The COVID-19 Pandemic May Just Be a Dress Rehearsal

The COVID-19 Pandemic May Just Be a Dress Rehearsal
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There may be an even deadlier pandemic threat waiting in the wings…of chickens.

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

Even with some suppression strategies in place, millions around the world are expected to die in the COVID-19 pandemic. In the United States, a “best guess” estimate presented to the American Hospital Association was about a half a million American deaths. With sufficient social distancing that may be reduced to around 100,000. Even at a half million, though, it still—unbelievably, could be much, much worse.

With thousands already dead and millions projected to perish, billions in lockdown, and trillions lost as markets tumble, COVID-19 is still only shaping up to be a Category 2 or 3 pandemic. This is from the CDC’s pandemic planning guidelines. The Pandemic Severity Index is fashioned after the Hurricane Severity Index to define the destructive capacity of a storm. Well, this is the CDC’s attempt at classifying the destructive capacity of a pandemic. It is based on case fatality ratio, also known as the case fatality rate, the percentage of those who fall ill who eventually succumb to the infection. In the 1918 flu pandemic, about one in three fell ill and, of those, about 2 percent died. That made the 1918 pandemic a Category 5, analogous to a “super typhoon” with sustained winds exceeding 150 miles per hour. The rate of those dying from COVID-19 infection is much lower. If you include those who tested positive that were asymptomatic it’s looking like around the mortality of the last two flu pandemics, or a bad seasonal flu season. If you’re talking about true cases, people who actually get sick, we’re talking closer to the 0.5% cut-off between a category 2 and category 3 pandemic, meaning about 1 in 200 cases dying.

As you can see, the 2 percent case fatality like the 1918 pandemic is just where Category 5 starts. COVID-19 shows that SARS-like coronaviruses can escape our grasp and spark a full-blown pandemic. SARS was rapidly stamped out by fever-monitoring travelers, but by the time it was all over, there were about 800 deaths out of 8,000 cases. That’s a case fatality ratio of 10 percent. Thank heavens we’re dealing with a pandemic from the SARS-CoV-2 and not the original SARS coronavirus. Even more lethal, MERS killed more like 850 out of 2,500, which is a 34 percent case fatality rate. A one in three chance of dying if you come down with it.

Since 2002 with SARS and then 2012 with MERS, we learned that coronaviruses could become deadly. They’re not just the common cold viruses we thought they were. Now, with COVID-19, we realize this family of viruses can also explode unfettered onto the global stage. So, coronaviruses have already shown us they can do both. It’s not hard to imagine a combination of transmissibility and lethality that makes the next coronavirus pandemic worse by an order of magnitude or more.

But there’s an even greater cautionary tale to be told, which is the primary subject of my new book. We’ve long known about the pandemic potential of the flu virus, but the deadliest it ever appeared to get was the 2 percent fatality of the 1918 influenza. Now, 2 percent was enough to kill up to a hundred million people, making it the single deadliest event in human history—but an even greater threat may be waiting in the wings… of a chicken. In 1997, a flu virus was discovered in chickens that would forever change our understanding of how bad pandemics could get. So far, it’s remained a disease of poultry not people, but of the hundreds of rare individuals it has infected, more than half have died. A flu virus with a case fatality rate exceeding 50%. What if a virus like that were to mutate to acquire easy human transmissibility? The last time a bird flu virus jumped directly to humans and caused a pandemic it triggered the deadliest plague in human history. What if instead of a 2 percent death rate, it was more like… a flip of a coin?

The COVID-19 pandemic is devastating, but food is still being restocked in our grocery stores. The internet may be slow, but it’s still up. The lights are still on and safe drinking water is still flowing from the tap. If the predictions are correct and “only” about 100,000 Americans die, that’s less than 1 in 3,000. In the pandemic of 1918, in which 2% of the cases succumbed, 1 in 150 Americans died. Imagine if it were ten times as bad as 2% with 1 in 15 dying. Or twenty-five times as bad, killing 1 in 6 of us.

The good news is: there is something we can do about it. Just as eliminating the exotic animal trade and live animal markets may go a long way towards preventing the next coronavirus pandemic, reforming the way we raise domestic animals for food may help forestall the next killer flu.

We got off easy in the last pandemic. Swine flu only triggered a Category 1 pandemic in 2009, but it showed a new origin point for pandemic viruses: pork production. It was like “epidemiological blowback” from our globalizing these intensive confinement methods.

The unprecedented emergence of H5N1, and the 10 other new bird flu viruses infecting humans around the world… has been blamed on industrial poultry production. When we overcrowd tens of thousands of animals in these cramped filthy football-field sized sheds to lie beak-to-beak atop their own waste it’s just a breeding ground for disease. The sheer numbers of animals, the overcrowding, the stress crippling their immune systems, the ammonia from the decomposing waste burning their lungs, the lack of fresh air, and the lack of sunlight. Put all these factors together and what you have is really kind of a Perfect Storm environment for the emergence and spread of these so-called “superstrains” of influenza.

That’s why the United Nations has urged that governments, local authorities, and international agencies need to take a greatly increased role in combating the role of what they call factory-farming, which, combined with these live animal markets, provide ideal conditions for the flu virus to spread and mutate into a more dangerous form. These so-called CAFOs, Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations have vastly altered the evolution of the influenza virus.

The H5N1 virus started out like all bird flu viruses as harmless waterborne intestinal infections of waterfowl, but only gained airborne transmission and the ramping up of extreme virulence within massive intensive poultry production. Perhaps only a change in conditions as great as 10-million bird mega-farms could account for the dramatic series of mutations sufficient to create such a monster.

There also seems to be an acceleration of human influenza problems over the last few decades, involving an increasing number of species, and, according the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, this is also expected to largely relate to the intensification of the poultry (and possibly pig) production. Big Ag may be brewing up Big Flu. For the underlying science, the evolutionary biological mechanisms, allow me to refer you to my invited review I wrote for Critical Reviews in Microbiology where I lay out all the evidence. It’s free; no paywall. Just go to bit.ly/flureview.

Currently the CDC considers the bird flu virus H7N9 to be our gravest threat, the virus with the highest pandemic emergence risk and the highest potential impact. An estimate was published as to what an H7N9 pandemic might look like in the United States and they concluded: millions of Americans dead.

So far, H7N9 has killed about 600 of the first 1,500 people it infected. That’s around 40%. Two in five people. Thankfully, neither H5N1 nor H7N9 have acquired the capacity for easy human-to-human transmission. But given that both H5 and H7 viruses have displayed the propensity to infect humans, there is heightened concern that they may evolve the ability to transmit between people and initiate a pandemic.

They’re still out there, still mutating. H7N9 may just be within three mutations away from effectively transmitting between people. Pandemics are always a matter of not if, but when. And a pandemic with more than a few percent mortality wouldn’t just threaten financial markets, but civilization itself as we know it.

How can we stop the emergence of pandemic viruses in the first place? If there is one concept to draw from my work on preventing and reversing chronic diseases, it’s that—whenever possible—treat the cause.

What does the poultry industry have to say for itself? The executive editor of Poultry magazine put it this way: “The prospect of a virulent flu to which we have absolutely no resistance is frightening. However, to me, the threat is much greater to the poultry industry. I’m not as worried about the U.S. human population dying from bird flu as I am that there will be no chicken to eat.”

Others are more self-reflective. Drawing on his 37 years of experience witnessing the failings in the factory faming model in terms of spreading disease, one industry insider concluded his trade publication article “Poultry Reality Check Needed,” with these prophetic words: “Now is the time to decide. We can go on with business as usual, hoping for the best as we charge headlong toward lower costs. Or, we can begin making the prudent moves needed to restore a balance between economics and long-range avian health. We can pay now or we can pay later. But it should be known and it must be said, one way or another we will pay.”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Motion graphics by AvoMedia

Image credit: j4p4n via IconsPNG.com. Image has been modified.

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

Even with some suppression strategies in place, millions around the world are expected to die in the COVID-19 pandemic. In the United States, a “best guess” estimate presented to the American Hospital Association was about a half a million American deaths. With sufficient social distancing that may be reduced to around 100,000. Even at a half million, though, it still—unbelievably, could be much, much worse.

With thousands already dead and millions projected to perish, billions in lockdown, and trillions lost as markets tumble, COVID-19 is still only shaping up to be a Category 2 or 3 pandemic. This is from the CDC’s pandemic planning guidelines. The Pandemic Severity Index is fashioned after the Hurricane Severity Index to define the destructive capacity of a storm. Well, this is the CDC’s attempt at classifying the destructive capacity of a pandemic. It is based on case fatality ratio, also known as the case fatality rate, the percentage of those who fall ill who eventually succumb to the infection. In the 1918 flu pandemic, about one in three fell ill and, of those, about 2 percent died. That made the 1918 pandemic a Category 5, analogous to a “super typhoon” with sustained winds exceeding 150 miles per hour. The rate of those dying from COVID-19 infection is much lower. If you include those who tested positive that were asymptomatic it’s looking like around the mortality of the last two flu pandemics, or a bad seasonal flu season. If you’re talking about true cases, people who actually get sick, we’re talking closer to the 0.5% cut-off between a category 2 and category 3 pandemic, meaning about 1 in 200 cases dying.

As you can see, the 2 percent case fatality like the 1918 pandemic is just where Category 5 starts. COVID-19 shows that SARS-like coronaviruses can escape our grasp and spark a full-blown pandemic. SARS was rapidly stamped out by fever-monitoring travelers, but by the time it was all over, there were about 800 deaths out of 8,000 cases. That’s a case fatality ratio of 10 percent. Thank heavens we’re dealing with a pandemic from the SARS-CoV-2 and not the original SARS coronavirus. Even more lethal, MERS killed more like 850 out of 2,500, which is a 34 percent case fatality rate. A one in three chance of dying if you come down with it.

Since 2002 with SARS and then 2012 with MERS, we learned that coronaviruses could become deadly. They’re not just the common cold viruses we thought they were. Now, with COVID-19, we realize this family of viruses can also explode unfettered onto the global stage. So, coronaviruses have already shown us they can do both. It’s not hard to imagine a combination of transmissibility and lethality that makes the next coronavirus pandemic worse by an order of magnitude or more.

But there’s an even greater cautionary tale to be told, which is the primary subject of my new book. We’ve long known about the pandemic potential of the flu virus, but the deadliest it ever appeared to get was the 2 percent fatality of the 1918 influenza. Now, 2 percent was enough to kill up to a hundred million people, making it the single deadliest event in human history—but an even greater threat may be waiting in the wings… of a chicken. In 1997, a flu virus was discovered in chickens that would forever change our understanding of how bad pandemics could get. So far, it’s remained a disease of poultry not people, but of the hundreds of rare individuals it has infected, more than half have died. A flu virus with a case fatality rate exceeding 50%. What if a virus like that were to mutate to acquire easy human transmissibility? The last time a bird flu virus jumped directly to humans and caused a pandemic it triggered the deadliest plague in human history. What if instead of a 2 percent death rate, it was more like… a flip of a coin?

The COVID-19 pandemic is devastating, but food is still being restocked in our grocery stores. The internet may be slow, but it’s still up. The lights are still on and safe drinking water is still flowing from the tap. If the predictions are correct and “only” about 100,000 Americans die, that’s less than 1 in 3,000. In the pandemic of 1918, in which 2% of the cases succumbed, 1 in 150 Americans died. Imagine if it were ten times as bad as 2% with 1 in 15 dying. Or twenty-five times as bad, killing 1 in 6 of us.

The good news is: there is something we can do about it. Just as eliminating the exotic animal trade and live animal markets may go a long way towards preventing the next coronavirus pandemic, reforming the way we raise domestic animals for food may help forestall the next killer flu.

We got off easy in the last pandemic. Swine flu only triggered a Category 1 pandemic in 2009, but it showed a new origin point for pandemic viruses: pork production. It was like “epidemiological blowback” from our globalizing these intensive confinement methods.

