Topical Honey for Canker Sores

Topical Honey for Canker Sores
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What works better against aphthous ulcers? Honey applied with a Q-tip three times a day after meals was compared head-to-head against an over-the-counter soothing pain-relieving paste and a prescription steroid cream.

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

We’ve known about painful aphthous ulcers—canker sores—for thousands of years: “the most common lesion” of the lining of our mouths, named, perhaps, by Hippocrates himself. Well, what did he prescribe for it? Well, he was a big fan of honey, for healing a bunch of sore body parts, though beat to the punch by a few millennia by the ancient Egyptians on that score. Also known by the ancient Chinese; perhaps “the oldest wound dressing…known to [humankind].” Well, how about a few thousand-year update?

Evidently, honey has been successfully used as a treatment for a number of types of wounds, including chronic ulcers. The evidence is apparently strongest for burns. Yeah, but okay; compared to what? Compared to a “boiled potato peel”? I’m not making that up. Apparently, honey works like twice as well as “boiled potato peel dressings,” perhaps because of an “antibacterial effect,” whereas the potato peels only seem to kind of cover things up, like slapping on cadaver skin. Ew! Maybe, I’ll stick to the potatoes. But, what else are you going to do in a resource-poor country?

Here, we have antibiotics to fight infections. So, quality of healing is often more defined as the aesthetic look of the resulting scar. So, plastic surgery patients had half of their surgical scar covered with conventional dressings, and the other half of the same scar covered in a honey dressing. And, the halves of the scars covered in honey healed about a third narrower than those covered conventionally, suggesting an improvement in the healing process.

Okay, but what about canker sores? Here, they report 19 cases. Started out with severe pain, but evidently, one day after rubbing honey on the sore, the pain was reduced drastically—in fact, gone, in “92% of patients,” and in most cases, the ulcer was gone completely by day three or four. Okay, but, there was no control group. Maybe they would have gotten better anyway; maybe there was a placebo effect.

Yeah, “modern medicine has neglected honey as a therapeutic agent,” because the science was poor—essentially a series of published anecdotes. But look, one could argue that there’s never been any significant side effects associated with the topical application of honey. So, what’s to lose? I sympathize with that logic, but would really like to see it put to the test. But, there hadn’t been any good studies, until…this one. A randomized, controlled trial: honey tested head-to-head against a steroid gel, against canker sores.

There’s all sorts of things doctors can prescribe for canker sores: topical agents like steroids and antibiotics, systemic medications—even laser therapy. But look, why not seek out “the least toxic…agent” first? May not be the most profitable, but why not start with the safest?

So, they randomized folks with canker sores into one of three groups, where they applied—with a Q-tip “three times a day (after meals)”—either an over-the-counter soothing pain-relieving paste, or a prescription steroid cream, or just plain “commercial honey,” directly onto the canker sore. Here’s what happened. Here are the pain scores. On the over-the-counter stuff, the pain was cut in half by day four and gone by day eight. On the prescription steroids, half by just two days, and gone by four. What about the honey group? Remember that series of cases that claimed total pain relief in one day? Well, it was put to the test, and…total pain relief within one day. That’s crazy! Pain for a week, or just pain for a day—and honey’s like 500 times cheaper.

What about ulcer size? Mostly gone by eight days, seven days, or…three days. And, cut in half in just one day, as opposed to three or four days. Here’s a before and after. Day one: massive canker sore, but dab a little honey on three times a day, and day one, two, and gone—day three.

So, a significant acceleration of healing and resolution of pain, all without “systemic side effects”—or local side effects for that matter, whereas the topical antibiotics that are sometimes used can have a variety of side effects. And, the nice thing about honey is that it doesn’t “lead to the development of” antibiotic resistance.

Now, this was a single-blind study, meaning the person evaluating the lesions didn’t know which group someone was in, but the patient surely knew, as honey would have had a very different taste and texture. And evidently, the Prophet Mohammad was a big fan of honey, and this study was done in Saudi Arabia. And so, it’s possible there was some bias. But, given the extraordinary results, one might want to give it a try.

Now, the benefits of honey may be due in part to the phytonutrients from the flowers the bee is making the honey from. So, why not try the flowers directly? A chamomile extract appeared to cut pain in half within ten minutes of application, but they didn’t follow them out in terms of healing. But, a 2% lavender oil in glycerin solution—two drops, three times a day—also had an immediate effect on pain, and, more importantly, seemed to accelerate healing—wiping out the ulcers by day four, with pain diminishing in a day or two, compared to over a week in the placebo group.

However you choose to treat your canker sores, if you keep getting them, you should see a medical professional to make sure it’s not some sign of an underlying disease. There are a number of conditions that can manifest with chronic canker sore-type lesions, like inflammatory bowel diseases, or acute necrotizing ulcerative gingivitis.

Uh, I think I’d rather have something like “Sweet syndrome”, or, even better, “MAGIC syndrome”. Who wouldn’t want to have “MAGIC syndrome”?! Anyone, I guess, who doesn’t want “genital ulcers.” I think I’ll stay a muggle.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Icons created by Made by Made, Juraj Sedlak, and joeartcon from The Noun Project

Image credit: PracticalCures.com. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

We’ve known about painful aphthous ulcers—canker sores—for thousands of years: “the most common lesion” of the lining of our mouths, named, perhaps, by Hippocrates himself. Well, what did he prescribe for it? Well, he was a big fan of honey, for healing a bunch of sore body parts, though beat to the punch by a few millennia by the ancient Egyptians on that score. Also known by the ancient Chinese; perhaps “the oldest wound dressing…known to [humankind].” Well, how about a few thousand-year update?

Evidently, honey has been successfully used as a treatment for a number of types of wounds, including chronic ulcers. The evidence is apparently strongest for burns. Yeah, but okay; compared to what? Compared to a “boiled potato peel”? I’m not making that up. Apparently, honey works like twice as well as “boiled potato peel dressings,” perhaps because of an “antibacterial effect,” whereas the potato peels only seem to kind of cover things up, like slapping on cadaver skin. Ew! Maybe, I’ll stick to the potatoes. But, what else are you going to do in a resource-poor country?

Here, we have antibiotics to fight infections. So, quality of healing is often more defined as the aesthetic look of the resulting scar. So, plastic surgery patients had half of their surgical scar covered with conventional dressings, and the other half of the same scar covered in a honey dressing. And, the halves of the scars covered in honey healed about a third narrower than those covered conventionally, suggesting an improvement in the healing process.

