Eggs & Breast Cancer

Eggs & Breast Cancer
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How few eggs should we eat to reduce the risk of prostate, ovarian, colon, and breast cancer?

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

This nationwide study of dietary cholesterol intake and cancer concluded that not only may cutting down on cholesterol help “prevent cardiovascular diseases but also may reduce the risk of…cancer…” Therefore: “Limitation of…animal fat and cholesterol is…a favorable public health measure.” But the study didn’t find high cholesterol consumption correlated with all cancers. Yes, a significant association between high cholesterol intake was found for stomach cancer, colon cancer, rectal cancer, pancreatic cancer, lung cancer, breast cancer, kidney cancer, bladder cancer, and a type of bone marrow cancer called non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, but the association was negative for prostate cancer.

If you look at studies on prostate cancer and eggs, though, which are one of the primary sources of cholesterol in the diet, a pooled analysis of 15 prospective cohort studies found that those who ate 25 grams a day or more of eggs, which is like a half an egg a day, versus like less than an egg a week, those averaging that half-egg had a significant 14 percent increased risk of advanced and fatal prostate cancer. They weren’t exactly sure how to explain it, “but eggs contain considerable amounts of choline,” which certain bad bacteria in the gut can turn into toxic TMAO, which I’ve described before.

There also appears to be a dose-response, meaning the more eggs, the more cancer risk. Increasing consumption by five eggs a week may increase the risk of fatal prostate cancer 47 percent, though that’s just for fatal prostate cancer. No relationship was found between eggs and prostate cancer in general; just eggs and the deadly forms. It’s not necessarily the cholesterol, though. Yes, “a large amount of cholesterol [may support] the rapid growth and proliferation” of cancer cells. But there’s also the choline, and the animal protein—all of which may link egg consumption to the risk of breast, ovarian, and prostate cancers.

And then, if you look at prostate cancer progression, meaning men who’ve already been treated for prostate cancer, had a radical prostatectomy to have their whole prostate removed, and are trying to keep the cancer from coming back. If you see what they were eating, a very high intake of eggs—by which they mean nearly an entire egg a day—was associated with the likelihood of recurrence of high-grade disease, meaning an aggressive form of cancer coming back.

Egg consumption is also associated with increased risk of ovarian cancer, where women make their own eggs, something we’ve known for over 15 years now. “Eggs can also be a source of heterocyclic amines [carcinogenic chemicals that] are formed during high temperature frying.” That would be consistent with the bladder cancer data, suggesting fried egg consumption may double cancer risk, but not boiled eggs. The researchers considered the high cholesterol content of eggs, though, to be most plausible explanation for the ovarian cancer link. Eating lots of cholesterol-rich foods may increase the formation of toxic bile acids, which may at least affect colorectal cancer and lung cancer.

There does seem to be a dose-response relationship found for egg consumption and cancers of the gut. Even just a few eggs a week may be associated with a 19 percent greater risk of colorectal cancer, but hit three or more eggs a week, and the increased risk may be as high as 71 percent.

And finally, breast cancer: a significant increase in breast cancer risk once women get up to around five eggs a week. Now this was putting together just all the forward-looking cohort studies. Adding together all the studies doesn’t change the conclusion: “egg consumption [is] associated with increased breast cancer risk.” A single serving of eggs may exceed the old 300mg daily limit by like 40 percent. The latest dietary guidelines actually strengthened their limits on dietary cholesterol, saying forget 300, as recommended by the National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine; we “should eat as little dietary cholesterol as possible.”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Dustin Kirkpatrick. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

This nationwide study of dietary cholesterol intake and cancer concluded that not only may cutting down on cholesterol help “prevent cardiovascular diseases but also may reduce the risk of…cancer…” Therefore: “Limitation of…animal fat and cholesterol is…a favorable public health measure.” But the study didn’t find high cholesterol consumption correlated with all cancers. Yes, a significant association between high cholesterol intake was found for stomach cancer, colon cancer, rectal cancer, pancreatic cancer, lung cancer, breast cancer, kidney cancer, bladder cancer, and a type of bone marrow cancer called non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, but the association was negative for prostate cancer.

If you look at studies on prostate cancer and eggs, though, which are one of the primary sources of cholesterol in the diet, a pooled analysis of 15 prospective cohort studies found that those who ate 25 grams a day or more of eggs, which is like a half an egg a day, versus like less than an egg a week, those averaging that half-egg had a significant 14 percent increased risk of advanced and fatal prostate cancer. They weren’t exactly sure how to explain it, “but eggs contain considerable amounts of choline,” which certain bad bacteria in the gut can turn into toxic TMAO, which I’ve described before.

There also appears to be a dose-response, meaning the more eggs, the more cancer risk. Increasing consumption by five eggs a week may increase the risk of fatal prostate cancer 47 percent, though that’s just for fatal prostate cancer. No relationship was found between eggs and prostate cancer in general; just eggs and the deadly forms. It’s not necessarily the cholesterol, though. Yes, “a large amount of cholesterol [may support] the rapid growth and proliferation” of cancer cells. But there’s also the choline, and the animal protein—all of which may link egg consumption to the risk of breast, ovarian, and prostate cancers.

And then, if you look at prostate cancer progression, meaning men who’ve already been treated for prostate cancer, had a radical prostatectomy to have their whole prostate removed, and are trying to keep the cancer from coming back. If you see what they were eating, a very high intake of eggs—by which they mean nearly an entire egg a day—was associated with the likelihood of recurrence of high-grade disease, meaning an aggressive form of cancer coming back.

Egg consumption is also associated with increased risk of ovarian cancer, where women make their own eggs, something we’ve known for over 15 years now. “Eggs can also be a source of heterocyclic amines [carcinogenic chemicals that] are formed during high temperature frying.” That would be consistent with the bladder cancer data, suggesting fried egg consumption may double cancer risk, but not boiled eggs. The researchers considered the high cholesterol content of eggs, though, to be most plausible explanation for the ovarian cancer link. Eating lots of cholesterol-rich foods may increase the formation of toxic bile acids, which may at least affect colorectal cancer and lung cancer.

There does seem to be a dose-response relationship found for egg consumption and cancers of the gut. Even just a few eggs a week may be associated with a 19 percent greater risk of colorectal cancer, but hit three or more eggs a week, and the increased risk may be as high as 71 percent.

And finally, breast cancer: a significant increase in breast cancer risk once women get up to around five eggs a week. Now this was putting together just all the forward-looking cohort studies. Adding together all the studies doesn’t change the conclusion: “egg consumption [is] associated with increased breast cancer risk.” A single serving of eggs may exceed the old 300mg daily limit by like 40 percent. The latest dietary guidelines actually strengthened their limits on dietary cholesterol, saying forget 300, as recommended by the National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine; we “should eat as little dietary cholesterol as possible.”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Dustin Kirkpatrick. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Doctor's Note

This is part two of a three-part video series. In case you missed the previous video, here it is: Dietary Cholesterol & Cancer. Stay tuned for Oxidized Cholesterol 27HC May Explain 3 Breast Cancer Mysteries.

The video I mentioned is How Our Gut Bacteria Can Use Eggs to Accelerate Cancer. More on TMAO in Carnitine, Choline, Cancer, & Cholesterol: The TMAO Connection.

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

180 responses to “Eggs & Breast Cancer

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      1. It’s always something is historically accurate.

        My friend’s relative was murdered heading into the weekend.

        No suspects.

        Hard to figure out what to be afraid of.

        1. Also, the doctors at my brothers second opinion said that it is Stage 3 cancer, not Stage 1. He switched hospitals because the second opinion was so much more thorough.

      2. Hi, I recently read an article about arugula being beneficial for fatty liver disease. Arugula is high in nitrate and choline. Should there be a distinction between choline from eggs and choline from a healthy green cruciferous vegetable?

        1. If you are Whole a Food Plant Based, you don’t have to worry.

          It isn’t the choline by itself, it is the choline in the presence of bad gut bacteria causing TMAO.

          It didn’t happen in vegans.

        2. Hi I’m a health support volunteer. Thanks for your great question. To put it simply, yes there is a distinction between choline in vegetables and in animal foods. The levels are much lower in plants. And you have to look at the whole package with food. With eggs, you are also getting the cholesterol, damaging animal protein, hormones, harmful gut bacteria . . . With kale you are getting the fiber, the antioxidants, the beneficial gut bacteria . . . You body responds very differently to the two. Dr. Greger addresses that more in this video:
          https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-to-reduce-your-tmao-levels/

          NurseKelly

    1. YR, the article for which you provided a link does not include any references, so it’s tough to evaluate. I always wonder what the sources are of assertions made in articles about diet (as well as other topics). Oftentimes, it’s an echo chamber: One person states something, then it is quoted without attribution ad infinitum.