The unprecedented emergence of H5N1, and the 10 other new bird flu viruses infecting humans around the world… has been blamed on industrial poultry production. When we overcrowd tens of thousands of animals in these cramped filthy football-field sized sheds to lie beak-to-beak atop their own waste it’s just a breeding ground for disease. The sheer numbers of animals, the overcrowding, the stress crippling their immune systems, the ammonia from the decomposing waste burning their lungs, the lack of fresh air, and the lack of sunlight. Put all these factors together and what you have is really kind of a Perfect Storm environment for the emergence and spread of these so-called “superstrains” of influenza.

That’s why the United Nations has urged that governments, local authorities, and international agencies need to take a greatly increased role in combating the role of what they call factory-farming, which, combined with these live animal markets, provide ideal conditions for the flu virus to spread and mutate into a more dangerous form. These so-called CAFOs, Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations have vastly altered the evolution of the influenza virus.

The H5N1 virus started out like all bird flu viruses as harmless waterborne intestinal infections of waterfowl, but only gained airborne transmission and the ramping up of extreme virulence within massive intensive poultry production. Perhaps only a change in conditions as great as 10-million bird mega-farms could account for the dramatic series of mutations sufficient to create such a monster.

There also seems to be an acceleration of human influenza problems over the last few decades, involving an increasing number of species, and, according the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, this is also expected to largely relate to the intensification of the poultry (and possibly pig) production. Big Ag may be brewing up Big Flu. For the underlying science, the evolutionary biological mechanisms, allow me to refer you to my invited review I wrote for Critical Reviews in Microbiology where I lay out all the evidence. It’s free; no paywall. Just go to bit.ly/flureview.

Currently the CDC considers the bird flu virus H7N9 to be our gravest threat, the virus with the highest pandemic emergence risk and the highest potential impact. An estimate was published as to what an H7N9 pandemic might look like in the United States and they concluded: millions of Americans dead.

So far, H7N9 has killed about 600 of the first 1,500 people it infected. That’s around 40%. Two in five people. Thankfully, neither H5N1 nor H7N9 have acquired the capacity for easy human-to-human transmission. But given that both H5 and H7 viruses have displayed the propensity to infect humans, there is heightened concern that they may evolve the ability to transmit between people and initiate a pandemic.

They’re still out there, still mutating. H7N9 may just be within three mutations away from effectively transmitting between people. Pandemics are always a matter of not if, but when. And a pandemic with more than a few percent mortality wouldn’t just threaten financial markets, but civilization itself as we know it.

How can we stop the emergence of pandemic viruses in the first place? If there is one concept to draw from my work on preventing and reversing chronic diseases, it’s that—whenever possible—treat the cause.

What does the poultry industry have to say for itself? The executive editor of Poultry magazine put it this way: “The prospect of a virulent flu to which we have absolutely no resistance is frightening. However, to me, the threat is much greater to the poultry industry. I’m not as worried about the U.S. human population dying from bird flu as I am that there will be no chicken to eat.”

Others are more self-reflective. Drawing on his 37 years of experience witnessing the failings in the factory faming model in terms of spreading disease, one industry insider concluded his trade publication article “Poultry Reality Check Needed,” with these prophetic words: “Now is the time to decide. We can go on with business as usual, hoping for the best as we charge headlong toward lower costs. Or, we can begin making the prudent moves needed to restore a balance between economics and long-range avian health. We can pay now or we can pay later. But it should be known and it must be said, one way or another we will pay.”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Motion graphics by AvoMedia

Image credit: j4p4n via IconsPNG.com. Image has been modified.

200 responses to “The COVID-19 Pandemic May Just Be a Dress Rehearsal

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    1. “If you think your taste buds are so incredibly important that their pleasure outweighs the entire life and suffering of an innocent being, I don’t even know how you can get offended when people question your morals.”

      “All animals have the same capacity for suffering, but how we see them differs and that determines what we’ll tolerate happening to them. In the western world, we feel it wrong to torture and eat cats and dogs, but perfectly acceptable to do the same to animals equally as sentient and capable of suffering. No beings who pride themselves on rationality can continue to support such behaviour.”- Twyla Francois

      “I used to be you. I used to turn a blind eye to the suffering of animals for my food, clothing, entertainment and household items. I used to tell myself that animals didn’t matter, that my needs far exceeded the needs of some chicken in a factory. Humans are superior, at least that is what I thought. And then I could no longer live with myself, participating in the exploitation and murder of others for my selfish needs. And then I went vegan and really became me.”

      1. to be clear, Dan was satirising some common attitudes. In particular this one

        ‘What does the poultry industry have to say for itself? The executive editor of Poultry magazine put it this way: “The prospect of a virulent flu to which we have absolutely no resistance is frightening. However, to me, the threat is much greater to the poultry industry. I’m not as worried about the U.S. human population dying from bird flu as I am that there will be no chicken to eat.”

  1. I’ve told many folks that this will be repeated and the next time may be quite a bit more serious. That it’s good we had a dress rehearsal-because there’s more dangerous stuff likely to come so long as we mistreat animals, creating the habitat for virus developments.

    1. Wade TN,

      And, the response to your comments? A big yawn, I’m guessing. Most people don’t care. Even if they do know this.

      Everybody I know has already heard this — from me. Did it change their behavior, or even their attitude? Nope, not one whit.

      1. I know. Its so sad how WILLFULLY IGNORANT people choose to be so they can keep eating their meat! Meanwhile they are yelling at people to wear masks and feeling all righteous about it!

        1. Dana,

          I wear a mask when out in public. Especially when indoors, and where stores require customers to wear a mask.

          I used to cover my coughs and sneezes. And wash my hands frequently. Many, many people didn’t even do that. It was and is gross and disgusting. Because it helps spread pathogens. Yuck.

          Now, I’ve added social distancing, and wearing a mask. Why do some people have a problem with that? Especially given that there is evidence that wearing masks does decrease the infection rate.

        2. Dana,

          I have experienced the opposite. People who refuse to wear masks and who feel all righteous about it.

          The ones wearing masks seem to be more afraid of getting COVID. The ones not wearing masks are the ones who seem to be making fun of people who wear them. I watch my coworker go through that. People have made fun of him for wearing one and more than one of those people died.

          We still do have a lot of males who do make fun of it, but we lock the doors and only let people in with one.

          The locked doors with a sign have helped. We don’t have to argue with anyone. It just is that we have too many people who are older with health-comorbidities. Our state was high in cases. It is low now, but we are having an uptick again. It has been nice to be low for a while.

            1. People affected with COVID-19 and who refuse to wear masks are plain healthy people who know that wearing a mask is detrimental to their health, by increasing the viral load into their body.

              The real psychopaths are the doctors who wants to impose source control masks on COVID-19 patients and who suggest to all COVID-19 patients to wear a mask, whereas the precaution imposes to not wear a mask when one is infected.

    2. Until we stop treating animals as a commodity and give up intensive farming with poor husbandry we will continue to be at risk. It’s clear from looking at the history of other viruses that have come from animals. Time to become vegetarian or vegan.

  2. I watched the beginning and paused.

    So, if there are already 621,153 counted deaths from COVID-19 and that is before the adjustments the public health agencies always do at the end, does that mean we are already at a Category 3 before the 2nd wave?

    In the beginning of a pandemic, the counted deaths don’t reflect the rate. At what point can we just look at the deaths and estimate the death rate based on the deaths?

    1 million counted deaths?

  3. All the resources we would normally use to detect potential viruses of concern have been redirected for COVID-19….. Say we had pandemic flu and COVID at the same time. You have two groups of people who need to be sorted and separated. All the people with preparedness jobs have turned into COVID responders. Things are getting dropped

    COVID-19 is only one of the many coronavirus diseases that has existed. SARS and MERS were among the coronaviruses that killed people well before COVID-19.

    If a new coronavirus separate from COVID-19 begins to spread, there is an optimistic scenario in which the new pathogen finds it harder to move around an alert world, is rapidly detected wherever it arrives, and fizzles out because cautious citizens have their guard up. But such an “optimistic scenario,” would require strong international cooperation. A “second” coronavirus pandemic — one involving a disease other than COVID-19 — “would further tax the same resources that the U.S. has already failed to adequately marshal for COVID-19. Hospitals would also struggle. In many states, emergency rooms and intensive-care units are filling up. A second virus wouldn’t need to be that severe to push them beyond their capacity, deplete the shrinking supply of protective equipment, or create a logistical nightmare.

    1. Reality bites,

      Your point about pandemic flu and COVID at the same time is a good point.

      Eventually, the medical people have to choose where to put money and how to use resources.

      I know that HIV is one that could suddenly get out of control even with just COVID-19 and South Africa has such serious COVID-19 problem and their hospitals are already breaking down. The description of their hospitals was so gruesome already, with rats and feces all over the place, mummies, babies dying in the womb when they could have been saved, medical staff walking off the job, people getting in physical fights for oxygen because they isn’t enough to go around, etc.

    1. Ruth,

      I’m making a Butternut squash, kale & lentil soup with herbs tonight; I’m adapting a recipe I found online to cook in my IP. (Much cooler, which is important in a house with no AC in a heat wave.) I have an overlooked butternut squash…ooops!…

      I LOVE lentils! A “monastery lentil stew” from Diet for a Small Planet was one of my daughter’s favorite foods growing up; she would request it on her birthday. She still does. (And she’s 30!)

      1. Dr. J – your recipe sounds delish! I might just have to steal it :-).

        Like you, I have no AC for the summer heat and no Instapot. But I do use my slow cooker out on the back deck so that the heat stays out there. I made a whole pot of “boiled” potatoes in the slow cooker and navy beans another time. At night. I wake up in the morning and the basics are made for me. It is so easy to eat WFPB . . . as you already know.
        Cheers.

        1. Ruth,

          That’s a good way to cook in your slow cooker — on your back deck!

          And I LOVE potatoes steamed in the Instant Pot; I now eat them cooled to room temperature, or as left-over from the fridge. Both white potatoes and sweet potatoes.

          For left-over white potatoes, I spray them with ACV and sprinkle on dried dill. For sweet potatoes, I eat them plain or sprinkle on pumpkin pie spice (without sugar) — it tastes like I’m eating dessert!!

          The food is all good, right? But little tweaks can make it even better.

          1. Dr. J – I’m with ya! Love cooked potatoes, sweet, white, large, small. And I agree with the ACV & dill.
            I have a more difficult time with sweet potatoes as I gravitate more toward the savory than the sweet. Could never stand them at Thanksgiving with all that marshmallow/maple syrup topping on them. Although I do like pumpkin pie spice in a cup of tea in the evening.
            But anyway, I’ve been searching for a quick-to-make sauce for sweet (or any other) potatoes. Here’s what I”ve come up with – Yellow or any other light-tasting miso in some water to dissolve. Maybe a tablespoon. Add 1/2 lemon, couple large pressed or grated cloves garlic, 1″ of a fat fresh grated ginger root, couple turns of fresh pepper. You’ll have to play with the amounts to get it to your liking. Mix it all up and pour over warmed or cold potatoes. SO yummy!
            Another way I like to make cooked (yukon gold!) potatoes is to smash ’em in the bottom of a bowl. I leave the skins on because I don’t mind them. Pour some unsweetened soy milk over the potatoes and mash it together to make mashed potatoes. I leave some lumps. Add your salt, pepper, and some nutritional yeast and/or onion or garlic if you want those flavors. Warm in the microwave. It’s a really quick way to make a very satisfying bowl of comfort food. When I recently had some serious dental work done, with stitches in the roof of my mouth, I ate these mashed potatoes for a week. They’re also good with mushroom gravy but that takes a little longer to make.
            Thanks for your suggestions.