Okay, but what about canker sores? Here, they report 19 cases. Started out with severe pain, but evidently, one day after rubbing honey on the sore, the pain was reduced drastically—in fact, gone, in “92% of patients,” and in most cases, the ulcer was gone completely by day three or four. Okay, but, there was no control group. Maybe they would have gotten better anyway; maybe there was a placebo effect.

Yeah, “modern medicine has neglected honey as a therapeutic agent,” because the science was poor—essentially a series of published anecdotes. But look, one could argue that there’s never been any significant side effects associated with the topical application of honey. So, what’s to lose? I sympathize with that logic, but would really like to see it put to the test. But, there hadn’t been any good studies, until…this one. A randomized, controlled trial: honey tested head-to-head against a steroid gel, against canker sores.

There’s all sorts of things doctors can prescribe for canker sores: topical agents like steroids and antibiotics, systemic medications—even laser therapy. But look, why not seek out “the least toxic…agent” first? May not be the most profitable, but why not start with the safest?

So, they randomized folks with canker sores into one of three groups, where they applied—with a Q-tip “three times a day (after meals)”—either an over-the-counter soothing pain-relieving paste, or a prescription steroid cream, or just plain “commercial honey,” directly onto the canker sore. Here’s what happened. Here are the pain scores. On the over-the-counter stuff, the pain was cut in half by day four and gone by day eight. On the prescription steroids, half by just two days, and gone by four. What about the honey group? Remember that series of cases that claimed total pain relief in one day? Well, it was put to the test, and…total pain relief within one day. That’s crazy! Pain for a week, or just pain for a day—and honey’s like 500 times cheaper.

What about ulcer size? Mostly gone by eight days, seven days, or…three days. And, cut in half in just one day, as opposed to three or four days. Here’s a before and after. Day one: massive canker sore, but dab a little honey on three times a day, and day one, two, and gone—day three.

So, a significant acceleration of healing and resolution of pain, all without “systemic side effects”—or local side effects for that matter, whereas the topical antibiotics that are sometimes used can have a variety of side effects. And, the nice thing about honey is that it doesn’t “lead to the development of” antibiotic resistance.

Now, this was a single-blind study, meaning the person evaluating the lesions didn’t know which group someone was in, but the patient surely knew, as honey would have had a very different taste and texture. And evidently, the Prophet Mohammad was a big fan of honey, and this study was done in Saudi Arabia. And so, it’s possible there was some bias. But, given the extraordinary results, one might want to give it a try.

Now, the benefits of honey may be due in part to the phytonutrients from the flowers the bee is making the honey from. So, why not try the flowers directly? A chamomile extract appeared to cut pain in half within ten minutes of application, but they didn’t follow them out in terms of healing. But, a 2% lavender oil in glycerin solution—two drops, three times a day—also had an immediate effect on pain, and, more importantly, seemed to accelerate healing—wiping out the ulcers by day four, with pain diminishing in a day or two, compared to over a week in the placebo group.

However you choose to treat your canker sores, if you keep getting them, you should see a medical professional to make sure it’s not some sign of an underlying disease. There are a number of conditions that can manifest with chronic canker sore-type lesions, like inflammatory bowel diseases, or acute necrotizing ulcerative gingivitis.

Uh, I think I’d rather have something like “Sweet syndrome”, or, even better, “MAGIC syndrome”. Who wouldn’t want to have “MAGIC syndrome”?! Anyone, I guess, who doesn’t want “genital ulcers.” I think I’ll stay a muggle.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Icons created by Made by Made, Juraj Sedlak, and joeartcon from The Noun Project

Image credit: PracticalCures.com. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Doctor's Note

What about preventing canker sores in the first place? In some people, diet may be the culprit; see Apthous Ulcer Mystery Solved.

For more flower power, check out my videos on hibiscus tea (Hibiscus Tea vs. Plant-Based Diets for Hypertension), chamomile tea (Chamomile Tea May Not Be Safe During Pregnancy), lavender oil (Lavender for Migraine Headaches) and saffron (Saffron for Erectile Dysfunction). And hey, broccoli florets are just clusters of flower buds. See The Best DetoxBest Food to Counter the Effects of Air Pollution, and dozens of my other videos on broccoli.

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

129 responses to “Topical Honey for Canker Sores

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    1. Many moons ago I used to get these sores now and then. Then I started using 500 mg lysine before bed. After that no more sores. Beats waiting for them to appear and then treating them.

      Herpes is also associated with neuro-degeneration since it travels to the brain….not sure if the lysine prevents this.

      The problem with using honey on the skin is that it is MESSY. How long is it going to last on your lip when you can taste it and you will likely want to lick it off?




      2
      1. I used to bite my cheek or tongue while chewing food, which left a small white spot as it was healing, but haven’t done that in a long time. Is that a mouth ulcer?




        0
          1. We means we the people. By the authority of the religion of veganism, are we allowed to eat insects without committing a sin and going to hell?




            4
            1. Jerry

              I guess from this comment, and from what you have written previously about saturated fat and your claim that 70+ years of evidence from all around the world has been “faked”, that you must eat a fair bit of saturated fat.

              “diets that are high in saturated fat are becoming notorious for reducing molecular substrates that support cognitive processing and increasing the risk of neurological dysfunction in both humans3 and animals4”
              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2805706/

              “Of all the different types of fatty acids, the findings are most consistent for an increased risk of cognitive decline with a higher intake of saturated fatty acids.”
              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4107296/




              15
              1. Tom – Also, . . I recently came across some interesting research showing how a high saturated fat diet assists in promoting cancer metastasis.
                https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/314603.php?sr
                One can link to the original abstract by scrolling to the end of the article.
                The fat used in this particular research was palmitic oil – the same fat found in the saturated fats of coconut oil, palm oil, and animal fats.




                4
            2. Vegans are one thing, those who follow a plant-based diet are another “animal” entirely. I don’t consider myself a vegan, as I do wear leather shoes and carry leather handbags. And I do eat a small spoonful of honey on my cooked hot cereal in the morning….either that or blackstrap, unsulphured molasses.

              Sheesh, Jerry, if you wanna catch a fly and gulp it down, have to it!




              5
            3. Jerry, if veganism which is simply the logic of not excluding fellow sentient beings from the most basic forms of condideration is a religion, then I guess you must also think feminism is a religion, or gay rights, or the equal rights movement, and so on. Or for that matter, the rational belief and way of life of not punching random strangers in the face must also be thought of as a religion to you.

              To answer your question (based on ethics), no… you cannot eat insects because there is no need for you to do so (for example, you’re not a bird) in order to survive, therefore you would be taking the life away from a sentient being for no justified reason.

