Gut Microbiome – Strike It Rich with Whole Grains

Gut Microbiome – Strike It Rich with Whole Grains
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What can we eat to increase good gut bacteria richness in our colon?

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

Yes, we live in a so-called obesogenic environment—cheap junk food everywhere, thanks in part to subsidies going to the “’food industrial complex’ which manufactures obesogenic foods that foster addiction.” The root causes may make obesity difficult to escape. But, look, a lot of people do. If it was just the external environment, why isn’t everyone obese?

Some individuals seem to be more susceptible than others. This suggests a genetic component, supported by studies of twins and adopted kids. But, the genes we’ve identified only account for maybe 6 to 11% of the variation in body mass index between individuals. So, maybe variation in our “other genome” may be playing a role—all the different microbes that inhabit our body. We have a hundred times more bacterial genes inside us than human genes.

What this study found is that people tend to fall into one of two groups: those who have lots of different types of bacteria in their gut (so-called high gut “bacterial richness”), and those with relatively few types. And, those with low bacterial richness had more overall body fat, insulin resistance (the cause of type 2 diabetes), high triglycerides, and higher levels of inflammatory markers, like C-reactive protein, compared to high bacterial richness individuals. And, not only did folks with lower bacterial richness start out heavier, but the obese individuals with lower bacterial richness also gained more weight over time.

The question then becomes: can a dietary intervention have any impact? They tried a calorie-restricted diet, which by definition isn’t very sustainable. But, what we can do is increase our fruit and vegetable intake, which is associated with high bacterial richness. One of “[a] number of studies [that] have associated increased microbial richness, with diets higher in fruits, vegetables, and fiber.”

Now, just giving fiber-type supplements didn’t seem to boost richness. But, the compositional complexity of a whole food—like whole grains—could potentially support a wider scope of bacterial types, thereby leading to an increase in diversity. But, human studies to investigate the effects of whole grains have been neglected— until now.  

Folks were given whole grain barley, brown rice, or both, for a month. And, they did cause an increase in bacterial community diversity. Therefore, it may take a broad range of substrates to increase bacterial diversity, and this can be achieved by eating whole plant foods.

And, the alterations of gut bacteria in the study coincided with a drop in systemic inflammation in the body. See, we used to think that the way fiber in whole grains helped us is by gelling in our small intestines right off our stomach, slowing the rate at which sugars were absorbed, blunting the spike in blood sugars one might get from refined carbs. But, now we know the fiber is broken down in our colon by our friendly flora, which release all sorts of beneficial substances into our bloodstream that can have anti-inflammatory effects, as well. So, maybe what’s happening in our large intestine helps explain the protective effects of whole grain foods against type 2 diabetes.

And, interestingly, the combination of both barley and brown rice worked better than either alone—suggesting a synergistic effect. This may help explain “the discrepancy of the health effects of whole grains obtained in [population-based versus] interventional studies.”

Observational studies strongly suggest that those who consume three servings of whole grains a day tend to have a lower body mass index, less belly fat, less tendency to gain weight. But, recent clinical trials, where you, like, randomize people to eat white bread rolls, versus whole wheat rolls, failed to provide evidence of a beneficial effect on body weight.

Of course, whole grains are so superior nutritionally that they should continue to be encouraged. But, maybe the “interventional trials…failed to show [weight] benefits because they focused on a limited selection of whole grains, while in [the population studies], subjects are [more] likely to consume a diverse set of whole grains which might have synergistic activities.”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image thanks to Larisa Siverina via 123rf.com. Image was modified.

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

Yes, we live in a so-called obesogenic environment—cheap junk food everywhere, thanks in part to subsidies going to the “’food industrial complex’ which manufactures obesogenic foods that foster addiction.” The root causes may make obesity difficult to escape. But, look, a lot of people do. If it was just the external environment, why isn’t everyone obese?

Some individuals seem to be more susceptible than others. This suggests a genetic component, supported by studies of twins and adopted kids. But, the genes we’ve identified only account for maybe 6 to 11% of the variation in body mass index between individuals. So, maybe variation in our “other genome” may be playing a role—all the different microbes that inhabit our body. We have a hundred times more bacterial genes inside us than human genes.

What this study found is that people tend to fall into one of two groups: those who have lots of different types of bacteria in their gut (so-called high gut “bacterial richness”), and those with relatively few types. And, those with low bacterial richness had more overall body fat, insulin resistance (the cause of type 2 diabetes), high triglycerides, and higher levels of inflammatory markers, like C-reactive protein, compared to high bacterial richness individuals. And, not only did folks with lower bacterial richness start out heavier, but the obese individuals with lower bacterial richness also gained more weight over time.

The question then becomes: can a dietary intervention have any impact? They tried a calorie-restricted diet, which by definition isn’t very sustainable. But, what we can do is increase our fruit and vegetable intake, which is associated with high bacterial richness. One of “[a] number of studies [that] have associated increased microbial richness, with diets higher in fruits, vegetables, and fiber.”

Now, just giving fiber-type supplements didn’t seem to boost richness. But, the compositional complexity of a whole food—like whole grains—could potentially support a wider scope of bacterial types, thereby leading to an increase in diversity. But, human studies to investigate the effects of whole grains have been neglected— until now.  

Folks were given whole grain barley, brown rice, or both, for a month. And, they did cause an increase in bacterial community diversity. Therefore, it may take a broad range of substrates to increase bacterial diversity, and this can be achieved by eating whole plant foods.

And, the alterations of gut bacteria in the study coincided with a drop in systemic inflammation in the body. See, we used to think that the way fiber in whole grains helped us is by gelling in our small intestines right off our stomach, slowing the rate at which sugars were absorbed, blunting the spike in blood sugars one might get from refined carbs. But, now we know the fiber is broken down in our colon by our friendly flora, which release all sorts of beneficial substances into our bloodstream that can have anti-inflammatory effects, as well. So, maybe what’s happening in our large intestine helps explain the protective effects of whole grain foods against type 2 diabetes.

And, interestingly, the combination of both barley and brown rice worked better than either alone—suggesting a synergistic effect. This may help explain “the discrepancy of the health effects of whole grains obtained in [population-based versus] interventional studies.”

Observational studies strongly suggest that those who consume three servings of whole grains a day tend to have a lower body mass index, less belly fat, less tendency to gain weight. But, recent clinical trials, where you, like, randomize people to eat white bread rolls, versus whole wheat rolls, failed to provide evidence of a beneficial effect on body weight.

Of course, whole grains are so superior nutritionally that they should continue to be encouraged. But, maybe the “interventional trials…failed to show [weight] benefits because they focused on a limited selection of whole grains, while in [the population studies], subjects are [more] likely to consume a diverse set of whole grains which might have synergistic activities.”

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image thanks to Larisa Siverina via 123rf.com. Image was modified.

Doctor's Note

Little did we know until recently how powerfully our gut bacteria can affect our health. Catch up on the latest science here:

Even white rice can be better than many choices (see Kempner Rice Diet: Whipping Us Into Shape), but brown is better (Is it Worth Switching from White Rice to Brown?) and pigmented rice probably the best.

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

301 responses to “Gut Microbiome – Strike It Rich with Whole Grains

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        1. She’s almost certainly correct but I like to see the science behind people’s opinions.

          YouTube and the internet generally are full of charming and plausible people offering their opinions on this and that. Most of them seem to be either selling something (and willing to state any opinion as a fact if it will get a sale) or are totally sincere but frighteningly ignorant of the subject on which they are pontificating. Consequently, I tend to ignore most videos that do not offer supporting references (that is why I like Dr G’s and PlantPositive’s videos).




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            1. Yes. That might be appropriate if her target audience is obese people eating the SAD who have (pre) diabetes.

              “Glucose and lipid metabolism are strongly related, and any perturbation of carbohydrate metabolism induced by a high carbohydrate diet will also lead to an increase in TG concentrations.148,165 The greater and more rapid this perturbation, the more pronounced are the metabolic consequences. Most detrimental effects of a high carbohydrate diet could be minimized if carbohydrate digestion and absorption were slowed down. The glycaemic index permits identification, among carbohydrate-rich foods, of those with ‘fast’ and ‘slow’ absorption. In particular, the detrimental effects of a high carbohydrate diet on TGs occur mainly when refined carbohydrate-rich foods are consumed, while they are much less prominent if the diet is based largely on fibre-rich, low glycaemic index foods. This applies particularly to people with diabetes or with metabolic syndrome (MetS).173,174”
              http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/37/39/2999

              TGs = triglycerides




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              1. Tom,

                Health literature, and media discussion on health, has been hijacked by people who are looking to lose weight because they makeup the majority of the audience. Of course people who live on the Standard Western Diet (SWD) tend to be overweight, have sparse microbiomes and are negatively impacted by excessive salt consumption et. c. The Glycaemic Index (GI) is for them; eat low GI == lose weight (at least that is the promise). However, for those with experience in healthy eating it has other connotations and applications; generally a low GI is correlated to lower insulin response (IR) (except for proteins which cause an IR similar to carbohydrates).
                Given that Insulin is a growth factor (just like IGF in dairy) it might be implicated in some diseases, especially when rapid and excessive insulin spikes occur as a result of what we eat. So, eating low GI may have benefits beyond just weight loss.
                A second interesting property of glycaemia is that Fructose does not stimulate an IR but bypasses straight to the liver, where some of it eventually becomes Tri-Glycerides (not a bad thing if we are hungry and the cells can utilise the TG’s rather than store them as fat?). The Fructose content of, say, ice-cream, is the reason it is lower on the GI scale than Glucose.
                I am successfully applying both of these principles in my dietary regime.

                I don’t agree with you that everything useful always comes with citations …. I don’t have a laboratory handy to run tests on all of my interesting ideas (I am limited to observing the effect of my low risk ideas on my own body). Science always progresses by accommodating new hypotheses and often that involves a quantum leap and/or heretical ideas. However, peer reviewed research is nice to have when it is available.




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                1. Thanks Rada.

                  Life has taught me that I am nowhere near as clever as I think I am. Consequently, I now always try to test my ideas against the evidence and the considered assessments of people who have a good technical understanding of the issues. For example, I have found that testing ideas on my own body is fine but the short term effects aren’t always reliable guides to long term consequences.

                  But anyway fructose … you may be right. I do not know since I am not a biochemist. However, there are people with some expert knowledge in this area who think that there is evidence that fructose has effects that go well beyond that on IR alone eg .
                  “Whereas associations do not prove cause-and-effect, experimental studies in animals have shown that fructose can induce most features of the metabolic syndrome, including insulin resistance, elevated triglycerides, abdominal obesity, elevated blood pressure, inflammation, oxidative stress, endothelial dysfunction, microvascular disease, hyperuricemia, glomerular hypertension and renal injury, and fatty liver. These effects are not seen in animals pair-fed glucose or starch, which suggests that the mechanism is not mediated by excessive caloric intake (4). The consumption of large amounts of dietary fructose also can rapidly induce insulin resistance, postprandial hypertriglyceridemia, and blood pressure in humans more than starch (or glucose) does in controls (3, 5, 6). Moreover, it is a potential risk factor for fatty liver disease (7).”
                  http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/88/5/1189.full

                  I am still quite happy to eat a lot of fruit and I love ice cream but, apart from moments of weakness a couple of times a year, I now pass on the ice cream and similar processed foods.




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          1. Dr. Greger raves about Brenda Davis and her co-author, Vesanto Melina, elsewhere on this website. Both Davis and Melina have excellent reputations here in Canada as plant-based dietitians. Their book “Becoming Vegan (Comprehensive Edition)” has 79 pages of references.




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          2. Tom, I’ve read a number of your comments, thoughts etc. and find them useful and helpful. I am so confused on Nutrition that I’m ready to give up. I’ve always selected whole grains and wheat in our diet.
            I’d appreciate a comment on Dr. Perlmutter’s link today on a interview on this “Today’s interview is with Dr. John Douillard. He’s the author of a new book entitled Eat Wheat: A Scientific and Clinically-Proven Approach to Safely Bringing Wheat and Dairy Back into Your Diet. http://www.drperlmutter.com/




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            1. Thanks Ron.

              I think the basics of nutrition are essentially pretty simple. They are in essence what we have always known – eat plenty of fruits, vegetables and whole grains and minimise everything else. This is not just what our mothers and grandmothers told us, it is what the leading nutritional scientists around the globe have concluded following rigorous examination of all the evidence.

              For example, the panel of leading international nutritional scientists convened by the World Health Organization found that:
              “A healthy diet contains:
              . Fruits, vegetables, legumes (e.g. lentils, beans), nuts and whole grains (e.g. unprocessed maize, millet, oats, wheat, brown rice).
              . At least 400 g (5 portions) of fruits and vegetables a day (2)”
              http://www.who.int/elena/healthy_diet_fact_sheet_394.pdf?ua=1

              The World Cancer Research Fund expert scientific panel concluded that we should
              “Eat mostly foods of plant origin ……. Population average consumption of non-starchy1 vegetables and of fruits to be at least 600 g (21 oz) daily2 Relatively unprocessed cereals (grains) and/or pulses (legumes), and other foods that are a natural source of dietary fibre, to contribute to a population average of at least 25 g non-starch polysaccharide daily”
              http://www.wcrf.org/sites/default/files/english.pdf

              The leading US scientists who comprised the Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee reported that:
              “Vegetables and fruit are the only characteristics of the diet that were consistently identified in every conclusion statement across the health outcomes. Whole grains were identified slightly less consistently compared to vegetables and fruits, but were identified in every conclusion with moderate to strong evidence.”
              https://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015-scientific-report/02-executive-summary.asp

              Perlmutter and Doulliard are just “medical entrepeneurs” selling highly sensational books, pills and potions to an audience that either doesn’t know about the freely available reports on nutrition and health or doesn’t care. And Perlmutter for one seems to change his views according to what he thinks will best attract potential readers to his books.
              http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/06/problem-with-the-grain-brain-doctor.html

              It’s probably not entirely fair to call Doulliard a “medical entrepeneir” though since he has no actual medical qualifications. He is a chiropractor who was granted his chiropractic doctorate degree from a fairly obscure institution in southern California. He is also an ayurvedic practitioner. Neither of these approaches is exactly noted for a whole-hearted commitment to making only evidence-based recommendations regarding nutrition and health.

              Both Permutter and Doulliard referred to a number of scientific studies which they claimed supported their positions but gave no references. In essence, however, they were just promoting their respective books in that video interview.

              “Eat more vegetables, fruits and whole grains” just doesn’t sell mass market “health” books. Telling people they can eat meat, eggs, cheese and butter and become healthier does.

              In short, I would not give any credence to people selling sensational books and products related to nutrition and health. They tend to ignore inconvenient evidence (or try to dismiss it by alleging it is all manufactured some improbable, huge worldwide conspiracy) and misrepresent other evidence. They have financial conflicts of interest when it comes to their nutritional advice, fatally compromise their credibility.

              To be fair though, I note that they do advise people not to eat processed foods. That aspect of their views at least is compatible with current scientific knowledge and should be applauded.




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              1. Tom,

                Two pages, on David Perlmutter, by Levinovitz and two paragraphs from you and not a word from either of you on what he said that was wrong and why it was wrong!




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                1. Hi Rada

                  Yes, you are correct. However, ron asked me to comment on the video interview (not Perlmutter’s book or Douillard’s book).

                  In the interview, both Perlmutter and Douillard made assertions about studies and expressed opinions but provided no verifiable citations/references. Consequently, it’s not possible to do a detailed review of their 59-minute conversation. It therefore gets down to the credibility of the people making the claims. My post and Levinovitz’s critique directly addressed their credibility.

                  If I remember correctly, Perlmutter’s book is just another genuflection towards the currently fashionable myths that carbs, gluten and sugars are the root of all nutritional problems. He also presses the Paleo button in that book. I didn’t think that it was necessary to laboriously go through all the reasons why these ideas are obviously wrong (especially after sitting through 59 minutes of relentless self-promotion).

                  There is also no need to reinvent the wheel because other people have, of course, set out the reasons why Perlmutter is wrong eg
                  http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/822731
                  http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/12/this-is-your-brain-on-gluten/282550/
                  https://thehealthsciencesacademy.org/book-reviews/grain-brain/

                  There are also a fair number of videos on this site which address the various claims to be found in Perlmutter’s book eg
                  http://nutritionfacts.org/video/alzheimers-disease-grain-brain-or-meathead/




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              2. Tom,

                Re: “eat plenty of fruits, vegetables and whole grains and minimise everything else. This is just what our mothers and grandmothers told us”.

                Where is the data from the global polling that identified what ‘we’ were taught about nutrition by our mothers?

                I must be an exception to your rule; my mother was an uneducated woman and nothing was ever said about nutrition in our household except, “eat what’s on your plate or you will get a hiding”. Alternatively the punishment for not ‘eating up’ was, on occasion, alternated with the promise of dessert as a reward for ‘eating up’.

                Our family diet was driven by culture and financial constraints.
                In the culture of ‘my day’ it was three meat and veges with a roast on Sunday.
                To save money we ate a lot of offal, which we got for free from my meatworker grandfather, and dad kept a large and very good vege garden.
                Of course fish and game were plentiful in those days.

                I broke the mould but that was without any advice from the WHO, nutritionists or other conservative forces.
                The impetus for my quantum leap into the dark was my innate radicalism that drove me to seek out radical people and radical ideas.

                No need for the ‘motherhood state’ or ‘stranger danger’ warnings here!




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                1. You got me. There is no strong evidence for the mothers and grandmothers claim.

                  There is however some qualitative evidence that suggests that mothers – in the UK at least – are still aware of the importance of fruits and vegetables – 5 servings a day etc
                  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2807389/

                  Innate radicalism, like innate conservatism, has its dangers. The number of people (judging by internet sites and posts) who are willing to adopt any radically new health claim simply on the basis of a good story (and in the teeth of the evidence), for example, indicates that something like your innate radicalism must be fairly widespread.




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                  1. Tom,

                    The reason, or reasons, why people do anything are complex, and subjective, and we will end up on quicksand if we try to go there; best to stick to the facts as far as we can ascertain them.
                    I can only speak for myself in that I don’t find ideas, in and of themselves, to be dangerous whether they are either conservative or radical. They only become dangerous when allowed to grow in the dark, and if they are accepted without question, which is why I read people like Perlmutter, Peat et. al and rail against those who try to impose their ideological motivated censorship on others.

                    The august bodies, that you are fond of quoting, function to filter yesterdays science to find that which, in their opinion, is fit for the masses (plus or minus some corruption, incompetence and political bias to a varying extent).
                    I don’t find much value in their missives but Ron (the OP) and others may well be happy with it.

                    For those who like to spend their time playing the credibility game here is an article that questions the credibility of the World Health Organisation (WHO) itself.

                    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2220194/World-Health-Organisation-taking-cash-handouts-Coca-Cola-plug-black-holes-budget.html

                    [quote]

                    World Health Organisation ‘taking cash handouts from Coca-Cola to plug black holes in budget’
                    The Pan American office has accepted $50,000 from Coca-Cola, $150,000 from Nestle and $150,000 from Unilever
                    It has also been relying on the food and beverage industry for advice on how to fight obesity.

                    [unquote]




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                    1. Rada

                      The claims about “yesterdays science”.are factually incorrect as even the briefest of fact checking will show.

                      Like you, I also read people like Taubes, Colpo, Permutter etc but I fact check their claims. It is important that Devil’s Advocates exist but simply believing them without double-checking their claims is imprudent.

                      The WHO story is from the Daily Mail! Not a reliable source by any means. PAHO is not the WHO. The WHO rgoional office as such did not accept this funding. PAHO did.

                      “PAHO wears two institutional hats: it is the specialized health agency of the Inter-American System and also serves as Regional Office for the Americas of the World Health Organization (WHO), the specialized health agency of the United Nations.”
                      http://www.paho.org/hq/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=91%3Aabout-paho&lang=en

                      And as the Daily Mail article notes “Accepting industry funding goes against WHO’s worldwide policies.”

                      To my mind, his is typical of the misleading interpretation of the facts that self-styled “alternative health” advocates employ.




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                    2. Tom,

                      AFAIK the author of the article I linked to is not a health practitioner, or commentator, let alone a representative of ‘alternative health’.

                      I have noticed that you have a tendency to ‘play the man or woman’:

                      – on several occasions you have made unsubstantiated derogatory statements about people with ‘alternative’ professional qualifications i.e. anyone who is not a scientist or an MD e.g. chiropractors is one group you mention as ‘typically not relying on available evidence’ and there have been others. That is just not fair to the many non MD health professionals and the work they put into gaining their qualifications;

                      – ditto for your continual regression to disparaging others credibility.

                      IMO it doesn’t reflect well on you and doesn’t add one jot to the sum of our useful knowledge.




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                    3. rada: I could not disagree with you more. The entire purpose of this site is to provide evidence based nutrition information. People are very confused about nutrition precisely because people are setting themselves up as knowledgeable on the subject and spouting all kinds of nonsense that is misleading and often opposite of what the evidence tells us.
                      .
                      It is a useless cause to try to address all these unscrupulous characters’ points as it can take volumes of space, and in the end, people are still confused. Tom has done the courtesy of reviewing videos in the past for people and refuted individual points with actual evidence and the information went in one ear and out the other.
                      .
                      One of the ways we can help people most is educate them on what sources of information are credible and evidence based and which sources are not credible / are not based on the evidence. It adds extremely useful knowledge to the group as it allows people to start to filter out the incorrect information and absorb valid information. This will lead to people making healthier decisions. That’s a good thing.
                      .
                      Your criticism of Tom is also unfair in that while Tom often helps to educate people on the credibility of the source, Tom has also made countless posts on this site explaining to people what the evidence says and actually linking to valid studies to back up his points. Also, Tom just got finished explaining to you that there wasn’t anything of substance to reply to in the video/interview above–a video that Tom actually took the time to watch. He didn’t just give a knee-jerk answer without investigating.
                      .
                      I’ll end by repeating again: This site is about looking at evidence based nutrition information. It is legitimate and even necessary to help lay people avoid sources that are well known to give out information that is the opposite of what the evidence tells us. If you think that the interview video that Ron asked about above is valid, feel free to tell us why and back up your claims with links to the science. Choosing instead to pick on Tom is a waste of everyone’s time.




