Doctor's Note

Is it our physical activity or eating activity? See Diet vs. Exercise for Weight Loss and How Much Exercise to Sustain Weight Loss?

I touched on the pink buckets of KFC in my video Breast Cancer Survival, Butterfat, and Chicken.

For more on the idea of subsidizing healthy foods or at least stopping tax money to supporting junk, check out my video Taxpayer Subsidies for Unhealthy Foods.

It’s sad when nonprofits collaborate with companies that contribute to suffering, but it seems particularly egregious when the Registered Dietician group does it. See Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics Conflicts of Interest.

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  • veganchrisuk

    I watched the documentary F U (Fed Up) yesterday evening – which was a 90 min documentary on this exact subject, written by Stephanie Soechtig and Mark Monroe.

    It is so unfortunate that we value money greater than our own health. I used to spend more on keeping my car on the road each year than taking care of my body – fortunately by educating myself, that has changed. Why become a politician if you are scared of saying the wrong thing and alienating some voters, or a Dr who sides with industry because he has been paid – one Dr received over $2mil in the F U documentary – funny watching him squirm when he couldn’t answer a simple question – how do these people sleep at night was a point raised in the documentary by a politician – I think the answer is very comfortaby……..

    • Jim Felder

      Fed Up! is the equivalent of one hand clapping. Sure the incredible amounts of simple sugars and highly processed grains are half the story of why we as a nation are getting sicker and sicker, but it is only half. By ignoring the other half, the equally incredible amounts of animal products, the film goes after the safe villains, while not tackling the much touchier subject of this society’s obsession with animal foods. And in fact it is likely that “sugar” is not half the problem, it is more likely a quarter to a third of the problem. If this country overnight stopped eating refined sugars and starches but continued to gorge on meat, cheese and eggs, would we even be able to see a significant shift in health trajectories? Or is it more likely that people will still progress towards the same chronic diseases are perhaps an only slightly reduced velocity.

      Still it wasn’t a bad first step in a larger conversation. The only problem will be if people think they have identified the entirety of the obesity problem and ignore the larger issue of the health impacts of eating animal products.

      • peter mainwald

        if you watch carefully, there is one child, that oh so briefly gets it right in one sentence… I think he was blond bit not sure on the other specifics
        Thank for the one hand clapping analogy, I hope you dont mind if I use that because I have been going crazy trying to explain why this movie doesn’t work..

    • The problem I have with the Fed Up movie is its castigation of sugar and absolution of fat, specifically saturated fat. In a context of a mostly whole foods diet without caloric excess, even large amounts of sugar are benign.

      Saying sugar is inherently toxic just because it does damage in large amts is akin to saying water is inherently toxic…in large amts.

      And sugar by itself is not addictive as claimed. When was the last time you uncontrollably downed a 5-pound bag of cane sugar?? And Central and South American populations which follow traditional diets yet eat large amts of the stuff do not have high rates of obesity or heart disease.

      However, flavor the sugar, mix it up with salt and fat and starch divorced from its natural state, and the whole kit and kaboodle becomes nearly irresistible.

      Voilà! Obesity!

  • Wendy Na

    In the words of Dr. Doug Graham, (the 80-10-10) high fruit and veggie vegan diet, he is claiming that B12 levels, when deficient, come back to normal after fasting. Is there truth in this? I assume, for now, that if this is true, the mechanism that allows this is similar to that in which the liver releases glycogen when body needs fuel. Well, I wonder if the liver releases stored B12 but only during a fasting state, and maybe by “fasting” I mean fasting for a few days or week(S).
    “What I’ve experienced is people with B12 deficiency are put on a fast. They consume no food of any kind other than pure water, who three to four weeks later test perfectly normal for B12 levels. What this showed is that it was an absorption problem not an exposure problem. B12 is everywhere. It’s in the air. It’s in the mucus membranes of your nose. Every time you inhale, you’re breathing in B12, every time you swallow your own saliva, you’re swallowing B12. It’s not an exposure issue.” – Dr. Doug Graham – vegan, 80-10-10 diet.

    • surreal_pistach
      • fruitbat

        Jack “Credible” Norris is just the opposite extreme from Doug Graham.

    • b00mer

      I have heard on the interwebs of some pretty suspect practices of Dr. Graham, e.g. people dying or almost dying at his fasts, being arrested for money laundering, though no idea if ever convicted or not. He comes off as pretty skeezy to me.

      On a purely intellectual level, the fact that he is against cooked vegan foods such as whole grains and beans, and even cooked vegetables, which is unambiguously in disagreement with the consensus of modern nutritional science, renders him an unreliable source for evidence based nutritional advice.