              Now, considering this website is not a vegan website and is strictly science based, it just so happens that in one of the videos here, Dr. Greger mentions that insects would be the healthiest animal protein if you were looking for the healthiest animal protein.

              Now back to AR, to build off of what someone above said, you can eat whatever you want, just not WHOever you want. But please stop ranting about how you hate veganism, it’s distracting and off topic. If you want to debate ethical lifestyles, go somewhere more appropriate, this website is about nutritional science.

              At first Jerry was shocking, then he was annoying, then he was amusing. Now it’s just getting old. There needs to be better troll monitoring here somehow.




              7
      1. Buster, it doesn’t matter what type of animal, vegans do not exploit any sentient being. There’s no discrimination of species. The belief that one species (humans) can dictate who does and doesn’t matter is the belief that can be credited for bringing us racism, sexism, etc. Speciesism is the root of all these things as speciesism is the root of the believe that some life matters more than others and we can decide who is worthy and who is not worthy of basic consideration.




        9
    1. It would depend on who you ask. But technically, honey is made by a ‘domesticated’ animal as they belong to the animal kingdom.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal#Etymology

      “The biological definition of the word animal refers to all members of the kingdom Animalia, encompassing creatures as diverse as sponges, jellyfish, insects, and humans.[4]”

      Morally, there could be a whole spectrum of many different cases but over 99.99% would be unethical as they been given a purpose against their will.




      2
      1. It’s not just against their will but the bees cry in distress as we take away their honey. And we kill non producing bees. And for bees used to pollinate our kale and blueberry, the bee contractors transport the bees from farms to farms and killing many of them, and spray smoke on them to pacify them during transportation. Humans are cruel. And even when you only eat plant foods, it is a privilege to be able to do so because we are still robbing nature.




        3
          1. S – you are right. And he also is a big advocate of bone broth. Out of curiosity I did a PubMed search on bone broth. Research and testing is showing that along with the lovely calcium and magnesium you get in your bone broth you can also enjoy seriously high levels of lead as well as additional levels of other heavy metals that harbor in animal bones. The amount of lead in the broth tested was 9.5 micrograms/litre. The amount currently considered safe is 15micrograms/litre although many experts believe it should be 10 mcg/L. From the research: “In view of the dangers of lead consumption to the human body, we recommend that doctors and nutritionists take the risk of lead contamination into consideration when advising patients about bone broth diets.” Here is the link if you’d like to read the research yourself:
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23375414




            7
    2. Non-vegan as the bees make it for themselves as a food source. If humans take it from them, they’re being deprived of the best food for them (the honey is usually replaced with sugar water for the bees to eat) and of the product of their hard work!




      7
      1. Dates are superior in every way imaginable to honey. Now to pile on 3 dates a day plus pomegranate (I believe any red berry like cranberry or raspberry would suffice) reduces oxidative stress in the arterial wall – the process which causes it to harden – by 33 per cent. If also decreased the cholesterol – fat – in the artery by 28 per cent. Why are we talking about honey again? Canker Schmanker…..forget the honey. Rub some dates on the skin and put a few in your mouth at the same time.




        4
    3. Hi George, honey is not a vegan product as it is an animal product and bees are exploited in order to get it. Bees produce honey for their hives and offspring and it takes a lot of work to do it. Incidentally, the honey industry is actually very cruel and destructive, I’d check out this video if you’re interested in learning more on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0N8UYgMGDQ (it’s quick and to the point). I’d opt for the lavender for these reasons.




      6
    4. Hey, honey is considered non vegan as the need their honey ! Also modern honey “producing” practices are quite cruel. You can learn more on youtube/internet!
      Don’t think it is weird because honey is bees vomit anyways..
      Vegans do support local beeskeeping without taking the honey!




      4
    5. Honey is not vegan and bees are sentient individuals. There may be some companies that do not “smoke” out the bees from their hives and kill them, if one wants to live a total vegan lifestyle, honey is not vegan.




      1
  1. Yay, evidence! I live in Costa Rica and rescue street dogs and cats and every veterinarian that I’ve met here in the past 11 years has suggested honey for wounds. I had a dog once that had a tumor removed on her leg that left a huge hole and I was dreading the healing process but to my surprise the vet’s honey suggestion worked really well. So cool to see that tests have been done to prove it works! I’ve also had veterinarian’s tell me to use chamomile tea bags to put on eyes but I’ve used drops at the same time too so I don’t know for sure which one is working. Possibly both.




    11
    1. Yes, I saw it in a rabbit vet book for abscesses, which rabbits are prone to get. Monuka honey is supposed to be the best for medical treatment.




      2
    1. “without bees we wouldn’t have most of our vegan foods”

      There are other bees that don’t make honey. They can pollinate too. The domesticated bee (European) is first exploited and then rationalized to feel good.




      12
      1. The statement “without bees we wouldn’t have most of our vegan foods” is correct. Most of our flowering commercial crops are pollinated by domesticated honey bees. True, in my little backyard produce garden, there are all kinds of pollinators — but there are not nearly enough to pollinate our crops. And both the domesticated and wild pollinators are in decline, which should be a matter of concern to us all.




        8
        1. Dr. J,
          Try cultivating mason bees. They are easy to raise, don’t sting, fabulous pollinators, native, and get me so much fruit I have limbs breaking every year.

          You were a great player, but I’m glad the Blazers beat you in the 76-77 championship. Our only NBA title.
          John S




          1
        2. Again… I’ll just say that I agree with Dr. Gregor’s article about this: http://www.satyamag.com/sept05/greger.html

          I’ll also remind people that NutritionFacts.org doesn’t promote a vegan diet or any vegetarian diet… it promotes evidenced based diet.

          when I am in restaurant or talking to people in general I usually say I’m vegan because it’s easier for them to understand my dietary preferences…
          When talking with other vegan I generally say I eat a “health promoting evidenced based diet with consists mostly of plants and whole foods”

          There are many shades of Veganism as there is people with faith today… for example:
          When an atheist becomes a “spiritual person” you would think more spiritual people would be happy about this new self discovery. But some would say… but he not a Christian so he’s still going to hell…. but then some other might also be also say being christian is not enough you need to also be baptists… and on and on and on…

          NO WONDER why people look at vegans and think they are crazy people!!

          Again… I’ll just say that I agree with Dr. Gregor’s article about this: http://www.satyamag.com/sept05/greger.html
          I think we harm the movement of people to going to a healthier lifestyle if it’s not in “perfect” vegan viewpoint.

