How to Lower Heavy Metal Levels with Diet

How to Lower Heavy Metal Levels with Diet
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What dietary change can simultaneously help detoxify mercury, lead, and cadmium from the body?

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

We’ve previously explored the issue of lead contamination in calcium supplements like bonemeal, but it wasn’t just bonemeal. Substantial quantities of lead were found in other, more common, over-the-counter supplements. Still, testing revealed continued public health concern over bonemeal, but thankfully it’s not as popular these days. So, most of us are not likely to get directly exposed to the lead in bonemeal any more, but we may get indirectly exposed through the animals we eat.

In the U.S., five billion pounds of meat and bonemeal are produced as slaughterhouse by-products every year. What do we do with these millions of tons every year? We feed it back to farm animals, particularly chickens. Now, most of the lead in the bonemeal passes right through the animals into their waste, but then we take that waste (cow, pig, and chicken feces) and feed it back to the animals again. You guessed it! So, you can see how the levels of contaminants might build up in their bodies.

I’ve talked previously about what that might mean for making something like chicken soup, but the original concern about these kinds of feeding practices, feeding cows to cows, and pigs and chickens, was the spread of prion diseases, like mad cow disease. But it’s not just prions that this kind of recycling can magnify, but other toxic substances, including lead. So, a more plant-based diet may be able to lower lead exposure, and an even more plant-based diet could theoretically lower exposure even more. But you’ve got to put it to the test.

But should we expect to find a benefit? Yes, lead is one of the toxins found in meat, but half of our dietary exposure probably comes from plant foods. Dietary modeling studies in Europe suggest that vegetarians would be exposed to about the same amount of lead compared to the general population, with the exception of those who eat a lot of wild game, which can end up with a thousand times more lead than most other foods.

In fact, a vegetarian diet may even be higher in lead. But, it’s not what you eat; it’s what you absorb. As we learned from the cadmium story, the uptake of toxic heavy metals from animal food sources into human intestinal lining cells may be higher than from vegetable sources. That’s how you have a vegetarian with some of the lowest concentrations of lead and cadmium in her blood, despite higher concentrations in her diet. But you don’t know, until you…put it to the test.

There seemed to be a tendency towards higher fecal elimination of lead following a change to a vegetarian diet, with nine subjects on average tripling their elimination of lead, three unaffected, and four dropping by about half. But the study only lasted a few months, and the difference wasn’t statistically significant. So, let’s try a year. A shift towards a diet characterized by large amounts of raw vegetables, fruits, and unrefined foods, whole grains, with the exclusion of meat, poultry, fish, and eggs (though it did include fermented dairy, like a type of soured milk), as well as cutting back on processed foods and junk. They took clippings of hair before and after the shift, and got significant reductions in heavy metals, including cutting their lead level nearly in half. Check this out: this is how much mercury, cadmium, and lead they had oozing from their body into their hair when they started, and within three months, their toxic heavy metal levels went down, and stayed down. How do we know it wasn’t just a coincidence? Because they went back up a few years later after the study was over, after they went back to more of their regular diet, and their mercury, cadmium, and lead levels shot back up to where they were before.

Same thing with a different group after two years. The drop in mercury is easy to explain, presumably due to the drastic drop in fish consumption, and the drop in alcoholic beverages may have contributed to the drop in lead, but it also could have been a cadmium-like effect, where the decrease in hair lead content could be due to the dietary shift resulting in less absorption of lead into the body in the first place.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Kristina DeMuth. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video.

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

We’ve previously explored the issue of lead contamination in calcium supplements like bonemeal, but it wasn’t just bonemeal. Substantial quantities of lead were found in other, more common, over-the-counter supplements. Still, testing revealed continued public health concern over bonemeal, but thankfully it’s not as popular these days. So, most of us are not likely to get directly exposed to the lead in bonemeal any more, but we may get indirectly exposed through the animals we eat.

In the U.S., five billion pounds of meat and bonemeal are produced as slaughterhouse by-products every year. What do we do with these millions of tons every year? We feed it back to farm animals, particularly chickens. Now, most of the lead in the bonemeal passes right through the animals into their waste, but then we take that waste (cow, pig, and chicken feces) and feed it back to the animals again. You guessed it! So, you can see how the levels of contaminants might build up in their bodies.

I’ve talked previously about what that might mean for making something like chicken soup, but the original concern about these kinds of feeding practices, feeding cows to cows, and pigs and chickens, was the spread of prion diseases, like mad cow disease. But it’s not just prions that this kind of recycling can magnify, but other toxic substances, including lead. So, a more plant-based diet may be able to lower lead exposure, and an even more plant-based diet could theoretically lower exposure even more. But you’ve got to put it to the test.

But should we expect to find a benefit? Yes, lead is one of the toxins found in meat, but half of our dietary exposure probably comes from plant foods. Dietary modeling studies in Europe suggest that vegetarians would be exposed to about the same amount of lead compared to the general population, with the exception of those who eat a lot of wild game, which can end up with a thousand times more lead than most other foods.

In fact, a vegetarian diet may even be higher in lead. But, it’s not what you eat; it’s what you absorb. As we learned from the cadmium story, the uptake of toxic heavy metals from animal food sources into human intestinal lining cells may be higher than from vegetable sources. That’s how you have a vegetarian with some of the lowest concentrations of lead and cadmium in her blood, despite higher concentrations in her diet. But you don’t know, until you…put it to the test.

There seemed to be a tendency towards higher fecal elimination of lead following a change to a vegetarian diet, with nine subjects on average tripling their elimination of lead, three unaffected, and four dropping by about half. But the study only lasted a few months, and the difference wasn’t statistically significant. So, let’s try a year. A shift towards a diet characterized by large amounts of raw vegetables, fruits, and unrefined foods, whole grains, with the exclusion of meat, poultry, fish, and eggs (though it did include fermented dairy, like a type of soured milk), as well as cutting back on processed foods and junk. They took clippings of hair before and after the shift, and got significant reductions in heavy metals, including cutting their lead level nearly in half. Check this out: this is how much mercury, cadmium, and lead they had oozing from their body into their hair when they started, and within three months, their toxic heavy metal levels went down, and stayed down. How do we know it wasn’t just a coincidence? Because they went back up a few years later after the study was over, after they went back to more of their regular diet, and their mercury, cadmium, and lead levels shot back up to where they were before.

Same thing with a different group after two years. The drop in mercury is easy to explain, presumably due to the drastic drop in fish consumption, and the drop in alcoholic beverages may have contributed to the drop in lead, but it also could have been a cadmium-like effect, where the decrease in hair lead content could be due to the dietary shift resulting in less absorption of lead into the body in the first place.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Kristina DeMuth. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video.

Doctor's Note

Cadmium & Cancer: Plant vs. Animal Foods is the older video I referred to. I also mentioned Lead in Calcium Supplements and How Much Lead Is in Organic Chicken Soup (Bone Broth)?

I’ve got a whole 16-part video series on lead, starting with How the Lead Paint Industry Got Away With It, including videos with specific food recommendations. For example, check out Best Food for Lead Poisoning – Garlic and Yellow Bell Peppers for Male Infertility & Lead Poisoning?

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

217 responses to “How to Lower Heavy Metal Levels with Diet

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  1. Low Fod Map?

    Someone here (with knowledge and insight into the LoFod thing) talk about this some?

    My sister finds relief in this sort of eating and misery outside of it. I’m only beginning to research it, as it sounds completely hellish and anti-nutritional to me. Also she’s found that peanuts and potatoes are “off her list” because they cause her issues as well (they are normally allowed to the lowfodders).

    I’m looking at it, in order to try to guide her to best nutrition within those bounds. I’m VERY HAPPY (healthy and nearly skinny now) eating primarily WFPB over 3 years.

    thanks.

      1. From all I know, low FODMAPs diet can be very helpful for some with inflammatory bowel issues but is pretty irrelevant to the heavy metal issue.

      1. Thanks Nancy, there’s just no going back (and that’s great!) BUT also it’s SO DIFFICULT watching the rest of the world and your own family and friends keep right on suffering because they think it’s difficult or impossible to make better food choices. Maybe we are the beginnings of a nutritional revolution that cannot happen too fast. Just nothing like feeling powerless to help. All I can do now is be an example (that they quickly dismiss as the exception who didn’t have to try real hard). It’s not real hard, but no one will try.

  2. FODMAPs are the fermentable carbohydrrates in foods, our prebiotics. Most healthy people should NOT follow this diet as we want to feed our good bacteria. I think when people’s guts are so messed up and loaded with bad bugs, the bad bugs are consuming these prebiotics and thus multiplying. I think this diet is a way to starve bacteria in the colon, and if you’re loaded with pathogens that may help alleviate symptoms. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/low-fodmap-diet

    1. Thank you Julie, that helps me “get it” as the bad/good food selections had me completely baffled and I needed a quick run down. And Wegan got my issue basically–which is GEEZ that’s no way or a VERY odd way to live long and prosper.

      My sister gets relief by eating this way and maybe will be able to get back to a fuller, healthier diet later. Probably some of the Rx in her life mucked up her gut biomass.

      No I didn’t associate this with the video subject. I asked the question here because we tend to have a MUCH larger pool of like-nutrition-minded folks than anywhere else on the web I can go. Facebook is way too much of a “me too” scene for real discussions. WE could have a great interactive forum right here and sort of did at one time (I’m sure there are remnants of that yet functioning-hence my posting a “comment” today. BUT the structure has been largely removed and it’s clear that there’s no desire from the top for ust to have this sort of a community discussion thing right here. And tha’s not my biz, so I’m fine with that. But I like how it worked out today. Thanks for playin’. Eat well, be well. LL&P

      1. Wade,

        My friend who was on a ton of antibiotics almost every year of her life, ended up going FodMap diet and it brought relief to her stomach problems. She and I talked about the likelihood that she is missing whole strains of good bacteria, plus, eats a meat heavy diet, so has a whole bunch of bad bacteria. I felt the same way you do, that she got rid of most foods and ended up getting rid of nightshades and all grains and nuts and fruit and most sources of nutrition. I couldn’t even follow the whole list, but it was part of an elimination diet plan and it was what her doctor ordered for her.

        I listened to all the foods she got rid of and noticed that she found a type of chocolate she could eat.

        Interestingly, in the past month, something has improved in her gut bacteria and suddenly, she can eat wheat again.

        I told her, hang out with all of the Vegans you can find and you might get some of their gut bacteria. (I didn’t say, and stay away from me for a few months, because I don’t want any of your gut bacteria, because I am trying to heal my dog.)

        1. “I didn’t say, and stay away from me for a few months, because I don’t want any of your gut bacteria, because I am trying to heal my dog.”

          Haha, oh Deb that made me laugh. Not a request someone would hear everyday! I love it. Good luck with your dog, btw! Hope he/she is doing well!

        2. and my bests to your dog. Mine just got nipped by the Copperhead he killed the other night, and he got over it surprisingly quick-for a 13 year old dog.

  3. Great video Dr Greger.
    My guess is the lead and other contaminates bind to the fiber content in some manner and then are excreted.

    Well back to lead paint it is for me, and a bit of leaded gas as well I think….long as I eat my WFPB….should be OK I guess ;)
    Kidding aside I do wonder at what level it does not make a difference. Meaning at what level the excretion mechanism is overwhelmed.

    Seems if someone wanted to do a study they have a good base already present in Flint Michigan. Did kids with vegetarian diets end up better off than others with gross known to cause harm exposure levels?

    1. I did some initial research ron but the best I could come up with was a study looking at exposure of vegetarian populations in general (not just children).

      https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128039687000459/
      Vegetarian and Plant-Based Diets in Health and Disease Prevention
      45 – Exposure to Pesticide Residues and Contaminants of the Vegetarian Population—French data I agree it would be interesting to see if the children in Flint MI who consumed a vegetarian diet after exposure to the lead in water fared any better than those eating the Standard American diet.

      1. Thanks Joan, appreciate your work in getting that.

        A great tragedy in Flint. But it does provide great scientific opportunity. I know of no other recent large large groupings of peoples to include children with such a known time frame exposure window.

        Seems any number of studies could be done some to assist them but many more in just the study of lead exposure.
        I would start with vegetarians against normal diet and see who has tested for in water lead exposure but is showing less in body lead retention….but that is only my preference, any number of things could be come up with.

    2. Great idea Ron! It might be worth contacting that doctor who exposed the whole thing contrary to the wishes of the State admin. She deserves a lot of credit and I bet could rally the population there to participate in a study.

    3. Ron, have you seen Dr. Greger’s video on cadmium plants vs. animals? It kind of addresses your question about at what point are you overwhelmed. In the video they found that heavy metals from plants wasn’t being absorbed but then tested plants grown in the or one of the most polluted areas of the world and found that in that instance, their heavy metal levels did increase, however all the benefits from those plants seemed to counteract any negative effects of the metals!

      Bottom line, plants are magic. At least that is my hypothesis.

    1. I honestly don’t know if there is a connection.
      But this burger uses heme to make the burger taste like meat. Knowing the cardiac/oxident hazards of heme iron….does this translate out into a problem with the burgers?.

      Till they explain to me it does not or someone does, I will not touch this one with a ten foot pole.
      Why for taste hazard a thing of cardiac problem?
      A meateater going veggie I guess it would make sense as a transitional food.
      Beyond beef tastes pretty good anyway. I like field burgers as well.

      So does it translate to problems such as found in heme iron….it is not as if most don’t know of the problem with heme iron it is well proven.
      The main reason I contend human were not designed or evolved to eat meat…heme iron….stuff kills us.

      1. Thanks actually for bringing this link up…I have been wondering about this since I saw it introduced.
        Perhaps someone now can explain away the problems with it containing heme….if they do not I would just say congratulations…..further science on vegetarian diets will show them of the same level of cancer and heart disease as they are probably eating this stuff.

        And everyone will say what point vegan? So their side wins I guess if you can call that a win.
        But perhaps I am wrong…so please explain how I am if I am.

        1. Ron, legitimate concerns. Personally I tend to trust the founder of the science as he doesn’t eat animal products as he states in the video.

