Is Cheese Healthy? Compared to What?

Is Cheese Healthy? Compared to What?
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Dairy is compared to other foods for cardiovascular (heart attack and stroke) risk.

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

When industry-funded studies suggest their products have “neutral” health effects, or are even beneficial, one question you always have to ask is: “compared to what?” Is cheese healthy? Compared to what? If you’re sitting down to make a sandwich, cheese is probably healthy—compared to bologna—but compared to peanut butter? No way. That’s the point Walt Willett made, former chair of nutrition at Harvard. “To conclude that dairy foods are ‘neutral’ could be misleading,” as it could be misinterpreted “to mean that increasing consumption of dairy foods would have no effects on cardiovascular disease or mortality. Lost is that the health effects of increasing or decreasing consumption of dairy foods could depend importantly on the specific foods that are substituted for dairy foods.”

Like, what are you going to put on your salad? Cheese would be healthy compared to bacon, but not compared to nuts. See, “consumption of nuts or plant protein has [been found to be protectively] associated with risks of coronary heart disease and type 2 diabetes; in contrast, intake of red meat has been…associated with” increased risk. “Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the lack of association with dairy foods could put them somewhere in the middle of a spectrum of healthfulness, but [certainly] not an optimal source of energy or protein. More broadly, the available evidence supports policies that limit dairy production and encourages production of healthier sources of proteins and fats.”

He wasn’t just speculating. This was based on three famous Harvard studies involving hundreds of thousands of men and women exceeding five million “person-years of follow-up.” This was really “the first large-scale prospective study to examine dairy fat intake compared to other types of fat in relation to heart attack and stroke risk. So, replacing like 100 calories of fat worth of cheese with 100 calories of fat worth of peanut butter on a daily basis might reduce risk up to 24%, whereas substitution with other animal fats might make things worse. Here’s how it breaks down for heart disease. Swapping dairy fat for like vegetable oil would be associated with a decrease in disease risk, whereas swapping dairy for meat increases risk. Dairy fat calories may be as bad, or worse, as straight sugar. The lowest risk would entail swapping to a whole plant food, like whole grains.

Yeah, “dairy products are a major contributor to the saturated fat in the diet, and have thus been targeted as one of the main dietary causes of,” you know, the #1 killer of men and women. But the dairy industry likes to argue there are other things in dairy products, like fermentation byproducts in cheese that could counteract the saturated fat effects—all part of an explicit campaign by the dairy industry to “neutralise the negative image of milkfat among regulators and health professionals.”

If Global Dairy Platform looks familiar, they were one of the funders of the milk-and-dairy-is-neutral study, trotting out their dairy-fat-is-counteracted notion. To which the American Heart Association responds that “no information from controlled studies supports the [assertion] that fermentation adds beneficial nutrients to cheese that [somehow] counteract the harmful effects of its saturated fat.”

We need to cut down on dairy, meat, coconut oil no matter what their respective industries say. In fact, that’s the reason the American Heart Association felt that they needed to release this special Presidential Advisory in 2017. “We wanted to set the record straight on why well-conducted scientific research overwhelmingly supports limiting saturated fat in the diet.”

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Image credit: https://pxhere.com/en/photo/830958 via pxhere. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

When industry-funded studies suggest their products have “neutral” health effects, or are even beneficial, one question you always have to ask is: “compared to what?” Is cheese healthy? Compared to what? If you’re sitting down to make a sandwich, cheese is probably healthy—compared to bologna—but compared to peanut butter? No way. That’s the point Walt Willett made, former chair of nutrition at Harvard. “To conclude that dairy foods are ‘neutral’ could be misleading,” as it could be misinterpreted “to mean that increasing consumption of dairy foods would have no effects on cardiovascular disease or mortality. Lost is that the health effects of increasing or decreasing consumption of dairy foods could depend importantly on the specific foods that are substituted for dairy foods.”

Like, what are you going to put on your salad? Cheese would be healthy compared to bacon, but not compared to nuts. See, “consumption of nuts or plant protein has [been found to be protectively] associated with risks of coronary heart disease and type 2 diabetes; in contrast, intake of red meat has been…associated with” increased risk. “Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the lack of association with dairy foods could put them somewhere in the middle of a spectrum of healthfulness, but [certainly] not an optimal source of energy or protein. More broadly, the available evidence supports policies that limit dairy production and encourages production of healthier sources of proteins and fats.”

He wasn’t just speculating. This was based on three famous Harvard studies involving hundreds of thousands of men and women exceeding five million “person-years of follow-up.” This was really “the first large-scale prospective study to examine dairy fat intake compared to other types of fat in relation to heart attack and stroke risk. So, replacing like 100 calories of fat worth of cheese with 100 calories of fat worth of peanut butter on a daily basis might reduce risk up to 24%, whereas substitution with other animal fats might make things worse. Here’s how it breaks down for heart disease. Swapping dairy fat for like vegetable oil would be associated with a decrease in disease risk, whereas swapping dairy for meat increases risk. Dairy fat calories may be as bad, or worse, as straight sugar. The lowest risk would entail swapping to a whole plant food, like whole grains.

Yeah, “dairy products are a major contributor to the saturated fat in the diet, and have thus been targeted as one of the main dietary causes of,” you know, the #1 killer of men and women. But the dairy industry likes to argue there are other things in dairy products, like fermentation byproducts in cheese that could counteract the saturated fat effects—all part of an explicit campaign by the dairy industry to “neutralise the negative image of milkfat among regulators and health professionals.”

If Global Dairy Platform looks familiar, they were one of the funders of the milk-and-dairy-is-neutral study, trotting out their dairy-fat-is-counteracted notion. To which the American Heart Association responds that “no information from controlled studies supports the [assertion] that fermentation adds beneficial nutrients to cheese that [somehow] counteract the harmful effects of its saturated fat.”

We need to cut down on dairy, meat, coconut oil no matter what their respective industries say. In fact, that’s the reason the American Heart Association felt that they needed to release this special Presidential Advisory in 2017. “We wanted to set the record straight on why well-conducted scientific research overwhelmingly supports limiting saturated fat in the diet.”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: https://pxhere.com/en/photo/830958 via pxhere. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Doctor's Note

Everything we eat has an opportunity cost. Every time we put something in our mouths, it’s a lost opportunity to put something even healthier in our mouth.

This is the second in a three-video series. In case you missed the first one: Is Cheese Really Bad for You? Stay tuned for How the Dairy Industry Designs Misleading Studies.

If we don’t eat dairy, though, what about osteoporosis? Check out: Is Milk Good for Our Bones?

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

121 responses to “Is Cheese Healthy? Compared to What?

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  1. So, I have this “patient” (yeah it’s myself) who has been eating wfpb for a couple of years, lot’s of fiber, plants and almost everything 100% whole foods.

