How to Avoid Lectin Poisoning

How to Avoid Lectin Poisoning
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How to properly cook beans.

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

In the 1800s, a compound was discovered in castor beans, which we would come to know as the first of a class of lectin proteins—natural compounds found throughout the food supply, but concentrated in beans, whole grains, and certain fruits and vegetables. Every decade or two, in the popular literature, and the medical literature, a question is raised whether dietary lectins are causing disease. It’s easy to raise hysteria about lectins. After all, that first one, found back in 1889, went by the name ricin, known to be “a potent homicidal poison”, used by the Kremlin to assassinate anti-Communist dissidents—or by rogue chemistry professors, for that matter. And, ricin is a lectin. Thankfully, however, “many lectins are non-toxic, such as those [found in] tomatoes, lentils,…and other common foods.” And, even the ones that are toxic—like those found in kidney beans—are utterly destroyed by proper cooking.

But, you can’t eat raw kidney beans. If you do, you’ll be doubled over with nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea within hours, thanks to the lectins, which would otherwise be destroyed by adequate cooking. How do you even eat raw kidney beans, though? I mean, the only way they’re sold uncooked is as dried beans, and they’re like little rocks. Well, in the first reported outbreak, “an impromptu supper was made” with a bag of beans dumped in a skillet, and soaked in water overnight, but never cooked. You can’t even just throw dried beans in a slow cooker. Dried kidney beans have to be boiled. Kidney beans should be soaked in water for at least five hours, and then boiled for at least ten minutes. Ten minutes? Kidney beans wouldn’t be done in just ten minutes.  Exactly. Yeah, cooking presoaked beans for a couple minutes can destroy the lectins, but it takes like an hour of boiling before they’re edible, before you could, you know, flatten them easily with a fork. So, the lectins would be long gone before they’re palatable.

Without presoaking, it takes 45 minutes in a pressure cooker to get rid of all the lectins, but an hour to make kidney beans edible. So basically, “[i]t appears that cooking beans to the point where they might be considered edible is more than sufficient to destroy virtually all [lectin] activity.” Even 12 hours at 65 Celsius won’t do it, though, which is like the temperature of a hot cup of tea. But, you can tell they weren’t done—still firm and rubbery, though you can imagine someone putting those in like some “raw” vegetable salad, and that could make people sick. And, it has, with dozens of incidents reported—all of which could have been “easily prevented” had the beans been soaked overnight, drained, and then boiled for at least ten minutes. Or, if they would have just eaten canned beans. Canned beans are cooked beans; the canning process is a cooking process. “None of the confirmed incidents [were] due to canned beans.”

We’ve known since the early 60s that “conventional cooking methods [can] effectively destroy” lectins in beans, and therefore, “it is possible to ignore any human…problems that could be associated with lectins from properly processed legumes.” So yeah, you can show that feeding lectins to rats isn’t good for them, or to cell tissues in a petri dish. But, in these articles that claim dietary lectins may be “disease causing toxicants”, the only negative effect they can find on humans are those raw and undercooked kidney bean incidents. Do dietary lectins cause diseases of affluence? How about we test that hypothesis? So, they “performed a trial on 24 domestic pigs”, and a paleo-pig diet beat out cereal-based swine feed. Could they not find any people willing to eat paleo?

In response to one such review of the evidence, based largely on laboratory rodents, one peer-reviewer cautioned that we should not draw conclusions about the involvement of dietary lectins in the cause “of diseases without definite and positive proof.” That was written more than a quarter century ago, and such clinical proof has yet to materialize. What we do have, however, is ever-growing evidence that legumes—beans, split peas, chickpeas, and lentils—are good for us, associated with a longer lifespan, a significantly lower risk of colorectal cancer (a leading cancer killer), considered part of “a natural, cost-effective, and free from side effects solution for the prevention and treatment of [type 2 diabetes].” Randomize people to eat five cups of lentils, chickpeas, split peas, and navy beans a week, and you can see the same benefits in terms of weight loss and metabolic benefits that you do with caloric-restriction portion control. And, the whole lectins theory is based on lectin-containing foods being inflammatory.

But, prescribe four servings a week of legumes, packed with lectins, and get a significant drop in C-reactive protein—in fact, a 40% drop of this leading indicator of systemic inflammation, eating more beans.

The purported “plant paradox” is that on one hand, whole healthy plant foods are the foundations of a good diet, yet we supposedly need to avoid beans, and whole grains, and certain fruits and vegetables, because of the evil lectins. But, if you look at the actual science, all whole plant foods are associated with decreased mortality—meaning the more of them people ate, the longer people tended to live. And, this includes lectin-filled foods, such as whole grains and beans. So, maybe there’s really no paradox, after all.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Kristina DeMuth. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

In the 1800s, a compound was discovered in castor beans, which we would come to know as the first of a class of lectin proteins—natural compounds found throughout the food supply, but concentrated in beans, whole grains, and certain fruits and vegetables. Every decade or two, in the popular literature, and the medical literature, a question is raised whether dietary lectins are causing disease. It’s easy to raise hysteria about lectins. After all, that first one, found back in 1889, went by the name ricin, known to be “a potent homicidal poison”, used by the Kremlin to assassinate anti-Communist dissidents—or by rogue chemistry professors, for that matter. And, ricin is a lectin. Thankfully, however, “many lectins are non-toxic, such as those [found in] tomatoes, lentils,…and other common foods.” And, even the ones that are toxic—like those found in kidney beans—are utterly destroyed by proper cooking.

But, you can’t eat raw kidney beans. If you do, you’ll be doubled over with nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea within hours, thanks to the lectins, which would otherwise be destroyed by adequate cooking. How do you even eat raw kidney beans, though? I mean, the only way they’re sold uncooked is as dried beans, and they’re like little rocks. Well, in the first reported outbreak, “an impromptu supper was made” with a bag of beans dumped in a skillet, and soaked in water overnight, but never cooked. You can’t even just throw dried beans in a slow cooker. Dried kidney beans have to be boiled. Kidney beans should be soaked in water for at least five hours, and then boiled for at least ten minutes. Ten minutes? Kidney beans wouldn’t be done in just ten minutes.  Exactly. Yeah, cooking presoaked beans for a couple minutes can destroy the lectins, but it takes like an hour of boiling before they’re edible, before you could, you know, flatten them easily with a fork. So, the lectins would be long gone before they’re palatable.

Without presoaking, it takes 45 minutes in a pressure cooker to get rid of all the lectins, but an hour to make kidney beans edible. So basically, “[i]t appears that cooking beans to the point where they might be considered edible is more than sufficient to destroy virtually all [lectin] activity.” Even 12 hours at 65 Celsius won’t do it, though, which is like the temperature of a hot cup of tea. But, you can tell they weren’t done—still firm and rubbery, though you can imagine someone putting those in like some “raw” vegetable salad, and that could make people sick. And, it has, with dozens of incidents reported—all of which could have been “easily prevented” had the beans been soaked overnight, drained, and then boiled for at least ten minutes. Or, if they would have just eaten canned beans. Canned beans are cooked beans; the canning process is a cooking process. “None of the confirmed incidents [were] due to canned beans.”

We’ve known since the early 60s that “conventional cooking methods [can] effectively destroy” lectins in beans, and therefore, “it is possible to ignore any human…problems that could be associated with lectins from properly processed legumes.” So yeah, you can show that feeding lectins to rats isn’t good for them, or to cell tissues in a petri dish. But, in these articles that claim dietary lectins may be “disease causing toxicants”, the only negative effect they can find on humans are those raw and undercooked kidney bean incidents. Do dietary lectins cause diseases of affluence? How about we test that hypothesis? So, they “performed a trial on 24 domestic pigs”, and a paleo-pig diet beat out cereal-based swine feed. Could they not find any people willing to eat paleo?

In response to one such review of the evidence, based largely on laboratory rodents, one peer-reviewer cautioned that we should not draw conclusions about the involvement of dietary lectins in the cause “of diseases without definite and positive proof.” That was written more than a quarter century ago, and such clinical proof has yet to materialize. What we do have, however, is ever-growing evidence that legumes—beans, split peas, chickpeas, and lentils—are good for us, associated with a longer lifespan, a significantly lower risk of colorectal cancer (a leading cancer killer), considered part of “a natural, cost-effective, and free from side effects solution for the prevention and treatment of [type 2 diabetes].” Randomize people to eat five cups of lentils, chickpeas, split peas, and navy beans a week, and you can see the same benefits in terms of weight loss and metabolic benefits that you do with caloric-restriction portion control. And, the whole lectins theory is based on lectin-containing foods being inflammatory.

But, prescribe four servings a week of legumes, packed with lectins, and get a significant drop in C-reactive protein—in fact, a 40% drop of this leading indicator of systemic inflammation, eating more beans.

The purported “plant paradox” is that on one hand, whole healthy plant foods are the foundations of a good diet, yet we supposedly need to avoid beans, and whole grains, and certain fruits and vegetables, because of the evil lectins. But, if you look at the actual science, all whole plant foods are associated with decreased mortality—meaning the more of them people ate, the longer people tended to live. And, this includes lectin-filled foods, such as whole grains and beans. So, maybe there’s really no paradox, after all.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Kristina DeMuth. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Doctor's Note

Plant paradox? If you missed it, that was the subject of my last video; check out Dr. Gundry’s The Plant Paradox is Wrong. There’s even evidence (*spoiler alert*) to suggest lectins may be good for you. Stay tuned for Are Lectins in Food Good or Bad for You?

Speaking of paradoxes, check out The Hispanic Paradox: Why do Latinos Live Longer?

What about beans, beans, the musical fruit? See my blog post, Beans and Gas: Clearing the Air.

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

205 responses to “How to Avoid Lectin Poisoning

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  1. If this is your first video, or first week of Nutrition Facts exposure, please do read the doctor’s notes and note all the supporting/relevant videos he lists there. Also note that the archive is fully searchable and that all sources are listed for YOU to be able to read the reports yourself and answer many of your other questions.

    There is no prohibition against discussion of dissenting ideas and positions but please realize that this site is about the nutrition facts as found by the latest research, and OFTEN these things will be somewhat different from mainstream and popular belief and thoughts. Also that facts are subject to change depending upon findings, and that nutritional research is a difficult task for many reasons.

    Most common questions and conflicts on very many subjects have been previously addressed and can be found, along with the supporting studies and discussion if one will simply take a few minutes to look for them.

    We are glad to have you here with open mind and ready palate. WFPB works for so many of us, and works well! We hope to support your transition and create a tide of change. Thanks for stopping in.




    60
    1. What about lectins in Goji berries? We soaked the dried berries, threw out the water. I saw Dr Gundy’s post on how dangerous goji berries are. Sincerely, Tracie




      0
      1. Tracie the point of much of the message is that Gundy’s just says stuff. No research to back it up. I reviewed golgi berries for a class I was taking. I don’t recall any research saying golgi berries were dangerous. But now that you bring this to my attention it makes sense why a friend asked about that. Yikes.




        12
        1. @WRPBRunner–
          Dr. Steven Gundry is a creature of media marketing, and first advertised his beliefs in popular publications for nutrition, where readers found his expensive food supplements nearly miraculous (to believe the advertising copy). In even that formative period, according to his lectins thesis, Gundry attacked Goji berries specifically. Somehow, it was left to the reader to connect Gundry, the “successful” cardiologist, and Gundry, the nutritional expert.