          What I like about the man is that he isn’t trying to “change the world” by getting people to not eat meat, but instead he is offering a viable alternative to give people an option.

          As he says in the video, they’ve done a lot of research and have found that as a rule people would prefer their meat to be vegetable based rather than animal based, but are not willing to give up eating meat to meet that criteria. So offering them an equal and eventually better alternative, the general public is willing to switch.

          And in re the Heme concerns you have, it is in our hemoglobin and is in fact one of the things that carry oxygen throughout our bodies. They achieved the heme by taking a gene from nodes on soybean roots and implanting it in yeast to create the volumes needed. (How plant based can you get? ‘-)

          Still, even if the heme were somehow to be a concern (which it isn’t) it imparts flavor that allows a plant based product to mimic an animal product and in time is going to make the world a cleaner and more efficient eco-system to be in.

          As a plant based consumer already, you are not necessarily the target of this science. It is the 90% (just a guess) of the world population that is a regular consumer of animal products that will be the difference maker.

          1. Thanks Lonie for the reply. Sounds good as a transitional food but here is the video on heme iron as opposed to plant source iron…

            https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-safety-of-heme-vs-non-heme-iron/
            Sorry can’t link for some reason. Just put it in the search box and it will show up.
            To paraphrase the video there are significant problems of cancer and heart disease due to the oxidant effects of heme iron. There is no doubt about that.

            1. Hey Ron,

              Have you watched the first video? I think he speaks to iron in some way… in a positive as I recall. I was always under the impression that organic iron is a necessary thing in our bodies, but mineral iron is a negative to our health. Granted, too much iron of any kind isn’t good.

              Prime example, when women reach menopause and thus do not expel excess iron from their bodies, that seems to be when some of their health problems begin. So, after a certain stage in life it may be best to avoid iron in significant amounts in food.

              Disclaimer: I cannot link to the information in the above paragraph… it is just something I read years ago.

              1. I don’t know about the positive stated…I do think the video I linked shows his current thinking on it, which is heme iron is bad in multiple ways and it is differentiated from non heme iron source.

                Heme iron to paraphrase…diabetes increased significantly, cancer same thing, heart disease same thing….and on and on.
                I am not really familiar with a differentiation between mineral and non animal source. I personally just always avoid heme iron in any form.
                Well actually I am vegan and do it for moral reasons but I will avoid this burger unless someone explains the heme in it, is not connected to the heme iron causing increased oxidative damage to cells.

                Though I am vegan for moral reasons I don’t want to trash my health going about it in a bad way.

                1. Here is a quote from the video as regards just heart disease…..” But if you just look at iron intake from meat, it’s associated with significantly higher risk for heart disease. This is thought to be because iron can act as a pro-oxidant contributing to the development of atherosclerosis by oxidizing cholesterol with free radicals. The risk has been quantified as a 27% increase in coronary heart disease risk for every one milligram of heme iron consumed daily.”

                  He goes on and on showing the same things for this and that oxidative related disease. The science he cites to back it up seems solid.

                  1. Heh, you keep quoting a paraphrasing from someone who cherry picks data as your set in stone answer while I am referencing a well respected and decorated scientist, Dr. Pat Brown, who has and is inventing something that will literally change the world… Impossible Foods.

                    I have no problem with your blind faith in Dr. Jesus (heysoos) Greger. It is better than going around willy-nilly as the hoi polloi generally do.

                    But I’m hoping that anyone on this site who are interested in moving forward the interest of benefiting the aforementioned hoi polloi, will see this as something to spread the word about to get them to embrace the healthier option. This doesn’t have to be an all or nothing, that is, Plant based or you are anathema.

                    For those who are interested, the link again is:

                    http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/06/impossible-foods-makes-a-wheat-protein-burger-with-taste-and-aroma-of-meat.html

                    1. Well thanks Lonie…
                      Discussion usually brings out where a person is coming from and I think this does…
                      “I have no problem with your blind faith in Dr. Jesus (heysoos) Greger. It is better than going around willy-nilly as the hoi polloi generally do.”

                      I disagree with his stance on things and then review the source materials to determine authentic content.
                      Mostly he is on the mark but occasionally not. I find in the Heme study thing, he was on the mark the science makes sense and is legit.. I reviewed it a while back.

                      I agree with you on this burger as a transitional food getting away from meat. It is a good product for that and I would advocate for all who eat beef to get away from it by using this product instead.
                      But for those who are already away it introduces a potential negative health component until shown otherwise based on the heme content.

                      There are multiple sources for burgers now that do not include heme and are vegan and/or vegetarian.

                    2. It’s just that you keep coming back to the heme issue. Heme is a component in our blood (hemoglobin) and of course there are hematopoietic stem cells that replenish our stem cells when we experience a loss of blood or have to fight off an infection.

                      And the thing that should allay your fears is that this heme utilized for taste is plant sourced. All I’m saying is that Dr. Greger’s research may not apply in this situation. Don’t be afraid of a word (heme.)

                      I suspect if asked to address this directly (and maybe he did, I did not watch the hour of direct questioning in the video) he would have revealed that this is not animal derived heme, but plant based heme that is necessary to give the hamburger meat the taste needed to get people to like it.

                    3. Hey lonie nothing against being on this site, it is a free world and all but if you feel this way why are you here and not on that guys site….

                      ” Heh, you keep quoting a paraphrasing from someone who cherry picks data as your set in stone answer while I am referencing a well respected and decorated scientist, Dr. Pat Brown, who has and is inventing something that will literally change the world… Impossible Foods.”

                      Heme from plants derived I just don’t know honestly. I do know soy in high content levels produces IGF-1 which is a growth hormone found in cows milk by greatest source in diet and does as well result in increased cancer chance.

                      So I will steer clear and not used plant or soy source as enough to recommend it.

                      Soy is fine and actually beneficial almost always concentrate it or eat to muchas in way more than normal and it becomes a different thing a negative thing.

                    4. Hey lonie nothing against being on this site, it is a free world and all but if you feel this way why are you here and not on that guys site….
                      ———————————————————————————————————————————–

                      They have plenty of people to refute any statements like yours damning their heme when you don’t even know its components.

                      I can do much more good being on here challenging those misguided claims so that others can benefit from the counter-claims and not accept them as truth without first knowing the truth.
                      ——————————————————————————————————————–
                      Heme from plants derived I just don’t know honestly. I do know soy in high content levels produces IGF-1 which is a growth hormone found in cows milk by greatest source in diet and does as well result in increased cancer chance.
                      ————————————————————————————————————————-
                      That is just my point that you do not know about the heme derived from plants. In truth I don’t know 100% that it is o.k. as an additive in an otherwise plant based ersatz meat. I’m just sayin’ don’t discount it out of hand, and I think you ascribe to that line of thinking at your core, but some of what you say may give others who value your opinion may think you are writing it off. It is already in 200,000 restaurants world wide, so people just need to understand that it is here and should help promote it as I am doing, although I have no vested interest in it either financially or as a food for personal consumption.

                    5. Well Lonie…

                      “They have plenty of people to refute any statements like yours damning their heme when you don’t even know its components.
                      I can do much more good being on here challenging those misguided claims so that others can benefit from the counter-claims and not accept them as truth without first knowing the truth.
                      . In truth I don’t know 100% that it is o.k. as an additive in an otherwise plant based ersatz meat. I’m just sayin’ don’t discount it out of hand, and I think you ascribe to that line of thinking at your core, but some of what you say may give others who value your opinion may think you are writing it off.”

                      You say I don’t know and then say I damn Heme….which I did state I just don’t know about this heme.

                      So which is it…I say I don’t know or I say I am damning heme…..?

                      Then you sayyou don’t know .
                      So I can only conclude we are in the same boat. Is it going over a cliff I do not know and apparently you do not know.

                      For new people to veganism I would advocate this as a transitional food. For meat eaters as a sub for meat I would as well.

                      Others no. I would recommend another product that does not contain heme.

                    6. Others no. I would recommend another product that does not contain heme.
                      —————————————————————————————————————–
                      And thus defeat the purpose of offering a product that tastes like meat, and therefore is acceptable for meat eaters who are willing to transition IF THEY CAN HAVE A PRODUCT THAT MIMICS MEAT IN ALL ASPECTS.

                      (Sorry for the all caps… the site took away the ability to italicize or go bold)

                      Ron, instead of recommending which you obviously aren’t qualified to do, just let the science speak for itself. ‘-)

                    7. Well Lonie in this specific on the content of the product and its relationship to the potential of harm from heme iron….I can find no study or science.
                      Has this fellow who made it addressed the concern or even mentioned, it seems not. I have seen his stuff I followed it when it first came out.

                      AS to this..”Ron, instead of recommending which you obviously aren’t qualified to do, just let the science speak for itself”. ‘-)

                      Well that is insulting. You do not know if I hold any qualification. I claim none. But I have been vegan since around 1990 and I am often asked for recommendation on this thing of veganism.
                      I personally think those giving recommendation in this thing are not those who have any functional necessity, theorists or lab types or a brand new to vegan person.

                      One is totally concerned only with the science aspect and the other…no telling what is their motivation but it usually involves quite firm ascertations theirs is the way only way and the final way for all. They will clearly define veganism for you and what you must do and not do. Five years from now most all will have moved on.

                      So yes I recommend and functionally I find nothing suggests my approach is deficient nor that my study is poor.
                      Most often I find peoples who have totally messed up their diet for years and years then come down with this or that and change their diet then feel they have to profess their change to everyone else.

                      And of course part of that is dragging down everyone who is perhaps not close to their new particular study and claiming them then deficient and poor in study itself.

                      Well I say usually to myself….if your intellect is so superior…why did you not discover the problems with your diet before you came down with this or that??
                      Peoples with illnesses are as bad in this specific as new vegans.

                      So yes I offer recommendation. I also am in the top 95% of capacity for my age grouping in any physical testing of a whole nature.
                      Others the techs the scientists the new vegans…maybe they are as well..taking any bets they are not..I could field a one or two.
                      I am no saint in lifestyle but find without much effort I am physically superior. And I am doing this now 30 years about.

                      Going now right after writing this for a hour or so jog up and down hills on a trail in the mountains where I live, record heat today. Followed by a session of hitting the heavy bag and kicking the heavy bag for three rounds in each speciality.
                      And I am old…wear glasses hearing aid….

                      I don’t know who should recommend and who should not. Others follow mine….I think generally my advise will not hurt them and may help them.

                    8. Wear glasses hearing aid…no absolutely not.
                      Medical history none. Meds none.
                      And on and on. My brother slightly older conventional lifestyle and diet…..has all his bedroom draws marked so he can remember where his things are.
                      My parents both legally blind in old age. Both demented with age…
                      That is my genetic line.

                      So listen to my recommendations…I think that is not the worst thing one may do in life.

                    9. So yes I recommend and functionally I find nothing suggests my approach is deficient nor that my study is poor.
                      ——————————————————————————————————————-
                      The problem is you recommend based on either intuition or in this case, information that is totally unrelated to plant produced heme.

                      ——————————————————————————————————————–
                      Well that is insulting. You do not know if I hold any qualification.
                      ———————————————————————————————————————-
                      Sorry, you will probably find this also insulting… but based on your responses and your construction thereof, I surmised you do not presently hold any valid qualification. Just being a Vegan is not a recognized scientific qualification. It does mean you have sympathizers. ‘-)
                      ————————————————————————————————————————
                      Well I say usually to myself….if your intellect is so superior…why did you not discover the problems with your diet before you came down with this or that??
                      ———————————————————————————————————————–
                      Not claiming a superior intellect currently. But 50+ years ago my measured IQ was 142. But one doesn’t have to have a high IQ to rely on facts before making unqualified statements.

                      As for discovering problems with diet, I did before I came down with this or that. I’ve been without a doctor since back in the 1970s and had seldom seen one before that one. I change as I learn.

                      Due to O’bama care, I’ve had to get one (through the VA) and am finding it useful to amaze them with my labs and argue with them over their proclivity to prescribe drugs. I love Dr.’s appointments. Great Fun! ‘-)
                      —————————————————————————————————————————————
                      So yes I offer recommendation. I also am in the top 95% of capacity for my age grouping in any physical testing of a whole nature.
                      ——————————————————————————————————————————————
                      I’d put my labs up against those of an average 40 to 50 year old.
                      —————————————————————————————————————————————–
                      Going now right after writing this for a hour or so jog up and down hills on a trail in the mountains where I live, record heat today. Followed by a session of hitting the heavy bag and kicking the heavy bag for three rounds in each speciality.
                      And I am old…wear glasses hearing aid….
                      ——————————————————————————————————————————
                      I live in a place with record heat throughout the end of May and through June. 100 + days broken by the occasional high 90 degree days. Not so bad until it is accompanied by humidity. I have no air conditioner but do raise my south-facing windows at night. I sometimes stay up until 3:00 A.M. for it to cool down enough (into the 80s so that I can sleep under a fan without sweating too much.

                      I don’t work out as that causes higher metabolism which in turn causes more cell division, shortened telomeres, resulting in a shorter life. Being mental doesn’t seem to cause said problems, so I occasionally walk and think.

                      I only put on glasses to read the tiny print ingredients on a package. They would probably be big enough if they only had enough contrast. It’s as though they are using semi-invisible ink to print those.

                      My hearing is superior. On a quiet day, I can hear a leaf flutter or hear a cat walk up behind me. I have mild tininitus but only notice maybe once every 3 or 4 days, for just a minute or so.
                      —————————————————————————————————————
                      I am not old. I am 69 years and 52 months of age… still just a pup. I am scheduled to get 2 CCs of cord blood stem cells in a couple of weeks in order to maintain my pup status.

                    10. Geeeze louise impossible burger ingredients…
                      “Full Ingredient List:
                      Water, Textured Wheat Protein, Coconut Oil, Potato Protein, Natural Flavors, 2% or less of: Leghemoglobin (Soy), Yeast Extract, Salt, Konjac Gum, Xanthan Gum, Soy Protein Isolate, Vitamin E, Vitamin C, Thiamin (Vitamin B1), Zinc, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin B12
                      Contains:
                      Soy, Wheat”

                      A quick check of the breakdown shows each burger contains 10 grams of sat fat….50% RDA one burger

                      Aside the heem question this is a unhealthful thing. Textured wheat protein coconut oil…..

