Optimizing Water Intake to Lose Weight

Optimizing Water Intake to Lose Weight
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Two cups of cold water on an empty stomach a few times a day for weight loss.

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

Drink two cups of water and you can get a surge of the adrenal hormone noradrenaline in your bloodstream, as if you just smoked a few cigarettes or downed a few cups of coffee, which boosts your metabolic rate up to 30 percent within an hour––which, when put to the test in randomized controlled trials, appeared to accelerate weight loss by 44 percent, certainly making it the safest, simplest, and cheapest way to boost your metabolism.

Now, if you’re on a beta blocker drug, this entire strategy may fail. (Beta blockers are typically prescribed for heart conditions or high blood pressure, and tend to end with the letters “lol,” such as atenolol, nadolol, or propranolol, sold as Tenormin, Corgard, or Inderal, respectively.)  So, for example, if you give people the beta blocker drug metoprolol (sold as Lopressor) before they chug their two cups of water, the metabolic boost is effectively prevented. This makes sense, since the “beta” that’s being blocked in beta blockers are the beta receptors triggered by noradrenaline. Otherwise, though, the water should work. But what’s the best dose, type, temperature, and timing?

Just a single cup may be sufficient to rev up the noradrenaline nerves, but additional benefit is seen at two or more cups. Caution: one should never drink more than three cups in an hour, though, since that starts to exceed the amount of fluid your kidneys can handle. If you have heart or kidney failure, your physician may not want you drinking extra water at all, but even with healthy kidneys, any more than three cups of water an hour can start to critically dilute the electrolytes in your brain with potentially critical consequences. (In How Not to Diet, I talk about the first patient I ever killed in the hospital as an intern. It was a guy who drunk himself to death—with water. He suffered from a neurological condition that causes pathological thirst. I knew enough to order his liquids to be restricted and have his sink shut off, but didn’t think to turn off his toilet.).

Anyway, does it have to be plain, straight water? It shouldn’t seem to matter, right? Water is water, whether flavored or sweetened in some diet drink. But it does matter. When trying to prevent fainting before blood donation, something like juice doesn’t work as well as plain water. When trying to keep people from getting dizzy when they stand up, water works. But, the same amount of water with salt added doesn’t. What’s going on?

We used to think the trigger was stomach distention. When we eat, our body shifts blood flow to our digestive tract, in part by releasing noradrenaline to pull in blood from our limbs. This has been called the gastrovascular reflex. So, drinking water was thought to be just a zero-calorie way of stretching our stomach. But instead, drink two cups of saline (basically salt water), and the metabolic boost vanishes; so, stomach expansion can’t explain the water effect.

We now realize our body appears to detect osmolarity, the concentration of stuff within a liquid. Covertly slip liquids of different concentrations into people’s stomachs with a feeding tube, and you can demonstrate this by monitoring sweat production (which is a proxy for noradrenaline release). This may be a spinal reflex, as it’s preserved in quadriplegics, or picked up by the liver, as we see less noradrenaline release in liver transplant patients (who’ve had their liver nerves severed). Whichever the pathway, our body can tell. Thought we only had five senses? The current count is upwards of 33 (so, maybe the Bruce Willis movie should have been called The Thirty-FOURTH Sense).

In my Daily Dozen recommendation, I rank certain teas as among the healthiest beverages. After all, they have all the water of water with an antioxidant bonus. But from a weight-loss perspective, plain water may have an edge. That may explain the studies showing overweight and obese individuals randomized to replace diet beverages with water lost significantly more weight. This was chalked up to getting rid of all those artificial sweeteners, but maybe instead the diet drinks were too concentrated to offer the same water-induced metabolic boost. Diet soda, like tea, has about ten times the concentration of dissolved substances compared to tap water. So, plain water on an empty stomach may be the best.

Does the temperature of the water matter? In a journal published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers, an engineering professor proposed that the “secret” of a raw food diet for weight loss was the temperature at which the food was served. To bring two cups of even just room temperature water up to body temperature, he calculated the body would have to dip into its fat stores and use up 6,000 calories. Just do the math, he says: a calorie is defined as the amount of energy required raise one gram of water one degree Celsius. So, since two cups of water is about 500 grams, and the difference between room temp and body temp is about a dozen degrees Celsius. 500 x 12 = 6,000-plus calories needed.

Anyone see the mistake? In nutrition, a “calorie” is actually a kilocalorie, a thousand times bigger than the same word used in the rest of the sciences. Confusing, right? Still, I’m shocked the paper was even published.

So, drinking two cups of room temperature water actually only takes six calories to warm up, not 6,000. Now, if you were a hummingbird drinking four times your body weight in chilly nectar, you could burn up to 2 percent of your energy reserves warming it up, but it doesn’t make as much of a difference for us.

What about really cold water, though? A letter called “The Ice Diet” published in the Annals of Internal Medicine estimated that eating about a quart of ice—like a really, really big snow cone with no syrup—could rob our body of more than 150 calories, the “same amount of energy as the calorie expenditure in running one mile.” It’s not like you directly burn fat to warm up the water, though. What your body does is just corrals more of the waste heat you normally give off by constricting blood flow to your skin. But how does it do that? Noradrenaline!

If you compare drinking body-temperature water, to room-temperature water, to cold water, there’s only a significant constriction in blood flow to the skin after the room temp and cold water. And neither the warm nor tepid water could boost metabolic rate as much as cold (fridge temperature) water. So, your body does, after all, end up at least indirectly burning off more calories when you drink your water cold.

So, two cups of cold water on an empty stomach a few times a day. Does it matter when? Yes, watch my Evidence-Based Weight Loss lecture to see how you can add the benefit of negative-calorie preloading by drinking that water right before your meals.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Video production by Glass Entertainment

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

Drink two cups of water and you can get a surge of the adrenal hormone noradrenaline in your bloodstream, as if you just smoked a few cigarettes or downed a few cups of coffee, which boosts your metabolic rate up to 30 percent within an hour––which, when put to the test in randomized controlled trials, appeared to accelerate weight loss by 44 percent, certainly making it the safest, simplest, and cheapest way to boost your metabolism.

Now, if you’re on a beta blocker drug, this entire strategy may fail. (Beta blockers are typically prescribed for heart conditions or high blood pressure, and tend to end with the letters “lol,” such as atenolol, nadolol, or propranolol, sold as Tenormin, Corgard, or Inderal, respectively.)  So, for example, if you give people the beta blocker drug metoprolol (sold as Lopressor) before they chug their two cups of water, the metabolic boost is effectively prevented. This makes sense, since the “beta” that’s being blocked in beta blockers are the beta receptors triggered by noradrenaline. Otherwise, though, the water should work. But what’s the best dose, type, temperature, and timing?

