Flashback Friday: Lead Contamination in Hot Sauces

Flashback Friday: Lead Contamination in Hot Sauces
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Given the lead contamination found in candies containing chili imported from Mexico, 25 hot sauces were tested for heavy metals.

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

Lead toxicity remains “a prevalent and…major [public health] concern,” especially for babies. And, “[o]ne of the [most] important sources of lead exposure for the fetus and infant is maternal blood.” “Lead in [pregnant and nursing women’s bloodstreams] readily crosses the placenta and [into breast milk].” Where does her lead come from? Most may originate from her own skeleton, where lead from past exposures builds up. Past exposures to what? Mostly through “food…, [then] dust…, water…, and air.”

One of the more atypical sources of childhood lead poisoning in the United States are “lead-tainted candies,” including, ironically, brands with names like “Toxic Waste” (though the FDA recall “only [evidently] applie[d] to the Nuclear Sludge [variety,] not [the] other ‘Toxic Waste’…candies”). Many of the tainted candies were imported from Mexico, particularly candies “containing chili [peppers] and salt as major ingredients.” Maybe the lead was from mined salt, or grinding stones, or lead-containing pesticides; they’re not sure.

But, wait a second. There’s something else in grocery stores containing imported chilis and salt as major ingredients: hot sauce.

“In the last decade, the…FDA…has issued several warnings and recalls for food products that exceed the standards for lead. Products containing chili peppers and salt were often suspected as sources of lead contamination such as [the candies]. However, products such as hot sauces that contain similar ingredients have not been the focus of evaluations”—until now.

They tested 25 different hot sauces, and about 9 out of 10 had detectable lead. But only four brands exceeded the FDA’s action level of 0.1 parts per million. But, that’s the candy standard; so, technically none of the hot sauces can be recalled off U.S. shelves. “Although…candy and hot sauce contain common ingredients,” there’s simply no hot sauce standard.

The most contaminated hot sauces had about a microgram of lead per teaspoon, which may be more than young kids should be getting in their daily diet. But how many six-year-olds are consuming hot sauce by the spoonful? “Although hot sauce would not intuitively be counted amongst food products highly consumed by children, ethnic and cultural practices must be considered. Chili peppers and salt are commonly used in [a variety of ways in everyday cuisine.]” And so, they want to see the same stringent candy standard applied to hot sauce. Or, at least have some limit. 

“Without enforceable standards for hot sauces,” what motivation do manufacturers have to even look into the problem? For example, it may be the soil. The dirt is just so contaminated by lead that just washing off any residue on peppers after picking may cut lead levels four-fold in the final product. But why bother taking the extra step, if no one’s checking?

Any other imports we should be concerned about? I’ve talked about the heavy metal contamination of herbal supplements—but not this kind of herbal supplement. “Several hundred people suffered lead poisoning presumably resulting from the desire of drug dealers to maximize profits.” Lead is heavy, about 50 times heavier than oregano, so “is particularly useful for driving up profits.” And, it wasn’t subtle; you could see the little lead particles. Why an epidemic of lead poisoning among young pierced students? Because dealers could make an extra $1,500 per kilo.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Ben Grey via Flickr. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Tyler McReynolds, Teetotalin LLC

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

Lead toxicity remains “a prevalent and…major [public health] concern,” especially for babies. And, “[o]ne of the [most] important sources of lead exposure for the fetus and infant is maternal blood.” “Lead in [pregnant and nursing women’s bloodstreams] readily crosses the placenta and [into breast milk].” Where does her lead come from? Most may originate from her own skeleton, where lead from past exposures builds up. Past exposures to what? Mostly through “food…, [then] dust…, water…, and air.”

One of the more atypical sources of childhood lead poisoning in the United States are “lead-tainted candies,” including, ironically, brands with names like “Toxic Waste” (though the FDA recall “only [evidently] applie[d] to the Nuclear Sludge [variety,] not [the] other ‘Toxic Waste’…candies”). Many of the tainted candies were imported from Mexico, particularly candies “containing chili [peppers] and salt as major ingredients.” Maybe the lead was from mined salt, or grinding stones, or lead-containing pesticides; they’re not sure.

But, wait a second. There’s something else in grocery stores containing imported chilis and salt as major ingredients: hot sauce.

“In the last decade, the…FDA…has issued several warnings and recalls for food products that exceed the standards for lead. Products containing chili peppers and salt were often suspected as sources of lead contamination such as [the candies]. However, products such as hot sauces that contain similar ingredients have not been the focus of evaluations”—until now.

They tested 25 different hot sauces, and about 9 out of 10 had detectable lead. But only four brands exceeded the FDA’s action level of 0.1 parts per million. But, that’s the candy standard; so, technically none of the hot sauces can be recalled off U.S. shelves. “Although…candy and hot sauce contain common ingredients,” there’s simply no hot sauce standard.

The most contaminated hot sauces had about a microgram of lead per teaspoon, which may be more than young kids should be getting in their daily diet. But how many six-year-olds are consuming hot sauce by the spoonful? “Although hot sauce would not intuitively be counted amongst food products highly consumed by children, ethnic and cultural practices must be considered. Chili peppers and salt are commonly used in [a variety of ways in everyday cuisine.]” And so, they want to see the same stringent candy standard applied to hot sauce. Or, at least have some limit. 

“Without enforceable standards for hot sauces,” what motivation do manufacturers have to even look into the problem? For example, it may be the soil. The dirt is just so contaminated by lead that just washing off any residue on peppers after picking may cut lead levels four-fold in the final product. But why bother taking the extra step, if no one’s checking?

Any other imports we should be concerned about? I’ve talked about the heavy metal contamination of herbal supplements—but not this kind of herbal supplement. “Several hundred people suffered lead poisoning presumably resulting from the desire of drug dealers to maximize profits.” Lead is heavy, about 50 times heavier than oregano, so “is particularly useful for driving up profits.” And, it wasn’t subtle; you could see the little lead particles. Why an epidemic of lead poisoning among young pierced students? Because dealers could make an extra $1,500 per kilo.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Ben Grey via Flickr. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Tyler McReynolds, Teetotalin LLC

121 responses to “Flashback Friday: Lead Contamination in Hot Sauces

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    1. MAH,
      I would think there is some oversight of our foods, especially in the recognized name brands. I use turmeric a bit at a time knowing that consuming too much may come with an excess amount of oxalic acid. This may cause kidney stones, perhaps a bigger concern than lead content. If you eat WFPB, this helps shuttle heavy metals out of your body.

      1. Dan,

        Stopped using the powder and went to fresh a while back. Haven’t looked back.

        Feels . . . cleaner . . .

        Initially checked out all five different local grocery stores (different chains) – no luck. Could only find it in ethnic grocery stores (we have three). Then a few failed tentative steps in one grocery store – $8 for a little bunch in a box. Which stopped. Then another store went whole hog and has it out for sale like they have ginger root and such – where you can pick and choose. Reasonably priced.

        So – keep an eye out for fresh – and ask the manager and the produce manager to stock it – if you cannot find it now, it may pop up later.

        I feel a lot better with the fresh – ya know what you are getting.

        WFPB. Not just mystery powder.

        But I am not big on onion powder or garlic powder or peanut powder or paprika or vegetable pills or multivitamin pills or supplements or juicing or . . .

        Why eat mystery powder IF you can get the whole food?