                    11. Geeeze louise impossible burger ingredients…
                      “Full Ingredient List:
                      Water, Textured Wheat Protein, Coconut Oil, Potato Protein, Natural Flavors, 2% or less of: Leghemoglobin (Soy), Yeast Extract, Salt, Konjac Gum, Xanthan Gum, Soy Protein Isolate, Vitamin E, Vitamin C, Thiamin (Vitamin B1), Zinc, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin B12
                      Contains:
                      Soy, Wheat”

                      A quick check of the breakdown shows each burger contains 10 grams of sat fat….50% RDA one burger

                      Aside the heem question this is a unhealthful thing. Textured wheat protein coconut oil…..
                      These are not things that would concern a current meat eater. Think of this as a “weaning off meat” product. ‘-)

                    12. Lonie,

                      I haven’t seen even one person here treat Dr Greger as if they see him like God.

                      Not one.

                      I do believe in giving respect in return for the information he gives out freely.

                      I don’t mind that you disagree, but I am going to say that Ron is right, if you don’t respect Dr Greger, there is a whole internets worth of sites to go to.

                      I am not asking you to leave.

                      I am saying that you are the only one who puts Dr Greger and other people down instead of just discussing your points.

                      You don’t have to do that.

                      You don’t need to do unfair fighting to get your points across.

                      You can just discuss things without insulting people and it generally works better.

                    13. Standing in,

                      As scoldings go, yours is pretty mild… almost a Prozac driven version. ‘-)

                      But the important thing is that you feel better for having delivered it.

                      But to me, the equally important thing is your views of the discussion.

                      That is, do you agree we should all encourage our meat eating friends to adopt this type of product that they can enjoy on equal footing with their meat, and therefore cut down on the phenomenal numbers and costs of raising animals for food world-wide, as pointed out in the link?

                      TIA for any feedback.

                  2. Ok..here we go..

                    You failed to produce any contributory information that renders my concern unwarranted and have in fact admitted you do not know.
                    Qualifications do not suffice in this world or discussion for a only singular metric on the giving of recommendation nor advice, If that was so none would offer any and the chidren of this world for one would have no knowledge on how to act as few hold teaching credentials but all adults teach.
                    Show a unqualified statement of mine not a base slander which you provide
                    As to you personally I make no mention of you personally in any comment I know not you.

                    Show me where exactly I am making a unbased statement..clearly I have provided link which is related to heme iron. I express a question as to the safety of this as per the video and you call Dr Greger names..
                    .
                    Where is the explaination on why the heem in this product is not of hazard as heem iron?
                    The discussion ends there really. I started with that and remain with that…and you get into personal attacks on Dr Greger and now me when all you have to do is copy paste and stick……why this is not a concern..
                    That is all stop the mumbo jumbo the who is qualified, the name calling and answer that simple question.

                    So who is out of order here….. you on this site calling doctor Greger a Jesus we are all following, or me providing substantiation of point by linking his videos…..

                    You refusing to answer a simple question or me asking a question?

                    No mumbo jumbo answer the question.

                    1. When I saw you making this statement here which I now quote and repeat…”I have no problem with your blind faith in Dr. Jesus (heysoos) Greger. It is better than going around willy-nilly as the hoi polloi generally do. ” and this .”Heh, you keep quoting a paraphrasing from someone who cherry picks data as your set in stone answer while I am referencing a well respected and decorated scientist, Dr. Pat Brown”,
                      I anticipated this conversation would take a turn for the worse and it now has.

                    2. So who is out of order here….. you on this site calling doctor Greger a Jesus we are all following, or me providing substantiation of point by linking his videos….

                      ———————————————————————————————————————-

                      Did not call Dr. Greger Jesus. I called him Heysoos, spelled Jesus. Being from New MEXICO I thought you might be aware of the difference. ‘-)

                      Anyway, I feel like I’ve said this about umpteen times… the problem I have with you is that you are trying to make a false point by linking to Dr. Greger’s videos.

                      Once again the Heme that is being used in this wheat based meat substitute is plant based. If you think that is a (fake) problem, do not support it. Just don’t advise others to follow your lead as that is how negativity can set back progress. Anyway, that’s Dr. Greger’s job. If he is against it, he will post a video on it.

                    3. This is a discussion board on Dr Gregers site we discuss and express opinion on what he has stated…and we may adise or not advise as we feel fit, as long as we don’t misrepresent our qualification nor troll or present known falsehood with intend to mislead or harm.

                      ” Once again the Heme that is being used in this wheat based meat substitute is plant based. If you think that is a (fake) problem, do not support it. Just don’t advise others to follow your lead as that is how negativity can set back progress. Anyway, that’s Dr. Greger’s job. If he is against it, he will post a video on it.”

                      I advise each and every person in whatever manner I desire. Who are you to tell me who to advise or not, by what qualification?
                      Do you run this board or are you a monitor?
                      AS to Dr Gregers job who are you to qualify what his job is or not. You have already stated he is a cherrypicker of stats and we are but his followers….so what concern is it of yours a cherrypicker and his followers here?

                      AS to the subject itself I once again say…stop dodgeing the question with all this mombo jumbo and tell me simply by some defined source other than you yourself,. how heme iron that is a hazard, is not connected in similar fashion to heme in this product….that is all show that answer that.

                      AS to me I advise again those who are meateaters to use this product. those that are transiting from meat diet to vegetarian or vegan to use this product, those who are already established vegans…I say not. This is a prepared product which has whole food content but it processed has levels of salt and fat which we may not desire and there remains the question of the heem in the product which as of yet may or may not be a problem similar in nature to heem iron content products.

                      So there it is I advise again. I suggest you contact a moderator and ask my post to be removed as in your estimation I am not qualified to make that statement…good luck with that. .
                      Ask them to tell Dr Greger to stop your claimed cherry picking while you are at it.

                    4. Do these manufacturers can they be trusted… I mean look at this ingredient list..
                      Full Ingredient List:
                      Water, Textured Wheat Protein, Coconut Oil, Potato Protein, Natural Flavors, 2% or less of: Leghemoglobin (Soy), Yeast Extract, Salt, Konjac Gum, Xanthan Gum, Soy Protein Isolate, Vitamin E, Vitamin C, Thiamin (Vitamin B1), Zinc, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin B12
                      Contains:
                      Soy, Wheat”

                      With 10 grams of sat fat per burger are they really concerned with our health?
                      I continue to say eat this instead of a meat burger but it is now based on moral reason only. this is very close to beef.
                      220 calories each.
                      What the heck is Xanthan Gum anyway?

                      Yes I know some think me not qualified to offer opinion but I do anyway.

                    5. Here from consumer reports is the impossible burgers nutritional profile…

                      “As for nutrition, three ounces has 220 calories, 13 grams of fat, 11 grams of saturated fat, 21 grams of protein, and 470 milligrams of sodium. The same amount of 80 percent lean ground beef has about the same calories and protein, and more total fat. But the Impossible Burger is higher in saturated fat and sodium.”

                      Which is a boatload of salt. ON the other hand it is way better for the environment than beef so I continue to recommend it for meat eaters and new vegans transitioning from meat. If the new vegan does not have a problem with salt content high blood pressure or heart disease.

                    6. I advise each and every person in whatever manner I desire. Who are you to tell me who to advise or not, by what qualification?
                      —————————————————————————————————————————-
                      Of course you can advise as you please… I’m just here to shoot down your advice, for the common good.
                      —————————————————————————————————————————–
                      AS to Dr Gregers job who are you to qualify what his job is or not. You have already stated he is a cherrypicker of stats and we are but his followers….so what concern is it of yours a cherrypicker and his followers here?
                      ———————————————————————————————————————————
                      It’s his job because HE has made it his job. The cherrypicker red herring isn’t fooling anyone. Most who are reading this understand that you are trying to divert attention away from the holes in your argument that Dr. Greger’s heme video doesn’t address heme made from yeast and fermented that has been supplied with genes from nodes on soybean roots that are proficient in making heme. THIS IS NOT ANIMAL HEME!!!!
                      ————————————————————————————————————————————–
                      AS to the subject itself I once again say…stop (sic) dodgeing the question with all this (sic?) mombo jumbo and tell me simply by some defined source other than you yourself,. how heme iron that is a hazard, is not connected in similar fashion to heme in this product….that is all show that answer that.
                      ——————————————————————————————————-
                      See my previous answer.
                      ———————————————————————————————————
                      AS to me I advise again those who are meateaters to use this product. those that are transiting from meat diet to vegetarian or vegan to use this product, those who are already established vegans…I say not. This is a prepared product which has whole food content but it processed has levels of salt and fat which we may not desire and there remains the question of the heem in the product which as of yet may or may not be a problem similar in nature to heem iron content products.
                      —————————————————————————————————————————
                      Well, originally you were protesting the (sic) heem in the product. Now you have expanded to other factors. Look Ron… you are preaching to your choir of followers, that is, fellow vegans and WFPB eaters to not eat this product.

                      Nothing wrong with that other than the condescension. That is, I think anyone committed enough to change to these lifestyles are smart enough to come to that conclusion on their own. But your scope is too narrow. You want those who are transitioning to vegetarian/vegan to eat this product.

                      Mine is a much broader perspective. I want the WHOLE WORLD to transition to this type of product. I want to save the Effing EARTH… whether people maximize their health or not.

                      Please, encourage everyone everywhere to learn to enjoy this earth-saving way of eating.

                    7. ON the other hand it is way better for the environment than beef so I continue to recommend it for meat eaters
                      ————————————————————————————————————
                      I endorse your recommendation. :)

                    8. Great job…advise to people a piece of garbage burger loaded with sat fat salt chemicals and who knows what, and claim the environment is better served for effort.

                      Earth to lonie…reality is calling and it wants you back.
                      I can list any number of burger products that are vegan and taste petty good and are way way better as per nutritional profile than this piece of garbage.

                      AS to you you are mistateing my position and then knocking it down which is classic strawman. Check my posts I always ask for clarification on the issue of heem and its relationship to heem iron, heem iron being deficient. I never state I claim to know if this is the same hazard…

                      I do expand my condemnation of this product to include meat eaters as well. I can not honestly refer them to it regardless of any environmental harm….I have to simply refer them to any number of a hundred other veggie and vegan burgers on the market.

                      I would not feed this filth to my worst enemies dog or to my worst enemy…..it is a piece of filth with a nutritional profile that will likely produce cancer diabetes high blood pressure heart attack and who knows what else.

                      I was worried about heem iron and the heem in this product and I get a boatload of nonsense about who is qualified to say this or that and about how deficient Dr Greger is.
                      I change my advice Einstein shoot down this one…..this product miracle burger sucks the big root and will likely with time kill any who consume it…

                      For the environments sake we feed people garbage that will likely kill them…..brilliant. True brilliance.

                    9. I can simply not believe in this day and time a piece of garbage like this is by nutritional profile is being marketed….

                      As for nutrition, three ounces has 220 calories, 13 grams of fat, 11 grams of saturated fat, 21 grams of protein, and 470 milligrams of sodium. The same amount of 80 percent lean ground beef has about the same calories and protein, and more total fat. But the Impossible Burger is higher in saturated fat and sodium.”

                      Miracle Burger…the miracle is in not getting a heart attack when you finish the burger….I hope they do put this on the menu at the heart attack grill though I suspect it may be there already.
                      And to think I was worried about heem iron content…..what a joke, with all the chemicals in this thing that is probably about number 100 on the lists of problems.,

                    10. Comical really here are some of the ingredients in miracle burger I would not put in miracle burger that are now present….

                      .Textured Wheat Protein, Coconut Oil, Potato Protein, Natural Flavors, 2% or less of: Leghemoglobin Konjac Gum, Xanthan Gum, Soy Protein Isolate,

                      Which are almost all the ingredients in the miracle burger.

                      Unless I had the notion to do away with myself….and I was worried about its heem iron content…it appears that is the least of my worries.

                      I think we could however use them as paving bricks…Yes paving bricks to replace asphalt ones…much better for the environment.

                      Up for some Leghemoglobin anyone….yes give me a bucket of that. How about some Konjac Gum, Xanthan Gum, in your burger…..sounds yummy to me. We can chew gum and burgers at the same time…wonderful.

                    11. From the magazine Eater but paraphrasing a article in the NYT..
                      “But the company perhaps isn’t having quite as much success when it comes to dealing with the Food and Drug Administration, thanks to the high-tech ingredient that makes its product so meat-like. Impossible Foods has asked the FDA to declare its product safe to eat, but the agency has expressed some reservations about the ingredient, soy leghemoglobin, according to the New York Times.
                      Soy leghemoglobin gives the Impossible Burger its meaty taste and texture and is also responsible for making the burger “bleed” like a real meat patty. Though the substance is found in nature — it comes from the roots of soybean plants, the Times notes — Impossible Foods uses genetically engineered yeast to produce it in a lab setting. But the FDA has refused to declare the substance as safe, noting that soy leghemoglobin hasn’t previously been consumed by humans and saying that the company has not done sufficient testing to determine whether the ingredient could be an allergen.”

                      Genetically engineered yeast….what could go wrong there?
                      Some GMO’s with your burgers folks…comin right up.

                    12. Ron, I recently had a “meatloaf” made from the impossible burger at the only vegan restaurant in town. It was way too salty!! I asked our waitstaff to let the chef know — but now it seems as though the salt was already added before it got to the chef. But I never asked about the ingredients or nutrients. Thanks for posting them; I’ve copied them out, and will provide a copy to the restaurant as a basis to ask about them. Though the restaurant’s mission is not about providing healthy food, just vegan food. And as we all know, there are a lot of vegan junk foods: sodas, potato chips, pretzels, candies, cookies, cakes, etc etc etc all kind of highly processed and prepared foods. I guess I will add this impossible burger to this very long list. I like my plant based whole foods eating; I don’t need fake foods. We were just curious. So now we know. “Quoth the Raven, Nevermore”

                    13. Some new facts I did not know about the impossible burger’s leghemoglobin:

                      — If it’s just part of soy, what’s the problem? There are actually two problems. First, though humans consume all sorts of globins in all sorts of forms, it appears that they haven’t gotten around to eating soy leghemoglobin before. People eat soy beans, of course, and they also consume a variety of plant products that contain various sorts of leghemoglobin—think bean sprouts. Cows grazing on alfalfa sometimes consume root and all, taking in leghemoglobin with no apparent ill effects. But if people or livestock have been eating soy root nodules [where the leg hemoglobin is produced, and where bacterial nitrogen fixation takes place], they haven’t gone public with it.