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                    4. Thea,

                      In the space of a few short posts Tom has ‘attacked the credibility’ of:

                      -Perlmutter;
                      – Douliliard;
                      – the Daily Mail;
                      – Chiropractors;
                      – Ayurvedic practitioners;
                      and people selling sensational books and products related to Nutrition and Health.

                      That’s a lot in such a short space of time.
                      IMO ‘attacking a persons credibility is a euphemism for personal abuse.

                      I do intend addressing the significant points as soon as you can assure me that I, or anybody else I mention, wont be subject to personal attacks.

                      Yes, I do give Tom credit for watching the 90 min video solely to help someone else.
                      Yes it is my intention to look at the video – perhaps not all of it.

                      I believe the (OP) Ron wants to know if grains are, on balance, healthy or not.
                      So do I.
                      Very little, if anything from what you or Tom have posted have made me any the wiser.
                      Anything Tom has done in the past may well be commendable but it is irrelevant to this thread.
                      I take your opinion with a grain of salt as you have consistently demonstrated that you are very biased in your opinions and your moderating (or quasi moderating).
                      Tom thinks that it is obvious that grains are healthy but it isn’t obvious to me.
                      You and he might be wrong.
                      You wouldn’t want the general population to suffer because you and Tom made a mistake would you?
                      If it wasn’t for your diversionary, and political post, by now I probably would have watched half the video, or replied to some of the specific points, so who is the one wasting peoples time?




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                    5. Rada

                      I wrote “advocates” not practitioners or representatives.

                      You often seem to offer ideas from people who ignore evidence they dislike and misrepresent other evidence. And the fact is that naturopaths, chiropractors and others often seem to promote unscientific views like homeopathy and do not rely on the available evidence. They do have the credibility of reserchers and scientists who base their conclusions or hypotheses on the balance of evidence.

                      If you do not like me or presumably anybody else pointing this out, do not offer such ideas for public comment. Incidentally, do you think that accusing scientific panels of corruption, incompetence and political bias (and offering no evidence to support these vague accusations) reflects well on you or adds anything useful to a discussion on nutrition.facts?

                      But, anyway, conversation over. I see no point in continuing in this vein.




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                    6. Tom,

                      I am asking you to please stop the character assassination of people like Perlmutter, Doulliard and health professional groups (Chiropractors, alternative health practitioners et. c) when you address a post to me.
                      I am offended by it and it makes me feel uncomfortable about posting my honest opinions in reply.

                      Let’s get on with a discussion of the details without the abuse.




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                    7. “please stop the character assassination ”
                      What character assassination, Rada?

                      And how would you describe your implicit suggestion that the world-leading scientists who comprised the expert panels convened by the WHO, World Cancer Research Fund, DGAC etc, are too ignorant or too stupid to understand the “new science”? Or that the WHO experts have been bought off by the food industry?

                      “”when you address a post to me”
                      You wanted comments on Perlmutter’s book. You got them. If you don’t want me to reply honestly to your questions or requests, please don’t ask them. I have zero tolerance for snake oil. It shepherds people into an early grave and for this reason I find it grossly offensive.

                      Remember the old notice
                      “Please don’t ask for credit as a refusal often offends”




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            2. [unquote}

              Ron,

              In the video you refer to Dr Douillard (Chiropractor) is interviewed by Dr Perlmutter (M.D), so while it is a promotion for Douillard’s book, “Eat Wheat”, it is not a promotion for Perlmutter’s books, products or services.
              Perlmutter only mentions his own theories twice and then only because he wants to clarify the points of difference between his theories and those of Douillard (afterall Douillard does advocate the eating of grains which is contrary to Perlmutters ideas).

              I can confirm that both points raised by Perlmutter are backed by scientific studies as he claims:

              1). gliadin found in wheat (gluten) does cause increased intestinal permeability in humans, independently of any other factors, however, it is early days and the prevalence and ramifications of this, for the general population, are not confirmed (as I understand it).

              [quote]

              Nutrients. 2015 Feb 27;7(3):1565-76. doi: 10.3390/nu7031565.
              Effect of gliadin on permeability of intestinal biopsy explants from celiac disease patients and patients with non-celiac gluten sensitivity.
              Hollon J1, Puppa EL2, Greenwald B3, Goldberg E4, Guerrerio A5, Fasano A6.
              Author information

              1Department of Pediatric Gastroenterology, Naval Medical Center Portsmouth, 620 John Paul Jones Circle, Portsmouth, VA 23708, USA. justin.hollon@med.navy.mil.
              2University of Maryland School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21201, USA. eleonard@peds.umaryland.edu.
              3Division of Gastroenterology and Hepatology, University of Maryland School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21201, USA. bgreenwa@medicine.umaryland.edu.
              4Division of Gastroenterology and Hepatology, University of Maryland School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21201, USA. egoldber@medicine.umaryland.edu.
              5Division of Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21205, USA. aguerrerio@jhmi.edu.
              6Center for Celiac Research, Massachusetts General Hospital and Division of Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition, Massachusetts General Hospital for Children, Boston, MA 02114, USA. afasano@partners.org.
              Abstract
              BACKGROUND:
              Intestinal exposure to gliadin leads to zonulin upregulation and consequent disassembly of intercellular tight junctions and increased intestinal permeability. We aimed to study response to gliadin exposure, in terms of barrier function and cytokine secretion, using intestinal biopsies obtained from four groups: celiac patients with active disease (ACD), celiac patients in remission (RCD), non-celiac patients with gluten sensitivity (GS) and non-celiac controls (NC).
              METHODS:
              Ex-vivo human duodenal biopsies were mounted in microsnapwells and luminally incubated with either gliadin or media alone. Changes in transepithelial electrical resistance were monitored over 120 min. Media was subsequently collected and cytokines quantified.
              RESULTS:
              Intestinal explants from all groups (ACD (n = 6), RCD (n = 6), GS (n = 6), and NC (n = 5)) demonstrated a greater increase in permeability when exposed to gliadin vs. media alone. The increase in permeability in the ACD group was greater than in the RCD and NC groups. There was a greater increase in permeability in the GS group compared to the RCD group. There was no difference in permeability between the ACD and GS groups, between the RCD and NC groups, or between the NC and GS groups. IL-10 was significantly greater in the media of the NC group compared to the RCD and GS groups.
              CONCLUSIONS:
              Increased intestinal permeability after gliadin exposure occurs in all individuals. Following gliadin exposure, both patients with gluten sensitivity and those with active celiac disease demonstrate a greater increase in intestinal permeability than celiacs in disease remission. A higher concentration of IL-10 was measured in the media exposed to control explants compared to celiac disease in remission or gluten sensitivity.
              PMID: 25734566

              [unquote]

              There is other good science available on gluten triggering increased intestinal permeability.

              2) There is independent scientific support for the linkage between gluten ingestion and neurological disorders et. c
              As mentioned by Perlmutter M Hadjivassiliou is the foremost authority in the field.
              Once again it is early days and it is not clear-cut whther it is limited to genetically susceptible people (if so the prevalence in the community is in single digit %’s. There is a distinction to be drawn in that neurological symptoms can exist without the gastro effects common with Caeliac Disorder.

              http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/72/5/560.full (free full text or PDF available).

              Gluten sensitivity as a neurological illness
              M Hadjivassiliou, R A Grünewald, G A B Davies-Jones

              Author Affiliations
              Department of Neurology, The Royal Hallamshire Hospital, Glossop Road, Sheffield, S10 2JF, UK

              [quote]

              Gluten sensitivity is best defined as a state of heightened immunological responsiveness in genetically susceptible people.15 This definition does not imply bowel involvement. That gluten sensitivity is regarded as principally a disease of the small bowel is a historical misconception.28 Gluten sensitivity can be primarily and at times exclusively a neurological disease.29 The absence of an enteropathy should not preclude patients from treatment with a gluten-free diet. Early diagnosis and removal of the trigger factor by the introduction of gluten-free diet is a promising therapeutic intervention. IgG antigliadin antibodies should be part of the routine investigation of all patients with neurological dysfunction of obscure aetiology, particularly patients with ataxia and peripheral neuropathy.

              [unquote]

              http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(96)90540-1/abstract

              [quote]

              Does cryptic gluten sensitivity play a part in neurological illness?
              M Hadjivassiliou, MRCP
              Press enter key for correspondence information
              , A Gibson, PhD, G.A.B Davies-Jones, MD, A.J Lobo, MD, T.J Stephenson, MD, A Milford-Ward, FRCPath
              Published: 10 February 1996

              Abstract

              Background Antigliadin antibodies are a marker of untreated coeliac disease but can also be found in individuals with normal small-bowel mucosa. Because neurological dysfunction is a known complication of coeliac disease we have investigated the frequency of antigliadin antibodies, as a measure of cryptic gluten sensitivity, and coeliac disease in neurological patients.
              Methods Using ELISA, we estimated serum IgG and IgA antigliadin antibodies in 147 neurological patients who were divided into two groups. There were 53 patients with neurological dysfunction of unknown cause despite full investigation (25 ataxia, 20 peripheral neuropathy, 5 mononeuritis multiplex, 4 myopathy, 3 motor neuropathy, 2 myelopathy). The remaining 94 patients were found to have a specific neurological diagnosis (16 stroke, 12 multiple sclerosis, 10 Parkinson’s disease, 56 other diagnoses) and formed the neurological control group. 50 healthy blood donors formed a third group.
              Findings The proportions of individuals with positive titres for antigliadin antibodies in the three groups were 30/53, 5/94, and 6/50 respectively (57, 5, and 12%). The difference in proportion between group 1 and the combined control groups was 0·49 (95% Cl 0·35-0·63). Distal duodenal biopsies in 26 out of 30 antigliadin-positive patients from group 1 revealed histological evidence of coeliac disease in nine (35%), non-specific duodenitis in ten (38%), and no lesion in seven (26%) individuals.
              Interpretation Our data suggest that gluten sensitivity is common in patients with neurological disease of unknown cause and may have aetiological significance

              [unquote]

              [quote]

              Schizophr Res. 2014 Nov;159(2-3):539-42. doi: 10.1016/j.schres.2014.09.023. Epub 2014 Oct 11.
              Gluten sensitivity and relationship to psychiatric symptoms in people with schizophrenia.
              Jackson J1, Eaton W2, Cascella N3, Fasano A4, Santora D5, Sullivan K6, Feldman S6, Raley H7, McMahon RP6, Carpenter WT Jr6, Demyanovich H6, Kelly DL8.
              Author information

              1Temple University School of Medicine, 3500 North Broad Street, Philadelphia, PA 19140, USA.
              2Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, 624 North Broadway, Baltimore, MD 21205, USA.
              3Neuropsychiatry Program Sheppard Pratt Hospital, 6501 North Charles Street, Baltimore, MD 21285, USA.
              4Massachusetts General Hospital for Children, 175 Cambridge Street, Boston, MA 02114, USA; Massachusetts General Hospital East, 16th Street, Charlestown, MA 02129, USA.
              5University of Maryland School of Medicine, 660 West Redwood Street, Baltimore, MD 21201, USA.
              6University of Maryland School of Medicine, Department of Psychiatry, Maryland Psychiatric Research Center, 55 Wade Avenue, Catonsville, MD 21228, USA.
              7National Institute on Drug Abuse, 251 Bayview Blvd., Baltimore, MD 21223, USA.
              8University of Maryland School of Medicine, Department of Psychiatry, Maryland Psychiatric Research Center, 55 Wade Avenue, Catonsville, MD 21228, USA. Electronic address: dkelly@mprc.umaryland.edu.
              Abstract
              The relationship between gluten sensitivity and schizophrenia has been of increasing interest and novel mechanisms explaining this relationship continue to be described. Our study in 100 people with schizophrenia compared to 100 matched controls replicates a higher prevalence of gluten sensitivity and higher mean antigliadin IgG antibody levels schizophrenia (2.9 ± 7.7 vs. 1.3 ± 1.3, p = 0.046, controlled for age). Additionally, we examined symptoms within the schizophrenia group and found that while positive symptoms are significantly lower in people who have elevated antigliadin antibodies (AGA; 4.11 ± 1.36 vs. 6.39 ± 2.99, p = 0.020), no robust clinical profile differentiates between positive and negative antibody groups. Thus, identifying people in schizophrenia who may benefit from a gluten-free diet remains possible by blood test only.
              Copyright © 2014. Published by Elsevier B.V.
              KEYWORDS:
              Celiac disease; Gliadin; Gluten; Gluten sensitivity; Schizophrenia
              PMID: 25311778

              [unquote]

              [quote]

              Biomed Res Int. 2013;2013:729349. doi: 10.1155/2013/729349. Epub 2013 Aug 1.
              Antibodies against food antigens in patients with autistic spectrum disorders.
              de Magistris L1, Picardi A, Siniscalco D, Riccio MP, Sapone A, Cariello R, Abbadessa S, Medici N, Lammers KM, Schiraldi C, Iardino P, Marotta R, Tolone C, Fasano A, Pascotto A, Bravaccio C.
              Author information

              1CIRANAD, Second University of Naples, via Pansini 5, Building 3, 80131 Naples, Italy. laura.demagistris@unina2.it
              Abstract
              PURPOSE:
              Immune system of some autistic patients could be abnormally triggered by gluten/casein assumption. The prevalence of antibodies to gliadin and milk proteins in autistic children with paired/impaired intestinal permeability and under dietary regimen either regular or restricted is reported.
              METHODS:
              162 ASDs and 44 healthy children were investigated for intestinal permeability, tissue-transglutaminase (tTG), anti-endomysium antibodies (EMA)-IgA, and total mucosal IgA to exclude celiac disease; HLA-DQ2/-DQ8 haplotypes; total systemic antibodies (IgA, IgG, and IgE); specific systemic antibodies: α-gliadin (AGA-IgA and IgG), deamidated-gliadin-peptide (DGP-IgA and IgG), total specific gliadin IgG (all fractions: α, β, γ, and ω), β-lactoglobulin IgG, α-lactalbumin IgG, casein IgG; and milk IgE, casein IgE, gluten IgE,-lactoglobulin IgE, and α-lactalbumin IgE.
              RESULTS:
              AGA-IgG and DPG-IgG titers resulted to be higher in ASDs compared to controls and are only partially influenced by diet regimen. Casein IgG titers resulted to be more frequently and significantly higher in ASDs than in controls. Intestinal permeability was increased in 25.6% of ASDs compared to 2.3% of healthy children. Systemic antibodies production was not influenced by paired/impaired intestinal permeability.
              CONCLUSIONS:
              Immune system of a subgroup of ASDs is triggered by gluten and casein; this could be related either to AGA, DPG, and Casein IgG elevated production or to impaired intestinal barrier function.
              PMID: 23984403

              [unquote]

              http://europepmc.org/articles/PMC3641835 (free full text or PDF available)

              Schizophr Res. Author manuscript; available in PMC 2013 May 2.

              Published in final edited form as:
              Schizophr Res. 2012 September; 140(0): 262–263.
              Published online 2012 July 7. doi: 10.1016/j.schres.2012.06.011
              PMCID: PMC3641835
              NIHMSID: NIHMS459956
              A gluten-free diet in people with schizophrenia and anti-tissue transglutaminase or anti-gliadin antibodies
              Jessica Jackson, William Eaton, Nicola Cascella, Alessio Fasano, Dale Warfel, Stephanie Feldman, Charles Richardson, Gopal Vyas, Jared Linthicum, Debby Santora, Kimberly R. Warren, William T. Carpenter, and Deanna L. Kelly




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        2. plant_this_thought,

          The Paleos have done a good job of educating people about the negatives of eating plant foods but they probably exaggerated their claims. I don’t think that the negative effects of anti-nutrients, or toxins, in plant foods are as significant as they claim. Some people believe that they are beneficial to our health in the amounts that we consume them.

          http://www.living-foods.com/articles/sproutmyths.html




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          1. rada:

            Thanks for the link. Many good points made.

            I agree that the toxic compounds in common plant foods (such as cyanide in flax seed) are of a concentration that our bodies are easily able to tolerate, and the benefits usually far outweigh the potential harm. Many of the qualities we value most in plants (such as the hotness of capsaicin in chillies) actually exist as defense mechanisms for the plant!. It is also true that “the dose makes the poison”, and some things that are beneficial to us in normally consumed quantities (such as the limonene in citrus) are toxic at higher doses.

            The media do a great job of scaring the public. Even pollutants, such as arsenic and most pesticides, are far less of a public health problem than not getting enough plant foods, yet many people cite contamination as their reason for omitting these foods. “Penny wise and pound foolish.”

            Rather than focusing on reducing anti-nutrients as the reason for soaking/sprouting grains, I should have talked about the positive benefits, i.e., the potential for additional nutrients to be made available to us when we sprout. Sprouting is the most metabolically active phase of a plant’s life cycle; all the chemistry of growth is at its maximum, in terms of both quantity and complexity. The plant is at its “most alive” at this time, whereas the intact seed is dormant and comparatively shut down and inert.

            The science supports our intuition that, in most cases, the more alive and actively growing a plant food is, the more nutritionally robust.




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                  1. Thea,

                    I don’t like the Plant Positive site.
                    I tried but I just can’t watch the videos.
                    In the first place I was put off by the fact that the narrator/owner of the site does not identify himself, or state his credentials and experience.
                    On top of that I abhor all of the name calling e.g. confusionists, cholesterol deniers, which is a form of abuse and the constant usage is indicative of an abusive personality.
                    Overall it is just the 99th remake of ‘The Meat Eaters versus the Vegetarians” epic saga.
                    I’m over it and there are better places to get my information.
                    It’s a shame because the actual content (which without all the name calling and hype boils down to less than 30% of the presentations) is probably worth watching.

                    Dr Greger is light years ahead of this guy.




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                    1. rada: It’s your loss. The content is vital for anyone who wants to educate themselves on the topic. Plant Positive goes through all the claims made by the various cholesterol denialists and fully justifies his labels. If someone is deliberately trying to confuse you and you can prove it, it is reasonable to call them a confusionist.
                      .
                      Of course, it is your right not to watch. I’m not trying to get you to watch. I’m just saying that the content on the site answers your question. I don’t know of any other place where someone has gone through and done that level of research. So if you choose not to watch, then getting your answer would be difficult as few people are willing and able to do the type of scholarly research that Plant Positive did at all, let alone be willing to put the hours and hours into sharing the information with the world. And for free no less. If you find such a site, let us know.




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                    2. Thea,

                      If the citations were at the bottom of the transcription I would look past the personality and analyse the arguments but as they are not I can do it more quickly elsewhere.
                      I do like to have it all in one place and if the author is antagonistic to the case that is a good thing as they leave no stone unturned to prove the opposition wrong, but Plant Positive just isn’t my cup of tea.
                      All of the interest in our dietary inheritance is irrelevant.
                      Our chimp ancestors were omnivores who evolved with cognitive abilities that the other animals don’t have.
                      We are entitled to use our brains to analyse the world around us, and reflect on our actions, so we are entitled to make the choice to be Vegetarians. Thereafter all we need to do is focus on how to do that well and leave the rest to their own devices.

                      I do all my own research, although I reference anyone and everyone to get a leg up.
                      I am going to go into the lipid/saturated fat/cholesterol question in detail … it’s next on my list.
                      I believe it is the fundamental issue we have to answer.
                      That isn’t a novel idea and I don’t need to rely on ‘pop’ presenters to make the case. There is a mountain of research, in this area, and also a mountain of commentary from the medical establishment.

                      At the moment fate has determined that I should become a quasi expert on Leaky Gut/microbiome.




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        3. I’m mostly interested in the sprouting thing since it would allow me to use freshly ground whole grain without a mill. I could sprout, then grind in my mini-food processor (in a few batches). I’d like to get a stand mixer with some fancy attachments like a mill, or a juicer with a mill, but both are rather expensive and take up space. I’d probably use a good quality white flour along with the sprouted mush and experiment with the ratios.




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        4. I do not eat meat my diet is fruits, vegetables, grains, beans, lentils, nuts, tempeh, Tofu and I eat fish and eggs . I drink my Vege-Greens juice every morning and I drink my 2 liters of water a day. Last week I had a blood test done and my Potassium is high 5.4. Now I need to cut down on High Potassium food that includes everything that I eat that is grains, beans etc.. Now I need to go on a Low Potassium diet that leaves me with no Fiber in my diet which it does not help my gut I’m now constipated…what can I do it’s a no win situation!!




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          1. first of all, cut out ALL the fish, eggs and nuts which will automatically make you eat more fresh fruits, vegetables, grains and beans. i’ve got no desire to find out what tofu or tempeh is but that’s a big red flag in my book as we eat as basically as possible. right now i’m eating a HUGE bowl of oatmeal, blueberries, raisins and bananas and that’s probably my dinner followed by a green smoothie before bed.

            the other thing you NEED to do is 20 minutes of vigorous exercise per day. instead of getting technical with target heart rates and such basically what you need to do is get up to a “sweat” for 150 minutes per week divided any way you want which is about 20 mins per day. don’t forget, more isn’t going to hurt you.

            ./




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          2. I would have your potassium level re-checked before making drastic changes to your diet. It is common for potassium levels to be falsely elevated, usually due to blood cells breaking open during handling of the blood sample, which causes release of potassium into the serum. It’s common practice to re-check a high potassium level before pursuing further work-up or treatment of a high value because often it’s normal on repeat.




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            1. ty Guest for your suggestions to Meshow.. I will keep them in mind when my potassium results come back this week. I was also going to suggest to Meshow that the first thing to consider cutting out is the Veg-Greens juice and other potassium containing suppl
              ements and try just eating eating whole foods. Spinach, beet greens and other greens are some of the highest concentrated sources of potassium. more info at http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=90




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                1. Thank you rada! And thank you also for sharing some of your story and ‘food history’ in another post on this thread. I find it really interesting to hear how people meet health challenges in daily life, particularly in conscious choices in nutrition and luckily, this forum seems to attract people who are generously willing to share their knowledge.
                  All the best in health to you.




