The Best Source of Resveratrol

The Best Source of Resveratrol
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Is there any benefit to resveratrol, and if so should we get it from wine, grapes, peanuts, or supplements?

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

Yeah: “Alcohol is a neurotoxin which can cause brain damage.” Yeah, alcohol can cause cancer. And so, perhaps the consumption of alcohol cannot be considered a healthy lifestyle choice, since it’s “an addictive carcinogen.” But, cancer is only killer #2. Killer #1 is heart disease. And so, what about the French paradox? Doesn’t moderate drinking protect against cardiovascular disease?

As I’ve explained before, there apparently is no French paradox—it seems to have been all been just a scam. But that’s what started the whole “resveratrol fiasco.” One episode on 60 Minutes suggested the red-wine component resveratrol may account for the French paradox, and “research took off.” Even after it turned out there was “no French paradox,” research continued unabated, culminating in “10,000 scientific publications” to date.

And what did they find? “[A]fter more than 20 years of well-funded research, resveratrol has no proven human activity.” “One salient theme that consistently arises throughout this voluminous body of work underscores the fact that data from human studies…is sorely lacking, despite [resveratrol’s] popularity as [a dietary’ supplement.” “[T]he hype in the popular media regarding resveratrol…may indeed turn out to be nothing more than a slight-of-hand marketing device using…non-human research as a cover.”

When you see graphics like this, they’re based on laboratory animal studies at massive doses, tens of milligrams per pound. So, if you do the math, that’s where so-called “experts” arrive at suggestions for a gram a day for people. Okay, so, how much red wine do you have to drink to get that much? Oh, just like 5,000 cups a day, or a couple thousand gallons of white wine a day, or 5,000 pounds of apples or grapes, or maybe 50,000 pounds of peanuts—that is one big PB&J—or a couple thousand pounds of chocolate. Start out with a million bottles of beer on the wall.

Of course, it doesn’t help matters when a leading resveratrol researcher is “found guilty of 145 counts of fabrication and falsification of data,” throwing the whole field into turmoil. “Wine may only be good,” this translates to, “for those who sell it.”

“The resveratrol fiasco is not the only” time dietary supplements have failed to fulfill their promise. “Notable examples include…beta-carotene” pills and fish oil capsules, where studies in the 90s showed taking beta-carotene in pill form actually increased cancer risk, and, in 2013, the shift on fish oil supplements “from ‘No Proof of Effectiveness’ to ‘Proof of No Effectiveness'”—”[t]he main lesson [being] that what makes biological sense and works in test tubes and [lab rats] does not always operate in humans.”

After all, resveratrol is only one of tens of thousands of components identified. Thinking in terms of “whole…food[s]…may be a better approach for health and disease prevention.” Like, instead of one chemical in wine extracted from grapes, how about just eating the whole grape? “[F]or the prevention of diseases, the [whole] dietary grape seems to be the best-case scenario.”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Roberta Sorge via Unsplash. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video.

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

Yeah: “Alcohol is a neurotoxin which can cause brain damage.” Yeah, alcohol can cause cancer. And so, perhaps the consumption of alcohol cannot be considered a healthy lifestyle choice, since it’s “an addictive carcinogen.” But, cancer is only killer #2. Killer #1 is heart disease. And so, what about the French paradox? Doesn’t moderate drinking protect against cardiovascular disease?

As I’ve explained before, there apparently is no French paradox—it seems to have been all been just a scam. But that’s what started the whole “resveratrol fiasco.” One episode on 60 Minutes suggested the red-wine component resveratrol may account for the French paradox, and “research took off.” Even after it turned out there was “no French paradox,” research continued unabated, culminating in “10,000 scientific publications” to date.

And what did they find? “[A]fter more than 20 years of well-funded research, resveratrol has no proven human activity.” “One salient theme that consistently arises throughout this voluminous body of work underscores the fact that data from human studies…is sorely lacking, despite [resveratrol’s] popularity as [a dietary’ supplement.” “[T]he hype in the popular media regarding resveratrol…may indeed turn out to be nothing more than a slight-of-hand marketing device using…non-human research as a cover.”

When you see graphics like this, they’re based on laboratory animal studies at massive doses, tens of milligrams per pound. So, if you do the math, that’s where so-called “experts” arrive at suggestions for a gram a day for people. Okay, so, how much red wine do you have to drink to get that much? Oh, just like 5,000 cups a day, or a couple thousand gallons of white wine a day, or 5,000 pounds of apples or grapes, or maybe 50,000 pounds of peanuts—that is one big PB&J—or a couple thousand pounds of chocolate. Start out with a million bottles of beer on the wall.

Of course, it doesn’t help matters when a leading resveratrol researcher is “found guilty of 145 counts of fabrication and falsification of data,” throwing the whole field into turmoil. “Wine may only be good,” this translates to, “for those who sell it.”

“The resveratrol fiasco is not the only” time dietary supplements have failed to fulfill their promise. “Notable examples include…beta-carotene” pills and fish oil capsules, where studies in the 90s showed taking beta-carotene in pill form actually increased cancer risk, and, in 2013, the shift on fish oil supplements “from ‘No Proof of Effectiveness’ to ‘Proof of No Effectiveness'”—”[t]he main lesson [being] that what makes biological sense and works in test tubes and [lab rats] does not always operate in humans.”

After all, resveratrol is only one of tens of thousands of components identified. Thinking in terms of “whole…food[s]…may be a better approach for health and disease prevention.” Like, instead of one chemical in wine extracted from grapes, how about just eating the whole grape? “[F]or the prevention of diseases, the [whole] dietary grape seems to be the best-case scenario.”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Roberta Sorge via Unsplash. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video.

Doctor's Note

I really like this current multi-month batch of videos in that I cover so many different interesting topics without getting too bogged down in some deep dive. I think this is the longest video series for a while, but one I’ve been wanting to do for a long time. In case you missed the last video: Can Alcohol Cause Cancer?

Stay tuned for:

Surprised about the French paradox? More in What Explains the French Paradox?

Can resveratrol supplements do more harm than good? Check out Resveratrol Impairs Exercise Benefits.

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

201 responses to “The Best Source of Resveratrol

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  1. Hi Dr. Greger,
    I have a question related to nutrition but not to resveratrol specifically. (I just wasn’t sure where to post it.) I adopted a whole foods plant-based diet for about six months and experienced a number of anticipated and unanticipated benefits. But I also experienced persistent cognitive fog, constant hunger, and symptoms of hypoglycemia – despite shunning refined carbs and added sugars, supplementing with sublingual cyanocobalamin and D3, and emphasizing legumes. (Nuts and soy consistently caused nausea, so that limited my protein options.) As an experiment, I reintroduced animal products for one week. The cognitive shift – from cloudy to clear – was almost immediate; and for that week I experienced sustained satiety after eating. When I returned to plant-based eating, the hunger and fog resumed. Also, I did not lose weight. (I have always maintained a healthy BMI, but have about ten negotiable “vanity pounds.” I did expect some weight loss as a default of the diet.) I have a theory involving insulin, but I would very much appreciate your opinion as a nutritionally-informed physician: What exactly went wrong?

    1. How many calories were you eating? If you’re even moderately active you need more than 2000-2500 calories per day minimum. It sounds like you probably weren’t eating enough because you ate lots of fibre and whole foods, which can fill you up quickly, and no nuts or soy. By introducing animal foods you were simply adding concentrated sources of calories you lacked before. You felt hungry because you were hungry. Your symptoms sound like me when I’m fasting. Try eating way more starch, and reaching your calorie needs. Also read the ‘Starch Solution’ by John McDougall: all successful plant-based populations eat large amounts of starches like rice, bread, millet, pasta, potatoes, corn, beans, lentils, sweet-potatoes…

      1. Hi M85,
        Thank you for your reply to my query. I can’t say definitively how many calories I was consuming because I wasn’t calculating my intake. But for someone my size, I was given to understand that a minimum of 1500 would suffice. And I was eating the largest volume of food I could reasonably tolerate. But you do make a sound argument for a macronutrient deficiency, given the fact that a micronutrient deficiency is unlikely to resolve and recur so quickly. I am familiar with the work of Dr. McDougall; and I definitely experienced the heightened physical lightness sought by the Roman military and gladiators (“barley men”) when adopting a vegan diet for training purposes. The problem was the mental heaviness that did, in part, mirror reported cases of caloric restriction with one major caveat: Though starvation generally elicits food obsession, I experienced food aversion. But this is not entirely atypical for me; I would subsist off Soylent if I deemed it safe. The confounding variable is the total absence of weight loss. I’ve restricted to inadvisable extremes in the past and become underweight virtually overnight. This is why I’m convinced that insulin was a contributing factor. I do understand the role of intramyocellular lipids in glucose metabolism and how that relates to fat consumption. But considering my dietary fat intake decreased exponentially, logic would dictate that my blood sugar levels improved. This clinical dictate simply wasn’t borne out in practical application. I am left to concur that even complex carbs are insulinogenic, as postulated by ketosis advocates; but this is, admittedly, an experiential bias based on personal results from a previous dietary practice modeled off the Atkins prescription.

        1. Let’s remember that the insulin index of some low-carb foods like beef steak and some fish is often higher than that of certain high-carb foods like pasta and porridge.

          That’s before even getting into the question of whether or not the body’s insulin response matters.

        2. I am only 84 and I enjoy great energy, mental clarity, strength, and slim ladies. Exercise is daily walking, and Isometrics. I changed my food to the McDougall Program over five years ago. I became a believer. Animal is not natural for humans. I was in shock when I saw Dr. McDougall’s book title, “The Starch Solution”. I did not eat Starch. Curiosity got me! I watched the video on youtube, and within a minute ordered the book. The McDougall Program is perfect for me. I was in 90% kidney failure and now recovered. Sleep Apnea, Esophageal Reflux, Hives, are history within a few days. I am no longer obsessed with the nitty details of what nutrients are in my potato, rice, beans, corn, grains, nuts, seeds, vegetables, and fruit. I am alert to adequate, healthy calories. I count nothing, or weigh anything. Also I lost 40 lbs in the first 2 months. I have remained the same weight for 5 years. Kinda’ like when I was 21. :-)
          The Starch Solution works. I gave a copy of the Starch Solution to a friend scheduled for open heart surgery 2.5 months down the road. He followed the plan. Cardiologist canceled his heart surgery. Check out the McDougall Program, and his Archived Newsletters at http://www.drmcdougall.com
          you will always be glad you did.
          Dr. Greger, and Dr. McDougall are my heroes. There are other great doctors committed to the Lifestyle Medicine War. I appreciate them too.

          1. kd,

            That is a cool testimony.

            I keep trying to get my cousin who is in kidney failure to understand the plant proteins versus animal proteins, but his doctors are “Eat more animal proteins and go on Dialysis” oriented. I can’t even handle that people can reverse kidney disease by 90% if they just stop listening to their doctors!

            The truth is very inspiring.

            1. Deb, I have a cousin who has kidney issues and he was told by even conventional doctors to eat less animal protein. Of course they didn’t tell him to eat more plants etc. and just gave him typical conventional advice, the best probably being no more pop, less meat, and more water.

              1. It has been frustrating to me, because he is very thin, so they are more focused on eat more protein, but they are telling him animal products over and over again.

                Emotionally, it wounds me, because he listens to them and when I try to interject what I am learning, he shuts it off, because it is opposite from his doctors and I don’t blame him. It is already confusing to have kidney failure and the diets tell him to not eat are the ones we say are good for people.

                Low Phosphorous foods they suggest are crazy in logic.
                Did you know that Jelly beans and gum drops and soda and white flour desserts, butter, meat and fish are low in phosphorous?
                There are a few fruits and vegetables on the list, but who puts jelly beans and soda on a dietary guideline list?
                I don’t find any rationale for it.

                Butter, meat and fish, there are people who have a logic for it, but I want him to not need dialysis, so I want him to get rid of his animal proteins.

                1. Lol, low phosphorus as a generalization just shows how little most doctors know… As Dr. Greger has explained we the phosphorus from plants is far less bioavailable than that from animals and additives. Honestly, the majority of doctors should not even have the authority to give nutritional advice imo.

                  I’m so sorry to hear about your cousin. Maybe you could offer him a copy of “How Not To Sie” which might inspire him to learn for himself and realize he has so much more power over his health and his doctors are holding him back in that regard. His life is worth more than putting his health in the hands of those u qualified in nutritional science.

                2. So sorry to hear that. Persuading people, even to logical rational evidece, is always tricky. And it always starts with understanding the other person and coming from why they believe what they do. “The Code of Trust” is a great book for building trust that I’m reading now, which may help in having him trust your knowledge more than the doctor’s.

          2. KD….I believe your testimony. You have done a great job. Your testimony should never be discounted as mere anecdotal, but your testimony is a part of thousands of people who attest to good health following your regimen of good health. Share your testimony to everyone, even to TG.

            1. Thanks Bill. It is nice to know that I am always in your thoughts.

              I am not quite sure though how you reconcile kd’s testimony with the testimonies of your Paleo Diet friends. According to you, they do seem to contradict each other.

              If you are interested in testimonials and getting back on topic, there was a book written by a lady called Johanna Brandt back in the 1920s called The Grape Cure. It was enormously popular and is still in print. It relied heavily on testimonies too. You might check it out if you like that kind of stuff. It is still being touted as an alternative cancer cure. Since, it also involved fasting there might indeed be some real benefits with the overall approach. Additionally, scientiific studies have demonstrated anti-cancer and other health benefits from consumption of grapes and grape products.

          3. I see that Dr. Greger and Dr. McDougall both show baked fish is not good for a healthy diet. But, in every search I have done, the consensus is just the opposite. All nutritionists say baked fish is heart healthy and is recommended for a healthy diet. Please tell me why the difference in thinking. It is just this kind of opposite recommendation that drive us lay people crazy. We don’t know who to believe.

