but two eggs worth less cholesterol, would only bump us up to here.
            So yes, saturated fat may increase fasting cholesterol levels more than
            dietary cholesterol, but especially in the presence of dietary
            cholesterol.

            And this is measuring fasting cholesterol, meaning
            the baseline from which all our meal-related cholesterol spikes would
            then shoot. Heart disease has been described as a postprandial
            phenomenon, meaning an after-meal phenomenon. Milky little droplets of
            fat and cholesterol straight from a meal called chylomicrons can build
            up in atherosclerotic plaques just like LDL cholesterol. So what happens
            after a meal that includes eggs?

            Here’s what happens to the level
            of fat and cholesterol in our blood stream for the 7 hours after eating
            a meal with no-fat, no-cholesterol. Hardly changes at all. But now a
            meal with fat and more and more egg yolk. Triglycerides shoot up, and
            blood cholesterol shoots up.

            That’s the kind of data that’s bad for egg sales, so how could you design a study to hide this fact?

            What
            if you only measured fasting cholesterol levels in the morning, seven
            hours after supper, you wouldn’t see a big difference between those that
            ate eggs the night before and those that didn’t. As the lead
            investigator of the smoking and egg study pointed out, measuring fasting
            cholesterol is appropriate for measuring the effects of drugs
            suppressing our liver’s cholesterol production, but not appropriate for
            measuring the effects of dietary cholesterol. After a cholesterol-laden
            supper, look what our arteries are being pummeled with all night long.
            And think about the day. How many hours are there between meals? Maybe
            four hours between breakfast and lunch? So if we had eggs for breakfast
            we’d get that big spike and by lunch start the whole cycle of fat and
            cholesterol in our arteries all over again. So most of our lives are
            lived in a postprandial state, in an after-meal state, and this shows
            that the amount of cholesterol in those meals—they actually used eggs in
            this study, so the amount of egg in our meals makes a big difference
            when it really matters—after we’ve eaten, which is where we spend most
            of our lives. So that’s why when the Egg Board funds a study they only
            measure fasting cholesterol levels way out here somewhere.

          • Michael Gaines
          • AllVegan

            Hi Michael, I am familiar with this “research” This is the same sort of nonsense you put in your last post. You really are just looking for conclusions which justify your beliefs aren’t you? This study compared people with no more than 40% fat in their diet to people with no less than 30% fat in their diet. Again neither of these diets are healthy diets. This one proves that if you are going to eat unhealthy high fat diets it doesn’t matter if it is 30 or 40% fat. However back to the issue at hand, you have just masked the symptoms of your diabetes to much fat in the diet is the cause. Until you address this fact you will not regain your health http://nutritionfacts.org/video/paleo-diets-may-negate-benefits-of-exercise/

          • Michael Gaines
          • AllVegan

            Michael are you not even willing to spend a couple of minutes watching the evidence Dr Greger has presented and I have offered to you here in this forum. It is clear that you have not even watched the video which you are commenting about. Have you watched any of the videos I linked to to support my argument? It is not enough to just keep harping on a couple of poorly designed studies which can be misinterpreted to support your beliefs.

          • Michael Gaines

            2nd time I told you. I’ll watch your video tomorrow.. Your not the judge of what’s poor or rich when it comes to clinical studies. There are plenty thst clearly show good science say high fat is not bad… You have simply drank way to much vegan koolaid.

            To be continued…

          • Michael Gaines

            Also if you understood high insulin is the cause of diabetes and that insulin secretes as a response of high glucose or carbohydrates you would see how illogical it is to try and pin the causation of diabetes on dietary saturated fats. How many 1000’s of more studies do you need to see that conclusively proves this as fact before you finally accept it?

            Now everyone agrees most likely CVD is higher if one has higher saturated fats in their circulatory systems; yet dietary fats don’t increase serum levels of saturated fats in our blood.

            The OSU study that came out weeks ago clearly proves though there is a fatty acid that is indeed responsible. However that fatty acid is only created as a response from over consumption or excess sugars and carbohydrates. Apparently the liver creates this harmful fat in its process to store body fat but only in the presence of sugars and excess carbs.

            http://m.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/low_carb_higher_fat_diets_add_no_arterial_health_risks_to_obese_people_seeking_to_lose_weight

            https://news.osu.edu/news/2014/11/21/study-doubling-saturated-fat-in-the-diet-does-not-increase-saturated-fat-in-blood/

          • AllVegan

            Hi Michael, Ho Hum Ok, Those are the same two articles I have addressed previously and I assume you have watched the videos I linked to which gave you all the information and relevant studies you need to know that both of these studies are bunk. However to address your opening statement. You see the difference between you an me is that I have some understanding of how the human digestive system works. If you did then you would know that high insulin is not the cause of diabetes. intramyocellular lipids, that is fat in the cells blocks the insulin receptors which does not allow insulin to do its job feeding glucose to your cells. As a result the body produces more insulin in a desperate attempt to get the cells of the body fed. This is called insulin resistance, it is also called science there is no dispute about this. Once you take the fat out of the diet the fat can be cleaned out of the cells and the insulin process returns to normal unless you have already damaged your body beyond repair. However even then allowing the cells of the body to accept nourishment again is a good thing. Here is a link to the video about insulin resistance how about watching it this time. I am trying to help you. http://nutritionfacts.org/video/what-causes-insulin-resistance/

          • Michael Gaines

            Reread the OSU study. Reread the Hopkins study.

            None blame saturated dietary fats.

            The OSU article says it’s fat alright. Fat created in the liver only with excess carbohydrates. Your video does not adress this new clinical discovery…

          • AllVegan

            Michael try to think now, In what population that eats a whole foods plant based diet is heart disease a problem? Right there isn’t one. Another poorly designed study intended to mislead people. Next? Although you have not produced a link to this study so I am not really sure it exists.

          • AllVegan

            Oh you are talking about Palmitoleic Acid, It is an omega 7 fatty acid which is non essential since the body makes it. It is the only fatty acid they have found so far which acts somewhat like a hormone. It appears that the its most popular function is that it increases insulin sensitivity. It seems to be at the core of the latest supplement crase. Perhaps you want to check it out it might help bring those elevated fasting insulin levels you have back into a more normal range. Since you seem intent on masking your diabetes symptoms instead of dealing with the underlying problem. However this has nothing to do with anyone on a healthy plant based diet, as those of us eating this healthy traditional diet are not storing fat, being the only group which is consistently in the normal weight range.

            http://nutritionfacts.org/video/thousands-of-vegans-studied/

          • Michael Gaines

            “It’s unusual for a marker to track so closely with carbohydrate intake, making this a unique and clinically significant finding. As you increase carbs, this marker predictably goes up,” Volek said.The researchers found that total saturated fat in the blood did not increase – and went down in most people – despite being increased in the diet when carbs were reduced. Palmitoleic acid, a fatty acid associated with unhealthy metabolism of carbohydrates that can promote disease, went down with low-carb intake and gradually increased as carbs were re-introduced to the study diet.In the study, participants were fed six three-week diets that progressively increased carbs while simultaneously reducing total fat and saturated fat, keeping calories and protein the same.

            When that marker increases, he said, it is a signal that an increasing proportion of carbs are being converted to fat instead of being burned as fuel. Reducing carbs and adding fat to the diet in a well-formulated way, on the other hand, ensures the body will promptly burn the saturated fat as fuel – so it won’t be stored.

            “When you consume a very low-carb diet your body preferentially burns saturated fat,” Volek said. “We had people eat 2 times more saturated fat than they had been eating before entering the study, yet when we measured saturated fat in their blood, it went down in the majority of people. Other traditional risk markers improved, as well.”

            The research is published in the Nov. 21, 2014, issue of the journal PLOS ONE.

            Volek and colleagues recruited 16 adults for the study, all of whom had metabolic syndrome, defined as the presence of at least three of five factors that increase the risk for heart disease and diabetes (excess belly fat, elevated blood pressure, low “good” cholesterol, insulin resistance or glucose intolerance, and high triglycerides).

            After getting them to a baseline reduced-carb diet for three weeks, researchers fed the participants the exact same diets, which changed every three weeks, for 18 weeks. The diets started with 47 grams of carbs and 84 grams of saturated fat each day, and ended with 346 carb grams per day and 32 grams daily of saturated fat.

            Each day’s meals added up to 2,500 calories and included about 130 grams of protein. The highest-carb level represented 55 percent of daily calories, which roughly matches the estimated daily percentage of energy provided by carbs in the American diet.

            Compared to baseline, there were significant improvements in blood glucose, insulin and blood pressure that were similar across diets. Participants, on average, lost almost 22 pounds by the end of the trial.

            When looking at palmitoleic acid, however, the scientists found that it consistently decreased on the high-fat/low-carb diet in all participants. The fatty acid then showed a step-wise increase in concentration in the blood as carbs were progressively added to the diet. Elevated levels of palmitoleic acid in the blood have been linked to obesity and higher risk for inflammation, insulin resistance, impaired glucose tolerance, metabolic syndrome, type-2 diabetes, heart disease and prostate cancer.

            The study does not address what happens to palmitoleic acid levels when high carbs are combined with a diet high in saturated fat. Instead, Volek hoped to identify the carb-intake point at which participants began to store fat.

            “That turned out to be highly variable,” he said. “Everyone showed increased palmitoleic acid levels as carbs increased, but values varied widely between individuals, especially at the highest carb intake. This is consistent with the idea that people vary widely in their tolerance to carbohydrates.”

            Participants’ existing health risks were not a factor in the study because everyone ate the exact same diet for 18 weeks. Their bodies’ responses to the food were the focus of the work.

            “There is widespread misunderstanding about saturated fat. In population studies, there’s clearly no association of dietary saturated fat and heart disease, yet dietary guidelines continue to advocate restriction of saturated fat. That’s not scientific and not smart,” Volek said. “But studies measuring saturated fat in the blood and risk for heart disease show there is an association. Having a lot of saturated fat in your body is not a good thing. The question is, what causes people to store more saturated fat in their blood, or membranes, or tissues?

            “People believe ‘you are what you eat,’ but in reality, you are what you save from what you eat,” he said. “The point is you don’t necessarily save the saturated fat that you eat. And the primary regulator of what you save in terms of fat is the carbohydrate in your diet. Since more than half of Americans show some signs of carb intolerance, it makes more sense to focus on carb restriction than fat restriction.”

            Volek sees this palmitoleic acid as a potential biomarker to signal when the body is converting carbs to fat, an early event that contributes to what he calls “metabolic mayhem.”

            “There is no magical carb level, no cookie-cutter approach to diet, that works for everyone,” he said. “There’s a lot of interest in personalized nutrition, and using a dynamically changing biomarker could provide some index as to how the body is processing carbohydrates.”

          • Michael Gaines

            injectable insulin itself is only treating a symptom of diabetes. so if one controls or diabetes with fat to treat the same symptom that in itself it’s a good thing. there are plenty of people who have successfully reverse there Diabetes eating a high-fat diet. I have people telling me fat will make My Diabetes worse. yet the only thing that made My Diabetes worse was taking insulin and eating in an American Diabetes Association diet plan according to my nutritional specialist and endocrinologist. well the joke’s on them, because my sugars are highly regulated eating a ketogenic diet. that’s all that matters here, I’m treating the symptoms of my disease very successfully with high fat in my diet…

          • Brux

            With all due respect … I got a bunch of emails about updates to this board,
            and I see your name on all of them.

            When I read them they are all very student about pushing a certain point of
            view. I think you ought to go start your own site and push your point of view
            there … not because of anything other than you make all these claims based
            solely on YOU!

            That is not the way science or argument works. I am glad you are or you think
            you are happy and doing well – more power to you. But I don’t really give a
            damn about what you say worked for you because there is no way for you to
            prove anything you say. So, really, offering it as some kind of panacea is what?
            for you to validate yourself and look smart, or for other people to listen to and
            emulate? I don’t think any responsible person anywhere would suggest that
            anyone listen to an emulate a lone voice on an Internet forum … there are way
            too many of them that have an agenda, are crazy, or are just trolls trying to mess
            with people in a negative way.

            My interpretation of what these kinds of sites are and when they work best is
            when people read and remember what they hear and then discuss theory,
            practice and logic of the science and and also point out fallacies and lacks in
            logic and reasoning. You may have it all figured out and dialed in … for you …
            but I don’t see what you point is in posting here.

            Maybe you can reiterate it simply for me. Are you trying to disagree with
            veganism? Are you trying to say that WFPB is wrong or bad? Are you trying
            to reconcile your experience with the data presented here. All I see is a bunch
            or arguing … and not in the logical sense of presenting rationalizations of
            your beliefs and conclusions, but just picky arguments that go back and forth
            and never build to get anywhere.

          • Michael Gaines

            Well, I’ve already spoken to the moderators and they have been quite clear it’s okay to discuss alternative dietary topics and alternative approaches to health.

            Who are you? What are you so concerned or bothered or desire to censor anyone that doesn’t agree with you lock stock and barrel?

            I’m not making a claim. I’m stating a personal fact in how LCHF eating has put a serious case of diabetes into full remission. I’ve also clearly stated I’m not anti vegan, or anti vegetarian as people need to really find what works best for them. Plants don’t cure everything, nor does Fats or Proteins. If you’re normal without metabolic syndrome you can eat a moderation of all of these foods and live a long healthy life.

            I’m no longer normal since I have diabetes, although diabetes seems to becoming a new norm in our country… So I shared my success eating a ketogenic diet , high in fat, moderate in protein, and low in carbohydrate (with my specifically stating I eat plenty of green highly nutrient vegetables) . I just don’t eat starchy veggies or sugar, or anything that solicits a high blood sugar and insulin response in my body. I’m 11 weeks now into an insulin free period doing a ketogenic diet. It’s not a claim– it’s a fact and it’s a fact its helping me greatly. If I can share this story and help someone else– you shouldn’t be afraid of that…

            Personally, I think if a person isn’t suffering from a metabolic disorder that a mostly WFPB diet is indeed a healthy way to eat. But if you’re metabolically struggling it can be a detriment especially if you eat WFPB starchy foods that convert to sugar rapidly in your body or it you eat other refined carbohydrates and the sugars they are loaded with etc… You will need to keep taking diabetes drugs to deal with sugar issues. At least in my case I did… I’ve tried WFPB and my dependency of insulin went up— because I did not strictly at first avoid starchy potatoes, grains, etc… All of these are toxic to me in that they always and I mean always raise my blood sugars.

            I’ve shared plenty of logic regarding why this works for me. It’s clear Dietary FAT does not at all spike blood sugar or insulin. It’s clear Protein only if overly consumed invokes and a sugar or insulin spike. It’s clear Carbohydrates easily spike blood sugar and insulin levels especially in T2D because these people mostly almost always over secrete too much insulin to the slightest amount of carbohydrate. Insulin is there essential buddy and enemy at the same time. To control my blood sugars I have discovered it’s best to lower blood sugar and insulin simultaneously and a higher dietary fat diets does this nicely. In fact I can lower blood sugar readily by eating a fatty food and it lasts longer than my Novolog injectable insulin and controlling my blood sugars.

            Right now you’re the one trying to look smart here or creating a panacea. Using inflammatory language to express anger by saying you don’t give a “damn” or then implying I’m a troll or agenda minded crazy person. Actually… this doesn’t sound like me at all… But it does sound like someone trying to communicate as an intellectual in a shallow way. Wonder who that might be?

            My point of coming here is to gain new knowledge as I’m not a hardened fanatic about the preferences of food. I do believe a balanced diet is best if all is done in moderation. I got into this mess simply through a self learning process like many do. I’ve listened to lectures about every diet under the moon. But by far for me— yes again me… the LCHF approach is working well both short and long term. If you try one thing and it doesn’t work—it’s best to try something else. Who knows— maybe you have WFPB diabetics that are still injecting insulins or taking metformin, etc… If I can share my success with them perhaps some of them will discover they to can put diabetes into remission. Who knows— maybe even the dark green veggies I add with all my high fat meals is even at play here making me better… I can only report what my glucose meter reports. Also it’s fallacy for you to state I only share details about me. I’ve clearly posted plenty of clinical data to include data from the National Institute of Health with peer reviewed data that clearly shows diabetic indeed appear to benefit from high fat diets without adverse impact to cardiovascular health. Like I said on another post— my cardiologist highly recommended I embrace a low carbohydrate diet.

            Now if you’re into censorship, you should have that added to your charter. But I’ve already spoken to the moderators and they are not into censorship whereby they only desire to hear stories or questions, etc… from devoted vegans or vegetarians…

            If anything, if I’m so misguided you ought to present the data that helps me see things differently… But equally you need to be open to reviewing the studies that counter your data or beliefs.

            I don’t think were all bio identical. If you have a peanut allergy you don’t eat peanuts now do you? Most people aren’t born with peanut allergies either– they develop them later in life. I see diabetes in a similar light. Most people aren’t born with it and those that are usually are T1D, not T2D. At some point it seems most people are developing insulin resistance or diabetes it’s becoming the norm today. I’ve learned this disease starts perhaps decades before we realize we have it because it goes undetected because our blood sugars are normal during our doctors visits. Instead the doctors should be checking fast insulin to determine if a person is secreting to much insulin to control their blood sugars. Its the excess insulin T2D secrete that is causing this dreadful syndrome.

            Picky arguments only come into play when someone challenges the success of an approach they don’t agree with. There is data on both sides of this fence worth hearing and learning from. I’m sharing from a personal experience and my own education after having listened to lecture after lecture on this topic. Yes, when someone tells me I need to eat more potato and rice– I reject that. It’s not picky, it’s a science fact those are rich in sugars once consumed in the body. If your a diabetic it’s literally toxic without you injecting insulin to control blood sugars. That’s not being picky, I can show a 4 year old the science here and they would get it.

            1. I think veganism is fine if you are healthy eating that way.
            2. I think vegetarian is fine to and is healthy
            a) provided you get enough protein and other essential vitamins

            3) I think fasting is fine and healthy for nearly everyone that’s overweight
            4) I think intermittent fasting is fine for nearly everyones health
            5) I think LCHP is efficient at losing weight quickly, yet not sustainable and it to can be healthy if you eat the highly green nutrient rich plant foods.
            6) I think LCHF is efficient at controlling metabolic disorders through my own experience and 1000’s of others experience too. The clinical data seems clear if can be done safely and it can get most people off diabetes drugs quickly. In my case it took 3 days and I no longer needed insulin. Again, this diet is best done with high nutrient rich green vegetables in moderate quantities.

            There I think I’ve answered all your questions. Yet I doubt I’ve satisfied your desire to have me bound and gagged…

          • Brux

            >> Who are you? What are you so concerned or bothered or
            >> desire to censor anyone that doesn’t agree with you lock
            >> stock and barrel?

            I think you are getting more than a little defensive.

            I don’t want to censor you, if you have a point, I’d like to hear
            it. The reason I made my comment is that your overly verbose,
            know it all, posts and their tone, to me, makes it more difficult
            to want to read your posts and hear whatever it is you have to
            say. When you go on at length about something that you are
            only relying on your personal experience, it is a kind of subliminal
            signal not to take your post seriously.

            I am not trying to tell you want to do, I am expressing how it makes
            me personally react, and how you might do it better. If you do not
            agree of think there is no value in my critique, you are free to ignore
            me as I am free to ignore your posts.

          • Michael Gaines

            Honestly you don’t have to read it then. It’s a free world even today. I can’t worry about everyone’s feeling personally and that’s impossible to do in cyberspace to boot. Ahhh your last note to me was verbose– I even sent you another verbose reply.

          • Brux

            >> But if you’re metabolically struggling it can be a detriment
            >> especially if you eat WFPB starchy foods that convert to sugar
            >> rapidly in your body or it you eat other refined carbohydrates
            >> and the sugars they are loaded with etc…

            OK, good, I think this is the core of your argument, but I see
            not orderly support for it. In my opinion trying to support or
            base any conclusions on dueling studies is a waste of time.

            What convinces me is a preponderance of the simple evidence.
            That is just me, but taking a statement and trying to prove it
            by obfuscation or beating the proverbial dead horse doesn’t do
            it. Also, when you have a point, such as you do have, and I do
            not disagree or agree, think about how you would convince
            someone who did not know what you were talking about.

            This everything and the kitchen sink approach may make you
            feel like you’ve made an airtight case, but in my opinion again,
            this site is not for making absolute cases, but to question and
            tease out facts and trends from studies and experiences that
            do not always make rational sense.

            Just another unrelated comment about people’s personal
            anecdotal ideas. I have a friend who is well tangled up into
            the medical industrial complex, having had multiple heart
            surgeries and stents and now has been told even though she
            did everything more or less correctly that she is going to die
            in the next year. Something I don’t think they have any idea
            about.

            She, and everyone else goes by the story and model she
            gets from her doctors, and things that she reads and absorbs
            from various places. That internal context can really cure or
            kill someone. I point her to this site because I believe that in
            her case, artery blockages, that eating vegan and low fat
            is her way forward. Not everyone starts from the same
            inititial conditions.

            You have normal relatively healthy people, people with
            different genetics, people with some type of disease, diabetes,
            heart, artery, problems, etc. The same kind of diet may not be
            indicated for people, so it should be made clear the restrictions
            that people are talking about. I am suggesting that the idea of
            a vegetarian or anything else diet as a cure all for everyone in
            every circumstance, which does seem to be pushed in many of
            the vegan doctor’s websites, is questionable.

          • Michael Gaines

            I’m all about logic and studies… Although we have been misled it seems by studies too— this makes it hard at times to really know who is right or wrong, etc.

            Correlation doesn’t represent causation at all. The Ancel Keys study did not clearly show Fat was a dietary culprit in our diets. In fact he omitted 14 of his 21 countries from his study because the data didn’t fit his desired reasoning.

            What we eat and the ratios of what we eat and how clinical studies are performed can easily sway things to support a general idea or bias. The really good scientist work very hard to avoid being misleading with respect to their studies. But everyone out here isn’t honorable, as many have their biases.

            I’ve referred to .gov studies, as well as studies from universities, and even some sponsored by the poultry industries. My take on funded by friendly business is if it’s good for the goose it’s good for the gander. Most likely if these tests don’t pan out in favor of the sponsoring business they don’t get published as easily… I think this is true for the agriculture and meat industries alike. So it become difficult to know what we the normal people can truly take to the bank or should dismiss outright… All we can do really is share what we hear or learn, and bounce it off everyone.

            What I don’t need is when I tell someone what is really working for me is to try and scare me into believing it’s going to kill me– especially when the science studies I’m reading say absolutely will not… It’s one thing to express concern– another to try to invoke unfounded fear— or at least back that up with opposing science so I can compare it to my own studies to find it’s merits if they do exist.

            The doctor that told your friend she was going to die is only correct to the point “Were all going to die.” Multiple stents is indeed troublesome as it shows continued progression in her heart disease and vascular disease. I have a brother in law that has over 9 stints installed and his first one was in his early 30’s. There is a video on Netflix right now just recently added that talks about how preventable this disease is by recognizing you have it early with a heart scan. The medical industry rejected it when they learned they could earn 30 to 50K a patient stinting them , yet only 300.00 doing a heart scan.

            Now eating vegan may very well help her but I believe only if she tightly controls the starchy vegetables and sugars. There isn’t really a top secret ingredient in the vegetables that unclogs blockages if there were science and business would be making miracle drugs that would work like liquid drano with it… The trick with WFPB is identical to the trick provided by high fat/protein diets in that both LCPB food is highly anti-inflammatory to our circulatory system. The same is true for fats and proteins they are not provoking inflammation. The common denominator for inflammation is clearly sugar and refined carbohydrates and decades of over consumption in most literature I’ve read or studied.

            So if you eat WFPB but still eat sugar and high carbohydrates I believe you’re still prone to CVD. If you eat high fat and protein and you eat high carbohydrates and sugars you too are prone to CVD. They key time both groups are not prone is when both restrict anything that provokes high insulin levels and high blood sugar level. That’s also why fasting and caloric deficit diets work too… if you’re eating less calories than your metabolic rate you have time to burn the energy up throughout the day. But eat at or above your resting metabolic rate your going to be at risk for CVD and diabetes.

            I’m fine with veggy advocates as its clear there is great nutrition in plants. But it’s unfortunate many take that to mean it’s okay to eat all sorts of high carbohydrate foods full of refined flours and sugars. Even if you’re a vegan you eat enough of that stuff like chips, cookies, pizza etc… it too will make folks sick. I’ve seen plenty of overweight & obese vegetarians too— and don’t think its the green leafy stuff that got them that way…

            Your friend should fire her doctor if he was telling her she would be dead in a year. It’s time to find a new doctor.

          • Michael Grains

            Our epidemics of dietary disease have prompted a great deal of
            research into what humans are meant to eat for optimal health. In 1985,
            an influential article was published proposing that our chronic diseases
            stem from a disconnect between what our bodies evolved eating during
            the Stone Age during the last 2 million years and what we’re stuffing
            our face with today, advocating for a return towards a hunter-gatherer
            type diet of lean meat, fruits, vegetables, and nuts.

            Though it may be reasonable to assume our nutritional requirements were established in the prehistoric past, the question of which
            prehistoric past remains. Why just the last 2 million? We’ve been
            evolving for 25 million years since our common great ape ancestor during
            which our nutrient requirements and digestive physiology were set down,
            and therefore probably little affected by our hunter-gatherer days at
            the tail end. So what were we eating for the first 90% of our evolution?
            What the rest of the great apes ended up eating – 95 plus percent
            plants.

            This may explain why we’re so susceptible to heart
            disease. For most of human evolution, cholesterol may have been
            virtually absent from the diet. No bacon, butter, trans fats and massive
            amounts of fiber, which pulls cholesterol from the body. Now this could
            be a problem since our body needs a certain amount of cholesterol, so
            our bodies didn’t just evolve to make cholesterol, but to preserve it,
            recycle it; our bodies evolved to hold on to cholesterol. And so if you
            think of the human body as a cholesterol conserving machine and plop it
            into the modern world of bacon/eggs/cheese/chicken/pork/pastry, well
            then no wonder artery-clogging heart disease is our #1 cause of death.
            What used to be so adaptive for 90% of our evolution, holding on to
            cholesterol at all costs since we aren’t getting much in our diet, is
            today maladaptive, a liability leading to the clogging of our arteries.
            Our bodies just can’t handle it.

            As the editor-in-chief of the American Journal of Cardiology
            noted 25 years ago, no matter how much fat and cholesterol carnivores
            eat, they do not develop atherosclerosis. You can feed a dog 500 eggs
            worth of cholesterol and a stick of butter and they just wag their tail;
            their body is used to eating and getting rid of excess cholesterol
            whereas within months, a fraction of that cholesterol can start clogging
            the arteries of animals adapted to eating a more plant-based diet.

            Even
            if our bodies were designed by natural selection to eat mostly fruit,
            greens and seeds for 90% of our evolution, why didn’t we better adapt to
            meat-eating in the last 10%, during the Paleolithic? We’ve had nearly 2
            million years to get used to all that extra saturated fat and
            cholesterol. If a lifetime of eating like that clogs up nearly
            everyone’s arteries, why didn’t the genes of those that got heart
            attacks die off and get replaced by those that could live to a ripe old
            age with clean arteries regardless what they ate?

            Because most
            didn’t survive into old age, they didn’t live long enough to get heart
            attacks. When the average life expectancy is 25, then the genes that get
            passed along are those that can just live to reproductive age by any
            means necessary, and that means not dying of starvation so the higher
            the calorie foods, the better. So eating lots of bone marrow and brains,
            human and otherwise, would have a selective advantage, as would
            discovering a time machine stash of Twinkies for that matter. If we just
            have to live long enough to get our kids to puberty to pass along our
            genes, then we don’t have to evolve any protections against the ravages
            of chronic disease.

            To find a population nearly free of chronic
            disease in old age, we don’t have to go back a million years. In the
            20th century, networks of missionary hospitals in rural Africa found
            coronary artery disease virtually absent, and not just heart disease,
            but high blood pressure, stroke, diabetes, common cancers, and on down
            the list.

            In a sense, these populations in rural China and Africa
            were eating the type of diet we’ve been eating for 90% of the last 20
            million years–a diet almost exclusively of plant foods. How do we know
            it was their diet and not something else?

            In the 25 year update to
            their original paleo paper, they tried to clarify that they did not
            then and do not now propose that people adopt a particular diet just
            based on what our ancient ancestors ate. Dietary recommendations must be
            put to the test. That’s why the pioneering research from Pritikin,
            Ornish, and Esselstyn is so important, showing that plant-based diets
            can not only stop heart disease but have been proven to reverse it in
            the majority of patients. Indeed, it’s the only diet that ever has.

          • Brux

            Great series of posts. Very clear, factually backed up, and logical.

          • Michael Gaines

            That’s why one diet does not fit all people in a bio-identical way.

            Most type O blood type people fo very well on low carbohydrate high fat diets. They are the original hunter gather blood types thst evolved. All blood tupes evolved based on the dietary habits of populations.