                      The second problem: The soy leghemoglobin Impossible uses in its burgers doesn’t come directly from soy plants. Instead, Impossible has implanted the soy gene responsible for creating it in yeast cells—specifically Pichia pastoris, one of the workhorses of biotech. The manufacturers brew up the modified yeast, much the way you’d brew beer, but with the yeast releasing a globin instead of alcohol, and then they filter out the yeast and other byproducts until the leghemoglobin is about 80 percent pure. —
                      https://newfoodeconomy.org/plant-blood-soy-leghemoglobin-impossible-burger/

                    14. Hi Dr J
                      I started off this conversation not really knowing a whole lot about the impossible burger, but now I do.

                      I started off recommending it as a transitional food or a substitution item for meat eaters but can not any longer.
                      It is just really unhealthful.
                      I use some processed foods in my diet and do include a occasional meat substitute burger, but they all have better nutritional profiles than this one.
                      Bill Gates is a major mover in GMO’s research and products and has a interest in this.. I think GMO’s exempting the allowance of more pesticide use on crops are generally safe, but this includes GMO yeast and other products we have to assume are GMO as well.
                      Put the impossible burger whole package together health wise, my guess is it may be worse than a actual burger, salt content being predominant to such a degree.

                      If vegans did eat this sort of thing commonly we would indeed in study show as worse than meateaters as far as mortality and contraction of disease goes, to my opinion. Then they would in media resoundingly report….see we told you veganism is unhealthy.

                      And likely then push more into meateating, which would provide more in the way of environmental destruction than if this thing had never been at all. Veganism is a community and we must be responsible in our choices.
                      Of course the healthiest option, WFPB, would have none of this, but I can see some do still like these things, burgers and such, as I do as well. I am into veganism for the morality of it but truthfully if found completely unhealthy I would have to abandon it. I can not advocate for any product which is so grossly unhealthy, it causes harm to animals, human animals which is against my creed.

            2. Watched the link Ron.

              It was helpful for me, because of the danger of adding Heme Iron being associated with Cancer, Diabetes and Heart Disease.

              It is a well-timed link on your part, because I was just pondering Heme Iron this morning and now I shall not ponder it anymore.

                1. Thanks Ron.

                  You have no idea how much that link helped me today.

                  Heme versus non-Heme was on my mind and I didn’t even think to search for it on the site.

                  Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

          2. Lonie

            That sounds sensible. However, those of us who are already WFPB will stay away I think. Just off the top of my head, I can think of 4 reasons why:

            1. heme iron. Ron has already pointed to the video on heme iron and stroke risk. However, this is only the tip of the iceberg. There are multiple studies pointing to an association between heme iron intake and cardiovascular risk. And a Chinese meta analysis in 2014 found:

            ‘Conclusions
            Higher dietary intake of heme iron is associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular disease, whereas no association was found between CVD and non-heme iron intake or total iron intake. These findings may have important public health implications with respect to preventing cardiovascular disease.’
            https://www.nmcd-journal.com/article/S0939-4753(14)00288-9/fulltext

            2. These burgers are very high in saturated fat An expert panel of the American Heart Association reviewed the evidence and concluded

            ‘Taking into consideration the totality of the scientific evidence, satisfying rigorous criteria for causality, we conclude strongly that lowering intake of saturated fat and replacing it with unsaturated fats, especially polyunsaturated fats, will lower the incidence of CVD. ‘
            https://jhu.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/dietary-fats-and-cardiovascular-disease-a-presidential-advisory-f

            3. The burgers are high in sodium. According to the World Health Organization’s review of the evidence

            ‘Higher sodium intake was associated with higher risk of incident stroke, fatal stroke and fatal coronary heart
            disease. ………. WHO recommends a reduction in sodium intake to reduce blood pressure and risk of cardiovascular disease, stroke and coronary heart disease in adults (strong recommendation1). WHO recommends a reduction to <2 g/day sodium (5 g/day salt) in adults (strong recommendation). '
            http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/guidelines/sodium_intake_printversion.pdf

            4. Burgers are highly processed foodstuffs not whole foods. Most nutritionists agree that highly processed foods – animal or plant derived – are unhealthy and should be avoided or at least minimised in the diet.

            1. That sounds sensible.
              ——————————————————————
              I’ll take this part of your statement and leave the rest as I’ve already discussed the heme thing to death and made my case. Off to my Tues. morning coffee shop experience. (Oh, and have we heard? 4 cups of coffee caffeine equivalent is heart protective! ‘-)

                1. Just to be contrary though, have you heard that ‘More than four cups of coffee a day increases the risk of an early death’?
                  ————————————————————————————————————————————————
                  I know, I know… doesn’t seem to square does it? I suppose one study will say you have to stop after 4 cups (what size is your coffee cup?) while the other one says the danger kicks in only after 4 cups, so in that way they do sorta allow for co-existence.

                  But the 4-cupper is-a-good-thing study seems to concentrate on the caffeine angle.

                  I get a lot of my caffeine from some of the teas I drink but not nearly 4 coffees worth. So as an experiment, I started adding about half a tsp of 5 hour energy drink to about 3 of the cups of tea I drink per day.

                  I use no sugar or cream and surprisingly, the 5-hour makes the tea taste better.

    2. This is very interesting, Lonie. Not that I would be interested in it for myself. But if it cuts down on the slaughter of animals, helps protect the environment, and isn’t harmful to humans on the long or short term, then I’d be all for it.

      1. This is very interesting, Lonie. Not that I would be interested in it for myself. But if it cuts down on the slaughter of animals, helps protect the environment, and isn’t harmful to humans on the long or short term, then I’d be all for it.
        ——————————————————————————————————————————————-
        That mirrors my thinking precisely Nancy

        1. Lonie,

          I agree with Nancy.

          If it proves to not be harmful to the health of human beings, then, it is better than the alternative.

          I would worry about the Heme though, based on the link Ron just posted.

          That being said, it wouldn’t have maybe growth hormone or other things, so it might be less damaging than what it is replacing.

          It will be interesting to see.

          1. Deb I thought I may restate this in the event you miss it elsewhere. Here is the nutritional profile of the impossible burger from Consumer Reports…

            Push came to shove and I actually did a search on the darn things…;)
            “As for nutrition, three ounces has 220 calories, 13 grams of fat, 11 grams of saturated fat, 21 grams of protein, and 470 milligrams of sodium. The same amount of 80 percent lean ground beef has about the same calories and protein, and more total fat. But the Impossible Burger is higher in saturated fat and sodium.”

            It is not healthful. To much sat fat and salt aside the heem question.

        2. Where I think we may differ, Lonie, is that in my opinion, those 3 if statements will be an extremely tall order to fill. Man has yet to out do Nature when it comes to food & nutrition. They tried with infant formula, but that didn’t work out so well. That’s why I prefer the WFP non-processed approach because whole food plants are already perfect. How does one outdo perfection? I guess I can’t blame people for trying. I just don’t want to be one of the guinea pigs.

          1. They tried with infant formula, but that didn’t work out so well.
            ————————————————————————————–
            Nancy, Joe and Jack are two scientists working on different approaches to the same problem.

            Joe’s approach failed. Does this mean that Jack’s approach will also fail?
            ————————————————————————————————
            That’s why I prefer the WFP non-processed approach because whole food plants are already perfect. How does one outdo perfection?
            ————————————————————————————————
            How does one outdo perfection? By increasing the perfection. The broccoli you eat, the tomatoes, the potatoes etc., these things have been bred up through hybridization for a time and now via genetic science.

            I daresay if you were to eat a “natural” tomato from Peru, or wherever the Conquistadors found them, you would toss it and then grab the modern version. “Natural” and “Perfect” are moving targets.
            —————————————————————————————————————-
            I guess I can’t blame people for trying. I just don’t want to be one of the guinea pigs.
            —————————————————————————————————————–
            I guess you also cannot thank people for trying? They are well past the guinea pig stage so your participation is not required. From the opening statement in the link I provided:
            *********************************************************************************************************************************
            Impossible Foods has $400 million in funding. Pat Brown founded it in 2011. They now are selling factory produced meat to 2000 restaurants. They have sold 4 million burger patties.

            Their goal is to replace animal meat for food by 2035 by their factory produced meat that is more nutritious and better tasting.
            ***********************************************************************************************************************************
            http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/06/impossible-foods-makes-a-wheat-protein-burger-with-taste-and-aroma-of-meat.html

              1. Heh, no, I only learned about it recently and even now I’m pretty sure the only way to invest is through a venture capitalist.

                Interestingly, the founder addressed his experience with raising money and he went about it in the way he decided to pursue the solution… that is, he packaged it as a solution to the damage and cost of raising animals for meat. Most of the venture capitalists were sort of ho-hum.

                He casually mentioned this was a trillion and a half industry and suddenly, he had the funds he needed to proceed.

              2. I would be very careful about any investment in this company Nancy if one became available. Though I am relatively certain you would not.

                A genetically modified labeling law was passed in at least one state Hawaii to my recollection. And as americans overwhelming support such legislation likely more is to come.
                The question then becomes since American are getting into eating healthy, would they buy a regular beef burger(possibly labeled as organic or free range) or a substitute beef burger product which is labeled GMO containing….would they healthy eating wise vie for the GMO burger?

                I’d guess average Jane and Joe no….they stay with the meat burger.
                So the industry in this specific this burger is but one step away by legislation, (a always risky thing to predict) from total collapse.
                Bill Gates is a major provider of invested money to this company and he has deep pockets. He is a major supporter of GMO technology to a extreme degree. So the company will survive likely but is always on the cusp of a potential adverse affect to earnings by legislation.
                It is basically not investable if it was offered as common stock to any other than a speculative investor.

                Not to say that GMO’s themselves are unhealthy, exempting that they allow for much greater amounts of pesticides to be used and then to translate down into the products, but given a free and open choice, about half of Americans tend to avoid them.
                So with labeling goes potentially half of your anticipatory market.

            1. “Impossible Foods has $400 million in funding. Pat Brown founded it in 2011. They now are selling factory produced meat to 2000 restaurants. They have sold 4 million burger patties.”

              Well, bless their little business-minded hearts. :-D On the other hand, “You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.” The (hopefully informed) customer always has the last word as far as what to order in a restaurant.

              1. “You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.” The (hopefully informed) customer always has the last word as far as what to order in a restaurant.
                ——————————————————————————————————–
                I’m pretty confident this is the case. Probably offers a new customer a taste test.

                But in the video the founder/scientist said they did focus group type of research and they found that a goodly percentage of those surveyed would prefer their meat not be animal sourced, but wouldn’t give up meat for that reason alone.

                1. Funny……. did the focus group study do a check on the consumers response to a regular burger possible marked as free range or organic as opposed to a marked as GMO containing, fake burger…… which would a health conscious consumer buy?
                  I can guess well the answer to that. The success of this product may likely rest with the likely fact most do not know it is a GMO product.

                  The meat industry if this did present a threat at any time to profits, would certainly make that a known. Any discussion of this product or like product being widely accepted and used, completely fails to account for a industry presence in the space which is ready willing and able to provide a significant opposition to its displacement.

                  Media would suddenly become filled with articles on how safe really are GMO’s, and why they should be labeled…if this product at any time did start to present as threat.

                  1. I could come close to providing a degree of certainty that Bill Gates movement into this company provided for needed funds of investment derivative.
                    Bill Gates his charity George Soros Warren Buffet and others, there are entire funds that track their movements, as regarding investment, and copycat their buys and sells. As they are so successful it provides usually for profit. And a big player, any one of them invested, provides a safety net to make bankruptcy a impossible. They provide membership on a board and if things go south will exert management control.
                    It is always a win win for the funds and that almost certainly would account for a influx of funds into the company. A CEO’s statement of anticipatory earning never moves a fund into investing. They simply all know the CEO is selling the prospectus to incite investment, it is part of the job.

                  2. Ron, you make an outrageous number of assumptions. ‘-) ‘-) ‘-)

                    But remember, opinions are like A_ _ holes. Everyone has one (unless they’ve had a colonoscopy) and they all stink.

                    Even way over here, your opinion stinks. ‘-)

                    1. The above was in reply to:

                      Funny……. did the focus group study do a check on the consumers response to a regular burger possible marked as free range or organic as opposed to a marked as GMO containing, fake burger…… which would a health conscious consumer buy?
                      I can guess well the answer to that. The success of this product may likely rest with the likely fact most do not know it is a GMO product.

                      The meat industry if this did present a threat at any time to profits, would certainly make that a known. Any discussion of this product or like product being widely accepted and used, completely fails to account for a industry presence in the space which is ready willing and able to provide a significant opposition to its displacement.

                      Media would suddenly become filled with articles on how safe really are GMO’s, and why they should be labeled…if this product at any time did start to present as threat.

                    2. Those that have no arguments will posit personal attacks.

                      Shifting from attacks on Dr Greger to me now I see…..good luck with that. It will draw few to your side.

                      “Even way over here, your opinion stinks. ‘-)”

                    3. At this point in time probably the easiest and most efficient response to any supporting the consumption of the miracle burger by anyone is simply this….
                      “Full Ingredient List:
                      Water, Textured Wheat Protein, Coconut Oil, Potato Protein, Natural Flavors, 2% or less of: Leghemoglobin (Soy), Yeast Extract, Salt, Konjac Gum, Xanthan Gum, Soy Protein Isolate, Vitamin E, Vitamin C, Thiamin (Vitamin B1), Zinc, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin B12
                      Contains:
                      Soy, Wheat”

                      “As for nutrition, three ounces has 220 calories, 13 grams of fat, 11 grams of saturated fat, 21 grams of protein, and 470 milligrams of sodium. The same amount of 80 percent lean ground beef has about the same calories and protein, and more total fat. But the Impossible Burger is higher in saturated fat and sodium.”