        Bon appétit –

        Vivamus

        1. V,
          Per your comment, a few videos ago, about USPS maybe not being dependable with absentee ballots, I find USPS to be dependable in my area, which really helps since I live 30 minutes from town. I save time by using my dependable mailbox. I also have eagle eyed neighbors who keep a watch on things. We know the carriers and small talk now and then.

            1. V,
              I think growing turmeric is fairly simple. I remember watching an Australian wonder gardener demonstrate it. I just might try it, along with some garlic and onions.

        2. fresh would be best bc as I understand it the lead in turmeric powder is from the dye they use to color it the bright orange/yellow. No dye in fresh turmeric means no lead!

          1. rungirl,

            There was a scandal years ago – 1990’s? – about pigment adulteration in paprika. I think that lead was implicated, but memory fails. What does not fail is the determination to avoid paprika since that time – I just cook with fresh red peppers.

            No loss – all gain.

            Your note in regards to tumeric sounds similar – bringing back the paprika memory – could you provide any documentation?

            Powdered food vs. whole food? Jetsons aside, the choice remains clear – for all sorts of good reasons.

            Vivamus

        1. I think that it is thought that lead will do more damage if it is in organs/soft tissue and blood than it will in bones/teeth. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of evidence on this though.

          1. It is far more protective for lead to be sequestered in bone than circulating in blood and soft tissues. The worst of toxicology of chronic low dose toxic effects of lead is that exposed organisms typically take two to four times the learning experiences to realize consequences of their actions. Think how this makes us dumber, and harms society as a whole, contributes to higher prison rates, and limits individual advancement in life. Our most precious soft tissue is our brain, lead harms that tissue, as well as a lot of other tissues and physiologic pathways, reducing our abilities toward a better life. However, our body storing lead in bone, is still a big health risk as we age, or get ill, or get pregnant, since our body seeks additional calcium during times of stress. The lead stored in our bones comes out again at these most vulnerable times, to circulate again, causing even more adverse health effects including more loss of intelligence. Many diseases are made worse by this lead exposure. Your brain is precious, what else do you really have? When you lose a bit of brain ability, you may not even be able to notice well, but others might. Human bones most often have 100 to 1000 times the lead in them now than prehistoric bones did, we all have been harmed by lead passing into our bodies, we are all less than we could have been without this pollution. IMHO

            1. Ray,

              There is little question of the issues of lead contamination and it’s neurological impact. Clearly avoidance of exposure is one of the keys. Unfortunately, there are multiple routes of exposure including lifestyle inputs including some activities, food and herbal products to name a few.

              An obvious consideration should be the intake of blocking minerals in food, with a focus on calcium being amongst some of the most active along with proper cleaning methods to address exposures. For a good review of this interaction between calcium and lead see: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-50654-7 . Consider that a WFPB diet will also have impact due to it’s effect on the transit times, absorption and high mineral content.

              In one of your posts this morning you allude to firing lead-based bullets and yes ranges and other shooting sports demand that to minimize exposures you take precautions from proper cleaning of all items to proper washing of both clothing, shoes, other associated products and our body. And not to make this too difficult, however consider the current NIOSH site and you can see that just using soap and water is not adequate. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/lead/safe.html. You would need to use specialty wipes to really remove lead or consider specific cleaners. (https://www.jondon.com/4gl-fiberlock-lead-safe-solution.html) Couple this with not eating until all of the products and your body are properly cleaned and/or using a mineral intake pre and post exposure makes sense.

              Testing: The blood testing for lead is only useful for a VERY short period of time (month/weeks) and does not reflect body burden, only current exposures. For a good review article see the CDC’s paper; https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5608a1.htm and recognize the inherent limitations of these testing methods.

              To do a reflective body burden test requires both a pre and post chelation urinary collection. Please note I did say reflective as we have no accurate means of lead body accumulation assays other than this method, in living individuals. If you consider the average person’s exposures, it’s all about cumulative issues not typically an acute exposure, with obvious exceptions hence the above test may be very useful for many of us.

              XRF testing can indeed would be appropriate for inanimate objects and is an excellent means of assessments for toys, soil air in filters and other surface-based approaches. It should never be used on humans as it is a radiation producing device. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jf803285h. It’s not intended for DYI’ers and is both expensive and needs calibration for accurate use.

              Dr. Alan Kadish moderator for Dr. Greger http://www.Centerofhealth.com

              1. Allan, does the XRF used in human bone lead assessment produce more radiation than that used in X-rays? It is very convenient for the politic in the medical industry to cling to using blood lead testing as their only widespread diagnostic evidence for societal harm. As blood lead testing results drop quickly, they can say: “See, your lead exposure is not so bad, it is quickly going away, no worries.” But, the accumulative nature of body burden is masked by authorities not educating the public adequately about body burden accumulative harms. If XRF radiation gain is less problematic than that resulting from a typical bone x-ray, the societal educational gain by far better informing epidemiology and public awareness may be something desperately needed toward overcoming the politic of ‘see no evil, hear no evil’? But perhaps the resultant radiation risks would not be worth the widespread demonstrative investigation that could actually educate society about many of the hidden harmful effects of lead pollution. Personally, I feel that it just might be worth the one time XRF radiation exposure in order that societal gain in education could be so great. But, I doubt that the politic would allow such investigation to be done on a widespread basis anyway, it would go ‘too far’ in pointing out just how irresponsible the public health politic has been through time.

  1. A long time ago I saw something on the vacu-vision about standard medical treatment for gunshot wounds (back then). According to the report when a bullet strikes bone it often breaks up into small fragments – so many that surgeons just leave them inside the body of the victim for life. Does anyone know if that’s true? And since I know nothing about bullets, does anyone know if they are still made out of lead? (Big Jake said they were.)

    So… would this be a problem from a lead poisoning point of view? I reviewed the video Best Foods for Lead Poisoning part 1 (see Notes above) and saw that a young child ate a lead weight from a curtain and died from lead concentrations about 280µg/dl. Wouldn’t you OD on Pb from a bullet left inside your body?

          1. Dr. Cobalt,

            I have been tempted to use similar phrasing within the past week – towards someone else.

            Stopped myself from posting just in time. It was clear in my mind – traveled down though the arms to the wrists – but the fingers wouldn’t hit the enter button. Call it a team effort – we’re a democracy, here. Thank you, fingers – I owe ya one.

            Don’t feel too bad. No irrevocable harm is done. It’s a learning opportunity.

            Don’t be gone long.

            Vivamus

    1. dr. cobalt,

      Yes, modern bullets do contain lead because lead is plentiful and cheap. They often have a copper jacket around the lead because the newer weapons fire at such a higher speed that the bullets could melt during firing if they were just lead.

      Yes, people can die from lead poisoning after a gunshot wound but it is rare.

      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21079537/

      1. Yes, but it is not rare for lead from bullets getting into our foods, especially if we eat game meat that has been shot. Lead is very soft, and lead powder rubs off easily as the bullet passes through the meat. When we eat this meat, we get repeated doses of lead. When we go fishing, we open our tackle boxes to rig our fishing lines, and that fine black powder coating the inside surfaces of the tackle box is pure lead powder. This transfers to our hands, our lunch sandwiches, the sandwiches we hand our grandchildren we are teaching how to fish. It contaminates the cooler ice we touch, the fish mucus we touch, the boat bottom water we stand in, and the frying pan at home that we place the fish in to cook. When we shoot guns often, we inhale the fine lead powder that exits the barrel repeatedly. A far higher percentage of lead entering the lungs, is taken up by the body than when lead enters via the digestive system. Lead is accumulative, it builds up in the body, and it always degrades our abilities. Go to a hardware store, buy a cheap lead test kit with which to swab the interior of your tackle box, and begin to see how this pollution has been degrading your abilities, gradually adding to the decline of abilities as you get older. Read the research, or find someone who can read it skillfully and can explain each paper to you. save the rest of your brain function, greatly limit your further exposure to lead pollution. IMHO

        1. And, once your hand gets contaminated by the fine pure lead powder, it does not readily wash off. It used to be thought that lead did not pass through skin (because lead loses its affinity for the red blood cells, for some reason not fully understood) and does pass through skin, yet the blood lead test does not register the uptake. Even washing with soap often only speeds the passage through the skin. Since 1994, research has shown this problem, but few people are aware of this route of exposure.

