Where Do Deadly Coronaviruses Like MERS-CoV Come From?

Where Do Deadly Coronaviruses Like MERS-CoV Come From?
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In the last 17 years, there have been three new deadly coronavirus epidemics, but where do emerging diseases emerge from?

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

It was December 30, 2019—New Year’s Eve eve—when Dr. Li Wenliang, an ophthalmologist at Wuhan Central Hospital in the Hubei province of China, messaged his fellow physicians alerting them to the appearance of a concerning cluster of pneumonia cases. In response, he was detained for “spreading rumors,” summoned to the Public Security Bureau, and reprimanded for “making false statements that disturbed the public order.” Thirty-nine days later, after becoming infected with the very virus he tried to warn his colleagues about, he was dead at age 33. By that time, the disease had already spread to dozens of countries. My new book How to Survive a Pandemic is dedicated to Dr. Li’s memory.

His initial message read “7 SARS cases confirmed at the Hoo-ah-nin Seafood Market.” SARS stands for Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, which, seventeen years earlier, had been the first deadly global outbreak triggered by a coronavirus. (Sadly, the doctor who first alerted the world to that epidemic, Carlo Urbani, also succumbed to the disease.)

Coronaviruses are named for their crown-like appearance under an electron microscope—from the Latin corona, for “crown,” as in coronation—due to a fringe of protein spikes that radiate from the surface. I’m sure you’ve all seen those graphical representations, but this is what they actually look like under an electron microscope. You can see that halo of spikes. These are actually chicken coronaviruses, the first type of coronavirus ever discovered, which cause a disease called avian infectious bronchitis. Here’s the COVID-19 coronavirus. It’s a little hard to see the spikes, but they show up nice in this colorized version.

Before the big outbreak of SARS in 2003, only two coronaviruses were known to cause disease in humans, and both caused little more than the common cold. But the SARS coronavirus went on to kill nearly one in ten people it infected––a 10 percent mortality rate.

A decade later, in 2012, another deadly coronavirus emerged: MERS, the Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus. Like SARS, MERS spread to infect thousands of people across dozens of countries, but this time, one in three died. More than a 30 percent mortality rate!

Emerged, from where? Where do emerging infectious diseases emerge from? According to the CDC, three-quarters of new or emerging infectious diseases in people come from animals, based likely on this landmark study of the risk factors for human disease emergence, and it may be an even greater percentage for human viral infections––all of which may have originated in animals, been zoonotic in origin, meaning an animal-to-human disease.

In the case of coronaviruses, most human coronaviruses appear to have arisen originally in bats. The reason bats make such good viral hosts is that up to 200,000 can crowd together in dense roosting colonies, and they can fly more than a thousand miles, acquiring and spreading new viral strains. Their unique navigational tool—echolocation—may even facilitate bat-to-bat transmission by spraying out respiratory secretions.

But people aren’t getting the diseases directly from bats. Bats are considered the primordial hosts, the “gene pool” from which genetic fragments of coronaviruses can mix and match. Breaching the species barrier to infect people appears to necessitate intermediary hosts in whom coronaviruses can adapt, amplify, and access human populations. In the case of MERS, the intermediate hosts were found to be camels.

A bat in Saudi Arabia was found carrying the MERS coronavirus, but it is contact with the bodily fluids of infected camels—particularly their nasal secretions—that is considered the major risk factor for human infection. Once camels infect people, MERS can then be spread human-to-human.

Now of course, those in the camel business denied the link between MERS and camel exposure. In response to the warnings that those in close camel contact “wear proper personal protective equipment at all times” they launched with a social media campaign entitled, and I’m not making this up, Kiss Your Camel.

But wait, we domesticated camels 3,000 years ago. What happened to turn camel slobber into a potential kiss of death? Archived samples of camel blood show MERS had long been circulating in them for decades before spilling over into the human population. Why now?

Camels used to be allowed to forage outdoors, but as more and more camels were being raised, desertification from overgrazing forced the industry to transition to thousands of camel farms, using enclosed, high-density housing systems where they were confined indoors. And the high-intensity contact between camels alongside their workers is thought to be what helped drive the spillover of the MERS coronavirus from camels to humans. By 2011, open grazing was completely banned in Qatar, the Middle Eastern country with the highest camel density. The next year, the first human cases of MERS were reported.

In my next video, I’ll cover the emergence of the SARS coronavirus and then the emergence of SARS coronavirus 2, the cause of COVID-19.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Motion graphics by AvoMedia

Image credit: Islam Elzayat via pngtree.com. Image has been modified.

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

It was December 30, 2019—New Year’s Eve eve—when Dr. Li Wenliang, an ophthalmologist at Wuhan Central Hospital in the Hubei province of China, messaged his fellow physicians alerting them to the appearance of a concerning cluster of pneumonia cases. In response, he was detained for “spreading rumors,” summoned to the Public Security Bureau, and reprimanded for “making false statements that disturbed the public order.” Thirty-nine days later, after becoming infected with the very virus he tried to warn his colleagues about, he was dead at age 33. By that time, the disease had already spread to dozens of countries. My new book How to Survive a Pandemic is dedicated to Dr. Li’s memory.

His initial message read “7 SARS cases confirmed at the Hoo-ah-nin Seafood Market.” SARS stands for Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, which, seventeen years earlier, had been the first deadly global outbreak triggered by a coronavirus. (Sadly, the doctor who first alerted the world to that epidemic, Carlo Urbani, also succumbed to the disease.)

Coronaviruses are named for their crown-like appearance under an electron microscope—from the Latin corona, for “crown,” as in coronation—due to a fringe of protein spikes that radiate from the surface. I’m sure you’ve all seen those graphical representations, but this is what they actually look like under an electron microscope. You can see that halo of spikes. These are actually chicken coronaviruses, the first type of coronavirus ever discovered, which cause a disease called avian infectious bronchitis. Here’s the COVID-19 coronavirus. It’s a little hard to see the spikes, but they show up nice in this colorized version.

Before the big outbreak of SARS in 2003, only two coronaviruses were known to cause disease in humans, and both caused little more than the common cold. But the SARS coronavirus went on to kill nearly one in ten people it infected––a 10 percent mortality rate.

A decade later, in 2012, another deadly coronavirus emerged: MERS, the Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus. Like SARS, MERS spread to infect thousands of people across dozens of countries, but this time, one in three died. More than a 30 percent mortality rate!

Emerged, from where? Where do emerging infectious diseases emerge from? According to the CDC, three-quarters of new or emerging infectious diseases in people come from animals, based likely on this landmark study of the risk factors for human disease emergence, and it may be an even greater percentage for human viral infections––all of which may have originated in animals, been zoonotic in origin, meaning an animal-to-human disease.

In the case of coronaviruses, most human coronaviruses appear to have arisen originally in bats. The reason bats make such good viral hosts is that up to 200,000 can crowd together in dense roosting colonies, and they can fly more than a thousand miles, acquiring and spreading new viral strains. Their unique navigational tool—echolocation—may even facilitate bat-to-bat transmission by spraying out respiratory secretions.

But people aren’t getting the diseases directly from bats. Bats are considered the primordial hosts, the “gene pool” from which genetic fragments of coronaviruses can mix and match. Breaching the species barrier to infect people appears to necessitate intermediary hosts in whom coronaviruses can adapt, amplify, and access human populations. In the case of MERS, the intermediate hosts were found to be camels.

A bat in Saudi Arabia was found carrying the MERS coronavirus, but it is contact with the bodily fluids of infected camels—particularly their nasal secretions—that is considered the major risk factor for human infection. Once camels infect people, MERS can then be spread human-to-human.

Now of course, those in the camel business denied the link between MERS and camel exposure. In response to the warnings that those in close camel contact “wear proper personal protective equipment at all times” they launched with a social media campaign entitled, and I’m not making this up, Kiss Your Camel.

But wait, we domesticated camels 3,000 years ago. What happened to turn camel slobber into a potential kiss of death? Archived samples of camel blood show MERS had long been circulating in them for decades before spilling over into the human population. Why now?

Camels used to be allowed to forage outdoors, but as more and more camels were being raised, desertification from overgrazing forced the industry to transition to thousands of camel farms, using enclosed, high-density housing systems where they were confined indoors. And the high-intensity contact between camels alongside their workers is thought to be what helped drive the spillover of the MERS coronavirus from camels to humans. By 2011, open grazing was completely banned in Qatar, the Middle Eastern country with the highest camel density. The next year, the first human cases of MERS were reported.

In my next video, I’ll cover the emergence of the SARS coronavirus and then the emergence of SARS coronavirus 2, the cause of COVID-19.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Motion graphics by AvoMedia

Image credit: Islam Elzayat via pngtree.com. Image has been modified.

Doctor's Note

This is the first in a 17-video series on pandemics and COVID-19. You may have seen these in my recent free webinar, but if you didn’t, they’ll be rolling out on the site over the next several weeks, AND you can get a free download of the entire series here right now.

Here is the whole series:

  1. Where Do Deadly Coronaviruses Like MERS-CoV Come From?
  2. The SARS Coronavirus and Wet Markets
  3. Where Did the COVID-19 Coronavirus Come From?
  4. The Last Coronavirus Pandemic May Have Been Caused by Livestock
  5. R0 and Incubation Periods: How Other Coronavirus Outbreaks Were Stopped
  6. Social Distancing, Lockdowns & Testing: How to Slow the COVID-19 Pandemic
  7. COVID-19 Symptoms vs. the Flu, a Cold or Allergies
  8. Modifiable Risk Factors and Comorbidities for Severe COVID-19 Infection
  9. The Immune System and COVID-19 Treatment
  10. Would Zinc Lozenges Help with COVID-19?
  11. How to Avoid COVID-19
  12. Hand Washing & Sanitizing to Inactivate COVID-19 Coronavirus
  13. What to Do if You Come Down with COVID-19
  14. The Best Mask or DIY Face Covering for COVID-19
  15. How COVID-19 Ends: Vaccination, Mutations, and Herd Immunity
  16. The COVID-19 Pandemic May Just Be a Dress Rehearsal
  17. How to Prevent the Next Pandemic

You can also find this information and even more in my new book, How to Survive a Pandemic (all proceeds are donated to charity). With my How Not to Diet book tour suspended, the COVID-19 crisis allowed me an opportunity to draw on my past expertise in infectious disease to fast-track this new book. 

If you haven’t seen it yet, we’ve put up a resource page all about COVID-19 with videos, links to my pandemic blog post and special Q&A sessions, my DIY hand sanitizer recipe, and more. Check it out here

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

184 responses to “Where Do Deadly Coronaviruses Like MERS-CoV Come From?

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  1. So if SARS killed 1 in 10 and MERS killed 1 in 3, why didn’t we see them take place in the US to the extent we saw with Covid-19?