          Here is the point of NutritionFacts.org – https://youtu.be/dduAAKzEH9Y




          2
          1. Ron, there are not many shades of veganism. Veganism was a term created by Donald Watson and it is clearly defined as a way of living that does not include the exploitation of fellow animals. Please don’t call yourself a vegan to others simply because you’re plant based. It’s inaccurate and confuses people on the fact that vegan is about ethics, not diet. And considering the animal rights movement is so important, it’s important not to confuse it.
            Veganism is not a religion, so your comparison of spirituality or religion is very misplaced. Further more, what would be a more accurate comparison would be a Christian correction someone calling themselves a Christian who did not believe in Christ. This is logic, not idealism.

            No one here has stated this website was used to or should be used to promote veganism. It is a clearly a science based website and is embraced as such. People going to a healthier lifestyle and veganism cross paths because the healthiest diet is a plant based one, so unfortunately vegan and plant based gets confused more often thanks to people like you. Don’t call a goat a cow and then accuse someone of being crazy for correcting you.

            And please, again, do not use the term by such an incredibly important movement where the concern of actual victims is involved, as a means to explain that you eat a mostly plant based diet. And then also don’t complain that you can’t call yourself a vegan when you don’t want to actually be a vegan. It’s simple. I think telling people is plant based will be easy enough for you… it’s just one extra word.




            4
    2. Ron, the honey industry is actually incredibly destructive to bees, killing millions annually. See this video for more info on that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0N8UYgMGDQ

      Some of the best ways we can support bees is by buying organic, not supporting GMO’s, growing organic, avoiding pesticides and herbicides and other environmental hazards, not supporting the honey industry, and planting plenty of flora as well as boycotting some of the main causes for deforestation such as the animal agriculture industry and palm oil industry.




      7
      1. I get plenty of bees in my garden and it’s very successful. I know others who grown their own food and do not have any issues with this. There are specific plants you can grown to attract bees. Also, if you’re not growing organic that will be an issue.




        3
        1. I’d also like to add that even if the honey industry wasn’t actually harmful to bees (please see above video), it’s silly to think people would have to buy honey to support bees. If no one bought honey, bees could still be bred to support large crops without stealing their honey which results in their death even without the purposeful annual killing. If it came down to it, our taxes would fund it if not the ridiculous honey industry. But we should really be focused on the issues that cause bee decline, unfortunately those issues are big business and they’re not stopping anytime soon without demand, so it’s up to us, the consumers, to make the right choices.




          7
  2. What about fever blisters on the outside of the mouth. I usually use tee tree oil to help dry them quickly. The negative is that it tends to dry out my skin during healing which leads to cracking and bleeding.




    1
    1. To David Ebert – I get the occasional eruption of a herpes virus blister on my mouth/nose area upon occasion. I don’t know if that’s the same as a fever blister. But as soon as I feel the tingle of a blistering event coming I use a triple antibiotic like Neosporin to dab on the site. I realize that herpes is a virus and antibiotic salve is for bacteria, but it does seem to work. Instead of a full blown blistering, eruption, crusting, and then healing of the sore (which often take a couple of weeks at best) the event goes away in just a few days. It really does seem to help.
      I think I might try honey next time to see if that does anything for me.
      Thanks to Dr. G as usual.




      3
      1. RBG

        I find with cold sores (herpes simplex), a lysine supplement (and vitamin c) every four hours at the first sign of tingling does the trick.
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3115841
        https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-237-lysine.aspx?activeingredientid=237&activeingredientname=lysine

        There is always a risk that strict vegetarians can become lysine deficient – I spend a lot of time in the Philippines and tempeh is virtually impossible to find, and lentils are difficult to find, so I occasionally get that cold sore tingling if I have not been eating enough beans. As I say supplemental lysine does the trick but it is better to get enough lysine in the diet from legumes etc in the first place.
        http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/protein#lys




        9
        1. Tom,

          Since you spend a lot of time in the Phillipines, have you tried eating Indian Gooseberries also known as Amla. This fruit seems to grow well at this location on the equator. I know Dr. Greger put up a few videos recently on Indian Gooseberries and that motivated me to go down to the local Indian (as in the country of India ) food store and I bought 8 packages of FROZEN Indian gooseberries. They taste pretty bad, but you can put up with the taste if you believe that at least 10 percent of what Dr.
          Greger reported on these berries is true. The bad taste is worth that ten percent. So, have you eaten these mysterious fruits?




          2
          1. Hi John

            No, I don’t think so. Of course, they may be called something different here and I wouldn’t necessarily recognise them by sight.

            However, I try to take amla powder every day. I put it in my rolled oats and berries breakfast and the berries tend to mask the amla taste. It costs about $45 Australian for a kilo so a spoonful every day works out quite cheap. I buy a supply every time I go back to Oz (if I remember)..
            https://www.ayurorganic.com.au/organic-amla-powder-100gm.html




            2
  3. No surprise on the mouth ulcer efficacy. I am aware of wound care nurses using honey laced dressings for skin ulcer management with good results. Thank you to the bees! Here is an example of a product that may be used. Thanks Dr. Greger and team.

    http://www.dermasciences.com/medihoney

    A proud and healthy monthly supporter of Nutrtitionfacts.org




    7
    1. It is worth noting that vegans aren’t required to apply honey to their canker sores just because there exists a study that shows it’s effective. Of course you always have something worthless to say on a plant-based website despite advocating for animal products whenever you can.




      19
    2. It’s an interesting question about whether insects are sentient (capable of feeling pain, aware of themselves as individuals). Ants seem to pass the mirror test, something that many of our fellow mammals don’t.

      If one is seeking to absolutely minimize one’s adverse effect on other living beings, there’s becoming a naked digambar monk, or suicide. Every vegan recognizes the compromises they make. Some of us extend the circle of creatures we seek to protect as far as we can, by avoiding beverages filtered through isinglass. Others argue that bivalve oysters are vegan.

      I know that my own lifestyle kills hundreds of insects every day, especially on the days I flea-dip my beloved dog. I try to minimize my impact, but I’m well aware that every time I eat, every time I fill my cars gas tank, there’s suffering involved. We cope.




      8
      1. I think what Darryl is getting at (at least I hope he is lol), is vegans do the very best they can given their circumstances to avoid exploiting, using and harming innocent sentient beings.

        It’s very easy to not eat animals and their secretions. It’s easy to not wear their skins. It’s easy to use toiletries that are not tested on animals and have no animal products in them.

