Social Distancing, Lockdowns, & Testing: How to Slow the COVID-19 Pandemic

Social Distancing, Lockdowns, & Testing: How to Slow the COVID-19 Pandemic
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What can we learn from other countries and the 1918 pandemic to slow COVID-19?

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

I’ve talked about where the COVID-19 coronavirus came from, and how we might prevent such emergences from animals in the future, but now that it’s spreading human-to-human, what can we do about it?

Social distancing. That’s what each of us can do. Locking down cities, closing nonessential businesses, cancelling gatherings, and encouraging people to shelter-in-place at home are all old-school public health strategies to break every possible chain of transmission. China was condemned for its early response, sanctioning critics and denying the extent of the crisis (referring to it as “preventable and controllable”), similar to the response of other world leaders. But China was later lauded for that same authoritarian approach when it came to successfully enacting extreme quarantine measures. A top WHO official praised China’s efforts as “probably the most ambitious, and I would say, agile and aggressive disease containment effort in history.”

It was, however, too little, too late to contain the disease locally. By the time authorities banned travel out of Wuhan, more than a third of the fourteen million residents had already left the region, whether for the Chinese New Year holiday or to flee before the lockdown of the city went into effect on January 23. One could argue that had local officials not wasted weeks silencing whistleblowers and releasing fake reports, the world could have been spared this pandemic. But the aggressive actions China subsequently did take may have indeed bought us all some time.

Enacting so-called wartime control measures, China initiated the largest community containment effort in history, affecting about three-quarters of a billion people. Borders were closed, cities were sealed off, and people were confined to their homes. Unlike so-called “lockdowns” other countries started instituting, like the U.S. that still allowed people to venture freely outside as long as they respected a certain personal distance, in China, citizens were totally restricted, with permission cards that only allowed them to leave their home every second day for a maximum of thirty minutes for essentials..The policy was criticized by human rights advocates, but it worked. The epidemic immediately started decelerating.

Chinese authorities achieved what many public health experts didn’t think was possible—the containment of the spread of a widely circulating respiratory infection. Within two months, Hubei Province, ground zero where the disease first emerged, reported its first day of no new local cases. “I will praise China again and again,” said the Director-General of the World Health Organization, “because its actions actually help in reducing the spread of [the novel] coronavirus to other countries.” “In many ways, China is actually setting a new standard for outbreak response.”

Of course, the day Hubei Province reported no new cases, the world confirmed its 200,000th case. Would the rest of the world be willing to enact rules one global health policy specialist called “astounding, unprecedented, and medieval”? The command-and-control authority of the Chinese government allowed them to enforce a resource-intensive containment strategy that involved costs to trade, travel, and liberty that many doubted democracies would be able to stomach. Thankfully, successful strategies in countries such as South Korea showed that such draconian measures may not be necessary.

All of the nations that were able to get the disease under control quickly relied on a foundation of testing and tracing. In other words, identify all cases through mass testing, and then trace every possible contact each patient had, to break as many chains of transmission as possible through isolation and quarantine. South Korea had a test approved the first week of February, and, with enough testing, was able to bring the disease under control by the end of the month. With such expansive, well-organized testing, countries like South Korea were able to control the epidemic without resorting to locking down its populace. The World Health Organization took notice. “We have a simple message for all countries,” the Director-General declared, “Test, test, test.”

The United States did not appear to get the message in time. By mid-March, South Korea had already tested more than a quarter million of its citizens, more than five thousand out of every million, compared to fewer than a hundred per million in the United States. Hamstrung by FDA red tape and a series of blunders, sufficient U.S. testing capacity failed to materialize before the window on containment closed. It’s humbling to realize that the U.S. and South Korea recorded their first cases on the same day, yet the ensuing epidemics took very different courses.

Once containment fails, the strategy then shifts to suppression and mitigation. If you don’t know who’s infected, all you can do is try to prevent everyone from coming in contact with anyone. By April, most Americans were being told to stay home to try to curb the spread. As Dr. Fauci said at a press conference, “If it looks like you’re overreacting, you’re probably doing the right thing.”

Closing nonessential businesses and encouraging people to stay inside to limit social contacts are efforts taken in an attempt to “flatten the curve” before it flattens us. Flatten the epidemic curve––in other words, to slow the spread of the illness to more evenly distribute the cases over time. This would give health systems time to scale up and respond effectively—not only to treat COVID-19, but to maintain overall care continuity. During the recent Ebola crisis in West Africa, for example, deaths increased from other causes as well, due to the saturation of the healthcare system (as well as the death of healthcare workers).

School closures are more controversial, as they could threaten the availability of the 29 percent of healthcare providers in this country who live in households that would need to take care of young children. One model suggested that school closures might have to reduce COVID-19 cases by more than 25 percent to make up for the loss of healthcare workers in terms of an overall net reduction in COVID-19 mortality. A 25 percent drop may be achievable for pandemic influenza, a disease in which children may play a critical role in community transmission, but children don’t appear to be the main drivers of the transmission of COVID-19.

Until an effective vaccine is widely available, likely not until 2021 at the earliest, population lockdowns can help rob the virus of susceptible hosts. Once such measures are relaxed, though, the disease could come roaring back. In the pandemic of 1918, for example, some U.S. cities experienced a second peak in mortality following the lifting of social-distancing measures. Check out what happened in St. Louis. As soon as they detected a doubling of the baseline mortality, they instituted school closures and a ban on public gatherings. And  you can see how they were successfully able to bend the curve. So they decided it was time to relax the social distancing, and they got a big spike in new cases that required a reinstitution of the shutdown measures.

But the important thing is they instituted the social distancing early, within days of their first case. Compare that to how Philadelphia reacted. It took them weeks to shut the city down, and they suffered the consequences. Here’s a graph of that double hump death rate in St. Louis, compared to what they suffered in Philadelphia. And here’s the mass graves they then had to dig in the city of brotherly love. It’s better to be six feet apart, than six feet under.

By periodically pumping the brake with flattening-the-curve strategies like shelter-in-place ordinances to slow community transmission, the hope is that we can turn the initial tidal wave of cases into a series of smaller successive waves our healthcare capability can more safely ride out. If not, more intensive care units in U.S. hospitals may become overwhelmed, just as they did in Italy, and doctors will have to make triage decisions as to who lives and who dies.

Triage protocols have actually already been published. First in line for ventilators are those who are most likely to survive both in the short term and over the subsequent year. Then the priority goes to children and adults under the age of 50. Those 50 to 69 are in the next tier, followed by those aged 70 to 84, and, finally, lowest priority is given to patients 85  and older. If there’s a tie, life-saving ventilation may be allocated based on some form of lottery, like flipping a coin.

In the New England Journal of Medicine, a preeminent group of medical ethics experts wrote, “[W]e believe that removing a patient from a ventilator or an ICU bed to provide it to others in need is also justifiable and that patients should be made aware of this possibility when at admission [to the hospital,]” adding, “the decision to withdraw a scarce resource to save others is not an act of killing and does not require the patient’s consent.” Wow, can you imagine? To relieve the front-line clinicians of the burden, they suggest the designation of “triage officers” to make the decisions.

The countries that were able to mobilize the fastest and have been able to best control COVID-19 were those that had learned hard lessons from previous outbreaks. China, Hong Kong, Singapore, and Taiwan bear the memories of SARS. More recently, South Korea suffered a MERS outbreak in 2015, triggered by a businessman returning from the Middle East. The country’s test-and-trace infrastructures were therefore in place, and its populations primed to sacrifice for the promise of containment. If outbreaks involving dozens or even hundreds of deaths can rally countries to a state of pandemic preparedness, perhaps the thousands or even millions of deaths from COVID-19 will orient countries of the world to the mission of pandemic prevention. But first, what can each of us do individually to ride out the current pandemic? That’s what I’ll cover next.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Motion graphics by AvoMedia

Image credit: JamesAlan1986 via Wikipedia. Image has been modified.

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

I’ve talked about where the COVID-19 coronavirus came from, and how we might prevent such emergences from animals in the future, but now that it’s spreading human-to-human, what can we do about it?

Social distancing. That’s what each of us can do. Locking down cities, closing nonessential businesses, cancelling gatherings, and encouraging people to shelter-in-place at home are all old-school public health strategies to break every possible chain of transmission. China was condemned for its early response, sanctioning critics and denying the extent of the crisis (referring to it as “preventable and controllable”), similar to the response of other world leaders. But China was later lauded for that same authoritarian approach when it came to successfully enacting extreme quarantine measures. A top WHO official praised China’s efforts as “probably the most ambitious, and I would say, agile and aggressive disease containment effort in history.”

It was, however, too little, too late to contain the disease locally. By the time authorities banned travel out of Wuhan, more than a third of the fourteen million residents had already left the region, whether for the Chinese New Year holiday or to flee before the lockdown of the city went into effect on January 23. One could argue that had local officials not wasted weeks silencing whistleblowers and releasing fake reports, the world could have been spared this pandemic. But the aggressive actions China subsequently did take may have indeed bought us all some time.

Enacting so-called wartime control measures, China initiated the largest community containment effort in history, affecting about three-quarters of a billion people. Borders were closed, cities were sealed off, and people were confined to their homes. Unlike so-called “lockdowns” other countries started instituting, like the U.S. that still allowed people to venture freely outside as long as they respected a certain personal distance, in China, citizens were totally restricted, with permission cards that only allowed them to leave their home every second day for a maximum of thirty minutes for essentials..The policy was criticized by human rights advocates, but it worked. The epidemic immediately started decelerating.

Chinese authorities achieved what many public health experts didn’t think was possible—the containment of the spread of a widely circulating respiratory infection. Within two months, Hubei Province, ground zero where the disease first emerged, reported its first day of no new local cases. “I will praise China again and again,” said the Director-General of the World Health Organization, “because its actions actually help in reducing the spread of [the novel] coronavirus to other countries.” “In many ways, China is actually setting a new standard for outbreak response.”

Of course, the day Hubei Province reported no new cases, the world confirmed its 200,000th case. Would the rest of the world be willing to enact rules one global health policy specialist called “astounding, unprecedented, and medieval”? The command-and-control authority of the Chinese government allowed them to enforce a resource-intensive containment strategy that involved costs to trade, travel, and liberty that many doubted democracies would be able to stomach. Thankfully, successful strategies in countries such as South Korea showed that such draconian measures may not be necessary.

All of the nations that were able to get the disease under control quickly relied on a foundation of testing and tracing. In other words, identify all cases through mass testing, and then trace every possible contact each patient had, to break as many chains of transmission as possible through isolation and quarantine. South Korea had a test approved the first week of February, and, with enough testing, was able to bring the disease under control by the end of the month. With such expansive, well-organized testing, countries like South Korea were able to control the epidemic without resorting to locking down its populace. The World Health Organization took notice. “We have a simple message for all countries,” the Director-General declared, “Test, test, test.”

The United States did not appear to get the message in time. By mid-March, South Korea had already tested more than a quarter million of its citizens, more than five thousand out of every million, compared to fewer than a hundred per million in the United States. Hamstrung by FDA red tape and a series of blunders, sufficient U.S. testing capacity failed to materialize before the window on containment closed. It’s humbling to realize that the U.S. and South Korea recorded their first cases on the same day, yet the ensuing epidemics took very different courses.

Once containment fails, the strategy then shifts to suppression and mitigation. If you don’t know who’s infected, all you can do is try to prevent everyone from coming in contact with anyone. By April, most Americans were being told to stay home to try to curb the spread. As Dr. Fauci said at a press conference, “If it looks like you’re overreacting, you’re probably doing the right thing.”

Closing nonessential businesses and encouraging people to stay inside to limit social contacts are efforts taken in an attempt to “flatten the curve” before it flattens us. Flatten the epidemic curve––in other words, to slow the spread of the illness to more evenly distribute the cases over time. This would give health systems time to scale up and respond effectively—not only to treat COVID-19, but to maintain overall care continuity. During the recent Ebola crisis in West Africa, for example, deaths increased from other causes as well, due to the saturation of the healthcare system (as well as the death of healthcare workers).

School closures are more controversial, as they could threaten the availability of the 29 percent of healthcare providers in this country who live in households that would need to take care of young children. One model suggested that school closures might have to reduce COVID-19 cases by more than 25 percent to make up for the loss of healthcare workers in terms of an overall net reduction in COVID-19 mortality. A 25 percent drop may be achievable for pandemic influenza, a disease in which children may play a critical role in community transmission, but children don’t appear to be the main drivers of the transmission of COVID-19.

Until an effective vaccine is widely available, likely not until 2021 at the earliest, population lockdowns can help rob the virus of susceptible hosts. Once such measures are relaxed, though, the disease could come roaring back. In the pandemic of 1918, for example, some U.S. cities experienced a second peak in mortality following the lifting of social-distancing measures. Check out what happened in St. Louis. As soon as they detected a doubling of the baseline mortality, they instituted school closures and a ban on public gatherings. And  you can see how they were successfully able to bend the curve. So they decided it was time to relax the social distancing, and they got a big spike in new cases that required a reinstitution of the shutdown measures.

But the important thing is they instituted the social distancing early, within days of their first case. Compare that to how Philadelphia reacted. It took them weeks to shut the city down, and they suffered the consequences. Here’s a graph of that double hump death rate in St. Louis, compared to what they suffered in Philadelphia. And here’s the mass graves they then had to dig in the city of brotherly love. It’s better to be six feet apart, than six feet under.

By periodically pumping the brake with flattening-the-curve strategies like shelter-in-place ordinances to slow community transmission, the hope is that we can turn the initial tidal wave of cases into a series of smaller successive waves our healthcare capability can more safely ride out. If not, more intensive care units in U.S. hospitals may become overwhelmed, just as they did in Italy, and doctors will have to make triage decisions as to who lives and who dies.

Triage protocols have actually already been published. First in line for ventilators are those who are most likely to survive both in the short term and over the subsequent year. Then the priority goes to children and adults under the age of 50. Those 50 to 69 are in the next tier, followed by those aged 70 to 84, and, finally, lowest priority is given to patients 85  and older. If there’s a tie, life-saving ventilation may be allocated based on some form of lottery, like flipping a coin.

In the New England Journal of Medicine, a preeminent group of medical ethics experts wrote, “[W]e believe that removing a patient from a ventilator or an ICU bed to provide it to others in need is also justifiable and that patients should be made aware of this possibility when at admission [to the hospital,]” adding, “the decision to withdraw a scarce resource to save others is not an act of killing and does not require the patient’s consent.” Wow, can you imagine? To relieve the front-line clinicians of the burden, they suggest the designation of “triage officers” to make the decisions.

