Should Women with Fibroids Avoid Soy?

Should Women with Fibroids Avoid Soy?
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Is soy harmful, harmless, or helpful when it comes to uterine fibroids?

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

About one in four women will eventually suffer from fibroids, most commonly manifesting as excessively heavy periods and pain or pressure. Why might you feel pressure? Because you may be carrying around 26 pounds of tumors in your uterus. Fibroids are the most common reason women get hysterectomies—having their uterus removed completely, a major surgery associated with disability and death. But, all surgery carries risk. The chances of dying within a month of surgery may only be about one in 1,200, which makes it among our safest surgeries—safer than getting your gallbladder removed, for example. But, of course, you lose the ability to bear children, and these surgeries cost billions of dollars a year. Yet, “[d]espite the high prevalence, significant [pain and suffering], and huge economic…impact…, relatively little is understood” about the cause and disease process that lead to fibroid tumors.

Avoiding atomic bomb blasts whenever you can is probably a good idea in terms of decreasing fibroids risk. But, what about more easily modifiable risk factors? Well, alcohol consumption is associated with increased risk—particularly beer. And, whenever you hear that, whenever you hear beer specifically, you think of the hormonal effects specific to beer—specifically the powerful phytoestrogen found in hops. Well, if that phytoestrogen is increasing fibroids risk, what about the phytoestrogens in soy?

Well, this was looked at in the Black Women’s Health Study. Fibroids are two to three times more prevalent among African-American women. So, they thought maybe dairy intake might be “contribut[ing] to the disparity,” given their higher levels of lactose intolerance. And, indeed, dairy consumption was associated with reduced risk. They figured it was the calcium content, or maybe the vitamin D. But perhaps the women were drinking soy milk instead, and that was increasing their risk? No. “Soy intake was [found to be] unrelated.” Same finding in a group of predominantly white women, though they did note a protective association with the amount of lignans flowing through their bodies. Lignans are another class of phytoestrogens found predominantly in flax seeds, but also throughout the plant kingdom. Hard to make any generalizations about the soy phytoestrogens, though, as soy consumption was rather low across the board. This research was done in Washington state.

If you go to Japan, where they have the highest per capita soy consumption in the world, you could get a bigger spread of intakes. The researchers had “previously found that soy…intake was inversely associated with the risk of hysterectomy”—meaning women who ate more soy had lower hysterectomy rates, suggesting a potentially protective effect of soy against uterine fibroids, since that’s the main reason women have their uterus removed. This would be consistent with in vitro studies that found that the main soy phytoestrogen seemed to inhibit fibroid tissue proliferation in a petri dish. But, when they specifically looked, “[t]here was no evidence of” a link to soy at all, protective or otherwise. The same was found in one study out of China. Fruit and vegetable intake was associated with significantly lower risk of fibroids, but soy food consumption was not.

But, a second study out of China, published the same year, found a significant association between soy milk intake and fibroids. That’s consistent with the three alarming case reports of women with symptomatic fibroids reporting “an unusually high intake of soy milk,” or “regularly consuming excessive amounts of soy,” or “extremely high intake[s] of soy…everyday” for decades. It’s hard to take these cases seriously when nowhere do they actually say how much they were consuming. The only quantitative mention was 40 grams of isoflavones, which roughly translates to 400 gallons of soy milk every day. That would be excessive, but also impossible.

The only way to know for sure is to put it to the test. Not just a population study or anecdotal reports, but randomize women to two years of soy phytoestrogens—the amount found in three to five cups of soy milk a day—and “no significant” effect on the frequency or growth of fibroids was found.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Noemí Jiménez via Unsplash. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video.

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

About one in four women will eventually suffer from fibroids, most commonly manifesting as excessively heavy periods and pain or pressure. Why might you feel pressure? Because you may be carrying around 26 pounds of tumors in your uterus. Fibroids are the most common reason women get hysterectomies—having their uterus removed completely, a major surgery associated with disability and death. But, all surgery carries risk. The chances of dying within a month of surgery may only be about one in 1,200, which makes it among our safest surgeries—safer than getting your gallbladder removed, for example. But, of course, you lose the ability to bear children, and these surgeries cost billions of dollars a year. Yet, “[d]espite the high prevalence, significant [pain and suffering], and huge economic…impact…, relatively little is understood” about the cause and disease process that lead to fibroid tumors.

Avoiding atomic bomb blasts whenever you can is probably a good idea in terms of decreasing fibroids risk. But, what about more easily modifiable risk factors? Well, alcohol consumption is associated with increased risk—particularly beer. And, whenever you hear that, whenever you hear beer specifically, you think of the hormonal effects specific to beer—specifically the powerful phytoestrogen found in hops. Well, if that phytoestrogen is increasing fibroids risk, what about the phytoestrogens in soy?

Well, this was looked at in the Black Women’s Health Study. Fibroids are two to three times more prevalent among African-American women. So, they thought maybe dairy intake might be “contribut[ing] to the disparity,” given their higher levels of lactose intolerance. And, indeed, dairy consumption was associated with reduced risk. They figured it was the calcium content, or maybe the vitamin D. But perhaps the women were drinking soy milk instead, and that was increasing their risk? No. “Soy intake was [found to be] unrelated.” Same finding in a group of predominantly white women, though they did note a protective association with the amount of lignans flowing through their bodies. Lignans are another class of phytoestrogens found predominantly in flax seeds, but also throughout the plant kingdom. Hard to make any generalizations about the soy phytoestrogens, though, as soy consumption was rather low across the board. This research was done in Washington state.

If you go to Japan, where they have the highest per capita soy consumption in the world, you could get a bigger spread of intakes. The researchers had “previously found that soy…intake was inversely associated with the risk of hysterectomy”—meaning women who ate more soy had lower hysterectomy rates, suggesting a potentially protective effect of soy against uterine fibroids, since that’s the main reason women have their uterus removed. This would be consistent with in vitro studies that found that the main soy phytoestrogen seemed to inhibit fibroid tissue proliferation in a petri dish. But, when they specifically looked, “[t]here was no evidence of” a link to soy at all, protective or otherwise. The same was found in one study out of China. Fruit and vegetable intake was associated with significantly lower risk of fibroids, but soy food consumption was not.

But, a second study out of China, published the same year, found a significant association between soy milk intake and fibroids. That’s consistent with the three alarming case reports of women with symptomatic fibroids reporting “an unusually high intake of soy milk,” or “regularly consuming excessive amounts of soy,” or “extremely high intake[s] of soy…everyday” for decades. It’s hard to take these cases seriously when nowhere do they actually say how much they were consuming. The only quantitative mention was 40 grams of isoflavones, which roughly translates to 400 gallons of soy milk every day. That would be excessive, but also impossible.

The only way to know for sure is to put it to the test. Not just a population study or anecdotal reports, but randomize women to two years of soy phytoestrogens—the amount found in three to five cups of soy milk a day—and “no significant” effect on the frequency or growth of fibroids was found.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Image credit: Noemí Jiménez via Unsplash. Image has been modified.

Motion graphics by Avocado Video.

Doctor's Note

I had gotten a lot of questions about fibroids, so I did a whole series of videos. If you missed the previous ones, check out:

What about the effect of soy on breast cancer and menopause? See:

If you haven’t yet, you can subscribe to my videos for free by clicking here.

121 responses to “Should Women with Fibroids Avoid Soy?

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    1. I wouldn’t pay much attention to that particular article, lengthy though it is. For one thing it seriously cites the views of the Weston Price Foundation – one of the leading nutritional crank organisations in the US – which leads me to seriously question the authors judgement

      For another thing, people on this site have a commitment to consumig whole foods rather than processed foods and even that article seems to accept that whole soy foods are safe except in certain clinical circumstances

      Also, if soy was a key driver in thyoid problems, you’d expect Japan (with the highest per capita soy consumption in the world) to have extremely high rates of thyroid problems. Apparently, it doesn’t – it may even have lower rates than the US and Europe.
      https://academic.oup.com/bmb/article/99/1/39/298307

      Dr Greger briefly responded to a similar question back in 2012. i doubt if much has significantly changed since then.
      https://nutritionfacts.org/questions/can-soy-suppress-the-thyroid/

    2. YR…this is a study of the literature out there on soy and thyroid ….https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16571087

      There is marginal to no effect in those with normal thyroid function. However the final line of conclusion recommends that those who consume soy make sure their iodine consumption is adequate.