        3. Hi Jen,
          I think that it is clear that everyone has a body that is a little different. Most people on this site have found abundant health eating no meat and very little animal foods. There are people who are healthy eating meat. I follow a whole foods, plant based diet, but I am neither 100% vegetarian, nor vegan. My wife is vegan and does well on it. I am doing well eating a small amount of meat, mostly small, cold water high omega 3 fish. I think exploring around the options involved among these will probably help you find the best diet for your body. I am not suggesting that you eat refined carbs, trans fats, CAFO meat, refined vegetable oils, nor lots of fat nor meat in general. Explore among the healthiest options and find what’s right for you. I predict that you will find over time what helps you be and feel healthy.
          John S

          1. I was struck by your wise comment that “every body is different.”

            I recently viewed the TEDx talk of Eran Segal. He studied the differences gut bacteria create. His work opened my eyes to the idea that, without knowledge of a body’s predispositions, well-intended dietary advice might actually be quite unhelpful. His contention is that one-size advice does not fit all and finding what works best in terms of weight loss absolutely depends on your body’s particulars. Maybe Dr. Gregor will study his work sometime.

            I hope that remembering “every body is different” will keep me humble as I suspect I am becoming too preachy with friends and family. All the facts I can now spout from NF.org can be quite annoying to those who don’t share my enthusiasm.

            Thanks!

        4. Jen, your body needs some time to adapt to your new diet. If you were eating 1500 calories and 80% of them were fat, your body is adapted to that. Your body is in “famine/energy saving/fasting”-mode. This is why insulin resistance is actually a physiological reaction. This would also explain why you suffer starvation symptoms and disgust for food at the same time. You can make the transition easier by eating healthy high-fat plant foods like nuts, seeds, olives and avocados. You can also make the transition easier by doing physical exercise. Physical exercise will encourage the body to utilize glucose. Lastly, you can make transition easier by spreading your caloric intake over the day. Don’t eat two or three big meals. Eat many small ones.

        5. Let me add something to previous message. You may suffer also because your protein intake is much lower than it used to be. This problem can be solved by eating more beans. Beans moreover tend to slow down digestion of food, so they’ll help you in other ways too. Overall, please don’t worry, and give some time to your body to adjust to the new diet. If you’ve been on a strict Atkin-style diet for long, it will take AT LEAST several months.

      2. Hello All,

        Isn’t it also true the that too many carbs, especially those contained from pasta and bread are not good to keep cholesterol at check?
        In one video from nutrition facts I’ve noticed that carbs should make up 70% of the diet, but how does that fit together with the need of reducing carbs as far as cholesterol is concerned ?
        Thanks

        1. “Carbs” is too general a category. Processed carbs need to be differentiated from unprocessed carbs. A processed carb like non-diet Coke can very well raise cholesterol, especially someone who has Metabolic Syndrome. An unprocessed carb, like raw sweet potatoes won’t do that. Much of this is a function of several variables including calorie density, usual rate of consumption and fiber content. The best strategy to reduce your risk is to eat low calorie density unprocessed carbs like beans and whole vegetables. Avoid processed carbs like bread, soda, and desserts. Pasta has different effects on different people.

          Dr. Ben

      1. “Listen to your body” isn’t necessarily sound advice… My body used to tell me to drink diet coke and ingest cheese quesadillas from taco bell among other things… Some peoples’ bodies tell them they need to smoke.

          1. Sometimes it is the body, sometimes it is the mind.

            My example is gut bacteria.

            My friend is on the FodMap diet and Dr. Greger in his live Q&A talked about it as the bad gut bacteria cause the people to get sick when they eat good gut bacteria foods. So, instead of trying to change their gut bacteria for the better, they are listening to their bodies and doing “elimination diet” leading to the FodMap diet and they are getting rid of lots of the healthiest foods, because the bad gut bacteria make a big stink.

          2. S. Hart, not true. My body was addicted to artificial sweeteners and addicted to processed sugar. I would sometimes feel sick when I started a cleanse (back when I ate a vegetarian SAD) and I would feel like highly processed, high fat animal prodct laden foods would make me feel better, and indeed they did! My sick feeling would go away after putting disgusting cheese sticks in my body, for example.
            My body was totally unbalanced and it was continual healthy WFPB eating that I needed. But that certainly wasn’t what my body was “telling me,” until I finally gave it what it needed and in a sense reprogrammed myself… so to speak,

            1. S, I remember watching “Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead” movie and when the people did juice fasts, most of them would get ridiculously sick the first week or two.

              I can use “addiction” answers.

              My cousin and my carpenter still smoke and they feel like they can breathe better while smoking. That is what their bodies are telling them. They haven’t done a mental process saying, “No, body, you are a liar.”

              I honestly did a brain changing process, when I started WFPB, because I knew right away that it was the way to go and I knew I had a lot of wrong thinking and wrong feelings about food. I am a Christian, so I am familiar with a process called, “Renewing the mind” where you train your mind to think properly on a daily basis and I have genuinely done that process toward food and I had some “I hate” thoughts about things, which are healthy, so I read on PubMed and ended up using my MicroPulse ICES device to stimulate my vagal nerve while watching the videos on this site, to help change my emotions and thoughts toward foods. It just worked again with Turmeric. I always had an “I hate spices” and I would leave them out of recipes and Turmeric was solidly in my “I hate” category, but it has so many proven health benefits, that I would stimulate my vagal nerve watching Turmeric videos and tonight I was eating lentils and needed more spices and grabbed for Turmeric and other things, which I always “hated” and I had the thought, “I already love Turmeric. It is so good to me and I genuinely love it already.”

    2. Cereals, Jen. Rice, brown and white, buckwheat, oat, amaranth, quinoa…. and on and on, and to that you add legumes, Beans, lentils quick enough to do in a pressure cooker. This will deal with your problem and even out the blood sugar. I am amazed you get better eating animal products. Whenever I have fallen off this wagon and eaten flesh or just dairy/eggs something I don’t do anymore for the following reason…… I have been soooo ill. I now can’t bear the thought of eating flesh and just looking at it or smelling the cooking of it makes me think of rancid rotting stuff. Yuuk. Seriously. A whole food plant based diet does not mean just fruit and veg, and it is not a good idea to fill up on fruit or nuts for that matter. Nor do you have wang down the soy which would bring problems of its own.The fillers are the cereals, major on them. Brown rice is very healing.

      1. Thank you for the recommendation, TG.
        Upon reading this article, I feel I was even more comprehensive and scrupulous with my diet than I formerly realized. This all but negates the possibility of a nutrient deficiency, of which I was skeptical from the beginning. Perhaps dietary sensitivity played a more significant role than previously thought, as suggested by Rebecca Cody in her comment. But another confounder is the fact that, when eating an omnivorous diet, common agitators like soy do not upset. (Though soy is consumed in negligible quantities when animal protein is present in the diet, and raw nuts specifically are still problematic.) I cannot make sense of my success with animal-based eating contrasted with my comparative failure with plant-based eating, with mental lightness/physical heaviness and mental heaviness/physical lightness being juxtaposed. I’m hesitant to conclude that an unacceptable trade-off, in terms of health and functionality, is inevitable either way. I’m hoping Dr. Greger will be able to shed new light on the subject.

        1. Thanks Jen. I hope that you find an answer that works. You presumably are getting enough fat from algal DHA/EPA and seeds/nuts? It’s funny how some people have this response to dietary changes and others don’t. You often find people adopting paleo, Atkins or low carb diets reporting the same brain fog symptoms for example.

          Naturopaths might describe your condition as a “healing crisis” and the result of body detoxification. I am a bit dubious about that sort of terminiology personally but people going cold turkey from alcohol or drugs do often have similar symptoms which can be eliminated by going back on tthe booze or the drugs. It is a trite analogy but there may be something in it.

          Either way though, you can still eat a WFP diet as long as you keep total animal foods under 10% of total calories. Since the World Health Organization states that processed meat is carcinogenic and red meat (beef, lamb, pork, goat etc) is probably carcinogenic, you should probably focus on organic skin-off chicken and small wild-caught deep-water fish if you decide to travel this route..

          However, we know that the body is adaptive. It can often turn off or dial down some processes when sufficient nutients are obtained from the diet, For example, it is thought that the bodies of non fish eaters (including both meat eaters and vegetarians) are more efficient at transforming dietary ALA into DHA/EPA than fish eaters. The latter don’t need to be so efficient since they get sufficient amounts from the diet. Ditto for the absolute amount of dietary ALA affecting the conversion ratio. This may also apply to a whole range of other processes that are less well studied.
          https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/84/1/44/4633063

          Your body may have adapted over many years to your previous omnivorous diet (?). Consequently, it is possible that you are experiencing certain deficiencies because the body itself currently isn’t synthesising sufficient amounts of various nutrients previously amply supplied by your diet. That might explain your symptoms. In time one would expect, the body to adapt to its new diet (again, consider the analogy of tobacco,alcohol and drug consumers who eventually adapt to a diet without these things – but experience various unpleasant symptoms along the way). Speculaltion of course but it has a certain plausibility.

          Anyway, I wish you good luck in tackling your difficult situation.

    3. Jen, Perhaps there is one specific food you’re sensitive to. Grains can cause problems to those who are sensitive. Try cutting them out, getting your starch from potatoes, sweet potatoes, squashes and beans for a week or so. Your body seems to react quickly, so this should give you some idea of the problem. If you respond positively, try reintroducing each grain one at a time, no more often than every three or four days.

      Dr McDougall has an article on his website called Diet for the Desperate. You could probably benefit from following his advice.

      I think if you aren’t losing weight that you’re probably getting enough calories.

      1. I stopped eating red meat 15 years ago because with my IBS-D, I found it hard to digest. I do not take Rx meds and I do not consume any alcohol with the exception of maybe 1 glass of Riesling wine per week. After Christmas I started a whole plant-based diet. No sugar snacks and I was taking V-D3 and B12. For the past month or so, I have been constantly feeling freezing cold, achy, tired, foggy, and depressed. I spoke to an acupuncturist and TCM practitioner who stated that I should eliminate all wheat and grains as they are an inflammatory. He said I need to eat clean meats and natural oils. He checked my pulse and stated that my body is starving for nutrients. He further stated that humans were eating meat from day one and that we did not start adopting a plant based diet until we learned to cultivate agriculture as another source of food. He said I should adapt a more Paleo style diet. Last night I had some cheese for the first time in months and feel much better. I will continue to avoid red meat, eggs, sugar. Doesn’t that McDougall heavy starch diet convert to all sugar? I have not had the chance to read that book yet.

        1. hi!!!

          It is very important to evaluate as a whole your diet, a dietitian should watch your portions. I most likely believe that you are eating too little and you are not adding enough vegetable protein sources and fats. Please make an appointment with a plant based dietitian; unfortunately most doctors don’t know much about nutrition.

          Yared, Health Support Volunteer

        2. No offense Jack but is this fellow a anthropologist?….”He further stated that humans were eating meat from day one and that we did not start adopting a plant based diet until we learned to cultivate agriculture as another source of food.

          Humans evolving into humans occurred over the span of millions of years of evolutionary change. Little suggests we with our weak muscles small teeth and inability to defeat even any carnivore remotely our size without weaponry which is a rather recent invention, were a predominate carnivore.

          We did hunt but the invention of weaponry was really really late in our evolutionary cycle considered beginning when we identified as a distinct separate specie.
          Our hunting before the advent of weapons was probably in the realm of killing and eating a occasional mouse we stumbled upon. WE are just not evolutionarily suited to be hunters. Gatherers picking up things carrying them around, sure. We can walk for long long distances so our range to acquire food is larger than any bears or similar forager. And our great minds enable us to remember where the best things grow and when they grow.
          Agriculture allowed for human concentration. The great numbers of us which make agriculture a necessity as we can no longer forage undisturbed untaken lands is also relatively recent thing.
          I admit it is only a guess but my guess is our first weaponry was for defense not to kill and eat.
          Chimps serve as a example. They have very strong muscles with very sharp long teeth. We thought them to not hunt but now know in native habitate as much as 10 percent of calories come at certain times of year from the hunting of other type chimps. We are not even remotely as capeable physically as them in the hunting of animals. As a occasional tragedy attests they can literally dismember us with ease, and do their similar but of different specie chimps, to eat.

          Nothing suggests the vast majority of our anthropological history was that of a great hunter of animals.

        3. Hey jack seriously…time to get some blood work done dude. Go to a medical doctor and get a work up done….You really don’t know what is going on until you do.
          Feeliing…”feeling freezing cold, achy, tired, foggy, and depressed. I” is not normal nor normally solved by eating some cheese. Something may be going on.
          Why not? YOu have a reason for a check up. It is not like you are just going.

        4. Hello Jack, getting blood work might be a good idea. It’s possible you may be lacking in DHA/EPA if you’re not eating any seafood. There are vegan supplements available if that is the case, though consulting with a nutritionist educated in a plant-based approach to diet would be helpful. Also, folks trained in E. Asian Medicine often prescribe eating red meat as a solution for a “blood deficiency” ddx. As a vegan acupuncturist, I try to be sensitive to people who may not be looking to change their entire world view or value system in favor of a traditional food prescription. Dietary guidance can be tricky in combining traditional foods, cultural paradigms, and modern biochemical science. There are other ways to boost a deficiency and sometimes Western medicine’s lab work can be really helpful, especially if you are lacking a few nutrients, to track down what’s missing. I hope you find your solution, best of luck to you.

          1. I simply consume flax daily and incorporate hemp seeds regularly in my diet and once in a while eat chia seeds and get all my ALA’s and with hemp some SDA to boot. I also eat purslane occasionally as I grow it in the summer. I’m good in DHA/EPA without any supplementation. But supplementing may be beneficial for certain people, I would imagine people over a certain age who have been eating a SAD for most of their lives would benefit most from supplementation. And of course Dr. Greger recommends pregnant and nursing women supplement with it. No authority on the subject, just sharing my thoughts.