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            2. On the mark…… and please recheck soon as elevated potassium can be a serious issue. But as the guest indicated, the test can be misleading due to phlebotomy and handling errors.

              Dr. Alan Kadish Moderator for Dr. Greger




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          3. Hello! Looks like you’ve received a number of responses already. I just wanted to add one more thing. There are also a number of medical causes for high potassium levels – high potassium is not always related to diet alone. It would be best to follow-up with your doctor closely to determine what’s really causing the high lab value. Also a good idea to ditch any supplements that contain potassium in the meantime as well. Best of luck!




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            1. Thank you so much for the good information. I will certainly go back for another blood test. Regarding Progressive VegeGreens product the potassium is not part of their standard testing for this product and also not the PhytoBerry product. Progressive Nutritionals uses all natural ingredients. All natural ingredients are not standardized to contain specified amounts of micronutrients such as potassium. Because of this the amount of potassium present in the product will vary from batch to batch just as the vitamin C content of one orange will vary from another and they do not have the measurement that I need. I’ve stopped taking this product because I think that’s the reason my Potassium went up. Thank you again for responding.




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      1. Other thoughts:

        It may be the case, that the higher heat of baking is more destructive to the plant chemistry than boiling or pressure cooking.

        A particle of freshly ground flour is still enormous compared to a bacterium, but grinding probably increases the surface area accessible to the bugs somewhat, and the seed coat probably slows down penetration, which may be a good thing.




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        1. The other factor to consider is that the increase in surface area increases exposure to digestive enzymes and degradation by HCL which would increase absorption of nutrients in the small intestine rendering it less useful to bacteria once it has reached the colon.




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        2. That is a great video! I have seen Brenda on podcasts and she rocks. It makes sense that sprouted intact grains would last longer through your digestive system and be food for the gut microbiome. The diversity Dr. Greger mentioned also makes sense in terms of it.




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        3. Hi plant _this_thought,

          The medical establishment is almost entirely overlooking the role that the Gut Micro-Biome (GM) plays in our health, while many in the medical anti-establishment, whilst embracing GM theory, are understating the role of our gut fungi. While it is postulated that some of our commensal bacteria have beneficial effects no such thory has been put forward for the fungi.
          When the fibre count is down, the bacterial count is down and when the bacterial count is down the fungal count is up == fungal mycotoxins are up!
          What concerns me about grains, and possibly legumes, is that they are dead foods and fungii love dead foods, and, if they are fiber-less and ground to a fine powder the problem is exacerbated.
          On balance, IMO, it is best to eat whole grains in moderation, and sprouting them first is much better, and processed grains are in my red or orange food zone (I’ll probably enjoy some Christmas pudding with the family).
          I believe that raw vegetable fibres are the premium source of fibre for the gut, especially the high FODMAP foods (leeks, onions, garlic et.c). The additional benefit from this is that the allium family (Onions et. c) inhibit fungal growth.




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          1. If grains and beans are dead, as you suggest, then why do they sprout? I will answer my own question: They’re not dead. They store phosphorus for a plant’s future growth (in the form of phytic acid), and when you sprout them, they start releasing that energy to support new life.




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            1. Hi Harriet Sugar Miller,

              The majority of grains consumed are cooked.
              They are dead after they have been boiled.
              I raise this in the context of fungal overgrowth …… the carbs are altered by cooking and possibly some micro-elements, that are fungal suppressants, are lost.
              An additional point, that I didn’t make in my previous posts, is that all starches are not the same; they tend to form particles of differing size which causes them to behave differently in our intestines.
              I also think it is likely that some of the starch particles in our food aren’t thoroughly cooked and pass through the small intestine (if that occurs it might exacerbate fungal growth in the large intestine).
              Another major factor, IMO, is the quantity of starch in the grains, rather than the quality.
              Too much of a good thing, all at once, might be just what the doctor ordered for our gut fungi.




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            2. Indeed. They are very much alive. How can something be dead yet when you give it h20 and wait for 24/48 hours it magically “comes alive”. It begs the question was it ever dead in the first place.

              Dormant would be a more appropriate word. I remember reading a study about a person who some seeds and thought it was a worm when they saw it in their toilet bowl.

              If you drink enough water and have a 24/48 digestion time you may not have to sprout anything because it could sprout inside you.

              Plants are very interesting




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              1. Hi Andrew Kosta,

                Grains/legumes are dead after they are ground, boiled or baked, which is how most people eat them.
                They are also a dry food that require added water, when cooking them, whereas fruit and veges are wet foods.
                I am speculating that the water structure in live plants may be different to that in cooked food – that might have relevance to our health (there has been some interesting work done on structured water and health).




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                1. Not if you sit the grains/legumes in water for 48 hours. It would be interesting to see a study of raw rice to cooked rice comparison but if I had to eat it raw, I would rather be a fruitarian/vegan. Speaking of which, I recommend beginners that find being a vegan hard work to become one but as always, look it up before taking my word for it ( may have to supplement rice/veggies for protein).

                  Some people such as Ashton Kutcher
                  was hospitalized and said that his pancreas levels went “all out of
                  whack” after following a fruitarian diet in preparation for his role
                  playing Apple Inc. CEO and onetime fruitarian Steve Jobs, in the film Jobs. Jobs died of pancreatic cancer.[34]
                  I’d love for someone to shed some light as to how fruits can throw your pancreas levels “all out of wack. I wonder if Steve adopted a spinach diet after knowing about pancreatic cancer… ah well, im off on a tangent.




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                  1. Andrew,

                    If you soak grains in water you are preparing to sprout them.
                    You can’t leave them to soak too long.
                    Each grain, seed , nut has a recommended time to soak them before draining and rinsing continually (they have to be drained and repeatedly rinsed to avoid them going off).




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                    1. Are the additional antioxidants (if any) worth eating them raw verses cooked? If it’s negligible then I’ll stick to eating cooked beans.




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                    2. i don’t really know anything about sprouted beans but i’m pretty sure you sprout them first and then cook them. i couldn’t imagine eating an uncooked bean and don’t even know if we can digest them.




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                  1. Andrew,

                    Re: “do you know of any studies that say that grains/legumes are dead after being boiled or cooked?”

                    No, but I haven’t tried to find one.
                    It’s unlikely ‘science’ would interest itself in that subject.

                    Scientists are objective, conduct experiments, make observations and then propose testable hypotheses based on their observations.
                    I’m not a scientist; in fact I’m inverse to them (although I do like and reference science).
                    I’m an intuitive and hence a subjective analyst.
                    I start with an hypothesis and then wait for invents to unfold that confirm it. Once I have several confirmations then I accept my hypothesis as probable.
                    Science also is not absolute in its conclusions and all scientific axioms are only temporary (although many of them have stood the test of time).

                    In this case I am interested in Vitalism in plants and Leukocytosis in mankind. Science has thoroughly debunked both of them but I’m still interested anyway.
                    To test if a grain is alive or dead we would have to define the terms and have some way to measure that (I’m thinking about something like the electro-magnetic energy of a living plant).

                    However, you can just consider my post as a conversation piece and you are free to disagree, or object, as I can’t prove anything.

                    I like AZ’s point though ;”try to grow a boiled piece of wheat or a lentil”.

                    For me, in pragmatic terms, it comes down to whether or not I want to eat my food raw or cooked. IMO there are some foods best eaten cooked e.g. grains and some best eaten raw.
                    I tend to eat a higher % of raw food than most people but at this time I don’t aim for 100% raw.




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                  2. My posts are full of science (objective analysis) and insight (subjective analysis).
                    I am flying on two wings (if we fly on one wing we just go around in circles).
                    I am comforta ble in both realms.
                    Some people won’t like the flavour of the insights, which is as it should be ……. for them my speculative ideas should just be taken with a grain of salt.
                    Others will find them food for thought.




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          2. rada,

            Fruits and vegetables are a better fiber “bang for your buck”, have a much higher nutrient density, and seem to have fewer (if any) downsides. Dr. Greger recommends multiple servings of grain per day, which for me would be just too many calories.




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          3. I think you might be on to something. By the way, I am wondering if you are vegan? 100%?
            If so, what is the majority of your food intake? Fruit? Nuts, seeds?
            I also wonder what affect high amounts of plant -based fats might have on the fungus and bacteria,
            for the worse.

            Thank you for any ideas or thoughts, and for sharing what you eat.




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            1. Hi Roxy,

              It’s a long story.

              I am a Vegan by temperament, and share the concerns that Vegans have, but I am not currently on a vegetarian diet (I was vegetarian for 20 – 30 years).
              I was brought up on the standard western diet but turned vegetarian in my teens.
              My wife and I raised 3 vegetarian children.
              Initially I was, what I call an evangelical vegetarian, as most of us are and very committed to it.
              It was all part of the counter cultural movement of the day (think Woodstock!) e.g. for 2-3 years I lived in a vegetarian spiritual commune where the staple diet was wheat porridge (think mud domes, goats, vege garden, wind generated power).
              In my mid 30’s I drifted away from the diet and the philosophy (think work, kids and wife).
              The diet I was on then is very similar to what is now known as WFPD.

              I have never been a smoker, drinker or a drugs person nor someone who runs to the doctor for medication.
              The only health issue I have, or have had, is arthritis, which was diagnosed in my mid 30’s around the time I was transitioning off vegetarianism (I am now 64 yrs old). My doctor was pessimistic about the future progression and intimated that eventually I would need hip replacement et. c
              I didn’t accept that readily and renewed my interest in diet and health foods.
              After much trial and error I found none of the alternative cures helped but I did get some remission from diet (unfortunately I couldn’t pin that down to anything specific).
              Second time around I am doing a much better job with the health food approach as, thanks to the net, more info is available, and also I am much more competent than I was in my younger years.
              I don’t have an absolute answer to the question, “what is the mother of all diets”.
              I am dynamic and flexible.
              Whatever works.
              I am following the breadcrumbs and they are leading towards eating a high % of food as raw.
              I am interested in the ‘digestive Leukocytosis’ theory, vitalism in food and the enzyme theory but they have all been thoroughly debunked by science.
              I think it is likely that their are energetic factors in food, and also compounds, that science is yet to discover.
              I think it is possible that part of our immune response involves the body ‘recognising’ non-vital food as NOT-SELF.

              I am also a SPIRITUAL MAN and have a teacher (he is European and also a qualified doctor M.D although he doesn’t practise. He didn’t like vegetarianism from a health perspective).
              I was initiated around 1998.
              It was a spontaneous process (no ritual or laying on of hands et. c in fact nothing was said, not even by my teacher. I was in England, at my teachers ashram, at the time. It coincided with a solar eclipse over England.
              As a result of my ongoing spiritual development I later found out I was an intuitive (you will see the relevance of that later).

              To answer your specific questions.

              I was diagnosed with mild Leaky Gut and mild gut Dysbiosis approx. 5 months ago (Lactulose/Mannitol and stool analysis tested). The dysbiosis was mild overgrowth of Candida (not albicans species).
              My doctor (a progressive M.D) put me on a simple protocol (no dairy, no processed sugars and no gluten plus daily supplements).
              After 10 weeks I returned to my Dr for another test and my gut is healing.
              So, for the interim I am on a form of elimination diet which does not necessarily indicate what I eat on a long term basis (it is a hybrid diet that is partially based on the AIP diet == the Paleo version of an elimination diet.
              It involves quite a bit of meat eating and low grains (mainly rice or the pseudo grains only).
              Some people in this forum have speculated on the causes of, and protocols for, Leaky Gut but they are mostly way off the mark.

              Just before I was diagnosed I was in the process of transitioning back to vegetarianism but within a week or two I experienced a marked downturn in my health.
              After mulling over this for a week my intuition identified Leaky Gut as the cause so you see the intuition is a very reliable informer (I actually searched for a local progressive Dr and went to him and asked him to give me a test for Leaky Gut).

              To start the protocol my Dr prescribed a 4 week course of the anti-fungal Nystatin.
              I ran to the pharmacist to get it because I had some annoying symptoms that I wanted to get rid of it (mild nausea after eating, mild stomach pain and hot flushes). After starting the Nystatin I had the classic fungal die off effects for two days then those symptoms disappeared.
              Just after the end of the period when I finished the Nystatin some similar symptoms started to reappear.
              Based on my intuition, and careful observation of my body/symptoms, I started tweaking my diet to suppress the symptoms. I assume it is the Candida and it returns very quickly (as low as 24 hrs or less).

              Note that science does not recognise the intuition except perhaps that it is occasionally mentioned in Psychology but really they don’t understand it at all.
              I have come to the provisional conclusion that I am at war with ‘Candida’ and it is probably a permanent feature of my life.
              I don’t know if others are in the same boat but I suspect they are.
              I am felling better and the arthritic symptoms are subsiding.
              Note that no one believes that a joint damaged by arthritis can heal, not even the alternative medical professionals, so if I don’t get a 100% cure I am not going to complain. I’ll take whatever I can get.

              In the first phase of the protocol my typical daily diet was:

              coffee (black or soy milk/rice milk plus a little honey), water, coconut water
              breakfast Quinoa porridge, whole rice flake porridge or fresh fruit salad with cashew cream and coconut oil
              snacks were rice crackers with avocado or sesame butter/nut butters
              fruit
              salad every day
              lunch – salad plus egg, fish or meat
              bone broth and natto vege soup
              tea – meat egg fish and cooked veges
              occasional dry roast cashews
              sea salt with kelp added for the iodine
              daily underarm spray of magnesium oil for the Magnesium plus it supresses body odour causing bacteria
              probiotics and Intestamine (prescribed by the doc)
              multivitamin and mineral (always taken but I increased them and added calcium supplement because of the meat and the constrained diet)
              occasional Quinoa based bread roll for fun
              dried fruit for fun (sulphur free only)
              very low dairy
              zero gluten
              very low sugar (you cant eliminate it 100% unless you go to zero processed foods).

              After I finished the Nystatin course and the Candida came roaring back I made some adjustments (I didn’t tell my doc – he isn’t interested in my intuitive capacity)

              – cut out the coffee (that was the hardest one) – reason == allergies are one of the suspected causes of LG
              – cut out all fibreless sugars (no honey or coconut water)
              – cut out all grains (not even rice or quinoa) – breakfast is now always fresh fruit + cashew creak + coconut oil
              – increased salads to two a day (one is cabbage with only olive oil dressing
              – added more variety of raw vege to salads e.g. I grate some zucchini into the coleslaw for colour and nutritional diversity
              – changed snacks to max half cup mixed raw nuts plus an apple (I find nuts very rich and also the fiber in some of them can cause constipation – they digest better with some apple)
              – kept the dry fruit in moderation – its a fun food plus sometimes I need some carbs/energy
              – eat something from the allium family with every salad
              – cut out nut butters (lectin in nuts is an issue and I am already eating enough nuts)
              – went 100% organic/processed food free.

              Sometimes I weaken and eat a little bit from my red food zone e.g. half a Quinoa read role with sesame butter (it didn’t go well).

              I found myself losing too much weight on the anti-Candida protocol so I increased the coconut oil and added the nuts to add some carbs. I also increased the amount of raw corn and avocado I was eating to get more energy/carbs (corn is not Paleo approved but they might be wrong on that one (refer to my earlier comments on wet food == raw sweet corn versus dry food == say, polenta or corn meal)

              Note that nuts are not recommended by the Paleos so I am cautious but do eat them in limited amounts.
              I have just started re-introducing carbs.
              I tried a cup (300ml) of cooked brown rice – eaten with a salad and shallots (1 shallot cut fine) and I didn’t have any problems.
              I was recently influenced a little by Dr Gundrys work (The Diet Evolution) – he allows a small amount of grains.
              I am not sure about the dried fruit but I have to have some fun and also need some snack foods that I can carry for emergencies. I only eat moderate amounts.

              Note that I chose to eat meat because it is the least allergenic of all the proteins (once you have a LG you have to try to minimise the damage to the internal organs and the brain).
              I don’t see why a brown rice and fruit/vege diet wouldn’t work as a Vegetarian LG protocol but grains are contra-indicated for Candida plus no Dr, with experience in the field, has published a Vege protocol (I don’t want to experiment on my time – I respect my Dr so I basically stuck with his protocol – the progressive doctors are my heroes)..
              Several have published tried and tested protocols that exclude grains or at lest gluten (barley, rye, spelt, wheat, oats).
              The available science for Gluten/Leaky Gut is extensive.

              I haven’t used any processed oils for years (Dr Ray Peat put me off processed oils).
              I only re-introduced a little olive oil for the taste so I could enjoy the coleslaw.
              I think oils are probably fungal neutral but I’m not sure.
              Coconut oil is claimed to be an anti-fungal. My body responses tell me it is but I don’t think there is any scientific evidence to back it up.
              As you can see my current protocol is high fat and low carb.

              Sorry but I don’t have all the answers.
              I am flexible and change as required.
              If you make a mistake fix it immediately – don’t let pride come in the way.
              I am working it out as I go along (I have quite a long list of things to fine tune)
              I don’t kow what my diet will be after I come off the LG protocol.
              Veganism is a noble philosophy but it is not a new idea – it is very hard to implement (think Jainism).
              If you are interested in raw foods/Veganism please don’t become a fanatic or obsessed with it … food is only one part of life.
              Vegetarianism is very difficult to implement (technically and time wise).
              I think it’s likely that a lot of vegetarians are not eating as healthily as they think they are.

              P.S

              That is the short version. I had to leave out a lot of context and detail.
              I would be happy to answer any further questions you have.




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  1. I would be interested in the the nature of the whole wheat rolls that were used in this study. Very often the difference in white rolls and whole wheat is minimal at best. They also tend to have added oils and frequently milk or whey. A real multi grain bread with higher fiber would likely do much better.

    I’m looking for a good whole grain bread recipe if anyone can share one.




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    1. I used to bake bread, but gave it up a while ago. I’ve been thinking about taking it up again and trying sprouted grains. Unfortunately, I don’t remember the recipe(s), just that I had to add extra gluten to 100% whole grain dough (and that my current oven sucks). Peter Reinhart’s books are great, you might find them at your local library.




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      1. Just remembered something – I’ve noticed more than one of the centenarians (7th Day Adventists) I’ve seen interviewed make their own whole grain bread using freshly ground flour. Maybe there’s something to freshly ground flour or homemade whole grain bread, or maybe it’s the fact that they have a task to do every morning that gets them out of bed and keeps them active.




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        1. lemonhead: One of my pet theories (nothing to back up that it makes a significant difference) is that home-made freshly ground flour a) will not have had as much time to lose as much nutrients and b) is not likely to be ground up quite as finely as what comes out of professional mills — and for these reasons is healthier. Even if true, I don’t know if it is healthier enough to make any kind of significant difference in health outcomes. It’s just a pet theory of mine. But I like it…




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          1. I have seen data about the loss of nutrients, and it is big. i think this is why a lot of the blue zones type places mill their flour for their bread only on that day. The bread that Brenda showed was denser and had intact grains in it, like the Weston Price islands north of Scotland that were among the healthiest in the world. Many artisanal bakeries make bread with nuts, dates, unusual fruit like olives, paw paw and persimmon, and herbs like oregano, garlic pieces, rosemary and cinnamon. I have made it like that in the past, and I think I will make those and sourdough when I retire and have more time.
            John S




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          2. The whole ‘structure of foods’ thing is very interesting. It seems from my own experience that whizzing up blueberries and greens in the blender seems to increase the availability of some active substances. On the other hand there’s a lot of evidence that processing of certain foods decreases their value. There’s even this report I saw the other day on SciShow about artemisin from GMO tobacco plants :

            https://youtu.be/3n21mMQVGWQ?t=3m45s

            I think in some cases processing is one of those ‘it depends’ things and I hedge my bets by varying what I eat.




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            1. PS – the strategy of putting artemisin in a food such as lettuce seems like a good way to develop artemisin resistance (which is already developing in some areas) since people might not want to (or be able to) eat their lettuce every day in a quantity adjusted appropriately for body size. Plus artemisin seems to work better in combination with other drugs. But what do I know, I have a lemon for a head…




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            2. Hi lemonhead,

              Why a lemon, why not an orange?

              There’s processing and then there is processing.

              When I say I avoid ‘processed’ foods I mean I avoid foods with additives in them i.e. the numbers (I don’t want to eat the numbers). To be more accurate we should really call that ‘industrialised food’. GMO foods is just the latest in a line of industrialised foods.
              I don’t know how many food technologists there are in the world, or how the numbers of them change with time, but I think they are a relatively new phenomenon and that there are quite a few working on our foods, day and night.
              There are other forms of processing though; de-hulling seeds or grinding grains is a form of processing, as is baking bread.
              There is no clear cut off point as to what is good processing and what is bad.
              Naively we think that; if we do it ourselves in our kitchen it’s good but if someone else does it somewhere else then it might be bad and if someone else does it, using a lot of ‘technology’, it’s very bad however, that isn’t necessarily the case.
              Still, although it might be irrational I don’t trust corporations to make my food for me so I ain’t buying any industrialised foods.

              The only nutritional theory I have come across regarding ‘processing’ is Digestive Leukocytosis, originally discovered by Dr Paul Kouchakoff (a.k.a Kautchakoff). There doesn’t seem to be much interest in the topic from the current crop of scientists.
              http://conscious-cook.com/dr-paul-kouchakoff-the-influence-of-food-cooking-on-the-blood-formula-of-man/

              Here is an article that gives Leukocytosis a good old debunking.
              http://www.beyondveg.com/tu-j-l/raw-cooked/raw-cooked-1i.shtml




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              1. ‘Cuz a lemon is what we call somethin’ that don’t work right (at least here in the southern USA).

                Thanks for the information on the digestive leukocytosis theory; I had not heard of it.