          The Steven Gundry of today, in both nutritional plan and best-selling book, are mighty media and marketing phenomena, although that media success typically means little, in itself. As Dr. Greger and others delight in pointing out, any authority should be derived from sound, peer-reviewed scientific research, not marketing numbers. As a species of noise, smoke and mirror effects with a theater audience, that leaves Dr. Gundry’s “The Plant Paradox” prototypical junk science, extremely popular among those without sufficient information.

          Eventually, theses like Gundry’s collapse to a hard core of followers who find the propositions too appealing to surrender, and they proceed as a cult (a group unified about a core belief, but without much evidence). They join those who, on weighing their own meager information, believe NASA did not visit the lunar surface in 1969, but staged the event in a large aircraft hangar or studio. Or those who still believe the world is flat, as far as they can see. But a cult belief need not be unpopular– the world still appears flat, and yes, even European church authorities once attempted to silence Galileo for daring ideas contradicting “obvious truths” about the universe. And so it goes with lowly Goji berries.




          13
          1. The thing is–it is so offensive. In medicine we have come so far with the belief that practitioners should be practicing evidence based medicine. When we have these charlatans mucking up the information it confuses patients.




            5
          2. It’s interesting that Dr. Greger and Dr. Gundry both worked at Loma Linda. Dr. Greger is a general practitioner/primary care physician with an interest in nutrition I think whereas Dr. Gundry is a transplant specialist with expertise in immunology…quite a difference. Dr. Gundry makes incredible claims about healing the incurable in a wide variety of cases whereas Dr. Greger cites research. Isn’t it unusual for Dr. Greger not to have more respect for a fellow Loma Linda colleague?

            I’m not a scientist but I do have a Ph.D in the social sciences. I’ve seen contradictory research in many fields and this has always been the case. Lots of conflicting & contradictory findings are ignored by the scientific community until the minority opinion becomes the dominant opinion and there is a Thomas Kuhn “paradigm” shift. Until someone shows me that Dr. Gundry’s claims regarding the results he’s obtained with incurable patients is false, I think his approach is worth a try.




            3
          3. I started gradually (for me that is 90%) plant based diet a week before a friend handed me The Plant Paradox. It was an easy switch and thus I am in the process of experimenting. After decades on a relatively healthy diet (however I did eat grass-fed animal products) I wanted to see whether my cholesterol levels will change as they are extremely high with all other markers now within so-called normal range. That will take 6-8 more weeks before re-testing.

            Re The Plant Paradox: my conclusion is (1) some people have lectin sensitivity and (2) gut issues do not change easily for some people. This has been validated by people I am observing who have followed many diets throughout the decades with little change in symptoms. Now on The Plant Paradox diet their symptoms change within days. Science does not always keep up with experience. Whether these people will heal their gut sufficiently to once again introduce lectin-rich foods is also an experiment. I’ll cross that bridge myself in 6-8 weeks.

            What I value about this cite is I am able to educate myself to be able to follow a healthy, vital lifestyle and still be open to experimenting what I need at any given time. The issue to me appears to be when a theory is taken to the extreme and we toss everything we know and have learned out the window and follow blindly.

            Let’s not condemn a theory, or even science’s conclusions (as we know that changes over the decades). Rather let’s be responsible individuals about our own health.




            3
      2. Tracie, Gundry wants you to buy his high priced fruit powders instead of eating your berries.
        Don’t fall for it! Keep eating the real food instead of expensive processed products.




        13
      3. That is nonsense. Goji berry has been used in Chinese medicine for thousand years as one of the most important herb medicines. It aids blood circulation, and helps maintaining eye sight. It has high antioxidant content, and the ORAC value is even higher than that of blueberry. Dr. G has some videos on Goji berry. Check them out on Youtube.




        4
        1. according to “Oxygen Radical Absorbance Capacity (ORAC) of Selected Foods, Release 2.0 (2010) ”

          Blackberry 5905, bludeberry 4669, wild blueberry 9621, goji berry 3290

          even sweet cherries at 3747 were higher than goji




          0
          1. Dr G’s video says Goji 120 vs. blueberry 37. Those were dried Goji vs. dried blueberries. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgp4_N2Sjrg.  I assume that is something similar to ORAC score. There are different measurements on ORAC scores over different plant species. I don’t know what kind of method they used in the data you provided as compared to Dr. G’s reference. No matter what the actual value is for Goji berry, it is a super food. Also check on this: Goji Berries, A Tonic Herb and Superfruit Variety  In the region where Goji berry plant grown, there are more centenarians than other regions of China. The local people there drink Goji tea everyday. Its certainly not poisonous as some people claim.

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            | | | | Goji Berries, A Tonic Herb and Superfruit Variety

            Goji berries are the red-orange fruits of certain Lycium species, highly revered as a major Chinese tonic herb f…
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            1
          2. Also, plant ORAC score depends where your samples come from. I remember an article in which Indian gooseberry plant grown in Europe has a ORAC score much much smaller than the plant grown in its home country–India. The same can be said for Goji berry vs. blueberry.




            2
  2. Red Kidney beans are one of my favorite beans! (I also use a lot of black beans) I never knew they had the most lectins in their raw state. I use the canned ones, so I assume they’re fully cooked. I’ll start checking that they can be mushed easily to confirm their fully cooked state. I learn something new from every new video on this website. Looking forward to the next video. Thanks, Dr G, for all your efforts.




    14
    1. I buy a lot of canned beans, and red kidneys are one of my favourites. Would it be true that mushy beans would also be more easily digestible?
      Perhaps I should “cook” again the canned beans I buy, which tend to be on the firm side (not at all like a fast-food bean burrito).




      1
      1. Hi, Mike Quinoa. Canned beans should be sufficiently cooked to destroy any toxic lectins. If you prefer them “mushier,” however, you are welcome to cook them a bit more. You could also buy dried beans, soak overnight, drain and cook them yourself to your preferred texture. As long as they are boiled for at least 10 minutes, they will be safe to eat. I hope that helps!




        2
      1. While energy costs are significant for manufacturers, that is probably not a primary factor in cooking interval. Instead, cooking duration rests on manufacturing and process limits– the effect of steaming cans of beans for an additional five minutes could result in significant loss of container integrity for significant numbers of cans. They are used, after all, as a marvelously compact pressure cooker.




        2
      2. It only requires 10 minutes of boiling to kill the lectins in kidney beans. They have to get that much and a lot more in a pressure cooking situation, such as commercial canning.




        2
    2. I also eat beans with most of my meals and sometimes have sprouted lentils. What is your opinion or what does fresearch say about sprouting verses cooking lentils?

      thanks,




      4
    3. Most foods have Lectins, some more than others, but it’s not the number but the type that counts. When you eat a food containing protein lectins that are incompatible with your blood type antigen, the lectins can attach to the walls of the digestive tract, initiate inflammation and even penetrate the gut lining and escape into the circulation causing further congestion, inflammation and disease.
      Blood type A for instance finds Black beans beneficial but Kidney beans have a lectin that can cause a decrease in insulin production, which is often a factor in obesity and diabetes.
      Do you know your blood type? You should, cuts through all this talk about what is best and what is good for you.
      Buy a copy of ” Eat Right 4 Your Type” by Dr Peter J. D’Adamo (4 bood types 4 diets) – I found this on the internet for a very reasonable price and it makes everything else seem simple-minded.
      Also has his own website.




      2
        1. Hello Sandra:
          That paper says that there is no any clincial study about Blood type and diet published before the date of the paper. I doesn´t mean there is no scientific evidence. I been working with blood type diet with my patients for more than 12 years and more than 60.000 persons and I always get surprised how accurate it is.




          0
      1. There is no science behind the blood type diet. I bought his first book many years ago when it first came out. Not only did many of the foods for my “type” not work for me, but to date I have food sensitivities (proven by testing) to many of them. He also has a product line for each blood type, beware of this. I missed out for years, on many foods that benefit me because I bought into the blood type diet along time ago.




        6
  3. The paradox is that the same old high fat, high protein, low carb trope keeps being recycled under various guises despite the vast body of the research to the contrary indicating that plant based nutrition is markedly superior to human health when compared and in proportion to diets containing foods of animal origins.

    Mere industry shilling seems insufficient to explain this phenomena. Dr. McDougall declaration must be true. “People love to hear ‘good news’ about their bad habits.”




    22
      1. Black bean, red bean, pearl barley, lentil, chickpea, mung bean, black rice, red rice, sweet rice, soybean, millet. I use 7-8 items, soak the mixture overnight, and drain the water in the morning, and then cook 15 minutes with a pressure cooker (or any cooker if you don’t have pressure cooker). And put some dates,apricots and raisins when it is done.




        16
              1. Yes. For breakfast, I add some berries or grapes, For lunch and dinner, I have greens or broccoli or other vegetables such as tomatoes, eggplants, celery, asparagus, etc.




                6
          1. Hi, I used to cook for 20 min. after the water is boiled. Than I found that it is too long, 15 min. would do it. When you cook it for too long, the beans would become too mushy, and i assume the GI would be too high, causing more insulin spike which is not what i want. Its my 2 cent opinion. My fasting blood glucose is 87, down from 95 a year ago. I don’t know the peak reading (2 h. after meal), but I assume it is fine too. Hope this will help.




            3
          2. Cooking at pressure (255 °F) would be expected to considerably reduce time to denature proteins like lectins, so I would expect them to be inactivated by any of the following cooking times from Lorna Sass’s great WFPB pressure cooking books. Presoaked, time at pressure (venting steam), quick release:18 min: garbanzo, fava; 14 min: flageolet; 12 min: cannellini, borlotto, great northern, red kidney, soy beans; 10 min: lima; 9 minutes: adzuki, black; 8 min: navy; 7 minutes: anasazi, lima, pinto. Unsoaked, time at pressure: 12 min: French (green) lentils, mung, 10 min: brown lentils, split peas, pigeion peas; 6 min: red lentils. Cooking any further is mostly when one wants a mushier texture than al dente.




            6
          3. @ B’Healthy—–
            Have you considered slow-cooking your beans in a crock pot? The transformation from regular, pot-based booking to slow-cooking is a marvelous improvement in taste. For me, at least, it has been such an improvement, I actually look forward to eating “navy” or “great northern beans” without any spices– each bean variety creates its own delicious, and completely satisfying flavor that no spice can improve.

            Slow cooking confers other advantages, like safety. Like you, I had used the stove-top approach to beans, but found the process dangerous because I could not take the time to hover over the stove, checking progress. In my pre-vegan days, all-consuming work-related distractions actually melted an aluminum sauce pot used to boil eggs for breakfast.

            Although a newly-purchased, gleaming aluminum pressure cooker promised to shorten cooking time, my rapid transition to a healthier diet almost immediately precluded aluminum in pots and other utensils, so my new pressure cooker lies unused, in a closet. Meanwhile, my experience with blowing the lid on my phenolic (?) plastic—based pressure cooker, led me to drop all approaches that are sensitive and critical.

            The sudden release of pressure from kitchen duties has been dramatic– I can throw vegetables into a pot and walk away, checking only every 30 minutes to one hour. Provided vegetables have just enough water, and I remember to check as they near the end of the cooking interval, slow cooking has been a great improvement in my nutritional profile, and led to all sorts of beneficial discoveries about taste.




            2
            1. alphaa10, I believe you still need to boil kidney beans 10 minutes before slow cooking, to kill the lectins. I think other beans are OK without the extra boiling.




