Benefits of Cabbage Leaves for Relief of Engorged Breasts

Benefits of Cabbage Leaves for Relief of Engorged Breasts
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Cabbage is put to the test in a randomized controlled trial.

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

In response to a photo showing a woman taping a cabbage leaf onto her knee to help with her osteoarthritis, doctors wrote in asserting that “Cabbage leaves can help inflammation of any body part….You may even find that there is a cache of cabbage in the fridge of your local maternity unit.” Why? Well, not only is cabbage cheaper than gel packs, but knees are not the only “anatomical shapes” that the leaves “conform well to.”

“Breast engorgement”—when the breasts become overfilled with milk during breastfeeding, becoming hard, tight, and painful—can negatively impact both mother and infant alike. So, why not put cabbage leaves on them? A lactation consultant in a breastfeeding journal suggests wearing cabbage leaves. Evidently works like a charm, and once the swelling goes down, “frequent breastfeeding” should help the breasts from refilling too much.

Where did she even get the idea for this? Well, her son got in a car accident, she “wrapped his leg in cabbage,” and the rest is history. The only adverse side effect identified was a complaint from the son, who felt “like a vegetable.”

“Based on the information [she] collected, [she concluded that] cool green cabbage compresses have anti-inflammatory, anti-edema [anti-swelling] and anti-infectious properties.” But, you don’t really know, until you…put it to the test. Yeah, but who’s going to do a randomized, controlled study of cabbage leaves? Scientists, that’s who. “Do cabbage leaves prevent breast engorgement?” Let’s find out.

120 women randomized to apply “cabbage leaves to their breasts,” or not. Though the cabbage group “tended to report less breast engorgement,…the trend was not statistically significant,” though one of the big things you care about is premature weaning. And, the cabbage group did seem able to extend the time they were exclusively breastfeeding. So, while they couldn’t “rule out the possibility that cabbage leaves had a direct effect on breast engorgement,…[the leaves] may have contributed to the increased breastfeeding success in the experimental group.” However, the researchers “consider…the positive effect [to be] more likely [due to] psychological mechanisms”—in other words, the placebo effect. They did weed out some of the true believers, though, as some women refused to join the study out of fear they might end up in the control group, and not be able to use them.

A similar study performed recently found that while adding cabbage leaves to early breast care didn’t significantly reduce pain, it did seem to significantly reduce breast hardness. Since it probably can’t hurt, some women might want to just give it a try. But, it would be nice to get some more concrete answers. Like, how about a treatment trial instead of just prevention? You could try hot cabbage leaves versus cold cabbage leaves. To control for the placebo effect, you could use placebo cabbage, like iceberg lettuce leaves or something. In fact, since both breasts are affected, women could act as their own controls, with cabbage on one breast and turning over a new leaf on the other.

How about a comparison of “Chilled Cabbage Leaves [versus] Chilled Gelpacks”? Just cold alone “decreases blood flow” and might, therefore, “decrease engorgement.” On the other hand, maybe cabbage leaves contain some component “that the mother’s skin absorbs” that somehow helps. You don’t know, until you…put it to the test.

“Thirty-four lactating women with breast engorgement.” One breast got the cabbage; one breast got the gel pack. “Their pain levels were established [before and after]….” And: “There was no difference.’ They both appeared to work about just as well, with two-thirds reporting relief within hours either way—though, interestingly, “[t]he majority of mothers preferred the cabbage leaves.”

“The similarity in the effect…may have been caused by the fact that both applied cold,” although you’d think “the effects of the cold in the cabbage leaves would have been transitory.” So, hey, maybe there’s something special in cabbage leaves, after all? What you’d have to do is like a comparison of “Chilled [versus] Room Temperature Cabbage.” Okay, here you go! One breast gets the “chilled cabbage” leaf, and the other gets a “room-temperature cabbage” leaf. And: “There was no difference” between the two. They both seemed to work, suggesting that it’s not the cold itself that’s doing it. But, we still don’t know what role the placebo effect is playing.

If you were going to design a study to determine if there was some special compound in cabbage that could decrease breast engorgement, what would you do? You could try the iceberg lettuce. But, if women have heard about the cabbage effect, they might have an expectation bias in favor of the cabbage. Aha! How about using a “cabbage leaf extract”? Then, you can finally do a “double-blind experiment” where women don’t know which breasts are exposed to the cabbage by asking them to rub on a cream containing a cabbage-leaf extract versus a “placebo cream.” They added some rosewater to both creams to try to “camouflage any residual [cabbage] odor,” and “no difference” in relief. Now, “the decrease in discomfort produced by the cream…was not as strong as that produced by the real cabbage leaves…in [the] previous studies.”