                I’d have doubts about any overarching theory on processing and nutrient availability or general healthfulness since I feel the health effects of processing – as far as techniques such as boiling, grinding, drying, sprouting, fermenting, etc., go – would depend on the specific foods and nutrients in question. On the other hand, techniques such as deep frying, I think, can be readily put in the ‘net negative’ pile.




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    2. Most whole wheat rolls are about 60% whole wheat, the rest refined.. they need to keep it soft and fluffy for that selling feature. Unfortunately multigrain buns are worse, with the majority of grain being refined.

      I’ve been attempting a 100% whole grain, no oil or sugar bread. I add ground flax and molasses, with very little salt. The salt makes the rising and over proofing a major concern. Very hard to find a good recipe. Also using a bread machine is limiting, and I don’t have the tools right now to mix and bake by hand




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      1. Good point – if the studies did not use intact whole grains, then that alone could be the reason no benefit was found. Also I’m wondering if the whole wheat rolls or whatever else was used had emulsifiers in them. Some research on mice has shown that emulsfiers negatively impact gut bacteria.




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      2. Nick: My understanding is that the sugar (or molasses or honey) is only there as food for the yeast (which, of course, makes the bread rise). I wonder if the sugar content could be titrated to an amount that will be completely consumed by the yeast.




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        1. Nick, I buy a culture (culturesforhealth.com) for making soy yogurt and I don’t have to add sugar. However, they say on the packet that you can’t use yogurt from the first batch to make the next, and so on. It sounds like maybe you’re using cultures from dairy yogurt. Is that true? If so, how much sugar do you use to feed the bacteria for, say a quart of soy milk?




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          1. Many commercial soy milks already contain sugar (or “cane juice” as it is sometimes disguised), e.g., Silk, or the stuff I buy from Costco, because it is so cheap (also organic/ non-GMO). So I don’t need to add sugar when making yogurt from these. But when I make my own soy milk, or if I buy a brand that truly contains only soybeans and water (e.g., Westbrae), I have to add 1 Tbs sugar per liter with a pinch of salt.

            The culturesforhealth starter contains maltodextrin, a sugar. And this is probably why you can’t use the previous batch as starter. I’ll bet that if you added a little sugar you could. I buy my natto starter from culturesforhealth.

            For a culture, I initially use the contents of a single capsule of a good quality 10-strain probiotic. It’s delicious, and I get a huge number of batches from a single 90 capsule bottle–much cheaper than buying a starter (compared to culturesforhealth = $10 for 4 packets). The probiotic contains all the strains listed on the culturesforhealth packet, plus several more. After the first batch, I use a half cup of the previous batch as starter for 5-10 batches, before using another capsule, which I do because I suspect that the various bacterial strains compete, and if I didn’t start over occasionally, I’d end up with a monoculture of just the most dominant strain.




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            1. Wow! Thanks for the great information! I need to make more soy yogurt so I’ll use the cultures I have in the pantry until they’re gone (but I’ll try your suggestion about adding a bit of sugar to see if I can make a new batch using yogurt), then, when I’ve used up the cultures, I’ll try the probiotic capsules.

              A few years ago, when I was still eating diary, I had access to fresh milk from a woman who had a few cows she raised on pasture. I didn’t drink milk, but did start making cheeses a bit. I still have the culture I used for camembert in my freezer. I’ve wondered about using that to try and make soy yogurt. If I do I’ll try your trick with the sugar, since I use Westbrae unsweetened soy milk. I haven’t tried Costco’s because of the sugar.




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            2. Hello, have you considered or tried the mesophilic yogurt cultures from culturesforhealth.com?

              Unlike the direct set vegan yogurt culture, which can only be used for making a few batches before having to open another envelope of dried culture, the mesophilic ones are “perpetual.” They are also counter top cultures, not requiring that the “milk” be incubated at 108 degrees during the time that the culture is propagating.

              These meosphilic or heirloom cultures come from the Scandinavian countries. I have tried two so far. They are easy to make, and come out much thinner, more like kefir, than traditional yogurt. A downside is that the company indicates they must be reconstituted the first time using regular dairy milk, and only after that can they propagate in a non-dairy plant-based milk. (I use Westbrae original unsweetened soy milk, too.)

              For this, I bought just a one cup container of dairy milk to activate the starter. Thereafter, one only needs a tablespoon of yogurt per cup of milk to culture the next batch. By making only one cup of plant-milk yogurt at first, that one tablespoon of dairy finally gets minimized to nearly nothing over time. I’ve been using my mesophilic-started yogurts for well over a year with no failures or need to use the spare packet of freeze-dried culture. Not sure if they are still providing the extra packet, as now the company is combining several strains of cultures into one purchase instead of making them individually available.

              Thanks for the idea to try using a probiotic capsule. I will try that next! I have some in the fridge. Love to experiment.




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        2. I am not overly concerned with the sugar, but if I can I’ll put in the healthier molasses over refined sugar. The oil in most commercial breads is troubling, it just creates texture. The amount of salt in bread is also a concern, and I think the salt is the most difficult thing to remedy, as it mediates the yeast.




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          1. Hi Nick Presidente,

            Molasses contains more nutrients (minerals) than other forms of Sucrose but it is also extracted at much higher temperatures so it isn’t necessarily healthier as the heat degrades some substances.




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        3. Good morning PTT. As to your point about added sugar or honey in bread being food for yeast. You are only half right. Yes sugar is essential for the yeast but but this can also be derived from alpha and beta amylase which will to some variable degree be a normal part of the grains used. If the grains or even some of them are sprouted. They will likely have a good deal more available amylase. The amylase may be essential to break down the starches to usable sugars for the yeast.
          Allowing a yeasted dough to ferment too long may cause “burn out” or almost complete utilization of the available sugars if adequate amylase is not available. This happens more readily in lean doughs which have little or no sugar added. The result is a bread with little crust color and very little rise because the yeast are out of food. This rarely happens but on rare occasions can be an issue.
          In my bakery, I always added “diastatic (bakers’ term for active amylase in malt) malted barley flour” to any yeast dough to prevent this burnout.
          So the added sugar is primarily though not necessarily for flavor. Unfortunately most bakers do not understand the process well enough to be aware of just why they are adding sugar.

          In my case, I like the lean breads so any added sugar will usually, as you suggested, be for the yeast rather than the people. Personally I do not sweat that factor too much. The sugar in most yeasted breads are just not that important as a macro nutrient for people though some breads like challah can be pretty sweet.




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    3. Rye Bread

      1 cup whole grain spelt flour
      1 1/4 cups whole wheat flour
      1 1/4 cup whole grain rye flour
      1/4 cup 7-10 grain cereal
      1 tbsp ground flaxseed meal
      2 1/4 tsp yeast
      2 tsp salt (or whatever you like)
      1 tbsp molasses
      6 tbsp gluten
      1 2/3 – 1 3/4 cups water

      I use a bread maker. Knead for 15 minutes then let sit for 20 (turn the machine off and restart it). Then follow the machine cycle for whole wheat bread.

      You can substitute any other whole grain flour for the rye and it will be excellent, but possibly not as high a loaf. Bob’s Red Mill has a big selection of whole grain flours you can try. No preservatives so it’s only good for a day or so but it freezes perfectly.I have been baking these whole grain breads for over a decade and will not willingly eat any other except whole grain Wasa bread. Once you start eating these fabulous whole grain breads you begin to believe that people can indeed live on bread and water.

      The refined ingredient is the gluten. You can reduce the amount of gluten but it’s going to get a lot flatter. (This is one of the very few refined products that I eat, so I’m okay with it for the time being.)




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      1. Blair Rollin: Thanks for taking the time to share a tried and true recipe with us! I’m not usually one for making bread, but you have me tempted with this recipe.




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        1. I assure you, I’m very much in the camp of “whole grains are better than whole grain flours”. (I guess bread is just another hangover I have from my previous SAD diet.) But I only eat one slice of bread a day usually. The stuff is very handy for making a calorie rich meal (sandwich) that you can eat while you’re driving. And it’s good for sopping up the pot liquor from my red beans and collards.




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        2. No oil in this recipe. Is oil included in standard bread recipes just as a pan lubricant? Is it not required if one uses a non-stick pan?




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          1. plant_this_thought: I don’t make enough bread to answer your question about what is standard. I can guess that non-stick pans would be one way to avoid oil. Another way is to just shape the bread in big round pillow and bake it in an oven instead of a bread machine. When you bake it in an oven, you can put it on a silicon mat or parchment paper and I imagine that no oil would be needed in that case either. (though I don’t know)
            .
            Stepping back a second. My philosophy: While I typically avoid oils in the food I cook, I’m not opposed to occasionally greasing a pan for a special recipe. I think that is a reasonable way to use oils in one’s life if I don’t have heart disease or diabetes. That’s just my approach which I’m sharing in case you would find it helpful.




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          2. No, oil is not needed in bread. The only reason they put it in is for taste and texture as far as I know. Although it might also increase shelf life. A little sugar is necessary though to feed the yeast. It won’t rise without some sugar. Not needed for a flat bread though.




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            1. I’ve been using a recipe similar to yours to make a whole-grain bread using sour dough starter, no oil, added gluten, yeast, or sugar. I bake it as you described in a flattened round ball shape on a pizza stone sprinkled with rough corn meal. I’ve also had success baking it in a Hartstone pottery loaf pan. True, the bread does not rise as high but it is substantial and very tasty. I vary the grains and experiment with adding teff, amaranth or other interesting grains as a portion of the dough.




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              1. I’m sure it’s very good. In my recipe can’t see how it would rise at all without any yeast and sugar as yeast is the only leavening agent. I guess using sourdough there is some kind of fermentation process that produces CO2 for leavening. I don’t know how that works. For me, the challenge of bread making was to get the bread to rise to the size that can be useful to make a sandwich. At least, one that will hold a reasonably high amount of calories in the form of WFPB in between the two slices.




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      2. Spelt is an old fashion wheat flower that hasn’t been messed with like the regular bread wheat. Its own gluton content is much lower because of not messing with it. Your bread will be lighter using the gluton flower with it. It is the gluton stretching that helps the bread to rise.




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        1. Interesting that you say that. If you make spelt bread using my recipe as I sometimes do, (just replacing the rye with more spent flour,) it rises much higher. I haven’t done it but I would guess that if you used all spelt flour in the recipe it would rise very well with much less gluten. Spelt seems to be a very soft flour. Also has an exquisite flavor. Pretty expensive though.




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          1. Rye is listed as the three grains that contain gluten (which helps the bread to rise). The question is, then why does your bread rise better without it. It is my understanding that rye might be more dense. You look at the breads made with rye, they are dense and heavy. Just a thought. Check out Google for health benefits. Seems like there are several good ones. You have stimulated my interested maybe to incorporate more into our diet.




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            1. Hi Ruth. Gluten is actually a protein matrix with two constituent proteins, gliadin and glutenin. The protein in rye is actually secalin which does not contain the two constituents necessary to allow lift in the bread. It does contain the one necessary to be very harmful to people with celiac or a gluten sensitivity. The same is true of barley. Spelt is much closer to the wheat gluten as you suggested.




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            2. I see that now. There’s more to bread rising than just gluten content I guess. I make bread regularly with rye, oat, barley, buckwheat and spelt flour. And the spelt loaf rises substantially higher than the others. Rye and oat rising higher than barley and buckwheat. That’s my experience.




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      3. Thanks Blair. That’s a good start. The 7-10 grain cereal idea is particularly attractive as that will likely have resistant carbohydrates. I may also increase the flax meal though I will likely need to increase the gluten to hold it all together. The substitution of something else for rye should make no difference on the loft since rye contains no gluten either. I know little about spelt so need to check that one some more. I also like the idea of using cracked wheat but the multi grain idea may be much better.




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        1. I think the flax helps hold things together so I don’t think you should have to add more gluten if you add more flax. Not sure though. Yes, as far as I know rye does not contain gluten. I make it regularly with rye, oat, barley, buckwheat and spelt flour. The only one that has gluten is spelt as far as I know. And the spelt loaf rises substantially higher than the others. So if you want to reduce the added gluten then try using spelt flour.




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          1. Hi Blair – yes, you’re right. There is gluten in rye and barley as well. Since spelt is a derivative of wheat it does contain gluten, hence the nice rising effect you’ve noticed with your bread. As for the function of flaxseed, when it is ground flaxseed you can use it as an egg subsitute! Simply mix 1 Tbsp ground flaxseed + 3 Tbsp of water, let stand for a few minutes in a small dish and you will see it puff up a bit. Then add it to your recipe in place of an egg. Works beautifully in banana bread and other whole grain type muffins like pumpkin.




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              1. Yes, chia seed also can serve as an egg substitute. Use 1 Tablespoon freshly-ground chia seeds to 3 TBS water and allow mixture to gel for a few minutes before use. Now you have that healthy substitute! Joan-Nurse Educator Volunteer Moderator




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                1. Hi Joan,

                  Thanks.

                  In another context I am taking Chia by chewing on a teaspoonful and then swallowing.
                  I understand that Chia seeds can be digested and that we don’t have to crack them first as we do for flax seed.
                  Is that correct?
                  II understand that it works best to crack and soak when using them as an egg substitute).




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              2. I find chia seeds work nicely too. I use 1 tablespoon chia seeds + 3 tablespoons water = 1 egg – just as Joanne mentioned with the flaxseed. Let it sit for a few minutes and it’s ready to go!




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              3. Hello Rada – sorry for the delay in getting back to you. You might have already found the answer you were looking for, but yes, you can use chia meal (ground up chia seeds) as an egg substitute, similar to flaxmeal. Both are a 1:3 meal to water ratio (1 Tbsp meal + 3 Tbsp water).




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                1. Joanne,

                  Thanks.

                  I have found that we eat a lot of things out of habit and after a while, once you break the habit, the substitute becomes the new habit :-) Of course when we change our diet we have to change our shopping habits and learn new cooking skills … it’s not easy.

                  Someone mentioned that they make a nice banana cake, with egg substitute, so I’m looking forward to trying that one.




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    4. Stewart: I have been making multi-grain bread for a few years now (mainly whole-wheat + rye+oats). If you want to try my recipe, email me at dunngf@hotmail.com. I’ve adjusted Peter Reinhart’s formula to my own taste & experience.




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    5. Hi Stewart – I like to make a healthy Israeli Salad (you can google this). This is a typical salad which I make more healthy and has lots of tomatoes and cucumbers. I cook 1/4C brown rice, 1/4C quinoa, 1/4 wild rice, 1/4 C barley. In general, grains are cooked 2:1 water to grain. So I cook them all in the same pot together to save time and dishes. Sometimes I flavor the water with a little salt and granulated onion or use vegg broth for the water. If you have a rice cooker that would make it even simpler (I don’t). I also cook them with just a little less water to make them more al dente. After the grains cool, I fluff them in a large kitchen bowl. Add a whole bunch of cut up tomatoes and cucumbers. Traditionally there are equal parts vegetable to grain but make it how you like it. I then also pour about a 1/2C of vinegar/lime mix or balsamic vinegar or malt vinegar. If I have fresh parsley on hand I chop some of that on top or mint if it happens to be growing in the garden.
      This makes a big batch and I eat it over time. Add salt/pepper to taste of course. (and yes, I know that wild rice is technically a grain).
      So this is more of a grain salad, but I eat it for breakfast if I feel like it.
      Enjoy it!




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    6. You can google Essene Bread , Mother Earth news have a simple one that I tried a long time ago. You need some way to grind the sprouts, maybe a food processor might work or a meat grinder…lol. It’s really hard to believe it’s just wheat as it tastes sweet , almost like a cake.
      Those not familiar with Essene bread , it’s just sprouted wheat , about 3 to 5 day old sprouts.




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  2. You made me laugh with the “until know” thing xD!!
    I wonder why there’s people with sad diet and aren´t obese. I have been all my life struggling to loose weight even though I always ate “healthy”. I see people eating crap everyday and they just wont get fat.




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    1. I liked this pop-up as well! Your voice kept on as you’re mini-me pointed to the ‘until now’. It’s your signature, so why not?! I need to go back and re-watch the mircobiome videos. Thanks for your work, doc.




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      1. Sorry but although I found it ok, it will keep me from sending it to skeptical people I am trying to convince to take this kind of work seriously.




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    2. AnnieVanCookie: Why do some people get fat and some stay thin when eating pretty much the same type of SAD diet? Why do some people get or stay fat even when they try to eat healthy? It’s a great question. Dr. Lisle, one of the experts from Forks Over Knives, does a good job of answering that question at the beginning of his talk, How To Lose Weight Without Losing Your Mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAdqLB6bTuQ




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      1. hi thea,

        i searched and searched last night but couldn’t find the video i was looking for and am hoping you can direct me to it.

        recently, dr G changed his recommendation from methylcobalomin to cyanocobalomin because a small percentage of people don’t absorb the methyl.

        are you able to direct me to that one?

        thanks,
        donald.




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        1. AZ DONALD: From my memory, Dr. Greger has always recommended the cyanocobalamin form. Here are a couple pages where you see that recommendation: An Ask the Doctor page from 2012: http://nutritionfacts.org/questions/which-type-of-b12-is-best/ General nutrition recommendations from 2011: http://nutritionfacts.org/2011/09/12/dr-gregers-2011-optimum-nutrition-recommendations/ In the new book (How Not To Die), Dr. Greger talks about recommending the cyano… form because that’s the one that is tested in studies showing that it works. We don’t have the body of evidence showing that the other forms work.
          .
          If there is a page where Dr. Greger talks about changing his recommendation on B12, I’m sorry but I’m not aware of it.




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    3. Just because they’re skinny doesn’t mean they’re healthy. You can be skinny in a casket too. People with no muscle tone don’t survive heart attacks nearly as well, even if they’re skinny. Some of these people smoke and drink lots of booze, and don’t get proper nutrition. I think it’s mostly a temperament/personality thing. Many are disgusted by many types of foods.
      John S




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    4. There is some doctor out there, though I can’t remember who, who calls those people TOFI. It’s for Thin Outside Fat Inside. Many, maybe all or most, of them have the same problems with cholesterol, blood pressure, blood sugar, etc. as the average overweight person, but for some reason they don’t gain weight. Maybe it’s genetics, maybe their metabolisms just naturally run faster or maybe they don’t eat enough of the junky calories to get fat. In a previous life I owned a tavern and some of the regulars, especially the women, didn’t get fat. I suspect most of their calories came from the beer they drank every night.




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    5. As John S said, skinny doesn’t always mean healthy. You can eat a bad diet and not get fat (perhaps) but you still have an increased risk of early death. This same phenomenon is also seen in animals (I have pasted this before but it certainly bears repeating):

      “C57BL/6J mice were fed with a HF diet (60% kcal/fat) or control diets (15% kcal/fat) for 27 months. One-half of the mice on the HF diet developed obesity (diet-induced obese (DIO) mice), whereas the remaining mice were diet resistant (DR). At 8 months of age, both DIO and DR groups had increased hyperglycemic response during a glucose tolerance test, which was normalized in 16-month-old mice. At this latter time point, all groups presented similar performance in cognitive tests (Morris water maze and inhibitory avoidance). The survival curves of the HF and control diet groups started to diverge at 15 months of age and, after 27 months, the survival rate of mice in the DIO and DR groups was 40%, whereas in the control diet group it was 75%.”

      Source: “High saturated fat and low carbohydrate diet decreases lifespan independent of body weight in mice”
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3922950/




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      1. Tom,

        I am cautious when to comes to high fat mouse studies; in fact any mouse diet study.
        I checked on the details of one of them and found the supplier of the pellets used in the study.
        It appears a lot of labs use the same supplier and the content of the pellets is most unnatural ….. nothing that any self-respecting mouse would eat except one that is kept in captivity and has no other food choices. Nothing at all like a human diet, not even a SAD diet.




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        1. Hi Rada. Yes, I agree that animal studies are not infallible guides to the likely effects in humans.
          However, I think the study does illustrate the fact that the same diet eaten by genetically very similar individuals can make a substantial proportion of them obese but others remain slim.
          As for human effects, studies do show that low carb diets eaten by humans are associated with higher mortality. These often control for BMI. Also, I am not aware of any evidence that, in humans, high fat diets deliver a mortality advantage or even average mortality




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      2. Tom,

        And the converse: Chubby doesn’t always mean unhealthy. Are there not cases of individuals with pristine arteries who carry significant amounts of subcutaneous fat? Visceral fat is the risky kind, as I understand it. I’m trying to learn more about what factors contribute to differences in fat distributions: intra-abdominal, intra-muscular, etc.




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        1. Yep, my wife is healthy, eats the daily dozen with me for many years, but is still overweight. She is part polynesian, I suspect she is healthy despite being bigger. It’s natural for many polynesian people to be big.




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        2. Hi. Yes, some fat may be protective but I don’t think anybody really knows what the Goldielocks zone is. Some fat is certainly useful in cold climates, times of famine and shortage and in physically demanding environments. I remember for example that, in the British campaign to liberate the Falklands following the Argentinian invasion, some commanders stating that the troops that best coped with the long marches in freezing cold were not the super-fit low body fat individuals but those carrying some extra padding.

          However, it is not clear that a physiological state that is advantageous in short term stressful situations is automatically conducive to healthy longevity. And it is apparently known that obesity causes systemic inflammation (which obviously is not a good thing)
          http://advances.nutrition.org/content/2/3/261.full

          But as I said before, I do not know what the tipping point is.

          Good luck with your research.




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    6. My uncle was skinny all of his life. He was skinny when he had both of his quadruple bypasses and he was skinny when he died of cardio. I know a bunch of others who were exactly the sam. Skinny but died of cardio.




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      1. Yes, and I know of a man who is not overweight and on the slim side who has diabetes, exercises a lot, and eats SAD. Tom Hanks, relatively thin, also has Type II. Thin doesn’t mean healthy.




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  3. Would you add an even greater benefit to the mixed whole grains by chilling them before eating? I’m curious whether we would get the benefits of resistant starches with chilled whole grains. The studies we had seen previously showed a benefit when processed or refined (white) grains where cooled/chilled and then consumed.




