The World’s Largest Fasting Study

The World’s Largest Fasting Study
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Buchinger modified fasting is put to the test.

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

A century ago, fasting—starvation as a therapeutic measure—was described as the ideal measure for obesity (as you can see, fat shaming is not a new invention in the medical literature). I’ve extensively covered fasting for weight loss in a nine-video series starting with this one, but what about all the other purported benefits? I do have a video series on fasting for hypertension, but what about psoriasis, eczema, type 2 diabetes, lupus, metabolic disorder, rheumatoid arthritis and other autoimmune disorders, depression, anxiety—why hasn’t it been tested more?

One difficulty with fasting research is: what do you mean by fasting? When I think fasting, I think of water-only fasting, but in Europe they tend to practice so-called modified fasting, or Buchinger fasting, which is more like a very low-calorie juice fasting with some vegetable broth. Some forms of fasting may not even cut calories at all. Ramadan fasting is when devout Muslims abstain from food and drink from sunrise to sunset, yet interestingly, they end up eating the same amount, or even more food, overall.

The largest study on fasting to date was published in 2019. More than a thousand individuals were put through a modified fast, cutting intake down to about 10 cups of water, a cup of fruit juice, and a cup of vegetable soup a day. They reported very few side effects, which is in contrast to the latest water-only fasting data, which only involved half as many people, but reported nearly 6,000 adverse effects. Now, the modified fasting study did seem to try to undercount adverse effects, only counting reported symptoms if they were repeated three times, but still only reporting single cases of things like nausea, feeling faint, upset stomach, vomiting, or palpitations, whereas the water-only fasting study reported about one to two hundred of each. What about the benefits, though?

In the modified fasting study, participants self-reported improvements in physical and emotional well-being, along with a surprising lack of hunger. And the vast majority of those who came in with a pre-existing health complaint reported feeling better, with less than 10 percent reporting their condition worsening or remaining unchanged. They weren’t just fasted though, but engaged in a lifestyle program, which included being placed before and after on a plant-based diet. Too bad they didn’t have some people just do the healthier diet without the fast to tease out the fasting effects.  Oh, but they did! About a thousand folks fasted for a week on the same juice and vegetable soup regimen versus those put on a normocaloric (meaning normal calorie) vegetarian diet the whole time.

Both experienced significant increases in both physical and mental quality of life, and interestingly ,there was no significant difference between the groups. In terms of their major health complaints—rheumatoid arthritis, chronic pain syndromes like osteoarthritis, fibromyalgia, and back pain, inflammatory and irritable bowel disease, chronic pulmonary diseases, and migraine and chronic tension-type headaches, the fasting group appeared to have an edge, but both groups did good, with about 80 percent reporting improvements in their condition, with only about 4 percent reporting feeling worse.

Now, this was not a randomized study; people chose which treatment they wanted; so maybe, for example, those choosing fasting were sicker or something. The improvements in quality of life and disease status were also all subjective self-report, which is ripe for placebo effects, no do-nothing control group, and the response rates to the follow-up quality of life surveys were only about 60-70 percent, which also could have biased the results. But extended benefits are certainly possible, given they all tended to improve their diets. More fruits and vegetables, less meats and sweets, and therein may lie the secret. Principally, the experience of fasting may support motivation for lifestyle change. “Most fasters experience clarity of mind and feel a ‘letting go’ of past actions and experiences, and thus may develop a more positive attitude toward the future.”

As a consensus panel of fasting experts concluded, “Nutritional therapy is a vital and integral component of fasting. After the fasting therapy and refeeding period, nutrition should follow the recommendations… of a plant-based whole-food diet….”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Video production by Glass Entertainment

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

A century ago, fasting—starvation as a therapeutic measure—was described as the ideal measure for obesity (as you can see, fat shaming is not a new invention in the medical literature). I’ve extensively covered fasting for weight loss in a nine-video series starting with this one, but what about all the other purported benefits? I do have a video series on fasting for hypertension, but what about psoriasis, eczema, type 2 diabetes, lupus, metabolic disorder, rheumatoid arthritis and other autoimmune disorders, depression, anxiety—why hasn’t it been tested more?

One difficulty with fasting research is: what do you mean by fasting? When I think fasting, I think of water-only fasting, but in Europe they tend to practice so-called modified fasting, or Buchinger fasting, which is more like a very low-calorie juice fasting with some vegetable broth. Some forms of fasting may not even cut calories at all. Ramadan fasting is when devout Muslims abstain from food and drink from sunrise to sunset, yet interestingly, they end up eating the same amount, or even more food, overall.

The largest study on fasting to date was published in 2019. More than a thousand individuals were put through a modified fast, cutting intake down to about 10 cups of water, a cup of fruit juice, and a cup of vegetable soup a day. They reported very few side effects, which is in contrast to the latest water-only fasting data, which only involved half as many people, but reported nearly 6,000 adverse effects. Now, the modified fasting study did seem to try to undercount adverse effects, only counting reported symptoms if they were repeated three times, but still only reporting single cases of things like nausea, feeling faint, upset stomach, vomiting, or palpitations, whereas the water-only fasting study reported about one to two hundred of each. What about the benefits, though?

In the modified fasting study, participants self-reported improvements in physical and emotional well-being, along with a surprising lack of hunger. And the vast majority of those who came in with a pre-existing health complaint reported feeling better, with less than 10 percent reporting their condition worsening or remaining unchanged. They weren’t just fasted though, but engaged in a lifestyle program, which included being placed before and after on a plant-based diet. Too bad they didn’t have some people just do the healthier diet without the fast to tease out the fasting effects.  Oh, but they did! About a thousand folks fasted for a week on the same juice and vegetable soup regimen versus those put on a normocaloric (meaning normal calorie) vegetarian diet the whole time.

Both experienced significant increases in both physical and mental quality of life, and interestingly ,there was no significant difference between the groups. In terms of their major health complaints—rheumatoid arthritis, chronic pain syndromes like osteoarthritis, fibromyalgia, and back pain, inflammatory and irritable bowel disease, chronic pulmonary diseases, and migraine and chronic tension-type headaches, the fasting group appeared to have an edge, but both groups did good, with about 80 percent reporting improvements in their condition, with only about 4 percent reporting feeling worse.

Now, this was not a randomized study; people chose which treatment they wanted; so maybe, for example, those choosing fasting were sicker or something. The improvements in quality of life and disease status were also all subjective self-report, which is ripe for placebo effects, no do-nothing control group, and the response rates to the follow-up quality of life surveys were only about 60-70 percent, which also could have biased the results. But extended benefits are certainly possible, given they all tended to improve their diets. More fruits and vegetables, less meats and sweets, and therein may lie the secret. Principally, the experience of fasting may support motivation for lifestyle change. “Most fasters experience clarity of mind and feel a ‘letting go’ of past actions and experiences, and thus may develop a more positive attitude toward the future.”

As a consensus panel of fasting experts concluded, “Nutritional therapy is a vital and integral component of fasting. After the fasting therapy and refeeding period, nutrition should follow the recommendations… of a plant-based whole-food diet….”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Video production by Glass Entertainment

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Doctor's Note

If you missed the previous video, check out The Benefits of Fasting for Healing.

The video series on fasting for weight loss is here:

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

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138 responses to “The World’s Largest Fasting Study

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    1. Okay, appears the water is safe. He doesn’t end this one with a lingering question.

      Yes this is how much I hate that. And these two comments are for the benefit of anyone else like me, others are not expected to share the same opinion and that’s just fine.

      wp

        1. On the topic of fasting,
          this video of a conversation between Rich Roll and Alan Goldhamer is really interesting. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yaWVflQolmM
          I posted it in Monday’s forum but not sure anyone saw it.
          They cover numerous topics including obesity, food addiction in our society, how water fasting can help, medications and precautions, microbiome, what happens when we fast, importance of fresh, whole foods, sllep and exercise, and so much more.

            1. DavidH, you’re most welcome. I thought it was great. Rich Roll is a terrific interviewer. He asks the questions we want the answers to. Alan made some really interesting comments (I was listening for how-to’s) particularly around water, not using supplements, medication effects under fasting conditions, health conditions improved by fasting, and more.

          1. Barb,
            I viewed the Goldhamer / Roll conversation. I’ve for a long time suspected eating WFPB (+ sleep, exercise and all the good stuff) has similar benefits of fasting. After all, after water fasting, people are maintained on WFPB. In Dr. Greger’s current video he shows the control WFPB group did about as well. I even suspect (I’m suspicious) that fasting is a bait & switch approach for swaping out unhealthy living for healthy living. Kinda like fasters saying, after 30 days of drinking water I became enlightened and then started eating right. Okay, I realize I am being colorful here. It does seem like there is a fasting benefit.