              3
          4. B’Healthy,

            without presoaking, it usually takes 45 minutes in a pressure cooker to get rid of all the lectins, but an hour to make kidney beans edible. So basically, “it appears that cooking beans to the point where they might be considered edible is more than sufficient to destroy virtually all [lectin] activity.”

            I would stick to the rule that: “cooking beans to the point where they might be considered edible is more than sufficient to destroy virtually all [lectin] activity.” Maybe your p. cooker is more effective than the others? Maybe you could also start to pre-soak your beans if you don’t already.

            Hope this helps,

            Moderator Adam P.




            0
      1. Black bean, red bean, pearl barley, lentil, chickpea, mung bean, black rice, red rice, sweet rice, soybean, millet. I use 7-8 items, soak the mixture overnight, and drain the water in the morning, and then cook 15 minutes with a pressure cooker (or any cooker if you don’t have pressure cooker). And put some dates,apricots and raisins when it is done.




        0
    1. Hi Changguni, Thanks for your comment. I am one of the volunteer moderators. Your comment is an additional experiential support that beans are good for us. Thanks Dr Greger for this video.




      4
      1. Thank Dr. Greger for this and previous videos. When I watched Dr. Gundry’s video a few days ago, I hoped that somebody would make a video to debunk this false claims. Then Dr G spoke out on the truth. Dr. G is my hero. I read his book “How not to die” and watch every video he makes. I used to have high blood pressure (150/90), after changed my diet several years ago, my BP dropped to around 125-130/75-80. I take 2 table spoons of flax seeds daily, and eat mostly plant based whole foods.




        16
    2. I also eat beans at every meal along with at least 3 servings of whole grains per day as part of my WFP diet (no “-based”!). At age 70, I also take no medication and my blood tests are all fine. In addition to diet, I exercise several hours a day, which I think helps stay young. And don’t forget mental stimulation. Use it or lose it.




      13
      1. Hi, Nice to hear that you are also healthy by being a follower of Dr. Greger. I also exercise 2-3 times daily. Keep doing the right thing and hopefully we could be disease free for the foreseeable future.




        7
      1. Black bean, red bean, pearl barley, lentil, chickpea, mung bean, black rice, red rice, sweet rice, soybean, millet. I use 7-8 items, handful of each, soak the mixture overnight, and drain the water in the morning, and then cook 15 minutes with a pressure cooker (or any cooker if you don’t have pressure cooker). And put some dried dates,dried apricots and raisins when it is done.




        0
  4. What about eating bean sprouts?

    “The small amounts of hemagglutinins that are present in raw mung beans and lentils are destroyed, making these raw sprouts safe. Most legumes, however, contain too many of these illness-producing proteins to be eaten raw. Hemagglutinins are completely destroyed by cooking, so legumes other than mung beans and lentils should be eaten only if cooked.” from “Cooking Vegan” by Vesanto Melina, Joseph Forest

    Is this right? What about other legumes commonly sold as sprouts in supermarkets, or sold for sprouting in health food stores or from seed merchants?

    For example:
    a popular ‘organic sprouting mix’ sold in whole food stores in the U.K. Contains, alfalfa seeds, chick peas and Aduki beans as well as mung beans and green lentils.
    A large supermarket here sells two sprout mixes, including alfalfa, adzuki and chick peas as well as lentils and mung.

    Whole food cookery and diet books these days also recommend eating sprouted grains, such as wheat, rye, barley or buckwheat. Yet these also contain lectins. is there any information suggesting the lectins/hemagglutinins levels in these make this unsafe?

    Have there been any studies on the toxicity/safety of eating raw bean and grain sprouts? Specifically concerning hemagglutinins.




    14
      1. No if they are sprouted. Not only the lectin is gone but it will be more nutritious with sprouting. But again, you only eat a fistful of sprout per day. Beyond that, I don’t know if there is any other harmful compound in sprout? Lectin is only one possible harmful compound in large quantity and for people with digestive problem. For instance, glucosinolates is another harmful compound in cruciferous vegetables, and only in large amount, or people with iodine deficiency.




        3
            1. But rather than mingle with the natives as your introduction and “rush” party, why not spend your time exclusively with the Greger videos. You have only a minimum of 1,800 videos to watch, each approximately 5 minutes, so the math indicates at least a 150-hour viewing binge. Enjoy!

              (And remember to take notes– there will be a test on Monday (:>)




              5
      2. I have to say from experience, sprouted chickpeas and aduki are dicey.
        At a maturity stage where they are safe, they are turning rather green.

        Sprouted beans at a Euro Veg. Conference lead to dozens treated at hospital.




        0
      3. Hi, Phil. Since you eat these regularly, I am guessing you do not experience gastric distress when you do. If you did, I am assuming you would not continue to eat them. Toxic lectins will cause gastric distress, nausea, vomiting, and/or diarrhea.
        Remember that not all lectins are toxic. The term “lectin” refers to a wide class of chemicals, some of which are found in plants to protect them from insects. A few are toxic, but most are not. I am not aware of any toxic lectins in sprouted adzuki beans, mung beans, or chickpeas. If they do not cause you any problems, then enjoy them! I hope that helps.




        1
    1. Hi HulaYorks, Thanks for your question. I am one of the moderators at the website. In this review below indicates germination is one of the most effective methods to improve the nutritional quality of legumes and to reduce the adverse NNCs(Non Nutritive Compounds). Germination mobilizes reserve nutrients required for plant growth hydrolyzing proteins and storage carbohydrates to find the required substrates for the seed development. During germination, seed enzymatic systems activate and protease activity increases [Urbano et al., 2005] and, consequently, protein nitrogen decreases, whilst peptides, polypeptides and non-protein amino acids increase [Kuo et al., 2004; Martinez-Villaluenga et al., 2006b; Rodri- guez et al., 2007], thereby improving protein quality [Urbano et al., 2005; Ghavidel & Prakash, 2007].
      Non-Nutritive Compounds in Fabaceae Family Seeds and the Improvement of Their Nutritional Quality by Traditional Processing – a Review




      4
    2. Vesanto Melina does her homework. She has taught nutrition at Bastyr (naturopathic college), and she is quite sincere. I think you can trust what she says.

      There are also other videos on this site about sprouting. I know Dr G says to avoid alfalfa sprouts because of something like tiny crevices in seeds that house bacteria.




      1
    3. Hi, HulaYorks. Again, part of the point of the video is that not all lectins are toxic. It really depends on what people are sprouting, and what sensitivities they may have. As far as I know, there are no toxic lectins in alfalfa seeds, chickpeas, adzuki beans, mung beans, or green lentils. There are lectins in wheat germ to which some may be sensitive. I don’t know whether or not lectins are responsible, but some people experience skin hypersensitivity to sunlight after consuming raw sprouted buckwheat. I eat bean sprouts, but I prefer them lightly cooked, such as in a stir fry. The lectins in legumes and other seeds exist to protect them from insects prior to germination. Sprouting likely destroys most of them, but they may not be toxic in the first place. Cooking will certainly destroy them. If eating them does not cause gastric discomfort, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, or other symptoms, then they are probably safe for you. I hope that helps!




      2
  5. Did he say you need to pressure cook dry beans for 45 mins to remove the lecthins? My instant pot book says 25-35 for most beans to cook. I also don’t pre-soak, been doing it this way for about 2 years now.




    1
    1. FWIW Nick, my instant pot manual manual provides that 25-35 minute guidance. However for some reason I bumped it up to 60 minutes for all type. Have forgotten why, but I do.

      On the other hand, would figure that a shorter pressure cooking time would be recommended by a manufacturer who knew the actual pressure in his cooker. The higher the pressure, the shorter the cooking time and thus the 25-35 time depending on type. And further the “test” of doneness is whether they are easily chewed and at those times in the Instant Pot, they are palatable.

      All said, I will stay with 60 minutes for all because it is such small thing.

      gl




      1
      1. I don’t know about Instant Pot, but consumer stove top pressure cookers typically have steam release valves calibrated to maintain a gauge pressure (above atmospheric) of 15 psi, roughly twice atmospheric pressure. This increases the boiling point of water to 250 °F.




        2
    2. Pressure cooking beans for 45 minutes to an hour will turn most of them to mushy porridge. I rarely cook my beans longer than 45 minutes. I eat them every day and I’m not getting sick from lectins.

      In my InstantPot, 40 minutes is more than enough for chickpeas. Black beans require maybe 40-45 minutes, but that’s pushing it. By contrast black-eyed peas only take 8 minutes. Red beans like adzuki and kidney are only 30 minutes. These times are all for unsoaked beans, and again I eat them every day.

      I think cook times for “dangerous” foods are generally exaggerated for liability reasons and to account for varying cooking temperatures and pressures that may occur across different devices. Until this video I had never heard that you need to be so worried about how you cook your beans. It seems to have put the fear of God in a lot of people, which is just sad, but that seems to be the way things work around here.

      Just eat your beans. If they’re soft, they’re safe.




      6
    3. Nick,

      yes, without presoaking, it takes 45 minutes in a pressure cooker to get rid of all the lectins, but an hour to make kidney beans edible. So basically, “it appears that cooking beans to the point where they might be considered edible is more than sufficient to destroy virtually all [lectin] activity.”

      I would stick to the rule that: “cooking beans to the point where they might be considered edible is more than sufficient to destroy virtually all [lectin] activity.” Maybe your p. cooker is more effective than the others? Maybe you could also start to pre-soak your beans.

      Hope this helps,

      Moderator Adam P.




      1
      1. If I cooked presoaked beans in my instant pot pressure cooker for 45 minutes, they would be inedible mush. 20 minutes seems to be plenty to make them soft. Is that enough to make kidney beans safe? Seems like it would be.




        0
  6. You could just watch it again for this answer. He said minimum 5 hours soaking, then rinsing, and ten minutes boiling (no pressure), for red kidney beans, which are ‘worst case’. That destroys the lectins, but the beans require more cooking time fo culinary purposes. Whatever the pressure cooking time is, his point was that the lectins are destroyed well before the beans are fully cooked.




    10
  7. Would granola still have lectins? Is baking grains/flours, including bean flours, enough to destroy the lectins? Or, what would be the best way to prepare grains?




    2
    1. Hi, Andrew Laurent. Part of the point of the video is that not all lectins are toxic. Red kidney beans do include toxic lectins that are destroyed by normal cooking. The lectins in lentils, chickpeas, and fava beans are not toxic. I am not aware of any toxic lectins in grains, but they are usually combined with liquid and baked at temperatures above the boiling point for longer than 10 minutes, so even if they did have toxic lectins, it is likely they would be destroyed by this process. I hope that helps!




      0
  8. My daughter was on a health kick for her firstborn. She fed him porridge from kidney beans she ground in my coffee grinder. Besides ruining the coffee grinder, my grandson cried all the time. The beans wee never cooked. No wonder.




    3
    1. Yes, don’t assume that people know how to prepare and cook bean properly. I think that the kid is poisoned out of good intention from the mom.

      While on the subject of lectin, I want to stress also the need of not eating too much nut and seed and grain. Yes they are beneficial but there is a limit to how much you can eat.

      Take for instance oatmeal, I used to eat one cup per day, and raw. Now I soak overnight and cook in a pressure cooker, and I only eat 1/4 of a cup per day. After soaking and cooking in a pressure cooker, the oatmeal expands with water and it goes from 1/4 cup to a full bowl of cooked oatmeal.