Just a single cup may be sufficient to rev up the noradrenaline nerves, but additional benefit is seen at two or more cups. Caution: one should never drink more than three cups in an hour, though, since that starts to exceed the amount of fluid your kidneys can handle. If you have heart or kidney failure, your physician may not want you drinking extra water at all, but even with healthy kidneys, any more than three cups of water an hour can start to critically dilute the electrolytes in your brain with potentially critical consequences. (In How Not to Diet, I talk about the first patient I ever killed in the hospital as an intern. It was a guy who drunk himself to death—with water. He suffered from a neurological condition that causes pathological thirst. I knew enough to order his liquids to be restricted and have his sink shut off, but didn’t think to turn off his toilet.).

Anyway, does it have to be plain, straight water? It shouldn’t seem to matter, right? Water is water, whether flavored or sweetened in some diet drink. But it does matter. When trying to prevent fainting before blood donation, something like juice doesn’t work as well as plain water. When trying to keep people from getting dizzy when they stand up, water works. But, the same amount of water with salt added doesn’t. What’s going on?

We used to think the trigger was stomach distention. When we eat, our body shifts blood flow to our digestive tract, in part by releasing noradrenaline to pull in blood from our limbs. This has been called the gastrovascular reflex. So, drinking water was thought to be just a zero-calorie way of stretching our stomach. But instead, drink two cups of saline (basically salt water), and the metabolic boost vanishes; so, stomach expansion can’t explain the water effect.

We now realize our body appears to detect osmolarity, the concentration of stuff within a liquid. Covertly slip liquids of different concentrations into people’s stomachs with a feeding tube, and you can demonstrate this by monitoring sweat production (which is a proxy for noradrenaline release). This may be a spinal reflex, as it’s preserved in quadriplegics, or picked up by the liver, as we see less noradrenaline release in liver transplant patients (who’ve had their liver nerves severed). Whichever the pathway, our body can tell. Thought we only had five senses? The current count is upwards of 33 (so, maybe the Bruce Willis movie should have been called The Thirty-FOURTH Sense).

In my Daily Dozen recommendation, I rank certain teas as among the healthiest beverages. After all, they have all the water of water with an antioxidant bonus. But from a weight-loss perspective, plain water may have an edge. That may explain the studies showing overweight and obese individuals randomized to replace diet beverages with water lost significantly more weight. This was chalked up to getting rid of all those artificial sweeteners, but maybe instead the diet drinks were too concentrated to offer the same water-induced metabolic boost. Diet soda, like tea, has about ten times the concentration of dissolved substances compared to tap water. So, plain water on an empty stomach may be the best.

Does the temperature of the water matter? In a journal published by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers, an engineering professor proposed that the “secret” of a raw food diet for weight loss was the temperature at which the food was served. To bring two cups of even just room temperature water up to body temperature, he calculated the body would have to dip into its fat stores and use up 6,000 calories. Just do the math, he says: a calorie is defined as the amount of energy required raise one gram of water one degree Celsius. So, since two cups of water is about 500 grams, and the difference between room temp and body temp is about a dozen degrees Celsius. 500 x 12 = 6,000-plus calories needed.

Anyone see the mistake? In nutrition, a “calorie” is actually a kilocalorie, a thousand times bigger than the same word used in the rest of the sciences. Confusing, right? Still, I’m shocked the paper was even published.

So, drinking two cups of room temperature water actually only takes six calories to warm up, not 6,000. Now, if you were a hummingbird drinking four times your body weight in chilly nectar, you could burn up to 2 percent of your energy reserves warming it up, but it doesn’t make as much of a difference for us.

What about really cold water, though? A letter called “The Ice Diet” published in the Annals of Internal Medicine estimated that eating about a quart of ice—like a really, really big snow cone with no syrup—could rob our body of more than 150 calories, the “same amount of energy as the calorie expenditure in running one mile.” It’s not like you directly burn fat to warm up the water, though. What your body does is just corrals more of the waste heat you normally give off by constricting blood flow to your skin. But how does it do that? Noradrenaline!

If you compare drinking body-temperature water, to room-temperature water, to cold water, there’s only a significant constriction in blood flow to the skin after the room temp and cold water. And neither the warm nor tepid water could boost metabolic rate as much as cold (fridge temperature) water. So, your body does, after all, end up at least indirectly burning off more calories when you drink your water cold.

So, two cups of cold water on an empty stomach a few times a day. Does it matter when? Yes, watch my Evidence-Based Weight Loss lecture to see how you can add the benefit of negative-calorie preloading by drinking that water right before your meals.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Video production by Glass Entertainment

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Doctor's Note

I mentioned my Evidence-Based Weight Loss talk, which you can watch here.

Too good to be true? No, check out my last three videos on water and weight loss: How to Get the Weight Loss Benefits of Ephedra Without the Risks, The Effect of Drinking Water on Adrenal Hormones, and What Is the Safest Metabolism Booster?

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

95 responses to “Optimizing Water Intake to Lose Weight

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  1. I wonder what affect frequent urination has on calorie metabolism of body heat. Have you ever felt a chill go up your spine while losing warm fluid during urination? Frequent loss of fluid may cause frequent intake of fluid which may keep metabolism more active.

      1. Dan,

        Great music for painting window panes!

        Thank you.

        I’m not sure that the alcohol content of the drinks will increase metabolism sufficiently to result in weight loss.

        Sounds like a worthwhile experiment . . .

        To you health!

        Vivamus

        1. Viv,
          Thermodynamics and metabolism are at work, not only with water intake, but also with water loss. Peeing outside on a sub freezing day gives up crucial core heat, enough to cause shivering or metabolic catch-up. This reflex can be experienced inside also.

          1. Dan,

            Peeing outside in Siberia – forty degrees below zero – the urine freezes before hitting the ground.

            “Crinkling” sound more than a “tinkling”sound.

            Sound travels for miles in the dense cold Siberian air – no other sound but your own in the deserted landscape – hearing at its most sensitive.

            I would not recommend the experience.

            Vivamus

  2. So there’s your hyponatremia questions answered.

    Folks have all sorts of notions about drinking water. It’s that tug-of-war Deb made reference to. Hot/cold, tea/plain, etc. everybody thinks they have the answer because the great majority of them haven’t done the research, nor put anything to the test. But they hold steadfastly to their notions because humans abhor change and to accept new ideas must discard old ones that conflict.

    Here we have a doctor not afraid to dig in and find out and report to us for our own good. We are blessed, or lucky-take your pick.

    The problem I see is that those with the billions of dollars backing them (industry) are the worst possible sources of information, but are the Grand Masters of shaping the American mindset and consumption patterns. They can afford to tell the lies, louder and bigger and more often than any doctor or nutritionist could. What’s worse is that I don’t expect this to change much, no matter how deeply our nation and the Western world plunge into diet-driven disease. But at some point it has to change.

    Had my pint of cool well water this morning. I like it. I can drink it down in two or three pulls over a few minutes. It knocks out any hunger for my breakfast–so I can do other things without the oatmeal craving I’ve developed. The effect lasted 2 hours yesterday.

    My well water is about the same as rainwater, 4.5-5.0 pH. And I can alter that or make it fizzy. Sometimes I do both, but not since this series. Perhaps someday someone studies water pH for human consumption (who isn’t selling pH-altering devices) for us to understand better.