The countries that were able to mobilize the fastest and have been able to best control COVID-19 were those that had learned hard lessons from previous outbreaks. China, Hong Kong, Singapore, and Taiwan bear the memories of SARS. More recently, South Korea suffered a MERS outbreak in 2015, triggered by a businessman returning from the Middle East. The country’s test-and-trace infrastructures were therefore in place, and its populations primed to sacrifice for the promise of containment. If outbreaks involving dozens or even hundreds of deaths can rally countries to a state of pandemic preparedness, perhaps the thousands or even millions of deaths from COVID-19 will orient countries of the world to the mission of pandemic prevention. But first, what can each of us do individually to ride out the current pandemic? That’s what I’ll cover next.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Motion graphics by AvoMedia

Image credit: JamesAlan1986 via Wikipedia. Image has been modified.

Doctor's Note

If you’ve missed any of this series so far, you can catch up with:

Next, we look at symptoms and immunity:

You can download the whole series (for free) right now, here, and take an even deeper dive in my new book How to Survive a Pandemic (note: all my proceeds from this book are donated to pandemic prevention charities).

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

205 responses to “Social Distancing, Lockdowns, & Testing: How to Slow the COVID-19 Pandemic

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  1. ‘perhaps the deaths from COVID-19 will orient nations toward the mission of prevention’

    The connection between virus outbreaks in humans and our interaction with animals is new information.
    In fact, all of this kind of information is new to me since the beginning of the pandemic and has followed the ‘accidental’ path of watching “What the Health” on to the How not to Die Cookbook and How Not to Diet and now the pandemic book.

    I’m confused that popular media outlets really don’t make the connection between animals and these outbreaks, especially as it relates to how many of these animals we eat.

    I’ve noticed that Dr. Greger refrains from accusations of conspiracy. In How Not to Diet the obesity epidemic isn’t described as the result of sinister corporate marketing, just businesses doing what businesses do.

    But what about wet markets, commercial farming and other potential contributors of these global threats? Nothing sinister about these connections being discussed in mainstream media?

    1. A simple web search of terms “wet markets”, or “commercial farming pandemic threat” turns up many results from major news outlets and major print.

      1. Thanks for that. I hadn’t gone looking for the information beyond what I’ve been finding here. My daily fare of CTV and Apple News hasn’t mentioned any of this information beyond the New York Times’ “The End of Meat is Here.”

    2. / … popular media outlets really don’t make the connection between animals and these outbreaks… But what about wet markets, commercial farming and other potential contributors of these global threats? Nothing sinister about these connections being discussed in mainstream media? /

      That’s where grass-roots efforts come in. It’s up to us who care about these things to get the message out. The media will follow our lead eventually.

    3. It’s the same reason media outlets don’t talk about all of the lawsuits against drug companies and the tens of billions paid out annually. The corporate sponsorship of the industries in question.

    4. Bill Gates tells us he has the answer for prevention that is fool proof. He wants to make them mandatory. I heard that he is not an engineer or a doctor. never finished college, not an epidemiologist, not a virologist or was he elected. Documented thief, sterilized millions, parallelized thousands of children, self proclaimed population reduction expert, and owns virus patents, yet he owns vaccination companies. Do you smell a conflict of interest somewhere?

  2. Wearing masks and social distancing involve ‘following rules’ and ‘thinking of others’ which some people daily express that “freedom” to them is all about not having to follow rules or thinking of anyone else but themselves.

    That disease is ravaging America even worse than all the others.

    1. Reality, rules from these people are never for our good. They are to divide and conquer. These rules make people afraid of each other and make them more vulnerable to the disease.

  3. How horribly disappointing this video is from dr Gregor. Being a health care professional for over 33 years , many of the things ins this video are so incorrect Hospitals were empty, medical professional laid off, took a cut in pay and we’re furloughed. Also dr Gregor doesn’t mention once about the successful treatment of this “flu” with higher dose vitamin C. Zinc. Colloidal silver. I thought dr Gregor stands for health. Also as far as the vaccine….. there’s a reason over $4 billion has been paid out in vaccine injury. It’s clear to me that Dr Gregor at some point has been bought. Shame on you

    1. Greger reports what the evidence shows not the false claims of people selling ‘alternative health’ services and products. He prefers facts to fantasies.

    2. You’re a little too harsh, but not too far off base. It is very confusing how during a pandemic, we lay off medical staff and have even permanently closed some hospitals. I’m also tired of comparing testing in SK to the US, which is VASTLY larger and more populous, so it’s a poor comparison. I also don’t know how you can trust the data coming from China, nor do I know how you can trust the WHO. We’ve been lied do by our “medical experts” on this too many times. Wear masks? The idea was ridiculed by Fauci and the Surgeon General at first, and then embraced. Which is right? How do I know? I know we’ve been lied to, but which time? Nietzsche wrote, “Not that you lied to me, but that I no longer believe you, has shaken me.” How correct that is. Add to that the fact that, per CDC numbers, the CFR is .4% and the IFR is .26%…and those are death numbers that Dr. Birx says are 25% inflated, and an asymptomatic rate (35%) that appears too low. Given the cancer screenings and treatments missed, the routine checkups skipped, the child immunizations delayed or missed, plus the psychological effects on school children (who don’t fully understand why they can’t go to the playground or school) and old folks (who are locked down like prisoners in retirement communities and nursing homes), I don’t understand how this “cure” isn’t substantially worse than the disease. I’m not even mentioning the effects on the economy, which are devastating, especially to the ones who were poor to start with (but we always hurt the poor first, so that’s nothing new).

      Remember “15 days to flatten the curve”? What happened to that? When did it become “flatten the economy until we find a cure, which we may never find and if we find one it might be worse than the disease”?

      We’ve been lied to by every side on this. It’s pathetic.

      1. Those of you who want to claim that Covid-19 is just the same as seasonal flu are deluding yourselves.
        Fact- of those hospitalized during flu season, the mortality rate is 3.4% in US as a whole.
        My western state has a very healthy, quite young population. We also have excellent medical care.
        The mortality rate for those Covid patients who need hospital care is 14%.
        Several young people in their 20’s with no known health issues have died from Covid. Also quite a few under 60.
        Wake up, this isn’t just an average flu season.

        1. Also, I get tired of people claiming that the mortality rate is lower than claimed because we need to take into account all asymptomatic people. Not logical thinking.
          You need to realize that in a normal flu season there are also asymptomatic people, and a lot who have a mild case. They don’t get counted because they don’t seek medical care and are never tested or counted.

      2. Thank you for your comment, it certainly needed to be said -WE are being led by agendas that are clearly not in OUR interests! Wearing a mask, for one, for even a few minutes makes me feel light-headed and NOT WELL. I almost passed out on the bus the other day; and this is supposed to help me and KEEP ME SAFE? -are you kidding me. ONLY Ware a mask when YOU are sick and exhibiting symptoms -now that will help protect other people. I truly like and respect Dr. Gregor and credit him for turning me into a very healthy 70 year old Vegan four years ago. Read his book twice! :) …but I have to say he’s got it wrong in this COVID19 instance.

        …and, if I may also add, he is also very wrong where Fluoridated Water is concerned. In fact, there is a landmark trial, directly involving the EPA, ending today on the fate of continuing water fluoridation in the USA… it was live streamed over the ZOOM App over the last two weeks. Stay tuned, WE may finally be rid of this criminally stupid, IQ lowering toxic addition to our water supply.

        Please… come-on Doc, your family saved your beloved Grandma, all those years ago, by looking and working outside the box, it’s time you start doing this again with these two pressing issues discussed above.

        Sincerely,

        Louis

        1. Fluoride Action Network made a paper a few months ago showing the most recent studies regarding fluoride:
          http://fluoridealert.org/wp-content/uploads/FAN-Neurotoxicity-One-pager-3-10-20.-pdf.pdf
          References at http://fluoridealert.org/references3/

          It also had another paper:
          http://fluoridealert.org/wp-content/uploads/10facts.pdf

          The graph at Fact 2 reminded me of a quote from Rene Dubos:

          “When the tide is receding from the beach it is easy to have the illusion that one can empty the ocean by removing the water with a pail.” Mirage of Health.

          I haven’t read that book. I saw it in a video concerning vaccines:
          https://youtube.com/watch?v=KtN0PMJOOjM

          1. Total and complete hogwash. Right up there with flat earth “evidence”.
            Sure fluoride is toxic…in large quantities, just like water and oxygen will also kill you in large quantities…and that’s the truth.

      3. I’ve always favoured the cock-up explanation to the conspiracy explanation for these kinds of things.

        As for being ‘lied to’, I highly doubt it. China possibly but the WHO, CDC etc? Those places leak like sieves It’s unlikely either of yhem could keep a secret for long even if they wanted to.

        As more information and data comes in, scientists and other rational people often revise their hypotheses and recommended treatments/prevention measures. Assuming that there is some sinister explanation for changes in policy and assessments as opposed to these being the normal consequences of a steep learning curve, seems unwarranted.

        However, conspiracy theories have always been enormously popular. When I was younger it was the Illuminati, the Rosicrucians, the Masons or whatever who were purportedly responsible for all kinds of ills. Before that, we used to burn alleged witches for the same reason. Now it’s the WHO, FDA/CDC, Bill Gates etc. The names of the supposed baddies have changed but it’s the same kind of thinking at work. Who was it who said that we should never ascribe to malice, that which can be adequately explained by stupidity?,

    3. To suggest that Dr. Greger was somehow bought without any evidence is extremely disrespectful Gloria. Dr. Greger has dedicated his life to sharing fact based information on health. You should learn some manners.

    4. Gloria,

      I don’t know what kind of “health professional” you actually are, but my daughter is a hospital nurse, and her observations are quite the opposite of yours. In fact, hospitals still lack sufficient PPEs; her last comment was that she’s been wearing the same mask for days, if not weeks.

      The rest of your comments sound like quackery. Dr. Greger, in contrast, reviews nutrition research papers published in peer reviewed journals, and presents the information in videos such as these. In other words, real science. You might be well served to do the same. Instead of spreading unsubstantiated rumors and innuendo.

    5. Gloria, it seems like you’ve bought into the conspiracy cool aide that Pam Popper currently pedals. Popper has gone off the deep end.

      1. Popper claims to have a doctorate. She’s always been very coy about who awarded it to her. My suspicion is that it is one of those mail order diploma mill ‘doctorates’. No doubt, very useful if you want to sell your services, products and books to the public but somewhat misleading to my mind if not deliberately deceptive.

        Does anybody if Popper actually has a doctorate from an accredited institution?

        1. You are right about her being cagey about it.

          She has 2 Ph.D.’s is what I read but I could only find one.

          Clayton College of Natural Health in Birmingham, Ala., by correspondence.

          I haven’t really tried for long. But it was hard enough to find that one and the concept that there might be another one.

          She has accomplished quite a bit as a lobbyist and is WFPB-oriented. I am not comfortable with some of the things she says but when she steps into WFPB I do find a lot of information. But you are right that she really does have a cagey side.

          1. Thanks Deb. Claytons’s was unaccredited and went out of business some years ago.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton_College_of_Natural_Health

            It’s amusing to me because in Australia describing something as a ‘Clayton’s’ doctorate or whatever means fake or ersatz.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claytons

            It’s little wonder that mainstream science so seldom takes people like Campbell and Greger seriously. After all, they regularly associate with people like Popper who parade around calling themselves ‘doctor’ but who do not have a qualification from an accredited educational institution. That sort of thing tends to tarnish one’s credibility.

            1. Deb and Mr. Fumblefingers,

              Thanks for your sleuthing and the info you posted here.

              My first husband got one of those mail order “PhDs” (after we were divorced); I think he wrote a book report. Then he printed up business cards, and passed himself off as an expert, I forget in exactly what, some sort of health related field. Scary.

    6. My thoughts exactly! And why isn’t the fact that the Imperial College was wrong by 96% and the mortality rate is ONLY 0.26% compared to those who have died of flu vaccines (0.5%)!!! Go to the worldometer and see how it compares to influenza and other causes of death. Also no mention of Sweden or Japan (they didn’t lock down) and no mention that in NY lockdowns did not prevent transmission!
      I could go on but this is a complex situation so we need to look at every factor and angle.

      1. Japan doesn’t have anywhere near the same comorbidities as the USA.

        For instance, over 66% of Americans are obese. The rates of every comorbidity is so different that it could be unwise to do things the way they do and expect the same outcomes.

        When it comes to the flu, the reported deaths for our worst flu year was 8,000 and that is the only year people arguing from that direction tend to use. The adjusted numbers for that year are 60,000 but with COVID we haven’t counted a few months worth of nursing home deaths or at home deaths and there were not enough tests even for the sick people for the first 2 months and sick people were routinely sent home at that point, so COVID will eventually be adjusted upwards, too and will have rates more than triple the worst flu season’s adjusted rates.

        Plus, they only did a simplistic process for extra deaths. For instance, because there were so few car accidents and other accidents, Israel had 500 fewer deaths with COVID so their COVID bump disappears with all of the lives saved from shutting down.

        1. Not sure it’s a good idea to argue statistics, but one thing is for sure – they have been pushing hard for high Covid numbers. The question is why?
          https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html [https://www.cdc.gov/flu/images/about/burden/flu-hopitalizations-facebook-600px.jpg] Disease Burden of Influenza | CDC The burden of influenza disease in the United States can vary widely and is determined by a number of factors including the characteristics of circulating viruses, the timing of the season, how well the vaccine is working to protect against illness, and how many people got vaccinated. While the impact of flu varies, it places a substantial …
          http://www.cdc.gov

    7. You are 100% right! This virus is easier to to prevent and cure than the regular flu. No one on a balanced WPFD who gets plenty of water and exercise in fresh air and sunshine can get it or transmit it, unless they are forced to stay at home or wear a mask or lose their job or social distance or get in environment that is being thoroughly disinfected continually with chemicals. Every one of the measures are specifically designed to weaken the immune system, including vaccinations. Every business is an essential business, except the CDC and other agencies that are trying to oppress the population. After the shut down of NYC the cases kept going up for months, as did the deaths. Being in a crowded, polluted city weakens the immune system. When they began to open NYC the cases and deaths did not spike, simply because about all the people with weak enough immune systems already were sick or dead. When people had TB, which is a lot more difficult to “cure”, they isolated the sick people, not the well.
      How do we get herd immunity? Not by vaccinations or throwing people together in hospitals. We get it by strengthening our bodies while being exposed to pathogens all around us, Some are good soldiers that thrive on proper life style and diet. The others are the challenges that keep the soldiers in practice so they will not become lazy and ineffective.