            1. The following citations might suggest that perhaps lead may pass through the skin under such practices as bathing. Other research might beg to differ…. but we should have authorities cite the research that they think supports their position…given the research below.

              Notes: re: skin exposure potential uptake of Pb without much indication from subsequently elevated blood lead testing.
              Lilley SG, Florence TM and Stauber JL. The use of sweat to monitor lead absorption through the skin. Sci Total Environ. 1988;76(2-3):267-78.
              Stauber JL, Florence TM, Gulson BL and Dale LS. Percutaneous absorption of inorganic lead compounds. Sci Total Environ. 1994;145(1-2):55-70.
              Sun CC, Wong TT, Hwang YH, Chao KY, Jee SH and Wang JD. Percutaneous absorption of inorganic lead compounds. AIHA J. 2002;63(5):641-6.
              Stauber JL, Florence TM, Gulson BL and Dale LS. Percutaneous absorption of inorganic lead compounds. Sci Total Environ. 1994;145(1-2):55-70.
              Marzulli FN, Watlington PM and Maibach HI. Exploratory skin penetration findings relating to the use of lead acetate hair dyes. Hair as a test tissue for monitoring uptake of systemic lead. Curr. Probl. Dermatol. 1978;7:196-204
              Also:
              Skin Absorption of Inorganic Lead (PbO) and the Effect of Skin Cleansers.
              Journal of Occupational & Environmental Medicine. 48(7):692-699, July 2006

              Filon, Francesca Larese MD; Boenigar, Mark MD; Maina, Giovanni MD, Adami Gianpiero PhD; spinelli, Paolo MD; Damian, Adriano MD
              Abstract:
              Objective: The aim of this study was to investigate the percutaneous penetration of lead oxide (PbO) powder and the effects of rapid skin decontamination with two different detergents.
              Methods: Franz cells were used to study in vitro PbO skin penetration through human skin during a 24-hour period. The tests were performed without or with decontamination using either Ivory Liquid soap od a new experimental cleanser 30 minutes after the start of exposure.
              Results: we confirm that PbO can pass through the skin with a median penetration of 2.9 ng/cm2 (25-75th percentiles 0.35-6). The cleaning procedure using Ivory Liquid soap significantly increased skin penetration with a median value of 23.6 ng/cm2 (25-75th percentiles) 12-47.1; Mann-Whitney U test, P= 0.0002). whereas the new experimental cleanser only marginally increased penetration (7.1 ng/cm2).
              Conclusions: Our results indicate that it is necessary to prevent skin contamination from occurring because a short contact can increase skin content and penetration even if quickly followed by washing. This study demonstrated that PbO powder can pass through the skin and that skin decontamination done after 30 minutes of exposure did not decrease skin absorption occurring over 24 hours and stresses the need to prevent skin contamination when using toxic substances.
              © 2006 The American College of Occupational and Environmental Medicine

              Note: the citation (Stauber et al. ’94) apparently found that, contrary to common thought about percutaneous uptake of Pb, lead can often pass through skin. Apparently this route also causes the Pb to have greatly reduced affinity for red blood cells. This then results in non-detect tendency in blood lead testing. Could this loss of affinity for the red blood cells be the reason that so many other toxicology references claim that the skin route of Pb exposure is NOT very much of a factor? Has this belief caused poor study designs to mask the actual risk from skin absorption of Pb? Regulatory agencies were probably happy to not have to worry much about this potential route of Pb uptake, and so perpetuate the apparent misconception…. which other researchers then assume to be correct when they go to design their new studies… and potentially reach erroneous conclusions about the efficacy of the skin uptake route. Any failure to see much of an elevation in blood lead testing would just affirm their underlying assumption.. ..that just might be erroneous. You often don’t find what you don’t look for.
              If this assumption pervades lead research and lead regulatory paradigms, there should be some more pointedly investigative clarification of the validity of the work previously done in the above research citations. IMHO
              It appears that this could question a lot of assumptions in best management practices that lead exposure through skin is not very significant… including soil lead handling during urban gardening and subsequent hand cleansing protocols needed to prevent hidden uptake that might not even register upon well done blood lead testing that is supposedly the definitive assessment.

  2. With the ‘logic’ presented WHY IS HE NOT LOOKING AT ALL CHILI PEPPERS SOLD instead of just the ones made into hot sauce then trying to include ‘herbal supplements in the same situation? Seems both extremely short sighted and then reaching in scope.

      1. The question is logical, even if veiled in an unneeded critisism. I think he meant to ask:
        What then is giving the high levels of lead in hot sauce, if not chillis? …the tomato or vinegar?

        1. Healthline says that they believe the lead likely gets in during the sauce production process.

          Doesn’t sound like they know the answer to that yet.

          1. Lead dissolves up to a pH of about 8. If food is processed in a container, or passes through pipes that contain lead, the metals gradually dissolve into the food. The more acidic the food is, the faster the lead dissolves into the food. Food processors that do not know of this danger, especially for the specialty food items produced without much regulation or from foreign sources are at risk of not knowing how best to keep metals from entering the food during processing. Acidic foods (eg. lemonade, vinegar etc.), are very likely to need careful attention to this danger of contamination.

        2. JB

          Yes, you are right. However, RB’s constant carping criticisms and ‘shouting’ (writing stuff in all caps) often seem unreasonable. Also, how much ground can we sensibly expect a 5-minute video to cover if it is going to analyse the relevant evidence?

          These sauces often contain high amounts of added sugars, salts and other additives which, along with the manufacturing and bottling/packaging processes, are potential sources of lead contamination. Which leads us to the inevitable question

          What are sauces’ sources of lead contamination?

    1. My guess is that Dr. Greger is limited by the studies that have been published. Perhaps the community here can chip in to equip a laboratory to test all the things that ahve not been tested. (Oy vay)

    2. Corrections are welcome – this is from memory.

      Reality bites,

      We checked into lead contamination in plants when looking into urban organic gardening.

      Urban garden soils – many suburban garden soils – and soils beneath housing built on prior golf courses and orchards – typically have lead burdens from prior ethyl lead gasoline exhaust deposition and prior house painting prior to – is it 1977 or so?. Plus pesticide usage. The only question is not if – how much lead is in the soil?

      Once in the soil – the lead does not leach out.

      Lead Arsenate and similar compounds saw widespread use on orchards and golf courses – with the guidance and encouragement of the USDA – for many, many years. I understand that it or similar compounds are still used for some crops under permit. Cotton?

      The lead doesn’t go away. Nor the arsenic.

      Plants grown in these soils typically absorb something like one one-thousandth of the lead concentration of the soil in which they are grown. Depending on lots of factors – type of plant, soil acidity, portion of plant, and such.

