What Are the Best Foods?

What Are the Best Foods?
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A review of reviews on the health effects of animal foods versus plant foods.

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Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

Instead of just looking at individual studies, or individual reviews of studies, what if you looked at a review of reviews? In my last video, I covered the beverages, with the majority of reviews that found some effects either way…finding at least some benefits to tea, coffee, wine, and milk––but not to sweetened beverages, such as soda. As I explored in depth, this approach isn’t perfect. It doesn’t take into account things like conflicts of interest, such as industry funding of studies, but can offer an interesting bird’s-eye view on what’s out there in the medical literature. What did the data show for food groups?

You’ll note the first thing the authors did was split it up into plant-based foods and animal-based foods. For the broadest takeaway, we can look at the totals. The vast majority of studies on whole plant foods show either protective or, at the very least, neutral effects, whereas most reviews of animal-based foods identified deleterious health effects or, at best, neutral effects.

Let’s break these down, though. The plant foods consistently rate uniformly well, reflecting the total, but the animal foods vary considerably. As you can see, if it wasn’t for dairy and fish, the animal foods total would swing almost entirely neutral or negative.

I talked about the effects of dairy industry funding in my last video, as well as substitution effects. Those who drink milk may be less likely to drink soda, a beverage even more universally condemned. So, the protective effects may be relative, arising not necessarily from what they’re consuming, but rather from what they’re avoiding. This may best explain the fish findings. After all, the prototypical choice is between chicken and fish, not chicken and chickpeas.

And, not a single review found a single protective effect of poultry consumption. Even the soda industry could come up with 14% protective effects, but despite all the funding from the National Chicken Council, and the American Egg Board, chicken and eggs got big fat goose eggs.

Also, like the calcium in dairy, there are healthful components of fish: the long-chain omega-3 fatty acids. Not for heart health. In the most extensive systematic assessment of effects of omega-3 fats on cardiovascular health to date, increasing the fish oil fats had little or no effect on cardiovascular health. In fact, if anything, it was the plant-based omega-3s found in flaxseeds and walnuts that was protective. But the long-chain omega-3s are important for brain health. Thankfully, just like there are best-of-both-worlds non-dairy sources of calcium, there are pollutant-free sources of the long chain omega-3s, EPA and DHA, as well.

The bottom line is that when it comes to diet-related diseases such as obesity, type 2 diabetes, mental health, bone health, cardiovascular disease, and cancers, even if you lump all the animal foods together, and ignore any industry funding effects, and just take the existing body of evidence at face value, nine out of ten study compilations show that whole plant foods are, in the very least, not bad, whereas about eight out of ten of the reviews on animal products show them to be not good.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Video production by Glass Entertainment

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

Below is an approximation of this video’s audio content. To see any graphs, charts, graphics, images, and quotes to which Dr. Greger may be referring, watch the above video.

Instead of just looking at individual studies, or individual reviews of studies, what if you looked at a review of reviews? In my last video, I covered the beverages, with the majority of reviews that found some effects either way…finding at least some benefits to tea, coffee, wine, and milk––but not to sweetened beverages, such as soda. As I explored in depth, this approach isn’t perfect. It doesn’t take into account things like conflicts of interest, such as industry funding of studies, but can offer an interesting bird’s-eye view on what’s out there in the medical literature. What did the data show for food groups?

You’ll note the first thing the authors did was split it up into plant-based foods and animal-based foods. For the broadest takeaway, we can look at the totals. The vast majority of studies on whole plant foods show either protective or, at the very least, neutral effects, whereas most reviews of animal-based foods identified deleterious health effects or, at best, neutral effects.

Let’s break these down, though. The plant foods consistently rate uniformly well, reflecting the total, but the animal foods vary considerably. As you can see, if it wasn’t for dairy and fish, the animal foods total would swing almost entirely neutral or negative.

I talked about the effects of dairy industry funding in my last video, as well as substitution effects. Those who drink milk may be less likely to drink soda, a beverage even more universally condemned. So, the protective effects may be relative, arising not necessarily from what they’re consuming, but rather from what they’re avoiding. This may best explain the fish findings. After all, the prototypical choice is between chicken and fish, not chicken and chickpeas.

And, not a single review found a single protective effect of poultry consumption. Even the soda industry could come up with 14% protective effects, but despite all the funding from the National Chicken Council, and the American Egg Board, chicken and eggs got big fat goose eggs.

Also, like the calcium in dairy, there are healthful components of fish: the long-chain omega-3 fatty acids. Not for heart health. In the most extensive systematic assessment of effects of omega-3 fats on cardiovascular health to date, increasing the fish oil fats had little or no effect on cardiovascular health. In fact, if anything, it was the plant-based omega-3s found in flaxseeds and walnuts that was protective. But the long-chain omega-3s are important for brain health. Thankfully, just like there are best-of-both-worlds non-dairy sources of calcium, there are pollutant-free sources of the long chain omega-3s, EPA and DHA, as well.

The bottom line is that when it comes to diet-related diseases such as obesity, type 2 diabetes, mental health, bone health, cardiovascular disease, and cancers, even if you lump all the animal foods together, and ignore any industry funding effects, and just take the existing body of evidence at face value, nine out of ten study compilations show that whole plant foods are, in the very least, not bad, whereas about eight out of ten of the reviews on animal products show them to be not good.

Please consider volunteering to help out on the site.

Video production by Glass Entertainment

Motion graphics by Avocado Video

121 responses to “What Are the Best Foods?

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  1. And yet the poultry and egg business is the nastiest indoor meat-cropping of all. As the 14-year old pandemic video explains could likely be the root of potential widespread outbreak of disease from their waste products and horrific conditions–when crossed with quite natural disasters such as flooding or a tornado. These things happens here in the South of the US where Tyson barns dot the rural countryside and foul the air for miles downwind.

    I used to eat those birds, and got my eggs from local open-pen farms because they looked and tasted better. I won’t touch either one now. Change is good. I don’t miss that stuff. I’m thrilled I survived my younger days-amazed even sometimes, given the events and my diet.

    1. Great story Wade. Hindsight would be so much handier if we had it up front.

      I grew up on a farm. We raised cows, pigs, chickens, and gathered our own eggs.

      All of my family who ate or still eats that way either died or has health problems related to their diets. I on the other hand went WFPB a while back and am the only person over 30 in my family with ideal body weight, excellent cholesterol levels, and none of the arteriosclerosis common in my family (we all were told it was genetic).

      This makes me wonder just how much of our health is genetic and how much is people eating the way they were taught to eat as children into adulthood.