            1. Dan, many of us have experienced benefits in eating whole, unadultered fresh foods, exercising regularly, and getting our 7 to 9 hrs sleep per night. All great. But fasting can also add distinct benefits as Alan and Rich were discussing. One benefit you mentioned, is the “space” a person gets in fasting from addictive food substances, especially the added salt, oils, sugar. Whole natural foods will taste very different to a person coming off of a 2 week fast, than someone walking out the doors of a fast food restaurant.

              interesting that the study (first link) mentions fasters were fed increasing calories over 4 consecutive days to finish the fast.

              My close friend here had a stroke last night, and we’re waiting to hear from the doctors. :( The way I see it, it’s worth making the effort Dan re eat, sleep, exercise, and possibly fasting.

              Fasting study from monday’s video. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29321682/

              An interesting study on brain health re fasting and or exercise for anyone interested. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29321682/

              1. Barb,

                Sorry to hear about your friend.

                Did your friend make it to the hospital within the critical 3-hour window?

                If your friend has deficits, she might want to learn about brain plasticity as quickly as possible.

                https://www.facebook.com/doctor.health/videos/dr-mercola-interviews-dr-bob-dennis-on-stroke-of-luck/421297658438267/

                A lot of times we wait passively and waste the first week in the hospital and not start until rehab and the brain plasticity is the strongest during the first month so wasting a week means that people sometimes don’t come as far back. Bob Dennis started doing exercises before the ambulance came.

                1. Thanks Deb, she is in good hands. There is a specialty stroke assessment clinic near here, and her team includes the neurologist I saw last fall. He prescribes lifestyle changes, and this is where my friend had resistance. She is a night owl, eats ready-made foods,
                  does not exercise. Hopefully they can help her.

                2. Deb – I find I must respond to your comments re: rehab, brain plasticity, etc. My education and profession is in Neuroscience, Neuropsychology and I spent 15 years practicing clinical neurorehabilitation in an inpatient post-acute setting. Your comment that the first week is so important isn’t necessarily correct and it is irresponsible of you to make this type of claim unless you are a professional in the field. When rehabilitation is appropriate to begin depends entirely and specifically on the nature and type of injury in and of the brain. For some, it is clinically inappropriate to begin rehabilitation until the person and their brain experience some measure of “clearing”.Depending upon the nature of the injury, surgery, or not, etc. the brain can be filled with pressure, blood, drugs, chemicals, etc and rehab needs to wait until some of the ‘gunk’ is cleared out by natural bodily systems. There are clinical ways that PROFESSIONAL CLINICIANS determine when this is appropriate. The brain experiences its most and best improvements after injury in the first year and the repair and improvements are far from linear. Some of our patients could not begin rehab for weeks or, occasionally, months.
                  It is completely inappropriate and perhaps detrimental to others for you to dispense information regarding brain injury that you are clearly not educated in. Just because you had an injury does not mean that you can determine what is best for every other person who has had a brain injury. This type of injury is highly variable and can be, but isn’t necessarily, highly complex. Just as Dr. Greger does not dispense medical information because it’s not appropriate, you should not either.

              2. Barb,
                It does seem that the True North fasting regime is a very sucessful way to unplug addicted SAD eaters and transition them to food that will sustain them. Chef AJ goes there every fall for the warm and fuzzy support she gets to counter her food addiction.

                I also took note that traditional fasters, like those celebrating Ramadan, may actually be eating more calories. This suggests other benefits for fasting like maybe a warm and fuzzy runner’s high.

    2. The point of the website is to provide updates on nutrition research in bite sized videos for both patients and doctors.

      As far as I know, its aim is not to provide free health and diet tips to ungrateful whingers who either don’t know or don’t care what the site is about.

      I swear some people would complain if Dr Greger electronically deposited a million dollars into their bank account. After all if the guy wasn’t such a publicity hound, he could have discreetly and anonymously provided it in used bills stuffed into brown paper bags. That way, the IRS wouldn’t need to know about it.

        1. Even the Australians are not buying that crap. Try reading their media Darwin or is selectively only finding what agrees with your wants how you use the internet?

        2. It’s pretty much fake news isn’t it? Sensationail current affairs shows like the 60 Minutes franchise love ‘shock’ reporting but aren’t noted for rigorous fact checking.

          The story doesn’t make any sense on so many levels but I suppose it will guarantee that Chinese lady political refugee status and eventually US citizenship plus a job.

      1. Reality bites,

        Well, at least you’re not bashing Dr Greger now!

        I’m glad I was able to help Dr Greger by serving to be your piñata for the day ;-)

        1. This is why I can’t recommend this excellent informational site to my patients.
          Their reaction tends to be that the wfpb diet must make people nasty and irritable.
          Apparently the monitors don’t choose to handle the name calling.

          1. Hi Marilyn, Regarding your comment: “Their reaction tends to be that the wfpb diet must make people nasty and irritable.”

            I never thought of that connection, but you’re right! People reading through the comments section must wonder if there is a connection to the food.

            I do recommend this website to close friends and family because, if necessary, I can explain that there is no connection to the food. And I assume that they will just watch the videos and not read the comments.

            But I can see why you would have a problem recommending it to patients. And I just looked back on the comments of Monday’s video, and now there are some really vulgar words being used, another reason for not recommending to patients.

          2. Marilyn, I see your point about the name calling, but no sympathies to people who actually judge a diet or anything similar to contents on a message board. The boards did used to seem more dignified, though, and less intolerant with the exception of trolls. It almost makes me nostalgic for Jerry Lewis, haha, that seems like forever ago (not the actual person, a troll who used to obsessively post here).

    1. the actual science paints a far different picture:

      “Predictable, inevitable, preventable.” Those are the words of Wendy Orent, an anthropologist specializing in health and pandemics, in describing the novel Coronavirus outbreak. We are now literally in lockdown over a crisis of our own creation that need never exist, if it were not for our exploitation of animals and their habitats. And the fact that we have had other viral outbreaks that preceded the current one (SARS, MERS, avian flus, swine flu, Ebola, and HIV) means we’ve willfully chosen to ignore the important lessons from our recent past.

      Since all of our energy and resources are now dedicated to averting the crisis, the message of prevention may not resonate until the crisis is better under control and our minds are freer to reflect on how this happened. Nevertheless, the revelation that this crisis is largely of our own choosing is disturbing on many levels. It means those who shape global food and health policy are knowingly ignoring animal agriculture, the very industry that most undermines the goals of protecting public health and the environment, improving food security, alleviating poverty, and mitigating climate change and ecological collapse.”

      https://freefromharm.org/food-and-wildlife/predictable-inevitable-preventable-viral-outbreaks-and-our-contact-with-other-animals/

      “The numbers of nonhuman animals exploited as food on the expropriated lands soared and in the early 20th century the virus underlying the catastrophic influenza pandemic of 1918, likely first originating among confined pigs, resulted in an estimated 50 million deaths around the world before settling into the seasonal flu. The exploitation of chickens, ducks, geese and other birds for food likely contributed to the H2N2 virus of 1957, that led to a million deaths; and the 1968 H3N2 influenza virus that also caused roughly one million deaths. In 2002 the coronavirus SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome), again linked to the consumption of nonhuman animals as food, killed hundreds, while in 2009 the H1N1 influenza virus, believed to have originated in factory farms for pigs on North Carolina, resulted in as many as 500,000 deaths worldwide. In 2012 exploitation of other animals led to the rise of the coronavirus MERS (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome) which also killed hundreds, and the present pandemic of the coronavirus Covid-19, again linked to the use of nonhuman animals as food, is now wreaking havoc across the globe. With tens of billions of nonhuman animals either hunted or farmed in the world’s current system of food production, future pandemics are all but certain.”

      https://freefromharm.org/animal-rights/exploiting-animals-killing-us/

      1. ahimsa42,

        I’ve noticed that the WHO et. al. – and pretty much all of the mainstream press – dance around this by targeting wild food markets (referring only to SARS and the Novel Coronavirus) and bush meat ((referring only to AIDS) – while ignoring all the many diseases related to factory farming.

        Have you noticed same?

        Regards,

        Vivamus

      1. There are still youtube interviews floating around. Basically, she claims she has genomic evidence that the virus was created in a Wuhan military lab and that it was intentionally put into the human population. But she has never actually presented any concrete evidence.