        5. Jack

          Your story sounds like an excellent example of why people shouldn’t consult naturopaths. Too often naturopaths assume some glib “alternative health” hypothesis is actually correct even though there is little or no evidence to support the claim and indeed the available evidence and logic point pretty clearly in the opposite direction. They are not alone in this of course. There are a fair number of MDs on the net who also appear to prefer woo to science but by and large most MDs at least try to follow the evidence.

          As Nutriyared advised, you might be better advised to consult an experienced plant-based dietitian. It might also be advisable to get yourself checked out by a trusted MD. It is possible that your symptoms might not even be diet related but instead reflect some underlying health condition. Better safe than sorry.

          You might also find helpful this paper by Dr Michael Klaper MD

          https://veganhealthstudy.org/

          1. I had a blood test 6 weeks ago just before I started feeling like I was mal-nourished. The test came back with flying colors. I am 53, 5-10 and 145 lbs. I have always had a hard time keeping weight on due to my IBS-D which I control with diet and exercise. I just don’t think the plant diet is well-suited for my body type. I think a more gradual adjustment in diet is better than just “flipping the switch over-night.”

            I don’t think it was a coincidence that within 24 hours of implementing some cheddar cheese and chicken, that I am no longer freezing cold, achy, and all the rest of the symptoms. I think different body types and blood types and your ancestral heritage responds differently to certain diets. For me, the plant based diet just felt too extreme. Perhaps I will do it for a month or two during the course of the year, but permanently doesn’t seem to fit well for me. I will however avoid the red meat, sugar, wheat/grains and eggs.

            What do people substitute for bread and crackers? If I want to continue with the organic peanut butter and jelly, how do you make a sandwich?

            1. Hi, Jack. I am not sure what you mean when you say your blood test came back with flying colors before you started feeling malnourished. That would seem to suggest you were not, in fact malnourished. I am also not sure why you are avoiding all grains.
              With regard to the idea of eating for blood types, you might want to see this. There is evidence cheese can be addictive, due to casomorphins content. People who are addicted to something often “feel better” when they get it, but that does not necessarily mean it is good for them. I hope that helps!

              1. Thank you. By mal-nourished I mean that I always felt tired and weak. Plants and veggies just don’t make me feel like I have eaten a meal. I read a book, “The Wheat-Belly Diet?” I can’t remember the correct title… Anyway the wheat we are eating today is different from the wheat that was grown 50-60 years ago. Supposedly, it requires less water and grows shorter by genetically modifying how it is grown. It is considered to cause inflammation.

        6. Hi Jack,

          You said in a separate comment you had a blood test and the test “came back with flying colors.” Did it include TSH, T3, T4, free T3, and free T4? If it was only TSH, you should get the others done, as the thyroid is the body’s thermostat, so feeling cold, as well as foggy and tired, all sound like possibly, and I emphasize possibly, an underactive thyroid. If those tests were all done and came out well within the norm, then you will have to look elsewhere. If they weren’t done, I would recommend doing so. If your thyroid is in low gear all of the symptoms you noted could be explained. Sometimes whole grains, soy, and certain vegetables can affect the uptake of iodine to the thyroid. Some sea vegetables to improve your iodine profile could help in that case. Good luck!

    4. Eat what makes you feel well. I feel much better when I consume a small amount of animal protein. Otherwise I am starving in the middle of the night. I think you are a perfect example of one way of eating does not fit all.

      1. Yeah, science be damned, eat what makes you feel good at the moment… Smh… I guess some people are determined to learn the hard way, I just hope they’re not teaching their kids that same logic.

    5. Hi Jen! I’ve learned that not everyone responds the same to certain foods. So take with a grain of salt what others tell you that they’ve learned about themselves. It may not apply to you. My best advice is to keep experimenting with what works for you. Maybe you should experiment with 6 ounces of wild salmon or a can of sardines from Portugal’s clear waters once a week? Try 2 tablespoons of hemp seeds, and 2 tablespoons of ground flax seeds everyday for a few weeks. Oat groats instead of oatmeal. Lots and lots of black beans. Spinach is great with it. Lots of beets! Try all kinds of things. It’s fun, and it holds the promise of getting what you want and need.
      Joseph in Missoula

    6. Jen,

      You’re lucky that your body gives you such quick feedback, or maybe you’re just more open to how you actually feel, in general, instead of blindly accepting that becoming vegan is THE healthiest and best style of eating. Whatever the case, you should eat whatever it is that makes you feel your best.

      I, too, have experimented with different eating styles over the years (vegetarian being one, but not vegan), but I’ve never had any luck with weight loss until I recently increased my fat intake. Although Dr. Greger will tell you that fat causes type II diabetes, I don’t see how this can be true when in addition to losing weight, my blood numbers have never been better. Since upping the amounts of avocado, pastured butter, heavy whipping cream, olive oil, avocado oil, nuts and olives in my diet, I have effortlessly lost 9 pounds, and I’ve never felt better. I mostly eat plant foods, but I also eat animal-based protein a few times a week.

      Have you read Vegan Betrayal by Mara Khan? I think you might find it quite interesting!

      1. People, please understand that “vegan” does not meant eating plant based – it’s not a diet. Veganism is a way of life which excludes the use and exploitation of other animals. Much more serious than a dietary choice.

        1. S no offense you are technically correct in the vegan thing. But most commonly in places like the UK vegan refers first now to diet and lifestyle second….in a dictionary they are wrong. But in things of words if a majority do it..it then becomes right.

          1. ron, you are absolutely mistaken. The term vegan was literally made for the purpose of animal rights. The man who literally invented the word defined it as abstaining from the exploitation and use of animals by what is possible and practical. I don’t have his exact quote on hand, but that about sums it up. I’ve worked with many vegan animal rights activists in the UK. Many people around the world misuse the term vegan for diet, but it is not so and animal rights is a movement and an extremely serious thing just as serious as equal rights among men in any period of history so it is imperative that this is corrected. No amount of ignorant celebrities like Beyoncé or internet bloggers or misinformed individuals have the power to change this. Animal rights is growing movement.

            1. No I am not mistaken. I say that is the correct dictionary definition. Look up LOL in most dictionaries. What does it mean…nothing.
              What does it mean to us….we all know.
              Linguistically the most common used term goes first in a dictionary definition of a word. That the one leads does not mean others usually multiple definitions follow and are not valid. All words with time assume multiplicity of meaning. Words change with use and application.

              I know all about the history of veganism and have been one pretty much since 1990. And a contributing member of PETA for several years of that.

              Vegan in the UK is first referencing diet. Regardless of who made the term and how they came about it.
              To say that all who prioritize vegan as a diet thing as a pop star with no substance is to disavow the notion entirely that one may care about the future of the planet and the elimination of a specie a day of animal and plants due to AGW by being vegan in diet.

              The future of this planet is the future of all animals.
              How long have been vegan exactly that may define this thing for us all by your strict peramaters?

          1. Suzanne, you are entirely incorrect, where are you getting that? Again, when the term vegan was invented by the man who invented it, it was clearly defined… Here is some specific information you can find on The Vegan Society website:

            “Although the vegan diet was defined early on in The Vegan Society’s beginnings in 1944, it was as late as 1949 before Leslie J Cross pointed out that the society lacked a definition of veganism. He suggested ‘[t]he principle of the emancipation of animals from exploitation by man’. This is later clarified as ‘to seek an end to the use of animals by man for food, commodities, work, hunting, vivisection, and by all other uses involving exploitation of animal life by man’.

            When The Vegan Society became a registered charity in 1979, the Memorandum and Articles of Association updated the definition of ‘veganism’ as:

            ‘A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.’

            Vegan does not mean diet.

            1. Shaylen,

              So how do you define your style of eating then? Because the dictionary defines vegan as: a vegetarian who omits all animal products from the diet. And the very first sentence of what you sent me states, “Although the vegan diet was defined early on in the Vegan Society’s beginnings. . .”

              Suzanne

              1. Suzanne, the actual term “vegan” was created by one man in 1944, Donald Watson. Donald Watson was the founder of the Vegan Society, he created the term “vegan” before it was ever introduced to the dictionary. If that is indeed what it currently says in the dictionary, then the dictionary does not have it right in that it is an incomplete definition that should be corrected and I’m sure eventually will. But vegan is so much more than a word, it is a way of life. An incomplete definition in a book has no authority over what it has meant since the beginning and why it was created.

                I tell people that I am a vegan, but if I’m being specific about my diet, I tell them that I’m whole food plant based. But very often I say that I’m a whole food plant based vegan when specifying about my diet.
                However, I’m able to use the term vegan when actually referring to my diet because I AM a vegan and veganism also covers diet. But if I simply excluded all sources of animal products from my diet even 100% of the time but purchased products tested on animals, wore products from animals, used cosmetics with animal products in them, fished or hunted, and so on, then I would have to tell people that I am plant based.

                Vegan is about animal rights and diet is a very large part of that. Plant based is about diet.

                1. ^I should actually elaborate on something I wrote… when I say “wear products form animals” I don’t mean to say that if someone goes vegan they have to get rid of all their shoes, etc. and buy more, it just means they can no longer purchase clothing made from animals. Just to clarify because some people get confused about that. It also doesn’t meant they can’t feed their cats and so on… it’s not about scruples, it’s very practical.

                2. Thanks for clearing this up; good to know! Unfortunately, most of the vegans I know use the term to describe only their diet. I’m pretty sure they are of the type who like to label themselves and feel that they’re part of some kind of trendy community.

                  1. Trendy community?
                    Unfortunately, most of the vegans I know use the term to describe only their diet. I’m pretty sure they are of the type who like to label themselves and feel that they’re part of some kind of trendy community.
                    “I call myself pretty much vegan in common talk with people I know when perhaps we go out to eat. When else would it come up?

                    My trendy community is native American usually and cattle and sheep ranchers…what trend that?. Or perhaps at times soccer moms and dads or gymnastic lovers. Who in my crowd is impressed with that?
                    Using the term to describe some type of life style choice misses the point with about 95 percent of americans.
                    While I do espouse that style and live it as best I may the idea how one communicates that issue by the naming of that issue when about all else think this thing means diet…is perposerous.
                    Go give a twenty minute talk to some rancher or farmer about how vegan means not diet but this and that….and you will not talk tot them again as they will avoid you thinking you are quite mad. Why….because about all know it to be diet, a dietary practice.

                    Trendy? Like we are in college perhaps?Comical.

                    Look up the word atheist. It was conceived in the sixteenth century in England in reference to the non believer in the creator god of the English church. Now it has application to anyone who does not believe in a god at all or anything supernatural…..
                    Point is words change in meaning as time goes on. Atheism has chanced by dictionary definition, veganism is in the process as well.
                    Popularly it refers to diet to most by majority people….

                    Sure vegans know it means this other thing..most of them. To be strict with it the term leads peoples away from it not towards.
                    Who wants to be vegan if it means amongst other things I may not ride a horse?
                    Is the harm greater from factory farming or in riding of horses?

                    Who do we draw to if we are strict in this thing? Do we draw common people saying you may no longer have dogs as that is using animals for human purpose….or do we allow vegan to mean in diet?
                    I go to a restaurant do I go into a fifteen minute speel on veganism on this and that? Or do I simply tell them…I am vegan?
                    Do they not know what I want to eat then, what is on the menu,,,, is that then me being trendy?
                    Absurd.

                    1. Hahahaha! Your writing could use serious editing, but I think I get most of what you were trying to say although that last paragraph needs a total redo. But why would you need to announce in a restaurant that you’re a vegan in the first place? (Now that’s absurd.) Why not just order what you want without having to draw unnecessary attention to yourself? In fact, why are you going to restaurants where you know that dead animals are on the menu in the first place if you’re a serious vegan?

      2. Suz, I don’t really think Dr. Greger gives that impression about fat, he simply shows what the science says about animal fat and saturated fat. I don’t worry about my fat intake and get plenty of it as a WFPB vegan. I don’t completely omit oil but when I use it I use extra virgin olive oil and don’t cook it, and I do so sparingly due to what the science says about arterial function and oils. I don’t worry about fat form whole plant foods such as nuts, seeds, avocados…

      3. That book you quote has very little basis in actual science from what I understand. it’s just another highly sensationalised popular “health” book.

        if people want to know what the science shows on this matter, they should consult the U:S dietary guidelines. These note that well plannev “vegan” diets are healthy
        https://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015/guidelines/appendix-5/

        As does the US Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
        “It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.”
        It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.

        Incidentally, it is not just Dr Greger who points out that high fat diets are associated with greater risk for diabetes. The World Health Organization, after reviewing the evidence, advises that to prevent diabetes we should “eat a healthy diet, avoiding sugar and saturated fats”.
        http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs312/en/

        The US Government also advises people to choose foods with less trans fat, saturated fat, and added sugars.
        https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/diabetes/overview/preventing-type-2-diabetes/game-plan

        This sin’t surprising really since
        “A large body of experimental data generated in laboratory animals strongly supports the notion that high-fat diets are associated with impaired insulin action. It appears from animal studies that saturated fats, in particular, have the most detrimental effects. Based on this information, along with the known risks of high saturated fat intake on cardiovascular disease risk, professional organizations such as the American Diabetes Association, the American Heart Association, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture have made recommendations that Americans aim for a total fat intake of no more than 30% of calories and choose foods low in saturated fat.”
        http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/25/3/620

        1. Thank you for these links; I read each and every one of them! I’m always interested in reading everything I can about food and nutrition and how the body is affected.