      1. RB,
        I did farming and ranching as a youth, for seven years–tractor farming, ranching: cows, pigs, chickens and more. I look back on the large produce gardens we had, and think, wow. A take away observation I have is that, in general, farming people have done fairly well health wise, with few exceptions. My parent’s parents were farmers and they lived longer than my parents. My dad lived to 78, and mom to 83. I am 60 and slowing down, and really wondering if I will make it to 80. Heck, if I get ten more good years, I will be pleased. Look at Dr. Colin Campbell and Dr. Calwell Esselstyn. They have lived healthy lives and they started out on dairy farms. How many obese hard working farmers have you seen? I eat WFPB because I think it is my best choice. There are lots of farmers though who will out live me.

        1. Dan C,

          I lived almost next door to a local organic produce farmer, who switched early on to organic farming, maybe in the 1970s (I’d have to do the math). His reason? Both his parents died of cancer in their 60s, and his conclusion was that it was probably due to all the chemicals they used on the farm. He lived into his 80s, but ultimately died of cancer; it might have been due to his early exposure to those same chemicals, since he farmed with his parents (it is a family farm). His son, who did not appear to work on the farm and had very poor dietary and exercise habits (he was quite overweight, as I recall), predeceased him.

          My point? Not all farmers were healthy. Nor all farm families.

          1. Dr. J.
            Point taken. Perhaps why my parents did not live as long as their parents is that both of my parents spent years smoking cigarettes–but they still lived long lives (78 & 83). But my Granny Hill chewed tobacco (hee, hee). I’ve spent 35 years as a house painter exposing myself to paint products. But I wore respirators and my body still works; some things not as well as they used to. I think there is a grey area when looking at environmental exposure and just getting older (ageing). Today I will go to work and climb ladders. Not bad for 60. But I miss not being able to run and the endorphin high that comes with it.

          2. Not to mention, Dr. J, in “How Not to Die” or as I refer to it often, the bible of nutritional science, Dr. Greger points out how farmers of “livestock” and those growing up on such a farm, are predisposed to certain diseases. Same with butchers and even their families. I forget which chapter but maybe it was the infectious disease chapter.

    2. Well, that was rushed and poorly edited–but there’s no way to fix it now. And yet–it’s huge business and meat eaters think of eggs and poultry as being “better” somehow that red flesh. The twisting of the American mind (and Western world) by industry is absolutely staggering.

      wp

  2. I need help.
    I am reading “Carnivore Code” by P. Saladino. I see his point in that he has recovered from his long illness by switching vegan diet to animal diet. Dr. Greger’s mother recovered by following the vegan diet.

    I am now totally confused. Who is right? Both right? Any guidance on these two excellent MDs/Researchers?

    1. Open your eyes. Look at the disgusting and abysmal health condition of the American public. 80% of the US population is overweight and 40% obese. What does the US population eat: animal products, meat, eggs, dairy, fast food, factory food, industrial processed food. So what do you think is a good or bad diet? Study after study has shown that the leading killers are preventable and reversible by switching to a WFPB diet. Read Dr. Greger’s book and “The Starch Solution” by Dr. John McDougall. It’s easy to sell a diet book telling people what they want to hear.

    2. Toshi M, Dr. Greger is right. The data is clear. The consumption of animal products is associated with all major disease from heart disease to diabetes to cancer to Alzheimer’s to infectious disease and more. I highly recommend you read “How Not To Die.” And in general, look to the evidence. That is what is so great about Dr. Greger’s books and website, it is all about the evidence… no anecdotes.

      1. And as Blair pointed out, the evidence is so overwhelming and clear that you don’t even have to read the published data, you can literally just look around you. Don’t let those with agendas confuse you about a very clear truth.

  3. I need help.
    I am reading “Carnivore Code” by P. Saladino. He recovered from long illness by switching vegan diet to animal meat diet. Dr. Greger’s mother was saved by following the vegan diet. Now, what should I eat?
    I am totally confused now.
    Thank you.

    1. Toshi,

      There are not studies showing the carnivore diet as saving peoples’ lives.

      There are also no Blue Zones where people live to advanced age that are carnivore populations.

      There are a lot of studies for Whole Food Plant-Based showing benefits and there are Whole Food Plant-Based Blue Zones.

      You are using the word “vegan” and vegan is not the right type of diet to look at. Whole Food Plant-Based is.

      .

    2. Relying on individual testimonials is difficult for this very reason. Also, some people smoke and drink and still live to 100. That doesn’t show that drinking and smoking are healthy.

      Health and mortality depend on a range of risk factors from genetics to diet, to exercise. to exposure to pollutants and toxins etc. So it is not always easy to identify the effects of single variables like diet.

      Nevertheless, looking at well designed studies gives us the best information that there is available. Stories and testimonials are good for selling things (that’s marketing 101) but they are not always reliable guides

      All-meat diets like the previously fashionable keto and paleo diets are all examples of low carb diets

      ‘This study prospectively examined the relationship between low carbohydrate diets, all-cause death, and deaths from coronary heart disease, cerebrovascular disease (including stroke), and cancer in a nationally representative sample of 24,825 participants of the US National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) during 1999 to 2010. Compared to participants with the highest carbohydrate consumption, those with the lowest intake had a 32% higher risk of all-cause death over an average 6.4-year follow-up. In addition, risks of death from coronary heart disease, cerebrovascular disease, and cancer were increased by 51%, 50%, and 35%, respectively.

      The results were confirmed in a meta-analysis of seven prospective cohort studies with 447,506 participants and an average follow-up 15.6 years, which found 15%, 13%, and 8% increased risks in total, cardiovascular, and cancer mortality with low (compared to high) carbohydrate diets.’
      https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180828085922.htm

      1. Dear Tom: Thank you for your email. You are the only one who answered.

        I have believed that vegetables and fruits are foundation of good health.
        Dr. Greger’s mother was saved by his approach. There are so many literature such as China Study to start with. Yet, all of these are statistical in nature, not causes as we know. It is certainly one way of unlocking mystery. But, the other way is to identify chemical/physical/molecular mechanisms to deduce the causes and effects.

        Dr. Paul Salino takes the latter and he suggests that most vegetables and fruits are poisoning our body (cause of inflammation), to my surprise. He studies this from molecular levels to prove it. It is similar in details (in approach) to Dr. Seyfried (“*Cancer as a metabolic diseases: on the origin, management and prevention of cancer*”).
        Dr. Saladino may be right or he may be missing something, but I cannot say definitely wrong either in his theory. It is counter-intuitive. So, I was hoping that Dr. Greger looks into his theory.