          • Michael Grains

            Dr. Peter D’Adamo’s book Eat Right for Your Type makes the astounding claim that people with different blood types should eat different foods. Type O’s, for example, are supposed to be like the hunter and eat a lot of meat, whereas type A’s are supposed to eat less. A 2013 systematic review of the evidence supporting blood type diets was published in one of the world’s most prestigious nutrition journals. The researchers didn’t find any.

            The
            researchers sifted through over a thousand papers that might shed some
            light on the issue, and none of the studies showed an association
            between blood type diets and health-related outcomes. They conclude that “there is currently no evidence that an adherence to blood type diets will provide health benefits, despite the substantial presence and perseverance of blood type diets within the health industry.”

            Ten years earlier, the Journal of the Norwegian Medical Association released
            a number of papers that came out of a day-long scientific seminar held
            by the Norwegian Society for Nutrition. 40,000 copies of the Eat Right for Your Type had been sold in Norway, and so the researchers sought to determine whether blood type diets were visionary science or nonsense. They also concluded that they are nonsense.

            The author of the blood type diet book responded to the review on his website, saying that “there is good science behind the blood type diet, just like there was good science behind Einstein’s mathematical calculations.” He says that if blood type diets were just tested in the right way, like Einstein’s E=MC2, he would be vindicated. The reason we don’t see any studies on blood types
            and nutrition, he complains, is “because of little interest and
            available money.” But he’s sold more than seven million books. Why
            doesn’t he fund his own studies? That’s what the Atkins Corporation did.

            In fact, he has! In 1996, he wrote, “I am beginning the eighth year of a ten year trial on reproductive cancers, using the Blood Type Diets … By the time I release the results in another 2 years, I expect to make it scientifically demonstrable that the Blood Type Diet plays a role in cancer remission.” OK, so that would be 1998. The results? Still not released, sixteen years later.

            Good
            tactic, though, saying you’re just about to publish a study and banking
            that nobody would actually follow up. So in his sequel, he said he was
            currently conducting a “twelve-week randomized, double-blind, controlled
            trial implementing the Blood Type Diet, to determine its effects on the outcomes of patients with rheumatoid arthritis.” (See my video Blood Type Diet Debunked). That was ten years ago.

            As my Norwegian colleague bemoaned, “it is difficult not to perceive the whole thing as a crass fraud.”

            So rarely are popular press diet
            books afforded such fact-checking. Kudos to these researchers. If only
            we had this 13 years ago when the book was on the bestseller list!

          • Michael Grains

            Free fatty acids, meaning free fat circulating in the bloodstream not
            packaged into triglycerides, result in inflammation, toxic fat
            breakdown products, oxidative stress, which can gum up the insulin
            receptor pathway and lead to insulin resistance in our muscles. And
            insulin resistance is what causes prediabetes and type 2 diabetes.

            As
            the level of fat in the blood rises the body’s ability to clear sugar
            from the blood drops. Where does this fat in our blood that’s wreaking
            all this havoc come from? It comes from the fat that we eat and from the
            fat that we wear.

            The number of fat cells we have stays constant
            in adulthood. It’s interesting, the way they figured that out is by
            measuring the amount of radioactive carbon trapped in our DNA from all
            the nuclear bomb tests. Anyway, after massive weight loss, our fat cells
            shrink as they offload fat, but the number stays the same. Conversely,
            when we gain weight, our fat cells just stretch as we pack more and more
            into each individual fat cell. So when our belly, butt or thighs get
            big we’re not adding more fat cells we’re just cramming more fat into
            each cell. At a certain point our cells become so bloated that they
            spill fat back into the bloodstream.

            This is an illustration of
            the so-called spillover effect. Not only does an obese person have more
            fat, but they’re constantly spilling that fat into their bloodstream. So
            that could be the link between obesity and diabetes. Fat is spilling
            out from our fat cells and gets lodged in our muscle cells, leading to
            the insulin resistance that promotes the onset of type 2 diabetes.

            Or
            the fat can enter our bloodstream through our mouth. If you put people
            on a low carb diet, fat builds up in their muscle within two hours,
            compared to a low fat diet, and insulin sensitivity drops. And the more
            fat in the muscle, the lower the ability to clear sugar from the blood.
            It doesn’t take years for this to happen, just hours after these foods
            go into our mouths. A fat-rich diet can increase fat in the blood and
            this increase is accompanied by a decrease in insulin sensitivity.

            Studies
            clearly demonstrate that fat in the blood directly inhibit glucose
            transport and usage in our muscles, which is responsible for clearing
            about 85% of the glucose out of blood. These findings also indicate an
            important role of nutrition, particularly increased consumption of fat,
            for the development of insulin resistance.

            Normally we only have 1
            to 500 micromoles of free fat floating around in our blood stream at
            any one time, but those who are obese are constantly spilling fat out
            into their bloodstream. But we can reach those same levels in our blood
            eating a high fat diet. So a skinny person eating a low carb diet can
            have the same level of fat in their blood that obese people do.
            Similarly being obese is like eating some horrible bacon and butter diet
            all day, because obese persons are constantly spilling fat into their
            bloodstream no matter what goes in their mouth.

          • Michael Gaines

            The truth is no matter what diet you eat your body demands fat for its very survival. Fat is 100% essential and you would die within a week without dietary or body fat in your system. This is an irrefutable fact.

          • Michael Grains

            To lower our cholesterol through diet we need to avoid three things,
            trans fats, saturated fats, and cholesterol. trans fats are mostly in
            junk food and animal products
            The top food sources of cholesterol
            raising saturated fat. That quarter pounder doesn’t come in until 8.
            It’s cheese, ice cream, chicken, then pastries, then pork, reduced fat
            milk, and then our burger.
            Where is cholesterol found in the
            American diet? #1’s not beef. It’s eggs and chicken, and then beef,
            cheese, pork and fish before getting to cakes, cookies, doughnuts, and
            ice cream.
            How much should reduce our consumption of these foods?
            What are the tolerable upper intake levels for trans fat, saturated fat,
            and cholesterol? “The Institute of Medicine did not set upper limits
            for trans fat, saturated fat, and cholesterol because any intake level
            above zero increased bad cholesterol.”
            Here’s trans fat. There’s no
            level that’s safe. It’s like a straight line. The lower the better.
            “any intake level of trans fat above zero increased LDL cholesterol
            concentration, the number 1 risk factor for our number one killer. heart
            disease. And same with saturated fat— “ any intake level above zero”
            and similar findings for cholesterol. So intakes of meat, eggs, dairy,
            and junk food should be as low as possible because there is no tolerable
            intake .

          • Michael Grains

            Studies dating back nearly a century noted a striking finding. If you
            take young, healthy people and split them up into two groups, half on a
            fat-rich diet, and half on a carb rich diet, within just two days, this
            is what happens. The glucose intolerance skyrockets in the fat group.
            In response to the same sugar water challenge, the group that had been
            shoveling in fat ended up with twice the blood sugar. As the amount of
            fat in the diet goes up, so does one’s blood sugar spikes. It would take
            scientists nearly seven decades to unravel this mystery, but it would
            end up holding the key to our current understanding of the cause of type
            2 diabetes

            Here’s a group of athletes carb loading before a race.
            They’re trying to build up the fuel supply within their muscles. We
            break down the starch into glucose in our digestive tract, it circulates
            as blood glucose—blood sugar—and is taken up by our muscles to be
            stored and burnt for energy.

            Blood sugar, though, is like a
            vampire. It needs an invitation to come into our cells. And, that
            invitation is insulin. Here’s a muscle cell. Here’s some blood sugar
            outside waiting patiently to come in. Insulin is the key that unlocks
            the door to let the glucose in the blood enter the muscle cell. When
            insulin attaches to the insulin receptor, it activates an enzyme, which
            activates another enzyme, which activates two more enzymes which
            activates glucose transport, where it acts as a gateway for glucose to
            enter the cell. So insulin is the key that unlocks the door into our
            muscle cells.

            What if there was no insulin though? Blood sugar
            would be stuck out in the bloodstream banging on the door to our muscles
            and not able to get inside, and so with nowhere to go sugar levels
            would rise and rise. That’s what happens in type 1 diabetes, the cells
            in the pancreas that make insulin get destroyed and without insulin,
            sugar in the blood can’t get out of the blood into the muscles, and
            blood sugar rises. But there’s a second way we could end up with high
            blood sugar. What if there’s enough insulin, but the insulin doesn’t
            work. The key is there but something’s gummed up the lock. This is
            called insulin resistance. Our muscle cells become resistant to the
            effect of insulin. What’s gumming up the door locks on our muscle cells,
            preventing insulin from letting glucose in? Fat. Intramyocellular
            lipid, fat inside our muscle cells.

            But fat in the bloodstream can
            build up inside the muscle cell, create toxic fatty breakdown products,
            and free radicals that can block the insulin signaling process. So no
            matter how much insulin we have in our blood, it’s not able to open the
            glucose gates and blood sugar levels build up in the blood.

            This
            mechanism by which fat induces insulin resistance wasn’t known until
            fancy MRI techniques were developed to see what was happening inside
            people’s muscles as fat was infused into their bloodstream. That’s how
            they found that elevation of fat levels in the blood causes insulin
            resistance by inhibition of glucose transport into the muscles.

            And
            this can happen within three hours. One hit of of fat can start causing
            insulin resistance, inhibiting glucose uptake after just 160 minutes.

            Same
            thing happens to teens. You infuse fat into their bloodstream. It
            builds up in their muscles and decreases their insulin sensitivity,
            showing that increased fat in the blood is an important contributor of
            insulin resistance.

            And then you can do the opposite experiment.
            Lower the level of fat in people’s blood and the insulin resistance
            comes right down. Clear the fat out of the blood, and you clear the
            sugar out of the blood. So that explains this finding. On the high fat,
            ketogenic diet, insulin doesn’t work as well. Our bodies are insulin
            resistant. But as the amount of fat in our diet gets lower and lower,
            insulin works better and better, a clear demonstration that the sugar
            tolerance of even healthy individuals can be impaired by administering a
            low-carb high-fat diet. But we can decrease insulin resistance by
            decreasing fat intake.

          • Michael Gaines

            Absolutely false in my own case though. 11 weeks now eating high fat +nutrient green plant rich & less than 30g per day carbohydrate diet has my severe diabetes reversed. I’ve gone from 5 to 6 shots a day to 0 shots per day since day 3 of my journey… in fact 1000’s just like me have discovered the precise opposite of what you state here…

            Experience mattera and always trumps what one or two doctors put on paper….

          • Michael Grains

            No, you are still diabetic, you will never be cured eating a high fat diet. You are covering up your diabetes by keep sugars low while at the same time heart disease and cancer will be taking a foothold in your body weather you chose to accept it or not. Your personal stories are an experiment of one(1) n=1. You are so mislead and mis-informed that you believe what you are doing is healthy. In the end you will have to reconcile with yourself what an unwise choice it was to eat a high fat diet. That time will come.

            The level of LDL cholesterol our blood—our “bad” cholesterol—may be the
            single most important indicator of heart disease risk, and is the
            primary target of both drug and diet therapy. Your doctor will likely
            tell you that anything over 130 is high; anything under 130 is optimal
            or near optimal. But that’s what most people hospitalized for heart
            attack had circulating in their blood stream.
            Notes one of the
            investigators on this study, “Almost 75 percent of heart attack patients
            fell within recommended targets for LDL cholesterol, demonstrating that
            the current guidelines may not be low enough to cut heart attack risk.
            Close to half had “optimal” levels, though I’m not sure our grieving
            spouses and orphaned children will take much comfort in that fact.

            The leading agribusiness publication had a very different take on this
            study: “For years, we’ve been brainwashed to think that red meat and its
            associated fat content are killing us. Researchers, however, have found
            that the vast majority of patients — 75%, in fact — hospitalized for a
            heart attack did not have cholesterol levels that would signal a high
            risk for a cardiovascular event.”
            He’s saying see, cut out meat, and
            bring your cholesterol into the quote unquote optimal range and still
            die of a heart attack. So, he concludes, “fire up the grill, and eat up.
            The next time someone tells you that you just served a heart attack on a
            plate, you’ll be able to give them
            a science-based reason why they’re dead wrong,” when in fact you’ll more likely just end up dead.

          • Michael Grains

            The association between fat and insulin resistance is now widely
            accepted, so-called ectopic fat accumulation, the accumulation of fat in
            places it’s not supposed to be within our muscle cells. But not all
            fats affect the muscles the same The type of fat, saturated or
            unsaturated, is critical. Saturated fats like palmitate, found mostly in
            meat, dairy and eggs, cause insulin resistance, but oleate, found
            mostly in nuts, olives, and avocados may actually improve insulin
            sensitivity. What makes saturated fat bad? Saturated fat causes more of
            those toxic breakdown products and mitochondrial dysfunction and
            increase oxidative stress free radicals and inflammation, establishing a
            vicious cycle of events in which saturated fat induced free radicals
            causes dysfunction in the little powerplants within our muscle cells,
            which causes an increase in free production and impairment of insulin
            signaling.

            Fat cells filled with saturated fat activate an
            inflammatory response to a far greater extent. This increased
            inflammation, along with eating more saturated fat, has been
            demonstrated to raise insulin resistance through free radical and
            ceramide production. Saturated fat also has been shown to have a direct
            effect on skeletal muscle insulin resistance. Accumulation of saturated
            far increases the amount of diacyl- glycerol in the muscles, which has
            been demonstrated to have a potent effect on muscle insulin resistance.
            It doesn’t matter if the fat in our blood comes from our fat, or their
            fat.

            You can take muscle biopsies from people and correlate the saturated fat buildup in their muscles with insulin resistance.

            While
            monounsaturated fats are more likely to be detoxified or safely stored
            away, saturated fats create those toxic breakdown products like ceramide
            that causes lipotoxicity. Lipo meaning fat, as in liposuction, and
            toxicity. This fat toxicity in our muscles is a well-known concept in
            the explanation of trigger for insulin resistance.

            I’ve talked
            about the role saturated and trans fats contribute to the progression of
            other diseases, like autoimmune diseases, cancer and heart disease, but
            they can also cause insulin resistance, the underlying cause of
            prediabetes and type 2 diabetes. In the human diet, saturated fats are
            derived from animal sources while trans fats originate in meat and milk,
            in addition to partially hydrogenated and refined vegetable oils.

            That’s
            why experimentally shifting people from animal fats to plant fats can
            improve insulin sensitivity. Insulin sensitivity was impaired on the
            diet with added butterfat but not on the diet with added olive fat.

            We
            know prolonged exposure of our muscles to high levels of fat leads to
            severe insulin resistance, with saturated fats demonstrated to be the
            worst, but they don’t just lead to inhibition of insulin signaling, the
            activation of inflammatory pathways, and the increase in free radicals,
            they cause an alteration in gene expression, leading to a suppression of
            key mitochondrial enzymes like carnitine palmitoyltransferase, which
            finally solves the mystery of why those eating vegetarian have a 60%
            higher expression of that fat burning enzyme. They’re eating less
            saturated fat.

            So do those eating plant-based diets have less fat
            clogging their muscles and less insulin resistance too? There hasn’t
            been any data available regarding the insulin sensitivity or inside
            muscle cell fat of those eating vegan or vegetarian, until now.

            Researchers
            at the Imperial College of London compared the insulin resistance and
            muscle fat of vegans versus omnivores. Now those eating plant-based
            diets have the unfair advantage of being so much slimmer, so they found
            omnivores who were as skinny as vegans to see if plant-based diets had a
            direct benefit, as opposed to indirectly pulling fat out of the muscles
            by helping people lose weight in general.

            They found
            significantly less fat trapped in the muscle cells of vegans compared to
            omnivores at the same body weight, better insulin sensitivity, better
            blood sugar levels, better insulin levels and, excitingly, significantly
            improved beta-cell function, the cells in the pancreas that make the
            insulin. They conclude that eating vegan is not only expected to be
            cardioprotective, helping prevent our #1 killer, heart disease, but that
            veganism is beta-cell protective as well, helping also to prevent our
            seventh leading cause of death, diabetes.

          • Michael Gaines

            1. Yet even NIH says clincal data proves high fat low carbohydrate diets benefit diabetics and insulin resistance without increased risk of cardiovascular disease.
            2. Yet most T2D reverse their diabetes with fasting, sugar fasting diets by strictly controlling consumed carbohydrates while supplementing with increased proteins and saturated fats.
            3. Since low fat diets were federally approved in the 1970’s their is a direct corelated increased level of both diabetes and obesity that is irrefutable. Meaning low fat high sugar consumption is the true culprit.
            4.A 2015 OSU study proves it is indeed a fat clogging receptors of cells and creating inflamation. However, it a fatty acid created in the liver in response to storing body fat due to high carbohydrate and sugar only. The liver doesn’t produce this required fatty acid when injecting fats or proteins. It’s only created when excess sugar energies are consumed.

          • Michael Grains

            That NIH study has been debunked. It is the same junk science used to trick the public such as yourself into believing that low carbohydrate diets are safe when in fact they cause more harm that good.

            fat toxicity inside of our muscles is a major factor in the cause of
            insulin resistance and Type 2 diabetes, as it interferes with the
            action of insulin. I’ve explored how fat makes our muscles insulin
            resistant, how that fat can come from the fat we eat or the fat we wear,
            and how not all fats are not the same. It’s the type of fat found
            predominantly in animal fats, relative to plant fats, that appears to be
            especially deleterious with respect to fat-induced insulin
            insensitivity. But this insulin resistance in our muscles starts years
            before diabetes is diagnosed.

            This is a graph of fasting blood
            sugars in the 13 years prior to the onset of diabetes. Insulin
            resistance starts over a decade before diabetes is actually diagnosed,
            as blood sugar levels slowly start creeping up. And then all the sudden
            the pancreas conks out, and blood sugars skyrocket. What could underlie
            this relatively rapid failure of insulin secretion?

            At first, the
            pancreas pumps out more and more insulin trying to overcome fat-induced
            insulin resistance in the muscles, and high insulin levels can lead to
            the accumulation of fat in liver, called fatty liver disease. Before
            diagnosis of Type 2 diabetes, there is a long silent scream from the
            liver. As fat builds up in our liver, it becomes resistant to insulin
            too.

            Normally, the liver is constantly producing blood sugar to
            keep our brain alive between meals. As soon as we eat breakfast, though,
            the insulin released to deal with the meal normally turns off liver
            glucose production, which makes sense since we don’t need it anymore.
            But filled with fat, the liver becomes insulin resistant like our
            muscles do and doesn’t respond to the breakfast signal, and so keeps
            pumping out blood sugar all day long on top of whatever we eat. So the
            pancreas pumps out even more insulin to deal with the high sugars and
            our liver gets fatter and fatter. That’s one of the twin vicious cycles
            of diabetes. Fatty muscles, in the context of too many calories, leads
            to a fatty liver, which leads to an even fattier liver. This is all
            still before we have diabetes, but then the next vicious cycle starts.

            Fatty
            liver can be deadly. So the liver starts trying to offload the fat by
            dumping it back in the bloodstream in the form of something called VLDL
            and that starts building up in the cells in the pancreas that produce
            the insulin in the first place. So now we know how diabetes develops.
            Fatty muscles, lead to a fatty liver, which leads to a fatty pancreas.
            It is now clear that Type 2 diabetes is a condition of excess fat inside
            our organs.

            The only thing that was keeping us from diabetes,
            from unchecked skyrocketing blood sugars, is that the pancreas was
            working overtime pumping out extra insulin to overcome insulin
            resistance. But as the so-called islet, or Beta cells in the pancreas,
            are killed off by the fat buildup, insulin production starts to fail,
            and we’re left with the worst of both worlds, insulin resistance
            combined with a failing pancreas. Unable to then overcome the
            resistance, blood sugar levels go up and up and we have Type 2 diabetes.

            This
            has implications for cancer as well. Obesity leads to insulin
            resistance, and our blood sugars start to go up, so our pancreas starts
            pumping out more insulin to try to force more sugar into our muscles,
            and eventually the fat spills over into the pancreas as well, killing
            off the insulin-producing cells, and we’ve got diabetes, in which case
            we may have to start injecting insulin at high levels to overcome the
            insulin-resistance, and these high insulin levels promote cancer. That’s
            one of the reasons we think obese women get more breast cancer. It all
            traces back to fat getting into our muscle cells, causing insulin
            resistance. Fat from our stomach or fat going into our stomach.

          • Michael Gaines

            I used to say no it’s not fat. Then I ran into an article that said well there is indeed a fat that aggravates CVD and diabetes. The science is telling us it’s a fat only created by the liver as it works to store excess carbohydrates and sugars into body fat. That was like a wow moment for me. That same fatty acid is not manufactured in the liver when dietary fats or moderate proteins are consumed. At least that was the jist of the article and clinical study…

          • AllVegan

            I guess it would make sense if not for the fact that People on a high carb low fat diet are at extremely low risk for Diabetes as well as other degenerative diseases. If that “study” was valid wouldn’t you think that the opposite would be true? Perhaps you can keep your blood sugar to almost normal levels on this high fat diet but what are you doing to your health? You are getting no nutrition from this fat, it is just empty calories. The fat in your cells is still blocking the absorption of blood sugar. Your body is starving, you are suffering from malnutrition and the only reason you could possibly think that you feel good is because you probably are in ketosis. It would be hard for me to imagine a more unhealthy diet. Look at this video or at least attempt to read the studies sited. http://nutritionfacts.org/video/What-Causes-Insulin-Resistance/ The Video covers more than 70 years of research. Doesn’t your health deserve a couple of minutes looking at real science. You obviously have spent a lot of time reading crackpot opinion on quack websites. Why not look at some actual science.

          • Michael Gaines

            I’ve seen the video and it’s not very convincing to me at all from several perspectives.

            1. Clinical studies clearly show LCHF diets are safe and effective in treating metabolic syndomes. Oppsosing studies even in NIH site makes this even quite clear along with 100′ s of other studies.

            2 most overweight and obese people aren’t diabetic an dB this is indicative their is inherited traits to the disease at a genetic level. There are a high number of thin people that also suffer from T2D.

            3. Carbohydrates and sugars are toxic to the truly metabolic person.

            4. I tried wfpb diet and it was a miserable failure with me if I kept carbohydrates or sugars in my diet. Only nutrient rich dark green leafy veggies seemed to not impact my sugars greatly but this was an unsustainable diet.

            5..you’re making an assumption I’m anti veggie. I’m not in fact I incorporate moderate high nutrient veggies in my daily diet. I just keep high fat, moderate protein and low carbohydrate at all times.

            11 weeks feeling great sugars normailed on 3 days and I’ve eliminated over 375 insulin shots to my belly. There is no science that clearly implicates dietary fat to this disease.

          • AllVegan

            “There is no science that clearly implicates dietary fat to this disease” Really Michael? The video I recommended clearly showed the mechanism by which fat causes insulin resistance. But you prefer some fairy tale explanation about allergies to carbohydrate. Have a look at this: https://youtu.be/OGGQxJLuVjg perhaps you are interested in what that fat is doing to your body. Awe hell you don’t care do you? Your only concern is your blood sugar level not your health right? I am wasting my time here.

          • Michael Gaines

            It’s one video with cherry picked studies with operative uses of worse such as “May, Could, Might, Maybe, possibly, etc.”

            Coorelation is often confused with causation. The clinical studies and control subjects are critical to drawing out accurate conclusions. None of the subject indicated in any of these tests include highly restricted carbohydrate subjects in comparison to low fat high carbohydrate subjects. It’s always based on those eating more fat in the presence of carbohydrates and or sugars. This will always skew testing results.

            I have hundreds of studies that clearly refute the claims and conclusions of the data you present by equally or better qualified clinical studies. I suppose you are willing to reject opposing science due to you strong vegitarian beliefs. I however am a true omnivore that believes in all foods provided they do no harm to the body.

            There is a fat created in the liver used in the storing of fat on the body though that is clearly bad for our bodies. But it’s not a consumed dietary fat. It’s a fat created when we eat sugar or excess carbohydrate by our own bodies. It’s alwsys associated with increased inflammatory markers in our blood. It’s clear this created fat by the liver is a CVD associated by product when we eat excess energy in the form of sugars not fat.

            How do you honestly reconcile studies in your mind that clearly show LCHF diets impove lipids, improve blood dugar, improve inflammation, improve weight loss, etc. There are substantial studies that clearly show dietary fats are beneficial in restricted carbohydrate eating. How is it you’re so willing to look at a pro vegitarian study & accept that while ignoring opposing studies that clearly demonstrate Fat too is an effective treatment for metabolic syndromes and all the clinical studies back this up.

            I’d prefer to see a 30 day study of a tightly controlled group of ketogenic eaters with very low carbohydrates again an omnivore control group and a vegitarian control group & then test those beta cells, lipids, weightloss etc. The control group should include equal parts of men & women and all with relatively equal BMI’s in the overweight range. Then let’s see how valid this idea is that saturated fat kills beta cells in the pancreas At such discernable levels via dietary consumption. If it’s real we should find that ketogenic dieter are rapidly destroying beta cells, while omnivores moderately impair beta cells & that vegitarian eaters have little to no impact to beta cells. Now that would be an interesting study….

            The study regarding lipid toxicity also has a clear issue■■■”Overall, these findings support the hypothesis that lipotoxicity only occurs in the context of chronic hyperglycemia, consistent with the observation that most individuals with increased circulating lipid levels have normal β-cell function.”■■■

            It’s already clear hyperinsulin & hyperglucose toxicity kills beta cells. It’s a fact high sugar and high insulin absolutely destroys beta cells that make the insulin to begin with…Fats may too, but it’s not easy to add dietary saturated fat to your blood unless your liver is a mess. 98% of the fat in our blood is created and tightly controlled by our livers. Only 2% of dietary fat is believed to ever make it into our blood stream. How do you or sciency reconcile this?

            I’ve also got a ton of studies showing strong genetic predisposition links to causing diabetes. It’s seems if you have a genetic markers or markers you can trigger the disease and those triggers are much more higher coorelate to diets rich in carbohydrates & sugars.

            Yes there are a handful of studies showing a potential fat coorelation but today the science is literally flipping over in support of higher fats to combat metabolic syndrome.

            The cause is likely much more complex than any of us have considered as it’s likely a combination of genetics, environment, & diet

          • Michael Grains

            ———- WARNING ———–
            ———– KETOGENIC DIETS HARM LONG TERM HEALTH NEW RESEARCH SHOWS ———

            Introduction
            —————

            Long-term depletion of carbs can potentially lead to serious
            health issues down the road. “Your liver is exposed to extra stress as
            it is forced to assist with manufacturing glucose from fats and
            proteins,” he explains. “Potentially toxic amounts of ammonia are
            produced as proteins are converted into glucose, your body has a more
            difficult time producing mucus and the immune system
            becomes impaired as risk of pathogenic infection increases, and your
            body loses the ability to produce compounds called glycoproteins, which
            are vital to cellular functions.”People who follow low-carb diets inadvertently
            end up increasing their protein intake. According to WebMD, this can be
            especially problematic if you have existing kidney problems, because consuming too
            much protein “puts added strain on your kidneys.”

            Muscle Breakdown
            ——————
            “Research consistently shows that people
            who exercise regularly need to eat enough carbs or their testosterone
            will fall while their cortisol levels rise,” St. Pierre said. “This is a
            sure-fire recipe for losing muscle and gaining fat.” Essentially,
            as St. Pierre explains, when you meet your carbohydrate needs, you’ll
            adequately replenish your muscle glycogen stores and create an “anabolic
            (building-up) hormonal environment.” In other words, you set yourself
            up to increase your strength and muscle mass.
            “Conversely, when you don’t eat enough carbohydrates, muscle glycogen
            is depleted and a catabolic (breaking-down) hormonal environment is
            created, which means more protein breakdown and less protein synthesis,”
            he explains. “This means slower muscle growth — or even muscle loss.

            Hypothyroidism
            —————-
            “The main reason carbs affect thyroid
            function so directly is because insulin is needed for the conversion of
            the inactive T4 hormone into the active T3 hormone, and insulin is
            generally quite low on very low carbohydrate diets,” Kresser explains.
            “So if you’ve suddenly started developing hypothyroid symptoms on
            your low-carb diet, it’s a pretty good sign that you’d be better off
            upping the carbs.” This may also be cause to get your thyroid tested ,
            he added

            Adrenal Fatigue
            —————-
            This condition is also known as “HPA axis
            dysregulation,” according to Kresser. “The main hormone that gets
            dysregulated in adrenal fatigue is cortisol, and cortisol has been shown
            to increase on a low-carb diet,” he says. “This means that a low-carb diet is a potential adrenal stressor in susceptible individuals. Combine that with a stressful job, inadequate sleep, and over-exercise,
            and you’ve got yourself a recipe for adrenal burnout.” For this reason,
            Kresser suggests making sure to consume an adequate amount of carbs

            Gut Health Risk
            ———————————–
            “Carbohydrates include whole grains,
            fruits and vegetables. These are a major source of soluble and insoluble
            fiber in the diet,” explains Dr. Michael S. Fenster, M.D., a board
            certified interventional cardiologist.