The superiority of the whole leaves “might be explained by a failure of the extract to contain the potentially active chemical,” or maybe the chemical broke down, or maybe it wasn’t concentrated enough, or maybe there was just a powerful placebo effect of wearing cabbage leaves. The bottom line is that, “[e]ven though no active pharmacological substance in cabbage leaves has been identified…,its convenient shape [of cabbage leaves, their] low cost, wide availability, and purported soothing effect make it a sought after treatment.”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Macro Verch via Flickr. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video.

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

In response to a photo showing a woman taping a cabbage leaf onto her knee to help with her osteoarthritis, doctors wrote in asserting that “Cabbage leaves can help inflammation of any body part….You may even find that there is a cache of cabbage in the fridge of your local maternity unit.” Why? Well, not only is cabbage cheaper than gel packs, but knees are not the only “anatomical shapes” that the leaves “conform well to.”

“Breast engorgement”—when the breasts become overfilled with milk during breastfeeding, becoming hard, tight, and painful—can negatively impact both mother and infant alike. So, why not put cabbage leaves on them? A lactation consultant in a breastfeeding journal suggests wearing cabbage leaves. Evidently works like a charm, and once the swelling goes down, “frequent breastfeeding” should help the breasts from refilling too much.

Where did she even get the idea for this? Well, her son got in a car accident, she “wrapped his leg in cabbage,” and the rest is history. The only adverse side effect identified was a complaint from the son, who felt “like a vegetable.”

“Based on the information [she] collected, [she concluded that] cool green cabbage compresses have anti-inflammatory, anti-edema [anti-swelling] and anti-infectious properties.” But, you don’t really know, until you…put it to the test. Yeah, but who’s going to do a randomized, controlled study of cabbage leaves? Scientists, that’s who. “Do cabbage leaves prevent breast engorgement?” Let’s find out.

120 women randomized to apply “cabbage leaves to their breasts,” or not. Though the cabbage group “tended to report less breast engorgement,…the trend was not statistically significant,” though one of the big things you care about is premature weaning. And, the cabbage group did seem able to extend the time they were exclusively breastfeeding. So, while they couldn’t “rule out the possibility that cabbage leaves had a direct effect on breast engorgement,…[the leaves] may have contributed to the increased breastfeeding success in the experimental group.” However, the researchers “consider…the positive effect [to be] more likely [due to] psychological mechanisms”—in other words, the placebo effect. They did weed out some of the true believers, though, as some women refused to join the study out of fear they might end up in the control group, and not be able to use them.

A similar study performed recently found that while adding cabbage leaves to early breast care didn’t significantly reduce pain, it did seem to significantly reduce breast hardness. Since it probably can’t hurt, some women might want to just give it a try. But, it would be nice to get some more concrete answers. Like, how about a treatment trial instead of just prevention? You could try hot cabbage leaves versus cold cabbage leaves. To control for the placebo effect, you could use placebo cabbage, like iceberg lettuce leaves or something. In fact, since both breasts are affected, women could act as their own controls, with cabbage on one breast and turning over a new leaf on the other.

How about a comparison of “Chilled Cabbage Leaves [versus] Chilled Gelpacks”? Just cold alone “decreases blood flow” and might, therefore, “decrease engorgement.” On the other hand, maybe cabbage leaves contain some component “that the mother’s skin absorbs” that somehow helps. You don’t know, until you…put it to the test.

“Thirty-four lactating women with breast engorgement.” One breast got the cabbage; one breast got the gel pack. “Their pain levels were established [before and after]….” And: “There was no difference.’ They both appeared to work about just as well, with two-thirds reporting relief within hours either way—though, interestingly, “[t]he majority of mothers preferred the cabbage leaves.”

“The similarity in the effect…may have been caused by the fact that both applied cold,” although you’d think “the effects of the cold in the cabbage leaves would have been transitory.” So, hey, maybe there’s something special in cabbage leaves, after all? What you’d have to do is like a comparison of “Chilled [versus] Room Temperature Cabbage.” Okay, here you go! One breast gets the “chilled cabbage” leaf, and the other gets a “room-temperature cabbage” leaf. And: “There was no difference” between the two. They both seemed to work, suggesting that it’s not the cold itself that’s doing it. But, we still don’t know what role the placebo effect is playing.