        2. Ruth,

          Thanks for saying that. I had the electrician put a few plugs outdoors when I did my siding and I could cook outside.

          Haven’t thought of that.

    2. Concerning not eating chicken again I thought It would be difficult however the more days you go without the closer you are to never having it again because you will get use to alternate foods I’m so happy to did it.

  4. Considering that swine flu comes from pig farms and avian flu comes from chicken farms BOTH of which are massively more widespread than exotic animal or wet markets…….until those are addressed we will still see needless pandemics even if exotic animal and wet markets are banned.

  5. We are maybe 3 weeks away from 700,000 and we could reach that in 2 weeks if the number of deaths stays at the global rate it was yesterday.

    I am using WorldOMeter’s numbers and I know that there will be variety between the sites, but still, the global deaths are getting up there where I don’t see that we will be less than a million deaths before the end of the year.

    If the global deaths dropped to 2,000 per day tomorrow, there would be over a million deaths before January 1st and there were 5,678 deaths yesterday.

    I was suspecting it to drop to 2,000 per day during the summer and then bounce back up but it is staying pretty high and it hasn’t been adjusted yet.

    Is there a chance that this will limp into a Category 5 just by counted deaths.

    I know that there was much lower population back when the 1918 pandemic happened. Are the categories based on population or deaths?

    1. Nope, It would take closer to 2500 deaths per day to get to over a million people dying by the New Year.

      But over double that number died yesterday.

        1. Darwin,

          Thank you. I understand that.

          But, the categories above have numbers of people dying and it is clear that globally we will go over 1 million deaths.

          Maybe even 2 million with adjustments.

          That is a very different percentage of the population than it was in 1918.

          I do understand that it could decrease rapidly, but, it is going to zoom past 700,000 over the next few weeks and we may have the typical fall and winter spike.

        2. Darwin,

          Also, I listened to a roundtable of immunologists and they do believe that there are people who have already gotten it twice and they specifically talked about whether it was hidden and got worse or whether they were long haulers and they do believe that people can get it twice, particularly if they had mild cases the first time and didn’t get antibodies.

          I don’t know how that fits into what you are saying.

          They can’t die twice, and now that deaths are approaching 700,000 counted deaths globally, I start there, instead of the transmission rate.

  6. I AGAIN want to point out that THIS VIDEO HAS NO USEFUL INFORMATION TO THE AVERAGE PERSON SEEKING ADVICE ON WHAT TO DO DURING THIS COVID-19 PANDEMIC.

    It is important but USELESS to people at home and is just adding to the chatter of useless information. Far too many physicians seeking fame or attention when the topic is hot are needlessly filling peoples lives with useless information that is only actually relevant to those who work in public health.

    1. Why?

      The title makes it perfectly clear that it is not intended to provide ‘USEFUL INFORMATION TO THE AVERAGE PERSON SEEKING ADVICE ON WHAT TO DO DURING THIS COVID-19 PANDEMIC.’

    2. Reality bites,

      Dr. Greger spent years in public health and I, for one, appreciate that he is participating in this discussion and I found his old pandemic books and videos more useful in preparing for this pandemic than most of the things that have been on television and the internet.

      Right now, the internet is a quagmire of conspiracy theories and COVID is a hoax, and Bill Gates is going to put microchips in everybody and kill us all theories.

      I tend to find all of those things not useful.

      Dr. Greger using his public health experience and sharing it with this audience is a blessing to me.

      You are denying his career in public health.

      You only have to listen to him once to know that public health is his deeper passion, but that he switched to nutrition because “saving lives” is the true deepest drive of his life and I highly respect that.

      Listening to him discuss pandemic on Rich Roll was so refreshing.

      Honestly, he was invited to be a part of the simulated pandemics by people who consider him qualified to have a say in this. He is also published in this area. That is why Oprah went to him back then.

      You are trying to harm his reputation and I don’t understand what you are objecting to with this video.

      Please try to be specific of what you see as he is presenting wrong so that we can discuss the specifics rather than just trying to harm Dr. Greger.

      1. Reality bites,

        Dr. Greger is one of the only voices out there saying to prevent the next pandemic.

        If people stop eating pork or chicken or if the industry changes to something like 3D printing out of his voice speaking, he could be the voice that changes the future.

        I have been listening to so many sites every day for months now, but Dr. Greger and Dr. Barnard are the main people doing this message and if this message doesn’t get out, there will likely be a next pandemic and Dr. Greger’s voice is one of the most important voices about it because nobody other than these 2 men are doing the message about animal products right now when people might listen.

      2. Mr Fumblefingers and Deb are usual writers of comments in this blog who each time are taking the defense of Dr Greger against sane and valuable critics of the delivered information.

        The website is supposed to be a nutrition and science website, delivering useful informations to the public in regards to life and death issuesactually affecting millions of people throughout the world, however no science and no nutrition at all in this whole COVID-19 serie, which only repeats mainstream propaganda from medical authorities or casual opinions of the author.

        1. I guess this is what happens when Dr Greger recycles his old content in order to publish a new book in a few weeks without actually doing his homework and digging into the subject he wants to write about.

          1. Ab,

            dr Greger said that he was reading 800 journal articles per day on Covid-19.

            Maybe you are the one not doing your homework.

          2. ab
            Greger is using history to try and predict future outcomes . It really doesn’t matter if he reads 8 or 800 articles a day , it is a formula that is not perfect .He also has no practical experience with the virus itself . The few people I have meet who had it , said it was so mild that they were not sure if they were sick or not , slight sore throat , some slight chest pain or heaviness in the chest and ,just a tiredness , but very little body ache like a normal flue . It also seems to last closer to 30 days than 2 weeks, have no idea how long a person would be contagious . One person I meet used raw garlic , which according to him speed-ed up his recovery . Since then I too have used raw garlic and will continue since it makes a person feel better in my opinion . JAN. 22 2020 Greger did a video on garlic which you should give a listen to if interested .

            1. mrpinkerton,

              I have a running count of people who have died and they were not nursing home people. Not one of them.

              Even though the nursing home my cousin had been in did have 30% of the patients die.

              COVID-19 has become the second leading cause of death in Los Angeles.

              In Florida, more young people have died this month than in all of the months of the pandemic combined.

              The thing is, parents have to weigh the 9-year-old who died in one county of Florida a few days ago and the rising death rate of young people and decide whether to send their kids back to school a month from now.

              I don’t know how they will decide but I do know that it will be excruciating because the young people are also now killing their fathers and grandfathers (I use those because those were the examples in the news the past few days) 50 teachers dying was the example from NYC when this started.

              Before this month, the risk for young children of dying, based on one study was about a similar risk for them dying in a fall.

              I don’t know whether we will end up with a similar risk for them of something like dying from drowning or not.

              Maybe not. But it doesn’t matter.

              Young people are being hospitalized more than at any time during this pandemic and we don’t know what will happen next.

            2. Mrpinkerton,

              The press said that it is likely that 50 to 80% of the children will go back to school starting in about a month.

              A few months after that is when we will begin to find out.

              The thing is, we have meds and processes already that have the ability to improve mortality by up to 94% and yet we had more young people die this month in Florida than in all of the months of the pandemic put together and it is a month before school is to start.

              When school starts. That is when we will see how many “Son went to a party and father ended up in the ICU with COVID-19” “Son went to a party and grandfather died of COVID-19” headlines we will see.

              1. Honestly, I am more frustrated that they haven’t given a study based on the teachers dying and they haven’t tested whether children spread it in the USA or how many parents got it from children bringing it home from school.

                We are a month away from the beginning of the school year and they are going to only focus on the relatively much smaller risk of young children dying, but thousands of young children have died already and that was with schools being shut down.

                I haven’t even seen the press take the issue on and it is almost too late to help the educators and parents make decisions about school.

                My coworkers daughter is supposed to go on campus the second week of August.

                1. We know that teachers died in NYC.

                  Did children from those classrooms die?

                  Did parents or grandparents linking back to those classrooms and those schools die?

                  Could somebody please help us out?

                    1. ab,

                      That is a good question.

                      I looked it up to make sure that I was remembering properly that it was 50 teachers and this article says 63 colleagues in the body, but 50 in the link.

                      https://www.insider.com/nyc-schools-should-have-closed-to-prevent-50-employees-deaths-2020-4

                      Okay, so 50 teachers, maybe 63 school employees died, but they didn’t bring back if any of the children in those classrooms died or if any of the parents or grandparents of children from those classrooms died.

                      That should be mandatory.

                      50 is such a big number for it being teachers dying.

                      Can you imagine the trauma for a young person if he gave COVID to his teacher or to his parent or grandparent or parents plural? Though with 50%+ divorce, the child could be raised by a single parent who suddenly ends up in the hospital.

                      They have not thought this through at all.

                    2. I am finding some teachers who died from other states.

                      3 got sick in Az from summer school. They said that they were wearing masks, were doing social distancing, used gloves, and hand sanitizers, but 1 died and the one interviewed still has long-term effects.

                      A 51–year-old teacher from Pasco county died in Florida. She was female and white and obviously below 65.

                      Texas has had a few teachers die, too.

                      It turns out that many states do have teachers who have died from COVID.

                      Not sure they were all on the job but many were.

                    1. ab,

                      To me the topic of this video is COVID-19 and this week, my friends who have children and my friends who are teachers have to make very big decisions and it interests me.

                      I have been reading page after page of principals and teachers dying from COVID-19 and it is already an interesting debate. A teacher in Israel says that they got it from the students and the global expert in Edinborough says that there is no proof that even one teacher got COVID-19 from their students.

                      Lots of teachers and principals and other administrators have died.

                      Can kids spread it? That hasn’t been studied in the USA yet.

                    2. I think I have mentally worked through the education logic.

                      I found an article from May in an education magazine where it said that by May, hundreds of educators have died from COVID-19.

                      One just made the news today.

                      The thing is, teachers are dying from COVID-19 during summer school and in the spring hundreds of educators died. There were principals in their 30’s who died from COVID-19.

                      There is a study using cell phones that said that the more people return to “normal” socialization, the more likely they are to get it.

                      I think the logic is that when hardly any schools are open, the ones that have been open are having teachers die. Plus, young people are dying more now than at any time during the pandemic and that is before most of them have gone back to normal life.

                      We are in summer. People have more Vitamin D. They are outside more. They are getting more exercise. More sleep probably if the Vitamin D helping sleep rings true. They are more likely to eat vegetables. There are medicines to lower the mortality of COVID-19, there are PPE now and hand sanitizer and toilet paper are fully stocked. Most people have masks and public venues are socially distancing, except where young people gather and the protests.

                      And yet, we are back to over 1000 deaths per day already, right now, even with the better care.

                      There is 100% teachers, principals and children will die when schools open. They are dying now. It just is more about how much risk there is and we don’t know yet because we are having deaths with only a fraction of kids in schools.

                      The places where the principals died, the schools won’t be opening.

                      The USA will be a researcher’s dream at the end of this and I do hope they collect all of the data masked states and non-masked states, schools opened and schools closed states, etc.

                      But the teacher doing summer school who died was in a class where they were wearing masks and using hand sanitizer and where the seats were spaced apart, so air conditioning remains on the table.

                    3. Deb,

                      Every animal with a repiratory system may spread it. You just have to learn how to make it diificult to spread from you by eating a no cholesterol low fat starch-based plant nutrition favoring endothelial nitric oxide production, our natural and evolutionary endogenous antiviral agent, and also by breathing through the nose for exposing your epithelium to nasal nitric oxide.

            3. mrpinkerton, in order to speedup recovery, there are several nutrtiional adjustments that you can do depending on your cholesterol and nitric oxide status and your ability to eat.

              First of all, of course, abolishing dietary cholesterol from your diet.