    1. Wade, Dr Greger has looked at water ph question as well as many other topics relating to water. Look for the video bottom right… Alkaline water: A scam? https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/water/

      So, from the study article, the metabolic effects starts within 10 min of ingesting the water, reaches a maximum within 30 min and lasts for about an hour…. hence Dr Greger’s suggestion to drink it before a meal. They used 100 mg of beta blocker in the bb experimental group which is a large dose … those of us taking 6 mg might experience some metabolic effects still… not that I care, but I do care about my blood pressure rising before a doctor’s appointment. (I won’t be drinking water for 2hrs prior to appts in future!)
      My preference would be to exercise and build muscle rather than sloshing around all day to burn fat.
      https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/88/12/6015/2661518

    2. Wade,

      Yes, you have added in the alkaline or not the as the third question but that was the question in the cancer community about water.

      I have watched the video Barb posted but I can’t remember it and I am going to have to go watch it again.

  3. Notice how this lecture says ‘can get’ and ‘may be’. What ever happened to meta-analysis and not wasting peoples time with ‘could be’s’? This is no better than some eclectic herbalist telling people herbal healing wives tales.

    People USUALLY drink ice water. It is not some obscure invention seldom seen. Yet America has a weight problem. Water is not the problem. I know countless obese people who ONLY DRINK ICE WATER.

    Looking at gregors bio I also see NO CLINICAL EXPERIENCE. He only has a paper degree and no experience with patients on what ACTUALLY works and what does not, just theories from reading papers.

    He enrolled at Tufts University School of Medicine, originally for its MD/PhD program, but then withdrew from the dual-degree program to pursue only the medical degree. He graduated in 1999 as a general practitioner specializing in clinical nutrition. In 2001, he joined the Organic Consumers Association to work on mad cow issues, on which he spoke widely as cases of the disease appeared in the US and Canada, calling mad cow “The Plague of the 21st Century.”

    This guy is into being another version of Dr Oz. peddling alleged cure after cure that turns out to be anything but. Yet you never see Dr Oz revisiting any of his failed suggestions, same here.

    And intermittent fasting (a huge recommend according to gregor) has been found to cause people to lose MUSCLE tissue not fat weight.

    1. I’m not sure what the purpose of your post is, but I will say for myself, I don’t follow everything Dr. Greger says to do. I do, however, love that he presents the facts of studies so we can all be more informed and make up our own minds. Attacking him on his own website probably won’t get you the result you intend.

      1. Abby, I agree.

        I genuinely appreciate all of the details that Dr. Greger gives and I don’t see it that he is saying to people to just drink water. He is giving seriously good information to all of us and we all might drink water.

        I think that Reality bite’s comments are more painful to read because Dr. Greger was so vulnerable in the video. But I found the video very interesting and it gave enough information for me to be able to examine my water intake.

        Up until this series, I realized that I would drink water after eating. The series is getting me to think about drinking it before meals rather than as a way to wash meals down.

    2. RB, don’t know where you get your info. Intermittent fasting is Not related to muscle loss.
      Of course anyone who does not get enough physical activity, especially resistance, will lose muscle as they age.
      This study was done with young women, one group eating 13 hours a day, the other 7.5 hours, along with resistance exercise.
      Result? Both groups gained the same amount of muscle.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6735806/

    3. You don’t get awarded an MD without having treated patients. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

      I believe that he also practised as family medicine physician in Maryland for a while eg
      https://health.usnews.com/doctors/michael-greger-825841

      Also, ‘can get’ and ‘may be’ are the language of medical and nutritional research. Again, evidence that you don’t know what you are talking about. Why must you constantly be so insultingly critical? And with such poorly thought out criticisms that all you do is parade your own ignorance for all to see?

          1. F you are cracking me up these days, thank you!

            Maybe RB is the fuel for this enjoyment, but I am definitely laughing reading this last one.

      1. True Fumbs, AND …’can get’ and ‘may be’ are also a form of speech in regards to humility, and too, for allowing in scientific results dissemination, for rare cases in which a particular human body may react differently to a “generally” known high rate of results. I know, lol, I put quotes around “generally”….it may be this can get weird.

        Hey Reality Bites, I want to study where you did. Fascinating to read every time.

        FYI recent studies have shown that people shouldn’t smoke cigarettes, because you “can get” cancer. Experts in this report further revealed that getting cancer “may be” deadly or at least expensive. Now I understand with so many ‘can gets’ and ‘may be’s’ we are on shaky ground in terms of truth, but life can get confusing, and it may be that we need to step back a bit and absorb the intended meaning of things.

        Now for instance, some here would say, you “may be” “can get” a bit more observant and on the ball, but I would never comment on that.

    4. Your arguments don’t follow.

      First, people may already drink water, but not everybody and not enough.Government data showed people having four cups a day. That’s less than the the six or more we’d get from the recommendation here. Yes, some people may already be at the max, but many are not. https://www.livestrong.com/article/338496-the-average-consumption-of-water-per-day/

      Secondly, the fact that some people drink water and are still obese is irrelevant. The article discussed that the incremental value of drinking more water is that it raises metabolism, which will burn off some calories. Let’s say it hypothetically burned off 100 calories a day. If someone is obese, and eating hundreds, if not thousands of calories over what they need every day, they’re only going to be a little less obese as a result. But if someone is eating at or below their requirements, that 100 calories could contribute to losing about a pound a month. That may not be a lot, but my 100 calorie impact was hypothetical, and there’d be some cumulative loss month to month.

    5. RB,

      It doesn’t surprise me that Dr. Greger is going to be vulnerable and you are going to go for the jugular.

      What did he say about water in this one that you disapprove of?

      You are disagreeing with the studies is what it sounds like.

      The last video already told the potential effects.

      Overweight and obese men and women randomized to two cups of water before each meal lost nearly five pounds more body fat in 12 weeks than those in the control group. Both groups were put on the same calorie-restricted diet, but the one with the added water lost weight 44 percent faster. A similar randomized controlled trial found that about 1 in 4 in the water group lost more than 5 percent of their body weight compared to only 1 in 20 in the control group.

      Doesn’t sound like junk science to me.

    6. RB,

      He gave a randomized control study in this series and that is all that should be needed to justify doing a series.

      You are skeptical of the science but it was a randomized control study and, in fact, there were 2 studies.

    7. Reality bites,

      I thought that most MD graduates already had patient experience by the time they graduated, working as interns. Then, they often work as residents, with patients, after they receive their MDs. Finally, a practicing physician often joins organizations, thus working more than full time. How do you know that wasn’t what Dr. Greger did?

      Next, I am a former research scientist, and this is one of the best evidence-based sites I have found. The sources (original research articles published in peer reviewed journals) cited in each video are provided so that interested viewers can check out the original research themselves; I’ve done that myself, and I invite you to do the same. His books are extensively researched and fully annotated, with an enormous list of references, to a much greater extent than any other similar books I’ve read.