If you were going to design a study to determine if there was some special compound in cabbage that could decrease breast engorgement, what would you do? You could try the iceberg lettuce. But, if women have heard about the cabbage effect, they might have an expectation bias in favor of the cabbage. Aha! How about using a “cabbage leaf extract”? Then, you can finally do a “double-blind experiment” where women don’t know which breasts are exposed to the cabbage by asking them to rub on a cream containing a cabbage-leaf extract versus a “placebo cream.” They added some rosewater to both creams to try to “camouflage any residual [cabbage] odor,” and “no difference” in relief. Now, “the decrease in discomfort produced by the cream…was not as strong as that produced by the real cabbage leaves…in [the] previous studies.”

The superiority of the whole leaves “might be explained by a failure of the extract to contain the potentially active chemical,” or maybe the chemical broke down, or maybe it wasn’t concentrated enough, or maybe there was just a powerful placebo effect of wearing cabbage leaves. The bottom line is that, “[e]ven though no active pharmacological substance in cabbage leaves has been identified…,its convenient shape [of cabbage leaves, their] low cost, wide availability, and purported soothing effect make it a sought after treatment.”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Macro Verch via Flickr. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video.

Doctor's Note

And you thought all it could do was coleslaw!

Does it work for knee arthritis? Check out Benefits of Cabbage Leaves on the Knee for Osteoarthritis.

What else can cabbage do? See: The Benefits of Kale & Cabbage for Cholesterol

Here’s some other pregnancy-related videos for your perusal:

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

56 responses to “Benefits of Cabbage Leaves for Relief of Engorged Breasts

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    1. Perhaps more helpful if it could have dealt with wider applications. For instance I am dealing with tendinitis of my foot and wonder is this might help reduce the swelling and pain. Why limit this information to just that one specific use?

      1. Tendinosis here. I wonder too. Maybe if it’s the placebo effect … does not matter, let’s try! And if it does not work, we’ll eat the failed cure. :o

        1. Ras, an amusing response. Are you finding tendinosis an impediment to exercise? Have you found any good treatments? I cannot believe how painful it can be and how it limits basic activities.

    2. Hi everybody,

      I have a very difficult question to Dr Michael H. Greger. I know he does not answer any questions by email so I decided to share my question here. I am polish and my auntie was diagnosed with a breast cancer 2 years ago. She had chemotherapy and radiotherapy, and also a surgery. At the moment her health condition is very bad. Her doctor told us she will die soon.. Her skin is yellow, her eyes are yellow… The cancer spread from breast to her liver.. And probably to her pancreas.. The give her glucose and NaCl by drip.. It is really hard for me to admit she is dying :( I have always thought out of the box… And even in this last moment I ask this question “Is it really the end? Can not we do anything else?”
      So my question to Dr Michael is “Is there anything we can do at the moment to prevent her from dying? Is there any kind of herb or something else we could give her to help her liver working better, to stop her yellow skin and eyes?” We found a doctor in Poland who confirmed that he could do a surgery of her liver but her skin and eyes cannot be yellow.. So what can we do to help her liver working properly and to decrease the level of bilirubin?” Thank you in advance!

      1. Hi I’m a RN health support volunteer. I’m so sorry to hear about your aunt’s condition. We wish her and your whole family all the best from all of us here at Nutrition Facts.
        Your aunt’s condition sounds very advanced so I would hate to give you any false sense of hope. But this is some of Dr. Greger’s information about breast cancer. Diet has been shown to be very beneficial in effecting breast cancer outcomes, but again your aunt’s condition sounds very advanced so I don’t know how helpful this information will be.
        https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/breast-cancer/
        https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-not-to-die-from-cancer/

        Colleague and mentor of Dr. Gregers, Dr. John McDougall, has done a lot of work on diet and breast cancer:
        https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2015nl/feb/dietandcancer.htm

        This is some of Dr. McDougall’s work on liver disease, but I am not sure how applicable it is to metastases of cancer to the liver.
        https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/health-science/common-health-problems/liver-disease-hepatitis-and-liver-failure/
        https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2002nl/jun/theliversaviorfromourabuses.htm

        I hope some of that information helps. Again, so sorry to hear about your aunt’s condition.
        NurseKelly

  1. Ooooo, that word “engorged” again.

    This topic sounds familiar. I think Dr. G. did one on cabbage leaves not long ago. True, it didn’t mention breast-feeding females at that time.