      6
      1. Thank you, Jerry L, for telling me how to do it. If not for you and all of your most exact and all-knowing information and correctness, . .. I just wouldn’t know how much to eat.
        Thank Dog for Jerry Lewis.




        15
      2. Jerry, please, when you say there is some limit to how much nuts, seeds and grains one can eat…what is your evidence?

        If true, which I admit to doubting, it would be good to have the source.




        6
        1. From the cited dose response study, mortality risk continued declining intake of up to 100 g/d whole grains, and 150 g/d legumes. Though judging by the actual curves, there’s no indication that the benefit ended there, only the intakes of study cohorts did. A prior study found benefits to whole grain consumption extended to 225 g/d whole grains, and I wouldn’t be surprised if similar extensions were found with intakes of legumes should high-intake populations be studied.




          9
          1. I notice that these mortality curves that end this video seem to indicate increasing mortality after about 250 gm of fruit per day. This seems to contradict Dr. Greger’s teaching in his video, “How much fruit is too much?” where he indicates that you can’t overdo it with fruit. 250 gm is only around 2 servings of fruit a day which, incidentally, about what Dr. Mcdougal used to recommend.




            0
            1. My statistical ability isn’t such as to allow me to comment meaningfully on this but the authors in the text don’t specifically state that there is increasing mortality with increasing fruit consumption above a certain level. However, I agree that the graph appears to show this.

              It may be telling though that the authors simply observe “The risk of all-cause mortality decreased by ∼10%, with increasing intake of fruit up to ∼250–300 g/d. No benefit was apparent when increasing intake above this value (Figure 2)” implying perhaps that they do not think there is a real/significant association between high consumption of fruit and mortality. It may therefore just be statistical noise. I don’t know.
              http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/105/6/1462.full

              I eat more than 300 g/d of fruit so I’d certainly be interested if someone with more knowledge than I could weigh in on this




              3
    1. Dale,

      it really depends on the temperatures. As far as I know, the temperatures should be about 200 Farenheit, that could be enough, but 215 or so would be better.

      Hope this helps,

      Moderator Adam P.




      2
  9. This was very helpful. Having well cooked, soft beans is key. I did notice one thing that I question. The article that spoke to how to pressure cook kidney beans. It also said they could not be done in a slow cooker. It said when done on low for 2 1/2 hours. I agree they would not be done in that short of time. I published a plant based slow cooker cookbook. I have cooked hundreds of pounds of beans in slow cookers. I always cook them until soft, where they can be mashed. I found that they cook perfectly soft on high or on low. They can be soaked or not soaked and come out soft. But when cooking on low and not presoaked it takes several hours for them to come to a boil and cook until soft. All slow cookers are not created equally. I own over 25 and have compared them multiple times with cooking beans. :) If one wants to cook kidney beans on low and they have not been soaked first, it takes any where from 6 to 9 1/2 hours depending on how fast your cooker cooks on low.




    5
  10. May I be allowed (if it pleases Wade Patton,) to mention the ancient Greek “Pythagorean diet?” It involves the abstention from eating meat, beans, or fish. It has been suggested that the prohibition of beans was to avoid favism; susceptible people may develop hemolytic anemia as a result of eating beans, or even of walking through a field where bean plants are in flower.

    An intriguing angle at approaching diet, don’cha think?




    2
    1. Yes people in the world get sick too without the diagnostics to know why. Just like in this country when there are more diagnostics on prostate and thyroid cancer and all in a sudden, the cancer rate of those 2 types of cancer jumped. So is it more cancers or better diagnostics?

      It is very very dangerous to claim that you eat a WFPB diet and you are safe, or of it is a plant food then you can eat as much as you want. Yes you are more healthy than people eating a SAD diet but don’t count on that you have optimal health.

      I remember that in one of the videos, Dr G said that you can eat as much broccoli as you want and the worse thing is diarrhea. Wrong wrong, it is poisonous in large quantity because of the glucosinolates, the very phytonutrient that fights cancer, if you eat too much or if you have an iodine deficiency, something that a lot of vegans have.




      4
    2. No, a mystic philosopher from ancient Greece is probably not our best guide for a modern diet.

      Besides, beans are good for you. For evidence, view the video above, if you haven’t already.




      13
    3. Fava beans are the only bean that can cause favism. A person with this allergy will do just fine on any other kind of bean. One legend says that Pythagoras ran through a fava bean field while trying to escape his enemies and died as a result of a severe allergic reaction.




      9
    4. Rick, if you want an ancient mystic/philosopher to help you decide what to eat, that’s your prerogative. But personally I’d rather stick to modern scientific evidence.




      6
    5. Favism comes from a genetic trait and doesn’t apply to most of us. One thing all those healthy 100-year-olds in the various Blue Zones have in common is eating beans every day. If the healthiest, longest living people on the planet are eating some kind of beans every day, I think we can learn from them and do ourselves the favor of eating beans.




      4
  11. I don’t own Gundry book and I don’t intend to buy it. But from the review, I don’t see anywhere that Dr Gundry is trashing eating legume but he is just talking about soaking and cooking properly to avoid lectin and so I don’t understand why Dr G is trashing Gundry?

    https://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-30025/is-this-plant-protein-actually-harming-your-gut-sabotaging-your-weight-loss-a.html

    Furthermore, it’s not surprising that a lot of people including people on this board, are not cooking and soaking bean properly.

    And then there are foods containing lectin such as tomato that people don’t usually cook.

    If 90% of the people don’t have any problem eating lectin then we cannot ignore the other 10%. Some people on this board have posted that they got sick with lectin foods and so it is a real thing. Other people in the world have no problem eating lectin foods simply because either they eat every day and their body adapts to it, or just because of the lack of diagnostics and they fall sick too and nobody knows why.

    I think it is selective and cherry picked reading again just like cherry picked writing.

    On a different subject, I will post sometimes later about the danger of eating broccoli, yes broccoli, if you have an iodine deficiency. This is posted by Dr Furhman, a vegan doctor, and so don’t accuse that this is propaganda by meat eaters. And vegans are prone to have iodine deficiency if you don’t eat iodized table salt or certain foods such as algae and it was told on this board and Dr G to not eat salt (yet another misleading concept).




    7
    1. Could you post links to support your claims re. Dr. Fuhrman’s site ? All I could find that looked remotely relevant was:

      https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/97/do-cruciferous-vegetables-or-soybeans-harm-the-thyroid

      which contained:

      “The fear of eating cruciferous vegetables or that people with hypothyroidism should reduce or avoid the consumption of kale or other cruciferous vegetables (circulating the internet) is unfounded and does a disservice to the community. Whether you have normal thyroid function or hypothyroidism, there is no benefit for you to avoid or restrict your intake of cruciferous vegetables.”




      14
      1. Karl, you have linked to the right post from Dr Furhman. Following are the stuff that I collect from a poster on another “meat eater” blog that I don’t want to bother to post over here because people will be trashing.

        P.S. this is probably my last post of today even if you or other people ask more questions because if I post more then I will get the complaint of “posting too much” but there are so many misleading stuff that other people posted that I cannot address them all.

        Cruciferous compounds have shown a potent protective effect against numerous cancers, including breast cancer, prostate cancer, colorectal cancer, bladder cancer, and lung cancer. Some research has shown that vegetables also protect against thyroid cancer (4). 22 Foods Highest in Iodine (5).

        CRUCIFEROUS VEGETABLES, AND THYROID

        Cruciferous vegetables contain all of the glucosinolates, which when metabolized form a substance called goitrin, a hormone that interferes with the synthesis of thyroid hormone. When animals eat large amounts of cruciferous vegetables, they develop hypothyroidism, which has led to speculation that humans may be affected in a similar way.

        The current scientific consensus is that cruciferous vegetables may only be detrimental to thyroid function in cases of iodine deficiency or insufficient iodine intake (1 to 3). Unlike animals, humans only develop hypothyroidism, when there is also an iodine deficiency. When this happens, the pituitary gland does not send the correct message to the thyroid, to reinforce its size, and produce more thyroid hormone, which can over a long period of time, cause goiter.

        A common cause of thyroid enlargement is poor nutrition, which causes the long-term lack of iodine, selenium, zinc, vitamin D3, which are just a few of the nutrients essential for keeping the thyroid healthy. Water fluoride, is counterproductive for the thyroid, as it competes in iodine adsorption.

        Iodine deficiency is a problem that may appear in those who follow a diet based on vegetables, since iodine is not naturally abundant in foods except fish, molluscs and algae. Iodized salt is the main source of iodine in the Western diet. In cases of a vegetarian diet with low salt intake, iodine deficiency may exist.

        Iodine content of some foods :.

        Rectified: the salt of the Himalayas, has no iodine. Thanks ChildOfStars

        A three-ounce serving of cod, provides your body with 99 micrograms of iodine, or 66% that the thyroid gland needs.

        A three-ounce serving of shrimp provides 35 micrograms of iodine. Three ounces of baked turkey breast provide 34 micrograms of iodine. 23% of recommended daily value.

        One cup of plain yogurt provides 154 micrograms of iodine (58% DV).

        A hard-boiled egg provides almost 10% of the iodine needed for day-to-day life.

        Blueberries, 4 ounces, 400 micrograms of iodine. 267%.

        https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/97/do-cruciferous-vegetables-or-soybeans-harm-the-thyroid

        http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/2419242

        http://content.iospress.com/articles/biofactors/bio00558

        https://iths.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/a-pooled-analysis-of-case-control-studies-of-thyroid-cancer-vii-c

        http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.2910480315/full




        2
        1. That’s certainly a lot of text and citations but what has any of it to do with the claim in your post (that I was responding to):

          “On a different subject, I will post sometimes later about the danger of eating broccoli, yes broccoli, if you have an iodine deficiency”

          The article from Fuhrman that I cited, and that you agreed was the relevant article, stated exactly the opposite (i.e. the quote that I included from that article).




          11
          1. Jerry, which part of

            “The fear of eating cruciferous vegetables or that people with hypothyroidism should reduce or avoid the consumption of kale or other cruciferous vegetables (circulating the internet) is unfounded and does a disservice to the community. Whether you have normal thyroid function or hypothyroidism, there is no benefit for you to avoid or restrict your intake of cruciferous vegetables

            did you not understand? It’s the 1st paragraph of the article you sited, which you obviously didn’t read. Stop embarrassing yourself.




            9
            1. Furthermore, other researches such as the following, said that by cooking for instance brussel sprout, it will reduce the glucosinolates which can affect people with thyroid problem.

              Myself, I light cook all of my vegetables at low temperature or steam and get away from eating raw foods a long time ago. Certain foods are better off be eaten raw but most of them need to be cooked to increase nutrients absorption and reduce the harmful compounds.

              http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/2419242

              “Brassica vegetables are the major source of glucosinolates in the human diet. Certain glucosinolates are readily converted into goitrogenic species, notably 5-vinyloxazolidine-2-thione and thiocyanate ion. The effect of dietary Brussels sprouts, a particularly rich source of such glucosinolates, on thyroid function has been examined. Inclusion of cooked Brussels sprouts (150 g daily for 4 weeks) into a normal diet of 10 volunteer subjects had no effect on thyroid function as determined by measurement of thyrotrophic hormone, thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine even though the sprouts contained high concentrations (220 mg/100 g) of glucosinolates. In view of the reported antithyroid activity of 5-vinyloxazolidine-2-thione it is suggested that this lack of activity of cooked Brussels sprouts is due to inactivation during cooking of myrosinase, the specific glucosinolate-degrading enzyme.”