    He has always had a nice firm “type 4” stool on the Bristol Stool Chart, which made him pretty proud.https://www.continence.org.au/pages/bristol-stool-chart.html

    But during the last few months without any clear change in his diet, the stool turned into more of a “type 5” or “type 6” on the chart.

    What could be the problem/solution here? I’ve already put him on a high-quality probiotics supplement without avail. And seems to me, he is already doing everything right diet-wise with regular exercise.

    1. Well, sometimes probiotics can cause it, so maybe there was a change there.

      If you were my dog, I would give you a little bit of pumpkin.

      1. Speaking of dogs, have you changed which dogs you are petting or which human beings you let into your house. I won’t do the have you slept with a bad bacteria person recently, but maybe you need to hand sanitize after handling the shopping carts if you are following the chicken eaters?

        1. Our microbiome isn’t so sensitive that petting a carnivorous animal or hanging out with meat eaters could alter a healthy gut flora with someone on a WFPB diet. If we contracted any of that bacteria, it wouldn’t stand a chance with the rich flora from a WFPB diet. And our natural design wouldn’t have made us so freakishly sensitive, if it did we wouldn’t be here right now.

          1. ^Of course if you’re living in a house with heavy meat eaters and sharing the same kitchen all the time, maybe it would have a negative impact. Butchers are not only themselves predisposed to disease but so are their families. Same with “farmers” of animals. On the other hand, being around companion animals such as dogs and cats was shown to improve health or longevity or both (going by memory, it was in “How Not To Die”).

            1. I was just wondering what could have changed Netgogate’s microbiome.

              Assuming nobody is secretly giving Netgogate meat or dairy.

              I found some things they talked about:

              NSAIDS
              Antiobiotics
              RoundUp
              Minerals like iron, zinc
              Aluminum exposure
              Inflammation
              Infection
              An immune system response

              1. Interesting stuff, Deb. Come to think of it, couldn’t contracting a virus or something have an effect? Maybe you were onto something about picking something up somewhere.

              1. jenell, I leared about that in Dr. Greger’s book “How Not To Die” I believe in the infectious disease chapter if I’m not mistaken. I don’t remember the details of it though, I need to re-read it. I highly recommend the book though!

    2. I’d been adding one tbsp of ground flaxseeds to my breakfast cereal for a quarter of a century, but this summer I had to stop the practice because flaxseeds started causing painful bowl movements. My plan is to try to introduce it again next summer.

    3. Hi, I believe that lots of mucus and junk attaches to our colon walls (etcetera) that we are not aware of. This is one
      reason why some people get colonics and I am not suggesting you get one. Perhaps part of your cleansing is the
      releasing of the old junk you did not know was there. For instance I have not eaten dairy for years, and avoid
      wheat/gluten, yet my nose drips in the winter from “something”. I have also read that if people consume GMO foods
      it can cause a digestive problem and/or releasing effect in the body, or an allergen can create the same effect. namaste’, rachel

    4. Don’t forget that beans were shown to significantly bulk things up. But if you haven’t made any dietary changes and things changed, maybe you should look into other factors of which I know nothing about so couldn’t offer anything lol.

    5. Netgogate, I noticed this problem when I ate beans with store bought corn tortilla chips, but it doesn’t happen to me if I combine corn tortillas with beans.

      I also had this problem when I ate 100% whole wheat bread from the grocery store. Interestingly, it does not happen to me when I make bread at home where I grind my own wheat flour from wheat berries and make my own sourdough starter, which is made by capturing local culture in the air.

      I would dump the probiotics. If you want something like that, just make some sauerkraut. You have to make it, because grocery store sauerkraut is pasteurized which kills the live culture. Sauerkraut is easy to make, it’s interesting and tastes wonderful. It’s truly a delicious addition to most meals.

      If you are consuming a culture for health reasons, you are much better off capturing your own local culture, instead of buying cultures that were captured from only God knows where. On the internet, there are descriptions of horrible health problems caused by probiotics. Dr. Greger addresses this issue from about the middle to the end of this video: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/culture-shock-questioning-the-efficacy-and-safety-of-probiotics/

    1. Tom. My final post on this forum. Hooray, I hear ! The following contribution blocked and censored (yet again) by Dr Greger. I believe my previous post on CLA and saturated dairy fat was also blocked but cannot be certain. In this instance, also prevented from posting comments, other than replies to comments.
      Consider the double standards. Dr G selectively using data to criticise the dairy/cheese industry, and selectively censoring public comments which provide an opposing view. Its just propaganda masquerading as science.
      Cannot be taken seriously.

      ‘One can endlessly argue whether dairy products are beneficial or not, but the overwhelming evidence is they at least do no harm. And in all probability are very beneficial. For 50 years (starting with Ancel Keyes) consumers were told by the ‘experts’ that dairy was harmful. That (Omega-6 rich) vegetable oils were a safer option. Fast forward to 2018 and no-one believes it any more. Except for hard core vegans. Billions are scrambling to consume more dairy.

      “I have a dream, a dream to provide every Chinese person, especially our children, ‘1 jin’ of nourishing milk a day.”

      Chinese Premier, Wen Jiabao

      http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-04/26/content_577182.htm

      Even Americans are ignoring the fanatics (sorry) and increasingly embracing cheese. For example, the recently announced $555 million dollar cheese plant in Michigan ( https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/2018/11/15/dairy-plant-glanbia-st-johns/1942404002/)

      Show me any $500 million investments in fake cheese factories, or even $50 million.
      Seems to me Dr Gs selective message is not getting through where it should, to the masses. There is good reason why this is so. On the bulk of evidence its just not believable.

  2. Dr Greger,

    Thank you for this series! It helps me understand where the whole fermented is good for you information came from.

    I think you talked about fermented yogurt being the exception where there is some benefit? I don’t eat dairy yogurt either, but I am trying to understand the wider concepts.

    But this was about saturated fats, so high fat yogurt would still have the same detriment is what I am hearing.

      1. Back to date sugar? I need to understand whether it is the insulin / blood glucose or the type of artery clogging less fluffy fats that Keto talks about.

        1. Deb, why even waste your time trying to debate a Keto supporter? Just let them go.
          It’s like Republicans and Democrats debating…. it gets nowhere. lol

          1. Casper,

            LOL! Some of us are related to and work with radical Democrats and radical Republicans and are literally surrounded by Keto.

            I am going to 3 or 4 Christmas parties and nearly everybody at all of them will be Keto and they are going to argue Thomas Seyfried for Cancer and Dr. Berg and Dr. Fung and the ones who won’t be Keto will be elderly “moderation” people or SAD diet sugar addicts, who will be lectured that all carbs are sugar.

            Some of us love these people, but do not want to get trampled by the science they bring to the table.