    1. People do not have camels into their apartments. However many have cats who may eat virally intoxicated meatballs made from animal meals and by-products.

      1. The bat-man zoonosis is not a very serious hypothesis. However the cat-woman zoonosis is much probable. Women are also less at risks of severe COVID-19 than men.

        1. The novel coronavirus is a marvel of nature that deserves admiration and respect, not the hatred and war that goes on and on and which is fueled by politicians who publish articles into the Lancet Journal.

        1. “This is the first in a 17-video series on pandemics and COVID-19.”
          – – – – – – – – –

          Dr. G. is making 17…did I read that right, 17?…..videos about this dastardly virus? Just what it needs to keep it alive: more fear thoughts thrown into the ether. :-(

          See you again, many weeks from now. Or maybe not.

          1. YR, Hopefully, Dr G will still have the Flashback Friday videos and new blogs about other topics on Tuesday & Thursday.

            I enjoy your posting of links to Youtube videos of the old rock & roll age old TV shows, so I’ll miss your postings if you leave and don’t come back at all!

          2. YR,

            I am sorry if it causes “fear thoughts” in you.

            Might be time to breathe and look at nature.

            He is trying to educate people in how to stop these dastardly pandemics from happening quite so often.

          1. Den Mother Deb,

            Thanks for feeling “sorry” for me, but I don’t think you understood the point of my post. The subject per se is what adds fear thoughts (vibes) into the ether. I personally am not fearful of the freakin’ thing; hooligans and their riots, looting and terrorism are more to be feared IMO. (I see you too like the word dastardly; it’s a good one, isn’t it. :-)

            Yes, Darwin, maybe other days will have something more interesting — other than what sounds like “deja vu all over again.”

            Rodrigo, that link does indeed look interesting. I think I’ll be able to check it out on Firefox. I know Dr. RB — like so many others — gets “taken down” by Youtube.

      1. Less contagious? or as someone mentioned, so virulent that the infected ones effectively quarantined themselves? No one seems to recognize that this one may allow for herd immunity because it usually is not so bad.

    2. I think it had to do with how transmittable the disease is. My understanding is that there is a range of forms an illness can take. If the sickness is deadly and acts quickly, then it has no time to spread between people. On the other side, if it is relatively unharmful but spreads easily, then it’s not a big problem because it’s not threatening. Covid-19 is problematic because it’s in the “sweet spot” where it isn’t deadly enough to stop transmission, but is still harmful enough to be a problem. In short, it is pretty contagious and isn’t super deadly, allowing for high transmission rates. The others acted fast and we’re more deadly, slowing the rates of transmission.

      1. COVID-19 is not a communicable disease. However it is triggered by the novel coronavirus infection. We have to be careful to not mix and confound the two like most people including scientists, governments and mainstream media are doing, who are spreading confusion into the public.

    3. Because SARS and MERS made people so ill so fast that they didn’t circulate in the healthy population spreading the virus. People usually walk around with Covid-19 for a while before getting ill, and there is a hypothesis that some remain long-term carriers without getting ill. It’s a matter of exposure.

    4. It is my understanding that SARS and MERS had a lower Rnaught (the number of people a carrier could infect) and much shorter incubation period and everyone got violently ill, so it much easier to do contact tracing and quarantining. China and the Middle East did a great job stopping it quickly before it had a chance of spreading and they were helped by these factors. Unfortunately Covid likely has higher Rnaught, much longer incubation period, and many asymptomatic carriers spreading the disease. All these characteristics make it much easier to spread and harder to contain.

    5. SARS and MERS were less communicable and also a weaker pathogen that appeared to not survive well even in circulation. This info is only easily available on any search engine is asked.

    6. Because neither of those viruses has thankfully mutated enough to be able to effectively spread from human to human. What keeps everyone up at night is that it could happen anytime. We could get something that spreads as fast as flu viruses but kills as deadly as EBOLA.

  2. There’s pretty compelling data that Sars-Cov-2, the Covid-19 virus, came from the Wuhan lab, which coincidentally works with bat viruses. This virus contains a large chunk of RNA that is not found in nature, is too large to have occurred as a natural mutation, and could easily have been inserted into bat viral RNA in a lab. In addition, this sequence just happens to be coding for the virus’ spike protein which is what allows it to enter into a human cell to infect it in the first place. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD3ztjqYGbg

    1. You do not need any expensive ab for creating deadly virus: agricultural fields spread with animal and human manures are already wide and open air viral labs where viruses and viral particles can be passed on animals who are feeding there.

      1. Hi ab,

        I totally agree with you.You definitely don’t need an expensive lab to create a deadly virus. People condemning innocent animals to CAFO’s, slaughter houses, humans living in close proximity to animals, as well as your excellent point about ag fields spread with manure definitely are ways deadly viruses can evolve. It’s just that they evolve via gradual mutations, one or two base pairs at a time, not a handful of them.

        1. Hi Julie,

          Yes, it is a gradual process. And it’s why the idea that the coronavirus has suddenly jumped from wild animals into human beings within a wet market makes very little sense, because the wild animals don’t stay a very long time into those markets.

          The novel coronavirus is the result of a slow evolution potentially involving many domesticated animal species. One strongly suspects that the animal by-products given to agricultural animals are part of that evolutionary chain of the virus. In Netherlands, minks may have contaminated human beings with the novel coronavirus.

          https://www.euronews.com/2020/05/20/coronavirus-minks-test-positive-for-covid-19-at-two-dutch-farms

          The food given to those animals, which originates from other agricultural animal by-products, might be the culprit.

    2. Julie,

      So why do most scientists disagree with your hypothesis?

      And how do you explain all past pandemics? That they were genetically engineered, too?

      1. Hi Dr. J,

        Just because other pandemics weren’t genetically engineered, doesn’t mean that this one was not. I totally get viruses mutating in animals and infecting people, and obviously most viruses that have plagued us over generations are natural mutants. However, I do not believe Covid-19 came into being this way.

    3. Actually Peak Prosperity is a hawker of convenient alarmist theories, usually about some economic phenomenon or another. This is not something anyone outside a conspiracy theorist would seriously entertain.

      1. Hi Stewart E.

        I agree with your comment to some extent. Yes, Peak Prosperity has some alarmist theories that I definitely do not agree with. However, i don’t want to “throw the baby out with the bath water” and say everything he says is garbage. I think his explanation for Covid-19 being a Wuhan lab creation is quite compelling.

    4. There’s pretty compelling data that the 2019 Military World Games were the first onset of nCov-2019 epidemics in human beings, as many athletes of many different countries have been strangely ill during and after those Games.

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8327047/More-competitors-reveal-ill-World-Military-Games.html

      This indicates that the virus may not originate from China at all, as thousands of people from hundreds of different countries were present during those games in Wuhan at the end of october 2019. The virus may have been imported in Wuhan during those Games.

      For example, a clinical case of COVID-19 was confirmed by thoracic scan as soon as mid november in France, and before the China’s epidemics started in december-january.
      http://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20200520-scans-show-french-patients-were-sick-with-covid-19-in-mid-november-doctors-say-colmar-haut-rhin

      1. ab,

        None of that is compelling yet because they are still searching to see if it was COVID-19 or a similar virus.

        The fact that the other illness was also in Wuhan doesn’t mean yet that it is the same virus.

        I have been thinking a lot about this because my relatives all got so sick this winter, starting in November and had the “COVID-19 symptoms” more than once, but that doesn’t mean that they had COVID-19 back then, and one of them had symptoms again during this COVID-19 time period and still tested negative, so it just can be that there are a lot of things going around.

        It is a theory worth investigating, but “compelling evidence” has to not be the words used yet. “There is a theory” is a better term.

        It says in the article that some of the people who got sick at the event tested negative. As far as those testing positive now, the fact that 80 percent of the cases won’t know if they had it over these past few months since then, it is hard to tell that they didn’t have it a few weeks ago, rather than back then.

        There was a virus causing similar symptoms back then.

        The French have 2 cases with similar symptoms but they haven’t examined the blood samples for evidence of COVID-19 yet. Just that there were 2 people with symptoms.

        1. Deb,

          In a cohort of more of 1000 patients, Chest CT has been shown to outperform lab testing for COVID-19, so the mid-november cases in France are pretty surely COVID-19 cases.

          CT provides best diagnosis for COVID-19
          https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200226151951.htm

          Also a genetic study of the virus in France, has shown that the predominant strain of the virus didn’t come from the strain responsible for the epidemics in China, but rather that they might have a same ancestor. This may mean that the virus could have come from France to China and potentially during the Military World Games…

          http://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20200429-french-coronavirus-strain-may-be-local-and-may-not-have-come-from-china

        2. Deb: I’m confused. What symptoms in Covid are different than influenza? Do we feel Johns Hopkins is a trusted source? If so, have a short read here: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

          Isn’t there only one way to know if you have Covid? (testing)

          AB: Thorasic scans showing what? Covid? Wouldnt they simply show symptoms brought on by Covid………… OR Influenza?

          My understanding is nobody is dying from Covid. They are dying from complications of Covid, which are identical to Influenza. Pneumonia. respiratory issues, and both overun hospitals, and require ventilators in the worst cases.
          (I realize I dont know everything so I’m definitely open to information showing Covid kills directly like …cancer for instance, rather than our immune system killing us because of Covid, like it does sometimes in the Flu or HIV, or others when our immune system is already compromised by our lifestyle – generallyu speaking…

          I am not seeing information anywhere which validates that Covid symptoms which are any different than influenza. We only know we have it when we are tested, or after having been given tamaflu medicine without response. Id this an incorrect statement?

          Great conversation here.

          By the way I went to the CDC and they hardly mention masks except in the case where you have an infected housemate AND if they cant be isolated. I can hunt for that info if requested..

          As an aside…What we do know, is that the government just printed us into trillions of debt over a health crisis (not a financial one) in an unprecedented redistribution of wealth where 80% goes directly to corporations. Architected by Pelosi, Schumer, Mconnel, Trump. (Pelosi and Trump are hundred millionaires)….And that is just round one.
          (And yes it has become a financial crisis too, but that is because the country was ordered into one – without having checks balances and automatic support already baked in …..to prevent the financial crisis. Have a look at other countries in europe for instance and see if they are having anywhere near the financial meltdown that we are.)

            1. Interesting. Not conclusive I’d say, and I “may” have tempeh for lunch. Just kidding, thanks for the post. will need a real study for sure, but I also wonder if other respiratory illness also present in this alternative way? (the mini study didnt mention it, and focused only on influenza) If so, docs would then need to rule out all those as well yes?

          1. jazzBass,

            MedCram showed it visually.

            3 minutes in.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IrYyhufDwI&t=4s

            The risk of transmission drops by about 75% if everybody wears masks.

            Do you not think of 75% decrease risk as valuable enough to think it is a good idea?