      So the maximum concern is actually soil contamination – tracking mud into the house, dirt on clothing, eating food fresh from in the garden while you still have dirt on your hands, the need for washing food before eating, that sort of thing. Rather than plant absorption, which is only at around a thousandth of the dosage of yummy straight dirt.

      And it is why young children – think dirt -> hand -> mouth – may not be permitted to play in an urban garden – yet it may be OK for the child to eat the washed produce from that garden.

      Oh – roots absorb the most lead – highest absorption at the root surface tissue. Followed by leaves and stems. Fruit – as in “seeded organs” – tomatoes, beans, peppers, etc. – the least. (Plants are pretty smart cookies).

      Ans acidic soil leads to higher plant absorption of heavy metals than alkaline soil.

      Higher soil organic matter is also helpful.

      Dr. Greger alludes to the need to wash peppers before processing into hot sauce. I suspect that bypassing that step is a large part of what is causing the hot sauce contamination. Can’t prove it – but it makes sense to me.

      And this may be why peppers tested in labs – which are likely carefully washed prior to testing – test OK.

      This dirt contamination effect particularly applies to any root vegetables and herbs / spices – urban gardeners are warned to peel any root vegetable grown in higher lead soil prior to eating, as the soil clings to nooks and crannies on the plant skin and cannot be completely washed off – plus the superficial root tissue is the site of maximum lead absorption – it must be peeled. This applies to carrots, potatoes, and anything else grown in lead affected soil.

      I never figured out how to peel a little round radish. Oh, well.

      Note that onions and garlic and tumeric and ginger are all grown in the soil.

      These are some of the reasons that I avoid many sorts of plant powders: paprika, onion powder (root), garlic powder (root), tumeric powder (root), ginger powder (root), etc., etc. I doubt that any of these roots are peeled prior to being processed into powder. To what degree they may be washed, I do not know.

      But you can know if you buy these in the store – as whole foods – and do it all yourself.

      Reality bites.

      Bon appétit –

      Vivamus

      1. V,
        I am guilty of not washing produce and eating skins. I’m hoping that by eating lots of plant fiber that toxins are trapped and not absorbed so much. Blood tests have not shown toxins.

          1. MK,
            I will wash more produce now. I might still keep the notion that not eating the produce in the first place is more toxic than not washing the produce before it is eaten. Of course, on can do both and score two points.

      2. Yes, and many gardening chemicals have added chelator chemical added to keep the product from degrading during processing or storage. These chelators readily pick up metals and can then transport them better to other areas that the metals would not easily get to. If, an herbicide containing these chemicals gets sprayed on garden soil containing lead from legacy pollution used when the previous apple orchard occupied that land, lead can get more easily carried into other plant tissues than in just the roots or the skin of the roots. IMHO

  3. What is the nature of our food regulation’s limits? Allow choice and profit over safety.

    Can we have every food and supplier tested BEFORE we are allowed to help them profit from our purchases?

    Can there be a cue of suppliers getting in line to be tested as part of the process in achieving the much treasured and often corruptly administered real estate on our grocers shelves?

    If the first response, is ‘No, who’s going to pay for it? Its too complicated..” , then consider in just one of many facets of our daily lives, that every person who drives a car must go through a test, training, certification, and renewals based on merit. (Not that I find the DMV peasant, but it is in place)
    Later, we have an army of armed “soldiers” who’s job it is to wait in a car eating donuts, with the express purpose of making sure one obeys the stated laws, like driving 38mph in a 35mph zone, while having a profiled and “questionable” station in life, etc…

    And then additionally, there are the insurance companies by the thousands ready to ensure middleman profits and garnering the collegial agreement of the authorities in doing so.

    I realize we all know this, but as a point of perspective in comparison, the idea is that just driving a car sets thousand of people, technology, laws, manufacturers, construction companies, insurance companies, prisons, car companies, aftermarket parts, global logistics, oil companies, infrastructural committees, and bobblehead startups.

    If we can have every conversation recorded, every movement filmed, every situation in civil life designated under this or that law after hundreds of legal reviews, enforced, and litigated with lawyers and justices, and assistants, in buildings expensively constructed for this purpose, then I submit, we can test the food we get before our children eat it.

    If it is too burdensome, then we can do with less choice until and as the items get cleared, under scrutiny, and progressive regulation.

    We do not need to have anything harmful in our food as an “externality” of the byproduct of the presumed importance of varied choice, over the true importance of health.

    Priorities here are screwed, and will continue to be so until we demand otherwise. Until then we should be relegated to randomly finding a website to get the information we need in order to protect ourselves from ourselves, and pretend to have a moral, and civilly superior stance on the planet.

    (I realize we have dealt with many food-borne illnesses through our institutional infrastructure, but so too we have accomplished this by washing our foods in bleach, or with injection of harmful chemicals and antibiotics)

      1. Viv, you see that’s the kind of condescension I’m talking about. What I’m doing to fix things is building a coalition of progressive people and trying to further a message of reality, such that we may try to leave hope (at least) for our children. There are countless verified reports showing criminal upward wealth transfer, environmental destruction, technology overstepping, unsustainable financial wizardry to suit the oligarchs, and the use of harmful yet profitable chemical influences (yes in your beloved “medicine”), all to the basic effect of collectively and increasingly destroying humanity even as we live longer to experience it.

        There’s a few windmills for ya ‘mon’. But just relax in your easychair and change the channel muttering: “Some people.” (probably in Latin)

        You are not “worried” about me. You are gaslighting and trying to make it appear that I should be worried about because of my ideas, since they are not baked into status quo.

        Ok to be fair, which is fundamentally my aim, I realize that this vehicle for exchange is less likely to garner any real change, and should be normally relegated to its intended discussions about nutrition, and I am usually there. But our nutrition is inextricably connected with our country’s politics and the global paradigm of health and human interest, so yes, I will opine here, as you might about frolicking with your girlfriend in the northeast hills of Vermont, or giving medical advice, which may be illegal. If you aren’t a doctor, let us know please, as you have in fact presented yourself as one.

        You know, old bachelors (uncle Viv) are fun to hangout with, but cant hold wives because they’ve always been self absorbed. (I’m just guessing here of course).

        Viv, even if you don’t see it, there is much- and I mean much, to complain about. Not whining, but regarding truly broken systemic issues. Since you’ve said in so much, not overtly, that you are a doctor, I would think you might understand a bit about systemic issues, and why they must be treated by doing something different than what is occurring at the moment..

        We got em Viv, these systemic issues, and its getting worse. Even as yes, there are still nice coastlines to visit and a delicious bottle of red to enjoy from the perspectives of some few.

        My scope of interest and therefore, my expression in dialogue covers the reality that there is more than just the good stuff out here, and if more of us weren’t shamed as “glass half full” types, things would be better for those of us who are less fortunate than you and I my friend.

        Why? Because we would talk about this important stuff rather than giving advice or opinion. We would get to truth first, then solutions, together.

        What am I doing?

        ALL: Please look into Ranked Choice Voting.

        https://www.rankedchoicevoting.org/
        https://www.fairvote.org/rcv#where_is_ranked_choice_voting_used

        There. Now perhaps hundreds of people, maybe thousands eventually, whom didn’t know how they could someday vote their conscience without being vote shamed into a binary system of donor class representatives will know that “spoiled votes” are not what we should fear.

        If these things don’t truly interest you, than it is I who will worry about you.

        And I actually mean that… There is far too much tranquilized sleeping going on here…. yikes!