              Secondly, you want to inhibit the formation of cholesterol crystals that results from the afflux of blood cholesterol into the tissue consecutively to the viral infection and the response of the innate immune system and which results in SIRS-like reactions. For that you want to activate SIRT6 processes:

              SIRT6 inhibits cholesterol crystal-induced vascular endothelial dysfunction via Nrf2 activation
              https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31759967/

              In order to activate SIRT6, you need a plant food that is rich in cyanidin, that is: red berries.

              Natural polyphenols as sirtuin 6 modulators
              https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-22388-5

              Then, in order to prevent SARS-like reaction, you want enough endothelial nitric oxide within your blood circulation. In order to promote endothelial nitric oxide formation through nutrition, you can eat nitrate rich vegetables such as dark green leafy vegetables, possibly with a tiny bit of balsamic vinegar which also enhances the chemical processes leading to endothelial nitric oxide production.

              Red berries and nitrate rich vegetables will complement a starch-based plant nutrition which is the way we genetically evolved to eat since a long time now as human beings.

          3. Ab – Dr. Greger invented and developed this site. And he chose to write books on whatever topics are of interest to him. This is his developed work over many years now. Given that this is what he chose to develop and work on I think he’s entitled to produce and dispense whatever he damned well feels like. If it’s not to your liking or your apparently very discriminating tastes, why don’t you start your own site and you can cater your topics to yourself.
            The breadth and depth of your sense of entitlement for critique is astounding I must admit!!

            1. Ruth, I didn’t know I was on the personal blog of Dr Greger, all my apologies. I thought I was on a website of public interest about nutrition science.

              I notice that Dr Greger, not only does not inform about nutrition science pertaining to COVID-19 (cholesterol and viral infection) but moreover that he was giving very dangerous advices to patients actually infected by the disease, like wearing a source control mask.

              https://nutritionfacts.org/video/what-to-do-if-you-come-down-with-covid-19/

              Source control masks create a microcosm in which patients breathe, generating a viral storm at each breath within the mask, and particularly when patients cough and hyperventilate, they reabsorb thousands of viral particles into the lungs, disseminating the virus within their body and helping it to propagate furthermore into sane parts of the lungs.

              To wear a source control mask for patients increases the viral load of respiratory viruses putting patients ar risks of severe complications by helping the viral infection.

              It is a very dangerous advice that is also given by most health authorities and governments.

        2. ab

          Which ‘sane and responsible critics’ are those? The only one person I am aware of who would fit that description is Reality Bites and even some of his criticisms seem less than responsible at times. As for the other critics, most of them appear to be of the tinfoil hat variety.

          Let’s also consider your continued criticisms, All they seem to consist of is repeated assertions that Dr Greger and mainstream scientists/health authorities have got it wrong. Apparently, the only person who has got it right is you.

          It would be nice if you provided supporting evidence for your claims. Or are we just supposed to take your word for it?

          1. I find highly suspicious that there is not a single video amongst the thousands of videos on this website talking about the well-known and scientifically documented relation between cholesterol and viral infection.

            Dozens of scientific studies show that a cholesterol-rich environment increases viral infection including for SARS-CoV and the late SARS-CoV-2. And that dietary cholesterol is uptaken by the cells, creating saturation, crystallisation and systemic inflammation in people with already high levels of cholesterol, like people with COVID-19 risks factors.

            That mainstream medical authorities ignore the scientific litterature, I am used to, but that no mention of this critical scientific information is given by Dr Greger in his COVID-19 serie is highly suspicious to me.

            Governements, mainstream medical authorities and even plant-based doctors like Dr Greger are either voiountarily or involuntarily (through mere ignorance) hiding and omitting the science to the public.

            As said Dr Neal Barnard: “Ignorance of nutrition is no longer defensible”

            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31260029/

              1. Once again you seem to fail to look by yourself into pubmed or other scientific websites where all the data is documented. It is not that the evidences do not exist, it is that medical authorities ignore them or do not want or try to find them.

                1. If you can’t be bothered to provide any evidence to support your beliefs, there’s absolutely no reason why anyone else should run around trying to find evidence to justify your beliefs for you. I am sure that Dre G and the scientific/medical community have better things to do with their time. I know that I do.

                  Assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

                  1. What prevents people to look at the link between cholesterol and viral infections is the vaccine brainwashing dogma that has endoctrinated most doctors, media and governments since a long time, which goes in pair with the denial of the role of nutrition in public health and disease.

                    Even many plant-based doctors have been so brainwashed that they seem to be blind to the thematic.

                    Viruses infections are ecosystemic problems that are mediated by how a population is nourishing itself. It is not a matter of individual nutrition but of global nutrition within a population.

    3. Reality bites,

      I don’t know about you, but I plan on sharing this video with my state and federal reps, highlighting the salient points, and asking for reforms as to how we raise our farm animals.

      The more the more effective? (Rather than merrier, because this topic is pretty grim).

      1. Dr. J.,

        Yes, if this voice is never heard, things will never change.

        The concept of silencing one of less than a handful of people speaking the message to the public is not something I would even want to consider.

        If Dr. Greger simply mobilized the vegan and WFPB audience, that alone could change the future.

      2. Politicians will be happy that you inform them with Dr Greger’s video as nowadays they are all concerned about reforming the way we raise farm animals and about the well-being of animals, by fear of public opinion which is more sensitive to this question.

        However no one actually questions the fundamental question of killing and eating those animals, which, from a nutritional and scientific standpoint, matters the most concerning viral infections.

        And for the same reason of the fear of public opinion, politicians are not willing to deal with it, as to state that eating animal foods should not be eaten might expose them to the anger of the agroindustry, of medical authorities and of a whole part of the population who are all very hooked into meat and animal foods, both physiologically and psychologically.

    4. Reality Bites – Interestingly, I found this information quite useful. As well as interesting.
      Your shouting and bullying doesn’t change that. Perhaps a long walk would help you to feel better, eh?

  7. Now that was depressing. Always thought I would see a bright flash and in that instant know I was nuked.

    But…. to die from a chicken borne disease is just chicken $%#@.

  8. So the simplest solution is to quit eating animals. I rarely eat meat and I’m not a vegetarian but if the world decided to quit selling meat I’d have zero problem with it. The world would go on and with less problems. Very simple solution but greed will always overlook it.

    1. Kimberly Sadbery,

      I have been a vegetarian for almost 50 years: I have not eaten meat because of sustainability and environmental reasons. (It takes about 1/5 the amount of resources to support a vegetarian eater and about 1/10 to support a vegan compared to a meat eater. And raising animals degrades the environment.) Everybody who knows me knows this. And nobody that I know of has changed their eating habits in response.

      And I now eat whole plant foods, avoiding animal products and processed foods. For health reasons. But I’ve also learned about the contribution of animal agriculture untrue to global warming (which I call climate catastrophe), the cruelty for both the animals and the workers, to the development of antibiotic resistance, and to major pandemics.

      So, no, I don’t think it’s simpler. It is for me, and maybe for you. But not for the vast majority of the population. And I don’t understand why not.

  9. Is not the number of deaths in the US just a testament to how incredibly unhealthy the US population is? NOWHERE in the news, from officials, politicians, or any public healthcare entity are they recommending eating well, getting exercise, fresh air, sunshine and doing everything we can on improving our immune systems. Just wash your hands, wear your mask, stay indoors, be afraid. A strong immune system can combat just about anything, including this measly flu virus.

    1. JB,

      You are right that the fact that we have 20% of people who died are under age 65, which shows that we have more comorbidities.

      But the FDA has come against all kinds of people for acting like anything, including nutrition, will prevent or cure COVID-19.

      You can tell people that eating better can lessen the comorbidities, but that is as far as it goes.

      1. According to the US CDC

        ‘Good nutrition is essential in keeping current and future generations of Americans healthy across the lifespan.’
        https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/about-nutrition/index.html

        But good nutrition (like bad nutrition) likely takes years to have a significant impact. it’s unlikely to be a short term solution. If there is any evidence that it would be, I am sure that Dr G would have mentioned it.

        1. Mr Fumblefingers: “But good nutrition (like bad nutrition) likely takes years to have a significant impact. it’s unlikely to be a short term solution.”

          Sorry to say, but yet another non sense.

          Good nutrition in one meal onyl can differentiate between life or death of numerous patients during the next hours.

          1. Ab

            And if anyone made that claim about Covid, they would have their video taken down by the FDA and be put on the list of doctors who have been warned.

            There are no nutritional studies specifically for Covid and you can’t make claims without studies.

            It is the law.

              1. ab,

                Scientists can present the logic to journals.

                But the FDA has made it clear exactly what they will allow and what they won’t.

                For instance, I could look at the study where nasal saline irrigation lowered the risk and severity of the flu virus and Dr. Greger was asked if he thought it was worth trying and he said that it seemed worth trying, but the WHO and the CDC and the FDA will trample on anyone who makes claims about it with COVID because it has not been put to the test for covid specifically.

                1. Deb, I’m not talking of grandmum or Greger’s remedies.

                  I’m talking about real science concerning the evolutionary biological pathways that nature are built within our body.

                  That is, the response of the innate immune system to viral infections, whether it is SARS-CoV-2, SARS-CoV, flu, or whatever past, present or future viruses.

          2. ab

            ‘Good nutrition in one meal onyl can differentiate between life or death of numerous patients during the next hours.’

            Where is the proof of that claim? It would be nice if it were true but where is the evidence that it is?

            1. Here the proof that you ask for, straight from Dr Greger’s mouth in the movie “What The Health”:

              “When we eat these kind of dead meat bacteria toxins, within minutes, we get this burst of inflammation within your system such that you basically paralyze your arteries. So, you get this stiffening of the arteries, their inability to relax normally in half. It’s not like decades down the road, eating unhealthy, there’ll be some damage, no. We’re talking damage right then and there within minutes of going into our mouth.”

              https://youtu.be/X1QDkpUPiI8?t=858

              Not only that but in times of viral infection, the moment you ingest cholesterol rich foods, all that cholesterol ends up into the blood stream and counteracts the natural response of the innate immune system which is to diminish endogenous cholesterol production, resulting in an afflux of cholesterol from the blood stream within the cells. This is a very dangerous situation for people with already high tissular cholesterol levels like people with COVID-19 risks factors, as cholesterol then saturates, crystallizes and creates systemic inflammation as a result.

              1. ab,

                By law, you can’t claim anything about a novel coronavirus during a pandemic.

                The researchers are trying to build the evidence so that they can test statins and that hasn’t happened yet. Nobody has tested nutrition.

                Dr. Greger can’t do anything except show what he has already shown about reversing the comorbidities.

                I can use the example of PEMF. It generally makes it harder for viruses to replicate, but Dr. Pawluk had to take those statements down when he added the word COVID-19 and he was put on a list of people the FDA has warned.

                1. Statins ? Are those researchers reading the science ? Don’t they know that statins already diminish the efficacy of flu vaccines ? So why they would use statins during a viral infection ? It seems like a dangerous idea based on blind action. What does the FDA ?

                  Why would law prevent one to state what nature has built during millions of years of evolution ? Who are those authorities and are they more intelligent than millions of years of careful crafting of the innate immune system by nature itself ? Certainly not.

                  So, Dr Greger promotes healthy nutrition for chronic diseases but not for viral infections ? There, only vaccines would work according to him ?

                  1. ab,

                    Dr Greger has said that people should eat a healthy diet and he promotes plant-based to lower the comorbidities and lowering the comorbidities should improve things for people with COVID-19, but he talked about a couple where one had cancer and one didn’t and it was the one with the healthy immune system who died, not the cancer patient. Pretty sure he said died. Or hospitalized with a severe case.

                    People with strong immune systems don’t always do better for every type of virus and they are still learning about this one.

                    Dr Greger, because he has a public health background, and knows that there have been pandemics where the youngest and healthiest people died the most. His experience causes him to be more careful about what he says and how he says it.

                    The CDC and WHO and FDA agree with him, so you might just be frustrated with the public health side of his career and how they approach information.