            Or are you sitting on the fence waiting for the CDC?

            The agencies have the problem that people can’t afford masks and masks weren’t available and that some people are too sick to wear masks and other issues like that.

          2. jazzBass,

            COVID-19 is the disease that is attacking things like the lungs and hearts of people.

            MedCram has pictures of what is being damaged and when this came out the doctors were confused by what was happening in so many ways. The medical doctors’ responses weren’t, “This is like the flu and people are dying of pneumonia” it was “We don’t understand why this is happening or why that is happening.”

            I highly recommend MedCram because the doctor works on a COVD-19 floor and if you watch some of the earlier videos, you will get understanding.

            You are talking cause of death and would you say, “Nobody is dying from cancer, they are dying from their organs shutting down.”

            Or when cancer is the disease do you switch to, “He died from cancer” and that sentence doesn’t bother you?

            There are YouTube videos where doctors talk about how difficult it is to list a cause of death when people die. The question becomes did they die from the disease COVID-19 attacking their heart or do you move the death to the category of heart attack, for instance. The doctors do call COVID-19 cause of death. They died from COVID-19 is the language the experts use, but there are cases where the language changes to “They died with COVID-19”

            1. We knew for decades that viral infections are increased by eating a cholesterol rich diet and that new viruses can outbreak at anytime anywhere.

              They can’t say: We don’t understand why this is happening or why that is happening.”

              This is not acceptable.

        3. deb,
          My family and I were severely ill with respiratory infections starting in December 2019. Some ended up in hospital with pneumonia. Some were told bronchitis, flu, etc… no one had blood work done, only chest x rays.
          We had never been sick like this before. My husband, 75 years old and I , 67 in our whole lives.
          We now think we had Covid 19. But until we can have the serology, antibodies test, we won’t know. I’m in Canada.
          My sister, in Brazil, was extremely ill at the end of February. At the time, in hospital, was told she had a viral infection. Symptoms were diarrhea and vomiting. Now, last week she had the antibodies test done and tested positive! So she did have Covid 19 in February when no one there knew about those symptoms being part of it. Her husband also had Covid 19 in May, his only symptom headaches.

    5. There is NOT compelling data that covid-19 came from a lab. This is a conspiracy theory from very unreliable sources. All of your statements are false.

      1. The first header begins with a false, unfounded claim about the “natural origin” of the virus.

        Animal agriculture is not “natural”.

        So, the virus has most likely “anthropic” origin, not “natural” origin.

        1. I think the the first header states , to my understanding, its of natural origin IN COMPARISON to laboratory made. Definitely an argument(and counter argument) to be made that even our hundreds if not thousands of years of animal agriculture isn’t “natural”, yes, but so far we aren’t manufacturing cows in the laboratory for consumption, so in that sense they seem to say that this is of a natural origin, occurring out of a natural process, however much we do not like factory farming.

          1. I do not think that the virus comes from a natural process.

            Is it natural for animals to eat by-products of other animals, or to eat plants that grow onto other animal manures or even human manures ?

            It clearly does not happen in nature. In forest soils, humus is created mainly through the fermentation of leaves and little branches. The manure of wild animals only play a miniscule part into the fertility of forest soils from which are derived agricultural soils after deforestation.

    6. One of the biggest motivators of people spreading these conspiracy theories is the idea of them having ‘special’ knowledge. So it does not matter if you are an expert in that field, they know more than you because ‘you are part of the conspiracy’ or you’re just an idiot to them. That is called illusory superiority or illusory knowledge and it is very very alluring to certain people.

      Narcissism is a factor behind this. When people spread conspiracy theories, they get a sense of satisfaction out of it. They feel like they are special. So sometimes the people perpetuating this are doing it for their own gratification but at a long term cost to public understanding of science and medicine and ultimately sometimes to public health.

      1. When people call dissent, or alternative thought a “conspiracy theory”, there is also the risk that they call for people to reject an actual possibility, and dismiss the possibility that special knowledge can even be had. Brilliant minds can indeed make shape of seemingly unrelated data, like so many of our great scientific discoveries, which required this talent to discover. I wont name the things we know now that were discounted as conspiracies historically.

        I think there is a slippery slope regarding adherence to labeling of outside thinkers as conspiracy theorists, at first glance, without proper understanding and a lot of questions. Those throwing conspiracy theorist labels at others may have been consumed by manufactured consent, and are naturally sheepish conformists. They themselves could potentially be unable to conjure knowledge from disparate facts, and this makes them unable to conceive larger ideas.

        It also makes them angry. Talk to any religious person regarding their beliefs and you will find that this description of yours, about conspiracy theorists, fits perfectly. Perhaps 6 billion people on our planet are conspiracy theorists with special knowledge that god exists and have a place in heaven for them. Ask them “How do you know?”, they will reply in some way that they have “special knowledge” in the form of faith, or perhaps a direct inner speech, or between the lines in a religious text..

        I’ve had so many conversations with “experts” in their fields and soon realize how stuck they are, and ironically, completely narcissistic. They just know, and don’t ask a single question, and don’t like your questions either. If one thinks they are an expert in their field, they must now at all costs defend that position, lest they be found out as, well, fake. Picture typical tenured college professors strolling the academic halls, hands behind backs, each tittering of getting or being published and not a question between them. Its baked in, the requirement to monetize the expertise, or validate it through publishing, so they can lay the claim of expertise. Sometimes just being a doctor at a known University for instance makes one feel they are an expert in their field.

        To all “experts” (and film buffs) I suggest, watch the Orson Wells film called “F, for Fake” .
        Here’s an excerpt from a section at wikipedia:

        [Questions of truthfulness
        Author Robert Anton Wilson, a great fan of the film, argued in Cosmic Trigger III: My Life After Death that the film was itself largely an intentional effort at fakery by Welles in support of the film’s themes. Most directly, Wilson reports that in the BBC documentary Orson Welles: Stories of a Life in Film, Welles stated that “everything in that film was a trick.” Secondly, many of the interviews in the film were with people who were themselves directly involved with forgery in one way or another, often making statements that would have been known by the filmmakers to be false, but which were allowed to pass without comment in the film. Similarly, Welles himself made numerous false statements about Oja Kodar in the film. Finally, Wilson points out several scenes which, while presented in a way that implies they were filmed in real time, were upon further inspection clearly fabricated from unrelated pieces of footage in a way guaranteed to mislead the casual viewer. ]

        I believe Experts are high level lifetime learners who ask a lot of questions and sometimes are too, labeled conspiracy theorists, but conspiracy theorists are those whose views cannot stand up to rigorous questioning – but question we must.

        1. Loved F for Fake.

          I agree with you about this:

          I believe Experts are high-level lifetime learners who ask a lot of questions and sometimes are too labeled conspiracy theorists, but conspiracy theorists are those whose views cannot stand up to rigorous questioning – but question we must.

          The conspiracy theorists tend to be very aggressively authoritatively coming against the “experts” and sometimes it will be the experts who didn’t ask enough questions.

          I like learning things from multiple sides.

          But there are con artists in the mix and they will make things up, intentionally adding to the confusion.

        2. jassBazz,

          I would say that at least half of the people on this website come from the tendency of dissenting opinion and I may be one of them.

          There is definitely an information war and people like Dr. Greger are in the middle of the war but he has come out against Big Food, Big Pharma, and studies that are funded by interest groups and all sorts of other topics.

          He is definitely not afraid to question authority and he hasn’t shut down the free flow of discussion on this topic. Except maybe once. Hard to say because sometimes computers shut things down.

          People are being severely injured by the underhanded ways that the info wars are happening and that becomes the issue.

          1. Yes Deb me too, couldn’t agree more, and Im amazed that anything in my post could have lead you to believe I cannot see these obvious strentghts in Dr. Greger? There is only real info, (and I dont own it, but I search for it) the rest is torn apart by a few questions. Not sure why you posted that to me, since I think Dr. Gregor is saying what he needs to say, no matter if 50% of the people here don’t listen to it or find it conspiricist. Wondering what could I have said that you felt you had to protect him, or point out his obvious strengths and reason for being, reflected on every video he puts out? Hes my favorite source for honest opinion on health which is largely if not totally based in facts as we know them now, not information, per se. I don’t say expertise cannot be had, I merely point out that most “experts” don’t ask questions. Dr. Gregor is not one of those people. I believe he is asking every day about everything. That’s why he is a real expert. I seriously hope people aren’t coming on here regularly in order to just find flaws in his progressive and generous message. He can learn new info today, and change his recommendations. Ever hear a war “expert” like a general come back and say: “yeah, that was a bad idea, we should have tried diplomacy”. This is what I am talking about. It may have happened, a few times but largely, not. Its because being resolute is held in high esteem as a facet of leadership. Its just another way of squeezing questions out of the mix, and is the reason our society is as it is here in the US.

            Im saying that sounding and being resolute, is not the same as expertise, and there was a comment on here about “conspiracists” who bother questioning “experts” who are doctors so they must be mad and should just go sit at the little conspiracist table etc..

            I am very sorry to say that all doctors are not, capital not, experts, and as you’ve likely said many times in your posts, just toe the line, being ill informed.

            Can we as an american society get to a place where we question more? Can our egos take it?

            Ha was just thinking that we here may be conspiracy theorists since we do actually have special knowledge that most dont, merely by having a listen to Dr. Greger. its ironic. I will go sit at that little table anytime. :)

      2. Reality bites,

        That is an excellent point.

        Some of them do it for other reasons. Monetized websites, for instance.

        It is the concept that the experts are lying or naive and that the theorists’ are the real experts who have special insider information.

  3. Can I just sit here and point out that Dr. Greger removed himself from the video and went back to the old format?

    Thank you, Dr. Greger. I have enjoyed watching you, but I do learn more when your videos are in this format.

    I will miss seeing some of your expressions but I will not miss the put-downs in the comment section.

    1. I agree Deb. Returning to the old video format without Dr Gregor visible is so much more effective and so much easier to follow. Thank you Dr Gregor!

    2. I come here for carefully researched facts, and I also appreciate that the old format allows me to better focus on the papers.

      What I am concerned about is that Dr. Greger is dedicating his book to someone who hastily spread falsehood.

      (At 1:10, the video shows Dr. Li actually told people “7 SARS cases confirmed at Huanan Seafood Market”. Dr. Greger then said SARS stands for Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome seventeen years earlier. This means Dr. Li really did make a false statement.)

      I wish Dr. Greger would continue to focus on carefully researched facts, and not be distracted by hasty headline news.

      1. ‘Dr. Li actually told people “7 SARS cases confirmed at Huanan Seafood Market”. Dr. Greger then said SARS stands for Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome seventeen years earlier. This means Dr. Li really did make a false statement.