        1. “you see that’s the kind of condescension I’m talking about. ”

          “You are not “worried” about me.”

          Allow me to rephrase:

          I thought I was worried about you. Concerned about what seemed to my mind to be unrelenting negativity. A darkness. A burden. A heaviness.

          But you seem to know my inner thoughts much better than I do. So – in your mind – I must be wrong and you must be right.

          No problem. Happens all the time.

          It occurs to me that – it just might be that – you and I perceive the world differently.

          With different breadths and different depths.

          Resulting in different chains of assumptions.

          Ans that might not be an entirely bad thing.

          But that’s probably wrong, as well.

          ———————————————————

          “ALL: Please look into Ranked Choice Voting.

          https://www.rankedchoicevoting.org/
          https://www.fairvote.org/rcv#where_is_ranked_choice_voting_used

          Done.

          Looks good to me.

          ———————————————————

          “And I actually mean that… There is far too much tranquilized sleeping going on here…. yikes!”

          Assumption, assumptions, assumptions.

          No drugs.

          I sleep well. I look forward to the waking.

          jazzBass.

          All the best – (I think I mean that – but you may know better) –

          Vivamus

          —————————-

          The Waking
          Theodore Roethke
          1953
          https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43333/the-waking-56d2220f25315

    1. JB,
      You’ve asked several questions. A simple answer might be to. “follow the money.” Going from memory, there was a food bill headed by McGovern & Dole that promoted fruit and vegetable consumption. It probably would have saved millions of lives and trillions in spending. The bill got hacked by meat and dairy. Decades later the push is stronger for health promoting food. I liken the struggle to the slow but sure progress in the women’s movement to become first class citizens. Susan B. Anthony faught hard for 50 years and saw very little progress. Today her image is on a silver dollar and most people know of her; women vote, are CEO’s and are presidential candidates. A saying within the women’s movement is, “No one gave us anything; we took it.” There is progress. Some cancers are in retreat and more people are educating themselves.

      1. Yes, there has been progress, but….following the money shows that politics often inhibits science in food safety.
        It is all driven by funding getting reduced, for agencies that make too many waves by bringing up evidence that could trigger lobbies cutting off election funding to the regulators of the regulators (legislators). The politicians step on the agency science, by letting the agencies know that funding for other good work they do, if they persist in investigation of toxic contamination that reflects badly on the industrial players, will also get cut further. Agencies have a lot of good people that came out of college looking to do jobs to help with environmental protection, but find lots of censoring by the funding restrictions, and cannot do due diligence because of it. Yes, it IS a conspiracy, but NOT by those that recognize it happening, by the industry pressure to create ‘profit’ before societal wellbeing. IMHO.

      2. Dan, have a look into Susan B Anthony’s racism.

        We could exchange quotes all day.

        “Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.”

        “In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

        But my favorite:
        “This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism.”

        You wrote:
        “women vote, are CEO’s and are presidential candidates. A saying within the women’s movement is, “No one gave us anything; we took it.” There is progress. Some cancers are in retreat and more people are educating themselves.”

        This enough for you? Are you aware how so many other countries are light years ahead of these civil platitudes?

        How did we get these cancers? More education? (please look into the quality of education vs. the past)

  4. Okay, if it is the salts that are tainted with lead or the pesticides that are tainted with lead, it brings two more categories.

    Salt from Mexico and non-organic fruits and vegetables from Mexico.

    I will be honest, Mexico and China are two countries where even if they say, “organic” I put things back.

    Even the organic produce.

    I don’t trust them for that type of thing.

    Does the lead wash off with the pesticide?

    Does RoundUp have lead in it?

    Yes, Reality bites, I can look these things up myself and you could have looked up the chili peppers.

    And the answer is that there were glyphosate herbicides containing lead.

    https://www.gmwatch.org/en/news/archive/2018/18061-glyphosate-herbicides-contain-toxic-heavy-metals-including-arsenic#:~:text=Glyphosate%20herbicides%20contain%20toxic%20heavy%20metals%2C%20including%20arsenic,-Print&text=Glyphosate%2Dbased%20herbicides%20contain%20toxic,a%20new%20study%20has%20found.&text=The%20toxic%20heavy%20metals%20were,those%20permitted%20in%20drinking%20water.

    I don’t see whether you can wash the heavy metals off with the pesticide but I did find that some vegetables accumulate lead more than others so that might be a factor in whether to eat organic produce or not.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4808952/

    I don’t know if the dirty dozen took heavy metal accumulation into account.

  5. I found the article here, which seems to indicate that the products tested were all from Mexico and lists the brands with the worst performance.
    https://grist.org/food/lead-in-hot-sauce/

    The article mentioned Mexican candy, but I didn’t infer that the sauces were from Mexico as well. I can’t tell where Frank’s Red Hot sauce is made, something I, and others likely, often use in the U.S.

    1. Yes, and it is non-invasive, like an x-ray. It is called XRF bone lead scan. It would become very informative across large populations, to have widespread XRF testing done. This would clarify greatly how we have picked up lead body burden through our lives, compared to other people in the population. Usually, the only lead test done diagnostically is blood lead testing, which can be very misleading because it is only indicative of lead exposure that is very recent (several months). A low blood test result for lead would not show past exposure increases that have increased the total body burden and stored in bone… to later come out and recirculate to again damage soft tissues as you age or fight illness, or get pregnant. IMHO

  6. Hi everyone! Please note: Longtime users of NutritionFacts.org will be familiar with this change: We are returning to Disqus for the comments on the website. This will allow us to have more features that many of you have been requesting. You will be able to log in via Disqus.com or by using your social media, or you can create and reply to comments without logging in at all. It also means that we will be saying goodbye to the user logins on NutritionFacts.org, so if you have any videos saved to your “favorites,” now is the time to save those links on your computer before the function goes away. These changes will be rolling out in the next few weeks.

    1. Kate,

      Looking forward to it.

      Does that mean we will have the ability to edit and delete?

      If so, everybody will be happier because people like me can process all of the information visually out loud and then delete the thoughts that led me to revelation.

      I will be the most excited of all because I really do mentally require extra processes than everybody else and I know it annoys people and I don’t want that.

  7. Off topic”
    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-Organic-Multi-Grain-Seeds-Thin-Sliced-Bread-20-oz/300303229?irgwc=1&sourceid=imp_2WFTZvSqHxyOWkHwUx0Mo3b1UkiXITWxLway2g0&veh=aff&wmlspartner=imp_2003851&clickid=2WFTZvSqHxyOWkHwUx0Mo3b1UkiXITWxLway2g0&sharedid=

    A pretty good multi-grain, Great Value brand bread to be found at Walmart for a fair price. Organic, Non-GMO, lots of grains, very little sugar, a bit of salt and no fat.

    I know Ezekiel 4:9 is better, but I have to go to another store to get it, and it costs more.

    1. “A pretty good multi-grain, Great Value brand bread to be found at Walmart for a fair price. Organic, Non-GMO, lots of grains, very little sugar, a bit of salt and no fat.

      I know Ezekiel 4:9 is better, but I have to go to another store to get it, and it costs more.”

      Dan,

      Thanks for the heads up!

      May I ask:

      Frozen or regular shelf?

      Double bagged or single?

      I notice that the Walmart bread contains 2 gm of added sugar per slice, typical of commercial whole wheat breads (which range from 1-4 gm) – whereas the Ezekiel 4:9 has none.

      Do you taste the difference?