  2. I am pondering it for my friend who is allergic to Lasix.

    She has severe edema, and they were talking Congestive Heart Failure, but I don’t know that has been confirmed, but she gets hives all over her body from Lasix and is poor, so needs to work and works in a room with pre-school kids, so she sits on furniture designed for use with kids. Hard to get out of kid’s chairs with leg swelling. Can she patch together a whole cabbage leaf outfit?

    I am thinking it would have to be that she would have to wear it before work and take it off and probably still smell like cabbage.

    Pretty sure the kids would be saying, “Peeyew, you stink!” in the way kids just say everything out.

  3. Update on my B12 case.

    So, I was supplementing for years with B12 in the Methylcobalamin form at the dosage of 2.500 mcg per week. I didn’t know it has a lower bio availability as cyanocobalamin. This wasn’t a real problem because I drank a brand of soymilk daily that was enriched with cyanocobalamin.

    So anyway, I switched to a sifferent soymilk that was not fortified. And during my yearly blood checkup my serum B12 turned out to be insufficient.

    In the previous year it was 424 ng/L now it was 194 ng/L (197 was the cutoff point for defficiency but Brenda Davis says “vegans” should aim for a level around 400).

    Unfortunatly I checked for serum B12 (80% accurate) and a HoloTC would have been 10% more accurate. Next year I will demand it.

    So I send a urine test to the labo for a MMA level check. It came back between the normal ranges at 2.11, so it was not raised. It’s pretty clear that I’m B12 insufficient and not defficient.

    And yet I was having low energy levels in the gym for a couple of weeks now and I got suprised by the formation of regular blood blisters in my mouth. Both symptoms are unfamiliar to me so I assiciate them to the B12 level.

    I have been supplementing with 5.000 mcg methylcobalamin daily + 30 mcg cyanocobalamin during the last week.

    Because methyl is sold everywhere in my country, it took some time to find cyanocobalamin at the proper dosage. But I found some cheap bottles now with 1.000 mcg per tablet. This will enable me to take a higher cyano dosage in the coming week and I will be able to finally use 2.500 mcg cyanocobalamin as recomended by Dr. Greger.

    I will not switch back to the fortified soymilks because they have salt, added calcium (didn’t this raise mortality in a previous video?) and even the unsweetened versions here have some added sugar.

    1. Netgogate,

      Thanks for the update!

      That is useful to all of us!

      Update us the next test to let us know if you really have solved it. Sounds like you have.

      Yes, it is confusing researching it online, there are doctors saying that the Methylcobalamin is more bioavailable because B-12 is already in the Methyl form, but then other doctors say that the Methyl prefix has to be removed first and then put back on. Either way, in studies, the Methyl version didn’t always work. It is confounded a little by people with the dirty genes who need the Methyl donors to do that conversion.

      When I was just taking the Methylcobalamin, I started getting skin conditions and I wasn’t sure whether it was from B-12 or not, and I am not someone who remembers to take supplements all the time, so I can’t blame the Methyl version. I use Nutritional Yeast for stretches of time and I use Soy Milk in my Soy Green Tea Latte.

      As far as the wider culture goes, B-12 is another politicized issue and that makes it hard. I go to a picnic and there will end up being “B-12 Police” there telling everybody to not take cyanocobalamin, and then, they look down on me for eating soy and eating grains and not being keto, but that is just the stand I have to learn to take.

      I feel like I will eventually experiment with the hydroxy and adesono version, because I am someone who likes to understand things, but that will be after my dog is healed of cancer and after I fix my kitchen, if I still have money left after my dog gets healed of Cancer.

      He looked so good today! In September, I am going to want to start taking him for walks again and I promised not to do walks or drives. I did one test drive and my dog follows me to the door looking for a second drive.

      I am laughing because I go to 5 different grocery stores and Starbucks workers and every day everybody asks me how he is doing every single day and I say, “It is almost ten weeks!” and show them his smiling photo and say, “You see, that doesn’t look like a dog who would be dying from Cancer, does it?” and they say, “He looks so happy!”