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      1. What about whole grain pasta that’s not even cooked in the first place? I sometimes “cold-cook” pasta by just leaving it in cold water for a few hours, and then using it in a bean / pasta salad.




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    1. I am not familiar with this change in metabolism with chilled grains. If you have seen a reputable study regarding this please provide the link for our evaluation. The only change I could imagine would be a slight delay in getting the grain to body temperature which shouldn’t take long. Enzymes are very temperature dependent but work within a range and are denatured at high temperatures but I know of no effect on enzymatic function at cooler temperatures which wouldn’t persist much after ingestion.




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  4. I tried making bread without flour sugar and oil for over a year and finally let it go. Now I eat a slice of ezekial bread every day to satisfy my cravings for bread and 300 grams of cooked whole wheat ,barley and brown rice in their whole form. To cook it I boil 3 quarts of water and add 3 cups of wheat berries and a 1/2 a cup each of pearl barley and brown rice and simmer for an hour. Quick cool it by running cold water through it in a strainer and bag it up in 300 gram fold top sandwich bags.




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    1. You bring out a good point: bread is addictive! I can’t find where I read it before, but wheat has some kind of morphine-like substance it it. Bread is also an SOS (salt, oil, sugar) food. In fact, the average American gets more salt from bread than any other food. Bread has a high glycemic index, higher than intact grains. Trouble is, when I’m hungry, it’s the most convenient and appealing thing in the house. That is, it was. From now on, I’m going to keep bread out of my house and have some baked potatoes or yams in the fridge.




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          1. Yep! (Best to let them cool a bit before slicing though.) Better yet, I take a can of black beans, a few TBS of cocoa powder and peanut butter and a handful of softened dates or maple syrup, and puree them into a paste in a blender or food processor, with a bit of cinnamon or whatever you like, and spread it on the sweet potato slices before popping into the toaster oven! It also makes a great easy, healthy dip for fruit, crackers or anything!




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  5. I did not see in the study descriptions whether the whole grain variety that makes a difference in microbial richness (great term) is required over the course of a day, or perhaps over the course of a week. Did anyone pick that up?




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    1. good question Steve, and its an interesting answer ! the transcript says they used whole grain barley, or whole grain brown rice and the combination of the two worked better than either alone .
      hmm might be able to make a cold chopped vegie salad using both grains that wouldnt be bad ! hope that answers your question steve.




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      1. Variety, to me, is one of foundations of healthy eating. Research shows that variety even trumps volume (more types of healthy foods yields better health than more volume of healthy foods). My understanding is that the way to achieve variety is to eat all the plant-based food groups (fruit, veg, grains, legumes, nuts/seeds) over the course of a day, and a variety within each food group over the course of a week (variety of nuts, or veg (crucifers/onion family/starchy family/leafy green family, etc.). Since the research only tested daily variety and not weekly variety, we do not know for sure, so in order to go with what we know, eat a variety of grains daily.




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        1. Makes total sense to me steve. They achieved a better result mixing two varieties, so I would think it would be very beneficial to mix it up over the course of the week. I plan on mixing up grains in salads more often.. throwing in some lentils too, and trying new combinations. thanks Steve !




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  6. Glad to see you more animated in your videos, but this one needs fireworks and music. I recently tried a newer probiotic with 115 interdependent strains, as I eat more veggies, beans,and lentils than most the changes were profound.This information can still kick my biome into another gear. Thanks.




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      1. It is on my list to try, lol! First I have to decrease the amount of steel cut oats on my shelf.

        My old breakfast standby is steel cut oats and buckwheat in about a 3:1 to 4:1 ratio. At bedtime I simmer 1/4 cup of the grain mix in 1 cup of boiling water for 5 min, and then cover it and let it sit overnight. By the morning it is thoroughly cooked, so I just add 1-2 Tbsp of raisins and a little almond milk and briefly heat it. As it heats I cut up some fresh fruit (e.g., strawberries, blueberries, golden kiwi) and put that in a bowl with 1-2 Tbsp of flaxseed meal and 2 Tbsp of walnuts. The volume of fruit exceeds the volume of cooked oats/buckwheat. Then top off the bowl with almond milk.




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        1. Gatherer: I make my steel cut oats the same way, except that I do the cooking part in the microwave. I like the idea of using different grains. I’m planning on giving that a try. With today’s video, how could I not!




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          1. Have you seen that three grain medley Trader Joes sells in the frozen section? It’s all pre-cooked so you just need to thaw it out. If you want a multi-grain fast you can also turn to that.




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            1. nc54: I have! I always keep some bags in my freezer. It really is a great option as it is nothing but pre-cooked grains. No added oil or sugar or anything. I hadn’t thought about eating for breakfast/like oatmeal though. I usually poor savory sauces over it or incorporate it into casserole type dishes. I will have to think about using it for breakfast. Thanks for the idea. :-)




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    1. Normally when they discuss whole grains on this website , they mean whole grain milled to a flour , almost all the studies I looked at here were various products made from a milled grain.
      The above does however sound like it could be good , just no evidence that it would be better. As a matter of fact it is always mentioned to grind your flax seed , never consume them whole., even thou no evidence of that practice is ever mentioned either.




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      1. esben andersen: re: grinding flaxseed. Dr. Greger explains in one of the videos that flaxseed is very small and very tough. If you don’t grind it, it passes through the human body without being digested.




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  7. This is all very interesting! I have ulcerative colitis, and I have been on the SCD diet with some success, but I am currently having a flare up. What is your opinion on SCD? The research you have presented disagrees with the whole premise of SCD. Would you recommend that someone going through a UC flare up eat more whole grains with the hope of increasing good bacteria?




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    1. Obviously you have special issues that must be dealt with and I’m sorry you’re having problems and also sorry it’s taken so long to get to your question. There are many ways to obtain good bacteria beyond whole grains if you cannot tolerate whole grains in your diet. Generally diversity is more helpful so different sources of bacteria encourages diversity. Can you eat fermented food? There are many types of fermented sauerkrauts in the chilled case at the health food stores. If they agree with you, sauerkraut is very easy to make at home. There are many types of probiotics at the health food store as well that can increase and diversify your intestinal flora. If you can tolerate grains when you are feeling better be sure you start very slowly with small amounts and I would focus on the gluten free ones to ensure you are not compounding the one problem with the difficulty that can come with digesting gluten. Additionally, many people recommend soaking and sprouting grains in order to activate the enzymes contained within and to get rid of the coating around the grain that can also upset some people’s GI tracts. Again, sorry for the delay and I hope this is helpful.




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  8. I also enjoy a cold cereal sometimes so I mix 1/4 cup each of Ezekial, Uncle Sams, Old Fashioned Quick Oats. Lots of fiber, no sugar and add 1/2 tsp cinnamon, crushed walnuts some blueberries, raspberries etc. 1 tbs flax seeds. Use either almond or coconut milk.




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  9. Dr. Greger. Please stop inserting yourself into the videos in the way that you did for this video. The silliness of these cameos is not compatible with the seriousness of the subject. I fear you are doing harm to an otherwise incredibly outstanding product. Thank you.




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    1. Agreed. The silliness does nothing to help convey the information that others will take seriously. I think it does damage to the product – which is serious well done science on nutrition. This isn’t anything that I can share with my peers. And it frankly diminishes my “professional” standing with colleagues, friends, and family.




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  10. I am experiencing a bit of a problem in trying to see all the comments.When I click on the Load more comments bar, I get instantly taken to disqus log-in page. I have restarted the tablet etc, and find this most aggrevating ! anyone having this issue ?




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      1. Hi Jen, until NF team looks into the problem I can suggest a temporary ‘fix’ .. go to any comment posted , even this one, and click on reply ‘. You dont actally have to write anything.. then go load ,ore comments. Not sure what the connection is , but it seems to work here.. just leave a ‘reply’ window open somewhere and comments will load




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  11. However much I think these videos are important, I cannot share the ones with the creepy pop ups. My friends already think I am strange because I am a vegan. These pop ups would rather confirm it.




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    1. Jeanie – I am with you. There is such excellent science shared on this site but I can’t send anything to family/friends that has Dr. G hamming it up. Just makes us look like a bunch of whackos. And if I guide them to this site and they see whacko popups they just shake their head and call us fringe-diet-whackos. This doesn’t help the cause.
      Scientific research is presented in very dry (and boring) terms. There’s a reason for that.




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  12. The connection of grains and health was carefully put to rest by clinical doctors, with understanding of the scientific method, as they were able to see how many of their patients , with serous autoimmune disorders, recovered when they excluded all grains. Dr. Jean Seignalet collected abundant data on 2500 patients starting in 1983 and continued to collect the data on 2500 patients for 20 years. 23 diseases responded negatively to the diet. They were expecting about 25 cases of Alzheimer’s and the number wound up 0. Dr. Seignalet had an impeccable background in immunology and had published over 70 times in international peer reviewed journals.
    Dr. Terry Wahls found she had to abandon her 10 years vegetarian diet and drink 1-1 1/2 cups of homemade bone broth every day in order to supply her cells with the optimum nutrients for the cells to thrive, not just survive. She has conducted clinical studies and is conducting more. She was reprimanded by her chief of staff for telling her patients in the VA wing to eat no grains, take fish oil, etc. She brought in 85 studies to show him, and he did come around to be one of her staunchest supporters. Then the head of the hospital built a new wing for her to implement her ” new ” eating protocols. 5 years later he asked her to put forth a proposal for expanding the special wing. She is currently adhering to a paleo-ketogenic diet. She has charts in her book which clearly show the nutrient density of her protocol compared to the typical American diet, and her protocol includes no grains.
    Dr. Sarah Hallberg is conducting clinical studies on the obesity, diabetes crisis, and has posted on the results of her clinical practice at youtube and other web sites.
    Dr. Steven Gundry abandoned his regular practice as one of the most successful and innovative heart surgeons in the world as he could do more good advising his patients to avoid the things that cause the heart problems in the first place. He advises no grains and only does surgery 2 days a week, instead of 5. He accepts PPO and medicare. His understanding of evolutionary biology traces back to some of his theses at the college level.
    Dr. Hyman abandoned his vegetarian diet at a certain point as his health was suffering, and he now includes the same advise for his patients. His recent book ” Eat Fat, Get Thin”, includes a section on saturated fat where he goes through the meta-analyses from 2014, 2015, and draws the conclusion that saturated fat is actually protective of heart disease with 3 factors accounted for: Omega 6 to omega 3, adequate fiber, and low carb.
    Dr. Greger is a wonderful man and does many things that are exemplary and we can ask our children to learn from. But being married to a certain concept interferes with the scientific approach. At a very basic level, like intestinal permeability and brain fog, the gluten and gliadin do immense damage and should be abandoned. There are many substitutes that are healthier.




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      1. Harriet,
        The study I am thinking of from Feb. 2015 was a crossover study and showed statistically significant depression and brain fog from the gluten. The gliadin study from the same month showed increases permeability ( biopsied villae ) in all participants in the study.
        Gluten and gliadin are certainly not the only culprits, and the legumes ( like peanuts and cashews ) are very high in the harmful lectins. Dr. Gundry collected astonishing data on 1000 patients in terms of the lectin and the TNF-α. All the patients had normal TNF-α if they followed the diet. All, after 6 months and at 1 year follow up. He published on this in a journal: ( http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/129/Suppl_1/AP354 )
        Dr. Greger is providing us data on the gycotoxins.
        Dr. Hyman is saying the main instigator for the inflammation process in the heart problems is the sugar, not the fat. He makes some convincing arguments, with abundant references , in his recent book.




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        1. Hi Fred Lander,

          Thanks for your posts which have been very helpful to me.
          One good turn deserves another.
          Here is a link to an article from Jeffrey Dach, MD.
          It discusses, amongst other things, the pathway from Leaky Gut (LG) to “inflammation in the brain with activation of microglia, disturbance of the autonomic nervous system and neurotransmitter production causing depression, chronic fatigue, autonomic dysfunction and other disorders.21-37”.

          Dach fairly and squarely implicates Wheat causing Zonulin signalling that opens the epithelial tight junctions allowing bacterial translocation into the blood (measured as LPS – endotoxemia).
          I caution that IMO there is not one and one only risk factor for LG.

          http://jeffreydachmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Gut-Brain-Depressive-Hypothalamic-Dysfunction-High-Calcium-Score-Leaky-Gut-Jeffrey-Dach-2015.pdf

          Gut–Brain: Major Depressive Disorder, Hypothalamic Dysfunction, and High Calcium Score Associated With Leaky Gut Jeffrey Dach, MD

          FYI
          My strategy to cure LG includes a high raw fibre diet in the hope that this will increase my GI production of Butyrate (Butyrate assists healing of the gut.

          [quote]

          Butyrate is a short chain fatty acid produced by intestinal microbial fermentation of dietary fibres [115] which in experimental models stimulates mucus production and expression of TJs in vitro but a wider range of action is expected [116–120]. It is so crucial for general homeostasis of enterocytes that its deficiency, measured as faecal concentrations, has been taken as an indirect indicator of altered barrier function [9, 121, 122]. In clinical practice topical butyrate had proved efficacy in refractory distal UC [123].

          [unquote]

          Intestinal Permeability in Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Pathogenesis, Clinical Evaluation, and Therapy of Leaky Gut
          Andrea Michielan * and Renata D’Incà

          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4637104/




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    1. Hi Fred Lander,

      Thanks for the good references.
      Haven’t read them all but I do like some of Dr Gundry’s work.
      I’ll bookmark the rest.

      There is plenty of good science out there for the wheat/gluten/Zonulin signalling correlation to Leaky Gut, plus other good science about the risks of gluten in general i.e. non caeliac gluten sensitivity (NCGS) and also lectins.
      I am surprised that none of the mountains of science, in those areas, seems to make it into NF presentations.

      Re your comments on Dr Greger…. that’s a +1 from me.
      I do admire many of his qualities, and forgive him for any tiny blemishes ;-)




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      1. Mike Quinoa I was just going to say that I have been mulling that over, but defer to the fundamental things like intestinal permeability and brain fog and depression, but it occurred to me that frequently in these meta-analyses there are confounding factors not accounted for. That many of the people eating steak and french fries also smoke comes to mind.
        For the time being, until I understand the relevance of the study you referred to more, I am emphasizing avoiding Alzheimer’s, avoiding autoimmune disorders like RA and PsA, and keeping my OA under control.
        It is of interest since Dr. Greger has been doing research on ulcerative colitis and diet that this disease was one of the 23 that responded negatively to the Seignalet Protocol. But of the 237 with regular colitis 233 had complete remission. Of 19 with gastritis 18 had complete remission and of 72 with Crohn’s 62 had complete remission. Autoimmune diseases like RA, OA, and PsA also had remarkable remission rates, often in the 70 and 60% range.
        Dr. Seignalet’s protocol also involves very low temperature cooking and high percentage raw. I have been experimenting the last few weeks with most of my meals raw ( one meal per day ), and am seeing substantial improvement with my sleep quality. It may be the glycotoxin content. Also mostly a little raw fish, sushi , as protein and I scrape off most of the rice. Getting a lot of ideas from Dave Asprey of the bulletproof diet. ( ps- the brain octane is just caprylic acid ).




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    2. Hi Fred – I have read your comments and the rest of the discussion about your comments re: grains. And of course Dr. Greger’s thoughts that grains are good. So, for my comments I’m referencing only whole grains (rice, wheat berries, barley, cracked wheat, etc.).

      So I have been thinking about this. When I went WFPB I added lots of grains to my diet. My next blood work showed that my triglycerides took a real jump into ‘over the upper limit’ territory although not by much. But I didn’t want this. Dr. Fuhrman states that if this happens to eliminate grains and eat (basically) a beans and greens diet. I find grains satisfying however and didn’t want to eliminate them. But I do think I must have been over-doing it.

      So I thought about it a little differently. When I’m confused about what I should or should not be eating, I look at our best friends, the animals. And I was thinking about grazing animals that eat grass – because that’s where grains come from. In a natural setting, cows, deer, antelope, giraffe’s, etc. don’t eat grains all of the time. Grains don’t come into the natural environment until after a growing season. The grass grows all summer, the cows eat it, and the grains develop at the end of the summer. That’s when the cows consume the grains in a natural setting. This, normally, would fatten them up for the coming winter. So I’m thinking that it might be that grains are good for us but only to a point. I’m thinking that, perhaps, eating bowls and bowls of grains daily (oatmeal for breakfast, rice for dinner) might be too energy dense a diet. I’m thinking that perhaps in this case less is more. If one thinks about it, CAFO farms give cows corn, a grain, in a low-energy-expenditure situation to fatten them up. Grains are extremely energy dense.

      So I have drastically reduced the grains in my diet but do still have some but not every day. I definitely do not eat grains at night (too energy dense to sleep on) and if I am going to have grains I eat them in the morning or at lunch, latest, to burn them off. I am not an athlete, however, and my diet might be different if I were.

      So I guess I’m not taking a position on either side of the fence regarding grains, but just adding some thoughts about how grains might fit better into our diets.
      I appreciate hearing your information on grains. Thank you.




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  13. As us 5 minutes of mostly undivided attention and we’ll try and give it. Disrespect the effort we make by fooling around and popping up left right and centre, and you’ll lose the trust…Great videos…”until now”. :(




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    1. I find the pop-ups so distracting that I fail to concentrate on what is being said. I then have to go back and look away so that I can concentrate on the words. Then I have to try to figure out when I can look back at the screen and pay attention again. The popups are completely distracting and serves nothing but to waste my time. Very frustrating.
      My suggestion: Do either a completely goofy video all the way through so that I can just listen and not watch and know what to expect. Or do a straight video with no popups and goofiness all the way through. One or the other. But this popping into the video serves no productive purpose. Personally, I think the goofiness does nothing to enhance the great science of this site, but it does take away.
      Thanks for listening.




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    1. Hi Krisann,
      There is no recommended upper limit to those seeds and powders you mentioned, but any healthy diet should stick to the recommendations and have a variety of foods rather than focus on one. Here’s a great video on dietary diversity and why it’s important.
      Here’s an interesting video on the dangers of overdosing on tea!




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  14. You forgot to mention the most important piece of information about whole grains.Never eat grains that have been desiccated with Roundup before it was harvested. If it is not grown organically, then chances are ,Over 90%, it was sprayed with Roundup (Glyphosate and its adjuvants) to make harvesting easier. This leaves residues of pesticide on the grain seeds which cause all kinds of intestional problems in so many people when they consume these desiccated grains and flour.
    and they don’t even know why they don’t feel good. Half the time people are not gluten- intolerant, its just that their bodies can not tolerate the residues of pesticides, like Roundup, on the grains which they make into our breads, buns and bakery goods.




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      1. KijBeta

        If you use honey it does….as one example. Please see this new report at: https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/more-bad-news-honey-us-seeks-get-handle-glyphosate-residues-food. The question you pose might be rephrased as, “at what continued level and what changes are likely to be seen with ingestion of glyphosate and other OP residues”. There appears to be an obesogen connection here but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Please see : http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/44278/title/Obesogens/ for an animal study. But there’s plenty more to consider. see: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4997451/ . Overall the current evidence is that persistent intakes of many products in this family are indeed in our food and disruptive of many chemical pathways in our bodies. Best to avoid and use organic food. Dr. Alan Kadish Moderator for Dr. Greger




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        1. Interesting, I did not know about he honey. I don’t eat honey anymore but I will tell my friends that use it in their tea to be more selective.
          Obesogen connection seem pretty weak, especially in levels we would see in vegetables and the effect inside a body. let alone the effect on the mice compared to humans with a diverse source of food such as in the stores in most developed countries.
          Rinsing vegetables and grains before use (like they do before most food processing, and what you should always do at home) should eliminate enough to be safe unless the obesogen hypothesis transfers to humans in much less than relative animal study quantities. (note: I did not look at all chemicals listed in all links, I focused on gycophosate because that’s what you mentioned)

          https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/weed-whacking-herbicide-p/
          This article points out the levels of the other chemicals especially some of the transport molecules can be much more worrisome and more common than glyphosate. This may also be the reason why when we search for the link that we believe these can cause, we are just looking in the wrong direction. this may also be the reason the obesogen link is so weak in humans for the chemical it’s self.

          There is a lot we don’t know yet, but advocating for people to avoid good cheap food, when the majority of the risk is avoidable by rinsing is not helping anyone. The organic food industry that has other chemicals that are just as dangerous are pointed out in one of your articles linked. but you recommend organic produce that has OPP’s (looks more dangerous than the one we are replacing OCP). The same rules(rinse your food) and risk apply, organic is not a magic solution.




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          1. KijBeta,

            Good overall take on the issue. I agree that rinsing and removing the skin on some items is probably adequate. See the EWG.org listing.

            I would direct you to see the various studies done with organic food and the subsequent lowering of many pesticides.http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1408660/ and http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-04-food-significantly-lowers-pesticide-exposure.html

            I would also be curious if we see the classic U pattern vs the dose relationship pattern is indeed present. Is the response to the obesogens such that with the lower levels they become far more of an issue and perhaps part of a confluence of multiple inputs. We truly don’t know yet….. thanks again for your insight. Dr. Alan Kadish Moderator for Dr. Greger




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            1. Alan,

              Mainly talking past you, to KijBeta, and the wider audience.

              If we are sitting in a health professionals chair then we have to treat the person holistically, which includes their social, environmental, financial and psycho-spiritual capacity (temperament) as well as their experience and current health philosophy. So, we can’t just rely on the science alone.

              Taking all of that into account for myself, mfor example, and factoring in my current objectives, I find it easier to minimize ‘producer’ risk (food additives, pesticides et. c) by nominally avoiding them as far as possible. It is a lot easier for me to do this than it is to stress about the ‘what ifs’ and try to manage it by continually reading labels and referring to the food additive/pesticide risk data (not to mention the deceptive practises of some producers).

              I find that by better management of my food e.g. avoiding waste by washing, dicing and freezing veges on the day of purchase and by making most of my own food my total food bill at nominally 100% organic is about what it was in the past when I ate a small amount of take-away and processed foods.