      Watcha think?

      Thank you,

      Vivamus

      1. V,
        Shelf, single bag. Ezekiel has no sugar taste because there is no sugar. Walmart has a sugarless, shelf bread with salt, and other stuff I avoid. A complaint I’ve heard about Ezekiel is that it tastes like cardboard. I focus on the healthy part of it, not the SOS part.

        1. Dan,

          A few issues in regards to breads and whole grains –

          (1) All shelf breads – which are combinations of carbohydrates (including added sugar) and water – are perfect mold-growing media. So they all have preservatives “to preserve freshness.” Sounds great! Who is against fresh bread? The preservatives, of course, are toxic to mold. That which is toxic to mold may be toxic to other microbes in your intestinal microbiome. As I learned more about the microbiome, I wondered if foods containing preservatives might be toxic to the microbiome?

          I have held a loaf of forgotten packaged whole wheat bread that was several months old. Not a speck of mold. Soft to the squeeze – it looked in every way like it had been born yesterday. That really hit things home – if no microbes had eaten it by then, should I be eating it at all?

          Kinda like when I stopped eating “baby carrots” – ’cause the rabbit wouldn’t touch ’em. It tells ya somethin’. I checked around – the rabbit was right.

          In the Soviet Union – it was the sausage that the dogs wouldn’t eat. These sort of observations kinda hit ya in the gut – what more does a man really need to know?

          Preservatives in regular bread may read like a chemistry set – they are easily recognizable. Preservatives in “organic” breads may be more circumspect – vinegar, citric acid, “conditioners.” But they are all designed to retard the growth of microbes. The microbiome is microbes – and we are only scratching the surface of understanding what it is all about.

          What to do, what to do . . .

          So – I went on a literature search. It took a while to find anything at all. I finally found – one paper. They found that the microbiome did indeed change in relation to food preservatives – but they did not know enough about those changes to say whether those changes were good or bad.

          Ahh . . . not leaping off to unwarranted assumptions. This is real science. My kinda people.

          They also noted that – as far as they could determine – that they were the only paper addressing this topic in the literature. That when they looked, they came up empty handed. The field is unstudied.

          I found that chilling. It certainly matched with my own search difficulties.

          And – I finally started making my own assumptions. All of these preservatives are GRAS. But it looks like that status may have been granted on the basis of not knowing if there is harm – not on the basis of knowing that there is no harm.

          Absence of proof is not the same as proof of absence.

          And my instincts set in: the Precautionary Principle. I.e., Murphy’s Law: if it can go wrong, it will.

          And I started the path of clearing preservatives out of my diet entirely.

          Is this difficult?

          Well – no packaged bakery items – they all contain preservatives. Packaged foods with fats? – preservatives are needed to fight off the inevitable rancidity. So – no Hostess Twinkies. No Little Debbies. No Cheez-its. No Chips-Ahoy.

          No junk food? How is a man to live?

          So – it just reinforces WFPB eating. Not a bad thing in itself, I suppose.

          Just had an organic Gala apple with organic nuts. Delicious.

          I used to think that Ezekiel bread was overpriced ridiculousness for nut-cases.

          Frozen bread? Ridiculous! And look at the price tag! These guys must be off their rockers!

          I was wrong. As I checked out the options – it turns out that these guys were the best choice of all. Ezekiel was right all along.

          Mea culpa.

          Prices of the frozen Ezekiel bread here run $3.99-7.99 depending on the store and on sales. On sale? I buy two loaves. Hey – did you know you can freeze it? ;-)

          (2) Double bagging.

          We live in the age of the Novel Coronavirus. The Cononavirus is preserved by freezing. Sterilizing packaging by washing leads to leaks with bread packaging and wet soapy bread – been there, done that.

          Is this really an issue? Dunno. There are studies of Coronavirus preserved on refrigerated and frozen foods. Precautionary Principle. Murphy’s Law.

          With the double bagging of Ezekeiel Bread – no problemo. You just open the outer bag and drop the inner bag on a clean counter – throw the outer bag away – wash your hands – put the inner bag containing the loaf of bread in the freezer – and remove slices as needed.

          It is almost as if they thought of this . . .

          These guys are good!

          And – the bread tastes wonderful!

          Like cardboard.

          (3) “Tastes like cardboard.” Yup.

          ‘Most all whole grains taste like cardboard. I certainly noticed it when I switched over from refined grains.

          The critics are absolutely right. The effect is not subtle.

          100% whole wheat bread. Brown rice. 100% whole wheat noodles. The most extreme is hulled barley – if you ever have the need for pure, unadulterated, distilled cardboard flavoring, go with hulled barley. Hulled barley also has the most fiber of any of the whole grains – there does seem to be a direct correlation between cardboard flavor and fiber content.

          How to deal with it? At first – noodles – switched over to thin spaghetti and double sauce. I.e. – increased noodle surface area per volume and added flavors.

          Switched to more robust accompaniments. Hearty bean stew – garlic, onion, tomato, etc.!

          Heavy red wine foods instead of light white wine foods.

          Over time, ya get used to it. New normal.

          Now – if my bread doesn’t taste like cardboard, I know there’s something wrong with it.

          I no longer even notice.

          But do be sensitive to this matter if you are hosting guests.

          (4) I did get into breadmaking for a while – even to the extent of wild yeast sourdough. I did enjoy it – people went wild over it – out of control – couldn’t stop eatin’ – kinda neat to create something that wonderful – but I have drifted away.

          I will probably return one day with organic oat groats instead of flour and see what happens.

          Instead – I have been cookin’ whole oat groats and millet (and hulled barley when available) and using them similarly to how I used to use brown rice in the pre-arsenic awareness era. This has taken up a lot of the slack that I used to fill with fresh cooked whole wheat sourdough bread – and it uses intact whole grains instead of the processed (ground) flour I used to use when makin’ my own bread – which is why I switched over in the first place.

          Ezekiel bread is made from sprouted grains – not conventional ground flour. Again – they have always been way ahead of me.

          These guys are good.

          ——————————-

          Just some ideas. All for now.

          Good night –

          Vivamus

          1. Correction:

            I will probably return one day with organic wheat groats instead of flour and see what happens.

            In place of:

            “I will probably return one day with organic oat groats instead of flour and see what happens.”

            Vivamus

          2. V,
            I’m going back to Ezekiel. I have questioned, “Why eat bread at all?” I eat bushels of rolled oats, barley and other grains and seeds. My answer may be that, “I like bread with my soup.”
            Interesting bread story: “Dave’s kiiller bread.” You may have seen it. Hefty loaf of bread with lots of good stuff, and bad, at a fair price. Dave came from a bread making family, got sideways with the law and put in prison. He convinced the parole board that all of his psych drugs had him back in good shape, so he takes over the family bread company and turns millions in profit. The employees are mostly ex-prisoners. Dave goes wild again and sells the company for millions. Don’t know where he is at now.

            1. Dan,

              Good move.

              And great story.

              I do remember looking at Dave’s Killer Bread – and passing it by for some now-forgotten reason.

              A buncha new “healthy ” products have been showing up here lately. Deb has commented on it. Ruth, as well. I check ’em out where there might be a good fit – but I keep finding details that do not fit my ideas of healthy.

              Like they are designed as traps for the unwary. It’s kinda weird.