      Finally, Dr. Greger is as far from Dr. Oz as a person could be. Dr. Greger does not PEDDLE ALLEGED CURES; he provides sound evidence-based information to educate viewers who can then make their own decisions about what to eat.

      The one huge consistent recommend is to eat whole plant foods.

      But since you think he hugely recommends intermittent fasting, perhaps you can provide us with quotes to support your position, and links to the sources? Thank you.

    8. https://www.mbp.state.md.us/bpqapp/Profile.aspx

      License Number: D64571 Dr. Michael Herschel Greger
      License Type: Physician-Medical Doctor
      License Status: Active
      Licensed Issued: 05/15/2006 License Expiration: 09/30/2022

      Primary Practice Setting – N/A

      TUFTS UNIV SCH OF MED
      Graduation Year: 1999

      Lemuel Shattuck Hospital, Jamaica Plain, MA Transitional Year – Internship

      Specialty Board Certification Licensee has not reported Specialty Board Certification information for the profile site.

      Licensee has not reported Maryland Hospital Privilege information for the profile site.

      Accept Medicaid? No

      Convictions for any crime involving moral turpitude – None reported by the courts.

      ——————————————

      I would infer from the above publicly available information that Dr. Greger graduated from Medical School in 1999 and proceeded to a year’s Internship

      Most of Dr. Greger’s clinical tales seem to stem from those Golden Days of Medical Studenthood and Internship. What M.D. would not gladly return to those happy, carefree days?

      Ask any. See the reaction you get.

      Dr. Greger apparently did not then pursue a path toward Board Certification in a recognized Medical Specialty – which is somewhat unusual.

      Dr. Greger is a somewhat unusual man. And –

      We are all the richer for it.

      Additionally – it would appear that Dr. Greger does not currently maintain hospital privileges nor does he currently maintain an active office practice.

      He is maintaining an active Medical License in Maryland and is apparently largely engaged in non-clinical medical pursuits.

      All perfectly legitimate.

      It has been my impression over time that Dr.Greger’s strengths – and weaknesses – both stem from his focus on ideas over actual deep Clinical Experience.

      This is where I like to balance Dr. Greger’s enthusiasm with the deep Clinical Experience of such gentlemen as Dr.s Ornish, Mcdougall, Esselstyn, et. al.

      Get brilliant new ideas from Dr, Greger – fine – but reinforce them with a reality check via others who may have developed the judgement and wisdom that much greater clinical experience bring over time.

      Such as you might receive from your locally licensed M.D.

      —————————————————————-

      Note bene: not all brilliant ideas are good ideas.

      All the best –

      Vivamus

      ——————————————

      XL

      INTO my heart on air that kills
      From yon far country blows:
      What are those blue remembered hills,
      What spires, what farms are those?

      That is the land of lost content,
      I see it shining plain,
      The happy highways where I went
      And cannot come again.

      Housman
      A Shropshire Lad
      1896

      1. Viv, we do like to opine here and wow this is a doozy, so apologies upfront.

        Cliff notes are:
        I wish I had the same regard for the “locally licenced MD” as you do, but I just dont.
        I’m hopeful the industry and my impression of it can change.

        **************
        So, my experience, and/or observation is of countless pharmaceutical sales people in and out local GP’s doors, dope pushers really, and associated colleagues who receive direct referrals from these good old local chaps. I know too that prescriptions are written by the millions -53 million oxycodone prescriptions by a “locally licenced MD” in 2013 for instance. Just unpacking that little factoid shows that if each prescription were only filled once, by discrete recipients, it amounts to a prescription of opioids given to 1 out of every 6 man, woman and child in this country in just that year. Thankfully these particular prescriptions have lessened by 40% or so, but I’m not sure overdoses are declining.

        In fact annual prescription writing increases year after year. Should we ask about this? So far in 2020 our citizens have spent 360 billion dollars on prescriptions written by their “locally licenced MD”, and I’m only talking about retail sales.

        Of course this is not a proper study but the info does begin to tell a story of collaboration (if not collusion) between the typical MD’s and big pharma.

        I feel this interest not just in ideas, but in sharing information about paradigm shifts of reality and influence, as well as technical info of course, is Greger’s path, and it appears you agree. The ideas are what is more important to me. You seem to downgrade the idea slightly in deference to clinical experience. I know its unique, but I value the idea more than the execution. Im glad somebody figured out how to build a machine to travel to the moon, but I’m more in awe of someone who thought of the idea to do it. Engineering of any sort is awesome I must admit but more so if the engineer had the idea first.

        One of my many takaways from the stats above and my observations, which relates to your post is that if Dr.s Ornish, Mcdougall, Esselstyn, have indeed the clinical experience which you say sets them apart from Dr. Greger, I do feel he may still be an equal peer, and much closer to them than those “locals” with the clinical experience you mention.

        Perhaps their clinical experience is largely in service of the pharm. “Ive got just the thing for that”.

        Regarding the amount of money generated by the pharm as it relates to the only way our citizenry gets these drugs (by written prescription), there could be something there connecting the two. Its also possible I admit that 360 billion dollars is spent on pharmaceutical drugs simply because every doctor has exhausted all avenues, learned about his patients, implored them to make better life choices, given them the tools to do so, and demanded the pharmaceutical industry fund these progressive efforts so they don’t have to prescribe something with the stated side effect of “may cause sudden death”.

        So listen, I don’t mean to call anyone out here really, but rather I suppose there’s a wince which occurs when I sense a cuddly respect for this grand old tradition without at least some mention of these sorts of things. It compels me to mention what I just refer to as the irony of it all.

        I understand by now, through your posts, that you may truly feel that local MD’s really use their clinical experience time effectively and for good. I would hope they use it in deep dialogue with their patients to discover what they eat, how they live, what stresses they face, and reminding them to be mindful when something, anything feels off so as to deal with it quickly. I would hope they then pour over new info trying to find progressive ways not to prescribe what we know are largely useless drugs meant to keep us alive, albeit with addiction or reliance on them for our continued existence, and many of which (as in the case of heart medicines) never actually lessen the chances of stroke or heart attack.

        But I don’t.

        I recognize a presumed support of the medical system as a whole, even a fondness for same in your posts. I’ve known so many who truly love their local docs and feel they have their best interests at heart. These folks seem to have an innate automatic respect for them. I believe this is also the expectation of the local doc, in general, as a reward for long hours and expense of education and toilsome sleepless nights in a sort of bootcamp application of theory, before finally being able to get into their own practice, and well, you know, open that bank account. But then something happens for so many. Cruise-control.

        If you ask most of these same people of unquestioning trust, even those just over 40 or 45 years old, to open their medicine cabinets, an avalanche ensues. The pouring. Then if you ask them if the docs ask the sorts of questions I mentioned above, and knows them in the ways I mentioned or how soon the doc follows up after a test, they look at you like you are crazy. “Hes a busy man, he hasn’t the time for that!”