      That is my routine.

        1. Yes, that seems to be a good argument.
          Therefore I have thrown out the remaining bottle of methylamine and will start with a newer bottle today.

          I expect the cyanocobalamin on friday, so that should make the whole process less of a gamble.
          I’m not so sure about Dr. Thomas Campbell’s idea anymore of targeting towards “a nice low level” of serum B12. The consensus seems to hint at the supplement not being carcinogenic and there is potential for being too low rather quickly.

    2. By the way, I looked up the blood blisters and on PubMed they call blood blisters in the mouth and enigma.

      They said that things like mucosal trauma, inhaled corticosteroids, and alterations in glucose metabolism can cause it.

      Then, I went to the people who suffered with it and anecdotally, B-Complex is what helped 3 or 4 people that I saw and one said that his doctor said that nothing could be done, but, “Luckily, my pharmacist told me that he had seen it before and told me to take a B-Complex.” One person said that they had suffered from blood blisters for 8 years and that a B-Complex stopped them from having them. The nonvegans end up assuming that it is B6 and the vegans assume that it is B12. The official answer is that PubMed doesn’t know what causes it.

      1. What helps me the most is how low you were, even while taking something.

        And that having the fortified milk had been enough to prevent deficiency.

        That helps me understand the difference between cyano and methyl and fortified foods more than the confusing internet debate.

        1. If it weren’t your health at stake, I would want you to try just the cyano version and see what that does to your numbers or up the Methyl version to a sufficient dosage and see if it works on you at all.

          That is the curious person on my left shoulder. The wanting to be safer and more responsible person on my right shoulder says, “Nope, fixing the problem is way more important than knowing whether Methyl is a total fail for you.”

    3. >>Brenda Davis says “vegans” should aim for a level around 400).
      Wonder why she says that. I’ve heard something along the lines of not less than 400. But then Dr. Breseden thinks the higher the better, even over 1000 (which is off some lab charts). And somewhere or other I heard no less than 500. Who really knows? But I’d rather be a little high than too low, which I take to be below 400 mcg. I was taking 1000 mcg cyanocobalamin and 300 mcg methylcobalamin daily and my B12 was over 1000. Cutting back to 500 mcg cyanocobalamin plus the 300 mcg methylcobalamin reduced it to the high 900s but I have not checked it in about 9 months.

      1. Actually, 400 was in pg/ml, so it turns out to be 300 pmol/L.
        So to be correct about Brenda Davis (1), what she said was;

        “Experts recommend that patients with levels below 300 pmol/L should be further tested for deficiency. Levels above 300 pmol/L are considered safe, thus a prudent target for “vegans”.”

        She gets this number because levels below 300 are where homocysteine starts to rise.

        (1) Davis, Brenda, and Vesanto Melina. Becoming Vegan: The Complete Reference to Plant-Base Nutrition. Book Publishing Company, 2014.

        1. Thanks for the update. That’s consistent with my understanding although I guess I bumped it up to around 400 based on what others have said, to be on the safe side.

    4. ‘Vitamin B12 deficiency is characterized by megaloblastic anemia, fatigue, weakness, constipation, loss of appetite, and weight loss [1,3,27]. Neurological changes, such as numbness and tingling in the hands and feet, can also occur [5,28]. Additional symptoms of vitamin B12 deficiency include difficulty maintaining balance, depression, confusion, dementia, poor memory, and soreness of the mouth or tongue [29]. The neurological symptoms of vitamin B12 deficiency can occur without anemia, so early diagnosis and intervention is important to avoid irreversible damage [6]. During infancy, signs of a vitamin B12 deficiency include failure to thrive, movement disorders, developmental delays, and megaloblastic anemia [30]. Many of these symptoms are general and can result from a variety of medical conditions other than vitamin B12 deficiency.

      Typically, vitamin B12 deficiency is treated with vitamin B12 injections, since this method bypasses potential barriers to absorption. However, high doses of oral vitamin B12 may also be effective. The authors of a review of randomized controlled trials comparing oral with intramuscular vitamin B12 concluded that 2,000 mcg of oral vitamin B12 daily, followed by a decreased daily dose of 1,000 mcg and then 1,000 mcg weekly and finally, monthly might be as effective as intramuscular administration [24,25]’
      https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/

    5. NG to my dim recollection the book on calcium was a overtly large amount at one time, being of harm. A small amount at one dose was not considered harmful.
      So soy milk fortified should not be a problem as the range is typically between 25 to 45% per cup. As long as one is only consuming a cup or so. Those studies showing harm were focused upon large large amounts such as one would find in a supplement pill not what one would find in soy milk. Keep in mind many studies on calcium use the typical source dairy in study so the question becomes..is it the calcium with the overt negatives or the dairy?