              My wife was opposed to the organics, based on cost, but she is gradually coming around as she sees my health improving, the food tastes better and that my ‘healthy’ meals taste pretty good.

              People on a constrained budget can eliminate a large majority of producer risk just by avoiding the ‘dirty dozen’ and replacing them with organics.
              https://www.ewg.org/foodnews/summary.php

              Data is also coming in that shows organic foods, in general, do have a higher nutrient content.

              Nutrient Levels in Organic vs. Conventional Foods
              Naturopathic Doctors News and Reviews

              http://ndnr.com/botanical-medicine/nutrient-levels-in-organic-vs-conventional-foods/

              (references at the bottom of the page)

              Re: ” I would also be curious if we see the classic U pattern vs the dose relationship pattern is indeed present. Is the response to the obesogens such that with the lower levels they become far more of an issue and perhaps part of a confluence of multiple inputs. We truly don’t know yet”.

              Excellent point.

              I believe I did see one or two examples of an increased response, at a low dose c.f. a high dose, in vitro (specific to the substance tested) …. I’ll have to keep an eye out to see if I can stumble on them again.

              Given my current objectives/interest (Leaky Gut) I’m concerned enough about the unknown to aim for 100% avoidance of pesticides/food additives for a while. I don’t think they are a significant factor but I’m avoiding them on suspicion.
              My guess is that a high fibre/high nutrient diet, with a healthy microbiome, will help mitigate most impacts.
              I think it will be extremely difficult for the scientists to prove, in vivo, that any individual pesticide is harmful to the gut lining, let alone metabolically once ingested.




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        1. Don’t get me wrong I am all for lowering our use of pesticides. it’s horrible for our environment. I just don’t like the hyperbole and fake science used in far too many claims. There is nothing wrong with advocating for reducing the use of all types of pesticides.




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          1. KijBeta,

            RE: “I am all for lowering our use of pesticides”

            I never doubted you for a minute :-)

            Here is a site that transcribes the USDA Pesticide Data Program into a user friendly forum.

            http://www.whatsonmyfood.org/level.jsp?food=LT&pesticide=967

            Some members are concerned that food marketed as organic still contains pesticides.
            Although data isn’t available for all fruit and vege and sample sizes are small the few examples I looked at all indicate significantly less pesticides in organic food, on average.

            For both Glyphosate and pesticides in general it comes down to the definitions of what is an acceptable daily exposure and whether each individual accepts that definition and that exposure.

            At the moment I am on an elimination diet so I don’t want to take the risk or have pesticides as an uncontrolled factor in my dietary experiment so I am 100% organic.
            Most of the food tastes so much better so I will probably just stay at that level.

            Glyphosate is sprayed around plants for weed control and it is supposed to be bio-degradable (whatever that actually means) so I guess it is not as likely to end up in our bodies as, say, a systemic poison that is sprayed on an edible plant (haven’t looked into that one though).
            For a lot of us the effect on creatures in the food-chain is just as concerning e.g. bee toxicity




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        1. Wow that information is highly unreliable. I suggest you look at the information and hyperbole used in the paper and the lack of actual numbers that would relate to the disruption of the metabolic pathways they are suggesting. Nothing counters their argument because it’s pure non-deterministic statements of conjecture and possibilities. “cyclical process that could be utilized to transport sulfate” means absolutely nothing. Nothing like it has been shown to exist.
          Here is a link to the actual paper http://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/15/4/1416/htm




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        1. That is awesome, I did not know that much data was out there. Surprised to see estimates being soo far off of reality though. Looks like Plant based diets would be closer to or even slightly above the 2.1% of the EU ADI at the high end of the recorded measurements.




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          1. KijBeta,

            As an aside; I find it helps to balance any uncertainty caused by the possibility of biased/corrupt data in our national data to look offshore and compare.
            In a few cases the European Union has additional information to that which is available in the states.
            They also have a tradition of using herbalism, and folk remedies, so, sometimes they have a range of products or policies not seen within the USA.




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    1. Hi Belinda! The definition of whole grains from The Whole Grains Council: “All grains start life as whole grains. In their natural state growing in the fields, whole grains are the entire seed of a plant. This seed (which industry calls a “kernel”) is made up of three key edible parts – the bran, the germ, and the endosperm – protected by an inedible husk that protects the kernel from assaults by sunlight, pests, water, and disease.”

      Barley, brown rice, buckwheat, millet, oats, popcorn, quinoa, wild rice, and 100% whole-wheat pastas/breads are examples of whole grains. Hope this helps!




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  15. I do not eat meat my diet is fruits, vegetables, grains, beans, lentils, nuts, tempeh, Tofu and I eat fish and eggs . I drink my Vege-Greens juice every morning and I drink my 2 liters of water a day. Last week I had a blood test done and my Potassium is high 5.4. Now I need to cut down on High Potassium food that includes everything that I eat that is grains, beans etc.. Now I need to go on a Low Potassium diet that leaves me with no Fiber in my diet which it does not help my gut I’m now constipated…what can I do it’s a no win situation!!




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    1. Hi Meshow,

      I am sure others in this forum can do a better job at helping you than I can.

      In the interim:

      – constipation is physically and mentally debilitating. Go back on your diet until your stools settle down and you get some better advice and sort it out.

      – go to the USDA standard reference database/nutrients list and filter vege/fruit/grains to find an interim list of foods that are lowest in Potassium… eat them for a while
      – see another health professional and get a second opinion on the Potassium levels
      – get some advice on mineral balance – you might need a Potassium antagonist (Sodium or Magnesium might be involved – check how much Sodium/Magnesium you are actually eating and compare to the RDI)
      – in an emergency a little coconut oil and psyllium husk will help with the stools until you get a new protocol that works
      (1-3 tspn or up to 20 mls coco oil – depends if you are used to it or not – it can cause some people Diarrhea at first )
      – make sure you don’t have a medical condition causing high Potassium

      I hope someone helps you soon.




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    2. That sounds extreme, you should never have to cut out that much to drop your levels into a safe range (assuming you are healthy).
      Your first option should be to cutout the Vege-greens in your diet. it’s unregulated supplementation that can be the sole cause of your problem.
      then speak with your doctor what changes you are making, and about getting your levels checked more often to see what helps, and gets you out of the danger zone.
      If you are not having your kidney function checked that should be one of the first things you talk to your doctor about, especially if basic changes to diet have not dropped your potassium levels. Your kidneys can get rid of high amounts of potassium if they are working correctly, and regulatory hormones are being produced.

      And Lastly I am not a health professional I am a random person on the internet and none of my advice is sound or reliable in any way, I am just giving you an idea of what could help and encourage you to talk to your doctor instead of asking for advice from strangers.




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  16. Dr Greger,

    I like your cameo pop-up appearance.
    It’s funny and fun; IMO we have to have a bit of fun with it and there is no need to be sour and dour even though health is a serious subject.
    I think it is great how you have developed, as a performer, over the years (to sell anything you have to market it and the health message definitely needs to get out there and penetrate the market, so the end justifies the means).
    In your early work you were a little awkward (lets face it you are a geeky guy) but you have developed into a somewhat charismatic performer (hey, you’re not Tom Hanks but well done).

    Now you are finding out what all people who take to the stage find out; the public are fickle and some of them think they own you.
    For my money (well actually your stuff is all free but let’s not spoil a good yarn with the facts) you are doing a good job and you don’t need me to tell you how to do it. Just keep doing it your own way.
    My job is to read your stuff, share my opinions with the other members and tell you when I think your health hypotheses are wrong; that’s easy enough. I can do that :-)




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  17. How do weight concerns square up against illnesses either caused ny or exacerbated by the current grains in our food supply? (See DANGEROUS GRAINS by Bialy & Hoggans)




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    1. I have not read this book but thank you for mentioning it. This has really become a hotbed of research and since this book is nearly 15 years old now there is probably much more recent information for you to refer to to add to Dr. Greger’s videos. The most recent research I have read pertains to our food, the microbiome in our guts and the clear correlation with weight, so you are definitely on the right track.




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  18. How do weight concerns square up against illnesses either caused by or exacerbated by the current grains in our food supply? (See DANGEROUS GRAINS by Bialy & Hoggans)




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  19. Two friends have started a program called “Ideal Protein” to lose weight. They have lost 12 lbs and 15 lbs in about 5 weeks. As I understand it, they have few grains — among other things. One has heart problems and they other has type 2 diabetes. Should I be concerned for them?




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    1. Concerned: The devil is in the details. Without knowing more about their diets, it’s hard to say whether concern is called for or not. What I can say is that there are all sorts of ways to lose weight, many of them quite unhealthy, either short term or long term or both. So, losing weight in and of itself is not an indication that what they are doing is healthy or even neutral.
      .
      I can also say that we know what healthy/ideal protein is – it’s the protein that comes naturally in whole plant foods, including whole grains. See http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/protein and http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/protein.html So, if your friends are eating more protein than is healthy or are eating significant amounts of unhealthy foods which happen to contain protein (meat, dairy and eggs), then there would definitely be reason for concern.
      .
      You may know that there are some great books to help people with heart disease and type 2 diabetes, diseases which can be arrested for most people and even reversed. Let me know if you think links to Esselstyn and Barnard’s books would help.




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    2. Hi Concerned,

      Three specific concerns (there are bound to be others but off the cuff):

      opltoo fast and will end up with skin folds
      – our fat accumulated toxins, like heavy metals, which will be released into the bloodstream as they lose fat. At that rate of weight loss they will overload their liver (refer to Dr Gundry ‘The Diet Evolution)

      It’s just another version of the Atkins diet isn’t it? (plenty of information on Aitkens if you search).

      People with health issues like that, who want to lose weight, should be under medical/health professional supervision.

      I doubt that the diet is sustainable either … they will probably put it all back on soon.




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  20. I posted these new studies on another video, because the guidelines suggested doing that it it didn’t fit anywhere else. But this is THE closest video to the study topic! I jumped on it hoping to see this relation to gut microbiome covered.
    Well, here they are. If a tree falls in the forest, and no one talks about it, does that mean it didn’t make any sound?

    http://www.neuroscientistnews.com/research-news/study-demonstrates-role-gut-bacteria-neurodegenerative-diseases

    http://www.neuroscientistnews.com/research-news/finnish-study-establishes-connection-between-gut-microbiota-and-parkinsons-disease

    I don’t have Parkinson’s, and I am not asking for medical advice.

    But my heart jumped at this news, and the silence since then has been deafening.
    Or maybe I just don’t read the right news?

    The NF article on Parkinson’s was before these new studies, and these videos on gut microbiota didn’t address Parkinson’s. But this is ripe for some (newly studied) hope that diet can prevent Parkinson’s. But how? I never heard of some of the gut bacteria mentioned in these articles on the studies! So I don’t have the knowledge to relate it to diet, in ways we didn’t know of before.

    Please look into these studies!
    Thank you.
    Val




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    1. Holey moley, I did see that Prevotella were mentioned in the enterotype videos! Less prevotella (the predominant one in the plant based diet), was associated with the Parkinson’s in one study.
      But the other study mentioned both curli-producing E. Coli, and “Another interesting study was that the amount of bacteria from the Enterobacteriaceae family in the intestine was connected to the degree of severity of balance and waling problems in patients. The more Enterobacteriaceae they had, the more severe the symptoms.” (!)

      I do not understand that. To me, enterobacteriaceae means “gut bacteria”. And a “family”, especially in bacteria, is a huge um, group. And it includes everything from “good” bacteria to awfulpathogenic killers. So how does this correlation help?




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      1. Occams_Razor,

        Re:”Holey moley, I did see that Prevotella were mentioned in the enterotype videos!”

        Which video is that?
        Do you have a link?

        Re:”So how does this correlation help?”

        It doesn’t until they prove causation.
        They are just getting over-excited and waffling on.
        The interesting part is the bacteria specific protein that is proposed as “leading to an increase in clumping of the protein alpha-synuclein in the brain. Aggregates, or clumps, of misfolded alpha-synuclein and related amyloid proteins are seen in the brains of patients with the neurodegenerative diseases AD, PD and ALS.”
        It’s not clear to me how many bacterial species, common to the gut, produce that type of protein, how many people, with or without those bacteria, have a neuro-degenerative disease or how the suspect protein gets to the brain but interesting none the less.

        Dr’s are already doing poo-fusions (exchanging peoples poo substrates in order to exchange bacteria,
        In the future specific bacteria will be introduced to, or removed from, the gut as required, on an individual basis.
        We still have a lot to learn though before we get to that point e.g. as another link from neuroscientist news shows the microbiome is inter-dependent on the hosts stress levels …. tricky!

        http://www.neuroscientistnews.com/research-news/scientists-show-link-between-intestinal-bacteria-and-depression

        Multiple Sclerosis is also in the mix.
        http://www.neuroscientistnews.com/research-news/researcher-finds-link-between-gut-bacteria-and-multiple-sclerosis




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        1. Which video? This one! 
          http://nutritionfacts.org/video/whats-your-gut-microbiome-enterotype/

          I only felt obligated to mention it so someone wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that I was trolling a bunch of videos, rather than trying to find an appropriate place to mention a NEW- new study.

          And maybe bring these to Dr. Greger’s keen new-study skills. Not to mention his superb distillation of the studies in a video that *ding* *light goes on* makes it clear and understandable.

          It was interesting news, but even with some university biology, I hadn’t heard of any of the bacteria, and still haven’t, except for the mention of prevotella. But even then, it’s a name I don’t know what to do with, in terms of practical knowledge.
          There it is again, prevotella being more prevalent in a plant-based diet, and being less evident in Parkinson’s patients. Sure, I see an obvious “conclusion”, but that is the end of the knowledge. What about other studies? And the other bacteria mentioned in the two studies I saw?

          To re-use my analogy, I feel like this humongous tree fell and no one has heard it and used the sound to perform further studies.




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      1. Thea,

        FYI the neuroscientistnews links from Occams Razor will not open in my Outlook mail (Surface 3) from Disqus.
        I had to go to NF online to get them.
        Might be a Disqus or site issue?




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        1. rada: Sounds like a disqus or Outlook issue. It is not likely a a site issue since disqus generates the e-mails. So I don’t think there is anything we can do about it. I’ll keep that in mind though in case I can think of something we can do to help. Thank you for reporting the issue.




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    2. Hi Occams_Razor,

      I’m a big fan of Occams Razor myself.

      Thanks for your posts.
      They suggest an interesting new pathway from the Gut to the Brain.

      The scientists are currently very interested in Microbiome research, and it’s implications, and there is a lot of speculation about possible association with many diseases, however, I have found few hypotheses specifying credible mechanisms.
      Here is one that does do that (I have posted this before but you might have missed it).
      In this paper Dr Dach M.D puts forward the proposal that Leaky Gut is the root cause of inflammation in the brain, leading to neurodegeneration (scroll down to citations 21-37 for the details).

      [quote]

      LEAKY GUT, LPS CAUSES MICROGLIA ACTIVATION IN THE BRAIN
      As recent work by Allesio Fasano has revealed, in susceptible individuals, the ingestion of wheat gluten triggers the release of zonulin, a hormone that opens the “tight junctions” between epithelial cells of the gastrointestinal (GI) mucosa.17-20 For people with gluten sensitivity, the prolonged opening of channels between the epithelial cells makes the gut lining permeable to undigested food particles and gut bacteria, which “leak” into the blood stream; thus, we have a leaky gut. This is also called low-level endotoxemia, or LPS, the outer membrane of enteric gram-negative bacteria that activates macrophages and immune cells to release of inflammatory cytokines into the blood stream. This slurry of LPS and inflammatory mediators eventually reaches the cerebral circulation, causing inflammation in the brain with activation of microglia, disturbance of the autonomic nervous system and neurotransmitter production causing depression, chronic fatigue, autonomic dysfunction and other disorders.21-37

      [unquote]

      Gut–Brain: Major Depressive Disorder, Hypothalamic Dysfunction, and High Calcium Score Associated With Leaky Gut Jeffrey Dach, MD

      http://jeffreydachmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Gut-Brain-Depressive-Hypothalamic-Dysfunction-High-Calcium-Score-Leaky-Gut-Jeffrey-Dach-2015.pdf




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        1. Alan,

          +1
          Happy to read any other authors you care to recommend.

          F.Y.I
          This is my ‘second coming’ as a ‘health food’ adherent.
          The first time around it was all heart (we wanted to save the world and be forever young) and I didn’t do a good job of it.
          This time it’s different; my capacity has improved with age and of course we have the net and I can rub shoulders with the best (thank God people like Perlmutter are flogging books and at a steal to boot … only AUD $11 for a chrystalization of his lifes work… purchased and downloaded the Kindle version to my desktop in <5min).

          This time I'm using subjective tools e.g. 'listening to my body' with more awareness and meshing that with the Dr's guidelines et.cogically
          Here's a taste tempter of what I'm getting back subjectively:

          – a hybrid version of the AIP has become an island of safety for me. Ideologically I didn't set out to arrive in that place. As I start to transition away from that I am finding some foods I used to tolerate are now suspect. Provisional conclusion == allergens may be more common, to children, than we commonly suspect, and possibly cause a significant amount of childhood disease but over time our body learns to do its best under the circumstances and just puts up with the allergens. If we go off 'our' allergens for a while the anti-response roars back and warns us to avoid this food?
          I'm warming to the concept of the 'elimination diet' as a 'diagnostic tool' e.g. if I did the full workup on Leaky Gut (stomach acid, Lactose intolerance, bile adequacy and so on) I'd have to live at my Dr's surgery for a year and rob a bank ….. in the comfort of my own home the elimination diet, performed with diligence, appears to provide a lot of answers for me (possibly not for everyone asnd it depends on mental acuity et. c).

          – I tried to re-introduce dairy via Kefir as I wanted the 'live' Probiotics. It wasn't well accepted.
          (note that I am going away from probiotics in a pill as I don't think they are effective). That only leaves me A2 dairy protein or home-made kefir or alternative Kefir's/ferments to try out).

          – the stomach appears to be inter-connected to the gut as a first defense ….. some of the epithelial biology is similar? It appears to me that the stomach has a 'psychic' function of warning us when we swallow 'allergenic' foods … vomiting is the ultimate filter against unacceptable foods while mild stomach pain/nausea is the first stage?

          – I have tried to re-introduce grains t they are just not well tolerated either. Rice is OK especially if eaten with a salad but only one serve per week. Eating one serve of grains per day is creating some negative responses from the body.

          P.S

          Science is completely unaware, as yet, of some facts of nature e.g. consciousness is a form of matter (E=MC2 == energy is interchangeable with matter. At the level where consciousness exists it can travel distances, and penetrate physical barriers, that matter as we know it can't.
          Even from thousands of miles away I can sense the quality of some individuals souls just from an email or a post (at the moment of posting some energy from that person is enshrined in their post owing to their concentration on the act of forming a thought to encapsulate in words).




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        2. Just a heads up (I don’t think this could happen in the USA owing to the enshrinement of ‘freedom of speech’ within the constitution …. unlike Australia which doesn’t have ‘human rights’ written into the constitution).

          Gary Fettke is an Australian Orthopaedic Surgeon who is also a leading advocate for a LCHF diet (see Low Carbs Down Under on UTube).
          He was recently issued with a desist order ostensibly because a registered Nutritionist filed an official complaint about him proscribing diet for diseases when he is not a qualified nutritionist.

          Copied from ‘The Examiner” a local Australian newspaper

          Launceston doctor ‘silenced’ by medical board
          Melissa Mobbs
          @melissamobbs
          14 Aug 2016, 3 p.m
          A prominent medical practitioner in Launceston fears he may be deregistered as a result of an ongoing investigation into his qualifications by the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency.
          Dr Gary Fettke, who specialises as an orthopaedic surgeon, has been offering alternatives to surgery and healthcare through a low carbohydrate, healthy fat approach for the past four years.

          SILENCED: Launceston orthopaedic specialist Dr Gary Fettke has received a proposed caution from the Medical Board of Tasmania.
          However his public campaign has come to a halt after he received a proposed caution advising him not to “provide specific advice or recommendations on the subject of nutrition”.
          As part of the proposed caution, Dr Fettke is unable to speak at any public or professional meetings that involve the discussion of nutrition or discuss nutrition with his patients in any clinical setting.
          The Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency investigation into Dr Fettke began after an anonymous complaint in June 2014.
          Taking to social media, his wife Belinda Fettke said her husband had been silenced.
          “Until the case is finalised he will have to abide by the law to maintain his professional registration,” Mrs Fettke said.
          “It’s going to compromise his practice. Gary believes in a holistic approach to patient care and the best health outcomes. “He has been given a right of reply and will be questioning the proposed caution.”
          The online post has reached over 400,000 people including celebrity chef Pete Evans who has publicly shared his support for Dr Fettke.
          “This is a man who has been studying diet and its role on health and getting wonderful results,” Mr Evans said. “Gary is at the coalface of what can happen with type 2 diabetes as he removes their feet as his job as an orthopaedic surgeon and he wants to help.”
          A spokesperson for the Medical Board of Australia and the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency said they were unable to comment.
          “The National Law prevents us from commenting on any individual health practitioners or matters,” they said.
          “This is to protect the integrity of processes if they are underway and any current or future action we may take.”
          Health Minister Michael Ferguson said he would not comment on a live AHPRA investigation.




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        3. I forgot to mention that while some of the food factions are down on Fructose. Referring to Fructose in fruit; I’m not getting that either from a common sense point of view or from the subjective response on my body ….. my only concern about fruit sugar is the possibility that it might favour gut fungal growth Candida) over gut bacterial growth.
          So far it seems to me it is a matter of frequency/portion size and perhaps specific to certain fruits e.g. I find oranges, say 1-2 day, do not seem to promote Candida symptoms (is it the Mighty C at wotk once again or other factors?)




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    3. I just finished a fellowship in Integrative Medicine and studies very similar to these were presented to us in our neurology section. Research showing how there is a bidirectional communication between the chemical by products of digestion and the production of neurotransmitters is exploding at medical research centers around the world. I am sure there will be many more studies like these in the future. Thanks for sharing.