        1. Thank you for response. Without evidence I will stick with what I think is most likely…. Market in Wuhan bats to pangolins to humans. Consistent with similar hyptotheses for SARS 2002 and MERS 2012 except intermediary hosts were civet cat and camel respectively. Regardless of the source the US has failed at all gov’t levels and medical industry to prepare. Upstream policies in US are banning live food markets and CAFO’s. Since we don’t determine policy in other countries we need to lead by example… at least the next pandemic wouldn’t be “home grown”. Given that our gov’t won’t create policies to protect our citizens. Examples of policies that worked in past… international cooperation which limited Ebola… much easier as it was transmitted by body fluids and not respiratory droplets; closing borders until accurate widespread testing is available and obviously develop ability for wide spread accurate testing. The medical industry will not create healthier populations without chronic conditions. So if the gov’t’s and medical industry don’t respond, individuals need to prepare as mentioned in Dr. Greger’s recent book. Food, water and supplies on hand for up to 90 days. We have been getting off easy so far. Hopefully our luck will hold. Keep tuned on how to eat to lower the risks of chronic conditions as the science continues to change.

          1. Don, The researchers name is Dr Li-Meng Yan. She says she plans to publish more papers on the subject. I’m approaching this with an open mind.

            At this point, all I know is what she said in the video. Some say the video has been removed by Youtube (Google), but the video is of the Fox news show “Tucker Carlson Tonight” broadcast on 9/15/2020 so maybe it’s available somewhere on the Fox News archive site. It was also noted that Dr Yan’s Twitter account was shut down by Twitter. Hmmm.

            1. I did listen to the interview, and she expressed her opinion that the release of the virus was intentional. But I believe that all previous “conspiracy theories” were that this was a terrible accident, but not an unforeseeable one, in a lab with as poor safety protocols as this one reportedly had. I believe that one of the Wuhan Institute of Virology lab workers had actually been identified as the possible Patient 0 as a result of a documented accident with one of the bats. The theory was that after becoming infected from the bodily fluids of the bat, he brought the virus into the nearby wet market when he shopped there, and then the Chinese New Year festivities and travel caused the worldwide spread of the virus. So this had been presented as ineptitude, rather than an intentional action, on the part of the CCP.

              The fact that Twitter promptly shut down Dr Li-Meng Yan’s account after the Tucker Carlson interview and YouTube swiftly removed the video does lend credence to the theory of an intentional release and complicity of the CCP, something that would have never occurred to most people otherwise.

              1. Caroline

                Social media like Twitter and Facebook now have a policy of deleting fake news about Covid 19.

                As far as I am aware, no credible scientific authorities or intelligence services anywhere in the world take this lady’s claims seriously. It’s not like the possibility of a deliberate or accidental lab release hasn’t been considered by scientific bodies and oodles of national intelligence agencies around the globe. Ditto for Dr Li-Meng Yan’s claims.

                1. Fumbles, Regarding your comment: “Social media like Twitter and Facebook now have a policy of deleting fake news about Covid 19.”

                  First of all, you left out Google and Youtube (owned by Google) in your list of companies who censor information. They are going to be offended that they were left off your list ;-)

                  My real concern is: Just who in these companies decides what is “fake” and what is “not-fake”? Do they have some all-knowing unbiased team who knows reality better than the rest of us? Where in the world did they find this exalted group of wise souls?

                  We in the good ole USA like to see all the facts and evidence for ourselves, and then we, as individuals, make the decision on what we choose to believe. We have a 1st Amendment of our Constitution that protects free speech.

                  Now the old excuse is that these these companies are privately owned and the 1st Amendment applies only to gov’t organization censorship. The usual remedy for this situation is that companies that censor information can be sued in a court of law. But unfortunately, Congress has passed laws to prevent that course of action. A case where BIG money talks in my opinion!

                  PS: I do seriously would like to hear your answers to my above questions, because from your posts on this website, you do make some very good points, especially in the area of nutrition.

                  1. Thank you Darwin.

                    I recall that we discussed this lady’s statements a couple of months ago and scientists around the globe then pooh-poohed her claims. There doesn’t appear to be anything new this time around except that it’s now been written down in a formal paper.

                    It seems that entities like YouTube, Facebook etc use a lot of automated processes to delete stories previously fact-checked and found to be false/incorrect. Presumably on the grounds that fake news about Covid 19 is harmful.
                    https://about.fb.com/news/2020/04/covid-19-misinfo-update/

                    1. Thanks for your response, Fumbles. The scientists around the globe may very well be correct. or they may not be correct. I have no idea. But I certainly would like to hear what she has to say. I don’t see how knowing the origin of the Covid-19 virus is going to harm any Covid patient or be a factor in catching the virus.

                      The use of censorship, in general, by Facebook, Youtube, and Twitter, is what’s disturbing. And regarding the Artificial Intelligence these companies are using to censor, the algorithms that drive these systems have many parameters that are ultimately chosen by company officials to obtain a desired result. Some may be based on so called fact checking and some may not. And what’s really scary is that statistical evidence has been collected showing that certain political views are being censored also, which translates to me “election interference”.

                  2. Didn’t read all the comments and I have no opinion on covid information being talked about here, but Facebook, etc. are notoriously biased. It’s actually sickening. Beyond sickening.

      2. Dr. Forester,

        Here ya go:

        Unusual Features of theSARS-CoV-2Genome Suggesting SophisticatedLaboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route
        Li-Meng Yan (MD, PhD)1, Shu Kang (PhD)1, Jie Guan (PhD)1, Shanchang Hu (PhD)1
        September 14, 2020
        Rule of Law Society & Rule of Law Foundation, New York, NY, USA.
        Correspondence: team.lmyan@gmail.com

        https://zenodo.org/record/4028830#.X1_G1mhKg2z

        file:///tmp/mozilla_ua98t0/The_Yan_Report.pdf

        Who these people are, I do not know – a quick search failed – but it might be interesting to know:
        “Rule of Law Society & Rule of Law Foundation, New York, NY, USA”

        Regards,

        Vivamus

        1. Who these people are, I do not know – a quick search failed – but it might be interesting to know:
          “Rule of Law Society & Rule of Law Foundation, New York, NY, USA”

          I think they have been mentioned here before when this story was first discussed a couple of months If I remember correctly, it’s an organisation of primarily strongly anti-Communist ethnic Chinese based in NY and bankrolled by a Chinese multimillionaire. Their hearts may be in the right place but they are not noted for either their even-handedness or their commitment to rigorous, peer reviewed science. I think they have a YouTube channel.if you want to check them out.

          1. Well, this was fun . . .

            I was just exploring the left wing “The Daily Beast” after coming across lots of publications that I do not normally explore – up and down, left and right – due to curiosity after unearthing the Media Bias Graph:
            https://www.adfontesmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Media-Bias-Chart-6.0_Low_Res_Licensed.jpg

            Exploring, I came across an article including the “Rule of Law Society & Rule of Law Foundation.”

            Waddya know!

            Scanning through – the left wing The Daily Beast it and right wing Fox seem to like to trade ideologic blows with one other. All in good fun, I’m sure. ;-)

            I cannot vouch for reliability – reliability seems to be the first thing that people sacrifice when they go ideological – but this is what The Daily Beast have to say about the “Rule of Law Society & Rule of Law Foundation.”

            The following is in regard to Li-Meng Yan’s recent Virus paper:

            “The study is the work of the Rule of Law Society and the Rule of Law Foundation, sister nonprofit organizations that Bannon was instrumental in creating. According to documents posted on the Society’s website last year, he served as that group’s chair. The Bannon connection was first spotted by Kevin Bird, a Ph.D. candidate at Michigan State University, and shared by Carl Bergstrom, a biology professor at the University of Washington, who called the study “bizarre and unfounded.”

            A search of Google Scholar and the Rule of Law Society and Rule of Law Foundation websites indicates that the organizations have not previously published scientific or medical research, and it’s unclear whether the paper received any peer review. It was posted on Monday on the website Zenodo, a publicly available repository of scientific and academic research to which anyone can upload their work.

            ———————

            Unrelated to his work with the Rule of Law groups, Bannon is also facing felony charges over what federal prosecutors say was an effort to extract millions of dollars from a nonprofit seeking to privately finance the construction of a wall on the southern U.S. border. Bannon has pleaded not guilty to the charges.”
            https://www.thedailybeast.com/steve-bannon-linked-groups-push-study-claiming-china-manufactured-covid

            ———————

            Steve Bannon was the former head of Breibart “News,” an extreme right wing web site – thence Chief Strategist to President Donald Trump – seated on National Security Council – and now –

            “On August 20, 2020, a federal grand jury indictment was unsealed against Bannon and three others, charging them with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and money laundering. Each charge has a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison upon conviction.” Wikipedia

            Sounds like these people may all deserve each other.