      • Ben

        I absolutely agree, B00mer! And this is coming from a person who followed Graham’s 811 diet for two years. I followed it to a TEE. I did it perfectly. I thought something magical was going to happen if I just followed the “perfect” diet long enough. Not magical ever happened. And my health only improved when I transitioned to my current McDougall/Fuhrman/Gregor type diet. It was more then 10 years ago when I did the 811rv. So glad I have moved beyond dietary idealism.

      • fruitbat

        Well in his book he said that he would always recommend low-fat high-carb cooked food over high-fat raw.

        The rumours are true – he charges extortionate amounts to do water fasts with him in Costa Rica – $11,000 just to drink water! – and then doesn’t take care of his “patients” properly. An Australian girl had a narrow escape when he wanted her to blindly keep going with a water fast, when if he’d commissioned blood tests it would have shown how close to death she was. She ended up in hospital having a blood transfusion. The very fact he recommends fasting is suspect.

        Also he is not actually actually qualified in nutrition – he is only a chiropractor, which is like a spine physiotherapist. His only professional experience relates to the fact that as a chiropractor he often worked with athletes. He took the 80/10/10 idea from T. Colin Campbell (author of the China Study) and trademarked it for himself.

        Having said that, most of the *content* of the 80/10/10 book, regardless of the author, is good. I am not 100% raw (but support people who choose to be) but it certainly hammered home the natural importance of plenty of fresh fruit and leafy vegetables, and even more so the importance having a low-moderate fat intake. The things I disagree with in the book are that he recommends a ridiculously low body fat, that everyone should be burning 40% of their calories a day through exercise, the calorie recommendations in his sample menu’s are too low (people doing this diet have found they need at least 2500 for females), and he thinks that B12 levels in the body are potentially affected by eating frozen foods! That’s 4 things that are incorrect. Otherwise, aside from annoying typo’s, the book is pretty good. I do wish he’d recommend sprouted pulses an sea vegetables though. They are highly nutritious and add variety to the diet.

        • b00mer

          I too consider the 80/10/10 macronutrient levels a fine premise in isolation from some of his other more whimsical dietary edicts. If his work gets people to eat more fruits and vegetables that’s great too, but he’s pretty far off the deep end on some of his ideas. I saw a video clip of him (not sure if it was more recent than the book you mention?) and when asked about cooked low fat foods, his response was that if fruit isn’t available, one should skip a meal. It’s baseless extremism. Like you, my philosophy is whatever floats your boat and to each his own, but it bugs me when I see raw veganism being preached as *the* solution to health problems and as superior to a cooked plant based diet. Plenty of people are satisfied and happy with eating burritos, stir fry, bean burgers, etc, but significantly fewer will be at all enticed with the idea of only raw fruits and vegetables, and may think the side effects of the SAD are worth it if the alternative is fruit and lettuce.

    • fruitbat

      Following the 80/10/10 diet is fine if that’s what one wants to do, provided one eats enough calories, which seems to be the biggest obstacle when replacing starches with fruits. Also you need to watch iodine and selenium levels which are dependent on soil levels. B12 would naturally have been available in fresh water, so abundant that the amount accidentally swallowed while bathing in a lake or river provides enough B12 for a week. Nowadays most lakes and rivers are polluted, and tap water is chlorinated, which is a B12 antagonist, so not only does is not contain B12 it actually causes deficiencies (in an indirect way which I won’t explain here for brevity). Modern people, whatever their diet ought to take B12 supplements.

  • Darryl

    An aside:

    A more disturbing result from the hot field of epigenetics (heritable “programming” of gene expression) is that high fat Western diets can program future metabolism in the womb, and even across generations (1, 2, 3, 4). This may partially account for observed progressive increases in obesity (and the panoply of obesity related diseases), despite diets that arguably have remained merely “equally bad” for decades. It took the better part of a century of bad diets to arrive at our current levels of obesity. I hope it doesn’t take a similar duration for our epigenetics and metabolic health to recover.

    • Thea

      Wow. That really is disturbing. But it makes a lot of sense too. Thanks for this post. It gave me a lot of food for thought.

    • guest

      Those links are a lot to process, and I’m still going over them. but this epigenetics is really scary. I hope it is able to be turned off or reversed with proper diet. I sincerely hope so.

    • I understand that there are time periods when are genes are the most sensitive to epigenetic changes –in the womb, early childhood, adolescence, childbearing years. Is that correct? Could you elaborate?