        The video below would help understand his recommendation, which is totally different from Dr. Greger’s or Mercola’s.

        https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/02/23/carnivore-code.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20200223Z1&et_cid=DM466555&et_rid=816356906

        Thank you.

  4. Whole Food animal based

    How does this apply to an all animal food diet? I gave up all plant foods to avoid anti-nutrients and anti-oxidants and plant toxins.
    I now eat all beef diet, uncooked so that the proteins aren’t denatured. All of my study was based on the heavily researched work of Paul Salodino and the carnivore diet which is based on evolutionary principles.
    Is whole animal foods superior to the toxic plant foods that most Americans eat?

    1. There aren’t studies that people are living longer as carnivores.

      There are studies that they are living longer as Whole Food Plant Based.

      I did go to PubMed and look and there wasn’t even one clinical study on carnivore diet.

      There was a theoretical discussion of insulin resistance, but people who eat Plant-Based have lower insulin resistance, and people who eat more animal products have MORE insulin resistance.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12668986

      After looking, what occurred to me is that they did reviews on reviews and there were ZERO beneficial studies and that would have saved me time looking it up.

      The carnivore diet is a theory with zero studies.

    2. Wookie, try to come back and tell us what the afterlife is like… sounds like you’re gonna get there before most of us. Can’t spirits type, or was that just in “Ghost?” great movie. Anyways, please watch Earthlings and read “How Not To Die.” If your post isn’t just a poor attempt at a joke, you’re being both incredibly stupid and incredibly immoral/unethical.

  5. I have been eating plant based For 15 years and I love dr. Greger and Nutritionfacts very much. I donate monthly, but I don’t like it when you get careless with the facts And with wordings, as in the very end of this video. Dr. Greger adds the neutral with the positive for the plants in order to say that 9 out of ten studies show positive or neutral effect, but for the animal foods, he adds the neutral with the negative to say that 8 out of 10 studies show animal foods to be not good. That’s not fair.

    I prefer when your reporting is 100% neutral and I don’t think that there is any need to cook the numbers.

      1. Yes, but he added the “not good” for the animal products and that included the neutral studies and it is just the way he combined.

    1. I can see where you are coming from but the arithmetic is correct. It’s not ‘cooked’. Plus he puts the detailed figures up there on the screen for everybody to see

      For plant based diets, 50% of references found a protective effect, 44% neutral and only 7% adverse.
      For animal food based diets, 23% of references found a protective effect, 50% neutral and 27% adverse.

      Therefore

      For plant based diets, 94% of references found a protective or neutral effect.
      For animal food diets, 73% of references found a protective or neutral effect

      and

      For plant based diets, 51% of references found a neutral or adverse effect
      For animal food diets, 77% of references found a neutral or adverse effect

      You are criticising the way he presents them but he certainly hasn’t cooked the numbers as such.
      Yes, he could have put all 4 totals up there and that’s a reasonable point. However I think he wanted to deliver a clear-cut conclusion to the video .

      1. You are completely correct in what you write, but the thing is – he didn’t say it like you wrote it. He said:

        For plants: 9 out of ten studies show positive or neutral effect

        For animals: 8 out of 10 studies show animal foods to be NOT GOOD.

        If he had said it the way you wrote it, I’d be fine with it.

          1. Marty P

            First, you are reading the numbers wrong… fruits were 57% protective, vegetables were 40% and fish was 44% so fruits were higher and fish was a mere 4 points higher than veggies.

            Second, and most importantly, as explained in detail in the previous video, these numbers do not actually equal the protective, neutral, and negative qualities and lack thereof of these foods. All you can say in certainty is that more funding has gone to the study of fish and also more corruption as the fish is a big industry and even bigger, I believe, is the fish oil industry. Meanwhile, plant foods struggle to get funding because there is no and will never be a multi-billion dollar kale industry and there is virtually no corruption involved because there is no big broccoli agenda. The most corruption I have seen in the study of plants has been when a company explicitly wanted to make a claim about their juice product or something.
            Meanwhile, if you actually look through the data, the evidence is overwhelmingly clear that fruits and vegetables each have some of the most incredibly protective qualities about them.

            Considering all the commercial interest and studies gone into fish and fish oil, I would be very surprised if the results didn’t read this way, personally.

        1. Thanks for the reply Olof

          I understand your argument but what Dr Greger said was also correct since neutral and adverse = not good.

          To recap, what he said was

          ‘The bottom line is that when it comes to diet-related diseases such as obesity, type 2 diabetes, mental health, bone health, cardiovascular disease, and cancers, even if you lump all the animal foods together, and ignore any industry funding effects, and just take the existing body of evidence at face value, nine out of ten study compilations show that whole plant foods are, in the very least, not bad, whereas about eight out of ten of the reviews on animal products show them to be not good.’

          Everything Greger said was factually/arithmetically correct so his summation didn’t cause any raised eyebrows on my part. I personally would have ignored the neutral studies and summed it up by saying the percentage of studies finding a protective effect was more than twice as high for plant foods than animal foods whereas the percentage of studies finding an adverse effect was almost four times higher for animal food diets than it was for plant food diets.

          However, it just seems to me that whichever way we slice it, the conclusion is pretty much the same. Perhaps Dr Greger could or should have sliced it another way but there’s certainly nothing wrong with his arithmetic.which is why I was uncomfortable with your statement that he had ‘cooked’ the numbers. Certainly, Dr Greger opted for the most powerful pro-plant diet way of summarising the data and you could say that was a selective summary of the facts. Since he also put the raw figures up there on the screen for everybody to see, though, I don’t consider it deliberately deceptive or misleading.

          1. You are correct, Mr. Fumblefingers. Technically, what he said is correct.

            I still think that he says it in a way that is designed to amplify the differences in a way that I think undermines Dr. Gregers credibility. Not with me, but with people who may be sceptical to this whole WFPB thing.

            1. Olof, my take on any of his tone was based on the sheer knowledge and understanding of the collective data and what the real science has to show us as already presented throughout this site and in his books. By now, it’s a no-brainer and most of us here are caught up on it all.

              1. Oh, absolutely! I’m all on board with this. I’m just worried that he harms his reputation as a neutral commenter on science with the people who are still not on board and who are constantly bombarded by different low carb peoples messages. I think it is worth a lot to totally insulate us against criticism for being unfair or biased by always being 100% neutral and transparent. The science is there and it is clear, so there is no need to overstate things

                1. I totally see your point, Olof and I completely agree. I just don’t really think it seemed that he didn’t stay neutral on this one to any significant degree, personally. But it’s true there are a confused public and then there’s also the avid want-to-believe-their-habits-are-good group who can be a very sensitive crowd. Maybe tweaking the wording at the end would have been better for that particular audience, I’m not sure, but it’s not a bad point.