                      Speaks for itself really my argument. No need for name calling.

                    4. Ron

                      I think from the number of winking eye emoticons in Lonie’s post, she was pulling your leg and being deliberately provocative. I didn’t get the impression that she was being personally offensive,just that she is one of those people who likes to tell it like it is. And d a bit of teasing along the way.

                      Likely she has never been a candidate for the diplomatic service but I am pretty sure that she isn’t intending to be malicious – just forthright and outspoken

                    5. No offense Tom but I think you are misreading this one.

                      Here is a quite from Lonie earlier…”” Heh, you keep quoting a paraphrasing from someone who cherry picks data as your set in stone answer while I am referencing a well respected and decorated scientist, Dr. Pat Brown, who has and is inventing something that will literally change the world… Impossible Foods.”

                      This is not just trolling, or saying things to rile up the place there is intention here.
                      His stance is completely undefendable with this miracle burger he knows it and is trying to bait me to respond emotionally which I will not…..
                      My argument against this piece of filth presented as food in this now, on this stage of argument, being confronted with personal insult, is served by showing the ingredient list and nutritional profile of that inedible thing….

                      “Full Ingredient List:
                      Water, Textured Wheat Protein, Coconut Oil, Potato Protein, Natural Flavors, 2% or less of: Leghemoglobin (Soy), Yeast Extract, Salt, Konjac Gum, Xanthan Gum, Soy Protein Isolate, Vitamin E, Vitamin C, Thiamin (Vitamin B1), Zinc, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin B12
                      Contains:
                      Soy, Wheat”
                      “As for nutrition, three ounces has 220 calories, 13 grams of fat, 11 grams of saturated fat, 21 grams of protein, and 470 milligrams of sodium. The same amount of 80 percent lean ground beef has about the same calories and protein, and more total fat. But the Impossible Burger is higher in saturated fat and sodium.”

                      Which I may continue to do when insulted further. The argument about or against this burger speaks for itself and is quite saying a book.

                    6. As a aside Tom I have experience in this field of specific study.
                      I do currently hold interest in a health food retailer, though not of one specific mention to make my comments the result of bias. Though now my trading is really very minor I still hold some interest here and there. Just to stay in the game a bit.

                      I have no interest in any one kind of burger nor line produced by this company or that. But I have traded the space(health foods and food retail) for probably about ten years time in some capacity. And my trading experience itself which typically went on consistently in some manner was large volume 30 or so trades a month went on for about 20 years. Manageing six accounts for the better part of that. So I am not expressing a view that is totally without some merit in origination. I had to by necessity study.

                      Meaning I know this field and how it is played about better than most any here by my guess. Not that I am expert in the field of trading of things, certainly in the field my knowledge is minor, but that average Jane Or Joe simply does not have the slightest clue as to how thing are done.

                      Expressed here by a person thinking a CEO’s statement of anticipated earnings is going to inspire fund investment.

                    7. Funds majors, invest on a different basis than a typical stock investor or even a small fund. Large funds entry is determined by a number of things and study that can go on for up to a years time. Never is a large fund swayed by any one statement.
                      The company is extensively studied in every aspect as is the field of endeavor. Then the management team is assessed. It is a process little deviated from with quite a degree of elaboration. A single individual may be tasked with company research or a team. That is all they do all day in large funds. A large funds interests may at the end of the day in one year cover many pages listing companies with interest in. Soros, probably his quarterly will show five or six pages of investment.
                      The CEO’s CFO’s target with statement is not the large fund investor.

                    8. Ron says:

                      I do expand my condemnation of this product to include meat eaters as well. I can not honestly refer them to it regardless of any environmental harm….I have to simply refer them to any number of a hundred other veggie and vegan burgers on the market.

                      I would not feed this filth to my worst enemies dog or to my worst enemy…..it is a piece of filth with a nutritional profile that will likely produce cancer diabetes high blood pressure heart attack and who knows what else.
                      ———————————————————————————————————————————
                      Lon says:

                      Ron, I am *assuming BIG MEAT has gotten to you. Here is being presented a valid option to get people who just will not give up eating meat, an alternative that tastes good. (Vegetable burgers have been around how many years? Maybe have saved the slaughter of one cow, two pigs, and perhaps 20 chickens.)

                      *Since you are making outrageous assumptions, I can rebut using the same tactic. ‘-)

                    9. Lon said:

                      “Leave Tom alone. He is just fulfilling his role as Greger’s Rottweiler.”
                      ————————————————————————————————
                      Tom said:

                      Ron

                      in Lonie’s post, she was… didn’t get the impression that she was… just that she is…

                      Likely she has… that she isn’t…
                      ——————————————————————————————————
                      Heh, heh… touché Tome, well played. ‘-)

                      However, you may have alienated many of the female persuasion on here, associating my comments withe their gender.

      2. Look Nancy! See what you started?
        ———————————————————-

        Deb says:

        Lonie,

        I agree with Nancy.

        If it proves to not be harmful to the health of human beings, then, it is better than the alternative.

        I would worry about the Heme though, based on the link Ron just posted.

        That being said, it wouldn’t have maybe growth hormone or other things, so it might be less damaging than what it is replacing.

        It will be interesting to see.
        ——————————————————————————————————————
        See Nancy? You have followers!

        1. Lonie,

          The one thing from Dr Gregers Heme versus non-Heme discussion is that the vegans were getting more iron than the people relying on Heme, so that product would be for the people who don’t like the foods and need supplements and foods which taste like meat.

          Heme is going to imply animal product of some sort, so the audience will be the people trying to lower their meat consumption, but still want the experience. There is an audience for that.

          I still like the fake chickn burgers.

          And Nancy, I always value your comments.

          I wouldn’t consider myself a follower, but I do like that there is a community here and I find discussions helpful.

      3. Why is it I never hear vegetarians complain about the slaughter of mosquitos etc? Aren’t they animals just as cows, dogs and cats are? Don’t mosquitos, as fine upstanding animals, too deserve protection?

        1. Well Sydney veganism, not that I am one to set a standard as vegans may be into it for different reasons………is generally about producing less harm not no harm. The spread of diseases to humans by mosquitoes is present and prelevent in many places especially Africa and South America.

          WE produce harm by just being human as in eating even grains there are inevitably bugs killed in the harvest. But meat or not meat and dairy or not dairy in our present world are options available to us which will produce less harm and may as well improve out health as well.
          It is presently a no brainer.
          I live in a forest which means plenty of rodents. As they carry plague and hantavirus I must eliminate them when they attempt to harbor residency in my house, kids and all I also have responsibility for others. It does not mean I don’t work to see I don’t have to do that nor that I am not vegan when I occasionally do have to dispatch a few.
          They carry disease as mosquito does in other parts of the world. Vegan extremists such as some in PETA are the few that take exception to that. But they are few and do not represent the movement. . Humans are animals as well, we cannot disregard a life because it is human or not. So we must protect ourselves as well from harm with least harm as our guidance.

        2. Sydney, I assume you’re trying to be funny but considering that you’re joking about real and horrific suffering, it’s just offensive.

          If you’re actually being serious then I think that even you realize you’re being ridiculous. But if you need the argument settled, here you go:

          Veganism (different than vegetarianism) is about abstaining from the harm and use/exploitation of other animals by what is possible and practice. It is possible and practical not to enslave, torture, and murder an animal for their parts, for example. But it is impractical to allow yourself to be a mosquito feeding bag.

          I hope that helps.

        3. Sydney

          i think you are confusing vegetarians with Buddhists,.

          It is not necessary for survival and health to eat animal foods. That includes eating insects (common in some parts of Asia etc). So, what ethical reason can justify doing it?

          It is however necessary for survival and heath to eradicate disease carrying insects

      4. But iheme iron comes from animals so if they’re using heme iron, they’re still using animals for their product. Or is there some other way of getting heme iron that I’m unaware of?

        1. They have developed a new lab process which derives the heem from soybean root as I understand it combined with the action of genetically modified yeast..
          Soy I do not trust in refined form nor in gross gross amounts. IN lesser normal amounts it is great a great health benefit.

          So I started with that as my initial question….and remain with it.
          Moot point actually the miracle burger is a piece of filth with nothing to recommend it nutritionally. So it is mote really.

  4. My understanding is that in most people, liver glutathione is rate limiting factor in body’s ability to eliminate heavy metals. Taking it in supplement form has NOT been shown to increase body levels but read on for dietary info. Got this off the top of quick Google search (well actually DuckDuckGo since I sort of hate Google’s spy antics)

    https://www.rheumatoid-arthritis-decisions.com/Foods-that-boost-glutathione.html

    “… taking glutathione supplements orally did not boost glutathione levels in the blood.
    Supplying the building blocks of Glutathione

    Glutathione contains the following 3 amino acids linked together: Glutamate—cysteine–glycine.

    Cysteine is the scarcest of these 3 amino acids. So, by eating foods that are rich in cysteine, a sulphur-containing amino acid, you help boost your levels of glutathione.

    Foods containing high levels of sulfur-containing amino acids include raw eggs, garlic, onions and fresh unprocessed meats.

    Some foods, like raw goat whey are fairly high sources of glutathione and appear to be readily absorbed. (Just be careful of your source of raw goat milk.)

    Unfortunately, glutathione supplements taken orally are very poorly absorbed and have not raised glutathione levels in the blood. So save your money.

    In contrast, the glutathione precursor, N-acetyl-cystine provides sufficient sulphur containing amino acid (a duo or dimer of cysteine) to boost glutathione levels. NAC is readily absorbed and has helped AIDS patients boost their glutathione levels (DeRosa et al., 2000). I also take it because it helps me.
    Foods that boost glutathione levels.

    Several foods boost glutathione levels. For example, broccoli, brussels sprouts, cabbage and cauliflower all contain cyanohydroxybutene which increases glutathione levels.

    Avocados, peaches, and watermelon are also reported to raise glutathione levels.

    A study of Air Force pilots in England after WWII revealed that bilberry jam improves night vision. Further studies indicate that bilberry extracts boost glutathione production and support higher glutathione levels in the eyes. Glutathione is an essential nutrient for optimal vision. Thus, bilberry preserves or jam is another food that boosts glutathione levels.

    Several spices including cinnamon, cardamom and curcumin found in turmeric raise glutathione levels.

    Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA) promotes the synthesis of glutathione in the body. Food sources of ALA include spinach, broccoli, tomatoes, peas, Brussels sprouts, and rice bran.

    Although Real Hellman’s mayonnaise also lists 650 mg of ALA; this ALA refers to the essential omega-3 fatty acid, alpha linolenic acid. Alpha linolenic acid is essential for healthy bones but does not affect glutathione levels.
    Selenium forms part of critical enzymes in detox pathways

    Selenium is required for several glutathione-based enzymes during detoxification. That is, these enzymes link or “handcuff” the toxin with glutathione.

    If you’re low in selenium, then your body can’t produce optimal levels of detoxifying glutathione-based enzymes.

    One of the richest sources of selenium is brazil nuts (from brazil). You can easily snack on 2-4 nuts daily to get your 150-200 mcg of selenium. Brazil nuts can be purchased from many health food stores.

    Other sources of selenium are foods grown on selenium-rich soil, including other nuts, grains, meats, as well as most seafood.

    Boosting glutathione levels provided me a much needed break from pain. My physician, Dr. Buttram, recommended an iv infusion of glutathione and vitamin C. The pain decreased dramatically.

    I now include all of these foods that boost glutathione levels in my diet. I continue to feel better.

    Eating these 11 foods that boost glutathione will likely help you purge your body of toxins and feel better each day. “

    1. Interesting stuff. Being vegan much of it is not personally relevant however. But good stuff nevertheless.

      Only one possible mention to the negative brazil nuts. I think in most cases one nut may do the trick. But they do vary as to soil content grown in as to selenium content of the nut. But excess selenium can be toxic as well. It has a bell shaped curve for effective use.

    2. Unfortunately, glutathione supplements taken orally are very poorly absorbed and have not raised glutathione levels in the blood. So save your money.

      In contrast, the glutathione precursor, N-acetyl-cystine provides sufficient sulphur containing amino acid (a duo or dimer of cysteine) to boost glutathione levels. NAC is readily absorbed
      ———————————————————————————————————————————–
      Thanks for the post. I too am a big fan of N-Acetyl Cysteine.

      And while I do not eat a lot of food but rely on supplements, it got me wondering. That is, I have on hand a glutathione powder (although it is much more like granular sand in consistency.) I never take it alone but with a combination of other things that are, or come from dessicated plants.

      I’m just wondering out loud if being consumed with other “foods” may be assisting the glutathione in being assimilated through co-digestion with its accompanying nutrients.

      Not expecting an answer as I suspect there is no study done on this. Just throwing it out there as a possibility for my fellow “supplementers.” ‘-)

      1. Lonie said, “And while I do not eat a lot of food but rely on supplements, it got me wondering.”

        Wow. As one who hates to swallow pills and other potions, I’m MUCH rather eat the food. Yummier, too. And take the Vit B12, of course.

        1. Wow. As one who hates to swallow pills and other potions, I’m MUCH rather eat the food. Yummier, too. And take the Vit B12, of course.
          ——————————————————————————————————————————————

          Yeah, horses for courses kind of thing. It’s just that I have conquered my taste buds and in doing so have improved my health considerably after doing so.

          But I remember the days when taste was so important, and I understand your connection between consumption and taste.

    3. “A study of Air Force pilots in England after WWII revealed that bilberry jam improves night vision.”

      GeoffreyLevens,what study? Where? Oh right, there isn’t one. Yet another internet story that has never been verified but that some people will believe anyway.

      My favorite quote about this is from the clinical director of Duke Integrative Medicine (Durham, NC):
      “We’ve got this really sexy story, that it’s good for night vision, but there’s no evidence,” says Evangeline Lausier, MD. But she also says that because of the anthocyanosides in the fruit, “there are probably effects that make it part of a good diet.”