        The rub:
        I believe that for many docs, clinical experience is time spent in administrative self interest, banal exercises of extreme uninterested “social” and emotional distance with most patients, business building, sales calls, and strict hours. I truly believe my old doc could have been in his office buying shoes online, as I waited in on of the rooms for an hour to be seen. Its not all bad of course, and there is some care, and some relationships with the office manager and staff of course, but primary focus seems to be on the doc and his practice first. The patient second, if.

        For me the correlations are easily enough made, and the typical careerist “local licenced MD” seems so far off to me, from Dr.s Ornish, Mcdougall, Esselstyn,and yes, Greger, that one might feel they are of different industries.

        Its as if many of the local licensed MD’s are like fast food, compared to the real deal.

        New Doc is unbelieveable, and systems are in place to facilitate my health. My new Doc already knows more about me than all previous docs combined because he asked me questions about myself, what my goals and diets are, what my challenges are, what my concerns are, even what my interests are. He also shares many of his. (I went to another referred doc for something and he did ask me a question: “What is a good restaurant there?” etc.. )

        Vivster, I truly believe this new Doc (plants based doc) and the Dr.s Ornish, Mcdougall, Esselstyn, Greger alliance represent a warming but very very small new group of new school docs who make it a point to include caring as part of their care.

        Enshalla we get more and more of them.

        1. JB, my doctor is as you describe in your paragraph “I understand by now, through your posts….” I have always had great doctors, but this one is exceptional. Calls me every 3 to 4 weeks just to ‘check in’. And, the 3 meds I am on for heart DO lessen the risk of heart attack (along with diet, exercise, sleep) and/or stroke in heart patients. Doctors also really appreciate patients who consistently apply good self care, who willingly prioritize healthy food , and abundant outdoor recreation and exercise as important first steps in assuming responsibility for their health.

          1. If your meds include statins, as I think they do, they may also reduce cancer risk

            ‘The use of statins was associated with a 47 percent relative reduction in the risk of colorectal cancer after adjustment for other known risk factors.’
            https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa043792
            https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201013124108.htm

            Diet exercise and sleep may be necessary for good cardiovascular health but they may not always be sufficient. For example, genetically high cholesterol may be a risk factor as may be air and noise pollution and perhaps cannot always be negated by a healthy lifestyle
            https://www.who.int/airpollution/ambient/about/en/
            https://www.epa.gov/pmcourse/particle-pollution-and-cardiovascular-effects
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2072857/

          2. Barb, first I’d say you should consider yourself lucky, as I do now. But decades without such luck for me, together with associations and conversations regarding health care of friend family, associates, and independent research, knowledge of mal practice suits, etc has given ample fuel to back my observations.

            Plus the numbers. Profits. The billions in profit on pharmaceuticals as 500k die each year of a preventable disease. Its not a difficult reach for most to grasp.

            Im not sure calling you every 3-4 weeks for check-in covers the wholeness of my suggestions on care, but its a start. You may also be one to hold them in high regard automatically as well.

            I can see you are happy with him, and happily take your heart medicines. (my understanding is that this lifestyle is reported to help take one off of such drugs, but I assume yours is the rare case, and I wish you well always.)

            What I can say is that while there is the claim that these drugs stave off stroke and heart attack, Greger has stated on this site many times how many heart medicines, when “put to the test” do not ultimately lessen the risk of heart attack and stroke.

            I don’t want to suggest the following is what you are doing, but some would defend a broad fact by stating that they personally don’t have that experience. When faced with facts the response becomes: “I know plenty of obese people who drink lots of water”, or “I have always had great doctors”, as if the 53 billion prescriptions for Oxycodone (or other known killing highly profitable drugs with known profound side effects) were not prescribed by Doctors.

            Its fascinating.

            I’m not sure which drugs you are taking but I assure you there are plenty of side effects which likely go against your health as well. If you named these heart drugs here I expect we could easily find the facts.

            “Doctors also really appreciate patients who consistently apply good self care, who willingly prioritize healthy food , and abundant outdoor recreation and exercise as important first steps in assuming responsibility for their health.”

            I agree with this, but only for the atypical and small section of Docs which I mentioned who really do care.

            My contention is that this is not the norm, and as I’ve said, it appears most docs do not inquire about such patient activities. Rather they read a high blood pressure, prescribe a drug, and hand them a piece of paper with suggestions to visit the AHA website which recommends beef stroganoff as a “heart healthy meal”. To your point of Docs appreciation of patient care participation by the patient themselves, I feel the closest most docs get is a simple monotone delivery of: “Try to exercise and cut down on meat., and by the way, don’t drink much water on this drug I’m giving you.”
            (A far cry form the collaborative interview necessary to understand the patients personal paradigm)

            In fact studies have shown that Docs don’t even have faith patients will do things they recommend (cited here somewhere, I cant find it), and therefore prescribe the drugs, throwing up their hands. This, before there is even a conversation.

            This is not proactive care. It points to an “us vs. them” mentality, or a superiority complex. At that point the care which should be a collaboration is broken down to robotic measures.

            As Viv says though, I’m glad things are working out for you.

            You and I are lucky in this regard I think.

            1. JB, I truly am blessed with my medical team. Having had to undergo frightening and exaustive medical testing and interventions years ago, I feel that my doctor and specialist team really are ‘looking out for me’. I have always been a keen researcher, and a wellness-motivated type of person. But I do my homework JB. I ask questions, keep appointments, submit to minimum twice a year blood testing, and extensive testing when required.
              Doctors do get fed up with people that refuse to participate in their own recovery, and rightly so. (the movie with jim carey in jail shouting to the little Jack Russel terrier comes to mind … “put some effort into it!! ” lol)
              The odds were very much against my being alive today JB, and no, a plant diet cannot do it all nor can a pill or two. Patients with Dr Esselstyn and Dr Ornish et al do take meds when required….and sometimes they are. My life is on the line, so I agreed to take mine. I think you might come to a similar stance if posed with the same circumstances.

              Having gone through another surgery not long ago, all my ‘stuff’ is up to date, so I really appreciate my doctor taking time out in her busy (covid response) day to say hello and ask how things are going.

    9. You do know, Reality bites, that you do not *have* to visit this site, watch the doc’s videos, or comment on the videos. You just seem to have so many problems with everything here. Perhaps just move on and find something that better suits you. It’s not good for your health.

    10. Reality Bites….But you provide zero evidence that Dr Gregor provides information and evidence that it incorrect.
      Everything I see here on nutrition facts.org is backed up with evidence , medical papers and great explanations.
      I think you are wrong RealityBites

  4. What about adding electrolytes, both macro and micro minerals? Salt may not help, but I find that having the combinations of salt, potassium, and magnesium, plus trace minerals really help with my hydrations.

    1. AC Slater,

      Adding in electrolytes may have benefits at other times such as sports.

      I do drink one mineral water every day because I love the taste of it especially cold. I also like adding lemon to ice water.