    2. No it means “less than an egg a week” – a category which can include eg an egg every two weeks or every month perhaps, as well as never.

  1. Are Eggs Working for or Against You? – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5946211/

    Conclusions:
    summarizes the effects of consuming additional cholesterol from eggs on LDL and HDL metabolism in recent clinical studies. Chronic daily egg intake does increase LDL-C to a certain extent in individuals classified as hyper-responders. However, LDL-C responses are typically minimal when eggs are consumed during weight loss conditions. Egg intake shifts LDL particles to the less detrimental, large LDL subclass, and does not appear to affect the levels of oxidized LDL. Egg intake also typically increases HDL-C and the concentration of large HDL, especially with weight loss. These changes appear to coincide with improvements in other markers of HDL function as well (e.g., PON1, cholesterol efflux capacity, LCAT). The effect of egg intake on the LDL-C/HDL-C ratio is negligible during weight maintenance and weight loss conditions. The relationship between dietary cholesterol and/or egg intake and CVD risk in diabetics requires further investigation. However, egg intake in the context of insulin resistance and/or diabetes would not be expected to be detrimental due to changes in serum lipids, as serum lipid responses to additional dietary cholesterol are often diminished in clinical studies of insulin-resistant groups compared to leaner, more insulin-sensitive individuals. Overall, recent intervention studies with eggs demonstrate that the additional dietary cholesterol does NOT negatively affect serum lipids, and in some cases, appears to improve lipoprotein particle profiles and HDL functionality.

    Associations of egg consumption with cardiovascular disease in a cohort study of 0.5 million Chinese adults | Heart
    https://heart.bmj.com/content/early/2018/04/17/heartjnl-2017-312651

    eggs slash risk of premature births and depression, research finds – Long Room
    https://www.longroom.com/discussion/1140723/british-hens-eggs-slash-risk-of-premature-births-and-depression-research-finds

        1. And salmonella, Deb. Yuck.

          Remember the Flashback Friday he did back in November where the USDA says you can’t say eggs are nutritious, healthy, good for you, or safe? I posted the link farther down. It’s one of my favorites.

      1. Hello Lisa,

        Raw eggs still contain the cholesterol that you get in cooked eggs and on top of that there is a risk of Salmonella infection with raw eggs, which is best avoided.

        I hope this answers your question,
        Matt

      1. This is an utterly ridiculous assumption. My whole family has cholesteremia, women side that is, with my mom being 90 pds, 5’3, my sister 100 pds. 5’3 and I being 130 pds. being 5’5 puts this idea that weight has anything to do with cholesterol. My great mother was also about 95 pds 5’2 with high cholesterol. I continue to have high cholesterol, even with a bmi of 23. So please don’t assume that just because you have high cholesterol it means you’re fat. I have friends who are over weight by medical standards with no indication they have high cholesterol.

        1. By this same token, I’m allergic to eggs, albeit I have tried to desensitize my immune system over the course of 40 years. It has partially worked, the bonus; not breaking out into a red looking tomato with a burning rash. I can now eat 1-2 eggs a month by taking anti-histamines to stop any minor side effects. So where is my cholesterol coming from, definitely not eating eggs. Also, working out at the gym has no effect on cholesterol. I’ve been a swimmer and avid gym goer since my university days, playing water polo and being into acrobatics, volleyball and ballet. My regular diet consists of mostly fish and vegetables. Still I manage to produce high cholesterol. I have been told to avoid eating avocados, olives, milk, butter, cheese, limits on nuts and definitely no deep fried food. So this eat healthy fat concept goes out the window for people who suffer from over producing cholesterol liver.

        2. BMI is often a poor measure of visceral fat. Visceral fat causes metabolic syndrome which can result in hypercholesterolemia. Then again Familial Hypercholesterolemia is found at a rate as high as 1:250 so it’s not rare. Best to try a WFPB diet first to see if the cholesterol drops. It often does.

          Dr. Ben

          1. Hello Dr. Ben,

            Thank you kindly for reminding me that visceral fat is the culprit for high cholesterol. My response, however, was based on the assumption of being overweight to having high cholesterol. I have been a plant base eater for most of my life, yet about 4 years ago I was hospitalized for a good month and was given chicken, fish and meat to eat because they believed I was emaciated due to being so thin, after a bout of horrible menopausal symptoms that had me hyperventilating, and calling 911 more than I care to remember, they thought I was crazy, and wanted to put me on drugs, which I refused, albeit there was no indication I was malnourished yet, they continued to feed me food I didnt want to eat, and my cholesterol then was borderline, at 203.

            Then after a 2 month checkup my cholesterol went through the roof, at 298, where I gained a good 8 more pounds at 139, which, of course, made me feel bloated and made my blood pressure drop way below 100, which made me think I was a walking time bomb ready to drop dead. My LDL had since come down and so had my total cholesterol but it’s still high even on a plant base diet at 240.

            I was recently diagnosed with estrogenic uterine cancer, I had been eating plant based for some time and been pretty weak, when I told this to my oncologist he indicated I needed to add extra protein to my diet due to amount of blood I had loss before having a large mass removed from my uterus 4 weeks prior to seeing him. He’s also a research oncologist who explained to me that I needed to be a bit more healthy than my previous lab workup, which indicated I was below borderline on almost every test given. He explained that the science has shown that women who were weak after an operation had poor outcomes of recovery. Since eating meat, and albeit my cholesterol has yet to be checked, I am feeling a lot stronger, more energetic with my recent lab work showing my blood levels were slightly up a good 15%. Cbc, hemocrit, white/red, iron, etc. After my next operation and radiation therapy I’ll revert back to my plant base diet.

            Warmest Regards, Patra

    1. Greg (AKA Resident Devil’s Advocate)

      Dietary cholesterol clearly does increase blood cholesterol levels. This has been known for at least 50 years if not a hundred and demonstrated in countless trials including metabolic ward studies. What has also been known for a long time is that added dietary cholesterol/egg has little or no effect when baseline dietary cholesterol is already high as it is in the case of average Americans and other Westerners. This is why recent decades have seen floods of highly publicised industry funded studies that find no or little effect on blood cholesterol levels of dietary cholesterol. Choose your test subjects and their diets wisely and you pretty much know beforehand what the results will be. Guess which studies the egg industry likes to fund? There have been so many widely published such trials that it is now common wisdom that dietary cholesterol does not affect blood cholesterol levels even among some professionals who ought to know better.

      Nobody asks why the older independent trials found that dietary cholesterol increased blood cholesterol but modern industry funded trials don’t Also very strange is the fact that the people you quote never ever mention those trials where people consuming average (US) levels of cholesterol had their dietary cholesterol reduced to near zero In those trials their blood cholesterol levels dropped significantly.

      A 1992 meta analysis and review of the effect of dietary cholesterol on blood cholesterol also pretty much provided a primer on how to design studies which obscure the effects of dietary cholesterol on blood cholesterol. Perhaps it’s no coincidence that we have seen scores of such studies since then? That whole paper is well worth reading but here is the conclusion:

      ‘Serum cholesterol concentration is clearly increased by added
      dietary cholesterol but the magnitude of predicted change is
      modulated by baseline dietary cholesterol. The greatest response
      is expected when baseline dietary cholesterol is near zero, while
      little, if any, measurable change would be expected once baseline
      dietary cholesterol was > 400-500 mg/d. People desiring maximal reduction ofserum cholesterol by dietary means may have
      to reduce their dietary cholesterol to minimal levels (< 100-150
      mg/d) to observe modest serum cholesterol reductions while
      persons eating a diet relatively rich in cholesterol would be expected to experience little change in serum cholesterol after adding even large amounts ofcholesterol to their diet. Despite mod- est average effects ofdietary cholesterol, there are some individuals who are much more responsive (and others who are not
      responsive). Individual degrees of response to dietary cholesterol
      may be mediated by differences in cholesterol absorption efficiency, neutral sterol excretion, conversion ofhepatic cholesterol
      to bile acids, or modulation of HMG-CoA reductase or other
      key enzymes involved in intracellular cholesterol economy, each
      ultimately resulting in changes of plasma LDL cholesterol con- centration mediated primarily by up- or down-regulation of LDL
      receptors. 13'
      .http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.549.6029&rep=rep1&type=pdf

                1. Nancy, for a short while I called him Mr. F.F. As we know, there are some interesting “f” words out there….some of which might fit him well. :-)

                  But “when all is said and done” and “at the end of the day,” Fumbles suits him the best.