      Soy as you may know at large levels may have a tendency to cause production of IGF-1 which may be a concern.

      Where I live there are multiple variances to soy milk. What I am drinking now has 0 sugar and is a blend of almond and coconut. But I vary daily as to what I use last week it was flax milk. The product I have now has 5% of RDA of sodium but 9% RDA of potassium which seems a good ratio. Unless one is totally abstaining from salt as a part of high blood pressure management.

      But amazon now owns whole foods and much of their line on fake milks has no refrigerant necessary packaging. A nutritional composite is available on the site, they do vary. So I would say most places would have that available.
      Some may favor sublingual B-12 supplementation as perhaps it may bypass the gut a bit. They are widely available.

      1. To add I tried melatonin back in the day and never have nor had heart problems of any sort but that thing would send my into a aberrant heart pattern. A occasional PVC ever forth or so normal beat. Quite disconcerting. Would go away in a few hours or so totally unsymptomatic but entirely impossible to sleep with that going on.

        So I avoid it like the plague. Expect I am singular in that however never having heard of it in literature. But reaffirms we must be cautious with supplements….what is to say it was not some contaminant in it?

      2. Checked now actually, they do have what appears to be the whole line. Which is everything from cashew to flax to almond to coconut and variance with combinations of all.
        The nutritional composite is available by clicking on the picture of the item a side view. The zero sugar in most of the almond and other milks is not added but zero entirely in the no added sugar options and they seem to run in the 5-7% range for sodium potassium.
        Not refrigerated it can be ordered like any other item.
        Amazon the company plainly sucks treats their workers poorly but really in the industry with the exception of Costco that is the norm not the exception.

    1. YR, thanks for finding that video. I wonder how much cabbage and/or broccoli one must eat to achieve that improvement. No quantities were mentioned as I recall.

  4. The hospital in Australia where I delivered my first child 31 years ago was offering cabbage leaves to post-partum mothers with engorged breasts! The cabbage leaves certainly helped me :)

  5. I was just meditating prayerfully and I kept hearing the sentence hovering in the air as if it was someone else’s thought, “I never said anything that was useful” and I don’t think it was my thought and I am not sure whether it was the Holy Spirit or a nicer version of hallucinations coming back. I am taking my B-12 again.

    Speaking of useful, I was listening to my dog breathing and the lung songs and wet and dry coughs seem to be gone. No hacking dry cough.

    I have a strong sense that the various “infection natural products” actually are useful. Most of the various products are filled with 5-Star reviews. I am not a product salesperson and don’t like spending money on supplements, but my dog was on antibiotics for 8 weeks with no change at all in symptoms and I started giving these and almost immediately the symptoms started going away and they seem to be gone. There was a change the very first night and now there just aren’t any symptoms at all.

    I have a friend who also tried one product, different from mine, and it worked so well for her that she gave it to her friend and it worked for her and I am going to say that I don’t like supplements, but if I needed antibiotics, I would be taking these types of products with it.

    I say this to be useful, if possible.

    1. I meant to say that I haven’t had even one hallucination since I drank the FIji water months ago.

      Not sure if I could have accidentally gotten some aluminum back.

      1. Deb, you said you heard “I never said anything that was useful.” Wow, that’s sort of discouraging! :-(

        Are you sure it wasn’t “I never said anything that was NOT useful”?

    2. To my opinion the idea B-12 is cancer promoting is way way overblown and likely unsubstantiated.
      While a large amount of people were in the study the amount for B-12 for the men who showed this tendency were those taking 5500 mcgs and this was only with a smoking or ex smoker group of males.

      And the question becomes did they start with supplementation as they suffered from other symptom that suggested cancer though undiagnosed?

      And it has largly not been shown in other study. Actually the inverse may show in some B supplementation and breast cancer.