            Life is interesting –

            Vivamus

    2. If any of you have tried the link I posted above and found that the video has been removed by Youtube (Google), I found the whole Tucker Carlson interview of Dr Li-Meng Yan video on the FoxNews website. Here’s the link:

      https://video.foxnews.com/v/6191302210001#sp=show-clips

      If this link doesn’t work, there is a search tool that should help you find it. Just search for “Tucker Carlson Tonight” with dates between 9/14/2020 and 9/16/2020.

      1. Darwin,

        I have a friend who also frequents right-wing conspiracy news sites – he picks up stuff like this all the time.

        Starting back in January or February.

        Hey – he’s a smart guy. A little whacko – owns 20 guns – worries about the urban hordes attacking his community – but a really good guy to friends and family.

        Who am I to judge?

        He asked me for my take on all this at that time – the Wuhan Institute of Virology Biosafety level 4 Laboratory – breathless with paranoid right-wing fervor – and we, together, calmly walked through a few possibilities:

        (1) Intentional laboratory release, (2) Accidental laboratory release and (3) Market release from wild animals.

        Reasoning as follows: the WHO indicated that this was (3) Market release from wild animals. We entertain this as possible – the WHO is not always, automatically, irrevocably wrong – just usually. But let us go through the stepwise analysis:

        (1) Intentional laboratory release? If you are familiar with ABC Warfare doctrines (Atomic, Bacteriological, Chemical) of different countries, you will be aware that one of the universal concerns in dealing with Bacteriologic Warfare agents is what is now referred to as “friendly fire.” You do not want to load your gun with your terror weapon and then pick it up and shoot yourself in the head.

        This is basic doctrine.

        Not good form.

        Your enemies will laugh at you. Your parents will disinherit. Your wives will sue for divorce. Your children will change their names. Your dog . . .

        No, no, no, no, no.

        What you want is an agent that your own political and military leadership and their families – and your troops – and least importantly, your civilian population – can be immunized against. Or otherwise treated with antibiotics (in the broadest sense of that term – bacteria, virus, fungi – preferably prophylactically) that your enemy does not possess.

        Importantly – and not to be downplayed in importance – you need to develop an effective delivery system to attack your enemy. It must be both “safe” and effective.

        Once you have all that put together – you need to test, test, test –

        Train – your troops.

        And everyone involved needs to practice, practice, practice.

        Then and only then – you stockpile your bacteriologic agent and your vaccines and your antibiotics and your delivery systems – exercise your troops – vaccinate your leadership and their families – and your troops – and you are ready to rock-and-roll.

        This outbreak of the Novel Cornavirus which apparently epicentered at the Wuhan Wet Market, two miles from the Wuhan Institute of Virology Level 4 Biologic Containment Facility – simply does not have the earmarks of an intentional release.

        If this was an intentional release – it has the rest of the world’s ABC specialists shaking their heads in wonder – between breaking out into fits of incredulous laughter and pointing in the direction of Wuhan –

        Shouting “what a bunch of idiots!”

        But the Chinese are not idiots.

        And this is just not how these things are done.

        On the other hand – could it have been human error OR the work of one disgruntled employee?

        Yup.

        That seems to be the sort of thing that is speculated to have happened with the U.S. Anthrax outbreak circa one week after 9/11/2001.

        Look that one up if you like.

        But last time I looked – that case was not conclusively solved.

        ————————————————

        (2) Accidental laboratory release?

        Sounds like it to me.

        Grade 4 Biocontainment laboratories exist because Grade 3 Biocontainment laboratories failed to contain something. So they had to build something better.

        Grade 3 Biocontainment laboratories exist because Grade 2 Biocontainment laboratories failed to contain something. So they had to build something better.

        Etc.

        Do incidents occur involving even the most secure laboratories?

        All the time.

        60% of incidents at these sites are human error. So – you can keep building the next step “secure” lab – Level 5, Level 6, whatever – to the point that the increased physical security of the facility no longer much matters – because you will still be dealing with fallible human beings muckin’ things up.

        My guess is that it may have all gone down something like this . . .

        Buncha different pathogens in different parts of the lab worked on by different researchers – none knowing what the others are doing (no “need to know”) – under all sorts of experimental conditions – including all sorts of genetically modified materials – in petri dishes and in experimental animals – cross contamination –

        Remember – you are only as secure as the weakest link in the chain . . .

        Experiment ended – everything goes in the incinerator up into the air and/or down the sink. Into the air (remember the Sverd-
        lovsk biological weapons accident? Anthrax – ~100 reported deaths)) or the sewerage system (remember Amoy Gardens Apartment complex – spread of SARS by aerosolized sewage – killed – any one remember? – I think it was 34 people).

        ————————

        (3) Market release from wild game.

        Most likely.

        We have the civet cat connection with SARS, the camel connection with MERS, and the bat connection with the Novel Coronavirus.

        Occam’s Razor: end of story.

        There may be no real need to look for other causes – unless there is evidence to the contrary.

        The current “evidence” for alternative explanations – awaits peer review.

        —————————————-

        Summing up: I will go by instinct – make of it what you will – in order of likelihood of the origins of the Novel Cornaovirus:

        (1) Market release from wild animals – looks like a classic case to me. Almost open and shut.

        (2) Accidental laboratory release – looks like a possible classic case to me. I’ll believe it when we have something approaching proof – not just the typical paranoid blatherings of another silly paranoid right wing news site.

        (3) Intentional laboratory release from a disgruntled employee – only to be entertained if you have actual proof. People usually only come up with such explanations when they do not want to face real but otherwise more straightforward explanations. Witness the blame heaped on Clayton Hartwig in the original investigation of the USS Iowa turret explosion.

        (4) Intentional laboratory release as a matter of military or state policy?

        Insane.

        Not even worth entertaining.

        All.

        All the best –

        Vivamus

        ————————————————

        Do accidents happen at Biocontainment Laboratories?

        Yup. All the time.

        Here’s a favorite of mine – from a favorite source:

        “In 1992 Russian leader Boris Yeltsin admitted in pri-
        vate conversations with President George H Bush that
        the KGB and military had misrepresented the anthrax
        deaths. Subsequently, in a press release, Yeltsin admit-
        ted to the offensive program and the origin of the Sverd-
        lovsk biological weapons accident. Additionally, retired
        Soviet general Andrey Mironyuk disclosed that safety
        filters had not been activated on the fateful morning in
        early April 1979, resulting in the escape of aerosolized
        B anthracis and the ensuing epidemic. 73 Soviet defectors,
        including Ken Alibek, first deputy chief of Biopreparat
        from 1988 to 1992, confirmed that not only was the
        Sverdlovsk epidemic caused by an accidental release
        of spores from a biological weapons production plant,
        but also that the Soviet biological warfare program
        had been massive. 59 In September 1992 Russia entered
        an agreement with the United States and the United
        Kingdom that acknowledged a biological weapons
        program inherited from the Soviet Union, committed
        to its termination, and agreed to onsite inspections.
        The United States assisted the Russian Federation and
        other former Soviet republics through the Nunn-Lugar
        Biological Threat Reduction Program (later called the
        Cooperative Biological Engagement Program).”

        Medical Aspects of Biological Warfare
        Textbooks of Military Medicine
        Office of The Surgeon General
        989 pages
        2018
        https://fas.org/irp/threat/cbw/medical.pdf

        —————————————–

        Oh – and this sort of thing may have all happened in China before.

        Remember – with these things you always have to test, test, test:

        “The most senior defector from the Soviet germ warfare program says in a new book that Soviet officials concluded that China had suffered a serious accident at one of its secret plants for developing biological weapons, causing two major epidemics.

        The book also reports that Soviet researchers tried to turn H.I.V., the virus that causes AIDS, into a weapon and that even as the last Soviet President, Mikhail S. Gorbachev, pursued peace openings with the West, he ordered a vast expansion of the deadly effort to turn germs and viruses into weapons of mass destruction.

        The defector, Kanatjan Alibekov, now known as Ken Alibek, says in the book that as deputy director of a top branch of the Soviet program, he knew of the disaster in China because he saw secret Soviet intelligence reports twice a month.

        Spy satellites peering down at China found what seemed to be a large biological weapons laboratory and plant near a remote site for testing nuclear warheads, he wrote. Intelligence agents then found evidence that two epidemics of hemorrhagic fever swept the region in the late 1980’s. The area had never previously known such diseases, which cause profuse bleeding and death.