            “Adequate consumption of fiber is critical in maintaining a healthy gut microbiome.
            The gut microbiome consists of all the different types of
            microorganisms, estimated to be about 100 trillion bacteria alone —
            outnumbering the 10 trillion human cells that make up your body by about
            10 to 1 — that coexists within our gastrointestinal tract.
            Increasingly, the gut microbiome is being recognized as a symbiotic
            organism that is in constant communication with all our other various
            organ systems, including the immune system. Disruption of the gut microbiome
            can induce an ongoing inflammatory process; one that seems to be at the
            root of so many of the disabilities and diseases that confront us
            today.” Additionally, Fenster mentions that these types of foods
            are also important for obtaining essential vitamins, minerals and
            phytonutrients needed for maintaining good overall health. “Severe
            restriction of this food group from the diet without another source of
            adequate replacement can open the door to any number of disabilities and
            diseases,”

            Decrease in Energy Levels
            ———————————–
            “Llow-carbohydrate weight loss dieting
            has been associated with weakness, fatigue, dizziness, headaches,
            constipation, diarrhea and nausea,” Fenster says. “Many people engaging
            such programs also report a significant decrease in their overall energy
            levels. Some, as a result of the ketotic process mentioned earlier may
            also experience mental fatigue (the so-called “ketotic fog”) and develop
            halitosis. In one recent study, a high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet
            was associated with an increased mortality risk in those with known cardiovascular disease.”

          • Michael Gaines

            So a lot of comments yet no clinical studies to substantiate hardly any of it. Everything stated here can apply to anyone and this includes many vegetarians thst equally are low in energy etc.

            Also most of these comments are alwas filled with qualifier or operative language such “msy, might, possibly, maybe, etc.” It’s standard scare tactics…

            Show me the studies done on ketogenic eaters that clearly prove this. The Inuit always ate high fat and the never had access to a single green veggie or carrot. Yet their energies were high and disease very low….

            Clinical studies of high fat , moderate protein & low carbohydrate eaters are necessary to validate any and all.of these claims…

          • Michael Grains

            Here’s an illustrative case report of what can happen when you go on
            such a diet, reported recently in the Journal of the American Dietetic
            Association: “Development of symptomatic cardiovascular disease after
            self-reported adherence to the Atkins diet”.

            Started out healthy,
            51-year-old man; pretty good cholesterol, no chest pain, and a working
            penis. He was gaining a few pounds, though, so he decided to go on a
            low-carb diet. One month in, his cholesterol shot through the roof, but
            hey, he lost five pounds, so, he kept it up. And after two years more on
            the diet, he lost three pounds, but he also lost the ability to have an
            erection. And he started having chest pains. But hey, that’s what
            drugs are for, so he started taking Viagra, one of the wonders of modern
            medicine, which also came in handy when he landed in the emergency room
            with crushing chest pain.

            He got a cardiac catheterization which
            found a 99% blockage of one of his coronary arteries supplying blood to
            his heart. Luckily, they found it in time. He got a drug-eluding stent
            placed.

            He was eventually discharged from the hospital and finally
            decided, maybe this Atkins thing isn’t such a great idea, so he
            switched to a low-fat diet with greens, whole grains, beans, vegetables,
            nuts, and even (gasp!) the inclusion of vegetarian entrees. Two months
            on the new diet, his weight was down, his cholesterol was down, and he
            stopped taking the Viagra.

            Now, a skeptic might suggest that he
            had clogged arteries before he even started the low-carb diet. But no,
            he actually got a coronary artery scan right before starting on Atkins
            and there was no measurable plaque in his coronary arteries. And then
            just 29 months later, after the initiation of the low-card diet, 99%
            blockage. Now they were able to open that surgically with a stent, but
            it took his changing to a more healthy diet to open up blood flow to
            other parts of his body.

          • Michael Gaines

            Oh thanks for sharing that… I’ll put it in my file.

            Here’s a few that refute it…http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/

          • Michael Gaines

            So for the first claim regarding depletion of Carbohydrates—
            > Where is the clinical proof the liver is exposed to extra stress in the absence of Carbohydrates?
            > Where is it clinical determined that a liver is taxed when it’s making glucose from fats or proteins?
            > Why don’t you recognize the liver actually is not making that much glucose because it’s actually aiding the creation of ketones not Glucose.
            >Why do you not refer to the fact that if the liver isn’t being taxed by processing 100’s upon 100’s of carbohydrates a day that it’s burdens isn’t taxed additionally by fats and proteins nearly as much as it was taxed processing carbohydrates and forcing the liver to work extra hard to store excess sugars as fat on the body?
            > What is “Potentially Toxic Amounts really mean? and who measured these Ammonia and other by products of metabolism in Ketogenic eaters? You’re referring to tests on people it seems that are eating fat along with a regular carbohydrate diet here— this is somewhat meaningless in this context.

            No research actually shows that cortisol goes up with stress. Extreme regular exercise is stressful and increase cortisol and this has been repeatedly shown in clinical testing. Testosterone clinical data please— Also who are the subjects and what are they eating. Ultramarathon runners (100 mile runs) eating ketogenic diets have normal to high testosterone levels… Unfortunately, you don’t really understand body chemistry with a claim that sugar builds your hormones. FAT is the essential macronutrient required for all our hormones. Dietary sugars and carbohydrates are 0% essential to hormone maintenance and health.

            This myth regarding low insulin levels is a rarity in people with T2D. More common in T1D since they never secrete insulin and must use injectable insulins to put it into their bodies. Insulin is indeed an essential hormone and without it we would die quickly. But insulin is a double edge sword to much of it consistently pushed into our blood causes diabetes. T2D rarely have an issue where they secrete to little insulin– their problem is they secrete to much on very little amounts of carbohydrates in their systems.

            There are plenty of studies on the adrenals that clearly show that a low carbohydrate diet actually reduces adrenal fatigue and syndromes. Again you state insure you consume an adequate amount of carbohydrate???? Who? Normal people or metabolically challenged people.? It makes a difference because diabetics have an intolerance to sugars and carbohydrates. This sort of advice is similar to telling someone with peanut allergies to eat more peanuts. It’s nonsensical…

            With respect to Gut health— you can do low carbohydrate eating while maintaining fiber in the diet. The diet is actually rich with fiber if you eat from the low carbohydrate green leafy highly nutritious vegetables. Also one can supplement fiber– and vitamins and minerals at their choosing… To include probiotics.

            The decrease in energy levels has been repeatedly debunked. Ultramarathon 100 mile runners on their own body fat prove this clearly. They in fact have better energy in endurance event regularly as compared to carbohydrate based endurance athletes. This is why many athletes are switching to ketogenic diets for their endurance sports. Now a 100 mile dash is another story, because here a runner is burning and using fuel differently. Creatine is used in flight or die scenarios such as superman jumping in a single bound to a top of a tree to avoid the drooling lion. Sugar is effective in short bursts of energy types of sports etc.. My first few weeks I did have low energy because my body had not adapted to burning fat effectively, it’s not an immediate process and it can take 2 to 4 weeks to totally adapt, When I eat, I don’t ever feel tired or groggy either like you do with a rich carbohydrate meal. I used to not be able to go anywhere with family because they knew as soon as I ate I’d be snoring somewhere— and that sir was CARBOHYDRATES doing that to me— not FAT nor Protein… My mind is 10 times clearer on FAT than it has ever been on Sugars…. The brain is 90% fat— what? You think it want’s sugar which often puts the brain to sleep as opposed to FATS and ketones— well you’re wrong and right. The brain will demand a certain amount of glucose be built for it no matter what but it’s only in small amounts as the brain actually loves these things called Ketones for fuel even more than the glucose…

            The greatest precursors to CVD are caused from foods that create arterial inflammation. FATS nor Proteins other than their trace carbohydrate cause inflammation. The culprit on both sides of the food spectrum are known to be highly associated with sugars and carbohydrates that easily and readily convert to sugars. Studies prove this over and over no matter what side of the fence to eat on. Also high level of insulin with high sugars are highly associated with inflammatory markers. Inflammation here is what really leads to CVD– not cholesterol which 98% is manufactured within the liver nor the 2% that is made up of your dietary fats.

            These are equally the facts as known from hundred upon hundred of dietary clinical studies in government sites such as NIH and Duke, Harvard, and Purdue dietary studies…

          • Michael Grains

            Much of the low carb and paleo reasoning revolve around insulin. To
            quote one random blogger, “carbohydrates increase insulin, the root of all evil
            when it comes to dieting and health.” So because carbs increase insulin
            we should stick mostly to meat, which is fat and protein—no carbs, so
            no increase in insulin, right? Wrong. We’ve known for half a century
            that if you give someone just a steak, no carbs, no sugar, no starch,
            and their insulin goes up. Carbs make your insulin go up, but so does
            protein.

            In 1997 an insulin index of foods was published, ranking
            38 foods on which stimulates higher insulin levels. What do you think
            causes a larger insulin spike, a large apple and all its sugar, a cup of
            oatmeal packed with carbs, a cup and a half of white flour pasta, a big
            bunless burger—no carbs at all, or half of a salmon fillet. The answer
            is the meat.

            They only looked at beef and fish, but subsequent
            data showed that that there’s no significant difference between the
            insulin spike from beef, versus chicken or pork—they’re all just as
            high. Thus, protein- and fat-rich foods may induce substantial insulin
            secretion. In fact meat protein causes as much insulin release as pure
            sugar.

            So based on their own framework, if they really believed
            insulin in the root of all evil, then low carbers and paleo folks would
            be eating big bowls of spaghetti day in and day out before they’d ever
            touch meat.

            Yes, having hyperinsulinemia, too high levels of
            insulin in the blood, like type 2 diabetics have, is not a good thing,
            and may increase cancer by like 10%. But if low carb and paleo people
            stuck to their own theory, it it’s all about insulin, they would be out
            telling everyone to go vegetarian, as vegetarians have significantly
            lower insulin levels even at the same weight. It’s true for
            ovolactovegetarians. It’s true for lactovegetarians and vegans.
            Meateaters have up to 50% higher insulin levels.

            Put someone on a
            vegan diet- man, woman, young, old, skinny or fat, and you can
            significantly bring their insulin levels down within just 3 weeks. And
            then just by adding egg whites back to the diet, you can boost insulin
            production 60% within 4 days.

            What if you take people and add
            carbohydrates, double their carbohydrate intake, you can bring their
            insulin levels down. Why? Because they weren’t feeding people jellybeans
            and sugar cookies, they were feeding people whole plant foods, lots of
            whole grains, beans, fruits, and vegetables.

            What if you put
            someone on a very-low carb diet, like an Atkins diet? Low carb advocates
            assumed that it would lower insulin levels. Dr. Westman is the new
            Dr. Atkins after the old Dr. Atkins died overweight with, according to
            the Medical Examiner, a history of heart attack, congestive heart
            failure and hypertension. But Dr. Westman was wrong. No significant drop
            in insulin levels on very low carb diets. What they got is a
            significant rise in their LDL cholesterol levels, the #1 risk factor for
            our #1 killer, heart disease.

            Atkins is an easy target though. No
            matter how many new, new, extra new Atkins diets that come out, it’s
            still old news. What about paleo? The paleo movement gets a lot of
            things right. They tell people to ditch dairy and doughnuts, eat lots of
            fruits, nuts and vegetables, and cut out a lot of processed junk. But
            this new study’s pretty scary. Took a bunch young healthy folks put them
            on a Paleolithic diet along with a Crossfit-based, high-intensity
            circuit training exercise program. Now if you lose enough weight
            exercising you can temporarily drop your cholesterol levels no matter
            what you eat. You can see that with stomach stapling surgery,
            tuberculosis, chemo, a cocaine habit—just losing weight by any means can
            lower cholesterol, which makes these results all the more troubling.
            Ten weeks of hard core workouts and weight loss, and LDL cholesterol
            still went up. And it was even worse for those who started out the
            healthiest. Those starting out with excellent LDLs, under 70 had a 20%
            elevation in LDL, and their HDL dropped. Exercise is supposed to boost
            your good cholesterol, not lower it. The Paleo diet’s deleterious
            impact on blood fats was not only significant, but substantial enough to
            counteract the improvements commonly seen with improved fitness and
            body composition. Exercise is supposed to make things better. Put people
            instead on a plant-based diet and a modest exercise program—mostly just
            walking-based, and within 3 weeks can drop their bad cholesterol 20%,
            and their insulin levels 30%, despite a 75-80% carbohydrate diet whereas
            the paleo diets appeared to negate the positive effects of exercise.

          • Michael Grains

            Fatty streaks, the first stage of atherosclerosis, were found in the
            arteries of 100% of kids by age 10. What’s accounting for this buildup
            of plaque even in childhood? In the 80s we got our first clue in the
            famous Bogalusa heart study. This looked at autopsies of those who died
            between the ages of 3 to 26 year-olds, and the #1 risk factor was
            cholesterol intake.

            You could see the stepwise increase in the
            proportion of their arteries covered in fatty streaks as the level of
            bad cholesterol in the blood increased. As powerful as this was, this
            was only looking at 30 kids. So they decided to study 3000: three
            thousand accidental death victims, ages 15 through 34.

            After
            thousands of autopsies, there were able to produce a scoring system that
            could predict the presence of advanced atherosclerotic lesions in the
            coronary arteries of young people. The higher your score, the higher the
            likelihood you have these lesions growing in the arteries that pump
            blood and oxygen to your heart. So if you’re in your teens, twenties,
            early thirties and you smoke, your risk goes up by one point. If you
            have high blood pressure at such a young age, that’s 4 points. If you’re
            an obese male, that’s 6 points, but high cholesterol was the worst of
            all. If your non-HDL cholesterol (meaning your total cholesterol minus
            your good cholesterol) is above 220 or so, that was 8 times worse than smoking.

            Let’s
            say you’re a woman with relatively high cholesterol, but you don’t
            smoke, you’re not overweight, your blood pressure and blood sugars are
            OK. At your sweet 16 there’s just a 1 in 30 (3%) chance you already have
            an advanced atherosclerotic lesion in your heart, but if you don’t
            improve your diet, by your 30th birthday, it’s closer to a 1
            in 5 (20%) chance you have some serious heart disease, and if you have
            really high cholesterol it could be closer to 1 in 3 (33%).

            Bring
            your cholesterol down to even just that of a lacto-ovo vegetarian and
            your risk levels are way down, and if you exercise to boost you HDL you
            can extrapolate down to here, etc. So what this shows us is that even in
            15- to 19-year-olds, atherosclerosis has begun in a substantial number
            of individuals, and this observation suggests beginning primary
            prevention at least by the late teenage years to ameliorate every stage
            of atherosclerosis and to prevent or retard progression to more advanced
            lesions.

            If you start kids out on a low saturated fat diet, you
            may see a significant improvement in their arterial function by 11 years
            old. “Exposure to high serum cholesterol concentration even in
            childhood may accelerate the development of atherosclerosis.
            Consequently the long-term prevention of atherosclerosis might be most
            effective when initiated early in life,” as in weaning infants.

            Atherosclerosis,
            hardening of the arteries, begins in childhood. Remember, by age 10,
            nearly all kids have fatty streaks, the first stage of the disease.
            Then… the plaques start forming in our 20s, get worse in our 30s, and
            can start killing us off in early middle age. In our hearts it’s a heart
            attack, in our brains it’s a stroke, in our extremities it can mean
            gangrene, and in our aorta, an aneurism. If there is anyone watching
            this video that is older than 10 years of age, the choice likely isn’t
            whether or not to eat healthy to prevent heart disease, it’s whether or not you want to reverse the heart disease you already have.

            Ornish
            and Esselstyn proved you can reverse heart disease with a plant-based
            diet, but we don’t have to wait until our first heart attack to reverse
            the clogging of our arteries. We can start reversing our heart disease
            right now. We can start reversing heart disease in our kids, tonight.
            Heart disease is a choice.

          • Michael Gaines

            Well isn’t that just because less than 1% of all people are truly vegetarian? What percentage of people that are overweight or obese actually succeed on a vegetarian diet would seem to be a better question… What percentage of those people that strictly follow the veggie path stick to it truly, and sustain that lifestyle of eating forever? I just read a science article that said only 1% of dieter succeed– gosh– that’s enough to make everyone give up now isn’t it… Regardless of the diet one assumes less than 1% have a 5 year success record was the jist of the article… (That should be more relevant to doctors that anything).

            Honestly the only low fat high carbohydrate people that are at extremely low risk for diabetes are the ones that have never been overweight a day in their lives. Why? Because genetically some people are great sugar metabolizers… Most however are not….

            Actually again you make unfounded assumptions. First do you know what a carbohydrate is? Do you know what sugar is? Can you define anything carbohydrate create or build in the body? No you can’t… Carbohydrates are not essential to life, you would live just fine one ZERO CARBS per day. Now on the other hand of the macro ratios we have FAT & PROTEIN both are essential to our being healthy and alive. Go without protein for 4 months or so and you are one very sick puppy; Go without FATS for a week and you are dead. I’m wondering if you realize this?

            Tell me something— how is it a morbidly obese man loses 276lbs fasting for 382 day without any food managed to do that and remain healthy and only get healthier as he lost weight over that period of time. This is the longest known clinically observed fast on record…

            I can assure you my body is not starving. It starved far more on an omnivore and vegetarian diet because my metabolic insulin issues prevented me from the benefits some receive that don’t suffer from insulin resistance.

            The fat blocking insulin has been discovered to come from the liver as it works to put body fat onto the body from eating sugars and excess carbohydrate. Dietary fat is not the culprit. It’s a manufactured fatty acid only created when we eat excessive energy in the form of sugars. ITS SUGAR that causes this FAT. Dietary FAT has been proven to not create this fatty acid in any way.

            It’s an incredible eating style, regardless of anything you imagine. It has my severe diabetes well controlled. My skin tone has never been better, my arthritic pains gone, my energy levels higher than ever. I’m speaking from my personal experience and there are 1000’s of others finding the same benefits. You are speaking from your imagination as you state above you can’t imagine a more unhealthy diet. That’s because you don’t have any experience here. You shouldn’t be trying to diagnose me– you know nothing about me… Besides– I eat plenty of dark green leafy only vegetables.

            Do you have diabetes? Have tried any diets before? Are you overweight or have you ever been overweight? Do you have insulin resistance? I’m pretty sure your answer is no… and I never will because of what I eat. Now what’s ironic here— is you may be half right. It does seem some people are genetically predisposes to metabolic issues and that the triggers may indeed be food. But 99%of the time that trigger is high sugars and carbohydrates not FAT. Maybe you aren’t hitting those triggers because you run a consistent calories deficit, or maybe you don’t eat a high percent of your diet in rich carbohydrate foods, or maybe you do but you have excellent genetic carbohydrate tolerance. Not everyone does….

            I have looked at the video’s and it’s clear to me that there is an almost religious bias in them to come to a specific conclusion. This is similar to Ancel Keys from the 50’s with his very poor conclusion to blame FAT. Isn’t in odd that in the 1970’s after new low fat guidelines highly recommended a low fat diet that obesity ballooned in America?

            When you try to dismiss opposing science by labeling it crackpot advise– it doesn’t help your position at all. Since When was NIH a crackpot website and it clearly talks about the advantages of high fat diets for people with metabolic issues without any adverse health issues whatsoever.

            There’s data going back over 100+ years that clearly show FAT in the diet is not the culprit you and others are trying to say it is… I can show clinical study however, endlessly one after another that clearly shows sugars are bad for humans.

        • Michael Gaines

          Yes that sounds like success if it’s controlling and keeping your blood glucose in a normal range. I’ve never said a plant based diet couldn’t have success. In fact, if I ate green plants, no starches and no sugar it too eventually would lower blood sugar and I suspect insulin levels. I don’t know if you were shoot insulin 5 to 6 times each day either like I was…. Some people get told by their doctors that they are prediabetic and they can easily reverse their symptoms. Others not so lucky…

          Well, I had to eat rabbit food— because the starchy ones (which I love send my sugar levels through the roof). I can’t eat corn, potato, grain of any kind regardless if they are whole grain or not. I cup of oatmeal sends my sugar into the high 200’s easily for many hours without insulin injections.

          I know my body, I check my sugars 5 to 7 times a day minimum. I know precisely what I can eat and not eat to avoid spiking my sugars. Dark green leafy vegetables which I love are okay, I get a minimum uptick in reasonable portions of this food. FAT doesn’t spike anything at all. Too much protein I get a little uptick. anything over 30 grams of carbs per day I’m regularly flying in the 155 to 170 range without additional insulin to bring me down.

          I think everyone is different. Plant based less starch and sugar would likely work in the long run for me… However I found it hard to eat that way for an extended period of time… I have no problems continuing to enjoy green veggies along with copious amounts of Fat and moderate protein though and that does an excellent job of highly normalizing the symptoms of my diabetes without drugs.

          • Michael Grains

            The latest meta-analysis,
            pooling data from more than a dozen studies involving more than 300,000
            people, indicates that there is a dose dependent association between egg
            consumption and the risk of cardiovascular disease and diabetes, but
            that doesn’t mean every individual study showed evidence of harm. Even
            though the totality of evidence points to harm, the egg industry can
            cherry-pick out studies that show no apparent effects. If eggs are
            harmful, why don’t all the studies on heart disease and egg consumption
            show significant harm? It may have to do with Rose’s concept of a “sick
            population.” If an entire population is sick, then the range of “health”
            may not be sufficiently broad to establish a significant association.
            Let me explain. This is one of the most famous papers ever written in
            preventive medicine, should be required reading for all medical
            students.

            Imagine if everyone smoked 20 cigarettes a day. If everybody
            smoked, then clinical studies, case-control studies, and cohort studies
            would all lead us to conclude that lung cancer was a genetic disease;
            and in one sense that would be true. Some smokers get cancer; others
            smoke their whole lives and don’t, but if everybody smoked we’d never
            know smoking was a risk factor. Thankfully, in the case of cigarettes
            and lung cancer it so happened that the original study populations
            contained about equal numbers of smokers and non-smokers, and in such a
            situation, studies are able to identify the main risk factor. But take
            cholesterol. Here’s the cholesterol levels of the people without heart
            disease in the famous Framingham Heart Study. And here’s the cholesterol
            levels of those that did develop heart disease. It’s hardly any
            different because practically everybody’s cholesterol was too high, it’s
            like everyone was a smoker. The painful truth is that even someone at
            quote-unquote “low risk” for heart disease, is likely to die of heart
            disease. Everyone who eats the standard Western diet is, in fact, a
            high-risk individual when it comes to heart disease.

            In a sick
            population like ours where nearly everyone is eating lots of saturated
            fat and cholesterol, adding some more saturated fat and cholesterol in
            the form of eggs may just take us from one sorry state—probably dying
            from heart disease—to another sorry state—still probably dying from
            heart disease.

            So when the federal guidelines say we need to
            really restrict dietary cholesterol if we’re at high risk for heart
            disease, we need to realize that nearly all Americans that live past
            middle age are at high risk of dying from heart disease—it’s our #1
            cause of death. A 20-year old man might feel it would be safe to smoke
            and eat egg yolks, because his heart attack is 45 years or so in the
            future – but why would he want to accelerate the progression of his
            atherosclerotic plaque to bring it on sooner? Stopping egg yolks after
            the heart attack would be like quitting smoking after lung cancer is
            diagnosed.

            There may in fact be a plateau of risk for smoking too.
            Whether we smoke for 25 years, or 35 years, our risk for lung cancer
            may be the same, really high, but about the same. So the tobacco
            industry could truthfully tell someone who’s smoked for most of their
            lives, for the last 25 years, keep smoking, don’t worry, you can keep
            smoking and your risk of lung cancer won’t go up (conveniently just
            failing to mention that you’re already at high risk and if you quit
            completely your risk would drop dramatically). It’s like if you took a
            raging drunk and had them take a shot of whiskey. In someone who’s
            hammered, it might not make much difference, but to a teetotaler, a
            couple shots could have quite an effect. So it’s like the alcohol
            industry with a group of drunks saying see, couple shots, no big deal,
            but that doesn’t mean it’s not better to be sober.

    • Tamika

      I have this same problem with my mum. She’s 5 foot 4 and 110kg. She carries on eating pies and high fatty meats even after I have given her all the information on how bad the food is she’s eating. It’s hard to come to terms with knowing a loved one is slowly killing themselves due to poor diet and lifestyle choices. People like to stick with what they know because it’s where they are comfortable. I’ve had to accept that there isn’t anything more I can do. It had to be my mothers choice to make change.

    • Michael Gaines

      They need a diet that lowers blood sugar immediately and lowers insulin secretion. Ketogenic diets do that very well.

    • ELK

      so so true and very sad !

  • Veganrunner

    I have a patient who has slowly but surely been decreasing his animal protein. Rarely eating beef or pork and having small amounts of fish. He is surrounded by Paleo friends so this is big. He just recently started eating coconut oil with his coffee! Sounds disgusting to me. He was embarrassed to tell me but we had the conversation (again) when he was asking me about lotion for the skin and I suggested coconut oil. He confessed he had started eating it. Those Paleo believers can be convincing.

    • Jim Felder

      Folks who look to real science for guidance on what to eat are handicapped due the provisional nature of science. And so we have to speak in provisional terms with qualifications on all statements. Paleo literature is studded with absolutes like “at one point everybody on the planet ate this way” Loren Cordain The Paleo Diet, and other unqualified statements more appropriate with a faith-based approach to diet. As such they can just make definitive statements without having to worry about any uncertainty. People like your patient are worried that they are eating themselves into an early grave (a very valid concern too) are uncertain about how they should shift their diet. Naturally they are drawn to people who can make short unambiguous declarative statements like the Paleo evangelicals can and do. Plus the Paleo folks give them permission to eat all the bacon and steak they want with the absolute certainty that they are “eating the diet we were designed to eat” (Cordain again). And as for butter and other dairy as well as grains, well they will eat Paleo most of the time. After all moderation in all things right?

      • Brux

        >.Folks who look to real science for guidance on what to eat are handicapped due the provisional nature of science.

        Science is science, and is always going to be changing, sometimes in ways that make recent experience such a mockery. We humans are not that smart.

        Diets are really engineering … that is, the application of what we know, or think we know, in practice for a specified purpose. But in order to make sure no food producers gets completely screwed there is enough data out there that will tell anyone what they want to hear. No everyone can be right about what they think v.a.v diets and what to eat and what caused disease.

        Gotta figure most people are wrong, and that science may never tell us what the best diet is, and even if it does, we in our limited way to seeing things will just see it in a linear way and think if some vitamin is good for us, then more and more of it should be better.

        • Jim Felder

          The difference is that researchers that are actually following the precepts of the scientific method will have to put forward theories that explain or at least explain better *all* of the existing data on nutrition than other theories of human nutrition. “Researchers” (really marketers in lab coats) out to show a low-carb diet is the best diet for humans have the scientific obligation to address the fact that populations around the world and throughout history for which reliable data exist that have/had the lowest level of chronic diseases were those for whom carbohydrates represented the vast majority of their calories and that those with the worst health are those with the highest consumptions of animal protein and saturated fat. This body of evidence can not simply be ignored, or you are not doing real science, you are doing marketing research.

          The Paleo folk need to explain those same populations in order for their theory that grains, legumes, and for some tubers represent a nutritional harm to modern human health of such a magnitude that they must be completely eliminated from the diet, since those healthy populations obtain their carbohydrates from exactly those same foods.

          Neither group actually does that. In fact it appears that they will work very hard to ignore inconvenient facts. The low-carb crowd especially will pick very narrow study populations, often obese patients with multiple chronic diseases, then divide them into groups with minimal differentiation in overall diet and followed for a short period of time. These researchers then take any small decrease in soft end points of chronic disease (weight, BP, cholesterol level, etc.) as clear indication of the superiority of the study diet and the ineffectiveness of alternate diets that are usually mislabeled to make the dietary difference between groups seem broader than it actually is. “low-fat” diets are usually the dietary bad guys in these studies, though the diets of those in the “low-fat” group are hardly low fat. They then take that conclusion completely out of context to state that it is the superior diet for everybody to eat for a lifetime.

          So while we might never know the absolutely best diet for the general human animal, we very much know some of its major features. It will get most of its calories from complex carbohydrates, i.e. starch; it will also feature significant amounts of non-starchy vegetables, whole fruit and nuts/seeds; it will minimize consumption of animal products, especially dairy; and it will minimize highly refined carbohydrates, added sugars and added oils. A diet with those outlines fits the observed data better than any other so far proposed. Any future “best” diet will have to do a better job of explaining that data.

    • Michael Gaines

      I make a delicious fat coffee. It’s butter,coconut oil, coco powder, cinnamon, 4oz coffee, 2 tbl heavy whipping cream. Melt oils; mix coco and cinnamon add coffee and cream and whip good wit swe enter of choice. Delicious and I don’t snack on a dam thing for 5 to 6 hours afterwards… it’s wonderful.

      Ketogenics has my diabetes 6 weeks into remission.

      • Veggie Eric

        And that type of coffee sounds like a nice warm cup of heart-attack with a side of diabetes. =D Sorry I had to.