        1. Laughing

          Just a tad sarcastic to actually ever be a moderator.

          Sarcastic ultra-moderating linguistically-focused man of multiple-commentary with big, clumsy fingers standing up against the little fishes who follow big industry shill studies.

          Yes, my brain is not currently firing on all cylinders. Need sleep.

      1. No cholesterol is better than cholesterol.

        But there are still other factors. Transcript from a different Dr. Greger video:

        :But why would animal protein and fat increase cancer risk? Well, as I noted in Bowel Wars, if you eat egg whites, for example, between 5% and 35% of the protein isn’t digested, isn’t absorbed, and ends up in the colon, where it undergoes a process called putrefaction.

        When animal protein putrefies in the gut, it can lead to the production of the rotten egg gas, hydrogen sulfide, which, over and above its objectionable odor, can produce changes that increase cancer risk. Putrefying protein also produces ammonia.

        Over a lifetime on a standard Western diet, the bacteria in our colon may release the amount of ammonia found in a thousand gallons of Windex. At concentrations found day-to-day inside the colon on usual Western diets, ammonia destroys cells, alters DNA synthesis, increases cellular proliferation, may increase virus infections, favors the growth of cancerous cells, and evidently increases virus infections for a second time. It’s the products of protein and fat digestion that are to blame, such that you can double ammonia concentration in the colon by eating a lot of meat.

        But put people on a plant-based diet and within just one week, the enzyme activity that creates the ammonia in the colon drops like a rock.

        Other bacterial enzymes are affected as well. Remember how broccoli-family vegetables can boost detoxifying enzymes in the liver? These so-called phase 2 enzymes, UDP-glucuronosyltransferases, detoxify drugs and chemicals by applying a chemical straightjacket, here shown in red, deactivating the date rape drug GHB, or taking the carcinogens in meat, like benzopyrene, and rendering them harmless before dumping them back into the intestine for disposal. But if our liver detoxifies it, why is benzopyrene in meat still associated with rectal cancer? Well, certain bacteria in our gut contain the opposite enzyme, a “toxifying” enzyme that removes the straightjacket and frees the carcinogen to wreak a last bit of havoc before it leaves the body.

        But, within one week of eating plant-based, we can drop that enzyme activity in our colon by about 30%. But, this was with a raw, “extreme” vegan diet. What about a regular vegetarian diet? Compared to a pound-of-meat-a-day diet, those placed on a meat-free diet for a month experienced a 70% drop in “toxifying” activity. This, in turn, may raise the amount of substances, such as carcinogens, within the colon. And long-time vegetarians exhibit just a fraction of carcinogen-releasing activity compared to those on a standard American diet.

        So this may all help explain the increased risk in the United States. Researchers put it to the test by taking biopsies from the lining of the colons of Americans versus Africans, to measure proliferation rates—how fast the cells are dividing, a marker for increased cancer risk—and decreased cancer survival. This is what they found: the black dots denote proliferating cells, which we can see throughout the colons of Caucasian-Americans and African-Americans, but only a few were seen in the African biopsies. They had dramatically lower proliferation rates.”

      2. Hi I’m a RN health support volunteer. The egg white certainly has less of the fat and cholesterol. However, animal protein has actually been shown to have harm.
        https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-effect-of-animal-protein-on-stress-hormones-testosterone-and-pregnancy/
        So even egg whites and the leanest meats, are not the best for us. Egg whites can also have hormones, choline, and other less than beneficial things for us.
        Dr. Greger often says, everything you eat can be a “lost opportunity” Instead of egg whites, you could be spending that time and those calories on something really truly beneficial for you- lentils, greens, berries . . . the “green light” foods.

        NurseKelly

  2. I am bewildered by friends on the keto diet who assure me that their cholesterol levels are in line with guidelines and my question is whether your discussion above with respect to the negative risks of consuming eggs could be consistent with simultaneously, low cholesterol levels?

      1. Dr. Atkins slipped and fell on ice. He did NOT have a heart attack. If you did even a modicum of research you would know that. Stop slandering this man.

        1. Lara

          Perhaps English isn’t your first language but there is a difference between slander and libel.

          Also, don’t you think that you might be a bit naive in uncritically accepting the story put out by the heir to Atkins’ vast fortune and business empire? She refused to allow an autopsy to be performed and vigorously attempted to suppress the release of the medical exainer’s report However a copy did apparently make its way out to the public in 2004

          ‘The latest twist is the publication in The Wall Street Journal on Tuesday of details from Dr. Atkins’s confidential medical report. The report concludes that Dr. Atkins, 72, had a history of heart attack and congestive heart failure and notes that he weighed 258 pounds at death.’
          https://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/11/nyregion/just-what-killed-the-diet-doctor-and-what-keeps-the-issue-alive.html

          Ruours continue to persist that he fell and hit his head because he had had another heart attack – but we will probably never know for sure because his widow and heir adamantly refused to allow an autoopsy Cynics would say that the story told by the the Atkins Diet empire was cynically designed to protect profits After all, why kill the goose that lays the golden egg?

          1. You would think his widow would want an autopsy if he really did die from a bad bang on the head.

            Just my opinion, but lack of autopsy smacks of cover-up to keep real cause of death hidden.

      2. While he did not die of heart failure, he did suffer from heart disease and hypertension. I recall learning in nutrition courses in college that one does not want to keep the body in ketosis for a long period of time, but I’m not aware of any studies that have born that out.

    1. “Cholesterol levels are in line with guidelines” does not imply low cholesterol as the guidelines are overly lax as Dr. Greger has discussed many times in various places.

      1. Dr Greger did an Atkins website and it talks about how everybody’s cholesterol drops while they are losing weight, and I read it a long time ago, but their cholesterol drops in the beginning, then suddenly shoots up when they stop losing weight. I think that was how it worked. His Atkins site explains it.

    2. Some people have genetically low cholesterol. In some cases also keto dieters will lose weight at least initially and this drives cholesterol down It’s worth bearing in mind too that a variety of things affect cholesterol levels including refined carbohydrates – avoiding refined carbohydrates,losing weight and commencing an exercise regime may counterblance the cholesterol raising effects of high saturated fat intake.

      Note also that if their keto diet is high in PUFAs and MUFAs not just SFAs, this may also help control cholesterol levels

  3. Eggs are also one of the main reason vegetarians have a reputation for stinking up a restroom. Sure they eat less meat, but many eat excessive amounts of eggs and dairy products to make up for it. I was expecting odor changes when I went WFPB, and if anything it became much milder than when eating the average American diet. I also notice that eating less fats makes, the clean-up paperwork a breeze.

    1. “I also notice that eating less fats makes, the clean-up paperwork a breeze.”
      – – – —

      If by paperwork you mean terlit paper, yes, you’ve rhapsodized about your no-longer stenchy bathroom visits in an earlier thread. :-)

  4. PROSTATE QUESTION:

    What foods have been shown to actually shrink benign prostate hyperplasia?

    (saw palmetto? pumpkin seeds? pygeum? others?)

    1. Try consumelab.com for reviews under prostate supplements to get an overview of the studies. There are studies indicating Saw Palmetto and beta sitosterol can shrink the inner lining but not the overall size but the evidence is weak. I think none of them shrink the overall size, at least consumerlab does not mention any. On the other hand, most studies of beta sitosterol at a low dose of ~100 mg/d reported significant improvement in symptoms. Pygeum has also been shown helpful in relieving symptoms.

        1. Maybe so but I wonder what their rebuttal would be. In any event, they provide a cogent overviews of supplement studies including hot links to the medical studies that have nothing to do with evaluating particular brands.
          Who else does that except for the Linus Pauling Institute? But the latter does not cover supplement studies. So in my mind it is a very valuable source of information. (I usually check the references to the extent possible before making decisions.)

    2. Sydney,

      Dr Greger has a whole series related to prostate. Tomato products is one. But it can’t be on pizza. It can be sauce or juice or paste. It seems like it was a tablespoon of paste versus 1/2 cup or a cup of sauce.

      Dr Ornish shrunk it with a WFPB diet.