              1
          2. The Furhman article is titled “Do cruciferous vegetables or soybeans harm the thyroid?”. Throughout his article, he talked about hypothyroidism and the effect that cruciferous vegetables consumption can have on them due to the glucosinolates content which is a double sword to cure cancer and at the same time can cause health issues to people although it is not definite that it does but it does cause issues to lab rats.

            So as a precaution, he suggested that we eat plenty of foods containing iodine, or use supplementation. Now you guys will accuse him of writing this article so that he can sell his iodine supplement, as you usually accuse other “meat eater” doctors of being biased to sell supplements. You believe whatever you want but if you choose to be stupid then nobody can stop you. By the way, nobody including “meat eater” doctors ever suggest that you don’t eat cruciferous vegetables, just that you need to be careful to supply yourself with adequate iodine intake.

            “Vegans and others on mostly plant-based diets may have low iodine intake without supplementation, especially if they avoid salt, suggesting that supplementation is appropriate.17,18 Also, pregnant women may require a greater amount of iodine than the general population because of the iodine needs of the fetus.19 “




            0
          1. Hi Marilyn, I copied what I posted above from somebody posts on another blog. In the following are more complete lists of foods that contain iodine and only one type of blueberry contains a lot of iodine, but the other food is cranberry.

            So you need about 200-300 mcg of iodine per day and even the foods that contain a lot of iodine contains only up to like 50 mcg so in order to get to 300 mcg, you need to eat 6 of those foods, or you supplement. Myself, I take supplement and I read from the testimonials that it fixes health problems on a number of people.

            You know that beside the protection for eating cruciferous vegetables. iodine is needed to prevent goiter diseases as well as protecting you from gut, cancer, etc. issues. There are much more than just eating WFPB and people who are complacent are harming themselves.

            http://blog.paleohacks.com/top-11-goitrogenic-foods-thyroid-health/#

            http://blog.paleohacks.com/thyroid-gut-connection/

            https://www.dietitians.ca/Your-Health/Nutrition-A-Z/Minerals/Food-Sources-of-Iodine.aspx




            1
    2. With regards to your concern for eating broccoli with an iodine deficiency, ironically, beans are high in iodine, so rejoice in our ability to put the chemically-processed salt shakers down; remarkable how nature has this all figured out, no?




      9
    3. Come on Jerry. Wow. Where to start?

      First, a quick Google search leads to Dr. Gundry’s webpage where he clearly states that all legumes are forbidden or “on the no list” http://gundrymd.com/plant-paradox-shopping-list/

      Second, did you even watch the video? Most people are cooking their legumes properly. Half of the video was basically saying that if you cook the beans until they’re palatable, you’ve destroyed the lectins. Further, the research in the video shows that most lectins are harmless and that the ones that cause us trouble are the in the foods we cook anyway.




      15
      1. Ryan, doctor Gundry specializes in patients with lectin problem and this is a real problem to some people, albeit not a lot. Same with doctors specializing in candida overgrowth, or doctors specializing in celiac diseases, peanut allergy, etc. etc. Each one will tell you there are certain foods you cannot eat although it is 100% healthy to 95% of the people. I am surprised that Dr Gundry has only a very short list of foods that people with lectin issue cannot eat. If you look at the list of gluten free foods that people with celiac cannot eat, it is much longer.

        Having said that, Dr G and a number of fanatic people on this board, are wrongfully accusing Dr Gundry of telling people to avoid lectin foods. There is no evidence that he does. Yes he makes money by serving those patients with lectin issue. Yes he sells supplements for people with lectin issue. But comparing to FDA drugs, his lectin supplements are dirt cheap.

        I mean everyone are making money including us and Dr G (who makes money at health seminars on cruise ships), and so is it a crime if you do so? So do you think that it is a crime if Steve Job told people that they need a smartphone and then turned around to make and sell the iPhone? How about people who make the PC and Internut for you to type craps and insult other people every 5 minutes?




        1
        1. No Jerry- Dr. Gundry prescribes this no lection diet for everyone, not just people worth lection sensitivity- that’s why he wrote the book Plant Paradox.

          His list of foods you can’t eat is extensive too. No grains of any kind (including whole grains, pastas, and flours), no legumes of any kind, no tomatoes, potatoes, pumpkins, zucchini, bell peppers, eggplant, squash, chili peppers, no fruit unless it’s ‘in season’ (plants only fruit when in season??), sunflower seeds, cucumbers, peas, snap peas, chia seeds, peanuts, and cashews. I’m not sure if you could even live off of what’s left if you’re trying to keep to WFPB and still be nutritionally complete.

          Dr. Gundry clearly recommends this diet to everyone and I can’t believe this is a point of discussion.




          11
          1. OK Ryan, I look again at his web site and the guy is a little bit sensational and marketing oriented to make money and he makes a 5% of the population problem like a 95% population problem. It’s the same as the lectin free marketing that you see virtually at any food store. But lectin is a real problem for some people and there is nothing wrong if he targets that population only to make money.

            But it is the same hype as gluten free foods that they tell you to eat gluten free foods because it is better for your health even if you don’t have celiac disease.

            So now after saying all of the above, I start to look at every aspects of nutrition and just don’t dismiss everything because I appear to have no problem.

            For instance the low carb high fat people tell you to limit your carb and replace it with fat. Well there is scientific evidence to back up their theory and although I still eat carb, I try to limit myself to less than 200 g per day.

            http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext

            The anti lectin people tell you to avoid lectin. Thanks to them that it brings the awareness to you that you need to cook foods with lectin very well such as bean. Some people do not cook properly and that’s a fact.

            I can go on with people warning about electromagnetic from cell phone causing cancer. So although I still use my cell phone, I stop having my cell phone charging on the nightstand right next to my head while I am sleeping.

            And so on…

            But don’t trash everyone but look a little bit at what they said.




            0
            1. Jerry
              The Lancet article is about an observational study which found “High carbohydrate intake was associated with higher risk of total mortality, whereas total fat and individual types of fat were related to lower total mortality. Total fat and types of fat were not associated with cardiovascular disease, myocardial infarction, or cardiovascular disease mortality, whereas saturated fat had an inverse association with stroke. Global dietary guidelines should be reconsidered in light of these findings.”

              However, in essence, the finding was tactuallynhat people in poor countries with diets based on cheap low quality carbohydrates have greater mortality and disease burden than people in wealthy Western countries with excellent health care systems who have richer diets and eat more fat. Similar analyses using he same technique have previously been used to exonerate and laud both saturated fat and cholesterol consumption, and animal foods consumption.

              International comparisons which don’t control for such confounding variables, or distinguish between simple and complex carbohydrates, may produce misleading results. Harvard has pointed out some of the problems with this study (as have others).
              https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2017/09/08/pure-study-makes-headlines-but-the-conclusions-are-misleading/
              r
              it may or may not be relevant that McMaster University has a history of publishing studies favourable to the dairy industry and exonerating saturated fat (dairy foods are the main source of saturated fat in the US diet). Dairy Farmers of Canada acknowledge McMaster University as a “partner”. Dr David Katz has also observed that some of the authors of this study have a long record of having been critics of Ancel Keys and the Seven Countries Study, based on factually incorrect claims about Keys’ methodology (made after he was safely dead, no doubt)
              https://www.dairyfarmers.ca/who-we-are/our-partners
              https://epi.grants.cancer.gov/diet/foodsources/sat_fat/sf.html
              http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/diet-and-health-puzzling-past-paradox-to-pure-understanding_us_59a81d10e4b02498834a8f27

              Why you think a flawed observational study like this is superior to the bulk of evidence which demonstrates that low carb diets deliver higher mortality, eludes me.




              6
              1. This is a study involving people in 18 countries over a very long period of time and you dismiss it as observational. LOL. Talking about cherry picking and bias. I am sure if it is related to anti fat then you will call it meaningful study. Sigh!

                You know what, humans are not like lab rats that you can subject them to eating a certain diet and see what will happen. In fact, I read somewhere when they subjected mental health patients to eat real fat or vegetable oil fat and they had to stop because people eating vegetable oil became so sick and it is unethical.

                https://www.statnews.com/2017/08/29/fat-nutrition-study/

                http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext




                2
                1. Here is the extract and I don’t bother to post where it comes from because you guys will dismiss as bias.

                  The next study was completed over 40 years ago, but it wasn’t published because the results contradicted the prevailing dogma that saturated fat was bad and that LDL cholesterol caused heart disease. This was a study that could not be conducted today because it would be considered unethical. They fed 9,000 people in mental hospitals butter and saturated fats or corn oil (polyunsaturated vegetable oil, which the AHA report says we should eat more of). And, guess what? Those who ate the corn oil had more heart attacks and deaths, despite lowering their LDL cholesterol. Really? Yes, it’s true. In fact, for every 30-point drop in LDL the risk of heart attack went up 22 percent. To top it off a recent review of all the science on big bad butter looking at 6.5 million patient years of butter eating, researchers found that butter eaters had no increased risk of heart disease, but they did have decreased risk of type 2 diabetes. You read that right. Butter = lower risk of type 2 diabetes. And if you still need to be convinced, here’s a review of 17 meta-analyses (reviews of all the best and relevant research) showing no link between saturated fat and heart disease.




                  2
                2. Don’t get too excited but I accidentally clicked “Like” on your post.

                  You wrote “This is a study involving people in 18 countries over a very long period of time and you dismiss it as observational. LOL.”
                  I didn’t dismiss it. I am sure that it is valid as far as it goes but such things can be and often are misinterpreted even by the authors, especially if they have an agenda. However this was a prospective cohort study – it says so in the title. This means that it is by definition an observational study. Therefore calling it an observational study is a simple statement of fact. Here is a primer on observational studies which may help.
                  http://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~rdecook/stat1010/notes/Section_1.3_study_types.pdf

                  Unfortunately, your posts have a habit of exposing your ignorance of both the evidence and how to assess evidence. This is a prime example. Even more unfortunately, your ignorance does not prevent you from presenting your opinions as established facts even when they are clearly refuted by the evidence. An as another poster has commented, you have a habit of making stuff up

                  That PURE study has significant methodological problems that either by design or accident lead to implied conclusions that are contrary to findings from both better designed observational studies and experimental studies. These are discussed and referenced in previous posts on this matter which of course you continue to close your eyes to.

                  As for your unreferenced story about mental health patients and fat. You seem to have got the story exactly 180 degrees wrong (no surprise there though, eh?). The patients fed the high PUFA vegetable fat diet had half the CHD rates of patients fed the high saturated fat and high cholesterol diet.
                  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/393644




                  7
            2. Finally somebody who is not biased, I’m new here and unfortunatley seems a lot of folks are not willing to hear both sides of the story.. Perhaps we should look further into the Plant Paradox by Dr. Gundry, Eat Right 4 Your Type by Dr. Peter . D’adamo and a book I have read personally is No Grain, No Pain by Dr. Peter Osbourne. Some of the videos by Dr. Osbourne on YouTube highlight the importance of genetic testing and relation into grains, please do look at the videos and patient testimonies. As you might know, the components of grains are very similar to dairy and nightshades, legumes may not be that far off in comparison.