          First off, Vegan Betrayal is not a health book. It was written by a 20+ years vegan journalist who took 5 years to research and write it, and who details her experience (and a few other peoples’) with eating as a vegan and as an omnivore. There are well over 15 pages of citations, but whether or not any of them are legitimate, her story was well worth the read.

          I’m going to have to disagree on the “avoiding fats/saturated fats” part about being a contributor to type II diabetes. One, because the obesity epidemic and increase in type II diabetes started ramping up in the late 80s with the advent of “eat anything you want, as long it’s fat-free” craze. People were blown away with this advice (given by the government), then went to town on eating TONS of sugar and refined carbs. And two, because my own blood levels surrounding insulin/glucose have dramatically improved (not that they even needed to in the first place) with me increasing my fat intake, saturated or otherwise. (Actually, I avoid any and all trans fats, as should everyone.) From all the reading I’ve done on this topic, I’m going to have to say it’s sugar that’s the main culprit in causing type II. Have you done any experimenting with your eating and seen any differences in your blood work? I’d be interested to know!!

          1. Thanks but I inadvertently failed to copy and psost the link to the AND position statement. It is here:
            https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S2212-2672(16)31192-3

            Also, I have to disagree.with most of your statements. I have seen them all before online in a multittude of dodgy alternative health sites.and in sensational “health” books. I confess that I too originally found them plausible but the more fact-checking I did, the more I realised that these sites and authors were misrepresenting the evidence and the historicaol record.to concoct their story.

            In my opinion, the saturated fat apologists are refusing to face facts and playing fast and loose with the evidence. First, their argument seems based on the incorrect assumption that if sugar plays a role in diabetes, then saturated fat cannot. That is obviously incorrect.

            And the argument about changes since the 1980s is equally misleading. The US Government never said anything about “eat all you want as long as it is fat free”. That is just one of the lies or delusions (I am never sure which) spread by the saturated fat apologists. Their claim is easily proven false by looking at the US dietary guidelines from that time. The first US guidelines (in 1980) told peiple to avoid too much sugar and told people to eat foods with adequate starch and fibre. The 1985 guidelines said the same thing and the 1990 guidelines told Americands to use sugars only in moderation and to eat plenty of vegtables, fruits and grains. And so and so on.
            https://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/history.htm#6

            If we look at the food supply data from the 1980s, we will see that average per capita calories significantly increased which would much more credibly explain increases in type 2 diabetes rates whether or not sugar consumption (however defined) went up or down.
            https://www.cnpp.usda.gov/USFoodSupply-1909-2010

            And the American Diabetes Association states that the claim that sugar causes diabetes is a myth. What it says is that “Being overweight does increase your risk for developing type 2 diabetes, and a diet high in calories from any source contributes to weight gain. Research has shown that drinking sugary drinks is linked to type 2 diabetes.

            The American Diabetes Association recommends that people should avoid intake of sugar-sweetened beverages to help prevent diabetes.”
            http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/myths/

            This is in line with WHO and US Government advice to avoid fat, especially saturated fat, and sugar because these are associated with weight gain which in turn is associated with increased risk for type 2 diabetes

            And yes eating high fat low carb diets is a good way of masking the symptoms of diabetes. People will still have diabetes but some of the more simple markers from blood tests will be obscured. Even in people without diabetes,

            biomarkers can be improved if even worse foods than saturated fats like trans fats and refined carbs are eliminated from the diet. But even that is not always necessary since weight loss alone – even on a very bad diet – can deliver imporoved biomarkers. That doesn’t prove such diets are healthy. look at the Twinkie Diet guy

            “His body weight in pounds went from 207 down to 174.
            His body mass index went from 28.8 (overweight) down to 24.9 (normal).
            His LDL (bad) cholesterol dropped by 20 percent
            His HDL (good) cholesterol increased by 20 percent
            His triglycerides (a form of body fat) dropped by 39 percent
            His body fat dropped from 33.4 to 24.9 percent@
            https://www.diabetesdaily.com/blog/oh-dear-the-twinkie-diet-actually-works-268743/

            I do suggest that you rigorously fact check these claims in popular books and websites by looking at major reports on nutrition and disease by credible health authorities, instead of just beliveing sensational claims.

            1. It’s funny that you’re lecturing me on fact checking when you completely believe the one link you sent me regarding a study done on “self reported” vegetarians. This is why I take these “studies” with a grain of salt. Self reporting is a terrible way to conduct a “scientific” experiment. I know people who claim to be vegetarians, but then say, “I eat a little bit of fish here or there.” Or vegans who “have to eat a little cheese every now and then.” These are the same people who are self reporting vegetarians and vegans! Also, I believe that most every study is skewed in one way or another, depending on who’s funding it and/or the desired results because you can find a study saying one thing, and then you can find a different study saying the complete opposite. Who is to be believed?!?

    7. Doctor Gregore recommended a book a couple videos or blogs ago I believe published in 2014 and I cannot find it now. Would you have any idea what it was? Sorry for my lack of clues.

      Thank you

  2. My understanding is that Japanese knot weed is the highest concentration of resveratrol. This could be a “miss” in an otherwise super commendable effort by Dr. Greger and Nutritionfacts.org. on so many health subjects. Thanks Dr. G!

    1. Brian Sparks, since resveratrol has NOT shown any activity in humans in thousands of studies, why would we want to get it from Japanese Knotweed (which is deemed a noxious weed by the county were I live)?

      1. Rebecca, not that I am arguing for supplementation of resveratrol, but it sounded like there haven’t been many human studies on its activity as an antioxidant. So maybe resveratrol (in normal amounts found in food) does have positive activity within the human body. It hasn’t been proven to have no activity in humans based on actual human studies, has it?

        1. S, it is the dosage it would take that is so high that it might be impossible.

          Thousands and millions to get a benefit makes supplementing not worth it, but also makes trying to overeat enough of it to get it in your system not wise.

          That being said the foods CAN have benefit. I say CAN, because if people are going to use “potential benefit” as logic to drink a keg of beer a day, they will have missed the point of using wisdom with all nutritional information.

          The food industry proclaims benefits to products which will also actually kill you. Dr Greger does his “thinnest casket” type jokes for that.

          1. That vague notion of things “being good for us” is what campaigns like the milk campaign use.

            Dairy being linked to Cancer is the logic they don’t use to balance the whole “good for us” logic.

          2. Deb, I’m just wondering what any human studies (if there have been any) have shown about the activity of reveratrol in humans. If it has shown to work as an antioxidant then I would imagine the amounts found in normal foods would act as nature intended them to… maybe it even acts synergistically with other antioxidants in the foods it’s found in. Just curious. Even if found to have some antioxidant activity in us I would not think supplementation would be a good idea at all for various reasons.

  3. How about the calcium in mineral water? Is this not simply a rock calcium, and thus would be just
    as bad for us as calcium supplements? Any science on this? Thanks.

    1. It’s complicated and whether it is harmful or helpful may depend on the ratio of magnesium to calcium in the water and/or your diet generally.rather than the total amount of calcium and its origin. These articles may perhaps help

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4175776/
      http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/3/2/e002111

      Note that it is the calcium spikes caused by ingestion of large amounts in the form of supplements that is believed to be problematic – not the amounts found nturally in food and/or water
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/are-calcium-supplements-safe/

    2. Mineral water from springs with naturally occurring minerals, or are you referring to fortified waters or something? I’m not aware of fortified mineral water but as for natural spring water, there is very little calcium in it. You can’t get too much calcium from eating broccoli, for example. It’s the unnaturally high amounts ingested at once that seem to be the problem, from my understanding.

  4. Ding ding ding — we have a winner.

    For the funniest (and very important) video from Dr. Greger I have ever seen!

    Great job. Alas it comes at a time when I was debating the “cost” of my occasional alcoholic intake.

    So I guess I have to say “thanks” for that as well, but with a bit less enthusiasm than for the humor ;-)

    Thanks to all who manage and produce these videos as well, and of course for standing up to those that keep trying to hoodwink us.

    Keep ’em coming!

    1. Good link!

      Been taking this stuff for awhile now and didn’t know it was 1. related to resveratrol and 2. found in blueberries.

      It’s kinda expensive so while eating the blueberries may mean I can lower my supplement outlay.

      Thanks.

      1. Lonie,

        Bag the pterostilbene. I took it for 6 months along with nicotinamide riboside. My ApoB 100 went from 66 to 105. That is a big deal- it is a much more reliable indicator of cardiovascular risk that LDL-C. I stopped the pterostilbene and started the ketogenic diet and the ApoB100 went down to 84 in one month. I spoke with the discoverer of NR, and he said he was not surprised about the effect in my Apo B100 after taking pterostilbene.

        1. David, thanks for the information. Something I was not aware of, the ApoB, so I read up on it a bit. Checked back on my last blood test results and could find no mention of it so I guess it wasn’t screened for.

          I have a checkup due soon, so will follow up with my Dr.

          I see you are a keto… and while I’m not getting sufficient good fat at present to be considered keto, I have been in the past and am sort of still doing that off and on, but not as a regimen.

          I’m also doing a host of other things that may be protecting my arteries based on things I’ve read. One I’ve been doing recently is taking a krill oil soft capsule at night before bed, after reading that a higher number of heart attacks occur during the wee morning hours.

          The info I read said that by getting omega 3s in the system at night will protect the arteries and stop the problem of causing a blockage during this critical time. I also eat some dark chocolate (keeps the arteries dilated and plastic) and take a white willow bark capsule to keep the blood thin like an aspirin will (without the risks involved with taking aspirin.)

          Also drink beet juice daily in the mornings to also keep arteries supple and dilated.

          So I think I will continue with my current regimen as I may be doing some things that offset pterostilbene dangers that have manifest themselves in your data. Being an analog of resveratrol excites me that it may be of help in restoring some of our senescent cells.

          But I will ask my doctor to include that in my bloodwork and hopefully get a better handle on any negative effects.

          Thanks for posting David.

  5. I am almost nostalgic for the days of that arch adversary Jerry. Now the paleo and keto freaks come on the board to describe very carefully how they are just ordinary dudes who tried really hard to make a vegan WFPBD work but hell, one swallow of a steak and the sun came out and health and vitality just bounded back into their lives.

    I know the house style is to say, well it takes all sorts, and some people just do better eating flesh. But I don’t believe it. The only people I know/have ever met who eat animals are sick or sickening, certainly in the body, often in the mind and spirit too (although that latter is unscientific, I know).

    Where are all the paleo-keto freaks doing so well chowing down herbivores rather than the herbs? Well, we have some one on this board right now, but that is just a name to a post. Does anyone else actually KNOW anyone who thrives on flesh eating.

    1. I know a lot of people who carefully eat small amounts of pastured meats and cold water fish and are thriving. Actually way more than vegans. However, I don’t know anyone who eats a lot of cheap CAFO meat and is thriving.
      John S

      1. “I know a lot of people who carefully eat small amounts of pastured meats and cold water fish and are thriving. Actually way more than vegans.”

        So by your comment, are you suggesting that you’ve taken a group of people eating certain animals and a group of vegans, calculated their dietary habits (vegans don’t all eat whole foods and healthy, it’s not a diet, it’s a moral/ethical lifestyle about animal rights… c’mon people! get it straight already), checked their blood pressure, ran blood tests, cardio tests, etc. and found that the meat eating group was healthier than the vegan group? Or are you suggesting that a handful of people you know who claim to eat a certain way and seem (based on whatever) to be “thriving” are just way more healthier than the collective vegans in the world? I’m confused. Can you please elaborate?

  6. I am almost nostalgic for the days when paleo and keto freaks came onto the board as gloves off adversaries. Now they come on to describe very carefully how they are just ordinary dudes who tried really hard to make a vegan WFPBD work but hell, one swallow of a steak and the sun came out and health and vitality just bounded back into their lives.

    I know the house style is to say, well it takes all sorts, and some people just do better eating flesh. But I don’t believe it. The only people I know/have ever met who eat animals are sick or sickening, certainly in the body, often in the mind and spirit too (although that latter is unscientific, I know).

    Where are all the paleo-keto freaks doing so well chowing down herbivores rather than the herbs? Well, we have some one on this board right now, but that is just a name to a post. Does anyone else actually KNOW anyone who thrives on flesh eating.

    1. I know people who thrive eating some flesh, sure. If you eat a healthy diet of 80-90% whole foods inclusive of green leafy vegetables, and then include about 10% or so of animal foods, you will be healthy. I know people like that. Example: Dr. Rhonda Patrick. Or even Joe Rogan.

      1. Ben, you have no idea what’s going on in the bodies of these people you know internally. Just because someone appears to be thriving doesn’t necessarily mean they are. They could be walking around with cancer, they could eventually get heart diseased, etc. So saying you think someone is thriving due to how they appear or seem, doesn’t prove said person is thriving.
        Obviously the way to have an OPTIMAL diet is to eat a WFPB diet as we know the detrimental effects animal products have on us and that our bodies (if you look at the science honestly) are actually designed to be herbivores.
        If they feel good and look good and think good, just imagine how much BETTER they’d feel, look, and think if they stopped eating flesh and other animal parts… I mean I could probably incorporate ho-ho’s in my diet and due to all the healthy foods I eat, get away with it, but I wouldn’t consider it optimal or thriving… I’d consider it putting absolute crap and poison in my body that I had waste good antioxidants on to help counteract.

      2. Joe Rogan is all of fifty years old and takes testosterone for the last ten years or so. Not directly related to diet but he has major major injury problems over the years. He has per example permanent numbness of his knee due to one failed operation. He is pinning his hopes on some of the newer stem cell treatments. Hope it works by my guess his hips will be next to go.
        To see the effects of diet one needs to wait to my experience till around about 60 or so. that is when with most the tale starts to write itself.

        Some except that way earlier and way later due to genetic variance but normally.
        Check Rogan out in a form fitting T shirt nowadays which he occasionally wears. Look first and then tell me if I am wrong…but I think it is a bit of gyno showing on his chest. All that test has got to have consequences.