      My church used to do a lot of fasting and I watched my pastor become almost like a statue – eyes open, but totally unresponsive all the way until the ambulance came – and it was that he needed electrolytes. People who are fasting often drink more water than they normally would.

    1. Ron Harris,

      Depends on the size of your glass.

      Dr. Greger used the word cup and there are 8 oz in a cup of water and that is important because none of my glasses are 8 ounces.

      When it is summer, I often buy a huge cold glass bottle of a brand at Whole Foods for the ride home and that is probably the whole 3 cups that Dr. Greger just said to not go over.

  5. The real question is which water should we drink.   What is the most healthy and which water is most nutritious?   Those are the questions that we would like answered.   Those are the hard questions.

    1. Justine,

      Yes, they are hard questions.

      Dr. Greger does have videos on bottled water versus filtered water versus tap water but I will tell you that it is still complicated to me.

      In the end, I want mine filtered but I also want to treat it with UV light so that I don’t end up with all of the bacteria from the filter.

  6. @Reality bites:

    The doctor has dedicated his life to giving the general public free health information based on science.

    You don’t have to read it or believe it. If you would not participate in his website I and others would be happier.

    He is reading all the scientific literature, breaking it down into layman’s terms and summarizing the information.

    I am a scientist and appreciate everything he is doing for us.

    Negative Nellie’s should not be here.

    1. Le Roy Graham,

      A scientist is in the house.

      I appreciate everything he is doing for us, too.

      Rb is fascinating to me. I listen to Rb talk about plants and food and health and there is such a passion there.

      But the snarky comments often do add stress to the site.

      Today’s comment added more stress. Mostly because Dr. Greger did a confession that needed an emotional pause. That had to be so painful for him to have gone through. Mentally, I was there thinking about how amazing it was that he shared that with us as if we were his friends and then, while I am thinking about the human being Michael Greger, I scroll down and Rb was already pouncing. In fact, Rb was pouncing even more than normal.

      I am used to Rb wanting to pounce but some people stop pouncing when a person is vulnerable and some people go for the jugular and Rb goes for the jugular and that does add stress to the site. I still feel like Rb could just stop pouncing and Rb has so much information on the inside that he could be such a valuable audience member. But that going for the jugular part is what gets in the way.

      1. I think it is more that Rb doesn’t trust the science on some topics and, interestingly, Rb uses anecdotal evidence to come against Dr. Greger when Dr. Greger is using studies.

        There are videos that do fall short of the gold standard but when that happens, Dr. Greger says why he still posted it.

        In this case, Dr. Greger gave at least 2 randomized-controlled studies but Rb is going to know people who drink ice water.

        Rb, if you just stuck to giving the arguments against the science that is being shared, that would be amazing.

        But none of these studies have 100% results, and that is why Dr. Greger is using studies, not anecdotal evidence.

        The absence of 100% results does not make it junk science and this particular video is explaining why it might not work for certain people and why people with certain health conditions, such as kidney problems, might need to talk with their doctors.

        Barb gives the blood pressure example as why another group of people might not use it.

        Each of those things are specific examples and it is okay to share if you have anecdotal evidence that built a case.

        But you are using anecdotal evidence to prove that Dr. Greger is an inexperienced quack and that is where people get upset.

      2. Deb,
        RB has got his own thing going on and I shrug it off as a cookie monster syndrome. We may not understand it. I will say RB makes good comments now and then.

  7. First of all:
    Thank you for creating this site! I appreciate & am grateful for your efforts, knowledge & willingness to share the information with us!

    Secondly – Re: Water.

    Since our tap water contains chlorine I choose to consume distilled water. (DH2O)

    1. Does consuming DH2O change the efficacy & results you mentioned in this video?
    2. If one adds a ‘water mineralizer’ (assists in alkalizing water) to the DH2O does the result change?
    3. Same question for filtered water (via refrigerator filter) – does the result change?

    Thank you for addressing these questions.

  8. Pumpkin Seed oil can prevent hair loss. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4017725/ I think there is a lot of Phosphorus in pumpkin seed oil. Perhaps the whole plant would be better. There was a study that AIDs patents had low phosphorus and those with the lowest had more heart disease on pubmed, with kidney patents too, and orange vegetables were good for heart disease. Is phosphorus good for heart disease? Are lentils, soybeans, and pumpkins the best for heart disease? I almost think they are. The predimed study pulled out bean and lentil consumption and they found that the third quartile of beans and lentil consumption had 2.23 times the heart disease (that’s how much beans and lentils reduced heart disease), and lentils eaters had only about a third of the cancer risk. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29352655/ Is pumpkin seed oil a treatment to baldness, heart disease, and cancer? It was somewhat effective in rats. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6139218/ Potassium can treat gingivitis, I think and phosphorus and potassium are good for teeth. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6139218/

  9. Off topic: Ezekiel 4:9 bread. I’m back in to the effort to go to a separate grocery store just to pick up several loaves of Ezekiel 4:9 bread. What a difference! What a nutritional, substantive, satisfying bread! A meal in itself.

  10. Please, please, PUH-LEEEZE… don’t use the word, “anyways”!!! It makes you sound dumb.

    Your mega fan
    Nai’a Newlight
    Maui

  11. My friend who wore a bra from China just had her doctor put her on steroids for it.

    She said that the imprint of the whole bra is still on her skin.

    Can formaldehyde really do that?

    1. Deb,
      –Ancient joke from childhood days:
      –Do you know what “discouragement” is?
      –It’s when you put your bra on backwards and it fits.

      –Discouragement for underwear is when you take it off and throw it against the wall and it sticks.

  12. (1) By recollection – corrections are welcome:

    I do not recollect other WFPB doctors pushing water on their patients. Dr.s Ornish, Mcdougall, Esselstyn, et. al.

    If anyone recollects otherwise – please inform.

    (2) There are plenty of reasons not to push water.

    (3) Decreased metabolism via calorie reduction – not increased metabolism by calorie expenditure – is linked to mammalian longevity.

    (4) On a WFPB diet centered on vegetables and fruit, you are getting plenty of water, anyway. These foods are typically both low in calories and ~85%-95% water by weight:

    Water content of vegetables:

    https://tools.myfooddata.com/nutrient-ranking-tool/Water/Vegetables/Highest/100g/Common/No

    Water content of fruit:

    https://tools.myfooddata.com/nutrient-ranking-tool/Water/Fruits/Highest/100g/Simple

    And there is no concern as to tap water chlorination pollution, lead pipe pollution, or electrolyte dilution.

    (5) As far as weight loss is concerned, I do not recollect Dr. McDougall pushing water – as I recall, he just recommends backing off on grains – and perhaps fruit.

    Nor does Jeff Novick, R.D. push water with his wonderful piece on “Calorie Density: How To Eat More, Weigh Less and Live Longer”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CdwWliv7Hg

    (6) With the longest lived traditional populations, I have never heard of any big pushing of water. If you focus is health and longevity, increased hydration may not be a good idea.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone

    Nowhere in the famous Venn diagram nor in the “nine lessons” of the Blue Zones is increased hydration mentioned.