      • Darryl

        That’s a great question, and while my impression is that fetal growth, infancy and puberty are crucial windows for epigenetic “programming”, I’m not sure if the experts in the field have quantified this. I’m going to spend this weekend reviewing the papers in my epigenetics folder to see if there’s much evidence for particularly sensitive developmental windows. Stay tuned.

  • Daniel Wagle

    I would say inactivity does contribute a lot to our problems. Especially this is manifest in Americans driving their cars everywhere, instead of walking or bicycling everywhere. I personally ride my bike to work everyday. The car culture also contributes to the fast food habit, as seen in drive thrus. I also make a great effort to avoid all animal products as much as possible, as well as really cut down on sweets and trans fats. I make an effort to eat a lot of the foods mentioned on this website, such as greens, garlic, nuts etc. Activity can help, but we must remember Jim Fixx, who was a runner and died of a heart attack, presumably because he didn’t improve his diet as well. Maybe we should say that while activity is important, it doesn’t completely make up for a bad diet. Exercise, used correctly, is a tool to consume a better diet, because it enables a person to eat more healthy calories without gaining weight. It can “out train” an occasional over indulgence, but it shouldn’t be used to “out train” a generally bad diet. Maybe we should think of it as exercise can help with weight control and health, but it won’t make up for really bad habits, such as smoking or eating junk food or animal products constantly. Personally, daily exercise as well as not eating meat any day of the year are absolute givens. Emphasize activity, without letting the food industry off the hook by this emphasis.

    • b00mer
    • Guest

      KAISER PERMANENTE is moving in that direction, even if somewhat quietly. See Dr. Greger’s video: I have been told that we will see more and more proof of this shift as the year progresses. KP is surely afraid of losing its many client groups who make a living from the Meat and Dairy and Restaurant industries. But they do know how much they will save per month simply by getting their diabetics on WFPB. The article in Permanente Journal makes thrilling reading. If you are a KP client, consider asking your doc to read the article.

      Nutritional Update for Physicians: Plant-Based Diets

      Phillip J Tuso, MD; Mohamed H Ismail, MD; Benjamin P Ha, MD; Carole Bartolotto, MA, RD

      Perm J 2013 Spring; 17(2):61-66

      Dr. Phillip Tuso are heroes. They have had to fight for this much and would like to do more.

  • Name

    It seems possible from the remarkable videos here on your site that massive economic savings can accrue from eating very well. Do you have any reason to doubt that if a major nutrition association were to own, create or manage a health insurance company, the likely cost savings would be so massive that the insurance company would over time have better health outcomes and lower costs and then destroy its competitors? The insurance company could buy the company called Whole Foods and give all of its health insurance customers a “savings card” to promote smart eating. It could even require patients to see a nutritionist and obtain a referral before seeing a specialist for big ticket items like heart surgery. (Why, couldn’t it even offer “free radhiccio” and reap savings later.) Do insurance companies have enough economic leverage to enable “nutrition” to “win” in society, and can they become major players in influencing societal outcomes for the better? Are they moving in the direction of using nutrition to lower costs and get better outcomes?

    • Stewart

      Most information on medical costs suggest that the continuing rise is due to the influx of baby boomers being such a large category and and now moving into the high cost stage of their lives. However the fact is that in the last 20 years we have gotten significantly fatter to the point where we can reasonably say that we have a pandemic of obesity. I say pandemic because it comes from infectious cultural phenomena and it is growing world wide. Indeed, I think it is reasonable to say that this is more serious and more pressing than ebola. Ebola will kill faster but our diet is more certain to kill, or, prevent death.

      Insurance companies should indeed be in the lead just as the medical profession should. It is the cultural orientation away from effective utilization of the knowledge that we now have that is preventing this. I would suggest that not one in 10 doctors have any knowledge of the benefits and importance of good nutrition. The result of the cultural orientation is monumental and will be very hard to change. Sure doesn’t mean we should’t try though.

    • b00mer

      Very interesting thoughts! Insurance companies have already been getting involved in promoting health to a certain degree, through reducing premiums for people willing to use exercise trackers or achieve certain cholesterol/bp/etc levels. Keeping in mind that most of the professional health and nutrition community has not caught on to wfpb eating, it’s not surprising that insurance companies haven’t either. But I do think it’s entirely possible that once they catch wind of it, it could be something they pursue. How interesting that the insurance industry, usually thought of with such disdain, is actually the one sector as opposed to the healthcare, pharma, and food industries, that would truly be [financially] motivated to improve its patrons’ health.