      1. Marcy, you have an excellent point that I never see mentioned. There are probably many people who are within their ideal weight, regularly exercise outdoors in the sunshine, eat a WFPB diet, and thus have a healthy enough immune system to fend off COVID-19 (or the seasonal flu) in the first place.  And that should have been the message that CDC promulgated, instead of mass hysteria which caused perfectly healthy people to fear imminent death from this viral threat and convinced governors and mayors to shut down their economies.  The message should have been that we urgently need to improve the health of the US population: choose a more healthy diet, exercise more, lose weight, and get outside to reap the benefits of sunshine and fresh air, thus increasing the body’s ability to resist this and other (probably more deadly) viruses that China sends our way in the future from their research labs/ wet markets and at the same time decreasing the incidence of chronic diseases in our nation.

        By the way, the prior versions of coronavirus were found to spread through shared toilets/interconnected bathroom drains systems, and through central air conditioning systems, both of which are common in apartment buildings, nursing homes and cruise ships. So locking down NYC residents in their high rise apartments would probably spread the virus, which is exactly what happened.  According to the NY study, the majority of hospitalized patients had been sheltering in place in their homes. “NY Gov Cuomo announced the surprising results of a large survey: two out of every three people hospitalized for COVID-19 in NY were sheltering in place at home.  Calling the statistic ‘shocking,’ Cuomo said, ‘We were thinking that maybe we were going to find a higher percentage of essential employees who were getting sick because they were going to work, that these may be nurses, doctors, transit workers. That’s not the case, and they were predominantly at home.'”

        As for the better results in Asian countries like South Korea, Japan and Taiwan, note that they have had more of their population exposed to prior versions of the coronavirus compared to the US. This might possibly increase their resistance to new coronavirus strains, as does the fact that they may have a healthier population than we do in the US. The ethnic group said to be overrepresented among COVID-19 cases is also the most obese. The prevalence of obesity in the US was 42.4% in 2017-2018.  Non-Hispanic blacks had the highest age-adjusted prevalence of obesity  (49.6%).

        1. How do the black population get so fat? It falls on the backs of other people who work for a living. The fat people are predominately those who rely on food stamps and other government aid. They didn’t earn the money, it’s free, we will get some next month, so why worry about spending it wisely on healthy food? Don’t worry about saving, as they will always help us when we get in trouble. Health care is free when we get sick. Entitlements are the biggest burden on the economy we have and the measures that we have been told to use to keep us safe, more than doubled that burden, not counting the billions that businesses had to spend to protect people from herd immunity. They put up barriers, hired social distancing and disinfecting personnel, put down traffic signs on floors, doors, and sidewalks, mandated PPE. They reduced the occupation capacity of stores. All of these things greatly reduced revenues of stores that were allowed to open, besides greatly increasing expenses. People have to be crazy to accept this kind of communist control.

          1. Reality is not discerned through an anti-communist lens. People of all colors are fat because of habit and culture. One of the biggest problems of American discourse is polarizing divisive opinions rather than scientific objective analysis. That said, politicians are not scientists and today’s scientists are too often politicized. What is lost by all this nonsensical side-taking is the truth.

            1. You will notice I did not single out the black people, but all the poor that are on food stamps, who get fat from eating unhealthy food that they get “free”. But it is not free. Not only do working people have to pay for it with their taxes, but also those who eat it have to pay for it with poor health and premature death.

              1. Marcy, look around you. Fat people are everywhere not just those on food stamps. Your ideological bent is making you appear dumb and blind to the facts of reality. It is a cultural problem, not a socialist problem. Expand your vision, please. This is not 1950 and there is not a Red under your bed. The red scare was a psyop, just like the handling of Covid. How better to control us than through Fear.

    8. What about unintended consequences of closing down society – irreparable damage to underserved population, increased mental health issues, limiting health access for other medical concerns, to name a few. Mortality rate isn’t as horrific as we were told, and recovery rate is excellent.

      Really, not interested in hearing about American selfishness. Average American has sacrificed a lot. Many won’t ever recover.

      Why are we seeing this info NOW?

      1. Polly,

        My working poor friends are doing better than when they had to go to work. They are making more money, their student loans and rents are on hold. The utilities and credit card companies and government with taxes are all helping them.

        They are the happiest people that I know with COVID being here.

      2. None of this was unintended. It was carefully planned to bankrupt the country and the rest of the world, so the rich communists could take control of the world. Just think of how many lazy poor people will vote for democrats to keep the money flowing, only to find out that their money has turned to play money?

        1. Agreed, Marcy!   Our president said soon after taking office that Communist China is our biggest threat. I am in no way condemning people of Chinese ethnicity in the US–they are wonderful people, very intelligent and hard working, with great family values–I am talking about the Chinese Communist Party, which is currently saber rattling against Taiwan, Hong Kong and India and working in a less obvious way to undermine our country, traditions and democracy.  I agree with those who feel that the “accidental” release and worldwide spread of COVID-19 was no accident. And we can be sure that the Wuhan lab and China’s “bat woman” are researching other virus strains that are much more deadly than COVID-19.

          Way back in 1953 China was openly contemplating how to take over resource-rich regions of the Western world (specifically the US and Australia, as I recall) without destroying the infrastructure as would happen with nuclear attacks. The double whammy of COVID-19 that the CCP sent our way from their “research” (read bioweapons) lab and the race riots that they are probably financing has worked like a charm. First, with the assistance of a prominent Wall Street consulting firm, China convinced our manufacturing base to move to China.  The end game (according to an article that actually appeared in China Daily) was to initially underpay the Chinese workers, and then slowly raise wages so that Western companies would abandon the factories, and the Chinese government could take them over, having spent not one penny on setting up a huge manufacturing base in China. Brilliant scheme! Second, in addition, the Chinese government stole intellectual property from those US companies operating in China. Third, China bribed US research professors to share information. Chinese students performing research activities in US research labs are required to disclose any relevant research being done in the US labs to the CCP.  So China has a treasure trove of research that they did not have to finance themselves, just as with the manufacturing base. Some professors (including a prominent chemistry professor from Harvard) have recently been caught accepting money from China in exchange for sharing US research and have been charged with a crime. 

          Since the money is laundered through various intermediaries, it is hard to say what other people in addition to university professors and Chinese students are being paid to further the CCP goal of stealing our research and gaining US public support for socialism and communism. China could well eventually take over the US by buying out struggling companies at post-COVID-19 and post-riot fire sale prices and/or by convincing the populace to actually elect communist sympathizers to control our nation.  Who knows how many other entities might be on the CCP payroll–Antifa? the WHO? universities? media outlets? Big Tech? left-leaning journalists?  big city mayors? even US lawmakers? Sadly, few in the US perceive this threat to the existence of our country as we know it.

          1. Big on speculation, little on actual proof, hardly informative for a blog on nutrition, Caroline. Nothing mentioned about endemic corruption, including your President, with his Operation Warp Speed. Who do you think will benefit when they try to force us to buy the 300 million vaccines they have ordered? The Chinese? Ideology is wearing blinders that limit one’s view of reality. Take them off.
            https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/06/16/fact-sheet-explaining-operation-warp-speed.html

      3. Polly, the reason you didn’t hear it before, was because this info has been carefully hidden from public view and when anyone with a little intelligence actually speaks out, there is a back lash of lies to squelch it. Nothing is more dangerous than the truth to those who are stealing our liberties and livelihoods right out from under our noses. We are required to obey and “shut up.” Just take some $ugar with the bitter poison they are giving us so we can at least die happy like they do in N Korea.

    9. When videos and posts with alternative narratives are taken down because big tech, government and intelligentsia believe we aren’t adult enough to read/hear ALL information and make an informed decision, and when I’m bullied as ignorant with the word “science” and “conspiracy” to shut me up when science has been proven wrong (and conspiracies proven right) time and again, I know I am right in being skeptical. People like to laugh off as conspiracy anything that goes against the mainstream narrative spouted by the beautiful, popular kids on TV. Yet, time and again they’ve lied. All you have to do is read a few history books to know this. Alternative narratives speak of bumping mortality numbers by blaming Covid on suicides, accidents, people who died of pre-existing conditions – all in an effort to get us ginned up to the point destroying everything that we hold dear and permitting government to stomp all over our civil liberties. Alternative narratives speak of ventilators being a death sentence, blowing out lungs while alternative therapies have had wild success but we can’t hear that, no, we are in Soviet Russia / East Germany now. How about the clip of Dr. Michael Ryan of the WHO saying “Now we NEED to go and look in families to find those people who may be sick and REMOVE them and isolate them in a safe and dignified manner” (where we can’t oversee what is happening to our loved ones because it’s quarantined)? Who do these people think they are? My daughter didn’t visit for FOUR months. My toddler grandson makes strange when he sees me. What exactly is the average age of people dying? Why are there whistle blower nurses telling of egregious, criminal activities happening in hospitals? Why did my neighbor tell me that all three of her healthcare worker kids report our local hospital is empty while her best friend’s breast tumor removal that was scheduled for early February is delayed indefinitely? Why would a viral video of two ER doctors presenting a different narrative be taken down? Are they less scientific than other doctors? Why is the incompetent, bloated kakistocracy called the UN running health policy? I expected more from Dr. Greger than to jump on the hysterical, criminally concocted, overblown and hyped Covid band wagon. Totally disgusted. And as a Canadian, I’m sick of seeing everything through a Trump lens. Yawn… I have TDFS – Trump Derangement Fatigue Syndrome. I know. Orange Man Bad. Got it the first 10,000 times I heard it.

        1. “‘All roads lead to Rome,’ says the tradition, and analyzing the last 75 years of political and diplomatic events of the last six popes, it is increasingly clear that all roads since 1939… ‘lead to the Vatican’.” El Libro Negro del Vaticano, by Eric Frattini.

            1. Thanks for the link, Marcy. Perhaps this will not play out as Bill Gates expected! Friends tell me that they won’t get the yearly flu shot any longer. Probably many people (including me!) used to think that “anti-vaxxers” were some sort of a fringe group. But this push by Bill Gates for everyone to be vaccinated for COVID-19 has given a lot of free publicity for their concerns about the dangers associated with vaccinations.

              I wish Gates had put as much money as he invested in vaccine development into instead portraying those who died of COVID-19 as canaries in the coal mine, bringing to light the consequences of our poor lifestyle choices (including diet) and our polluted environment. People seem terrified of contracting this virus, so it would have been a once in a lifetime opportunity for CDC and the medical establishment to push lifestyle change of the sort championed by Ornish, Barnard, Esselstyn and Dr. Greger. Sadly, there are still many people who are unaware that losing weight, exercising more, and eating a WFPB diet will help to prevent, or possibly even reverse, these chronic diseases associated with the more severe form of the illness from COVID-19. It is tragic that this opportunity to educate the public was missed.

              1. Caroline, Gates isn’t interested in helping people live better or even survive. If I didn’t know someone else even worse, I would call him the greatest threat to poor humanity on earth. I heard him say that he was intending to greatly reduce the world population with vaccines.

    10. I wholeheartedly agree…been watching his videos for years and years and years (12 years vegan; 8% body-fat); now, however, Dr. G merely carries the WHO’s water, the same organization that said there is no evidence of human-to-human transmissions (and that children as early as 4 years old should be taught to pleasure themselves while they explore the sexual spectrum).

      This video was disgusting Chinese propaganda (and I only made it to the 3 minute mark).

      Surely he mentioned that looting and rioting will only exacerbate the destruction caused by the Chinese cover-up later in the video, right?

      ““Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China” —WHO

    11. I have to agree with Gloria. I got the same impression and it does look like Dr.Greger took an easy way by not conflicting with the official narrative. I still hope it might have been a blunder on his part and he can enlighten himself by starting watching revelations of the bravest whistle-blowers, who deserve greatest respect and admiration for not loosing their integrity over fear or money, such as Judy Mikovits as in PLANdemic (on Brighteon), or expose of the nurse of NY hospital: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Cbt6RtIFs, etc…

    12. I challenge you to say all of this right to Dr. Gregor’s face… in person. It’s so easy to sit behind a screen and rant away. A proper, logical conversation with scientific facts is needed. Dr
      Gregor has done more to help then most of us ever will. Stop spreading hate and disrespect.

  4. I hope tomorrow he says something about the 95% of people who contract the virus and have mild or no symptoms at all and what they have in common. That would be a strong immune system which is I’m sure is tightly correlated with diet. The entire reason for the existence of NutritionFacts.org is investigating the correlation between diet and health.

    1. Nicholas: Dr. Greger’s videos on covid -19 are great if one has an academic interest in pandemics. As you’ve said, the mission of Nutrition Facts is to bring to the public information on how to prevent and reverse disease through nutrition, but the information in this video has nothing to do with nutrition; it Is just what the authorities tell us. The simple question is, is there anything I can do nutritionally that can lower my chances of getting it? To be fair to Dr. Greger, covid-19 is caused by a novel virus. Presumably, there’s nothing in peer-reviewed literature that explores how to prevent or treat it using nutritional strategies. What he could do is to discuss how to maintain a strong immune system using nutrition.

        1. Who was shuttered in doors?

          That didn’t happen around where I live at all.

          The walking paths were packed the whole time.

          People went shopping whenever they felt like.

          Every single place that I would ever go-to before COVID was open the whole time except gyms, hair salons, movies, malls and schools maybe a few other places.

          What country do you live in where you were shuttered inside?

      1. …or he could just continue to propagate Chinese talking-points on the surreal job they did, though “[p]reliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China.” —WHO

        1. Why is it that children who spend time in day care when they are young get less infectious problems than those who don’t? Public places except indoor crowded rooms with poor ventilation are the best places to spend an hour or so periodically to give your immune system exercise for optimum strength, if you are otherwise healthy. Masks reduce O2 levels in blood, sometimes dangerously, and they breed viruses. Besides masks make people seem a lot less human to others, to further distance social contact, to create the sense of isolation loneliness and fear. This is one of the big factors behind the riots.