                    1. Deb,

                      Cancer patients often have a stronger immune response than non cancer patients, as tumors are anarchic bacteria colonies growing int our body.

                      That may be why the one who had cancer survived and the one who were so-called “healthy” died.

                      Everyone knows that there has been and that there will be pandemics. No need to be a doctor to understand that.

              2. ab

                That doesn’t prove that one meal will make a life or death difference.

                Further, your beliefs about the role of cholesterol in viral infections appears to be overly simplistic. It’s a complex subject and ‘dietary cholesterol may exert protective or detrimental effects on risk, progression, and treatment of different infectious and autoimmune diseases,’
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6024721/

                I think this bloke makes a much better case here than you do
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7238752/

                Although, since I am currently experiencing an unpleasant bout of shingles, it is clear in my case at least that a zero dietary cholesterol, high fibre plant diet does not guarantee immunity against viral disease outbreaks.

                1. Sorry to hear you are feeling poorly Fumbles. Having struggled through 2 bouts of shingles myself, I can attest to how thoroughly miserable a person can feel.

                  I cold brewed some green tea by the pitcher last Christmas during my last attack and drank 2 or 3 glasses per day. Very refreshing. Get well soon.

                  And wherever Lonie may be, I hope he’s doing fine too.

                  1. Thank you Barb. I feel surprisingly OK except for the pain which is irritating but more or less tolerable. No desire for painkillers anyway. The biggest problem is lack mof sleep since the pain usually keeps me awake or wakes me up when I do eventually drift off.

                    Yes, I’m keeping my fingers crossed for Lonie too.

                2. Mr Fumblefingers,

                  you do not seem to really know what you are saying when you are talking of positive effects of dietary cholesterol, and you can show me all the loose interpretations or fake studies saying that meat and animal products are good for health, but they won’t impress me.

                  Concerning shingles, consider phototherapy and photobiomodulation in near-infrared with for example far-infrared 830nm or near-infrared 650nm LED lamps for relieving pain:

                  The Effects of 830 nm Light-Emitting Diode Therapy on Acute Herpes Zoster Ophthalmicus: A Pilot Study
                  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662908/

                  Role of low-level laser therapy in post-herpetic neuralgia: a pilot study
                  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32006261/

                  Some cheap LED panels or lamps with the correct therapeutic frequencies might be found on Alibaba.

                  Do not abuse phototherapy: short sessions of 30 secondes to three minutes at the correct intensity might be sufficient.

                  https://www.chiroeco.com/low-level-laser-treatment-for-shingles/

                  1. Thank you ab.

                    It’s not really possible to buy anything from AliBaba or AliExpress now because the Philippines postal service closed down months ago. However, i have a couple of 660 nm torches on order from a supplier which uses a local courier service for delivery.

                    Thanks again for the advice/links.

                  1. Thank you ab. I eat a completely vegetarian diet so I have zero dietary cholesterol.

                    I am also taking lysine which reputedly inhibits viral replication.

                3. Now that I recall to have read that you were in the Philipines, you can also expose yourself to sunrise and sunset. You can use a 5 minutes sunbath when the sunlight is reddish-orange in the morning and in the evening, instead of LED panels, that is, just after and before the night. That in addition to the nutritional adjustments above.

  10. I rarely eat animal products anymore but I’m curious how the 1918 crossed over to humans if in those days animal husbandry was more humane, less intensified and crowded? Maybe it was overcrowded even then? Just curious.

    1. I know that they believe that the trenches in WW1 are where it would have mutated to become as virulent as it was.

      I have read a few things about it, but some people believe that it was birds to humans to pigs in the fall of 1918. They said that both pigs and humans had a big outbreak that same winter.

      They said though that the issue hasn’t been resolved.

    2. That particular flu may have been caused by a wild bird flu not from meat production or factory farms (although later there seemed to be a connection with the swine flu). Here are two articles that help review the complex history of how the 1918 Flu may have started;
      https://www.nature.com/news/study-revives-bird-origin-for-1918-flu-pandemic-1.
      Study revives bird origin for 1918 flu pandemic
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2720273/ The Origin and Virulence of the 1918 “Spanish” Influenza Virus1
      I hope that helps address your curiousity!

  11. Can you advise more details about how you came to the death rate as explained in this video? Based on total cases with an outcome compared to total deaths, the death rate is much higher than 1%, and I’d like to better understand the math here.

    1. Rowen, The standard mathematical definition of the death rate can be found at this link:

      https://www.britannica.com/science/case-fatality-rate

      But the death rate keeps changing as more data is collected. And even more complications arise because of the inaccuracies in testing and in determining the true cause of death of each person. And, of course, all of this has become highly politicized so no numbers can really be trusted!

      In my opinion, the best mathematical model for projecting the course of Covid-19 is the one developed by the German scientist, Karl Friston. The articles at the link below are well worth reading:

      https://www.fil.ion.ucl.ac.uk/spm/covid-19/

  12. I respect and greatly value this site and its work, but this piece is uncharacteristically poorly considered and executed. You say, “Imagine if it were ten times as bad as 2% with 1 in 15 dying. Or twenty-five times as bad, killing 1 in 6 of us” and threatens “civilization itself.” There will probably continue to be pandemics, but you have no idea what the rate of death will be, and this sort of fear-inducing language does not help anyone. It is not meaningful information. It is rank, baseless speculation. The solution you offer is that the poultry industry needs to attend to the health of its animals, even if it means higher costs. I doubt that few if any of your readers are in positions of authority in the poultry industry to take action on these recommendations. So, why put these hypothetical, unlikely death rates to your readers? You seem to be piling on to the many fears, rationale and irrational, people in this country, already possess. Why? Do care at all about the mental and emotional health of your viewers, particularly those who may not be adept at sorting hyperbole from fact and are already living in fear? I think you do care, which makes this sort of piece surprising and disappointing.

    1. D Miller,

      He is mobilizing the public to take steps to try to change very wealthy, irresponsible industries.

      The fact that we had this pandemic and others when we could already stop them, is a topic that is worth exploring.

      As far as changing the poultry industry, Dr. Greger’s audience is comprised of doctors, vegans, activists for the environment, and many people who could be mobilized to change things and industries ONLY change when the public becomes aware enough to begin to put some pressure on them.

      Anybody can send a message to their politicians or start a petition or give money to a group like Dr. Barnards.

      Without the public finding this information out, nothing will change.

      This audience does have power. It just needs to care about something enough to take action.

      I would also say that the tide is slowly changing and it is people like Dr. Greger and Dr. Barnard who are succeeding. More people are aware of the health and environmental impact of the animal industries.

      The environmental impact is already so terrifying that nobody should ever mention the environment at all ever about anything.

      That is one logic.

      Or we mention it and politicians feel pressured to change things.

    2. D Miller,

      And the example I gave about how I would feel so much more comforted if nobody ever mentioned the environment ever again is the truth.

      Much less stress to never hear it.

      But, because I have heard it, I want to hear more because something has to change.

      1. Honestly, feeling that there is something that could be done is empowering to me.

        The rest of the media doesn’t give any potential solution at all.

        Dr. Greger already gave me reasons for hope for the future.

        It wouldn’t be hard to prevent it.

        It is just a learned helplessness about politics.

        But more people are trying meat-substitutes and dairy-substitutes than ever before and it is affecting the markets.

        Plus, the work doctors like Dr. Greger and Dr. Barnard are doing with PCRM have caused a dramatic drop in animals being used in labs and in colleges and farms are closing. They are doing so much on the frontlines and would just like there to be an informed public to exist so that the politicians and food companies take it seriously.

        If the WFPB audience doesn’t care about pandemics and the environmental factors, then nobody will. I hope anyone in this audience cares.

        I do care.

        1. Dr. Greger,

          I pause and thank you because I do know how hard you and your colleagues work to fight against big business, big pharma, big medicine, big political interests, etc.

          When I listened to Dr. Barnard read the list of everything that was accomplished just last year alone, I know that you are all unsung heroes.

          When I look at the internet, the reality is likely that you will all remain unsung.

          I am amazed at how effective you few doctors have really been.

          And, I have also been amazed at how ineffective you have been, but I look at us and we are a selfish people and want the benefits and don’t want to help.

          Sorry about that.

          Same thing for Bill Gates. I want him to succeed at getting rid of polio and malaria.

          No matter if the whole world hates him for trying.

    3. D Miller

      You seem to be advocating that people stick their heads in the sand and keep them there.

      Effective planning is dependent upon an assessment of risk including identifying the worst case scenario.

      I personally don’t think that Greger’s policy of treating his viewers as responsible, intelligent adults is a bad thing.

      1. Mr Fumblefingers: “You seem to be advocating that people stick their heads in the sand and keep them there.”

        This is exactly what Dr Greger seems to do in this video series by promoting vaccines for COVID-19 and not digging into the crucial role of cholesterol metabolism and thus of nutrition into the mechanisms of viral infections, amongst other nutritional aspects not at all evoked into this COVID-19 serie.

        To not talk of what matters the most is of no help in a world that is actually denying the role of nutrition in health and disease while actually putting all its faith in artificial means like vaccines, pills and so on, which at best are not effective and at worst very poisonous for health.

        1. But where is your evidence for those beliefs ab?

          Dr Greger’s assessment is based on the current scientific evidence and he cites the studies/papers that support it. You on the other hand just give us your opinion.

  13. Now if you could just convince Dr. Popper that this one is real… thanks for all you do. You are my go to for all things nutrition!

      1. William,

        She is in a state where the hospitals were empty and the doctors were bored. The doctors who were in the Northeast at the time didn’t share her viewpoint.

        The doctors in Texas and California and Arizona and Florida also don’t share her viewpoint.

        There are plenty of armchair scientists and mathematicians who do agree with her.

        The whole point is that we succeeded for those months in flattening the curve, so we didn’t see the whole USA go the same way as the Northeast. Some states are going in that direction now.

      2. William,

        I have listened to her stories and so many of them are pathetically selfish people who don’t want to be inconvenienced during a pandemic.

        I contrast her thoughts where one of them was that people need to be able to get their hair cuts and nails done as if that would be hardship to not have to the videos I watched in NYC with the doctors and nurses bursting into tears at the real conditions of COVID.

        She is going to write a one-sided, COVID-19 was nothing but the flu.

        Even watch ONE of the NY videos of medical people breaking down after 1 day.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdqMd-070hs

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8USY8EOU8k

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx1XCAeePWA&t=11s

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilQDwaS8-6c

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uk8WOAGFdE

        I wonder how many medical people die from the flu every year? Because medical people did die from this.

        She is one of the ones who has pushed hard to try to get people feeling offended that the doctors want them tested if they are in the hospitals.

        1. If she is going to write a COVID book of stories, it should at least not be such petty stories.

          Oh no, the hospital where I gave birth which is in a part of the country where COVID hospitalizations are through the roof wanted me and my baby to get tested, but I refused and now they have threatened to delay me being able to take my baby home, unless we are tested.

          Versus dozens of doctors and nurses bursting into tears during interviews about COVID-19.

  14. WOW.

    Just – WOW.

    Thank you, Dr. Greger.

    Here I am, focusing on the current pandemic – the Big One – eyes on the ground in front of me, moving forward steadfastly, step by cautious step.

    And here is Dr. Greger, focusing on the next pandemic – the Bigger One – eyes carefully scanning the horizon for storm clouds.

    Hey – let’s get through the Big One, first, Dr. Greger!

    For the Bigger One – Dr. Greger wants us thinkin’ – OK – let’s think – what might one do:

    (1) As far as the issue of animal agriculture is concerned, we each do as we can. People within my sphere – myself included – are increasingly heading toward a Whole Foods Plant Based diet. Veggies, fruits, legumes, unrefined whole grains, nuts, avocados, B12. More. Low or no salt, sugar and fat. No fried foods, no eggs, no dairy. It’s pretty simple. Not everyone, of course – but the word is definitely out there. In my sphere, people heading in that direction are initially more motivated by health than by ethics or environmental or esthetic concerns – such concerns do come later.