    • KAISER PERMANENTE is moving in that direction, even if somewhat quietly. See Dr. Greger’s video:…. I have been told that we will see more and more proof of this shift as the year progresses. KP is surely afraid of losing its many client groups who make a living from the Meat and Dairy and Restaurant industries. But they do know how much they will save per month simply by getting their diabetics on WFPB. The article in Permanente Journal makes thrilling reading. If you are a KP client, consider asking your doc to read the article.

      Nutritional Update for Physicians: Plant-Based Diets

      Phillip J Tuso, MD; Mohamed H Ismail, MD; Benjamin P Ha, MD; Carole Bartolotto, MA, RD

      Perm J 2013 Spring; 17(2):61-66

      Dr. Phillip Tuso are heroes. They have had to fight for this much and would like to do more.

    • Penny

      I think the idea here is fantastic, and I don’t think it is one that is lost on insurance companies either. They know that healthier customers means more money for them. That is why they are on doctors to send diabetics or overweight individuals to nutritionists and make other recommendations such as “quit smoking”!

      The problem is that side of the equation does not exist in a bubble. The meat and dairy industries have done a fabulous job of making the argument about “control” rather than addressing the merits of the health argument. When you get people riled up about the possibility of being controlled, they do stupid things like serve their kids McDonald’s cheeseburgers through the fence at school because the school system is trying to serve healthier lunches. They will decide whether or not their children have the beginning of heart disease before middle school, damn it, not “the man”.

      Because so many people do eat meat, and plenty of them believe they need it with every meal, it will be hard for insurance companies to attempt to incentivise the truly healthy WFPB diet. The act will be quickly pointed out by the meat and dairy industry as an attempt to control the masses and all cheeseburgery hell will break loose.

      Perhaps very slowly over time…

  • KWD

    The make-it-delicious, cheap, fast and convenient mantras of the food and restaurant industries that enable them to be profitable are undoubtedly a nidus for the reliable, steady stream of sick people seeking help in the healthcare system, increasing the financial burden of everyone paying into that system; so yes, “strengthening their public health conscience” is something the industry should feel obligated to do.

    I’m three weeks into a basic food prep, kitchen essentials course that is a minor pre-req for my program. I figured taking it with my 2nd semester Organic Chem would be a good move because I’ve been cooking for years and it should be easy but it’s shaping up to be a test of endurance…not because of level of difficulty, but because of the focus on animal-derived products in the dishes we’ll prepare. The course is geared to those entering the restaurant industry so I’m the oddball. The Chef has made quite clear that, in his mind, the success of your restaurant will solely depend on the ability to prepare the animal products and techniques he uses to entice customers to come back again and again. A “get-them-hooked” mentality. The only grain we’ll prepare is white arborio rice…no legumes, no nuts, a few vegetables as side dishes, and of those, the preparations set forth are covered in butter or egg prepared sauces.

    It’s disheartening that these students will not learn anything about WFPB as they start on their restaurant careers. I hope that some restaurant training programs are more forward-thinking than this one. I don’t want to be “hooked”, I want to be nourished.
    Really wish I could drop this course and find a different way to meet the requirement but my financial situation cannot handle it so I’m going to stick it out with a personal goal of helping the Chef learn some new techniques.

    • Coacervate

      Great to hear from someone in the trenches! I have to tell you… our local pub is known for its great foods…Dutch and German oriented with great sausage and kraut combos…fish and chips…lots of organoleptics and mouthfeels…heh. But we heard they had a lentil loaf! So Me and the Misus walks in an everybody knows we’re plant nuts and are watching real careful to see what we order. Lentil loaf, side of veg of the day, no butter no oil no no….ok a side of saurekraut…and a pint…its a Friday. So it comes out, we are eating away and Ann says to me, “Hey that loaf is really good, not at all oily”…And suddenly theres this big cheer from the kitchen…when we looked their heads were stacked up the servering window all watching us! Moral, most folks really care about what they eat and most really care about about what they cook. Nice going Ashhurst Inn! can I say that here? NAME NAMES! If your looking to eat some decent vegan try them out next time you’re 40 degrees South and 175 east!

      • KWD

        I really enjoy your posts, Coacervate. Indeed, there are many restaurants stepping up to the plate to offer healthy dishes and finding an audience craving this. I’m lucky that I live in a major city where access to healthy food is easy and our local pubs go to great lengths to accommodate us. Lentil loaf sounds delicious to me, I made a lentil loaf last weekend and it was fantastic!