      I believe he worked with Dr William Li, but I might have that wrong. Dr Li has a TED Talk on anti angiogenesis and foods.

      Synergy of super foods was one. They ground up superfoods and put them in capsules to see if there was synergy and there was, so go to the foods versus cancer videos and make a great big list.

      1. Deb,
        You seem to be conflating prostate cancer with benign prostate hyperplasia (enlarged prostate gland). The oft cited Ornish study reported reductions in PSA and inhibition of prostate cancer cell growth. Prostate cancers cells are few in number compared to an entire, especially enlarged, prostate.
        https://www.ornish.com/zine/good-morning-america-dr-dean-ornish-on-reversing-prostate-cancer/

        It’s conceivable an antiangiogenic diet might help reduce future growth but I am unaware of any evidence it does.

  5. So…

    If someone eats all of and lots of:
    sweet potato, blueberry, kale, broccoli, apple, black pepper, tomato,
    and conjugated linoleic acid,
    will that counteract the carcinogenic effect of eggs?

    1. Hello Sydney,

      Given that the carcinogenic effects may actually be due to the cholesterol, it is unlikely that the foods listed will abolish the risk. Of course eating healthy plant foods is always a great idea and will decrease your risk compared with someone who isn’t consuming those foods, it is impossible to say that it will remove any risk associated with the eggs because that study simply hasn’t been done. If you would like to learn more about the cholesterol/breast cancer connection, a new video was published today and I have linked it below.

      Matt

      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/oxidized-cholesterol-27hc-may-explain-3-breast-cancer-mysteries/

      1. Thank you WFPBLiisa.

        Why discuss how to keep potentially unhealthy items in our diet?

        Nutritionfacts.org and Dr. G are clear on nutrition.
        1) A “whole food plant based (WFPB)” diet is scientifically proven to be healthy.
        2) Products of animal origin may inherently be harmful.

        Eggs may be harmful per the current video. Nothing new; just additional reliable evidence.

        Support and motivate each other in staying WFPB.

    1. Hi I’m a RN health support volunteer. The egg white certainly has less of the fat and cholesterol. However, animal protein has actually been shown to have harm.
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-effect-of-animal-protein-on-stress-hormones-testosterone-and-pregnancy/
      So even egg whites and the leanest meats, are not the best for us. Egg whites can also have hormones, choline, and other less than beneficial things for us.
      Dr. Greger often says, everything you eat can be a “lost opportunity” Instead of egg whites, you could be spending that time and those calories on something really truly beneficial for you- lentils, greens, berries . . . the “green light” foods.

      NurseKelly

  6. But perhaps eating eggs lowers the risk of type two diabetes?

    Check this report out from Tufts on dairy fat:

    https://now.tufts.edu/news-releases/markers-dairy-fat-consumption-linked-lower-risk-type-2-diabetes

    And no, before some folks get upset and conclude that I seem a shill for the dairy industry, I don’t believe this study. Which even if true, considering all the other drawbacks of dairy with respect to increasing heart disease and cancer, remains a very poor dietary choice.

    On the other hand, it does show how science works these days, and how even well known universities have become less trustworthy that ever. (though as far as corruption goes, the sugar industry paying off Dr. Fredrick J. Stare, the chairman of Harvard’s nutrition department, D. Mark Hegsted, who went on to become the head of nutrition at the United States Department of Agriculture, who helped draft the forerunner to the federal government’s dietary guidelines, remains my favorite. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-industry-shifted-blame-to-fat.html )

    1. alef1,

      Dr. Barnard healed people from Type 2 Diabetes lowering fat.

      Another doctor got people off of insulin by having them eat almost all of their calories from fat. Note: the almost all fat diet didn’t heal the people. Fat just doesn’t spike blood sugar, so they can use less insulin. Dr. Barnard healed the pancreas. Dairy products may be implicated in having people get Type 1 Diabetes and more and more people are getting that as adults.

      Getting healed is better.

      1. Plus, all of the major milk brands tested positive for Bovine Leukemia Virus and that is linked to cancer and cancer is the topic we are on.

    2. alef1

      That’s just an observational study. Observational studies are notorious for being confounded by uncontrolled variables. For example, what did the people eating the most dairy eat less of and what did the people eating the least dairy eat more of? In Western countries, calories from dairy often replace eg calories from meats, hydrogenated cooking oils/fats (think eg Crisco),. refined carbohydrates and processed foods generally. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if dairy appeared protective RELATIVE to foods like those.

      Observational studies which do attempt to look at other dietary factors, as well as dairy consumption, seem to find that dairy consumption appears protective relative to meat eating. However in this study so-called ‘vegans’ appeared to have the lowest diabetes risk of all – almost half the risk of diabetes as ‘lacto-ovo vegetarians’ eg

      ‘Participants were 15,200 men and 26,187 women (17.3% Blacks) across the U.S. and Canada who were free of diabetes and who provided demographic, anthropometric, lifestyle and dietary data. Participants were grouped as vegan, lacto ovo vegetarian, pesco vegetarian, semi-vegetarian or non-vegetarian (reference group). A follow-up questionnaire after two years elicited information on the development of diabetes. Cases of diabetes developed in 0.54% of vegans, 1.08% of lacto ovo vegetarians, 1.29% of pesco vegetarians, 0.92% of semi-vegetarians and 2.12% of non-vegetarians.’
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3638849/

      That doesn’t suggest that eating eggs and dairy lowers diabetes risk compared to eating a completely vegetarian diet – on the contrary, egg and dairy consumption appears to almost double the risk of developing diabetes..

      That said, both studies are observational so it’s hard to draw firm conclusions about causality but it does mean that the simplistic associations highlighted in the Tufts.press release could very well be highly misleading. Good publicity for the dairy industry though.

      1. Tom, Although it’s clear from the study that as you state, eating eggs or dairy does not offer protection from diabetes, the results only suggest vegan diets are better than ovo-lacto and semi- vegetarian diets because there was a large overlap in confidence intervals (non-overlapping intervals indicate statistical significance, but overlapping intervals might or might not be statistically significant), and because the number of vegans was very small. Cf. the quote below:

        *”In the current study the vegan diet appeared to afford the greatest protection* *against the development of diabetes, however, confidence limits of the vegan and lacto ovo* *and semi-vegetarian diets largely overlapped, indicating no significant differences between* *the dietary patterns. Furthermore, the results for vegans should be interpreted with care, as*

      2. Good point but I think the upshot is still that we should be wary of (implied) claims based on observational studies that eating dairy foods will reduce everybody’s risk of diabetes?

  7. I’ve been eating 1 egg a day for years and years. I have low cholesterol and rarely eat red meat, don’t drink alcohol or smoke. Diet mainly organic. Do I need to give my egg? I’m so addicted to it? Help?

    1. My humble opinion? I’d say no, keep doing what you’re doing.

      I was at the supermarket earlier, and started chatting with two ladies in line ….mother and daughter. Talked mainly with the daughter. She said her mother was 95, and had all her faculties. She did indeed 20 years younger, at the very least. Looked terrific, in fact.

      As I usually do, when I meet those crowding 100, I asked what foods she ate. Any no-no foods, etc.? Daughter said she “ate everything in moderation.” She mainly followed the Med. diet., if anything. Yup, we’re all different.

      1. Some older text say “Thy breaths are numbered”, but who really know if living longer means your diet is better. I’d have to say they are not correlated, I’ve witnessed a family member drag on for 20 years with horrible health. Even though their arteries were clogged, and the doctors were hacking off body parts they kept on going.. What does matter is living healthy for the duration of your life, not spending the last 20 years of your life with diabetes or some other chronic aliment. Warren Buffett is old and has a horrible diet. My guess is that he was born with an incredibly strong immune system, something which is becoming more and more rare in the Western world. So do we follow his advice on diet, I think not.

        Another point worth making is that each generation appears to degenerating. If you read “How Not to Die”, the book makes a reference to the general population living longer in sickness, we also have more kids being born problems.

      2. What happens in most people though?

        Survivorship bias is rife in stories like these. If a 1,000 people eat everything in moderation and one makes it to 100, we’ll hear about that one person. Nobody would ever mention the other 999 who ate that way and didn’t make it.

        This ‘we’re all different’ line is true enough but it’s too often used as a licence to tell people to ignore sound nutritional advice.which will benefit most people but perhaps have no effect in a minority of people with favourable genetic factors and/or a whole bunch of compensating dietary/lifestyle practices.