    Effective motivation: when people are finally faced with a future lifetime on statins – or when they are told they are now pre-diabetic – or when they notice their PSA a-rising – some – not all, but some – finally ask for the dietary guidance that they have been so dismissive toward in the past – and finally actually follow guidance, see their weight and cholesterol and triglycerides and serum glucose and PSAs plummet – most of which they had previously insisted was hereditary and inevitable – all together, now! – and then request that their surprised physician reduce and/or discontinue their medications – initially encountering physician resistance, then their physician saying things like: “I have never seen anything like it” – hey, I have – all the time. Such people typically become evangelists, themselves. It’s like planting weeds in a methodically well-tended garden and watching those weeds spread. But people rarely do this prior to being confronted with health issues – I wish I could corral them earlier, but I have not been successful in doing so. Still – every person that I can deflect from the interventional cardiologist, from the diabetes educator or from the urologist, I consider a small but real victory for humankind.

    In my experience, youth is typically moved to vegetarianism or to veganism by environmental or ethical or esthetic issues – not by health issues. I see this most commonly in the context of junk-food vegetarians (potato chips are vegan!) who have gotten themselves into health trouble and who act as a negative example for those around them. They then switch back to a standard American diet and their health greatly improves – which tells you just how unhealthy a junk-food vegetarian diet can be.

    (2) Vote. Listen to people, do not tell them – wait for when the opportunity is right, ask them what they are going to do to fix whatever they are complaining about, and then help them – step by step – learn how to vote.

    (3) Consider reading Dr. Greger’s new book – “How to Survive a Pandemic” – when it comes out. If it is good – and I expect that it will be, considering the source – consider having a hard copy on hand. One lesson of this pandemic is that such tools can become very valuable – which is to say, unobtainable – in the midst of a pandemic.

    Budget $100-$500 dollars – or whatever you feel appropriate – towards his storage recommendations. Buy and STORE CAREFULLY – a STORAGE STRATEGY is key. I might quibble with details – hey, I advocate Spirytus over Wyborowa – but Dr. Greger has been at this quite a while, has a tremendous depth and breadth of knowledge, and generally shows pretty sound judgement. I am interested as to whether or not Dr. Greger will go at all survivalist – that crew always seems a bit – ahem – unusual – after all, we have plenty of water and food and heat and electricity, don’t we? No need to go off grid. But – but you know – what if we didn’t have all those things? I will wait patiently to learn what Dr. Greger has to say. Or if he tactfully bypasses the matter entirely.

    (4) NETWORK. Network with family and old friends. Locally to the extent possible.

    This time, nothing was prearranged. Next time our crew may be much more organized.

    So – just how does Networking work? In our case:

    Initial inquiries are typically a telephone call, not an email – initiated or received – always beginning with the very casually stated question: “Hey, what do you think about this coronavirus thing?” If dismissive, we would initially try to convince – but as we gained experience, we learned not to even try to convince – just switch over to talking about the weather – even with close blood relatives, difficult as that may seem – best to move on to someone who might take such things seriously. It comes down to triage: time is of the essence and you can only help those whom you can help. If the person expresses concern – ah, we may have a live one. If they are concerned enough to do something – you lay out what needs to be done. And you get their input, as well.

    Do that a few times, and you realize – without even trying – you have the beginnings of a Network.

    Each of our crew – and this is important – is asked how many people he will take responsibility for. Initially – self. What about the wife? – well, yes, of course. What about the grown kids. Well, yeah. What about Mom and the Spinsters? Yes. What about extended family? Hey I can only do so much! What about friends, neighbors and co-workers? No way!

    And so it goes.

    Next question you are asked is “how many respirators and masks – etc., etc., etc. – will I need to buy?”

    Reply: “Well – what do you think?”

    We each have our guestimate – it is different for the healthcare worker than for the solitary introvert sheltering in place. I am interested in what Dr. Greger will come up with in his book: I wonder how far off his numbers are from ours.

    Rule of thumb: buy twice as much of everything as you calculate you will need.

    This is no time to economize. Some buy, some don’t – it’s a free country. You can say you won’t help out other relatives, or friends, or colleagues or neighbors – but when they come a-callin’, you will. You will if you are a friend of mine. Softee! If you don’t have it, you will call on others in the Network and ask for help – and they will help, but you are taking from their limited supplies. And when you visit your Physician and you are wearing better PPE that he has – you will find yourself offering – this is just the way that human beings are wired. You won’t be able to help it.

    I continue to see this play out in real time – this week, last week, the week before.

    People got the word out in late January -> Networking began. By early February, people were largely stocked up – later everyone wishing that they had gotten more back when it was still available. The following is important: not one of the crew wished he had bought less. By early February, material was already being sent across the country – things that were unavailable in one part of the country were still available elsewhere – the Network had now gone from talk to action – lots of materials crossing in the mail.

    Interestingly, we could not quickly mail out a care package containing respirators and masks and brown paper lunch bags and hand sanitizer and such to those in our circle. The US mail – and UPS – consider ethanol-based hand sanitizer to be hazardous cargo (flammable), and you have to send it separately via surface mail. Who knew? As a result, mailing costs actually ended up being as great or greater than goods costs. Factor that in.

    Far better to have all these things available in place before things go scarce locally so you do not waste money – and time – in transportation.

    consider: what if transportation is not then available at all?

    Networking brings in unanticipated actionable information. People from different walks of life each have some piece of the puzzle to contribute: overseas contacts, road warriors, food industry, health care – the more pieces of the puzzle, the earlier you put the puzzle together – the sooner you can act.

    Lots of: “Vivamus – you need to get this before it is gone! Right now!”

    “I’m on it!”

    And they were right. And it was gone.

    But-cha know – if people read Dr. Greger’s book and are inspired to do a bunch of this stuff years ahead of time – they are going to have a lot fewer of these tense moments.

    I look forward to learning what Dr. Greger has to say.

    (5) STOCKING UP: For the next one, not this one – stock up when materials become available through normal channels. Not now – now there is a bunch of overpriced / inferior / counterfeit material out there You stock up between crises, not during one.

    A few hundred bucks then can mean confidence – and perhaps even lives – at a later time.

    Our crew is using and handing out PPE, some of recent manufacture (as recent as 1/2020, purchased late 1/2020 / early 2/2020) and some of which was purchased as far back as 2003 – and all sorts of dates in between – stored in a closet, not in a storage bin, garage, basement or attic. Normal human temperatures and humidity – nothing fancy. Many of these materials are from an era before we even called it PPE – certainly from an era prior to the introduction of expiration dates/forced turnover. 17 year old elastic bands remain in excellent condition – nothing yellowed – we can tell no difference in appearance or function between old stock and new stock. We always inform ahead of time – no one has turned down old stock. No one using old stock has been able to tell any difference between old stock and new stock. No one using old stock has shown symptoms or tested positive for Coronavirus.

    N95s – between us, we have quite a number of different brands, an accidental godsend. I wish I could tell you that we planned it that way, but people just got whatever they could get their hands on locally – different stores, different states – back before the counterfeiting began. You see – every brand fits differently and every face is different. Individuals can definitely use some brands but not others. So they get sent around, depending on what various people need – not traded, not sold – sent. Another unanticipated strength of the Network.

    Inadvertent lesson of this pandemic – when preparing for the next one, buy as many brands of n95s in as many sizes as you can. For example – not ten boxes of one 3M model, but one box of ten different models

    Ideally, n95s should be professionally fitted with an experienced fitter using appropriate equipment. In an emergency – people do what they can. Beards must be shaved. If you have a valved n95 and it fogs your glasses/goggles despite adjusting the nosepiece, that is leakage – it doesn’t fit. Try again or try another.

    If you are preparing for the Bigger One – you may find it more than worthwhile to be formally fitted prior to buying respirators for you own use.

    In addition to n95s, you will find that surgical masks (two behind-the-head ties – 0.1 micron) and procedural masks (ear loops – 0.6 microns) are greatly appreciated. If you are using valved n95s, you may want to have a procedural mask to place over it – for obvious reasons.

    Medications. Sanitizers, Spiritus. Food. Paper products – including lotsa brown paper lunch bags. A zillion supplies.

    I think that the two rolls of toilet paper that we put in the care packages at one point were more appreciated by people than the respirators, masks and hand sanitizer. Shook our heads smiling – who would have ever guessed?

    (6) Understand Aerosolization.

    Aerosolization is key to understanding the Coronavirus Pandemic.

    It’s as simple as that.

    (7) Strongly consider buying Dr. Greger’s new book when it becomes available: “How to Survive a Pandemic.” Debate the details, but consider doing what he says when he says to do it.

    When to stock up?

    Years ahead of time might be just about right.

    Looking forward to what every new day might bring –

    Vivamus

  15. “The overwhelming majority of human beings remain apathetically oblivious to the plight of countless nonhuman animals enslaved in “livestock” conditions around the world and in general, the whole of our species expresses no viable concern for the life that we take from them through said exploitation. What most humans fail to realize is that by the continuance in the slaughter of their children, we condemn our own. The statements, “violence begets violence” and “all life is connected” are not simple euphemisms to be lightly ignored or cast aside without fully understanding the fundamental truths that they convey. The human consumption of nonhuman animal-based products will ultimately lead to the end of humanity.”

    1. ahimsa42,

      Your words are elegant and filled with wisdom.

      “…the whole of our species expresses no viable concern for the life that we take from them through said exploitation.”

      There is a remnant who cares.

      And that remnant is powerful through caring.

      Nothing in the world changes without people first caring.

    1. Chuck R, totally agree. Dr. Vernon Coleman is one of the few sane ones who is going through this with his eyes open, trying to open everyone else’s eyes to what’s going on.

      1. What I will point out is that in the USA, young people are beginning to die more.

        I will use Florida as an example.

        As of June 1, there had been 52 deaths among people aged 25- 44 total for the first five months of this pandemic. That number has more than doubled — 106 deaths now among that age group in about a month. That figure is from a half a month ago, but Texas reported a similar situation.

        1. And, Liisa, I post that so that you can know that you made the right decision keeping your young person from going away to college this semester.

          The deaths in young people this month is more than the deaths in young people from the whole pandemic put together.

          That would cause me to pause about sending young people to school.

      1. I do not know about those youtube channels, but I have to point out that even Nobel Prize Montagnier who discovered HIV doesn’t believe in vaccines.

        https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2012/05/27/nobel-laureate-joins-anti-vaccination-crowd-at-autism-one/#fbe6025c5357

        Medical authorities still think that HIV comes from some african people eating monkeys, when clearly, HIV was discovered after the discovery of BIV (Bovine immunodeficiency virus) which is likely to be the ancestor of HIV. AIDS is more likely to be a zoonose from the cattle industry than from some people eating a monkey into the african bush.

        1. Of course, it is more pleasant for the agroindustry and governments to claim that HIV comes from a monkey in the african bush or that COVID-19 comes from a wild animal in an oriental wet market than to tell to the public that those viruses more probably come from the meat industry.

          This is where the real conspiracy is about to my view: the voluntary dismissing of facts and of actual science for unfounded hypothesis that are used as a smoke mirror in order to avoid to look at the real problem of industry farming and omnivore nutrition in a world of billions of inhabitants.

        2. Just imagine the impact it would have if the medical authorities acknowledged publically that AIDS is a zoonose from the cattle industry…

          I think it would make people ponder a little bit more before eating their steak, or even not ponder, but immediately change their nutritional behavior for a significant part of the population.

          But I’m sure that some medical authorities and other industry-affiliated scientists and governmental experts would come afterwords for downplaying the news, by saying that it is only a very rare event and thus that the risk is not significant for the main population and that what matters the most is sexual protection and prevention, not dietary changes.