            1. Yes, they will point to my brain problems and I could just turn around and point back to their Diabetes, Cancer, Heart Attacks, Strokes, Back Pain and other things and have a miserable holiday.

              Or I could show up understanding Autophagy and the Dairy studies and the whole fluffy fat thing and I can be polite and listen and be a peacemaker.

              1. They are going to do Dr. Amen and Dr. Bredesen and tell me how much better their brains feel the more fats they eat.

                I have been unprepared enough to answer everything in the past. Getting better.

            2. Deb, You can throw in my sad story at holiday parties if you wish, though of course it isn’t research. In 2010 I was diagnosed with an aggressive triple negative breast cancer. Only 15% of breast cancer is this type, with no receptors for estrogen or progesterone. I was 67 at the time. Since then I’ve met only four other women with this type of cancer.

              In reading about alternatives I discovered that most people who had healed cancers using alternative treatments had become vegan or vegetarian. Early on I did an alternative form of chemo and a raw vegan diet. It shrunk the tumor, but it came back with a roar as soon as I added cheese back into my diet. At some point I read The China Study, and subsequently began eating a whole food plant only diet. I did further chemo (which was pretty useless) and had a mastectomy, which found live cancer still in the original tumor, despite all the drugs.

              Two of those other four women with triple negative breast cancer were put on ketogenic diets by their acupuncturist. Both were much younger than me, one only in her mid 30s. I’m not sure how the other two women, who were also younger than me, ate, but I don’t think any of them stopped dairy. Sadly, all four of them lived only about 18 months after diagnosis. I have been thriving ever since. I can’t help thinking my diet has kept cancer from returning, based on the lifetime work of T Colin Campbell and many others.

              1. Rebecca, I am sorry to hear about your cancer diagnosis. It sounds as though you are doing very well.

                Breast cancer runs through my family, and I was diagnosed with it 4 years ago (at age 63; I recently learned that with my family history, I had a 1 in 2 chance of getting it). But, I was the oldest person at age of diagnosis, and at the time I wondered if my diet could have had anything to do with it — I’d been vegetarian for 42 years by then. And then I thought, Nah, how could it?

                Now, after having discovered this website and others, I think that it possibly could have. And I wish I’d know 40 years ago what I know now; I might have eaten a much healthier plant based diet. As it was, in the past I was constantly bombarded by “concerns” that a vegetarian diet was unhealthy, with insufficient protein, yadda, yadda, yadda.

                Both my husband (diagnosed with prostate cancer 13 years ago, before we met 10 years ago) and I have switched from vegetarian to eating a plant based whole foods diet, and are trying to cut back on added oil, salt, and sugar (all of which I seem to love, sadly). We like to sing out: More Beans & Greens!! Fingers crossed for all of us!

                btw, a younger age at diagnosis usually means a more aggressive cancer. And sadly, after surgery, as a rough rule of thumb, the treatments only help about 1 in 10 patients who undergo them.

                1. Dr. J.

                  Thanks for sharing your story, too.

                  My mother died of Breast Cancer at 53. I can think about the foods the television and news and doctors were pushing as healthy and it was eggs, dairy, and chicken and it breaks my heart. My father has been happily remarried for 20 years, but his second wife was diagnosed with Breast Cancer around the age you were diagnosed. Stage 0 and it never came back. She had a stroke, which likely came from the same diet, but I am grateful that she didn’t face Cancer again.

                  1. Deb, I am sorry about your mom. And I am glad to read that your dad has been happily remarried, since it sounds as though you’ve accepted your stepmother in his life. His story reminds me of my husband’s: his first wife died of breast cancer at age 60 (first diagnosed at about age 48), and then, 6 years after we were married, I was diagnosed with breast cancer (stage 1). And he told me, when he was diagnosed with prostate cancer two years after his wife died, his reaction was incredulity.

                    I think diet is very important, as is not smoking, not drinking, and exercising. But it’s no guarantee of anything. At least plant based whole food is sustainable, environmentally friendlier, better for animals and workers, not involved in the development of antibiotic resistance — and did I say delicious?

                    btw, my pet theory is liver — which I hated! My mother loved it, and made us all eat it! I think it’s toxic!! (ok, I know this is silly, but I really do hate, abhor, and detest, and worse, liver!!)

              2. Rebecca,

                I am so honored that you shared your story with me! You have been through so much. My heart goes out to you. Especially that you lost your friends and that the doctors put them on Keto. The doctors and vets around here are advising Keto and I do have more than one person around me who has cancer and diabetes and who has had heart attacks and strokes. A few people have had their loved ones die. I am not in competitive mode against them. I know from experience that the ones who don’t laugh at them or mock them or argue with them are the ones they will go to eventually and I want them to know that I care about them, more than I care about winning debates.

                Yes, my friends with Keto aren’t really getting healed. They are having their weight and blood sugar and insulin need go down and may even affect their cancers if they do a 5% animal product plus water fasting or mimicking fasting version of fasting or even intermittent fasting, but they aren’t doing that. I told one of them, Dr. Berg has people do 10 servings of vegetables per day and has them limit their animal products to a minimal amount. They have a version of Keto, which is more like Atkins than what he really has them do.

                WFPB made more sense to me, but I have watched the doctors they are watching and I am not shrinking back, I will watch those doctors even more to understand their science and their arguments. It has taken me so long to get to where I am but I have another month before Christmas and who knows, I might even know the studies names and things like that by then.

                I am still listening to science music videos. So far, I have learned the parts of a cell, cellular respiration – glycolysis, the Krebs cycle, and electron transport chain, diffusion and active transport, protein synthesis, immune system, DNA structure (Though that is new. I only watched it once and can only maybe do words rather than concepts, things like nucleic acid, polypeptide, double helix, chromosome, the number 49, the concept of a sugar as part of it, nucleotide, ribosome, codon… and the letters ATCG, which stand for things, which end with the letters ine. Yes, I am not so sophisticated at it yet, but I just watch a few videos per day and then rewatch them over and over again until it sinks in.)

              1. “Low carbohydrate dietary patterns favouring animal-derived protein and fat sources, from sources such as lamb, beef, pork, and chicken, were associated with higher mortality, whereas those that favoured plant-derived protein and fat intake, from sources such as vegetables, nuts, peanut butter, and whole-grain breads, were associated with lower mortality, “

    1. It’s been my understanding that the only benefits form yogurt, would be the probiotics added to them. But that’s like taking a probiotic supplement wrapped in a harmful (and cruel) animal product.

      I don’t think it showed at all that sugar is as bad as saturated fat, it just said that replacing cheese with pure refined sugar might be as bad.

      1. ^And only in one regard no less. I mean if you dissected the different impacts pure refined sugar had on health vs the different impacts dairy had on health, who knows what they’d have to say… though I have a suspicion overall.