      The concensus opinion I take to be B-12 is largly harmless even at large doses If one is smoking and taking B-12 certainly stop smoking that will cause cancer probably not B12.On a list of dietary things to worry about I would put it at a one on a scale of ten.
      But some think microwave ovens are a big big worry so I guess you may pick your devil in things to a extend.
      I think it just sticks in the craw of those nature is all advocates, who rebel at the idea vegans may have to take it…so this is a excuse not to.

  6. Talking about cabbage, tere was interesting report on ScienceDaily a few days ago

    ‘Chemicals produced by vegetables such as kale, cabbage and broccoli could help to maintain a healthy gut and prevent colon cancer, a new study shows.

    The research, published in Immunity, shows that mice fed on a diet rich in indole-3-carbinol — which is produced when we digest vegetables from the Brassica genus — were protected from gut inflammation and colon cancer.

    “We studied genetically modified mice that cannot produce or activate AhR in their guts, and found that they readily developed gut inflammation which progressed to colon cancer,” explains first author Dr Amina Metidji from the Francis Crick Institute. “However, when we fed them a diet enriched with I3C, they did not develop inflammation or cancer. Interestingly, when mice whose cancer was already developing were switched to the I3C-enriched diet, they ended up with significantly fewer tumours which were also more benign.”

    “Normal mice on the purified control diet developed colon tumours within 10 weeks, whereas mice on the standard chow didn’t develop any,” explains co-corresponding author Dr Chris Schiering, who worked on the study at the Crick and now works at Imperial College London. “This suggests that even without genetic risk factors, a diet devoid of vegetable matter can lead to colon cancer.”

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180814173648.htm

    I wonder how healthy those all-meat diets will be long term? Even Eskimos/Inuit made special efforts to gather and eat plant foods I understand so they won’t be a useful guide.

    1. A couple of peoples one being a medical doc on you tube but is now advocating for a meat only diet. Blood work suggests he for one is going firmly diabetic as we speak. Coupled of course with blood cholesterol levels which are not healthy.

      Will he see a long life…I’d say chances are slim. Seems the couple I have heard of and looked at, the diabetic thing is the thing….I never thought that would present first before apparently even scurvey. Do they think the brits were taking limes on the ships because they liked them or liked being called limeys…how stupid peoples have become to forget even recent history.

        1. Yes TG you are right. One of the reality shows a one about fishing for crab in Alaska had one of its members come down with acute vit C deficiency as he was on a all meat diet. As a aside in the show, they just mentioned it in a personal history part on a crew member.
          So he went to a doc and was told to eat veggies and fruit.

  7. I just purchased the How not to die cookbook. Looking through the recipes I noticed that quite a few has Miso. I’m allergic to soy so I was wondering if there was anything that I could use to take the place of soy. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks!!

    1. Chris, I’m also allergic to soy. Miso and other soy products like tempeh are fermented, and don’t cause a problem for those of us allergic to soy. The recipes in the book usually use small amounts of miso. I’ve been eating small amounts of tempeh and miso with no problem and have tried many of the recipes without any issues.

      1. Thanks for the comment Nancy. I wish that was the case. For some odd reason I am allergic to all soy, even fermented. Took a trip to Mayo to figure all this out. I’ll figure out something to add to the dishes. Thanks again!!

  8. I need you to talk about autoimmune diseases specially autoimmune hepatitis.. I tried to ask for a specific nutrition consultation but the website says that you don’t accept new patients. Thanks

  9. What I wonder about is why some are compelled to debase humanity?
    Do they feel it necessary to drag all down to the hole they are in? Or is it some other base thing?
    Please elaborate…why do you troll?
    Is your life so ever unbearable you must diminish others? Or is it some other..please elaborate.

    1. The controls used in these studies are discussed in the video. You can also go to te ‘sources cited’ and check the individual studies for further details.

  10. Netgogate posted: “I will not switch back to the fortified soymilks because they have salt, added calcium (didn’t this raise mortality in a previous video?)”

    Yikes! What is it that will supposedly “raise mortality”? The added calcium? Sounds sinister. Do you have the link?

    1. If Netgogate doesn’t answer my question, maybe I too will give up soy (I’ll take it as a “sign,” haha). Seems I’m always switching from almond milk (no protein to speak of, although fortified with god-knows what) to WestSoy organic (nothing added), which does have a reasonable amount of protein.

      We earthlings do cause ourselves a lot of angst in the food department, don’t we!

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