      Should those on thyroid medications with dysfunctional thyroid production consume soy….by my read probably it is OK in most situations but it is really a determination the prescribing MD must make. We cannot determine the specifics of functional compromise without medical examination of a patient nor make blanket recommendations in that regard.

      If the MD is not familiar with the body of work on soy and potential affect we must of course inform them of current study. Most specialists I would almost guarantee are aware of this specific but you never know, of if one is even under the care of a specialist.

      To restate I have no medical authority in this specific and am expressing personal opinion. My personal opinion also is that vegans on a WFPB diet must attend to the necessity of iodine consumption. Most in places like America get it from iodized salt. Vegans often on WFPB diets will not consume any iodized salt at all and of course no seafoods as well. Plant sources of iodine with the exception of sea veggies are available but a usual serving does not provide a RDA. Sea veggies If one attends to the problems of contamination may be a viable consideration for vegans. I prefer north atlantic derived kelp which may be found in compressed pill form for mine. I stay away from some of the others as I would the plague as they contain so many contaminants as to make them harmful if eaten for any length of time. Generally one may not care to eat any from areas near Japan to my opinion. I stay away from arame and hijiki.

  1. Hi to all, cannot find video on acne rosacea, my partner who is 61 year old male has this condition for last 3 years, he is a vegetarian and has been for 30 years now ? Your help would be gratefully appreciated as he is extremely depressed by this condition.

    1. Ahh, nightshades plants. Big time avoid these for Rosacea, 100 %. And no dairy and
      if it were me I’d cut out eggs too! No cheating.

    2. I had rosacea, progressively getting worse despite treatment with metronidazole and occasionally antibiotics, for decades, until I went on a WFPB diet. I don’t avoid nightshade plants, by the way, but do my best to follow Dr. Greger’s advice, and my rosacea is all but gone. I get the occasional single spot when I’m under stress, but otherwise my skin is great–smooth, clear, and no longer sore. It’s been a wonderful relief and for me, testament to the “power of plants.” Oh, and my gingivitis, which showed up at the same time as the rosacea, is also gone, to the great puzzlement of my dentist, who unfortunately is skeptical about the effectiveness of a highly anti-inflammatory diet.

    3. Dear Suzan Hassan
      I am a rosacea sufferer and found out that tea tree oil is quite helpful in resolving the rosacea symptoms as most of them are triggered by the demodex mites living in our skin and hair follicles. I have had it for more than 15yrs and i feel your pain. Tried everything, starting from medication, diet, eliminating dairy completely before becoming vegan and nothing worked until I started putting few drops of tea tree oil in my shampoo and body wash. Also pillow to be washed on higher temperature or dried in the dried in case some of the mites are present can die during the process.
      Hope this helps.

  2. Suzan,

    Hi. I’d suggest your friend avoid all dairy and eggs, and ALL nightshades vegetables and fruits. Tomato, potato, gogi-berries, eggplant,
    tobacco, and some others as well.

    Also consider the SCD diet (google it). A vegan version of it. It works absolute wonders for many people with skin issues. Profound stuff, trust me.

    All this above…..give it 3 – 6 months,

  3. What about this bombshell?

    “And, indeed, dairy consumption was associated with reduced risk.”

    No explanation, real or theoretical, given? No comment? Give me a glass of….then.

      1. Keep in mind however GL acne vulgaris is not acne rosacea. Most of DR Gregers videos are in relation to common acne or acne vulgaris.

        I have not found one specific to acne rosacea. It is most probably a fungal type infection. I think the science is much less developed on rosacea. Would both remedy the same solution…..perhaps. Conventional medicine, diet excluded, suggests differing treatment to my dim recollection.
        Rosacea typically presents in older age amongst usually fair complexion peoples. Adverse to vulgaris presentation by age type.

        1. To my dim recollection there is some theoretical claim on a connection between acne rosacea and vitamin D over consumption. Sun tends to worsen rosacea and vulgaris acne, sun tends to better it in many peoples.
          If I was concerned with that I would research it to find out if that claim I make is a responsible one and if found so, then modify diet or sun exposure as remedy. The concern would probably be with vit D supplementation.
          The thinking would go as peoples with very fair complexions are suffering from it those are also the people who most likely are having more vitamin D absorbtion due to the same circumstance of fair complexion. So the presentation may be related to vit D levels not the actual presence of fungus.
          The fungus could be auxiliary to the condition in skin created by vit D overconsumption.
          But is that proven in science…I do not know but suspect not.
          For consideration only then presented.

          1. My case is, of course, just that, a single case, but I do supplement with vitamin D and have nonetheless seen an almost complete reversal of my very long-standing rosacea since adopting a WFPB diet (see my post above). The change is dramatic, I’m delighted to say. :)

            1. Yes to state it is my opinion the science on rosacea is much less developed than on acne vulgaris.
              My question for you Maureen, not to question the result….. but were confounding contributory factors present…in this specific was the adaption of a whole food plant based diet concurrent with the supplementation of vit D…did both occur at the same time, and/or was there a modification in sun exposure?

              Were there any other possible contributory cause affects..such as a move from one house to another one location to another geographically.

              1. Thirdly……not to get personal..but are there any other medical conditions or medications which may confound vitamin D assimiliation.
                Very many conditions do certain prescribed meds do as well. Did any new medical conditions/meds present then just prior to the advent of the removal of symptoms?

              2. Yes, a single case study is pretty limited in what it can show, for sure. I supplemented with vitamin D for years before going WFPB (I live in Canada), and I have always been a shade-seeker. And no, there was no move from one area to another. The change in diet was the one big factor. But it’s hard to do a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study on yourself!

                1. The only other outlier would be as stated in the third….new presentation of medical condition or medications taken,/not taken or removed…. prior to the onset of removal of symptoms but roughly concurrent.
                  Assuming all other things such as topical ointments home remedies skin lotions and such skin cleaning products skin cleaning routine remained roughly the same.

                  1. Well excuse that last comment, not seeing your response….
                    There you go, no correlation to your experience.
                    It is theory far from a proven as I read it.

                    All those things mentioned however may affect this. Which is why it is difficult to display a blanket recommendation.

                    1. Just to venture another ….but as for most people dairy is supplemented with vitamin D. Thus dairy serves as a significant part of their source in diet…… If theory is correct…. would a removal of dairy from peoples who suffer rosacea be a study not in the specific of dairy but in the removal of additional source of vitamin D?

                      Again to state this is just theory to my knowledge. I do not strongly support it but this has also occurred to me.
                      Then a person transitioning to a WFPB diet which is in the main vegan would tend to resolve rosacea if vit D was a causative factor.

                    2. It might well be, though in my case, when I went WF vegan, I replaced cow’s milk with soy milk, which is also fortified with vitamin D. I’m not sure if it is to the same extent as dairy, though.

                    3. Don’t know either Maureen…I went vegan in 1990 for the most part….so don’t have a container handy;). Imagine the expiration date on that one if I did….
                      I’d guess it is about the same.

                      By your experience that theory is disproved. ;)
                      I think I did some sort of justice to the science out there though….anything that supports a fungus growth may affect it by my read. Which includes a bunch of things.
                      Acne vulgaris is just not so similar.
                      But in any event WFPB seems to improve most any disease or condition. It seems to be what our evolution produced and we align best with it…so how could it not?
                      Congrats on overcoming

    1. I’ll pass thanks. About half the calories from a glass of milk come from fat

      “What did predict risk of cardiovascular disease was “fat swapping.” When dairy fat was replaced with the same number of calories from vegetable fat or polyunsaturated fat, the risk of cardiovascular disease dropped by 10% and 24%, respectively. Furthermore, replacing the same number of calories from dairy fat with healthful carbohydrates from whole grains was associated with a 28% lower risk of cardiovascular disease.”
      https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2016/10/25/dairy-fat-cardiovascular-disease-risk/

  4. Women can can eat and drink soy products without fear of causing fibroids. Women do not need to avoid soy. The answer to the question was, “No.”