      1. Nancy, you may be right about there not being a study… I just don’t know.

        But as Anthocyanidins are generally considered to be healthful in regard to good vision, it is certainly plausible that bilberry (or its cousin the blueberry) are truly beneficial to one’s visual health, including night vision.

        1. Oh, never mind. I see you acknowledged this in your last line, which sort of nullifies the first part of your statement to a degree. ‘-)

          1. Just a thought… maybe it was a placebo effect that had the British Fighter Pilots able to score many kills during the nightime raids from the Luftwaffe over London in WWII. ‘-)

            1. Could be, Lonie, but I guess we’ll never know for sure. It’s a shame there’s no evidence to back up the WWII story. That’s why I like Dr. Lausier’s quote. She seems to lament the lack of evidence too, yet doesn’t throw the baby out with the bath water ;)

            2. The story I heard was that this story along with the similar carrot story was wartime disinformation intended to distract and divert German research and counter-efforts. In other words, it was designed to disguise the fact that the Brits had developed and deployed nightfighters equipped with airborne radars.

              1. Tom, the story you heard was marginally correct. From Wikipedia:

                developed a miniaturized RDF system suitable for aircraft, the on-board Airborne Interception Radar (AI) set (Watson-Watt called the CH sets the RDF-1 and the AI the RDF-2A). Initial AI sets were first made available to the RAF in 1939 and fitted to Bristol Blenheim aircraft (replaced quickly by the Bristol Beaufighter). These measures greatly increased Luftwaffe loss rates.

                To keep their new Airborne Interception radar technology secret, the British Ministry launched a propaganda campaign to attribute the new successes of their now AI-equipped night fighter aces not to technology, but instead to an excessive diet of carrots.[9] The misinformation pointed to the Vitamin A in carrots, which is used by the eye’s photorecetpor cells. While it is true that nutritional deficiencies of Vitamin A affect night vision[10], this misinformation may have propagated the worldwide myth that carrots let people see better in the dark.
                —————————————————————————————————————————————–
                As you can see the misinformation was about carrots. And the aircraft with onboard RADAR were Blenheims’ not Hurricanes or Spits.

                  1. About radar, I mean. Andrew’s plane was sabotaged during the test flights & crashed into a field. Something like that.

                    1. Don’t know as I can no longer receive PBS. Wish I could because the once or twice I saw it left me ready for more.

                      OTOH, I wouldn’t put too much stock in the accuracy of any created content. Sometimes, even if the researchers provide facts, writers will change them to make the story more exciting and perhaps create tension. The BBC is possibly not as bad as American movie makers about doing this, but I doubt they are totally innocent.

                1. That’s right. The Hurricanes and Spitfires were dayfighters. They had very little to do with successful nightfighter interceptions of Luftwaffe bombers. The most effective nightfighters were Boulton-Paul Defiants,,Blenheims and Beaufghters

      2. Yes Nancy…I think you are correct…”what study? Where? Oh right, there isn’t one”

        Looking into it years ago there is truth that they did try it during the way, giving local bilberry jam to pilots.
        Was it planned? I’d guess it may have been in local folklore so they did. And part of it was war and all rationing they had it to make jam from.. It is still used to make Jam.

        Did it work…I have found nothing that showed it did or did not work. Kills by pilots, have not a thing to do with bilberry jam and were all about what the advantages the planes they were in had.

        Considering the amount of damage due to bombing on England proper back in that day I would say the English pilots did what they could but were only marginally successful.

          1. Radar was helpful in directing the fighters to the location of the bombers, but the RAF did not have individual Radar equipment in each fighter.

            1. From go flight med…a site used by professional pilots focusing on pilot related health issues…

              “A double-blinded, randomized placebo-controlled study from 2000 published in the Alternative Medicine Review found that there was no improvement in night vision in XX young males taking bilberry extract when compared to those taking placebo.”

              No radar had nothing to do with kills it was all the tendencies and abilities of the planes they were in and the pilots familiarities with each planes strengths and weaknesses.

              Funny my account was just hacked…curious. I could dredge up the study in actual if necessary but it is probably not.

              1. “A double-blinded, randomized placebo-controlled study from 2000 published in the Alternative Medicine Review found that there was no improvement in night vision in XX young males taking bilberry extract when compared to those taking placebo.”

                While I am a proponent of some Alternative Medicines, I wonder how their studies are set-up. I would be concerned if they are done on an intuitive basis rather than a strict scientific basis. Not saying that’s the case, just something to be clarified.

                Also would be curious of the differences in the diet of a 1939 WWII pilot and a 2000 study subject. Does the 2000 study subject have better nutrition that automatically accounts for the effects of bilberry, therefore making the bilberry effects rendered moot as they are already in place?

                1. Well I can start here then will our NIH suffice….from their site on Bilberry..
                  “We have very few high-quality clinical trials (studies in people) of bilberry supplements.
                  What Have We Learned?
                  There’s not enough scientific evidence to support the use of bilberry for any health conditions.”

                  Really I can go on. Did this a while back.

        1. Kills by pilots, have not a thing to do with bilberry jam and were all about what the advantages the planes they were in had.
          —————————————————————————————————————————–
          Ron, I don’t mean to sound argumentative, but it is possible that bilberry jam had a LOT to do with kills by pilots.

          Remember, we are talking about night fighting where the RAF were taking on German bombers in the dark. I think one could argue that a Hurricane or Spitfire were not at an advantage if the pilot could not “see” his target.

        2. Ron says:
          Considering the amount of damage due to bombing on England proper back in that day I would say the English pilots did what they could but were only marginally successful.
          ————————————————————————————————————–
          Winston Churchill says:

          “Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few…”

          1. No offense Lonie I have natives by majority in my family and consider this man Churchill a heinous colonialist who attempted to refuse India their freedom.

            I know you do not represent him but only quoted in the west is the glorious side of the man.

            1. I understand your personal bias against the man. Even though I am of British ancestry in part and I do admire his bull-doggedness during WWII, still I have no personal connection to the man. In re: trying to hold on to India, I suspect he thought he was acting in Great Britain’s best interests. ‘-)

              The quote used was an easily recognizable reply to your comment the RAF flyers weren’t particularly successful in the Battle Of Britain.

              1. Well they did heroic things. But they were getting killed right and left. Despite their great losses they stayed in the fight the pilots did…so I have nothing but praise for them. They should have had better planes to my opinion especially in the beginning.
                WC famously stated he would not be in charge when the British empire was devolved by the loss of India having been in charge and fought so hard to continue it in the war .

                It was devolved but the real good thing would have for him to have admitted to it…so much less loss of life would have occurred. In the end he was locally unpopular. After the war he could not manage the peace.

                1. They should have had better planes to my opinion especially in the beginning.
                  ——————————————————————————————————-

                  Ummm, the Battle of Britain was fought with Hawker Hurricanes and the more famous Spitfires. They were available from the beginning and were considered superior performers. If memory serves, the RAF also flew American made Mustang P-51s later in the war, along with the Spits and the Hurricanes.

                  The German ME-109 was also a superior fighter but had no part that I’m aware of in the Battle of Britain. (Not sure but I think they became operational later)

                  The real difference maker in re: fighter planes was the American Mustang P-51. It had the range to escort the 8th Air Forces’ B-17 bombers deep into Germany during daylight raids, cutting B-17 losses greatly.

                  1. This from wiki Lonnie about the hawker being considered superior…
                    “As a fighter, the Hurricane had some drawbacks. It was slightly slower than both the Spitfire I and II and the Messerschmitt Bf 109E, and the thicker wing profiles compromised acceleration; but it could out-turn both of them. In spite of its performance deficiencies against the Bf 109, the Hurricane was still capable of destroying the German fighter, especially at lower altitudes. The standard tactic of the 109s was to attempt to climb higher than the RAF fighters and “bounce” them in a dive; the Hurricanes could evade such tactics by turning into the attack or going into a “corkscrew dive”, which the 109s, with their lower rate of roll, found hard to counter. If a 109 was caught in a dogfight, the Hurricane was just as capable of out-turning the 109 as the Spitfire. In a stern chase, the 109 could evade the Hurricane.[83]”

                    The historical tendency since the thing was paid for by the people and the poltiicians approve it…is to paint all equipment as being superior.

                    Truth is like as not the Germans in the beginning at least often had superior weaponry. This was especially noteable in the tanks but to a lesser degree others. It was plain and simple slow. They remedied it a little later with a faster version.
                    I could get into it but it would be very far off topic.

                    1. Ron, you make a very good case for the superiority of the Hawker Hurricane in re its turning capabilities during a dogfight with an ME 109.

                      I’ll supplement your good work with a quote, also from Wiki, to back up your claim.

                      Although overshadowed in the public consciousness by the Supermarine Spitfire’s role during Battle of Britain in 1940, the Hurricane actually inflicted 60 percent of the losses sustained by the Luftwaffe in the engagement. The Hurricane went on to fight in all the major (sic) theatres of The Second World War.

                    2. The problem with Brits faced was the lack of pilots for the planes. Why was that, as so many were shot down. Actually having the field of battle being over the nation was a advantage for recovery of pilots.
                      A strategic advantage occurred with Churchills appointment of a no nonsense guy to attend to the increased production of aircraft. The place became literally awash with planes so much so they had to continually lower standards to qualify pilots. I think the rule ended up being ten hours of flight time and you were good to go into battle.

                      And the problem with the 109 was their fuel capacity and remote location for takeoff left only ten minutes to supply escort duty when over England.
                      As to actual claimed stats in battles who shot down who according to who I tend to go with auxiliary information to determine superiority. In the end the Brits exerted superiority. But it was as much a German decision to move air resources to the other front and the increased production more than anything.

                      Out here in New Mexico at the university I had access to stats from battles way back in the day, the translations from the Spanish when they conquered the natives. So many were outright falsehood intersperced with truth I came to look askance of any battle claims of actual totals. By their records the Spanish of that day and time killed by their own hand what approximated to larger numbers than existed of all peoples in select areas.
                      Success in report was tied into the Spanish monarchy and increased funding and liberty for this or that area in the new world. So there was motive for misplaced stats. As there is often in todays time.

                      The pilots did great with what they had. They came up with ways to fight the superiority of the German 109 but that does not infer their planes were superior. Type of air tactics employed depends upon to a extend the task the fighter is given. A low altitude dog fight a 109 is at a disadvantage. A high altitude dog fight with protection of a bomber as task and a 109 is advantaged.

                      So it depends. In the end outside circumstances is why the brits won the skies not the pilots. The two mains I have stated. increased production and relocation of german airfleets.

            2. Ron, I guess a lot of British people felt (& still feel) that way. That’s why Churchill lost the 1945 election and Attlee won by a landslide.

              1. Ron, I guess a lot of British people felt (& still feel) that way. That’s why Churchill lost the 1945 election and Attlee won by a landslide.

                Not sure how you can say what was the reason for losing the post war election.

                You do know that he did become Prime Minister again, don’t you?

                1. Yes, Attlee won a landslide victory in 1945 & was narrowly defeated in 1951. There were many reasons why people didn’t vote for Churchill in ’45. The issues Ron mentioned, along with his role in the controversial Dresden bombings (along with the US) made him very unpopular.

      3. I remember hearing about the bilberry “study,” that was back when I was naive and had some faith in the world thinking that people wouldn’t make up or spread false information while posing as an authority on the subject.

        But bilberry jam aside, I had an amazing experience in vision improvement from going WFPB. Despite never needing glasses when I was little, in my later teens I started to see things blurry from far away and even somewhat up close, my night vision got pretty bad too, so I was certain that I was going to need glasses/contacts or laser surgery to correct the problem. After going vegan and then switching to a more WFPB diet, I can say that today, my vision is perfect! I noticed a gradual change but didn’t pay too close of attention and then just realized some months later that “hey! I have no more vision problems!”
        Probably wasn’t getting enough vitamin A, zeaxanthin and lutein and I’m sure other factors of a WFPB diet helped.

  5. Funny but our side tends like as not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    It is not heme iron found a obvious killer but iron of any type…so they avoid iron and become anemic.
    It is not animal protein that causes a problem but protein in general….so they avoid plant protein and see their muscles wasting away(who needs them I guess they say)
    It is not this or that particular calcium supplement and the grossly abnormal amount they are taking in one pop but calcium in general…so they avoid all calcium supplements in calcium deficient diets(check out how much kale one has to consume to get the RDA of calcium some day) and anticipate that they will not have signs of osteoperosis but find they do..

    And on and on. Not really seeing the limitations of the studies they are basing the generalizations upon.

  6. Curious if anyone including dr Greger has heard of or had experience w Dr Chris Shade of Quicksilver Scientific? He seems to be doing cutting edge work – and yes supports his line of products they develop – to help people cleanse, in particular from heavy metals. Someone above mentioned Glutiathione supplements don’t work – he’s got a liposomal glutathione, which I’m told you can make at home – check YouTube – but that is the most efficient way to boost that in your system. Seems complex but it also seems when people are over burdened and overly toxic – and their systems of detox are subsequently over burdened ie the kidneys and liver – it seems a more concentrated and targeted, precision approach – dr shades protocol – along w this diet is the best route. Curious if anyone else has had experience with the above

    1. No personal experience but as regards nutritional sites……if the first page of a site has multiple supplements for sale I will avoid it…something is afoot and it is usually about selling the supplements.

      Four I think on his site at high price levels for comparitve products elsewhere.

      1. Just checked out the multivitamin one…50 doilars for a 20 serving bottle that provides a make up I can replicate in any health food store or on amazon for about 20 dollars for a 30 serving bottle. Very nice bottle however pretty.

        I just chuck a site out the window if I see stuff like that. If the group has interesting good things to say they are doing the saying in curious ways with a bow tie of money wrapped around it.