    1. Deb, check out the low-cost ($500) easy to manufacture ventilator design from a volunteer team of engineers and physicians at MIT.

      https://news.mit.edu/2020/ventilator-covid-deployment-open-source-low-cost-0326

      “One of the most pressing shortages facing hospitals during the Covid-19 emergency is a lack of ventilators. These machines can keep patients breathing when they no longer can on their own, and they can cost around $30,000 each. Now, a rapidly assembled volunteer team of engineers, physicians, computer scientists, and others, centered at MIT, is working to implement a safe, inexpensive alternative for emergency use, which could be built quickly around the world.”

      1. Thanks, Michael.

        Yes there are a few companies who have designed simple ones. Dyson was one for the UK and there is a California company. I can’t remember their name.

        I have been also excitedly looking at the drug trials. I am definitely not a Big Pharma fan, but 2 people got off of ventilators in NY after using an HIV drug and that is pretty exciting.

        There are so many potential meds.

        https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/analysis/coronavirus-mers-cov-drugs/

        Yesterday, the USA moved into the top number of cases, but compared to the number of cases, we still have relatively fewer deaths and if they can get some of the meds working, we could have much better outcomes.

        1. England has a cheaper type of ventilator to make.

          https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oxvent-ventilator-coronavirus-covid-19-death-rate/

          Plus, they had articles that a stroke drug preventing blood clots could prevent the need for ventilators.

          https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-03-26/could-stroke-drug-help-covid-19-patients-avoid-ventilators

          And someone turned windscreen wiper motors into emergency ventilators.

          https://sifted.eu/articles/coronavirus-windscreen-ventilator/

          https://www.virgin.com/news/virgin-orbit-develop-and-design-mass-producible-ventilators-covid-19-patients

          https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/u-of-i-researchers-create-emergency-ventilator-prototype/

          I probably could keep going all night.

          I genuinely am passionate about creativity in problem-solving during times like this.

          1. There are 1.5 million N95’s with expired dates that are sitting in storage.

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/coronavirus-government-mask-stockpile/2020/03/26/89d729c8-6f5b-11ea-96a0-df4c5d9284af_story.html

            Former NBA star Stephon Marbury says he’s trying to help deliver 10 million N95 masks from China to New York City.because he lost a relative to it.

            https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stephon-marbury-face-masks-coronavirus-new-york-china-covid-19/

            I was reading that hospitals say that it is up to their doctors to keep the masks clean. I wonder if they have UV disinfectant things like the WABI Baby? I would never have been able to be a doctor or nurse.

            I think about the doctor who was crying on sports radio. I know that we aren’t being told things with the full impact of reality.

            I don’t like red tape and spin. I could never have been any of it.

              1. They sell an APP. They said that anybody who wants a ventilator can go to their website and get one now. It has been for people who want to bring their family members home.

                1. I put it on Trump’s Twitter account. Unfortunately, that one is so cheap that people might come against it now. I hope not.

                  People can’t afford medical care. Bringing the price of something like a ventilator down and allowing people to take their loved ones home would be such a gift to poor people.

                  I know that it has to be scary to the people who make expensive medical equipment and run it.

                  I don’t think it will be embraced, but I will tell you that if my relatives or friends get this, I will be buying my own cell phone ventilator and I want to buy it now, but I know that hospitals might need it more than I do. I just think about my cousin and think I would buy one to protect him.

                    1. That one is the answer and the fact that there is a TED Talk already and it runs without oxygen and without medical people and it runs on an Android and is so much cheaper.

                      The moral question is why isn’t it already out here?

                      I know that it is where saving lives intersect with the cost of health care and people trying to support themselves and pay for their college loans.

                      The thing is, people are going bankrupt all the time and losing their houses from health care and people have known how to make a smartphone ventilator for a while now.

                      I don’t know if Trump reads his Twitter posts and I don’t know if it is already too late because Ford is putting out 50,000 and GM said 100,000 and MIT and the California company are putting out thousands, plus the people who have made them officially put their designs out on open source sharing.

                      But the cell phone one is the one they should be making.

                      I am the voice for the people who really can’t afford insurance or medical care and the voice of the people who will die without enough ventilators. The voice of parents future who will want to bring their children home but can’t afford a ventilator. The voice of loved ones who want to keep their loved one alive in a coma, but are going to be bullied to take them off of the ventilator. The voice of people who want to be at home.

  6. This is so confusing. Where are the studies with organic foods? Where are the vegetarian societies? Why are there no life-long vegetarians over the age of 70? LOOK IT UP.

    1. Wayne,

      Why don’t you bring your sources here?

      The fact that the Adventists have a large vegan community and they are among the longest-living people in the world, you need to bring your sources.

    2. “The best of the best were Adventist vegetarians who also had healthy lifestyles, such as being exercising nonsmokers. They live to 87 and nearly 90, on average.”

  7. I just finished the Joe Rogan show with Game Changer James vs Chris. In it, a milk study was brought up and there was no strong association found between milk and cancer. As a regular visitor to this website, I get the feeling that milk will lead to cancer.

    How would Dr Greger explain this study?

      1. Ever heard of misleading studies on grain products? No shortage of those either.

        I wonder how legumes did so well against vegetables not doing as well as we might expect. Something very weird there.

        I think what we have here is a lot of opinions called studies that are completely unsupported by clinical trials which are themselves historically misleading, corrupt and inaccurate. So despite the bird’s eye view, we still don’t have a view we can place any amount of trust in.

        1. John,

          Can you bring some back that you find misleading?

          I do know that one of the Blue Zones has been a community that ate a lot of grains and very few fruit or vegetables. Most of the other Blue Zones are the other way, but one group had longevity on a high quantity of grains.

    1. Curious

      You don’t tell us what the study was called or where to find it, so it’s difficult for anybody to comment.

      However, a problem with observational studies in general is confounding by uncontrolled (or sometimes overcontrolled) variables. This latest study (February 2020) attempted to control for soy consumption in the context of breast cancer risk. It finds:

      ‘Conclusions
      Higher intakes of dairy milk were associated with greater risk of breast cancer, when adjusted for soy intake. Current guidelines for dairy milk consumption could be viewed with some caution.’
      https://academic.oup.com/ije/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/ije/dyaa007/5743492?redirectedFrom=fulltext

      However, Dr Greger did do a video on this general topic of dairy and cancer a while ago
      https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dairy-and-cancer/

      I suspect that calories from dairy simply substitute for calories from meat, eggs and processed foods in most studies. I’m not surprised therefore that studies would show no association between dairy and cancer. In fact, relative to meat dairy might even be considered ‘protective’.