        1. Wondering what your suspicion is.

          Yes, pure refined sugar versus dairy is what I am wondering.

          The thing is, my friends and family went between SAD and Keto and all of them have sweet tooths, but the Keto people manage to get off sugar. Mostly. Though, birthdays and holidays is when we all fall off the wagon and I already am eating too many of the 92% cacao squares. I guess I am glad it is that, but I always was a sucker for chocolate and went without it for a very long time because once I started supplementing Magnesium the chocolate cravings stopped overnight, but I am no longer supplementing Magnesium and I wonder if I am eating things with it or just chocolate. Anyway, we all have sweet tooths and I find that the transition people often just break one thing off at a time. Dairy, oil, salt, sugar or meat? Meat seems to be the worse one on this list, but where is sugar on the list? The Rice Diet and the McDougall Diet allow sugar for palatability, so the sentence in this video made me curious.

          1. Okay, I have paused at the chart where the “sugar” sentence is.

            Sugar is slightly better. Barely. -.5

            Just about the same risk factor.

            I was trying to research it on PubMed for myself and I found one of those studies, which did the comparison of replacing saturated fats with carbs and they said that refined carbs / sugar and say that sugar is worse than fat and that it is sugar that is the area people need to focus.

            Starches become my question because they paired starch and sugar and refined carbs to saturated fats and moved whole grains to a different category. I did find another study, which said that replacing saturated fat with any carb (except pure sugar) or PUFA or MUFA showed an improvement. Starch becomes the one I don’t understand as well.

            1. I am laughing that they say that it is starches and sugars, which make it worse and I am already permanently banned from Dr. McDougall’s site for going off-topic. They didn’t have someone like Tom or Ron or Liisa or Nancy or YR etc. to talk concepts through with. Just police officer types to catch you for mentioning a conference topic. I could have used someone handing me a PubMed link or any WFPB doctor link.

              I guess what I understand right now is that they aren’t going to let people question things like whether starches make things worse, even if it is in PubMed and it is probably a scam, but I could use the disproving the scam link.

              It seems to me, like some of us want to double check everything and to understand it.

              Series like this one are so important because if you go to PubMed, you do get the favorable studies on top. Maybe that is why I am not frustrated at all with people like Greg. He is reading Dr. Mirkin and maybe PubMed or some of the journals themselves. How could people possibly sort it out without help unless they really do understand the statistics and if 90% of doctors don’t? I have lots of grace for people who become confused.

              Those of us with brain issues wrestle through every single point and have to. I might trust WFPB more conceptually, but I read Dr. Mirkin’s site and I have to deal with his teachings and put it in context. Doctors want people to just accept their processes, but we are in the crossfire between multiple camps of authorities all saying opposing things. To me, if the people aren’t sure about the science, they need that first and when science has argued for 50 years on some topics, we need more than 2 minutes to make our minds up.

              Don’t get me wrong, I gave up dairy and I am not dissing what Dr. Greger said. I just need time to verify everything.

              1. I just realized that I got banned the first comment at Dr McDougalls site and still have never read The Starch Solution and if I had gone there first, I would have shown up with Alzheimer’s symptoms still got banned just as quick, but I would never have heard any of it.

                I would never have heard of Whole Food Plant Based and would never have heard about the Diabetes studies or Heart Studies or Cancer Studies and I showed up here knowing zero science and zero nutrition and would have been banned for life in a day or two and my dog would be dead.

                That was a scary thought. I had never heard John speak and had no concept that he was vegan.

                If I hadn’t googled funny vegan doctor with glasses, I really might be Keto right now and I am not kidding.

                I had Cancer symptoms and brain problems, if I had chosen the wrong vegan doctor I would not have a dog right now.

                1. I still haven’t read The Starch Solution or Dr Fuhrmans book or Dr Ornish’s book or Dr Barnard’s books or seen Forks Over Knives. It is as if I saw my attempt at WFPB life hang on the smallest decision.

                  1. Every human being that I know personally would have gotten banned and none of them have heard of any of you and their doctors aim toward Keto.

                    They are too quick on the draw at McDougall’s site. I am already banned for life without even having read The Starch Solution to know if I actually would have questions.

                    1. I don’t thik they have done the math. People need to show up doing McDougall Program and not accodently go off topic which the people might not know what off topic is.

          2. Deb, I would GUESS that collectively, although I have no doubt that refined sugar is harmful, that dairy would be significantly more harmful overall. Again, this is my guess. I’m not saying either one would be remotely healthy. I do well on cacao but if you don’t like to eat a lot of it and you’re looking for more magnesium, one of my favorite sources is hemp seeds. 3 tbsp of hulled hemp contains 50% DV of magnesium plus it’s a great source of omega-3’s, GLA, and uniquely, SDA.

            In my personal experience which is obviously completely anecdotal, I’ve found this… I definitely have a sweet tooth occasionally but it’s mostly for fruit and the more fruit I eat, the less I’m even attracted to or enjoy something really sweet. But when I do, I don’t freak out about using more natural sweeteners like maple syrup, coconut sugar and things like that.
            Before, when I used to eat something very sweet with a lot of refined sugar, I used to get what I would call, sugar headaches. But eating something like my really, really sweet treat of almond butter, cacao powder and a generous amount of maple syrup, does not seem to make me feel sick or have any negative impact whereas back in the day, eating something that sweet made from refined sugar would give me a serious headache among other things. Could be because I always mix these things with fiber and antioxidant rich plant foods but I feel my body responds differently to the different sweeteners based on personal observation.
            I did notice last Christmas, when I had tons of healthiER rice crispy treats left over made with vegan marshmallows, and I was eating those kind of like an addict (they’re just so good!), I started to feel not so good and had caught a virus which I normally never catch.

            For oil and salt, I’m not oil or salt free but I use it in moderation when I do use it and consciously. For example, I only use certified extra virgin olive oil or if I absolutely need to cook with oil to accomplish a recipe (which is rare), I use a good quality avocado oil in small amounts due to the high smoke point. And I will not touch table salt.. I have theories about that. So I’m low oil and low salt and don’t eat oil everyday and don’t even necessarily consume added salt everyday. When I use these things, they’re always paired with whole plant foods rich in antioxidants and fiber. I don’t seem to be negatively affected by my using them in moderation (mind you I’m young and don’t have heart disease to contend with) and I have compared it to when I was not using any oil and I did go salt free completely for a full week. When I was salt free for an entire week I did not notice any change other than experiencing being significantly physically weaker (not to alarming points, but noticeably and it was irritating). I’m really active so this could be why, I don’t know. That was just my experience though.

            Dairy I did horrible on. My health significantly increased when I stopped eating dairy which was my only regular animal product in my diet prior to going vegan.