        1. Laughing at “all of fifty years old” yes, some of us ate total junk food for 50 years and could convince people it didn’t cause health problems, in fact none of my junk food eating friends have had health problems for their first fifty years, but that next decade was a doozy.

          Forks over knives is more than just a movie title for some of us.

    2. Now that you mention it, all the meat eaters I know suffer from obesity, cardio, cancer or type 2. You can meet some at your local hospital in the cardiac unit.

    3. Hi Gillian,
      My comments were not designed to discredit your lifestyle choice, nor were they meant to invoke hostility. Please be mindful that antagonism, passive-aggressiveness, presumption, and hyperbole are all stereotypes employed almost exclusively against the vegan community to invalidate their collective opinion. I am not going to engage you in a toxic debate or critique you indirectly; that is not good etiquette and is counterproductive. Instead, I am going to apologize for inadvertently offending you. This is clearly more than a diet to you; it is a belief system. If I’ve made you feel that the ethics of plant-based eating aren’t being acknowledged in this space, I assure you that was not the intention of this discourse. While I expect no reciprocal courtesy, I must say that I have been hesitant to voice the challenges I experienced with veganism for this very reason; though I’m happy to report that the vast majority of responses here have been polite and positive. I encourage you to consider how negativity may misrepresent and even undermine what is not just a medical but a moral cause. To paraphrase a beloved aphorism: You can catch more omnivores with agave than with vinegar. For the record: I was a “gloves-off adversary” of all carb-based diets in the past, and vehemently so. It was the science that made me reconsider. And it is the science that inspires me to keep asking questions. That alone was the basis of my inquiry.

      1. Jen, I am going to say that this is more than a diet, it is a belief system to me, too.

        People reversing heart disease and cancer and having 5 times less Alzheimer’s and not getting hardening of the arteries and not needing surgery and not having strokes is a matter of life and death to me and my family all are meat eaters and we are having them die of heart attacks and Alzheimer’s and become infirmed from strokes and obesity.

        It is so serious to me that people get this message and not get confused by the “chatter” – but if you found something, which is working for you, that is good for you, but the only way to get low enough leucine is to go vegan is what the longevity studies say and I don’t mind you sorting out your health, but I don’t want you confusing the message, because the message is utterly life versus death.

        1. Jen,

          I know how confusing it is and I guess that is the point.

          I want my relatives who have cancer to get off the growth hormone and methionine and choline from eggs and carnitine from beef and to get off the animals because of viruses, which cause cancer.

          I want my relatives who have had heart attacks to not add to their artery problems with meat and when I watched the video where he showed the difference in the arteries to the heart after only one year on a meat oriented diet, I started tearing up, because having their arteries block up by 51% in one year is why my relatives are having strokes and heart attacks and when I looked at the progression of the hardening of arteries, I wanted to throw up, because we are killing people in this country and around the world and THAT is the ONLY belief system that I have.

          The fact that they are narrowing the answer of longevity to intake of leucine and the only way to stay low enough is to go vegan is the message.

          I had skinny relatives need pacemakers and die of Alzheimer’s drinking red wine and eating meat and skinny step-mothers have strokes and skinny mother die of cancer and my skinny cousin can’t hear the plant based message, which could keep him off dialysis, because of other voices talking so much that he is confused.

          Again, I don’t mind anyone making their own decisions, but I don’t want anyone coming on here and coming against the message, which is genuinely saving lives. This is a site where people are being saved as if being brought out of a burning building. Let Dr. Greger’s message come forward unhindered. Let it come forward passionately.

          If you like meat, eat it, but if you get Cancer or heart disease or diabetes or Alzheimer’s, you already will know you can stop and it may reverse things for you. Millions of people don’t know that yet and THAT is why I don’t want people just arguing without the science behind them.

          I can say that it took me a year to get off milk and cheese, because I liked them and Dr. Barnard has a book explaining why they are addictive, but I was not here trying to get people away from WFPB just because I felt like I couldn’t do it, because I “got” that Dr. Greger’s grandmother’s life was saved is his motivation for everything. Please don’t confuse people. Please.

          1. Deb, do you have a link to the video you’re referring to about the arteries after 1 year eating meat? I don’t believe I saw that one and sounds like a great one to share.

              1. Here is one of the plant based diet and arterial function. The longer they were vegetarian, the better the function.

                https://nutritionfacts.org/video/plant-based-diets-and-artery-function/

                Here is the arteries to the heart after a single high fat meal

                https://nutritionfacts.org/video/fatty-meals-may-impair-artery-function/

                This one has the progression of hardening of arteries in pictures.

                https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/aortic-aneurysm/

                Here is moderation still leading to millions of people dying from heart disease.

                https://nutritionfacts.org/video/everything-in-moderation-even-heart-disease/

                I think the other images, might have been in this one or his year in review.

                https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-not-to-die-from-heart-disease/

                I am laughing, because the titles of the videos don’t tell me anything.

                They were clever at the time of conception, but there is no description saying, “This is the one, which shows pictures of_____”

                I want a picture section, because I didn’t have to watch the hardening of the arteries video twice to stop wanting animal products.

      2. Hi Jen, I hadn’t actually read all the comments in this discussion but upon reading your above comment I was curious so I scrolled up and read your original comment. First, in response to this comment I just wanted to say that “vegan” isn’t actually a diet but a moral and ethical way of life that excludes the exploitation and use of other animals, so when you’re talking about trying a plant based diet, calling it “veganism” isn’t accurate. This is an important misunderstanding the occurs regularly so I like to shed light since the issue of animal cruelty is such a serious topic.

        About your original comment (and I apologize if this was addressed in any way already, I hadn’t read through all the replies), I wonder if it could have been anything like my experience… When first going vegan (I actually went vegan, it was for the animals) I was craving some of the animal foods I used to eat, but not even like junk foods like pizza, I was craving foods that my body really felt it needed. At the time I didn’t know half as much about nutrition as I do now so maybe if I were just trying out plant based for health reasons I would have taken this and been like “oh, well I obviously need those foods.” However, since it was for moral and ethical reasons, there was no way that was an option. So I thought “what is in the thing that I’m craving that my body might need,” so I would eat something else that had these things in them, at the time I went to beans or lentils. After an astoundingly short period of time, the cravings for the animal products not only went away, but my body actually started craving beans and lentils instead. My theory is that, my body was used to getting certain things from said sources and when I wasn’t getting enough of said nutrients, my brain would automatically say “oh you need eggs, etc.” So I not only retrained by body/brain that I can get these things from plant sources, but I also theorize that my cravings switched so quickly to the plant based sources because my body PREFERRED these things because it was a much healthy source and overall more beneficial.

        I did actually go through SOME detox experiences, but I didn’t really start my vegan lifestyle out on WFPB, so I was eating a lot of refined foods at the time. I think that if I had initially gone WFPB right away that I probably would have felt a little sick at first due to some pretty serious detoxing which I would have been ok with because detoxing is good and I’d know it would pass. Again, I did go through some detox symptoms and was actually totally fine with it.

        All that being said, maybe the trick is consistency? That also brings to mind others’ comments on gut bacteria… I mean so much in our bodies shift when we start eating differently. And getting healthier does not always feel good until it does, and then it feels amazing.

      3. Jen, I read through more of the comments and unless I missed something, I didn’t see Gillian say or imply that she was vegan so I’m not sure why you started talking to her on how to approach animal rights or assumed she was vegan. I didn’t see any mention of animal rights apart from my own.

    4. Everyone “thrives” until they get sick. But honestly, ever single person I know who eats animals suffers from things I too used to suffer from. Even the healthiest among them complain about pains, head aches, bloating, constipation, colds, sore throats, etc… and on a significant regular basis. I think people will describe things as “thriving” because they think subpar health is what is normal because well, based on averages in the western world, it actually IS. But once you go plant based, it’s kind of a huge wake up when you experience the difference.

    5. My same old story Gillian.
      Back in the day worked with a large group of other young males who had to stay fit as a job thing. One came upon Atkins and that diet. A bunch of the studs started in that with one particularly a favorite of it. Slabs of bacon lard who knows what else.
      Till at the end of a jog, they all had lost bunches of weight and looked and claimed to feel great….the major proponent of the thing…full arrest. Sat down on a curb and died.

      They all called for a full autopsy..how could this happen a young guy fit two young kids……
      Needless to say they all nevertheless stopped that thing immediately.

      You just had to sense eating that stuff was not so good. But it took a death. Atkins himself died 267 pounds and with a concealed heart condition he had been treating for years.
      But it did seem to work for a while. Cardiac stress test a person I know a AMI about a month after a successful result….many times the first notion of a problem is quite unfortunately death.
      I admit bias being vegan for moral considered reasons. But the stories are true nevertheless. I would be very cautious of docs and their suggestions without science to support it.
      I am still waiting for Atkins research he was supposed to be doing as opposed to just selling books.

      1. My high school friend’s step-father died that way.

        He lost weight and looked healthier than he ever had before in his life.

        People talked about how healthy he looked and he felt better than he ever had, is what he said, but a month or two later he was dead.

        1. My biggest fear in my life is that both of my brothers and both of my step-sisters and three of my closest friends all might have that story, if they don’t change and I can’t get them to learn what I am learning. It is devastating that there is so much disinformation.

          Jen, I am not upset at all with you, but Vegan reverses diseases and heart disease starts when you are ten years old are two of the things I learned on this site and I can’t figure out how to get the people I love to hear that, because there are so many voices saying so many theories and I just want the science studies.

  7. This video on the misleading advertisement of resveratrol to greatly enhance health reminds me that even our anointed medical doctors, researchers, and men of science also cheat for personal gain. Take this two medical doctors for example, Harvard researcher John Darsee. In 1981 he was found to be faking data in a heart study. Eventually investigators at the National Institutes of Health discovered that data for most of his 100 published studies had been fabricated. Or take the case of cardiac-radiology specialist Robert Slutsky, who in 1985 resigned from the University of California at San Diego School of Medicine after colleagues began to wonder how he turned out a new research article every 10 days. University investigators concluded he had altered data and lied about the methods he used. Every area of science, religion, politics, and human endeavor has liars, cheaters, and sometimes even murderers. In the name of the so called scientific research on the Aryan race, the Nazis killed millions of Jews. So, just because someone is wearing a white lab jacket and has a stethoscope hanging around their neck does not make them immune to greed, lies, and corruption. Back in the 1970’s scientists told us of the coming doom of global cooling, and now these same scientists are telling us bout the coming doom of global warming. And, yet it was discovered by computer hackers who stole e-mails from global warming experts that they were cooking the numbers in order to support their theory of global warming. Look at all the drugs that went through million dollar double blind studies to prove that they were reasonably safe for human use that have turned out to be very harmful to human health. Take fosamax that makes your bones very brittle at the end of 5 years which results in multiple bone fractures. It really is a dog eat dog world out there.

    1. You had me until you got to the global warming speak. I don’t know about hackers, but I do know about what’s going on on the planet and it’s pretty horrific. But it doesn’t take a debate, just a tiny sprinkling of common sense… constant deforestation, constant dumping of toxic waste, constant plastic production and waste, constant depletion of the oceans, and the list goes on and on and on…. Even without the tragic evidence all over the world, the slight knowledge of just some of the things we’re doing would be enough to realize this is not sustainable and it would take an absolute fool to deny that or someone who simply just doesn’t care.

      1. S
        “You had me until you got to the global warming speak.”
        You took the words right out of my mouth.

        Regarding the “hacker” reference, your friend is probably referring to that which is known as “ClimateGate,” an attempt to discredit the scientific warnings on global warming. It was an intellectually dishonest and, ultimately, proven bunch of nothing. [in the same vein as RussiaGate, today]. The fact that it was used to prove his point about whom to believe suggests, strongly, to me, that it ain’t Bill.

        1. Nah…you had to be lost before that.
          In the name of the so called scientific research on the Aryan race, the Nazis killed millions of Jews. ” The Nazis never blamed that genocide on science. Gerbels participated in heinous scientific research but that was a separate program. They kept the death camps secret. And killed them all as they hated them. But secrecy was the method of operation. They did not blame science for that. The trains just dropped the innocents off and they never came out…one had to know but none admitted to it.
          So the allies with the victory came to the local towns and forced the inhabitants of them, who had to have known to help clean them up….to make a point. Secrecy was the game not science…

          I have not seen such great misreads on things since…… a bit ago right here on this board.

  8. I am a French medical doctor since 1982 from Paris Medical School and with a board of immunology from Institute Pasteur, I spent a fellowship in the Brain department of Chicago. I had always serious difficulties to explain the French Paradox. It is surely not in the fact to drink a glass of wine from time to time but in the way of preparing the food, the cleaning of the house and the usage walking to go to church or to the synagog applied to go to the small grocery by. I approach Jeanne Calment she was more than 110 at that time. Like all the centenarians I approached in my life, she has the joy of the faith in the good in her life. She has played piano since a young age and was able to raise funds at 120 with a CD for underprivileged elderlies in nursing homes. When with my family (average death age 95) they were educated, wealthy, a special lifestyle: eat your vegetables first, walk to go to church…In America, I coach people with low income and explained my lifestyle to keep the healthy weight. It works but before to give a nutrition plan I have to convince people about food. All other the world you have food with scavenger effects, More in France than everywhere in the world you have food with the poison and the anti-poison. You eat cheese and the probiotics in it to help your digestion and eliminate excess, the French secret is to appreciate diversity, to have the know-how from the mothers to make the Cuisine Bourgeoise healthy and delicious on a weekly plan after shopping at the farmer market. A friend of mine was in premenopause at 36, now 47 she has an evaluation by her gynecologist to be like of the late twenties without a wrinkle, she is eating in Houston TX, a mix of Mexican-French food. There is no French paradox, there is a French know-how to age graciously, it is not in the scientific evaluation.