        Watch the videos on eggs on this website and make your own decision. Do you think you are fortunate and one of a minority who have a constellation of genes that provide protection that means egg consumption will not increase risk in your personal case?
        https://nutritionfacts.org/?s=egg

      3. Forgot to mention that this 95-year old lady’s husband is a healthy 98. Good genes in both folks? Or maybe that, in addition to their healthy diet. The daughter said her grandfather lived to be 101.

        That old “everything in moderation” is so nonspecific, though. I always say one man’s moderation can be another’s “way too much.”

    2. Were eggs part of your culture? Cultural foods are not really a choice food because people are brain imprinted with them. They never question them.

    3. Tracy – before I went vegan 6 years ago I used to eat 2 eggs a day! I was a misinformed vegetarian who thought that I must have eggs and milk products as a source of protein! Once you go off of the eggs for few weeks, you won’t miss them anymore. Today I can’t even stand the smell of an egg being cooked.

    4. This paper below suggests that you could be upping your risk of early death by 23% However that was in males and perhaps the effects might be different in women. But other studies delivered different results and the paper also notes
      ‘Limited and inconsistent data have been reported on the association between egg consumption and CHD. Among 514 Australian Aborigines, consumption of 2+ eggs per week was associated with a 2.6-fold increased risk of CHD in a prospective analysis(16). Mann et al.(17) reported a 2.7-fold increased risk of death with a higher egg consumption (6+/week) among British subjects. In contrast, other large prospective cohorts with longer follow-ups did not observe any association between egg consumption and CHD or mortality(18-21).’
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2386667/

      The US Institute of Medicine and US Dietary Guidelines advise that cholesterol consumption should be kept as low as possible. That’s zero for me but you have to make your own decision.

    5. Hello Tracy,

      Our job here at Nutritionfacts.org isn’t to tell you what you must or must not eat, but to educate you about the health effects of your food choices so you can make informed decisions. It is quite clear that eggs increase risk of heart disease, breast cancer, and other illnesses and we have over 200 videos on the topic if you would like to take a deep dive into the egg research, which I have linked below. If you inform yourself on the topic and decide that the risk is worth it, then by all means continue to consume them, but that is a decision that must be made on an individual basis.

      I hope you find the information useful,
      Matt

      Eggs: https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/eggs/

    1. Hello Sydney,

      With the advent of iodized salt, most people get their iodine from table salt; however, we at Nutritionfacts.org do not recommend adding salt to foods as it raises blood pressure and increases risk of stomach cancer. Instead we generally rely on sea vegetables as a reliable source of iodine. If you personally don’t like sea vegetables, then another alternative is to take a supplement.

      I hope this helps,
      Matt

      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/avoiding-iodine-deficiency-2/

  8. Would like to see research based on high Omega 3 eggs, obtained through feeding the chickens high omega 3 chicken feed.

    Also, would like to see preparation broken down between hard/soft boiled and poached.

    Just sayin’ let’s give a hen a fair shake.

  9. I am an out-patient oral anticoagulation nurse hoping to find info about red fruits elevating the INR and why. Can anyone advise me on where I can get info on this?

    1. Hi Jenny- I have not seen evidence supporting grouping all red fruits together in terms of their INR effects. There have been case reports of cranberry juice affecting INR, but the most recent data I could find found conflicting effects of cranberry on INR. Most red fruits are not high in vitamin K. If you’re suspicious that a particular fruit in a patient’s diet is messing up their INR, I’d go to PubMed and see what research there is on that particular fruit.

      Dr Anderson, Cardiologist and Health Support Volunteer

  10. Unfortunately there is nothing mentioned about using antibiotic – hormone laden commercial eggs vs organic free range eggs. Obviously all the extra hormones and antibiotics will have an effect on breast cancer and all other cancers, so… you can’t just say no eggs, but you can say No Commercially Raised Eggs!

    1. Whereas “free range eggs” sound very nice (I’m a wfpbd eater so I don’t eat them anyway), free range eggs means something only if you go to the farm, see the chickens running around in their pens and buy the eggs directly from the farmer. This could be hard to do if you live in New York, Vancouver (where I live part time) or any other large city in North America. If you buy them from the supermarket, think about what free range likely means in commercial terms. It likely means that although the chickens aren’t tortured in a cage, four at a time their whole lives, with about half a square foot each, there likely are 2000 or so in a barn in which there is a hole about 18″ square in the far end that most of the chickens don’t even know about, and outside there is a 50sq ft pen they could go into to peck around if they knew it was there. As a result, the ones that don’t know about the access to fresh air and actual dirt to peck in available to them, spend their entire lives instinctively pecking around in 2000 chickens’ worth of poop under their feet on the barn floor. In addition, they likely all eat feed laced with arsenic which they are fed in a preemptive attempt to kill the pathogens they’re eating as they’re pecking around in the poop. Better to leave all the eggs alone, if you ask me!

        1. I know a company that sells eggs from pastured chickens that are rotated into fields a few days after the 100% grass fed cows so that the chickens can scratch the maggots out of the cow dung. HOWEVER, they also feed the chickens standard chicken feed, so don’t think so called pastured chicken eggs would be any better.

          I would very much be interested in eggs from wild grouse.

          1. Having been reading and viewing videos on NutritionFacts.org for years now, I can say there is no doubt in my mind that if I was diagnosed with cancer, or precancer, or had any family history of cancer I would RUN to WFPB eating… wouldn’t think twice about it. I sure the heck wouldn’t be wasting my time messing around with considering this animal food or that.. or what can I get away with .. and for men with prostate cancer, the consequences can be dire. Watch for the amazing posts of ‘Robert Haille’ who generously contributes on this topic.

            1. Barb,

              Yes, WFPB, anti-angiogenesis food, but after walking my dog through it, I would start with water fasting for at least 48 hours, followed by calorie restriction and I give props to keto that they are succeeding too at Cancer – though they start with water fasting and 3 weeks of calorie restriction and that already would expose the tumor to the immune system, so I can only say that I have watched enough videos of them succeeding that I would be doing vegan keto after water fasting.

              I watched Dr Seyfried again tonight. If my brother can’t succeed at WFPB or water fasting, Keto would be the way to go. Pondering it because he has a month before his surgery and he cheats on the WFPB diet and might do okay on Keto. Dr Seyfried doesn’t recommend it permanently, but uses it for cancer.

              Then WFPB.

              1. Let me clarify that.

                I know that WFPB already had stopped or slowed the progression of my dog’s cancer. If my dog had liked it better, I believe he could have slowly gotten healed with that alone. That is just a hunch because it didn’t happen.

                He was supposed to die within 2 weeks and he was doing fine until he stopped eating the vegan fare around the 5th month. Animal products caused the tumors to grow. It was visible and I thought I would have to put him down. I even called to say that I was thinking about it. Then, I stopped feeding him entirely and it is a few months later and water fasting seems to have healed him.

                He is still on calorie restriction after the fast because I see the logic for it from Dr. Seyfried’s studies.

                March is his yearly appointment.

                Pondering taking him in and getting him scanned or not wasting the money.

                1. “…well-known cancer specialist….”
                  – – – – –

                  I did a google search on DG, the man wrote the article back in 2014, and found out more about him. Interesting comments/sites indeed!

                  NF won’t let me post any links, so…….

                2. Thank you for posting that link Mr Fumblefingers. I am very glad I read the article – good background info, and I appreciated hearing ‘where we are at’ with the treatments.

            2. Barb, both my husband and I have been diagnosed with cancer (we each have extensive family histories of cancer) — which is how I found Nutrition Facts, researching nutrition and cancer. And though we were already ovo-lacto vegetarian (though tapering off dairy for other reasons), we eventually stopped both, and now eat plant based whole foods. I wish I’d known much earlier what I know now — I would have stopped eating dairy and eggs much sooner.

              But, my reasons for vegetarian eating were sustainability, not health; in fact, I was worried that a vegetarian diet might not be a healthy diet. But I knew very little about nutrition, and the nutrition textbooks I bought were directed to, and in fact emphasized, animal products in the diet. I think that their attitude toward vegetarianism and veganism was generally dismissive if not outright negative. Hence, the source of my concerns about health. And, of course, plant based whole foods eating was never mentioned.

              1. Dr J, I think I have mentioned before that I too have found various medical circles/specialties dismissive on the topic of diet and plant based eating… but that’s ok! We feel fortunate to have found this website, and only regret not changing over sooner. We thought we were eating very healthy, and our physicians and friends did too, but there is no comparison. Best wishes to you both going forward.. I am convinced we all made a sound decision.

