Does Marijuana Cause Lung Cancer?

Does Marijuana Cause Lung Cancer?
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On a puff-by-puff basis, cannabis smoke deposits four times more tar in the lungs than tobacco, but does this translate into increased cancer risk?

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

“There are at least 33 carcinogens in marijuana smoke,” such as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, which are products of combustion found in grilled meat and flowing through the bodies of those that smoke marijuana, similar to what one sees flowing through the bodies of cigarette smokers. That’s really remarkable: most tobacco users inhale way “more smoke into their lungs” over the course of a day, so on a puff-by-puff basis, is marijuana smoke really that much worse?

Well, it does seem to contain more benzopyrene and benzanthracene, which are “polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon procarcinogens,” compared to unfiltered cigarette smoke. But it may just be that cannabis users inhale more deeply, and then hold the smoke in longer, which can end up depositing four times more tar in the lungs, “amplifying exposure” to these carcinogens. And, unfortunately, bubbling the smoke through water, like in a bong, does not appear to reduce the risks of tar buildup.

Yeah, marijuana smoke tar may have similar tumor-promoting effects as cigarette smoke… in mice, but what about in men (and women)?.

Longtime marijuana users do have more cancer, more lung cancer, more oral cancer, voice box cancer—but only, it seems, because they also tend to be more likely to also smoke tobacco. After cigarettes were taken out of the equation, no increased risk was found.

Same with head and neck cancer. One study found “increased risk,” but “five studies reported no association,” and “one study [found] decreased risk.” So yeah, “[r]egular use…causes airway injury [that can lead to] chronic bronchitis,” but no evidence of long-term lung damage, like emphysema. And, “[d]espite the presence of carcinogenic components,” no apparent increased risk of lung cancer— though “evidence is mixed regarding the risk of heavy, long-term use.” And that may be the crux.

In terms of smoke exposure, even smoking a joint every day for 10 years may only translate to six months of pack-a-day cigarette smoking. “In most studies on tobacco smoking and lung cancer,” six months in a lifetime might get you “classified as [a] never smoker.” It may take a couple years of cigarette smoking to significantly bump lung cancer risk; and so, that would be like smoking a joint every day of your adult life. No wonder we can’t find a lung cancer link with casual marijuana use, though there is an alternative explanation. Maybe the antitumor effects of the cannabis plant are counteracting “the tumor-promoting effects of the carcinogens…in the smoke.” Wait; antitumor effects?

Yes, in fact, the original demonstration of an anticancer effect, dating back to 1975, was against lung cancer cells, showing that THC can suppress their growth in a petri dish. This kind of data has led to wild claims of cancer cures “on the Internet, extrapolating the results of [this] preclinical work,” meaning like in petri dishes and test tubes, “to humans without any basis in fact,” as cannabis, according to this 2016 review, has not been studied clinically as a treatment for malignancy in people. But that’s not really true. There was a pilot study performed on terminal brain cancer patients. We’ll find out what they found, next.

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Image credit: TechPhotoGal via Pixabay. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video.

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

“There are at least 33 carcinogens in marijuana smoke,” such as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, which are products of combustion found in grilled meat and flowing through the bodies of those that smoke marijuana, similar to what one sees flowing through the bodies of cigarette smokers. That’s really remarkable: most tobacco users inhale way “more smoke into their lungs” over the course of a day, so on a puff-by-puff basis, is marijuana smoke really that much worse?

Well, it does seem to contain more benzopyrene and benzanthracene, which are “polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon procarcinogens,” compared to unfiltered cigarette smoke. But it may just be that cannabis users inhale more deeply, and then hold the smoke in longer, which can end up depositing four times more tar in the lungs, “amplifying exposure” to these carcinogens. And, unfortunately, bubbling the smoke through water, like in a bong, does not appear to reduce the risks of tar buildup.

Yeah, marijuana smoke tar may have similar tumor-promoting effects as cigarette smoke… in mice, but what about in men (and women)?.

Longtime marijuana users do have more cancer, more lung cancer, more oral cancer, voice box cancer—but only, it seems, because they also tend to be more likely to also smoke tobacco. After cigarettes were taken out of the equation, no increased risk was found.

Same with head and neck cancer. One study found “increased risk,” but “five studies reported no association,” and “one study [found] decreased risk.” So yeah, “[r]egular use…causes airway injury [that can lead to] chronic bronchitis,” but no evidence of long-term lung damage, like emphysema. And, “[d]espite the presence of carcinogenic components,” no apparent increased risk of lung cancer— though “evidence is mixed regarding the risk of heavy, long-term use.” And that may be the crux.

In terms of smoke exposure, even smoking a joint every day for 10 years may only translate to six months of pack-a-day cigarette smoking. “In most studies on tobacco smoking and lung cancer,” six months in a lifetime might get you “classified as [a] never smoker.” It may take a couple years of cigarette smoking to significantly bump lung cancer risk; and so, that would be like smoking a joint every day of your adult life. No wonder we can’t find a lung cancer link with casual marijuana use, though there is an alternative explanation. Maybe the antitumor effects of the cannabis plant are counteracting “the tumor-promoting effects of the carcinogens…in the smoke.” Wait; antitumor effects?

Yes, in fact, the original demonstration of an anticancer effect, dating back to 1975, was against lung cancer cells, showing that THC can suppress their growth in a petri dish. This kind of data has led to wild claims of cancer cures “on the Internet, extrapolating the results of [this] preclinical work,” meaning like in petri dishes and test tubes, “to humans without any basis in fact,” as cannabis, according to this 2016 review, has not been studied clinically as a treatment for malignancy in people. But that’s not really true. There was a pilot study performed on terminal brain cancer patients. We’ll find out what they found, next.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: TechPhotoGal via Pixabay. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video.

Doctor's Note

Stay tuned for Can Cannabis Cure Cancer? next, but I have a whole treasure chest of cannabis videos that are going to be dribbling every month or so until the end of 2019. If you want to see them now, I put them all in a digital DVD that you can stream now or download.

Here are the ones that are up so far:

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

115 responses to “Does Marijuana Cause Lung Cancer?

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  1. I just made the Portobello & greens spread from the How Not To Die Cookbook.

    But it calls for 6 cups of cut up greens, because this is Chinese to me luckily there is a metric unit in the cookbook also which says 1.3 kilograms greens.
    So, I just made this and it turned out to be totally wrong as reflected in the poor dish. After looking it up the 6 cups would translate into 450 grams of greens. That’s almost 3 times less then what was called for in the recipe. Isn’t there someone who can proofread the stuff, this happens again and again.

    On a positive note, the How Not To Die Cookbook is really the best one out there! I mean, the cookbooks by all the other wfpb people out there are either really bland tasting like Dr. Fuhrman’s cookbooks (vinegar with plants seems to be the basic premise in every recipe), The china study é forks over knifes with Del and the happy herbivore are all totally bland tasting. I’m really hoping for a second cookbook from Nutritionfacts, because these recipes are my staples.

    The cookbook from Naked Food Magazine is also pretty good but I have to tone it down calorie wise and it doesn’t have that much recipes because they felt the need to put in 100 pages with food labels for every type of vegetable, which off course doesn’t belong in a cookbook but in the database of the usda.

    1. Netgogate, I don’t have the cookbook or recipe you speak about, but I am accustomed to recipes that use cups as measures of Volume. In my cooking I would never translate cups to weight measures (or rarely) except for maybe lentils or something. In the case of a pesto or spread recipe, I might add the other ingredients to the blender machine first, and add greens by the handful until the right consistency is reached. (takes me a week to eat a 200 gm bag of greens btw)

      You might find pyrex measuring cups, and stainless cups and spoons measures for sale on Amazon that would make your life simpler.