      To be honest though, when it comes to dairy consumption, I personally am much more worried about cardiovascular disease risk

      ‘What did predict risk of cardiovascular disease was “fat swapping.” When dairy fat was replaced with the same number of calories from vegetable fat or polyunsaturated fat, the risk of cardiovascular disease dropped by 10% and 24%, respectively. Furthermore, replacing the same number of calories from dairy fat with healthful carbohydrates from whole grains was associated with a 28% lower risk of cardiovascular disease.’

      https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2016/10/25/dairy-fat-cardiovascular-disease-risk/

    2. I saw that video. Chris was just spewing studies without even PROPERLY CHARACTERIZING THEM. If you use quotes, then the phrase in quotes must appear in the stated source. If you paraphrase, then it must be clear that you are making the assertion. To do otherwise has the obvious potential to greatly damage academic pursuit. In academia, you can be thrown out of university for doing what Chris did. He paraphrased incorrectly what a study asserted while using quotes.This is called misattribution. Plagiarism is just one form of misattribution. They throw you out of school because misattribution just as Chris did it creates a situation where a bad, lazy or irresponsible actor can place all the burden upon the good, honest, and responsible actor. Just as you are doing here. The solution is not to get worn down entertaining the lack of work performed by the bad actor. The solution is to insist the bad actor adhere to certain obvious required behaviors. Here is an example:

      Curious, how the heck can anyone address a study you do not cite and you do not trouble to specifically and properly characterize? It is YOUR responsibility to cite the study as well as reasonably and honestly explain the findings in order to reasonably ask for opinions of others about this heretofore supposed study. Also Chris Kessler was caught red handed placing his own assertion in quotes trying to pass it off as an assertion of an actual study. You must find a credible source instead of insulting the people you are supposedly asking for help. Everything from Kessler is tainted as he was exposed as a bad actor and he didn’t even show embarrassment.

      See how that works.

      OK back to reality. You are the fourth carnivore troll to appear here “asking questions” without really asking but rather trying to direct people away from this site. I mean really, you ask about a study but don’t cite the study. That’s simply not credible.

      1. Jack, ty for your comments. I have seen people commit similar errors in NF forums frequently. Because I am familiar with the writing styles of rebular posters, itt isn’t difficult to pick out, but newbies are sure to be confused by it.

        Some posters fail not only to post links to the studies they reference but also fail to distinguish between conclusions the study authors reached and the conclusions they , themselves, reached upon reading the study. Sometimes studies are thrown into a comment without the poster having read it and realising that the study does not support their discussion points.

        The thing that I find distressing is when posters have cut and paste whole sections of studies (!) without using quotation marks, or without pasting the link from the study it was extracted from, and in fact allowing people to assume it was their words. Unfortunately the lack of monitoring in this forum means that credibility is generally lacking and newbies should be warned accordingly. Just my opinion.

        1. * I should actually add that I think sometimes people try to participate in lively discussions while using a phone or tablet etc so that could be part of the problem in failing to follow form.

    1. Lisa,

      That is an interesting topic.

      This coronavirus has caused people to switch their food behaviors and now most people are eating at home by necessity.

      There are studies that eating at home is healthier but you may have found an exception.

      I just had a food distribution changes in the USA video playing.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrmYbsJ_-80

      1. Thank you! I do hope he will make a video to warn others of the potential dangers of gas stove fumes. COPD leads to many comorbidities I was unaware of. I will review the videos very carefully.

        1. Lisa H,

          I’ve articles about the indoor pollution caused by gas stoves. If I can find one, I’ll post a link.

          Meanwhile, I’ve been switching to more electric cooking. I know I post too many times that I love my Instant Pot — an electric pressure cooker, and there are many different brands. It greatly improved my diet: I can cook dry beans, whole grains come out perfectly (eg, quinoa and polenta), veggies are easy, lots of wonderful recipes for soups and stews and chilis and other types of main dishes and more. Electric pressure cookers are also more energy efficient, and easier, than stove-top cooking.

          I also have a little electric grill, and a waffle maker, and an electric kettle — with temperature control. But what I’d really like is to get rid of my gas cook top and replace it with maybe 2 induction burners, which are apparently more energy efficient, safer, and with more precise temperature control (or so I’ve read). A friend just replaced her gas stove with an induction range, after her older husband absent-mindedly left food on the burner a few times, with nearly seriously bad results.

          So there are alternatives to gas stove cooking. Good luck!

            1. Lisa H,

              Congratulations on your new IP! And Happy Birthday! You’re starting a whole new life! (OK, perhaps I am a bit fanatic…)

              Two pressure cooking cookbooks that I really like are “The New Fast Food” and “Vegan Under Pressure,” both by Jill Nussinow, an RD who has been teaching whole plant food eating for about 30 years. She is also a good cook! The books contain general information about pressure cooking, cooking charts for whole grains, rice, beans, and veggies (how much water to add, what pressure and for how long, what release), and lots of really good recipes! Not complicated, and mostly made with easily available ingredients. They changed my life, too.

              Today I used my IP 4 times: to make steel cut oats for breakfast (I save the left-overs to eat all week); to steam broccoli for lunch; to air fry marinated tofu (I bought an air fryer lid for my IP); and to cook rice for a stir fry (which included the air-fried tofu). If I had the storage room, I would buy a second IP. Tomorrow I plan to cook beans for breakfasts (I store batches in the freezer) and to make “baked” beans (really cooked in the IP) for dinner. I also incubate soy yogurt in it.

              Have fun!

              1. Thank you, Dr. J! It was my 62th birthday. Dr. Greger got me to try vegan 18 months ago and after three weeks, decades of severe chronic back pain went away. I’m talking steroid shots, steroid pills, living on Advil/Tylenol combos, all-day TENS devices stinging me to get through the day, useless physical therapy, missing work and vacation trips. Just gone – poof. Hoping this respiratory thing will go away, too, I’m going to focus on antioxidants and no more gas cooking! I’ll look at those books and set up my IP today and start practicing. Thank you guys for the great work you do!

  8. Since we can count on none of the studies being based on clinical trials and none of the studies being based on a sound understanding of how food passes through the intestinal wall and into the blood and lymph, the best we can really say here is that a plant based diet seems better than an animal based diet.

    Another reason I say that is because most if not all of these studies were conducted without excluding grain, dairy sugar, caffeine or alcohol in the complete and utter absence of constipation. No food study conducted using study subjects who don’t have perfectly clean colons from end to end can be considered an unflawed study. So we can count on every study referenced in the bird’s eye study to be flawed in a major way. Except on very broad terms, they are all useless.