    (7) In my encounters with the elderly – people in their 90s and 100s – I have seen no emphasis on drinking lots of water.

    I do not teach them. I watch, listen and learn all I can from them.

    ——————————————

    All-in-all – this whole emphasis on drinking lots of water seems to be a fairly half-baked idea.

    Interesting on paper – divorced from reality.

    I counsel caution.

    All the best –

    Vivamus

    1. I’m not sure that reporting the findings of scientific studies on the matter constitutes ‘pushing’ water. It is a nice example of ‘loaded’ language though.

      As for your other comments, I presume that they reflect your observations, experience, reasoning ability and judgement. And self-confidence.

      It was my impression however that most Western clinicians are well aware of the risks of dehydration, especially among the elderly
      hhttps://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/73/suppl_2/97/1930742
      https://www.medicaldaily.com/75-americans-may-suffer-chronic-dehydration-according-doctors-247393

      In the Third World, I thought it was equally well known that dehydration is a major cause of child mortality, especially as a result of cholera, diarrhea etc

    2. Vivamus,

      All my life I have heard to drink 8 glasses of water and I always drank zero glasses of water a day for decades and decades.

      I drink it now and I do feel like it helps in so many ways. I read that it helped with anxiety and depression and that it can be protective over kidneys (though there are conflicted results depending on having kidney disease, but there are studies where it was called protective.)

      Just about every elderly person I have ever met has been yelled at by their doctors for dehydration and it did affect their pulse ox and other things.

      I never really ate fruit or much vegetables either and often I do fall back to more beans and rice with a microgreen salad.

      I have come to see water as essential now. It feels like my teeth are healthier and my breath is better and I feel like Dr. Greger recommending 2 glasses before each meal is only 6 cups per day when I always heard 8, so I wouldn’t call 6 cups of water to be “pushing water.” Plus, even when I was eating salad as my main meal every single day for a year, I didn’t really lose weight, so that means I ate too many calories even if almost all of it was vegetables.

      I feel like I have a slow metabolism probably from years of dieting. I read that the Biggest Losers would often have to eat almost 1000 calories less than other people even though they had exercised for hours per day the whole time. Their metabolism shut off and stayed shut off for years later.

      I have plateaud and that plateau seems to be there no matter which version of eating I have done. (Except processed food like Amy’s meals and I gained weight from those) so things like drinking water before meals is something to try. I am grateful that there are still things to try.

    3. Vivamus,

      You think that 6 cups of water per day is “lots of water” and I always heard that we were supposed to drink 8 cups of water.

      You mentioned calorie density and “water” is one of the categories in that.

      Watery fruits, water content of soups, water itself is one of the categories.

    4. Viv,
      Dr. McDougall refers patients, that don’t respond to diet change, to True North clinic where supervised water fasting is a therapy. It seems that DIY groups, churches, challenge groups and lone experimenters can run into fatal situations playing around with water and food.

      1. Dan,

        You wrote: “True North clinic where supervised water fasting is a therapy”

        References to this have always struck me as bizarre, so I have never looked into the details.

        Any experience with this?

        Vivamus

        1. Viv,
          –Not personally.
          –I think the water fasting is used as a reset process, followed by WFPB eating.
          –You wrote that you transitioned with meat substitutes but no longer desire the taste of meat. Sounds like a safer way to transition.

  13. Vivamus,

    I don’t mean to say that as defensive.

    I never drank any water ever in my life. I didn’t like the taste of the tap water and never bought bottled water.

    But now I do feel like that has done incredible things for me and that would be one of the first things I would recommend and I already know that none of my family or friends drink water at all either so it would be hard to convince them but once you start drinking water, it becomes refreshing after a while.

  14. I guess anecdotally that I can say for sure that when you are young you can live for decades without fruit, vegetables, water, grains, or any of it. I did eat french fries and hash browns and tater tots and potatoes a lot of different ways for some of those years so maybe I was getting all of my nutrition from that. Not sure. But it took multi decades before I had to worry about anything. Calories and vitamins are all you really need for a very long time.

    Not recommending that to anyone but it is the truth.

    I have known multiple children who have never had a vegetable other than french fries and who never had fruit other than a cherry on top.

  15. The years I was at Sparkpeople, almost every single person there started with glasses of water because it was easier than getting rid of things and it cleanses the taste buds and adds to satiety.

    They have so many people who went from being so heavy that they couldn’t get out of bed to running 5K’s and none of them did it WFPB way and most of them weren’t Keto either.

    They would start with 8 glasses of water and then add 10 minutes of exercise and they had videos up so people could exercise in chairs or in bed because of the number of people who had to start there. But there were so many people who lost half their body weight by the end and mostly they were an encouraging, loving community. But they all started with water because that was the easiest step.

  16. I see drinking water as a healthy habit and that was what Sparkpeople was about and I feel like Dr. Greger is giving the science to why what they were doing worked for so many people.

    They did such small habits that people here would think that it was ridiculous but I just went there and read the first testimonial and a woman moved from exercising in bed to exercising in a wheel chair eventually to 5K one tiny habit at a time.

  17. If I compare WFPB to Sparkpeople, they didn’t focus on which healthy habits to do. They focused on a “You Got This” attitude about choosing 1 healthy habit or 2 at a time and slowly developing a healthier life. It might be drinking water for the first several weeks. Then, something else. But they have a lot of success stories and it is people going from 450 pounds to 180 pounds and things like that. They embraced people no matter where they were. More like Planet Fitness. They didn’t ego up on them and didn’t make fun of them. They celebrated that they were there at all and that was what was being communicated.

    I feel like people who come from some backgrounds look down on people because they don’t understand. But that community had so many success stories and I honestly got to about goal weight with them. I just didn’t keep it off and that was because I didn’t have a WFPB understanding on top of what they did and I didn’t keep a handle on the habits when my life got really busy with caretaking.

  18. What I see as a difference is that the Sparkpeople community spent all its time trying to convince people that tiny steps matter so much that they make all the difference and that things like drinking water can make a big difference and they would post an article about the same studies.

    This community, other than Dr. Greger, most people don’t believe that small changes are enough and get grumpy about when things are presented as if it would matter.

    They win with attitude and they get the Half Their Size magazine cover almost every year.

  19. I guess that is my anecdotal evidence versus Rb’s anecdotal evidence.

    I just even hear the water recommendation and have memories of a whole community succeeding and starting there myself and I remember it was so painful to drink water and even that was hard but it was this powerful accomplishment and it was a spark to make more changes.

    1. I agree Vivamus, we have to try to do what’s best for us, personally. Taking small steps with minimal effort assumes a person has the luxury of time, which of course, many do not. Many may think they do, but they may not even if in just some area or other. In my (unfortunately) extensive health investigations I have learned that it can make a difference how long a person stays ill… or puts off becoming healthy (losing weight, eating our veggies, sobering up etc etc) in a serious way. If I had the chance to do it over, I wouldn’t delay past 35…
      As it was, I thankfully did many things right all along, and some things very wrong, and I had to change overnight. Just that simple.