  5. Hi Dr. Greger,
    Why not tell people to take quercetin and zinc supplements to stop the virus getting into them?
    You mentioned the Zinc before but its important to know about the ‘ionophore’ quercetin to absorb zinc into the cell.
    Can you do a Blog about this specific protection for people please as it works!
    Thank you…

    1. You may not stop the virus getting into you, but you may put obstacles on the virus getting into the cells by abolishing dietary cholesterol and not wearing a mask if you are already infected, as well as breathing through the nose, which stimulate nitric oxide production, a natural and endogenous SARS-CoV antiviral, and nitric oxide exposition of viruses into the nose, the main replication site.

      This way, less viruses enter into the cells, limiting its replication rate, and less viruses may reenter into your body, limiting the inner viral circulation and thus consequently, the number of viruses that you also exhale as an individual.

      1. ab, thank you for the information on the role of breathing through the nose to increase nitric oxide levels! I see that Cleveland Heart mentions the advantage of breathing through the nose (as opposed to mouth breathing) and in 2015 they developed a test which suggests whether you are on target with lifestyle choices to prevent nitric oxide depletion. “While maintaining the healthy production of nitric oxide is a good goal, compounds known as asymmetric dimethylarginine (ADMA) and symmetric dimethylarginine (SDMA) work against it. If you are concerned about damage to your blood vessels, Cleveland HeartLab has a test for these chemicals, which may indicate a low supply of nitric oxide and damage to the endothelium….Elevated levels of these biomarkers can signal damage to the endothelium, the inner lining of blood vessels.” Quest Diagnostic’s labs perform the ADMA/SDMA test https://testdirectory.questdiagnostics.com/test/test-detail/94153/admasdma?q=94153&cc=MASTER if your doctor orders it.

        Perhaps Dr. Greger can suggest other tests that we might take so our physicians can monitor endothelial health, along with his suggested tips for diet and lifestyle interventions if our test results indicate that improvement is needed.

        1. Hi, Caroline! You can find everything on this site related to nitric oxide here: https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/nitric-oxide/ Everything related to endothelial function may be found here: https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/endothelium/ I have passed along your request for more content related to the tests you mentioned and lifestyle interventions related to them. Please know that we receive many such requests daily, and it takes time to research and produce videos for all of them, so it may be awhile before it appears on the site. I hope that helps!

  6. I heard that there are a few countries that have not implemented these types of measures, yet they are doing quite well. Sweden and Japan being 2 examples. How would you explain their outcomes? Will there be a heard immunity in the near future?

      1. I have listened to Sweden’s epidemiologist many times. That headline is misleading; he said their only mistake was not taking stringent measures in nursing homes early on. Most of Sweden’s fatalities were elderly in nursing homes. He has also said those countries that lockdown are gonna have a hard time getting out of lockdown and the fact that we didn’t work on herd immunity could cause a second lockdown.

        1. Yesterday, I read a sentence that I found interesting about Sweden.

          It said that new forecasts by Danske Bank yesterday shows that the economy of Sweden faring worse than that of Norway and Denmark. Swedish GDP is set to shrink 4.1% this year, compared with a 3.5% contraction in Denmark and Norway, according to Danske.

          Also, they are now telling people to stay home for the Summer while America is opening up because it was taking so long to get to herd immunity so they are basically shutting down while everybody else opens.

          It will be interesting to see how that works economically but it sounds like they could end up worse than their neighboring countries – both in deaths and in economic news and the other countries are getting back to normal faster.

            1. Yep. But they do also suggest a 7% decline. But Thinktanks say all sorts of things…its currently conjecture.

              None the less, there is nothing we’ve done to be able to wag our fingers at other countries. And yes you can compare countries big and small.

              Sweden MIGHT get to 10% unemployment, say some. The US IS at between 13 and 14% unemployment, right now, with bailouts and lockdowns.

              1. JazzBass,

                But most of the US unemployment is not people permanently losing their jobs.

                That will happen after opening because businesses will suddenly have to pay workers again.

                But because the unemployment covering is much longer than normal, many of the businesses will let the older people and vulnerable people stay home longer because they can leave them on unemployment.

                Talking to business owners they have appreciated the flexibility of that process.

                The fact that so many small businesses got a grant to pay a few months salary on top of it, I have been thanking God every single day.

                1. Are you thinking this is all a blip and things are soon hunky dory back to normal, businesswise?.

                  The grants or loans which I believe you speak of were basically just printed out of thin air by fed chairman Powell…the SBA grants were $1000/employee. That’s for the whole time. The rest is a loan which must be paid back under EIDL. Now PPP is another story and for much larger corps and again was printed from thin air. But I believe its a grant if used 75% for payroll. correct if incorrect please.

                  Not to be party pooper, but I think really, this is not good.

                  How do you know this 14% US Unemployment is temporary, and that all these people will be going back to work later on? You dont really do you?

                  While some are happy to have an extra $600 per week which is in fact more than they were used to, its also true that tons of their employers will have been bought up or closed down by the time they are slated to get back to work.

                  Is anyone here aware of a single state which has required businesses to rehire furloughed or fired workers, rather than figure ways to higher cheaper labor, or replace some with offshore or with technology?

                  Likewise many things will have irreversibly changed. The new normal.

                  Just one of many things that will change is commercial real estate could take a large hit soon. These companies who are thankful about the flexibility they’ve found are also reexamining their commercial leases and property asset portfolios as potential waste. (go figure).

                  We’ve learned that the new normal is possible, people can work from home and corps can still rake in record profits.. So there isn’t necessarily a need to rush and put workers all back into these spaces, then the potential liabilities of law suits if they catch Covid. They are reconsidering why they are paying huge rents, paying huge designer and architect fees, and filling these spaces with expensive office furniture built by privatized prisoners for pennies.

                  What happens if say just 20% of the corps decide to can the big spaces, and alternatively keep just a small WeWork type location, for those who still want to physically commute and come into work? What happens when they stop renewing leases for hundreds of thousands of square feet of office space all across the country?

                  How could this small adjustment not be so wonderful?

                  Who gets hit and loses their jobs?

                  Perhaps, Realtors, building maintanance, insurance companies, lawyers, IT infrastructure installers/salesmen/developers,mom and pop and chain restaurants on ground floor of these buildings for lunch goers, MIDDLE MANAGEMENT, uber drivers who would have taken people to work, cleaning crews, audio visual personnel for presentations, civil workers like parking police, catering, flower shops, clothing stores who dont sell to people who dont need work clothes any longer, all the logistics people responsible for storing, and getting these efforts and products to their destinations etc…

                  Is anyone else seeing these possibilities? I know just a bit since I happen to be involved in high level banking meetings that New York is also the epicenter of consideration of not renewing commercial office leases since we’ve just proven that people can work from home. (Next step is “hey their homes can be in the philipines right?” )

                  Others in NYC are looking at the potential ripple effects of this potential “surge”, and are quite frankly shitting their pants over these possibilities of what some seem to be obliviously looking fondly at as simply returning to life as it was, but are typically unaware of all these huge decisions and plans being made without our input.

                  This is likely playing out in every major city in every state.

                  Things could get kind of Mad Maxxy around here, and add the protests to that and jeez look out yo.

        2. The Swedes needed more freedom:

          “As a doctor, I do my best to protect my patients, regardless of age. But I cannot possibly condone the official directives issued on how to protect the elderly….

          “The directives are, essentially, asking me to get rid of anyone who is sick. Is it ethical to instruct doctors to first prescribe morphine, rather than oxygen? Is it ethical to deny elderly patients oxygen in most situations? How would you feel on finding out that your parent in a care home will not be given critical care, or curative care, or oxygen therapy, because they are deemed irrelevant? Why is this the case? As Sweden has five factories producing oxygen, supplying oxygen outside of a hospital setting should not be an issue.

          “Horror stories have played out across the country. At Karolinska University hospital in Stockholm, one doctor told the Dagens Nyheter daily that triage has been made so difficult that ‘we are being forced to let patients die in front of our eyes.’

          “Another Swedish newspaper, Aftonbladet, saw official documents instructing that patients aged 60 and above with multiple conditions, and all those aged above 80, should be denied intensive care, even though Sweden apparently has plenty of ICU beds.

          “And there is plenty of anecdotal evidence of an unacceptable number of deaths occurring without medical attendance. What is the strategy behind this?”
          Unforgivably cruel: Swedish directives on how to treat Covid-19 elderly have caused massive death toll
          https://www.rt.com/op-ed/490012-swedish-directives-covid-elderly-cruel/

          1. Sweden has lost about 5000 people = 0.0499% of its population (less than half of 1%.)
            US has lost 116,000 = .0363% of our population (about a third of 1% )

            US wins I guess.

            But upon consideration of actions taken/not taken these are interesting numbers, no?

            Again, the flu, is also a pretty bad killer
            In the US:
            The biggie (spanish flu) 1918 killed 675,000
            1957-58 Asian flu killed 116,000
            1968 Hong Kong flu killed 100,000

            fun facts

            1. You can not compare countries with how many people die in general, but with how many people die according to the number of people actually infected and contracting COVID-19, that is, according to the number of people that have symptoms beyond the mere common flu and who need hospitalization or specific medical care.

              Taking all COVID-19 infected people needing specific care, you can then have the ratio of death for COVID-19, which is actually measuring the efficacy of medical care in a country for COVID-19 itself.

              1. Actually, I can compare countries with how many people die of a particular disease as it relates to the percentage of their population.

                Perhaps you cant.

                1. You can, but it makes very little sense in times of pandemics where different measures in countries such as different testing or ways of lockdown and different politics for preventive masks have been used.

                  What you can infer about is the efficiency of medical care into a country by looking at the rate of death in confirmed COVID-19 cases with symptoms beyond those of flu. Many people with flu have been erroneously “diagnosticated” with COVID-19 withot proper testing.

                  So you want to compare countries on the basis of confirmed COVID-19 cases requiring hospitalization and with proper testing. In countries like France, many people requiring hospitalization have been denied healthcare because of overloaded hospitals and given sedative (benzodiazepines) until death. France has the highest ratio of death per confirmed case in the world with one in five people dying of COVID-19. You might explain the use of sedatives and a high death ratio in countries where euthanasia is legal, like Beligum and Netherlands, but not in France where euthanasia is illegal. There, medical professionals have voluntarily killed elder people with COVID-19 by using sedative counterindicated for respiratory distress.

      2. They did a lot better than Wuhan that did the strictest measures of all. The reasons Wuhan looks as good as it does, is the fact that they are hiding the real numbers, and China is the world’s main manufacturer of test kits. They send to the rest of the world kits that are rigged for false positives. Sweden also may also do like the US and pay hospitals several thousand dollars for every positive case they treat and about twice as much if the patient is treated with a ventilator. Since almost 90% of patients on ventilators die from them, you get more deaths. This is the reason they take one person off the ventilator to give it to someone else, that way you can kill more patients and get twice as much extra money from the same ventilator.
        Some children near here were drowned in a submerged car. The dead children were admitted to the hospital and the cause of death on their certificates was Covid19. Every person who dies around here has to be admitted to the hospital and no death certificates are allowed to have any other cause of death but the virus. That way hospitals are making millions and most hospital workers are out of a job. That causes the number of cases and deaths to be greatly inflated.

    1. There’s an awful lot of false (or at least outdated) information being circulated on the internet.

      Sweden has far higher rates of covid 19 mortality than the US for example, and Japan has a similar case fatality rate to the US
      https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

      It’s far better to rely on trustworthy sources of information like the WHO, CDC, national health authorities and leading universities than it is is to believe the wild and sensational claims made by cranks and conspiracy theorists.

      1. The higher rate of COVID-19 mortality in the entire world, that is, for people with confirmed COVID-19 and in a medical establishment( hospitals, hospital at home, or geriatric establishment) is France, with near 1 in 5 people dying of COVID-19.

        In France, they have tested the systemic use of sedative (benzodiazepines) as an anxiogenic and a palliative care for respiratory distress.

        Benzodiazepines are contraindicated for respiratory impairments. No wonder why people are dying when one gives to them medications that may aggravate their disease while extinguishing their consciousness. Mass genocide of sick people is not COVID-19-based, it is physicians and medical authorities-based.

        1. One meant by anxiogenic, an anxiolytic medication for the anxiogenic symptoms of respiratory distress.

          Even the American Society of Geriatrics do not recommend benzodiazepines for the elderly population in normal situations… but in the context of COVID-19, in a number of countriees, they gave this medication to elder people with respiratory distress, though it is contradindicated for those conditions…

          Though limiting lipids is known as an antiviral procedure, the European Society of nutrition was recommending high fat diets to people with COVID-19… with “an energy ratio from fat and carbohydrates between 30:70 (subjects with no respiratory deficiency) to 50:50 (ventilated patients, see below) percent”…

          ESPEN Expert Statements and Practical Guidance for Nutritional Management of Individuals With SARS-CoV-2 Infection
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7138149/

          The antiviral effect of limiting lipids
          https://www.nature.com/articles/nri.2016.6

          There is more death from incorrect medications, incorrect nutrition and incorrect use of masks as source control, then there is death from COVID-19.

      2. Let me rewrite your post so as not to confuse everyone and spread false information:

        There’s an awful lot of false (or at least outdated) information being circulated on the internet. For example the following statement is FALSE:

        “Sweden has far higher rates of covid 19 mortality than the US for example, and Japan has a similar case fatality rate to the US.”

        While Sweden has surpassed the US in mortality as a percentage of their population, Japan only has 935 deaths overall: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

        It’s far better to rely on trustworthy sources of information, unlike the WHO, CDC, national health authorities – who might have hidden agendas.

        The search for truth require due diligence, not slavish non-questioning obedience to those in authority.

        1. You clearly don’t understand what the term ‘case fatality rate’ means.

          Further, preferring the analyses and reports issued by international and national health authorities worldwide, and leading academic and professional bodies, to sensational claims made on social media by unqualified or poorly qualified individuals and assorted cranks, is simply rational behaviour

          1. Yes, of course I know what case fatality rate means: A number impossible to accurately quantify, unless one tests everyone with an accurate test. It is a number too easy to falsify and too inaccurate to consider. Deaths of those who were infected are the only number that counts. And even then, most people die with Covid, not from Covid, a huge distinction.

            In this day and age it is not rational to believe the authorities. Why? Because they lie. The system has been corrupted to the point that even scientists bend to the outcomes wanted by Big Pharma. Does this mean one believes anything and everything? No, but you do not discount those outside the official narrative, for that reason alone. You use your reason to dig deeper and get to the truth. Believing the official authority without question is not only intellectually lazy, but dangerous to a free and just society and ultimately hazardous to our health.