        The term covid-19 wasn’t devised until some time later and ‘a rose by any other name’ etc SARS/ARDS can be caused by various viruses and some other factors. How you can conclude from the above and Dr Greger’s video that Dr Li made a false statement is beyond me. Perhaps you could explain your reasoning.

        1. Most scientists do agree that Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS) is not the same as Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS).

          They seem to be similar, but the biological causations and mechanisms of the disease may be very different.

          1. Yes (although some think they are two sides of the same coin) but if the people actually had SARS caused by covid-19, how was his statement false?

        2. Suppose on 12/30 you saw: “7 SARS cases confirmed at Huanan Seafood Market.”

          How would you have interpreted it?

          This is Dr. Greger’s exact interpretation: “SARS stands for Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, which, seventeen years earlier, had been the first deadly global outbreak triggered by a coronavirus.”

          On 12/30, people did NOT know there was a brand new coronavirus named SARS-CoV-2. Thus, there was no way people would understood Dr. Li’s statement to mean SARS-CoV-2. Instead, on 12/30, people only knew about SARS-CoV-1, and would understood Dr. Li’s statement to mean the SARS from 2003.

          Those 7 confirmed cases were infected with SARS-CoV-2, not SARS-CoV-1. So Dr. Li’s statement was false.

          1. That reasoning is beyond me. To my knowledge, Dr Li never said they had SARS caused by civid 1. He just said they had SARS. Which was a factually accurate statement. .

        3. I have no idea what “SARS” means to you. Perhaps you should tell Dr. Greger that he was wrong when he said:

          “SARS stands for Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, which, seventeen years earlier, had been the first deadly global outbreak triggered by a coronavirus.”

          That’s certainly how on 12/30 Dr. Li and people who read his statement understood “SARS”.

      2. I wish Dr Gregor would stay in his lane teaching lifestyle medicine and stop trying to act like he has advanced degrees in virology or public health just to promote his next book. People need info to stay healthy but far too many ‘doctors’ are filling the air with so much repetitive chatter that the people that NEED listen to are being drowned out. And not once has any of these self aggrandizing physicians even tried to direct people to the sources that matter to their health the most, their county public health website and officials that know specifics to their area.

        1. Reality bites,

          If you go back in Dr. Greger’s career, you can look at articles from him in virology magazine and you can read his books on Bird Flu and surviving pandemics from back then.

          That was his focus for many years. He is still writing articles for virology journals. I can’t find the link for the current article, but here are some older ones.

          https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/1743-422X-4-38

          https://www.longdom.org/conference-abstracts-files/1948-5964.S1.8-1.pdf

        2. I have some sympathy with your position. However, public health has long been an interest of his. This includes a number of articles published on the health risks to humans from zoonotic diseases arising in part or in full from animal agriculture eg
          https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(08)00898-2/fulltext

          It is quite wrong to assert that Greger has no expertise in this field.

          As for county public health, this is where you are employed I take it. Personally, I have more confidence in the WHO and national health authorities than in local county officials. No offence but I suspect that the latter may be a mixed bag.

    3. Dr. Greger’s Adjusts His Video Presence

      Deb– To your comment about Dr. Greger’s “disappearance” from the regular stream of video segments

      Dr. Greger seems to deliver more presence without use of a moving image. With only a verbal (and static image) delivery, he actually simplifies the stream of content, which becomes easier to follow.

      That may be because moving images of the narrator take far too much of our perceptual “bandwidth”, competing with very detailed information. This could explain why parents feel the urge to tell their children to study without the top 40 (and/or wifi screen) playing in the background.

      What I like about Dr. Greger is his willingness to “put it to the test”, and experiment. The much improved website navigation and organization of content also shows a staff hard at work with the same idea of improvement.

      * To which I add my customary appeal– please adjust the audio volume of the opening and closing signature themes. They are much too loud for Dr. Greger’s conversational style delivery and audio level. The opening and closing theme volume should match the narrative audio, so viewers will not need to adjust their volume knobs (virtual or real).

  4. Wait a minute. The video shows at 1:10 that Dr. Li actually told people “7 SARS cases confirmed at Huanan Seafood Market”.

    That’s indeed false statement, because we all know it’s NOT the Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome seventeen years earlier. Rather, it’s a brand new coronavirus.

    We come here for carefully researched facts. I am sorry Dr. Li died, but I don’t understand why Dr. Greger would dedicate his book to someone who hastily spread falsehood.

    1. Moreover, the first identified case in Wuhan, in december, was totally unrelated, epidemiologically, to the Wet Market…

      Wuhan seafood market may not be source of novel virus spreading globally
      https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally

      Some false claims about the origin of the virus from wet markets have circulated onto the internet since the beginning of the pandemy and it seems to arrange people who do not want to look into the true origins of the virus.

      Some vegan social networks also have seen into the pandemics an opportunity to ask for the closure of wet markets by associating them without nay proof whatsoever to the novel coronavirus 2019….

      One hopes that the second episode from this COVID-19 serie is not also diffusing those unfounded informations…

      1. ab,

        “Moreover, the first identified case in Wuhan, in december, was totally unrelated, epidemiologically, to the Wet Market…”

        Yes, because it originated in the Wuhan lab. What’s the chance, out of the thousands of cities in the world, that a pandemic virus originates in one of the few cities that have a lab messing around with bat viruses?

        1. Julie, it is most likely a pure coïncidence. Bats are everywhere in the world. There are many coronavirus bats in Europe too, northern as well as southern Europe, so why do media are doing like if bats only exist in China and coronavirus are only present into China’s bats ?

          The bias is because China is ahead into the research of viruses in bats and is actually doing research, unlike many other countries in the world.

          But one suspects a strong racial prejudice against China (and Orient in a general manner) in many of the occidental media and scientific journals.

          May one recall that in october 2019, thousands of people around the world gather in China for the Military World Games. Such events are the best place to start a global pandemy, after infected people return home into their own countries.

    2. It seems you have very high expectations for an ophthalmologist who did his best to warn his colleagues about a brand new disease that resembled a former disease.We certainly wouldn’t have wanted him to have waited to do his own further study or to send samples to the epidemiologists before sending out that notice. NO, it turned out the disease was not what it initially appeared,but I’d not cast aspersions on the good doctor for promptly highlighting others in a method clearly designed to alert of the danger. Spreading falsehood -or just spreading a warning which of course needed to be studied with updating to determine that this condition only resembled but was not SARS. As a nurse I’d add that the fact that Dr. Li personally faced government harassment for trying to warn others makes him admirable to many of us.

    3. Truth Seeker/ab

      Bizarre reasoning.

      You two really need to fall back on knowledge and logic instead of adding up 2+2 and concluding that the answer is 97.

      1. I should add that there is a difference between the disease and the virus causing the disease, which can give rise to confusion

        ‘Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, shortened to SARS-CoV-2, is actually the virus that causes COVID-19 (the disease). As the name indicates, this virus is genetically related to the SARS-associated coronavirus (SARS-CoV) that caused an outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in 2002-2003, however it is not the same virus.

        How do all these terms fit together? “Coronavirus” is a generic term that includes a large family of viruses, similar to saying someone has the flu. SARS-CoV-2 is a specific virus that can cause COVID-19, a disease. As WHO explains, this is similar to differentiating HIV and AIDS — HIV is a virus that causes AIDS. Outlined on their website, “People often know the name of a disease, such as measles, but not the name of the virus that causes it (rubeola).”
        https://www.cleanlink.com/news/article/SARS-CoV-2-and-COVID-19-Whats-The-Difference–25264

        1. Your quoted statement is correct: “As the name indicates, this virus is genetically related to the SARS-associated coronavirus (SARS-CoV) that caused an outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in 2002-2003, however it is not the same virus.”

          Yes, SARS stands for severe acute respiratory syndrome in 2002-2003.

          Yes, SARS-CoV is NOT the same SARS-CoV-2.

          On 12/30, people did NOT know about Covid-19 NOR SARS-CoV-2.

          On 12/30, people knew that SARS stands for severe acute respiratory syndrome in 2002-2003.

          Dr. Li told people 7 SARS cases were confirmed. However, the 7 cases in fact had a brand new disease (later named Covid-19) caused by a brand new virus (later named SARS-CoV-2).

      2. Personally, I never said that the virus is brand new. The virus is quite old and has evolved until its actual form. It is called novel coronavirus, because it is a virus that is associated with a novel form of disease. But the virus is not new.

        Viruses don’t spontaneously create themselves into the environment. Claiming so is promoting creationism, not science and evolutionary biology.

        1. Viruses evolve into new forms just like other creatures. They just do it very much more quickly than, say, different breeds of dogs.

    4. TruthSeeker–
      The latest coronavirus is not the one of more than a decade earlier, but Dr. Li addressed the sample (properly) as one of the SARS group.

      It is widely understood as Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) Coronavirus 2 of the genus Betacoronavirus.

      Dr. Greger explains the nomenclature in his first videos on COVID-19.

  5. Investigative reporter Joshua Phillips has a harrowing documentary about origin of the Covid-19 virus; just search you tube for ‘Joshua Phillips, origin of coronavirus’

    1. One of the biggest motivators of people spreading these conspiracy theories is the idea of them having ‘special’ knowlege. So it does not matter if you are an expert in that field, they know more than you because ‘you are part of the conspiracy’ or you’re just an idiot to them. That is called illusory superiority or illusory knowledge and it is very very alluring to certain people.
      Narcissism is a factor behind this. When people spread conspiracy theories, they get a sense of satisfaction out of it. They feel like they are special. So sometimes the people perpetuating this are doing it for their own gratification but at a long term cost to public understanding of science and medicine and ultimately sometimes to public health.

      1. jazzBass,

        The allcaps NOT is about not wearing the types of masks the healthcare professionals require because of them running short of those types of masks.

        I believe Dr. Greger said a sentence like, “Until there are enough of them.”

        But the CDC is not quite as optimistic about the health care workers ever getting enough masks again.

        In truth, the health care professionals would like to have a new mask between every patient, and that never happens during a pandemic.

        It seems like all of the governments and organizations go into a deep denial about what will happen between every pandemic and the hospitals think the states will stock masks and the states think the federal government will stock masks. I am deeply committed to the reality that it will have to be doctors and nurses and every human being from this pandemic forward who have to stock their own masks and that doctors and nurses particularly should all have at least a ten pack and that would have cost them about $10 before the pandemic. No, they still wouldn’t have been able to change masks between each patient, but these people often make 6 figures, which is a lot more than I make and I have 4 high filtration masks and a silver-infused mask and if I can ever buy N100’s again, I will have a pack of 10 at my house and my message to the CDC is that the preppers who bought their masks years ago SHOULD wear them. They tried to get everybody else to listen and they were the ones who were right.

        The ones who hoarded after hearing about a pandemic because they wanted to gouge prices, shame on you.