    • Thea

      KWD: That was such a fascinating post. It raises a really great point: We talk so much about doctors, RD, etc. But we haven’t talked that much about chef training on this site.

      I’m sorry you aren’t getting as much of an education as you deserve, but I think it is awesome that you are turning this into an opportunity to help others. Best of luck to you!!!

      After thought: You may be interested in the book/story Better Than Vegan, by Del Sroufe. He is a chef who lost 200 pounds eating a whole plant food based diet. He has a very interesting story at the front of the book. And a lot of experience and goal of making food taste great. I just got the book myself and haven’t had a chance to make any of the recipes. But they look great. I’m going to start soon.

      • KWD

        Thanks, Thea. I’m very interested the book and story so thanks for sharing as I have not heard of him.

      • KWD

        Thea, so I purchased Better than Vegan and am really thankful you made this recommendation. It turns out that next week we are preparing a broccoli with hollandaise sauce and I asked the Chef if I could make Del’s recipe using (cauliflower puree or tofu) and to my pleasant surprise, Chef agreed to allow me to do this (provided I bring the extra ingredients needed) and encouraged me to do this going forward if I’d like to modify other recipes in class. So, even though Chef is teaching traditional French cooking techniques, I must give him credit for welcoming me to make changes.

        • Thea

          Wow! That’s so awesome!! Thanks so much for letting me know.

          After all that, I sure do hope it turns out well and people like it. :-0

          And I totally agree – big kudos for the Chef.

    • fruitbat

      A chef who is dependent on animal products is not a good chef. First of all, an educated chef should be able to cater for all diets. They should be trained in catering for people with allergies, and they should be trained in catering for vegetarians and vegans, religious diets and various other groups. The modern western diet is not the be all and end all of food, but these chefs are being trained to think that the very modern excess of meat meat meat at every single mouthful is the only way of eating that exists. This is meat-centric and discriminatory to people who aren’t in line with what they force as the norm.

      Secondly, relying on animal products is sign of poor skill. Cooked animal products contain addictive opioid compounds. Any animal that has been brought up eating cooked meat will refuse to eat anything else, whether that animal is a natural carnivore that would eat raw meat, or a natural herbivore like a sheep or cow. This is also why it is hard to give up meat, and even more hard to give up dairy products, especially casein-based cheeses, which are the highest in opioids and are 10% as addictive as morphine. Therefore, relying on these addictive compounds to make your food “good” is lazy. The body simply associates the sensations that arise from consuming these foods – chewiness, the certain flavours etc – with impending opioid kicks, and therefore perceives it as “nice”. Society then validates these feelings by saying we need these things!

      Thirdly, relying on inordinate amounts of fat to carry flavour is lazy. I bet he also abuses the combination of a sugar+fat or carbohydrate+fat being addictive in his cooking.

      We vegans know how to make a nice meal by understanding what makes a meal “nice”. We understand the concept of umami, we understand the concepts of layering flavours, we understand that there needs to be carbs, some amount of fat to carry flavour and for satisfaction, and protein for fullness etc. We understand that there needs to be vegetables for colour (nature makes humans attracted to colour to attract us to nutritious foods) – and we treat them with far more respect and creativity than the average chef, who are so fixated on flavouring their slabs of meat in different ways that they neglect their sad little “side” vegetables, boiling the shiitake out of them then drenching them all in butter and salt.

      By having a good understanding of what is “nice” and how taste works, we make wholesome, plant-based foods that are equal to or greater than SAD food in terms of satisfaction, and always more innovative, all the while being better for our health, causing no suffering, minimising environmental destruction, using 60 times less land than animal-based diets, and doing our bit for global food security by not taking more than our fair share from the world.

      • KWD

        On a bright note, my Chef instructor has agreed to allow me to modify recipes to be entirely plant based! There is hope!

  • Coacervate

    What worked in the tobacco fight? First, Education…we need to educate the MEDIA. The vision should include a cadre of investigative journalists willing to take risks to blow whistles…Like a certain Dr whose name rhymes with Woodward and Bernsteingreger. But this takes more…requires a respected, previously known and objective newsperson…like …ummm …ummmm gimme a minute.

    Second we need to educate the EDUCATORS, fight hard and nasty by naming names and pointing fingers, ambush interviews. “Why does your school feed poison to our kids?” If teachers don’t understand nutrition then neither will their students.

    Third, Government will jump in after the first two. pass some laws. Jack up some taxes … help with your first 2 action points.