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  21. I love Dr Greger, he’s my number one guy for all things nutrition, and I listen to all his video posts. But I’m not enjoying the new pop-up doc in the videos.




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    1. mbglife: I hear you. So did the NutritionFacts team. The popups have been pre-recorded in the remaining videos in the volume. That means we are stuck with them for a bit. But after that, no new videos will be recorded with the popups. Sit tight!




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      1. Hi Thea- What I think is great is that you all are willing to try new things to see how people like them. And when enough of us don’t, you’re willing to respond to that too (that’s the really good part). Thanks for the update and to being receptive to the preference. The only other thing I’d like to see changed is that on my phone, too much of the screen is taken up by the green help ?. And there’s not really a need for it since there’s also the search box. The way I look at is is that I often check NF on my phone and the green dot is always in the way. I rarely use the search function. So for me the trade-off of not having the big green dot is worth it. Thanks for listening.

        Mark G




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    1. Hi Juliet, I’m glad you asked. I happen to be certified in functional medicine by the Institute for Functional Medicine and the truth is that there happen to be a few “gurus” who espouse that grains are the sole cause of leaky gut and those people also identify themselves as Functional Medicine practitioners, so many people have the impression that functional medicine teaches that grains are bad. In my opinion the sensational book authors who tell you you shouldn’t eat grains are selling books and are not presenting scientific data. In functional medicine we are taught that leaky gut (intestinal permeability) is a problem of damage to the lining of the intestines caused by inflammation and their are any number of substances that can contribute to that inflammation. Gluten, sugar, and processed foods just to name a few. As Dr g has pointed out, even animal products. http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-leaky-gut-theory-of-why-animal-products-cause-inflammation/
      In both my personal and professional experience whole grains as provided in a WFPB diet (with the exception of gluten in someone who has actual celiac disease) are not problematic and the other non-gluten containing whole grains like quinoa, brown rice, oats etc. should not be problematic and have no scientific evidence of contributing to intestinal permeability. Not all Functional Medicine practitioners discourage grains just the ones who are trying to sell books.




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      1. Hi payoung,

        Re: “there happen to be a few “gurus” who espouse that grains are the sole cause of leaky gut and those people also identify themselves as Functional Medicine practitioners ….. Not all Functional Medicine practitioners discourage grains just the ones who are trying to sell books”.

        It is unprofessional to make sweeping criticisms of a class of authors. All authors are not created equal, some authors books are better than others and any ‘health’ book generally is correct on some issues and incorrect on others.
        Should we stop reading them and only listen to you or Dr Greger?

        Could you please be specific and provide an author/authors, the book title/titles and a reference/references to the passages you disagree with?




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      2. Re: “people who sell books and advice not to eat grains are bad”.

        Dr Greger sells a book, Dr Esselstyn sells books and they aren’t ‘bad’ so I guess what you really want to say is that,
        in your opinion, people who advice against eating grains are bad.




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      3. payoung,

        I am currently under treatment foe a diagnosed Leaky Gut (LG).
        I have consulted, on the matter, with an experienced M.D, read the opinions/case studies of several other M.D’s/experienced health profeessionals and I am working my way through a first reading of well over 10000 papers that have been published in peer reviewed journals but I am not as certain about it all as you are.
        I just don’t find the evidence conclusive or a lot of common ground amongst the various authors.

        As you have,”personal and professional” experience I would like to have a discussion with you regarding the details of LG and the pros and cons of the ‘published’ protocols.

        Re: ” sugar is a risk factor for LG”

        I don’t find the scientific literature is replete with evidence against sugar.
        Yes, there is a little bit of science lined up against Fructose but I haven’t checked the fine-print to see whether or not it is good science?

        What kind of Sacccharide (sugar) are you talking about?
        Common sense tells me that people who eat a high carb diet are eating a lot of Glucose (as carbs are chewed in the mouth they immediately start to get broken down into Glucose).
        So, by your logic people who eat a lot of grains, especially refined grains, are at risk of developing LG?

        Re: “gluten doesn’t contribute to LG except in people who have Celiac Disease”.

        This is a very contentious point with the science coming sown on both sides.

        Here is an example that comes to the conclusion that Wheat protein (Gliadin) triggers Zonulin release which opens the tight junctions in the intestinal wall and it does this for everyone (Celiacs, recovered celiacs, non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity [ NCGS] and the control group).

        Note that I am cautious as it only has a very small number of participants in the trial, however, I have come across other similar examples before (in vitro epithelial cell, or Caco-2 cell, responses to Gliadin I think).

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25734566

        Nutrients. 2015 Feb 27;7(3):1565-76. doi: 10.3390/nu7031565.
        Effect of gliadin on permeability of intestinal biopsy explants from celiac disease patients and patients with non-celiac gluten sensitivity.
        Hollon J1, Puppa EL2, Greenwald B3, Goldberg E4, Guerrerio A5, Fasano A6.
        Author information

        1Department of Pediatric Gastroenterology, Naval Medical Center Portsmouth, 620 John Paul Jones Circle, Portsmouth, VA 23708, USA. justin.hollon@med.navy.mil.
        2University of Maryland School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21201, USA. eleonard@peds.umaryland.edu.
        3Division of Gastroenterology and Hepatology, University of Maryland School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21201, USA. bgreenwa@medicine.umaryland.edu.
        4Division of Gastroenterology and Hepatology, University of Maryland School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21201, USA. egoldber@medicine.umaryland.edu.
        5Division of Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21205, USA. aguerrerio@jhmi.edu.
        6Center for Celiac Research, Massachusetts General Hospital and Division of Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition, Massachusetts General Hospital for Children, Boston, MA 02114, USA. afasano@partners.org

        Abstract
        BACKGROUND:
        Intestinal exposure to gliadin leads to zonulin upregulation and consequent disassembly of intercellular tight junctions and increased intestinal permeability. We aimed to study response to gliadin exposure, in terms of barrier function and cytokine secretion, using intestinal biopsies obtained from four groups: celiac patients with active disease (ACD), celiac patients in remission (RCD), non-celiac patients with gluten sensitivity (GS) and non-celiac controls (NC).
        METHODS:
        Ex-vivo human duodenal biopsies were mounted in microsnapwells and luminally incubated with either gliadin or media alone. Changes in transepithelial electrical resistance were monitored over 120 min. Media was subsequently collected and cytokines quantified.
        RESULTS:
        Intestinal explants from all groups (ACD (n = 6), RCD (n = 6), GS (n = 6), and NC (n = 5)) demonstrated a greater increase in permeability when exposed to gliadin vs. media alone. The increase in permeability in the ACD group was greater than in the RCD and NC groups. There was a greater increase in permeability in the GS group compared to the RCD group. There was no difference in permeability between the ACD and GS groups, between the RCD and NC groups, or between the NC and GS groups. IL-10 was significantly greater in the media of the NC group compared to the RCD and GS groups.
        CONCLUSIONS:
        Increased intestinal permeability after gliadin exposure occurs in all individuals. Following gliadin exposure, both patients with gluten sensitivity and those with active celiac disease demonstrate a greater increase in intestinal permeability than celiacs in disease remission. A higher concentration of IL-10 was measured in the media exposed to control explants compared to celiac disease in remission or gluten sensitivity.

        Re: “oats have no impact on Gastro-intestinal disorders”

        I’m not certain about that one either.
        From recall I think around 10-20% of NCGS/Celiacs react to oats.

        If you would like to see some more of the science I will be posting additional examples, elsewhere in this topic, soon.




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    2. Hi Juliet,

      Do you want to prevent Leaky Gut (LG) or cure LG i.e. do you have a diagnosis for LG (a.k.a intestinal permeability)?
      Are you a Vegetarian, or transitioning to a Vegetarian diet or do you include animal products in your diet?

      What is your level of experience with nutrition or dieting?




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  22. What about puffed grains (i.e. rice cakes, corn cakes)…
    Probably not as good as in its unprocessed form, but are they harmful, harmless, or helpful?




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    1. Hi Sunshine,

      Re: “What about rice cakes and corn cakes?”

      There is no absolutely correct answer.
      It depends on your experience and objectives.
      If you are following Dr Gregers recommendations then yes, they are O.K, provided they are based on whole brown rice et. c and contain the fiber, as they are minimally processed.
      As a rule of thumb it is best to avoid grain cakes that contain anything besides the whole grain and perhaps some salt, if you eat salt.

      My opinion:

      – the do not form part of my staple diet but diets are inconvenient and grain cakes are handy when you need something for a kids lunchbox or for a quick snack;

      – read the label carefully and avoid additives and extra ingredients (flavouring, oils et. c)

      – we need some carbs. No carbs is not healthy, or sustainable, so we have to chose something from amongst the grains and rice is the least allergenic of all the grains;

      – the secret to grains is to chew them to a paste first;

      – best eaten with some salad veges (great for kids if u can get them to eat them with a carrot or celery stick);

      – not too many (snacks only) especially if u are a vegetarian (if so u need legumes and cooked whole grains, eaten with veges/salad) as your staple;

      – if I am in the mood for a sweet treat, occasionally I have a couple with a nut butter, mixed with a little honey, spread on them (that’s better than a doughnut :-) )

      – I prefer thin cakes to thick (it keeps my ratio of salad/carbs up)

      – be careful as some crackers, GF biscuits and GF cakes are fibreless and cause constipation.




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    2. Sunshine: I’m not sure it is quite that simple. For example, I would say that corn cakes are healthier than plenty of other foods. But in terms of looking at whole grains, puffed grains are at the bottom of the list, suffering from lack of good nutrition found in relatively unprocessed intact grains and from having a bad effect on blood sugar. Brenda Davis, RD is well respected and even done a guest blog post here on NutritionFacts. The following 12 minute video from Brenda addresses your question: The Whole Grain Heirarchy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkFJZUIUeEA What do you think?
      .
      Having said all that, I’m a fan of rice cakes from a taste perspective. I often love putting dips on rice cakes more than using traditional crackers. So, while I don’t fool myself that they are all that healthy, I still eat them from time to time. (Just sharing to provide some perspective.)




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      1. +1 from me.

        They are the fast food of a health food diet.
        Convenient and portable – good for a quick, snack or in the lunchbox, but not part of a staple diet (eat them in moderation).
        Occasionally I feel like a sweet treat, and if the baking hasn’t been done, then some nut butter mixed with a little honey spread on a couple does the job.
        Best eaten with some salad though (good in the lunchbox with carrot sticks or celery sticks or with avocado).

        I always read the label to make sure they contain nothing extra besides the whole grain and some salt (sea salt is better (no added oils or flavourings and make sure the fibre is in there).
        Not rice crackers though (some brands cause constipation).




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      2. Thanks Thea.
        Nice to hear, we all have a soft spot for it. Even if it is probably the least healthiest foods we eat…
        So the consensus seems that puffed grains is not harmless and even leans towards harmful (i.e. negative blood sugar levels), but of course in moderation that is mitigated.

        My follow-up question:
        How negative is the effect of puffed grains on blood sugar levels compared to non-whole grains such as fruit, dried fruit, chocolate, coffee?




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        1. Sunshine: I don’t know the answer to your follow up question off the top of my head. You should be able to find tables out there where you can look at the glycemic index of common foods. That would be the way to answer your question.
          .
          For myself, I don’t consider that a helpful exercise. For example, chocolate has so much fat, it is not likely (my guess) to affect glycemic index so much, but do you really want to compare chocolate to a puffed grain? Chocolate is high in saturate fat and contains actual table sugar. There are so many factors to consider when evaluating the healthfulness of a food. The glycemic index is just one factor, and it’s not one I personally give too much weight to.

          .
          What I like about the video above is that it discusses 2 factors: both glycemic index and nutritional content. And since it is comparing food in the same family (whole grains), I think it is generally helpful framework for comparing the different foods discussed. But I personally wouldn’t apply that thinking to other food groups, ignoring the general body of evidence we have about those foods. There is a lot of information on NutritionFacts about fruits, chocolate and coffee that could help you evaluate those foods.
          .
          That’s just my take on it. Good luck.




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        2. Sunshine,

          Sydney University is one of the homes of the Glycemic Index and they provide a searchable database.
          Unfortunately they don’t make it easy, because they have proprietary rights and are orientated to sell products/services. Consequently, if you search for ‘rice’ you get 341 hits but you have to go through them page by page (no download allowed).

          http://www.glycemicindex.com/index.php

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index

          The index is highly correlated to insulin levels in the blood.
          The apparent anomalies in the index come about because Fructose doesn’t cause an insulin response, and hence food containing Fructose, or Sucrose (which is 50% Fructose) does not spike the GI (insulin) as much as Glucose, or Glucose producing foods e.g. grains.

          Another anomaly is that protein (amino acids) also produce an insulin response but the GI does not measure, or account for, foods containing protein.

          Note that if you are a diabetic I have no knowledge in this area.
          Some of the diabetic support groups are a better source of ‘blood sugar’ information/dieting than Nutrition Facts




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        3. Rice cakes are generally classified as Gluten free.
          As a rule of thumb Gluten free foods, as they are supplied on the supermarket shelves, are not what I regard as healthy e.g. most of them contain sweeteners, lack fibre and contain food additives with unknown health effects (xanthanan gum is one additive that has been reported in this forum as causing problems).

          Rice cakes are the best of the GF bunch.




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        4. Sunshine,

          Re: “So the consensus seems that puffed grains is not harmless and even leans towards harmful (i.e. negative blood sugar levels), but of course in moderation that is mitigated.”

          No, that wasn’t the consensus view.
          I said that it depends on the person and their situation.
          Sorry if my answer didn’t present that concept clearly.
          I’m emphasising this point because a lot of ‘dieting’ comes down to the psychology and if we don’t start with the correct psychological framework we end up obsessing over food and in the long term we are susceptible to developing food hang-ups.

          It all depends on where we are now and where we would like to go, in the short term (longer term objectives can just be set to hover in the background).

          Examples:

          1) For someone who is on the Standard Western Diet, who eats, say, a half dozen doughnuts every day for morning tea, then substituting the doughnuts with rice cakes/sesame paste/a little honey is a big achievement, providing they can keep that up. Later, they might cut down from 6 rice cakes to 3. It is hard enough for them to do that without worrying them about whether there is oil or flavouring in the rice cakes.
          So for those people rice cakes are healthy.

          2) If you have a child, who has to be Gluten Free, then Rice Cakes are ‘healthy’.
          Given their age, attention span and the peer pressure they are submitted to then it’s a good thing if you can put Rice Cakes in their lunchbox and send them to school in the normal way (hopefully they don’t do what my kids did and swap them for junk food).

          3) If you are on a Paleo diet then they are ‘unhealthy’ by their recommendation.

          So, if you are following Dr Greger’s recommendations then I believe they are generally considered healthy.
          The best way to moderate all dietary extremes is to eat in moderation and eat foods together (rice cakes go with salads) and don’t chop and change all over the place (make small gradual changes to your diet and wait to see how that impacts on your body).

          It appears that you are interested in Dr Greger’s guidelines and that either a WFPB dieter, or transitioning towards that, in which case, Thea is a very good guide for you.

          Everyone on a diet has their food lists, with green, orange and red zones whether those lists are formal or informal.
          I may have mislead you with my personal comments because for me, in order to meet my short term objective (to cure Leaky Gut) Rice Cakes are in my orange zone.
          In order to maintain psychological balance I allow myself to eat somethings from my orange zone occasionally but that means occasionally … for me the trick is to keep the orange food portions down and not to go for a re-run in the same week but please note I am on a very tight diet and others don’t need to go that far :-)

          Example of a holistic approach to diet (using myself as the example):

          On a Sunday afternoon, when I get home from work, I might sit down with my wife and have a small treat (coffee and a slice of rice bubble/date/coconut oil slice). I talk to her about my diet or things that are on her mind. I get to have a sweet treat while relieving some psychological pressure off me and taking some of the anti-social pressure off my wife. I prise her foe the fine slice and thank her sincerely for baking it for me (she needs to be included in my diet more than I need the Puffed Rice).

          So, it all comes down to you and your particular situation …everyone is different and we all deserve a personalised diet.

          P.S

          Rice Cakes, without additives are almost identical to cooked brown rice.
          IMO the main difference, for the majority, is producer risk i.e. some producers might slip something extra in, to promote shelf life, texture or taste et. c without disclosing it on the label e.g. I just re-introduced dairy to my diet, via Kefir. The label says ‘no added sugar’ but as a sugar free dieter I know when even the tiniest amount of sweetener has been added. I can almost tell if it is table sugar or a sugar alcohol .




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        5. The Glycemic Index (GI) is highly correlated to the Insulin Index (the insulin blood level as a response to eating any particular food) as mentioned in the Wikipedia article on the GI.
          The exception is high protein and high fat/refined sugar foods.
          There is no extensive list of the Insulin Index of foods, as there is for the GI, because the research team that produced the largest GI list available also produced the largest Insulin Index table available (based on the high correlation between the two they decided not to conduct further analysis of the Insulin Index of all of the foods).

          The GI list and the Insulin Index list were both developed by Susanne HA Holt, Janette C Brand Miller, and Peter Petocz of Sydney University, Australia.

          Links to the one and only Insulin Index study.

          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9356547/

          http://s3.amazonaws.com/drritamarie/materials/Resources/InsulinIndexOfFoods-Holt-Miller-Petocz-AmJClinNutr-1997.pdf




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  23. Fiber protects colonic mucosa

    The November 17, 2016 issue of Cell reported the finding of an international team of researchers of a protective effect for fiber against the ability of pathogenic microorganisms to penetrate and infect the walls of the colon.

    Eric Martens, PhD, and colleagues examined the effect of dietary fiber in mice lacking gut microbes. The animals were implanted with 14 normal human gastrointestinal bacteria and given diets that contained varying amounts of fiber or no fiber. Some of the mice received the bacterium Citrobacter rodentium, which, similar to E. Coli, causes infections associated with inflammation and diarrhea.

    Animals that received Citrobacter rodentium in addition to a diet consisting of 15% fiber from grains and plants retained thick colonic mucus that didn’t permit infection to take hold, but in mice that received a fiber-free diet, the microbes began to consume the colonic mucus barrier and the animals showed signs of illness. Bacteria that thrived in mice that consumed low and no fiber diets were those capable of manufacturing enzymes able to break down glycoproteins that form the mucus barrier. This effect was observed even with occasional fiber deprivation.

    “The lesson we’re learning from studying the interaction of fiber, gut microbes and the intestinal barrier system is that if you don’t feed them, they can eat you,” stated Dr Martens, who is an associate professor of microbiology at the University of Michigan Medical School. “While this work was in mice, the take-home message from this work for humans amplifies everything that doctors and nutritionists have been telling us for decades: Eat a lot of fiber from diverse natural sources. Your diet directly influences your microbiota, and from there it may influence the status of your gut’s mucus layer and tendency toward disease.”




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  24. Fiber protects colonic mucosa

    The November 17, 2016 issue of Cell reported the finding of an international team of researchers of a protective effect for fiber against the ability of pathogenic microorganisms to penetrate and infect the walls of the colon.

    Eric Martens, PhD, and colleagues examined the effect of dietary fiber in mice lacking gut microbes. The animals were implanted with 14 normal human gastrointestinal bacteria and given diets that contained varying amounts of fiber or no fiber. Some of the mice received the bacterium Citrobacter rodentium, which, similar to E. Coli, causes infections associated with inflammation and diarrhea.

    Animals that received Citrobacter rodentium in addition to a diet consisting of 15% fiber from grains and plants retained thick colonic mucus that didn’t permit infection to take hold, but in mice that received a fiber-free diet, the microbes began to consume the colonic mucus barrier and the animals showed signs of illness. Bacteria that thrived in mice that consumed low and no fiber diets were those capable of manufacturing enzymes able to break down glycoproteins that form the mucus barrier. This effect was observed even with occasional fiber deprivation.

    “The lesson we’re learning from studying the interaction of fiber, gut microbes and the intestinal barrier system is that if you don’t feed them, they can eat you,” stated Dr Martens, who is an associate professor of microbiology at the University of Michigan Medical School. “While this work was in mice, the take-home message from this work for humans amplifies everything that doctors and nutritionists have been telling us for decades: Eat a lot of fiber from diverse natural sources. Your diet directly influences your microbiota, and from there it may influence the status of your gut’s mucus layer and tendency toward disease.”




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    1. superb find with incredible implications, baggman.

      no wonder everyone on the SAD diet is ill in one way or another.

      my ulcerative colitis, initially diagnosed by colonoscopy, was gone after my last (ever) colonoscopy probably about 2 years after going WFPB.

      no hint of it at all and just a look of bewilderment by the GI Doc at the followup appt.




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      1. Glad you found it of value. Don’t know why the image disappeared. It was actually from a different but related article on the Cell site, and I thought a good representation of the content. My brother had UC for a while, colonoscopies twice a year, but has been free from the disease for years now.




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    2. Nice work Baggman,

      In the past some members opined that selective breeding has reduced the amount of fibre in our produce and hence we cant achieve more than 50g of fiber per day. I recently used a calorie/fibre ratio, from the USDA standard reference database, to calculate the theoretical fibre intake for my calorie needs (2500 kcal/day). I found that if I ate 100% plant whole foods I would easily exceed 100g fibre/day.
      Of course at that level you do start going to the toilet twice a day so no need for the math :-)

      Here’s another similar paper from the same issue of Cell

      http://www.docin.com/p-1788135321.html




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      1. Just a link, wasn’t really work, glad you found it useful. Thanks for posting the link, as Cell is a pay site for professionals. I think the ceiling on fiber is so high, especially if you’re getting it from a diverse variety, that if we did reach it, our bodies would tell us. In other words, the more the better, and if you should get too much, you’ll know. Yes, going twice, or even three times a day while not typical, is probably optimal. Only problem with that, is traveling.




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        1. Re: the upper limit for fibre

          I think the regulators/nutritionists got the basics right with the emphasis on our calorie needs and the breakdown of our dietary inputs relative to calories:

          – nutrient density == calories/nutrients;
          – fibre density == calories/fibre.