            And in case you’re wondering, here is my humble little theory on table salt (I feel kind of silly sharing it because I am not an anthropologist or biologist or any kind of authority on the subject, so I stress, HUMBLE theory)… Given that our kidneys (healthy kidneys) are so intelligent in design in the way they’re able to increase absorption when we’re getting low sodium and decrease absorption when we’re getting more sodium than we need and this is something we evolved to be able to do, I would first suspect that despite the theory that our ancestors had extremely low sodium intake, that sodium intake was vastly different throughout the millennia based on region and other factors… why else would our kidney’s be so good at learning to excrete excess, I wonder. In any case though, they’ve evolved to be intelligent enough to do so. But this reminds me of how our body evolved to stop the absorption of NON-heme iron but did not evolve to have a mechanism to stop heme iron absorption when we’re getting too much.
            So while our bodies can be intelligent in dealing with a natural substance, it has to be the natural substance that we evolved to metabolize in the first place. I do not consider table salt, which is incredibly refined (stripped of trace elements, bleached, given additives such as anti-caking agents) a natural substance that our bodies would have ever evolved to metabolize properly. I’m not arguing pro-salt, but I do suspect that table salt and natural salts are metabolized differently in the body and even suspect that the highly refined table salt is like putting a completely foreign substance in our bodies. I’m not aware of any good (or any) studies on this so I’m just going by my own thoughts.

  3. I was wondering if any amount of saturated fat is good for you. I eat a plant -based diet and have eaten one most of my life. (I was a “vegan” many years before the word was widely used). However, I was wondering if a little coconut oil every once in a while could be a net positive or what is the ideal level of saturated fat in a plant based diet?

    1. A little Coconut oil is probably not going to adversely affect you (IF) your TBC is around 150, consistently.
      Also, it depends on your definition of “a little”.

    2. Nuts and whole coconut contains a sufficient amount of saturated fat, anyways your gut flora makes saturated fatty acids from some fibers in the colon but anyways saturated fat are not essential, only few grams of omega 3 and 6 are essential fatty acids long term.

    3. You are lready consuming saturated fat as part of a WFPB diet. Even oats are more than 1% saturated fat by weight – and an even higher percentage as a proportion of total calories. Then there are nuts and seeds……………..
      https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/breakfast-cereals/1597/2

      Why would you want to consume a concentrated source of saturated fatty acids? The only fatty acids that we need to obtain from the diet are certain PUFAs – not SFAs.. You might find it useful to look at Dr G’s videos on cocnut oil before going ahead
      https://nutritionfacts.org/?s=coconut+oil

    4. Hi, Jack Morrison! There is some saturated fat in a whole food, plant-based diet if it includes nuts and seeds. When you get your saturated fat from whole foods such as nuts, it appears to have a protective effect on cardiovascular health. Coconut oil is not recommended, because it is removed from the whole food and has a similar effect to that of saturated fat from animal sources. You can find everything on this site related to coconut oil here: https://nutritionfacts.org/?s=coconut+oil I hope that helps!

      1. Yes, we see your face here regularly and we know that we are all indebted to your grandfather.

        (Laughing because most of us didn’t want to call you out, but since someone brought it up, this once, I shall pass a thank you to your family.)

  4. Nutrition expert to heart patients: ‘Eat some cheese’ | Cardiology News –

    http://www.mdedge.com/ecardiologynews/article/129125/lipid-disorders/nutrition-expert-heart-patients-eat-some-cheese?utm_source=News_Power_eNL_012217&utm_medium=email&utm_content=January's%20Top%20News%20Headlines

    Eating cheese every day may help to protect heart health – https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320249.php?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weekly-us

    ** Cheese and yogurt (with no added sugar) lower high blood sugar and insulin and are not associated with increased risk for heart attacks or diabetes (Nutr Rev, 2015;73(5):259-275) or gaining weight (BMC Med, 2014;12:215).

    ** A review of the scientific literature found 18 articles following 363,557 participants for 3 to 23 years and the authors showed that yogurt and cheese are associated with decreased risk for hip fractures (BMC Public Health, February 02, 2018). People who ate a lot of yogurt or cheese had a 25 to 32 percent lower risk of hip fractures than those who ate little or no cheese or yogurt.
    ** Studies showed that cheese is associated with reduced risk for becoming diabetic (Nutr Rev, 2015;73(S1):15-22) and eating cheese and yogurt lowers risk for type II diabetes by 25 percent (Am J Clin Nutr, April 2015).

    ** Among more than 6500 overweight people who ate a healthful Mediterranean diet with fish, those who also ate lots of fermented dairy products (cheese and plain yogurt) had lower markers of diabetes, such as low good HDL cholesterol and high triglycerides (Nutrition, Metabolism and Cardiovascular Diseases, May 21, 2018).

    ** Recent studies question the dogma associating saturated fats and cholesterol in milk with heart attack risk (Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol, Sept 2016;36(9):2011-8; Am J Clin Nutr, Feb 2016;103(2):356-65). High-fat but galactose-free yogurt, cheese and other fermented dairy products may even help to prevent heart attacks (Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry, April 2015;63(10):2830-9). People who ate a lot of cheese had very high levels of healthful butyrate in their stool and urine and much lower blood levels of the bad LDL cholesterol. This means that the fermented dairy products appear to be converted by bacteria in the intestines to butyrate that help prevent food from forming the bad LDL cholesterol that is associated with increased heart attack risk (Am J Clin Nutr, Feb, 2016;103(2):356-65). The authors showed that fermented dairy products encourage the growth of healthful intestinal bacteria that may help to prevent heart attacks.

    1. Not even going to attempt a rebuttal of Greg’s message. Clearly, he’s a Weston Price troll, and missed this video’s entire message.

      I’m so over trying to get through to dairy supporters.

      Why do we in the plant based community really care if these people want to continue to increase their risks of heart disease, cancer, etc if they are hell bent on consuming animal foods?

      I think we should only focus on ill individuals who are open-minded, and let the others do what they want.

      It’s like trying to convince a 50-year smoker to stop. Pointless, and we gain nothing from it.

      1. Because the epidemic of dietary diseases is bankrupting the country from it’s unsustainable burden on medicare. And the western diet is the largest contributor to global environmental destruction (see “Cowspiracy”). And factory farming is the institutionalized torture and murder of helpless sentient beings.

        1. Blair,

          Dr. Kim said that if the elderly don’t start doing something like WFPB and get off blood pressure meds, Medicare could go bankrupt in about 3 years. That is an astounding forewarning!

          My cousin is on Dialysis and is on a transplant list now and I can’t even handle that the doctors pushed him away from WFPB when his kidneys started to have problems and the cost of Dialysis is $72,000 per year and they told him that the cost of the transplant would be $400,000! I don’t even understand that they haven’t started training nursing home chefs and invading the senior centers and maybe giving medicare incentives for people to go WFPB.