    2. Is there any evidence whatsoever that organic free-range eggs are any less problematic re cancer risk than any other eggs?

      If not, you appear to be flying on a wing and a prayer with that sort of belief. It appears to be a very common belief though. Nobody has yet suggested that organic tobacco is any less dangerous than any other type of tobacco but the ‘it’s organic free-range so it must be healthy’ argument seems to be everywhere

      1. What about egg whites? What are the levels of choline and carnitine in egg whites? When statements are made that animal protein is bad is it the actual protein or other components that are the culprits? Are there any studies showing the effects of egg whites on our health? For this reason I ask about egg whites. Is it possible that egg whites contain low levels or none of the culprits?

  11. Has there been any studies on the effect of chicken feed (corn etc) on the prevalence of cancer etc in the humans who eat chicken eggs and chicken meat?
    I have suspected for quite some time that corn based chicken feed is as bad for chickens as corn is for cows and sheep.

  12. FYI
    https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2019/01/virulent-newcastle-disease-spreads-to-californias-commercial-flocks/

    Virulent Newcastle disease spreads to California’s commercial flocks
    By News Desk on January 14, 2019
    The U.S. Department of Agriculure’s partially shut down Animal and Plant Inspection Service (APHIS) is being challenged by the deadly and highly contagious Virulent Newcastle disease that’s jumped from backyard poultry to commercial flocks in California.

    USDA officials are quick to say that Virulent Newcastle is not a food safety risk. Humans are not exposed to Virulent Newcastle from eating poultry products that are properly cooked. People working with sick birds can become infected, but it’s rare.

    Since last May, California has experienced Virulent Newcastle infections of birds from backyard flocks. APHIS and the California Department of Food and Agriculture have been working since then to locate, limit and eradicate the disease.

    Eradication has resulted in 60,000 birds being killed. Until recently, the bird kill was centered on those backyard flocks.

    That changed on Dec. 16, 2018, when APHIS reported Virulent Newcastle disease was present in a commercial flock of 110,000 6-week-old layer chickens in Riverside County, CA. Such reports to the World Organization of Animal Health (OIE) are mandatory.

    On Jan. 8, APHIS reported Virulent Newcastle disease in a second large commercial layer flock in south California. And a third infected commercial flock was reported two days later.

    All three are part of the southern California outbreak that began in spring 2018 with backyard exhibition birds centered in Riverside County.

    The symptoms that humans working with birds might develop are usually mild and limited to conjunctivitis and/or flu-like reactions. Human infections can be prevented by using standard personal protective equipment.

    APHIS said federal and state partners are conducting additional surveillance and testing in southern California. Nearby commercial farms are being checked and encouraged to step-up biosecurity measures to prevent additional spread of the disease.

    “It is essential that all bird owners follow good biosecurity practices to help protect their birds from infectious disease,” APHIS said in a statement confirming the infections in the third commercial flocks. “These include simple steps like washing hands and scrubbing boots before and after entering a poultry area; and cleaning and disinfecting tires and equipment before moving them off the property.”

    For the birds, mostly chickens, Virulent Newcastle is highly contagious and a fatal viral disease that strikes the respiratory, nervous and digestive systems. Death often comes before clinical signs are noticable. An unvaccinated flock will experience a 100 percent fatality rate.

    In addition to sudden death, clinical signs include sneezing, gasping for air, nasal discharge, coughing, greenish watery diarrhea, decreased activity, tremors, drooping wings, twisting of the heat and neck, complete stiffness and swelling of eyes and neck.

    Steve Lyle, the spokesman for the California Department of Agriculture, said themassive bird kill was necessary. “No one wants their birds euthanized,” he said. “In fact, we don’t like the idea of euthanizing birds at all, but we know scientifically that this is the only option that will stop the spread of the virus and eradicate the disease.”

    Lyle said most Californians “understand what we’re up against when we share specific information with them, particularly if they have seen what this virus does to poultry. It is a highly contagious killer of poultry.”

    The APHIS work to eradicate the disease has continued since Dec. 22, 2018, the date of the partial shutdown of the federal government that includes USDA agencies.

    1. Hi I’m a RN health support volunteer. The egg white certainly has less of the fat and cholesterol. However, animal protein has actually been shown to have harm.
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-effect-of-animal-protein-on-stress-hormones-testosterone-and-pregnancy/
      So even egg whites and the leanest meats, are not the best for us. Egg whites can also have hormones, choline, and other less than beneficial things for us.
      Dr. Greger often says, everything you eat can be a “lost opportunity” Instead of egg whites, you could be spending that time and those calories on something really truly beneficial for you- lentils, greens, berries . . . the “green light” foods.

      NurseKelly

      1. Thank you nurse Kelly. When you say animal protein is bad, isn’t isolated protein the same if it was from a plant source or animal source? I thought it was the carnitine and choline that are the culprits in causing cancer and cardiovascular disease. How much of these components are found in egg whites as compared to whole eggs or any other type of meat? Are there any studies showing negative effects from egg white consumption?

        1. Hello Pat,

          One would think that both animal and plant proteins behave the same when everything else is removed; however, they actually behave very differently in the body. They are generally made up of different amounts of various amino acids and proteins that are high in sulfur containing amino acids can actually feed into cancer. The foods that are generally high in these amino acids are animal proteins, especially seafood and eggs. In fact, studies done on egg whites alone have demonstrated that they putrefy in the gut and produce compounds that increase cancer risk.

          I hope you find this useful,

          Matt, Health Support

          https://nutritionfacts.org/2017/11/07/bad-gut-flora-can-undermine-our-natural-liver-detox/

  13. I’m tired of listening to one “study” after another without an evaluation of the validity of the study or the people who conduct them. Yes, they all have very impressive names. So? Who really are they and have they previously produced studies that in the long run proved accurate? If so, who are they? This strikes me as click bait.

    1. Hi David! If you click the “Sources Cited” tab under the video, there are links to all of the studies mentioned in each video. From there, you are able to see the affiliated organization and the list of people who contributed to the study, as well as be linked to other studies they have been involved with. I hope that helps!

  14. Choline is important for the brain, and I don’t think people should be scared of consuming it.
    (I think studies show that people who eat very little animal protein don’t convert choline to TMAO.)

    Should you ideally get your daily requirement of it from plant food, yes!
    But I find when I analyze the diets of most vegan patients they don’t get much.

    For many patients I deal with the really frightening disease is Alzheimer’s.
    Do studies show how much choline is needed in the diet to support brain health?

    1. The Cleveland Clinic study of 2012 found cholesterol intake directly associated with a biome population prone to convert cholesterol to TMA. The TMA is taken up by the liver from blood and compounded to TMAO, then dumped into the bloodstream to be deposited in all the worst places in the cardiovascular system.

      Cleveland concluded with analysis of vegetarian vs. omnivore production of TMAO, and found confirmed vegetarians (who volunteered to eat meat for the study) could eat a steak without producing any TMAO– for a short while, at least, because their guts were free of TMA-producing bacteria. Soon enough, however, after having seeded their guts with meat choline / cholesterol, a TMAO-hungry population of bacteria suddenly proliferated “out of nowhere” to consume the choline.

      Predictably, the former vegetarians were busy producing TMAO with the best of the regular omnivores.

      1. THIS SENTENCE READ– “a TMAO-hungry population of bacteria suddenly proliferated “out of nowhere” to consume the choline.”
        THIS SENTENCE SHOULD READ– “a choline (and carnatine)-hungry population of bacteria suddenly proliferated “out of nowhere” to consume the choline.”:

        Another reminder to forum administrator– we often need to edit our own posted comments– AFTER posting– either to clarify or to add information. .

        1. Right, an edit button would be a major improvement.

          But another issue is that unlike the Disqus system, one cannot sign up to get comments only related to one’s own comment. This greatly facilitated detailed discussions of specific topics. I learned a great deal that way. These days one must either get blasted by lots of comments or get no comments. I think this kills discussion since who wants to weed through so many comments on different topics?

          1. “I think this kills discussion since who wants to weed through so many comments on different topics?”
            – – – –

            True, scrolling down all those “unrelated comments” is a major drag. On the other hand, sometimes we learn things we never would have known otherwise.