              Lesee – I just did a web search – one slice of the Dave’s 100% whole wheat runs 4 gm of sugar, which is at the highest end that I have seen in any 100% commercial whole wheat bread – these products typically run 1%-4%, organic or no. I guess that 100% whole wheat bread may taste bitter to some – or that some prefer something sweet to take the edge off the cardboard flavoring. Or that it fits with the general sweetening of the American palate that we have seen in American industrial food over the decades.

              I understand that ~70% of American processed foods now contain added sugar.

              Mr. Fumblefingers – are you seeing similar palate sweetening over time on your side of the planet?

              For me – that level of sugar in bread is trash can material. So Dave’s is a no-go.

              Now it’s a no-go with a great story.

              ——————————————————-

              I eat bread with soups, as well. For me – it is a cracker substitute. I always used to eat soups with saltines – but as my diet has progressed, this would now require an organic no-salt 100% whole grain “saltine” – which doesn’t seem to exist. Entrepreneurs take note! So – slow (~15-20 minutes at ~250 degrees F) cooked bread becomes super-crunchy toast, and serves a similar function as crunchy healthy crackers would. Bread also useful in sandwich structures. Otherwise – it is oats, millet – and hulled barley when I can get it. Rice now abandoned – even organic – due to the arsenic situation.

              I have been getting the Sesame Ezekiel. Copper (sesame). I am trying to catch up on low iron and low zinc – I was eating meticulous “healthy” vegan and things just fell apart – and when you play repair catch up, there is concern about iron and zinc absorption displacing copper absorption. So the Sesame Ezekiel seems like a good idea.

              Question – what does Ezekiel run in your neck of the woods?

              I am intrigued by the wide span in prices locally – I just bought two loaves at $3.99 each this morning. I just cannot seem to get my head around how any foodstuff can typically run $3.99-$7.99, depending on the store. These stores are otherwise pretty similar. What does that tell us about our food delivery system?

              I dunno. But It does pique my interest.

              Have you tried bakin’ bread? It can be a kick-and-a-half. I think you might be able to do it with a slurry of pre-soaked wheat berries – I’ve just gotten a little lazy since finally stumblin’ across Ezekiel, and haven’t yet tried it.

              Now?

              It’s a beautiful day –

              Vivamus

              1. I’m in the Philippines and virtually everything has added sugar. It’s been like that ever since I first came here seven years ago. They sell special ‘Filipino-style’ pasta sauces, pizzas etc which have even more added sugar than their US, Australian & European equivalents.

                Truth to tell though, the scariest.thing here is all the high trans fat foodstuffs on sale and heavily marketed by the likes of Nestle

                1. Mr Fumblefingers,

                  Thank you.

                  Are you eatin’ that sort of thing or cookin’ at home?

                  Are you seeing the American-style girths and health problems – diabetes, cardiovascular disease, etc. – amongt the locals?

                  Much of an Expat community? Or have you gone local?

                  You are certainly livin’ in an interestin’ place in interestin’ times!

                  Is it goin’ as you planned?

                  Best regards,

                  Vivamus

                  1. I do eat out occasionally although I usually just stick to black coffee or tea while others eat. Finding places that serve vegetarian food prepared without oil salt or sugar is difficult. My wife therefore makes most of my food (she gets upset if I cook) and that’s based on blac/brown/red rice or sweet potatoes plus assorted vegetables including legumes.

                    From observation, I’d reckon that 80% of people over 30 here are overweight or obese. Even the ‘slim’ ones often have a visible pot belly. Junk foods are everywhere and diabetes is common. Plus fatty pork and fried chicken when people have spare cash. Dried fish too. Perhaps not coincidentally, last year two kidney dialysis centres opened within a mile or two f where we live. There had been none before.

                    Lots of Americans here. And Europeans. Pensions go a lot further than they would in North America, Europe or Australia plus English is an official language and many official forms and legal documents are in English. Alcohol and cigarettes are also cheap.

                    I’d hoped to spend half the year here and half in Australia but I haven’t managed to get back to Oz for over a year now. The lockdown here is very strict and travel is difficult.

                    1. Mt Fumblefingers,

                      Thank you!

                      Questions, questions – always questions . . . .

                      Social life?

                      Medical care?

                      Are you maintaining two households – one in the Philippines and one in Australia?

                      Would you recommend this lifestyle to others?

                      And the most important question of all –

                      How’s the weather?

                      Regards,

                      Vivamus

                    2. V

                      There are cinemas, bowling alleys, bars and restaurants but not the range of social clubs available in Western countries. No symphony orchestras, opera or theatres either, But learning to scuba dive or fly etc is cheap. Plenty of expat hang-outs too.

                      Medical and dental care are cheap also – dental tourism is why I first came here. Quality is OK but only if you choose the right hospitals and dental clinics.

                      Yes, I have a condo back in Oz and some property here. It’s affordable because property here is relatively cheap as is the cost of living generally. .

                      I wouldn’t really recommend it to others though because there’s a lot of poverty, dirt and pollution. On the other hand, you could live in a resort or planned community. That’s pleasant enough but obviously is not the cheapest option here. Contemplating the worst in the future, though, that lifestyle would cost significantly less than an assisted living facility in North America. Many middle class families here have maids and/or drivers. A live-in maid is paid about $100 US a month plus bed and board.

                      The climate is hot and humid – about 30C all year round, varying by about 3 or 4 degrees. Air conditioning is pretty essential.

                      All in all, there are pros and cons to retiring here.

                    3. Mr Fumblefingers,

                      Thank you for the information. Much appreciated.

                      I think I will probably stick it out, here.

                      I find that when people leave one set of troubles behind, they find themselves another set wherever they go.

                      And looking around – climate change, Coronavirus, other issues – many other issues – I know that I am relatively fortunate where I am. And I am thankful.

                      Better to stay and make my life here.

                      Still – I know Expats – from both directions – and their lives are always of interest.

                      To me it like someone who is rooted in one spot suddenly becoming a tossed salad.

                      All sorts of assumptions are challenged, all sorts of experiences that one would otherwise have never had – all sorts of perspectives other than our own – enriching our brief time on this earth.

                      Making it all last just a little bit longer.

                      Mr Fumblefigers – if I am not mistaken – enjoy being a Brit with one foot in Australia and one foot planted very firmly in the Philippines.

                      One man. Three lives.

                      (One place wasn’t big enough for him!)

                      All the best –

                      Vivamus

              2. V,
                Ezekiel has 3 or 4 options here in NE OK. Homeland prices it around $5, IGA around $4. I think it would be okay if they put date sugar (or date pieces) in it. I buy dates separately.

              3. One of my substitutes for crackers is Wasa crispbread. Prefer the sourdough which is made from only rye. 50 mg. Sodium, 50 mg. Potaasium, 5 carbs, 1 fiber, 30 calories. Also like the German thin-sliced whole rye breads.
                The Ezekiel 4:9 raison muffins are great.
                I like baking bread, but my time, especially in summer, is very limited.
                Lots of gardening to do besides everything else.

                1. Marilyn,

                  I had completely forgotten Wasa crispbread. “Rye Crisps.” I think it has been decades.

                  I checked out the ingredient list this morning – I was expectin’ all manner of preservatives.

                  Ingredients list of the Light Rye: whole grain rye flour, salt.

                  That’s it. Those Germans are sumpthin’ else!

                  I was able to snag a package each of the Light Rye and the Multigrain locally – the other versions seem to be unavailable here.

                  Both now in the pantry undergoing the standard nine-day quarantine. We will learn which version goes best with soup in the fullness of time.

                  Thanks for the heads up!