        Your passion is admirable but i fear misplaced. Have you heard of Walter Kempner of Duke University? He was reversing kidney failure and type II diabetes with only rice and fruit (carbs and sugar). I am attaching these videos for my own amusement as you don’t seem to be watching anyone elses video attachments so I won’t believe you’ll watch these either but what the heck.. just for fun, maybe you’ll take a looksee.

        Rice and fruit diet here ~~~>
        http://nutritionfacts.org/video/drugs-and-the-demise-of-the-rice-diet/
        http://nutritionfacts.org/video/kempner-rice-diet-whipping-us-into-shape/

        Videos that support saturated animal fat as the cause of type 2 diabetes here ~~>
        http://nutritionfacts.org/video/diabetes-as-a-disease-of-fat-toxicity/
        http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-saturated-fat-studies-set-up-to-fail/
        http://nutritionfacts.org/video/eggs-and-diabetes/
        http://nutritionfacts.org/video/plant-based-diets-and-diabetes/
        http://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-to-treat-diabetes/

        I can keep providing you with more videos showing the danger of saturated animal fat… maybe if we keep offering up the information a lightbulb might go off eventually. In the mean time keep up your research. knowledge is power.

        • Michael Gaines

          Yes but I prefer dr. Westone and Dr Jason Fung. & Dr. ATTIA

          You’re not listening… I’ve tried it your way without success.

          Rice is poison to a diabetic.

          We have over 50 years of clinical data and growing. Dr’s can no longer not consider high fat diets to especially treat this disease.

          My own cardiologist is LCHF 10 + years now…

          We’re just going to disagree. I’ll watch you video tomorrow though.

          • Veggie Eric

            I think it’s ironic that you are the one stomping around this site in a self righteous huff telling everyone that we are all wrong as if you are some sort of self appointed diet guru here to school Dr Greger and staff about nutrition. That type of troll behavior is unappealing to the majority here who take offense to your authoritative condescending pro-fat retoric. You sir are being a troll of the worst kind… There are plenty of keto blog sites and low-carb junk-science profiteering sites where I’m sure you and the rest of the butteratarians will feel right at home. You can visit amongst your selves and get together for long walks on the beach with mug fulls of lard and sanka but this is not one of those sites. Have a great day!

          • Michael Gaines

            I think your bullying me is ironic. I’m simply sharing factual science and you’re going bonkers over clinical facts and my own success.

            By the way I see vegan nutjob invading LCHF sites all the time and I never tell the to get lost or that they are crazy etc. I stick to the facts and present only true clincal studies. I read both Low fat and high fat content and both seem to have merit.

            Right now I’m very happy I came upon high fat. It’s saved me 200+ insulin injections in the last 6 weeks. It’s kept me very satisfied, and it’s kept glucose level very controlled as compared to uncontrolled with Insulin.

            These are facts. You appear to be afraid of science facts and examples of success if they fall outside of your wfpb diets program… GET A THICKER SKIN… WE ARE NOT ALL ALIKE AND DON’T EQUALLY RESPOND TO ONE STOP APPROACH TO FIND BETTER HEALTH.

          • Veggie Eric

            No need to shout, I apologize if I came across to harsh…

            Yes, but you’re on forum that promotes a low-fat plant-based lifestyle and you are posting mis-information about a dangerous fad diet. Happy that you are losing weight but you’re not curing your diabetes, you are only masking the symptoms of the disease.

            Think about this… As long as you are on a high fat diet technically your fasting glucose should never be able to return to normal 80s because of lipotoxicity, explained by Dr Greger in the videos I listed above.

            But, if you switched to a rice and fruit diet (carbs and sugar) your fasting glucose should be able to get under 100 within a month, maybe less.

            I would in all honesty stop wasting your time and health on these crazy high-fat keto fad diets. This video alone showing beta cell death from high levels of saturated animal fat should have you stopping this crazy keto thing asap. What did your beta cells ever do to you? =)

            Did you have a chance to look up Walter Kempner yet? Remember the guy at Duke University treating kidney disease with only rice and fruit?

            ~~~> This guy
            http://nutritionfacts.org/video/drugs-and-the-demise-of-the-rice-diet/
            http://nutritionfacts.org/video/kempner-rice-diet-whipping-us-into-shape/

          • Michael Gaines

            I know where I’m posting and I’m not rejecting people have success on your ideas. I’m telling you I’ve tried plant based ideas and they did not work for me at all. 60 days into it I was still injecting insulin regularly.

            With ketogenics my blood sugars greatly normalized in 3 days and it 6 weeks and I’m still highly normalized without diabetes drugs.

            As for a claim of misinformation; this is an exaggeration statement by you. I have posted factual studies only that are scientifically validated studies by scientists and medical professionals. John Hopkins and Duke university, and government peer reviewed studies are not data points of misinformation. They prove with clarity dietary saturated fats din the increase cardiovascular disease and do greatly help especially diabetics and the obese.

            I will look up walter. But you need to look up Dr’s Jason fung; weston, and Attia… they publish and teach rapid ways of curing disease with fasting, sugar fasting diets to include low fat &

          • Michael Gaines

            A Normal Glucose ACVORDING TO THE ADA is between 80 & 120. The body works hard to keep you at 100. LOW glucose is much more immediately dangerous than a high glucose as it can kill you immediately. High glucose takes longer and you won’t die immediately if your glucose is 800 right now; but that would be crazy unbelievable to maintain for a week or more..

            I’ll check out your videos and you should check out Dr’s Jason fung; weston; & Attia.

            There is this sort of political battle between low fat and low carb advocates. I’m interested in the science and what really works for the various indivuduals.

            In my case high fat low carb has been awesome these past 6 weeks…someone else may do awesome on wfpb diets; I’ve never claimed that’s baloney or doesn’t work. In fact I know it does for many…

            I’m more opened minded here though it seems because I realize one diet shoe doesn’t fit all people and it’s clear to me this is clinically correct too because both sides have scientific data to validate their beliefs or findings…

          • Veggie Eric

            Well, not exactly… You’re fasting glucose range is not correct… Just to be sure i googled it. This is what i found.

            ~~> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2002/05/25/fasting-part-one.aspx
            or here ~~~> https://www.virginiamason.org/whatarenormalbloodglucoselevels
            or here ~~> http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/diabetes/basics/tests-diagnosis/con-20033091

            Normal blood glucose is between 70-99. 100-120 is insulin resistant or pre-diabetic, Over 125 is diabetic.

            Here’s a snip from Joes site.

            ————– snip! —————–
            People with a fasting
            blood sugar level of 100-125 mg/dl had an adjusted nearly 300% increase
            higher risk of having coronary heart disease than people with a
            level below 79 mg/dl. This information was compiled from a cross-sectional
            study of nearly 2500 people.

            A fasting blood sugar
            level of more than 125 mg/dl is the current threshold for identifying
            patients with diabetes. But the new finding suggests that patients
            with high levels of blood sugar in the nondiabetic range face a
            substantial risk of coronary heart disease.

            The Cleveland Clinic
            Foundation now uses a fasting blood sugar of 90 mg/dl or higher
            as a biomarker of coronary heart disease risk. The Cleveland Clinic
            gets very concerned when they someone with a fasting blood sugar
            above 90 mg/dl. They try to intervene with exercise, diet and weight
            control.

            The previous cutoff of
            125 mg/dl was based on the incidence of diabetic retionopathy, but
            physicians now increasingly focus on the diabetes-related risk of
            coronary heart disease. As evidence continues to grow in this area
            it is likely the definition of diabetes will change.

            ————–end snip!—————–

            So like I was saying… If your goal is to just control diabetes symptoms with a high-fat diet that’s your call… but if you want to rid yourself of the disease you’ll need to knock off the keto stuff and get on a WFPB diet. A high fat diet is a triple whammy of insulin resistance, heart disease, not to mention the beta cell death connected to saturated animal fat. How many more beta cells do you want to kill off before your pancreas is non functional? Pretty big risk just to prove a point about keto diets.

            good luck to you on your health journey.

          • Michael Gaines

            Well not exactly because Its critical to know how much insulin you secrete to maintain a normal fasting glucose. If you secrete more insulin than is needed to control glucose then that’s a sign of prediabetes.

            I have plenty that come in under 100 on my meter and it’s only getting better each week. But I have no idea how much insulin I crank out to get it there.

            If I fast for 24 hours I’m always under 100. In fact if I fast for 10 hour I’m under 100. Also it depends on when you take your fasting measurement. If you do it upon waking it can go over 100 easily because your liver kicks in to wake you up and it does thst by creating glucose from dietary proteins. This will temporaryly increase blood sugar and is perfectly normal.

            What I’ve deduced here is that you know little and have zero personal experience with diabetes…

          • Veggie Eric

            and… you’ve deduced wrong. My old man was diabetic. Watched him prick his finger and inject insulin every day at the kitchen table. Please keep your stories strait Mike, earlier you said your fasting glucose was DOWN to 108? I always presume fasting glucose is taken in the morning on an empty stomach. Good luck to you,

          • Michael Gaines

            Your father being diabetic is not you having experience with diabetes personally. My 7 year old grandaughter actually loves to stick my fingers and inject my insulin. Does that make her an expert? NO, certainly not… I let her do that while visiting me because like most kids she had a needle phobia. I’m pleased to say she’s cured of that and her experience with giving me shots helped her get over her own concerns regarding shots. But she doesn’t know a darn thing about a day in the life with diabetes.

            Well I did wake up to a 108 that right after 7 hours sleeping. I woke up another day with a 95 too. I be woken with. 125 to even 150 or more before my diet and only after taking insulin before bed. Ketogenics has me regularly waking to normal glucose levels.

            A fasting glucose is after 12 to 24 hours without eating. If I fast my number are in the low 100’s or mid 90’s. Does this mean my diabetes is cured? NO…Absolutely not, it means it’s much better controlled.

            The blood levels you listed by mayo are intended as potential indicators that *may* suggest a person is” pre or diabetic.” No doctor can or will ever make a diagnosis on “a finger stick.” Stress and physical trauma can raise blood glucose Levels for example. Instead Dr’s usually require an A1C test to evaluate a 90 day window of glucose levels. Most Dr’s, don’t consider you prediabetes until it’s 6.3 & not truly diabetic until you’re 7 or higher. Your nondiabetic in the 4, 5, and low 6 range.

            But again I remind you that you could have a perfectly normal blood sugar and be well on your way to diabetes… E.g., what good is an 80 or 90 glucose if your pancreas is spitting out 2 to 3 times more insulin than should be necessary to keep your sugars normal? It’s the excess insulin that causes resistance just as it’s pain pills that causes pain resistance in a body..we build up tolerances in our bodies, 500mg kills the pain for a month, then next month you need 750mg, and then a 1000 mg etc to stop the same pain… it’s work exactly the same for insulin resistance. High sugar is a *symptom* it’s not the disease. The disease is insulin and the body’s cells not responding to insulin. The cells are fed up with tons of insulin always in the blood stream and they simply refuse to let the insulin unlock their doors.

            It’s not fat clogging a receptor thst prevents this. If it were then obese bariatric patients wouldn’t cure the disease in a few weeks? They eat high fat low volume meals post of surgery. They are very overweight in fact super obese as they journey to lose weight but after surgery for a year or more they are still fat and they quit being diabetic weeks after surgery.

            These are facts. If it was fat blocking the beta cells why isn’t it blocking the beta cells while these people work to loose Hundreds of pounds? They are fat, they had diabetes but days or weeks post of surgery they are cured…

            Excess insulin secretion is the cause of diabetes. It’s not fat, outside of the fatty acid created when we store body fat.

          • Veggie Eric

            Time to take it someplace else Michael. Your low-carb trolling is done here. Have a nice day.

          • Michael Gaines

            I’ll keep Updating my progress, because it’s important for people to know the clinical facts and success stories from diabetics that quickly reverse their disease on LCHF diets. I feel their pain and there are many ways one can reverse this terrible sugar disease.

          • Michael Gaines

            I’ll keep Updating my progress, because it’s important for people to know the clinical facts and success stories from diabetics that quickly reverse their disease on LCHF diets. I feel their pain and there are many ways one can reverse this terrible sugar disease.

            You and your immature trolling comments speaks volumes of your intolerance and others opinions. Lol hahahaha lol.

          • Michael Gaines

            High fat does not kill beta cells nor does it wear the pancreas out. Fat doesn’t cause the pancreas to spit out a drop of insulin. Sugars turn on the pancreas insulin flood gates…

            It’s clear you’re lost in space with regard to the endocrine system…

          • Veggie Eric

            LOL! This very video that you are in the comment section of is all about saturated animal fat killing beta cells. You don’t even watch the videos your commenting on?! So funny! Scroll up to the top of this page and press play… You’re a riot man. =P

          • Michael Gaines

            Yeah and I’m saying it wrong. So what?

          • Michael Gaines

            Well its a video I’m commenting on because I take issue with that claim.

            Tell us do you know the difference from “might” & “will”; “may” &”shall” ; “can” & “does.”

            The headline is misleading because it does clinically prove saturated fat does what it claims.

            Qualifier words as used in the headline are carefully choose to present a bias in the absence of science.

            My commenting on the article is in crtisizm… So what…

          • Veggie Eric

            So what? Sooooo… you’re being a typical low-carb troll… You have plenty of low-carb blogs and websites to go to… but no, you come here to harass vegans and try to disparage Dr Gregers work. I am actually surprised that the admins on this site let you stink up the place like you did and are doing. I think your work is done here. On to the next vegan site. You’ve stunk this place up good and proper. Congratulation,

          • Michael Gaines

            I don’t believe in trolls. I believe in facts and clinical data. Your site is a health site and I’m simply sharing options that work well.

            You appear to have very thin skin and an intolerance of ideas that don’t walk your vegan plank.

            Sorry I can’t help you with that either. Eating… it’s an individual choice. I think vegetarian diets are okay provided you’re getting adequate proteins and fats. I think vegetarian diets are beneficial for people with good metabolism to start with and again only if the moderate carbohydrates and sugars.

            I also agree with the science that proves dietary fat does not increase saturated fats in our circulation nor does it cause coronary vascular disease or cancer In most instances. I agree for insulin resistant people high fat is an effective dietary method to quickly normalize glucose levels as well as insulin levels.

            Sorry to inform you of this fact. But you can’t go on any LCHF site and not find it without heavy attacks by vegan nutjobs telling them their all going to die, they are doomed to get cancer, their hearts are filling with fat blah blah blah…

            I’m one man sharing success with LCHF eating… what are you so afraid of?

          • Veggie Eric

            No… you’re being “that guy”… The one dude who stands up at a lecture hall and tells the speaker, and everyone in attendance that they are all full of it and you know better. You are being “that guy” here in this forum… To witch someone should tug the mic out of your hand and security should politely escort you out. again… have a nice day.

          • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

            Hey Michael thanks for your comments. You can certainly disagree with any citations in the “sources cited” section but please refrain from using inappropriate language here on the site. I know I answered a question for you before and it was a good one! I think we can all be civil :-) Thanks for understanding

  • Matt K

    Glad I chose the cheese-free pizza over the rest at a colloquium the other day.

  • Daniel Wagle

    Nuts, seeds and avocados don’t cause this, even though they have some saturated fat, although they probably don’t because most of their fat is not saturated. Would coconut oil cause the death of these beta cells because most of its fat is saturated?

    • Charles Peden

      I would also like to know this. There are different saturated fats including saturated fats made by the human body during de novo lipogenesis. Not sure why the body would evolve to make something autotoxic.

      • Jim Felder

        Almost certainly the dose (and probably duration/frequency) makes the poison. The amount of saturated fat generated by lipogenesis would be proportional to the amount of excess calories consumed. The diet humans likely evolved eating would have meet caloric needs with little excess due to satiation mechanisms designed to limit over consumption, so the concentration of saturated fats in circulation would have been low and might not have reached a toxic threshold. Occasionally there would be a windfall of food (the mighty hunter finally managed to bag an animal, says the wife with a roll of her eyes :) and so there might have been a short duration burst of excess calories as well as dietary saturated fat. But there would have been time between such excesses for the body to recover. Plus evolutionary success largely depended on making it to 35-40, 50 tops when the kids are grown and have kids of their own. So the price of killing off some beta cells that might result in diabetes by age 60 in order to get and store enough calories to stave off starvation in the short term, would likely have been an acceptable evolutionary trade-off that would have increased overall fitness.

        But in today’s food environment with Easter for Breakfast, Thanksgiving for lunch, Christmas for dinner and a birthday party for dessert nearly every day, that carefully balanced trade-off is knocked for a loop. Now we can become insulin resistant in our teens, type II diabetic in our 20’s, and kill off all of our beta cells by the time we are 30.

    • Lawrence

      Hi Daniel. You make a good point about nuts, etc., all rich sources of monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFAs). For me, this paper (listed in this video’s ‘Sources Cited’ section) explains why nuts are so good for us:
      http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1440-1746.2009.05823.x/full

      For the benefit of others who may be new to NutritionFacts, here’s Dr. Greger’s videos on nuts:
      http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/nuts/

      Regarding coconut oil, I use it to keep my bamboo cutting boards from cracking, and that’s about it. ;-)

    • Brux

      And your information on nuts and avocados comes from where? Good question though, I thought the same thing … is it the saturarted fat or the animal fat?

      • Daniel Wagle

        My information came from this very video. One statement in this video is ” The fats found predominantly in meat and dairy—chicken and cheese are the two main sources in the American diet—are almost universally toxic, whereas the fats found in olives, nuts, and avocados are not.” Other studies indicate that monounsaturated fat is good for preventing Diabetes, whereas saturated fat contributes to it.

        • Brux

          The text that was quoted 30 second into the video says “exposure of human islet cells to fatty acid” … and fatty acid is defined as “In chemistry, particularly in biochemistry, a fatty acid is a carboxylic acid with a long aliphatic tail (chain), which is either saturated or unsaturated. ” -from Wikipedia.

        • Michael Gaines
          • Daniel Wagle

            I was mainly quoting from this video. One of the sources this video cited, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18481955 stated, “This insulin deficiency results from pancreatic beta-cell dysfunction and death. Western diets rich in saturated fats cause obesity and insulin resistance, and increase levels of circulating NEFAs [non-esterified (‘free’) fatty acids]. In addition, they contribute to beta-cell failure in genetically predisposed individuals.”

          • Veganrunner

            Michael if you go to nutrition topics above and click on chicken and cheese or dairy you will find a bunch of videos to listen to. If you don’t like to listen to the videos, the transcript is below the video (see view transcript). Each video is referenced if you then want to read the research articles. That would be a great place to start. If you have diabetes I would highly recommend you spend some time on this site. To Good Health.

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Great questions, Daniel. Dr. Greger points out the differences in this video. From the transcript “Unlike saturated animal fats, coconut oil doesn’t cause that spike inflammation immediately after consumption of animal foods, which makes sense because as you’ll remember it may be the dead bacterial endotoxins in animal products ferried into the body by saturated fat that are to blame.”

  • Autumn Sage

    This is off topic, but I understand that this is the place to ask questions on any topic. With regard to the video http://nutritionfacts.org/video/avoiding-chicken-to-avoid-bladder-infections/, do you think that dry kibble dog food (most brands are made with at least some chicken and many of us handle daily dog food daily) could be a source of chicken in our homes that contributes to bladder infections? Thank you for all you do.

  • Veggie Eric

    Brutal… So i guess low-carb diets can now be called the “beta-cell killing diet”. =D One more reason to ditch oils and animal foods.

    • Michael Gaines

      No its a fatty acid your liver only creates when storing fat because of excess carbohydrate or sugars. Fatty acid only created in the excess of carbohydrate….
      https://news.osu.edu/news/2014/11/21/study-doubling-saturated-fat-in-the-diet-does-not-increase-saturated-fat-in-blood/

      • Veggie Eric

        Hello Michael! So nice of you to reply to my comment. It was a bit tongue in cheek but accurate none the less. I appreciate your enthusiasm for health and the health journey you are now embarking on. I started my health restoration journey 4 years ago after a lifetime of illness, weight problems and constant sickness. During those years I believed in the low-carb mindset just like you…. I would do things like tossing out the buns on my burgers and wrapping them in lettuce instead. I would eat lots of yogurt, grass fed bison, wrapped turkey cold cuts around cheese making sure to get enough protein and healthy fats in my diet all the while staying away from anything I deemed carbs…. I did this style of eating up until I was 43 years old. I was for the most part doing a high fat/meat, low-carb diet just like what you are advocating… So I have experience in the diet you are promoting… over that time I was the sickest I’ve even been… clumps of kidney stones, colitis, cancerous colon ploys, GERD, joint pain, 110 fasting glucose, over weight and sick with the flu, colds and infections all the time. I blamed it on getting old… It couldn’t possibly be my ‘healthy’ low-carb diet right? How wrong I was… Then I stumbled upon this site many years ago and it changed my life. I’ve been a WFPB vegan for 4 years and I now weigh 130lbs, have no health issues, off all meds, fasting glucose is in the 80s and generally feel 20 years younger. The best advice I can give you from someone who has been down the road you are traveling right now is don’t dismiss the power of a ‘Whole Foods Plant Based’ vegan diet to save your life and health. After you’ve done the keto thing long enough you will find out for yourself that it is unsustainable and health damaging in the long run. When that time comes this community is here to help. Be well and I hope you learn much on your journey to good health.

        This was the video that changed my thinking and I invite you to watch it all the way through and see if it doesn’t inspire you to shift your thinking away from animal foods and fat as well. At least give it a good listen and try to understand where this information is coming from. ~~~> http://nutritionfacts.org/video/uprooting-the-leading-causes-of-death/

        • Michael Gaines

          Thanks for the nice note. I. Also I’m happy the vegan lifestyle works for you. I’ve always said “know thyself” this is critical for anyone attempting to change their eating lifestyle.

          I do believe some people that attempted past protein diets did indeed develop kidney stones. I also know people that have done that on vegan diets as they too look for ways to increase plant based ways of increasing protein intake with soy and other vegan means. High protein can indeed cause an increase if kidney stones any some people while others never have issues.

          A ketogenic diet however is not a high protein diet. It’s a high fat diet, with moderate protein consumption. My protein consumption is barely outside the recommended RDA percentages…

          I also have states several times now I’m not bashing vegetables as I know they are full of nutrients. I do eat dark green vegetables such as kale, spinach, turnip and mixed greens. So I’m keeping good nutrition going each and every day.

          Many people on Atkins diet ate way to much protein and if you over consume protein its harder on the kidneys, can cause gout when consumed with high purines, and worse in large enough quantities cause insulin to secrete because protein is not carbohydrate free. All Protein has small amounts of carbohydrate,. Eat enough of it you can kick yourself out of ketosis too.

          There are many people that have been eating ketogenic diets for decades and they are quite healthy too. We can pass judgement one the sucess of one or failure of one without clear clinical data to substantiate a scientific observation. People tend to embellish and exaggerate unfortunately.

          This morning I woke up to a fasting blood glucose of 106. In the last two years eating omnivore style with insulin my morning fasting sugar has been between 150 & 170… My daily range depending on dietary intake was 50 to over 300, with a monthly average between 150 or more.

          My monthly average is 118. My range is 95 to 135, with occasional 150 ( if I accidentally eat extra carbs) and if I see my sugar is too high I just eat a little fat such as coconut oil and my glucose plummets to normal levels. Fat keeps my sugar regulated better and longer than insulin does. The trick is carbohydrate restriction.

          This diet is very satisfying. I’m never hungry and if I feel a binge I just make a fat coffee ( it’s coffee with coconut oil, butter, heavy cream, coco, cinnamon & sweetner) & that carries me for 4 or more hours without spiking sugars or insulin.

          I tried vegetarian without starch veggies on low fat. That did also seem to help with my blood sugars. But I was always starving and never satisfied. I couldn’t eat potato, beans, pasta, rice, cereal, fruit etc. I could only eat low calories nutrient rich greens and that became unsustainable for me after 3 weeks. If I introduced any fruit or starch based plant food my sugar hit the roof…

          As I started ketogenic I was eating 3,500 to 4000 calories a day at time with 75% coming from fat, 20% protein, & 5% carbs. In 3 days my blood sugars greatly improved. By week 3 I was still eating the same macro ratios, yet calories were and have been in the 1200 to 1600 calories per day. I find myself eating less now that I’m ketogenic adapted (burning my own body fat.) So weight loss is kicking in at a nice 2+ lbs a week now On top of my excellently improved blood sugars.

          Dr. Westman has been on a ketogenic diet over a decade. He’s lean, has healthy cholesterol, perfect glucose,etc. He doesn’t have kidney stones, etc. There are 1000’s of people just like him…

          I do hear your concerns. I do respect your own life story etc. But it all really comes back to knowing thyself… You discovered excess protein was adversely impacting your kidney health. You needed to reduce protein intake to avoid them… Your body can’t handle excess proteins and so this set back pushed you into a high nutrition low caloric diet. I’m truly happy you found an alternative that also works for you!

          As for now I must stay the course because I’m feeling much better than I have in 15 years. I have high energy, biked 20 miles yesterday and wasn’t even that tired when I got home. My pants are falling off aleady and my belt is cinched in a 100%, & 6 weeks ago it was out to the last notch and I was thinking I was going to have to find a bigger belt…

          I must stay the course here…
          Good luck to you and your continued quest for good health…

        • Odw

          Interesting discussions with a lots of passion on multiple sides of the argument. The current health status of the average North American is not good with the amount of disease and prescriptions that we just accept as the norm. Very troubling. We need to continue the interaction and look for the truth.
          I guess for me the positive change that has taken place for my wife and I (late 50’s) since transitioning (3 years ago) to more of a WFPB diet has been substantial. Between the two of us, off 5 prescription drugs, total weight loss of 80 lbs., excellent blood pressure, no sugar level issues, no inflammations. We love the food, don’t count calories, take no supplements save b12, always satisfied with meals, have influenced multiple family members to consider their health in connection to their lifestyles choices, and couldn’t be happier.
          So of course we will continue to read, study and consider all the new research, adjust if need be, but otherwise stay the course, because it is working well for us.

          • Veggie Eric

            Hi Odw, So glad you found success with a WFPB diet, that is awesome! I love to hear others stories. Off 5 prescriptions!? Wow, fantastic! But I’m not surprised, that’s the power of WFPB… So proud of you two. So happy to hear that.

          • Veganrunner

            VeggieEric I have a story for you. Recently a patient of mine was talking about a friend of hers that was dying from heart disease. Just kinda sitting back and waiting. She said she wanted to do something for him. I forwarded her Dr MacDougall’s website. She sent her friend to the 9 day program last month. He has gone from 22 medications down to 5. He has lost 20 pounds and has gone vegan. He has 70 pounds to go and is determined to get off the remaining 5 meds and cure his diabetes! Now that is amazing stuff!

          • Veggie Eric

            Hi Veganrunner, Wow! That is so great to hear. 22 meds?! That is incredible. He is definitely on his way to re-gaining his health. Hope he loses those last 70lbs and reaches his goal. Thanks so much for sharing. Love to hear stories like this. =)

          • Thea

            Veganrunner: That’s just so awesome! What an amazing ripple effect and powerful story. Thanks for sharing.

    • Michael Gaines

      Keep the fat; moderate the protein; limit carbs to green and leafy only.

      That’s healthy for me.

  • Ninobur

    Explanations don’t get more consise than this. Limiting saturated fat intake for those predisposed to DM type 2 is key to prevention. I wonder though if chronic exposure to high glycemic load dietary fructose wouldn’t contribute as well to beta cell destruction & NASH by a similar mechanism via metabolism of the fructose to free fatty acids.

    • Wade Patton

      please see the other videos here with regard to Diabetes. Fat is the problem: http://nutritionfacts.org/video/Diabetes-as-a-Disease-of-Fat-Toxicity and three more up there in Dr.s Notes. No video here is an island, there are always links to others on same/similar topics.

    • Darryl

      High fructose ingestion is indeed another suspect, because it 1) bypasses the main rate-limiting step in glycolysis in the liver, catalysed by phosphofructokinase, and 2) has limited intestinal absorption, with the unabsorbed portion fermented in the small intestine, leading to dysbiosis, endotoxemia, and fatty liver.

      Its important to note that whole fruit ingestion doesn’t appear share the effects of added sugars or fruit juices, as the fiber and polyphenols of whole fruit both limits the intestinal absorption rate, and has an antimicrobial effect on small intestine pathobionts.

      • George

        Question: Does fructose have a unique function in the body? Is it an essential nutrient? If one ate a fructose-free diet, would he or she develop health problems due to fructose deficiency? (Just started reading Lustig’s Fat Chance and wondering about this; maybe he addresses the issue later in the book.)

      • What do you think about drinking whole fruit juice with or after a fiber-filled meal (say some elderberry juice after your morning oat bran)?

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Darryl makes a great point. Check out this video about how much fruit is too much. If diabetic, perhaps fruits lower in the glycemic index are more beneficial.

  • albert

    It is probably worth mentioning there are quite a few studies confirming protective effect of coffee/caffeine on both hepatic and pancreatic beta cells. There is also a pretty strong epidemiological correlation between consumption of coffee and reduced risk of diabetes and also of pancreatic and liver cancers (if I remember correctly there was a NF video about at least the latter). And the effect is pretty strong in terms of risk reduction percentages.. Not such bad news!