        There will always be times when vegans cannot be 100%. And that is fine. There is no absolute. There is no perfect in a world with animals (insects, bugs etc etc) everywhere. But purposely being compliant in the exploitation, enslavement, abuse, torture and murder of innocent sentient beings is largely avoidable.




        12
      2. Darryl, there is no debate about oysters. Eating animals or their byproducts is not vegan. It’s not a matter of philosophy or debate. We don’t need to consume oysters to live but we do need to fill our gas tanks and care for flea-ridden animals, thus veganism being defined as doing what is possible a and practice.
        Stepping on a bug as you tread the earth or doing your best to live consciously in the industrialized world we were born into is a FAR CRY from supporting unnecessary acts of enslavement, torture, and murder.
        It’s also a speciesist belief that we humans must first understand another animal before respecting them as fellow sentient beings. I.e we don’t need to dissect someone to know it’s wrong to dissect them. And isn’t it great that we have every capability to rationally apply this respect :)

        I try to avoid the topic of speciesism and animal rights here, and stick to topic, but in cases like this I absolutely have to respond.

        Ps. If you’re interested, Gary Yourofsky discusses oysters and their anatomy and the way their nervous system works, I believe this was while appearing on Bite Size Vegan if you want to look it up.




        6
  4. Here is the really good news about honey. Put it on a fresh burn before water or ice or ointments or whatever are applied. I have been doing this for years. Here is what happens. The pain of the burn disappears within a minute. Really. And the burn heals about three times as quickly as an untreated or water/ice/ointment treated burn. I drop or pour the honey over the burn fully covering it. Clean up the edges where it may run over with a damp cloth. Leave the honey covering on for 20 minutes, and then rinse it off under a stream of cool (not cold) water. It is amazing how well this works.




    8
    1. Lauren, that is really interesting because I’ve heard from people (and have read claims about) the same thing from lavender oil! That’s really cool because Dr. Greger mentions it in this video. Interesting!




      2
  5. I remember Pat Boone the pop singer from the 50’s and 60’s used to advertise royal bee jelly as the elixir of life. I always just “blew” him off when I would hear these advertisements on radio. I noticed in the large health food stores that they sell some really expensive types of honey, I can’t remember the name of them, but they were a special type of honey found only in New Zealand. According to Mercola these special rare honeys are suppose to really be good for your health. Probably just another sales pitch. Speaking of “Coke Mercola” he has an article about the president of the American Heart Association having a non-fatal heart attack, and Mercola thinks that John Warner’s heart attack came from following the DASH diet and eating to many grains. Then Mercola turns around and pushes the idea that we should eat a lot of saturated fats. We live in an upside down world for sure. If you want to read about Mercola’s diagnosis of John Warner’s heart attack here is the link:

    https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/11/29/aha-president-suffers-heart-attack.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20171129Z1&et_cid=DM173431&et_rid=135707703




    4
    1. john – re your mention of the new zealand honey – it is manuka honey [ a tea tree found here and a close relative in australia ] it is claimed to have superior activity in wound bacterial stasis and general healing .that ,much greater than other plant derived honeys.it has a umf rating [ unique manuka factor ] as a quality guide . it appears that the presence of glyoxal. hydrogen peroxide and ?? sesquiterpenes provide the bacteriocidal activity and i guess the Aw factor in the reduction of water availability which inhibits microbial growth in such food products.eg-salami by the traditional method.




      4
      1. I used to get canker sores all the time, especially when I was under a lot of stress. Then my internist told me his dentist told him to stop using toothpaste with SLS in it (sodium laureth sulfate) to prevent canker sores. He recommended Peelu toothpaste and Pink Myrrh by Weleda. He was right. But if I ever get another, I’ll try the manuka honey I bought at the health food store. It was very expensive, so I don’t use it for cooking. Last year we had terrible brush fires here in SW Florida. One was burning so close to us that I got a bad sore throat from all the smoke and ash in the air. I licked manuka honey from a teaspoon, and again the next morning, and no more pain. At all.




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    2. John

      i don’t usually attach much weight to the speculations of internet marketers like Mercola but there is a fair bit of evidence that Manuka honey is effective therapeutically in some circumstances eg this recent review
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945400/

      As for his agenda driven speculations about Warner and his heart disease, I am not aware of any evidence that saturated fat consumption prevents or treats heart disease. On the contrary, Esselstyn, Ornish and Pritikin have all demonstrated that low fat WFPB diets can reverse heart disease. And studies like the landmark Finnish mental hospitals study and the Lyon diet heart study all showed significant reductions in CVD when saturated fat was replaced with unsaturated fats.

      As for the DASH diet which speculates that Warner was eating (males in Warner’s family on both sides apparently ll died young from heart disease so there may also be a genetic factor here), Dr G has a video on that

      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-to-treat-high-blood-pressure-with-diet/




      4
      1. Of course Internet speculator and marketer like Mercola is mostly right and TG reads his blog everyday in secret. And of course when it suits him, he will buy products from Mercola to treat his illnesses.




        0
        1. Jerry

          Do you really think that believing that internet marketers like Mercola, Axe and Hyman are “mostly right”, and that major reports on diet, nutrition and health by panels of world-class experts are 180 degrees wrong and “faked”, is a sensible thing to do? It sounds naive at best to me.

          And, no, I don’t read Mercola’s blog and nor have I ever bought anything from him. Why do you continually invent “facts” like these? It isn’t an honest. constructive or, for that matter, an entirely rational thing to do




          13
          1. Hi Liisa

            I am in two minds about Jerry. Yes, he has made it clear in a past post that his intention here is to attack Dr Greger and the NF website, and also to promote his dietary conspiracy theories. His obsessive dislike of veganism and vegetarianism is also painfully obvious. He has succeeded in making himself a regular pest. And I must admit that my first thought on seeing the title of this video was “I wonder if honey would clear up Jerry?”