    I personally wish Dr. Greger would simply tell us the conclusion of the research rather than all the details. I would enjoy hearing five minutes of, “Thirty-five studies have concluded….” “Over one thousand studies have shown….” “It is no longer supported to believe….” and so on. :)

    1. I think that showing the details of the studies makes Dr. Greger´s presentations so special, especially with all of the false and contreversial information out there.

      1. Laughing, because I agree with both of you.

        All the details is what makes Dr. Greger’s presentations special, and I wouldn’t have it any other way, in some ways.

        However, it is easy to lose the details down the rabbit holes.

        But what would Lewis Carroll have been without his rabbit holes.

        I have watched some videos over again and half-way through it I suddenly say, “Oh, I have seen this one before.”

        It has made it challenging when I go back to look for something and start watching and think, “This isn’t it” and it is it.

        There are a few videos, which begin with totally off topics and I posted two links when someone off NutritionFacts.org asked a question. I think one of them was PCOS. Is that a topic? I just remember coming here, grabbing a link, posting it elsewhere, then, I watched it and it began with something, which was going to confuse the person, who isn’t a Dr. Greger follower.

        I know that happened twice, so I know that some of the scripts go astray, but I genuinely do like the details and find they help me when people want to pick a food fight.

    2. I’m happy the dr. Gregor finally put out a video on soy An that it doe not not cause uterine fibroids.. I no I personally feel better consuming
      Soy . Delicious creamy soy milk. An other soy foods.

  5. “Both grapefruit seed and grapefruit pulp contain potent antimicrobial chemicals. Grapefruit seed extracts kill the kind of bacteria that cause stomach ulcers. These bacteria are implicated in many cases of rosacea. Up to 50% of people who have rosacea benefit from taking grapefruit seed extract.”
    I know supplements are not recommended by Dr. Greger, but a friend of mine cured her rosacea by using the liquid Grapefruit Seed Extract, 10 drops in water, in the morning on an empty stomach. It took a week or more as I
    recall.

  6. Glad to have as much information to counteract the soy police as possible!

    Years ago, my friend had fibroids so bad that they told her that her only solution was surgery. She was in her early 30’s and hadn’t had children yet. She went to multiple doctors and they all said that they only solution was surgery. (Two of my other friends had surgery, after a lifetime of ridiculously painful periods)

    Anyway, she asked me to pray for her and I prayed and started searching around on the internet and found Green Tea Extract being used with animals. She started drinking green tea and never had surgery and never had problems again, until a few years later, she stopped drinking green tea and she contacted me again and I said, “Is the green tea not working?” and she said, “I forgot about green tea.”

  7. I don’t touch soy. Having had fibroids and then Endometrial (Uterine) cancer, Stage 3C, with chemo and radiation at the age of 46, I’d rather just stay away from soy. First there is so much food to eat, leaving soy out does not make a difference in my life, second, if cancer ever came back I’d blame soy and quite honestly I don’t think I have it in me to go through chemo and rads again….I still have to brush my teeth in the shower because just that act (Pavlov’s theory) can make me vomit, third, I just don’t trust research. Everyone brings up the Asian population, especially eating soy (from what I’ve read it is about 5% of their diet) and how they don’t have these problems and yet on the other side of the plate researchers recommend we eat brown rice (Many other countries have eaten white rice for thousands of years and it hasn’t affected them). There is so much contradicting research…and who’s to say soy doesn’t hurt men but does hurt women because we are built different. I’m not sure if there are other contributing factors but since our country hasn’t been great at helping women as they are men (Ambien current research, hormone therapy from the 50’s, Thalidomide from the 50’s), I’ll just stay away from soy.

    1. I avoid soy like the plague, I am vegan, male, and have had horrific experiences when eating
      soy and in any way shape or form. I am not allergic, but duh, my body says avoid soy!

      I wonder if there is a genetic component to soy, that asians can properly digest it,
      sort of like seaweed, they have the proper bacteria in gut to deal with any issues.

      1. It seems more and more that our gut bacteria is more a adaptation to what we eat then a solid state thing.
        One area I have heard in response to genetics though I have never examined any science on it…Japanese are said to not suffer very many hangover symptoms with rice based alcohol (sake) but very many with grain based. Not all but many peoples.

        But soy I’d suggest it is more a specific thing. I eat it all the time and have no problems. Though admittedly when I first did this type thing years ago it took a while to get normal with it. But some things affect peoples for no known reason. To much nutritional yeast and not my intestine but my stomach will bother me…so who knows?

  8. Hi all –

    Just a note about an event many of you might enjoy participating in, the online (free!) 2018 Food Revolution summit, that starts TOMORROW and goes through May 6th. Dr. Greger seems a featured presenter, along with many other luminaries from the WFPB camp.

    https://www.foodrevolutionsummit.org/

    (Scroll down to see the speaker lineup)

    1. P.S. Dr. Greger will present tomorrow, Saturday April 28th, at 11 AM EDT.

      Unfortunately, if you want to ask questions or to leave comments, you need to have a Facebook account, which leaves me out, as I do not have a Facebook account no plans to ever get one. Unlike most people, I’ve actually looked over their terms and agreements section, and it includes a range of conditions that I would never agree to, even from a company that I trusted. And these days, it has become very clear that Facebook seems about as trustworthy as the current U.S. administration.

      For next years conference, I suggested they look into how the comments section works here on the NFO website. From the response I got back, I doubt they will, as from a practical standpoint Facebook has a lot to offer – though at a cost. I do hope though that as far as their partnership with Facebook goes, that when they set it up, they took to heart the old saying that “He who sups with the devil should have a long spoon . . . ”

      1. Listened to Day 1 and it was fabulously inspiring.

        Dr. Greger was excellent. I laugh, because he spoke in “normal voice” versus “entertainment video voice” and I love both. (But I know there have been comments from people who prefer him without his charismatic schtick, but honestly, it was the marriage between charismatic entertainer and detail-oriented study-oriented medical doctor, which got me following him. There are thousands of regular doctor voices and if they use studies properly, I would listen, because I am PBS and talk radio, more than Hollywood oriented. Though I have friends who are in Hollywood, who would be disappointed if I said that, it is just that Hollywood is more like the SAD and what I heard Day 1 of this conference is more like WFPB and there is such a difference. Dr. Greger, as long as you stay humble and do what you do, you can just plain talk or entertain or write detail-oriented books. You don’t even have to be funny, but I like it when you are. I am rambling, which is a weakness, but it was really nice to listen to a more conversational version of you and you genuinely would be just as popular if you just showed up and be yourself. How is that for confusing feedback? I am being sincere about it. You don’t need the schtick, but I LOVE that you have fun with it. If it ever gets “not fun” then just be yourself. (And, yes, I watched the video of you as a young person and looked at the eyes of you as a six year old and highly suspect that the stand up comedy routine goes back all the way to your grandmother’s twinkling laughing eyes.

        It feels good to be part of a movement.

        1. I also listened to Dr. Greger doing the opening presentation with John Robbins, and working together the two of them did an A+ job that hit the ball right out of the park.

    2. Thanks Alef!

      FREE ON-LINE Food Summit!

      That is SO COOL!

      I looked at who was there and there are so many good speakers.

      Laughing that there is a mix between WFPB and something other than that, but I respect Mr. Robbins.

      He chose against having an ice cream empire, because he didn’t want to harm people’s health.

      I can’t even convey enough respect for how rare it is to find that caliber of conscience.

      Powerful.

      1. “I can’t even convey enough respect for how rare it is to find that caliber of conscience.”

        I could not agree more – John’s level of integrity seems extraordinary. I met him back when he worked on a final draft of his Diet for a New America book, and have remained in contact with him on and off over the years, and through it all he has always “walked his talk.”

        1. Wow, Alef, what a blessing that is!

          His interviews are fabulous!

          He really listens to the people and is so well-spoken.

          I have a best friend who is a radio personality, who does interviews and he is so good at it.