              1
              1. You are exactly right. If some people get sick from eating grain or carb in general and you don’t because you are healthy, do you have to wonder if a food can be poisonous in large quantity, or if you don’t eat other foods in parallel, or when you get older and your body is not the same anymore, etc? I am not saying to not eat those foods at all but you need to watch out the amount that you eat or how you prepare and eat. This book by Gundy although it is a little bit sensational, does bring out the awareness about lectin and some people on this board has posted that they just found out that they don’t prepare and cook lectin foods such as bean properly.

                On a different subject, people have claimed that they can cure cancer with the ketogenic diet. I don’t have cancer (yet) but if I do then I will consider it seriously short of subjecting myself to chemo or radiation.

                https://www.statnews.com/2017/08/29/fat-nutrition-study/

                http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/fulltext




                1
  12. Interesting video but if you have a garden or live near a rural market you can get beans that do not come dried or in a can. In fact they are coming in right now, fresh beans in the pod. I’ll admit I don’t like crunchy fresh picked beans without being cooked, but I did not know I was poisoning myself by sampling fresh beans in the garden? Same with Fava Beans, I eat young ones fresh all the time and only blanch mature ones for a for a few minutes, but they are old world beans more related to a pea so OK I guess?

    Anyway I guess this is a middle video in a series rebutting Dr Grundy’s book so I’m not to worried. I just find the tone that no one would eat a bean that has not been cooked a bit odd.




    1
    1. I always thought that “only cooked beans” was just referring to dried beans not fresh in the pod. Please somebody tell me at what point the bean in the pod is full of lectin.




      1
  13. I have had pressure cooked beans (all kinds, black, red, chick, pinto, navy) my entire 85 years with no problems. Here is my method–if helpful!

    1lb beans rinsed several times & soaked overnight. ( In morning rinse, place all beans in pressure cooker with exactly 6 measured cups of water and couple of onions if desired). Bring pressure up and let it jiggle for one full hour. Then turn off & let sit till pressure is down, open enjoy beans alone or in its soup. Just wonderful with whatever you want to use for. Soup, on salad, mashed, hummus. Endless variety. Or if too much, freeze it. I never just cook in smaller then one pound increments. Thanks for listening. Be well friends!




    10
  14. I only use fully soaked and cooked or canned beans in my crockpot recipes. Lentils can be tossed in the crockpot directly after washing. I would not use the crockpot to cook dried beans.




    2
  15. The last paper shown in the video shows plots of mortality vs certain food groups. Whole grains and beans – good. Consumption of fruit beyond about a pound shows a decrease in mortality!! What’s up with that?? So the more fruit we eat, the sooner we die. Seems a dubious result which puts all the results in doubt to me.




    1
        1. Fruit is a very big category. What kind of fruit? after all tomatoes and avocados are fruit also.
          Some fruit are low fructose, some high. Not enough info here.




          0
    1. Hi, Paul. This is a meta-analysis, meaning that the researchers combined many studies on the same topic and did some fancy math (cubic splines!) on the combined data from those studies. This does not necessarily mean that the more fruit you eat the sooner you die. It implies that there is an optimal intake of fruit, and that consuming more than that does not add any benefit in terms of longevity. There may also be other factors involved that we don’t know about in some of these studies. Fruit tends to be sweet, and maybe some of the people who ate a lot of fruit had a thing for sweets. We know that sugar intake has a negative effect on overall health. I don’t know enough about the raw data to say why that curve came out that way, but I would suggest that we not “throw out the baby with the bath water,” so to speak. People who eat lots of whole grains and legumes probably eat less meat, and we know that is a good thing. I hope that helps.




      0
    1. Paul. Somebody asked the same question earlier. The authors of the study simply commented that there was no evidence of a further mortality benefit above 250-300 g/d, implying they perhaps did not think that the rising mortality curve after that point was real/significant.




      1
      1. As a published researcher myself, I would never publish data that has no significance,.is misleading, or worse incorrect.  Shame on the authors and the journal if they did any of that.  Shame on Dr. G. for not pointing out the misleading fruit data in the video.




        0
        1. nope…no shame. Increased fruit consumption still has decreased mortality markers, even if the curve seems to have a prime spot, it’s still below “1.” Graphs really just show that you probably don’t want to eat mostly fruit and nothing else. Don’t be upset at dr. gregor for showing a graph that says “whole grains and legume daily consumption are strongly correlated with longevity (even more so than fruit).”




          2
          1. You may be right.  But it is incumbent upon the authors to explain their data rather than leaving you and I to draw conclusions that may or may not be true – such as “Graphs really just show that you probably don’t want to eat mostly fruit and nothing else.” Which is your conclusion, not mine.




            0
  16. I heard a phrase that made me think, “This concept seems like it should have its own video.”

    @4:45: “Randomize people who eat five cups of lentils, chickpeas, split peas, and navy beans a week, and you can see the same benefits, in terms of weight loss and metabolic benefits, that you do with caloric restriction portion control.”




    8
  17. As usual, Dr. Greger’s research is impeccable. I watch his videos every day. I am one year vegan with the help of these videos and my cholesterol is down 20 points as well a my weight and all other indicators have become normal. I am grateful for Dr. Greger and his team each and every day.




    10
  18. Well done Dr. Greger! Again you are right on the money. Unfortunately, many readers of The Plant Paradox book are now afraid of beans and are probably out buying pressure cookers who otherwise wouldn’t have bought them.




    5
    1. Hello,

      cooking is usually associated with increased protein bioavailability. Can you please give us source of that information?

      Thanks,

      Moderator Adam P.




      1
      1. Well, let me put it another way. Is there a difference in cooking beans (boiling or simmering) in respect to retaining the protein content versus carbohydrate content?

        I don’t have a source, but only that I heard that slow simmer beans retains the protein content and boiling them reduces protein content. Do you know if there is any truth to this? thanks.




        1
    1. I don’t think the question of chickpea flour is addressed in the video – especially when it is not usually cooked for very long, but usually soaked in water for a while and cooked like a pancake or added to flour mixes which are baked. I would love to have a complete, definitive answer. I also love to munch on fresh raw peas, green beans and corn – no cooking. Is that OK?




      0
      1. Maile,

        even if you don’t cook it, you still expose it to heat, as you said, baked or roasted… Fresh raw peas, green beans and corn are not associated with lectin poisoning, so you are good to go!

        Hope this helps,

        Moderator Adam P.




        2
  19. Maxine – Good for you and congratulations on your positive changes. I stopped all dairy 40 years ago (terrible stomach distress) and I was warned by my Doctor to drink milk daily. Nope,, .. didn’t do that. Ten years ago I made the switch to WFPB, no added oils. Previous to the WFPB switch I was 30lbs overweight, had gout, was prediabetic (fasting glucose 125, right on the diabetic border), cholesterol going in the wrong direction and on the verge of having to start taking pharmaceutical drugs. Ten years into WFPB-eating my health has never been better. No meds. Normal blood work, tons of energy. I may or may not live any longer than standard american diet eaters, but I am already living better than I was with lots of health improvements. I just feel better. I am thankful to Greger, Esselstyn, Campbell, Novick, McDougall, Klapper, Kim, Fuhrman, Ornish – all very knowledgeable physicians and professionals – for their taking a stand against very powerful meat and dairy companies for the sake of the health of us all. I am especially grateful to McDougall who has been beating this drum for decade upon decade now, often quite alone in his convictions. Here is a link to one woman’s story of how she reversed her medical problems by going WFPB if anyone is interested.:
    https://www.forksoverknives.com/plant-based-diet-got-me-off-the-lung-transplant-list-and-helped-me-regain-my-eyesight/?utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=Got-Off-Lung-Transplant-Lisa-9/12&utm_source=mailchimp&utm_term=Kate-McGoey-Smith#gs.fN_4hdI

    Other posters on this site pooh-pooh WFPB eating. That’s their right to disagree and to conduct their lives how they choose for themselves. But the proof that really matters is the health of the individual. I know my health changed for the better much because of Dr. Greger’s sharing of important scientific information in a very easily accessible and understandable format. So no matter what sort of know-it-all that posts on this site, it is Dr. Greger that helped me and it is his information that will be #1 in my book. Thank you Dr. G.




    14
    1. Rudy, I enjoyed reading your testimonial and the rest of your post. It’s stories like yours that help motivate us all to see the actual benefits of the WPF way of eating. I have many friends who eat a variety of different diets, mostly the SAD one, and most of them are in poor health. But every one of them that converts to WPF turns their poor heath around, so I don’t think it’s coincidental!




      6
  20. Re. Softening dry kjdney beans: one of my cookbooks proposed to increase soaking and/or cooking time depending on the length of storage time. If you or your purchase source have stored the beans for an extended time, the preparation takes longer. This seems to be the fine print that should come with Instant Pot or Slow Cooker since there is another determiner than the pot.




    2
    1. Hi, mike at the river. It is best to soak beans before cooking, typically overnight. You can also use a pressure cooker in lieu of soaking. If you don’t have a pressure cooker, and don’t want to soak beans, you can boil them for 10 minutes, let them sit for an hour, and then resume cooking for at least another 30 minutes until they are tender. I hope that helps!




      0
    2. Hi, mike at the river. It is best to soak beans before cooking, typically overnight. You can also use a pressure cooker in lieu of soaking. If you don’t have a pressure cooker, and don’t want to soak beans, you can boil them for 10 minutes, let them sit for an hour, and then resume cooking for at least another 30 minutes until they are tender. I hope that helps!




      0
  21. Hi,

    I have been receiving emails from nutritionfacts.org for almost a year and this is the first time I’ve felt the urge to post a comment.

    In my culture, beans (black, red, white, kidney, etc.) are a staple of our traditional diet. Usually if you do not own a pressure cooker, which was pretty much 50% of the population by the mid 20th century we would leave the beans soaking overnight and then get rid of that water, put fresh water in a cooking pot and off you’d go cooking the beans until soft. Which depending on whether you had an actual electric or gas cooker or some sort of wood stove could take… hours! Yes, hours!

    In this century I would say that 95% of the population in my country (Costa Rica, Central America) has an electric or gas cooker and a pressure cooker and we leave our beans cook for AT LEAST 30 min AFTER they have boiled or the pressure cooker says so.

    I have never heard of eating raw beans in my country and I am sure that is NOT a practice in any of the Latin countries going from Mexico down in the Americas. Now, countries further down Peru or Brazil I am not sure if beans are as important to them but I do not think they eat them raw either.

    Furthermore, if eating well cooked beans were toxic, Mexico and Central America would be scarcely populated nowadays.




    9
    1. I forgot to add that down here, most of our beans are fresh. There are of course pre-cooked or cooked canned beans in super markets but I can assure you they have been properly cooked.

      The only things you can accuse beans of are:

      1) Giving you gas if you are not used to them or you have issues with your digestive system (irritable bowel syndrome or similar)

      2) Giving you stomach ache if you are foolish enough not to take proper care of them once cooked: they need to be boiled everyday so they don’t spoil and go sour, for example if you do not own a fridge and/or you leave in a very hot location. But even if you have a freezer and keep them there after freshly cooked: you ALWAYS boil them at least 10 min before you eat them. This is what you are taught when you are a child.