    • Wade Patton

      Coffee, unadulterated, is good food, antioxidants and such with zero calories. There’s a video here on that.

    • Panchito

      In some people, coffee causes caffeinism. It is a very tricky thing to discover as people will unconsciously blame everything else but their daily coffee. It can potentially destroy your health and life while putting the blame somewhere else. If you ever feel bad, remember the possibility of coffee being the cause.

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Hi Albert. We have many videos on coffee! You are right, not such bad news at all for coffee drinkers.

  • flavia19

    Coconut oil is saturated fat and i have been recommending it for my patients. After listening to this video I am wondering about the benefits of coconut oil, as we know about the benefits of MCT :)

    • Darryl

      The consensus is that MCTs are fairly harmless. Unfortunately, coconut oil is 15% MCTs (8% caprylate, 7% capricate), and 73% C12-16 saturated fatty acids (48% laurate, 16% myristate, 9% palmitate). Of these, its the palmitate that has come under the greatest scrutiny, as it is a precursor to ceramides that are central to β-cell toxicity. A review:

      Chavez JA & Summers SA. 2012. A ceramide-centric view of insulin resistance.

    • NeilT

      Watching the video, I wondered about coconut oil, too. The question is, are all saturated fats created equal when it comes to killing beta cells? I’m an immigrant from Asia. Where I came from, people add coconut flesh/oil/milk to almost everything. We even added grated coconut flesh to salads. There were overweight adults but Type-2 diabetes was very rare, so rare that diabetes meant Type-1 diabetes. I’d not heard of Type-2 diabetes until I immigrated to the US. (The situation has changed now since the arrival of McDonalds, Pizza Hut, KFC, etc. about twenty years ago; now people even know what pre-diameters is.)

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Dr. Greger points out the differences in this video. From the transcript “Unlike saturated animal fats, coconut oil doesn’t cause that spike inflammation immediately after consumption of animal foods, which makes sense because as you’ll remember it may be the dead bacterial endotoxins in animal products ferried into the body by saturated fat that are to blame.” Make sure to check out the Doctor’s Note under the video and the video on “Dead Meat Bacteria Endotoxemia”

      Let me know if you cannot find or need more clarification. Thanks!

      • flavia19

        Thank you Joseph Gonzales. I did miss the information.

  • Annie

    What about chocolate? Not animal. It has a lot of saturated fat. My favorite has 20 g of fat, 11 g being saturated fat per 43 g serving.

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Hi Annie. Thanks for asking. We have some great videos and research on chocolate. See if these help?

      Best,
      Joseph

    • 2tsaybow

      Coco powder doesn’t have fat! I sprinkle it on my blueberries when I want to have a snack!

  • Cathy Katin-Grazzini

    Do we know if coconut in its whole form (coconut “meat”), not to mention its processed forms (butter, milk, oil etc) with its very high level of saturated fats causes the same damagae to pancreatic beta cells as animal products?

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Coconut seems to have a different impact. Dr. Greger points out the differences in this video. I think for those without cholesterol concerns a bit of whole coconut or coconut water (like the stuff from a young coconut) is fine.

  • earnest

    I’m concerned about the video’s statement: |”the predominant fat in olives, nuts, and avocados gives you a tiny bump in death protein 5″. Does this mean that ideally we should avoid all fats, both animal and plant? Could death protein 5 be a good thing in some cases, killing cancer cells, but a bad thing if directed to pancreatic beta cells? If so, then is there an optimal amount of plant fats that we should be consuming?

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      We still need a bit of fat. Dr.Greger also mentions further down that “You expose human liver cells to plant fat, and nothing happens.” From the graph in the video it’s clear that saturated fat appeared way more harmful than the fat predominately found in nuts, olives, and avocados.

  • AliceRoth

    I really appreciate Dr Gregor’s videos, but I’m still lost. When I went on a near-vegan diet, avoiding refined flour, rice and potato, my weight and lipids shot up. It was a disaster. Now eating mostly meat and veggies, I have better weight control. I haven’t had my blood fats checked yet. So I wonder, in regards to these studies, are the subjects eating SFAs and TFAs along with refined carbs? The photo for this video shows a croissant along with the “bad” meats. This is an important question. If the subjects are also eating carbs with their meat, then maybe that should be revealed and discussed.

    • 2tsaybow

      A whole food plant based diet is what is recommended on this site. That may not have been what you were eating. Just avoiding certain foods without taking the steps to make sure you are eating a WFPB diet can make you gain weight. I know this from experience.

      Really helpful dietary information can be found at ForksoverKnives.com and PCRM.org. For more specific information about lowering your lipids and weight loss, you might want to look at PCRM.org. I found their recommendations very helpful and specific for vegans. I had quit loosing weight and didn’t realize that my homemade soy milk was the problem. I just love what soy can add to a sauce, but it does that by adding fat.

      Also remember, you need to eat legumes (except for soybeans which have a high fat content. They are actually labeled a “nut” by the nih because of this.) They will help pull the fat out of your system and will also help regulate you blood sugar.

      Maybe Joseph know of some other sites besides the ones I’ve mentioned that can help you create a good diet plan.
      Good luck!
      By the way, there are no good meats.

      • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

        Thanks for giving some links, 2tsaybow!

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Hi AliceRoth. I am sorry to hear you feel lost. How can I try to help? I would actually encourage the inclusion of rice and potatoes in the diet. Shoot for colored ones like brown, wild, or red rice and red, blue, or gold potatoes. They tend to have more nutrition. All of the studies to this video can be found in the “sources cited” section. From there, you can see if the subjects were also eating trans fats. Typically researchers try to control for that sort of thing. I wonder what your lipids are now, too? Let me know if I can be of more help. We have many videos on cholesterol and diet. This is a comment to a user about finding ways to lower cholesterol levels. It may be helpful. Thanks for posting!

    • Charzie

      Avoiding ANY refined or processed food including fats and oils is key, but consuming plenty of complex carbs is critical too, which includes rice and potatoes. Eating even healthy fruit (carbs) with too much fat will raise blood sugar. Once you get the values right, it works beautifully! It’s how I got rid of diabetes and other issues and lost 150 lbs five years ago.

      • Brux

        I think the public has to hear more from people who have actually DONE it.
        There are lots of people talking, and some of the even know what they are saying,
        and some of them are even right, or the rightest they can be right now.
        But, the people who have done it, need to be heard from. The problem is finding
        those people who are serious, can be trusted, can report accurately on what they
        did and honestly on what their results have been.

        I expect you are on to something about not eating processed foods. Look to what
        processed foods, all processed foods do, and they separate out nutrients and
        up concentrate carbs, sugar, salt and even protein. They take what the body naturally
        is attracted to and make it too much for the body, but very attractive for the mind.

        That makes me think that you are right about carbs, as Dr. Mcdougal has said. I don’t
        really like carbs, I do like bread, french fries, cookies, etc … but that is an addiction and
        that stuff is not good for me.

        I like meat and protein too, but I see I do not need all that meat, that is another addiction
        that I have to think about.

        Fat and salt and sugar are great, but they rarely occur in nature, and when they are
        concentrated they are again, not good.

        I’d like to know what you eat and how you go about managing your food. That is what
        people really need to find … someone who is doing something they want to do in a way
        they can stomach … pun intended.

        • Charzie

          I joke that diabetes is the best thing that ever happened to me because it was the dramatic wake up call I needed! My husband had lost a leg already to it, the drugs and his supposed ADA diet didn’t help much. I did NOT want to go that route, but had no clue at the time where to turn. Somewhere along the line I had seen the movie “Forks Over Knives”, and though it obviously made an impression, I wasn’t ready at the time to put it into action. We get pretty addicted to our food preferences! I was never much of a meat eater, though I did enjoy seafood. My major downfall was cheap carbs… bread, pasta, rice, mac and cheese, the dreaded ramen noodles..all loaded with fat for flavor, in or on! I have always loved veggies though, so overall, I ate better than most people I knew, but certainly not good enough! After watching that movie again after being diagnosed, I decided to give it a 30 day trial to see what happened. I dove in head first because I wanted results, and basically started over. Since I have a very tight budget and love my carbs, McDougall held a lot of sway…carbs are affordable and satisfying, I just had to make some adjustments. Honestly, the first week I just about lived on green smoothies while I was learning the ropes and getting oriented, and also kind of a detox for the tastebuds and body. I knew if I started feeling deprived it wouldn’t last, so I worked to figure out how to make the foods I enjoyed healthy. The internet was a HUGE help with that, and I found I was actually enjoying the challenges because I was feeling a lot better pretty quickly. I had severe arthritis, fibromyalgia, IBS, chronic fatigue syndrome, obesity, chronic depression, diabetes, high everything… and more. I was taking something like 13 medications, including narcotics for unrelenting pain and at 55 I needed a motorized cart to get around and felt like life was over. In less than 3 weeks of starting a WFPB diet, my blood sugar was normal, in six months I was off all medications and feeling like a new person. What seemed so complicated and intimidating in the beginning, has actually simplified my life tremendously in so many ways!

          You asked how I eat? I got started with McDougall, and kind of experimented with various additions and subtractions, but found I do best pretty close to his weight loss program…even eating clean I tend to hang on to the pounds. I keep the fats under 10% for my personal best results, and starches vary from 50-75 percent of my daily intake, with veggies, legumes, grains, fruit, nuts and seeds making up the rest. My usual approach to shopping is to try to buy nothing with a label…just real food that doesn’t need one. Nothing comes into the house I shouldn’t have, that makes it a lot easier. I make everything from scratch for the most part, but usually keep it pretty simple ’cause I’m lazy. (The other side of me loves to invent things, so I can get pretty creative too! Luckily I am the only one who has to eat it!) For some examples from recently, I just made a tray of baked oatmeal with bananas, apples, blueberries, dates, raisins, flax, spices and sunflower seeds, when it cools it will get cut into squares or bars and be breakfast and snacks all week. I made a big crockpot full of kala chana (dark Indian chickpeas, delicious!) and will freeze some in bags, and use the rest all week in soups, stews, pureed into sauces, whatever. Add a few veggies, let it simmer, serve over a grain…easy! I will also cook up batches of grains in bulk, and do the same…and I still eat pasta and white rice, just less of it, less often, and with better toppings! I made my own sourdough starter, and now bake all my own bread with it! Bread really is the staff of life done this way, the fermentation dramatically improves the nutritional properties even more than yeast raised, and eliminates all the issues of the “sponge” bread sold in stores that is horrid for so many reasons. It can even make healthy pizza loaded with goodies, including vegan “cheeze” I make with fermented yogurt/cashews, awesome! (Thank you Miyoko Schinner!) A quick dinner can be a nuked sweet potato (I know, but it’s quick!) with a veggie topper, miso gravy, maybe a salad. A pepper stuffed with spiced grains and legumes and simmered in sauce…15 minutes! It got a lot easier once I started mass cooking grains and legumes in advance…takes time but not work or attention, so much cheaper and always ready. I love the ethnic cuisines that are veggie based when I want something different, but mostly I keep it simple. Spicy mushed beans rolled inside a corn tortilla makes a great quick “tamale” with fermented salsa, sprouts rolled into a wheat tortilla with some tofu mayo is a goto lunch, or a green smoothie, veggie pasta salad, etc. Sprouts are fun to grow and I always have a variety going…clover, broccoli, lentils, arugula, fenugreek, and on and on! I find it a lot of fun and a healthy challenge to incorporate what I learn here about various ingredients into my diet…turmeric goes so well with so much! I even put it in my coffee with cinnamon so I don’t feel so bad about drinking it! LOL! I am really devoted to this way of eating, and the only time I ever deviate from it is the RARE occasions when I eat out, maybe 3-4 times a year. Even then, it will usually be all the good stuff, with a small treat of non fried seafood. At home I satisfy that yen with sea veggies, which works great for me. Where there’s a will there’s a way! Now I can ride my recumbent trike 5 miles or more, and before I couldn’t walk around the block. Pretty good incentive I’d say, and amazing benefits!!!

          • Brux

            Great story, I am relating to that. I have tried a lot of other stuff, but now I am trying instead of trying to change everything at once, just doing breakfast first … a big bowl of oatmeal with flax, hemp seeds and fruit/berries in it. That is so filling I don’t ever feel hungry, far from it after a few days of that … it is hard to think of eating really. That is a funny feeling for me because I usually want to eat everything all the time.

            Then at night I got motivated to try this rice diet thing with some modifications. I cook some brown rice with veggies. Between those two meals there is not a lot of room for anything else. This is a strategy I never would have thought of.

            I try not to eat much fat or oil, but that is kind of unavoidable, so a little bit I am not worrying about. Mostly I used to eat a lot of protein and sugary processed carbs. I have been able to cut that out over the years, but wondered why my weight never really changed. I think it is just the density of the food I am/was eating. Eating a lot of bulky unprocessed cards fills me up … not really very flavorful, but it works for a little over a week now. The odd thing is that I feel much better. I don’t know how to explain it but it is easier to think .. like my consciousness is lubricated and quieter. My brain purrs on a lot of carbs. How do I even describe that, or can I ascribe that to my diet or just a phase?

            I got a juicer a few years ago, and used it for a while, but it was too much hassle and work, to buy, wash, cut the veggies, and then clean up after juicing, only to make a small amount because I did not want to store my juice. I will work that back in at some point, but right now what is easiest is the carbs.

            Right now I am not worrying about if I want to eat a cookie or have an ice cream, which i will, but I just don’t have the desire for much of it anymore. That is weird for me. This is totally counter-intuititve, I think I just had to try it and see. Thanks for sharing your story.

          • Charzie

            Good for you Brux for making a conscious effort to improve your health! I wish I could motivate some of my loved ones to at least make some positive changes, but geez, no way! You are on the right track and the ways in which you are feeling better is definitely something I relate to, it is so positive and the best incentive to keep on track. The complex carbs are definitely satisfying, and a while ago I noticed something interesting, and wonder if anyone is similar…during the day I seem to crave fresh foods, and toward evening it is always cooked carbs! It’s not even a conscious choice, just seems to be what my body wants. And I love oatmeal too, though I have come to love savory versions instead of sweet. Spice up your grains with herbs, there are so many to try! I always seem to find new combos to love. I have lots of basil and tomatoes right now, so I am putting them in everything! LOL! Good luck, and congrats!

  • Lawrence

    Dr. Greger, if this website contained only this series on diabetes it would still be a tremendous public service. You and your associates continue to be a national treasure as you gallantly press on raising the signal-to-noise ratio in public information about what constitutes optimal human nutrition. Given your speaking schedule year after year it is difficult to imagine the curve isn’t beginning to bend in a favorable direction.

  • Ann

    It is amazing how people just refuse to listen to the science.

    • Wade Patton

      “The science is clear here” made me laugh and laugh and guffaw too.
      Industry and industrious folks with things to sell/promote have beaten those who choose to expose themselves to media to a bloody nub with “settled science”. NO source is golden. Everyone should read around and understand to question the motives and motivations of the sources he/she wants to believe. Dr. Greger does most of this work for us here. But I had a good background in “strange” doctors with odd nutritional ideas all the way back to the 90’s before I got here-Weil, McDougall, Ornish, Campbell, to name a few.

      I’m quite thankful to have Dr. Greger’s complilation of sorted information here for easy access and examination. ONLY after some examination of the source can one make wise decisions on who to believe. We don’t agree about everything, but most things and quite enough that I recommend this site to everyone who is polite enough to appear interested. Cheers.

  • Brux

    So, if Type-2, adult onset, diabetes is caused by fat killing off pancreatic cells … then how does a WFPB ( whole foods plant based ) diet reverse diabetes? Or does it not reverse diabetes, it just removed the stimulus for it by avoiding floods of sugar into the blood from processed sugary foods.

    Is this saying that the case is animal fat, but the provocation is too much sugar in our diet and blood, and then urine as well?

    When you lose weight, does fat some out of your stored fat and go into your body, could your own fat be harming these pancreatic cells and killing them off?

    What about plant based oils. Dr. McDougal seems to be the one most vocal about fats and oils … are vegetable oils any better than animal fats in how they affect pancreatic cells, and if so, how much.

    Do they know the mechanism behind why animal fat kills these cells, and does it kill other cells too?

    • Matthew Smith

      Hello Brux! This site does indeed include recommendations for foods to eat to reverse diabetes, presumably if most of your pancreatic beta cells have been killed. In the video How to Treat Diabetes, http://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-to-treat-diabetes/ Dr. Greger shows a vegetarian diet can reverse diabetes almost immediately.

      “You put 20 diabetics, for example, on even a near-vegetarian diet, and in 16 days, half don’t need even need their insulin any more, and those who do are on half the dose. And that’s after only about 2 weeks.”

      Meat is very expensive of insulin via the IGF-1 pathway, according to Dr. Greger.

      Specific food recommendations include:
      hibiscus tea
      cinnamon (recommended with the caveat that it’s the toxic variety that has an effect on blood sugar)
      flax seed meal
      amla http://nutritionfacts.org/video/amla-versus-diabetes/
      beans

      Thule has produced another list of recommendations from this site:

      Indian gooseberries (amla), .
      coffee,
      soy,
      flaxseeds,
      green tea,
      pulses (dried beans),
      chamomile tea,
      purple potatoes,
      sprouts,
      whole grains,
      vinegar, and http://nutritionfacts.org/video/is-vinegar-good-for-you/
      beans.

      Some people have found a Vanadium/ Chromium supplement helpful for blood sugar already in the normal range. Buckwheat, soybeans, and some spices like black pepper and dill weed have Vanadium.

      Perhaps it is the IGF-1 that kills both us and the fat that leaks out of our stomach and is very harsh on the Beta cells.

      Dr. Greger suggests plant based oils are easier for the body to digest.

      Thanks

      • Thule

        Hello Matthew, if you are referring to me, regarding that list you mention, I must say I never gave that recommendation (you might have confused me with someone else?), although as I commented to you about this topic before, it seems a good one.

        As an aside comment, personally I never take coffee, it seems that I am allergic to it.

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Hey Brux. I would look into the studies themselves to help understand the mechanisms. Let me know if you see one that catches your eye and I can pull for you.

  • Brux

    If we are going to be cynical about everyone … equally cynical, that is … why are so many of these studies coming from China, at a time when the Chinese are importing more and more meat and other products from abroad and their scientists are now telling the world, don’t eat all those meat and animal products? Isn’t that a bit hypocritical, especially for a society that can just mandate what their people have to eat?

  • Jason Alexander

    How about saturated fats in coconut oil? I put a spoonful in my smoothie in the morning. Is that good? Bad?

    • 2tsaybow

      Dr. Greger discusses coconut oil in several videos. Remember, all oils are processed foods. You don’t need them.

    • ron

      I also do about 3 x week.

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Hi Jason. Please see my comment below, as I address this important question you ask. Let me know if it helps? Thanks!

  • Michael Gaines

    Yes indeed a fat is largely responsible. However that fat is only created in the liver as the liver works to store excess sugars and carbohydrates as body fat. Dietary saturated fats even to the extreme have zero impact on glucose, insulin or cardiovascular disease.

    It’s a FAT your liver creates to deal with your excess sugars and carbohydrates…

    https://news.osu.edu/news/2014/11/21/study-doubling-saturated-fat-in-the-diet-does-not-increase-saturated-fat-in-blood/

    • More confused now than ever before. Experiment yourself and monitor your Blood Work N=1

      • Jeewanu

        This work was supported by the Dairy Research Institute, the National Cattlemen’s Beef Associationand the Egg Nutrition Centre.

        Always follow the money

      • Lawrence

        Hi Anthony. Thank you for your honesty. Adding to Jeewanu’s astute observation, consumer confusion = producer profits. One of the reasons I find following a plant-based lifestyle so satisfying is that I get to say ‘NO!’ to everyone who is trying to make and keep me chronically sick so they can live very comfortably at the expense of the suffering of so many people including myself.

        Please view the following video, making sure to read ‘Doctor’s Note’ for additional videos providing a more complete perspective on just exactly how food producers create consumer confusion to maintain profits. And keep coming back!
        http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-saturated-fat-studies-set-up-to-fail/

      • Michael Gaines

        Fat does not raise blood sugar nor does it invoke insulin secretion.

        Diabetes is a problem caused from the secretion of to much insulin over long periods of time, high blood sugar is a symptom of the disease only after the cells start ignoring insulin. Insulin is the key to the door that lets sugar into the cell. Over secretion of insulin create cell resistance whereby it takes more and more insulin to get the cell to respond and open to enable sugar into the cell.

        B=body
        S= sugar or carbohydrate
        I= Insulin
        R= Resistance or disease

        BxS=I
        SXI=R
        B+S+I= one diseased body 4 sure

        Lol…just having fun now…

    • 2tsaybow

      Who are you and why are you here? Saturated fats have been proven to cause insulin resistance. This is a site provided by a physician with a number of medical volunteers who provide information in the comment section.

      A ketogenic diet is very harmful in the long run. Dr. Greger has written a book on the subject and it would help you tremendously to read it. It may be working for you now, but it is not sustainable and it is possibly carcinogenic for you to eat so much meat and saturated fat. Also, the lack of fruits in you diet is not at all healthy.

      You need to talk to a dietitian, rather than making this choice by yourself. It is not a healthy choice even if you have your insulin under control at this time.
      Joseph Gonzales R.D. is the dietitian working on this site. I recommend you take the steps to contact him. Maybe he know someone in your area that you can work with.
      Please be careful!

      • Michael Gaines

        I’m a living example ketogenics works to reverse diabetes.

        My Cardiologist suggested it strongly.

        The OSU study clearly demonstrates this is a safe method & further proves it’s carbohydrates and a fatty acid created in the liver only in the presence of carbohydrates that cause insulin resistance & inflamation.

        It’s a validated clinical study. Sure low calorie works too if you font mind starving and never fully satisfied. But you’re just wrong as there is considerable evidence that dietary saturated fats are good not bad for almost everyone but especially for diabetics.

        If you want a censored moderated forum then censure me. I don’t csre, but it is your ignorance that is more harmful than my sharing factual clincal data and my own success.

        Thst shouldn’t bother you at all. Your approach isn’t for everyone e and I feel happy to share my success and learnings with others.

        Your right saturated fats in the blood are not a good thing, I agree completely. However, dietary saturated fats fo not elevate saturated fats in the blood. Read the study…it’s clear…excess sugars and carbs create a nasty fatty acid that is the true cause.

        I’ve paid for dieticians, they told me to eat whole grains and veggies and fruits and that made me sicker. I had 400lb dietician advise me on how to maintain weight control while injecting 120 to 130 units of insulin a day and even had them recommending a $7,000.00 pump.

        6 weeks ago I said no. Dived in and it’s going very well. I haven’t injected insulin in 6 weeks now and I’m slowly losing weight and I’m never binging or hungry etc… I simply couldn’t be happier.

        Read this study before you go primal on me… Your doctor should read it as well and he too might find this as an alternative for his patients thst can’t tolerate vegetarian diets…

        https://news.osu.edu/news/2014/11/21/study-doubling-saturated-fat-in-the-diet-does-not-increase-saturated-fat-in-blood/

        • 2tsaybow

          Michael, I am not threatening you nor am I going to go primal. I simply said that a ketogenic diet has many drawbacks. I find it astonishing that a cardiologist would recommend it. He must not have looked into the nutritional science of this subject. He is not giving you good advice. Tell him I said that he needs to take a nutrition course. He should contact Dr. McDougall and speak with him about the problems with this diet. (Or Dr. Furman, Dr. Ornish, Dr. Drake, or right here on this site Dr. Greger)

          I have already dealt with my issues by changing to a healthy WFPB diet. And I am going to begin the eCornell nutrition program so that I can work with Diabetics in a community I already serve. (Maybe your cardiologist wants the details for this class!) I do not eat meat, dairy, or eggs and I find the fact that this one single study supports your diet problematic. Particularly since these are the very foods that most doctors are telling people to reduce or avoid.

          I just want you to know the drawbacks of a ketogenic diet and I want you to know that what you are doing cannot be a permanent solution. Because of the way ketosis affects your system it cannot be a permanent way of eating.

          I understand your questioning a 400 pound dietician, but that is not all dietitians. You want one who is well informed with the current scientific information; and of course someone who walks the walk.

          Please for me, look into the drawbacks of a ketogenic diet. I know you feel great right now, but there are some real issues with this diet, including sudden cardiac death. (You may want a new cardiologist when this is taken into consideration.) You can find a middle path that keeps you from having to take insulin and medication and keeps your blood sugar in balance while keeping you satisfied. Dr. Greger has written a book on the subject of a ketogenic diet, and there are lots of resources on a WFPB diet, including this site.
          Many many doctors agree with this.
          Please be careful.
          One other thing, If you go to forksoverknives.com and look at the contributors you will find many, many, many doctors involved in this way of eating. None of them, absolutely none of them, make money or profits from recommending these dietary choices.
          The one study you have pasted all through this comment section cannot make that claim.
          My best to you!

          • Matthew Smith

            Thanks for sharing. I am really happy to hear from you, since you are a vegan(?) How do you recommend going vegan? It’s really important to get nine fresh fruit and vegetable servings a day, and your whole grain and fiber. Which I don’t. Does this mean a lot of eating for you? I think the hardest part is getting started and realizing you’ll lose a few childhood favorites. There are meat substitutes available and being vegan can be a cost trimming workout for any budget. Do you find yourself cooking less or more? Since Dr. Greger says here the biggest source of animal fats is from chicken and cheese in America, I think he is suggesting he is winning some small part of the debate, they used to be health foods. I am glad this community is carving out a victory of scientific consensus. Vegan is super possible for you and me and is really practical. I am glad there is a place to research the “eat less meat and get more exercise” that doctors are always trying to point out, right here at nutritionfacts.org

          • Wade Patton

            How I became WFPB eater. One day at a time. I read up and read some more, then made the decision. Knowing that I had successfully eaten similarly before, but with weekends “free for all” made it easier. I started with weekends “free”. But a funny thing happened around day 3. I felt better. All over, and mentally clearer. This I did not expect. I cut oil, sugar, and animal products. I was simply wanting to lose a few pounds and help my arteries clear up and maintain by mental faculties as long as possible-all whilst turning down my chances at landing a cancer. But I felt better, and liked that feeling. Less aches and pains and mental fog. Coffee is now regular, but optional for me (haven’t had any today). I also began recording my wieght daily (computer program, tracks and graphs, makes it hyper-easy). My weight started dropping without exercise or caloric restrictions. I had established a good looking chart of steadily declining weight by Easter this year. That day I allowed myself to partake in the “feast” sort of meal where I did restrict my intake because everything was loaded with fat and animal products (I now take some of “my” food to gatherings). I had two “small” plates of this and one piece of chocolate pie. The next day my weight popped up and made a mess of my chart. It put a FOUR pound spike in the line and took two days to get back to my new “normal” descending weight line. Two weeks later, I ate a large meal of BBQ which resulted in a two-pound spike which took three days to resolve. The effect was quite clear enough for me to “get it”. I now am quite restrictive when eating non-WFPB items. Dropped my BMI over 2 points and still haven’t started back cycling as I usually do. But look forward to that, expecting better performance from better plumbing and all the other improvements “built-in” to WFPB eating. To be fully clear: I don’t diet or restrict any WFPB calories, but sometimes have tiny portions of “old favorites” knowing that it will take my body a day or two to recover from such. I expect the desire to do such will wane and fade, but that I’m not ready to say “never” to some of my most-loved old foods. I do believe I can be quite healthy with rare indulgences now and then.

            CAN’T wait so see what my cholesterol numbers are now! Also, haven’t had a migraine, got off PPI’s (GERD), don’t have to take Saw Palmetto for BPE any more.

            Now I’ll have my morning meal of stone-ground grits (polenta) with blueberries and strawberries with ground flaxseed sprinkled over and a cup of African coffee “pressed” and a D3 supplement. Or maybe I scramble tofu with mushrooms/onions/peppers. Don’t know until it happens. Also, I typically base “lunch” around a baked potato or sweet potato (or three). Easy convenient fast-and HEALTHY!

          • 2tsaybow

            Matthew thank you for your considered response and questions. I started this way of eating in September 2014 because I was really feeling ill, and I knew that my blood sugar was totally out of wack. I heard about nutritionfacts.org on the Thom Hartman show and came to this site. Once I started watching the videos, I realized that just stopping sugar wasn’t going to solve the problem. I ordered amla on the internet, and started using it and at the same time stopped eating meat, dairy, and eggs. I found it very easy to quit because frankly I was just sore as hell. Within three days of stopping chicken and eggs the fibromyalgia pain started to diminish.
            I thought I would have a hard time giving up cheese, but it really wasn’t that hard. It’s weird I was a vegetarian from age 16 to 23 but because it was for moral purposes, it never occurred to me that it was a healthier way of eating,

            I have been polite with my family and I’ve eaten fish a couple of times when everyone comes together. Last week for Father’s day, my husband put some chicken on skewers and I put veggies in thee rest. I didn’t offer to cook the meat, he cooked it.