            On the other hand, he does serve as a salutary example of what not to do. All that bitterness, irrationality and obvious fabrication of facts in his posts is the best argument against his opinions. His posts are almost perfect examples of poor reasoning, inability to understand evidence summaries and a habit of inventing convenient “facts”. I wonder if his dietary practices are the cause of what, frankly, appear to be real cognitive difficulties. For example

            1. He has said that he takes a lot of supplements. Supplements are by definition drugs and polypharmacy is associated with cognitive decline
            ‘There are a range of substances that can contribute to the development of cognitive impairment, some of which may mimic a more serious cognitive disorder and others that might progress to a full-blown dementia, while the majority of cases may likely fall somewhere in between.’
            https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/579841_11

            2. He has said that he consumes bone broth. Bone broth is generally accepted as having a high lead content (see Dr G-s recent video on this); Lead is a neurotoxin and normal lifetime lead exposure is already a concern. Increasing lead exposure through bone broth consumption may worsen the risk of neurological damage (SES = socioeconomic status):
            “The study presents the strongest evidence to date of the effects of cumulative lead dose on adult cognitive function independent of SES. The study population was relatively young and the average total duration of follow-up short (<30 months); these findings may represent the lower bound of the impact of cumulative lead dose on cognitive function of older adults."
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19752734

            3. He has of course also said that he consumes saturated fat every day and he aggressively states that dietary saturated fat is not harmful and that the 70+ years of evidence showing that it is, has been "faked" However, there is consistent evidence that saturated fat consumption is associated with cognitive decline
            "Higher intakes of saturated and trans fat since midlife, and lower polyunsaturated to saturated fat ratio, were each highly associated with worse cognitive decline "

            "Everyone in life has a purpose, even if it’s to serve as a bad example” ― Carroll Bryant

            Perhaps that is Jerry's purpose. He and his posts' constant irrationality remind us every day of the risks and dangers of excessive drug use, bone broth and saturated fat consumption even when they accompany a mainly WFPB diet which he claims that he eats.

            So, I m still not sure – ban his posts as tiresome, offensive nuisances or let him run free as an instructive example of how not to behave?




            3
            1. Sorry, I should have provided a link for that saturated fat and cognitive decline quote, Here it is

              http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/32/4/635.long

              Also, Jerry complains that WFPB advocates here are all militant vegans. I think many WFPB advocates are vegans but certainly not everybody. I am not although I wouldn’t eat animal foods more than three or four times a year. Dr Greger is, I think, a vegan but he promotes WFPB diets not vegan diets per se and recommends that people eating 100% plant diets ought to supplement.
              https://nutritionfacts.org/2011/09/12/dr-gregers-2011-optimum-nutrition-recommendations/

              On the other hand even meat eaters like Jerry think supplementation is advisable so there isn’t a lot of difference there.

              That said, not all WFPB advocates say that exclusively plant diets are required. For example, John Mackey, cofounder of the Whole Foods Market chain says that “from a health perspective” (ignoring ethical and environmental issues) “plants should make up at least 90% of your overall calorie intake”..
              http://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2017/12/The-Whole-Foods-Diet/Page-01




              1
              1. Tom,

                One interesting thing about Jerry Lewis writing on this forum is that, even though he is irritating, in a sense he is like the gadfly that Socrates spoke about or was it Plato, maybe Aristotle. Being that he is a gadfly he stimulates debate, which evokes strong scientific comeback from people like you. It is your counter arguments, insights, and humor that help to arm the rest of us in our daily lives as we come into contact with people who are evangelically motivated to spread the Paleo diet, Ketogenic Diet, and The Mercola Diet. I have run into people that want to debate these issues because they have read all of Hyman’s books, or read all of Mercola’s articles on his webpage. I don’t know about the rest of you folks but I get into these discussions with friends, relatives, and neighbors from time to time. But, having you Tom to point out articles and also to REMIND us of what Dr. Greger has pointed out really helps us to walk the line, maintain our health, and to be able to give a reason for our advocacy for a Whole Plant Food Diet. Thanks again for keeping us on our toes.




                2
                1. Thank you John. That is really very kind of you.

                  Yes. I try to stay positive and think of Jerry as a learning tool. He does prompt me ot go out and check the research more often than I might otherwise do.

                  Cheers




                  0
                  1. Thank you Jerry for prompting me to dig up 70 old flawed theories that should be put in the museum a long time ago.

                    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4513492/

                    EARLY STATIN TRIALS MAY HAVE BEEN FLAWED
                    Early statin trials reported significant mortality benefits, yet serious concerns have been raised in some studies regarding biased results, premature trial terminations, under reporting of adverse events, high numbers of patients lost to follow-up and oversight by the pharmaceutical company sponsor[10]. Heightened awareness within the scientific community regarding problems in clinical trial conduct and analysis – exemplified by the unreported risk of heart attacks in patients taking the pain killers Vioxx and Celebrex – led to new regulatory rules for clinical trials in 2005[11]. Curiously, statin trials conducted after 2005 have failed to demonstrate a consistent mortality benefit[10].

                    Utilizing combined endpoints may lead to an exaggeration of perceived benefit by assigning equal importance to disparate clinical events such as a hospital admission for angina and death from a heart attack[12,13]. Some have argued that there is a linear relation between low-density lipoprotein (LDL) levels and CHD events[14]. This analysis may be inaccurate because it combines different types of CHD events from diverse studies into one endpoint even though each study defines CHD events differently. A more meaningful analysis compares total mortality rates to LDL cholesterol levels. When we performed such an analysis on these same statin trials – those analyzed in reference 14 – we found no statistically significant relationship




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    3. I bought some Manuka honey…strong stuff. Costly. Tried using on my skin…guess what….STICKY. Might be good for a serous bandaged wound though.

      Pat Boone had a rep for never aging….till he died of course. Maybe royal jelly has some cred?




      0
  6. I recommend brushing your teeth within about 20 minutes after applying honey to your canker sore. Dental research has shown sugars turn to corrosive acid in 19 minutes.




    3
    1. it might be wise to wait a full hour after eating, to brush as brushing too soon can cause enable erosion. There’s a video on that here somewhere. Rinsing can help neutralize acids though.




      2
  7. Although I used to get canker sores all the time, since going WFPB, I haven’t had any. I’m wondering if anyone else has had or not had this experience.




    8
    1. WFPB-Liisa, Yes, I have had the same experience. Before going WFPB, I got them occasionally, maybe a few times a year. After going WFPB, I haven’t had a single one! Plant foods are powerful in so many ways. It’s hard to imagine why anyone would want to eat meat, eggs, or dairy products, when they are just the opposite!




      12
      1. Since going Whole plant food diet, I also noticed

        a great reduction in fever blisters, but, the thing that

        really amazes me is the IMPROVEMENT in my teeth

        and gums with very little brushing. I think my gut

        bacteria has changed to the point that I now have

        better quality bacteria in my mouth which improves

        my mouth and teeth health.




        8
  8. I find that an application of fresh aloe-Vera juice stops pain immediately and heals in a couple days, just needs 2 or 3 applications. I just cut a piece of leaf off my aloe-vera plant, squeeze the juice onto the sore.




    8
  9. This information makes me wonder if drinking chamomile tea with honey in it might sooth and help to heal esophageal conditions like Barrotts esophagus or any inflamed esophageal condition.