      7
      1. thanks Redwood
        for taking the time to comment , you mention about not owning a fridge ,your right about refrigeration , most people would not be able to survive without it , I can remember when as a young child my family didn’t have a fridge……it’s a whole different world without fridges. I often said take peoples fridges away from them and their diets would change dramatically….meat would most likely not be everyday food , dairy products would be a challenge, no icecream lol
        glad you commented




        5
  22. I know this is all about lectins and beans but it does mention other fruits and vegetables the contain lectins – IE all nightshades and others – what do we do about the veggies like nightshades that contain lectins that are not typically cooked like beans are – is there risk in eating those raw – like tomatoes peppers eggplant potatoes and the afformentioned Goji Berries – this is a quote from the livestrong.com website – Nightshade fruits and vegetables belong to the family of Solanaceae plants of the Solanum genus. This group of plants contains more than 2,500 species that are widely used as food and medicine, according to Encyclopaedia Britannica. Some people have a sensitivity to nightshade plants and are unable to digest them fully. If you have a sensitivity, you may experience diarrhea, gas, bloating, nausea, painful joints, headaches and depression from consuming nightshades. I know eggpant potatoes and others are frequently cooked as in salsa with tomatoes and peppers but I used to eat alot of raw tomatoes and altho I think agent orange is the likely cause of my neurodegenerative disorder that is terminal ive been juicing raw veggies for about 6+ years – graduated from hospice but am told my disease is progressing and due to worseing low blood pressure with rapid pulse just standing and desaturations with any activity im still via diet and supplements trying/fighting to live – any suggestions about the raw veggies and or any other suggestions re neurodegenerative disorders that would include all the Alpha Synuclean diseases = myasthinia gravis – parkinsons & the parkinsons+ disorders alzheimers NVCJD etc etc – any advice would be greatly appreciated!

    Thank you in advance for any advice.

    Sincerely,

    Kevin Lewis, PA
    Medically Retired




    3
    1. That depends on the pressure cooker you’ve got! Not all pressure cookers are created equal.

      The point is though that you will need to test your pressure cooker and you will eat your beans if and only if they are soft (that definitely guarantees they will be properly cooked).




      0
    1. me too GUEST
      i try to feed my dog about 50% home cooked rice and sweet potato and the rest of his diet is commercial dog food , he seems pretty good on that but I don’t think dog food is very good for them.




      2
      1. Thanks for your reply Macman. Every pet I’ve had has in their past has had kidney problems a which I feel is a result of too much animal protien – increasing the acid load on the kidneys.. I just saw this documentary on Netflix called “Petfooled”- all about the negative health effects of commercial pet food, but their answer was essentially touting a raw meat diet, which as we all know is not a very clean source of food for us, so why would it be so good and clean for dogs and cats. Especially considering the conditions of modern animal agriculture and the viruses and fecal bacteria that are present in uncooked and cooked meat.

        My dog now has tested positive for crystals in the urine, despite her diet including plenty of: beans, broccoli, tofu, korean sweet potato, cooked carrot, hard boiled egg, and a small amount of cooked meat – whether it is ground turkey or ground beef. I know about vegan dog food, but who’s to say V-Dog or another similar brand is the answer? Of course they claim dogs thrive on the stuff…but is there proof? I want my dog to be healthy, not just vegan because I am.

        Dr. Gregor has said before that he only knows about human nutrition, and cannot speak on this issue, but I wonder why? Is there really no comprehensive studies that we can draw informed conclusions from?




        4
        1. rlud1: I’m glad Dr. Greger doesn’t address pet health. I don’t think being an expert on human nutrition would make Dr. Greger an expert on say dog nutrition. I’d rather Dr. Greger continue to stick with what he knows.

          That said, I share your frustration that we don’t have good information about nutrition and dogs. Last I looked, there really wasn’t much out there regarding really good science and dog nutrition. The lack is shocking.

          I am aware of only one independent (ie, not paid for by a dog food company), published scientific study on dog food in regard to a vegan diet. The study was on a small number of dogs and was very short term, but the study gives us tantalizing hints. The study was on working Alaskan sled dogs, who have to be in peak condition. And the study looked at objective measures, not asking the owner “Hey, how do you think they did?” The result was that the vegan dogs did just as well as the omnivore dogs in the control group. This tiny study proves nothing. But it does hint at an answer and shows that we need more and better studies. If interested, here is the study: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFulltext?type=6&fid=6488300&jid=BJN&volumeId=102&issueId=09&aid=6488296&bodyId=&membershipNumber=&societyETOCSession=&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S0007114509389254

          While we don’t have a lot of science regarding nutrition and dogs, we do have some and we do have some good anecdotes. Even with the good anecdotes, the crystal thing is a big concern. I recommend watching a talk from a vet who helps people transition their dogs to a vegan diet. She talks about the gotchas and what to look out for. While a properly formatted vegan diet seems to help a lot of dogs thrive, some dogs may not be able to do it. Here’s the talk: Vegan Diets For Cats and Dogs, Risks And Benefits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIMBX3jdYM0

          Back to anecdotes, we have many, many additional hints that dogs can thrive on a vegan diet. I understand that one of the longest lived dogs according to the Guiness Book of World Records was a vegan named Bramble. I think Bramble lived something like 27 years and was not a small dog (small dogs typically live longer relative to large ones). And then there are the many, many dogs which are thriving on vegan diets today in people’s homes. I personally know a handful of such dogs, including a lucky dog who has a vet for his human.
          .
          My own dog has been on a vegan kibble for 7+ years. My dog is a 13 year old Great Dane (14 in December!) whose blood work is still all normal and who most people think is much younger when they meet him. Just two days ago my vet said that my dog looks like a younger dog. Great Danes usually only live 8-10 years. Certainly no one can say that my dog’s diet has hurt him. When my dog was 6, the food I had been feeding him got bought by the company, Purina. I did not trust that Purina would keep the same quality, so I started doing research, including learning about how tainted the meat supply is in the world, especially in America. So, even feeding my dog human grade meat did not seem to be the answer. After doing lots of research, I finally decided to switch to a vegan kibble. My dog went vegan before I did, and we both got a very nice surprise: My dog’s health didn’t just stay the same, it dramatically *improved*.
          .
          About a year and a half before switching diets, my dog had started peeing blood. Sometimes it was dark red and very scary to me. I had gone to multiple vets about this problem, done x-rays, etc. Nothing helped. I did not expect the diet change to fix this problem, but after a couple months on the vegan kibble, the blood in the pee magically disappeared. The cure was likely *not* just coincidence since as I said, he had been peeing blood for a long time. His coat and nails also got shinier. And his energy/play level went up. In a 6 year old Great Dane, those changes were really something and sold me for life right there on the value of a vegan diet for dogs.
          .
          One important piece to this question is to note a study that came out about 4? of years ago that showed that dogs have a significant biological difference from wolves – one that had to do with having 3 genes that help dogs digest starch. This makes perfect sense to me since one of the current leading theories about how wolves became dogs is that dogs started hanging out around human trash piles, eating human leftover food. Which as we know from NutritionFacts, would primarily have been plants, including a lot of starches. For more about the biological study of how dogs are different from wolves, check out this article from one of my favorite, nationally known dog trainer Patricia McConnell: http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/dogs-wolves-diet-and-sociability This information makes me believe that dogs are especially adapted to be able to tolerate (a specially designed for dogs!) vegan diet and that arguments from the other side that look at wolves diet and biology are not so valid.
          .
          FYI: V-dog is the brand I feed my pup. I did several feeding tests and my dog loves his v-dog just as much as he loved his old brand, Innova. If someone reading this post is interested in feeding their dog a vegan diet, it is worth doing some research. Like any diet for any species, there are some potential “gotchas” worth avoiding as I mentioned above. And not all vegan kibbles are the same.
          .
          I find that most of the people who believe that dogs should eat meat use the same flawed arguments that paleo proponents use for arguing that humans should eat meat. Meat proponents for dogs certainly do not have any more science to back up their assertions than I do for my vegan assertions–at least none that I have seen. Something to think about. Another philosophical point: What do we owe our non-human companions? We certainly owe them physical as well as mental and emotional health. ***AND***, in my opinion, we owe the species a future. A world where they can exist, which will not happen if humans continue to promote the animal food industry. So, even if meat and vegan diets came out neck and neck in terms of general dog health, other factors then weigh the scales to favor the vegan diet. (That said, if your particular dog is unable to handle a vegan diet, that has to be your top concern of course.)

          Just sharing some information and thoughts with you that I hope will help.




          7
          1. Thank you Thea. I know that cats are obligate carnivores, was never sure about the dogs, and frankly afraid to try them on vegan. Very helpful info.




            2
            1. Marilyn Kay: I’m super happy to help. I know several people who switched their dogs to a vegan kibble after seeing how well my dog is doing. As far as I know, every one of those people are happy with their decision. I do, though, highly recommend watching that vet talk I linked to above for anyone who is thinking of making a similar change. It’s worth learning about the benefits and risks and what to look for in terms of diet details. Best of luck to you if you ever give it a try.




              3
          2. Hello Thea, can I just say thank you thank you so much for explaining the details on dog food and sharing with us your lovely dogs experiences.
            My soon to be next attempt since my health has become so much better after 10 years of pain, is to get a dog, a Siberian husky, and your opinion has educated me so much on what used to be the given diet for animals. I had a cat for 21 years and he ate less meat and more of what I was eating, pretty much a middle eastern diet. Thank you again, I’m so motivated, and hoping by the end of the year, I’ll be stronger and more able to take care of my dog in the many ways they deserve.




            2
            1. wanderer: Thanks for your note. I’m rooting for you! I totally understand your desire to want to get a dog and to wait until you feel you can do it right. Dogs are one of my passions, and I have great respect for people like you who are willing to do what it takes to give their dependent a good life. I hope you are able to heal up and get that dog soon. In the meantime, if I may, I want to recommend two books by Patricia McConnell: The Other End of the Leash and For Love Of A Dog. These books did so much to help me understand dogs (and really all animals, including humans!) better and set me off on a path that I never would have dreamed of previously. I think you would enjoy them as prep for getting that dog.

              Best of luck to you!




              1
        2. So, my let’s eat a mix of vegan table scraps (Greek salad, roasted veggies, cherries or blueberries, and only a SMALL amount) and the rest is a freeze dried raw food. They like the brand “small batch dog” the best, however they have eaten other brands like Stella and cheweys as well.

          For a short time, I put them on a dental kibble diet. Cue dermatitis, allergies, extreme itching and inflammation. Ear infections. Yeast infections. I decided that I was right about the diet that I’d been feeding them all along, and put them back on their freeze dried raw food.

          Their teeth are no worse than on the dental diet.

          Their skin, coat, allergies and infections? Well, diet is a dog’s medicine (or poison), too.

          I choose freeze dried raw because it is safer for us (and then), and frankly, less gross than actual raw meat. My dogs love it. They are picky chihuahuas, to boot!

          I figure that dogs really are meant to eat meat. But the cleanest sources, novel proteins, plenty of fruit and veggies, are just as important for them as us.

          No fillers!




          2
        3. You can Google it but I am not aware of any.

          However, one theory I have seen is that predators in the wild have some protection from kidney and other diseases because they eat skin, fur, bone and gristle which effectively perform the same function as dietary fibre in herbivores. Domestic animals fed soft processed foods do not have this benefit. See for example this discussion of the comparative health of cheetahs in the wild versus captive cheetahs
          “Furthermore, it appears that feeding of carcasses can have a positive influence on the occurrence of the previously mentioned disorders. The non-digestible fibre in the diet could have a protective factor both for the animal to chew longer as regards to oral health and on the level of the digestive system and even once absorbed through the intestinal wall”
          http://www.conservalion.com/uploads/7/3/7/4/73745745/dhana_leemans_cheetah_diet_study.pdf

          of course, if you feed carcasses to your pet, you then need to be aware of the risk of parasite transmission. Everything is a trade-off I suppose.