        ”Our analysts,” Dr. Alibek said, ”concluded that they were caused by an accident in a lab where Chinese scientists were weaponizing viral diseases.” Viral scourges that cause intense bleeding include Marburg fever and the dreaded Ebola virus. Both are endemic to Africa.”

        1999

        ——————————————

        https://www.nytimes.com/1999/04/05/world/soviet-defector-says-china-had-accident-at-a-germ-plant.html

        https://wjla.com/news/local/cdc-shut-down-army-germ-lab-health-concerns

        https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/09/updated-university-chicago-microbiologist-infected-possible-lab-accident

        https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/07/lab-incidents-lead-safety-crackdown-cdc

        https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/nearly-400-accidents-with-dangerous-pathogens-and-bio-toxins-reported-in-u-s-labs-over-seven-years/

        1. Vivamus,

          Regarding your comment: “I have a friend who also frequents right-wing conspiracy news sites – he picks up stuff like this all the time.
          Hey – he’s a smart guy. A little whacko – owns 20 guns – worries about the urban hordes attacking his community – but a really good guy to friends and family. Who am I to judge?”

          It just so happens that I have a friend who also frequents Left-wing conspiracy news sites just like you ( CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, NPR, The Hill, …) – he picks up misinformation all the time.

          Hey – he’s a smart guy. A little whacko – owns 20 guns, commercial fireworks and other arson materials, high powered lasers – worries about the current president ruining the country – he would rather destroy the country than let this evil person be re-elected – but he’s a really good guy to friends and family. Who am I to judge?

          The rest of your post seems irrelevant to me so I stopped reading about half way through. I don’t think we will ever know the “truth” on this one.

          1. “It just so happens that I have a friend who also frequents Left-wing conspiracy news sites just like you ( CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, NPR, The Hill, …) – he picks up misinformation all the time. ”

            Media Bias Chart 2017:
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_Fontes_Media#/media/File:Second-Edition-News-Chart.V2.jpg

            Media Bias Chart 2018:
            https://library.fvtc.edu/News/BiasCheck

            Media Bias Chart, version 6.0:
            https://www.adfontesmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Media-Bias-Chart-6.0_Low_Res_Licensed.jpg

            How a popular media bias chart determines what news can be trusted
            http://gatewayjr.org/how-a-popular-media-bias-chart-determines-what-news-can-be-trusted/

            Vivamus

            1. Vivamus,

              Anyone can create a “media bias chart’. Who’s to say that the chart creators are not themselves biased!

              Let’s look at some reality statictics:

              Fox News had the top five most-watched cable news programs during the first quarter of 2020.

              Notably for Fox News, “Tucker Carlson Tonight” delivered the highest viewership in cable news history, breaking the previous record, set the previous quarter by Carlson’s colleague Sean Hannity.

              With the coronavirus pandemic increasingly taking up much of the media’s focus, prime-time hosts Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson had the top two shows, averaging more than 4 million viewers a night, according to Nielsen Media Research.

              The Five, which starts at 5 p.m. ET; Laura Ingraham’s evening program, which airs at 10 p.m.; and news anchor Bret Baier’s program, which airs at 6 p.m., rounded out the top five. Each program averaged more than 3 million viewers. These five shows also finished in the top five of the key 25-54 age demographic, which helps determine ad rates.

              MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow, who in recent quarters competed for the top-rated show against Hannity and Carlson, slipped out of the top five to sixth place. Her show also dropped an additional spot in the 25-54 age demographic, behind Fox News’s The Story with Martha MacCallum, which airs at 7 p.m. ET.

              https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/fox-news-sweeps-top-five-most-watched-cable-news-programs-for-first-quarter-of-2020

  1. My favorite part about this one is how well the group that just changed their diets did.

    But I am sure that the people who fasted felt more relief and more proud of themselves and had a greater sense of accomplishment and things like that.

    I say that as a person who has fasted for spiritual reasons. There is a similar sense of accomplishment as climbing a mountain.

    I wonder how much that affects how much of a placebo effect there is.

    My Persuasion class professor would say that the greater the cost and sacrifice something has, the higher the perceived satisfaction. Volunteers and low paid employees versus people who got paid high wages for the same job, it was the low and no pay who valued the job more. Low paid employees increased the sense of value of the job as a way to feel like their own lives had meaning. Same with women who were abused. Obviously, that is a negative example, but that is the whole point. The mind needs to justify why they are putting up with the suffering.

  2. I would say that the masses would do anything to avoid fasting but the people who do it successfully will be more emotionally bonded to it because it is harder to do and it shows them who they are and disconnects them from things that seem less important after.

    1. So, Deb, I’ve heard many comments to the effect that the way I eat — whole plant foods, avoiding animal products as well as purchased processed and prepared foods — is unsustainable, a deprivation diet, that they themselves could never do it. By your logic, I and others who eat whole plant food diets should feel more emotionally bonded to it because it’s apparently harder to do, at least according to others.

      And that’s a shame, because it’s not unsustainable, a deprivation diet, and everybody could do it. It’s not harder to do. And the food is delicious! That last is certainly emotionally bonding.

      And I hope that many more folks try it. And like it.

      1. Dr. J.

        Smiling.

        I just listed all of the emotional bonds I have with fasting.

        That being said, I have exceedingly bonded to WFPB and vegan in terms of the environment and welfare of the animals, along with the doctors.

        Even if I don’t personally know other people doing this process.

        My friend has bonded with Dr. Fung and fasting and keto the same way I have bonded with Dr. Greger.

        This study is one where I would need to know what is going through the minds of both groups.

        If one group was made up of ethical vegans, that could change their answers, too.

        Even watching Forks Over Knives causes such deep emotion that it would be hard to get an objective self-report.

  3. Also, looking at the list of the hundreds of people having those symptoms, what I remember is that Dr. Goldhammer said that people feel like they are dying and the relief after not dying is way higher.

    My father is still barely able to walk after his surgery and going home – even though he was highly athletic for years before – but the relief that he didn’t have cancer and that he didn’t have COVID and that his surgery is over is way higher than if he hadn’t gone through anything.

    He experienced more than one life flashes before his eyes experience.

    The thing is, a month later, he still couldn’t walk from the parking lot into a Walgreens where 6 weeks ago he was playing tennis and swimming and walking and going into the gym every day and those healthy behaviors gave him a sense of accomplishment but surgery, even though it has taken away from his physical fitness, impacted him more.

    1. Another thing I add is that they didn’t check to see who was spiritual alongside of it nor did they check who had a lifelong belief in fasting as a superior way to do things.

      I would think that they needed to know if people fasted regularly with Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Taoism, Jainism, Hinduism or as part of a health regime.

      The fact that religions might be believing that they are going to get healed from interacting with God might affect something.

      And people convey the feeling of superiority around health practices they believe in. Fasting is one. People who are into often decree “autophagy” as a powerful belief system with almost a religious fervor.

      I am not trying to put fasting down when I say that.

      Apricot kernels have the same fervency and testimonials and it is crucial to the people that fasting be seen as important because fasting is in that “methods to cure cancer” and “methods to reverse aging” and is exalted as such.

      The “reverse aging” and “cure cancer” and “reverse diabetes” are all almost rites of passage.

      1. I am obviously not a scientist, nor do I study psychology.

        I just say it because in Christianity and in Judaism as represented in the Christian Bible, people feel spiritually superior and closer to God and more important when they fast and that does happen. There are Christians who are very sincerely fasting as a way to break off the power of the flesh or to be obedient to God and then there are those who feel like “good Christians” for fasting and then, there are those who feel like “Better than” Christians because they fast longer and I knew one person who was in a cult type Christian-ish group and they would fast for 70 days because if a little is good, more is better, and they were the most superior of all. And, yes, I am going to have to take all of the logs out of my own eyes soon, but I did feel like if they don’t know what is going on inside of the people fasting, the self-reported information could have way more bias than normal.

        1. I am going to add in Gandhi, who I love, but he adds fasting as a superior political, nonviolent resistance movement.

          Pre becoming a Christian, he was who I identified fasting with and it was so important and so successful that I still think of him whenever I even think about fasting. Gandhi and Jesus are already SO BIG and then reverse cancer, reversing aging is like this thing of legend – the fountain of Youth – type experience.

          1. I watched the Woodstock documentary last week and that concert is so important to a generation of people who were of a certain age back then. It was life and death.