          Polite. Respectful. He doesn’t talk over people. He pauses and doesn’t ramble out of nerves. He is charismatic in an effortless way, rather than a performance way. I genuinely enjoyed listening to him. He conveys that he cares about people. He conveys that he cares both about the person in front of him and the masses. His interviews are as if he is talking with a friend on a couch at times. Comfortable.

          You are truly blessed to have someone who conveys such an understanding of what healthy is!

          I am laughing, because I am not surrounded by that, and I love my friends and family anyways, but they don’t know how to be healthy, so that lack of health becomes the conversations.

          Tonight, I was talking with my cousin who needs dialysis. He was talking about how frustrated he is that his doctors don’t want him to eat grains or beans or most fruits or vegetables or nuts. He said that he can’t even eat lettuce. They want him to eat white bread and chicken and fish and he can eat canned peaches and canned pears, but not fresh fruit.

          We talked about the food summit and I pause, because he can’t do any of it at all. The doctors have him doing the upside-down and backwards diet and I want him to just try a few weeks of WFPB and see if it works, but they are monitoring his Potassium and Phosphorous. I can’t even handle that they wouldn’t talk to him about WFPB in Stage 3 and now they are having him eat white bread and chicken and telling him to stay away from fiber.

          1. It broke my heart talking with my cousin, because he is willing to do WFPB and would even eat all fruit is what he said.

            But it is like it is too late for diet.

            I brought him my cold laser and Micropulse ICES and am gonna probably bring over a vie light knock off and get the magnet belt to see if I can help him get better enough to have him be able to eat fruits and veggies and grains and beans and fiber with me.

            Not sure what will work, but I know these things will increase his circulation.

            I ponder the Kempner diet for him, but they aren’t wanting him to go in that direction.

  9. Soy is Dangerous for your Health – Based on My Own Experience

    I believe it was late twentieth and/or early twenty first century when Oprah had number of her, so called, exports on women’s health on her show. Subject such as Peri-menopause and Menopause was frequently discussed.

    Oprah’s frequent guest was DR Christiane Northrup. Christiane Northrup, among other Oprah’s guests, kept promoting all Soy Products.

    It was around the same time when I became a vegetarian – I removed all animal products from my diet.

    I trusted Christiane Northrup and other Oprah’s guests I began to add significant amount of soy products to my diet – this included soy milk, soy cheese, tofu, edamame, tempeh… All Organic…

    About a year or so before I started introducing soy products to my diet I had my physical check up. My doctor specifically made a comment how small my womb was… I didn’t pay much attention to that comment, except I thought it was an unusual remark…

    About two years after being vegetarian and eating great deal of soy products my periods became extremely, heavy. When I saw my doctor, she was very surprised to find out that my womb has greatly increased in size. Ultrasound showed that there were three grapefruit-size fibroids in and around my womb.

    I know this is my own theory – totally a anecdotal… but I am convinced that adding great deal of soy products to my diet had caused the growth of the fibroids in my body. I personally do not trust soy as a food – my research shows that the only safe soy product might fermented soy.

    One more thing, few years ago I took an online nutrition course offered by University of California… When a student questioned if soy was safe to eat, the professor’s response was that since controversy about safety of eating soy exists, it is best to wait for more studies to be published… In her own words: “If in doubt, leave it out”.

    Cheers,

    1. Mary,

      It seems that you may have eaten to much soy. An everyone is different. I started soy An I’m peri menopausal an my hot flashes were
      Off the charts until I started soy. I no longer suffer from hot flashes. An I’m hypothyroidism an I actually I’m not suffering with the same
      Problems I had after eating soy plus I have uterine fibroids. So I guess you need to listen to your body An decide. There’s no one size
      Fits all diet plan. Soy could be very beneficial for some people. Kris Carr had cancer an she still eats soy.

      1. Margaret, I had thyroid issues, which have improved after adding soy, too.

        People who are terrified of soy kept trying to bully me away from it, but the video where it prevented Cancer and kept Cancer patients alive and helped with Menopause caused me to try it.

        I finally am losing weight. 8 pounds in the past 3 weeks and I probably am eating 3 to 5 servings every day.

        I am aware of staying below 15 servings a day, but that is fairly easy.

        1. I feel like soy has been maligned the same way carbohydrates have been.

          I drink it and ponder how happy my gut bacteria are.

          And think about my mother dying from breast cancer and feel like I am doing something genuinely protective.

    2. Mary…this...this included soy milk, soy cheese, tofu, edamame, tempeh… All Organic…..sounds like a lot of soy.
      There is some connection with consumption in excess of soy and increased IGF-1 levels( a form of growth hormone).
      High IGF-1 levels are thought to coincide with increased propensity of cancerous tumors to grow and spread.
      IGF-1 levels are increased for most with dairy and meat consumption. A normal vegan has much lower levels in study than a comparative meat eater or even a vegetarian who consumes dairy.
      At normal amounts of intake, 3 or even perhaps up to 5 servings per day, it is thought soy does not have this affect. Above that which sounds like your consumptive level there indeed may be this result.

      So at that level of consumption may not be thought healthy. Hard to say definitively but I personally would not risk it.

        1. Yes that is true. But as per his video How much soy is to much…he recommends…”To maintain the low IGF-1 levels associated with a plant-based diet, one should probably eat no more than 3-5 servings of soy foods a day.

          I tend to agree with your number as the science points to it. But I think at least one WFPB doc recommends for no soy which seems not based on science.
          So hence we have confusion.

          1. Always going to be confusion because even the scientists and doctors can’t agree and quite honestly I just do what’s best for me which may not be best for someone else. Everybody has to take care of their own body, be their own doctor first.

            1. Leigh regarding this….Always going to be confusion because even the scientists and doctors can’t agree

              Disagree. Soy by my read is one of the most studied food componants. The science produces conclusive findings.
              Docs interpretations of the findings varies.
              Agree on that.

              All we need to do if we find confliction is really go to the studies themselves. Then as you may say..make up our own minds.
              Dr Greger by my take does a pretty honest review of the science.

    3. I was looking at what various sources said and looked at the history of soy research and it has always been confusing.

      That being said, more and more it is: helps with Cancer in safe doses.

      Supplements and powders are where it gets “iffy” and I ponder that.

      Here is what an oncology dietician says about soy to Cancer patients:

      https://www.curetoday.com/community/amanda-bontempo/2017/06/soy-and-cancer-decoded

      “Each serving of whole food sources of soy provide only 30-60mg of soy isoflavones. Whole food sources of soy include edamame, soybeans, soy milk, soy nuts, soy yogurt, miso soup, tempeh and tofu. Given the available data, I do not restrict these whole food sources. These whole food sources provide only low-moderate levels of soy isoflavones in a healthy combination with protein, fiber, and fat, potassium, magnesium, copper, manganese.
      Processed soy foods like sausages, cheese and hot dogs actually lose isoflavone potency in processing. These things, like any processed food, lose much of their healthy components like micronutrient concentration and often have additives, salt, stabilizers etc.

      Isoflavone concentrated in soy protein powders and pills are actually much higher. Women with a history of estrogen sensitive breast cancer should avoid soy protein meal supplement bars and shakes often listed as soy flour or soy protein isolate because these contain very high levels of isolated soy isoflavones, which may raise the risk of breast cancer in post-menopausal women and interfere with the action of selective estrogen receptor drugs like tamoxifen.

      I would not recommend soy supplements or powders as there is one 2014 study that indicates altered expression of genes promoting breast cancer. The level of isoflavones consumed was 100mg per day, which is above those recognized as safe. The clinical significance of this is unclear but more is not always better.”

    4. They have been eating soy in Asia for thousands of years – often in substantial quantities. Why don’t the Japanese and other Asians experience all these problems in plague proportions?

    5. When I went on WFPB diet, I used 1/4 cup of organic edamame in my smoothies daily, because soybeans have the highest protein content among legumes. I am also physically active, logging at least 200 minutes of exercise a week (About 1/2 of that in cardio and other in strength training). Like you, one year later , I was diagnosed with 5 fibroids, two of them the size of a grapefruit ! Four are embedded in the muscles of my uterine wall and one is in the cavity. The latter could be removed with minimal surgery, the former would need major surgery and possibly a hysterectomy ! My doctor said they are very common, with 80% of the population in my demographic having the same diagnosis. She did not think my soy consumption had anything to do with it. It appears I was doomed by my genetics to get them anyway ! I still have not been able to bring myself to eat Soy any more!