    2. Netogate, I have been baking bread for a few years now, and early on bought a kitchen scale (measures both ounces and grams). Which I find myself using more and more for cooking. European cookbooks use weights, for both baking and cooking; I wish American cookbooks did, too. What’s a medium potato? A bunch of kale? (These really vary at the grocery store, depending on the season!) My favorite recipes provide volumes and weights, and sometimes estimates — “about 1 medium onion,” etc.

  2. Interesting would be to know the effects of inhaling heated Cannabis instead of smoking it. Like using a vaporizer. You can even choose the target temperature since it has effect on certain ingredients of the weed.

    1. Same question. I live in small, Colorado town famous for its cannabis and nearly everyone I know but me uses it at least a bit. Almost no one smokes it. They either vape it or consume it in home made edibles.

        1. Ok 28% of the kids used “This compared with 75% of the teenagers who said they drank alcohol at least occasionally.
          Prof Patricia J Conrod, lead study author, from the department of psychiatry at Montreal, said she had expected alcohol to have had more of an impact on the teenagers’ brains.”

          And the study sample started at age 13.
          Now what is to presuppose, the kids, who went to using pot, a illegal thing at that time in Canada(it is legal this October but not for kids)..
          were not using pot as they had problems with their learning abilities, and such, reflecting in poor grades, lowering their self esteem, driving them to use pot? A step further than alcohol probably down that road.
          And how many of these same kids then used pot and alcohol. Since the alcohol numbers are so high, we can presuppose these 28% used alcohol as well, and then the study is not one of pot only but pot and alcohol.

          I find it highly unlikely kids at that age are using pot, but not also alcohol, as the numbers who use alcohol are so high in this group. It seems almost absurd to suppose they would use the one and not the other as all their classmates are largly using the other.
          So the lead should read…. pot and alcohol in kids cause problems, not pot only.
          Neither is good for kids I think we may attest and should remain illegal for them in any regard.
          But this study…..interesting but not really adding a whole lot to the discussion.

          The Brits are all against, (their media) the legalization of pot in Canada. It is a done deal now but they will do anything to represent pot as bad and alcohol as not so much so it does not become law in the UK.
          Pot competes directly with big pharma pain meds and existant alcohol distributorships so corporate interest is always going to be against it.
          It is not completely harmless certainly no kids should take it but it does not deserve demonization as well. Alcohol better in most contexts for kids than pot……well how bad is bad? That is what we are looking at here.

          .

          1. I no longer use cannabis, don’t like the feeling at all. But I was a copious user for couple years of high school and 1st year of college. It was schedule 1, felony, juvenile hall, prison in those days. Looking back, it is clear to me I used it because I was so disgusted with and angry at what was being passed of as “education” and the overall structure of the society I was stuck in. Can’t really tell if it effected my mental competence at all though I suspect not much in the long run. But it did dramatically stunt my emotional growth I think. Then again, if it weren’t for smoking pot, I might have gone truly crazy and ended up in prison for serious crimes against property and possibly people; self medicating enabled to to tolerate the intolerable life of a hippy adolescent in John Birch Society, Orange County, California.

        2. I took a look at your article from the BBC health pages. My initial reaction was to be sure to have one’s teenagers drink alcohol rather than smoke marijuana (this website is devoted to teenage health, isn’t it?). Then I read this:

          “…It can be addictive and using it has been shown to increase the risk of developing psychotic illnesses, particularly in adolescents.

          Giving up cannabis can lead to withdrawal symptoms, such as sleeping problems and mood swings, experts say.”

          When marijuana is called out for being addictive and causing psychotic “illnesses,” and stopping using, it is alleged, causes the victim to go into withdrawal, I stop reading. Harry Anslinger deserves a place in the Propaganda Hall of Fame; his fine work resonates throughout this credulous world. His having handcuffed Billie Holiday “on her death bed due to suspicion of drug use and possession” was just one of the highlights in the life of the man who made marijuana the feared and hated weed it is today. Even on the BBC.

          1. When I hear it, I think of people I knew.

            A few friends in high school, who are dead now. A few friends in college, who started acting really strange and lost their minds. A friend’s son who lost his mind and tried to kill his father. A young man from church who got addicted to pot and said that he went to a person’s house for a pot brownie weekend and the hosts eventually pulled out power tools and tried to kill him. (I am not sure if they thought he took an extra pot brownie or what.) And another incident where a hospital security guard got a young man who had been off pot for years back into pot and they had the same eventually got paranoid and tried to kill him situation. The mother of that young man told me that she had been into it, too, and she had gotten paranoid and their lives were out of control and they were saying “out of their minds” sentences. (She was apologizing to me for things which had happened years before and was telling me that they were high all the time.) I also think about young people suddenly being schizophrenic and the discussion of which came first the schizophrenia or the pot. And I think of my friend’s father ending up on the floor at the pot dispensary after edibles there and ending up in the ER with paddles on his heart an hour later. Mostly, I think about the young men I worked with back then who just smoked pot all day and didn’t work at all. They genuinely hid. The thing is, I have two young men who work with me now who are vapers and they are people who just show up when they want to. They both miss at least two days of work per week but are pretty good workers when they come. I am the one who doesn’t fire them because I can use the part-time help and they do jobs which require some skill so their brains are still intact, but they are people who just remind me of the potheads from when I was growing up.

            That all sounds like I would be against pot, but I have been waiting for the next video because I am giving CBD oil to my dog. Not sure if my answer will be in it because I am doing CBD oil without the THC, but I am trying to learn the real risks and real benefits and am not against pot. I am not going to whitewash it or come against it. With young people, I am probably against BOTH pot and alcohol use.

            Hooray, it is here!

            1. There are some people who should not use psychoactive THC because of that small risk of provoking psychosis or schizophrenia. For the vast majority though, it is not an issue. It would be fascinating and or course, very helpful, if we could somehow identify those at risk in advance so they could avoid any problems.

              1. I knew one person, a street person. Talking with him extensively, many hours, it became clear to me he was, manic depressive, they used to call it.
                I asked him if he wanted to combat his alcoholism..he stated firmly not.

                The why of the not…it was as he being poor, no access to health care, of the psychiatric kind…it was as he managed his mental illness.
                Of course he was a alcoholic as consequence, but he reigned in his most overt destructive manias. And he managed then to live when without it he would likely be dead or at the least in prison. The drugs he may have been prescribed, some do not react to them well..leaving them in a daze all day, a very dangerous thing in some places.
                Point being…. overuse of alcohol and drugs to include pot, may be indicative of a attempt by individuals to manage their illnesses, not causing their illnesses. If you are poor many mental health services are simply not available to you. And if those who bring you up are uneducated, likely suffering the same disease(much has a genetic tendency) you mange it as they manage it. How to attempt to manage the appearance of overt symptoms one recognizes….drug or alcohol use. And sometimes they fail in that, it is highly unpredictable but all they have.

                This is why personal evidence for this or that may be not indicating what we think it is. I can show study that evidences the portion of those kids using pot are having a portion of their brain less developed then their non pot using peers…..well conclusively one may say…this shows pot produces brain damage…look one part smaller in most all the kids using it……

                But the smaller part found is of course the part remediating impulsive behavior, our self control element.
                So clearly if one is a kid and lacks self control, one of the things they may do is….smoke pot. The evidence is not a symptom but a cause.
                These things are easily misread especially if agenda is afoot.
                And afoot it is proven by donation to campaign against legalization, evidenced in states that have it on their ballots in recent history.
                Curiously, I believe it was the union representing prison employees, one of them in California donating. So agenda may be quite a unusual aspect to study. Cerrtainly it represents in media and how we look at the thing.

                1. Here is one source, but there are many, on prison guards unions donations against legalization of pot..https://theintercept.com/2016/05/18/ca-marijuana-measure/

                  I have never actually heard anyone with a successful counter which supposes this untrue. In media how we context the issue is the means to manipulate the discussion, leading to only certain conclusions.