          1. Of course, some uneducated people might then believe that by eating plant nutrition they would be protected against HIV infection, but that is not the case as the virus is actually circulating and sexually transmissible within the human population.

            But still, eating an healthy no cholesterol low fat plant nutrition might downplay some of the AIDS pathogenesis, as indicated by in vivo animal experimentations showing that high cholesterol, high fat diets actually greatly reduces the lifespan of macaques infected with the simian immunodeficiency virus.

            A diet high in saturated fat and cholesterol accelerates simian immunodeficiency virus disease progression
            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17955439/

              1. It is rather funny how the mask has become the new condom in this year 2020, as a public health recommendation against viral infections and their consequences.

                Some people just don’t want to wear masks or to wear condoms, putting them at high risk of infection, but still, medical autorities don’t correctly inform them about what they can do to limit the viral load and the pathogenesis of infection by eating a healthy plant nutrition.

                AIDS and COVID-19 would probably disappear over time and not even appear as pandemics in the first place if the whole world society was eating rightfully.

        3. For AIDS, BIV might be an ancestor of HIV or a co-occurence of a shared ancestor.

          As for COVID-19, the SARS-CoV-2 clade that triggered the beginning of the epidemy in China is not the one that started the epidemy in Europe, particularly in France, as documented by the Pasteur Institute:

          Introductions and early spread of SARS-CoV-2 in France
          https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.059576v1?ct=

          The two clades share a common ancestor that does not necessarily come from China, contrary to what the mainstream science is claiming since several months now without any proof whatsoever, including in this COVID-19 serie.

          1. “Nevertheless, identification of clade G variants subsequently circulating in the country, with the earliest from a patient who neither travelled to risk areas nor had contact with travellers, suggests that SARS-CoV-2 might have been present before the first recorded local cases.”

            Introductions and early spread of SARS-CoV-2 in France, 24 January to 23 March 2020
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7346363/

            1. Thank you ab.

              Dr G has done a number of videos in the past on BLV in humans. However, BLV is not BIV and my understanding is that HIV is most similar genetically to the various SIVs rather than to BIV.

              1. Mr Fumblefingers, one is talking of viruses. Whatever the viruses are they can all be passed on you when you eat animal foods.

                There are many viruses that are not even documented, with no official names that pass on you and which silently circulate into your veins.

                So IV from animals also pass on human beings who eat animals or drink their milk. That is a plain and simple fact.

                You then identify viruses according to the symptoms or diseases they create, but many of them do not give diseases, so you just are not aware of them, and they silently circulate into the population, until they mutate and become potentially very deadly, like HIV, SARS-CoV and others.

                So it has no use to compare orange, apples and bananas, or BIV, HIV, SIV or SARS-CoV. They are all viruses that create some particular diseases and symptoms that depend on their host context.

                The host context makes the disease and shapes the viruses.

  16. I’m afraid this video may be interpreted as downplaying this pandemic .. and may, if the right person hears this, feed into the “COVID-19 is a hoax” belief.

  17. Chuck,

    No hate toward you.

    But I was in a state where there are nursing homes with over 30% death rates and where, at the same time, 20% of the deaths were of people under the age of 65, particularly Black, Hispanic and Latino males. Though the people that I know who died were white young people and white middle-aged people and 1 white 72-year-old who was seriously vibrant.

    No other parts of the USA will go through what the Northeast went through. We have already gotten more PPE, more handle on how to treat it and we have some drugs to use and we have been succeeding with convalescent plasma.

    If the whole country had been where they are right now with no PPE, and they weren’t set up with ventilators and there were no meds, like in the beginning, we would have had so many more deaths and I do agree with yasmin.

    Right now, the young people in many states have been exposing themselves, their parents and grandparents because they believe it is a hoax and everyday very young people are dying right now.

    Yes, because we shut down long enough to mobilize, the whole country didn’t face what NYC and the Northeast faced, but Texas doctors and Arizona doctors and California doctors and Florida doctors have already cried “uncle” a few times.

    1. Deb, Regarding your comment: ” … particularly Black, Hispanic, and Latino males.”

      I know you mean well, but I’m afraid that your continuing referral to race will cause confusion for a lot of people. This is a science-based website, and since race is not a scientific concept, it can cause much confusion for the readers here, even though the Media and those who stand to gain from it keep using the term as though it is valid.

      For an excellent reference, please see the below article from National Geographic and read the excerpt therefrom below:

      https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/race-genetics-science-africa/

      Excerpt:
      “Researchers who have since looked at people at the genetic level now say that the whole category of race is misconceived. Indeed, when scientists set out to assemble the first complete human genome, which was a composite of several individuals, they deliberately gathered samples from people who self-identified as members of different races. In June 2000, when the results were announced at a White House ceremony, Craig Venter, a pioneer of DNA sequencing, observed, “The concept of race has no genetic or scientific basis.”

      Over the past few decades, genetic research has revealed two deep truths about people. The first is that all humans are closely related—more closely related than all chimps, even though there are many more humans around today. Everyone has the same collection of genes, but with the exception of identical twins, everyone has slightly different versions of some of them. Studies of this genetic diversity have allowed scientists to reconstruct a kind of family tree of human populations. That has revealed the second deep truth: In a very real sense, all people alive today are Africans.

      Our species, Homo sapiens, evolved in Africa—no one is sure of the exact time or place. The most recent fossil find, from Morocco, suggests that anatomically modern human features began appearing as long as 300,000 years ago. For the next 200,000 years or so, we remained in Africa, but already during that period, groups began to move to different parts of the continent and become isolated from one another—in effect founding new populations.”
      So in a very real scientific sense, every American citizen is an “African-American”.

      I think trying to divide people into groups based on skin color is not only meaningless but also very destructive for maintaining a harmonious society. When are we going to start treating all people as individuals as called for in the US Constitution?

      1. Darwin,

        I am not trying to point toward race as anything other than a risk factor for death with COVID.

        You could say that same thing with gender and age and we could get all politically correct about all of it.

        But there is no need to mention age unless the public needs to know that there are certain age groups affected.

        There is no need to mention gender unless the public needs to know that it is one gender affected more than the other.

        There is no need to mention race, but if the nonwhite community is going to take risks and die because nobody told them that they were more at risk, then it is unconscionable to not tell them.

        1. Deb, Age and sex have measurable scientific definitions. Race does not. Skin color is definitely not an acceptable definition either.

          I have many friends of all nationalities and skin shades. It’s impossible to categorize them into groups by visible features. I treat each one of my friends as individuals, as should all of us.

          There is a big difference between age and sex as opposed to “race”, which is a fictitious term.

          1. Darwin,

            Medically, race is measured. Health outcomes it is measured.

            In COVID-19, nonwhites have a much higher mortality level. Much higher.

            Also, we live in a time when we are caring that Black lives do matter and there are things like there is a difference racially with economics and food desserts and all sorts of tangible measures. If we don’t acknowledge race, it is an easy way to get people to not care about the very serious real issues surrounding race in our culture.

            1. Deb, Regarding your comment: “Medically, race is measured. Health outcomes it is measured.” That statement ASSUMES that people can be scientifically categorized into groups. Which the science shows is impossible. Please re-read the article I referenced above.

              The medical institutions go by what people call themselves when they fill out a form. These forms are artifacts left over from the days before science showed that “race” is a scientifically false concept. These forms should not even be used today with the new knowledge we have now. They should be done away with.

              1. Darwin,

                I understand the point of the article, but, right now is a very inconvenient time to undo the reality that there are different skin colors when people with darker skin colors are dying way more and when people who identify themselves as minorities are fighting for their rights.

                It would be clever for someone to tell the black community that they don’t exist to stop the protests but the disparity would not disappear it would just make it harder to get people to do something about it.

            2. Deb,
              Regarding your comment: ” If we don’t acknowledge race, it is an easy way to get people to not care about the very serious real issues surrounding race in our culture.”

              I know it’s a difficult concept to grasp at first, because we have all been led to believe in categorizing people into groups. But this kind of thinking leads to prejudice! If we think person A belongs to one group, then we assume he/she will behave like all the other people in that group, which is prejudicial thinking. Just the opposite of treating people as individuals.

              I would rephrase your statement as: If we don’t acknowledge race, then we can start treating people as individuals and reduce the tendency to be prejudiced.

              1. Darwin,

                At one of the Holocaust museums, there is an exercise where they sneakily tell you to group people together and then ask why you did it.

                If I remember right the choices were career, race, gender. And no matter what you answered they asked if you had a bias toward class, gender, or race.

                Yes, I tried each outcome to see if I could get a different answer.

                But reality is that our brains do want to be able to group things together rather than having to learn infinite things.

                I believe that you are going to start singing “Imagine” and I will say to you that if we were back with Abraham Lincoln or befor Jim Crowe laws and we erased the notion of race so that people wouldn’t get exploited, I probably would have been all for it, but right now, when Black people are dying at such a high rate, I would want it acknowledged.

                Plus, the black community particularly are fighting for their identity to be acknowledged and to tell them that they don’t exist doesn’t sit right.

                I will also add that, as a Christian, it is what I believe. It is in the scriptures. There is now no… is how the sentence begins and male and female and Jew and Gentile and and other way of putting a human being in the other category doesn’t exist is what I have been taught in the Bible.

                And I truly believe it.

                But I am not going to turn to the black people who I love and who are fighting for the rights of that community and use those scriptures against them or to deny the disparities or the history.

                1. Deb, No one is saying we should erase the past. In fact, we should learn from history.

                  But to make progress towards the future, we need to update our concepts and thinking to match new evidence. That’s the scientific method in a nutshell!

                  1. Darwin,

                    I already do believe it.

                    But I am protective like a mother bear with her cubs over vulnerable groups and almost every natural disaster and pandemic hits the same communities hard.

                  2. Sigh. I agree that we need to update our concepts to match the evidence, and that there is no biological basis for race. But to move from that claim to the view that race does not exist is woefully naive and, as Deb has already pointed out, damaging to those of us who are, as a matter of social fact, racial minorities. Plenty of things exist that are not biological. Would you want to reduce all explanations of human behavior to biology alone? What about social psychological explanations? There are entire fields dedicated to social science… Darwin’s view smacks of throwback ’90s colorblindness. Given the ongoing disparities in health outcomes by race, it is crucial to continue to tracking race–again, the social category, not the biological category (which does not exist). For example, it is well-documented that Blacks are at greater risk for hypertension, and at earlier risk. This is, of course, not due to genetic/biological differences, but to environment and nutrition. Nonetheless, it is an important piece of information for me, so that I can take steps like avoiding salt and consuming flax daily! Note, too, that there are studies showing that, even once you control for nutrition, there are hypertension disparities, which may have to do with other environmental stressors, some of which are not merely biological (pollution, etc.), but have to do with how we are treated. (This isn’t an issue in African countries, which have predominantly Black populations.)

                    I would recommend you read Ibram Kendi’s ‘How to be an Antiracist’.

                    1. Blackberry,

                      I ended up crying reading your comment and didn’t finish because of the salt in my eyes.

                      Then, I looked back up and it said: “so that I can take steps like avoiding salt”

                      Stay safe is the sentence we have started saying every day and I say it to you.

                      Stay safe.

                  3. You are the human race. Homo Sapiens. Neanderthal has been extinguished during a randomized controlled trial engaged by the only real and true scientist: nature itself.

        1. Fumbles, Now you know that governments never listen to the people ;-) We have to start from the bottom up. Just like Dr Greger is doing with nutrition.

          When enough people start waking up and following what the science says, then things will change … one mind at a time, as the saying goes :-)

          1. Possibly but there will always be divergent views.

            Deb has little choice but to use these figures if she wants to comprehensively identify disadvantaged groups. Also, it’s my understanding that the CDC is required by Congress to report ‘racial’ data.