            Fasting, in the churches I was being in obedience to God. It was power in the Christian walk. It was power over the flesh. Collectively, we did so many long fasts that it was also part of bonding with my friends in the church and so many sweet memories were of collective fasting and prayer seasons.

            I feel like I would sing, “I’ve looked at fasting from both sides now from spiritual and political and health and placebo effects and it is fastings illusions I recall I really don’t know how powerful fasting is at all.”

            1. Okay, sorry for the multiple posts.

              I genuinely believe fasting is a tool to change me and to change the world.

              I guess I expected an exponentially bigger placebo effect in a self-report study.

            2. “I watched the Woodstock documentary last week and that concert is so important to a generation of people who were of a certain age back then. It was life and death.”

              Deb,

              Woodstock really wasn’t that big a deal. Don’t fall for the hype: you are getting the revised version.

              I put it far below Big Bad John, Puff the Magic Dragon, ducking under the school desk during disaster drills, The Beatles, girls in miniskirts (ah – girls in miniskirts . . . ), man on the moon, body counts on the nightly news, November 15, 1969, May 4, 1970, first love, abortion becoming legal, Watergate, draft day – and a hundred other things that happened.

              Probably on par with Jesus Christ, Superstar. But below Alice’s Restaurant, Hair, and the original movie M*A*S*H* (NOT to be mistaken with the television version).

              The time of the Novel Coronavirus, however – eclipses them all (well – except for memories of the girls).

              Coronavirus is up there with “where were you when Kennedy was shot?”

              I remember.

              Deb.

              Enjoy life fully –

              Vivamus

              1. Laughing.

                I was in the middle of my families cultural wars even back then and I was closer to a hippie.

                I drove across country 5 times listening to Jesus Christ Superstar and the soundtrack for Hair and Alice’s Restaurant Massacre and also listened to all of the musicians that were at Woodstock and the Grateful Dead and reading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and 100 Years of Solitude and Electric Koolaid Acid Test and I wanted to be The Peace Pilgrim or Mother Teresa or something peaceful and loving and kind and I wanted to help poor people and save lives.

                But I ALSO highly respected and valued my responsible relatives and always had relatives who were police officers and dispatchers and nurses and soldiers who fought in places like Iwo Jima and wanted to make them proud and be like them, too.

                If I could have split myself in half or six or seven pieces and experienced all of it, I would have.

                As far as Woodstock being overrated. It deeply, deeply, deeply influenced a generation. So many youth who wanted to resist war and greed and wanted to have love and freedom and kindness demonstrated what it might look like. And maybe ignored all the laws they broke and the fact that they were being taken care of left and right while other people were sacrificing are all things I have wrestled with so deeply that I have pinned myself from every side of my personality and had to fly the white flag.

                I watched a young person stay a Grateful Dead-head and have 5 children most out of wedlock and he died by 40 and so did my friend from high school who stayed a hippie, nudist, pot-smoker, very poor, nearly unemployable person both died of bad decisions. My high school friend, had met an amazingly kind-hearted man working in a homeless shelter and married him, but got bored and was dead within 2 years after she left him.

                It is so painful to be between the cultures and to deeply understand the strengths and weaknesses of each culture and not fit in either by the end.

                Anyway, my parents hated Woodstock with a vengeance and I didn’t go and wrestled with wanting to be a part of history but also not wanting to end up arrested surrounded by pot-smoking nudists.

                But I understood the “1,2,3 what are we fighting for?” message and I think women in wars long before that already just tended to be, “Can’t we all get along?”

            3. “I watched the Woodstock documentary last week and that concert is so important to a generation of people who were of a certain age back then. It was life and death.”

              2 babies born, 2 people died, 8 miscarriages.

              It was a drug filled weekend in a crowded muddy field with limited sanitation, water and food. Oh, by the way there was good music.

              1. Yes cp, a bunch of stoners that totally trashed the neighbourhood. The fields were ruined. What a mess.
                And yes, the music was good but I prefer Vivamus’ memories of that era.

                  1. I think that it was watching all sorts of abuse of power on television every day.

                    I have watched so many documentaries on those eras and it is so humiliating and frustrating even decades later that humanity was treated so poorly.

                    1. I think it is similar to the misuse of the environment and abuse of animals today. There is only a small group noticing it so far, but someday that group will get so frustrated that they demand a voice.

  4. Hi Dr. Gregor: Please review “The Phoenix Protocol” and the Russian Dr’s noted findings. August Dunning of “TPP” the author goes into scientific detail on the difference between a “water diet” vs “dry fast” and why the length of time on a dry fast matters.

    This is of great interest to me as I have been recently diagnosed with MDS (Myelodysplastic Syndrome – version Chromosome 5 foot deletion – resulting in the formation of deformed red bloods cells too large to leave the marrow). (Note as well: I’m refusing Revlimid – and for those that don’t know – Revlimid is a re-structured version of Thalidomide – remember the 50’60’s and the babies born without limbs? – Thalidomide, so NO..not trusting that company or it’s claims (drug released knowing of these side effects – shame on all accounts and onto all involved).

    “Dry Fast” will create new (before editing) stem cells (last attempt to prolong life with MDS is a bone marrow transplant) and “Fisetin” of “Cytolyfe” helps to eliminates senescent cells. I will begin my dry fast October 5th 2020. Too much to quote here…read the book folks…shall post here if I am successful and MDS is cured. Namaste, be safe and healthy everyone.

  5. It cracks me up that many of my friends find it easier to fast for a few days than to eat only healthy foods for one day. I would prefer fruits and veggies aka vitamins and antioxidants to.. nothing. Then again, it takes time to get acquainted and accustomed to healthy eating. If fasting somehow helps transitioning to a healthy diet more quickly, that’s great. But this can only work if people who fast also educate themselves regarding health. It’s fine to expirience the clarity of fasting but you should try and compare it to the clarity and energy of eating a lot of fruits and veggies. By definition, healthy eating combines the best of all worlds.

    In contrast to wolves in winter, primates have evolved to eat nutrient rich food for many hours every day of the year. If one is able to eat healthy, it will always be better than not eating at all. Only animals fats are rich in toxins and there is no need to avoid organic veggies to detox. In fact, fruits and veggies speed up detoxification of eg lead, as Dr Gregory has been pointing out.
    https://www.epa.gov/dioxin/learn-about-dioxin

      1. The last time I was at the gym was in February and my friend Jim Naysium had a tee shirt on that said, weights before dates,
        but I said yeah, in the dictionary dates come before weights.

  6. ABOUT CLA:

    My thanks to the person who posted a link to Examine.com and my apologies for losing your name.

    I carefully read the abstract to a study about CLA and cholesterol attached at examine.com.

    PROBLEM: The abstract clearly states they tested “supplementation.” Not mentioned was the brand,
    nor did they test the (capsules?) to see how much of each variety of CLA was in the capsules. This is important
    because there was at least one study which showed that one variety of CLA did reduce cholesterol in
    hamsters. But the abstract said nothing about that variety.

    And of course my own anecdotal experience that my cholesterol dropped from 170 to 140 when I switched to
    100% grass fed beef.

  7. Query to what extent the purported benefits of fasting are due to methionine restriction. Dr. Greger addressed methionine restriction as a life extension strategy back in 2013. https://nutritionfacts.org/video/methionine-restriction-as-a-life-extension-strategy/

    Here is a recent summary:
    Lifespan and metabolic health are influenced by dietary nutrients. Recent studies show that a reduced protein intake or low-protein/high-carbohydrate diet plays a critical role in longevity/metabolic health. Additionally, specific amino acids (AAs), including methionine or branched-chain AAs (BCAAs), are associated with the regulation of lifespan/ageing and metabolism through multiple mechanisms. Therefore, methionine or BCAAs restriction may lead to the benefits on longevity/metabolic health. Moreover, epidemiological studies show that a high intake of animal protein, particularly red meat, which contains high levels of methionine and BCAAs, may be related to the promotion of age-related diseases. Therefore, a low animal protein diet, particularly a diet low in red meat, may provide health benefits. However, malnutrition, including sarcopenia/frailty due to inadequate protein intake, is harmful to longevity/metabolic health. Therefore, further study is necessary to elucidate the specific restriction levels of individual AAs that are most effective for longevity/metabolic health in humans. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6562018/