                  Mental illness if very rarely discussed in relation to abuse. Yet if we study heavy abusers, I expect we would find most suffer from some degree of mental illness. Yet we presuppose that substance caused that. If it is framed that way, incarceration becomes reasonable.
                  If not no..proper treatment then is the issue. Not prison law police but docs nurses and all that.

                2. Ron,

                  I do believe that it could work both ways. Sometimes the chicken comes first and sometimes the egg.

                  I can go to my friend’s schizophrenic son and I knew him before and after pot and even if the schizophrenia was there, the pot was something which definitely pushed him over the edge mentally. He would get slightly better when he couldn’t afford pot or when he went to jail for it and was off of it for a while. Then, he would be thinking he was Jesus and was saying to me, “I can tell right away that you believe in me.” Eventually, it became on and off schizophrenia meds, which changed the behaviors much more radically.

                  They also owned a cat and didn’t eat foods with any nutrition and I could point to low magnesium or homocysteine or raging out of control blood sugar or 4 liters of soda per day with other junk food consumption.

                  He is a sweet kid 99.999% of the time but tried to kill someone when he was out of his mind.

                  1. When I lived out in California, there were a few people who were pot smoker film students and by the time people were graduating, they were starting to lose their minds and one of them started sleeping on people’s couches from place to place.

                    I just remember that I don’t think he went schizophrenic. But he was someone who went from being articulate to being mentally off and who just wanted to sleep on couches and not get his own apartment.

                    I say that and understand that I went from being someone who used to be fairly articulate and now I have been “off” for a few years and that was other brain injury than pot, so I get that it can be complicated. I do know some people who are way off from being house painters and who are way off from years of alcoholism and who are off from brain injury from accidents, but I also do know people who are “off” from decades of pot as young people.

                    1. The thing I will be interested in is how many of these young people go into what I would call “nineteen sixties logic.”

                      Nah, I am not going to get a full-time job. I am just going to hitchhike around and smoke pot and just sleep on people’s couches.

                      I actually have a young relative who has been doing that for the past 9 months. She is in her twenties and can get away with it. I don’t know how she has done it, except that she is pretty. She has gotten one family after another after another after another to take her in and drive her around and feed her and they help her get to the next place and she has traveled to several countries this way and her family never has any concept of where she is, except when the next nice people who took her in let her use their long distance for free.

                    2. Personal experience is of course personal and we can mostly not draw general conclusions from it.

                      I mentioned one fellow I knew who managed his bi polar problem with self administered alcohol. I did not mention another who had money and means for psychiatric care, and was then under care and treated with assistance of a drug regime.
                      When off his drugs he would do quite preposterous things..in a break room at work he spray painted the TV screen black. He knocked out the front window of his cousins truck with his legs, tried to kill his wife…..
                      He is now dead. Suicide. The first I guess he is still alive. A drunk but not doing those sorts of things.

                      My personal experience is counter to yours. And back in the day, I was all about hanging with that crowd, it was what I did.
                      Psychiatric problems, it seemed to draw those in to it. Why do a certain type of street person hang around counter culture spots….seems it draws them in. They know they are different and seek different places and things. Burning man….I had a friend who was clearly unbalanced but went to burning man each and every year…why he was different, a great artist but drawn to difference as a consequence of mental illness.

                      In the main my experience of life says not….it is not the pot but mental things which draw them to it. Like actually those who abuse alcohol which may by tendency be a more genetic suspectability but nevertheless may reflect as treatment option for those who have not means nor education.

                    3. Keep in mind, the advent of some illnesses like schizophrenia, present first at the approximate age one may be entering college or living outside the home for the first time, late teens very early twenties.

                      Which is also the time many first try pot. WE may as well then say..well entering college then causes it. Because by population that may be fact as well.
                      The type of overt symptoms leading peoples to try to kill others, I firmly believe pot, had little to do with the presentation. A person hearing voices at times of stress, but not acting on them…maybe it had a part to it, if they did.
                      But some are just destined by genetics and particular environmental parts being present in upbringing destined to it. Those overt in symptoms, probably it is the latter.

                      My friend who rarely ever used pot but did try to kill his wife, lived to about 50 or so. His was of the genetic tendency and environmental condition sort…. he would tend to stop the drugs, as his type, was attuned to the physical. So those drugs to remediate it had that effect..slowed you made you fat.
                      So he invariably did and is dead.
                      Would he have suffered better if a CBD oil with THC element was a option(not having that physical effect) we will not know, as study is so hindered by federal classification of pot as with no benefit illegal drug none has been done.

                      Does it need to be done..firmly yes. Peoples stopping those prescribed drugs for that reason Is not rare. AS in opioid for pain alternatives have to be examined.

                  2. Deb, I think the causes of schizophrenia are probably multi-factorial, but unlikely to be caused by pot.

                    Here is an interesting theory and observation; have you seen this?

                    — At first glance, the idea seems bizarre — what does the immune system have to do with the brain? — but it jibes with a growing body of literature suggesting that the immune system is involved in psychiatric disorders from depression to bipolar disorder. —

                    — Minocycline has since been studied by others. Larger trials suggest that it’s an effective add-on treatment for schizophrenia. Some have argued that it works because it tamps down inflammation in the brain. But it’s also possible that it affects the microbiome — the community of microbes in the human body — and thus changes how the immune system works. —

                    He Got Schizophrenia. He Got Cancer. And Then He Got Cured.
                    A bone-marrow transplant treated a patient’s leukemia — and his delusions, too. Some doctors think they know why.
                    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/29/opinion/sunday/schizophrenia-psychiatric-disorders-immune-system.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

                    I think it’s better to try to change your micro biome with diet: easier, cheaper, and healthier, with no adverse side effects, only benefits. Decreased CVD risk!! Decreased diabetes risk!! etc etc etc

                    1. Dr. J.

                      Thanks for that link!

                      Very cool!

                      Yes, but that is my whole point.

                      We do psychiatric meds when people have cats or don’t have nutrition or don’t have good gut microbiomes or come from abuse and don’t have coping mechanisms or are potheads. My friends with children diagnosed with ADHD or Autism have the same “Put them on psych drugs” as a first resort and don’t ever get to examining diet or toxicity exposure or family abuse or lack of parenting as why a child wouldn’t sit still.

                      I don’t agree with everything Dr. Amen says, but he said that 80% of the people who come to him have a change of diagnosis and change of treatment if they have a brain scan. I know that scan is controversial, but him saying that before the scans he was just guessing based on symptoms and after the scans, he looks at people’s brains and immediately asks, “Are you smoking pot” because of what pot looks like in a brain scan versus what something else looks like.

                      Just guessing.

            2. Wow, Deb….I’ve posted this before: You sure have known a lot of colorful characters during your lifetime, haven’t you! Friends, relatives, etc. Amaaaaazing! (*_*)

            1. In this link they reference a study done on 8000 peoples who have used these drugs. 9% reported incidence of addiction for pot occurred and 15% for alcohol. 33% for nicotine.
              Pot has not a physical addiction property but a psychological one.
              I have not seen anyone on this blog claim that it is not.

              1. Ron

                My post was in response to Steve’s earlier post in which he stated:

                “When marijuana is called out for being addictive and causing psychotic “illnesses,” and stopping using, it is alleged, causes the victim to go into withdrawal, I stop reading.”

                1. I think Steve is referencing the lack of physical addiction in pot. It does not have the withdrawal symptoms one associates with heroine and like substances. So there is a difference. It has symptoms but of a different variety based on psychological affect. .

            2. Mr Fumblefingers, I tend not to trust government websites, especially their USDA dietary advice ones (heavily influenced by industry lobbying; the agency serves two masters, frequently with conflicting interests: the ag industry, and human nutrition — if it was any fair and impartial, would we need this NF?) and the drug abuse ones (heavily influenced by the government position on marijuana as a schedule 1 drug, and the drug laws enacted with discriminatory intent). I’m now watching the demise of the EPA, and a few other ones. I would much prefer to see links to research articles published in peer reviewed journals.