            I do cook a bit more because I keep a bowl of beans, or some type of salad with sprouted beans in the fridge for the week. I also keep canned beans in the cupboard for quick meals. I make a lot of Indian dishes and have enjoyed learning that cuisine. I try to keep it simple and I am slowly eliminating oil from my diet.

            I wish more people knew that this way of eating and living is possible. A few weeks ago a person from an Oklahoma tribe came to one of our computer classes and even though she works for the diabetes program for her tribe, she had never heard of a WFPB diet. She had lost 50 pounds through calorie restriction and exercise, but she has another 90 pounds to go. Once she told me she could never give up meat, I kept my mouth shut. That’s when I began looking into getting the certificate through eCornell. I just feel that mouthing off about what I have learned is not enough and that having some credentials would help me vocalize what a whole food plant based diet is and how to change to living on it.

          • Matthew Smith

            Thank you very much for your encouragement. I found I feel better as a vegetarian. I, who knew, have a milk allergy (really dark circles under the eyes). So I am making a long term plan to be a vegan. Did you know this diet can add six or seven years to your life? I am actually feeling kind of impatient for Dr. Greger’s year in review nutrition video and his book on life extension. I am so happy you found a cure and treatment for your fibromyalgia. I really enjoy the support. I hope you feel very proud to be here among so many like minded peoples. Vegetarianism is rare amongst the population. I like being in a community that recommends vegetarianism as a cure for many of the Western illnesses. I am not surprised nutritionfacts supporters know you are right, I am surprised that you produce so much content knowing that adkins seems to get so much more air time. Thank you for sharing, it projects a healthier life for all. Why is there so much diabetes among Native Americans? I think it might be malpractice… Good luck in your decision to spread the whole foods plant based diet, it sounds like it is really all about main stream medicine.

          • Michael Gaines

            Wells it’s not just 1 study there are hundreds if not 1000’s of studies at this point in time.

            The science is.clear here.

            My Cardiologist is 130lb soaking wet has been eating this way for 15.years. He sees more clogged arteries from omnivore diets rich in.carbohydrates than you can shake a.stick at…

            I get great nutrition by the way. You’re assuming I dont, but do. I eat spinach, kale, turnip greens, broccoli, cabage, green leaf salads all in a high saturated fat oil..

            I have better energy than I’ve had in 15.years…too…

            McDougall is a nutjob recommending.sugar and rice to cure diabetes….

            The verdict is in starchy carbs cause insulin resistance problems. Ketogenic at least for me and many others is a blessing… my after dinner glucose was.102. Before it would have been.200 and 30 units of insulin to.get me back to.under 120.and.another injection after 2.hours to.correct for.continued rising.sugars…

            I love my food.green veggies but I like cooked in.bacon fat or olive oil….

            I’ve tried.every dieT in the book this is the only one that works for me…

          • Charzie

            You are reading “research” that is sponsored by those who want the results to speak in their favor! Please get the facts straight for your own health. Ketosis is the body’s emergency response to starvation, not a long term solution for health! Like I said, having a cocaine habit will make you lose weight and improve your numbers short term also! Dr Greger wrote a book on it! All these supposed studies skew the science (that I and many other’s have proven!) that a high carb LOW fat WFPB diet is the solution to health, . High fat high carb WILL cause issues, it is the ratio that makes all the difference. All these bogus studies use what they call “lowfat” diets for comparison, but if you read the details, they are usually around 30% fat or above, hardly low fat! Believe what you want, it’s your funeral, but FACTS and paid brainwashing have no relation. Your doctor is in the dark ages. Sorry. Why are you coming here to dispute what we have all already PROVEN to ourselves anyway? People here are well educated and are just going to chuckle at the notion that high fat and meat are beneficial in any way!

          • Starchy carbs cause insulin resistance problems? That’s why in cultures where people ate primarily starchy carbs, Type 2 Diabetes was rampant then? Sure junk carbs and junk foods are bad but there’s no evidence that where people ate mostly starchy carbs in minimally processed form – potatoes, maize, rice, sweet potatoes etc – there was excess T2D. In fact, it was rare if not unknown.

            However, It is accepted that standard mainstream “diets low in saturated fat and cholesterol are less effective in the obese and the most effective way for obese people to normalize their blood lipids is to lose weight”. (although most whole food plant based diets diet would be considered I think a very low fat diet by mainstream standards, rather than just low fat.)
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16256004
            However, for people who are willing to follow a diet strictly, even those who do have damaged metabolic/lipid systems, ketogenic diets are an inferior solution:
            “Calorie for calorie, reducing dietary fat results in more body fat loss than reducing dietary carbohydrate when men and women with obesity have their food intake strictly controlled,” said lead study author Kevin D. Hall, PhD, of the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, in a press release. “Ours is the first study to investigate whether the same degree of calorie reduction, either through restricting only fat or restricting only carbohydrate, leads to differing amounts of body fat loss in men and women with obesity.”
            http://www.dailyrx.com/weight-loss-efforts-might-be-more-successful-reduced-fat-calories-reduced-carbohydrates?
            https://endo.confex.com/endo/2015endo/webprogram/Paper20716.html

            The other concern about diets such as yours is the excess mortality with which they are associated.
            http://www.bmj.com/content/344/bmj.e4026
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2989112/
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23372809
            http://jaha.ahajournals.org/content/3/5/e001169.full

            I am not aware of any very long-term studies of human beings adopting the specifically high fat, low carb diet apparently recommended by many ketogenic diet gurus. Do you have any info? However, I see that a Brazilian team published a study in 2013 using a mice model for the diet which provides some clues as to the likely outcome for those people adopting such a diet. Its results make disturbing reading for anybody contemplating eating this way:
            “C57BL/6J mice were fed with a HF diet (60% kcal/fat) or control diets (15% kcal/fat) for 27 months. One-half of the mice on the HF diet developed obesity (diet-induced obese (DIO) mice), whereas the remaining mice were diet resistant (DR). At 8 months of age, both DIO and DR groups had increased hyperglycemic response during a glucose tolerance test, which was normalized in 16-month-old mice. At this latter time point, all groups presented similar performance in cognitive tests (Morris water maze and inhibitory avoidance). The survival curves of the HF and control diet groups started to diverge at 15 months of age and, after 27 months, the survival rate of mice in the DIO and DR groups was 40%, whereas in the control diet group it was 75%.”
            Source:
            High saturated fat and low carbohydrate diet decreases lifespan independent of body weight in mice
            Longev Healthspan. 2013; 2: 10.
            Published online Jun 3, 2013. doi: 10.1186/2046-2395-2-10

          • kylemeister

            Speaking of clogged arteries, I’m reminded of this kind of thing.
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4338379/

            Here’s an example of a journal article title I’ve never seen:
            “Low-Carbohydrate, High-Saturated-Fat Diet Reversed Angina without Medications or Procedures”

          • Michael Gaines

            And then there’s same group reporting this.
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23680948

            Dietary Fat does not cause cardiovascular disease.

          • 2tsaybow

            The science is clear. You may lose weight on a ketogenic diet, but it is not a good diet for long term survival. It has many drawbacks. One of which is sudden cardiac death.

            It seems that you work with medical professionals that come in real extremes; from a 400 pound dietitian who eats something very fattening (Krispy Kreme?) to a 130 pound cardiologist who lives on a ketogenic diet. What is your skinny cardiologist’s name? I would be interested in knowing who he/she is.

            As for Dr. McDougall, what you are saying about him is a lie. It is not true that Dr. McDougall is recommending sugar and rice to cure diabetes. He has a very good program and more importantly Dr. McDougall recommends a Whole Food Plant Based diet. The other doctors who recommend this diet quite numerous.*

            Can you name a few of the thousands of studies showing that a ketogenic diet is healthy and superior? Since it’s long term use is not even recommended by the few doctors that say it can work for losing weight you may find it difficult to come up with such studies, beyond the one that you’ve identified here. Wasn’t the nutritional egg council (what an oxymoron!) one of the sponsors of the study you cited?

            I am glad you are eating your veggies, but fruit is good too. So are whole grains, nuts, and legumes.

            Try a whole food plant based diet. It works, and it is sustainable. You can eat all you want as long as it is not processed garbage. This site is a great resource as is ForksoverKives.com and PCRM.org.

            *A good place to find the list of professionals who recommend the WFPB diet can be found in the contributor area of forksoverknives.com

            Take care and my best to you!

    • Charzie

      Really, tell that to my glucose readings after a higher fat meal! How is it then that cutting fat to below 10% got rid of my diabetes, 150 lbs and other health issues without reducing healthy carbs?

      • Michael Gaines

        Sure I’ll tell you.

        You greatly reduced caloric intake to lose 150lb.

        There are many ways to lose weight & lower gluclose.
        1. Fasting ( very hard for most)
        2. Intermittent fasting ( still hard & takes regular discipline)
        3. Caloric restriction ( still hard, but easier than fasting)
        4. Eating foods lower in caloric density but high in nutrition ( easier because you do eat, but not highly satisfying for most people. If it were we would all be vegetarians. )
        5. Carbohydrate restriction with higher amounts of protein and fats ( very easy and greatly satisfying, still get plenty of nutrients in green leafy veggies smothered in fatty dressings.)

        Sugar and or carbohydrates are always going to raise blood sugars and your pancreas is always going to secrete insulin to lower glucose. If you’re already insulin resistant, you always have too much insulin always flowing in your body. That excess insulin causes a person to store anything they put in their mouths as fat on their bodies.

        If you restrict calories you also restrict sugars but not necessarily to a large extent. You also lower the insulin response and thus you can indeed lose weight improve sugars via vegetarian and other calorie lowering methods over long periods of time provided you don’t mind spending lots of time getting there.
        yes it works too… but most people won’t stick to it, and will unfortunately eat too many breads and grains which are self defeating to diabetics.

        High fat does not spike sugar levels or insulin. Test it yourself. Check your sugar level right now. Eat 1tbl.of butter, olive oil whatever. You sugar level will not rise from the oils Or fat. Eat a slice of turkey or fish you will see your sugars still don’t rise. Eat a piece of bread and watch your sugars hit the roof. Eat beans it hits the roof, eat a potato it hits the roof.

        I’ve been injecting insulin 5 to 6 times a day for two years. I have over 3000 meter reading and food logs to show this relationship is not a fabrication. Carbohydrates raise blood sugar.

        Using insulin eating carbs alwas created a bad high sugar issue for me.

        Dietary fat actually lowers blood sugar levels in the body. I’m eating 70% fat 25% protein & 5%carbs (green leafy) & my blood sugars are fantastic. My diabetes is reversing, I’ve not needed any insulin in 6 weeks now… I’m losing weight too… I certainly don’t need to lose 150lbs, but I do need to lose 50.

        if you’re really fat you don’t need to actually ear anything at all. Your body will sustain you quite well when it has 200lb of excess fat on it. The longest recorded fast was by a man that was over 500 lb and tracked in a clinical environment. He went 383 days without any food and lost over 276lb in that period. All clincal test showed him only getting healthier each day he fasted. His body fat was full of nutritious energy to sustain him. Thst man 5 years later remains under 190lbs…

        So there are many ways to lose weight and control blood sugar. The fastest is to indeed fast.

        But saturated fats were demonized 50 years ago in a fraudulent study that promoted fat free foods and that direction only made us fatter and sicker. Without fats we would die quickly…
        https://news.osu.edu/news/2014/11/21/study-doubling-saturated-fat-in-the-diet-does-not-increase-saturated-fat-in-blood/

        • kylemeister

          Ah, I guess this is the Ancel Keys calumny yet again.

    • guest

      Mixhael: This is what is in (toward the end) your second citation:

      This work was supported by the Dairy Research Institute, the National Cattlemen’s Beef Associationand the Egg Nutrition Center.

  • Misterimpatient

    As a community, we are not experienced in dealing with addiction and, let there be no doubt on this point, we are talking here about a serious addiction. T2D is the result of an addiction to (saturated) fat, salt and sugar. Moderation seldom works with addicts. Sadly, neither do lectures.

  • I’d like to hear Dr Dom D’ Agustino respond to this research. He is at the forefront of the research and works in Tampa. Doing a study for the military divers and ketosis. I’m sure saturated fat is high in his personal diet too!

  • Richard Reed

    This discussion began as an explanation about the harmful effects of certain fats. It has evolved to include a general discussion about carbs. Just as there are different fats that have varying degrees of effect on the pancreas and insulin, so there is a huge difference in the effects of various carbohydrates. The body requires a given caloric intake for maintenance combined with calories needed to support exertion. Those calories can come from sources rich in other nutrients or in refined forms from which other nutrients have been removed. They can also be divided into three types: carbohydrates, fats, and proteins. A proper balance of the three is important, but so is the question of whether they are isolates or included in the natural foods as they were grown. Someone mentioned pasta. As generally consumed it consists of a mix of isolated starches and proteins. Whole grain pasta will also include the elements in the grain germ and the exterior tinted layers.

    If our caloric intake is primarily refined substances then other nutrients will have to be supplied by pharmaceutics, an expensive and inefficient delivery system. For years I have chosen to use Ezekiel 4:9 bread because it contains only a variety of sprouted whole grains, with no flour included. It has both a low glycemic index and load. Other dietary choices can be made to guarantee your micro-nutrients will come from natural and non-controlling sources.

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Great points. Love sprouted breads! Pumpernickel and sourdough may be better for diabetics due to their lower glycemic index. Corn and whole wheat tortillas perhaps even better. Pasta, interestingly, has a low glycemic index. Here is a great list of foods with their glycemic index scores, if interested. Thanks for your comments.

  • Was the saturated fat tested animal fat? I ask because coconut oil contains saturated fat and these fate appear to work differently in the body than animal saturated fat.

    • guest

      How much of the plant version of saturated fat do you eat per day? (percentage of total calories is your fat intake, and saturated fat intake?) And do you mix these saturated fats
      with fruit or carbs at the same meal? Thank you.

      • The last time I calculated my fat intake it was 10% of my diet. Most of the saturated fat i used to consume was in the form of coconut oil and I use to drink 2 tablespoons a day without any adverse effects. I have very low and healthy LDL and triglycerides levels (I eat a whole food plant-based diet). I try not to mis fat and fruits together though sometimes there is overlap. I find not mixing fats and most fruits together keeps me from having any digestive or gas issues. i do mix fat with apples though without any issues.

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Please see my comment below, as I address the difference between saturated fat from coconut oil and animal saturated fats.

      • I can’t locate your comment. Could you copy & paste it in reply to my comment?

        • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

          Weird it works for me when I click the link. Forgive the delay. Here is what the comment said.

          Dr. Greger points out the differences in this video. From the transcript “Unlike saturated animal fats, coconut oil doesn’t cause that spike inflammation immediately after consumption of animal foods, which makes sense because as you’ll remember it may be the dead bacterial endotoxins in animal products ferried into the body by saturated fat that are to blame.” Make sure to check out the Doctor’s Note under the video and the video on “Dead Meat Bacteria Endotoxemia”

          • Yeah I understand the differences and wanted to bring up a conversation about the differences. I know animal saturated fat is the issue, but when the distinction isn’t made between animal saturated fat and plant saturated fat, all saturated fat gets labeled as bed. The same thing happened with the high fructose corn syrup. Fructose in general became labeled as bad and many people stopped consuming fruits. We have to become more specific when using these similar terms.

            Thanks for your response.

  • mkjcollins

    I listened to this video with great interest and it reminded me of something I’ve been grappling with lately: how much fat should I be consuming? I’ve had a tough time finding specific recommendations. I understand that the message of the video is that animal fats are the danger, but I’m struggling with determining how much plant based fat I should be consuming. I’ve always believed that healthy fats are an important part of the diet. I’m female, currently on a calorie reduced diet (I’m in the normal weight range for my height but I’d like to lose about ten pounds). I recently started logging macros and I was very surprised to learn that my average fat intake is around 30-35% (or 40-50 grams, on a 1200 calorie budget). That seems like a lot but, if it is, what should it be? I’m having a really hard time finding that answer. I’ve been vegan for about 8 years and was vegetarian for about 8 years before that. I’d describe my diet as predominantly whole foods and 100% plant based. Typical examples of where I’m getting the fat in my diet are: chia seeds, hemp hearts, nuts, nut butters, coffee creamer, tofu, the odd square of chocolate and the occasional serving of coconut milk yogurt, as well as a daily DHA+EPA supplement and whatever trace amounts of fat to be found in other foods. I never load up on any of these foods but it adds up quickly. As a point of interest, whenever I have my fasting blood glucose measured, it is always on the low side (4.2mmol, last time), or at least that’s how my physician interprets it. Beyond that, she’s never concerned. I’m not sure if that’s significant or not. Any guidance regarding the amount of fat I should be aiming for would be greatly appreciated, or if anyone knows of an appropriate reference. Thank you—I’m very grateful for this amazing resource.

    • kylemeister

      Well, 10% is sometimes given, e.g. by T. Colin Campbell in his book “Whole.” This paper by John McDougall et al. mentions 10% or lower.
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4209065/

      • mkjcollins

        Thanks for your response and for the reference. I’ll admit that 10% seems very low. With my current calorie budget (the limit of which makes this more challenging). I’d nearly hit 10% after one serving of tofu :) I’ll give the article a read.

      • Michael Gaines

        FAT does not cause cardiovascular disease.
        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23680948

        Yet your liver creates a fatty acid that does in the presence of excess carbohydrate.
        https://news.osu.edu/news/2014/11/21/study-doubling-saturated-fat-in-the-diet-does-not-increase-saturated-fat-in-blood/

        • 2tsaybow

          As you have been told by several people, the diet you have chosen, one that causes ketosis, is dangerous and you should reconsider your dietary choices. If you do not, that is your choice. I would emphasize that you should watch the videos on this site and read Dr. Greger’s book to better inform yourself.

          You are confusing people by coming to this site and providing answers that are wrong. Please inform yourself and be respectful. This is a site provided by a doctor for people looking for scientific answers. Do not presume that you are in a position to correct Dr. Greger’s work.

          Please watch these videos before you answer questions that people are asking on this subject.

          Here is a video on how fat feeds heart disease.
          Low Carb diets found to feed heart disease: http://nutritionfacts.org/2015/05/19/low-carb-diets-and-coronary-blood-flow/

          Here are three videos that Dr. Greger has done on the subject of Diabetes and Fat:
          Lipotoxicity-how-saturated-fat-raises-blood-sugar: http://nutritionfacts.org/video/lipotoxicity-how-saturated-fat-raises-blood-sugar/
          The-spillover-effect-links-obesity-to-diabetes: http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-spillover-effect-links-obesity-to-diabetes/
          Lipotoxicity how saturated fat raises blood sugar: http://nutritionfacts.org/video/lipotoxicity-how-saturated-fat-raises-blood-sugar/

          Thanks for your efforts, but please watch before you start telling people you know better than a specialist (many specialists) on this subject.

          • Michael Gaines

            As I have stated and repeatedly shown there is no SCIENTIFIC data that proves a ketogenic diet harms the body. This is vegan hysteria…

            I will watch the videos and I’ve even seen other videos that make a claim low fat diets cure CVD. You do know that your diets has its skeptics in science too right? You do know that plant based diets rich in starchy carbohydrates aren’t necessarily healthy too… Right?

            Oh so your members are only interested in wfpb indoctrination information. You wish to be blind to what true science is discovering related to the benefits of high fat; moderation of protein & restriction of excess carbohydrate… I get it– you want to invade high fat sites and try to scare people to death with claims of heart disease and cancer etc…

            Well you can’t scare me off with insult, or fear. I’m simply sharing what is working for me and I’m saying I tried a plant based approach with. Limited success and it was extremely hard to sustain. I never got off insulin injections either because your whole food approach allowed grains and starches which 100% of the time spiked sugar levels and kept insulin flowing ever consistently.

            Ketosis is not, I REPEAT NOT DANGEROUS AT ALL. IT’S NOT KETOACIDOUS WHICH IS DANGEROUS AND THIS PROVES HOW LITTLE YOU REALLY KNOW OUTSIDE YOUR INDOCTRINATION URL LINKS.

            You should watch a video on how Sugar causes inflammatory disease and nobody in science is arguing over that. Cancer loves two thing especially ; a blood supply & SUGAR.

            I DON’T need halfwit advise from a Condecening vegan snob. I’ll share what I want just as you do whereever you roam. Don’t bother telling me you are respectful not to share your opinions on Atkins sites as it’s clear you take activism seriously with your halfwit attempt to scold me here. I’m well aware of vegan claims, I’m well aware of low carbohydrate claims and I’m an expert on my diabetes and the benefits of my approach for my body than you or any medical doctor can provide.

            You just don’t like the fact science has finally woken up and realized FAT is not the villan. Excess sugar and carbohydrates are…

            I don’t owe you my cardiologists name. It’s clear this curiosity is more to help you try to defame and slander him in public forums. He has been low carb for over 10 years and is about 60 years old. He install stints all say long in people that eat to much carbohydrates & sugars. He has been doing this work likely longer than you are old. He doesn’t see high fat diet people, they don’t get CVD if they are restricting carbohydrates… study after study backs him up. An omnivore diets isn’t necessarily high fat, it’s high fat, high protein & normally high carbohydrate all in one. If ominivores dropped carbs to 5% of their diet they would be much healthier…

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      It is hard to say exactly how much fat someone needs. The Institute of Medicine recommends anywhere from 20-35% of total calories from fat. I think the low end is preferred for most folks. ​Here is a great video by Dr. Greger that explains the research between nut intake and body weight. Make sure to checkout the bottom of the video’s “Doctors Note” to see more links and info. Lastly, a follow-up to that video is solving the mystery of the missing calories, which may also help.​ Lastly, here is Dr. Greger’s Optimal Nutrition Recommendations, which mention DHA and EPA.

      • mkjcollins

        Thank you so much for your reply and for all the references. My gut was telling me to aim for 20-25%. The challenge is stemming largely from the 1200 calorie budget, within which, a few grams of fat here and there add up quickly. If I consumed the exact same foods on a 1800 calorie budget, those same grams suddenly represent a smaller percentage of the whole. Really I was just very surprised to discover that my average fat intake represented such a large percentage. If you’d have asked me to guess what it was before I measured it, I’d have said under 20%. Let me clarify that I don’t aim to specifically ADD fat to my diet (other than the DHA+EPA supplement (which I will read about as per your advice), it just happens to be part of the meals I’ve chosen. I just like a little chia or hemp hearts in my oatmeal and a sprinkling of almonds on my cereal—and it adds up fast. As long as I’m on 1200 calories, I’ll have to cut those additions out in order to get closer to 20%. Thanks again for your response. I’m off to read :)

        • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

          You are certainly right that the fat adds up fast! It’s fine to be on the low end, and many studies I have helped conduct used an even lower fat percentage (maybe even 10-20%). For weight loss, a lower fat diet significantly helped our study participants drop body weight and improve cholesterol and blood sugar markers. Let me know if you want even more reading ;-)

          I would be cautious of super low-calorie diets. A few videos that touch on calorie restriction and can be found here and here.

          • mkjcollins

            Thank you so much for all the information and references. I’m blown away by the generosity of spirit here. I watched each video that you suggested and then went down the rabbit hole and watched about 100 other related videos :) Fascinating and infinitely helpful. I will gladly refer to any additional material you think might also be helpful, thank you.

          • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

            Well that certainly made my day :-) Thanks for letting me know they helped! Not many people I respond to give much follow-up (which is totally fine), but I never really know if my responses help. Here are a few studies I helped conduct on folks trying to lose weight, drop cholesterol points, or lower blood sugar. A multicenter randomized controlled trial of a plant-based nutrition program to reduce body weight and cardiovascular risk in the corporate setting: the GEICO study. From Dr. Barnard’s research, study participants received either a low-fat vegan diet or a typical diet for diabetes and found significant changes in weight loss and insulin levels. Dr. Greger presents the study in this video. I only mention these studies because portion control or calorie restriction was never monitored in the study. Meaning we allowed every participant to eat as much food as they wanted so long as they followed the study’s diet guidelines. I have another study on migraines and a review on cancer if you get bored. Just let me know! Keep watching the videos. Lastly, if you haven’t yet, sign-up to receive daily blogs and videos!

            Thanks so much!
            Joseph

          • mkjcollins

            Thank you, Joseph! Apologies for the late reply—I somehow missed your latest response. This is all very helpful and I’ve looked over everything. In fact, I’ve spent the last several weeks reading nonstop. I recently had bloodwork done which revealed some evidence of mild insulin resistance (64 pmol/L…fasting glucose was 5.0), and also worrying signs of hypothyroid (specifically low T3, for now—I wondered if that might be related to the dieting, but there’s a family history of hypothyroid and I have nearly all the classic symptoms). I know that hypothyroid slows down glucose metabolism and I’m thinking it may be directly related to the elevated insulin. Both issues probably explain the recent proliferation of belly fat—it’s not major, but it’s there and worrying (my BMI is 24.1) and has proven very stubborn to lose, indeed. The good news is that my cholesterol seems alright (3.95 mmol/L) and triglycerides too (0.72 mmol/L), so I’m hoping that I’m doing alright in the fat consumption department. My immediate goal is to address the increased insulin by losing as much of those extra pounds as I can by continuing with physical activity and paying closer attention to glycemic load (get stricter about reducing and eliminating simple carbohydrates) and continuing to include only whole foods fats (nuts, seeds, avocado). Now back to my stack of books :) Thank you again for your input—I thought you might find the test results interesting so I thought I’d share :)

          • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

            You may consider taking an iodine supplement. Please discuss that option with your doctor. One more piece of reading for you on iodine supplementation/a>. ;-) I am so glad you are feeling better! Keep up the good work!

          • mkjcollins

            Thank you! I will definitely ask!

    • Jeewanu

      If you eat WFPB you don’t need to “eat enough fat”. You get the right proportions of nutrients. If you want more omega3 grind flaxseed into meals where compatible.

      • mkjcollins

        Hi Jeewanu, thanks for replying. I just wanted to clarify that I didn’t set out to deliberately add fat to my diet. My dilemma is that, based on my natural whole foods choices, fat seems to represent too high of a ratio (even though I was largely making what I’d consider healthy choices, i.e. seeds, nuts in small amounts). Though I seem to be in the upper range of what is conventionally considered normal for fat intake, the general consensus here points to me needing to consciously aim to cut back. Thanks again for your input.

    • There’s an old (1998) article on very low fat diets which I think is still broadly representative of current knowledge
      http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/98/9/935.full

      More recently, the 2003 WHO/FAO expert consultation recommended a minimum of 15% fat
      http://www.who.int/dietphysicalactivity/publications/trs916/download/en/

      However, the traditional Okinawan diet – famous for producing long life and good health – has been reported as including only 6% total fat (by calories).
      http://www.okicent.org/docs/anyas_cr_diet_2007_1114_434s.pdf

      I would personally suggest that you reconsider your use of coffee creamers – many if not most of them contain hydrogenated fats. And you may want to consider making sure that all your coffee is made using paper filters.
      http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/coffee/

      • mkjcollins

        Thanks so much for taking the time to reply, Tom, and for all the references. I will check them out. It’s funny you mention the coffee creamer: I usually have one coffee in the morning and sometimes have an additional one later in the day. At about 4.5 grams of fat (for the amount I would use), with 1 of those grams being saturated, the second coffee (with the creamer) would be first on my list to cut back on—if for no other reason than I’d rather have some nuts. Alternatively, I sometimes make (or purchase) cappuccino, which uses either foamed up soy milk or almond milk—perhaps that’s a better way to go (I’m using more of the milk than I would creamer, but it probably still works out to less bad fat). I do use unbleached paper filters when I make drip coffee. Thanks again—all input is much appreciated.

  • Andy B
    • Andy B

      I don’t know never heard of it

      • Andy B

        Neither have I, but research shows alloxan, formed when whole wheat is bleached, kills beta cells in the pancreas.

        • Andy B

          Wow I’ve never heard of such a thing, but surely the ‘experts’ at nutritionfacts.org will advise you about this!

          • Andy B

            Yeah i thought that too, still waiting for a reply.

          • Andy B

            So you’re saying white bread causes diabetes?

  • Dr.Reuven Rosenberg

    “THE” cause or “A” cause? Sugar???

    • 2tsaybow

      It’s a combination of factors, including insulin resistance. Is sugar “A” cause? Probably, but it’s also known that a diet high in saturated fats causes insulin resistance. Sure you can help bring it on with many crappy things, particularly since those food items have the double whammy of being made of sugar, fat, and highly processed food items. (Yum!) The point would be moot if you were eating a Whole Food Plant Based diet, wouldn’t it?

      So, you’re involved in integrative medicine, but I don’t see that you’ve been here much. Have you looked at the other medical professionals recommending diet and lifestyle medicine? It seems such a perfect fit for what you do. There are a lot of people and consultants at forksoverknives.com. Are you working with them?

    • Wade Patton

      Fat, the cause. Disrupted sugar metabolism the result. This is why “treating” diabetes by adjusting the blood sugar aspect can now be seen as band-aid approach. It may keep one alive longer, but in no way is curative of the problem.