                    1. You crack me up! …. ‘faces of Adam’, in my case. I decided to try using the Japanese characters because of their aesthetic value, which I hope you like too… but kept the ugly romanized version as an identifier. Which is displayed depends on the mood of the app used.

                    2. “Which is displayed depends on the mood of the app used.”
                      – – – – –

                      All you high-tech folks out there! “Apps” are going to take over the world!

        1. Marilyn
          I think you make an important point. There seems to be a tendency to assume that less of something that in some circumstances can be problematic is always better. Choline is a good example. But as you most likely know, many cruciferous vegetables, as well as various legumes like chickpeas, tofu and some nuts also supply significant amounts, so there is no need to eat eggs to get choline.

          1. gengo, agree. I was mainly addressing the video that Barb posted, that seemed to imply that choline itself is a health risk.
            I noted in an earlier post on this thread that vegetable sources of choline are preferable. However most vegans do not consume enough. That’s why I like Dr. Gregor’s daily dozen. I fear many people get focused on what Not to eat.

  15. This video is mislabeled– the presentation was 75 percent complete before breast cancer was even mentioned.

    Most of the references involved prostate cancer– but all to the good, since most men are not aware of a “dose-relationship” between cholesterol and prostate cancer.

  16. The NIcoyan diet includes regular consumption of eggs. It includes lots of added sugar in their beverages. It is however mostly starches and fruit, with some vegetables. Perhaps it’s their corn tortillas and beans that flood their body with phytosterols so that the dietary cholesterol doesn’t get absorbed. Soaking grains with lime water should be explored as a beneficial way to supplement calcium to plant based diets. Also for releasing nutrients from said grains. Better than tofu imo. Also, videos about how plants can ameliorate the harmful effects of animal foods would be interesting to learn about. I’d like to know more about combining pulses with animal foods. I’ve got this feeling that people don’t like doing this for some reason. It’s like either pulses are the main protein in the meal or meat but not both. Is that just me?

        1. Thanks YR. Yes, I am aware that Nicoya is one of the Blue Zones and I even spent 3 months in Costa Rica at one point. I think too that one of our regular commenters Dr Robert Halle lives in Nicoya.

          I am further aware that maize/sweetcorn needs to be soaked in lime or wood ash water to prevent pellagra/niacin deficiency. However I am not aware that other grains should be soaked in lime/ash water (because they are uually higher in tryptophan than maize) which is why I asked Arthur if he had any evidence to support this suggestion

          Also his idea that higher consumption of plants might compensate for the harmful effects of animal foods is common among paleo dieters but I am not aware of any good evidence for this. High fruit and vegetable consumption is certainly associated with lower mortality eg
          https://www.researchgate.net/publication/242333198_Fruit_and_vegetable_consumption_and_all-cause_mortality_A_doseresponse_analysis

          However in this Swedish study of almost 75,000 people, high fruit and vegetable (FV) consumption did not apparently lead to reduced mortality risk for people eating large amounts of red meat.

          ‘High intakes of red meat were associated with a higher risk of all-cause and CVD mortality. The increased risks were consistently observed in participants with low, medium, and high FV consumption.’
          https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/104/4/1137/

          This doesn’t suggest to me that paleo dieters (or carnivore dieters for that matter) are doing themselves any favours.

          Nicoya’s different though – people there might eat meat once a weak and eggs more frequently It’s probably still a WFPB diet though since I doubt that animal foods deliver more than 10% of total calories. Also without supplements you’d need some animal foods to provide B12 and some other micronutrients not always available in poverty diets built around a single staple plant food (maize in this case).

          1. I am aware that Nicoya is one of the Blue Zones and I even spent 3 months in Costa Rica at one point.
            —————————————————————————————————————————————–
            Tom, Phillipines, Costa Rica (that I remember you mentioning as past destinations)… if it is something you can or perhaps are willing to divulge… what is your work?

            (This is not a job interview… just curious as all get out. ‘-)

            1. Lonie, he’ll never squeal. Betcha anything. He’ll simply ignore your question.

              I reckon he works for the Cabal….or the Government…..or is a Russian spy….or maybe a Martian….or *shudder* works for Big Pharma! :-/

              1. I reckon he works for the Cabal….or the Government…..or is a Russian spy….or maybe a Martian….or *shudder* works for Big Pharma! :-/
                ————————————————————————————————-
                As you suggest, nothing’s off the table… but he does spin a nice cover story. ‘-)

                Annnnnnd, speaking of nothing off the table, I discovered something new last evening.

                After recently reading and viewing some of Dr. Greger’s remarks in re vinegar consumption, I broke out a bottle of balsamic. I have a lot of that stuff (bought a multi-gallon jug meant for sales to restaurants and poured it up into Biotta beet juice saved glass bottles.)

                I went to pour one up into another glass container that had an insert in the neck that allows one to sprinkle rather than pour… but when I tried to pour it into the new bottle from the Biotta one, the liquid was blocked by a really dark glob.

                Finally got the blob broken up somewhat and moving… and out came this long dark gelatinous substance that I presumed was vinegar “mother.” I saved it in a larger open mouth jar, put it in the fridge and forgot it.

                Last evening I pulled it out, added some to my oatmeal, quinoa, and blueberries all drenched in almond milk. The gelatinous mother was kinda like tough jello that had dried somewhat, so I could’t easily just break it up into small pieces. Figured it didn’t matter as it would melt in the bowl.

                Well, everything was going smoothly with my experiment as I would get an occasional small piece about the size of a wild blueberry in my spoon. Gave a tingly sensation followed by a contrasting sort of sweet sensation when I bit into one of the blueberries on my spoon.

                Long story shortened a bit, there was one spoonful that looked as though it contained a large blueberry, but when I bit down on it it released a strong vinegar sensation. Filling my mouth with additional spoons of oatmeal, quinoa, and blueberries got me through the “balsamic surprise” and I made a mental note to take a knife and chop up the gelatinous length of bottle neck core before adding to soups, oatmeal, etc.

                I’ve just gotta believe “mother of vinegar” is not only a great way to perk up a meal, but has to be a concentration of very good balsamic nutrition.

            2. Lonie

              t’s nothing exciting. I spent 3 months in Costa Rica trying to learn a few words of Spanish. It cost a lot less than living in Spain for 3 months would have done

              With the Philippines I needed a couple of new dental crowns Some nifty internet research revealed I could get the work done there to a high standard, have a two week holidaaly in a 3-star hotel, pay for the return airfare and it would still cost me less than having the work done at home in Australia. Seemed like a no-brainer really. Since then, I have retired and spend most of the year here My wife’s a Philippina and the cost of living here is much cheaper. I see an eye specialist for my glaucoma,for example, and it costs about US$7.50 a visit and I get in to see her the same day. Also over here I am relatively rich (even on a pension) and relatively tall which is psychologically comforting

              Still I like YR’s explanations much better. They sound so much more glamorous (and better paid) than being a retired civil service drone. Of course I bet that YR has done her fair share of internationa travelling. After all, that broomstick of hers costs nothing to run and there’s no need for all that TSA and passport control palaver.

              1. Yes, Fumbles….I hate airplane traveling, so definitely go by broomstick. To other planets, of course.

                You’ll scoff, natch, but the head and neck roll exercise as suggested by (woo-woo!) Edgar Cayce and by yoga instructors are very similar. Might help your eyes in some way; I do them every morning along with my other yoga exercises.

                https://www.edgarcayce.org/content/the-readings/health-and-wellness/holistic-health-database/therapies-head-and-neck-exercises/

              2. t’s nothing exciting. I spent 3 months in Costa Rica trying to learn a few words of Spanish. It cost a lot less than living in Spain for 3 months would have done

                With the Philippines I needed a couple of new dental crowns Some nifty internet research revealed I could get the work done there to a high standard, have a two week holidaaly in a 3-star hotel, pay for the return airfare and it would still cost me less than having the work done at home in Australia.
                ————————————————————————————————–
                Yeah, Right. ‘-)

                And speaking of YR…
                ____________________________________
                Of course I bet that YR has done her fair share of international traveling. After all, that broomstick of hers costs nothing to run and there’s no need for all that TSA and passport control palaver.
                —————————————————————————————-
                Sounds plausible but I think you are going to need some hard evidence like video, phone tap, a straw from her broom for DNA testing, to convince “Control” to order you to “eliminate her with prejudice.”