  9. Another aspect of this look at food studies is the prevailing notion that among doctors and food scientists, food of any type is considered top be a neutral factor where disease, and recovery are concerned despite a wealth of information that clearly shows how harmful processed foods can be – that is grain, dairy, sugar, caffeine and meat.

    In that sort of arena, how can any of the studies be considered useful in any specific sense. Not possible. All of our knowledge of food is biased and therefore tainted. It’s hard to imagine that despite our higher order of brain power, we have consistently ignored the very stuff we use to keep us alive and instead, spent centuries beating around this bush hoping it will go away. It cannot because we still have to eat and those who avoid processed foods are consistently healthier than those who don’t.

    1. Pretty much every health authority around the globe recommends consumption of whole grains because their consumption is associated with better health and longer life.

    2. Whole grain is not a processed food. Whole grain is a whole food. I eat oat groats so I am eating a whole food. Your hand wavy false assertions about the uselessness of studies are complete baloney. If not, then enter academia and dazzle everyone with your brilliant modification to the fundamentals of analysis. Until then you are just the fifth carnivore whacko to leave nonsense here.

  10. If whole tablespoons of flax seeds is crushed in mouth by chewing very, very well and all seeds are crushed and mixed with saliva and cyanide is released directly in mouth. Is more cyanide ingested than eating grounded?
    I am thinking that cyanide is reduced by pre-grinding and If you
    chew whole tablespoons like that you ingest more cyanide?

    I have had some neurological/photo-phobia symptoms, mostly one sided that has shown up frequently. It has gotten better/disappeared but flares up sometimes. I have continued to eat them like this and I need to know if I am eating them in a more risky way. Maybe there is less cyanide in this batch? 2-3 tablespoons and I eat one meal a day.

    1. I want to add that I have consumed flax for 3-years and thought of other causes.

      Tick-bite a few month before I started consuming flax. I had some confusion/memory symptoms a short time after the tick bite.

      Caused by B-12 supplements or deficiency

      High blood sugar but have never measured.

      I had much worse symptoms before about 1-year ago. Over the last year it has been a lot less frequent. I do feel something on my right side often but it can be something else and I am not photo-phobic as frequent now. Maybe it is my gallbladder causing some inflammation around the ears.
      I usually don’t go the the doctor.

      Maybe it is not the flax but can someone please answer if it is more risky eating flax like I do?

    2. The NIH advises

      ‘Don’t eat raw or unripe flaxseeds, which may contain potentially toxic compounds.’
      https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/flaxseed-and-flaxseed-oil

      Apparently also, our ability to detoxify cyanide is related to our consumption of amino acids

      The toxicity of flaxseed cyanogenic glycosides is likely to be rare except in cases where flaxseed fractions are consumed in relatively large amounts in low protein diets.’
      https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924224414000697

      Perhaps your diet is low in protein?

  11. I love my Instapots, I use one regularly for making soy yogurt, one acidophilous capsule in two litres of soymilk overnight, thick and creamy. The only vegan in my family, I will may outlive them all but they laugh at me despite their pills. Our economy does not support human health, no money in healthy people, no market. Especially here in Canada. I also have switched to chia from flax, adding a dash of magnesium as I have read that chia binds with magnesium and takes it out.

    1. Paul in Kelowna,

      Your comment “no money in healthy people” reminds me of a cartoon I saw a bit ago:

      The first day of med school, a professor is standing next to a blackboard, pointing to the message written on it in caps: “A PATIENT CURED IS A CUSTOMER LOST.”

      How true, how sadly true.

    1. He said that doctors and nurses are being forced to work even if they test positive and they are working at least 100 hours per week and that they are working outside of their specialties.

      1. They are sending people home until they get worse enough to come back in to be on ventilators.

        Honestly, we need the stupid Android ventilators yesterday.

      1. Tom,

        Yes, and that is mildly comforting.

        But I know firsthand how independent Americans are, in particular.

        I have relatives who have been talking about herd immunity and the thing is something like 35 or 37 doctors died in Italy.

        The American doctors are working while they are contagious and they haven’t solved for masks or ventilators yet, even though there are simple concepts out there.

        So many people are “political” about it and just as many people are “money-oriented” about it and then, there are a few sweet people sewing masks.

        But there isn’t a bigger discussion if they could just UV sanitize the masks for 30 minutes or something that stops this from becoming hundreds of medical people dying.

        And I realize that it is the whole world, but some countries already were self-quarantined or quarantined and then there are countries like the USA where people are fleeing NY and heading to their vacation homes in Florida and other states.

        We are still out of toilet paper in the grocery stores and Amazon workers are striking tomorrow.

        I am not saying all of this to be negative or to generate panic.

        It is just the truth.

        Dr. Lisle thinks we will have a tenth of a percent of people die.

        But when I looked at the simulated models, if even 10% of the population “cheats” on social distancing, half the population in the models got it.

        We have more than 10% of the people still working and many of those employers are doing what the hospitals are doing and they are having people work while they are sick.

        I am not fearful about it, but I am seriously much more sober than most of the voices around me and I will only say that my father took it seriously for the first time today and that was because of how many people from NY showed up.

        1. I think the fear is based on mortality estimates. Influenza fatalities (via pneumonia mainly) are thought to be about 0.1% of all cases. Covid mortqlity estimates are or were about 1%. That is 100 times higher.

          There were about 50,000 deaths in the US in 2017.from pneumonia. Multiply that by 100 and you get an estimate of 5 million deaths.
          https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/pneumonia.htm

          Not all pneumonia deaths resulted from flu and not all flu deaths were from pneumonia but the above is a reasonable working estimate (IMHO) At least it gives an idea of the potential scale of the problem.

          The estimate could even be higher if we factor in that there are widely promoted influenza and pneumonia vaccines which offer some protection (but which presumably don’t offer protection against covid 19)

          On the other hand, I’ve also seen it said that the covid 19 figure is just the death rate for officially diagnosed cases and therefore artificially inflated. There are, it is said, many many more cases where the symptoms are mild or non-existent which would bring the actual mortality rate from covid 19 down to very much lower levels. However, those people don’t seek medical advice or testing and consequently they don’t show up in official statistics.

          1. Gee my arithmetic is off. In my defence, I was echoing what one of the doctors Deb referred to in her YouTube links, said.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSJzPZCEW4I

            !% is 10 times higher (not 100) than 0.1% so we’re talking about half a million US deaths not 5 million. Pretty staggering even so and initial Chinese estimates of covid-19 mortality came in at 2% ….. which would one million US deaths.