    6. At 64 years of age I have consumed soy my entire life. Our farm grew soybeans. As children we would play hide-n-seek in the soy rows and, while hiding on our backs in the rows, would pick ripe soy beans from the plants and munch away. Delicious! Loved tofu all my life with occasional soy milk (great for making mashed potatoes!! ) No fibroids over my lifetime, post-menopausal uterus still intact.

  10. I wonder how old were the women in the last study referenced in the video? Is any follow-up planned? A difference may show up after 10 or 20 years. I think fibroids develop slowly over time, don’t they? After mine were removed, my doctor told me the largest one was the size of a cantaloupe.

    1. Naomi- As one of the volunteers for NF.org, I see that one of your questions was answered by TG and that indeed tumors don’t always grow slowly. You asked about the ages of the women in the study cited in the video. I reviewed the complete study and the 406 women in the study were between 40 and 60 years of age and described as health menopausal women. There was no indication of any planned next study.but if you asked thinking that perhaps these women just hadn’t yet had negative effects from soy consumption thee seemed to be no expectation that with time the results would change., If you’d like to see the complete study, here is a link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3021428/

  11. I think people have to distinguish between organic soy products and the whole PR about “most soy being not organic and having a toxic byproduct” which I don’t see as true.

    I am going to post words from Dr. Greger, because soy can prevent cancer and keep cancer patients alive and help with gut bacteria are too big of benefits for people to put up their theories without posting the reason to have some.

    “Soybeans naturally contain a class of phytoestrogens called isoflavones. People hear the word “estrogen” in the word “phytoestrogens” and assume that means soy has estrogen-like effects. Not necessarily. Estrogen has positive effects in some tissues and potentially negative effects in others. For example, high levels of estrogen can be good for the bones but can increase the likelihood of developing breast cancer. Ideally, you’d like what’s called a “selective estrogen receptor modulator” in your body that would have proestrogenic effects in some tissues and antiestrogenic effects in others. Well, that’s what soy phytoestrogens appear to be. Soy seems to lower breast cancer risk, an antiestrogenic effect, but can also help reduce menopausal hot-flash symptoms, a proestrogenic effect. So, by eating soy, you may be able to enjoy the best of both worlds.

    What about soy for women with breast cancer? Overall, researchers have found that women diagnosed with breast cancer who ate the most soy lived significantly longer and had a significantly lower risk of breast cancer recurrence than those who ate less. The quantity of phytoestrogens found in just a single cup of soymilk may reduce the risk of breast cancer returning by 25 percent. The improvement in survival for those eating more soy foods was found both in women whose tumors were responsive to estrogen (estrogen-receptor positive breast cancer) and those whose tumors were not (estrogen-receptor negative breast cancer). This also held true for both young women and older women. In one study, for example, 90 percent of the breast cancer patients who ate the most soy phytoestrogens after diagnosis were still alive five years later, while half of those who ate little to no soy were dead.”

    1. Hi deb,

      I agree with you 100 percent. I know from my own experience soy has helped me out. My sister Laws mom has breast cancer an she’s eating soy now as well. So people need to keep an open Mind an not get caught up with all of the drama about soy An gluten. People don’t realize that It’s not the food that’s causing the problems . It’s years an years of processed food an fast food that has ruined that guts an digestion along with depleted soils an genetically modified food. About 8 years ago I had really bad food sensitivities an I couldn’t eat anything. I was on a strict Paleo diet to heal my gut an my digestion. I could not eat any nightshades without breaking out in rashes. Now I can eat all of it with no issues at all. Listen to your body An do what you think is right for you. But I don’t think that blaming certain foods is the answer. Look at what you’ve been eating for years.

  12. Soy in nonorganic form, GMO soy most common now…. is one of the most likely things to be subject to extensive application of herbicides and pesticides. It was created for that purpose to sustain that use. I assume most all GMO soy is going to have more amounts of both.
    I would never personally consume GMO soy. Animal feed is a result of much GMO soy and I assume that translates to increased levels in animals as well.

    But yes…widespread organic and non GMO products even in simple commercial cereals are now available and marked. It is now very common. The food industry in large part has crunched on this one. Marking when once they refused.

    1. Any viable study on soy currently would have to specify organic or non GMO by my read…..or all you may get is a negative result on not soy, but herbicide trace.

      You would have to isolate for study purpose by my read.

    2. Ron,

      Dr. Greger said that most food in America is from organic sources and most of the GMO goes to animal feed.

      That is what the people who bully people away from it reverse. They say that 90% of the soy in food is GMO and I read it on one of the pages and that is the quote they use and that one sentence on-line is the sentence, which has caused the most confusion.

      1. My pet peeve is that people demonize the soy, rather than the Round Up.

        They do the same process with gluten and corn.

        But you can get organic products and people end up being afraid of soy, gluten, corn, bananas and all sorts of strange things, instead of walking around the grocery store and looking for the word, “organic” on everything.

        1. Deb, I’m not sure about people “demonizing” soy but as a farmer I think we just have a more “ear to the ground” perspective so we know how it affects our land, our animals and us probably a little more then the normal person. I say eat soy if you like it and feel comfortable. I’m incredibly thankful we have free choice and there’s so much to eat that soy doesn’t have to be in my diet or my animals diet. In the end, despite all the research, there are too many variables that no one knows about.

        2. Deb..keep in mind many products now are not organic but may be non-gmo… a quote from a investing site motley fool..

          “Some of that demand could be coming from food companies that want their products to be shelved at Whole Foods (NASDAQ: WFM) in the future. The quickly growing chain has announced that, “by 2018, all products in its U.S. and Canadian stores must be labeled to indicate if they contain genetically modified organisms (GMOs).”
          But those involved with the programs say that the number of mainstream food producers that are jumping on the Non-GMO Project’s bandwagon might surprise us. General Mills (NYSE:GIS) famously decided to offer its Cheerios sans-GMOs last year, but the box doesn’t have the label. Other brands, like Post Holdings’ (NYSE:POST) Grapenuts, do include the label.
          Megan Westgate, executive director for the Non-GMO Project, chimed in, stating, “With all of this traction in the natural sector, we’re increasingly seeing more conventional companies coming on board and having their products verified.”

          The jumping onto the non GMO bandstand by the majors, has actually hurt companies that specialize in organic produce like Whole foods.
          Peoples will just not knowingly eat GMO, a lot of them. So given a choice they go not full organic but non-GMO is the thinking.
          To be clear I am invested in this sector in a minor fashion.
          The stocks overall have trended down since the majors have started to label or stock with non GMO.
          The best thing ever for the alternative food market was big agricultures refusal to label things as GMO. That assured the growth of the alternative market such as whole foods, now owned by Amazon.

          Big Agriculture is trying to prevent a similar outcome by buying up all the companies that specialize in vegan food products…instead of trying to prevent them. To the inverse big dairy is trying to fight alternative milks head on. Trying to get outlawed the wording on containers and adds and this and that.
          But big ag in general..they are simply buying the competition up…looking to the future.

          Most soy is GMO and not organic(two separate catagories) as most is fed to animals and much is exported.
          They may be non GMO but still not organic. Organic must be non GMO however. Organic has further requirements to meet.

          1. Keep in mind oils is a secondary market for soybeans which the consumer is really not on to…organic soy oil is common in health food products…..non GMO soy oil….pretty hard to find.

            The vast majority of soy oil in products by my read is still conventional. Companies such as global BUNGE (BG) do this special production of oil from stock. BG last I checked is a major producer of consumer oils but has little in the way of nonGMO and organic oils. Perhaps they have changed but on my last check.

          2. Thanks Ron.

            I can’t even handle that people are messing with our food.

            It is also disconcerting that these companies can’t be trusted.

            I am not surprised that the big companies are buying up the vegan products, I just want so much pressure that they go both non-GMO and organic together.

            It feels like there are so many organic products out there now in every grocery store.