    1. One of my French teachers (from France) said there was a huge difference in our lifestyles here in America. She said things were more rushed and stressful here and that there they would approach things more relaxed and take more time to basically just live. Also you walked more she said whereas most placed in American, it’s all traffic… alllll traffic.

      1. It looks to me that French philosophy is more oriented to improve life. You eat to live, you walk to improve your circulation you wash your hands to avoid infection at very young age and from memories. This helps to clean food by flaming a skin of chicken instead of rinsing with chloride water etc. Cooking is serious and combining nutrients is a clear way of cooking. I am working to explain cooking as an MD and a French woman and I will say a biochemistry graduate, but it is very difficult to write because what takes me 5 mn because of my know-how has to be explained first to let everyone cooking easy, simple and healthy. It is a math problem, the solution is always popping fast in mind when you know all the basics.

  9. Yeah killer number 1 is heart disease, but don’t die of that and you’ll be alive for killer number 2!

    I wonder if that researcher was being paid by the supplement industry or maybe even wine industry (less likely I would think)? Or maybe he was just getting positive attention… I mean he had to be gaining SOMETHING from putting out so much false information, do they know what it was?

    What about your video showing the benefits of red wine vinegar on arterial function? The one where they tried to figure out what was boosting the arterial function in the women (if memory serves) eatings their salads so they tested the salad itself and the extra virgin olive oil and found it was due to the vinegar. I mean obviously there are antioxidants within red wine and red wine vinegar, but I guess I’m just asking because I’d like to know more specifically about red wine on heart health compared to other alcohols for curiosity more than anything.

    Also, what do the human studies have to say about resveratrol? Have they actually had any decent human studies testing more realistic amounts of resveratrol? I’m curious at this point to know about its antioxidant activity when it’s within (sane amounts of) food.

    Great video!

      1. Oh Lonie… Actually I’ve openly disagreed with some things here and there in his videos in the past, such as my reasons for not believing raw mushrooms are a concern, I think russet potatoes are fine and even very healthy perhaps not in antioxidant content but in overall nutrition, and I never thought the in vitro avocado study was worthy of yellow lighting them (and hooray, for I was right, as later confirmed in a follow up video by Greger). And some videos leave me wanting more, because I have more questions about things unaddressed, however they do an outstanding job at getting the info out there and I can only imagine how much work goes into it, so I wouldn’t complain and am extremely appreciative and impressed for/with all he and his team do.

        1. I was teasing but am happy to learn you think for yourself. I am a little concerned you readily accept the good Dr.s conclusions more often than not.

          Take this video for instance. It makes a case for being anti-resveratrol. And the things dug up fall conveniently in place to support that position. But in my mind, there are too many cutting edge studies out there that strongly suggest the opposite.

          Like Deb worrying that anyone with a position against WFPB diet may cause some who come here to not adopt it, I worry that Dr Greger’s videos may convince those who come here that taking supplemental nutrition is of no value, despite all the data to the contrary.

          While he doesn’t say it, he leaves the impression that his data trumps all other data to the contrary. I think a good approach is…

          “We who are about to die eventually… (maybe’-) salute you… but with healthy skepticism ‘-)

          1. Lonie, Lonie, Lonie…. At this point in our relationship you should know I do nothing BUT think for myself. Of course I accept most of the information given by Dr. Greger because he actually presents to us relevant evidence. No point in disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. Dr. Greger is one of my favorites because of how he presents information openly and thoroughly as opposed to a great many others out there who aren’t so much presenting the science but rather their own ideas based off of various sciences.

            Well I disagree with you on your stance of supplementation. I don’t think that Dr. Greger’s stance is based on “his” data, but what the best evidence has to say. He’s not entirely anti-supplement, either. Obviously he recommends B12 (well, more than recommends, that can be life for death) and vitamin d and recommends algae based DHA/EPA (which I do not feel the need to take and do not do so). But he also acknowledges studies showing the benefits of b complex vitamins for the brain, magnesium in individuals not eating properly, certain benefits of people taking vitamin c supplements, and more I’m sure… however he just believes that the whole food is optimal and for reasons that are well presented here. But he also acknowledges the dangers of certain antioxidant supplements and one of the consequences of supplementing with antioxidants in interfering with one of the benefits of exercise as well as the pathetic lack of regulation in the supplement industry.

          2. Could you reference a couple of the “many cutting edge studies”? I have some healthy skepticism re the claim you make in your comment…

          3. I laugh, because Lonie, I respect your passion and have read just about every study on PubMed about it and have been fooled into buying it twice, but then found out that you need to take bottles worth of the supplement per day

            And i found out that many supplements don’t have the real amount of product in

            And I found out that the supplements are often synthetic

            And I found out that people who take vitamins die faster.

            We just did this discussion about antioxidants. In food, they are good for you. In supplements they kill people faster.

            I have pondered putting ground spices in capsules and taking them, because then it would be the product and that is the way some of the studies talk about doing it, but there was just a video Dr Greger did when people had to take hundreds of pills a day.

            (was it this video? Sorry, I have brain issues. I do still actually watch the videos and try to be accurate in my comments, but I am less likely to be perfect than some people.)

            1. Sorry, I have brain issues. I do still actually watch the videos and try to be accurate in my comments, but I am less likely to be perfect than some people.)

              Deb, thank you for ending your post with the above. Before doing that I was considering identifying you as being one of the most dangerous people on Nutrition Facts . org. Reason is for being so matter-of-fact that what you believe is the one real truth.

              If I remember correctly, you posted in another place that you actually took an entire bottle of supplements at one time? I hope I read that incorrectly because if true that is pure folly.

              But Deb, I am happy to read that your health has improved due to you dietary changes. OBTW, have I mentioned to you that I intend to set a new record for longevity?

              When you set such lofty goals, you’d better not only read the research… you’d better understand it. ‘-)

          4. This topic particularly has;

            One study with wrong results

            And

            A researcher falsifying a whole lot of studies

            AND

            Researchers hiding behind nonhuman studies.

            Ten thousand inconclusive studues on humans is worse than the Avocado industry skewing their results by replacing meat over and over again.

            I think he said thousands of fraudulent studies.

            How do you know the studies you have been looking at aren’t phony?

  10. Dr. Greger,MD

    Drinking Red wine definitely increases
    HDL which is suppose to be benefical to our hearts. And heart disease is the number one killer. So why wasn’t this mentioned at all in your video today? Now I am confused. We shouldn’t increase our HDL or will just eating 5 ounces of grapes a day increase our HDL identically as drinking 5ozs of red wine a day? Please respond.
    Thank you

    1. Terry, I was just reading a study where there was no improvement of HDL at one year of moderate drinking. (More drinking than moderate worsens cardiovascular markers is what a different study said) I think the fact alcohol causes Cancer, Dr. Greger isn’t going to be spending a lot of extra effort to prove there might be minor benefit sometimes, like with exercise.

      “…The IVV study is the first long-term, prospective randomised trial comparing the effect of red and white wine on markers of atherosclerosis. The study included 146 people with mild to moderate risk of cardiovascular disease according to the HeartScore. Participants were randomised to one year of moderate consumption of red wine (Pinot Noir) or white wine (Chardonnay-Pinot) from the same year and wine region of the Czech Republic.

      Moderate consumption was the World Health Organization definition of 0.2 L for women and 0.3 L for men, a maximum of five times a week. The primary endpoint was the level of HDL cholesterol at one year. Secondary endpoints were levels of other markers of atherosclerosis including LDL cholesterol. Participants consumed their usual diet.

      Participants kept a logbook on their consumption of wine and other alcoholic beverages, medication use, and amount and type of exercise. They were required to return the corks from the wine bottles to confirm that they had drank the wine rather than sold it.

      The researchers found that there was no difference between HDL cholesterol levels at the beginning of the study compared to one year in either the red or white wine groups. LDL cholesterol was lower in both groups at one year while total cholesterol was lower only in the red wine group.

      Professor Taborsky said: “A rise in HDL cholesterol is the main indication of a protective effect against CVD, therefore we can conclude that neither red or white wine had any impact on study participants as a whole.”

      He added: “The only positive and continuous result was in the subgroup of patients who took more exercise, which means regular exercise at least twice a week, plus the wine consumption. In this group HDL cholesterol increased and LDL and total cholesterol decreased in the

      red and white wine groups. There may be some synergy between the low dose of ethyl alcohol in wine and exercise which is protective against CVD.”

      He continued: “In a future study we will compare the effects of red and white wine on markers of atherosclerosis in patients at high risk for CVD who take statins and do regular exercise. We hope to find that moderate wine consumption is safe in these patients.”

    2. I think the point Dr Greger was making was that your accepting the popular press about “Drinking red wine definitely increases HDL which is supposed to be beneficial to our hearts” is that when reviewed that assumption just didn’t stand up: (quote from video) “[A]fter more than 20 years of well-funded research, resveratrol has no proven human activity.” It may have been true in lab animals but not in HUMAN trials” Dr.Greger did mention heart disease as the number one killer (easier to find these things on transcript) but then explained why red wine isn’t the solution to heart disease.
      And yes, we SHOULD increase our HDL but we would need LOTS of wine to do that as was so eloquently described. Just 5 oz of grapes might help a little, but exercise has been more closely associated with increased HDL and is much easier to focus on. Dr Greger does discuss HDL in detail in this video which I’d encourage you to review for a better understanding of HDL. https://nutritionfacts.org/video/coconut-oil-and-the-boost-in-hdl-good-cholesterol/ starting with the 4th paragph in the transcript. Hope this clears us some of that confusion. Glad you’re watching these videos so you can get science-based answers instead of media hype!

      1. Hello Joan,

        Thanks for trying to help but your statement that wine does not raise HDL is incorrect.

        I have had a physical with blood work every year for more than a decade and there is irrefutable proof that red wine increases HDL substantially and is not something made up.

        Are there gold standard scientific studies showing that a very small number of grapes eaten per day will raise HDL equivalent to a single glass of red wine?

        I am aware exercise also helps HDL.

    1. LOL! Yes, “I love the taste of” is the argument our minds make while we look for the cherry picked study to justify everything.

      1. I do wish the benefits of red wine were as awesome as I previously believed… how great would that be? I still say if drinking, it is the best choice and when I do, I appreciate the antioxidants that go along with it, but I never binge drink and rarely drink. So I think it’s fine to enjoy a glass or two of wine on the holidays or at a party even if not necessarily healthy overall… Still, I am so curious to see different alcohols compared as opposed to an overall generalization.
        Also he has a video on red wine vinegar improving arterial function. I haven’t watched it in a while. Of course we don’t drink a glass of vinegar in a sitting, I don’t think there’s very much alcohol.

        1. Laughing at the red wine vinegar.

          Yes, I internally am not against a glass of wine at a celebration or an occasional trip to France.

          I just no longer will believe it is good for me.

  11. I disagree that there is no benefit from resveratrol intake. I personally do not take any wine based resveratrol but I do get it from Japanese Knotweed supplements, peanut butter, dark chocolate and probably some other foods I’m not aware of.

    The reason I try to get resveratrol from the many sources is because of its proven relationship with Sirt 1. Sirt 1 has a known positive affect on NAD+ in our bodies and NAD+ has been shown to have a positive association with clearing our arteries of deposits. The link below is concerned with Nicotinamide Riboside, but it is also known as a Sirt 1 activator.

    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-03/uoca-dss032718.php

    Another SIRT 1 activator akin to NR is NMN, Nicotinamide Mononucleotide. Below is a quote from some research I’ll link to below:

    After 18-month-old mice were treated with NMN for two months, their capillary density was restored to levels typically seen in young mice, and they experienced a 56 to 80 percent improvement in endurance. Beneficial effects were also seen in mice up to 32 months of age (comparable to humans in their 80s).

    “In normal aging, the number of blood vessels goes down, so you lose the capacity to deliver nutrients and oxygen to tissues like muscle, and that contributes to decline,” Guarente says. “The effect of the precursors that boost NAD is to counteract the decline that occurs with normal aging, to reactivate SIRT1, and to restore function in endothelial cells to give rise to more blood vessels.”

    Another SIRT 1 activator is Oxaloacetic Acid. And while I take the NMN and the NR daily, I only occasionally take the OA. But I do take the Resveratrol and take it twice daily… once as a liquid and another as a vegi-cap.

    Reasoning for doing this is not so much the SIRT 1 enzyme activity, but more for the recent discovery that resveratrol analogues restore senescent cells to their younger state. Granted the study was done in vitro, but it was human cells that they bathed in the resveratrol.

    https://www.exeter.ac.uk/news/research/title_620529_en.html

    It is my studied opinion that disregarding resveratrol for consumption is done at one’s own peril.

      1. Lonie, the problem with resveratrol has been that it takes “a million bottles of beer on the wall”. I tried to find the details of the study to see if it might take “a half a million bottles of beer” to affect it, but it is an in vitro study and most supplements don’t work, because they don’t even have the product in it at high enough levels for things, which didn’t take a million bottles of beer.

        Broccoli sprouts don’t require even ten cups to have an effect, but the supplements don’t have enough to do anything at all.

        1. I do not believe in antioxidant supplementation for reasons in various Nutritionfacts.org videos including not trusting the supplement industry and undermining some of the benefits of exercise (https://nutritionfacts.org/video/enhanced-athletic-recovery-without-undermining-adaptation/) and due to learning that isolated antioxidants can actually turn into pro-oxidants as explained brilliantly on the website World’s Healthiest Foods, but I can’t seem to find the article right now. However, if someone WERE to supplement with resveratrol, I would say that Garden of Life is probably their best bet as they’re a reliable supplement company likely to have in it what they claim and I also like that they get their vitamins, etc. from plant foods (most of them) and their My Kind line has a patented water extraction method which actually extracts the nutrients out of organic whole plant foods. Unfortunately palm oil is part of their patented blend in their “other” ingredients, but luckily at least not in their spray bottles and luckily I find no need to take vitamins anyway (apart from B12 and vit. D).