              1. Dr J

                I think this attitude, while very common, verges on conspiracy thinking unless you have a good reason for thinking that any particular piece of information or guidance is tainted . There is a research base which supports the position on that USDA website..

                Allso, hen it comes to credibility, I think I would give it to the US Government rather than a pothead on a comment thread who says he stops reading when he sees research studies or analyses which show that pot is addictive for some people.

                Further, I don’t actually think that there is any significant difference between the dietary and other guidance issued by US Government agencies and the analyses offered by NutritionFacts. Both recommend eating more fruits, vegetables and whole grains. The US Dietary Guidelines even state that well planned vegetarian and vegan diets are healthful. Yes, the USDA is constrained – it can’t say don’t eat processed meat, fatty meat, full fat dairy, refined carbohydrates etc but it does a reasonable job in difficult circumstances of implying that this is what we should do. It’s also fairly clear to me that the US Government nutritional advice is that our diet should be based on fruit, vegetables and whole grains with small amounts of fish/lean meat/low fat dairy to deliver B12, omega 3s, vitamin D, zinc, selenium, iodine etc which would be deficient in unplanned totally vegetarian diets. It doesn’t recommend supplements which is where one of the main difference between the guidelines and Nutritionfacts lies. Another is that the official position, unlike Dr Greger, discounts studies by Esselstyn, Campbell, Ornish etc because they weren’t large randomised, controlled trials or, as in Ornish’s case, they used multiple interventions at the same time so it is impossible to detarmine the effects solely due to diet. Consequently, it relies on the available ‘good quality’ evidence which points in the direction of certain eating patternssuch as the Mediterranean diet, DASH diet and so-called healthful vegetarian diets which include some animl foods but exclude meat.

                I don’t want to sound combative but I have seen too many snake oil merchants and cranks promoting their wares by stating that yes the published evidence shows their diets/cures/beliefs/whatever are incorrect and/or dangerous, but anything said by the US Government or funded (or even referenced) by the NIH, or listed on PubMed is bogus science or fabricated by Big Pharma/Big Ag/Vegans/the NWO or whatever and therefore should automatically be ignored. I realise that you aren’t one of them but their oft-repeated assertions seem to have infiltrated the entire Zeitgeist and are almost received wisdom these days.

            1. The BBC article of poor science and erroneous conclusion. Think NBC picked up on the study I linked…… no effect in teen use…nah never ever going to happen. Big pharma advertises to a large extend in national media and thus has a big say in what shows and what does not.
              /

      1. I wonder if they are doing it socially or on their own.

        That is a contrast from passing around a joint or a bong. More That 70’s Show. Or Cheech and Chong.

        The older people around me still think about it the way they did when they were younger as a social experience. I know that from parties. They are nostalgic for that communal experience.

        Where I just wonder how much bad gut bacteria gets spread that way.

    2. I was wondering the same question as to whether vaping marijuana is less harmful since there’s no combustion or if it’s more because it’s concentrated and is broken down into finer particles that can penetrate lung tissue easier. In addition, most vape pens contain propylene glycol which the FDA marked as “safe” yet still has some sort of toxicity if I’m not mistaken as it’s a petroleum byproduct.

      Thanks!

    3. reading the comments, i see sheep everywhere.. ” I watched fake news and they said Cannabis is bad”.. wow, just wow. simple facts. Cannabis was one of the most used drugs / plants in the history of mankind. Corporate GREED outlawed it and keeps it illegal. ” IF they only had more studies”? Cannabis being kept as a schedule one drug, YOU CANNOT DO STUDIES ON IT… If they do allow a study, the study MUST first have a negative impact on cannabis. (this is an actual demand or the permission to run a test is denied). To only use a study about ” SMOKING POT” the whole smoking anything is bad for you comes into play. Websites or news that run these kind of articles are usually sucking up to the pharmacy lobby or Corporate advertisers. just got the book, checking out the webpage and not impressed with either.

  3. All cannabis smokers should know that the long hold is totally unnecessary. You also don’t have to suck the smoke down to your toes.
    Vaping eliminates most of the particulates and is certainly easier on the throat by a long shot. Finally, consuming cannabis eliminates lung and throat issue altogether.

    1. Research “does not exist” if it has been done outside the US, Canada, maybe some Western European stuff. Lot of research on cannabis vs cancer and other diseases ongoing in Israel however, and most likely none of that will make on to Dr Greger’s radar screen. I personally know two people who have had diagnosed, advanced prostate cancer vanish from cannabis use. It does take extremely high doses of cannabinoids though which can only be gotten via what is known as Simpson’s Oil, RSO, or Phoenix Tears. And what is sold as that in shops too often is not. It really is, at this point, a DIY project unfortunately and first step is sourcing a fairly substantial quantity of high THC, Indica strain.

      1. There are plenty of anecdotes on the net of people whose cancer disappeared after they followed some alternative cure or other. Often, they were also receiving conventional treatment but diehard believers will often attribute their remission cure to the B17 or cannabis or whatiever. Sometimes, they say that they gave up conventional treatmment altogether and it was the alternative therpy alone which cured them. That’ s fine but the problem is we only ever hear from the survivors. How many people also tried such methods but didn’t survive?

        That’s why we need well-designed scientific studies to determine if such methods are effective. If Israeli researchers, scientists and physicians are really using cannabis to great effect in cancer treatment and studies, I am sure that we would hear about it in the professional literature. Can you cite any scientific sources for this ‘Lot of research on cannabis vs cancer ‘?

        1. This drug is used in 24 countries to treat MS…” Nabiximols ( USAN , [1] trade name Sativex ) is a specific extract of Cannabis that was approved as a botanical drug in the United Kingdom in 2010 as a mouth spray to alleviate neuropathic pain , spasticity , overactive bladder , and other symptoms of multiple sclerosis ; it was developed by the UK company GW Pharmaceuticals . [2] [3] The drug is a pharmaceutical product standardised in composition, formulation, and dose. Its principal active cannabinoid components are the cannabinoids: tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol (CBD).”

        2. Thanks Ron but this isn’t Israeli research and nor did it trial the use of cannabis, which is what Geoffrey was posting about. As one of the study authors commented in that article you linked to

          “Our research uses an isolated chemical compound and using the correct concentration is vital. Cancer patients should not use cannabis to self-medicate…”

          1. Tom, this article references 110 clinical trials ongoing in Israel in recent times…..https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2017-04-11/israel-is-a-global-leader-in-marijuana-research
            It is not recreationally available but they do seemingly use it very much for medical reasons and have a part of government that is responsible for that and related issues. Only three other governments have that functionally I think.

            1. Thanks Ron. However, the article doesn’t provide any links or even citations for this research. Therefore it is hard to determine if the research is solely about cannabis as such or whether it is largely about (patentable) chemical compounds extracted from cannabis (or even manufactured analogues). I strongly suspect the latter (ie chemical compounds of some sort) since that is where the patents and thus the profits are to be found.

              Perhaps I am too cynical but I doubt if any of it will demonstrate that cannabis consumption (smoking, vaping, edibles, suppositories etc) should be part of a healthy diet and lifestyle which is the conclusion pot enthusiasts seem to be hoping for. Medical benefits in specific circumstances yes, but with side effects like any other drugs no doubt.

              I mean we already know that opioids have very effective medical uses in specific clinical circumstances but that doesn’t mean that their regular use should be part of the diets and lifestyles of everybody else. It is not clear to me why pot enthusiasts seem to think that demonstrated beneficial medical uses of cannabinoids etc somehow proves that cannabis consumption should/can be part of a healthy diet and lifestyle for people without a specific medical requirement for it..