      1. “If I’d known I was going to live this long, I’d have taken better care of myself.”

        “I don’t have any bad habits. They might be bad habits for other people, but they’re all right for me.

        Eubie Blake at 100
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Mu4L7G9fkM

        “James Hubert “Eubie” Blake (February 7, 1887 – February 12, 1983), was an American composer, lyricist, and pianist of ragtime, jazz, and popular music. In 1921, he and his long-time collaborator Noble Sissle wrote Shuffle Along, one of the first Broadway musicals to be written and directed by African Americans.[1] Blake’s compositions included such hits as “Bandana Days”, “Charleston Rag”, “Love Will Find a Way”, “Memories of You” and “I’m Just Wild About Harry”. The musical Eubie!, which opened on Broadway in 1978, featured his works. ”
        Wikipedia
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eubie_Blake

        And a favorite:

        “The people wanted to believe that the Negroes couldn’t learn to read music but had a natural talent for it. So we never played with no music. I’d get all the latest Broadway music from the publisher, and we’d learn the tunes and rehearse them until we had them all down pat- never made no mistakes. All the high-tone, big-time folks would say, isn’t it wonderful how these untrained, primitive musicians can pick up all the latest songs instantly without being able to read music?”
        Eubie Blake

          1. “Hard to not be ashamed of history.”

            Don’t ever be.

            Instead – keep history alive.

            Recognize the mistakes. The many, many mistakes. Avoid repeating them.

            And make whole new mistakes in their stead.

            It’s the best we can do.

            Deb.

            Good night –

            Vivamus

            ————————————————————–

            “The past does not repeat itself, but it rhymes.”

            – often misattributed to Samuel Clemens

      2. Barb,

        I agree with you about not delaying.

        I honestly do believe in building healthy habits as young as possible and keeping them.

        Mostly, I just do know from groups like Sparkpeople that there are people who don’t start young and who don’t start until they have health problems and I remember hearing that most people don’t start because they don’t think their small efforts would accomplish anything.

        That was what Sparkpeople taught me.

        Because they started with tiny steps and believed that if you strung enough tiny steps together you end up with amazing results, that is why people who were starting at 600 pounds would start.

        Each one of those people who succeeded started at the beginning of the year almost just by faith and the first few weeks they just drank 8 cups of water and maybe the next few weeks they just drank 8 cups of water and slept at night or exercised in bed for 10 minutes a day but what was always surprising was how much they had accomplished with those small steps by the end of a year.

        I spent a few years with them and really did lose so much weight and ended up getting in much better shape. I joined Planet Fitness at the same time and I had never felt comfortable in gyms but it was as if I found these loving, accepting communities and my mindset because of Sparkpeople was, “I will go to the gym and all I have to do is 10 minutes” and that was what got me to go and I did 20 minutes on a bike the first day and my foot was injured and I was afraid of trying the treadmill which I had done in the past but within a few months I was hobbling on a treadmill.

        What they gave me was the concept of how powerful the smallest steps really are.

        And they did it so that people could make several small steps without even beginning to deal with their sugar addictions or fat and salt addictions.

        From the WFPB direction, a story by Dr. Lisle comes to mind where he said that he had one person who refused to change anything at all and eventually he got that person just to eat oatmeal for breakfast and with that one change they lost something like 75 pounds. Not sure that was how many pounds but it was something like that. Just from one little change.

        1. Deb.

          I started with one salad a week. And failed.

          That was far too much work.

          Then one carrot a day – and succeeded. One carrot was not hard. By a few weeks it was a habit – time to branch out –

          Added a stalk of celery a day. But half the bag rotted out before I was done – so I went to two stalks a day.

          Added an apple a day.

          Then an orange.

          Some days it gets up to eleven or so – some fourteen – each one different.

          Some cooked, some raw.

          Watermelon, pineapple, kale, onion, mushroomings, corn, garlic, Greek oregano, nuts, seeds, chocolate, beans, whole grains – each a different sort –

          I did not say “no” to the bad stuff so much – didn’t really have to.

          There just wasn’t any room left.

          Deprivation doesn’t work. Displacement works. And variety.

          Displacement and variety are maintainable – long after deprivation fails.

          ————————————————————

          Incremental works for some. It has for me.

          All at once for others. Ornish speaks to this.

          Each in our own time.

          Time is experienced differently by each one of us.

          Vivamus

          ———————————————

          . . . Let seed be grass, and grass turn into hay:
          I’m martyr to a motion not my own;
          What’s freedom for? To know eternity.
          I swear she cast a shadow white as stone.
          But who would count eternity in days?
          These old bones live to learn her wanton ways:
          (I measure time by how a body sways).

          Roethke
          I Knew a Woman
          1954

  20. what temperature is considered cold? Just like we all feel differently about what temperature we’d like our soup/tea to be, our idea of cold may be different as well. So, at what temperature should it be consumed?

  21. Eventually, in a nearby interview it would be nice if Dr Greger would answer the comments from a very nearby doctor who said that Dr Greger and his volunteers only read abstracts not the studies themselves. That is not the process that has been described. I am not trying to stir things up but if that isn’t true there was defamation of character and I am not sure why or whether said person had actually read the study themselves. They didn’t give what the abstract was fraudulent about and that makes it harder to evaluate.

  22. The person said that abstracts are downright fraudulent one out of ten times but added a sentence but that they would hold up in a court of law or something like that but if it was fraudulent how does it hold up in a court of law.

  23. It wasn’t about this topic. But by not using specifics about the older topic, they put emphasis on Dr Greger not Reading the full studies.

  24. I am going to say that even if it has happened ever that he was right about that. It still is underhanded that he said it in this disrespectful and possibly downright defamatory way.

  25. Hold it! Water and ice water are far from the same thing, in terms of energy expenditure to achieve body temperature!

    The difference is between the frozen and fluid states. The transition from ice to ice-cold water takes as much energy as continuing to heat the ice water further to 80 ˚C.

    The research was about eating ice; the video calls it ice water.

  26. I am wondering about Dr. Greger’s statement: “Caution: one should never drink more than three cups in an hour, though, since that starts to exceed the amount of fluid your kidneys can handle”.

    During exercising I drink around a 1 liter in an hour. I never though about that I could potential be harmful. For sure there is an upper threshold but three cups in an hour sounds a bit too low.

  27. Sebastianjeuk,

    Clearly there are differences between your amount of water loss, ie. 2nd to exercise, your body composition, amount of intake and more.

    Overindulgence of water can really be a health issue, so use caution, consider your amounts and consume over a longer input time.

    Dr. Alan Kadish moderator for Dr. Greger http://www.Centerofhealth.com

  28. Pleass let me know if you received my comment? It just disappeared as I nearef the submit button after I put in my email address. Mojestic 1@ gmail.com. Thank you for letting me know this! It’s questions a d information was worthy of me putting it all down again. Mo

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