    But we need strong dedicated leadership and unity. Watching McDougal, Esslestyn et al. fight it out over how many nuts, how much starch vs. kale … I can say we aren’t any where near as organized as we need to be.

    We need to look at what has worked and what has not worked for tobacco. AND recognize that R.J. Reynolds is doing pretty darn good with all sorts of new products that dodge the FDA regs….in the interests of harm reduction!

    We need to understand that just as there are still many many people out there willing to do anything, pay anything, suffer anything for that nicotine hit…similarly we can never legislate away some peoples devotion to the pleasure trap.

    Finally, I worry for you Dr. G. You know, I presume, how Soylent Green ended.

  • Durian muncher

    well, obviously they didn’t know about raw cigarettes back then ;-)

  • slider1

    Dr. Greger, in this instance you are giving the wrong impression. A
    sweet potato is still cheaper than a burger or even one piece of
    chicken. A bag of apples and a head of cabbage is cheap too. Dry beans
    and lentils are cheap. Any veggies that are “expensive can be grown or
    purchased in bulk and canned (or cheap alternatives are available).
    Sprouts are a most excellent nutritional bang for the buck.

    greater problem isn’t a lack of cheap plant food, but ignorance. The
    multinational food processors market misinformation about nutrition
    numerous times every day. One would think we’re in danger of starving to
    death if Rachael Ray, Dr. Oz, and a plethora of other food and “health”
    shows didn’t advise us daily of yet another recipe for bacon with
    burgers or which green concoction to drink with our “protein”. Meat has
    such a bad connotation these days the marketers now call it “protein”
    and suggest we need more protein for good health. You guys in white hats
    don’t have a media presence compared to the meat and diary industries
    media domination. Y’all are content to hover in obscurity preaching to
    the choir. Your message is always excellent (well almost always) but
    where are the masses of converts?. They don’t know where you, and Dr.
    McDougall, and the short list of credible nutritional gurus are hiding

    • b00mer

      Dr. Barnard gets around on the airwaves. I’ve seen him on his own PBS special, a TED talk, and clips from Ellen and The Doctors. Dr. Greger doesn’t have that much presence on mainstream tv, but he does A LOT of speaking around the country. Take a look at his speaking schedule. It is crazy. The Esselstyns have put out several documentaries obviously. They’ve all written books that sell fairly well. The amount of free content on this website which gets shared around quite a bit on social media is also nothing to sneeze at. I agree it would be great to see them all on the evening news, dateline, 20/20, oprah (is she still on?), etc. But that’s not entirely under their control. I think they’re doing as much as they can to get the word out, and I think over time, as the audience grows, the mainstream media makers will take note and respond in turn by providing more opportunity for coverage. Otherwise agree with everything you’ve said about cost, lack of information and misinformation, and exercise!

      • slider1

        bOOmer, Don’t get me wrong, I’d hate to be in a world without all these fine devoted nutritionists with their ability to shine a light of truth on the poisons passes off as food. However, they can all run around from one speaking engagement to the next, like chickens with their heads cut off (as granny used to say) and all that effort, from now until each departs this earth won’t even approach the exposure meat and dairy gets on one television show, on one single episode, promoting, bacon, cheese, and oil. Unless a nationally distributed unified concerted effort is regularly seen and “harder” words are used, the message won’t be heard. There’s not enough “aggressive” posturing on behalf of a starch based diet. They all talk so softly and politely, like professional respectful doctors while their opposition, the meat and dairy industries play by a different set of rules, cut-throat and deep pockets, buying polititians. In a sense, the good doctors are too passive for the fight. Women across America are killing their husbands with kindness, feeding them whatever the Koch brothers are selling. Why not say that? Why not say, “We don’t have a health insurance problem, we have an ignorance problem…don’t eat meat and dairy and heart disease goes away.” “Who needs insurance?” Hmmm, that would be the folks who eat meat and dairy.

  • dmac60

    Although i agree with all on you video with the exception, that grass fed organic meat is a healthy part of a humans diet, and should not be discarded as bad for your health but on the contrary it is an essential part of maintaining good health. Doctor Gregor seems pro vegetarian.

    which is fine but he should not dismiss quality farmed raised beef.

    • slider1

      dmac, you’d be hard pressed to present a legitimate study advocating “grass fed organic meat is a healthy part of a humans diet”. You’re in the right place, however, to deprogram all the misinformation about nutrition you’ve accumulated watching years and years of pro meat and dairy television. Regardless of the animal’s diet, and whether it’s muscles flap a wing, wiggles a fin, or lifts a hoof, all muscles are meat and all meat is too high in protein for human consumption. Likewise for dairy products. Even meat free of chemicals and pesticides and whatever else you believe to render meat less than “quality”, well, remove all you deem to be the damaging culprit in meat, and you still have excess protein that will overload your kidneys, trigger cancer growth, and clog up arteries. You need maybe 5% protein by caloric count for optimal intake. At 20% protein cancer cells can be triggered to start dividing. What’s quality about that?