    Sadly, the COVID-19 pandemic could have been used to promote a low methionine mostly vegan diet together with calls to end wet markets and factory farming of animals which promote such pandemics, and unity with the message that a vegan diet is necessary to minimize diet-related environmental impacts. Curiously, this message did come from China’s “bat woman” Shi Zhengli. Shi is the person at the center of gain-of-function research and study of bat coronaviruses at the Wuhan biosafety lab receiving recent scrutiny, China’s only laboratory with the highest P4 level of protection. “Shi Zhengli, a researcher from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, said on social media on Sunday [Feb 2] that the virus was the result of ‘nature punishing the uncivilized habits and customs of humans'”,https://covid-19.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202002/03/WS5f1e9e1fa31083481725c517.html

    “In the long run, the Wuhan team plans to develop broad-spectrum vaccines and drugs against coronaviruses deemed risky to humans. ‘The Wuhan outbreak is a wake-up call,’ Shi says….Shi says, ‘wildlife trade and consumption are only part of problem.’ In late 2016 pigs across four farms in Qingyuan County in Guangdong—60 miles from the site where the SARS outbreak originated—suffered from acute vomiting and diarrhea, and nearly 25,000 of the animals died. Local veterinarians called Shi for help. The cause of the illness—swine acute diarrhea syndrome (SADS)—turned out to be a virus whose genomic sequence was 98 percent identical to that of a coronavirus found in horseshoe bats in a nearby cave.” https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/

    A Chinese official raised questions about the virus emerging from the Huanan seafood market in Wuhan. “At first, we assumed the seafood market might have the virus, but now the market is more like a victim. The novel coronavirus had existed long before,” Gao Fu, director of the Chinese Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said. Gao said he had gone to Wuhan to collect samples for COVID-19 researchers in early January, but no viruses were detected in the animal samples. Viruses were only found in environmental samples, including sewage, he said.

    1. Thanks… I like the quote, “Nature punishing the uncivilized habits and customs of humans”. Reductionistic science will most likely determine the ultimate “source”. We have enough information to inform our institutions and individuals how to protect themselves.

    2. Caroline,

      Did you hear that sales of vegan foods have jumped 265% since COVID?

      https://thebeet.com/consumers-are-choosing-more-vegan-food-during-covid-19-expert-says/

      I am overwhelmed by how many vegan meals are in the grocery store now and I am not talking Whole Foods.

      Every major brand is putting things on the shelves. Not exactly WFPB but it will go a long, long, long way to lowering cholesterol and saturated fats and to increase the intake of vegetables.

  8. When fasting is not a choice, it’s starvation, which may be the reality in the not too distant future://www.propublica.org/article/climate-change-will-force-a-new-american-migration

    1. George,

      A very powerful article.

      Both my brother and I moved South -> North over the last twenty years.

      Droughts. Tornadoes where there never were tornadoes before. This was not the South we knew.

      It seemed time.

      Looks like we were ahead of the game.

      Sent your article with two people who are about to unload real estate into a crazy up market.

      Now thinking – what if the crazy hot market locally is permanent (ala Southern California) and they should hold?

      Fear vs. Greed.

      Thank you for posting a great piece of journalism.

      Interesting times –

      Vivamus

      —————————–

      “What Van Leer saw when he walked through Coffey Park a week after the Tubbs Fire changed the way he would model and project fire risk forever. Typically, fire would spread along the ground, burning maybe 50% of structures. In Santa Rosa, more than 90% had been leveled. “The destruction was complete,” he told me. Van Leer determined that the fire had jumped through the forest canopy, spawning 70-mile-per-hour winds that kicked a storm of embers into the modest homes of Coffey Park, which burned at an acre a second as homes ignited spontaneously from the radiant heat. It was the kind of thing that might never have been possible if California’s autumn winds weren’t getting fiercer and drier every year, colliding with intensifying, climate-driven heat and ever-expanding development. “It’s hard to forecast something you’ve never seen before,” he said.”

      “The millions of people moving north will mostly head to the cities of the Northeast and Northwest, which will see their populations grow by roughly 10%, according to one model. Once-chilly places like Minnesota and Michigan and Vermont will become more temperate, verdant and inviting. Vast regions will prosper; just as Hsiang’s research forecast that Southern counties could see a tenth of their economy dry up, he projects that others as far as North Dakota and Minnesota will enjoy a corresponding expansion. Cities like Detroit; Rochester, New York; Buffalo and Milwaukee will see a renaissance, with their excess capacity in infrastructure, water supplies and highways once again put to good use. One day, it’s possible that a high-speed rail line could race across the Dakotas, through Idaho’s up-and-coming wine country and the country’s new breadbasket along the Canadian border, to the megalopolis of Seattle, which by then has nearly merged with Vancouver to its north.”

  9. Dan,

    I was looking at electric golf carts and scooters and anything smaller than a car and with more wheels than a bike.

    I found this one. It isn’t the one, but boy it is going in the right direction.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuMg0QwKAGI&ab_channel=JerryRigEverything

    We have extensive walking trails to most of the towns surrounding me and I like to walk but the concept of being able to get to the grocery store and back up the hill with groceries and not have a gas bill is in my future list.

    Leasing an electric car may be the way to go eventually. The cart or car or scooter or three-wheel bike or something like this would be down the road. Not yet.

    I don’t need it yet but not having car insurance or gas for the car or taxes on a car is on my dream list.

    By the time I get to that part of my list, there will be something probably by this person.

    I just don’t like the getting on and off part but I have faith that he will come up with something.

  10. The show on slime on Nova is quite fascinating.

    I have watched a few shows on the intelligence of slime molds and of plants.

    That would be such an interesting conversation to have with vegans.

    As a young person I developed a fear of plants having pain. I wonder if that is what drew me to junk food.

    Botfriends and friends never understood that I hated receiving flowers. I would be polite but my internal response was, ”Did you kill some flowers for me? And honestly my mind would watch them die rather than watch their beauty.

    Plants definitely do process information and have intelligence and memory and communication.

    Yes, I will still eat them but I had watched a documentary years ago that really causes me to be more aware that a living thing with intelligence and memory has been sacrificed for my sake.

    If I didn’t like food so much I could have really had a starvation oriented eating disorder.

    1. Pumpkin seeds have a lot of zinc in them. Zinc is good for anorexia. Maybe it’s the zinc and other more superior nutrients in it. Dr. Greger has a video on zinc lozenges, presumably for covid. Maybe the classical zinc deficiency has an anorexia component to it.

    2. Deb,
      I just watched the Slime, Nova program. Leads me to wonder how a simple organism (?) can have complex behavior. I also wonder at living things. I try not to step on the wildflower weeds when running. These same flowers attract bees which make a buzzing sound. The flowers have a smell. Everything is connected.

  11. I was surprised the the good doctor did not mention any of the studies conducted at True North Health Center. They have a large testing base with published studies on fasting.

    1. Larry, actually Dr Greger did mention the studies out of True North center in his comparison of water fasting, with that of having water and a cup of veg broth and fruit juice in the european study. One of the sources he used is linked below.
      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29458369/

      This is just one of the videos on fasting… others are linked under ” Doctor’s Notes”, above, and at the previous video shown this past monday. It’s been a while since I viewed them, but I believe at least one featured a study from the True North center.

        1. Thanks for the link Deb, … really great. I so enjoy Mic’s videos. He’s bright, well spoken, entertaining, and he maintains a sense of humor through it all.

    1. Barb,

      But, having to pay bills with no money left for food has a lot to do with it.

      I hear ya. So many millions, maybe billions of people are in that position.

      I have been a level above that, but electric bills doubling and the reality that my taxes might go up significantly to pay for the new laws regarding the police and the fact that the high school near me wants a fancy new building have put me into motion.

      But my friends have been homeless and have had seasons with no transportation and no electricity and no air conditioning and I just do pray for all of us for the future.

      1. I have worked so hard to get rid of my utilities, but I know that taxes are going to be going up above the utilities that I am getting rid of.

        But that is why I have to actually get rid of utilities.

        For decades you could buy an old car for a few hundred dollars and now people are spending more than my yearly salary for a vehicle. Then, they are paying insurance, taxes, registration, and the repair bills are over 1,000. I had my car in for repair yesterday and the price for “storing a car outside” was over $1000 per night. People who have trouble losing their car over the $1000 repair will have to abandon the car rather than wait 2 days for their paycheck.

        1. Yes Deb, it’s frightening. The groceries is the only category where there is some flexibility. I had 3 months recently of having unexpected big bill to pay… like dentist, mechanic etc.

          However, I am giving thought to what kind of meals I can create for next to nothing. Lots of resources available on the net, and I am an astute shopper so all is not lost, yet.

    2. I think Iodine from seaweed can treat stomach pain. I think Iodine is what the body uses for hydroiodic acid. Iodine from seaweed which Dr. Greger recommends taking is good for pain. I have heard there is stomach pain in some diseases. Take seaweed for pain.