        1. Here is the ingredient list from the multi…
          “Each 5 mL of Liposomal Ultra Vitamin® delivers 7890 mg Vitamin A (14% as Beta-Carotene), Vitamin B1 (Thiamine Hydrochloride), 12.5 mg Vitamin B2 (as Riboflavin 5’-Phosphate), 7.5 mg Vitamin B3 (as Niacin and Niacinamide), 10 mg Vitamin B5 (as Calcium d-Pantothenate),25 mg Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxine Hydrochloride), 7.5 mg Vitamin B7 (Biotin), 500 mg Vitamin B9 (as Folinic Acid), 500 mcg Vitamin B12 (as Methyl Cobalamin),120 mg Vitamin C (as sodium ascorbate), 2500 IU Vitamin D3, 34 mg Vitamin E, 45 mcg Vitamin K1, 45 mcg Vitamin K2, 25 mg Betain Anhydrous (Trimethylglycine), 24 mg Tocotrienols, 3. 4 mg Lutein,680 mg Zeaxanthin, and 850 mcg Lycopene. A serving size is 1 teaspoon. Each bottle contains 20 servings.”

          This is all supplement wise bread and butter stuff nothing particularly special bout it. Zeaxanthin Lycopene about ten years or more ago they may be rare in a multi…no longer this is common stuff not worth anything close to 50 USD for 20 servings.

          It is a good multi…just way overpriced.One is enough for me I don’t need to check out his entire lineup. Probably more of the same.

          1. Can you find a comparable multi w the liposomal technology they espouse? That’s the distinguishing characteristic they “sell”

            Hard to throw something out merely due to association w selling something – like throwing out an author because they sell books. How would they support their research etc? I get what you’re saying and I think there’s something to it. I too exercise what I hope is “healthy” skepticism.

            From the personal research I’ve done it’s rare to find a supplement that’s cheap that is as good, unfortunately, as the expensive high end stuff. Could be placebo but my experience has been you get what you pay for

            1. Nah…..”Could be placebo but my experience has been you get what you pay for”

              Absolutely not in fact. I know many supplement manufacturers and seller who market things under their name and use themselves in advertising to sell their product at inflated prices.
              That is the game in fact. Most conspicuously this is present in the sports supplement field but it translates out to almost all of those selling things on internet sites.

              liposomal technology…what are you kidding. That is the ingredient list I did not omit a thing. Cut copy and paste .

                  1. I’m not here to argue – I’m not learning anything particularly new here from your comments – but you haven’t addressed the liposomal delivery system – do you know what that is or why it’s important? This would in theory justify the cost

                    1. Yes I do actually it is…mumbo jumbo oppsi doopsie whammo bammo….this is the thing I add, (forgot the hocus pocus). so I can charge you three times the price for my item as opposed to somebodies else’s.

                      ” but you haven’t addressed the liposomal delivery system – do you know what that is or why it’s important? ”

                      I am quite familiar with it. In the pharma industry it is patent as opposed to generic. But even though they are normally thought of as way way worse they usually only charge about twice as much…showing me what total lack of regulation at a governmental level produces.

            1. Ok here is another check of his product line…… 5HTP 120 caps 100 mg dose….59 USD.
              So I go do a open search Puritans Pride first comes up…. 120 caps 5 HTP 100mg dose ` …18 USD.

              He does have the common sense to keep the product line off the front page…I will give him that credit.

              Yeah I know…add hocus pocus boogie woogie…presto change….. his product becomes worthy of paying almost three times more than the same thing without all the magic.

              `

    2. No experience with any of that, but my liver was seriously messed up after a serious and almost deadly mistake was done to me in a hospital and I completely healed my liver eating a 100% plant based diet centered around whole foods. I didn’t take any supplements to accomplish it, just ate lots of plants. But I’m not knocking whatever supplements you’re referring to, although I do think whole plant foods are the best and most healing things we can give to our bodies.

    3. In my experience, when alternative health practitioners/internet health entrepeneurs are described as ‘cutting edge’. it is usually code for inconsistent with the known science, highly speculative and highly expensive. Add ‘detoxidication’ to the mix, and my instinct is to run not walk to the nearest exit.

      Personally, I wouldn’t touch these people or their products with a barge pole.

  7. I am laughing reading all of the comments.

    Back to the video.

    Hooray, I am detoxing just being vegan.

    The stupid Fiji Water (which I don’t recommend, because of how they treat their island and because they don’t ship their product refrigerated and failed the bad bacteria test) did help me with the hallucinations from Alzheimer’s. It has been more than a month and the hallucinations are still gone. They stopped after about 3 weeks on it. I haven’t started working on sleep yet, and haven’t decreased stress, so it was the detoxing with silica water. Yesterday, I was pondering trying Volvic silica water on my dog for a few weeks to see if he needs detoxing from things in his vaccinations or some other toxins. Good to know that putting him on a Vegan diet is already bringing the toxins down.

    1. Ha…my poor poor dog.
      Took her on a run in the heat on the trails a hour or so….came back drank to much water and, there goes the couch. Vomit everywhere. All water

      Loves it so I cannot deny her the run though. About half of it is shaded in the forest. Dogs just cannot take heat as human can.

      1. Aww poor baby! Do you take water for her for during the run? That might help. They sell water bottles specifically designed for dogs, of course a simple bottle and bowl would do.

        1. My runs are continuous there is no stopping for water nor this nor that. And they are inclusive of sprints three or so 20 sec duration . And they are conducted in the middle of a forest at 7200 feet. This is trail running in the mountains. Manzanita actually they call them. No water stops no people at all it is rare I run into a one.

          Water is available before and after the run for me and dog. I do when it is hot, wet dog down before the run.

          1. I would talk to a vet though, Ron. Her throwing up after is a sign of dehydration and that’s dangerous. If she’s on a leash it’s not like she can speak up and tell you that she needs water. Obviously if she’s throwing up, taking a water break might be necessary for her health or what you could do is go on a separate, less diligent run or even walk through the woods with just her. We have to put the health and safety of animals and kids before our own diligence because we’re responsible for them.

            1. I have had dogs of varying sort for a good 50 Years.
              I recognize you are trying to do a good thing in offering advice but this discounts my experience with animals which you do not know of.
              This particular dog will vomit whenever she has her stomach to full with water. That can be when she is just lying around all day or after a run. The run, sure she is feeling the heat and feels the need to drink more. Yes it is connected to the heat her vomiting but it is not a medical emergency. No it is not a medical thing, she has plenty of checkups and vaccinations of recent sorts. Nothing is wrong with her it is just as she is. I had a dog who used to poop about every hour or so…lived a fine long healthy life, there is variance to dogs depending on breed and disposition.

              She will also fill up prior to the run immediately when I announce it, being a very astute dog.
              She is not on a leash, the law here is under control when in the national forest. She stays by my side as she knows the coyotes will kill and eat her if she does not do so.

              Funny at times this thing of dog…. In cold weather here I get the weather forcasters always telling us all…bring pets in it is going to be very cold .
              I sleep outdoors with the coyotes and that includes each and every type of weather. Dog gets quite upset if I try to leave her indoors and not allow her my bed in any weather…I have tried.
              But just looking at it from a third point….dog abuse he forces the dog outside it will be neg 15 F tonight…..we are with the coyotes sleeping peacefully stars snow and breezes abound. The coyotes me and dog we do not mind the weather cold nor hot. Once human perhaps was this way, I suspect so. The great Khan said, in earlier days, those who sleep in houses they are less than us who sleep in tents and open air. He was heinous but all he said was seemingly not as well.

              1. In another life I made a bet with a god….we were discussing human and their faulted ways……see I said, if I was as them, I would remember, yes I would…I was god once and still am…..circumstance will not thwart that, nor my ability to know that…..No, he said, you are like them, it is only circumstance, you will forget.

                I have remembered and conduct myself accordingly. So strange I am to human, though I am as human. My ways and conduct make sense to no one who has not remembered. Bet, I have won, and this is but play and pleasure in this field of sensation. .
                When it ends I will be glad and sad, but mostly feeling nothing at all. He will have learned though I suspect he now knows. The game is lightly played mostly it is circumstance of great luck Once it was great pain trial and tribulation..
                So it is in my world… other rules are not so much relevant nor followed nor advise generally accepted on it. Most conduct is well thought and not arbitrary in nature.

                In any early day I would be found out as different and burned at the stake. No matter I would still know….I am god.
                I always await the possibility of pitchfork as they can sense difference and it upsets them…but no matter I am god. It is just I perhaps remember a earlier day when such did happen in common form and my remembering was not so clear. .

                1. That is not a parable nor a story not a lesson nor a teaching….it is a statement of fact.
                  I don’t desire any to know who I am nor that I live.
                  Others perhaps they all are as I am, I don’t really know. I know this is fact. So very rarely is advice taken.

                  1. The giving of advice is the human part of us. The compulsion is based on a earlier time, The tribe whose member found a waterhole upon roaming and came back and talked of it and led them to it was the tribe that lived. So we all have this compulsion.

                    Do any follow advice in this day and time..yes, but only with authority. It was also in our evolution action was by the leader. After hearing the story that tribe succeeded, on their determination with action by the leader. Or else we would be going everywhere wandering aimlessly in all sorts of directions.

                    But we all have as human, this aspect to us, to express opinion and suggestion, and also in another form to be compassionate. But that is a different matter. Both are present in human always to be happy generally they must be exercised or we fail in that. Compassion also is why one tribe succeeded and another not. So it is in all humans that remain. Beaten down or crushed by circumstance these tendencies remain crushed into another form at times, to appear some other things perhaps of harm. .

                    1. Which, the idea of one as god remembering it…is straight out of Indian religious myth and probably 6000 Years old.

                      I recount that story to a audience of bloggers in India and it is recognized immediately. I recount a myth of Christian Islamic or Judistic intention to the same audience and it also is recognized immediately. The US no, even with degree it is not known other philosophy or religion.
                      Dogs in US when very old and dying are put down. It is actually illegal and cruel dog abuse to not do so here in some places.
                      In INdia the thing is with a dog is to let them live out their death for causes of karma generally, it is never put down that is considered inhumane to kill a dying family member.

                      So things with dogs I explain in the lengthiest form available, are done in differing manners. But it is not I have not thought about how to handle things with dog ;)

                    2. Wowsie, Ron…were you channeling some of that? “wink-wink” ;-)

                      I’m sure I was Native American in more than one (linear) lifetime. I love everything about their culture, including the jewelry and music. When they die they go to (“The Happy Hunting Grounds.”)

                      You actually sleep outdoors every night no matter what the weather? I’ve heard it’s healthier to not even sleep in a bed, but rather on the floor. Dunno where I heard that — maybe I’ll sleuth it down.

                    3. Nah no channeling.
                      Sorry by Indian I meant from India it is not native American religious myth. That general concept is from India (human as remembering god status) and is coupled with a thought the universe is actually using human and progression in things, its change, big bang and all that…to learn its own nature, considered in whole as a living organism. Human self knowledge as god is considered a part of that process. Universes are in varying stages of evolvement and devolvement continually it is thought.

                      Which is a expression of thought and philosophy which coincides to a degree with scientific found items of this sort..
                      The anthropological data related to psychological need I expect may be found in source specific to the area. Which is rather remote and hard to find in a internet fashion as it is rarely a subject of discussion. More so it is still book knowledge.

                      Dogs reflect culture and our treatment of them is more a statement of our cultural response than really what is necessarily good or healthy for them. We little really study that and depend upon our human needs and requirements and put it onto them.
                      Our thought of superiority due to technological advancement is simply misplaced. I express that through our lack of knowledge of other religious philosophy…the west is little suited to my opinion due to educational deficit to look objectively on many manners and reflect good suggestion for conduct.

                      Some shamanistic thought supposes a elevated sleep is beneficial that popularized by Carlos Canstenada and those (still around till this day though he long passed)..
                      I like outdoors as a connection first assumed at with my experience for ten years or so of wilderness living a month and a half on average for about ten years time.

                    4. AHso. Well, many moons ago I was deep into Eastern philosophy (it still influences my life). I took all the Paramahansa Yogananda lessons (Autobiog. of a Yogi”) and I continue to “do yoga” in my bedroom every morning — and for the past many years. Am VERY sure I lived in India before too. :-)

                      As for dogs, I grew up with a dog but in my later years became a cat lover. Cats rule!

                    5. I developed a allergy to cats. It did not present typically with little to recommend in in normal conventional terms of cat allergy.
                      I suffer a bout of hospitalized pneumonia and being healthy and all knew something was wrong. Sitting in the sun on return I noticed bits of hair floating in the air.

                      Gave the cat back to its original owner and walla….presto solvo…no problems years ago that.
                      I was going a classical asthmatic or COPD route by symptoms wheezing on runs and this and that…and it was all cat and allergy.

                      Self diagnosed and self treated. But I wonder how many others have that. I actually am extremely reactive in the same limited way….around a person who even owns cats and I notice a change being remote from.cat
                      Strange. My docs docs were completely useless in solving what could have been a life threatening emergency 25% of those hospitalized for pneumonia die. And I was to some regard symptomatic for years.

                      Completely 100% gone for years now. Up to the docs I was COPD or asthmatic and home O2 I guess…but I run almost daily and function with 45 pound back pack easily at 12000 feet, being generally very fit…..but the docs don’t tend to listen . nor ask for personal history so much..

                      The tell I guess was in being able to do so well…when not around cat. I remember arguing with one doc on it…charged 400 for the privilege of the discourse..

                    6. My sister is allergic to cats too. When I lived in NYC (with two long-lived, lovable cats), she couldn’t stay in the apartment when visiting. Had to stay in a hotel instead. :-(

                      However, she has other allergies as well. Maybe some people are more allergy-prone than others. (?)

                    7. I have no other allergies. Seeing the hair floating in the sun..perhaps it was generated by that extreme continual exposure is my guess.

                      Most cats their hair will not float around like that. I mean when brushing or doing this or that sure…this was very light and would just float around the room not descending forever it seems just floating around. So sure being breathed in.
                      That is my guess.

                      Sadly the person I gave the cat back to gave it to another who put the cat In a shelter. I went to the shelter to try to retrieve it but they had no record on it nor that she had brought it there. I found about it a month or so late however.
                      And that person is a complete AH so I did not want to talk to them.

                      I probably just would have kept having the cat completely shaved…so sad. How peoples can give cats to shelters is also beyond me. Makes one a AH always to my opinion.Maybe new kittens perhaps.