              1. Tom we can theorize this and that the fact remains, 110 clinical trials are going on. I found not just that one article, but apparently Israel is known for pot studies, much media reports on it. They have pharma interest, one of the biggest generic companies in the world is out of Israel, but it is still going on and still they are clinical trials
                I take it they are intelligent peoples see the trend and want to be riding it, not swallowed by it.

                What says a pot study for patent is a bad thing? Or that determination should in any manner disqualify it?

                I don’t find peoples looking for this at all..” I doubt if any of it will demonstrate that cannabis consumption (smoking, vaping, edibles, suppositories etc) should be part of a healthy diet and lifestyle which is the conclusion pot enthusiasts seem to be hoping for.”

                They are looking for a reasonable alternative recreation, mainly on weekends, which will not leave them diabiliated for another day after, like some drinking does. Study shows, and I have calculated this myself by stats from Washington state…. anyone spending a reasonable amount on pot is by far and large smokeing a joint per average, on the weekend most probably, per month.
                No one is smoking much more with very few exceptions, as it is just to expensive for ordinary people to do so.

                Pot derivitives as treatments for illness…much appears present to recommend a expectation of positive result. Some are already patented. For cancer specific…I don’t know. Animal study cell study seems to suggest that, but I am not current on human study if there is one.
                It is not that it is healthy it is that recreationally at most common use dose by adults..it is harmless.
                October 17, one more nation, Canada, becomes fully legal recreational pot, and already legal medical pot. Where is research now coming in from…like as not Canada. One helps the other. AS we now import Canadian pot for our research as per this September.

                1. All considered, and I think in the end this is why Canada and others are recommending it…pot or alcohol…abuse potential, health problem potential, addiction potential, driving impairment potential,…..what ever….pot is better. Not harmless, not healthy, but better than what we have now..legally..alcohol.

                  This is it. That is it in a nutshell. And the vast vast majority want to use this for recreation. It is far to expensive to use it daily.

                  1. No offense to you..but your side does not have its ducks in a row.

                    Category one infers no medical use what so ever. But the FDA has already approved pot in some form of treatment, for childhood seizures…but it is still a category one….

                    Something firmly stinks in the kingdom and it is not the kings smelly feet. Your side is no longer making rational sense….
                    All evidence out of any pot legal state shows no problems of any great sort. The most that can be claimed is out of Colorado more deaths by vehicle. But as Colorado is a state that does not require a autopsy upon death by auto, which would require toxilogical result, even that claim may be not sustained. It is totally a optional determination by county decision or individual examiner.

                    And Canada, as a result of their legislation, has patented and approved for use, mechanisms of determination, to be used by police to take care of the question of high on pot driving…instead of crying whining…look at all the deaths…they actually solved the problem before it ever occurred. Similar to a alcohol breathalyzer.

                    This dam is crumbling. Since big pharma has a big big part in its continuance….I can firmly say I do not morn its passing. Pot instead of opioids…..it will literally destroy their quartiles. What a shame but a very real probable given time.

                    1. Sorry Ron but I don’t have a ‘side’ in this.

                      I don’t give a rat’s if cannbis is legalised or not – especially in the US. I don’t live there and never have. What is more, I believe that cannabis is less harmful than tobacco or alcohol. I have given up the latter two and never used cannabis since I reckoned two vices in the shape of booze and baccy should be enough for any reasonable person. However, if countries allow booze and baccy use, it seems to me, it would only be consistent to allow cannabis use. And to regulate and tax it in the same way.

                      What I do object to are the claims that not only is pot use completely harmless but actually has significant health benefits. And that all research studies that find risks are associated with cannabis use should not be taken seriously because any study that finds risks/harm must ipso facto be bad science or some dastardly gubbermint/NWO/Big Pharma fabrication. I fnd that attitude ridiculous. Big Pharma, I am sure, would be just as happy to make millions from patented cannabis medicines as it is from patented opioid medicines or any other patent medicine.

      1. I’m sure that for many years to come, this will be much like the “diet wars” i.e. “My study is bigger than your study.” “Oh yeah? Well check out THIS study! It’s much bigger than your stubby little thing…”

        1. Geoffrey,

          You are right and it is all about the money.

          It really will take decades to sort it out.

          It has to because long-term effects won’t be seen for decades.

  4. I’m unable to smoke tobacco or cannabis. (Darn, right! Hahaha!) The smoke aspect wrecks my sinuses, lungs, and makes me have allergic reactions, even being a secondhand consumer around others who smoke tobacco and cannabis at concerts. I dislike the smell and find it super unattractive and unappealing. As a singer, I don’t feel that smoking anything is particularly good for my health, so I’ve not been drawn to it. I’m actually for legalization, even though I don’t use cannabis myself. I prefer to get my “high” naturally via exercise, meditation, yoga, and the relaxation response in general.

  5. Dr. Greger, I love you, but I really wish you’d get wise to the profound anti-inflammatory properties of Cannabis. This is why it doesn’t cause cancer. I am a cancer survivor who has received the heaviest doses of external chemo, intravenous chemo, external radiation, plus radioactive seed implants a human can possibly get without being killed by the therapy itself. I was told I had weeks to live almost nine years ago. I follow a 95% plant-based diet, and take no commercial medications including ibuprofen, this despite long-term affects of the cancer therapy that ravaged my body and cause considerable pain. I truly believe the only reason I’m still alive is because of cannabis. My pain can sometimes literally be paralyzing, but after a few puffs, I come alive and am able to move again, pain free. Thank god it is legal in my area. btw… did you know the only reason cannabis was demonized to begin with is because in the early 20th century, the big oil guys (Rockefeller & crew) felt hemp oil was a threat to their growing empire… so they lobbied (bribed) congress members to push the anti-marijuana propaganda on the world.

    1. I would not count Dr Greger out for the count yet. We will see shortly what study/studies he selects to provide conclusion.
      I think there will be a body of work that is not definitive, but points to assist. But we will see.

      Certainly for pain management of cancer patients it is truly absurd, it is not allowed yet in many states. It may or may not work, being singular to each patient but why not give them the option?

      1. A drug is now allowed for more handy prescription in the new legislation passed to by congress, to counter the opioid epidemic deaths.
        This drug has only moderate success rate in the group of addicts, but nevertheless, as it provides great profit, is being hailed as the answer.
        Same as methadone was years ago to my dim recollection. The same group providing us opioids, providing us now, this newer drug to combat addiction…..anything wrong with that picture?

        And now their appears a new federal initiative to clamp down on pot.

        1. This references the conflict as mentioned…https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/news/20180910/oxycontin-maker-selling-opioid-addiction-drug-too

          What is not so much being mentioned in media, is the fact hundreds, yes , they probably number in the hundreds now, of various municipalities states local governments and related issues are in the process of suing the manufacturers of opioids. Peebody Mass I just read today, but it occurs every day, another one added to the list.

          Didn’t hear much of that in mass media did you?

          This is by my read larger than the big tobacco lawsuits back in that day. The only thing preventing more states from joining together on this is big pharmas influence. But on a local level such influence does not exist.
          Hell is coming to extract payment….unless federally our elected officials can mange to preempt the lawsuits, which seems unlikely, but never say never.

            1. Ron

              I agree with you about that.

              If pot does save people’s lives then having it prescribed as medicine makes sense.

              Though I would say that most of the voices fighting for it even on this page are NOT the I need it to save my life from Cancer crew.

              Nor is it the I am desperately in pain and don’t want to spend the $7 a bottle for Methadone.

              There is an undercurrent of I want the right to get high whenever I hear conversations in the public the people who argue pro-pot talk about wanting to grow their own and sell it and they do a pot inhale sound.

              I look at it from the Cancer side of the story. My friend has Cancer and is in ridiculous pain from Keto and she had back surgery years ago and it took her 6 years to get off the pain meds and she is afraid of the pain of surgery and is wondering if she could do pot instead of opioids.

              I would like her to be on it to try to shrink the Cancer in these weeks before the surgery. If she crosses the state line and stays with her son for a while she could start using it now or she can get it from her doctor after surgery if it is enough to handle surgical pain.