            It must make it harder for Whole Foods, except that they tend to have more organic foods.

            Though, I have to say, over the past few weeks, I have noticed that where organic has been plentiful in their produce section, the last two times I went, it seems like half of the fruit was “conventional” versus “organic.”

            Is that something, which happens this time of year?

            It is causing me to not eat as much fruit and veggies, but I suspect we are almost to a better season.

            1. Whole foods…..”It must make it harder for Whole Foods, except that they tend to have more organic foods.

              Is considered by my appraisal to have maxed out the market.Grown as large as they may here in the US in a conventional fashion brick and morter stores.. The focus now with the Amazon buyout is to work to expand that market in a other fashion. A mix of amazon vehicle and whole foods product. So they may as amazon has done in retail, devolve the foods market brick and morter.
              Amazon is the reason Sears JC Penny Macys and so many others are devolving. Amazon plans to do the same eventually in foods with whole foods as vehicle. Common supermarkets will be the first to fail in the plan. Some will survive as some dept stores continue, but the weakest will fall and market share will suffer.
              This has just started.
              To be clear I do not own them in stock. I own other company in the sector in stock.

      2. Well that’s interesting as I am a farmer/rancher. I don’t know any farmer, in my area, that is organic. There are plenty of little farms or family yards that are organic. If I wanted to plant my 100 acre field with organic soybeans I would not be able to afford it.

        1. From AG MRC as per November 2017….
          Overview
          Organic soyfoods have experienced the fastest growth of all consumer food segments during the past 10 years. This phenomenon is driven by the fact that soymilk and meat analogs have made substantial improvements in versatility and have been recognized for their health attributes. Once reserved as a staple for “true” vegetarians, organic soy products are now finding their way onto the shopping lists of more traditional consumers.
          Production
          In 2016 organic soybeans were produced on 124,591 acres in the United States, compared to 94,841 in 2015. Iowa reported the largest number of acres planted to certified organic soybeans that year: 20,547. That same year, Minnesota had 13,893 acres planted in organic soybeans, and Michigan had 10,815 acres.
          Frequently, the organic market specifies ‘Vinton’ and other varieties of food-grade soybeans. These varieties are used primarily in the production of tofu, tempeh, soya nuts and a host of other products and are generally grown under contract.
          Market
          Total U.S. sales of organic foods in 2015 were $43.3 billion, up 11 percent from 2014 according to the Organic Trade Association. According to the USDA AMS, the sales of organic commodities totaled $6.2 million in 2015.

          To add other animal feed stocks have different brands for application of animal or human use. Things grown nowadays are developed for anticipate use. A potato for instance for dinner table eating is way different than a potato for potato chip company use. One for chip company use if eaten at a table for dinner…all would think you a bad cook as they taste horrible…but they make good chips.
          Animal intended use corn..same thing taste horrible;)
          Here one brand of soy makes for good tofu anther best served to cows….

            1. A brief review of organic trade by USDA..
              ‘U.S. organic exports that are tracked—mostly fruit and vegetables—reached $548 million in 2016. Top U.S. organic exports (in value) in 2016 were apples, grapes, and lettuce. Although the United States exported organic products to 79 countries, Canada and Mexico accounted for 70 percent of the value of tracked U.S. organic exports in 2016. Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea were also among the United States’ top trade partners for organic products in 2016.
              U.S. organic imports that are tracked equaled $1.65 billion in 2016. Top U.S. organic imports in 2016 included bananas, coffee, and olive oil (all of which the United States does not produce in large quantities), as well as corn and soybeans (to meet growing demand for organic livestock feed). Turkey, Mexico, Italy, Peru, and Ecuador supplied 43 percent of tracked U.S. organic imports. In 2016, 87 countries supplied the tracked organic products to the United States.

        2. Leighe,

          I think about that all the time lately.

          The world needs organic foods, but the farms have been run the opposite way for so long, that it has to be cost prohibitive to change.

          I would be “for” subsidies for organic, but the consumer demand is probably not quite there yet.

          It just seems like it has to happen eventually.

  13. Regarding culinary adventures with nuts and seeds and nuts/seeds butters and whole grains

    I guess we all seem to love our blended nuts, as dressings, crumbles or nut based sauces on a whole food plant based diet. They have become a staple in our culinary arsenal as seen in the current available wfpb cookbooks. Thankfully they are a blessing to our arteries and overall health. While not all the calories from nuts and seeds are absorbed by the body, this is more of a technicality, their caloric density will influence total body mass when eaten in greater amounts. This might not be much of a problem when you regularly cook from The How Not To Die Cookbook by Dr. Greger. Because his book especially does not only show you healthy recipes, the recipes are also almost always ‘honest recipes”.

    What I mean by honest recipes is that they also take into account the caloric density of the total dish. many other cookbooks feature healthy wfpb recipes but at the same time they tend to be (too) high in calories. In wfpb this high caloric density predominantly comes from nuts,seeds and whole grains.

    That is why I am interested in some possible substitutions that you yourself use in the kitchen?

    Some possible adjustments ;

    *) Using corn (86 calories per 100 gram) instead of other whole grains like wheat (339 calories per 100 gram), corn has less calories but you still get the whole grain benefits.

    *) I have not tried this but chestnuts (213 calories/100g) while walnuts have (654 calories/100g) and most other nuts around (570 calories/100g).
    Somebody here that tried a wfpb chestnut mac ‘n ‘ cheese or a dressing? Any tips? Does it compare taste wise?

    *) Nut powders. This one I have already tried and has been a huge success for recipes like ice creams that call for a spoon of nut butter. If you sub that spoon with the powder, you are left with 85% less calories. I guess you are left with the same standards that are used to judge something like cocao powder to asses it’s healthiness.

    Raw cacao powder is made by cold-pressing unroasted cocoa beans. This process keeps the enzymes in the cocoa and removes the fat (cacao butter). Cocoa looks the same but it’s not. Cocoa powder is raw cacao that’s been roasted at high temperatures.

    For example in the brand “PB2” the powder is made by pressing out most of the natural oils from roasted peanuts and then grinding the nuts into a fine powder. So ideally you would have to find a brand that is using unroasted peanuts that are cold-pressed.

    1. I love chestnuts but I never had Mac an cheese with chestnuts . I’m not sure if it would work the same has cashews in a pasta sauce. You can make a chestnut Loaf which is really good. It makes a nice thanksgiving or Christmas dinner with cauliflower Mash .

  14. I just listened to Dr. Greger doing the opening protestation with John Robbins, and working together the two of them did an A+ job – together they had a synergy that hit the ball right out of the park.

    If you want to listen to this presentation for free you’ve got only the next 21 hours to tune in.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v4RX1PHGJk

  15. Okay, tonight, while I was driving, I felt like the Holy Spirit nudged me that I read that Calcium Channel Blockers block EMF’s, but I didn’t look up the FOODS which act as Calcium Channel Blockers, which could probably be studied by someone to block EMF’s, and which I can start using now.

    So, Magnesium-rich foods, it is.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22051430

    I decided to put it here, because SOY is one of the top foods, according to the list I just looked at.

    I don’t think there is a study about soy and EMF’s yet, but Calcium Channel Blockers effected EMF’s and Magnesium is a Calcium Channel Blocker. Spinach would work, for those of you who are afraid of soy.

    I came to peace about people trying to bully me away from soy tonight. They feel like it is dangerous and if I could bully them away from all of the dangerous things they eat, I probably would do it, too, but it would only stick if they do the math themselves.

  16. I went back and looked up foods other than soy and found that some do have studies about how they are protective against EMF’s on PubMed and

    Foods rich in Vitamin E might help. (Spinach again)

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5102560/

    Foods with caffeic acid from things like cabbage, cauliflower and kale, etc.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19671636

    Food sources of Melatonin (banana, tomatoes, etc.) (along with foods high in Tryptophan – so soy again)

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4508145/

    Foods high in Vitamin C

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5106548/

    There are probably others.

    These ones are studies, mine was just a flash of inspiration that there should be a study.