                (If that order comes down, I suggest you hack her broom, take control of it when she’s on one of her International trips, and cause it to fly up into the butt of a passing jet airliner over the International Dateline, so no one can pinpoint the date of her disappearance. ‘-)

                WHAT AM I SAYIN’!? I LIKE YR… BROOM RIDER THOUGH SHE BE!

                DON’T OFF HER!

                  1. to make sure he has nothing sinister in mind. :-)
                    ——————————————————————-
                    So you are saying he’s left handed?

          2. Yeah just using my imagination. The diet description from the NIcoyan diet i got from some Google hits. I decided to search Google after watching some Youtube videos about the diet from the Blue Zone, LLC Youtube channel. I also found out they fry their food in lard on another Google hit. The Queen of England is on a paleo diet. She’s at 92 years of age. There’s got to be something missing from the discussion. A wfpb diet is the diet to sustain populations; no arguments there. Just want to know where the sweet spot is. Maybe if i can do the Daily Dozen every day I might be OK but I’ve got this issue at home.

            I can’t change how much produce i can buy because of complaints from the rest of the family. I can’t change food prep habits to make it easier on me. I can’t buy another fridge, I can’t shop at the markets more frequently. I’m left many days with not enough fruits and vegetables to eat. I’m scared about my Mum too. She eats smaller portions of the meals I prepare and I’m concerned about depriving her. For example I eat a cup of cooked pulses and a cup of cooked grains in a pulse-grain-vegetable soup/stew for lunch and for dinner. My mum eats a quarter of a cup of cooked pulses and a cup of cooked grains. She eats very little amounts of the sides I prepare. Most likely I’m a terrible boring cook but it’s all i can do. When we eat take-out she eats all of the portion; no surprises there. I can’t even buy a plant based cookbook online because I don’t trust online security anymore.

  17. Dr. Greger can you please make a video just on antioxidants and their efficacy? I watched a video with my brother on Kurzgesagt – In a Nutshell titled Is Organic Really Better? Healthy Food or Trendy Scam? Which gave a lot of the same points you make on the comparison between the two. The exact quote I felt to be very insidious was this one “Antioxidants are believed to have some health benefits although scientists are still on the fence about them in general”. This line will put doubt in the minds of many viewers and take a big motivation for people to bother with eating plant foods. Please make a video showing that antioxidants are without a doubt beneficial. I wanted to find one to show to my brother to counteract the doubt placed in his mind. A video specifically challenging this claim would do a lot of good. Millions of people have seen this video. It’s critique at antioxidants may seem slight, but the consequences could be massive.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvodHKXH0XU

  18. Cameron Jeremiah, at this link you will find links to videos (many videos!) on the topic of antioxidants. Not only what great things antioxidants do for us, but where we find the best sources in the plant world :
    https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/antioxidants

    This is an ‘annual review’.. an hour long feature on how eating plants can be so protective against common diseases.
    https://nutritionfacts.org/video/more-than-an-apple-a-day-preventing-our-most-common-diseases/

    Nutrition Facts.org is searchable .. hundreds upon hundreds of nutrition related topics available! Best of health to you and your brother.

  19. There needs to be a video about choline and the whole food plant based diet. There is a really good video about arugula on this website. That video talks more about nitrate levels and not about choline levels. From what I understand , arugula is also good to deal with heavy metal toxicity . I guess I got to wait until we get back to the A’s and C’a as a lot of the video are posted alphabetically.

  20. Nutritionfacts.org and Dr. G are clear on nutrition.
    1) A “whole food plant based (WFPB)” diet is scientifically proven to be healthy.
    2) Products of animal origin may inherently be harmful.

    Eggs may be harmful per the current video. Nothing new; just additional reliable evidence.
    Why discuss how to keep potentially unhealthy items in our diet?

    Support and motivate each other in staying WFPB.

    1. Only people interested in the scientific evidence

      Others who believe books and videos by snake oil merchants and other con artists instead may not be inclined to stay around if the evidence contradicts their beliefs Or contradicts the claims of Psychic Syd who says that eating crabs will cure cancer becuse cancer is latin for crab and the Law of Similars means that we need to fight fire with fire.

  21. Support and motivate each other in staying WFPB.
    ———————————————————————-
    Conform or die? (die being a euphemism for leave)

    Only sycophants need apply?

  22. Five minutes after reading your article warning that eggs cause vast increases in cancer risk, I come across this piece (headline in my browser’s homepage) touting how eggs are miraculously good for you.
    [https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/nutrition/eating-eggs-often-can-have-a-huge-impact-on-your-body-and-mind/ss-BBR89bO?ocid=spartanntp]

    Its this kind of ‘advice whiplash’ that make me want to throw up my hands and abandon all attempts to eat healthy. I place a lot of trust in NutriionFacts.org, but when I read nutrition advice from other ‘trusted sources’ that is the complete opposite of what you conclude, I’m left bewildered.

  23. Laurie,

    I looked through the slides and was completely unimpressed. It’s all about the science….. so let’s take a bit of a walk through their presentation.

    It’s true that the egg contains the nutrients noted. There is no reference to the other issues of hormones/pesticide content/ the HDL/LDL issue is far from resolved/ no TMAO mentions…….https://nutritionfacts.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c1bae6687e1e6ab175fb56913&id=7025b0849a&e=b7bee4794f/ and should we discuss the 1.5 g of saturated fat / per egg ?

    I loved the first slides rap that makes it sound like the egg is the bomb of nutrition with all sorts of vitamins and minerals….. but let’s look at the facts from an amount, per the egg board: The vitamin D, calcium, iron and potassium are in single digits % of the DV’s….https://www.aeb.org/retail/nutrition and at 185 mg of cholesterol and no fiber hmmmmm.

    Basically it’s about balancing the information that indeed at times is contradictory. Continuing to keep abreast of the newest work critically analyzing and changing as we all learn more.

    Avoid whiplash and keep in mind that the site mentioned gives us no way to verify their claims, without our own research, nor who wrote the site let alone their underlying funding. Balance is the key and then doing our own homework….

    Trusting sites that reference real science and then verifying that they too are not too one sided is the nature of critical thinking. I appreciate NF’s for their attempts to weekly keep up to date, find the facts and then try to present them in a somewhat balanced manner.

    Is it perfect, no but…. I can do my due diligence and derive a science based rational and move forward or not on the subject matter. We know who is presenting and what their underlying funding and intent are from the onset. Much needed transparency vs a news blog without these key factors.

    Dr. Alan Kadish moderator for Dr. Greger http://www.Centerofhealth.com

  24. I’m planning to send the “Dietary Guide for Americans” booklet that was cited in this video to some friends and family. Can you tell me where in the booklet I can find the paragraph that states the IMO is suggested that individuals consume as little cholesterol as possible? Thank you!

    1. OK, I found it! It’s in Chapter 1: Key Elements of Healthy Eating. Then scroll down to “Dietary Cholesterol”.

      Reading through that guide is very confusing because it talks about meat, dairy and eggs being an important component of a healthy diet. But then, there’s the above which completely conflicts. I can see that sending this guide to friends/family is not going to be very helpful. If anything, it will cause them to say “See, animal-based foods are healthy!”

  25. If eggs are the only cholesterol a person is eating would results be the same?
    In my mind- eggs are a PERFECT food… I guess i am wrong. I am really wanting/needing to decrease my breast cancer risk( I cannot imagine giving up eggs) I easily eat 6-10/week. help me understand please!

    1. Hello Jenni,

      This is a fantastic question. You may be aware that there is some scientific literature out there stating that eggs do not raise cholesterol levels; however, that is research on people who already consume a large amount of cholesterol. When you are already consuming a high amount, adding an egg/day isn’t going to make a difference, and that’s how the egg industry can make it seem as though eggs do not raise cholesterol levels. However, when you do not consume any cholesterol and add just a single egg/day you would see a much larger rise in cholesterol levels from your baseline, genetic level.

      As per your second comment on your blood tests. The cholesterol range on most blood tests is very large and 1/4-1/3 of heart attacks occur in those with “normal” cholesterol levels. In order to obtain optimal levels and make yourself “heart attack proof” to quote Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, the optimal range is 50-70mg/dl LDL and below 140mg/dl total cholesterol. The only group that averages cholesterol levels that low are those eating strictly plant-based diets as is evidenced in the video below.

      I hope this answers your question!

      Matt, Health Support

      Optimal cholesterol: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/optimal-cholesterol-level/

  26. * let me add: I consume a vegan diet with the EXCEPTION of eggs. AND get my cholesterol checked every 6 months and it has never been high or even borderline.

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