          Anyways, I find the senescent cell thing interesting and hopefully more research will be done on that.

        2. Lonie, the problem with resveratrol has been that it takes “a million bottles of beer on the wall”. I tried to find the details of the study to see if it might take “a half a million bottles of beer” to affect it, but it is an in vitro study and most supplements don’t work, because they don’t even have the product in it at high enough levels for things, which didn’t take a million bottles of beer.

          Deb, the link to the particulars of the study is within the article itself.

          And in your parroting Greger’s million bottles of beer on the wall (which I think he stated as a joke ‘-) is the argument most used for not getting maximum doses of certain kinds of nutrition, I think you may have that backwards.

          Because supplements are concentrated (dried supplements mean you can get high doses of something by reducing large amounts of fresh herbs/spices into a small amount for consumption.)

          And yes, you can get high values of concentrated resveratrol via supplementation.

          To be clear, I understand what WFPB or Vegans go through from non-believers. As someone who is a true-believer in supplementation of the diet, I experience the same push-back from WFPB/Vegans. ‘-)

    1. Lonie

      We have discussed this before but it is worth repeating that resveratrol analogues are not resveratrol and “bathing cells in resveratrol” would be pretty much impossible to achieve through either diet or supplementation. And anyone contemplating high dose resveratrol supplementation should in any case be awre that

      “Resveratrol toxicity. Although generally well tolerated in animals, RSV can exhibit severe side effects when given at high doses (la Porte et al., 2010; Popat et al., 2013). Hence, new long-term studies are needed to evaluate the effect of RSV supplementation in human health and identify approaches toward the prevention and treatment of side effects. In addition, a better understanding of the interaction of RSV with other drugs and supplements is key to reduce adverse events ”
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5835393/

      1. resveratrol analogues are not resveratrol and “bathing cells in resveratrol” would be pretty much impossible to achieve through either diet or supplementation.

        Yes Tom, we have discussed this before. And as I pointed out before, in this case the analogues are resveratrol separated out to tease which parts of the resveratrol molecule is doing the actual work.

        In the abstract of the research they show which ones are doing the best job of causing the senescent cells to rejuvenate. I’m assuming this separation was done in order to patent or synthesize the analogue that works the best and therefore to be rewarded for their discovery.

        I am not waiting for the long drawn out process of human trials for a product (resveratrol) that has been on the market for years with no adverse effects that I’m aware of.

        I take resveratrol every day and will continue to do so. I do not expect it to harm me… quite the opposite.

        1. Fair enough Lonie but resveratrol analogues are not “resveratrol separated out” – they are synthetic chemicals made in the laboratory.to resemblr resveratrol.

          Also, thalidomide was on the market for many years with no known (serious) adverse effects that anyone was aware of. So were vitamin E and beta carotene supplements

          Best of luck to you.but I understand that you have to take about 2 grammes a day to get the dosage used in clinical trials

          1. Tom, there is an image of the different stages of a treatment of a senescent cell and under the image they specifically refer to the treatment being resveratrol.

            That’s good enough for me to continue my resveratrol regimen. I don’t recall them stating at what strength the resveratrol, but normally it is more than we would take in order to speed up the test results.

            That’s fine with me because I’m not in it for the quick fix. I am more than happy to wait years to finalize all my senescent cells being rejuvenated… as long as my long-term gratification is reached because the resveratrol is working gradually and helping me be well till that long-term goal is attained.

            And I find it hard to make a connection between resveratrol and thalidomide in both efficacy and danger. Oh, and if memory serves… thalidomide is making a comeback for something or another use… just not for pregnant women.

            So I’m o.k. with pregnant women not taking resveratrol. They should eat tons of ice cream and pickles instead. ‘-)

          2. Tom, reading further in the discussion part of the data, the following was noted.

            Our data are also consistent with earlier studies in siRNA SIRT1 knockout cells which demonstrated that the effect of resveratrol on splicing factor expression occurs irrespective of SIRT1 activity [22]

            1. Yes, I am sure that they are very similar to resveratrol and that is why their results are “consistent with”. All I am saying is that they are not actually reveratrol or extracts of resveratrol.

              I used to take resveratrol myself but I’m uneasy about isolated supplements and what with taking algal oil, vitamin D3/K2 plus various supplements for my glaucoma, I was starting to rattle when I walked. I now rely on daily grape/berry/peanut consumption instead.

              Good luck with your resvertarol self experimentation but I’ve always been a “it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese” kind of bloke.

              1. Tom, thanks for weighing in. I used to take it, too, but if I remember right, even if the supplements actually had the real product in it in the amounts they say, I would have had to take hundreds of capsules per day and it is synthetic and those don’t work for almost anything else.

                I briefly did do the whole bottle of enzymes per day while I had Cancer symptoms along with Gersons drinks and the Cancer killing food salads. (I was taking sulfophane, too, but when I saw what a tiny benefit the supplements had versus broccoli sprouts, I stopped spending a fortune on supplements.

                It was only Cancer and Alzheimer’s and Diabetes symptoms that drove me to spend thousands of dollars on pills and choke thrn down all day long, but I am getting better results cheaper with food.

                Lonie, supplements in general don’t work much at all. One of the studies recently had results taking 238 capsules per day of something.

                Most of the bottles I was buying only had 90 capsules in them. Many only had 30 or 60.

                I stopped resveratrol because the concept of taking two bottles of it per day was cost prohibitive and made me want to throw up.

                And as far as the million bottles of beer on the wall being a joke, it isn’t that kind of a joke as to be lying about things.

                It is a sarcastic OBSERVATIONAL joke, based on how ridiculously high the amount you would have to take to have an effect.

                That is the point.

                Mathematically it is nearly impossible.

                It might even be impossible.

                Some of the hot dog contest people might pull it off for one day with grapes or something.

                Pretty sure you might die if you drank that much alcohol in one day.

                I got scammed into buying the supplements two times, based on cell studies and read the math both times and stopped both times and if my brain doesn’t blank out, I won’t make the mistake a third time.

              2. Yes, I am sure that they are very similar to resveratrol and that is why their results are “consistent with”. All I am saying is that they are not actually reveratrol or extracts of resveratrol.

                Tom I guess you missed this post directly above yours where they are referencing earlier studies that “demonstrated that the effect of resveratrol on splicing factor expression…” I’ve reposted below. ‘-)

                Tom, reading further in the discussion part of the data, the following was noted.

                Our data are also consistent with earlier studies in siRNA SIRT1 knockout cells which demonstrated that the effect of resveratrol on splicing factor expression occurs irrespective of SIRT1 activity [22]

                1. Lonie

                  I am not following you. All that quote says to me is their studies of resveratrol analogues delivered results consistent with resuts delivered by actual resveratrol. It is quite clear that this is what they mean since the entire article is about the effects of novel resveratrol analogues (which they have decided to call resveralogues):

                  “We have overcome this limitation through development of a novel library of resveratrol-related compounds (resveralogues) which are all capable of either directly or indirectly influencing the expression of multiple splicing factors of both SRSF and HNRNP subtypes, whilst exhibiting differential activity against SIRT1 and SASP.”

                  And yes I saw the ‘consistent with’ statement but consistent with is not the same as ‘identically to’. This particular study went further thn the referenced reveratrol study did. BTW, the discussion section also noted

                  “The renewal of proliferation we observe upon resveralogue treatment obviously raises questions about the potential cancer risk attached to such treatment, should it eventually be employed in a clinical setting.”

                  That is another reason why I am cautious about your conclusions

                  Your supposition that the effects shown by resveratrol analogues on cells will also be delivered by resveratrol itself may be correct but it has not yet been demonstrated.

                  Even if it were, I still don’t see how dietary or supplemental resveratrol could possibly “bathe’ human cells in reveratrol. That was only achieved in vitro – how could this possibly be achieved in vivo I wonder?

                  Here’s the link below to the actual study if anybody else is interested in this. I have to say though that i don’t have either the knowledge or the training to fully understand the technicalities of the study. If anybody else does, it woud be interesting to hear from them

                  https://bmccellbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12860-017-0147-7

                  1. Tom, you are turning something simple into complicated confusion for the sake of argument.

                    Here’s the KISS.

                    Yes they are using resveratrol-mimicking small molecules of their own making, and they also used resveratrol.

                    But my interest lies in “does Resveratrol give the same results as even these resveratrol analogues?”

                    The quote by the researchers of this study says that in a previous study the findings were consistent with their own… i.e., Resveratrol did indeed have the same effect on restoring splicing factors as their small molecule analogues tested (and they used Resveratrol in their testing as well.)

                    That is, their study confirms the other study which used Resveratrol sans analogues of Resveratrol.

                    As a user of the product and searching for the outcome found in the study, all I’m interested in is has Resveratrol been used to achieve these findings?

                    The science says YES!

                  2. “The renewal of proliferation we observe upon resveralogue treatment obviously raises questions about the potential cancer risk attached to such treatment, should it eventually be employed in a clinical setting.”

                    Thought I should address this part of your response. I think the researchers are just doing their due diligence as scientists. They offered no evidence that restoring splicing factors could lead to cancer.

                    In my estimation, they should not have offered such a charged-word possibility. I assume they thought other scientists would read their findings and assume that was the token “say something negative to balance out the fantastic positive this study presents.” That’s just an accepted journalism technique.

                    But the questions I ask are, if the splicing factors are being rejuvenated to their original state, wouldn’t that be more of a protective against getting cancer? After all, our chances of getting cancer are greater when old (that is, when the splicing factors lose their effectiveness.) Getting them, and sequentially getting our cells back to their younger state should be a protective against cancer.

                    I suppose the fact our telomeres also get back to normal is where that suggestion comes from, but my gut tells me that this is a natural product (Resveratrol) getting our bodies back to their natural younger state.

                    Using created small molecule resveralogues may not exactly qualify as a natural product, but that may be the only way to patent a product that does the same work as the Resveratrol.

                    And that could be why the researchers put the cancer qualifier in… that the analogues may have a different outcome than true Resveratrol.

    1. In the (French) Lyon Diet Heart trial, when butter and cream were replaced by margarines containing unsaturated fat, heart disease rates plummeted.

      “50% to 70% lower risk of recurrent heart disease, as measured by 3 different combinations of outcome measures including (1) cardiac death and nonfatal heart attacks; (2) the preceding plus unstable angina, stroke, heart failure, and pulmonary or peripheral embolism; and (3) all of these measures plus events that required hospitalization.”
      http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/103/13/1823

      While there were other changes in the diet, this doesn’t exactly suggest that butter is healthy. Further a recent Harvard study found

      “When dairy fat was replaced with the same number of calories from vegetable fat or polyunsaturated fat, the risk of cardiovascular disease dropped by 10% and 24%, respectively. Furthermore, replacing the same number of calories from dairy fat with healthful carbohydrates from whole grains was associated with a 28% lower risk of cardiovascular disease.”
      https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2016/10/25/dairy-fat-cardiovascular-disease-risk/

      Given that butter is pretty much 100% dairy fat, consuming it doesn’t seem like a good idea – to me at least,

      1. Did you even watch the video? The science is on his side. He’s been studying this stuff for a long time. And the science is solid. And please tell me how he could possibly turn that into financial success. No special drugs. Nothing expensive.

        You sound like a drug company shill.

        I understand that the drug companies constantly attack science that shows things like Vitamin C in a positive light. They’re the one’s with financial reasons to say what they say. And call their opponents ‘dangerous cranks’.

        1. Richard

          The science isn’t on his side. If you want to know what the science says about this, visit the Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University. It shows that vitamin C probably does have benefits in reducing cardiovadcular risk but it’s not a cure-all.

          Have you even visited his website? It is clear that the man has an ego the size of a small planet.
          http://www.drrathresearch.org/drrath-discoveries

          As for how he makes money from these sorts of claims, if you really want to find out, visit his online shop
          https://shop.drrath.com/

          And I am a drug industry shill?

          “Rath claims that a program of nutritional supplements (which he calls “cellular medicine”), including formulations that he sells, can treat or cure diabetes, cardiovascular disease, cancer, and HIV/AIDS.[7][8] These claims are not supported by any reliable medical research.[9][10] Rath runs the Dr. Rath Health Foundation, has been closely associated with Health Now, Inc.,[11] and founded the Dr. Rath Research Institute.

          The Sunday Times (Johannesburg) has described Rath as an “international campaigner for the use of natural remedies” whose “theories on the treatment of cancer have been rejected by health authorities all over the world.”[12] On HIV/AIDS, Rath has disparaged the pharmaceutical industry and denounced antiretroviral medication as toxic and dangerous, while claiming that his vitamin pills could reverse the course of AIDS. As a result, Rath has been accused of “potentially endangering thousands of lives” in South Africa, a country with a massive AIDS epidemic where Rath was active in the mid-2000s.[1] The head of Médecins Sans Frontières said “This guy is killing people by luring them with unrecognised treatment without any scientific evidence”; Rath attempted to sue him.[9][10][13]

          Rath’s claims and methods have been widely criticised by medical organisations, AIDS-activist groups, and the United Nations, among others.[4][5][14][15] Former South African President Thabo Mbeki and former Minister of Health Manto Tshabalala-Msimang have also been criticised by the medical and AIDS-activist community for their perceived support for Rath’s claims.[14][16][17] According to doctors with Médecins Sans Frontières,[18] the Treatment Action Campaign (a South African AIDS-activist group)[19] and a former Rath colleague,[20] unauthorised clinical trials run by Rath and his associates, using vitamins as therapy for HIV, resulted in deaths of some participants. In 2008, the Cape High Court found the trials unlawful, banned Rath and his foundation from conducting unauthorised clinical trials and from advertising their products, and instructed the South African Health Department to fully investigate Rath’s vitamin trials.[19][21] In 2008, Rath expanded his advertising to Russia, a country where the incidence of HIV/AIDS had been increasing.[1]”
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthias_Rath

          We must all be drug industry shills apparently.