          1. Isn’t this astounding at the huge impact this could have on our country?!?
            It amazes me that no one seems to be effective at engineering something–especially someone with big money interests; it’s all grassroots work….

      2. Greg regularly does a copy/paste dump of papers attempting to argue that meat/diary/eggs are healthful. He doesn’t respond to rebuttals that these are eg:

        . industry funded studies or studies conducted by people with financial and other ties to those industries or to the Atkins Diet empire
        . the studies are observational and therefore subject to multiple confounding factors
        . they take little or no account of replacement nutrients … in other words what were the people not eating dairy etc eating instead – red meat? processed meat (burgers, hot dogs,ham, bacon etc)? refined carbohydrates? etc
        . they also completely ignore/dismiss the huge mass of scientific evidence to the contrary by dismissing it as ‘dogma’ [see the unsourced quote Greg has pasted above] and citing only the handful of (often industry funded) studies that appear to support their claims.

        It would be interesting to know where Greg has copied this stuff from.

    2. Greg, thanks SO much for the propaganda by the dairy industry. It’s always really exciting to come across a real life dairy industry troll… the way you guys never give up even with the overwhelming wall of truth right in front of you… you just keep hitting your heads trying to walk right on through it bless your little hearts.

  5. Cheeses loves me this I know, for the dairy industry told me so. The Lard works in mysterious ways, and industry even keeps trying to paint that as a health food too.

    1. Reality Bites, that one is going to stick with me for a long time.

      “The Lard works in mysterious ways” might just be a comment I use at Christmas.

      1. Deb, I’ll be singing the first one at Christmas. I live near “Dutch country” where the PA Dutch have a fairly strong accent. When they say ‘Jesus’, it sounds an awful lot like ‘cheeses.’

        1. Nancy,

          Laughing about the accents.

          I have relatives from Boston, Maine, and from the South and from other countries and accents make life interesting.

          Many years ago, we were meeting some friends on an out of state trip and they told us to meet them in Paris cove, which was really Pirates Cove, and it became a fascinating misadventure.

    2. Yes they are, omg… so many blogs including those by “doctors” citing lard as a healthy fat. And I love their usual list of omega-3 recommendations… fatty fish, krill, grass fed “beef,” more animal products, more animal products… and then when they get to the plant products it’s flax OIL. Apparently whole flax is not a thing nor are walnuts, purslane, chia, hemp… some of the best sources of omega-3’s.

      Anyways, good one.

  6. I agree wholeheartedly with Casper. Also worth mention what dairy products do to the immune system. Focussing on the ill effects of dairy products to the cardiovascular system is a bit like focussing on the part of the iceberg over the waterline. Dairy products are mostly damaging to the immune system. And I am unfortunately speaking from experience.

    1. Absolutely, Antoine.

      The thing you’ll never see is blood test results from any of these animal food supporters.
      And if they do, like “Layne Norton” showed his followers, he actually argues that his High Cholesterol is totally fine.

      That’s the problem… they just make excuse after excuse and create ways to spin it, and make themselves feel better.

      But that doesn’t change the death statistics. And millions dying every year from preventable diseases obviously isn’t coming from the plant-based community because clearly we are like 2-5% of the population at best.

      1. “and make themselves feel better”

        More sad than that, these people out there advocating this stuff aren’t just trying to make themselves feel better, they’re deliberately working at misleading the public. And a vast majority of the public go in for it no matter how clearly ridiculous because it DOES make them feel better about their poor choices and what is essentially an addiction in some form or another. It’s pretty easy to mislead an entire public by telling them what they’d prefer to hear and they take advantage of this and use it, shamelessly.

        1. What I have learned is that human animals want to justify what we do as okay. If one study

          says what we consume is not so unhealthy our ego wants to agree. The labels “free-range,

          cage-free, humanely raised, and organic” are used by animal agriculture to help consumers continue

          to eat their products and give them a good feeling that they are not “so” bad for the animals. The

          reality is that animals are still cruelly raised and treated and still die a horrible early death.

          The challenge is for us to take a look at the reality of the issue and make a humane and healthy

          choice for the animals, not our palate and habits. have a kind and loving holiday, namaste’, rachel

          1. Exactly, rachel. That is exactly it. And you’re completely correct about the animals. Even though those labels don’t mean anything, if a “farm” is actually one of the rare “free” range places, in almost every single case, those animals are still sent to the exact same slaughterhouses (which are like more hideous depictions of hell than man has yet to imagine) as factory farmed animals where they are demonically tortured (the only way I can accurately describe it). And I’ve also watched what happens to the animals on the even RARER already rare “free” range farms who are killed on site, and their deaths are also extremely horrific, painful, long, and just overall, again, horrifying. The animals scream and struggle no less when they’re killed on site than elsewhere.

            1. When my son was about 10-12, he went to visit a friend who lived on a farm. They gave my son the job of killing the chicken that was to be eaten for dinner. That did it. My son is 29 now and has been a vegan ever since–and this was a “friendly,” “family” farm–not a CAFO.

              1. Wow, Liisa… You must have been LIVID that these people thought it was at all appropriate to make another person’s child under their supervision, kill an animal… what hideous people. That’s awesome that your son went vegan over this, some may have went the other way and got a little (or a lot) colder for it. Your son sounds like an innately smart, thoughtful and caring person! Clearly you’ve raised him well.

            2. And it should not be assumed that on the rare “free” range and family owned and run farms, that there isn’t horrific abuse on them. These animals are a means of profit, not sentient beings to the farmers no matter how much of a “family fun, humane, smiling cartoon pig face” spin they put on it.

              Mind you, with dairy, abuse and torment is necessary for the production of it in the first place. While there are lots of extra abuses you wouldn’t expect and so often extremely mentally unsound, abusive people are the ones who “work” with these animals even on “family farms” and you wouldn’t be able to stand to watch how they treat these animals, the most basic practices that must go into the production of dairy in order for there to be a production of dairy are some of the most perversely cruel acts that occur on this planet.

            3. Yes. I know this may be off topic however so many videos are informative but deal

              with FOOD and what is unhealthy or healthy. It becomes easy to get distracted

              by the “food” focus versus caring about the suffering of animals for animal flesh,

              dairy, eggs and fish. Even when I consumed these substances I could not have

              killed an animal for their proteins.

              In addition, poverty is created as a result of

              wealthier countries buying up large quantities of plant foods such as soy and corn

              (to feed farm animals) leaving poor people unable to afford them. Of course thousands

              of acres of rainforest have been decimated to grow soy for farm animals as well.

              Studies show that loyalty to a healthy vegan diet is much stronger and lasting

              when the reasons for becoming vegan are because of the mis-treatment to the

              animals, not simply because of our palate and vegan choices.