              1. Barb,

                Yes, I have been wondering about that obesity factor since they had said that the USA had more hospitalizations of young people.

                One of the factors will be whether the convalescent plasma gets up and running and whether any of the antivirals are effective, but it sounds like they are going to not have staff to man the old school ventilators and they will run out of oxygen and meds for that type of ventilation.

                I feel like they have known that they could use certain things like convalescent plasma, but it doesn’t feel like things are well-organized at all and it frustrates me that there has been a ventilator that doesn’t require health care professionals or oxygen and we haven’t already been getting those in.

                https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/03/plasma-blood-covid-19-survivors/609007/

                I don’t expect Trump to know about the easy ventilators or any of these things. He is doing what the professionals say, but he is having ventilators that require oxygen and health care monitoring and there is no way ever – even in the future – there will be enough trained people to run them.

                There is a financial incentive to keep expensive medical equipment, but there is nobody who has contacted him and given him a quicker, simpler, cheaper way to do things.

                Doctors are being worked like interns and they are older and may genuinely die.

              2. Yes, i thought though that the Italian problem was concentrated in the North and that the North has very high rates of atmospheric pollution. One of the worst levels in Europe. China of course has also been famous for very high levels of air pollution.

                I’d think that respiratory and cardiovascular diseases would be widespread as a result. Add to that cocktail, the fact that Italy has the oldest population in Europe. Little surprise perhaps that Northern Italy has high death rates.

                i wonder if young people who vape also have higher risk? Vaping is allegedly associated with a high risk of lung damage

                Obesity (metabolic disease) is also a risk but there’s no quick fix for that. Moving to a low pollution area might be a possibility for some people and using air purifiers might be some help though. Hmmm – buying an air purifier now is not easy, not where I live anyway.

  12. Pu es yo creo que todo en exceso es malo mi abuela duro 90 años fue una mujer que le gusto la agricultura y las pesca y su alimentación fue de todo un poco ella pescaba y se alimentaba de estos pescados también le gustaba mucho los plátanos verdes, maduros ella cultivaba el maíz y hacía arepas de maíz , comía pollo , carne de cerdo, de res tenía una huerta casera donde había legumbres frijoles, lentejas, a diferencia que en sus tiempos pues todo era cultivado natural sin químicos los animales eran criados con las sobras de la casa digamos las gallinas las vacas con pastos los peces pues eran sacados del río y pues duró 90 años mi madre hoy dia tiene 85 y fue criada igual yo creo que nada hace daño de estos alimentos pero si fijarse si son orgánicos y no comerlos en exceso sino que hay que variar las comidas hacer ejercicios tomar mucha agua evitar el azúcar tomar té de ajo,jengibre en las mañanas muchas veces tu estómago es lleno de gases y no sabes por qué y el te de ajo y jengibre te ayudan a eliminar estos gases también es importante limpiar el estomago purgando hay que limpiarlo así como cuando nos bañamos todos los días debemos también debemos limpiar nuestro estómago.

  13. Just to add to your comments.. yes, I agree that in coming weeks/months different challenges may be added to the scenario. Having available ventilators is not entirely the answer either. The survival rate in coming off ventilation is not great as I understand it, and would require therapy for quite some time probably.

    Best plan that I can see is to not get sick… people have to be convinced that this is a very serious situation and be willing to applying extraordinary effort in protecting themselves and others.

    1. Barb,

      Yes, not getting sick is the most important thing.

      That being said, I had 4 people who I interact with who were exposed to COVID-19 at their essential job this week.

      The rapid result testing will be what helps the most because in each of those cases the test results took so long to come back that many people were exposed.

      Now, there will be some answer the same day.

      For people in the USA, Christopher J.L. Murray, the IHME director(global burden of disease) has put out some useful visual models to play with. You can look up your state and see how many ICU beds will be short and how many ventilators they believe they will need and things like that.

      https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections

      He is updating it daily based on deaths and new cases and we already have seen how quickly the curve has dropped and the numbers have stabilized in places like Washington.

      He thinks there will be closer to 83,000 deaths.

      I am hoping the antivirals and stroke meds and convalescent plasma and fear striking the heart of every American will cut those numbers by 10’s of thousands.

      They should have the coronavirus antibody test taken next to blood drive vehicles so that if they have the antibodies they can just walk in and give plasma.

      The government people have gone days without sleep trying to figure this out and I have done that before.

      Trump said that Mike Pence had gone 24 hours without sleep and headed into his next day.

      When my mother was dying, I had months like that.

  14. Love NutritionFacts.org! Thank you for keeping us informed.
    Now that I am off meat and dairy I can’t help wondering what should I feed my dog? I know this is off topic. Delete if you must.
    I am told that dogs need meat, bone, organs, to live a healthy life. But with all the dangerous additives and hormones are there any safe meats?
    Is there any research that isn’t funded by the big 3 pet food manufacturers that points to proper nutrition for our canines?
    Appreciate any resources.
    Thank you for providing the tools for us humans to live a healthy life.

    1. Chris.
      Sorry, I forgot to add this after God’s Way. Read in Genisis CH1: V29. God’s original diet for man.

  15. Yes Deb, won’t be long now til we hear of rapid-result testing being available, face masks and protective gear available, sanitizers, etc. I am so impressed on how people/companies are stepping up to the plate. It will all make a difference.

    Thanks for the link.. not sure about how you and others feel about it, but I will keep up the good habits I developed during this experience. am a little nervous about loosening of restrictions, and plan to keep pretty much to the same plan through the summer, regardless.

  16. Barb,

    Yes. It will be a long time before I change back if ever.

    I saw a new mask tonight. A woman who designs prosthetics designed.

    It is silicone around the edges and sticks to the face and the mask is hepa filter and that part can be changed out so it is just the hepa filter that needs replacing.

    Johns Hopkins will be trying it.

    There was also a new med concept. They talked about it being like a Venus fly trap for viruses whatever that means.

    The CDC said it wasn’t needed right now, but some politicians are trying to get it looked at. It is in animal trials now, but it is a brand new concept.

    (Though often brand new concepts aren’t new at all.)