          As for “vegan” options, I don’t think that cats and dogs are well adapted to this. You would probably need to simulate somehow the heavy duty mastication that wild cats and dogs must necessarily engage in, as well as the bone, skin and fur consumption. But a well-planned vegan option may well be superior to conventional, soft, commercially available cat and dog foods.




          1
        4. Cat’s HAVE to eat meat or they will lose their eyesight, live a terrible life and then die. I haven’t seen the video you mentioned, but it is true that most all commercial pet foods are HIGHLY OVERPROCESSED. Way more than human grade food is. Kibble is cooked….whatever the label says, but it’s cooked at such a high temp that nearly all nutritional value is lost and the nutrients are then added back in at the end in a sprayed on oil coat that also makes that food more palatable. Raw food is more nutritious and has much higher bioavailability to dogs and cats. Dogs are technically omnivores, like us, with stronger carnivorous leanings so they CAN get nutrients from plant foods, but like Thea says, not all pet nutrition is created equal, so be aware of that. Dogs have much HIGHER acidity in their stomachs, much SHORTER digestive tracks, and LESS amylase (amylase is only produced in their tummies, where we produce in our saliva as well, so starchy dog and cat diets-including all kibble-have negative effects on pets’ oral health especially) available to them which is why they are evolved to eat more meat than humans are.
          The terrible way people treat livestock does impact our pets, and because they are so much smaller and have shorter lifespans, I would argue it impacts them first and more strongly than the people eating meat.
          That being said, a raw meat diet may be more beneficial to a dog than a high fiber diet. Raw meat sold for PETS (NOT HUMANS!!!! this is not treated the same way: sold for humans, raw meat contains an allowed amount of -fecal matter- bad bacteria because they expect you to cook it; 0% live bad bacteria are allowed to be sold on raw pet food) Another commenter suggested freeze-dried raw, which is good if you or someone you live with or your dog is immune-deficient, a child, or you plan on leaving food out for your pet during the day (frozen raw will rot if not eaten right away when thawed, but it is good for dental health; freeze dried raw needs to be mixed with water usually, but if not, monitor your dogs water intake). Raw food pet diets typically DO include raw veggies mashed into it. The idea is to mimic the amount found in small prey’s digestive tract.
          As far as crystals, I would #1 make sure your dogs is getting -more than-ENOUGH water–in fresh food or from the water bowl, dogs will be 4x more dehydrated than you before they are likely to get up and get a drink, this problem and can get worse with age. #2 work closely with your vet (a holistic one if you can find it! though this is usually even harder than finding a holistic doctor =( ) to find out what likely formed the crystal (mostly) and limit consumption of that mineral–usually calcium, phosphorus, sometimes potassium




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  23. Dr. Greg ER mentions in this video that you can’t just throw dry beans into a crock pot. But that’s how I cook ALL my dry beans. Without soaking them, I put them in the crock pot along with all the other ingredients and 4 hours later on high or 8 hrs later on low they are very soft and ready to eat. At it’s peak cooking, they are simmering. I don’t experience any of the symptoms of toxicity. So does that fact mean they are cooked properly or am I missing something?




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  24. Now I am concerned about millet. I have been reading on various websites that millet, even when cooked properly, has a lot of goitrogens that will hurt the thyroid gland and prevent a person from absorbing iodine. Is this true? I eat puffed millet and it seems like there is one thing after another that one has to be careful in not consuming too much. Does millet really hurt the thyroid? How much is too much?




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    1. I heard the same thing about soy, regarding cooking do not destroys the goitrogens, but then they also mentioned you have to consumed a hell of alot of plant goitrogens before it will effect your thyroid. Have you seen many of the Asian population like in Japan suffer from goiter. I believed it just another scare tactic. Many of those article it starts with one writer and many other writers just picked up on the that ONE PARTICULAR article and repeats the same information. The research may be from JUST ONE SOURCE but you get hundreds of writer saying the same thing, especially if they are just health writers and not science or research people.What you should worry about regarding your thyroid is the BROMINATED and chlorinated flour and flouridated water harming your thyroid.




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  25. The lectin is part of what they called PLANT DEFENSE. The plant DO NOT WANT YOU TO EAT ALL IT “Babies”!!!!. It designed to discouraged herbivores. Makes sense right, eating all their “babies, seeds” will cause the plant species to go extinct, like what happening with the sturgeon and caviar. Humans are eating many species to extinction. But us humans are smart enough to figured it out that by soaking and boiling the beans the lectin is destroyed. Beans are good food, be grateful thankful and plant some of the bean for “NEW LIFE”




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  26. Grew up on a farm with a huge Italian garden. We ate fresh from the garden raw peas, fava beans, chick peas….and never got sick. I’m assuming they are safe to eat???




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    1. Peas are low in lectins and chickpeas are moderate. In addition there are many different types of lectins, some of which are beneficial/healthful. The problem is that lectins do pose a known health risk, so its best to cook them and not eat them raw, until more human studies have been published.

      This study gives some additional info: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Dr_Rajendra_Srivastava/publication/267569996_Saponins_and_lectins_of_Indian_chickpeas_Cicer_arietinum_and_lentils_Lens_culinaris/links/54532d270cf2bccc49095aa0/Saponins-and-lectins-of-Indian-chickpeas-Cicer-arietinum-and-lentils-Lens-culinaris.pdf

      Dr. Ben




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  27. I have been following Dr Gregor and reading all his newsletters for quite a while. It all made sense as I was ready and finally decided to stop eating meat for the many reasons that he explains and my beans and vegetables became my diet, after 4 months, my pain became unbearable and after 6 months, I couldn’t walk anymore. So I stopped eating anything for 3 days and only drank water, and the pain was 50 percent better, but I didn’t believe how such a pure clean diet could affect me so I started to eat the Dr gregor way again, and unfortunately I became bed ridden with pain, so for me it is the lectins, they have been killing my body slowly without me believing that could be the case. My pain has not been explained for over 10 years, but the difference with me being able to play and swim with my grandkids is enormous to my well being mentally and physically.
    I still read Dr Gregors newsletters but he really needs to understand that we may not have the scientific proof yet, and thats my answer to his post on this Topic.




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  28. Dr. Gundr y advises that Goji berries have highest concentration of lectin s that cause leaky gut syndrome. I Quit The Berries After I Got The Leaky Gut. Anybody Else Have experience With These Berries?




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    1. Hey Mike, thanks for writing. I don’t know where he is getting that info from. The only article I see on the National Library of Medicine when Goji berries are cross-referenced with lectins is a study of chemotherapy in mice (always a popular topic of discussion at really HIP dinner parties, right?) at: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=goji+berries+lectins. Try and find his source for the info. The fiber and anti-inflammatory effects of Goji berries should contribute to a healthy gut, not a damaged, one!




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  29. Sorry to add yet another question to this lengthy discussion, but I did not see this addressed. I often use the quick soak method: boil 2 minutes, remove from heat source, and soak for 1 hour. Drain, rinse, the start with fresh water and boil for 15 minutes. The pot then is placed in my Wonder Bag ( maybe it’s spelled Wunder Bag – check Amazon…), a highly insulated bag that keeps the pot of beans and water very hot, though of course not boiling. It takes about 90 minutes in the bag to completely cook the beans. Would you recommend overnight soaking method when using the Wonder Bag to cook kidney beans? Or, is the quick soak method sufficient? Thank you.




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  30. I dispute one of the statements/references, about the time needed to pressure cook red kidney beans and the resulting safety. The quotation, from the Journal of Food Science is, “Pressure cooking without pre-soaking the beans decreased the lectin concentration below detectible levels in 45 minutes. However 60 minutes pressure cooking was required to soften the beans sufficiently to be edible.”

    My go-to source for pressure cooking, Great Vegetarian Cooking Under Pressure by Lorna Sass gives a cooking time for unsoaked kidney beans of 20 to 25 minutes. My experience is that 30 minutes is enough.

    This leaves it unclear whether pressure cooking unsoaked red kidney beans until edible at 30 minutes is safe.




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  31. I have a bag of white bean flour in my pantry…still un-opened…should I trash it…it is made from ground white (raw/uncooked) beans and to be used as a thickener for soups, etc.




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    1. And why would you want to trash it? If you add the flour to soup, it will be cooked and safe to eat.

      Hope this helps,

      Moderator Adam P.




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  32. Thank you you for the clarification!!! I was completely confused after reading the ‘The Plant Paradox’ – all of the mixed communications on the web is totally frustrating. . . .




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  33. I am extremely sensitive and after eating a CAN of kidney beans from Whole Foods I was unable to move for a day and I had severe pain and stiff cervical joints in my neck for a week! Wheat put me in the hospital for a week with 4 doctors standing over my bed shaking their heads. Dr Gundry suggests getting rid of ALL higher lectin foods to reverse autoimmune diseases, which he claims he has done for some of his patients. Dr. Greger’s research on a vegan diet is obviously brilliant! What if we take a vegan diet and remove the higher lectin containing foods such as the notorious kidney beans and cook the lower lectin foods and nightshades, such as tomatoes, which has already shown to be beneficial? I would LOVE to have a longer list of Non-Toxic Lectins! Surely the list must be much longer than the one sited by Dr. Greger: “Tomatoes, lentils, peas, chickpeas, fava beans and other common foods.” Then, there’s sprouting the smaller beans and seeds such as broccoli seeds and fenugreek which seems like a good idea so far… I was looking at a lot of the research on Fenugreek and it has been used medicinally by ancient cultures (Africa, India, and the gardens of charlemagne)
    There was an interesting article in IronMan Magazine:
    http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/fenugreek-the-insulin-gh-tesosterone-link/

    “It appears that fenugreek has the ability to increase the effectiveness of insulin, growth hormone and testosterone—three of your most anabolic hormones. It’s also known as trigonella foenum graecum and is one of the oldest known medicinal herbs—used to maintain respiratory and stomach health. Recently, there has been intense interest in fenugreek in the medical community as mounting data indicate that it’s an antidiabetic agent thanks to its ability to increase insulin sensitivity. Athletes are interested because fenugreek contains a number of anabolic growth agents.
    For example, it contains a variety of amino acids and steroidal saponins, which are the building blocks of various steroids, including testosterone. Analysis also reveals the presence of protodioscin, a chemical also found in the hormone DHEA, which has been shown to boost testosterone in older men.”

    I would love to know more about fenugreek! Is it a lower lectin legume?
    I sprouted it and it tastes good! Dr. Greger can you please comment?




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  34. I’m always concerned about dried beans ground into flour and then products made from them (like falafel). The falafal is deep fried, but presumably, they don’t get as cooked on the inside of the ball. Also, there are now many chips made from ground dried legumes. Since I don’t know, I avoid any legumes that are not first cooked with water before being made into other products/snacks. What do you think about this issue, Dr. Greger?




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  35. Hi, Dani. Some products made from beans are made from cooked and dried beans, others from sprouted, dried, and ground beans, and still others from simply ground raw dried beans. Remember that it depends on the kind of legume whether or not the lectins are harmful. According to this source used in the video, lectins found in lentils, peas, chickpeas, and faba beans are non-toxic, and some lectins may even have anti-cancer properties. There are good reasons not to eat fried foods, due to added fat content and glycotoxins created in the frying process, but I would not worry too much about lectins in falafel. I would just bake it instead of frying it! I hope that helps!




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