  • Massimo

    Dr. Greger,
    once again the same question, sorry, but I am not getting the answers.
    You say saturated fats but then the graphs show palmitate (ester of the palmitic acid, 16:0). What about lauric (12:0) and myristic (14:0)? These are the three considered to be atherogenic (according to the 2010 FAO/OMS expert panel report). Are all the three also involved in the aetiology of diabetes or it is just palmitic?

    • Wade Patton

      I think his point is (and overall theme) that satfat from animal products is bad, satfat in whole plant food is not bad. That reductionism may lead to understanding but is not a good way to get proper foods/nutrition into our bodies, and that nothing naturally happens in isolation-that we must learn to understand nutritional concepts/processes/results in WHOLE terms not reduced to single, unnatural variables. If that thinking is right, then maybe the doctor sees no value in determining which particular saturated fatty acid is “the monster”.

      • Massimo

        That would not make much sense. Once digested, a fatty acid is a fatty acid, does not matter which is the source. The richest source of palmitic acid is palm oil. The richest sources of saturated fats are palm kernel and coconut oil, which are where are especially rich in lauric acid. The latter is even worse than palmitic acid in terms of raising blood cholesterol levels. I understand that the connexion between SFA and diabetes is a relatively recent discover: it is of paramount importance to know whether the same conclusions valid for the relation with cardiovascular diseases hold also for diabetes. The reason is that animal right activists prone the use vegetable fats instead of animal fats also on the basis of health arguments, but their replacement is often rich in tropical oils (palm, palm kernel, coconut), which is a perfect contradiction with respect to the “better for the animals, better for your health” message they want to share.

        • 2tsaybow

          I don’t think that he’s not a great fan of coconut oil because it is a saturated fat.

          Here is an article on the subject: http://nutritionfacts.org/2013/07/30/is-coconut-oil-good-for-you/

          Here is a video on the subject: http://nutritionfacts.org/video/is-coconut-oil-good-for-you/

          Hope this helps!

          • Massimo

            Thanks, I had missed the second video, which confirms what I have saying for years on the basis of the literature I could collect so far (and yes, the effect on cholesterol does come from lauric acid; you read it here: http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/nutrientrequirements/fatsandfattyacids_humannutrition/en/). I am a long term vegan now living in one of the most vegan unfriendly country in the world, France, where the information is completely in the hands of the agribusiness. The few people oriented plant based are essentially motivated by animal right arguments but they face criticism by the medical institutions, according to which you cannot even survive without meat and diaries (yes yes, France is still in the Middle Age of nutrition). These activists try desperately to give some counter-argument but in most cases they have no scientific background and go ahead with arguments often contradictory, like “replace butter with coconut oil”. When I try to alert them they are doing a bad service, they simply do not understand.

        • Wade Patton

          Have you seen the videos that show why fats (name one) from animal sources are so bad? It has more to do with all the other stuff that comes along for the ride. Please begin to consider food as a PACKAGE DEAL. We can’t conveniently (yet) carve out the “good” or acceptable nutrients from animal sources without bringing along the _bad and inflammatory and contaminated_.

          Reductionism just doesn’t work so well when one must ALWAYS consider the bigger picture.

          • Massimo

            I never said animal fats could be good. I say that vegetable fats are not necessarily good, as animal right activists believe. Tropical oils are a perfect counter-example.

          • It is interesting that some scientists ascribe the significant differences in mortality rates between Hong Kong and Singapore to the heavy use of tropical oils in the latter. The full article is behind a paywall but it concludes:
            “There are striking differences in all-cause and cardiovascular mortality between Hong Kong and Singapore. These differences can be most reasonably and plausibly explained by their differences in dietary habits, for example, a higher consumption of coconut and palm oil, mainly containing saturated fat, in Singapore.”
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11855581

          • Massimo

            Thanks Tom, I do have access to the full article. Most interesting.

          • Wade Patton

            As a WFPB eater, I take my fats where nature puts them-99.7% of the time.

    • Kate Scott

      Lauric acid provokes inflammation via TLR4 (Toll-like-receptor) signalling; lipid-induced insulin resistance is mediated in
      part by TLR4 based inflammation. So I would imagine that coconut oil is detrimental for diabetes as it is for other cardiometabolic outcomes. I’d provide you the references but I can’t figure out how to insert hyperlinks into this webpage.

      • Massimo

        Thanks, that’s most useful. Our University does not have access to the journal where the review has been published, I have just mailed the author asking for a reprint, I hope he will send it. There is so much disinformation “out there” about lauric acid, used to promote coconut oil as miracle remedy; we need solid scientific arguments to fight all that business.

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Hey Massimo. Not a problem whatsoever these are great questions. I see some good responses, too. When I watch the video it seems SFAs are lumped together in most all of the studies reported on, so I’d expect them all to boost diabetes risk. The study you may want to explore is here, as you are right it says palmitate in the graph. Dr. Greger lists every study under “sources cited” and that is a great way to pull the research and find out exactly what was tested. This paper is free. Let me know if you ever cannot find a study and I’ll try to pull it for you. Thanks for your note and contributions to the website!

      • Massimo

        Thanks Joseph, I got the article. One doubt that one may have is about the endogenous production of palmitate. Let me explain. A diet rich in palmitic acid (but also lauric and myristic) is detrimental, no doubt about that. However, an excessive amount of carbohydrates may not be the panacea, because our body stocks only limited amounts of carbs as such (glycogen), the rest is converted to fats, and in particular… palmitate! Sure, a calorie-balanced diet provides the right amount and not much fat is produced as the result of the conversion of carbs. Yet, when I read recommendations of extra-low fat diets (Esselstyn school) I am naturally led to think about this carbs-to-palmitate conversion, which finally results in an increase in the endogenous production of SFA. I believe that a moderate consumption of high quality fats, richer in n-3 or plant origin, could represent a more balanced choice. The 5% limit which seems the upper boundary of Esselstyn school would eliminate most pulses and nuts and I cannot buy that,

        • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

          I agree that nuts and pulses are healthful, especially for diabetics. I am not sure about “carbs turning into palmitate” do you have any studies about this?

          • Massimo

            Well, I think that a biochemistry textbook would be enough. The transformation of excess carbs to palimitic acid is mentioned also in wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmitic_acid) Yes, sure, I do not take all what is on wikipedia for true, but this mechanism is well known – I remember it from my biochemistry basic class (a while ago, sure), although I do not have a biochemistry text at hand right now.

  • nodelord

    I keep seeing both sides of the meat argument sighting what they want see. http://examine.com/blog/high-protein-diets-linked-to-cancer-should-you-be-concerned/
    PBWF bodybuilding has a long way to go. Anyone that I have herd of that is closely successful is pounding back the PB protein supplements, not exactly WFs.

    • 2tsaybow

      How about RichRoll.com?

      • Yeah… thanks.. endurance not quite the same as bodybuilding.

  • Zuppkko

    What about type 1? Is the cause the same but the damage happens before the birth?

    • Thea

      Zuppkko: I don’t know if we have a definitive answer on this question or not. However, according to Dr. McDougall, there is some good evidence linking (at least in some percentage of cases?) dairy to type 1. If I remember correctly, it seems as though type 1 may be an auto-immune problem where the body attacks it’s pancreas cells in a confused response trying to deal with foreign dairy proteins from non-humans (ie, breast milk from cows not humans – ie, I’m not saying that there is any link between breast milk from a vegan human and type 1 in a baby). I believe that Dr. McDougall has an article about this some place, but I haven’t seen it myself. I know I have heard him reference the topic in a speech. Hope that helps.

  • tinydcr

    I can’t find any studies that look at type 2 diabetes and plant saturated fats such as coconut. Avoid? Are they okay? Anybody have a citation for me?

    • Wade Patton

      Congratulations!

      You win the prize for the 100th question about the saturated fats in coconut oil.

      Welcome and please scroll down. Sorry we met on such terms. 8-P

  • Do you Know About FSSAI License – Preferment of food safety, including by practicing to handle food safely, to increase the awareness level of food safety in manufacturer. Qsindia is a leading service provider for FSSAI License & Registration, Food safety License & Product approval.

  • Harriet Sugar Miller

    Could somebody more fully explain the mechanism behind this statement? “The uptake of bad cholesterol, LDL, can cause beta cell death as a result of free radical formation.”

  • Victor Barangan,MD

    To give advise or to treat your relatives who still believe their traditional doctors is really a big challenge. Perhaps in addition to this wonderful and informative videoshow, get hold of these books entitled- The Insulin Resistance Diet by Cheryle Hart, MD and The Leptin connection by Ron Rosedale, MD. Better still, show it to their doctors

    • guest

      I wouldn’t listen to Rosedale. He’s another trendy low-carb diet promoter hawking a fad diet book like the rest.

  • Robert F.

    I wonder if this pertains to all saturated fats, not just those in animal products, such as the sat. fats in cacao powder, or in nuts and seeds, or other plant sources; do these fats also contribute to the start/continuation to diabetes?

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Good thoughts! Please see my comment below, as I address the difference between saturated fat from coconut oil and animal saturated fats.

  • rfeld993

    I am curious as to if this information about saturated fats applies only to animal saturated fats. What about plant based saturated fats such as those in cacao powder, or in nuts, seeds, and other plant sources (like raw plant fats)? Do these saturated fats contribute to the cause/continuation of diabetes as well?

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Please see my comment below, as I address the difference between saturated fat from coconut oil and animal saturated fats. Here is a great video by Dr. Greger that explains the research between nut intake and body weight. Make sure to checkout the bottom of the video’s “Doctors Note” to see more links and info. Lastly, a follow-up to that video is solving the mystery of the missing calories, which may also help.​ The saturated fat in nuts and seeds does not seem to increase LDL cholesterol.

  • Rob

    I’m confused. I recently watched a Ted Talk on the subject (“Reversing Type 2 diabetes starts with ignoring the guidelines | Sarah Hallberg | TEDxPurdueU” on YouTube
    https://youtu.be/da1vvigy5tQ) and the recommendation is to swap out carbs for fats to eliminate diabetes…. Who’s right?

    • Brux

      >> … swap out carbs for fats to eliminate diabetes

      Her basic premise is:

      Eat Carbs -> Glucose rises -> Insulin rises -> Fat storage & hunger (repeat)

      or if you have diabetes,

      Eat Carbs -> Glucose rises -> take medication -> eat more carbs -> insulin rises -> Fat storage & hunger (repeat)

      She says that “diabetes is a state of carbohydrate toxicity.”

      She does not mention of account for the success of the Kempner Rice Diet which is said to reverse diabetes as soon as one gets on it.

      She makes no distinction between carbs, as in complex carbs like potatoes, rice and pasta, and processed carbs like candies, cookies, breads.

      She also says we need ZERO carbs and that insulin resistance is the greatest risk factor for coronary artery disease – responsible for 42% or heart attacks.

      If you cut out carbs you do not produce insulin … which I think Dr. Gregor proved was wrong here with some graphs about how meat can spike your insulin level just as much as carbs?

      She also claims she can pull people off their insulin medication in days to weeks.

      Then she goes on to say “my patients eat fat, and a lot of it.” Fat is the only macronutrient that keeps blood sugar and insulin levels low. (but meanwhile what is going on in the rest of the body?)

      Her rules:
      1) If it says diet, light, low fat, or fat free, do not buy it or eat it.
      2) Eat real food. (something I think everyone agrees on)
      3) Eat when you’re hungry, do not eat when you are not (again, something that is obvious, but that we are trained not to do)
      4) Don’t eat anything you don’t like.
      4) No grains, potatoes or sugar.

      But then she goes on to talk about how she bakes herself, using non-grain based flours – coconut flour, flax, hazelnut, etc. She bakes using non-grain based flours … which somehow she is implying are not carbs? Or is she saying this is LOWER carb than grain-based flours? She also says she eats sautéed mushrooms … but the thing is that you cannot live on sauteed mushrooms, because they do not fill you up … unless perhaps you accompany then with tons of fat. ( what kinds of fat )

      Then she says that low-carb eating decreases inflammatory issues, which is the same thing every *&#(&#^*# says …. this really makes me mad. What is going on with all these internet doctors saying all this stuff that all contradicts each other, yet is all backed up by randomized scientific studies and trials. This is just more BS.

      Mainly, I just cannot believe that with our current scientific and experimental capabilities on this planet we cannot figure out what reality is viz-z-viz diet and disease? Most of the scientists and most of the information we have has been generated while we are all alive … it is exponential. So, what the f- is going on here?

    • Thea

      Rob: re: “Who’s right?” You will have to answer that question for yourself. However, I two thoughts for you that might help.

      1) To my knowledge, only the diets promoted by Dr. Barnard and others such as Brenda Davis have been shown in clinical, published trials to reverse type 2 diabetes. While proponents like the one you reference in your post claim to have success on an anecdotal level, I am not aware of any studies actually published in peer reviewed journals that support their claims. (Though fair warning: I haven’t looked at that TED talk you referenced. I’m just going by previous research I have done.)

      2) Part of the apparent contradiction may come in because each group has a different definition for what it means to “eliminate” or “reverse” diabetes. If it is true that type 2 diabetes is caused by saturated fat infiltrating the cells and thus making it impossible for the body to properly regulate insulin, then the high-fat (high-protein) diets proposed by Hallberg and others are simply managing the symptoms of T2 diabetes, not addressing the cause. So, is that really curing diabetes? In my book, no. Especially since we have so much good data showing how those diets cause long term health problems. (See for example videos on this site that talk about the Paleo diet. Or see the great videos on Plant Positive’s site.) So, even if one could argue that managing the disease is the same as eliminating it, I don’t consider anything to be a cure if it just causes me other serious problems (say a heart attack or stroke or …) down the road.

      Hope that helps.

  • Michael Gaines

    I believe all scientists agree to much saturated fats in blood serum is a bad thing. However, technology has caught up and determined that more important is the quality of fat in blood serum versus the type.

    LDL for example is often referred to as the bad cholesterol. This has always bothered me because if humans didn’t have LDL cholesterol they would surely die. It’s in other words essential to human life and hormone function.

    More important in new clinical studies is how much type A versus type B LDL flows within your blood stream. It’s also known as small & large particulate LDL. Small is bad, as it tends to stick to interior arterial wall lesions created via inflammatory blood vessel response. Large LDL is not considered harmful because it does not tend to stick to interior arterial lesions.

    A diet high in fat almost always creates more Highly preferred & beneficial HDL, and it almost always lowers the bad small particulate LDL, & slightly raises neutral large particulate LDL. A high fat diet therefore appear beneficial by the numbers even though over all cholesterol number may rise. It’s because the diet has created improvements to your benefit in the ratios involved in determine quality cholesterol versus quantity.

    Recent clinical testing showed that even a doubling of consumed dietary fat has no adverse cardiovascular response in humans. In fact the study proves blood serum improves.

    However, when sugars or carbohydrates were introduced the study showed a coorelation with a fatty acid created to enable the liver to store excess consumed energy into stored body fat.This fatty acid is created in the liver and only during the process of storing carbohydrates or sugars into fat. A direct coorelation exist with either raising or lowering carbohydrates with respect to the amount of fatty acid the liver created only in response to carbohydrates or sugars.

    Adding proteins In moderation did not cause the liver to manufacture this same fatty acid, nor did adding fat. Clearly the link to this fatty acid is a causation of over consuming carbohydrates for fuel and clearly in excess consumption.

    • Fruitrunner

      I thought Dr Greger addressed the myth of large/small LDL partical size already in this video?

      http://nutritionfacts.org/video/does-cholesterol-size-matter/

      From what was presented, LDL size makes no difference and is just another smoke and mirrors distraction to keep the dangerous low-carb delusion going. Seems to me the LDL size myth is just another excuse to eat an unhealthy high fat diet.

      • Michael Gaines

        Well your presentation is wrong. The majority of science is more concerned with the quality of cholesterol. LDL guess what–it’s essential to life. If you don’t have it your very sick or dead. Fat’s are essential to life, protein is essential to life only one thing left— is it essential to life– nope– that’s carbohydrates…

        While the total cholesterol number means little according to the new science, it is the size of your LDL and HDL cholesterol particles that matters. The notion that the LDLs are the bad cholesterol and that the HDLs are the good cholesterol is an outdated over-simplification, and often an inaccurate predictor of cardiovascular risk. (1) Yes, there are bad HDLs!

        Both LDLs and HDLs come in different sizes. Contrary to popular thought, there are some bad HDLs and some good LDLs. It is actually quite simple. The large fluffy cholesterol HDL and LDL particles are good, and the small, dense, hard bb shaped HDL and LDL particles are bad. (1)

        Fortunately, there are a handful of blood tests that will determine the size of your cholesterol particles. Ask your doctor for any of the following tests:

        VAP (Vertical Auto Profile)

        NMR Lipo-Profile Test

        Lipoprint Test

        Berkeley Lipid Particle Test

        LPP (Lipoprotein Particle Profile)

        Pattern A or Pattern B LDLs

        These new blood tests determine whether most of your LDL cholesterol particles are Pattern A or Pattern B. Pattern A indicates that most of your LDL particles are large, fluffy and beneficial, like they should be. These LDL-A particles are not damaged by oxidation, which is the process that causes arterial plaque. A Pattern B cholesterol profile indicates that most of your LDL particles are the small, dense, hard and damaging particles. The smaller and harder the particle, the more easily they can penetrate the arterial wall and cause inflammation. These are the real bad guys.

        Not All HDLs Are Created Equal

        Your cholesterol particle blood test will also tell you the size of your HDL particles. Remember, it is the HDLs that were considered to be the good cholesterols, but the National Institutes of Health revealed that simply raising HDL levels did nothing to protect against heart attacks, stroke or death. (1) It is not the overall HDL level that matters; it is their size that matters.

        HDL-2 particles are the large, fluffy, buoyant and beneficial particles that are resistant to the damage of oxidation. They support healthy arteries and reduce inflammation. The HDL-3 particles, while not completely understood, are the undesirable ones. They are believed to be atherogenic (promoting build-up of fatty plaque in the arteries) and inflammatory.

        Lp(a) Cholesterol is the Most Harmful

        The Lp(a) cholesterol particle, or the apolipoprotein(a), carries out arterial repair duties on damaged blood vessels. On one hand the Lp(a) support arterial health, but when more repairs are needed, they can accumulate and then oxidize and damage the arterial wall. It is the Lp(a) that is responsible for the build-up of arterial plaque and clot formation. (1) Lp(a) is considered the most dangerous particle and is a direct risk factor for heart disease. (1)

        Other Blood Tests that Screen For Cardiovascular Health:

        C-Reactive Protein (CRP) – an inflammatory marker and predictor of heart disease.

        Homocysteine – an inflammatory marker and direct risk factor for cardiovascular health.

        HbA1c – a 3-month average of blood sugar that measures glycation levels.

      • Michael Gaines

        And finally, I’ll end with this Harvard Study, not promoted by the EGG Industry (I think anytime you have to whack and industry versus the real science use to validate a study you’re losing the argument. You wouldn’t like it if someone rejected science clinical results supported by vegetarian sponsors now would you? Well some of you would surely).

        So here is a Harvard study, no meat or egg industry blah blah— just more science that backs up quality of cholesterol really does matter… I can pull hundreds of more independent studies, refer you to cardiologist that use these particulate studies in treating their patients etc…

        http://www.athero.org/commentaries/comm564.pdf

        • Michael Grain

          Now we have studies that measure the impact of low carb diets on arteries directly, and a review of all the best studies to date found that low-carb diets impair arterial function, as evidenced by a decrease in flow-mediated dilation, meaning low-carb diets effectively stiffen people’s arteries. And since that meta-analysis was published, a new study found the same thing: “A dietary pattern characterized by high protein and fat, but low carbohydrate was associated with poorer peripheral small artery function,” again measuring blood flow
          into people’s limbs. But peripheral circulation is not as important as
          the circulation in the coronary arteries that feed our heart.

          Dr. Richard Fleming, an accomplished nuclear cardiologist,
          enrolled 26 people into a comprehensive study of the effects of diet on
          cardiac function using the latest in nuclear imaging
          technology–so-called SPECT scans, enabling him to actually directly
          measure the blood flow within the coronary arteries.

          He
          then put them all on a healthy vegetarian diet, and a year later the
          scans were repeated. By that time, however, ten of the patients had
          jumped ship onto the low carb bandwagon. At first I bet
          he was disappointed, but surely soon realized he had an unparalleled
          research opportunity dropped into his lap. Here he had extensive imaging
          of ten people before and after following a low carb diet and 16 following a high carb
          diet. What would their hearts look like at the end of the year? We can
          talk about risk factors all we want, but compared to the veg group, did
          the coronary heart disease of the patients following the Atkins-like
          diets improve, worsen, or stay the same?

          Those sticking to the
          vegetarian diet showed a reversal of their heart disease as expected.
          Their partially clogged arteries literally got cleaned out. They had 20%
          less atherosclerotic plaque in their arteries at the end of the year
          than at the beginning. What happened to those who abandoned the
          treatment diet, and switched over to the low-carb
          diet? Their condition significantly worsened. 40% to 50% more artery
          clogging at the end of the year. In heart scans of the patients, as
          seen in my video, Low Carb Diets and Coronary Blood Flow, the yellow and particularly red areas represent blood flow
          through the coronary arteries to the heart muscle. The scan of one of
          the patients who went on a plant-based diet, shows how their arteries
          opened right up increasing the blood flow. Another person, however, started out with good flow, but after a year on a low-carb diet, they significantly clogged down their arterial blood flow.

          So this is the best science we have, demonstrating the threat of low-carb diets, not just measuring risk factors, but actual blood flow in people’s hearts on different diets. Of course the reason we care about cardiac blood flow,
          is we don’t want to die. Another meta-analysis was recently published
          that finally went ahead and measured the ultimate end-point, death, and low-carb diets were associated with a significantly higher risk of all-cause mortality, meaning living a significantly shorter lifespan.

          • Michael Gaines

            So wondering why did I post this?

            Well there is opposition to LCHF eating especially by staunch vegitarians in and outside the medical professions. The opposite holds true for the LFHC groups as there are opponents to their beliefs and views too.

            What’s most interesting to me is that these two groups haven’t figured out to reconcile and balance out their areas of agreement & disagreement because I believe the truth lies somewhere between the two with this term known as “BALANCE”

            Dr. Flemming’s study.I’m not completely sure was or is entirely relevant. The population and variance of patients are limited and arterial disease rarely progresses to any extent from dieting within a mere year of such a small population under study. I don’t have the details but I ran into some other posts where it was stated he was or has been under investigation for insurance fraud & that he himself is indeed a strongly biased and participating vegetarian with his own diet.

            Well Dr. Flemming… My cardiologist has been a Low Carbohydrate eater for over 15 years and has wonderful cardiovascular health. How do you recoNile this?

          • Michael Grains

            hundreds of metabolic ward experiments, which means you don’t just
            ask people to change their diets you essentially lock them in a room,
            for weeks if necessary, and have total control over their diet. You can
            then experimentally change their level of saturated fat however you want
            and see the corresponding change in their cholesterol levels. And the
            results are so consistent you can create an equation, the famous Hegsted
            Equation, where you can predict how much their cholesterol will go up
            based on how much saturated fat you give then. So if you want your LDL
            cholesterol to go up 50 points all you have to do is eat like 30% of
            your calories saturated fat. When you plug the numbers in, the change in
            cholesterol shoots right up as predicted. The experiments match the
            predictions. You can do it at home with one of those home cholesterol
            testing kits, eat a stick of butter every day and watch your cholesterol
            climb—it’s not rocket science. And look at this, this was 1965; we’ve
            known about this for 50 years that even if you keep calorie intake the
            same, increases in saturated fat intake are associated with highly
            significant increases in LDL bad cholesterol. Now your good cholesterol
            goes up a bit too, but that increase is smaller than the increase in
            bad, which would translate into increased heart disease risk.

            So
            if you feed vegetarians meat even just once a day, their cholesterol
            jumps nearly 20% within a month. To prevent heart disease we need a
            total cholesterol under 150, which you can see these vegetarians were,
            but then even just once a day with the meat and their cholesterol shot
            up 19%, but the good news is that within just 2 weeks of returning to
            their meat-free diet their cholesterol dropped back down into the safe
            range. Note that their HDL good cholesterol hardly moved at all, so
            their ratio went from low risk of heart attack to high risk in a matter
            of weeks with just one meat-containing meal a day. And indeed randomized
            clinical trials show that dietary saturated fat reduction doesn’t just
            appear to reduce cholesterol levels, but subsequent cardiovascular
            events like heart attacks.

            Randomized clinical trials, controlled
            interventional experiments, our most robust forms of evidence—no wonder
            there’s a scientific consensus to decrease saturated fat intake. This is
            going to be a toughie for Big Cheese and Chicken. You’ll note, though,
            that the Y-axis here is not cholesterol, but change in
            cholesterol. That’s because everyone’s set-point is different. Two
            people eating the same diet, the same amount of saturated fat, the same
            number of chicken nuggets a day can have very different cholesterol
            levels. One person can eat 10 chicken nuggets a day and have an LDL
            cholesterol of 90; another person eating 10 a day could start out with
            an LDL of 120. It depends on your genes. But while our genetics may be
            different, our biology is the same, meaning the rise and drop in
            cholesterol is the same for everyone. So if both folks cut out the
            nuggets, the 90 might drop to 85, whereas the 120 would drop to 115.
            Wherever we start, we can lower our cholesterol by eating less saturated
            fat, but if I just know your saturated fat intake—how many nuggets you
            eat, I can’t tell you what your starting cholesterol is. All I can say
            with certainty is that you eat less, your cholesterol will likely
            improve.

            But because of this extreme “interindividual variation,”
            this wide variability in baseline cholesterol levels for any given
            saturated fat intake, if you take a cross-section of the population, you
            can find no statistical correlation between saturated fat intake and
            cholesterol levels, because it’s not like everyone who eats a certain
            set amount of saturated fat is going to have over a certain cholesterol.
            So there’s like three ways you could study diet and cholesterol levels,
            controlled feeding experiments, free-living dietary change experiments,
            or cross-sectional observations of large populations. As we saw there
            is a clear and strong relationship between change in diet and change in
            serum cholesterol in the interventional designs, but because of that
            individual variability, in cross-sectional designs you can get zero
            correlation. In fact if you do the math that’s what you’d expect you’d
            get. In statistical parlance, one would say that a cross-sectional study
            doesn’t have the power for detecting such a relationship. Thus
            because of that variability, these kinds of observational studies would
            seem an inappropriate method to study this particular relationship. So
            since diet and serum cholesterol have a zero correlation
            cross-sectionally, an observational study of the relationship between
            diet and coronary heart disease incidence will suffer from the same
            difficulties. So again, if you do the math, observational studies would
            unavoidably show nearly no correlation between saturated fat and heart
            disease. These prospective studies can be valuable for other diseases,
            but the appropriate design demonstrating or refuting the role of diet
            and coronary heart disease is a dietary change experiment. And those
            dietary change experiments have been down, they implicate saturated fat,
            hence the lower saturated guidelines from basically every major medical
            authority. In fact if we lower saturated fat enough, we may be able to reverse
            heart disease, opening up arteries without drugs, without surgery. But
            wait a second. Let’s put our Big Cheese and Chicken hat back on.
            Observational studies would show no correlation, mathematically could
            show no correlation. We’ve known since 1979 that observational studies
            simply don’t have the power to show the relationship. Bingo!

            All
            we need now is a friendly researcher. How about Ronald M. Krauss? Funded
            by the National Dairy Council since 1989, also the National Cattleman’s
            Beef Association, as well as the Atkins Foundation—perfect. Then you
            just combine together all the observational studies that don’t have the
            power to provide significant evidence and what do you know, no
            significant evidence was found.

            This 2010 meta-analysis was
            basically just repackaged for 2014, using the same and similar studies.
            As the Chair of Harvard’s nutrition department put it, their conclusions
            regarding the type of fat being unimportant are seriously misleading
            and should be disregarded, going as far as suggesting the paper be
            retracted, even after the authors corrected a half dozen different
            errors.

            But it’s not like they falsified or fabricated data—they
            didn’t have to. They knew beforehand the limitations of observational
            studies, they knew they’d get the “right” result and so they published
            it, helping to “neutralize the negative impact of milk and meat fat by
            regulators and medical professionals.” And it’s working, brags the dairy
            industry, perceptions about saturated fat in the scientific community
            are changing. This is a welcome message to consumers, who may be tired
            of hearing what they shouldn’t eat. They don’t need to convince
            consumers, just confuse them. Confusion may easily be misused by the
            food industry to promote their interests.

            It’s like that infamous
            tobacco industry memo that read “doubt is our product.” “Doubt, is our
            product since it’s the best means of competing with the body of fact
            that exist in the mind of the general public.” They don’t have to
            convince the public that smoking is healthy to get people to keep
            consuming their products. They just need to establish a controversy.
            Some science says its bad, some say it’s not bad. Conflicting messages
            in nutrition cause people to become so frustrated and confused they may
            just throw their hands up in the air and eat whatever they want, which
            is exactly what saturated fat suppliers want, but at what cost to the
            public’s health?