        1. Deb thanks. I found that reasoning (cloth vs. masks) buried in the CDC Covid strategies literature after you pointed it out.

          So we should not wear masks, and if we have them we should drop them off at nearby hospitals perhaps.

          Wait, shouldnt we have the ability to make, and pay for, and deliver some masks in times of need…since we are the greatest, god blessed, democracy in the world? :)

    1. Masks may be very dangerous for patients infected with the nCoV-2019.

      The virus is mostly present into the nose and the throat and replicates there, so breathing into a mask when being infected may dangerously increase the viral load through the reabsorption of millions of viruses that have been exhaled into the mask microcosm, into the lungs, contributing to the spraed of the disease.

      Masks can be deadly. As a matter of fact, Dr. Li Wenliang, who didn’t seem to have comorbidities as a risk factor, was wearing a double face-mask:

      https://s.france24.com/media/display/6df08bb0-49a8-11ea-a027-005056a98db9/w:1240/p:16×9/0702-AFP%20PHOTO%20%20LI%20WENLIANG.webp

      1. ab,

        I hear where you are coming from and I read those things and have contemplated that versus the study where there were 75% fewer cases when everybody wore masks.

        That man is a special anecdotal case.

        1) He lived in a place where a virus was spreading through community spread before they figured out what it was and he was the one who would have faced more viral load and would have likely faced some of it before he put on the double masks – both on the job and within the community.

        2) One of China’s mutations was far more deadly than the other and he would have been one of the people investigating those types of things.

        3) There are factors like the virus getting on gloves and clothing and shoes and being in the air space where people put things on and take them off and that is a different risk of exposure than the average person walking through a grocery store, but not all of the risk has to do with masks.

        For me, I see the 75% fewer people getting the virus as having a benefit closer to herd immunity and that has to be weighed against any risks of worsening disease.

        Also, we aren’t putting masks on the patients who are symptomatic with it. They are quarantining and are not wearing masks all day in the hospital.

        The advice to people with serious health risks is not “wear a mask” it is “self-isolate” and I know that for a fact.

        I do know younger people who have died who didn’t wear a mask and who didn’t have co-morbidities at all. One was an athlete. But that is where cytokine storms come in and I am not sure wearing a mask makes you more likely to have a cytokine storm or if it hurts your immune system.

        And when they tested the inside of the masks in the study where they had people cough several times, the insides of the masks tested negative for COVID-19. The outside of the masks were covered. And with that, the surgical masks had the virus last longer on the outside than the cloth masks in another study, so the cloth mask advice might be wiser in some ways if everybody wears them because the studies where cloth didn’t help at all was with one layer and most of the masks people are making are 4 or 5 layers, so not having the virus remain as long on the outside of the masks might be helpful.

        I have wished Siri and Alexa had a science community giving answers so I could ask “Is it the electrostatic charge that causes the surgical masks to keep the virus on the outside longer?”

        (Yes, I learned how to give an electrostatic charge but the outside having virus longer caused me to not be so sure I wanted one)

        1. Hey, a medical version of Alexa would be an intern’s friend.

          Hey, Hippocrates, how many people died from COVID-19?

          Long silence.

            1. There is some debate over how effective masks are in curbing the spread of aerosolized particles and that level of efficaciousness will depend on a bunch of factors: what the mask is constructed of, how it’s worn, etc, but there is no serious debate that there is some effectiveness.
              It doesn’t matter whether masks slow the spread of virus particles by 80 percent or 20 percent, because masks are a low-cost way to reduce the broadcast of aerosolized saliva droplets which carry virus particles.
              It’s basically a freebie, in the grand scheme of economic expense and behavior modification, wearing a mask costs us next to nothing.
              Research shows masks aren’t necessary while taking a run outside or going for a walk, because they’re low-risk events, and they’re probably not necessary if proper social distancing is observed.
              What we’re thinking about is reducing large-spread events. The big-ticket items are places where you spend significant amounts of time face-to-face with multiple people in closed spaces: Riding mass transit, in the work place, in a school setting, at social gatherings. You should not be in a movie theater, for instance, without a mask. Or a bar. Or sitting in a doctor’s office or any place that is indoors and has a waiting room.
              There are NO valid arguments that masks are unhelpful, at best, or harmful at worst. This is BS on the order of magnitude of anti-vaccine and flat-earth theories. There is not merit to both sides here.
              Any risks involved in wearing a mask can be easily mitigated by washing them occasionally or disinfecting them between uses.
              These ought to be no-brainers for everyone while the outbreak is still operating at a large scale. Being smart about masks is one of the ways we can keep pushing on the virus.

              1. I am excited just to see a film buff on the site.

                I was thinking that right now with the protests and virus would have been a good time for a Jim Jarmusch Night on Earth or to do an update of After Hours.

        2. Deb,

          The thematic of the protection against the viral infection offered by mask has nothing to do with the thematic of increased viral load in infected patients caused by the wearing of masks.

          Those are two separate medical thematic to not be confounded. The first one is about public health, the second one is about viral respiratory infection care.

          For the first thematic, the viral infection may be reduced by good ventilation of buildings and ionization devices that trap viral particles within the air onto positively charges plates, like already demonstrated into agricultural settings for many types of viruses:

          Ionizing air affects influenza virus infectivity and prevents airborne-transmission
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4477231/

          For the second thematic, the viral load could be reduced if infected patients were not wearing masks and also if their room was well ventilated and sanitized, in conformity with the first thematic.

          1. ab,

            When I am home and alone in my office, I don’t wear any mask at all.

            But we have air conditioning on already and that increases the risk of infection and air conditioning is going to be on at every grocery store and hair salon and Home Depot and every other thing I might go to.

            Masks are what enables us to go out there and still protect each other more.

            For instance, right now, there are shouting protests all over the country and people are angry and loud talking and being outside helps decrease the risk, but there were cases of community spread from outdoor evens, both with COVID-19 and historically with the pandemic of 1918.

            I am not sure where you would want to go publically without wearing them? To a hospital? To a nursing home?

            Restaurants have already had spread.

            Would you want to work at a call center because they have already demonstrated that air conditioning alone causes transmission?

            I am an employer – well my family is and I am the one who bought an air purifier and masks and hand sanitizers and Gojo and UVC lamps and, no, I didn’t do ionizers because of the lung issues of people being in the office with it working.

            But we do use social distancing, particularly during lunch hour when people will not be wearing masks at all. Masks are for when people are close together and we use them for work anyway because we do grinding and other jobs that require them.

            But we have them available and what I will tell you is that people don’t always wash their hands at all and don’t always use hand sanitizer and it is sometimes really hard to tell those things.

            I have fallen away from the extra-long hand washings most days but I do have my silver-infused gloves and I do use hand sanitizers when I remember.

            I am thinking quite a bit about the air conditioning situation and whether my hospital-grade air purifier will win or not.

              1. There is no need to be Albert Einstein in order to understand that if, as it is already proven, the virus can be transmitted through simple respiration and talking, to wear a mask when one is infected creates a viral microcosm within it which is helping the reabsorption of potenitally thousands of millions of viruses within the body and the lungs, as infected people cough, hyperventilate and breathe loudly within their masks.

                To force infected people to have a mask is like giving to them a death sentence and particularly if they are at risks, like having comorbidities and being older than 60 years old.

                1. AB, albert I am not, so a few stupid quesitons.

                  Are you saying AB, that once you have covid, then you wear a mask you give it to yourself more? (…so now you REALLY have it)

                  Even though you already have it?

                  It means that (comorbidities aside, and with no mask wearing) the people dying are ones who hung around, say, 10 people who had it, but ones who dont die only hung around with, say, 2 people who had it?

                  In other words, covid 19 guy walks into a telephone booth (nevermind there are no telephone booths) with no outside air coming in, hangs out for an hour (long conversation to life insurance guy), then he leaves. Then I walk in shut the door, and I will get it worse, the longer I stay in there? Its not how long it takes to get it, but how much of it you get when you get it?

                  Are tests are showing “hey this guy had more contact with more of the virus” (as opposed to “hey this guy has an advanced state of this virus”)?

                  1. Hi jazzBass,

                    The virus replication takes place mainly in the nose and the throat. Therefore, when a COVID+ person wears a mask, it creates a viral microcosm within which he/she breathes, coughes and potentially hyperventilates.

                    It is like a viral storm reentering into the airways and back into the lungs. What one wants is to reduce the viral load not to increase it because of wearing a mask.

                    Abolishing cholesterol from the diet is a first way to reduce the endogenous viral load, by making it harder for viruses to get into the cells. Not wearing a mask is second way to reduce the viral load by avoiding breathing the viral storm that one creates into it.

                    For indoors places, good ventilation is one way to reduce the viral exposure, then, there exists specific devices that can aspire and negatively ionize the air, including the viruses, which are then collected into a positively charged plates. It is very efficient to reduce airborne transmission:

                    https://www.nature.com/articles/srep11431

                    Non COVID people can also wear a mask as a preventive means.

            1. The failure to understand the main medical concern about the wearing of masks which is that masks can seriously and dangerously aggravate the condition of people with a viral respiratory infection goes beyond my understanding.

              There is apparently a global taboo about it and an unspoken consensus that what matters the most is not the health of infected people, but to protect people that have not yet been contaminated from being infected. So for them, it is not sufficient to protect themselves with masks, they want to give masks to sick people that will cause serious harms to them, just to be sure to have extra protection for themselves and at the detriment of the health of infected people.

              This is the total antithesis of medecine which is about taking care of actually sick people, not about protecting people from a risk of infection.

              Deb, one is not talking about your casual ionizer which ionizes the air and then reject it as is. One is talking of a scientific reports in Nature scientific reports journal about a specific ionizer that negatively charges air particle which then goes onto a positevely charged plate, and that action traps the negatively charged viral particles, effectively removing viruses from the air.

    2. Deb,
      The mask data is interesting. What I’m doing a double take on is that U.S. virus deaths are 100K+ while the world rate is not even 3X that. There are lots of countries more populated than the U.S. Three U.S. populations would fit inside of India or China. Does this point to poor disease response and / or increased morbidity in the U.S.?

      1. Dan C.,

        Watch this video

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxAaO2rsdIs&t=97s

        In my opinion:

        Some of those countries have dealt with pandemics more recently.

        Their residents already wear masks even for flu season and to deal with air pollution and allergies and it is socially acceptable and masks are readily available.

        New York waited until there were over 10,000 cases to close down.

        That is probably our biggest factor.

        We didn’t close our borders.

        We did a political process rather than respond quickly and start containing things.

        We don’t have a history of wearing masks and aren’t good at social distancing.

        People like those in Sweden do social distancing almost all of the time. Plus, people tend to live alone (They can afford to live alone starting at age 18. Americans tend to need roommates, particularly in cities like NY and they tend to have small rooms and horrible ventilation.)