    1. For what it is worth, there is some evidence that lysine and aspirin formulations can moderate the effects of corona viruses eg

      ‘we show that D, L-lysine acetylsalicylate + glycine sold as ” Asprin i.v. 500mg® ” (LASAG), which is an approved drug inter alia in the treatment of acute pain, migraine and fever, impairs propagation of different CoV including the highly-pathogenic MERS-CoV in vitro. We demonstrate that the LASAG-dependent impact on virus-induced NF-κB activity coincides with (i) reduced viral titres, (ii) decreased viral protein accumulation and viral RNA synthesis and (iii) impaired formation of viral replication transcription complexes.’
      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312115736_D_L-lysine_acetylsalicylate_glycine_Impairs_Coronavirus_Replication

      I use lysine on those rare occasions when I get cold sores. It appears to be very effective in inhibiting herpes simplex virus replication. I still have a few tablets left but aspirin is incredibly hard to find in the Philippines. The Aspirin Lysine combo LASAG isn’t available here. I don’t think it is sold in the US either but don’t quote me on that.

      DON’T self-medicate though without consulting your doctor first. Both aspirin and lysine can be dangerous for some people, while a personal safe dosage also needs to be identified even if we don’t have contraindications..
      https://www.drugs.com/aspirin.html
      https://www.drugs.com/mtm/lysine.html

      Ditto for zinc
      https://mcgill.ca/oss/article/health/can-zinc-lozenges-help-coronavirus-infections
      https://www.drugs.com/cdi/zinc.html

      1. Thanks, Tom,

        Yes, I looked at the lysine.

        It isn’t something I have been taking.

        As far as aspirin goes, I am self-medicating though only at certain times of the year based on increased risks.

        Dr Greger gave the risk versus benefit ratio a while back and I decided to not continually take it, but holidays, winter, stressful situations and pandemics seem good to me.

        When I read the statistics back then, I knew that I am the type of person who needs to hear the math and make up my own mind.

        1. I only take zinc during cold, flu, and pandemic season.

          And usually only when it is really near me.

          Several people around me had co-workers test positive this week.

          There is also a rash of people lying to try to get on unemployment.

    1. :-) Actually, I was planning to check in from the balcony from now on. That look on Dr. G’s face (above) looks mighty fierce….kinda scares me! He looks like a mean, tough hombre!

      Starting to read from the bottom of a thread up, I can usually tell whether you (Deb) post something or if it’s Fumbles. You both have your unique way of, um, relating. :-)

      This one is directed at Fumbles regarding his quote from Snopes:

      https://foodbabe.com/do-you-trust-snopes-you-wont-after-reading-how-they-work-with-monsanto-operatives/

      1. Thanks YR. If Foodbabe says that it be true eh?

        TBH I’ve always thought she was a sandwich or two short of a full picnic. On the other hand, big companies are not averse to attempting to manipulate public opinion so what she alleges is possible. However what Monsanto has to do with vitamin C escapes me and the story she tells is anyway more simply explained by occasional cock-ups than some slick conspiracy

  17. Hello

    I’d like to know your opinion/researches about
    taking vitamin c to prevent/cure corona
    as i heard from some natural doctors

    thanks

    1. There is no evidence that taking vitamin C supplements will prevent or treat corona virus infections despite assertions by some people. Those stories are fake news.
      https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/03/09/coronavirus-its-time-to-debunk-claims-that-vitamin-c-could-cure-it/

      There are some trials underway with intravenous vitamin C treatment but that is far different from popping vitamin C tablets. Even there, previous trials with intravenous vitamin C for influenza patients suffering similar complications to those in corona virus patients, such as acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), found no benefit

      ‘ Among patients with sepsis and ARDS, patients in the high-dose vitamin group did not show a better prognosis and other clinical outcomes.’
      https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04264533
      .
      These ‘natural doctors’ aren’t medical doctors in most cases. Andrew Saul, for example, one of the most vocal of these people and claims he has a doctorate (PhD) in naturopathy. In fact, he appears to have obtained it from the non-accredited diploma mill mail order program Greenwich University. People with mail order doctorates can make money presenting themselves as experts (that’s presumably why they buy these mail order ‘qualifications’) but their claims aren’t to be trusted. Their real expertise appears to be in marketing themselves to the public and sensation-hungry media.
      https://americanloons.blogspot.com/2019/06/2206-andrew-saul.html

  18. I do believe in a plant-based diet, but Sally Fallon’s book really got me confused about the role animal fats should have in an optimal diet… Hopefully someone can help me out? Thank you.

    1. “the role animal fats should have in an optimal diet” …Zero. That is the role. Animal fats should be completely eliminated for an optimal diet. Some might argue with the exception of DHA/EPA from fish, but you can easily obtain these from a WFPB diet either by letting your body do its magic naturally by eating plenty of ALA rich plant foods (though EPA/DHA is also found in sea vegetables and some land plants like purslane) or by taking a safe supplement from the source fish get it from in the firs place which is algae oil. But there isn’t that much overwhelming data on the importance of DHA/EPA supplementation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nne_fATFGfw

      I don’t know who Sally Fallon is, but anyone pretending there is a role animal fats should play in a human diet is not a person to learn from. And keep in mind anyone can write a book and books are easier to sell when it’s what people want to hear and the people want to hear their current habits, addiction, and familiar lifestyles are good.

    2. Natalia

      Natalia, as you know all too often people like you sincerely trying to learn more about healthy nutrition find themselves confused by contradictory claims that are not supported by research yet are quite convincing. Sally Fallon is spouting just such claims. Here is a review that might shed some light on how pseudoscience can twist research and make animal based nutrition seem like a good option- directly in contradiction to the preponderance of evidence pointing to the benefits of a whole food plant based approach.https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/sbm-weston-prices-appalling
      Follow the science, Natalia, not some new book designed to be confusing with misleading claims.

  19. In my personal opinion, the best sources of pollutant free long chain omega-3’s are the one’s our bodies make when we get plenty of the short chain from plants. Although I do enjoy sea vegetables and chlorella which I understand have some amounts. And I grow purslane which contains EPA, surprisingly considering it’s a land plant. That is my choice for myself. I think older people with poor diets or who recently switched to WFPB or even who just don’t eat enough whole plant foods could benefit from algae oil, probably though. Just sharing my personal thoughts on the subject.

    I’m not a fan of this broad spectrum view because there is so much crap out there. So I think people unfamiliar with the impurities along with inadequacies within the science world could get confused by it. Life for example, vegetables are obviously incredibly protective. But considering that, like Dr. Greger stressed, it’s basically hilarious they weren’t able to come up with a single protective outcome from “poultry” or eggs.

  20. I’m a plant-based food eater but in truth must ask if the other bads of the plant food world have been mixed into those pie charts since processed meats have been. For example, does the plant based pie chart include processed plant foods such as twinkies, vegan meats, cereals, candy, white bread, you know, fast foods which do not contain meats. Are they factored in as well or have they been factored in.
    Thanks!

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