            1. Fumbles, Regarding your comment: ” Also, it’s my understanding that the CDC is required by Congress to report ‘racial’ data.”

              From what I’m reading, there are a lot of elites in the US government and elsewhere that are maintaining their power and making big money on keeping the race issue going. It’s up to us average people to call out the false narrative wherever we see it, in order for things to change.

              It’s sort of like the Meat Industry keeping the public ignorant of the harms of eating meat. They would lose their source of income!

  18. My cats are obligate carnivores. Should I be concerned about feeding them chicken flavored food? Should I be feeding them something else?

    1. Cat,

      Some of the sites that are environmentally concerned do say to choose proteins with the environment in mind.

      I think bringing pandemics into the equation narrows the options.

      Basically, they recommend at staying with small animal sources of food, fish, lamb, for lower methane, and I guess stay away from chicken and pig for lower pandemic contribution.

  19. T o compound the problem: Covid-19 has exposed the US political economy as INCAPABLE of dealing with health crises of this magnitude. The underlying contradictions at the root of the system can’t fix a pot hole let alone a pandemic. Can you imagine the US dealing with doing away with concentrated animal farming in the next six months? Can you imagine this happening INTERNATIONALLY in the next 6 months? If not then, when? It will never happen with this system. Even China will have difficulties in this regard and are already reporting another virus.(And China has exhibited the most effective national response given it’s size and the fact it started Covid by its practices.) It’s true. This is just a dress rehearsal.

  20. There has been an uptick of Covid deaths both globally and in the USA this week.

    For several weeks, the global deaths were between 3,000 and 5,000. Today there were over 7,000 global deaths.

    In the USA, for weeks, deaths were down, sometimes even in the high 300’s and 400’s.

    Today The USA had over 1,200 deaths.

    Three times more than there has been since the Northeast calmed down.

  21. I saw this article that group home residents and workers had much higher mortality rates than the general population in NY.

    They found a coronavirus case rate of 7,841 per 100,000 group-home residents and that is four times the rate for New York state overall.

    Also, 15 percent died, compared with 8 percent of all New Yorkers with confirmed COVID. The team found a mortality rate of 1,175 per 100,000 group-home residents versus of 151 deaths per 100,000 non-group-home residents.

  22. I have some questions. Is there any relationship between what you eat and the covid 19 flu? If being vegan is healthier are you less likely to get sick? Has there been any studies on the people who died/and what they ate?

    1. Robert,

      There hasn’t been time to do that type of study yet, but we do know that there are comorbidities and those are linked to mortality and there is a definite link between a vegan diet and not having certain comorbidities.

      When you say vegan though, Whole Food Plant-Based, low to no oil, low sugar and sodium would be the diet that is linked to even reversing diseases.

      1. Vegan junk food isn’t much better than the Standard American diet and it might actually be worse than some diets with all of the processed foods.

        Dr. Greger has a “shocking vegan study” video on YouTube and back then, when vegans weren’t supplementing B12, they would end up with high homocysteine and they were having the wrong Omega 3 to 6 ratio and were just plain eating too much sodium and too much processed food and they didn’t have the same vegan benefit as the Adventists got from eating a Whole Food Plant-Based form of vegan.

        1. Watch Dr. Greger’s reversing heart disease, reversing diabetes, lowering blood pressure videos.

          Health can be improved in days or weeks.

        2. People clearly may not be healthy when they need supplements in order to maintain adequate levels of vitamins that are normally produced by the gut.

          The need for vitamin B12 supplementation may in fact hide a severe microbiome imbalance in people eating vegan or whole foods plant-based.

      1. Incredible your article Mr Fumblefingers…

        “Mitigating Covid-19 through diet & exposome”

        Not a single word on the most important things: the detrimental effects of dietary cholesterol and the importance of nitric oxide…

        1. You relentlessly harrass posters on here ab for their apparent (to you) errors and omissions, but from where I sit, it is only YOU that consistently makes unsupported claims. This is beyond tiresome. Please post a supporting study from a recognized journal for the claims you make. It is not up to us to ‘look it up’. it is up to YOU to provide evidence for each of your claims.

          1. Barb, are you sitting on a cactus for being so much irritated ?

            I am not a doer of miracles, and I can not make blind people see what they do not want to see.

            When there are dozens of irreprochable experimental studies in the scientific litterature clearly showing that cholesterol-rich cells enhances the viral infection from dozens of different viruses including SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2, and when studies show that the innate immune response to viral infection is to diminish its own endogenous cholesterol production, it is beyond doubt that cholesterol is a main culprit in the pandemic crisis that humanity faces today.

            However neither governments, neither medical authorities, neither plant-based doctors, neither Dr Greger, nor you seem to be able to see this mere and simple fact.

            No one can see this fact at your place, Barb, it’s all up to you.

            https://i.ytimg.com/vi/AY7ix3m3QSY/hqdefault.jpg

            1. ab, please, if you are making a statement about something specific and claim that ‘studies show that…’ , then please do post the link. Many people commenting on this forum enjoy looking at studies so by all means share the ones that you refer too. I would like to see if cholesterol does indeed increase risk of virus infection, (particularly covid).

              1. ab, ok I found a post above written by yourself to mrpinkerton where you included links about sirt6.
                I do not pretend to understand the science involved, but you also included your suggestion for foods that would be helpful ie red berries, foods producing nitric oxide
                (leafy greens, beets etc) and eliminating dietary cholesterol. thank you.

              2. Barb,

                I can give you hundred of articles, but here some random ones:

                1) Limiting Cholesterol Biosynthetic Flux Spontaneously Engages Type I IFN Signaling
                1) Host Defense against Viral Infection Involves Interferon Mediated Down-Regulation of Sterol Biosynthesis
                2) The Major Cellular Sterol Regulatory Pathway Is Required for Andes Virus Infection
                3) Importance of cholesterol-rich membrane microdomains in the interaction of the S protein of SARS-coronavirus with the cellular receptor angiotensin-converting enzyme 2
                etc, etc….

                But I already know what you are going to answer, as like you, they all first begin to say that there is no study, no science to support it, then when you show them the science, they say that it is only in vitro studies, or if it is in vivo, they either say that laboratory mices or rats are not human if they are not vegan, or if they are vegan, they say that in vivo studies are animals exploitation and cruelty, and dismiss it.

                But both human and mices or rats are mammals and all mammals share a common innate immune system which also takes its root in the first colonies of cells that appeared on Earth a very long time ago.

                1. Thanks ab for your comment and your refetences. Really interesting. Again, I can not even begin to understand the science behind it, but I do find it fascinating. In searching days ago, I did come across a paper discussing how statins interfered with flu vaccine efficacy, and that made me pay attention to what you were posting about cholesterol, albeit from another angle. Another article was discussing how statins could be ‘protective’ against the virus, and again that pointed me to what you have been saying here in this forum. (I am on statins, but not that I recommend them… I was looking at the point of lowering cholesterol ,lowering inflammation, associated with better protection re covid)

                  In my own life experience, I have struggled with flu-type illnesses, but have been wfpb for many years. Coincidentaly this year I shopped for supplies making a point of including frozen berries, greens, green tea, borsht (cabbage and beets). It can’t hurt!

                  1. Statins might mess up with the immune system and that may be why you are prone to flu illness. Do you have high cholesterol though you are on WFPB ?

          2. I have to had that I personally submitted 4 or 5 different correspondences to The Lancet Journals on different topics related to COVID-19 since the beginning of the pandemy, but they all have been refused for publication.

  23. Speaking of COVID-19, today, the USA reached its record hospitalizations. More people are in the hospital in the USA than at any time before this in the pandemic.

    https://www.vox.com/2020/7/23/21335549/covid-19-coronavirus-us-hospitalizations-record-florida-texas-california

    We know that more of them will live than before percentage-wise. But kids haven’t gone back to school yet and the more back to normal we are the more cases we get and the more cases we get the more hospitalizations and deaths we get and the more of those we get, the more young people will die, too. At a lower percentage, of course.

    They are taking up a lot of hospital beds, but most of them will live. We already know that. Percentage-wise, even though hospitalizations are dramatically up, the young people often get out of the hospitals rather than go to the ICU, but the younger people are infecting their older relatives. They have analyzed it and it is happening.

    Group settings are probably not good. One convent had 13 nuns die.

    I think college dorms would generate so many cases and deaths. I base it on now.

    If we take now and multiply it to colleges opening levels, we are going to see even more record-breaking numbers.

    But we should be able to see how well some of these meds and convalescent plasma work soon.

    It bothers me that we probably are seeing them work, but we are still getting over 1000 deaths per day.

    That tells me that if we hadn’t closed down, we would have had so many places be like NY. That still might happen in a few states, but we have more people recovering now, no matter how many deaths we have, percentage-wise we are doing better at how many people recover.

  24. Has NutritionFacts.org decided they can’t handle any contact outside these video comments? Their email is a “no-reply” which supplies a link to a “contact us” form that does not exist. I am disappointed.

    1. Dr Greger told someone to email him today during the Q&A.

      But he said that he is moving in 10 days so maybe it will take a few weeks for things to get back in order?

      Or he got thousands of emails after saying that sentence and he shut them down for a night?

  25. They were just talking about heart rate going up before other symptoms for Covid.

    People can use a heart rate monitor or a smart watch or pulse ox.

    They said they had one case where the heart rate elevation showed up 9 days before the symptoms.

    So it might be better than a thermometer.

  26. The flu doesn’t have a high transmition rate compared to Covid and the death rate is far above what it should be. When you measure Covid death rates, taking into account estimated asymptomatic patients, you also have to take into account asymptomatic flu patients as well.

    1. The flu doesn’t have a high transmission rate but has a high replicability rate, which is common with the SARS-CoV-2, but not common with other coronaviruses.

  27. I just finished viewing a UK crop circle YT video about this COVID-19 protein molecule. You can view the full video here: https://youtu.be/FdiPzX7m6SM
    The important part of this comment is from 10:06 – 18:02. It talks about how amino acids make peptides that make proteins. The pandemic molecule is a protein molecule that is not alive, but, apparently quite conscious as Gaia prunes her planet. @ 17:20 “…in order to make progress with this virus, concentrate your efforts on Sp8. The crop circle seems to be showing us a magnified version of Sp8, which, may teach us how to protect ourselves from the virus…” I have paraphrased this as best I am able.

    This is compelling and I wish one of Michael’s staff could get him to sit and listen and also see these images that were filmed in the UK on May 19th 2020.

  28. Lentils reduce the risk of some kinds of cancer 47 percent. https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2013/9/lentils-the-elite-legume Lentils are rich in phosphorus. Do you think that there is a link between phosphorus and cancer? There might be. Is Phosphorus the key to cancer? https://jbuon.com/archive/24-2-859.pdf Vegans might need more phosphorus, Dr. Greger said in a video. Good luck putting it on the nutrition label he said. Doom to disease and the poverty brought by the life saving qurentine. .

  29. This video’s script is unfortunately dated, with a considerable underestimates of both the case fatality rate and infection fatality rate. At present, the Covid-19 case fatality rate is 3.5%, though this will probably increase as current cases in this wave resolve. From seroprevalence surveys and excess deaths in vital statistics, it appears the infection fatality rate in NYC was 1.2%. Confirmed deaths in the US have screamed past 100k, were at 140k and climbing more than 1k/day. When I experiment with the known generation times and Rt in epidemiological models, I get 300-500k deaths by the end of the year.

    I think Covid-19 will be a “Cat 4” pandemic. It’s not particularly transmissible or lethal, but because its transmission is primarily by the presymptomatic and asymptomatic, it is insidious, impossible to contain without population wide measures like masking.

    1. The ecosystemic viral load could be curbed if all the population was eating a no cholesterol starch-based plant nutrition and the mortality could be curbed if infected patients were not wearing a source control mask..

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