  12. Any advice on wfpb home economics? I mean how much to buy of each food group, how much refrigerator space I would need, how often to buy. Also, where can I get plant based source of taurine? I found online that red algae is good. how much per serving? Any way of reducing iodine in those foods without destroying the taurine? Any seaweed with a good amino acid profile, low minerals, no b12 analogues, or other negatives? Any good supplements/fortified foods with taurine? Just want 50mg daily dose not much.

    1. Humans do not need taurine, cats on the other hand… Like cows and other herbivorous animals, we produce it on our own. I wouldn’t worry about it, just eat an abundance of whole plant foods and you’ll see how well you do.

      Super easy to stock up on dried beans, legumes, and grains. And it’s always incredibly helpful to have canned beans around. It’s pretty easy to stock up on nuts and seeds too as well as spices, etc. I use a good amount of cupboard space and have a decent sized pantry which is helpful. The things I have to regularly go to the store for are pretty much produce. I stock up on frozen berries. You can also freeze your own produce to help it last longer if you want to stock up or you could buy frozen but check out Dr. Greger’s videos on broccoli to learn about sulforaphane (if you cooked from frozen, you’ll want to add a small amount of mustard seed powder to activate it). I also pre grind my flax seeds and keep it sealed in the freezer, although the fridge would be good enough for some time, I use a coffee grinder.
      In the late spring, summer and through early fall I have a garden so not only is it extremely economical, but it’s so convenient to have all the fresh produce!! And saves room not having to store it in the fridge. I highly recommend gardening. Imo, it’s a lot easier than the “how to” blogs make it seem, I think the trick is quality soil and quality natural and organic fertilizer.

      Buying in bulk helps for affordability and buying online does as well. I am a fan of Terrasoul where you can buy in bulk. They have high quality products at competitive prices… their prices are awesome. And they actually sell raw truly unpasteurized almonds which are very hard to find. Another favorite website of mine is vitacost, their prices are amazing as is their customer service. Both sites have free shipping over a certain amount which is a must for me.

      Sorry if I was a bit ramble-y, just trying to offer whatever I could.

    2. Hi, Arthur. The Daily Dozen can help you decide what to buy and how much. Cost will vary widely depending on where you shop, and how often to buy will depend on how perishable each individual food is. Leafy greens need to be purchased frequently, but dried beans and grains keep a long time. With regard to taurine, there is no need for humans to consume it, as it is not an essential amino acid, but one our bodies are able to make. Don’t worry about amino acid profiles. If you follow the Daily Dozen, you will get all the amino acids you need. I hope that helps!

      1. Thanks for replying. I figure that healthy people can produce all the amino acids they need but what about the sick and elderly? Here’s a study I found about metformin’s effects on serine metabolism.
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25377470. I don’t really get what the study says but I’ll make some guesses about the implicaitons. If serine’s depleted in the body, sure it may reduce cancer but what about the negatives? A google search on serine says it’s involved in fat metabolism, immune system function and cell membranes. I think glycine is derived from serine in the body (I think), and that’s important too, as it’s the most abundant amino acid. My father has been on metformin for 20 years, is now in dementia, and may have been affected by chronic deprivation of amino acids. Who knows what the impact of medications are on liver function, amino acid metabolism etc.

        For the advice on how to shop, i’ll have to manage a twice a week visit to the groceries for the perishables. It would be better though if i knew how much fridge space i would need for once a week veg and green shopping, to meet daily dozen targets, for four adults.

        1. cant help you on fridge space since I only feed myself and I don’t really go by a check list so my portions vary. I do eat a ton of produce though. Once washed, I wrap my greens in towels to store in the fridge which takes up an entire shelf for me, but I have a small fridge at the moment. Then I have both vegetable crispers filled with produce. But again, my fridge is a bit smaller than average.

          As for amino acids, even the elderly or sick should be fine, WFPB diets have been shown to be curative for many diseases after all. Our bodies are very intelligent in design and foods are so brilliantly complex. If you’re looking for foods with exceptionally high protein, lentils are great and beans and legumes in general. We get every single amino acid we need and then some, from plants. If you haven’t yet, you might be interested in reading Dr. Greger’s book “How Not To Die.”

          Good luck!

      2. I just realised the study i cited was about inducing a serine deficiency in the diet to improve the anti cancer effects of metformin. Sorry. I can’t seem to find a study to support my hunch and jumped to the wrong conclusion. Perhaps it’s not possible to study the effects of medications on things like cellular metabolism. I mean how can you prove it, especially if it induces a marginal deficiency or excess, and/or something else. Still, medications have effects and side effects, and while their behaviour is not well understood, you can’t rule out negative effects on fundamental biochemistry. A diet without preformed peptides, low vitamin intake, and a body compromised by disease/medication side effects/genes seems risky. Taurine is good for protecting the lens of the eye from glycation and thus cataracts. Also it’s likely that the vitamin intake is too low and it’s causing problems with metabolism.

        1. Arthur, plant foods such as fruits, veggies, dark green leafies (also vegetables but Dr. Greger seems to name these specifically and for good reason), beans, legumes, nuts, seeds, whole grains, and even fungi are the richest and safest sources of vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, and all that our bodies need without the harmful stuff. Also, our bodies are designed to get our nutrients from these things and not from animal products. Take iron for example, our bodies never evolved a mechanism to stop absorption of heme iron (iron from animal sources) when we’ve had enough, so we can get iron toxicity from animal products whereas plants are abundant in iron but once our bodies had enough, it’s able to stop absorption. This is just one example out of many.
          I would say people on a Standard American Diet high in animal products and processed foods and low in whole plant foods typically probably do not get enough of many things.
          We produce taurine on our own so as long as you’re eating a diet built up of the foods that Dr. Greger recommends, and eating enough, you should be more than fine.

          In regards to cataracts, Dr. Greger has a really good video on it here somewhere. From my understanding, we develop cataracts as a last resort to protect the retinas. We need zeaxanthin and lutein to protect the retinas (plants being the absolute highest source, kale especially… not sure if spinach has more or just as much) and when our bodies do not get enough and our retinas are being damaged through lack of the nutrients it needs to protect them, our bodies develop cataracts out of desperation basically.

          1. ^I should add that supplementing with lutein is actually dangerous. Meanwhile they’re selling “lutein blue” or something like that and advertising it for eye protection for people looking at their phones and such… The supplement industry is horrible. The science is available yet they’re still pushing that on people and don’t care how many customers harm themselves or even their children while trying to simply be healthy. Absolutely sickening. Ok rant over (for now). Here’s the video on lutein supplements: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/lutein-lycopene-and-selenium-pills/

          2. Thanks for the comment. Taurine also helps with the retina too. I read through ‘becoming vegan’ today. It says that raw and sprouted lentils have about 1-26mg of taurine per gram of dry weight. Don’t know how to sprout safely. Don’t know if other legumes have taurine too when sprouted. Something I should look into.

  13. Once again, great information. Keeping it simple like Dr. Greger says with a WFPBD- and no hang-over and risk of illness from the ETOH part.

    A proud and healthy monthly supporter of Nutritionfacts.org

    1. Pleeeeeeease stop whining about what the scientific evidence has to say just because you’d prefer to believe something else.

      And pleeeeeease stop destroying the ocean and planet with senseless unsustainable practices like fishing (it’s all “overfishing” at this point).

      1. sorry Mark, no sale. A marketing pamphlet download with non clickable links does not constitute proof to me. Dr Greger has already done the searching and sifting through the literature, and publishes his findings on this site where all can search through the source material. Nothing to recommend fish oil, though algae sourced omega 3’s is recommended. More on fish https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/fish/ and on omega 3’s and other specific recommendations https://nutritionfacts.org/2011/09/12/dr-gregers-2011-optimum-nutrition-recommendations/
        Good luck.

        1. Not trying to sell nor prove anything. Just trying to educate. The download in my previous comment is not a marketing pamphlet. It is well-researched data compiled by Dr. Rhonda Patrick of the Bruce Ames lab. Dr. Ames is a well-accomplished leader in the field of nutrition, and has been publishing high quality research before Dr. Greger was born. In case you didn’t notice, Dr. Patrick’s name is on the 1st page of my download, and there are 164 credible citations at the end. These people are real scientists from the world of academia. Dr. Greger, although he gets a lot of things right, is a clinician with an agenda that even Stevie Wonder can see. If you would consider taking a mini mental health break from your Dr. Jesus Greger mania, you could check out the following 2 links. one for info on the Ames lab, and the other for Dr. Patrick’s website. After watching her interview a few of the best academic scientists in the World, you will be screaming OMFG!! to yourself. And just to let you know a little of why I know who the best in the World are, I work with one of them at Johns Hopkins. So here are the links, and you can thank me later : ))
          http://www.bruceames.org/rp.php and https://www.foundmyfitness.com/

      2. My understanding is that there is a benefit from omega 3 supplementation and indeed Dr Greger himself recommends that people take an amega 3 supplement (250 mg daily). However, he recommends algal or yeast based omega 3 supplements in preference to fish oil because of the risk of contaminants from fish based products.
        https://nutritionfacts.org/2011/09/12/dr-gregers-2011-optimum-nutrition-recommendations/

        My understanding, from the ebook you referenced, is that Dr Patrick also believes that algal omega 3 supplements are a valid alternative to fish oil.

        In any case, Dr Greger is hardly alone in questioning the benefits of fish oil for CHD/CVD prevention
        http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/135/15/e867

        1. TG: Excellent post. Everything you typed is spot on! And for sure I am not convinced of great benefits for CHD/CVD either. My original post was to express my displeasure with Dr. G continually knocking fish oil. Yes! There is still a long way to go regarding research in its use for many things. However, there’s overwhelming evidence for its use in decreasing inflammation with regard to chronic pain. Millions of people all over the World have been successful with it including myself and friends of mine. The key is to find a high-quality oil that is ultra purified and free of contaminants. A lot of the stuff out there is junk, but both Nordic Naturals and Norwegian Pure 3 seem to be 2 of the brands which have been beat to death with scrutiny and have proven to be safe and effective. I think Dr. G. is doing a great disservice to his worshipers by equating it with snake oil. My snake oil from Norway has relieved me of several chronic golfing pains that I’ve had for the better part of 12 years. I’m on top of my game again after useless time spent at physical therapy, massage, acupuncture, voodoo symposiums, and Buddhist retreats : ))

          Cheers!

  14. In this video on resveratrol, there is a lot of discrediting of resveratrol studies. Were is this new science? I do not see links. The studies I have seen are human clinical trials published in medical journals. So what’s going on? Why are you discrediting studies on resveratrol without posting links to these studies? Is this just one video in a series, and you expound more later? Thank you.

    1. New scietific studies iand findings do not “discredit” anything. They simply add to our understanding and correct errors if they have occurred. “Discrediting” is only an appropriate term where falsification of evidence has been shown to have occurred.

      The sources cited in Dr G’s videos are always set out in the “sources cited” box immediately under the video. Just click on the link.

  15. Mark, the Rhonda Patrick article you reference reads more like an infomercial than real science.

    I pursue my advice elsewhere.

    1. James. Thanks for your reply. However, if my previous reference does not cut it for you, I would encourage visiting the 2 links I provided for Kelly above. And trust me. I get it. Many people are doing a good thing for themselves following some of the advise of Dr. Greger. He is doing a great service, but there are things he and his staff are missing. He is not a tell-all master of health and nutrition. There are other sources out there who have significantly more scientific experience than Dr. G. and his staff.

    1. Well yes from the study you link Mike…
      Healthy diets can be advocated based on protein sources, preferring low contributions of protein from meat and higher intakes of plant protein from nuts and seeds.”

      but I would not agree that all comments are useless, but that it appears by my read at least Resveratrol is useless for any particular health benefit.

      All said and done if one wants to take a thing or two as a supplement, and many if not most do…this one is it appears a waste of money.
      If one wants to drink wine or some other thing and feels happy with that and does not overindulge….I say go for it. Worrying about this or that to much is one worry to much. Just don’t expect resveraltrol to provide much of anything.
      It may but probably not. The basis of our diet its heart common sense tells us is the key to dietary health or not. One specific element in it…how much can that be a effect? Reasonably we can say with no exception I know of…..not really that much at all.
      Adding all the bits together is diet not one part or this or that.

  16. What about the effects of red wine on cholesterol, especially the good levels? Can this be a benefit to someone beyond the negatives?

  17. Hi Seanm. Thanks for your question. Check this few studies that I could find regarding your question:

    *Red or white wine consumption effect on atherosclerosis in healthy individuals (In Vino Veritas study).

    CONCLUSION:
    We did not find any clinically relevant differences in the lipid profile, CRP, fasting blood glucose and other markers of atherosclerosis, between long-term consumption of red and white wine. Moreover, we were unable to confirm the hypothesis that wine drinking is associated with an elevation of HDL

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28516793

    *Effect of red wine and red grape extract on blood lipids, haemostatic factors, and other risk factors for cardiovascular disease.

    CONCLUSION:
    Moderate red wine consumption for 4 weeks is associated with desirable changes in HDL-C and fibrinogen compared with drinking water with or without red grape extract. The impact of wine on the measured cardiovascular risk factors thus seems primarily explained by an alcohol effect. Our finding suggests that the putative difference in cardiac risk associated with wine vs other alcoholic beverages might be rather explained by other life-style confounders than by red wine contents of nonalcohol components.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15674304

    Hope that helps.

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