          • Michael Gaines

            What funny here is:
            1. Fats are essential to life
            2. Cholestetol is essential to life
            3. LDL the so called bad cholesterol is essential to life
            4. The studies you refer to don’t clearly articulate how the qualities of cholesterol improve with increased fat consumption which they do greatly in hundreds of other clinical studies.
            5. LDL is considered neutral and essential but preferably as large particulate LDL. Small particulate LDL is not considered as neutral because due to its small size it can get caught in lesions in artetial.walls caused by sugars and high insulin levels throughout the circlatory sydtem.

            Yes, I’m aware of yet another study where it’s claimed there is no dicernable difference between LDL size; yet again that study was a comparison of low fat versus low carbohydrate diets in subjects not clearly identified as eating and adhering to strict low carbohydrate diets. Most likely lowered carbohydrates but no particular grams of carbohydrate consumed by subjects were shared.

            6. There is a preponderance of evidence that LCHF diets are cardiovascular neutral, low inflammation, low insulin, low blood sugars and improving both HDL and quality LDL large particulate cholesterols. Yes overall cholesterol may rise but that’s attributed to greater improvements in the quality of cholestetols.
            7. Carbohydrates are zero on the essential scale of macro nutrient health.
            8. Low carbohydrate green leafy nonstarchy vegetables are super beneficial to the body because they too provide great vitamin and mineral support to our bodies without spiking insulin, blood sugar or inflammatory response in our bodies. The only time whole foods break this rule in my opinion are when they cross into a high carbohydrate consumption boundary in a body that has carbohydrate intolerance.

          • Michael Grains

            Time magazine’s recent cover exhorting people to eat butter could be
            viewed as a desperate attempt to revive dwindling print sales, but they
            claimed to be reporting on real science, a systematic review and
            meta-analysis published in a prestigious journal that concluded that
            current evidence does not clearly support cardiovascular guidelines that
            encourage cutting down on saturated fat, like the kind found in meat
            and dairy products like butter.

            No wonder it got so much press,
            since reducing saturated fat intake is a major focus of most dietary
            recommendations worldwide aiming to prevent chronic diseases including
            coronary heart disease. So, to quote the Center for Science in the
            Public Interest, “What gives? Evidently, shaky science…and a mission
            by the global dairy industry to boost sales.”

            They interviewed an
            academic insider, who noted some researchers are intent on showing
            saturated fat does not cause heart disease. In 2008 the global dairy
            industry held a meeting where they decided that one of their main
            priorities was to “neutralize the negative impact of milkfat by
            regulators and medical professionals.” And when they want to do
            something, they get it done. So they set up a major, well-funded
            campaign to come up with proof that saturated fat does not cause heart
            disease. They assembled scientists who were sympathetic to the dairy
            industry, provided them with funding, encouraged them to put out
            statements on milkfat and heart disease, and arranged to have them speak
            at scientific meetings. And the scientific publications we’ve seen
            emerging since the Mexico meeting have done just what they set out to
            do.

            What’s the key barrier to increase worldwide demand for dairy?
            Yes, there’s global warming issues, other milks competing out there,
            but #1 on the list is the “Negative messages and intense pressure to
            reduce saturated fats by governments and non- governmental
            organizations.” In short, the negative messages are outweighing the
            positive, so indeed, their #1 priority is to neutralize the negative
            image of milkfat among regulators and health professionals as related to
            heart disease.

            OK, so how are you going to do it? Imagine you
            work for Big Butter. You’ve got quite the challenge ahead of you. If you
            look at recommendations from around the globe, there is a global
            scientific consensus to limit saturated fat intake with most
            authoritative bodies recommending getting saturated fat at least under
            10% of calories, with the prestigious U.S. Institute of Medicine and the
            European Food Safety Authority recommending to push saturated fat
            consumption down as low as possible.

            The latest guidelines from
            the American Heart Association and the American College of Cardiology
            recommend reducing trans fat intake, giving it their strongest A grade
            level of evidence. And the same with reducing saturated fat intake, and
            since saturated and trans fats are found in the same place, meat and
            dairy, cutting down on foods with saturated fat will have the additional
            benefit of lowering trans fat intake. They recommend pushing saturated
            fat intake down to like 5 or 6%. So that’s what you see when you go to
            the American Heart Association website, no more than 5 or 6% of
            calories. People don’t realize how small that is. One KFC chicken breast
            could take you over the top. Or, two pats of butter and two cubes of
            cheese and you’re done for the day—no more dairy, no meat, no eggs.
            That’d be about 200 calories, so they are in effect saying 90% of your
            diet should be free of saturated fat containing foods. So that’s like
            the American Heart Association saying OK, two meals a week can be packed
            with meat, dairy, and junk, but the entire rest of the week should be
            unprocessed plant-foods. That’s how stringent the new recommendations
            are.

          • Rami Najjar

            Michael,

            It is difficult to follow how the premise of your points leads to the conclusion that cholesterol and fat, particularly saturated fats, are healthy for us.

            1. The only essential fat is omega 3 and 6, not saturated fat. There is no biological requirement to consume saturated fat.

            2. Cholesterol is essential to life does not equal “we should have high cholesterol”. Those who have total cholesterol less than 10 due to genetic mutations live perfectly healthy lives. No diet in a normal, healthy human can ever get that low. and it should be noted, they never develop heart disease.

            3. Essential, but that again does not follow that high is good. LDL is after all what builds up plaques, the fatty streaks in arteries are not made from carbohydrates.

            “In general, wall thickness increased with increasing intake of animal fat, saturated and monounsaturated fat, cholesterol and Keys’ score and decreased with increasing intake of vegetable fat…the association between diet and wall thickness was in the expected direction in all race-sex groups.”
            http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/139/10/979.abstract

            4. There is no scientific bases to assume that large LDL is neutral.

            Women
            Large LDL raises heart disease risk 44%
            Small LDL raises heart attack risk 63%
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2663974/

            Men
            Large LDL raises heart attack risk 31%
            Small LDL raises heart attack risk 44%
            http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/113/12/1556.full

            Assuming that LDL is particularly bad, studies looking at egg consumption. a rich source of saturated fat and cholesterol, show increased small ldl
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1129159/pdf/jcinvest00767-0060.pdf
            http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/23/8/1437.long

            6. This is an invented opinion.

            Studies looking at fat intake show increased inflammatory markers.
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2858203/
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20377925
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10609824
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11150753
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11714996
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22850317
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11108325

            Saturated fat leads to insulin resistance

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3574210/
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC507380/
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/0010480616
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18460913
            http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/54/7/1926.long
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1934376
            http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/58/2/129.long
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16596361
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3572653/

            And saturated fats rich diets raise LDL while raising HDL proportionally low.
            http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/73/5/885.long

            7. The healthiest and most long lived populations thrive on carbohydrates and have the longest lifespans with very little chronic disease.

            The Tarahumara Indians of Mexico are a population considered to be very healthy for reasons to be explained. Their diet is 75-80% carbohydrates and unlike their American counterparts, only 6% of calories came from added sugars as opposed to 20%. They ate mostly corn,beans and peppers. Their total fat was 12% of calories, and saturated fat was 2% of calories.
            http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/32/4/905.full.pdf

            Their life expectancy is statistically drawn down to to high infant mortality but it is noted in another study on them that they have very low levels of cholesterol, no obesity and no age related serum rise in cholesterol. They were also adequate in all nutrients and their diet was very high carbs.
            http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/31/7/1131.full.pdf

            Interestingly, when they were put on the standard American diet for 5 weeks that is also very high in carbs, but likely wrong kinds, their results were as follows:

            31% increase in Cholesterol
            Increase in LDL and HDL 39% and 31% respectively
            Triglycerides increased 18%
            body Weight increased 7%
            http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199112123252405

            This study took 20 Hawaiians who were consuming a high carb standard American diet and put
            on a diet for 21 days that was the traditional pre western Hawaiian diet. This diet had 7% of calories from fat and 78% from complex carbohydrates. they were allowed to eat however much they wanted to. Low and behold, the average weight loss was 22 lb’s and cholesterol decreased 15%.
            http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/53/6/1647S.long

            The weight loss was extreme for the 21 days, notably because the participants were quite overweight (average 264 lbs). Another study with more humble results took another group of people and put them on the Hawaiian diet for 21 days. The results were as follows

            11 lb weight reduction
            Systolic BP 136 to 124
            Diastolic BP 82 to 78
            Total cholesterol went from 205 to 156
            LDL from 125 to 94.9
            HDL from 38 to 31
            Triglycerides from 238 to 152
            blood sugar from 112 to 91
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11320614

            The model of paleo diets, the Inuits. They consume copious amounts of animal protein and fat and have a very low carb
            diet. This diet is not one to model after, “The data collected through this new investigation shows that Eskimos do have a similar prevalence of [coronary artery disease] CAD to non-Eskimo populations, and in fact, they have very high rates of mortality due to cerebrovascular events (strokes). Overall, their life expectancy is approximately 10 years less than the typical Danish population and their overall mortality is twice as high as that of non-Eskimo populations.”
            http://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/investigators-find-something-fishy-with-the-classical-evidence-for-dietary-fish-recommendations

            Lastly, the okinawan diet is traditionally 80% carbohydrates and they had the most centenarians per capita.

            Fiber is carbohydrate based, so yes we do need carbohydrates for health.

          • Michael Gaines

            No its not the best science it among the worse.

            The population sample is miniscule, the control was lost from the original participants, there is no clear way of proving new persons within his study accurately followed a low carbohydrate protocol etc.

            Dr flemming according to other post was under investigation for insurance fraud according to some too.

            My own cardiologist has beautiful cardiovascular health and has been Low carb for 15+years and he preaches this approach to all of his patients.

          • Michael Grains

            Both prediabetes and type 2 diabetes are caused by insulin
            resistance. Insulin resistance is now accepted to be closely associated
            with the accumulation of fat within our muscle cells. This fat toxicity
            inside of our muscles is a major factor in the cause of insulin
            resistance and Type 2 diabetes, as it interferes with the action of
            insulin. I’ve explored how fat makes our muscles insulin resistant, how
            that fat can come from the fat we eat or the fat we wear, and how not
            all fats are not the same. It’s the type of fat found predominantly in
            animal fats, relative to plant fats, that appears to be especially
            deleterious with respect to fat-induced insulin insensitivity. But this
            insulin resistance in our muscles starts years before diabetes is
            diagnosed.

            This is a graph of fasting blood sugars in the 13 years
            prior to the onset of diabetes. Insulin resistance starts over a decade
            before diabetes is actually diagnosed, as blood sugar levels slowly
            start creeping up. And then all the sudden the pancreas conks out, and
            blood sugars skyrocket. What could underlie this relatively rapid
            failure of insulin secretion?

            At first, the pancreas pumps out
            more and more insulin trying to overcome fat-induced insulin resistance
            in the muscles, and high insulin levels can lead to the accumulation of
            fat in liver, called fatty liver disease. Before diagnosis of Type 2
            diabetes, there is a long silent scream from the liver. As fat builds up
            in our liver, it becomes resistant to insulin too.

            Normally, the
            liver is constantly producing blood sugar to keep our brain alive
            between meals. As soon as we eat breakfast, though, the insulin released
            to deal with the meal normally turns off liver glucose production,
            which makes sense since we don’t need it anymore. But filled with fat,
            the liver becomes insulin resistant like our muscles do and doesn’t
            respond to the breakfast signal, and so keeps pumping out blood sugar
            all day long on top of whatever we eat. So the pancreas pumps out even
            more insulin to deal with the high sugars and our liver gets fatter and
            fatter. That’s one of the twin vicious cycles of diabetes. Fatty
            muscles, in the context of too many calories, leads to a fatty liver,
            which leads to an even fattier liver. This is all still before we have
            diabetes, but then the next vicious cycle starts.

            Fatty liver can
            be deadly. So the liver starts trying to offload the fat by dumping it
            back in the bloodstream in the form of something called VLDL and that
            starts building up in the cells in the pancreas that produce the insulin
            in the first place. So now we know how diabetes develops. Fatty
            muscles, lead to a fatty liver, which leads to a fatty pancreas. It is
            now clear that Type 2 diabetes is a condition of excess fat inside our
            organs.

            The only thing that was keeping us from diabetes, from
            unchecked skyrocketing blood sugars, is that the pancreas was working
            overtime pumping out extra insulin to overcome insulin resistance. But
            as the so-called islet, or Beta cells in the pancreas, are killed off by
            the fat buildup, insulin production starts to fail, and we’re left with
            the worst of both worlds, insulin resistance combined with a failing
            pancreas. Unable to then overcome the resistance, blood sugar levels go
            up and up and we have Type 2 diabetes.

            This has implications for
            cancer as well. Obesity leads to insulin resistance, and our blood
            sugars start to go up, so our pancreas starts pumping out more insulin
            to try to force more sugar into our muscles, and eventually the fat
            spills over into the pancreas as well, killing off the insulin-producing
            cells, and we’ve got diabetes, in which case we may have to start
            injecting insulin at high levels to overcome the insulin-resistance, and
            these high insulin levels promote cancer. That’s one of the reasons we
            think obese women get more breast cancer. It all traces back to fat
            getting into our muscle cells, causing insulin resistance. Fat from our
            stomach or fat going into our stomach.

  • jpushman

    My brother recently told me of his diet that requires a high fat, low carbs. Which he got from a book he found. Unfortunately, I can’t remember the name of the book. I was wondering if you can enlighten me on this type of diet. I am not sold on this and believe it could be harmful, at least on a cardiac level involving cholesterol and saturated fats. I know he uses a good amount of olive oil in everything he cooks and the same with egg consumption. For the eggs, he believes it’s a lie that is spread about how bad they are.

    Thank you,
    Joe

  • Beth

    My husband & I transitioned to a plant based diet 2 months ago from eating as much organic as we could including meat two times a week. My husband has type 2 diabetes and had his blood taken today for a quarterly check. He talks oral med’s for diabetes as well as for blood pressure. As of today his doctor has put him on Lipitor even though his total cholesterol was 133 at his last check. When he asked why. His doctor told him numbers don’t matter. He’s in a high risk group so he needs to take it regardless of his numbers. My husband explained that we were eating on a plant based diet but that didn’t matter. I’m very concerned that if we continue to eat plant based he could be taking too much medication. Wondering if I this is a valid concern or if I’m overly worried.

    • Thea

      Beth: That’s a pretty shocking story to me. I’m not a physician, but a couple of the videos on this site talk about how getting total cholesterol under 150 makes one pretty much heart-attach-proof (especially if LDL is under 70). Meanwhile, statins like Lipitor have *serious* side effects. Really serious. http://nutritionfacts.org/page/2/?s=statins

      If memory serves, there is even a link between statins and Type 2 diabetes! (Can someone find that video or article?) Putting someone with type 2 diabetes on a statin seems criminal to me. You just listed the 133 number, but based on that and the diet you are following it seems your husband is doing really well.

      So, I think your concern is very legitimate. If it were me, I’d try to find a doctor who understands the disease, drugs and cures better. Especially if you are eating a diet like the one listed in the book I reference below. In that case, your husband needs to work closely with a doctor who knows how to take him off the diabetes drugs as it becomes necessary.

      If you haven’t checked out Dr. Barnard’s book, “Dr. Barnard’s Program For Reversing Diabetes”. I’ve read this book cover to cover and think it is an awesome book, including recipes in the back. It is based on actual clinical, published trials.
      http://www.amazon.com/Neal-Barnards-Program-Reversing-Diabetes/dp/1594868107/ref=sr_1_1_twi_1_pap?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1437853726&sr=1-1&keywords=barnard+diabetes

      Congrats on transitioning to a plant based diet. You are both way ahead of your medical professional. Good luck in figuring this out.

      • Beth

        Thanks for the reply. I haven’t read Dr. Barnard’s book but I’m going to get it right away. My husband’s doctor told him the main side effect was joint pain and that most people are able to deal with it. He did look up the side effects of Lipitor for himself and saw that it can cause high blood sugar as well as a lot of other serious issues, which made us question even more why it was prescribed. After talking with his parents he learned that they as well as other family members who are Type 2 Diabetic are taking Lipitor along with their oral diabetic med’s & high blood pressure pills. All were told the same thing by various doctors – “numbers don’t matter – you’re in a high risk category”. Because of what we’ve been learning on this site and others he has decided to wait to get his new blood work numbers and then he’s going to talk to another doctor. Does anybody know if having a total cholesterol under 150 is for everyone no matter their gender and race? It seems race is why he and his family members are in the high risk category. Thanks.

        • Jennifer Drost, Physician Assi

          Hi Beth, I think most of us old school clinicians were taught to see Diabetes and Heart Disease as inevitably linked. In school, we were taught treat the diabetes with medicine, and to just start treating that cholesterol and high blood pressure, too, because they are all thought to be inevitable consequences of diabetes. We (patients and clinicians) all know better now. There are things we can do (such as your and your husband’s diet shift-congrats btw!) to reverse diabetes and its effects (such as heart disease). Your husband’s doc may be shocked that your husband made such profound lifestyle changes, and I suspect he will be even more shocked and pleased as your husband’s numbers continue to improve. If your hubby keeps up his healthy choices, he will likely reverse the diabetes as well as fall into a lower risk category for heart disease, which will probably help his doc feel comfortable stopping the statin. In the interim, perhaps ask his doc if he’s willing to consider reading this NutritionFacts.org piece together (about statins) to help keep the communication open. Hope this helps!

  • AryaJane

    What about Type 1 diabetes? If I am not mistaken Type 1 is the one a person is born with?! So, what causes this type of diabetes? My sister claims that there is research and studies done where whole populations of people(primarily in Tropics) have Type 1 diabetes because they eat too much fruit! So, basically she is trying to say that fruit(or sugar) causes type 1 diabetes! Is that true? Is there any research like that? Is there anything that disproves it? Thank you!

  • JHM

    Hello! I am pretty nutrition-savvy, but have a long-standing question related to the content of Dr. Greger’s video to which I haven’t been able to get a conclusive answer. Dr. Greger talks about the bad effects of saturated fats on pancreatic beta cell function. However, what about coconut and coconut oil? I know it has been found that many of the harmful effects of animal-based proteins aren’t a problem in plant-based proteins. Does the same hold true for plant-based saturated fats? I have been told by some people to avoid coconut oil, but others laud its health benefits, and also note its lower potential for oxidation when cooking, which is what I use it for. My cholesterol is around 150 and my triglycerides in the 50s, so it doesn’t seem to be having a negative effect there, but I am unsure what it may or may not be doing to pancreatic beta cells. Your input on this would be appreciated; thanks!

    • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

      Dr. Greger has a few thoughts on coconut oil. I took this straight from his transcripts: “Walter Willett’s recommendation from Harvard, if you are going to use it use it sparingly. Now look, if you’re eating so healthy that your LDL cholesterol is under 60 or 70, then I don’t see coconut oil as a problem. Unlike saturated animal fats, coconut oil doesn’t cause that spike inflammation immediately after consumption of animal foods, which makes sense because as you’ll remember it may be the dead bacterial endotoxins in animal products ferried into the body by saturated fat that are to blame. ”

      There are 3 videos in the “Doctor’s Note” section that discuss animal fat and endotoxins. I think they may helpful. Fresh coconut and coconut water are probably the best sources of the coconut. Two recent reports on coconut oil that may also help include reports by CSPI and Forks Over Knives.

      • JHM

        Thanks for the reply Joseph. My last blood test back in May my LDL was 61. I had a look at Dr. Greger’s video. I do use coconut oil sparingly; only for when I cook, only about a teaspoon at a time, and not every day. I have no particular love of the taste of coconut oil, I only use it because of what I had heard about it being more heat stable and not so easy to oxidize. I would be glad to switch it out for another oil if something had that same property, however, from my understanding polyunsaturated vegetable oils go rancid easily and oxidize when heated. Would you have a recommendation for another oil that would be better? As a graduate of Dr. Campbell’s program at Cornell I have my reservations about all added oils above and beyond those naturally occurring in food, so I try not to overdo any oil, but it would be good to know about a possible substitute for coconut oil given the issues noted by Dr. Greger. Thanks in advance!

        • Joseph Gonzales R.D.

          Good points. Any added oil is not necessarily needed in the diet. Dr. Greger’s talk about the true shelf life of oils (however coconut oil was not tested). Deep frying with coconut oil may actually be worse than others like canola. You probably are not deep frying though ;-) I’m not entirely sure what oil is best considering none preferred. Extra-virgin olive oil doesn’t seem to have a negative reaction (like you get from animal fats), but walnuts are better. Again, a tad of coconut oil may not be so terrible for you, but for others it may worsen LDL cholesterol levels.

  • falcon

    These kinds of videos, especially the diabetes series, are the ones that I love this page so much for. I would just like to thank you so much Dr. Greger for all the work you do. It makes such huge difference for so many people when theres is so much conflicting information and opinions regarding nutrition. It is truly appreciated!

  • Caroline

    Thank you for your videos. I have the same issue with people. If I tell them (or show) them this video, they would most likely not believe it. They all say it’s the carbs and are chocked by how much fruit I eat (HCLF vegan) but I feel great… Amazing!

  • Rodrigo Cardoso
  • Serious

    I am hoping this is an acceptable place to ask after checking the terms I could find. There seems to be distinct lack of information both online in general and on here relating to Diabetes Insipidus, specifically prevention, causes, and effective means of healing or maintaining/preventing it from damaging the body further and impacting upon the quality of life. A friend has it and has been told they will be in a wheelchair in the next few years. All information regarding “alternative” and nutritional studies I can find relate to Diabetes Mellitus type 1&2.

  • Jessica

    I’m curious: do you disagree that soda and other SSB consumption contribute to the development of type 2 diabetes? (See http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/07/23/425635400/even-if-youre-lean-1-soda-per-day-ups-your-risk-of-diabetes)

    Put another way, is the consumption of sugary drinks an independent risk factor for type 2 diabetes, or is it more likely that high-calorie diets rich in saturated fats also happen to be high in sugary drinks? (Or a slight wrinkle on the second theory: perhaps the selection of a sugary drink influences food choices that are higher in saturated fats–e.g., soda and pizza, soda and a cheeseburger.)

  • Daniel

    What about saturated fats of plants?

  • Wow. The exact opposite of what Mercola says. Shall have to investigate.

  • Dean

    hmm so about a year ago i was 220lbs 50yr old male, HDL 25 Triglicerydes over 200, cholesterol 195, blood pressure 140/90, i started eating a 70%fat 20% protein 10% carb diet, now i weigh 185lbs HDL 75, Triglycerides 110, cholesterol 210, blood pressure 119/ 70 and I feel great, am i doing something wrong according to your video.

    • guest

      Give it time, your heart attack is on its way with a 70% fat diet. Look at how terrible the Inuit health is if you want a window into why we should be avoiding high fat diets. They are riddled with cancer and heart disease. Males Inuits die in their 50s on high fat diets. Remember heart disease builds slowly over time. There is a lot more damage going on that you are ignoring outside of lipid numbers. Low carb diets have been shown to feed heart disease in recent studies.

      http://nutritionfacts.org/2015/05/19/low-carb-diets-and-coronary-blood-flow/

      You are playing Russian roulette with your arteries on a unhealthy fad
      high fat diet. It’s your arteries, treat them well. Kick keto to the
      curb and get on the WFPB high carb lifestyle!

  • Frederique Geubbels

    What about whole plant based sources of fat like nuts and seeds? Do they also promote diabetes?

  • Alex

    Good Doctor, I wonder if you could comment on this review (or point to a video/post in which you already have). I’ve found points 1-6, 11, and 12 discussing only eliminating symptomatic cause, not cure. Point 7 is, as far as I understand, complete bullshot. Points 8, 9, 10 are beyond me.

    Dietary carbohydrate restriction as the first approach in diabetes management

    http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/S0899-9007(14)00332-3/fulltext

  • Mourad Massouda

    For people used to eat some animal meat for protein, are there menus or eating plans that compensate for the meat, however they pretend it to be lean?

  • Joe

    I am 65 yrs. old and have been a strict vegan for almost 20 yrs. No diabetic family history on either side to my knowledge back to the mid 1800’s.
    But I somehow developed type 2 diabetes 6 months ago. I am a very active male at 5′ 8″ weighting about 155 with a BMI average of 23.
    BG levels for the last 15 yrs. have been steady at 92. Then all of a sudden 1st. month increase was 128, 2nd was 168 then third was at over 400.
    Wife took me to ER I was re-hydrated and given insulin via IV. let go with script for metformin. Endocrinologist doesn’t know why. Just did several blood tests which all came back ok. Said to stay on script and watch my diet. I said what diet. I eat only raw and some steamed veggies, legumes and take vegan multi vitamins including B12. Dr. just said same thing, ‘I don’t know why’ but I can regulate your sugar levels but not correct the problem because it’s probably genetic. My wife and I juice with our champion juicer twice a day greens (kale, broccoli, ginger, chard) only. No carrots or other veggies or high sugar fruits.
    Although I do eat an occasional fruit now and then. We are almost completely raw veggie eaters and very use to it. So Plant based diets work sometimes but not all the time. Additional note: My ph. level stays alkaline at 7.2 to 7,5. So what more can I do???

  • amol

    Me and my family, relatives, forefather are vegetarian for religious region. My forefathers from last 150 yrs never had meat,fish,eggs. Always had vegetables , fruits,whole foods and home made foods. But in recent years we have seen so many diabetes cases in family., In fact many are for young ages as 30 , high BP in 25+. What could be going wrong then?

  • Amanda

    What an exceptional presentation on the cause of diabetes. I am so grateful to have happened upon it while researching health benefits of Bragg’s Apple Cider Vinegar! My 68 year old father has been diagnosed with T2D since the age of 60 and is now suffering from hypertension along with 25% functioning of the kidneys. This is the first I have heard about a high fat diet being a main contributor in T2D! My father, of course, finds no issue in eating a high fat/protein laden diet as he says the only thing he needs to concern himself with is his carbohydrate/sugar intake! Thank you so much for the information and though I know he will never change his lifestyle, I can be confident that I am eating appropriately to prevent this disease from consuming my own body.

    • Thea

      Amanda: I agree. This video is an excellent presentation. If you think your father might become interested in trying to fix his condition, I would *highly* recommend the book, “Dr. Neal Barnard’s Program For Reversing Diabetes”. The book explains also does a good job of explaining this same material and goes over published studies Dr. Barnard has done to show his diet is 3 times more effective than the ADA diet. The big benefit is that the back of the book includes 7 days of meal plans and recipes. So, it can help someone figure out exactly what an anti T2 diabetes diet looks like.
      http://www.amazon.com/Neal-Barnards-Program-Reversing-Diabetes/dp/1594868107/ref=sr_1_1_twi_pap_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1453223964&sr=1-1&keywords=program+for+reversing+diabetes
      Maybe someday you just happen to have the book lying around on coffee table during a visit… ;-)

      In the mean time, I too am glad you are doing what’s right for you. You know that you are doing all you can.

  • HS

    In these studies, did the studies actually say what the subjects ate? as in 3 eggs and 1 cup of water? Because a lot of times, these studies say that the meal was a meal high in saturated fats or mono-unsaturated fats or the like. Saying that really doesn’t say anything to me. If the studies had the subjects eating a six oz steak with a cup of water before tests were run, and the conclusion drawn in the video was a result of those tests, that is something that will get my attention. Not “the subjects consumed a meal high in SF” because that can mean a whole host of meals.

  • John Axsom

    I just came to this website after reading an article on Mercola’s website blaming diabetes on carbs. The article also praised saturated fats. His article didn’t have the kind of scientific backup that Dr. Greger’s presentation has. But, what concerns me is here we have Mercola and thousands of people eating saturated fat. Common sense just tells you that this fat is going to plug up your arteries. But, they blame carbs, and sugars as the cause for most disease. We have sent men to the moon, why can’t the medical scientists get this straight?

    • Thea

      John Axsom: I understand and share your frustration.
      .
      I had a thought in response to your last question: “… why can’t the medical scientists get this straight?” Dr. Mercola is not a medical scientist. He is a person making a lot of money off of selling supplements. And we live in a world where industries with money are able to buy studies which end up getting published in peer reviewed journals, even when the studies are bogus. It’s not that our experts *can’t* get it straight or that we don’t generally have the information we need already. It’s that we have a bad system (including the role the media and government have played) with too much corruption to get the information properly disseminated and absorbed by the main population. As so many people have said on this website: Follow the money.
      .
      Your question is right on point, however, in terms of expressing frustration over how hard it is for the average lay person to get accurate nutrition information, even when they make an effort to do some research. On another page, another poster said she believes that all you have to do is fully disclose ingredients in a food product, and the people will be able to figure out for themselves if the food is healthy or not. Your post is just one of hundreds illustrating how inaccurate that belief is.

  • Dia

    I keep saying a to Japanese woman who has her gall bladder removed to stop eating saturated fat. She has advanced diabetes and is very fat, goes to hospital repeatedly, crashing. I tell her to eat soaked brown rice with soaked azuki, and fruit, and fish. This diet is low in omega-6 and has some omega-3 to improve insulin sensitivity. She then said I should stop pushing my own diet to hers and ignores me, eating meat and white rice as usual.