              Animal agriculture is well aware human animals feel compassion and kindness

              toward others. They hide how animals are mis-treated and have had anti-gag laws

              passed in several states to suppress and intimidate undercover videos from showing the truth.

              The U.S. USDA has helped animal ag continue to do whatever it wants to animals

              in terms of what they are fed, drugs/antibiotics they receive, how they are raised, gene

              modification of their bodies, GMO’s fed to them, and more.

              We must continue to use kindness, compassion and love toward animals as motivators.

              1. “Studies show that loyalty to a healthy vegan diet is much stronger and lasting

                when the reasons for becoming vegan are because of the mis-treatment to the

                animals, not simply because of our palate and vegan choices.”

              2. Sorry but I disagree. This is a nutrition site not a vegan advocacy site. It would lose all credibility as a reliable and trustworty source of nutritional information if it went down the vegan advocacy road.

                1. You are correct Tom it is not a vegan advocacy site. My comment was that if we JUST focus

                  on the nutrition studies, on this site, it is easy to lose sight of the suffering of animals which

                  is an issue of being vegan. The animals also deserve consideration. namaste’, rachel

    2. Did you have an autoimmune condition?

      When you said, “iceberg above the waterline” for some reason, my mind went to lettuce, instead of Titanic.

  7. On a related topic the Australian Heart Foundation recommends people eat 6 eggs/week. How could this be? The Australian Egg Board recently supported one of these fake studies comparing eggs to something bad and concluding eggs aren’t bad for you. It got a lot of press

    1. McMaster University is a partner of the Canadian dairy industry.
      https://www.dairyfarmers.ca/who-we-are/our-partners

      Dairy foods are high in sodium and fat. The McMaster team has coincidentally been producing papers based on the PURE study that attempt to argue, contrrary to the bulk of scientific evidence, that dairy foods and high levels of sodium and saturated fat consumption are healthful or at least harmless. Here are some criticisms of the conclusions drawn by the authors of those papers

      https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2017/09/08/pure-study-makes-headlines-but-the-conclusions-are-misleading/
      https://www.huffpost.com/entry/diet-and-health-puzzling-past-paradox-to-pure-understanding_b_59a81d10e4b02498834a8f27
      https://nutritionstudies.org/pure-studys-conclusions-fats-carbs-misleading/
      https://www.foodpolitics.com/2017/09/the-pure-study-lets-get-skeptical/

      McDougall also did a webinar on this
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMq-YcoPY3U

  8. There are some cheese like foods that are mostly vegetable based, except for the ingredient Milk Proteins that is pretty far down the list.

    How do these compare to real cheese healthwise? Has it been put to the test?

  9. I’m disappointed you didn’t vocalize palm oil in that last part of the video. I hope there’s a video on palm oil in the near future. The stuff is not only horrible for health in a number of ways (including additives derived from it such as palmitate which may be harmful to bones and is even added in the majority of plant milks and additives put in skin care products which may be harmful to skin) but it’s also one of the most unsustainable products on the planet and one of the cruelest to animals and even humans (people in Borneo put out a petition begging that people stop the demand for palm oil, for one example among many). It’s one of the leading causes for deforestation and this all for a convenient and unhealthy additive which is being touted as a “healthy fat” similar to the way coconut oil has been.

  10. Sorry for the double comment in a row but I also wanted to share my takeaway from the evidence presented in the video… Before going vegan and then WFPB vegan a bit later, I was a vegetarian since I was little. So it looks like me replacing meat on a sandwich with cheese, for example, was “healthier” but from my experience, as someone whose only source of animal products was dairy (eggs here and there but never regularly or in abundance), cutting that out when going vegan I experienced DRAMATIC changes in health for the better, most immediate digestive issues and congestion. And that was going to a vegan version of a standard american diet, I was not anywhere near whole foods based at that point. Needless to say, my health experienced greater and greater improvements as I shifted towards a more WFPB diet.

  11. I thought this video was about cheese. How come so few of the comments are? Is there a place on this website I can ask direct questions and get answers?

    1. All the comments I read are about dairy, but people often will have other discussions about nutritional science under the newest videos because most of the commenters follow the videos regularly on this site, and it’s more likely to get a response under newer videos. Plus, there are a lot of really bright people here and you can get some incredible insight just in the comments section.

      So yeah, here is the place where you’re most likely going to get a response to a question. Sometimes people will ask questions off topic on the latest video thread instead of a much older video on the subject due to the likelihood of getting a response, however people do still get responses from cite volunteers under older videos.

    2. hi Bill, I saw your question but didnt reply since I haven’t eaten any of the vegan cheese prod ucts out there. I haven’t used the vegan ‘butter’ or fake meat products either. But, if I was going to try some (with the holidays coming up, I might have need of a product or two) then I would simply read the nutrition label for a start, and then the ingredient list. Here is a page about some cheese products available in north america. https://www.vegan.com/cheese/
      I dont know what kinds of tests you were wondering about, but in general the same ideas apply. We really need to avoid saturated fat and transfats for example, so I would be checking labels for that. I want avoid soy isolates found in some cheese products, so unless it’s a once a year thing I’m making, I would pass it by. As to how these products compare healthwise to real dairy, I don’t know.

      1. Thanks for the link Barb. I was not aware of vegan cheese. I’m just getting started on following the WFPB diet.

        The test I was asking about would be like Dr G often mentions in his videos, let’s put it to the test. So I’m wondering if there is a study showing the health benefits of vegan cheese or some cheese-like food containing some milk proteins in the ingredient list vs real cheese or vs other foods like bacon and peanut butter as mentioned in this video.

        1. Bill

          I don’t think that this has ever been seriously studied. However, I suspect that the effects would depend on how the ‘vegan’ alternatives were manufactured.

          Commercial processed ‘vegan’ butters, spreads, cheeses etc etc normally use cheap hydrogenated oils, salts and sugars to replicate the taste and content of cheese, butter etc. Where I am in the Philippines for example, peanuts are cheap and avialble everywhere but the only peanut butter on the shelves contains large amounts of sugar, salt and trans fats. These will almost certainly be worse than standard butter, cheese etc – see this carefully designed study funded by the dairy industry as an example.
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4791521/

          My take is that staying away from highly processed foods – even so-called vegan foods – is the safest option. However, if you make your own and exclude such unhealthful ingredients the results would likely be very different. There are many such ‘vegan’ recipes free available on the net.

          1. Tom,

            What do you know? I’m in the Philippines too. I know what you mean about the peanut butter. Tried it once and never again. They put sugar in their spaghetti sauce too. If it’s not sugar, it’s vinegar or soy sauce.

            I did find some vegan cheese recipes by following a link from Barb. I’ll give some of those a try before I settle for vegetable oil based cheese like cheese, although finding ingredients here might not be too easy.