        Sweden’s bus stop before and after COVID-19 https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/b122be85-07dd-42fe-b5dc-06ef0a8828d8-1.jpg?quality=75&strip=all&w=450&h=534&crop=1

        We aren’t already used to social distancing.

        Our doctors didn’t have PPE. China bought the storehouses of masks all around the world before announcing the virus. Plus, they make a lot of the masks in the country. Where we shut off flights from the place that makes a lot of our masks.

        People don’t use good hygiene here. Less than 50% of our people brush their teeth twice per day. Our average citizen washes their hands for 5 seconds or less. Turn the water on for a second or two and then off and shake them off rather than drying is what I see.

        We value freedom and Chinese government values control over its citizens.

        We eat Westernized meals and have more obesity.

        We have a disenfranchised black community and many of them are homeless or ex-cons or under-employed and won’t have access even to running water.

        We had more flu cases in cities like NY. Near record-levels versus the UK where they had below normal flu cases.

        We are less disciplined. Like I said, I have stopped singing Happy Birthday and I try to remember using hand sanitizer, but I do have silver-infused gloves as a back-up and I see those in front of me and suddenly remember that I didn’t sing Happy Birthday and didn’t use hand sanitizer and they are the 3rd back-up system I have.

        We are LOUD talkers They are quiet talkers. If you have ever traveled through places where they are quiet talkers you can always locate an American without even turning around.

        Our vulnerable population tends to be in nursing homes – rather than being taken care of by family members and the minority community vulnerable members tend to be essential workers and essential workers were 95% of the cases in one study.

        Our elderly are being fed ridiculous food and our minority populations are in food deserts where they can’t even buy fruits or vegetables and where every convenience store has cheap junk food for meals.

        Our vulnerable populations don’t have money or pantries and we ran out of toilet paper, soap, hand sanitizer, bleach, lysol and clorox spray, and any paper product possible. They also don’t have the internet to do the research and many are undereducated. 75% of foster kids never learn to read. 60% of them end up prisoners or homeless. We have a culture that imprisoned a lot of minorities for things like pot or vagrancy and I am not doing a political conversation but prisons is one place that is hard hit.

        We don’t care about our elderly. NY, even with an empty Mercy ship and empty hotels didn’t find a place to put the COVID-19 positive testing elderly and they refused to let nursing homes turn the patients down and didn’t say whether the patients had it and the nursing homes didn’t have PPE’s until months into this. They were not the first or second or third wave of who got PPE’s.

        Honestly, they probably morphine a lot of the miserable elderly patients up is what my conspiracy theory was – mainly, the elderly couldn’t get visitors and had a higher risk of dying and they already do morphine them up when they want to go and a lot of them might have been miserable enough to want to go.

        1. I would add that the people in the USA are more materialistic and consumerism rules.

          People here would likely go shopping every day.

          And a whole lot of things were open.

          Places like the grocery stores, Home Depot and other building supplies, Walmarts, Target, Kohls, CVS, Walgreens, restaurants for take-out, convenience stores and gas stations, machine shops, construction, on top of medical places and parks and walking paths.

          In France and China and places like Israel, they got big fines if they just “went out” someplace. My friend in France said that they had given out 100’s of thousands of tickets for people being out on the street without permission.

          America values freedom more than safety.

          1. I also suspect that we have much higher population of blacks in our death toll than the cities in China and maybe worse Vitamin D for those populations.

            Plus, the NY hospitals were full of flu patients when it started.

            And China threatened people with a year in jail if they took aspirin to hide their fever and seriously taped their doors and monitored them like a terrifying Big Brother( and they have done things like forced organ donations in the past and that topic came up again at the beginning of this, so you stay home. There were rumors that they burned people alive. Even if they were lies, their population would know they are capable of it.

          2. Deb,
            One morbidity factor that most people in power are afraid of talking about is being overweight! Most Americans are overweight. Therefore when contracting Covid 19 they’re more likely to have severe complications and possibly death.
            In Canada I observed that every time the media posted that someone younger died of Covid 19 and had “no” underlying conditions, I waited for them to post the picture. Every single time, they were quite overweight.
            In our politically correct world no one wants to tell overweight people that it is a morbidity factor for many diseases.

        2. Deb, I liked “from the place that makes a lot of our masks”…. I didnt see that you mentioned som potential root causes of these fractureous ills of US society, and wanted to share that there may be underlying financial and political “comorbidities” you may want to (if you havent) look into on this topic, which would stem from the questions: “Why do we have our hazard mitigation supply chain on such a delicate thread?”, “Why isnt the greatest democracy and most powerful country in the world at the ready to protect its citizens from things that Dr. Gregor made videos on decades ago?” “Could it truly be only and specifically the village idiots’ fault?”

          I say this delicately, but I might want to point you also to a glaring irony, in case it wasnt meant as a joke, which is the comment on control of citizenry (see above), and how we alternatively value freedom (see the rest of your post).

          By that I mean to say, given what we know, the statement is quite ironic. So, you were joking ….right?

    1. Deb ok woops, i saw your later entry about medcram so now I know you just watched saying masks are not called for by CDC. So I guess disregard my earlier post about CDC saying the same thing. “Do Not Wear a Mask intended for medical use”

      1. Yes, jazzBass, they say to let the medical people have the good masks. (And, I say, unless you happen to already have one because the preppers should get to use the things they spent their hard-earned money prepping.) The CDC doesn’t want people hoarding medical masks but people can’t even buy them in this country even on Amazon. So, I like Dr. Greger’s version, until they become more widely available.

  6. You forgot to mention that the virus was taken from a bat and genetically modified in a lab, and released intentionally to further a worldwide pro-pharma agenda based on profits.

    Very disappointed in this site. I used to love Dr. Greger and the fact he was taking on big business, but now I see he has caved to big interests.

    Dr. Greger – what merit does this information have if it is not based on the truth?

    1. You need to distinguish between known facts and speculation. Conspiracy theorists love to speculate. They have a very distant relationship with known facts to the point that they appear positively stand-offish.

      Dr Greger deals in known facts and scientifically founded hypotheses. He does not, thankfully, peddle conspiracy theories.

      1. Tom,

        What I will say is that the conspiracy theorists have made it harder because, technically, it could be from the lab, though, as of today, most experts are still believing it was from the wet market. The labs having ridiculously poor safety measures and not using PPE is what has been pointed to. They have said that their scientists have been scratched and spit at by animals and have interacted with blood and other things and other animals such as bats and pangolin have been near each other in the labs.

        But the experts that I have watched are pointing to genetically that the bat viruses in the lab were not close enough unless they had jumped between animals.

        There are highly credible intelligence experts who have said that the labs can’t be totally ruled out and they are being investigated by intelligence agencies around the world.

        There is not proof. But the lab theory is possible.

        But so is the wet market theory and that is the one the experts outside of China call more likely.

        The wet market theory can’t be 100% proven either.

        1. The wet market theory has been 100% refuted by the discovery of early cases in countries with no wet market (like France) and is the least probable theory ever claimed on the origin of nCoV-2019, whereas the lab theory has also been refuted by genetics studies showing no clear evidence of genetic engineering and the presence of different clades in several parts of the world before the china epidemics.

          Those theories are diversions allowing to not look into animal agriculture which is the source of many viral infections via many ways: viral aerosols near agricultural facilities, direct contamination via contact with animals, cross-animals contamination via animal by-products used into the animal food supply, viral contamination of agricultural fields, where animals feed themselves, with animal and human manures used as so-called “fertilizers”.

      2. There is one legitimate voice with suspicions that I did find but he thinks the lab would have been trying to do an AIDS vaccine and something like poor safety protocols happened.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=durcHyxpFT4

        But other experts have argued against that perspective and honestly, many experts feel that it will be impossible to prove either way unless someone comes forward and says that something happened.

        1. Agreed. I was just objecting to the claim that the lab-origin hypothesis is a clearly and incontrovertibly established fact that only the tools of shadowy powerful vested interests deny.

    2. Ok just an idea…Why not leave out the alienating and dismissive label of “conspiracy theorists”, and simply let it become self evident through questioning? Deb, you yourself said you pleaded with that group to listen to you years ago about masks, but “they wouldnt listen”.

      1. jazzBass,

        I hear what you are saying and I tend to agree that listening is way better than labeling in every area.

        The experts are not finished examining the data and “conspiracy theorists” term is used in situations when people authoritatively say things like, “China was intentionally releasing the virus to get money because they had the vaccine.” when no intelligence agency from any country has said that. The problem is that so much false information has been put out on the internet and if we don’t understand the roots of this, we can’t prevent future pandemics.

        There are genuine groups who are looking at that lab and genuine discussion questioning whether we have the answers is fine.

        People coming here and acting as if they know the answers when their answers are premature at best and then they just throw in a put down of Dr. Greger as if he is naive about these concepts.

        What I do know about Dr. Greger is that if there becomes a consensus that this came from a lab, he will discuss it but the fact that most pandemics didn’t need labs at all, and the fact that he is working to decrease BOTH animal factory farming AND animals being exploited in labs AND exposing the risks associated with eating animal products – he is trying to end future pandemics.

        Even if a lab was working with the animals with these viruses, all of it comes back to the exploitation of these animals and Dr. Greger is trying to help us understand it from many perspectives.

        I don’t even mind people doing the “telephone game” of putting information forward without evidence, but they aren’t presenting it as theory and that adds to the division with China and with the global community.

  7. Hi John Boulos,

    I agree that the virus was taken from a bat and genetically modified in a lab, however I do not agree that it was released intentionally. For 5 days in October 2019 data reveals that traffic was blocked all around the Wuhan lab and no calls made to/from the lab. Maybe it escaped then?
    (at 7:17) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD3ztjqYGbg

    Dr. Greger has the right to his opinion, and I believe we should respect that. Maybe just agree to disagree?

    1. Julie,

      Dr. Holmes who discussed whether that theory could be true said that the RaTG13 bat virus had a level of genomic sequence divergence that would have taken at least 20 years and that it was the RaTG13 that the Wuhan Institute had and that the RaTG13 bat virus was not found within 100 miles from Wuhan and theirs had that much divergence.

      Plus, pangolins have viruses related to SARS-CoV-2.

      The question of whether it started in Wuhan EARLIER than what China acknowledged is a different question but that still doesn’t erase the genomic sequence divergence.

      So, I guess, if two Coronavirus 2 theories diverge in the yellow woods, either you or Dr. Greger is on the Coronavirus Road Less Traveled.

      And, yes I am misquoting a poet who used the word “yellow” and it became a theory that caused me to try to remember how many people died in the Yellow River flood in China and I have no idea how that compares to CoVID-19.