    3
  10. My Father had a very nasty cut on his Achilles tendon when a screen door closed on his heel and cut into him. The tendon itself became infected. Because tendon has virtually no blood supply, antibiotics were almost no use to him. He was eventually hospitalized, had surgery to cut out a portion of the tendon, and had a long road of recovery that last years and years. He almost had to have his foot amputated; he came very close. After suffering with this for years he moved to a different part of the country where he went to a wound care specialty clinic for the wound that kept breaking open over and over at the surgical site. The physician used a medicinal honey bandage where, for the first time in a decade, his wound healed. I am completely convinced of honey’s effectiveness.




    12
    1. Totally agreed, Felix. And as usual, one can get the benefits first hand through plants (the flowers) without exploiting animals. The honey industry is very cruel actually and kills millions of bees anually. I first learned about this from Bite Size Vegan (YouTube channel) video on honey. Awesome resource, that girl does her research!




      5
  11. Once again, no need to get the product second hand through animals, go for the flowers! Much more sustainable and cruelty free! Check out Bite Size Vegan’s YouTube video on honey for more info. Dr. Greger has actually been a guest on that channel! :)




    8
  12. I would appreciate if you would dive into/research the arginine effect on the herpes virus. It’s hard to eat 100% plant based when all of the satiating, protein packed plant foods are the same foods highest in arginine, which causes outbreaks. I know there are people out there who will say “oh it doesn’t really have an effect” or “the benefits far outweigh the outbreaks”, but I’m here to tell you arginine absolutely DOES cause outbreaks and they’re quite unbearable to live with unless outbreaks are far and few between. If I eat even just a handful of nuts, oats or dark chocolate more than a single day a week… I will 100% have an outbreak. Nuts, seeds, hummus, oats, nut-milks, even some citrus, all out if the question. I take mega doses of lysine supplements if I eat too many oats or if I feel an outbreak coming on. Lysine supplements are the only thing I’ve found that actually works to stop an outbreak completely if I catch it in time and shorten healing time if I start taking too late. Better than prescriptions even. Anyway, I know I rambled here but Dr. Greger if you could… please touch on this subject.
    Trust me I’m not making excuses… eating animal flesh honestly disgusts me (I don’t eat meat) and factory farms hurt my heart but I also can’t live everyday of my life with an outbreak because that hurts my heart too.




    3
    1. hi Anonymous, I read your post with interest and sympathy and I’m hoping Dr Greger does a video about this. In years past, every January it seemed that I suffered cold sores. Whether it had to do with nutrition, cold weather, or dry indoor heating, I don’t know – but lysine would prevent attacks if I started taking it before an outbreak. Since I changed to a wfpb diet though, I have not suffered an attack. From this link you can see the top sources for arginine are not plants, with the exception of some soy products. The first few pages are mostly seafood and meat. http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000089000000000000000-1.html? I post this not to debate, but only for reference if readers are interested. I do avoid nuts and chocolate in my own diet but for reasons other than argenine content, but eat oatmeal daily. Perhaps NF volunteers can shed some light on the topic.




      7
    2. Arginine and lysine compete for uptake into our cells.
      http://jn.nutrition.org/content/137/6/1662S.full

      It may be that the arginine/lysine ratio in your diet is a bit out of kilter. Certainly if my lysine intake falls, I too can get cold sores although early lysine supplementation usually stops the outbreak in its tracks.I find that if I eat tempeh, lentils, beans and beetroot regularly I don’t have a problem but if I am travelling and can’t access these foods easily I may get that cold sore ‘tingling’




      5
      1. Thanks TG! That explains a lot – maybe the inbalance of arginine in my case was brought on in part by the Christmas turkey and pecan dressing of years ago. ( long since swapped for lentil loaf, yams and sprouts! )




        5
      2. Thanks Tom for that information on beet roots. I always eat beet roots, just because they are suppose to be good for you. Glad to know that they can prevent cold sores. You are the smartest guy on nutrition on the internet. Keep up the good work.




        6
  13. Any nutrition facts on MCT oil? I’m getting my dad some, he has Parkinson’s. I thought it would help with brain function and energy levels.
    Thanks




    1
    1. You might find these relevant

      https://nutritionfacts.org/2013/08/29/treating-parkinsons-disease-with-diet/
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/what-about-coconuts-coconut-milk-and-coconut-oil-mcts/

      However, I don’t think that there are any good studies of MCT oils and Parkinson’s. The hoopla seems to stem mainly from hype and anecdotal reports. These may or may not be reliable since the lack of controls and possible placebo effects and/or chance may play a role. There was a review of evidence regarding nutrition and Parkinson’s a gfew years ago, that you might find interesting

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945400/




      7
  14. Great vid Dr. G!

    I used to get canker sores monthly.

    Every since I removed DAIRY years ago, I have no ZERO natural occurrences. Only time I get one is if bite my cheek. But that makes sense since biting your cheek and consuming DAIRY both cause trauma to the site.

    I believe Dr. G even mentioned the connection in the past whereby dairy proteins cause immune response and attack the mucosal lining of the mouth.

    Does anyone recall this who could provide the link?




    6
  15. Something I’ve noticed… There’s many different types of people here but I’m going to comment on the two opposite ends of the spectrum… vegans (not plant based, two different things entirely) and those adamantly defending an omnivorous diet. You might notice how the two different sides react. From what I’ve seen here and in general, when those adamantly defending an omnivorous diet are confronted by scientific results that do not support their views, they blatantly overlook and even deny the science presented in front of them, even when it is thorough and at a point where it is irrefutable. On the other hand, while we vegans are luckier in that the science supports a cruelty free diet, when presented with the findings that promote the use of an animal product, such as honey being proven to have healing potential, we don’t get angry and deny the science in front of us. But we might explain why we should still avoid this as a medicine since veganism is based on ethics, but I guess even then we’re lucky because there’s always a cruelty free alternative and it’s always the plants the animals first consume. Anyways though, after dealing with the dairy promoters and now seeing this video on honey, I saw a profound difference in reaction (from what I’ve seen) between these two different types of people and I think it’s pretty relevant to note.

    As for the infamous Jerry who had accused this site as being one meant to promote veganism, this video alone proves them wrong (not that it needed proving in the first place).




    12
    1. Took a long drive and a walk in what passes as a “wilderness area” around here. Problem was the hunters were out in force….orange everywhere. Some dudes from Michigan had gotten a deer and had blood all over their tailgate and the cart they used to get the deer out of the woods. The hunters also were hunting pheasant…rabbit…doves. It was a warm sunny day….for the hunters at least.