  17. You know…”I came to peace about people trying to bully me away from soy tonight.
    Just my personal observation but….I have noticed a disproportionate amount of people seem to have a thing against soy.
    Don’t like the taste of the raw beans myself and don’t like soy milk as well, but all things considered soy seems like anything else really, some good mostly good a bit of bad in excess, like most things, and it may upset stomachs of some, again like most things may occasionally…..so why so much hate on soy?

    Normal consumptive pattern and the science suggests usually benefit. I ran across a thing tonight someone complaining about a cancer suggestion for certain fermented and pickled foods….not having to look up that one I know the causative agent is most probably salt. Pickled things are usually high salt.

    Salt causes high blood pressure and americans eat about twice as much as they need, and excess it may tend one towards cancer…it is in excessive amounts in virtually all fast foods and most convience foods.
    So why isn’t a crowd response found about salt???
    Poor soy….seems they are doomed to be the red headed step child ;)

    1. Ron

      Perhaps because soy milk, cheese, soy yoghurt etc are the biggest alternatives to dairy foods. And because tofu, soy meats, burgers and sausages are the biggest alternatives to meat.

      It’s little surprise then that the meat and dairy crowd woulld try their darnedest to denigrate soy.

      Most of the arguments seem pretty stupid to me since they determinedly ignore the fact that soy has been eaten for millennia in Asia without any significant problems it seems. Yet magically it appears to cause all sorts of health probems in Americans who actually eat only tiny smounts of the stuff. There’s definitely something odd going on with all these claims of harm from soy consumotion.

      “For example, the world’s biggest soybean producer, the U.S., produces about 73 million tons per year. Its population however, only consumes on average about 40 grams*2 of soy per person per year. This is less than the amount eaten in one day by the average person in Japan.
      2Source: UN Food and Agriculture Organization”
      https://www.otsuka.co.jp/en/nutraceutical/about/soylution/encyclopedia/consumption.html

      1. Tom, that analysis rings true.

        Soy is what makes it easier for people to go Vegan as a transition to WFPB.

        It makes it easier with the meats and the milks and the cheeses and it allows people to still have the flavors they are used to. It is one of the biggest threats to those industries.

        Honestly, that is why I get defensive about soy. It is in the products, which could help my family and friends, but my sister-in-law is in the “soy is dangerous” and “lectins and nightshades are dangerous” camp and so are most of my friends, and I want to say, “No, you just clicked on the wrong web-sites.” and they are terrified of so many plant foods and I watch them all go Keto and feel like someone changed the name to Atkins, because Atkins had become a liability.

        They are killing people and I don’t know whether they know it and don’t care or believe that they are saving people.

        1. Preventing Cancer comes up against another huge money making industry.

          And supplements and the soy protein powders causing the DNS damage and causing Cancer.

          How many of these stupid supplements are killing people?

        2. AS Dr Greger showed with his video on talcum powder…Johnson and Johnson knew quite surely their products caused cancer and not only still made them after finding out, but continued to advertise them…”They are killing people and I don’t know whether they know it and don’t care or believe that they are saving people.

          I could perhaps see the continuing to make part…people out of jobs and all that, you may have to gradually ramp down…but continue to advertise….that means they intended to kill for profit.

          They are being thwarted nevertheless…the beyond beef product I just bought…checked…its base is peas……will they now start to demonize peas?

          Are peoples this soft minded they cannot see what we see…there is not a whole lot against it in scientific study. A tiny bit really only if one eats a ton of it daily. Normal amounts nothing. Of course not to discount a very small amount of peoples that may have a untoward reaction to it.Really rare that though.

          1. “will they now start to demonize peas?”

            Good heavens, Ron. Peas are legumes and everybody knows that legumes contain hiugh levels of lectins. That stuff will kill you if you kep eating it, don’t you know? You have to avoid those foods – just ask that nice Dr Gunfdry

            It’s best to eat only healthy, nutritious foods like meat, dairy and eggs that are bioth safe and good for you. Just look at all those people getting sick from eating lettuce (nothing at all to do with the contaiminating bacteria coming from animal faeces or dead animals in the manure and irrigation water used to griw crops).

    1. Alesso, This came up before in the comments. The key word is “elderly” and I believe the answer is that they eventually start losing weight as they get closer to the end of life.

      My vet said that about my dog. I was focused on him not gaining weight as he gets elderly and my vet said, “I don’t worry about that at all at his age. I am looking for when he starts losing weight.”

      My grandmother’s doctor had said the same thing a few years before she died.

      There was this magic moment when the focus switched and I am not sure anyone could pinpoint exactly when.

      1. Alesso, I listened to the Food Summit today and got confused by Dr. Fuhrman talking about fats, but fats would be another one where the general concern would be to not clog up your arteries to your heart or brain, but he talked about vegans getting too little fat and there are things like vitamin absorption and nutrition getting to the brain, where fats are suddenly important again.

        I almost don’t want to listen to the next session, because “fat” has become so confusing to me, because I know I ate so much dairy, that I am trying to stay low in it, but I also know that I have brain problems and that somehow is BOTH stay low in it to unclog those arteries AND get some fat, because the brain is made up of fat and the brain needs nutrition.

        It is a tightrope of concepts to me right now and I am hoping studies will come out so that Dr. Greger can help me understand what that means on a daily level. I respect Dr. Fuhrman, but somehow his answer didn’t clarify things. I think I need a format more like Dr. Greger’s or this is what I have more faith in, because most of the “fats” talkers are saying things that will kill me.

        1. My personal opinion on fats is it all depends upon focus and condition. If one has any medical condition that indicates plaque in the arteries as being causative..one has to stay away from any oils and even if significantly affected some of the nuts which contain fat and fat containing things like avocado and coconut.

          For the rest of us……. oil is probably unnatural so one should consume it only in a very limited amount. But nuts are seemingly a healthy part of diet. Nevertheless one should not only eat nuts.
          If a docs focus is the cardiovascular system compromise they are going to advocate for no oils and no nuts/ seeds whatever, with a large proportion of fat in them.
          It is possible one may consume advocados and similar things without a negative affect..but why chance it?
          Cognitive issues by my read one has to assure they are getting enough EPA DHA. Flaxseeds may not suffice if one is older and they have a diminished capacity to convert them from root sources such as flax.
          These docs to my experience talking fats they usually mean fats normally present in things not fats derived from things or put into things. The exception is those docs who focus on plaque in artieries.

          Nathial Pritikin, who started this thing on diet…… died of suicide related to terminal cancer his heart was seemingly fine. His focus was his early presentation of heart disease not cancer. So that was the source of his advocacy for low or no fat, not other things or conditions.

    2. Alessio

      This is an article by Ravnskov. He has been a long-time proponent of the idea that high cholesterol is either harmless or protective. In fact, he published his first book on this in 1991

      So, it is expected that he would dismiss the reverse causation arguments by pointing out that studies included in the review excluded people with a diagnosis of serious disease or who died within a year of the relevant study’s commencement. However, in people with Alzheimers or certain cancers, cholesterol begins declining at least 15 years before a formal diagnosis eg
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9229204

      The paper simply notes that in older people low LDL cholesterol is a predictor or early mortality and then argues that this is inconsistent with the mainstream concusion that high cholesterol is causally related to atherosclerosis. This is incorrect. For example, the studies don’t distinguish between people who have stable low cholesterol and those who have low cholesterol because their cholesterol has been steadily declining Most people in wealthy advanced countries have relatively high cholesterol. Very few have low cholesterol because of healthy lifestyles or because of genetic reasons. Why then do older people in wealthy countries have low cholesterol?

      It is well known that many diseases and injuries cause cholesterol to decline. Alzheimers and cancer have already been mentioned but liver diseases, chronic alcoholism and chronic infections also do this (so do short term infections for that matter, heart attacks, surgery, sepsis etc). Further, older oeople as well as being sicker and frailer on average than younger people, often have poor appetites and diet. The resulting) Weight loss and malnutrition also cause cholesterol to decline and these are more common in older people also.

      None of these things are effectivly addressed in Ravnskov’s paper. I don’t have time to do a detailed critique of the paper but I would point out that the paper (like all the cholesterol denialists’ arguments) is based purely on observational studies. it ignores the findings from experimental trials, other observational studies in younger heathier populations, genetic studies and known mechanisms of cholesterol action on the cardiovascular system (then there is the link with increased Alzheimers and cancer risk but let’s not complicate matters).