      1. Matthew,

        Do you have a study link you would like to share or is it anecdotal?

        I do use seaweed for iodine. (But I forget for a few months or 6 months. I have seaweed snacks and seaweed sprinkles but mostly ate it in Miso, but I have not made Miso since my Instant Pot sprayed it all over my cabinets and my ceiling and there was only about a cup left in the pot, so I am not sure how much seaweed I actually got then.)

        Thanks for the reminder that I probably need some.

  12. Hello Dr. Greger. I was wondering, if you could make a video about the benefits of fulvic and humic acids. Or if you have any studies on it, I would love to know your view on this. Thank you so much!

  13. Hi,

    My question is not related to fasting, but I’m concern about my buckwheat flour consumption. I like it so much, I eat one cup as pankake every morning.
    But, I’m really tired and low on energy since some years (I use to be really energetic) and I wonder if buckwheat can be the cause of my problem.

    Do somebody know about this cereal/plant ?

    Thank you so much for your time and help.

    1. Unless you have a specific buckwheat allergy (and that is rare), buckwheat is unlikely to be the problem.

      Most people make pancakes with milk, sugar, butter and eggs and they are much more likely to be problematic.

      However, the best advice is to get yourself checked out by your local GP/PCP/MD. There are very many possible causes for your condition. it’s much better to have a trained professional make an assessment than to rely on the internet for advice.

      1. Thanks for your advice Mr Fumblefingers,

        I make my pancakes with only water and flour, so it can’t be eggs or milk.

        I’ve also been checked by my clinic with many blood test and they found nothing. That’s why I’m now investigating in my alimentation.

  14. I was thinking about this video tonight and I looked up to see if there was a health history with health gurus on top of spiritual and protest and there were movements in many countries. The Hygiene movement is one that has been mentioned by Dr Fuhrman as one where the people developed Parkinson’s even though they went vegan and apparently they were people who fasted, too. There was a Dr. Shelton who claimed to have healed 40,000 people with water fasting.

    I look at the study again and it just seems like we have God, Medical Gurus, Gandhi, the Suffragettes, and health movements in several countries and the thing even with modern doctors, once people start following them, they have such a strong internal bias that I really would have expected the results of self-report to have had a lot of bias and more like the autism and dairy type studies.

    As a Christian, I know that Christians would see “fasting” and would immediately be proud of God. Same with the Buddhists – proud of the monks. Same with the Orthodox Jews and other groups.

    Nope, I guess I feel like even longevity being a mythical topic that is so prone to romanticize and elevate, and how cancer has done the same thing with the Hunza’s.

    I just would have expected so much bias that I would have expected a much larger difference.

  15. Anyone honest enough to say that they were proud that

    Gandhi was wise enough to fast.
    Buddhist monks
    Jesus
    Esther
    Mohammed

    Or that their favorite doctor backs it?

    Anyone proud of the Hunza’s?

    Or that they were eating healthy and knew what the Hygiene movement was while everybody else was stuffing their faces with pizza?

    Anyone thrilled with the Shangri-La mythology? He She We? Endlessly searching for Camelot?

    Still reading as science catches up with science fiction?

    Anybody used the word, “Autophagy” as a weapon or said a sentence like Dr. Fung is smarter than Dr. Greger or some ridiculous statement like that?

    1. How about Hippocrates?

      Anybody proud that someone around them took the Hippocratic oath?

      Proud maybe because of history stories?

      Hippocrates talked about fasting.

      I say these things and I have seen people proud of their country for believing in fasting from Germany.

      1. There is so much pride in Eastern versus Western medicine and who understood fasting first is a thing.

        Hearing stories of the suffragettes, I was proud of them for being so strong that they fasted.

        Other than vegan and the environment and proud of being health-oriented, fasting had so many personal examples for me that if I hadn’t fallen at the Supreme court and hit my head on the concrete I might be posting all the list of proof of it especially since I am a regenerative medicine fan.

        I would likely have been so biased that I couldn’t have been in the study.

  16. Also, when you fast, all you think about is fasting and it is a right of passage dealing with mortality versus when you eat a healthy meal some people would just think, ”This isn’t so bad.” or that they hate the food.

  17. I looked up New Age and they have fasting centers labeled new age.

    The thing is no genuine Christian would say that fasting doesn’t work.

    It is a belied system.

    Plus, many Vhristians would not say anything negative about their health because life and death is in the power of the tongue and verses like let the weak say I am strong.

    They would declare healing by faith, not site.

    So would New Age.

    I feel like the study is like looking at the tips of icebergs sticking out of the water.

  18. I’ve actually done the Buchinger Clinic fast in Germany for a few weeks. I felt fantastic during the fast, but the refeed nearly killed me. I was wired for weeks afterwards. They have you break the fast with an (unripe) apple. I threw it up. Then they feed you MUESLI for breakfast. That gagged me, too. They gave me a packed lunch of another (unripe) apple and ONE walnut to take on the drive back home.

    I wish someone would do a follow up study about the after effects and the refeed, as there are so many people who have issues afterwards. This never seems to be discussed or studied.

    1. JB, I raised that topic in my comments towards the beginning of this forum. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6314618/?report=classic

      Not sure if you read the study itself but, they say (under the Heading “Methods and Materials”, Fasting Program) that program participants started to refeed on the last day with a lacto-ovo organic vegetarian diet. They were refed over 4 days gradually increasing calories from 800 to 1600 calories.

      Now, that was from the study… not debating about your personal experience at all. I think that having researched this topic, it would be one of the first questions I would ask a center if I was to attend. If they couldn’t/wouldn’t refeed properly, I would either continue the fast until I returned home to refeed properly, or decide not to attend at all.

      It is a good point you raise JB, that if people are going to fast at home, giving thought to coming off of the fast is very important.

      1. Dear Barb,

        Thank you for the link and this information. Yes, they definitely recommend a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet in their cooking classes, but I thought their food choices to break my fast were absolutely bizarre. I had wanted to continue fasting at home and then break it slowly with green juice or veg broth, but my doctor there had insisted I break it at their clinic because I would be driving for a few hours to get home. Honestly, I could have driven while fasted, no problems. My energy level was off the charts. Instead they had me break my fast the night before I left the clinic. That was when they gave me the (unripe) apple to be chewed slowly. I had wished it would have been just a green juice instead, but I had no say in the matter.

        I would strongly suggest that anyone who attends the Buchinger Clinic to check up front for their “Break Fast protocol.”

        It is my dream to some day attend the Viva Mayr Clinic in Austria, or TrueNorth in California. That would be wonderful. Maybe Dr. Greger and NF.org could start their own clinic?! just an idea….. :)

        Warm regards,
        JB

        1. JB, I agree totally with your ideas here. In fact, I have been perusing the web for green smoothie recipes etc in case i embark on another fast at home. In the video I posted the other day with Rich Roll and Alan Goldhamer discussing fasting, they did mention refeeding in a precise way.
          I however wanted recipes lol.. so I may check chef AJ’s videos for suggestions.

          I second your motion in asking Dr Greger to look at pitfalls of incorrect refeeding. And yes, open a clinic while he’s at it. lol

          1. I was hoping for recipes from Dr Goldhamer, too! Yeah, I think there is still a lot of research to be done when it comes to refeeds. I know of a lot of people who have ended up messed up from extended fasting. I think the safest fasting length for (at-home) fasting is probably 36 hours – at least from everything I’ve ever read or tried for myself. I feel great doing 24s at the moment… Take care, and happy fasting!! Xx

  19. is the 250 calories restrictive diet and benefits derived as well from a non vegan diet ? so can one argue eating a burger of 250 calories per day the same as the vegetable broth mentioned ?

  20. No that 250 calories per day did not include burgers so you definitely cannot conclude that eating a burger of 250 calories would confer the same benefits as the vegetable broth. That would be another study! Here is the protocol for the study referred to:
    Safety, health improvement and well-being during a 4 to 21-day fasting period in an observational study including 1422 subjects https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6314618/
    “All subjects fasted according to the guidelines of the Buchinger fasting therapy… During fasting all subjects were asked to drink 3 L of water or non-caloric herbal teas daily with an optional portion of 20 g honey. Additionally, an organic freshly squeezed fruit or vegetable juice (250 ml) was served at noon and a vegetable soup (250 ml) in the evening, leading to an average total calorie intake of 200–250 kcal and 25–35 g of carbohydrates per day. “
    include Safety, health improvement and well-being during a 4 to 21-day fasting period in an observational study including 1422 subjects

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