      Not as bad as hunting season in some western states…where you’d really want to get out of the woods when “buck fever” hits.

      Maybe 50 years ago I was into vegetarianism/solar etc…..still don’t hunt…eat mostly veggies.

      Would like to remind people on this forum that they live in a country that promotes war world-wide….think about what the people in Syria think about vegetarianism when they can’t get food of any type…not to mention shelter.

      People on this forum should think about the kind of people they live around.




      1
      1. Norm, I’m failing to find any relevance or point in your comment. I can only assume, sifting through your words, that you’re trying to say that starving countries would think vegetarians and vegans were silly? Please do educate yourself. This is a science based website, it’s about nutrition, so I try not to bring up animal rights too often, but when I run into things like this, I kind of have no choice. First, peace begins on your plate… it is hypocritical at best to wish for peace while being the demand to incredible violence. If people respected life, there would be less war and violence amongst men.
        Second, I think all people should be concerned about a healthy diet and one that does not cause disease, for both themselves and their loved ones.
        Lastly, animal agriculture is extremely harmful to people in third world countries. Overall, it is the leading cause of deforestation. The animals are stored on their land, the GMO crops used to feed these animals are grown on their land, and the water in already water deprived places, is taken from this land and used to water the GMO crops to feed the animals who are eventually sent to the U.S and other countries to undergo more torture in their already horrifically miserable lives. Animal agriculture is a huge epidemic in the issue of world hunger. So I would imagine that people of many different countries would think quite highly of veganism and vegetarianism. Not to mention that since the beginning of human history, wars have taken place over resources… also something to consider.




        7
    2. S –

      I think I understand where you’re coming from now… obviously from your posts you care deeply about animals and the ethics of veganism. That said, I think as we are seeing a trend with in the media with more people becoming “vegan” and it’s not necessarily for the animal ethics. For some it’s purely for the health benefits of not ingesting meat products. Hence why you are seeing more products in supermarkets labeled “vegan” but that also contain GMOs or products in general that don’t contain animal products in them but also might be unhealthy to consume (ie: vegan processed meats/vegan hamburgers patties, etc).

      In general what I see for the future of veganism (as it becomes more trendy) is a “watered down” version of the ethics derived original version of which it come from. I’m not saying that’s a good thing. But I am saying that for if there a portion of a vegan lifestyle that is healthy for the masses, perhaps, even for just the sake of making ordering food at a restraunt easier or buying food in a store more clear, that a label of “vegan” might not be so bad even though it technically might not be so correct.

      In general I think more people are concerned with their personal health and what effects their health vs the ethics of killing many insects while driving down a highway in a car or simply walking on grass.

      That said… I think if a person chooses to fight the good fight for maintaining purity in the original meaning of the term Vegan that is totally fair and they can pursue that with all gusto.




      0
      1. Ron, the way everything is discussed on this board is not about what to eat for your best health, and eating vegan is possibly one although there are a number of drawbacks but that’s a different discussion – but it is veganism as in religion albeit a fanatic one, where no other religion is tolerated. Eating only WFPB is a disguise to make everybody a vegan. Any mention of eating animal foods will be met with insults and harsh language and call for censorship. There is nothing wrong to admit that one is vegan – in fact there is a whole vegan society or group. But let’s not disguise in the name of sciences to promote veganism.




        0
        1. You are just making stuff up again Jerry.

          Have you missed all the scientific citations in the videos? Are you ignoring the fact that it is your repeated assertions that evidence you don’t like is bogus and faked, your personal insults and name calling and your misrepresentation of the facts that attract criticism? Not the fact that you report that you eat small amounts of animal food.

          The traditional Okinawan diet contained a small amount of animal foods (about 4%) but i don’t recall anyone here (except you and Stephen) describing it with “insults and harsh language and call for censorship”. It is your insults, fabrications and ridiculous assertions (like veganism is a religion, 70+ years of evidence has been “faked’) that offend people




          7
        2. Jerry, SORRY–you are wrong! You have not read enough on this topic.

          WFPB is NOT veganism. WFPB is a means of eating healthily and BASED ON THE SCIENCE–whole foods, plant-based, with a minimum of animal foods. I am not a vegan; I am WFPB. Vegans eschew leather handbags, shoes, furniture, and clothing. There is nothing stopping a WFPB eater from using leather shoes, furniture, or clothing. Eating WFPB is based on SCIENCE–NOT RELIGION.

          The proof that this site allows other opinions is proven by your existence in this forum. YOU propound YOUR religion of saturated fat and animal consumption and sadly, the forum owners do not prohibit you from the forum.




          3
      2. Hi, Ron, Perhaps it goes without saying, but people come at their eating lifestyle from different initial motivations. I came for health reasons but became concerned about animals as I became more aware of animal food industries.

        My son, who had to kill a chicken at a friend’s home for their mutual meal at around age 12 or 13, said he would never eat animal products again and became a vegan, but now has become somewhat concerned with health secondarily at age 28 as he sees how this lifestyle can affect health.




        3
  16. I’ve suffered from canker sores since I was a child taking saxophone. They’re horrible. Take an uncoated aspirin tablet and lay it right on the sore. Usually finishes it off in a day. The best prevention is to not consume dairy, which I only discovered when I was 60 years old. Also, smoking tobacco prevents canker sores. I took up smoking when I was 18 and never again had a sore until I quit at age 30. Then they came back and about two years later I started smoking again and they went away. They think it is the nicotine, so vaping would be recommended to keep the cancer away.




    1
    1. Allen, couldn’t you just try topical application of nicotine? Interestingly, you can get nicotine out of nightshade vegetables especially bell peppers (I thin especially red)… not sure that would help though but it has other benefits.




      4
  17. I saw an update of the Daily Dozen app today. For a split second, I thought that Dr G is adding coconut to make it Daily Thirteen. But sigh! it’s the same old same old and he only updated for some certificates.




    0
  18. TG – Just wanted to make a quick comment that I very much appreciate your thoughtful, educated, and sophisticated posts on this site. There are countless times that I find myself thinking “Thank goodness Tom is speaking up” or “I so agree”. I appreciate the time you take to gather your thoughts and post and share them here. There are others on this site – who are thoughtful and supportive – that I regularly look forward to hearing from. Despite a couple of flea-like irritants the community here is just great. So thank you for your regular contributions.
    Thanks to Dr. G and staff for your solid foundation and pursuit of science.




    2
    1. TG – I would like to extend my thanks to you for standing up to protect Big Pharma and Big Foods by throwing insults at critics everyday from dawn to late night.




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