              1. I kind’ve want to know who made the money from every generation of school kids who already did get high on pot.

                A few grandmothers and small time people got arrested but if Hollywood is presenting the same exact thing I saw at my school as a young person and it hasn’t changed, I would have thought big pharma was selling pot to the school kids while they sold the drugs and the supplements.

                1. The Mexican cartels back in the day were heavily invested into pot. Heroin around the 80’s was dying on the vine with only pockets of long time users still around relegating it to certain parts of certain towns and cities. So pot was largly their thing. Cocaine was a south central American thing. Meth, well anyone could make it.

                  Now with the legalization of pot, the cartels expanded into and focused upon heroin and essentially put pot on the back burner by my read.
                  This coincided with the prescription epidemic which provided a newly formed customer base.

                  1. Ron,

                    I remember looking that up on the internet years ago and they had which countries grew which plants and made which drugs and who distributed them and sold them. I looked it up as part of a National or Global Day of Prayer initiative.

                    I was creeped out on how WNPR covered the fact that drug addicts can overdose and their organs can be healthy enough to donate to people. I think it was WNPR. The thing is the heroin addicts are overdosing and dying and having them have the thought, I could give myself too many drugs and give my organs away is a scary thought. People could start killing them with giving them too much heroin.

                    They were wondering why they started dying so often. The drug cartels doing something different?

                    All I know is that one of my friends whose son went into pot and switched from normal to schizophrenic told me that she started wishing her son would die and that it broke her heart. He ended up being over medicated by the psych people and said it to them, but they took his complaints as his paranoia getting worse and they upped the meds even further and he really did almost die from the meds and they punished him for curling up in a ball and ending up in the hospital, because they always punish mentally ill people who are in psych wards to control them. They have broken his knees by having him kneel on the hard tile for long periods of time and he is heavy and older now and they don’t have a compassionate system. He ended up being right and they had to remove him from all meds and what struck me is that he didn’t go psychotic from having no meds and we asked if they could just give him a little Ativan and they did and he wasn’t that bad. But when it was time to put him on schizophrenia meds, we asked if they could just give enough meds for it to improve him slightly and keep him at the minimum dosage that he would need and they would not do it. They got authoritative with his mother when she asked if they could leave him at a smaller amount. I would be so frustrated if I were a psych patient.

                    Even when I struggled with depression I knew that I didn’t want to go the psych route. If I could have figured out how to change my diet, that would have been something I did, but I grew up on Ring Dings and HoHos and Devil dogs and PopTarts and every candy imaginable and every ice cream flavor. Sugar, preferably chocolate, for breakfast and with lunch and after dinner and for a snack of some sort. Maybe two or three around the holidays.

                2. Or maybe big liquor or the organized crime involved in pornography?

                  I have been watching the me too movement and have the sense that it is going to expand greatly.

                  People want the injustices to be out there on the Internet and on the television.

                  Connie Chung coming out about her doctor made me pause because my grandmother had a wonderful doctor who was arrested when women came forward and not one of them came forward right away or mentioned anything to a receptionist or anyone until someone put a comment on-line and I pause with compassion for women but the concept of having women handle things this way is frightening to me because I do know one man who was falsely accused by an unstable woman and he is someone who ended up in counseling for years about it. He might still be in counseling. I know that I am part of the me too movement and spoke and wasn’t believed but I balance that with the 30-somethibg people who spent years in prison from sales accusation in Witch Hunt and say that women should document things and there should be a type of record other than a police report. Maybe a lawyer report so that there can be an official complaint if the women don’t want to have someone arrested. My friends relative just had their grandfather arrested last year after he molested generations of them, but it was no evidence at all and that is too easy to abuse.

                  1. I see no evidence these are in any way involved…”Or maybe big liquor or the organized crime involved in pornography?”
                    A lot of illegal pot currently is still grown in California and other places on the west coast. Despite legalization I think it finds its way out into the open national market. Mexico still has a hand in it but just not as the big thing which now is heroin. More money to be made with that.

                  2. I am not against the me too movement trying to give voice to something which 1 out of 3 girls and 1 out of 6 boys go through. This movement probably has to come, but males are also abused and females are also abusers. I am not saying that the women are lying. They may genuinely be telling the truth, but I do have examples in my mind of males who have been falsely accused and I guess I can’t handle that there isn’t an official way for women to document something like an incident report where they can choose not to have people arrested, which most people do choose, but which can be a way to reserve the right to have the information come back at a later time, which is when people who go through trauma can finally deal with it. I think people don’t come forward because they don’t want the legal part. My grandmothers doctor was the best doctor I ever saw in doctors visits, but he probably groped young people and lost his practice whether he did or not, but I know one man who had a woman try to destroy him and she accused him of abusing children and he was investigated and found innocent. Then she did it again and he was investigated again and found innocent and then she did it again and he was investigated and found innocent and that time she was threatened legally by the judge to stop falsely accusing him or get arrested herself and she stopped, but this is how life is so complicated.

              2. Some people are very receptive to pot as a pain reliever and some are not. So probably a trial use would be the only way to find out if it worked for her or not. A doc in a medical pot legal state should be able to advise her on how to go about it and the best route of ingestion for her, what works and what does not.

                I would not trust a supplier or medical pot supply shop for that. IN many states they are just essentially ruses to enable people to get pot without a real medical need.
                But one must find a doc who is current on present pain meds not one who is lost ten years or so in the past.

                    1. This is more recent stuff from the NIH on pain management….
                      “Combining cannabinoids with opioids: In a small study of 21 patients with chronic pain, combining vaporized Cannabis with morphine relieved pain better than morphine alone, while combining vaporized Cannabis with oxycodone did not produce significantly greater pain relief. These findings should be tested in further studies.
                      Delta-9-THC taken by mouth: Two small clinical trials of oral delta-9-THC showed that it relieved cancer pain. In the first study, patients had good pain relief as well as relief of nausea and vomiting and better appetite. A second study showed that delta-9-THC could be given in doses that gave pain relief comparable to codeine. An observational study of nabilone also showed that it relieved cancer pain along with nausea, anxiety, and distress when compared with no treatment. Neither dronabinol nor nabilone is approved by the FDA for pain management.
                      Cannabis plant extract medicine: A study of an extract of Cannabis that contained specific amounts of cannabinoids, which was sprayed under the tongue, found it was effective in patients with advanced cancer whose pain was not relieved by strong opioids alone. Patients who received the lower doses of cannabinoid spray showed markedly better pain control and less sleep loss compared with patients who received a placebo. Results showed that, for some patients, control of their cancer-related pain continued without needing higher doses of spray or higher doses of their other pain medicines.

                    2. Progress! However, I have to stop myself from making inappropriate jokes here. I suppose though that a cannabis suppositoriy would be described as an anti-pain in the arse.

                    3. “…..would be described as an anti-pain in the arse.”
                      – – – – –

                      Mr. F’s sparkling wit noted.

                1. She is going to be talking with her doctor about it this week, but she also wants to try to shrink the area if possible between now and the surgery.

                  The Flaxseed muffins worked in the Breast Cancer Study. She is going to try flaxseeds and everything we can find, which doesn’t fight against Keto.

                  I am sooooooooooo happy that these videos are coming out this week! Thank you, Dr. Greger!

    2. “did you know the only reason cannabis was demonized to begin with is because in the early 20th century, the big oil guys (Rockefeller & crew) felt hemp oil was a threat to their growing empire… so they lobbied (bribed) congress members to push the anti-marijuana propaganda on the world.”

      As far as I know, this is simply a false claim by pothead conspiracy theorists which is now presented on a million dodgy websites as an incontrovertible fact . It certainly doesn’t explain why the rest of the world also banned cannabis. My understanding is that most of the world banned rereational cannabis use because of the League of Nations 1925 Agreement on Narcotics Control. It was apparently added to the narcotics to be controlled at the request of Egypt and Turkey which considered cannabis use a major health problem in their countries (and anti-Islamic to boot).