          Our calorie sets the upper limit for our nutrient and fibre intake.
          There is no way around the fact our body weight, and changes in our body weight (BMI) is a simple metric that we should use to regulate our calorie intake.
          I like simplicity and that has a simplicity and symmetry that appeals to me.

          By comparison to, say, a Paleo or Vegetarian diet, a high fibre diet would cut out things like processed oils, refined foods/grains legumes, alternative milks, tofu?, fruit and vege juices, smoothies? et. c
          Of course animal products contain no fibre so the Vegetarians have the upper hand for quantity and diversity of fibre.
          I have started the process of looking for analysis on the different types of fibre, in each type of food, and also what fibres are beneficial for producing different metabolites in the gut. This is not a popular topic for research and so far I have only found a small amount of data (sorry I can’t post it just now as I want to post some more of the science on Leaky Gut first).

          The fibre probably explains why Dr Grundy (Diet Evolution) achieved similar ‘heart reversal’ results to Dr Caldwell Esselstyn, whilst including animal products in his regime.

          Note that AFAIK Gundry has not conducted any clinical trials of his dietary protocol,l although he does have extensive clinical experience treating chronically ill and overweight people (I’m going by his anecdotal evidence only but he is an eminent Surgeon, inventor, author and researcher who has published over 100 papers in peer reviewed journals).
          At the same time, while Esselstyn did conduct clinical trials he didn’t include a control group or identify causality.

          P.S

          Apologies for the reference to meat eating.
          I understand that you are a Vegetarian for ethical reasons, however, as more people are interested in diet for health reasons, or because they are following Dr’s orders, we have to help them too; we cant just abandon them and leave them behind to fend for themselves.
          My tentative view, at the moment, is that Vegetarian diets, and diets that include animal products, can both be healthy provided they are high fibre/low refined and in the end it comes down to an ethical choice which way to go.
          Implementing Vegetarianism is a lot harder, in all ways, than implementing any other type of diet though.




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          1. No apology needed for me, I eat meat. Although with the exception of non fat Greek yogurt, I shun dairy. IDK if that’s weird, but it seems to work for me. The whole ethical animal debate is one I avoid though. I mean, it’s all over the map. People, not surprisingly, are content to pick and choose what’s ethical, and what isn’t, as long as it fits their lifestyles. That’s really all I want to say on the subject. I like the term WFPB, as it defines a diet, not a philosophy. Anyway, I think it’s about time we considered fiber not just a nutrient, but an essential nutrient. I’m sure you’ll agree.




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            1. Re: meat + fermented dairy only

              I don’t think that is a ‘weird’ combination, in fact there seems to be some momentum behind the trend to avoid dairy, except for the ferments.
              I’m off the dairy at the moment (Dr[‘s orders) but I intend trying out the dairy ferments in the future.
              I think they are a separate class, or sub-class, of food altogether. My interest is in re-introducing a gut friendly source of high readily absorbed Calcium (from Dr Ray Peat meat /grain et. c diets are high in Phosphorous which needs to be balanced by high Calcium …. at the moment I’m supplementing Ca).
              Of course the concern is whether the pathogens in some milk flows through to the ferments.
              I think that is unlikely but AFAIK there is no science available on this (not that I have to worry as I life in a nation where a national program eradicated Bovine Leukemia Virus).
              I’m yet to read Dr Greger’s posts on the risk factors in meat/animal products so I’m going to pay close attention to those in the future. I believe they are manageable for those who elect to eat them, albeit with restrictions e.g. wild caught fish, of certain species, that goes into the freezer on-board the catch vessel is a different cup of tea to supermarket meat or a fast food hamburger.

              Re: ethics

              I find that life is an ethical journey.
              The common understanding, and application, of ethics is nothing like living ethically (the common man just rehashes old rules to suit themselves, as you said).
              Ethical guidelines were not set in stone forever, 2000 yrs ago, but rather they are dynamic.
              How an individual manages the ethical dilemmas that confront us on a daily basis is a measure of the man (as in MANKIND).

              Re: fiber

              I was rummaging around, in the nutritional toolbox, looking for something in particular and came up with fibre instead. I’m going to dig in asap but I don’t expect to find out anything earth shattering.
              I think it’s pretty simple, eat plenty and nature will take care of the rest.

              Here’s a link to one doc I found:

              Rome Foundation Working Group
              Am J Gastroenterol 2013; 108:718–727; doi:10.1038/ajg.2013.63; published online 2 April 2013

              Fiber and Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders

              Shanti Eswaran MD1, Jane Muir PhD2 and William D Chey MD, AGAF, FACG, FACP1
              1Division of Gastroenterology, University of Michigan Health System, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
              2Monash University, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
              Correspondence: William D. Chey, MD, AGAF, FACG, FACP, Division of Gastroenterology, University of Michigan Health System, 3912 Taubman Center, SPC 5362, Ann Arbor, Michigan 48109-5362, USA. E-mail: wchey@umich.edu

              http://www.nature.com/ajg/journal/v108/n5/full/ajg201363a.html

              PDF here

              http://www.nature.com/ajg/journal/v108/n5/pdf/ajg201363a.pdf

              I do have some observations and questions of interest on my mental checklist:

              – what’s the functional difference between endogenous and exogenous (supplemental) fibre?
              – is excessive flatulence (noxious gases and physical stress) harmful to the epithelium?
              – the benefits of fibre ‘mopping up’ or interacting with bile secretion appears to be understated by many commentators,
              – no one has anything to say about Formic Acid, in SCFA gut production. Why not?
              – grain fibre/insoluble provides high bulk. Frequency of stool passage can be increased or decreased in proportion to insoluble fibre input (fruit/vege and possibly other food fibres don’t seem to have the same effect);
              – dry fibres, like Psyllium/Wheat bran et. c may be detrimental by having a scratching effect on the gut lining;
              – there is a little bit of science that has measured relative proportions of the SCFA’s as the type of fibre input is varied (I’m interested in this because at the moment I want more Butyrate);
              – some nuts, especially coconut fibre, cause constipation (what’s going on there)?
              – chewing my food well is part of my current regime. I have noticed that you just can’t chew low fibre foods, or some foods that do contain fibre (my assumption is that if, say, a fruit e.g Casaba melon, contains a lot of soluble fibre it will have a fluid mouth feel and slide right down. By comparison the skin of the Casaba is very tough and few millimetres of fruit that is close to the skin is very crunchy and takes a lot of chewing == insoluble fibre?

              Fiber and Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders

              Shanti

              Eswaran
              ,
              MD

              1

              ,

              Jane

              Muir
              ,
              PhD

              2

              and

              William D.

              Chey
              ,
              MD, AGAF, FACG, FACP

              1

              Despite years of advising patients to alter their dietary and supplementary fi ber intake, the evidence surrounding the use of fi ber for functional bowel disease is limited. This paper outlines the organization of fi ber types and highlights the importance of assessing the fermentation characteristics of each fi ber type when choosing a suitable strategy for patients. Fiber undergoes partial or total fermentation in the distal small bowel and colon leading to the production of short-chain fatty acids and gas, thereby affecting gastrointestinal function and sensation. When fi ber is recommended for functional bowel disease, use of a soluble supplement such as ispaghula / psyllium is best supported by the available evidence. Even when used judiciously, fi ber can exacerbate abdominal distension, fl atulence, constipation, and diarrhea.

              Am J Gastroenterol 2013; 108:718–727; doi: 10.1038/ajg.2013.63; published online 2 April 2013

              Fiber and Functional Gastrointestinal Disorders

              Shanti

              Eswaran
              ,
              MD

              1

              ,

              Jane

              Muir
              ,
              PhD

              2

              and

              William D.

              Chey
              ,
              MD, AGAF, FACG, FACP

              1

              Despite years of advising patients to alter their dietary and supplementary fi ber intake, the evidence surrounding the use of fi ber for functional bowel disease is limited. This paper outlines the organization of fi ber types and highlights the importance of assessing the fermentation characteristics of each fi ber type when choosing a suitable strategy for patients. Fiber undergoes partial or total fermentation in the distal small bowel and colon leading to the production of short-chain fatty acids and gas, thereby affecting gastrointestinal function and sensation. When fi ber is recommended for functional bowel disease, use of a soluble supplement such as ispaghula / psyllium is best supported by the available evidence. Even when used judiciously, fi ber can exacerbate abdominal distension, fl atulence, constipation, and diarrhea.

              Am J Gastroenterol 2013; 108:718–727; doi: 10.1038/ajg.2013.63; published online 2 April 2013




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  25. No one has lived 117 years, on a diet of two raw eggs a day……..until now.

    Just kidding … it wasn’t the eggs, or the lack of fruit and veges, it was the lack of stress (she got rid of her husband early on)!

    “Emma Morano is a walking wonder. When she was born on November 29, 1899, the world was in a strange situation. It was only the beginning of the Second Boer War then.
    The Italian lady was the “oldest person in the world,” and the only human today who has seen three centuries – the nineteenth, twentieth and twenty-first. On Tuesday (30/11/2016), Morano became 117.

    She lives by herself in a one-room apartment in Verbania (Italy). She celebrated her iconic birthday in May, when another centenarian, an American, Susannah Mushatt Jones, died at 116 years”, according to CBS News.

    http://www.elitereaders.com/worlds-oldest-living-person-117/

    (apologies for the horrendous website but its worth it for the cute baby photo).

    According to her doctor she is known to eat the same thing day in and day out.

    Is it possible that changing our diet changes the gut microbiome and each time we do this our gut is stressed by bacterial die-off (== LipoPolySaccharides)?
    LPS from die-off might cause an inflammatory response that disrupts our gut epithelium via cytokine signalling/Macrophage triggering production of Reactive Nitrate Species. Of course the same mechanism could be triggered by any food that is inflammatory (an allergenic) on an individual basis.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17965057

    Disruption of gastric barrier function by luminal nitrosative stress: a potential chemical insult to the human gastro-oesophageal junction.
    Ara N1, Iijima K, Asanuma K, Yoshitake J, Ohara S, Shimosegawa T, Yoshimura T.
    Author information

    Abstract
    OBJECTIVE:
    The human gastro-oesophageal junction is exposed to abundant amounts of luminal reactive nitrogen oxide species (RNOS) derived from the enterosalivary re-circulation of dietary nitrate. The aim of this study is to investigate the direct effects of luminal RNOS on the adjacent gastric barrier function using an ex vivo chamber model.
    METHODS:
    A chamber model in which the rat gastric mucosal membrane was mounted between the two halves of a chamber was designed to simulate the microenvironment of the lumen and the adjacent mucosa of the gastro-oesophageal junction. On the mucosal side of the chamber, RNOS were generated by the acidification of physiological concentrations of sodium nitrite. The epithelial barrier function was evaluated by electrophysiological transmembrane resistance, and membrane permeability with [3H]mannitol flux. The expression of occludin was evaluated by immunohistochemistry and immunoblotting. Dinitrosyl dithiolato iron complex (DNIC) was also measured by means of electron paramagnetic resonance spectroscopy to confirm the diffusion of RNOS from the mucosal lumen into the mounted mucosa.
    RESULTS:
    The administration of acidified nitrite to the mucosal lumen caused both a decrease in transmembrane resistance and an increase in epithelial permeability, suggesting a disturbance of the gastric barrier function. These changes were accompanied by a derangement of the expression of occludin. The diffusion of luminal RNOS into the mounted membrane was confirmed by showing the generation of DNIC within the tissue.
    CONCLUSIONS:
    Simulating the microenvironment of the human gastro-oesophageal junction, this study demonstrated that RNOS generated luminally at the human gastro-oesophageal junction can derange the barrier function of the adjacent tissue by disrupting the tight junction.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_nitrogen_species

    [quote]

    Reactive nitrogen species (RNS) are a family of antimicrobial molecules derived from nitric oxide (·NO) and superoxide (O2·−) produced via the enzymatic activity of inducible nitric oxide synthase 2 (NOS2) and NADPH oxidase respectively. NOS2 is expressed primarily in macrophages after induction by cytokines and microbial products, notably interferon-gamma (IFN-γ) and lipopolysaccharide (LPS).[2]
    Reactive nitrogen species act together with reactive oxygen species (ROS) to damage cells, causing nitrosative stress.

    [unquote]

    P.S it was really the genetics …. she comes from a long-lived family!




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  26. Thea,

    Re: your warning, “As for future posts that berate someone for calling out bad sources of information, consider yourself warned.”

    Did you watch the Douillard video interview and read his book, “Eat Wheat” before you nominated yourself and Tom Goff as the moral arbiters of what constitutes a bad source of information?

    Douillard is an advocate for eating grains, including wheat.
    On balance, I don’t consider that book to be a source of bad information (it does contain over 600 references to enable readers to check the facts for themselves.
    He is right on some things and wrong on others but that can be said of everyone.

    Given that this site prides itself on being evidence based I would have thought the NF governance would ensure objective, fair and balanced moderation, and ditto for any criticism of anyone’s work, including those not resident on this site.
    I don’t have a problem with criticism.
    Lets get stuck into anyone and anything but it needs to be done in a professional way e.g. reference a title/page number, give a verbatim quote and then critique their sources and logic, and not just an emotional rant.




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    1. i’m not for censorship of any kind but think it’s time to BAN RADA.

      i’m sick of reading the attacks, insults and disrespect s/he gives posters here on a daily basis.

      the recent attack on Tom should be enough for the ban let alone the last salvo of insults:

      {Did you watch the Douillard video….. before you nominated yourself and Tom Goff as the moral arbiters….}

      it’s hour after hour, day after day, week after week of insults, aggressiveness, disrespect and continual negativism and it’s really getting old.

      it doesn’t matter what info is presented, rada argues it to the n’th degree.

      you say it’s night, s/he says it’s day every single time.

      s/he isn’t just a devil’s advocate who REALLY want’s to learn something and is delving in further into the subject, but is just an argumenter, period.

      s/he needs to go to a chatboard site that s/he agrees with instead of being here on a board that s/he obviously DISagrees with, continually disrupting the positive input of everyone trying to improve themselves.

      it puts a negative pall on the entire site.

      I, FOR ONE, AM SICK OF IT.

      donald.

      .




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      1. AZ DONALD: We have a lot of tolerance here for various types of posts. I would not say that rada has quite crossed the line yet into being banned. (Though I agree that with his recent posts, he is coming pretty close…)
        .
        I also need to make plain that we don’t do moderation by popular vote here. I don’t want to see people start to do posts like, “Time to ban Jane!” As I have said often, please leave the moderating to the moderators.
        .
        That said, there are times when we need to ban someone. Before that can happen, a case has to be made for a ban, and multiple moderators or staff at NutritionFacts have to agree before someone can be banned. We take all sorts of information into account when making such a decision. Flags (for posts which break the posting rules) and down votes (for posts which do not add to the discussion) are great ways for participants to give feedback on another poster. (Other good feedback is using up-votes and positive comments for singling out especially helpful people!)
        .
        In addition, we pay attention to posts that might say something like, “This is the 12th time in as many days that you have repeated claims that have already been addressed.” Or “Once again, you are making claims and not backing it up with any evidence.” Those types of posts are legitimate feedback to the poster and can be part of helping the moderators make a banning decision.
        .
        HOWEVER, AZ DONALD, your post is not along the lines of feedback that I consider healthy and helpful. I’m struggling with what to do with your post above. It could be argued that your post goes over the line and breaks our posting rules. Your post is a gray area for me. If your post stays as-is, I may have to delete it. You may want to review our posting rules, which you can find by clicking the green Comment Etiquette button at the top of the comments area. Before I make any decisions, I wanted to give you this reply so that you (and anyone reading this) have some good feedback on the processes and expectations for the forum.




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        1. i think that many agree with me and feel that rada’s insults and personal attacks are more serious than my pointing out some of them and expressing myself {{Did you watch the Douillard video….. before you nominated yourself and Tom Goff as the moral arbiters….} …totally uncalled for.

          my criticism was constructive to this board as a whole as it has turned more argumentative and insulting than informative lately and i feel it should be addressed as it’s gone over the line several times now.

          i’ll solve your dilemma with my initial post and delete it so you don’t have to struggle with your decision anymore.

          donald.

          .




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          1. AZ Donald,

            The moderators have an unenviable task weighing up’ the right to express ourselves’ against the ‘greater good’. It’s a very fine line and there is no 100% correct solution, so let’s give them some room to move.
            I didn’t take offence to your ‘feedback’.
            The only issue is that once a personal criticism has been posted others might think it is acceptable if it is not addressed by the moderators and any forum soon degenerates once personal attacks are tolerated.

            I can see it from your point of view.
            Science is continually evolving, different commentators can come to different conclusions whilst referencing the same science and there is so much science out there that any commentator can inadvertently overlook some of it. So, there is a continual and perpetual debate going on within ‘evidence based nutrition’.
            I understand that some, or perhaps many, in the forum don’t like that or perhaps don’t like my commentary on it.

            I read a lot of posts, on this forum, that I like or that I learn a lot from.
            I don’t post to tell people that; I only post when I think something is wrong, has been overlooked or there is some additional science available.
            I also post if I have a differing opinion because in my experience science doesn’t provide us with all of the answers we need (I have had a lot of success with alternative health approaches and trial and error).
            I feel guilty if I withhold information because others might need it and suffer without it.

            I do post contrary opinion because, IMO, if we want to be Vegetarians we should now everything about it, including the pitfalls, if we want to do it in the best possible way.
            I think we should also learn from the mistakes made by other groups and by Vegetarians of a previous era, like Chet Atkins, former Vegetarian and Nutritional Hygienist, who, AFAIK, is still going and writing his ‘newsletter’ at 95+? years of age.

            chet day dot com

            http://www.chetday.com/articlemenu.html

            F.Y.I

            I am not proselytising for or against any group, or individual (Paleo, Vegan et. c).
            I am aggressively pursuing the truth because my health depends on it.

            If you cant beat them join them; if you have a contrary point of view or additional information please post it.




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            1. I agree with most of your post but take exception to the line insinuating that I was making personal criticisms. “…once a personal criticism has been posted others…”

              it was in my ORIGINAL post about you that I was complaining that YOU were the one making personal attacks on OTHERS and I included citations to validate it.

              I don’t know why you would bring up this topic again after 5 days, especially since I deleted my original post to ease Thea’s dilemma about my statement.

              I think it would have been best to let this topic die out after you replied to me that “I’ve taken note of your point of view” and a few minutes later told Thea that “I have taken note of your statements on policy and find them fair” instead of continuing this topic on further.

              donald.




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  27. Dr.Greger, I tried to adhere to your suggestions, but not all of them as I’m finding contradictory scientifically proven information, such
    as your position on proteins and carbs. Your suggestion is to eat more carbs, sure too much of protein is bad, but…

    Gut Microbial Metabolism Drives Transformation of Msh2-Deficient Colon Epithelial Cells

    “When the researchers increased butyrate levels in the antibiotic-treated mice, cell proliferation and the number of tumors increased in the small intestines.”
    “…our findings suggest that a diet reduced in carbohydrates as well as alterations in the intestinal microbial community could be beneficial to those individuals that are genetically predisposed to colorectal cancer,”

    http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2014.04.051




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    1. Hi Sam,

      I have been interested in the contrary idea that our ‘commensal’ microbes aren’t all ‘good news’.
      I first picked up on the idea from Dr Ray Peat (PhD) who considers that they produce exotoxins that are deleterious to our health (I think he considers that there are some benefits and some detriments to the relationship).
      I also noticed that ‘organic’ chickens are continuously feed vinegar (acetic acid) in their drinking water and this suppresses their gut bugs (apparently they live healthier lives like that).
      Yours is the first direct scientific evidence I have seen that establishes a negative effect from our microbial metabolites so thanks for that.
      it’s a solid piece of science too!
      Of course we cant be sure how it plays out in humans and there are a lot of studies that conclude that ‘grain’ based diets reduce the risk of getting colon cancer and even that butyrate is colon cancer protective.
      They do say, in the MSH-2 deficient study, you referenced, that it is a paradox; butyrate stimulates epithelial growth and colon cancer in a dose dependent way?
      I cant see anyway to control butyrate dose rates even if we want to … I mean trying to control carb input to a precise level wouldn’t be an exact science and I have read elsewhere that it depends on the resistant starch content, which isn’t a known quantity in any food we eat.

      I found something else that might also have a bearing on mutation of the gut epithelium.

      “Handbook of Plant Lectins: Properties and Biomedical Applications 1st Edition “,
      by Els. J. M. Van Damme (Author), Willy J. Peumans (Author), Arpad Pusztai (Author), Susan Bardocz (Author).

      Chapter 2 – Effect of Lectins on Gut Bacteria.

      Lectins can agglutinate some resident bacteria of the digestive tract…. which will then be selectively removed ….. changing the bacterial flora in the gut …. and also interfere with potential adhesion sites for the bacteria.
      Lectins which are considered to be toxic are not deleterious per se …. most of their harmful effects are caused by interaction with gut bacteria.

      “These so-called ‘toxic’ lectins bind just as extensively to the epithelium and stimulate the growth of the small intestine in germ-free rats as they do in rats with a microflora. However. While the effects for the germ-free animals are slight, the consequences can be serious for conventional rats because these lectins can stimulate a selective bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine. This may be further exacerbated by increased endocytosis and systemic absorbtion of both the lectin and bacterial metabolites by the epithelial cells, and these toxins can then exert deleterious effects in the body, interfere with hormone balance and disturb normal metabolic reactions.”

      That explanation provides another mechanism whereby germ-free status and low carb diets could reduce colon cancer proliferation, in a dose dependent manner, provided the feed contained lectins in conjunction with the carbs.




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  28. Does anyone know anything about SIBO (small intestine bacterial overgrowth?) What to do for it, that is not Toxic, like antibiotics. Also, I am a metastatic breast cancer patient, so I try to eat only plant-based, mostly legumes and cruciferous veggies and the like, and those are the very things that seemingly contribute to the whole bacterial problem. I don’t know how to effectively treat the SIBO AND address my cancer concerns. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.




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