  12. Hey, that’s great Bill! I think you’re going to surprise yourself at how much you enjoy the wfpb lifestyle. Re studies on the vegan cheese thing.. there might be some out there at pubmed, in which case maybe a Nutrition Facts volunteer might find some for you. Until then, let me just add that many of the plant-based doctors view the ‘vegan meat and cheese’ products as transition foods ie, products that can help you as you develop a repertoire of foods that you truly enjoy. I remember Dr Greger saying though that if your grandma’s chicken soup is something you cant do without, fine, incorporate it along with all the wonderful meals you’ll be creating along the way. Some people just can’t leave behind the pizza , so maybe the cheese products come in handy there too. There is an older video you might enjoy Bill. I will post it here when I find it

      1. I love that video, too.

        He has more than one video giving his contact number.

        I laugh so much when that part comes up.

        The sign of an extroverted sweetheart.

          1. It is amazing how much of his foundational message hasn’t changed. It is interesting to see where the Daily Dozen started and to see a premonition of jokes and videos which have come in between then and now.

            I think he looks better with age. A little more twinkle to his smile and a little better comic timing.

            1. If he hadn’t gone on to become Dr Michael Gregor, I would have already contacted the number because I was already mesmerized that he gave his personal contact number and I would have wanted to find out what he would have said if someone actually called. And I would have paused and said, “I have never met a vegan”.

  13. My dog is sick of baby food and technically it has been over 3 weeks.

    I started making dinner at home again and he wanted the veggie taco ingredients and would not eat even one bite of the puréed baby food.

    He has been walking around outside hoping to come in and get some real food.

    He is looking good but he is too through with this process, so I have to try to make a vegan dog food.

  14. The overwhelming scientific evidence suggests eliminating vegetable–derived trans-fats, more so than saturated fats. Milk fats contains conjugated linoleic acid (300-500% higher in pasture-fed cows). CLA appears to have a positive medicinal benefit (albeit, not when synthesised in a lab):

    ‘9c,11t-CLA, which is present in meaningful amounts in the milk of pasture-grazed cows, might offset the adverse effect of the saturated fat content of dairy products’.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20463040

    Other references: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10428978 , https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6032244/, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3119246, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2826589/, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22648724, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23475478, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21762028

    I really struggle to find the difference between the persistently selective use of scientific data and scientific process by Dr G, the vegetable oil industry (https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/9/6/688/5090303), and no doubt any industry body, including the dairy industry. All are biased and should be mistrusted. Do not take anything they say as gospel, including Dr G. Best do your own independent research.

    Dr G is right to argue for a more plant-based diet. Much of what else he preaches should be treated with the utmost caution. If one wishes to pursue a diet that screams out ‘moderation’, you cannot go past the ‘Mediterranean’ (Crete) diet. Principally, a low-meat, vegetarian diet that includes dairy foods – but lower than currently advised in dietary guidelines. The subsequent lower intake of calcium is adjusted by a higher intake of small boned fish (particularly sardines), small portions of slow-cooked meats, and leafy greens.

    Incidentally, from both a taste and nutritional perspective there is nothing on earth that quite compares to warm sour-dough bread topped with feta cheese, olives, herbs and sun-dried tomatoes in extra-virgin oil oil. Fantastic.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2017-02-16/10-commandments-of-the-real-mediterranean-diet/7541786

    Whilst Dr G is busy belting cheese over the head with a wet lettuce, the rest of the world is ignoring. Billions of Asians are scrambling to consume more dairy.

    “I have a dream, a dream to provide every Chinese person, especially our children, ‘1 jin’ of nourishing milk a day.”

    Chinese premier, Wen Jiabao, 2006
    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-04/26/content_577182.htm

    Even Americans are busy ignoring the fanatics (no offence) and increasingly embracing cheese. For example, the recently announced $555 million dollar cheese plant (now that’s Big Dairy!) in Michigan: (https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/2018/11/15/dairy-plant-glanbia-st-johns/1942404002/)

    Tell me now, how many $555 million investments are being made in fake-cheese factories?

    1. You can believe what you want and find supportive data to follow whatever that belief is. The sad fact is that businesses do sponsor studies to desperately try to prove their products are not harmful. If you are focusing on “raw” dairy products of course raw anything is better than anything heated or pasteurized. However if you believe, as I do, that milk is meant for babies until they are weaned, and only meant for the SPECIFIC species to consume that milk, the studies supporting dairy products are pointless. You can of course consume anything you choose. The vast majority of animal milk is produced through the abuse and slavery of the animals, keeping them constantly pregnant by raping them each time, stealing their babies away, murdering or enslaving male calves, and in that process shortening their natural life of twenty plus years to much less than half of that and ultimately murdering them (sometimes while still alive and kicking). Many former dairy farmers speak out against what they used to do to the animals, others justify what they do. There are way too many reasons NOT to participate in this inhumanity. Almond “milk” is cruelty-free. namaste’, rachel

  15. I wonder if you can analyse or do a comparison between cow’s milk cheese and goat or sheep cheese. the worst product contained in cow’s milk is casein, a massive protein for the human body. I am keen on my plant based diet but I wonder if, in case I have to eat cheese, is goat or sheep a better option? Can you please have a look at it for me? Gratefully, Marianna

    1. Hi, I am vegan and do not consume any animal milk anymore but found this interesting comparison of different animal milks. We tend to become allergic to what we consume the most of, so cows’ milk would be a huge issue for most people. I still believe, after growing up in a carnivore and dairy eating household, that human animals do not need dairy products (we habitually get used to them) because–we are not babies, we are not of the same species as cows, goats, or camels, and we can get plenty of protein and nutrients from plant foods. There are delicious “vegan” cheeses made from soy and nuts like almonds or cashews. namaste’, rachel http://lactalis.com.ua/en/healthy/milkAnimals Milk of different animals – lactalis.com.ua Milk of different animals Today milk – is an obligatory food product of healthy people. It is a part of almost all diets and are widely used in the nutrition of people who deal with the impact of negative production factors.
      lactalis.com.ua

    2. Here is another interesting chart showing the protein and a few other components in different animals milks. Each animal species has milk (natures perfect food) from THAT species mother designed for THAT species infant/baby. Since we are not a cow, a goat, or a camel OUR human mothers milk is designed for us when we are babies.
      We grow up believing that we ‘need’ the milk (and products made from it) of another animal after we are weaned. namaste’, rachel http://ansci.illinois.edu/static/ansc438/Milkcompsynth/milkcomp_table.html Milk Composition – Species Table Table is adapted from course notes by Robert D. Bremel, University of Wisconsin and from Handbook of Milk Composition, by R. G. Jensen, Academic Press, 1995.
      ansci.illinois.edu

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