      The US never joined the League of Nations of course and their reasons for banning it (and alcohol for that matter) were apprently more moralistic. however, my understanding is that these moralistic sentiments were encouraged by medi tycoon Randolph Hearst who owned extensive wood pulp interests – so I suppose he might well have considered hemp a threat (lthough why he wouldn’t just have bought his own hemp empire I don’t know).

      1. Nixon documents, some released due to the freedom of information act, showed a pretty clear intention, this information supplemented by statements of his aides, choose drugs to hit at a class of peoples who were his political enemies. Nixon was no great thinker but he was a student of history.

        Europeans had alcohol, Mexicans had pot, Asians had opium, and this and that, depending upon specific areas and tendency. There were many tools to enforce colonialism and the world 1920’s was rife with ethnic and racial hatred, many as tools for colonialism. Demonization of the various drugs was one of the tools to favor one group and disfavor another. Islamic nations have usually non Islamic persons within them…how to advantage Islamic as opposed to not….pass laws that would favor muslims and disfavor those not. California had much anti Asian sentiment and correspondingly were on the fore front of anti opium drug laws.

        Time line considered most of the laws had some corrospondance with the necessity to favor one group over another. With Europeans being most favored in their parts of the world. What is their drug….prohibition was the one exception to that but it was just a momentary consideration.
        Clearly pot back in the day was a Mexican drug. Mexican against gringo was a big big thing in the west. How to advantage one and disadvantage another…. it was a tried and true methodology

        1. Illegality has consequences we do not think of. A other issue but to display it. A acquaintance of mine his relatives were old Spanish in New Mexico. Land grant peoples they held land in common. How to steal the land, none would individually sign that they owned it….well his great great great grandfather was in the pokie for a rape while drunk charge. So the charge went away when he signed to own the land and then it could be bought and sold.

          So use a drug like pot who all the old Spanish at one time tended to do once…..and you made a illegal lever to use, whenever occasion arose to use it.
          Older blacks some parts of the south..same lever. Heroine same lever same groupings with some variance of time and location.
          Nixon translated it to newer blacks(war on drugs) and antiwar.

          It never was the drugs it was the lever.

          1. Think of the power…to be black or Spanish and own a thing that was wanted….a judge would always assume the person arrested was guilty by virtue of race and all that was to be done…was provide the drug to show obviously this person owned it.

            Their types were known to use it. So provide that tool and gringo against Spanish…..gringo for the goal.
            Who is employed in this place or that….jobs we want gringo. Who complains about it and is found to be holding drugs then..Spanish.
            Sounds crass unusual and all…no it was the way of things.
            All the police here locally gringo back in the day. Firefighters refuse..Spanish. Clear lines were present.And how to keep things in place…laws.
            Natives why were their drugs outlawed peyote and such…..no reason…control. No one even heard of them nevertheless their effects.

            1. Natives it gets totally absurd. They even back in the day made illegal a dance, a native American dance, the ghostwalkers dance.
              Sitting Bull I think it was murdered in consequence of that. How do you murder Sitting Bull..make a dance he does illegal, that’s how. The soldiers then justified in the killing..he was doing a illegal thing with others inspiring them to do it…clearly for the better good. Dancing pot whatever..levers all..

              They wanted him dead but usually it was things they wanted and took. If only these things were not true.

              1. Most of the native American dances were made illegal back in the late 1800’s. Gourd dance and sun dance come to mind.

                No pot no opium not much peyote….dancing filled the bill.

  6. A few over thar’ in the Coffee/Milk thread reported on all the “baddies” that are contained in coffee. But I’d rather rather drink black coffee than take a chance with any sort of marijuana.

    Guess I’m a nerd; never wanted to even try it. When I was 15 I took a puff on somebody’s ciggie and knew I could never go that route either. *choke choke, cough cough*

    I suppose if one were on one’s death bed and marijuana was the only pain reliever that worked….well, that’s something else again.

    1. Yes, I took that same puff puff cough cough cough as you did.

      But I told my friends, “The thing that I know about myself is that if I smoke a few cigarettes or drink drinks or smoke pot or snort coke or go gambling or anything else addictive I will end up spending every penny doing it for the rest of my life and probably spend tons of money on counseling and patches and drugs like Welbuteral or Methadone and in and out of rehab and maybe not get off.”

      Waste of time, money, resources, focus and health and people end up bankrupt and commuting suicide or murder after falling into the pleasure traps.

      It took me 30 years to get off soda even after wanting to and 50-something years to get off chocolate and sugar and ice cream and I found out that I can still crave it.

      But I agree with YR, if I was dying, i would want to smoke pot for pain relief and have people laughing like That Seventies Show, but none of the young people could come to the pot circle.

  7. And we could sit around the hospital room and contemplate deep questions like whether smoking a bong with a person who went to the grocery store and bought chicken is what caused my UTI or the visiting nurse not washing her hands properly.

    None of my friends or family members will get the jokes and I will laugh my head off at that.

  8. You are all wimps. Nobody has mentioned cannabis suppositories,

    Cannabis 9and eg CBD oil) suppositories are the wave of the future, it is claimed. Some people think they are particularly relevant for people with prostate and colorectal cancer for example. No lung cancer risk there.

    1. Mr Fumblefingers, suppositories, oh dear!! When I was 18, I had a bad fall from my bike, and broke my jaw in 2 places and smashed a bunch of teeth; after my jaw was wired shut, I asked for pain relief — and had what felt like a huge suppository of basically aspirin! I knew which pain was worse! After that, I learned to dissolve aspirin in water and drink it — I actually began to like that bitter taste!

      1. Yes, the idea seems pretty unpleasant to me too – although additionally using coconut oil as a lubricant has been suggested as a way around this problem.

        I understand that suppositories are more widely used in Europe than they are in the English-speaking world, though, so presumably there are ways and means of using these things that aren’t painful and uncomfortable. However, there’s nothing one can do about ‘undignified’ I suspect..

        1. Laughing.

          Yes.

          After years of caretaking of dignified elderly relatives, there is a mental hurdle placed from both sides, which one has to overcome to give a suppository or wipe the behind of someone you previously never saw with their clothes off. Something tells me that it was easier to be the one giving them than it will be receiving them if I get to that place.

          Pure speculation, but I have pondered it that I have done caretaking, but when I mentally broke down not one person showed up for me and I am walking people through things now and wondering what I did wrong that I am like Type O blood or something. I am like Type O blood is the answer, which actually made sense to me. I need to symbolically find another Type O if I ever need a caretaking transfusion.

        2. “…although additionally using coconut oil as a lubricant has been suggested as a way around this problem.”
          – – – – –

          Now that was a knee-slapper. *_^

  9. On research, the cat is now firmly starting to be seen, getting out of the bag. Prior only a very small sampleing of legal pot for research was available from a university in Mississippi. That pot was also of suspect quality. So that was severely limiting the ability to do good pot research.

    But now for the first time other source, in this specific from Canada, is being allowed. THC and CBD and in pill form is being allowed, so it works around peoples not wanting to smoke the stuff even in study.

    So from here now this can pave the way for research…. https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2018-09-18/feds-approve-importation-of-pot-drug-for-tremor-study
    Canada so near to us and legal more and more cracks in this dam are bound to appear.

    1. From the NIH source listed in the link, of course this was only cell type study, but this is interesting…:”A review of 34 studies of cannabinoids in glioma tumor models found that all but one study showed that cannabinoids can kill cancer cells without harming normal cells.”

  10. I know it doesn’t belong here but I just saw the vid and had to post this:

    Bowden and Sinatra. Oh man…: “the older people in Framingham HS with highest cholesterol lived the longest”. I wanna reach through my screen and …. never mind.