      1. The question is not if it started in Wuhan or in China earlier, because the pandemics probably started in Wuhan in october 2019 during the Military World Games.

        The question is from which country amongst the country participating to those Games do the virus, already in human beings, originate.

        Then, the question is to undertand how the contamination chain into this country started. If the virus comes from cat-woman zoonosis, where did the cat food was coming from, etc.

      2. We get several different flu viruses every year it seems. That’s why flu vaccines change from year to year. There are also different types and subtypes of HIV leading to AIDS.

        There seems no obvious reason why there shouldn’t be several covid viruses circulating at the same time either, which could cause SARS/ARDS/ALI

  8. For people who are wondering if it is safe to gather outside, I found this video from VOX interesting.

    They mentioned the study in China, where out of 318 different outbreaks of COVID-19, only 1 was from an outdoor gathering.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6QwnzbRUyA

    For those who have high vulnerability, I will add that we will know the answer more definitively next month.

    We have already had a Memorial Day weekend and we have these protests.

    A month from now, we will know a whole lot about outdoor risks of spreading of COVID-19.

    I am supposed to get together with my 90-year old relatives and I will say that I have intentionally waited to do it outside and I will wait a few more days to see the spike potential risk.

    I think it is safe but I do know that having the definitive answer will make me feel better and I feel like the Memorial Day spikes will be a really good answer. The protest gatherings may tell me whether it will be safe to let people have heated debates at the gatherings.

  9. The “Everything-old-is-new-again” format is much better for understanding. But reading that a lot of people actually liked the new way with DR Greger in the frame, I would suggest a good compromise would have him in the frame at the beginning… sort of an introduction to the topic, then again at the end of the video to end it.

    Also, noticed he slowed down his speech. For older folk that is better… for younger ones, it is too deliberate and slow. How about offering two versions… one at this speed and then, a simple speed-up of the same video for those who think quicker? Presumably the speed up can be done without changing the pitch so the voice should still sound about the same.

    1. Lonie,

      Smiling.

      I love that you said that.

      Though I think he is safe staying in the old format for a while without any protests.

      This format is easier to learn from and right now JUST eggs have sold 40 million plant-eggs and Beyond burger is taking the industry by storm and is about to drop their prices for the meat-lovers who are about to face sticker shock.

      There are a whole bunch of newbies coming in and having them understand things is probably more important right now than any other time because of how successful the plant-based movement suddenly is. (And, yes, the fact that transition food no longer identifies themselves as vegan and they have moved to calling themselves plant-based is a sign of how big the movement already is. I went to a grocery store that is really not hip in any way. It is the very last grocery store on my invisible list but when I walked through they had so many transition foods labeled “Plant-Based” – ones that I hadn’t even heard of and I was doing transition foods for decades because of my meat allergies.

      The times they are a-changing. Cha-ching.

      1. This format is easier to learn from and right now JUST eggs have sold 40 million plant-eggs and Beyond burger is taking the industry by storm and is about to drop their prices for the meat-lovers who are about to face sticker shock.

        The times they are a-changing. Cha-ching.
        —————————————————————————————————–
        Indeed they are changing Deb. I’ve said it before and will say it again… CoVid-19 may end up saving more life-years than it cuts short, due to healthier changes.

        1. Ive tried the substitutes for meat and honestly they do just okay… and so I do partake occasionally, but too, they are quite high in fat, which, aside from animal protiens, is a huge part of the culprit in animal products, no?

          I dont know, its like that annoying vaping. wtf?

      2. Though I think he is safe staying in the old format for a while without any protests.
        ———————————————————————————————
        Not sure what you meant by “safe” but that could be the salient point. That is, if this is the new batch of videos, then they may have been made during lock down times, making it impossible to be in close proximity of a camera crew in order to shoot live, even in front of a green screen. One can always over-dub the audio at home-alone. ‘-)

  10. I am sorry, this is one of the worst videos that’s confusing right from the start.

    I get that we all agree the Chinese government is bad, and Dr. Li is good. Thus, my understanding is that the video starts by saying it was wrong for the bad Chinese government to accuse the good Dr. Li of making false statement.

    But then at 1:10, the video shows Dr. Li actually told people “7 SARS cases confirmed at Huanan Seafood Market”. Dr. Greger then said SARS stands for Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome seventeen years earlier.

    But that would mean the good Dr. Li really did make a false statement, and the bad Chinese government was not wrong to accuse Dr. Li!

    One cannot have it both ways. These two statements cannot both be true at the same time: a) Dr. Li did not make a false statement, and b) SARS seventeen years earlier is not the same as Covid today.

    So which of the two statements is wrong? I have to say that Dr. Li did make a false statement. But then why would Dr. Greger dedicate his book to someone who hastily made a false statement to the public?

      1. Lonie,

        You did it simpler than I did.

        Below is the quagmire that I found.

        I think SARS used to be the description of what happened to the lungs pre-SARS the pandemic or was that an epidemic.

        Then, the nice Chinese doctor went back to the original way SARS was used and the people who named diseases agreed with him enough to put a 2 after it, but the WHO thought that SARS 1 which was not the first use of SARS would be confusing so they wouldn’t say it because they didn’t want the people who lived through SARS1 to be confused. The people who were old enough to live through H1N1 and thought they went through SARS 1 were probably already confused.

        I think SARS 1 was not the best name.

        1. Plus, I am a bit fascinated that the WHO was worried that people would be worried by the name SARS and maybe take SARS-2 too seriously.

      2. nCov-2019 is communicable. COVID-19 is not. Two very different things.

        nCoV-2019 is necessary for triggering COVID-19, but it is not sufficient.

        The health background of infected people and their dietary habits are also very important factors in the disease initiation and progression, amongst other factors like viral exposition, which is also related to the way of breathing, etc.

      3. So on 12/30, people already knew there was a brand new coronavirus named SARS-CoV-2?

        People also further understood Dr. Li’s statement to mean SARS-CoV-2?

        Or, on 12/30, people only knew about SARS-CoV-1, and understood Dr. Li’s statement to mean the SARS from 2003?

        1. So on 12/30, people already knew there was a brand new coronavirus named SARS-CoV-2?

          People also further understood Dr. Li’s statement to mean SARS-CoV-2?

          Or, on 12/30, people only knew about SARS-CoV-1, and understood Dr. Li’s statement to mean the SARS from 2003?
          ————————————————————————————————————-
          I have no idea what the fine points of the disease origins or descriptions are… that’s for the blamers.

          My interests lie solely in the information like in the article linked to below. Why? because it is the first to finally suggest that the symptoms described fit with what I’ve been experiencing for the past month or more.

          Not only have I (probably) been diagnosed… I have also been given the potential remedy by DR Greger when I read some months ago that blueberries are protective of our blood vessels and which I eat almost every day.

          Please don’t try to discredit the DR that may have pre-emptively saved my life with some of his videos I watched months ago.

          https://www.yahoo.com/news/evidence-suggests-covid-19-may-195153450.html

    1. Truth Seeker,

      Dr. Li didn’t make a false statement.

      The coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 is the pathogen that causes COVID-19. The virus has a close resemblance to SARS-CoV and he was pointing that out and what was being pointed out was that this novel virus caused SARS as being defined as a contagious and sometimes fatal respiratory illness caused by a coronavirus

      Notice that SARS is in both of the names.

      I think you have to give the person a break when both were coronaviruses and both were causing SARS and he is the first to try to figure it out.

    2. To identify truth, I ask everyone to actually go back to 12/30.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic

      People simply didn’t know about the new coronavirus on 12/30. The WHO was notified on 12/31.

      As in the video, coronavirus was known to cause the common cold. The new coronavirus turned out to be more deadly than the common cold, but far less than SARS. The first death did not occur until 1/9. The second on 1/15. On 12/30, the best knowledge was that nobody had died yet. Was it just another common cold?

      But the new coronavirus turned out to be far more transmissible than SARS. With SARS, patients could be easily identified with temperature checks. But the new coronavirus could be transmitted asymptotically. Had China understood the severity, China would not have allowed a banquet with forty thousand families to take place on 1/18. After China understood the severity, China shut down Wuhan for everyone on 1/23 (recall the second death was only 8 days earlier). We had to airlift our citizens out.

      Suppose on 12/30 you saw: “7 SARS cases confirmed at Huanan Seafood Market.”

      How would you have interpreted it?

      This is Dr. Greger’s exact interpretation: “SARS stands for Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, which, seventeen years earlier, had been the first deadly global outbreak triggered by a coronavirus.”

      So I am sorry NO, Dr. Li did NOT tell people about the new coronavirus on 12/30. His statement was patently false.

      1. truth Seeker

        Your reasoning is clearly faulty as is your accusation.

        You refuse to accept that there is a difference between the disease and a particular cause of it.

        1. Why you keep attacking me is beyond me.

          Let me try again:

          Dr. Li told people “7 SARS cases confirmed at Huanan Seafood Market”.

          On 12/30, everyone understood SARS to mean the disease caused by the SARS-CoV-1 virus.
          On 12/30, people did NOT know about the Covid-19 disease, NOR the SARS-CoV-2 virus that caused Covid-19.

          On 12/30, “SARS” meant one thing to the people, and to Dr. Li: “Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome” from 2003.

          This is Dr. Greger’s exact interpretation: “SARS stands for Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, which, seventeen years earlier, had been the first deadly global outbreak triggered by a coronavirus.”

          But for the 7 confirmed cases, their disease was later named Covid-19, and they were infected with the virus later named SARS-CoV-2. They did NOT have “Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome” from 2003, and they did NOT have the SARS-CoV-1 virus.

          Dr. Li did not discover SARS-CoV-2. His statement did not tell people about a brand new coronavirus. His statement told people about “Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome” from 2003. He did not tell people about a brand new disease.

          Dr. Li’s statement was patently false.

  11. I don’t know if I explained it properly.

    I went to the WHO and they called the disease coronavirus disease
    (COVID-19)

    And they called the Virus severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2
    (SARS-CoV-2)

  12. They said that the name was chosen specifically because the virus is genetically related to the coronavirus responsible for the SARS outbreak of 2003.

    It is not identical to SARS1 but it is genetically related and that is what the doctor identified.

  13. Truth Seeker,

    The point you make is that one virus caused SARS and one caused ARDS known as COVID-19 and both are Severe acute respiratory situations and acute respiratory distress situations. I removed syndrome to make it a situation to back it off from the specific disease SARS and COVID-19.

    I looked to see if I could figure out why they called one ARDS and one SARS and I did find an article differentiating.

    One interesting thing I found was that they originally were using the word, “SARS” to describe influenza H1N1 in 1997. So SARS isn’t the first SARS.

    But, yes, they are a confusing bunch.