      Dr Greger did a video a while ago on how we know that high LDL cholesterol is a risk factor for cardiovascular disease
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-do-we-know-that-cholesterol-causes-heart-disease/

      Last year the European Atherosclerosis Society issued a formal consensus statement reviewing the evidence on high LDL cholesterol and atherosclerosis. It is well worth reading but here is the abstract

      “Aims
      To appraise the clinical and genetic evidence that low-density lipoproteins (LDLs) cause atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease (ASCVD).

      Methods and results
      We assessed whether the association between LDL and ASCVD fulfils the criteria for causality by evaluating the totality of evidence from genetic studies, prospective epidemiologic cohort studies, Mendelian randomization studies, and randomized trials of LDL-lowering therapies. In clinical studies, plasma LDL burden is usually estimated by determination of plasma LDL cholesterol level (LDL-C). Rare genetic mutations that cause reduced LDL receptor function lead to markedly higher LDL-C and a dose-dependent increase in the risk of ASCVD, whereas rare variants leading to lower LDL-C are associated with a correspondingly lower risk of ASCVD. Separate meta-analyses of over 200 prospective cohort studies, Mendelian randomization studies, and randomized trials including more than 2 million participants with over 20 million person-years of follow-up and over 150 000 cardiovascular events demonstrate a remarkably consistent dose-dependent log-linear association between the absolute magnitude of exposure of the vasculature to LDL-C and the risk of ASCVD; and this effect appears to increase with increasing duration of exposure to LDL-C. Both the naturally randomized genetic studies and the randomized intervention trials consistently demonstrate that any mechanism of lowering plasma LDL particle concentration should reduce the risk of ASCVD events proportional to the absolute reduction in LDL-C and the cumulative duration of exposure to lower LDL-C, provided that the achieved reduction in LDL-C is concordant with the reduction in LDL particle number and that there are no competing deleterious off-target effects.

      Conclusion
      Consistent evidence from numerous and multiple different types of clinical and genetic studies unequivocally establishes that LDL causes ASCVD.’
      https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/38/32/2459/3745109

  18. This is a bit off topic, but I stopped taking my b12 because it made me very hungry and I got excess saliva (too much to be able to use my mouth guard at night)

    Is having soy milk everyday enough? I drink this one http://www.clover.co.za/product-view/621/good-hope-ma-milk-alternative (I live in South Africa and this is the only one I’ve found with added b12)
    It says it has 0.48 mcg per 100ml and 1.2 mcg per 250ml of b12.
    I also have a lot of nutritional yeast.

    If anyone has any advice I would really appreciate it :)

    1. You can determine if you are getting enough B12 by googling the RDA requirement for B12. Then google sources for B12 and figure it out. You can read the package on your yeast to see what the B12 content is.

      1. Thanks for the reply Ruth :) I did do this, however I noticed people saying your body doesn’t absorb all of the b12 you take in, which is why the pills are really high.
        Guess most people go for more since they don’t get side effects but since I do I would like to know the minimum safe amount. I can’t seem to find a good answer when searching for it, some people are saying you need 250 mcg daily, although the body absorbs only about 2 (or something) but even my 100 mcg pills seem too high. Finding it all a bit confusing.

        1. Hi Minette,

          Dr. Greger has a video on B12 recommended daily amounts, but I don’t know how to answer you without knowing whether the soy milk is supplemented with cyano or methyl version.

          Find that out and go to Dr. Greger’s video.

            1. I clicked on one of the links on his B12 blog and it led to a link where absorption from fortified food sources are explained and it said that from fortified milks: 65% absorption.

                1. M just to add to the excellent comments provided….B-12 if one has a deficiency may be a bit of a problem to bring oneself up to the necessary level. Hence docs proscribe shots which contain a large amount when a overt deficiency is found.

                  For most this is not a problem and getting smaller amounts on a regular basis if vegan is recommended.
                  It stays in the body for a while so one can take one tablet once a week rather than every day if one does not have a overt deficiency.
                  Maybe 1000mcg once a week cyano form. Most of the studies were done on the cyano form.
                  I am guessing you are taking your supplements daily.

        2. Minette

          Absortion of B12 is believed to be much higher from supplements and fortified foods – especially in older people (although this isnt relevant to you). However, people with pernicious anaemia will require B12 shots.

          “Approximately 56% of a 1 mcg oral dose of vitamin B12 is absorbed, but absorption decreases drastically when the capacity of intrinsic factor is exceeded (at 1–2 mcg of vitamin B12) [8].”
          https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/

          The US National Institute of Health advises that people need 2.4 microgrammes daily. There are no known harmful effects from higher B12 consumption, however.

          1. Thanks for the reply Tom :) I have nothing against taking a supplement I know it’s safe. The reason I ask is because the supplement makes me extremely hungry and gives me excess saliva. It started interfering with my work because I was making food and eating the whole day :(

            1. Hi Minette

              I usually take a daily vegetarian wholefood multivitamin (although Dr Greger does not advise multivitamin use). The one I am currently using is the Megafood one daily which I buy online from the US. It contains 15 mcg of B12 per tablet.

              You might want to see if taking B12 in a multivitamin or in a fortified food causes similar problems to taking a solely B12 supplwment. it may be considerably easier on your system – especially since 15mcg is a lot less than the 100 mcg B12 tablets you mentioned earlier

    2. Hi,

      Unfortunately it’s not enough. You should be taking 25 mcg per day at least or 2000 mcg per week.

      Why don’t you change the brand? It may help

      Yared, Health Support Volunteer

      1. Thanks for the reply :) so the fortified soy milk I have isn’t enough? I have about 1/2 cup in the morning, and a 1/4 cup 3 times throughout the day. It says on the box one serving is 50% of the daily requirement.

    1. Thanks Deb :) For some reason I can’t seem to reply to your comment, but from the video it seems I’m getting more than enough just from the plant milk I have a few times a day. Feeling much better now.

  19. Hi, thank you for your awesome service to public health.
    I am very concerned about eating flaxseed in my daily dozen. I have had a hysterectomy because of utirine fibroids but the doctor said that there were also tumors with the fibroids that could have turned cancerous. For this reason even though I have my uterus removed I am in fear of something going wrong in that area.I am also obese with a big belly fat filling the space where the fibroids once were. Should I not only stay away from soy but away from flaxseed, hemp etc ? Should I be concerned about phytoestrogens in general and what should I do if I am concerned?
    Thank you

  20. Hello-

    Most studies find that the likelihood of getting uterine fibroids is reduced by the lignans in flaxseed, and they are also associated with a decrease in size of fibroids. Flaxseed is associated with lower, not increased, risk of uterine cancer. So, it’s very reasonable to include about a teaspoon of flax daily in your diet.

    Best, Dr Anderson, Health Support Volunteer

  21. Hello Lale! Thanks a lot for that interesting question.

    You wouldn’t need to stay away from soy, flaz or other soy products. Reasearch hasn’t found any risk or association between the consumption of these type of foods and increase risk of tumors.

    New Directions in the Epidemiology of Uterine Fibroids
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5330647/

    “Dietary factors affect malignant tumor development, but dietary factors have only begun to be examined in relation to fibroids. Data from a subset of participants in TULEP were used to examine soy effects. Because soy tends to have anti-estrogenic effects when endogenous estrogens are high (premenopausal women), soy intake might reduce fibroid risk. Urinary isoflavones and lignans were measured as biomarkers of soy intake. The study showed no association with isoflavone. Nor was soy intake (based on food frequency data) associated with fibroids in a cross-sectional study in Japan, where intake tends to be higher than in United States. Lignans were inversely related to fibroid prevalence in TULEP. Lignans are found in many fruits and vegetables so the lignan association is consistent with the earlier Italian study that reported protective effects of high fruit and vegetable intake”

    So, consumption of these food can be part of a healthy diet. However, if you’re obese you should probably focus on that, as obesity is a mayor risk factor for many illnesses

    Hope that helps! :)

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