                  Vivamus

            1. Barb,

              Thank you. Looks good!

              I have saved the url.

              I have the cremini mushrooms, chosen fresh from the grocer’s box this morning.

              No hulled barley – I will need to keep my eyes out.

              I know nothing of curry leaves – would you be kind enough to enlighten me?

              As for the sherry – I do not have any fino presently – do you think Amontillado would do the trick? There is a Cask of Amontillado in the vaults, but – The vaults are insufferably damp. They are encrusted with nitre. Best not to descend if the task is needless.

              And I have never used (hot) Indian curry spice blend. Your thoughts?

              Thanks, again,

              Vivamus

              —————————————————————

              The Cask of Amontillado
              pp. 582-584 (216-218)
              1846
              https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015025890040&view=1up&seq=582

              1. Vivamus, regarding the sherry: I have included the sherry once once (for company) and I bought what was on sale at the time. It is lovely with/without it however you prefer it. As for the spices, I don’t use hot curry blend, nor do I use a cook’s listed amounts in recipes. In this recipe, for four servings (or adding 4 to 6 cups broth) I would use either a trusted mild curry blend and add pinches of crushed dried chilies to taste for heat. Or, my own blend…. 1/2 tsp tumeric, maybe the same of cumin and coriander, smoked paprika, ground pepper. Dried curry leaves are inexpensive and available probably at your health food store. They are sold in small containers or bulk and are smaller and more fragile than bay leaves. If you don’t have them, not a problem.

            2. Barb, I rarely eat rice so barley is my rice substitute even in stir-fries.
              Just finished making a big pot of barley, bean and kale soup. So a variation on the theme is great. Thanks for the recipe.

              1. yw Marilyn! I just finished making a pot of thick vegetable barley lentil soup with spinach swirled through it :) I sometimes buy the wasa bread or german thin sliced breads which are both easy-to-store options. And higher fiber too.

      1. Dan,

        I signed the solar contract today.

        I chose an option that caused me to laugh.

        I chose the 20-year loan of tiny monthly payments, but I will most likely pay it off within 2 years.

        I did that because if something goes wrong, I won’t have problems.

        But I don’t like having debt and I have almost never had to pay interest on things, so the 20-years is a ridiculous concept that I chose in case something happened to my job.

        Mainly, I just hate making decisions and had decision-fatigue.

      2. Ignore the 5:1 fiber rule.

        I ran the math on that once – all sorts of healthy foods don’t meet it.

        The whole idea was obviously ill-conceived.

        Just ignore it.

        Vivamus

  8. There is a new plant based product on the market from OZO products made by Plantera Foods. I am alerting the plant based community that before you purchase and eat this latest in plant based product (not food in my opinion) you check out the ingredients. These products are filled with highly saturated fat palm oil. If you care about your cardiovascular system and heart you may want to think thrice before putting this product – not food – into your mouth. Products with palm and coconut oils are not healthy per all of the plant based healthy physicians.
    Thank you

    1. Ruth, Thanks for the heads-up.

      I’ve been tempted to try some of these new products just to see what they taste like. But I do read all the fine print ingredients and most of them I turn down and don’t even try.

    2. Palm oil/coconut oil

      Can we assume that this can safely be at least a “sometimes’ thing? Like I do go through a pack of Follow Your Heart “cheese” over a two week period, which is like one slice every other day. etc…

      Its must nice on my chilli with some scallions, of on a flax wrap with hummous avocado lettuce sundried tomato and some smoked tempeh. etc…

      1. Nobody knows for sure.

        Those [articular oils are high in saturated fats though and It would probably be better to find a high PUFA or high MUFA oil that you like instead. I don’t use any oils myself since I can’t see any benefit from it.

        According to the American Heart Association:

        ‘Replacement of saturated with unsaturated fats lowers low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, a cause of atherosclerosis, linking biological evidence with incidence of CVD in populations and in clinical trials. Taking into consideration the totality of the scientific evidence, satisfying rigorous criteria for causality, we conclude strongly that lowering intake of saturated fat and replacing it with unsaturated fats, especially polyunsaturated fats, will lower the incidence of CVD.’
        https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIR.0000000000000510

        US and WHO Guidelines state that saturated fat should deliver no more than 10% of total calories but a number of experts believe that saturated fat consumption should in fact be as low as possible (which would exclude coconut and palm oils).

        https://www.hhs.gov/fitness/eat-healthy/dietary-guidelines-for-americans/index.html
        https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/healthy-diet
        https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/pub/1461

    1. Dan C,

      Over 20 lead videos!

      You should see how many come up when you put in cancer.

      I just finished strategizing how to pay off my solar panels and I figured out that I can schedule it to be installed closer to the end of November and I would have 3 months paycheck, plus payments don’t start until 2 months after final installation. I could put every penny of that, plus tax refund, and I can give myself a Christmas bonus, and there is a chance there will be another stimulus check and I could be finished paying with only a hundred dollars interest or so.

      Either way, even without some of that, I can pay it within 6 to 9 months and not have more than a few hundred dollars interest.

      I hate having any debt. Ever.

      1. I could touch my savings account and maybe do it faster.

        I can’t figure things out.

        I think I need a life coach but I can’t afford that with everything else.

      2. Deb,
        “I hate having any debt, ever.” Life is an entrophy experience. But you have taken a step to minimize this with free solar from the sun. Idea: Take your average monthly energy bill and apply that to your solar installation payment. Things really haven’t changed much, untill a few years from now when you will not be making a payment. You may be able to reap a yearly alternative energy tax credit. Think of it. Your installation could be making payments to you.

        1. Deb,
          Can you spin your meter backwards and sell to the grid, or are you off grid? A consideration already mentioned: During inclement weather you could store lower priced, off peak grid electric. Another idea: energy sharing with your solar neighbors or sharing with neighbors during outages.

          1. Dan,

            I will be staying on-grid unless the electric company pulls something.

            If they did pull something (which I heard they had in California) not sure if that is internet rumors or not.

            In the complaint section of YouTube people said that the electric company doubled the rates. I suspect that the installer messed up the turn the meter backwards part but if the electric company did suddenly double my rates, I would get a Titan to go with the Tesla and close my account.

            Batteries are about to change so I would rather just do this part.

            I could help my friends and relatives who are poor if they get a solar generator. I would definitely share with them.

            That is a great idea.

            1. Dan,

              That is an inspired idea.

              I have a few people who told me that they don’t even know what to do about their electric bills and I could split my electric bill which will be much cheaper with them and they could get a Titan or a Jackery and come to my house to charge it.

            2. Deb,
              Utility & consumer co-production could be useful to: 1. Even out surge demand, 2. Redirect power locally during storm damage via sub storage stations. This coops the consumer & utility.

  9. I watched some of the slime video again this morning. The slime is a single celled “organism.” Not an animal; not a plant; not a fungus. I might liken it to stem cells. It can be cut up into thousands of pieces and regain its function. Could it be programed (CRISPR) for different functions, like making food from dirt or debris? Think of it, a free slime omlette every day. Or, tweak it to make another food form.

  10. I started talking with the homeless community about WFPB.

    There are a lot of almost homeless and coming out of homelessness and genuinely homeless people who chat.

    I told them that they could possibly get off all of their meds and it might help them with pain.

    I will discuss it every week.

  11. I posted the neuropathy video and the Forks Over Knives getting off of dialysis article.

    The man who posted the article said in it that other people are having similar results.

    (in case Dr Ornish wants to get people off of dialysis in his next study)

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