    But I LOVED this answer:

    http://homepage.vghtpe.gov.tw/~jcma/68/1/1.pdf

    To my knowledge, ALI, ARDS and SARS all imply the
    occurrence of acute lung injury resulting from direct
    or indirect respiratory insult. SARS is a qualitative term
    that does not define the severity of lung injury and
    oxygenation dysfunction, whereas ALI and ARDS are
    quantitative terms that clearly define the severity of
    lung injury and oxygenation dysfunction. Hence,
    coronavirus infection could provoke SARS, but SARS
    is not always characterized by coronavirus infection.

    1. My SARS riddle for people who aren’t confused enough:

      Person with SARS1

      I had SARS1

      Person who had H1N1:

      I had SARS one, too.

      Person with SARS 2:

      So you had both SARS1 and SARS2?

      No, I didn’t have either of those but I had SARS1, too.

      Which is it? Did you have SARS-1 from 2003 or SARS-2 From the current pandemic?

  14. 2017 CDC deaths related to heart disease, cancer (& other morbidities) = 1,864,420

    80 % of these deaths may be related to poor diet = 1,500,000 deaths per year

    For good measure, knock off 1/3 of deaths to get a round number = 1,000,000 deaths per year.

    Per day, this is 2740 deaths. That’s 10 jumbo jet crashes each day, every year.

    What’s my point? This phenomenon is a silent elephant in the room.

    Covid-19 has killed over 100,000 in the U.S. and shut down the economy.

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

    1. The only concern of governments was to not overcharge the hospitals with sick patients. Once they were able to diminish the number of infected people requiring critical cares, they already passed to something else. But there will be many more deaths from COVID-19 in the next ten to twelve months (spread in the duration) than within the first few months of the pandemics. Those will be silent deaths, in the background, as the media and governements will end up talking about other things from now on that the lockdown is ended and that the economy and politics restart as usual.

  15. Wow, the psuedo intelligence on this website is astounding.

    Disease X is the mysterious name given to the very serious threat that unknown viruses pose to human health. Disease X is on a short list of pathogens deemed a top priority for research by the World Health Organization, alongside known killers like SARS and Ebola.

    Each year the WHO updates the list with guidance from experts in all fields of scientific study of which pathogens pose the most threat of causing the next global pandemic. While we’ve seen the impact most of these can have–there have been major pandemics of SARS, Ebola, and Zika in the past 15 years alone–we have no idea what Disease X can do, because we don’t know what Disease X is.

    There are 1.67 million unknown viruses on this planet. Using our best estimates, anywhere between 631,000 and 827,000 of those have the ability to infect people. Scientists currently know of only 263 viruses that can infect people, which means that we know almost nothing about 99.96 percent of potential pandemic threats.

    We know which species are most likely to be carrying Disease X. We know the viral families to which Disease X is most likely to belong and, therefore, which known viruses are likely to be similar. Thanks to our hotspots map of global pandemic risk, we know the parts of the world where Disease X is most likely to make the jump to people.

  16. Please activate these links, since real data and science can undo fear. Putting it another way: Specious rhetoric backed up by data you can drive a truck through can cause unease and fear in a society. Thank you Dr Greger for putting these illuminating videos together with your usual panache.

  17. I thought this article about the company who did the drug test for hydroxychloroquine and the ACE inhibitors was interesting.

    https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/disputed-hydroxychloroquine-study-brings-scrutiny-to-surgisphere-67595

    This is where I become a conspiracy theorist.

    I hadn’t encountered this perspective on the internet. It is hard to get Google or YouTube to be balanced and fair. They are too busy trying to give me maybe what they think I want to hear and they still don’t “get” that I want to hear both sides dispassionately and maybe some of the passion, but not as a source of information, more as a way to understand the culture.

    The thing that bothered me was that I have friends on hydroxychloroquine and I have heard of the malaria drugs, but it seemed like the moment they wanted to trump Trump or maybe had a different drug they wanted to make money, these studies came out and

    Doctors and scientists have been challenging the results, even as the WHO cancelled the studies because of the higher mortality.

    The thing is hydroxychloroquine— has been in use in hospital settings for decades and has been used globally for malaria and had never shown such major negative effects in studies up until this point.

    The part that I am grappling with is why they did a “rather high” proportion of COVID-19 patients in Africa.

    I don’t trust the studies. I don’t trust that they didn’t give it early in the process with zinc. I don’t understand that I already had that concept at the beginning of this pandemic and even just with Zicam and they didn’t do that process.

    Well, it could be that they waited until the virus hurt the heart and then gave it, but the mortality issue not showing up until COVID-19 studies makes me wonder what was going on. It was an inexpensive med that was widely available and instead we have no med at all, except one that barely works.

    Yes, I just am suspicious about it.

    Today was when I finally found other people who were also suspicious and they were doctors and scientists and, yes, that doesn’t mean anything.

    Lack of transparency is what creates conspiracy theories.

    1. Maybe to prevent drugs from coming out so that we would finance the vaccine or some ridiculous thing?

      Now that I found one from that direction, I should be able to find more and see if it leads anywhere.

      1. Deb, most of doctors doing research on COVID-19 are not intelligent. They are doing blind treatments in clinical trials without understanding what they are doing and without understanding the mechanism of the disease as a whole.

        They treat in a reductionist manner symptoms without a global outlook on the disease and its pathogenesis. They are trying random molecules and see the effects, instead of first understanding and then treating on a rational basis and a logical ground encompassing the complexity of the disease.

        But moreover, they believe that pills are superior to natural means and that molecules can end disease, which is advantageous are pills can be patented and marketed. All of that creates high mortality rate and is detrimental to the people who are actually ill and are the guinea pigs of this reductionist way of thinking and treating diseases, while contributing to the prevention of real medecine and real scientific discoveries.

    2. Deb, before treating patients, you have to know what you are doing. Chloroquine is a zinc ionophore and the combination of both increases the citotoxicity of chloroquine which induces cells apoptosis.

      You might want to trigger apoptosis of cancer cells, but the viral infection is not cancer, so you do not want to destroy the endothelial cells with your medications. The endothelium alraedy receives enough insult from increased angiotensin II combined with the viral infection.

      Chloroquine Is a Zinc Ionophore
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4182877/

      What you want is to increase fiber in order to protect angiotensin II-induced injury with short fatty acids, as well as a nutrition that is able to decrease angiotensin II, like bee pollen, which may also have some antiviral properties. Inhaled nasal nitric oxide might complement short fatty acids for reducing the endothelial injury. Then you want to modulate the systemic serotoninergic dysregulation brought about by the viral infection: subpsychedelic doses of tryptamine mushrooms may be a good nutrition therapy for that.

    1. Bee pollen is a plant-based sweetener rich in fibers and other plant compounds found into nectar, mixed with the bee saliva.

      It is like kissing a bee with the tongue with all the benefits of flower phytonutrients.

      1. Bee pollen has serious therapeutic potential on COVID-19 patients. Amongst other therapeutic effects, it can inhibit angiotensin I production, thus consequently diminishing angiotensin II serum levels which are increased parallely to the nCoV-2019 viral load and associated with lung injury.

        Clinical and biochemical indexes from 2019-nCoV infected patients linked to viral loads and lung injury
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7088566/

  18. I’m hoping that there will be a French translation for this video. Thank you Michael and your team of tireless workers for the fantastic contribution of information you make public.

  19. I am very disappointed that Dr. Greger has joined the ongoing chorus of China-bashing in the US which is part of a new cold war against that country started by the political elites in the US who feel threatened by China’s economic rise. This video makes it sound like the Chinese was hiding the illness for a while (Trump’s claim too) whereas the fact is that Chinese authorities alerted WHO about a string of pneumonia-like cases in Wuhan on December 31, when people still had no idea what kind of pathogen was causing it. What happened with Dr. Wenliang is very unfortunate and the local authorities that chastised him have apologized for it. But it seems you just could not resist the urge to follow the jingoistic crowd in the US in bashing China.

    1. it is unfortunate @Dissapointed, i know, hes not perfect i guess. I had a similar reaction when I heard him on a webinar and calling out questions and quickly stated “I cant pronounce that name because its arabic”, and then pronounced spanish and chinese names as best he could… Listen he’s a great man, but too, he’s a dyed in the wool american too.

      Such is american exceptionalism. Its as if we didnt ask china to make all our masks so we could eek out more revenue and profit, and as if we didnt accept the trillions in invesment in our treasuries, etc… (shhhhh, we dont talk about those things in ‘merica…”…ah yes, hello? Yes, I’ll have the beef and broccoli please….No I’ll come and pick it up. Ive got this warmer box I got from Walmart. Does a great job keeping my fried foods hot as hell till I get home and turn on my electronic devices.”)

      1. Dr Greger talks about the first killers in America, but never mention “abortion”… which kills almost the same than cancer and heart disease in America, about more or less 600 000 hundred deaths every year.

        Not that abortion is bad or should be forbidden, it is an essential right for women, but there should be limits that define when abortion is actually the killing of a human individual. After 5-6 weeks, the foetus is already clearly humanoïd and differentiated.

        Preventive and lifestyle measures should be first undertaken in order to avoid the massive and systemic abortion that is going on.

  20. Great video !

    Thank you Dr. Greger.

    One question about one cited study which refers:
    all human viral infection were initially zoonotic in origin.

    What does this mean about pets ?
    I mean I have 2 dogs and 1 cat.
    I had the idea that besides emotional benefits, pets also have health effects for example better functioning of immune system such as lower rates of allergies

  21. DR. GREGER– REQUEST FOR A VIDEO ON VIRUS MUTATION METHODS

    One of the most fascinating creatures on the planet is the lowly virus– so simple, some refuse to call it “alive”. The virus is so tiny, we must use an electron-scanning microscope to visualize it, and so potentially deadly, it brings the world to a crisis in only a few months.

    How do viruses mutate? From research already published, it appears the virus has a ready repertoire of host receptors to which it can attach. Lately, however, we have seen the same virus “borrow” genetic material from other sources, as though working through combinations of a digital lock.

    This is both terrifying in prospect, and hopeful– all in the sense we may develop countermeasures which originate their remedy in the patient, in real-time, by going through exactly the same trial-and-error application of protein sequences.

    1. The problem with Dr Greger is that he doesn’t address the medical “meat” of the issue. Nowhere, there is a mention that cholesterol favors the entry of viruses into the cells, while plenty of studies about it exist.

      He also repeats unfounded claims about the novel coronavirus coming from pangolins and a wet market, whereas it is debunked by many reports. First cases in China do not have any epidemiological link with the wet market, and actually the first probable identified case was in France, before the first identified case in China in november 2019.

      He doesn’t go deep into the subject and repeat the global propaganda that has been served into the mainstream media that do not really read the science.

  22. There is only one kind of freedom and that’s individual liberty. Our lives come from our creator and our liberty comes from our creator. It has nothing to do with government granting it. — Ron Paul

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