      For the record, vegetarians tend to eat meat and dairy fairy regularly so don’t fair any better than meat eaters health-wise. Calling Dr Greger a vegetarian exemplifies you need to read and view much more on this site. You’ll either educate yourself or find this group to be odd…very odd.

      • dmac60

        Educate yourself,it’s out there all you have to do is look,you don’t have to stay with the old norms,modern science has proved Ansel Keys a farce.

        • slider1

          dmac, you are being fooled by what you choose to accept as “modern science”. Partly because you want to believe you can eat meat if it’s fed grass and partly because you don’t want to admit you’ve been wrong all these decades. Funny, the most reliable modern science IS Ansel Keys. After all these years he’s still right. You’re on the outside looking in. I bet Rachael Ray is your favorite scientist. What should the pig be raised on before it’s healthy enough to go on your cheeseburger? I’m guessing organic slop.

          • dmac60

            Eat as much as you like as the body compensates for the amount of cholesterol consumed in food,and cholesterol does not cause heart disease anymore than firefighters cause fires,what causes heart disease is inflammation caused by Processed carbohydrates ,processed oils and sugars in other words processed foods,they have now proved that the higher your cholesterol the longer you live and the more intelligent you are.

          • Tom Goff

            This is more assertion with no evidence to support it, It’s also wrong.

        • Tom Goff

          “Educate yourself” – that is good advice. But it doesn’t mean believing the types of books and websites that propagate lies about Ancel Keys. It’s also food for thought to consider that, if these people are happy to spread lies about Ancel Keys, what else are they making false statements about?

          • dmac60

            Study after study has proved Ansel Key’s a fraud.And the study’s your looking at were complicit in the fraud,does McGovern ring a bell ?

          • Tom Goff

            You are just repeating tired old lies you have found on the internet or in some get-rich-quick diet book. After all the guy’s dead, why not lie about him – he’s not going to sue is he? For crying out loud, you can’t even get the man’s name correct, let alone anything else.

            Anyone who takes the trouble to do any fact checking will find that Ancel Keys’ legacy to modern nutritional science is huge. It’s telling that the clowns who make these claims can never provide chapter and verse to substantiate their claims – and on the rare occasion that they try, it just exposes the lies for what they are.

            Sure, the expert panels of world class scientists convened by the World Health Organization, the World Cancer Research Fund, the UN Food and Agriculture Organization and the US Government are all “complicit in the fraud” … LOL.

            But yes, McGovern does ring a bell – he’s another dead man that the charlatans and crackpots promoting high fat diets like to lie about.

          • dmac60

            Your as dumb as you look.

          • Thea

            dmac60: Insults are not allowed on this website. I encourage you to take a look at the FAQ page linked to at the bottom of NutritionFacts and which includes information on the posting rules. Your comment has been flagged.

          • dmac60

            stuff it.

          • Tom Goff

            I think that you mean “You’re as dumb”.

          • dmac60

            You are as dumb as you look.

    • fruitbat

      “Seems pro vegetarian”. GASP! This is a vegetarian site. Don’t come on here forcing your unwanted opinions down peoples’ throats, and telling vegetarians what they should and shouldn’t put on their own websites.

      It also shows how prejudiced you are saying “seems pro-vegetarian” like its a big deal. You don’t go around commenting on non-vegetarian doctors sites saying how they “seem pro-necrotarian”.

      There is no evidence that meat is different depending on how it was fed. There is nothing essential in meat that is not found in plant foods. There are many things in meat that are dangerous and carcinogenic that are not found in plant foods. Vegetarians are consistently found to have better health, suffer less deficiencies, and live longer than necrotarians.

      And if meat was an “essential” part of a human diet, we’d be able to eat it raw without using tools to kill it, like real carnivores. We’d relish eating the feathers, scales or fur, eating the ingesta and guts, and we’d swallow it whole because only herbivores can move their jaws sideways to chew. We’d be able to eat it without our cholesterol raising – it is impossible to raise a carnivore or omnivore’s own blood cholesterol through ingesting it. All animals have low cholesterol apart from non-vegetarian humans, because non-vegetarian humans are the only animal going against evolution. In studies, in all the species that scientists have managed to raise cholesterol in (through non-dietary means for the non-herbivores) their health and life span has deteriorated.