            1. “As the 2013 IOM Report concluded in their Summary, (bottom of page 5), that the entire Centers for Disease Control (CDC) Childhood Vaccine Schedule has never been studied for safety [….]

              “There is corruption and conflicts of interest in the CDC, FDA, WHO and NIH whereby big pharma has influence and power over the interpretation of the outcomes/science and the related safety of vaccines. The Institute of Medicine (IOM) has persistently urged HHS to perform such studies since 1991. HHS has assiduously refused. There is, therefore, no way to scientifically claim that a specific vaccine averts more harms, including deaths, than it causes[….]
              “The government has quietly admitted culpability by paying out over $4 billion for thousands of injuries and deaths caused by vaccines underscoring that vaccine injuries can and do happen, including autism. And, an HHS-funded study concluded that fewer than 1% of vaccine injuries are even reported.
              “Big Pharma is exerting influence over WHO, FDA and CDC to fast track and short cut safety studies in order to gain more profits faster. Big Pharma has zero financial risk when children get vaccine injured because the government prevents victims from suing big pharma – resulting in big pharma not being concerned about child vaccine safety[….]

              “The pharmaceutical industry enforces policy discipline through agency budgets. The World Health Organization (WHO) gets roughly half its budget from private sources, including Pharma and its allied foundations.  And CDC, frankly, is a vaccine company; it owns 56 vaccine patents  and buys and distributes $4.6 billion in vaccines annually through the Vaccines for Children program, which is over 40% of its total budget. Further, Pharma directly funds, populates and controls dozens of CDC programs through the CDC foundation.  A British Medical Journal editorial excoriates CDC’s sweetheart relationship with pharma quotes UCLA Professor of Medicine Jerome R. Hoffman ‘most of us were shocked to learn the CDC takes funding from industry… It is outrageous that industry is apparently allowed to punish the CDC if the agency conducts research that has potential to cut into profits.’

              “Collected from many sources, this page lists the conflicts of interest and financial entanglements of the WHO and the CDC that should be considered when determining the validity of statements made by either organization. This compilation doesn’t even include the twenty seven years of pharmaceutical industry criminal and civil penalties from 1991 through 2017 reported in a Public Citizen expose.”
              CDC and WHO Corrupt Financial Entanglements with the Vaccine Industry
              https://childrenshealthdefense.org/cdc-who/

              The problem with talking about vaccines is that it seems like many people have made an idol of them and get offended when someone shows disagreement. And the problem with that is the idea of vaccines may be correct, but the vaccines may turn out to be harmful because the industries are irresponsible.

            2. It is clear that not trust can be given blindly to governments and medical authorities working with governments… Corruption is the main business of governments.

          2. It really makes no sense to compare official COVID-19 numbers between countries, as asymptomatic people positive to SARS-CoV-2 may be counted into some countries and not in others, whereas those people do not develop at all the disease COVID-19.

            What you want to compare is the data of actual people with COVID-19 and symptoms beyond those of simple flu, who require hospitalization or medical care, not mere people positive to SARS-CoV-2 because it means nothing in terms of disease, as for more than 80% of infected people, the infection is nothing more than a benign cold, not the COVID-19 disease characterized by respiratory impairment and life-threatening metabolic reactions.

  7. Disappointing on so many levels and no better reporting than the main stream media. No mention of the Covid-19 cases and deaths over counts? No mention of the people killed by improper use of ventilators? No mention of how Japan handled the crisis with no lockdown-style draconian measures? No mention of the folly of naming Covid deaths as extra deaths, when the mortality rate is inline with normal mortality of the elderly? No mention of the thousands that are dying and will die from the economic shutdown? Compilation is almost as bad as no information.

    Dig DEEPER. Start here:
    https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

    1. José,

      When this thing started, even doctors and nurses didn’t have masks and nobody had tests and people didn’t have toilet paper or hand sanitizer or cleaning products for months. There was no medicine and no ventilators and In the Northeast, a few of the states went from zero cases to tens of thousands of cases in a matter of 2 to 3 weeks.

      As far as draconian methods, I think that term is over-blown. People could go shopping at every grocery store, every convenience store, every gas station was open, every office supply store was open, Home Depot and Lowes were open, Walmart, Kohls, Target were all open, most restaurants were open for delivery, Starbucks with drive-thrus were open, construction and manufacturing was open, UPS, FEDEX, and the post office were open, CVS, Walgreens and every other drug store was open. Obviously, hospitals, police, ambulances, firefighting and most essential government – both Federal and at the State level was open and the town hall was by appointment. Insurance companies, auto mechanics, car detailing, oil changes were open. Daycares were open. I haven’t even started with the list of people who easily started working from home and most of the professional working people may keep working from home and that is what my friends said. They liked it better working from home and spending time with their families and are asking to keep doing it.

      France and Israel and so many countries you had to have a pass to go out but we got to go freely. Yes, things closed 2 hours earlier so that they could do sanitizing but I could still go to Walmart at 9 PM and CVS 24-hours if I forgot anything.

      I think Americans don’t know what the word “Draconian” implies.

      Yes, I couldn’t go to the movies or gym or get my hair cut and it shows.

      But my friends who had to NOT work are the happiest of all. They said that they are making more money to not work than to work because they are getting unemployment plus the $600 and they haven’t had to pay rent or mortgage and have been getting food. I talked to several people who said that they might be able to stay home and not work up to December and they are enjoying time with their families. I had friends who had lost their jobs and run out of unemployment before the pandemic and they got unemployment. They got a stimulus check. They didn’t have to pay their mortgage. They had the utility companies, insurance companies, and credit card companies offering deals. The businesses had their employees taken care of and got paycheck protection to cover a few months of paychecks and I will say that I am talking to people who are saying that they are afraid for the future, but they almost feel guilty that they got paid to do nothing and my 65-year-old friend said that her boss is saying, “You might as well stay on unemployment and ride this out – so she might be covered through December and she couldn’t afford to retire but said that this is like she has gotten several months of what it would feel like.

      Yes, I am a business person and the future is scary – all around the world it is scary – but like I said, even my career friends who are losing their jobs because they do things like consulting and nobody wants people coming in are getting covered and that coverage will last months longer, plus, they might get more stimulus checks and all of them are happy with those things and not one of them used the word, “Draconian” about the experience.

      Stir-crazy.

      Worried about their elderly loved ones. Worried because they are overweight and have things like Diabetes.

      Relieved that they haven’t been as exposed during this time.

      Worried about the economy but since most of the world shut down, those worries would have happened no matter what we did.

      1. I have been talking to people who are accountants and other professionals who said that they can’t get their workers back yet because they are making more money staying home.

        I have heard that sentence more than once from bosses who can’t get people to come back yet and from workers who don’t want to go back yet.

        1. Also, the people who are opening right now in my state are worried that nobody will come and the thing is, in Sweden, they talked about 10% of the people showing up for the vacations and keeping workers working when only 10% of the income is coming in is WORSE than shutting down.

          When I talked to my friend who runs a restaurant in Paris, he said that they can only open 1/4 and the only way to succeed at that is to keep 1/4 of the workers on unemployment and he is so grateful that the government is paying his workers so he can still have workers who might be there months from now.

          The dance studio near me might open and not have any kids show up. Or only 10% of the kids.

          Suddenly, the Draconian measures of paying people to stay home is what saves the business because they didn’t have to open until now and NOW is what is terrifying to them. More terrifying than being closed. Being open and only 10% of the people show up and suddenly you are up on the tightrope with no net underneath. Scarier by far.

          1. Honestly, the people staying open with only 10% to 25% of their business is showing up are more likely to fail than the ones who had the government covering their payroll – with unemployment, stimulus check, and with a payroll protection grant.

            I am not sure whether the people crying about partial closings thought about those types of things.

      2. Deb, actually, what business was open, and rules for being outside your home, varied a lot by state. In some, there were only grocery stores, pharmacies and gas stations open. People were stopped and asked where they were going.

        1. Thanks, Marilyn.

          And that is why we have such individuality in the responses.

          Some people are angry and frustrated.

          I have actually enjoyed the pandemic other than people getting sick and dying.

          Society slowing down and watching families spending time with each other and seeing so many people out walking – it is like society pushed a pause button and a lot of it has been beautiful.

          1. A beautiful resdistribution of wealth. Trillions handed out to corps in our one party system. :)

            Yes lots of walks, but those damn bikers man..”On your left! On your left! ding! ding!” Its almost more dangerous on these walking/biking paths than Covid itself.

      3. Deb
        Even if it was true that health care workers did not have PPE , that shows a lack of planning on the medical establishment . These very same people who could not even be prepared for a emergency in their own hospitals were given the task to run the country in a lock down . They were the ones who were to decide what is essential or not essential .This is most likely the biggest disaster since the great depression .

    1. wow, now were getting somewhere. So, in lockdown, as numbers surged most everywhere, then we gave covid to ourselves in our own homes?

  8. A mere regurgitation of the official narrative that made its way to the scientific literature via the mantras of mass media.

  9. Thinking of social distancing in the U.S. school setting, if some 30% of cases do not experience a fever and/or do not have symptoms while contagious, what can schools do to ensure the safest environment for our youth? I am asking out of concern as a grandmother of school-aged children and my own health risk as an employee. This concern stems from my observation of multiple cases of the “flu” or “colds” in my students upon returning from the winter break in January 2020. In fact, one of my students from the foreign exchange program had to stay in her home country and complete the semester from “a distance” due to the lockdown there. As a person who cares a lot about my own health, it’s hard not to mention that in January, I spent a lot of my cash on hand sanitizer and tissue for my classroom (the school warehouse was out). Of course, money is nothing without health so I am not complaining about that. My point is, the school system will have to estimate and provide immense amounts of hand sanitizer and masks (although based on the facts, are not a prevention but an affective measure), extreme flexibility for the absenteeism of employees and students, and physical distancing logistics.

    1. More like 80% are asymptomatic and according to the latest data noncontagious.

      “But in a statement on Monday, the World Health Organization said that it believes asymptomatic transmission to be “very rare,” particularly among young, otherwise healthy people — a seemingly dramatic reversal from a few months ago, when social distancing was enacted largely as a precaution against asymptomatic transmission.” – https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/how-many-people-with-the-coronavirus-are-asymptomatic.html

      So, to answer your question on safe schools: Provide a healthy environment, with plenty of fresh air, no stifling masks, plenty of soap and water, nutritious healthy choices for food and joyously face life without instilling fear in their young impressionable minds.

        1. Sometimes the truth has a way of slipping out. 0.1% mortality with those being mostly among folks 80 and above, does not a pandemic make.

    1. Hi Mary,

      You can do a few things – if you are not subscribed to the video email updates you can opt in to get them every M, W, F on our subscribe page at the top of this screen. The next video in this series will come out on Monday. When it’s out, you can just come back to the main page and it will be there. Hope that helps!

  10. Dr Greger,
    I am both a scientist and businessman. The science perspective you present is right. As you pointed out, this virus has already been botched so putting the genie back in the bottle is impossible. However, there is well documented science that shows that stress is correlated to multiple different types of cancer, heart disease and liver and kidney disease not to mention suicide. In a competitive capitalistic society such as America, economic uncertainty will cause significant amounts of long term health issues and death so both the life and economic perspectives must be considered. At this point a delicate balance will need to be struck to prevent healthcare workers from having to make decisions regarding who lives and who dies. I have been told that wearing large cloth masks that stay in place, cover the nose, and hang below the chin are best to slow the spread. The general public is overwhelmed by the number of scientific experts and political leaders who are stating differing messages. Crisis communication is key. I encourage you to contact your political leaders to share your data.

    1. Donald,

      We are opening now and stress is even higher for the people who are going back. Staying open when only 10% to 25% of customers would have shown up – and I can use Sweden for that example – is what people are facing even now.

      But now, because society is opening, many of them suddenly have to start paying their workers to be there even though they don’t have the full-capacity incomes and may not have that for many months.

      They have been living in a protective bubble where workers were paid unemployment and mortgages and rents and taxes and utilities and insurance was put basically on hold. You can’t tell me that right now – when they have to come out of the bubble and open – isn’t just as stressful.

      1. Sweden stayed open, but the countries around them who closed early are doing better financially.

        That is what the models of pandemic showed.

  11. I think we have a fantasy notion of everything staying open and the consumers/customers not adjusting their behaviors and spending.

    Swedish people did adjust their behaviors. The businesses just didn’t have a safety net and the government didn’t have to give one because they were open.

    1. Another thing that I am seeing right now is that some of the people I know have been on unemployment all of this time but now that the state is opening it forced the employers to make decisions and they are laying people off and suddenly that group is unemployed and, luckily, the unemployment is still easier to get and keep or they would suddenly be in trouble.

      Opening society didn’t make their jobs safer and for the ones with comorbidities, they are terrified about being forced to go back, even now.

      And to the one who used a statistic to hide the reality that it was thousands of people age 45 and under who died and tens of thousands of people under age 65 who died in the USA. The people I know who died didn’t have cancer or something that would have taken their lives now. Some of them were athletes.

      1. It is arguable that shutting down, rather than having so many companies just operating at 25% on their own has decreased the stress of all of those Americans and maybe some of the businesses will make it when they might not have.

      2. Undiagnosed conditions and genetic abnormalities may explain why asmall minority of young, apparently healthy people have died from covid 19?

  12. I have been following Dr Greger for several years and learned a great deal about nutrition from this website. In fact, this website is primarily responsible for my adopting a WFPD way of eating. So I have great respect for Dr Greger as a nutrition doctor/scientist.

    But I must disagree with his comparison of the South Korean response to Covid-19 with that of the US as a whole country. The population difference is huge with the US around 350 million vs SK at around 51 million. It would be better to compare, say New York State/NYC with So. Korea. NY State has a population of only 20 million and was one of the hardest hit states. Why didn’t the NY State leaders respond like So. Korea?

    Another thing to remember is that while the leadership of So. Korea was preparing for the Covid-19 response, the leader of the US was fighting off a baseless impeachment! A little bit of a distraction wouldn’t you think? ;-)

    1. Darwin,

      I will agree with you that the US was so unprepared, particularly NY.

      First off, we have states’ rights and we have towns’ and cities’ rights.

      We don’t have a president who makes decisions for NY. We have mayors and governors and state politicians who all had to meet and argue about whether to close the economy.

      That is going to happen every pandemic for the USA unless we give control to the president and no governor or mayor wants that.

      We also don’t have doctors or hospitals or towns or cities wanting to store PPE and nobody at all of the people had masks already and not even the doctors had masks.

      We were coming off the holidays and impeachment focus and NY wanted to stay open and was telling people that there was very little risk and that they were over-prepared. I wonder whether they have come clean about the fact that it was recommended that they have ventilators years ago and they decided to ration them instead of buying more.

      Anyway, we are a great big nation of anti-preppers, except for the subset of preppers, who we see as selfish and paranoid and that we make fun of, until suddenly we get “woke” about it and start doing our own preparation. Taking our own responsibility.

      1. Deb, Regarding you comment: “First off, we have states’ rights and we have towns’ and cities’ rights. We don’t have a president who makes decisions for NY. We have mayors and governors and state politicians who all had to meet and argue about whether to close the economy.”

        You’re exactly right. That was my point. So. Korea is about the size of one of the USA’s large states. Each US state is supposed to be responsible for their own citizens.

        In fact, according to the Bill of Rights – Tenth Amendment: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

        So any blame for unpreparedness should first be aimed at the States, not the federal government. From the people I have been talking to, most of them haven’t even read the Constitution, especially the young people. It seems as though they stopped teaching it in the schools somewhere along the line.

        The USA started out as being a country of individual responsibility, but has been constantly eroded away into a “nanny” country where everyone wants the “government” to take care of them. :-(

  13. Well…I am not even sure where to start. First, I want to say that I love 99% of what you offer…but this time I think you missed the mark. I know that you love to use peer reviewed reference material, which is fine. However, in this case it appears that you are limiting yourself to articles regarding the medical model, what about the host mediated model (that’s you folks) If I may…I would think that you are much better prepared to take in what I am about to say because of what you believe and what you write about.

    There is a great deal more to this than you are bringing to the forefront. Oh and BTW, There are NO RNA vaccines currently on the schedule, and I would have thought that if anyone would look for more detail regarding testing and vaccines, it would be you. Everyone says we need to test, test and test. What good does testing do if the tests are only about 20% accurate? And then there is the reporting, I have Doctor friends that are being pressured to list a death as COVID even if it is not a COVID related death. Here again and more specifically, how would anyone know if they NEVER tested the dead patient and then still listed it as a COVID death!

    I could go on and on, it should be known by the public that a large number of patients died because they were put in a ventilator, when they should not have been. In our hospital, it was well known that when a hospital TREATS a ‘suspected’ COVID patient Medicare would pay them $13,000, and if that patient was put on a Vent…they were paid $39,000! So, this brings us full circle, if there is monetary gain and a patient falsely tests positive even if they don’t have it…well I think you can see the ethical issue here. But wait, we know that hospitals are not just in this for the money, right? I run into this every day at work, and it makes me ill.

    There are lots of wonderful doctors and nurses out there, however many of them are not well educated in areas that would help to save a patient that is immuno-compromised or nutrient depleted. This brings me to my final rant, there is a ton of research that shows supporting the immune system and using host mediated restorative nutritional medicine works better than ANY vaccine will ever work. VACCINES WILL NEVER WORK, this is coming from a doctor folks. It has been documented that the host will not be able to build long term anti-body protection (Jawetz, Melnick, & Adelberg’s Medical Microbiology).

    Oh, and one last thing, you need to look at the military research that was done where recruits where injected with the flu vaccine, and then it was found that were many times more susceptible to getting COVID than before the flu shot! It appears that there may be a direct correlation between the immuno-suppressive effect of the Flu shot and becoming more susceptible to COVID.

    I hope that you will look into the above so your future video’s won’t just sound like you are just ‘falling in line’.

    Thanks,
    Harry

    1. Harry, thank you. Its all I can say. Vaccines manage a profit based scenario to continue the status quo and normalize things, and I suppose some work for long periods, like small pox and polio, but my understanding is that even that has an end game and of course, billions in profit. (not to mention a terrible health co-toll)

      At this, many will say: “Would you expect us to do nothing?!” (as if that is the only alternative their minds can conjure).

      1. im referring more to line-toeing parroters posting here more than the Doc himself…

        I do believe the good Doc is simply outlining as many possibilities, in a series, to later bring it all home to a conclusion based in evidence and possibility, with real advice for our future.

        I am hopeful in that.

        1. That is nice.

          Nice to see a hopeful sentence honoring and respecting the host.

          I genuinely appreciate that.

          As a Christian, I look and Dr Greger sometimes has his pearls trampled by the swine. (A nod to the fact he was saying the same things during the Swine Flu but the new audience has been riled up by the influencers.

    2. Regarding the topic of flu vaccines increasing risk, I came across this study which I find concerning. From some sources there seems to be a push for getting flu vaccines this coming season, but this study suggests it might not be a good idea. I never fail to get the flu when I get vaccinated so I am more than a bit nervous about it.
      Risk of getting pneumonia or coronavirus rises substantially with prior flu vaccination.

      https://www.disabledveterans.org/2020/03/11/flu-vaccine-increases-coronavirus-risk/

      1. It’s probably better to read the actual study itself rather then to rely on highly selective (if not deliberately misleading) second and third hand reports by anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists

        ‘Receipt of influenza vaccination was not associated with virus interference among our population. Examining virus interference by specific respiratory viruses showed mixed results. Vaccine derived virus interference was significantly associated with coronavirus and human metapneumovirus; however, significant protection with vaccination was associated not only with most influenza viruses, but also parainfluenza, RSV, and non-influenza virus coinfections.’

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7126676/

          1. Oh, sure.

            However, ‘ Comparing vaccinated to non-vaccinated patients, the adjusted odds ratio for non-flu viruses was 0.97’ which suggests an overall protective effect from flu vaccination. Also, breaking down those figures into 18 smaller subcategories means that I have less confidence in the findings for those smaller subcategories like corona virus than I do in the overall figure. I am no statistician but the smaller the group, the more likely it is that the sample is not representative of the total population.

            That said, in the current covid pandemic, my feeling is that it might be prudent to avoid a flu vaccine this year. Covid 19 is more lethal than the flu after all. Even so, I’d want to see a much larger study to convince me that the finding is not just a statistical artifact. Especially since this study deals with physically fit younger people with no serious comorbidities. ideally, I’d like to see a large study in older people.

            My point though is that it’s better to read the study for oneself than to simply accept someone else’s interpretation of it especially if those people are well-qualified to interpret it or they have a pre-existing agenda. The final key point is that this study did not look at covid-19/ SARS -cov-2 …. just corona viruses in general, most of which are relatively harmless. Extrapolating this study to susceptibility of covid-19 is speculation not science.

              1. ‘the study looked at four types of seasonal coronaviruses that cause common colds, not SARS-CoV-2.

                What’s more, Belongia said, the results in the study that indicate a flu-vaccinated person has an increased likelihood of testing positive for a seasonal coronavirus do not appear to be adjusted for age groups or seasons. Those factors could affect someone’s chances of getting a specific virus, regardless of whether or not they’ve been vaccinated for the flu.

                Different viruses affect different age groups and circulate at different times, he said. “It can be easily explained just by random variation and the fact that they didn’t adjust for confounding variables.”
                https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/no-evidence-that-flu-shot-increases-risk-of-covid-19/ar-BB13h8zt

                Which probably explains why the WHO, CDC, national health authorities and professional medical associations worldwide have not latched onto this study as conclusively demonstrating that flu vaccinations increase covid 19 risk.

                1. Thank you for your feedback on this topic Fumbles. I imagine we will hear more towards the end of the summer as flu seasons approaches.

                  Last year, as in most years, I had the flu shot. I also got severely ill and ended up with a case of shingles on top of the flu. A total nightmare. Whether or not I end up getting another flu shot, I will definitly continue to apply some of the hygiene strategies we have used in the past months, and continue to isolate, more or less.

                  1. Thanks Barb. I might skip a flu shot myself this year.

                    Still, I might ask for a shingles vaccine though ……………. the risk of complications from a bout of shingles goes up significantly once we’re over 50 I believe.

                2. Tom,

                  You used the word “cold” and mentally, suddenly, people got more colds if they had a flu shot is already secondarily interesting.

                  If it weren’t for COVID-19 being deadly, most people might choose colds over flu.

                  As far as reading it myself. I do try to do that about everything but once we get to the statistical math, I need a pocket translator.

  14. This is so devastatingly sad.
    And yet, this country is full of selfish people, who don’t care that their behavior might kill somebody else — maybe even somebody trying to save their sorry lives.

    “hundreds of U.S. health-care workers — not just nurses and physicians but also EMTs, paramedics and medical technologists — [have] died fighting a virus against which humans have no known immunity. There is no official tally of their deaths. More than 77,800 have tested positive for the coronavirus, and more than 400 have died, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which acknowledges that’s a significant undercount. The nation’s largest nurses union, National Nurses United, puts the total much higher: 939 fatalities among health-care workers, based on reports from its chapters around the country, social media and obituaries. Nurses represent about 15 percent of those deaths, the union said.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/health/healthcare-workers-death-coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR1YQkSxEiBZnZ1AIh2as9C3dtv2WXEMcPUAMjHGCzq15hR5Ol4Ss3pSEGQ

    My daughter is a hospital nurse; she says that they still don’t have sufficient PPEs. She says that she’s been wearing the same masks for days, if not longer. Medical staff who speak up about conditions at work are disciplined, or fired. And yes, people are still getting sick and dying from this virus. And not all of them are old/vulnerable and apparently expendable people.

    I worry about her every single day that she goes to work. And then I read the amazingly ignorant and irresponsible comments here, and I am shocked, and in despair. I hope to God she doesn’t die taking care of someone who was so cavalier and careless and yes, downright stupid, about their own health — not to mention everybody else’s health. She deserves better. All medical care workers deserve better.

    1. Dr J.,

      Thank you for sharing.

      Your love for your daughter is palpable.

      Thank you for speaking about the health of the health care workers.

      People have lost site of that.

    2. Dr J.,

      That is your job. To show people that people die who wouldn’t have died. Once it became that black people and elderly people and Hispanics were the ones who were dying, the rhetoric changed as if it were all 80 year olds.

      We care about the doctors and nurses.

      It is just that the logic in peoples’ minds was re-written by the “experts” saying that nobody died. Just people who would have died anyway.

      People heard it.

      And because the closed down society has so many fewer deaths and because the COVID-19 numbers haven’t been adjusted like the flu numbers are yet and because shutting down lowered how many people did die, people think that nobody died.

      Thank you for saying that people did.

      Unless that logic comes back in, we will never protect the medical people again.

    3. Listen, which hospital is she at, because I found a shit ton of medical grade masks at Amazon, delivering by Friday June 19th, and they are cheap as hell.

      Man what a place this is…Still, above the fold it remains awesome!

  15. In a comment under a previous topic, DR expressed sadness about the proliferation of posts by members of the lunatic fringe.

    After seeing all the posts here today, I now believe that DR was incorrect. It is not a lunatic fringe. It is a deep shag-pile carpet the size of several football pitches.

    1. I officially launch on this website the “We want meat” campaign so that Dr Greger’s goes deeper into the subject that he talked about, instead of relying on superficial and potentially medically misleading information.

      I understand that some readers/listeners here may be intellectually deficient and are satisfied with superficial information, but other readers/listeners want the actual “medical meat” that will allow to make the right move for themselves and therefore for the society itself..

    2. Mr. Fumblefingers,

      I totally agree with you — except that the several football fields might be too small. And a deep shag-pile carpet too thin, the layer is much, much thicker than that.

      I have read these comments in the past for useful insights and tips, evidence-based and scientific references and stories and more. But now there seems to be a very different tenor, comments that eschew science and instead go with their “gut feelings” and “public opinion” and misleading information and pseudo-science posted by quacks and conspiracy theorists and worse. What happened?

      1. What happened, unfortunately, is the idolization of Dr Greger, who is nothing more than a doctor with his own opinions and limitations in the interpretation of scientific data.

        So when other people point out different opinions, the people who have idolized Dr Greger, get on their defensive and begin the name-calling and other vain attacks, like on Jeff Nelson and now on Dr Popper.

  16. This COVID-19 serie continues to stay at the surface of things.

    In order to reduce the viral load, abolition of dietary cholesterol and not wearing “source control” masks for infected people are the only way to naturally slow down the progression of the virus inwardly and then outwardly into the society.

    Cholesterol favors the entry of the virus into the cells while wearing masks creates a “viral storm” into it when breathing which allows the reabsorbtion and reinhalation of millions of viruses into the lungs on the duration.

      1. Asian countries eat more whole plant foods than occidental countries, that is, they have a higher intake of fiber which protects the endothelium against angiotensin 2 injury caused by the viral infection.

        Then, masks may also be efficient at preventing to get the virus on the first place. But once one got it, masks may be deadly, as it favors a viral microcosm within the mask and thus the replication of virus through its reabsorption into the body and lungs.

        1. Thank you ab! Now why did Dr. Greger not provide this information to us instead of rehashing the WHO/CDC narrative?? Is it soluble or insoluble fiber, or both, that helps to protect the endothelium from injury? And how much fiber is advised? And does dietary fat (lower in Asian diets) play a role as well? Dr Greger’s video https://nutritionfacts.org/video/fatty-meals-may-impair-artery-function/ would suggest that a low fat diet (all fat, either animal or vegetable derived) is another important factor. “Researchers found that low-fat meals tend to improve endothelial function, and high-fat meals tend to worsen endothelial function. And this goes for animal fat, as well as isolated plant fats—sunflower oil, in this case.” And what about low dietary phosphorus (low animal protein diet) as in traditional Asian diets? “Dietary Phosphorus Acutely Impairs Endothelial Function” https://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/20/7/1504

          Dr. Greger, where are you when we need you? Now would be a good time to summarize all of your advice regarding endothelial dysfunction as it applies to COVID-19, seasonal influenza and possible future pandemics.

  17. Brilliant Dr.Greger. Finally a place to find facts among all of the noise. Thank you for this series. It has been informative and insightful. If you keep producing I’ll keep telling everyone I can to watch!

  18. Wow, this has been an entertaining and interesting thread to read.

    We have to remember, the reason for all of this division is that there are people who have massive gains or massive losses to be had in relation to how statistics are reported on this matter. There will be both under-reporting and over-reporting. These inconsistencies in reporting, combined with wild differences in how different regions are effected are what is driving all of the division.

    Some regions got completely hammered and devastated. Other regions are legitimately CLOSING hospitals and laying off ALL types of healthcare workers because they were basically not allowed to see any regular patients. By the way COVID-19 itself has had no legitimate interference beyond the normal in those regions, which is why those people are frustrated with lock-downs. At the same time, those in the more devastated regions are thinking “wtf is wrong with you people for opening and living your lives like nothing is wrong”

    Numbers “go up” or “go down” but context is not provided, is misrepresented, or deliberately manipulated, this IS happening all over the place, and it is beyond frustrating.

    What we need to do, is accept infectious disease as a new normal and figure out how to live with it effectively. We can all agree and should encourage others in increasing consumption of fresh fruits, vegetables, herbs, and spices. Extending this, are there particular nutritional options that are theoretically more or less effective in this circumstance?

    Yes, this particular video “stepped in it” getting off topic from nutritional stuff. But that again goes back to the inconsistencies in reporting for all kinds of self-serving reasons depending on the person or entity collecting or representing the data. Too much research and media in today’s time is flawed and seeks not to discover an unknown or report objectively, but to confirm a particular bias or narrative, while hiding that which doesn’t help the cause.

    So… let’s stick to nutrition solutions… please… =)

    1. SDW_Matt,

      You have made good points. The problem was that the areas who got hit hard were hit hard within a few weeks. The rest of the places that closed were trying to avoid that. Living in the Northeast USA, all of the states my relatives are in have been very high hit and it went from 0 cases to tens of thousands in weeks.

      Nobody knows whether other states would have gone through that if they hadn’t shut down. Those states though, maybe could have opened earlier or opened some things earlier. Or at least let their hospitals do normal care when there weren’t COVID-19 patients.

      The meat-packaging plants and essential workers did start becoming epicenters when people lived like normal and that is what the people making the decisions didn’t know when they were making the decisions.

      We will see in a week or two how ‘normally” society can be open.

      Will Florida, Texas, and Arizona become epicenters? Will their hospitals go from 85% filled to 105% filled or will people just adapt and flatten the curve and will the be able to do it without backing up – if not – then the trying to prevent it through socially isolating while preparations were made still makes sense.

      We didn’t have PPE’s for the doctors. We didn’t have any medicine that could help. We didn’t understand how it spread or who would die in the USA where 66%+ are obese and where we have an epidemic of diabetes and high blood pressure and all we knew was that these things increased the risk of death considerably.

      I don’t think we could have stayed open normally without doctors and nurses or anybody in society having masks.

      It is summer now and if we look at 1918, by August they didn’t have almost anyone dying at all. It came back with a vengeance after that. So, us having decreases and spikes at the same time makes it so hard for leaders to make these decisions.

      Many places could have opened earlier. I do believe that.

      But if we hadn’t pushed a pause button, more cities would have ended up like NY city and it would have been devastating.

  19. I watched the Frontline pandemic program last evening. I was amazed at the detail of the coverage, including interviews of health officials from several countries.
    When the pandemic first started here, my impression of prevention strategy was “slow it down,” so health care would not be run over. I also instinctually felt that a prolonged shut down could be summoning the devil in the way of systemic, economic destruction, i.e., whole cities of people without food and services. Translate this into mobs, looting and, well, I don’t have to get graphic here. Katrina (nation wide) might be an example.
    Real prevention is like good nutritional health. You turn off the tap of disease origin.

    1. Dan C

      The media coverage and online coverage of coronavirus has already proven to me that there are so many alternate universes that I can’t even catch up.

  20. Finally. This is good news, and long past due:

    “The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has issued almost 250 warning letters to individuals and companies since March demanding that they cease making (or assisting others in making) bogus claims that their nostrums can prevent or treat COVID-19. While it is not unusual for the FTC to go after health care product marketers, such as dietary supplement retailers, the agency’s warnings to licensed health care practitioners, especially regarding clinical treatments, are less common. It suggests both that the agency is taking COVID-19 very seriously and that it is actively searching the internet for COVID-19 claims, as opposed to acting solely on consumer complaints.

    It is unlawful under the FTC Act to advertise that a service or product can prevent, treat, or cure human disease unless there is competent and reliable scientific evidence, including, when appropriate, well-controlled human clinical studies, substantiating that the claims are true. Because no alleged preventative or treatment currently meets this standard for COVID-19, it is fairly easy for the FTC to conclude that advertisements making such health claims run afoul of the law, with a warning letter to follow.”
    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/ftc-warns-naturopaths-acupuncturists-physicians-and-chiropractors-about-false-and-misleading-covid-19-claims/

  21. I was just talking to parents who have decided to keep their children home again next year.

    They said that school will be opening but there will be no art, music, gym class, recess, kids will sit back to back 6 feet away and the areas like the gym will be utilized to cut the classrooms down to 10 kids who won’t be able to interact with each other during the day.

    The kids will be required to wear masks all day or face detention or being sent home.

    They listened and immediately said, “Nope.”

    1. The kids won’t even be looking into each others’ eyes or interacting at all.

      I wonder if they will put computers in front of them and have them use Zoom to interact within the classroom.

  22. As for why NYC was such a hotbed of COVID-19 infections, the major factor was that the NY governor sent infected patients (and not only elderly ones!) into nursing homes and required the nursing homes to accept them. Several other states did the same. (Residents, think about this when your governor is up for reelection!)

    Here are some other factors that might have played a role in NYC; CDC again provides no guidance, with the result that everyone fears an untimely death from this virus (which may ultimately prove to be no worse than a bad seasonal flu). Note that many of these factors were also present in Wuhan.

    NYC has a large elderly population. There are 1.2 million New York City residents over the age of 65. Statewide, nearly one in six New Yorkers is 65 or above.

    Multiple chronic conditions (MCC) are common in NYC.  The prevalence of MCC in New York City neighborhoods ranged from 33.5% in Gramercy Park—Murray Hill to 60.6% in High Bridge—Morrisania.  Statewide, 75% of adults in New York State had chronic conditions.  24.1% had one chronic condition, 18.4% had two conditions, and a whopping one-third (32.4%) of the population had three or more chronic conditions.

    Obesity is epidemic in NYC. More than half of adult city residents are overweight (34%) or obese (22%). Statewide,  nearly two-thirds (62.7%)  of NY adults were overweight or obese in 2018.

    Most people in NYC live in high density multifamily housing, which is more conducive to the spread of respiratory diseases than suburban single family living arrangements. Interconnected bathroom drains, shared toilets, interconnected central air and heat, and shared confined spaces like elevators and lobbies might be factors.

    NYC has by far the highest transit ridership among major US cities. While nearly 85 percent of the nation’s workers drive to their jobs, four-fifths of all rush-hour commuters to New York City’s central business districts use public transit. Over 5 million people ride the transit network each weekday. Much of the city relies on the subway, which is open 24 hours a day, as its main source of transportation.  Public transit is an ideal incubator for respiratory diseases due to extended contact with sick people in a small enclosed space.

    NYC has large ethnic populations with many people who may well have traveled to China or Europe before travel restrictions were in place.

    Smoking is common in NYC, especially among Asian men, with about a quarter of them being smokers. In New York City 13.4% of residents(886,000 adults) smoke.

    NYC is among the smoggiest cities in the nation, according to a 2019 report. Every borough except for Brooklyn received a grade F from researchers from the American Lung Association for smog levels. (Brooklyn only escaped getting an F because no monitoring data was available.) There are 1.6 million people with asthma in NYC.  New York City’s greater metro area is one of the most polluted in the country. According to the American Lung Association, stricter regulations on soot in the area could save 3,000 lives every year. People living in suburban environments generally have better access to parks, sunshine and fresh air than NYC residents.

    Low humidity favors the spread of respiratory viruses. At the time the virus reached NYC, central heating systems were in use and drastically lowered humidity. Sunlight, warmer temperatures and higher humidity (which are believed to hinder the spread of the virus) are rare commodities in polluted northern cities like NYC during fall, winter and early spring months, when viruses like seasonal influenza typically strike.

    But to recap, the actions of governors of states like NY who intentionally put nursing home residents at risk, vs actions of governors of states like Florida or Texas who immediately took steps to protect the elderly, those most vulnerable to the virus, explain the vast difference in COVID-19 infections and deaths between these states. The separate issue of possibly irreversible economic harm to individuals and businesses due to extended lockdowns likewise is a matter of different actions taken by state governors and big city mayors. Voters might try to remember this in November.

    1. For most of the nation the economic shutdown may have been unnecessary, beyond the first month or so: the time needed to learn more about the virus, build up supplies of medications to treat the disease, obtain FDA blessing for the medications and COVID-19 tests, build temporary hospitals (which actually were hardly utilized) and replenish supplies needed by hospitals. At that point, the country was prepared to face a pandemic without fearing a collapse of the hospital system. As Mark Levin has explained, the economic shutdown recommended by all the “experts” is actually suppressing the process of “herd immunity,” meaning that we will be encouraged by these same “experts” to go through this whole exercise again in the fall if the virus does not weaken in the meantime. Note also that flu vaccines are not very effective in elderly people (Bill Gates himself said so!)  This means that high risk people would not necessarily be protected by extending the economic shutdown until a COVID-19 vaccine is available. Those individuals would still need to voluntarily self quarantine as much as possible until the virus finally disappears, either sooner (with herd immunity) or later (with a vaccine). And if the experience of NYC (where two thirds of hospitalized COVID-19 patients were sheltering in place at home) is any indication, it may be next to impossible to protect oneself from infection in a major city anyway. Add to this problem the fact that much of the public has lost faith in our medical “experts” and may well ignore their pleas to get vaccinated against COVID-19.

      1. Caroline,

        Sweden still hasn’t reached herd immunity.

        Though I do probably agree that most places didn’t need the same level of lockdown as where I live.

        I guess we will find out because Arizona is already at 85% of their hospitals filled to capacity and their cases are climbing. Texas and Florida are having cases climb, too.

        There are 18 states with R Naught above 1 right now and hospitalizations are climbing in some of them and they haven’t been open that long.

        I guess what I am saying is that right now may tell us more. Autumn and Winter will likely tell us the most. Because we won’t keep in lockdown anymore.

        To me, the jury is still out, but Arizona reaching 85% of their hospital beds full already tells me that just about every state would have.

        1. Deb, I have researched this health issue since my spouse is a first generation Hispanic. For best health, Hispanics need to be thinner than most other ethnic groups (and the situation is the same for people from India and for Asians) since they tend to store more fat as visceral fat. “Arizona is home to 2.2 million Hispanics, or 31 percent of the state’s 7 million residents.”

          But in this country there are not a lot of skinny Hispanics. So health issues of people from Arizona may be partly to blame for the COVID-19 surge in your state, and as I suggested above, perhaps the best messaging about this pandemic would have been to focus on improving the overall poor health of Americans, and especially the poor health of African Americans and Hispanic Americans, two groups hit hardest by COVID-19. According to https://www.asu.edu/courses/css335/whyconcern.htm, African Americans and Hispanics rank number one and two among ethnic groups in highest rates of obesity and related diseases, including high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, heart disease, stroke, gall bladder disease, arthritis, sleep disturbances, breathing problems, and some cancers.. More than 60 percent of Hispanic-Americans will develop obesity and type 2 diabetes….Nearly one third of Latinos eat two or fewer servings of fruits and vegetables a day,and more than 80% of Latinos say that fruits and vegetables are hard to find at fast food restaurants. Their diet is typically high in fat and lacking in fruits and vegetables, according to the article, and they eat a lot of meals at fast food restaurants because of the affordable menus…. About 29.1% of Arizona’s Hispanic/Latinos have not participated in physical activity in the last 30 days. https://azdhs.gov/documents/prevention/tobacco-chronic-disease/health-disparities/publications-data/hispanic.pdf.

            1. Tom,

              The Latino paradox only applies to people who aren’t eating the SAD. They compared Latinos who ate their traditional diet to those who “westernized” is what we call it, though that might not be the geographically correct term in this case.

              It definitely isn’t the right term for many Latinos. I guess became SAD works at so many levels.

              In this pandemic, Hispanics in some areas died more than Blacks. Mostly, Blacks died more. In some places there was more of a Latino paradox, but more often not.

              It is hard to keep track of shifting data.

          1. Caroline,

            I understand what you are saying.

            What I am saying is that, I live in the Northeast, and every state surrounding NY ended up in the tens of thousands of cases within 2 to 3 weeks. It spread so fast and our nursing homes sometimes had 81% of the people test positive and 25% to 30% of the elderly in them die. Not every nursing home, but very quickly that was the type of situation.

            If we hadn’t shut down, models showed that once a major city becomes an epicenter, it spreads to every major city around it.

            If that had happened we would have been in such trouble because we didn’t even have enough masks, oxygen, ventilators, or meds for NY back then.

            You are right that other places could have opened but Arizona within a month has reached the point where 85% of their hospital beds are full. Texas, within a month, many hospitals have 95% of their ICU beds full. California is at the highest hospitalizations so far in the pandemic and Florida is likely to become the next epicenter, particularly in Miami where there are so many Latinos that we could have a serious disaster on our hands already and we will find out in a few weeks if we already do and it might be too late to eat their vegetables.

            One person went to a bar in Florida and 16 people got it from them is what I heard tonight.

            18 states now have R Naughts above 1. That means it is spreading.

            Dr. John Campbell played footage from NY and the young people are not wearing masks and not social distancing and the police are afraid to try to get them to socially distance, so they are letting it just happen. They have to now just let everything play out.

            We don’t know about the protest spikes yet. When this started, Dr. Campbell gave a timeline – where it took about 2 weeks for first symptoms and death was something like 5 weeks. If there were protest spikes, people will be going to the hospitals over the next 2 weeks. They didn’t get tested and show positive but a lot of testing centers were closed because of the protests so we don’t know yet. Plus, the protests are still going on, so we will find out, but it might be weeks from now. I am grateful that so far we haven’t seen an overt spike in many places, but we are having hospitalizations that they attribute to opening right now, and that happened before the protests so we might see those spikes soon.

            We have had thousands of people 45 and under die and we have had tens of thousands of people under age 65 die and the people around me who died were not on deaths door. They probably would have lived decades.

            That being said, we knew from the beginning that we were trying to buy time, hoping that there would be meds or a vaccine or at least masks for the doctors and nurses.

            That population is dying.

            In NY 50 teachers died and they were not retirement age.