              2. Well different breeds handle certain weather conditions very differently… It doesn’t take long for dogs to get frost bite but as you’ve said, they’re referring to people who leave their helpless animals outside, not sit with them and provide adequate shelter and know what’s going on with them.
                I would personally take water for your dog with me in case of emergency if nothing else, but it’s good to know the issue doesn’t seem to be from the run or heat. Do you know why she throws up from a lot of water? And do you think encouraging her to drink more frequently as opposed to guzzling might help? I’m not trying to be derogatory, just genuinely asking.

                  1. Well you are likely not Hindu. Hindu has great variance but the idea we are all gods who have forgotten it, and are spending our lives reincarnated remembering it, is a well known of concept. Millions are aware of it and follow the basic idea. Hindu is not a religion of worship of cows and such in majority. It is lessened conceptually by westerners to make it equal to western Abrahamic religions Christianity islam and judism. Hindu many, consider all western religions inferior and quite often the purview in the lead of azura/demons.

                    But Hindu has great variance and it does depend upon which form one is in.
                    I am not hindu, formally, in western consideration but have much formal and have many empowerments in Buddhism. However Buddhism and Jainism are considered formally to be parts of Hindu.Though most Buddhists would firmly deny that view outside of India.

                    So it is a bit complex. I also am not Buddhist though I hold training initiation and empowerment..but all of this makes little sense to a westerner as they are complex philosophical parts of religion they are not familiar with.
                    They are only familiar with the ….in the beginning was the word type of objectification present in their Bible.
                    Such thought is logically disconstructed in Buddhist argument. It as position is considered inferior.

                1. Dogs vary. Years back I had two dogs. One dog would follow along with me when hot, the other decided it was to taxing when I went long 8 or so miles and would go a mile or so and then loop around and go back.
                  They were free to do as they please and seemed to know what to do depending on how they felt.

                  1. They coexist with me with some limitations. They go with me when they want and if they want.
                    If they do not they do not it is fine. Normal Americans consider they own their dogs.
                    I provide protection but I am not their master.

                    This dog today with heat would go from shade spot to shade spot and dig a little dent and lie down and wait for me.
                    So it enjoyed that and did some mock charges of play when we came home. Then we took a nap.

                    1. This western kind no personal offense to you, they killed the vegetarians of their place back in the day. The cathars their descendents still exist today and their tales are differing than the tales of the catholic church who murdered them.

                      They had a complex view of religion so they were murdered By the cathars accounts 1 million. By the churches account 20,000 or so.
                      They were in the main vegetarians,which is the vegan root….that is the western solution to religious complexity…eradicate it in case it spreads.

                      So I understand others not understanding complexity..it has been weeded out of us.
                      Vegans should remember our history but most no nothing of this. The leader of the inquisition his son a picture hangs in the US house of representative halls. And his lineage is now and has been a present lord in the house of lords. Married to a clothier oddly enough the cathars were largly clothiers. He this demon was killed by a rock thrown from the arm of a cathar woman.

                      The first womans notion of equality in europe it began with the cathars.

      1. Good link LT.

        I read years ago that Silica was important and that we can get it from watermelon.

        I recently bought some powdered Canary seed Dietary Supplement and it made a big deal about being Silica Free.

      2. Thanks LT!

        I will look into it.

        The silica genuinely helped me, but they don’t let the locals use their own spring as a water source made FIji water make me think of their people getting rationed water and having water based diseases. I hate when businesses are run without compassion.

      3. Although there were a few very preliminary studies indicating cilantro might help clear the body of mercury in mice, a more recent review wasn’t so promising:
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3654245/ Chelation: Harnessing and Enhancing Heavy Metal Detoxification—A Review

        Cilantro (leaves of Coriandrum sativum), a popular culinary and medicinal herb, gained attention when a soup was reported to enhance mercury excretion following dental amalgam removal and remains popular despite limited evidence [46]. In animals, it decreased lead absorption into bone and inhibition of the delta-aminolevulinic acid dehydratase (ALAD) enzyme [47]. Less encouragingly, in a recent trial in 3- to 7-year old children exposed to lead, a cilantro extract was as effective as placebo in increasing renal excretion (improvements across treatment and placebo groups were ascribed to improved diet during the intervention) [48].”

    2. Hi Deb,

      I hate to beat a dead horse, but cows that are 100% grass fed do not get any by products of beef, chicken etc. The supposedly organic feed they give to chickens to produce the eggs I eat many be another story though.

  8. I have total faith in plant foods, not just with eliminating exposure but their natural detoxing effects. I think if they did more human studies on chelation they’d find a lot more powerful known specific plant foods that significantly chelate heavy metals. My guess is that cilantro and chlorella are likely as beneficial at chelating humans of heavy metals as found in other animal studies or rather medical torture (might as well call it what it is), so it’d be nice if the scientific community as a whole would stop tormenting animals and use their time and resources for relevant things. Of course I do wish I had said information when I had my rat Milo before he passed, but as Gandhi said, “I abhor vivisection with my whole soul. All the scientific discoveries stained with innocent blood I count as of no consequence.”

      1. Aww, that’s awesome Miki! Our little Milos <3 That’s amazing you were able to rescue him! I adopted mine from someone who got rid of him… fools.

  9. And why must they always include dairy on these otherwise plant based trials? Why are people so obsessed with cheese and yogurt! Imagine the charts had they gone completely plant based.

  10. The fastest way to eliminate metals from the body is to use Betonite green clay, the Russians used this for the people of Chernobyl when they had their big explosion. There is a food grade one and a non food grade one.The latter being made into a paste with clean water (not from the tap) and then placed on the soles and the rest of the feet.

    1. Anne please show some documentation or study to support these particular statements. It is nice to know your opinion but I need to have a bit more to go on.

      1. HI Ron, yes if you google search PUB Med Betonite Green Clay you will see there experiments on it’s healing powers but here is a useful link you will find very helpful.  The Green clay is a pain killer on aching muscles and also draws out the green painful infections in wounds.  Bentonite Clay Articles and Info on Healing Clay

        | | | | | |

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        | | | | Bentonite Clay Articles and Info on Healing Clay

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          1. Thanks Anne I did check that link and it appears that they are not selling anything. It seems this site is beset with links to people and places selling things at the present time, which is why I exercise caution. Everything from liposermals to miracles is apparently being hawked.

            I don’t find much in the way of actual good scientific study to recommend it but perhaps some is out there.
            Thanks for the info.

            1. I’m sorry Anne it has occurred to me you may not be completely following this discussion…
              Liposermals are things added to a product line to make what one is selling apparently worth three times in cost that of a competitor.
              And miracles are these things called burgers, that appear upon study to be designed to kill off the human race with their heme iron saturated fat various gums and gross salt content…….in the interest some say of saving the environment.

              To backround

            2. Hi Ron,I do highly recommend it because when two lots of anti-biotics would not remove the boil/abscess on my back the doctor told me it would have to be surgically removed. So while I was waiting for the procedure and the pain from the abscess was increasing I made up a paste of the green clay and applied it twice or three times a day, the pain eased and the paste drew out the poison and in a week it was much improved with no pain and shortly after completely gone and no scar, so I avoided the time and money spent on going through the operation. My doctor was surprised at my outcome and wanted to know what I did.
               I also removed a black lump like wart from my dogs paw completely. The article site I sent to you had lots of feed back and explaining how it works, there is one on how it removes mercury from the body.  Also if the *scientists* in  PUB MED says that it kills a bacteria which is resistant to eleven types of anti-biotics and also is good for the flesh eating disease I have no problems with that.

        1. O know there’s claims about bentonite clay and chelation, I’m hoping Dr. Greger does a video on it in the future. I would want to know more before I ingested it, but u always keep some around – it makes a great tooth paste and works as a very purifying facial. I never heard of “bentonite green clay.” I only know of bentonite clay and French green clay.

          1. Hi Shaylen,  yes I keep both the food grade one and the non-food grade in my home all the time, it’s also important to note that clean water is used otherwise if it’s from the tap the clay starts to pull the fluoride and any other chemicals out first and may not be as effective, the same if using a metal spoon it works on the metal also.  So a wood stick to stir it or a cotton tip.  There are many clays but the Betonite French green clay is the most healing one. I buy mine at a local heath shop for a few dollars by weight, I would never be without it.  I use it on my hip when I feel pain from my hip replacement and it works!.

            1. Good thing I always use my filtered water with it! I knew not to use metal in it. I’be had great experience with bentonite clay for topical and oral care use, I’ll look for the green bentonite clay next time I buy some.

  11. Off the subject a bit:

    “Dr Beck explained that as far back as the 1950s it was known that garlic reduced reaction time by two to three times when consumed by pilots taking flight tests. This is because the toxic effects of garlic desynchronize brain waves. “The flight surgeon would come around every month and remind all of us: “Don’t you dare touch any garlic 72 hours before you fly one of our airplanes, because it’ll double or triple your reaction time. You’re three times slower than you would be if you’d [not] had a few drops of garlic.”

    http://kurma.net/essays/e19.html

    (Dr. Furhman wouldn’t like what’s said about onions, no doubt.)

    1. Hmm in some sects of Buddhism garlic and actually most onions are considered prohibited for monks to consume. Though it has seemingly many health benefits.
      Perhaps there is something to that.I have always wondered why they did.

      1. Ron, I believe that it’s any root vegetable that they don’t use and I believe it’s due to the uprooting, and thus “killing” the plant to harvest it. This is just my brief understanding based on what I’ve heard, I can’t tell you if this is so for sure.
        But there are many benefits to onions and garlic. In one of Dr. Greger’s older videos on the best food for fighting cancer, garlic seemed to always come out on top for all different types of cancer. Amazing stuff. Also one of the best foods for lowering lead levels – in another one of Dr. Greger’s videos.

        1. S thank you for the reply and that may be true. Buddhism has many sects and two major forms with much variance.

          The form I have study and multiple empowerments in, Kagyu, has garlic as a stimulator of something related to sex to my dim recollection. Heat producing. So for monks that would be prohibitive. But it seems not to make sense as it has not this property.
          A lowering of cognition which a lowered reaction time speaks of, would be a reason. Things get lost with time and twisted around.
          I have heard some ventures on the why to include digestive upset the smell being offensive to mention but two but they vary so much it is hard to say.

          1. It would be the killing of insects in the pulling of the root crop. Plants are not considered sentient.
            Ceremony is endeavored for instance when one is building a house. For the bugs one may kill by accident.

            1. To add s..
              I personally assume and am about certain by observation, trees and such have sentience.

              I believe the teacher Buddha had to know this as well. By my guess he did not mention or claim this, as with that known, life for human would be just to unbearable and self death would ensue.

              So to protect human life he stated this.

    2. I don’t believe that at all, sounds similar to the bilberry claim. My mind and reflexes have gotten much quicker since going WFPB and I don’t go a day without at least two cloves of garlic. Sounds silly.

    1. Hello- I’m Dr Anderson, a cardiologist and Health Support Volunteer. I’ve read through the article. It shares the findings from the Consumer Reports study from 2010, that many protein supplements have very high levels of heavy metals. This article also agrees with the Consumer Reports study and Dr Greger’s comments that protein supplements are not necessary to take in more than enough protein for health. The article also points out that while the whey supplements had less heavy metals than the plant based supplements, they both had heavy metals. Whey protein contributes to several illnesses, including obesity. Here’s a video from Dr G on that topic: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/formula-for-childhood-obesity/

      In summary: on protein powders, just say no. Get your protein from whole food.

  12. CR is a reputable organization. I personally trust their research. Keep in mind that all available evidence shows that your protein intake should be about 5% of calories from protein, which is the average protein content of fresh fruits and vegetables. Any protein supplement is processed and will have important nutrients removed and will not be a whole food. The best strategy is to eat an unprocessed whole food plant based diet. You’ll get all the protein you need. Excess protein increases your risk for disease and premature death.

    Dr. Ben

  13. A while back I saw that someone had commented requesting further information on heavy metal detoxification in regards to those used in Stratospheric Aerosol Injection (e.g. barium, aluminum).

    I came back to see if the conversation had gone anywhere yet, there are no comments on that topic visible anymore. Have they been removed?

    For those of us living in regions under which there is continual Solar Radiation Management occurring, using what appears to be the Welsbach seeding method (https://patents.google.com/patent/US5003186A/en), this would be a very timely topic for Dr. Greger to help provide information on.

    Or alternatively, for those of us who are health-minded, to at least allow us to carry out a conversation on diet and supplement advice without it being removed.

  14. True. What we put in our body can affect us, but many times even if we are super vigilant it is not simply enough.
    I am a huge fan of the 80/20 rule. Focus on the 20% that will get you 80% of the results.
    For that I eat fresh foods, not packaged.
    I supplement with whole foods with Gold seal standards.
    Then I take things that will help clean up the rest.
    Things like Bentonite Clay.
    https://amzn.to/2LQsCsb
    I want to live and enjoy my life, but spending an exorbitant amount of time on some things is not really good either.
    It causes stress which will then harm us more than the little bit of something, like a heavy metal, we reduced.
    Enjoy.
    https://amzn . to/2LQsCsb

  15. PLEASE PLEASE nutrionfacts folks, I cannot find enough info about cadmium in flax seeds on this site. YET so many sources like even governement dietary suggestions state that we should restrict our use of flax seeds because of the risks of cadmium retention in the body. Now I am a little scared, I have been eating ground flax seeds while pregnant for the omega 3’s, have I accidentally poisoned my child? There seems to be at least one study from 2010 that show flaxseeds to increase cadmium retention in rats, recommendations are perhaps based on this one? In my country pregnant women are urged to not eat any flax seeds at all because of heavy metal exposure risk. Any info on this subject is highly appreciated.

  16. Hello Lara- This study: http://www.austinpublishinggroup.com/nutrition-food-sciences/fulltext/ajnfs-v2-id1045.php reviewed this topic and found very low levels of cadmium in flaxseed, and these levels drop further with cooking. This article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2621042/ suggests flaxseed as a good source of ALA. I found the mice study you referenced. I cannot find case studies of cadmium toxicity from flaxseed in pregnant women or their babies, which should be reassuring. Occupational exposure to cadmium appears to be the biggest risk. There are not randomized studies of this kind of thing in pregnant women, unfortunately.

    Best luck to you! Dr Anderson, Health Support Volunteer

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