    And people buy into this crap!?! And DR OZ says nothing?????
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zjqQKwArBtc

    1. “….And DR OZ says nothing?????”
      – – – – – –

      Who…. Dr. What-Does-Your-Poop-Look-Like? Dr. Who-Sides-with-Guest-of-That-Day?

      I remember watching that show. Dr. Sinatra, etc. did indeed have their 15 minutes of fame.

      1. Yeah, I really want to like him, but you nailed it. He never ever challenges any guest and always seems to be “surprised” by what they say, whatever it is. It’s horrible. He’s reaching millions as America’s doctor. Worse than him is Stork. For years he was pushing his animal based diet hard, until he finally realized he could capitalize on being “ahead of the curve” and begin pushing a plant based diet. It’s laughable and disgusting how devious people are.

        1. Main stream media what they call the big 3 back in the day, is rapidly devolving. You Tube and others has largly replaced it. This is evidenced by a continual downward ratings spiral particularly in their news area.
          Nitch specialist areas still draw ratings but it appears static.
          There is really not a reason to listen to what they feel it is Ok for us to know, a guy like Dr Oz.

          I still have a TV for regular TV but really it is rarely used, just local weather really. I dropped Dish and find their selection if found elsewhere at low or no cost. I think we are watching the evolution of video rental to Netflix in a slower way…..once you find out you don’t need mainstream and their propaganda you just don’t go back.

          1. Yeah. But ppl are going from OZ to researching on their own and following what supports their bad habits unfortunately. So the Keto and anti-grain movements continue to get and have mass appeal. Sad that ppl are screwing up their organs listening to this stuff.

            1. Sure and politically they end up making way bad decisions on things…
              But reality always comes a knocking. So in the end they, or their friends and relatives find out. About 60 I’d say for most I diet.

              Politics has a way quicker time frame on finding out what works and doesn’t.
              In any event, reality overrules ideology always. Believing away sat fat consumption just does not work. And big meat can produce a thousand studies showing it is fine….but heart disease will then just keep rising.
              Like climate change denial…in the end mother nature cares not if you believe in it or not…it is coming.

              People will be stupid about things. Probably a very consistant finding in humans.

  11. Sorry, I have an unrelated question. Should patients with infections avoid fiber and prebiotics while they’re on a course of antibiotics and possibly bed-ridden. I feel that the foods I gave my father (avocado, hummus, high water fruits and vegetables) while he was being treated for aspiration induced pneumonia (while drinking contrast dye that I gave him to check his gut for constipation,vomiting coffee ground like blood; the initial reason for the emergency admission) may have hastened his passing away. I wish I never helped once he was in hospital care, he might still be alive.

    1. Sorry to read of the loss of your father, Arthur. It’s common to question if during those final days you might have done something that negatively affected him and harboring such thoughts make the loss even harder. Let me assure you that antibiotic treatment does require refraining from fiber-filled whole healthy foods such as you gave your father. Here’s is a reference you can read which details that antibiotic use does not contraindicated the foods you mention, although precautions are recommended with certain foods such as diary and grapefruit:
      It does seem once loved ones are in the hospital we lose control and it’s common to consider the “if onlys” but that only makes us feel worse and usually leads to incorrect presumptions. Better to recognize that vomiting coffee-ground-like blood is severe sign and treatment at that point may just not have been possible. Focus on the important fact that you were there with him and your presence may have helped him die more peacefully rather than some action you might have done or not done to cause his death. I wish you peace as you deal with his loss.

      1. Thank you for your reply. It’s been eating me, this. Dementia is such an insidious disease. The last year he was losing abilities. He would faint for a fraction of a second and if he was upright he would fall. He acquired dystonia in his neck. He couldn’t express himself anymore so I could understand what was wrong with him. He had problems drinking water in the last few months and no thirst. I’m just a layperson, I couldn’t understand it was dysphagia. I should have had a doctor or nurse regularly visit us and clue us in on what to take care of. I should have used the rdns with the home care package. He had type 2 diabetes and edema. The edema made it difficult for him to walk safely. The way the situation turned bad so quickly though caught me completely off guard. One error after another. It’s so important to let the hospital take care of patients and not to interfere, if only so that you don’t carry the burden of being responsible for worsening the health of your loved one while the hospital staff tries to treat them. I wish the hospitals would communicate what I’m saying here to the visitors of patients, so that these accidents don’t occur. Seeking your own way can be very dangerous and lead to tragedy.

        1. Things always turn out the way they’re supposed to, Arthur. Don’t let any guilt ruin the rest of your life. If your father could communicate with you (and he just might…watch for it!), he’d say the same.

          http://www.wiseoldsayings.com/no-regrets-quotes/

          A quote (page 165) from EMMANUEL’S BOOK: a Manual for Living Comfortably in the Cosmos:

          “Let me tell you that when the soul is ready to leave the body you could be walking around as a strong and healthy athlete and the heart would stop. If the soul is not ready to leave, the body will heal itself.”

  12. This is an unrelated question. Just wondering if anyone has any insight on this.

    So there are several doctors/researchers such as: James J DiNicolantonio is a cardiovascular research scientist and promotes salt and a high animal fat diet and Dr Aseem Malhotra is a cardiologist who bashes sugar but promotes high animal fat diets and is also the co founder of “Action on Sugar”. Both of them are cholesterol deniers.

    Given the research and evidence on saturated fat + dietary cholesterol it is to be avoided and it’s well known that a safe ldl level is 50 – 70 mg/dl where atherosclerosis does not progress.

    So, it is very clear that these doctors/researchers have a bias, is there a way to find out if they’re taking money from industry or where the majority of their salary (or income) comes from?

    I’ve checked websites such as:

    https://www.sec.gov/edgar/searchedgar/companysearch.html

    https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/

    but nothing comes up, I can’t find anything. Thanks.

  13. I don’t think personally as far as Malhotra is concerned it is a matter of being sponsored by someone. There is a lot of money to be made in selling books and being a public figure and all that. Did Atkins receive sponsorship from big meat…I do not think so. But he made a very handy living out of his diet books and related items.
    So it is with Malhotra.

    Like Atkins, under study his conclusions, just do not make sense.The biggest part of the not making sense, is probably his claim on the mediteranian diet with coconut oil as part(absurd in the mediteranian) and no pasta (also absurd) and unlimited sat fat, when it really is low sat fat.
    Here is a small review by the British nutrition foundation https://www.nutrition.org.uk/nutritioninthenews/headlines/pioppidiet.html

    But people like to have their dietary choices supported. So they buy books and this and that from places that support the way they eat. So it is possible to
    be very popular by telling peoples what they want to hear.
    And people do loose a lot of weight that way. And since weight loss produces better glycemic numbers and better cholesterol numbers it seems fantastic…for a while.
    Atkins in the end suffer heart disease likely suffered a stroke and died grossly overweight. Malhotra works out a lot so that will produce better results.
    But will the results be long term Atkins, for most who do not…. by my guess yes.

    I often tell the tale of a co worker of mine back in the day…following ATkins…all the young studs took it up. And they had fantastic results looked great to a man….he out jogging full arrest keeled over after sitting on a curb….2 young kids left behind.
    A month later they all were a bit fatter but nothing like that happened again.
    So this is what we risk. Some get away with it all do at first, and some do not.

    Let the science be your guide. Read it, learn it, then decide. Do not let other decide it for you. Sponsorship is more individual studies than diet books. They meat and dairy, make studies that support their views. Then guys like this sell it and make some money.

    1. My friend’s stepfather did Atkins, lost a ton of weight and was so happy and had so much energy and died of a heart attack, but my friend is doing Keto again. She is following Keto logic and doesn’t “get” it. I have spoken about the dangers to her, but she is on a site which is mentoring her and she doesn’t have a sense of danger. She doesn’t have a sense that it could have been the diet, which caused her stepfather to die at just about the moment he reached his ideal weight.

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