            The good news is that we closed down long enough that there is a med that lowers the death rate by 1/5 and we are closer to a vaccine and have been trying out meds and the doctors have more experience than they did at the beginning.

            1. Two weeks from now we will know what might have happened if we had stayed open and the truth is, we won’t ever know because we didn’t have tests back then or PPE or hand sanitizer or toilet paper. The list goes on and on.

              I did buy 3 cases of toilet paper for work this week.

              Because I listen to Dr. Greger and this might have just gotten started.

              1. To me, what happens over the next two weeks trumps research of any kind for the USA.

                Meaning, we right now think there weren’t protest spikes, but the Black population is less likely to have a doctor and less likely to be motivated to leave protesting to get tested. There are protests every single day and they are highly motivated to keep attending. Many testing centers are drive-thru centers and they are less likely to have cars.

                Still, two weeks from now, and if there aren’t spikes, I will agree with the “no spike from protests” data.

                The country is so likely to have other cities get it soon and there are reasons. Air conditioning is a MAJOR one.

                16 people getting it from 1 person in a bar on 1 night.

                Chicago is about to have a heatwave. So are we.

                We are going to have way more cases this summer than we did in the winter is my prediction and air conditioning and lack of self-discipline will be my theory of why it happened.

                1. The heatwave documentary lady tried to get preparation for the Black Americans in Chicago to prepare for another heatwave but it is hard to get that kind of help at all even within the disaster preparedness movement.

                  They bought trucks that will keep the dead bodies cold but not ones that will keep the people from becoming dead bodies.

                  She talked about how afraid she was because they are a food desert and a medical care desert and they die in heatwaves and have so many comorbidities.

                  I did try to get her to see if she could get someone to try to prevent the Black deaths from heatwaves plus COVID-19 combined. She isn’t nutrition-oriented though and probably thought I was crazy to suggest that maybe the comorbidities could come down.

                  But air conditioning changing the indoor R Naught to the point where 1 person spreads it to 16 is the season we are in and people who saw too few death numbers think they understand who is dying but if we suddenly have the major cities all as epicenters at the same time then we will see that the thousands of people 45 and under and tens of thousands of people 65 and under and almost a thousand medical people could become so much bigger so quickly.

                  Even NY which has been doing well now has the youth doing almost a spring break type of interaction.

                  It would be devastating for them to get it again.

                  1. I honestly thought it was going to go away over the summer months and come back.

                    The logic is because people are outside and heat causes the droplets to fall faster.

                    But Florida is going to be an epicenter and it has so many elderly people and Latinos and my father hasn’t come back yet because Florida is more open and he wants to sit inside.

                    Because it is hot and humid outdoors.

                    I wonder if the old pandemics talked about this? I don’t think so because in 1918 they said the summer was quiet and Swine Flu had less than 22,000 deaths the first 150 days.

                    There is no “air conditioning” paradigm yet.

  23. Globally, we will be at 500,000 deaths by July 1st.

    Swine flu had fewer than 22,000 cases globally by 150 days in even though the end numbers might have been closer to 550,000.

  24. I say that because we are weary already in the process but this may be a marathon and we need to buck up for whatever happens and I mean that economically, health-wise, deaths-wise, food shortage-wise.

    Boy, my relatives went through 50 years of food shortages and pandemics and wars, plural, and, the Depression and recessions, and relatives facing polio and all sorts of unfair diseases and those weren’t even lifestyle-oriented. They had such good attitudes all the way through it.

    This pandemic has caused me to love and appreciate them even more.

    We are acting inconvenienced and as if this is over and it might not even have really begun yet.

    1. Deb, agree. Our ancestors went thru all that, didn’t fuss half as much. Current population in US are spoiled. They are acting like being asked to wear a mask is persecution. Many have lost all sense of considering the common good.
      In the grocery stores there are no longer dividers. You are supposed to wait till the person ahead has checked out. Yesterday, this 30ish man threw a fit when he was asked to wait. Started cursing and swearing. They had to call security. Apparently it’s too much to ask such a self important person to wait his turn. Unfortunately, there are many like him.

      1. Marilyn,

        Yes, we are almost all spoiled rotten now.

        This pandemic might take the last of the genuinely self-less elderly precious, precious generation.

        I watched them sacrifice, serve, and smile almost no matter what happened.

        We feel entitled to not go through anything and it might be a tad unrealistic.

        Also, we have hid what poor people go through from our eyes so we genuinely have insulated ourselves and pleasured ourselves into not being able to handle the slightest breeze.

  25. Hello, Nutrition Facts crew! I’ve been wondering about something off topic here. Should all my meals have fat for better nutrient absorption? Like if i ate only fruit for breakfast. Thanks!

  26. Well, it has been officially announced: Operation Warp Speed has been initiated – one of the many “conspiracy theory” agendas brought to you courtesy President Donald Trump and his handlers. Orders for 300 million vaccines, only possible to fulfill if one applies a mandate, forcing everyone to be injected by this hugely expensive solution by the vaccine profiteers. The death toll to come if this is enforced, by both harm from the vaccine and from massive insurrection, will make Covid-19 appear to be no more offensive than a sniffle. I can see, through these comments, the lines are already drawn – the submissive obedient non-questioning sheep will willingly line up for their “medicine” while others will be preparing for the ultimate fight for our sacred Liberty, to the death, if necessary.
    https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/06/16/fact-sheet-explaining-operation-warp-speed.html

    1. You may misunderstand, Jose. Those calling for government help developing a vaccine were not in the states rights, limited government crowd. It was the WHO, CDC, NIH”s Dr. Fauci, Bill Gates, and state governors and mayors who said that their residents would be locked down indefinitely until a vaccine was developed. The people who will benefit from a vaccine (as opposed to herd immunity) are those who are still too terrified to leave their homes and return to life as usual. Fortunately red states don’t have many of those folks, so we opened early here in TX, as did several other southern states. However, big city “blue” mayors here are still mandating mask wearing (unless of course you are protesting with BLM) which simply causes a good portion of their population to shop outside the city limits, giving the sales tax revenue to a neighboring  jurisdiction and helping the energy industry with increased gasoline sales.

      The irony of all of this is that the most at risk group, the elderly, seems to be ignoring the CDC directive to stay home, at least according to local posts on nextdoor. So the CDC has done a terrible job at messaging, and more concerning, we are ending up with a loss of credibility of scientific “experts” whose message seemed to change weekly, if not daily. And the takeaway was completely different depending on one’s source for “news.” When a truly dangerous (higher mortality rate) virus hits, people may well disregard advice of these experts.

      Note that the CDC does not address either nutrition or the importance of properly managing chronic diseases (or avoiding them in the first place). Perhaps that is understandable, given that the simple message below is being ignored by the at risk population and taken to heart by a significant number of people with a very slight risk of severe illness from the virus.

      CDC: 
      COVID-19 Guidance for Older Adults…Guidance for Older Adults at Higher Risk…Steps for Older Adults to Reduce Risk of Getting Sick…Steps to reduce risk of getting sick: There are things you can do to reduce your risk of getting sick. Stay home if possible. Wash your hands often. Keep space between yourself and others (stay 6 feet away, which is about two arm lengths)….What you can do: Stay home and avoid close contact, especially if you are at higher risk of severe illness or if you may have issues getting assistance if you get sick….If you are at higher risk for serious illness from COVID-19 because of your age or because you have a serious long-term health problem, it is extra important for you to take actions to reduce your risk of getting sick with the disease.Stay home if possible. Wash your hands often. Take everyday precautions to keep space between yourself and others (stay 6 feet away, which is about two arm lengths).

      1. Please clarify: What exactly may I misunderstand? I agree with everything you said after that. However, Operation Warp Speed was launched at Trump’s behest, if you were trying to place the blame on this boondoggle on “blue states” instead of the orange one.

  27. Dear Dr. Gregor,

    That you for the very good assessment and summary or where we are at and where we came from in responding to this pandemic. Especially your emphasis on the South Korean response and what we can learn from them. One might hypothesize that the authorities in S.Korea had early information that triggered their well-designed early response protocol. Clearly, they were not relying on the announcements from China, nor the advice of the WHO back in late January or early February or they would have been too late.

    There is one point of historical fact, however, should be included here The Chinese apparently locked down travel from Wuhan WITHIN China, but did not discourage people in Wuhan from travelling outside of China, nor did they advise the WHO or trading partners of the danger, nor did they allow the representatives of the CDC to visit Wuhan to make their own assessments. Does your research confirm these facts?

    How did the South Koreans figure it out? Perhaps observing the Chinese internal lock down was sufficient evidence for the Korean authorities to act? (A lock-down on civilian Aviation, for example, is easy to monitor from outside). I would love to know how they did it.

    We rely on the CDC to make these types of assessments and develop effective countermeasures. That’s their JOB. I wonder if the CDC received advice from South Korea and ignored it?

    We need to setup within the CDC the same level of competence exhibited by the South Korean authorities to protect us in the future. The amount of political posturing and lack of accountability is extraordinary and counterproductive. When people can’t do a critically important, life and death, job, it is reasonable for them to quit and be replaced with those who can. The US Marines management model for the frontline is what is needed here, not a politicized bureaucracy.

    And, we need a political class that understands something about strategy and supply chains to ensure that we have the manufacturing depth here in North America to create the necessary testing kits as quickly as possible without reliance on China.

    Yes, I know, 50/50 hindsight. Shoulda Coulda Woulda.

  28. We van not take back what happened in the beginning but our response now is important. The USA and Brazil are doing terribly, people whining about masks, etc., as if these personal freedoms are more important than life itself. China has recently experienced 100 cases and went on extreme lockdown. We had 116 cases in Costa Rica and again lost much of our driving privileges and opening. This is a pandemic. I welcome the strong responses. With that, we have lost 12 people out of almost 6 million people. The USA states are experiencing 50 to 2,000 times a greater prevalence of death from COVID-19 in various states. The virus remains extremely virulent and infective. Until a effective vaccine is available, our efforts must be strong.

  29. Hi Dr Greger and Team,

    Thank you so much for continuing to provide such wonderful information!

    Regarding COVID19, I am wondering if you can address or have already addressed on your web site or Pandemic book the following questions?

    1. How can scientists develop a COVID19 vaccine so quickly when they never did for SARS and it typically takes 10 years to produce a safe and effective vaccine?

    2. Even if scientists produce a COVID19 vaccine, how do they test it on Humans? Are they only looking for Human subjects to produce antibodies to the vaccine? Or do they expose vaccinated subjects to the real virus? How can producing antibodies prove that the vaccine will provide immunity to COVID19?

    3. How can the poisonous substances in the antigens off the vaccine possibly be safe at all for Humans? What genetic material are RNA vaccines introducing to our bodies? Does that include aborted fetal DNA or tissue?

    4. How will the efficacy or danger of these COVID19 vaccines be tested?

    5. What scientific data is there to prove that wearing masks is effective against the spread of specifically COVID19? Doesn’t common immunology best practices only have people that are sick wear masks? Why have healthy people been quarantined and not just the infected?

    6. How exactly do COVID19 tests actually test that people have COVID19 and not some other Coronavirus of which there are many that people have been exposed to?

    7. Hasn’t the lock down due to COVID19 produced worse effects on people than the virus itself?

    8. How can so many hospitals be so empty and laying of staff if there is really a Pandemic?

    9. Why don’t the statistics show that the deaths due to COVID19 are any worse that due to Influenza and that the majority of deaths are in the elderly which is typical?

    Thanks,
    David

    1. David, my theory is that compromised endothelial function and undiagnosed clotting disorders explain most of the COVID-19 deaths. CDC could be investigating theories such as this one, but they are not. The true CDC mission may well be influenced by the fact that Nancy Messonnier (sister of Rod Rosenstein) is the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases at the CDC, and “is working on the CDC response to the COVID-19 pandemic.” I am not a medical professional, and I came upon my theory by analyzing what the high risk groups (aged individuals, diabetics, people with CVD, obese individuals) have in common.

      I posted this as a comment to one of the other COVID-19 videos; perhaps Dr. Greger or someone with an MD-PhD can weigh in. There are two very inexpensive tests available for widespread screening to identify people with endothelial dysfunction or clotting disorders, so that those identified as high risk could take more precautions against being infected with the virus and could be immediately hospitalized and treated aggressively if they do test positive. Locking down the healthy population is a ridiculous strategy if it turns out to be the case that those at highest risk of death could be easily identified.

      “Now, researchers have woven these findings into a new hypothesis explaining why some patients slip into a fatal “second phase” of COVID-19, 1 week or so after hospitalization. The key is direct and indirect damage to the endothelial cells that line the blood vessels, particularly in the lungs, explains Peter Carmeliet, a vascular biologist at the Belgian research institute VIB and co-author of a 21 May paper in Nature Reviews Immunology. By attacking those cells, COVID-19 infection causes vessels to leak and blood to clot. Those changes in turn spark inflammation throughout the body and fuel the acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) responsible for most patient deaths….This mechanism could explain why the disease pummels some patients who have obesity, diabetes, and cardiovascular conditions: The cells lining their blood vessels are already compromised. …The array of pathways may also explain why some young people without known risk factors for COVID-19 become seriously ill: They might have undiagnosed clotting or autoimmune disorders, such as rheumatoid arthritis, that amplify the effects of SARS-CoV-2 infection….Another commonly prescribed drug might help: statins. Typically taken to lower cholesterol, they also reduce inflammation and improve endothelial cell function.” https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/blood-vessel-attack-could-trigger-coronavirus-fatal-second-phase

  30. Bringing politics into a health-based video? For many years we looked to you for medical science advice, and now you are going to take an unfair shot at the President regarding a tweet from February 24?? He made a statement based on the advice of his medical experts. We stopped supporting Dr. John McDougall for the same reason! Maybe you should conduct yourself in a similar manner to Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, who always keeps his videos classy, regardless of his political leanings!

  31. What do you know about the reliability and accuracy of the current tests for Covid? Are they trustworthy and worth getting if you want to be sure?

  32. I would like your opinion on the wearing of masks during the pandemic, it seems only common sense to do so, however there seems to be some push back. The following information has been circulating recently and I haven’t found any resources to refute it. My hope is that your group has some information that will be helpful. Thank https://www.sott.net/article/434796-The-Science-is-Conclusive-Masks-and-Respirators-do-NOT-Prevent-Transmission-of-Viruses?fbclid=IwAR3mqsUaJs8ttSxzMlB-D29uvBlrfhXj0GKeGNUCFOZwCHnOeApQ55ESMPA

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