      You are entitled to your opinions (but not to spew them in inappropriate environments – such is demanding that vegetarians accept your opinion on their own website that grass-fed meat is “essential”) but not to your facts. Your entire post should have been qualified with “I reckon” just to make it clear that you are repeating evidence-free supermarket science. Regurgitating “happy meat” supermarket advertising material is not proof. In some East Asian countries they market the meat of deliberately tortured animals as superior.

      You should visit the healthylongevity blog, which is fully referenced and dispels the the grass-fed BS sheeple have been parroting recently. Intensively-farmed meat has only existed since the 40’s, but populations that consume a lot of meat have always been unhealthy, riddled with heart disease and suffered short life-spans.

  • Kay, RN

    Those of us who work in hospitals can see that most of our patients get where they are as a result of the American lifestyle. I currently work in rehab as a wound/ostomy specialist. Most of my colostomy patients had surgery for diverticulitis or bowel obstruction–conditions preventable by a WFPB diet. One patient’s wife asked why her husband had so much trouble with constipation. He was sitting in front of me eating food from the hospital kitchen–grilled cheese on white bread and French fries. I would love to tell them, “Don’t eat the hospital food.” I sure don’t.
    A large percentage of my patients are overweight and/or type II diabetics. Many are in rehab after a stroke or heart surgery. Nearly all of them have a list of meds over a page long. Staff nurses spend a disproportionate amount of their time passing meds and somehow it’s never questioned why this is OK. I would love to be able to show them a better way but lifestyle is a touchy subject with people. Many of my co-workers are overweight or obese. They know I eat a WFPB diet and they tell me I can be crazy if I want but they will eat what they want. They don’t believe me when I tell them I was fat my whole life and am thin now due to my lifestyle. At any rate, I think one intervention to improve our patients’ recovery would be to feed them some real food and maybe this would influence the employees too.

    • Lawrence

      Hello Nurse Kay,
      Wow! What a horror show. I don’t know how you manage to keep your mouth shut; professionalism, protocols, etc. is my guess. Your story is poignant for me on several levels, not the least of which is that I am a Crohn’s ‘survivor’ (in remission for many, many years and never been cut), and planning to stay that way with a WFPB diet. It is amazing to me that even when looking down the barrel of long-term recovery, disfigurement, ostomy bags and all the rest, people simply refuse to change their lifestyles drastically and permanently to save themselves and their loved ones from the ravages not only of the American lifestyle, but also from the gaping maw of the American di$ease management $ystem.
      Allow me to use this as a vehicle to remind readers of a recent documentary called ‘Escape Fire.’ Here’s some links. The first is a C-SPAN interview with Matthew Heineman, the film’s producer and the second is a link to Amazon where the film may be viewed. Take comfort that you are not as alone as it may seem sometimes. I think you are a hero!

      • Kay, RN

        Thanks for sharing your story, Lawrence. I think you would be an inspiration to people around you. It seems that the only thing we can do in the face of the American food system and the medical system is just stand as a silent witness that there is a better way. I would love to help people who are suffering from chronic conditions but unless they are actually seeking an alternate path they usually aren’t interested in hearing about it. Hang in there!

  • Levon

    I would like to pose a question that my brother, an obstinate carnivore, brought up about this article i sent to him.

    He says :”Supplying misinformation, use of supposedly conflicting evidence and hiding negative data is illegal. So why not sue them? If your case has merit and as you say the defendants have money then I am sure you will find somebody (e.g. hedge funds) to finance the law suit. If you publish research in a good journal then the research is peer reviewed. There are referees and editors and associate editors. Moreover, if you submit to for instance the journal of finance, then you have to disclose any potential biases. I am not sure about the good medical changes but I am sure they have something similar.”

    So why not suing them???

    Maybe Dr.Greger or someone from his team can answer this question.

    • Thea

      Levon: I don’t have an answer to your specific question, but I thought you would be interested to know that the group PCRM (Physician’s Committee for Responsible Medicine) did try to sue a Federal agency at one point. I think it was over the government nutrition recommendations not being supported by the science. I don’t know where that suit went, but I think this is the answer to your question: These cases are extremely expensive to try, take years to go through the process, and even with the angels on your side, you may still not win. To assume that, “If your case has merit… then I am sure you will find somebody … to finance the law suit.” is naive in my opinion.

      Oh wait, I found articles about the suit, but I still don’t know what happened: